WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore Podcast.

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Silvercore has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge

00:00:17.975 --> 00:00:22.800
necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years, and

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we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

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If you enjoy the positive and educational
content we provide, please let others

00:00:32.975 --> 00:00:37.460
know by sharing, commenting, and
following so that you can join in on

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everything that Silvercore stands for.

00:00:40.710 --> 00:00:43.350
If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

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Silvercore Club and community,
visit our website at Silvercore.ca.

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Alright.

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I already know that we're gonna be
in for amazing podcasts on this one.

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The difficulty with doing these podcasts
is sometimes our excitement gets ahead

00:01:00.780 --> 00:01:06.570
of us and we will start talking ahead
of time, and usually the typical thing

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I usually say is if I could only press
record the second a person comes in

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the studio and keep it recording.

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After we finish a podcast,
we're gonna get the most raw,

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the most honest conversation.

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This is one podcast that I don't think
that's gonna be the case in policing.

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People have heard the terms.

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10, 4, 10 codes used on the radio.

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Ten four.

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Affirmative.

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10.

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10 negative.

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10 20.

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What's your location?

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My favorite, 10 99.

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Let's have a coffee break.

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On coffee break.

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There's 10 33.

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10 33 officers in need of immediate
assistance Today I'm joined by the

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host of the hugely inspirational
and positive 10 33 podcast.

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Welcome to the Silvercore
podcast, Nathan Kapler

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Nathan Kapler: wow.

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Um, thank you Travis.

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Uh, an absolute honor to be here.

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Travis Bader: This is gonna
be an interesting one.

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So we're in June.

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June is Men's Mental Health Month.

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The 10 33 Podcast deals a lot with
mental health, primarily with mental

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health and ways to make people better.

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You come from a first responder
background, you bring that

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experience and what you've learned.

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You've had some difficulties and you are
brutally honest in how you share that

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in your podcast, which I find inspiring.

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Can you tell me about the 10 33
podcast, how it came about and why?

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Nathan Kapler: Oh, great question.

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Uh, years ago, obviously, when I
went to training for the R C M P,

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They did a fantastic job of training
us on how to deal with incredibly,

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uh, horrific scenes, um, situations
that just were completely surreal.

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Uh, they were ever evolving.

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How do we manage threats?

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How do we manage people?

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How do we manage these dynamic situations?

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And at the same time, they created this
culture that it was very much okay,

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and it should be recognized that when
you get into these, these situations,

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you need to also know a 10 code, 10 33.

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Hmm.

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You need to, at times be able to
ask for help because you might get

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involved in a shooting, you might
get involved in a situation where

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you know you're gonna lose your life.

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Hmm.

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And you need backup
and you might be alone.

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And the, the RCMP is notorious for this.

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A lot of their members work alone.

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Right.

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So they do a great job of training
you for these dynamic situations

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and preparing you for the field, and
also making sure that you are okay

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to ask for help in the line of duty.

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Mm-hmm.

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But what happened to me was when I got
home, that's when I fell apart mm-hmm.

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From all of this trauma.

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And I didn't know how to ask
for help outside of duty.

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So when I, later on down this road, this
journey that I've been on of learning

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how to, you know, better myself and
improve my mental health and improve my

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overall health, I knew I had to launch
this project and call it ten thirty

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three mm to make sure that we can all
ask for help outside of work as well.

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Because there's immense amounts of shame
and guilt, uh, in, in the society of men,

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but also as police officers
and first responders.

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We don't, we don't know how to ask
for help when we start to go down with

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this stuff, this mental health stuff.

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And it's so common.

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Travis Bader: It's like a badge of honor.

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I'm tough.

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This doesn't bother me, right?

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I don't want to be the weak one on
the team that's crying out saying

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I was affected negatively by the
situation or what I might be.

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If it's a physical injury, not a problem.

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It's self-evident, right?

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Oh, you broke your arm,
not a get a cast on it.

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Month later you're gonna be good and
might be a little tender for a bit.

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Right?

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The mental health thing.

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Not so self-evident.

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Nathan Kapler: No, not at all.

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Travis Bader: Not at all.

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What were some of the warning signs?

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Like we, we, I'm sure we're gonna
talk about where things went cuz you

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were very open about mental health
and addiction and recovery process

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and, and how you worked through this.

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What were the warning signs that maybe
weren't self-evident to yourself that you

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might be able to see in somebody else or
somebody might be able to see in themself?

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Nathan Kapler: That's
a really good question.

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I think, I think at the beginning
stage of my journey, I started to have

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awareness into some aspects of what
was happening to me when those changes

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initially happened, because I could
see myself still as a very healthy

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individual when I first got into policing.

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So the change of taking myself from
that very healthy level to now kind

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of starting to see certain things
happen where I didn't like it and I

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was starting to acknowledge, okay, uh,
I stopped dreaming very early on in

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my journey of being a police officer.

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So the mind just stopped having these
dreams, and I remember kind of having

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this feeling of about a year in and
going, why am I not dreaming anymore?

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Really it was, and it felt
like a very kind of, the body

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just felt very empty and void.

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And I remember thinking to myself,
okay, so I'm not having good dreams.

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I'm not having bad dreams.

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I'm just having no dreams at all.

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And that was kind of the first significant
step, I would say, to me kind of

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going, you know, cur with curiosity
and saying, okay, what's going on here?

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So I actually reached out to a
psychologist then back in about 2008

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in Whistler, and we started to kind
of explore, you know, what's going on.

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Uh, but again, I was still a
very young man and I couldn't

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piece a lot of this together.

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Back then, we still weren't e
we weren't even really talking

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about mental health openly either.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right.

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And there still really wasn't a focus
or an awareness to, you know, what

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does men's mental health look like?

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Or what does P T S D look like?

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I had no idea what PTSD t s looked like.

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So if I even had it at that time,
I wouldn't be able to, to say, Hey,

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this is what I'm going through.

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I didn't have the awareness
or the education to talk

00:07:07.335 --> 00:07:08.095
about the symptoms either.

00:07:09.045 --> 00:07:10.515
We barely had in, had internet back then.

00:07:10.515 --> 00:07:11.835
I was still using a flip phone.

00:07:11.835 --> 00:07:12.015
Right.

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Like I was still like, you know, T
nine M texting was still a thing.

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Right?

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Right.

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You didn't have access to
the things you, you have now.

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So I think at the time I was very
aware that those small changes that

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were happening were happening and they
caused me to have concern and curiosity.

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But as time went on with the symptoms
and as they grew, I actually stopped

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having the ability to be able to
pay attention to, okay, where am I?

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And it was this very slippery slope
of now my mental health is eroding

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and I'm no longer really able to check
in with myself to see where I'm at.

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Mm.

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If that makes sense.

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Mm-hmm.

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So, and that's kind of the
danger of mental health, right?

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Like, when you're healthy, you can
pick up on, okay, I'm not doing well

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here, here, here, you can make the
little adjustments, but if you don't

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really, you know, attack the root of the
issue, over time the body just starts

00:08:03.705 --> 00:08:05.775
to learn to adapt to this new state.

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Travis Bader: Well, how do you
find the root of that issue?

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And how do you know that there
is something actually going?

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Do you have to hit rock bottom?

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Like what's, at some point
you'd start realizing that

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things aren't clicking, right?

00:08:16.695 --> 00:08:19.544
Maybe memory recall isn't the
right, or maybe you're responding

00:08:19.544 --> 00:08:21.974
in ways that are just inappropriate.

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Nathan Kapler: I think for me, like
my, my journey at that time was I

00:08:26.294 --> 00:08:31.275
was, uh, I was, I left my family, uh,
I left my support structure, right?

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So I left those people that were
closely attached to who I was, my

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identity, uh, and I left Alberta and
I came out to BC and I was basically

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alone with a whole new bunch of people.

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So it becomes very easy to kind
of hide yourself now in this new

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environment and create a new version
of yourself, where now you're starting

00:08:47.925 --> 00:08:49.545
to go through some pain and suffering.

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From the job, but you're able to
also mask it because these people

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really don't know who you are either.

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Mm-hmm.

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So I didn't have the right support
structure in place so that they could

00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:05.415
give me that feedback, that real time
feedback of Nate, hey, you know, you

00:09:05.415 --> 00:09:08.236
seem a little bit more ha hypervigilant,
you've been working too much.

00:09:08.505 --> 00:09:09.645
Are you avoiding something?

00:09:09.645 --> 00:09:11.085
Are you taking your time off?

00:09:11.325 --> 00:09:12.645
You know, how are you sleeping?

00:09:12.645 --> 00:09:14.595
You know, what's going
on emotionally for you?

00:09:14.595 --> 00:09:18.645
I didn't have those kind of deep-rooted
people in my life that were heavily

00:09:18.645 --> 00:09:20.415
rooted in me and my success.

00:09:21.135 --> 00:09:27.375
So I think the answer to that is we've
gotta get better at, you know, if we're

00:09:27.375 --> 00:09:30.495
gonna do this mental health thing, we
definitely have to have an emphasis

00:09:30.495 --> 00:09:35.325
on community and connection, uh, and
conversation around, uh, other people.

00:09:35.325 --> 00:09:39.795
And they actually, the success to your
mental health actually exists in having

00:09:39.800 --> 00:09:43.095
those connections with others, right?

00:09:43.095 --> 00:09:44.475
Because we, what did we all go through?

00:09:44.955 --> 00:09:46.125
In in Covid, right.

00:09:46.125 --> 00:09:47.115
Social isolation.

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We all got a chance to pull back and hide.

00:09:49.275 --> 00:09:50.205
It's amazing

00:09:50.235 --> 00:09:54.015
Travis Bader: how much that last
couple years of social isolation

00:09:54.015 --> 00:09:57.705
has affected society and some people
don't even realize to what extent.

00:09:58.305 --> 00:10:01.095
No, I'm sure you've
probably heard of that.

00:10:01.095 --> 00:10:02.435
I think it was Harvard, Harvard study.

00:10:02.685 --> 00:10:08.265
The longest running study on uh,
I think it was the premise was

00:10:08.415 --> 00:10:10.065
happiness in a person's life.

00:10:10.065 --> 00:10:10.815
Have you heard this one?

00:10:11.535 --> 00:10:11.985
Go on.

00:10:12.195 --> 00:10:15.105
So I think it was out
of Harvard, 80 years.

00:10:15.165 --> 00:10:18.855
They go and they follow groups from
different backgrounds and different

00:10:18.855 --> 00:10:24.035
regions and they say, what's the
number one predictor of happiness

00:10:24.255 --> 00:10:32.085
in their life over the long term and
overwhelmingly strong social connections.

00:10:33.135 --> 00:10:33.795
And that was it.

00:10:33.975 --> 00:10:38.115
Strong social connections, having a good
friend network, having a good family

00:10:38.115 --> 00:10:42.735
network, having this set up in a way
that it's, uh, you can have those checks

00:10:42.735 --> 00:10:47.805
and balances and you have that level
of stability and that's gotta be rough.

00:10:47.835 --> 00:10:51.435
If you've left your friends and your
family and you go into a brand new

00:10:51.435 --> 00:10:56.055
place and you don't have anybody to
give you those, you've now got a new

00:10:56.060 --> 00:11:00.265
social network you're, you're creating,
but you're probably not showing them

00:11:00.555 --> 00:11:04.215
the true you, the five year old,
you the one that they grew up with.

00:11:04.215 --> 00:11:04.605
Right.

00:11:06.165 --> 00:11:09.435
Nathan Kapler: Our identity
is deeply rooted in others.

00:11:10.005 --> 00:11:14.265
And there was a point in my
journey where I saw kind of how.

00:11:16.125 --> 00:11:19.365
A specific event that happened
to me when I was in Mounty, how,

00:11:19.785 --> 00:11:23.475
uh, I did fear for my life and I
was swarmed as a police officer.

00:11:23.475 --> 00:11:25.485
And I, I actually thought
I was gonna die that night.

00:11:25.490 --> 00:11:27.645
And I thought my partner
might lose her life as well.

00:11:27.855 --> 00:11:28.155
Hmm.

00:11:28.755 --> 00:11:34.455
And I remember developing this complete
distrust for people and that drove me

00:11:34.455 --> 00:11:40.605
to a place of social isolation before we
entered Covid and also embraced social

00:11:40.605 --> 00:11:42.795
isolation to try and tame this pandemic.

00:11:43.245 --> 00:11:46.845
So even before that happened, like
you, you joke with cops and it's

00:11:46.845 --> 00:11:50.655
kind of a running joke, but you know,
before we, before we went into Covid,

00:11:50.655 --> 00:11:51.595
we were all like, Hey, perfect.

00:11:51.944 --> 00:11:53.915
We've been doing this social
isolation thing for years.

00:11:54.055 --> 00:11:55.545
We got this down pat.

00:11:55.545 --> 00:11:57.915
We will, we will gladly not see anyone.

00:11:57.975 --> 00:11:58.365
Mm.

00:11:58.605 --> 00:12:02.415
Because we go through these unique
experiences with people where we, we, we

00:12:02.415 --> 00:12:04.395
don't have that trust anymore with people.

00:12:04.400 --> 00:12:04.555
Mm-hmm.

00:12:04.640 --> 00:12:06.704
And we do start to tend
to socially isolate.

00:12:06.795 --> 00:12:08.385
And that's a very dangerous thing.

00:12:08.954 --> 00:12:10.125
Very, very dangerous thing.

00:12:10.125 --> 00:12:11.355
And I learned that firsthand.

00:12:11.474 --> 00:12:16.245
So the thing that has actually helped me
the most bring me back to, uh, a better

00:12:16.245 --> 00:12:20.385
place of mental health and more success
and just happiness again, and, and

00:12:20.390 --> 00:12:24.855
creating kind of a, a better world for
myself has been because I've been open

00:12:24.855 --> 00:12:29.324
to connecting back with people, sharing
my story, being vulnerable and authentic,

00:12:29.594 --> 00:12:31.755
and rooting my identity in others.

00:12:31.755 --> 00:12:32.834
And that's how you do this.

00:12:32.834 --> 00:12:34.964
Can you tell me about that
swarming what happened?

00:12:35.175 --> 00:12:35.865
Yeah, for sure.

00:12:36.435 --> 00:12:40.875
We were working a night shift, uh,
in Whistler, and I remember walking

00:12:40.875 --> 00:12:43.214
through the village that night,
and it was just a night where you

00:12:43.219 --> 00:12:44.555
could just feel it in the crowd.

00:12:44.555 --> 00:12:50.175
Something was off, like it just had
this omnis feeling and everybody

00:12:50.175 --> 00:12:53.265
seemed to be especially messed up
on drugs and alcohol that night.

00:12:53.270 --> 00:12:53.555
Mm-hmm.

00:12:53.865 --> 00:12:58.785
And we ended up getting a call that
I believe a few people were running

00:12:58.785 --> 00:13:01.954
around the village with a two by
four with nails in it hitting people.

00:13:02.055 --> 00:13:02.474
Mm-hmm.

00:13:03.405 --> 00:13:06.435
So basically now you have
a, a stabbing in progress.

00:13:07.064 --> 00:13:11.505
So a bunch of us rush out and we
eventually get to a place where

00:13:11.505 --> 00:13:15.885
there's a group of about maybe 50
people that are all stacked up.

00:13:15.890 --> 00:13:16.785
They're in tight.

00:13:17.084 --> 00:13:18.525
We can't tell what's going on.

00:13:18.525 --> 00:13:20.714
We can't tell if there's
a fight inside that group.

00:13:21.015 --> 00:13:26.204
We can't tell if someone's down, are they
giving, you know, uh, services to that

00:13:26.204 --> 00:13:27.824
person to help them with their health.

00:13:28.095 --> 00:13:31.275
We had no idea what was going on and.

00:13:31.965 --> 00:13:35.775
When I talked to my, the person I, I was
there with this other police officer.

00:13:35.865 --> 00:13:39.765
Um, we kind of have different
versions of how this transpired.

00:13:39.765 --> 00:13:41.955
So I try to be careful about
how I share the story, right?

00:13:42.105 --> 00:13:42.255
Mm-hmm.

00:13:42.345 --> 00:13:46.725
My perception was that, um, this
officer got a bit too close to the

00:13:46.725 --> 00:13:49.035
crowd and the crowd pulled her in.

00:13:49.040 --> 00:13:49.385
Mm-hmm.

00:13:50.165 --> 00:13:54.525
And I remember just
thinking, oh no, this is bad.

00:13:55.365 --> 00:13:59.445
And I knew if I didn't get in
there right away, that there was

00:13:59.445 --> 00:14:01.425
gonna be a massive issue to her.

00:14:01.635 --> 00:14:02.415
And I actually did.

00:14:02.420 --> 00:14:04.185
I feared for her safety for her life.

00:14:04.215 --> 00:14:04.335
Mm-hmm.

00:14:05.955 --> 00:14:10.185
So I knew I had no choice but to
go into that crowd to pull her out.

00:14:10.365 --> 00:14:10.605
Mm.

00:14:11.265 --> 00:14:15.495
And as I start to weave in through
people and I'm, I'm not even, you know,

00:14:15.495 --> 00:14:17.235
declaring anymore, Hey, it's the police.

00:14:17.235 --> 00:14:19.005
I'm just shoving people out of the way.

00:14:19.155 --> 00:14:19.425
Mm.

00:14:19.875 --> 00:14:22.695
Cuz they're not even responding
to, Hey, it's the police backup.

00:14:22.785 --> 00:14:26.115
They're just so gone from, you
know, substances and, and whatever.

00:14:26.715 --> 00:14:31.335
As I get close to the center,
my, my recollection of the event

00:14:31.335 --> 00:14:37.695
was that I saw my partner on the
ground getting kicked and stomped.

00:14:39.525 --> 00:14:44.145
And it was the saddest thing
I've ever seen in my life.

00:14:44.145 --> 00:14:46.395
Because you care for your,
your brothers and your sisters.

00:14:46.400 --> 00:14:46.855
Absolutely.

00:14:47.385 --> 00:14:52.125
And to see something happening
to them, my heart broke in that

00:14:52.125 --> 00:14:56.535
moment and I was so scared.

00:14:56.955 --> 00:14:58.275
Mm, so scared.

00:15:00.990 --> 00:15:03.300
For myself, yes, but also for her.

00:15:03.690 --> 00:15:09.510
And I knew that there was, there
was no time to have a motion

00:15:10.950 --> 00:15:12.090
that I had to take action.

00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:14.220
So I did just that.

00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:14.880
I picked her up.

00:15:16.650 --> 00:15:20.910
And at the time too, I re, I do remember
she, she had her hands over her head

00:15:20.910 --> 00:15:23.400
and she was trying to protect her head
as kicks were coming in and they were

00:15:23.400 --> 00:15:28.620
basically curb stomping her to a degree
or trying to, and picking her up.

00:15:28.950 --> 00:15:31.470
I just shouted, put your back to mine.

00:15:32.190 --> 00:15:33.120
I'm gonna get you outta here.

00:15:33.540 --> 00:15:36.210
I had no idea how, but I was
gonna get her outta there.

00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:41.580
So we talk a lot about, on my
podcast, we talk about fight or

00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:43.470
flight and the significance of it.

00:15:43.530 --> 00:15:48.360
Uh, and I hit, I would say probably
my most significant adrenaline

00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:49.830
dump I've ever had in my life.

00:15:49.980 --> 00:15:50.310
Hmm.

00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:54.510
Where the body just goes, okay,
now, now we're very worried.

00:15:55.380 --> 00:16:00.765
We're very scared and we've gotta switch
this on, and we've gotta jump as much

00:16:00.975 --> 00:16:04.725
dump as much adrenaline into the body
as possible to get you ready to respond.

00:16:06.255 --> 00:16:10.845
So as I'm, as I'm having this bodily
reaction of, you know, going through

00:16:10.845 --> 00:16:13.966
this trauma in the body's dumping
the adrenaline into the muscles and

00:16:14.085 --> 00:16:17.925
it's getting everything fired up and
you can feel it like it's electric.

00:16:18.045 --> 00:16:18.345
Hmm.

00:16:18.615 --> 00:16:18.915
Right.

00:16:18.920 --> 00:16:21.975
It's, it's like the body just
gets supercharged in that moment.

00:16:22.065 --> 00:16:24.315
And I'm thinking to myself,
do I pull my gun out?

00:16:24.315 --> 00:16:25.815
Do I pull my OC spray out?

00:16:25.815 --> 00:16:27.255
Do I pull my baton out?

00:16:27.555 --> 00:16:31.125
What am I pulling out here to
get me outta here and to get my

00:16:31.125 --> 00:16:34.755
partner outta here and also make
sure I'm not injuring someone else?

00:16:34.785 --> 00:16:36.405
My goal is to not kill someone.

00:16:36.405 --> 00:16:36.465
Hmm.

00:16:36.885 --> 00:16:40.635
So when I'm standing there thinking
about, okay, first use of option here

00:16:40.635 --> 00:16:44.745
that I'm thinking about is my gun, because
I just saw my partner who's possibly

00:16:44.750 --> 00:16:48.675
losing her life, punches are now coming
in on me as she's got her back to me.

00:16:48.675 --> 00:16:50.205
I'm fearing for my life.

00:16:50.235 --> 00:16:52.005
I don't know if I'm going home anymore.

00:16:52.155 --> 00:16:52.245
Mm-hmm.

00:16:53.295 --> 00:16:55.065
I've got a, I've got a girlfriend at home.

00:16:55.275 --> 00:16:55.425
Mm-hmm.

00:16:55.815 --> 00:16:58.755
I don't know if I'm gonna be able
to crawl into bed with her at the

00:16:58.755 --> 00:17:01.395
end of this shift that's heavy.

00:17:01.545 --> 00:17:01.845
Mm-hmm.

00:17:02.535 --> 00:17:06.645
To get into that place in life
as I'm going through this moment.

00:17:08.099 --> 00:17:10.379
Do I pull my gun out, I rule it out.

00:17:10.530 --> 00:17:11.819
There's not enough space.

00:17:11.970 --> 00:17:12.990
Punches are coming in.

00:17:12.990 --> 00:17:14.670
I need my hands to defend myself.

00:17:14.670 --> 00:17:16.349
My hands almost like the matrix, right.

00:17:16.349 --> 00:17:19.589
I'm doing the neo thing where I'm
kind of blocking and moving and

00:17:19.589 --> 00:17:21.180
everything slowed right down Trav.

00:17:21.185 --> 00:17:21.240
Yeah.

00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:21.990
Like, it was amazing.

00:17:21.990 --> 00:17:26.520
It was almost like time had stopped and
I had this ability to, to see punches

00:17:26.524 --> 00:17:31.920
coming in and to see things on a, a
microscopic kind of level that you don't

00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:35.490
get to ha have that experience when you're
not in that extreme fight or flight.

00:17:35.490 --> 00:17:38.490
The body has a really cool way of
really making sure it's flipping

00:17:38.490 --> 00:17:42.629
the odds in your favor to respond
to these incidents so you survive.

00:17:42.635 --> 00:17:42.780
Mm-hmm.

00:17:42.860 --> 00:17:44.460
And this is exactly
what my body was doing.

00:17:45.820 --> 00:17:49.830
I run through the rest of the options,
the OC spray, the baton, all these things.

00:17:49.830 --> 00:17:51.210
No, no, no, they're not gonna work.

00:17:51.210 --> 00:17:51.960
I spray people.

00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:53.010
I'm gonna get sprayed now.

00:17:53.014 --> 00:17:53.790
I can't see.

00:17:53.790 --> 00:17:55.020
Everybody's going crazy.

00:17:55.020 --> 00:17:55.980
I can't baton anyone.

00:17:55.980 --> 00:17:57.570
I don't have the room to swing the baton.

00:17:57.990 --> 00:18:00.870
And I was like, I don't have anything
on my belt that's gonna help me.

00:18:00.875 --> 00:18:01.260
Mm-hmm.

00:18:02.490 --> 00:18:03.510
I'm alone on this one.

00:18:03.550 --> 00:18:04.560
What do I do?

00:18:05.040 --> 00:18:09.300
And I remember at one point I
wasn't very religious at that point.

00:18:09.300 --> 00:18:13.350
I had grew up in a, in a Christian
household, but I remember looking

00:18:13.355 --> 00:18:18.629
down at my hands and just saying,
God, please do not let my hands break.

00:18:18.870 --> 00:18:19.230
Mm-hmm.

00:18:19.379 --> 00:18:20.340
I need them right now.

00:18:22.170 --> 00:18:23.220
And I just started swinging.

00:18:23.225 --> 00:18:23.629
Mm-hmm.

00:18:24.370 --> 00:18:28.320
And it was, it wasn't like a, a,
well, I guess it was kind of like

00:18:28.320 --> 00:18:34.139
a hockey fight in a sense where I
literally grabbed someone's shoulder.

00:18:34.965 --> 00:18:38.295
And punched through their jaw
as hard as I could, cuz I knew I

00:18:38.295 --> 00:18:39.585
had to start knocking people out.

00:18:39.585 --> 00:18:40.215
Mm-hmm.

00:18:40.785 --> 00:18:41.655
I had no choice.

00:18:42.105 --> 00:18:43.815
This wasn't a love punch.

00:18:43.815 --> 00:18:46.215
Like, Hey, get back, this was
a, I need to knock you out.

00:18:46.335 --> 00:18:46.815
Mm-hmm.

00:18:47.145 --> 00:18:48.255
And start dropping people.

00:18:49.425 --> 00:18:50.235
And I did just that.

00:18:50.715 --> 00:18:52.365
Uh, at that point I blacked out.

00:18:52.665 --> 00:18:54.465
I don't remember a lot
of what happened then.

00:18:54.735 --> 00:18:56.925
A lot of the gaps that get
filled in are from others.

00:18:57.765 --> 00:19:01.305
But I went into a state where
I just flipped that switch

00:19:01.305 --> 00:19:02.505
and I went to that next level.

00:19:02.925 --> 00:19:06.555
Uh, I think I might've knocked out,
uh, four to five different people

00:19:06.735 --> 00:19:09.795
as were surrounded by 50 and punches
are coming in from all angles.

00:19:10.295 --> 00:19:14.025
And right around the time that about
four or five people are starting

00:19:14.025 --> 00:19:19.185
to go down, I just reached down
and I grabbed one kid and I picked

00:19:19.185 --> 00:19:22.785
him up and I turned him basically
parallel to the ground, like a log.

00:19:23.325 --> 00:19:27.165
And I told my partner,
we're gonna move ahead.

00:19:27.375 --> 00:19:28.275
We're running outta here.

00:19:28.305 --> 00:19:29.205
Keep your back on mine.

00:19:29.205 --> 00:19:29.605
Mm-hmm.

00:19:29.685 --> 00:19:32.745
And I just used him as a battering
around and got out mm-hmm.

00:19:32.745 --> 00:19:37.275
And got her out as well and
grabbed her, threw her in a pc.

00:19:37.515 --> 00:19:39.945
I went into a PC and
we just left the area.

00:19:40.215 --> 00:19:40.545
Mm-hmm.

00:19:41.415 --> 00:19:42.525
There was nothing we could do.

00:19:45.315 --> 00:19:46.845
Travis Bader: So what was
the aftermath on that one?

00:19:48.405 --> 00:19:49.305
Nathan Kapler: For me personally?

00:19:50.175 --> 00:19:54.855
Travis Bader: Well, I mean, there's gonna
be a, uh, report that needs to be written.

00:19:54.915 --> 00:19:57.585
There's gonna be people that are
complaining about pre police brutality.

00:19:57.585 --> 00:19:59.595
There's gonna be an environment
that you're working in that's

00:19:59.595 --> 00:20:01.095
gonna be questioning your actions.

00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:07.830
And then there's your, um, your own
personal, uh, process that you're

00:20:07.830 --> 00:20:08.910
gonna be working through on that.

00:20:10.020 --> 00:20:13.080
Nathan Kapler: Yeah, it was, it
was a really complex thing because

00:20:13.080 --> 00:20:18.130
when we got back to the detachment,
which is a place of safety, right?

00:20:18.360 --> 00:20:21.840
So now you're kind of starting to let
the body kind of decompress mm-hmm.

00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:24.660
And letting some of that
adrenaline kind of fizzle out.

00:20:25.620 --> 00:20:29.370
It's incredibly taxing on the
body, incredibly taxing on the

00:20:29.370 --> 00:20:30.630
body to go through these things.

00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:39.180
So I know for me in that moment, I was
basically incapacitated for probably

00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:40.500
the better part of a few hours.

00:20:40.500 --> 00:20:45.900
I have no memory of what I did
after, I think I just tried to rest.

00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:50.880
I think, I think I went back and I took
my vest off and I just, I just tried to

00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:57.031
allow the body to just rest and just be,
and just process what I just went through.

00:20:57.990 --> 00:20:59.880
Did I have to explain all of this?

00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:00.750
Absolutely.

00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.920
Every single time we use force as
police, we have to write it down.

00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:09.960
We have to say what happened, why we used
the force, we did justify our actions.

00:21:10.290 --> 00:21:12.060
Uh, nothing bad ever came from it.

00:21:12.270 --> 00:21:13.860
Nobody actually complained.

00:21:14.190 --> 00:21:14.410
Mm.

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.880
Uh so I mean, and that
tells you something, right?

00:21:17.885 --> 00:21:17.950
Mm-hmm.

00:21:18.050 --> 00:21:18.390
As well.

00:21:18.530 --> 00:21:18.950
Mm-hmm.

00:21:19.410 --> 00:21:19.630
And.

00:21:20.399 --> 00:21:24.840
But the impact of that, I mean, even in
the moment where, uh, my partner and I

00:21:24.840 --> 00:21:29.220
sat down and now we're kind of switching
from almost losing our lives to now having

00:21:29.220 --> 00:21:34.620
to report this and write and articulate
and account for what we had just done.

00:21:35.580 --> 00:21:38.701
We didn't have a lot of time to really sit
and process, what did we just go through?

00:21:39.060 --> 00:21:39.180
Hmm.

00:21:39.280 --> 00:21:43.260
And how do you talk about it and
what, what kind of memories are

00:21:43.260 --> 00:21:44.970
stored right now in this moment?

00:21:44.970 --> 00:21:47.730
Like, it was incredibly foggy
as well for me in my mind.

00:21:48.060 --> 00:21:49.889
You know, what was, what
did I just go through?

00:21:49.895 --> 00:21:52.080
I couldn't put the pieces
of the puzzle together yet.

00:21:52.080 --> 00:21:52.379
Right?

00:21:52.530 --> 00:21:52.770
Hmm.

00:21:52.830 --> 00:21:54.149
It just was too fresh.

00:21:54.750 --> 00:22:00.180
So I think over time we tried our best
to come back as a team and kind of have

00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:05.399
whatever crisis debriefing that we could.

00:22:05.850 --> 00:22:10.800
But at the same time, we didn't do a good
job cuz it was us doing it for ourselves.

00:22:10.805 --> 00:22:10.980
Right.

00:22:10.980 --> 00:22:13.740
We might have went out for beers
and we're laughing about the story

00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:15.360
and, Hey, everybody's a superhero.

00:22:15.360 --> 00:22:16.430
We got outta this amazing story.

00:22:16.810 --> 00:22:18.149
But no one's saying Yeah.

00:22:18.149 --> 00:22:19.920
You know, like, that was scary.

00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:20.550
Mm-hmm.

00:22:20.730 --> 00:22:21.510
I was really sad.

00:22:21.510 --> 00:22:22.680
I thought I was gonna lose my life.

00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:22.950
Mm-hmm.

00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:23.970
Right.

00:22:23.975 --> 00:22:28.530
We're not drilling into the emotions
that we felt, and instead we're

00:22:28.530 --> 00:22:32.730
bypassing that which is impacting our
ability to, to process that event.

00:22:33.360 --> 00:22:35.129
Travis Bader: What happens
when you bypass those emotions?

00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:38.580
Nathan Kapler: Well, a
couple things happen.

00:22:38.910 --> 00:22:41.850
I'm not gonna get into the sciences
of it, but from what I've learned from

00:22:41.850 --> 00:22:45.240
going through everything I've gone
through, uh, obviously when you go

00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.910
through adrenaline, there's a lot of
chemicals that get dumped into the body.

00:22:47.910 --> 00:22:49.110
They get stored in the muscles.

00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:52.260
If you're not processing all of that
stuff alone, they get kinda locked

00:22:52.260 --> 00:22:53.250
up in the muscles a little bit.

00:22:53.250 --> 00:22:56.670
And it can create an imbalance right
in the body, same as your emotions.

00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.030
So now if you have a, an incident where
you're going through something as a

00:23:00.030 --> 00:23:02.550
police officer or first responder,
you're getting the adrenaline dump

00:23:02.555 --> 00:23:03.870
and you're also getting the emotion.

00:23:04.170 --> 00:23:08.220
If you're not properly dealing with both
of those issues, they just can hang out

00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:10.950
in the muscles for years, unprocessed.

00:23:11.370 --> 00:23:13.660
And over time it's like, you
know, the layers of the rock.

00:23:13.660 --> 00:23:18.720
You've build up enough layers where now
all of a sudden you've got a really solid

00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:20.910
rock with you that you're dragging around.

00:23:20.910 --> 00:23:24.990
And how do you peel back the
layers of the onions so that you

00:23:24.990 --> 00:23:28.860
can process everything that you've
gone through for 10, 15, 20 years?

00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:31.740
And that's usually where a
lot of guys fall into crisis.

00:23:32.500 --> 00:23:32.660
Hmm.

00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:35.220
And they don't know how to
start peeling that back.

00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:36.210
It's too much.

00:23:36.780 --> 00:23:39.510
Travis Bader: Well, you've got
an interesting couple of episodes

00:23:39.510 --> 00:23:42.900
on trauma being stored in the
body and not in the brain.

00:23:43.650 --> 00:23:45.480
And I thought that's interesting.

00:23:45.870 --> 00:23:46.860
Can you talk more on that?

00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:48.450
Nathan Kapler: Yeah, absolutely.

00:23:48.510 --> 00:23:53.820
So trauma, when I walked into, I'll
fast track the story, addiction issues,

00:23:54.060 --> 00:23:56.460
rehab, very Okay to talk about it.

00:23:57.240 --> 00:23:59.430
I walked into rehab and I,
and I asked that question.

00:23:59.430 --> 00:24:02.700
I said, Hey, I'm here to deal
with the trauma that's in my head.

00:24:03.465 --> 00:24:06.885
And this therapist who had a rat
tail, you know, sat down with me.

00:24:06.975 --> 00:24:08.804
He's like, it's not on your head, son.

00:24:08.810 --> 00:24:11.145
And I was like, where could it be?

00:24:12.014 --> 00:24:12.975
It's in your body.

00:24:13.215 --> 00:24:15.254
I'm like, no, it's not in my body.

00:24:16.635 --> 00:24:17.354
Explain this.

00:24:17.415 --> 00:24:17.745
Right.

00:24:17.774 --> 00:24:17.955
Yeah.

00:24:18.014 --> 00:24:18.794
So he says, you know what?

00:24:19.064 --> 00:24:21.554
Read this book, waking
The Tiger by Peter Levine.

00:24:21.560 --> 00:24:22.054
Amazing book.

00:24:22.425 --> 00:24:23.925
The first chapter is the best part.

00:24:23.925 --> 00:24:25.004
The rest kind of fizzles out.

00:24:25.010 --> 00:24:26.504
It's kind of a, it's a slower read.

00:24:26.985 --> 00:24:32.745
But in that, in that book, I learn about
this concept of the gazelle and the lion.

00:24:33.195 --> 00:24:33.435
Okay.

00:24:33.915 --> 00:24:35.324
So did you, have you heard this story?

00:24:35.354 --> 00:24:36.074
No, no.

00:24:36.465 --> 00:24:37.125
It's super cool.

00:24:37.245 --> 00:24:38.594
Okay, so you got the gazelle.

00:24:39.254 --> 00:24:44.054
The gazelle freaks out and goes, oh
no, I'm getting a attacked by a lion.

00:24:44.054 --> 00:24:44.745
It's chasing me.

00:24:44.745 --> 00:24:45.405
What do I do?

00:24:45.645 --> 00:24:49.064
They go through the same response that we
do fight or flight switches on, and their

00:24:49.064 --> 00:24:52.695
body gets a huge amount of adrenaline
dumped into the body, flares up the

00:24:52.695 --> 00:24:57.854
muscles, flares up the breathing system
so that everything's primed to runaway.

00:24:57.860 --> 00:24:58.054
Mm-hmm.

00:24:58.304 --> 00:25:00.074
They don't fight they flight.

00:25:00.254 --> 00:25:00.344
Mm-hmm.

00:25:00.645 --> 00:25:02.024
We kind of.

00:25:02.445 --> 00:25:03.045
Choose.

00:25:03.105 --> 00:25:04.335
We either fight or we flight.

00:25:04.335 --> 00:25:06.615
There's a new one called Freeze
that's kind of coming in where

00:25:06.615 --> 00:25:08.055
some people do freeze, fight,

00:25:08.055 --> 00:25:09.735
Travis Bader: flight,
freeze, posture, submit.

00:25:10.185 --> 00:25:12.165
Uh, everyone's got their own

00:25:12.165 --> 00:25:13.275
Nathan Kapler: little, yeah, yeah.

00:25:13.275 --> 00:25:13.605
Right.

00:25:13.605 --> 00:25:14.955
There's so many different versions.

00:25:14.985 --> 00:25:17.625
So we kind of have this blended
approach of, you know, how do

00:25:17.625 --> 00:25:19.035
we respond when we hit that?

00:25:19.095 --> 00:25:21.925
But the gazelle, for the most part,
if he's abled B abled body, he's

00:25:22.185 --> 00:25:23.475
gonna, he's gonna turn the switch on.

00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:25.095
He's gonna flight, he's gonna run.

00:25:25.514 --> 00:25:27.195
He has to, that's how he saves his life.

00:25:27.855 --> 00:25:31.035
So that gazelle is
supercharged in that moment.

00:25:31.040 --> 00:25:31.335
Right.

00:25:31.575 --> 00:25:33.825
So that gazelle takes off like a shot.

00:25:34.245 --> 00:25:39.405
Now if that lion can't catch
the gazelle, the gazelle will

00:25:39.405 --> 00:25:41.745
go, it will find a safe place.

00:25:42.615 --> 00:25:46.185
Once it's, once the chase is done
and it knows that it needs to

00:25:46.185 --> 00:25:49.305
go and needs to stop, it needs
to take a break and it needs to

00:25:49.305 --> 00:25:50.805
process what it just went through.

00:25:50.925 --> 00:25:51.075
Hmm.

00:25:51.105 --> 00:25:54.165
So that gazelle will actually
stop and shake violently for a

00:25:54.170 --> 00:25:58.065
prolonged period of time to shake
out the adrenaline, the chemicals

00:25:58.065 --> 00:25:59.105
that are now stored in that body.

00:25:59.475 --> 00:26:00.705
It's gotta get rid of it somehow.

00:26:00.710 --> 00:26:00.785
Mm-hmm.

00:26:00.955 --> 00:26:01.305
Right.

00:26:02.445 --> 00:26:06.165
And that's kind of the interesting thing
where, you know, we as humans, we don't.

00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:11.460
Take that, or we don't have that
ability to take that step, uh, in the

00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:15.000
role of a first responder or even just
men, sometimes we think, oh, we go

00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:18.150
through something significant, let's
just push on and go to the next thing.

00:26:18.510 --> 00:26:19.140
I'll be okay.

00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:23.040
I don't need to stop and shake or
talk or process what I just went

00:26:23.040 --> 00:26:26.730
through, or really kind of allow myself
to express, Hey, what I just went

00:26:26.730 --> 00:26:28.590
through was incredibly sad, tragic.

00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:28.860
Mm-hmm.

00:26:29.190 --> 00:26:31.440
All these different things, we
kind of just go, ah, you know what?

00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:32.670
That was tough, but I'm good.

00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:34.350
I'm just gonna keep forging on here.

00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:38.580
So I always like to share that story
because it highlights this, this

00:26:38.580 --> 00:26:41.250
thought of where the trauma sits.

00:26:41.340 --> 00:26:44.940
Now, if we say, you know, trauma
doesn't exist in the mind, it

00:26:44.945 --> 00:26:46.140
does actually exist in the mind.

00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:47.460
It exists in the mind is a memory.

00:26:47.520 --> 00:26:47.730
Mm-hmm.

00:26:47.760 --> 00:26:48.090
Right.

00:26:48.090 --> 00:26:48.870
Flashbacks.

00:26:48.875 --> 00:26:52.680
We can have a memory that pops up,
recalls the body into that certain state.

00:26:52.685 --> 00:26:57.480
Now you're having more of a traumatic, uh,
re-experience of what you've been through.

00:26:57.480 --> 00:26:58.170
Mm-hmm.

00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:01.770
But overall, trauma lives in the body.

00:27:06.300 --> 00:27:06.930
Travis Bader: Interesting.

00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:13.920
So what would be some ways that
a person can move that trauma

00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:16.290
outta the body without wearing it?

00:27:16.320 --> 00:27:20.130
Like you see some people, they, they
talk about mental health or they

00:27:20.130 --> 00:27:21.810
talk about addiction and that's them.

00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:23.830
Hey, I'm Bob recovering addict.

00:27:24.370 --> 00:27:31.350
I'm so-and-so with PTs D and I've
always been of the mindset that.

00:27:31.905 --> 00:27:37.335
Not only do we not know all the ins and
outs about mental health and the nuances,

00:27:37.335 --> 00:27:42.225
I think DSM five is what we're on right
now and it's reclassified PTs d and yet a

00:27:42.225 --> 00:27:47.355
new another place and introduced C PTs, D
complex PTs d and they're still learning.

00:27:48.284 --> 00:27:54.585
But I've always been of the mindset
that everybody can fix themselves.

00:27:54.705 --> 00:27:57.825
Everybody can get to
a place of being good.

00:27:57.885 --> 00:28:02.145
Um, sometimes you might need to be
shown the path we have to put the

00:28:02.145 --> 00:28:03.794
effort and work in to get there.

00:28:04.215 --> 00:28:09.855
But if we approach it from the
mindset of, I am good, I am fine.

00:28:10.215 --> 00:28:13.034
I'm just working through an
injury at the moment, right?

00:28:13.065 --> 00:28:16.544
There's, rather than mental health,
maybe call it like mental fitness,

00:28:16.845 --> 00:28:20.355
kind of like, man, I, I injured and
muscle when I was working out, I

00:28:20.360 --> 00:28:24.555
realized I'm gonna have to rest it
and ice it and, and, and all the rest.

00:28:26.385 --> 00:28:30.044
The mindset that you are otherwise
good, we're just gonna work on this

00:28:30.044 --> 00:28:33.585
one part, I think is a much healthier
way to be able to process and to say,

00:28:33.585 --> 00:28:39.705
I'm broken, I'm broken, and this is
my big baggage that I have to continue

00:28:39.705 --> 00:28:41.085
to work on for the rest of my life.

00:28:41.475 --> 00:28:46.495
So how would, how would you approach
from your experience working through

00:28:46.815 --> 00:28:50.565
those, those traumas that are
stored in the body and, and mind?

00:28:51.510 --> 00:28:55.679
Nathan Kapler: I, I and I, I come
back to 2019 when I went to rehab and

00:28:55.679 --> 00:28:59.280
I, again, I also walked in with two
trains of thought that trauma existed

00:28:59.280 --> 00:29:03.510
in my mind and that I was also going
to rehab to deal with the trauma that

00:29:03.510 --> 00:29:05.219
I experienced as a police officer.

00:29:05.225 --> 00:29:05.540
Mm-hmm.

00:29:06.080 --> 00:29:09.860
And for me, I was wrong
on both of those accounts.

00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:14.189
Uh, it was very early on in my
process with rehab where they sat

00:29:14.189 --> 00:29:17.340
me down and said, Hey, uh, you're
wrong about where trauma's stored.

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:19.919
You're also wrong about why you're here.

00:29:20.639 --> 00:29:20.850
Hmm.

00:29:20.909 --> 00:29:23.639
And I, I remember that hit me
like a ton of bricks and I, what,

00:29:23.639 --> 00:29:24.870
what are you talking about now?

00:29:25.439 --> 00:29:28.070
You know, man with a rat tail, right?

00:29:28.649 --> 00:29:30.810
Who, who are you and why are
you telling me this and how

00:29:30.810 --> 00:29:32.580
does this make any sense at all?

00:29:32.969 --> 00:29:38.429
But he said, listen, where
this all starts for you and for

00:29:38.490 --> 00:29:40.649
all of us is childhood trauma.

00:29:41.399 --> 00:29:44.969
We've gotta take you back to that
place as a child to where some of

00:29:44.969 --> 00:29:48.040
the more significant stuff happened
that you've never processed.

00:29:48.959 --> 00:29:52.770
We don't get to just show up as,
you know, Nate, the police officer

00:29:52.770 --> 00:29:56.399
for the last 14 years, and start
to unravel that piece of yarn.

00:29:56.580 --> 00:29:57.000
Mm-hmm.

00:29:57.080 --> 00:30:00.719
Because you have a whole segment
of life before that where the

00:30:00.725 --> 00:30:02.520
yarn is still wound uptight.

00:30:03.149 --> 00:30:06.000
And in order to make sure that you
have your best chance of success,

00:30:06.899 --> 00:30:12.239
we have to unravel that piece
of yarn from the start to today.

00:30:14.370 --> 00:30:16.560
And that's where I realized that.

00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:22.590
There's parts of our journey with mental
health where yes, we can tell ourselves

00:30:22.595 --> 00:30:28.260
that we're good, we're fine, we're working
on our issues, we're doing okay for now.

00:30:29.520 --> 00:30:33.600
But you also have to ask yourself the
question of what is that keeping you from?

00:30:33.899 --> 00:30:35.470
What next levels are there?

00:30:35.649 --> 00:30:39.179
If you fully admit that you've gone
through something significant and

00:30:39.179 --> 00:30:43.200
you're going to allow yourself to
heal and feel the past, all the hard

00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:44.610
things that you've never processed.

00:30:45.120 --> 00:30:49.679
For me again, I didn't
know which road to take.

00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:53.341
I, I was kind of, you know, not really
into this vulnerability thing yet, right?

00:30:53.346 --> 00:30:53.550
Mm-hmm.

00:30:53.629 --> 00:30:56.250
So I was still very much like,
you know, I'm just gonna dip

00:30:56.250 --> 00:30:57.720
my toes into this thing, right?

00:30:57.990 --> 00:31:00.060
I'm just gonna dip my toes
a little bit into, you know,

00:31:00.060 --> 00:31:01.409
what I've been through in life.

00:31:01.439 --> 00:31:01.530
Mm-hmm.

00:31:01.889 --> 00:31:09.600
And sure I healed, but my trajectory
took off when I finally said, how do

00:31:09.605 --> 00:31:14.330
I approach vulnerability in the most
authentic way and allow myself to

00:31:14.330 --> 00:31:18.419
really kind of have awareness into
everything that I've gone through to

00:31:18.419 --> 00:31:22.590
feel it, to process it, to share it
with others, cuz there's lessons learned

00:31:22.590 --> 00:31:24.330
in life from everything we go through.

00:31:25.530 --> 00:31:30.240
And that piece has been better for
me than just dipping my toes in

00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:34.710
the water and trying to carry the
backpack that's, you know, full of

00:31:34.710 --> 00:31:36.899
a few less stones, but still there.

00:31:38.040 --> 00:31:40.500
Travis Bader: So how do you share
that in the most authentic way?

00:31:40.560 --> 00:31:41.580
Is that the podcast?

00:31:42.899 --> 00:31:45.060
Nathan Kapler: It does not come easy.

00:31:46.004 --> 00:31:50.235
You have to work up to this, uh,
you know, for, for a long time.

00:31:50.235 --> 00:31:53.895
And I think when I finally hit my
crisis moment and I realized I needed

00:31:53.895 --> 00:31:58.995
help and I was going through addiction,
I didn't know how to share my story.

00:31:59.085 --> 00:32:01.125
And I was so pulled in.

00:32:01.125 --> 00:32:02.585
I had so much armor on.

00:32:02.955 --> 00:32:04.865
I wasn't willing to talk
or connect to anyone.

00:32:04.865 --> 00:32:06.795
And if I did, I was using masks.

00:32:06.795 --> 00:32:11.325
I was being either cynical or I was being,
trying to be the funny guy or trying to

00:32:11.325 --> 00:32:15.764
just be anything but Nate and show up
and talk about the pain and suffering

00:32:15.770 --> 00:32:17.205
that I had been through in my life.

00:32:18.165 --> 00:32:25.784
And I left rehab in 2019 with this, this
seed that this, this gentleman planted.

00:32:25.784 --> 00:32:30.345
And he said, Nate, only when you
decide to show up for yourself and

00:32:30.350 --> 00:32:37.365
share your full story with others, you
will not grow until that day happens.

00:32:39.585 --> 00:32:44.335
And I remember not really getting
the depth of that statement, really

00:32:44.335 --> 00:32:48.465
understanding it in the moment, kind
of understanding it, but still being

00:32:48.465 --> 00:32:51.284
like, no, this vulnerability thing, I
don't need to be vulnerable in order

00:32:51.284 --> 00:32:54.045
to, you know, grow and heal from
everything that's happened to me.

00:32:54.405 --> 00:32:57.495
So I tried to do it with the
dipping my toes in mentality.

00:32:57.615 --> 00:32:57.915
Mm-hmm.

00:32:57.975 --> 00:33:01.815
And I found over that time that once we
fell back into Covid and we were socially

00:33:01.815 --> 00:33:05.115
isolating again, I started to fall
back into old routines and behaviors.

00:33:05.445 --> 00:33:07.395
Addiction was becoming a thing again.

00:33:08.055 --> 00:33:10.095
And I had a second son at that point.

00:33:10.695 --> 00:33:14.850
And I remember looking at him and I
remember thinking in my mind, As a man

00:33:14.850 --> 00:33:16.980
now, as a dad, this is my second kid.

00:33:17.760 --> 00:33:21.180
If I don't change, I
stand to fuck this all up.

00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:21.990
Mm-hmm.

00:33:22.590 --> 00:33:24.540
And ruin everything for everyone.

00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:30.720
The things that I have created, my kids,
my house, my wife, I stand to lose it

00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:33.540
Travis Bader: all, you have to stop
the cycle at some point and you

00:33:33.540 --> 00:33:35.190
have take steps to stop that cycle.

00:33:35.550 --> 00:33:39.840
Nathan Kapler: So I committed to this
process of looking at him in his crib,

00:33:39.845 --> 00:33:41.940
going, how do I do this differently?

00:33:42.600 --> 00:33:45.210
It didn't make, sobriety didn't
make sense to me in that moment.

00:33:45.390 --> 00:33:45.660
Mm-hmm.

00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:46.560
It really didn't.

00:33:48.150 --> 00:33:52.800
But I said, is there a chance
that sobriety could be the answer?

00:33:53.100 --> 00:33:58.230
And I had no idea, but I also
knew the way that I was doing

00:33:58.230 --> 00:33:59.760
it wasn't working anymore.

00:33:59.970 --> 00:34:00.300
Mm-hmm.

00:34:00.870 --> 00:34:01.170
Right.

00:34:01.175 --> 00:34:04.890
Using medical cannabis to try and
deal with the PTSD and the symptoms.

00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:07.950
Yes, it works, but it's
a very slippery slope.

00:34:08.100 --> 00:34:08.550
Mm-hmm.

00:34:09.150 --> 00:34:09.480
Right.

00:34:09.989 --> 00:34:12.949
Much like we talked about, you've
gotta deal with the root issue.

00:34:13.010 --> 00:34:15.270
You can't just put a
bandaid on these things.

00:34:15.570 --> 00:34:20.250
Throwing medication at mental health
is, yes, it buys us time to continue to

00:34:20.255 --> 00:34:22.770
navigate through whatever we're going
through, whether it's the environment

00:34:22.770 --> 00:34:27.449
or these certain issues, but does it
really deal with the root cause, the

00:34:27.455 --> 00:34:30.469
root issue, and we all have those
things in us, those root issues.

00:34:30.929 --> 00:34:33.150
Some of us are more scared
to open up and share them.

00:34:34.230 --> 00:34:37.739
The, from what I've learned from
my own story, Trav, is that the

00:34:37.739 --> 00:34:42.780
only, the sh the only part of shame
that exists in this experience.

00:34:43.485 --> 00:34:46.305
Is holding it in and not
allowing it to come out.

00:34:47.475 --> 00:34:51.435
There's no shame in sharing your story,
like as I share my story with you.

00:34:51.945 --> 00:34:52.335
Yes.

00:34:52.340 --> 00:34:55.965
Years ago, I would've had immense amounts
of judgment or, or fear of judgment.

00:34:55.985 --> 00:34:56.205
Mm.

00:34:56.715 --> 00:34:57.015
Right.

00:34:57.020 --> 00:34:59.565
I would've felt, oh, Travis is
never going to accept me as a man

00:34:59.885 --> 00:35:01.175
because I've been through so much.

00:35:02.895 --> 00:35:03.375
I think that's

00:35:03.645 --> 00:35:04.155
Travis Bader: changing.

00:35:04.665 --> 00:35:06.735
I think people's perception
on that is changing.

00:35:06.945 --> 00:35:09.135
I hope I, I do, I believe it is.

00:35:09.165 --> 00:35:13.425
I believe that people will look at
this and say, holy crow, how do I,

00:35:13.905 --> 00:35:15.495
how do I become a man like that?

00:35:15.585 --> 00:35:18.285
How do I become a man who's
able to talk openly and freely

00:35:18.285 --> 00:35:21.495
about things that I would find
incredibly difficult to talk about?

00:35:22.725 --> 00:35:23.415
Nathan Kapler: Absolutely.

00:35:23.475 --> 00:35:24.945
So, and my story continues.

00:35:24.945 --> 00:35:28.635
It wasn't until coming out of, uh,
coming outta the pandemic and looking

00:35:28.635 --> 00:35:31.875
at my son, where I recognized, okay,
what does this sobriety thing look like?

00:35:32.205 --> 00:35:33.945
No idea, but I'm gonna commit to it.

00:35:34.125 --> 00:35:35.325
I'm just gonna see where it goes.

00:35:35.505 --> 00:35:38.415
So that, that was sobriety from
alcohol, sobriety, from medical

00:35:38.415 --> 00:35:39.615
cannabis, medical cannabis.

00:35:39.615 --> 00:35:39.616
Yeah.

00:35:39.795 --> 00:35:43.485
I had a brief window where
alcohol was an issue, but not.

00:35:43.490 --> 00:35:43.655
Mm-hmm.

00:35:43.815 --> 00:35:46.395
I was definitely drinking a little
bit more to hide some of the pain and

00:35:46.395 --> 00:35:47.475
suffering that I was going through.

00:35:48.105 --> 00:35:51.645
But for a majority, I, I never liked
alcohol cuz you always woke up the

00:35:51.645 --> 00:35:53.205
next morning in a lot more pain.

00:35:53.210 --> 00:35:53.355
Mm.

00:35:53.655 --> 00:35:56.595
Whereas with medical cannabis, you would
take it and it would slow the central

00:35:56.595 --> 00:36:00.315
nervous system down and calm the amygdala
down so you wouldn't have as much fear.

00:36:00.615 --> 00:36:00.855
Mm.

00:36:00.885 --> 00:36:04.125
You wouldn't be as scared because over
time, if we go through enough trauma,

00:36:04.455 --> 00:36:08.445
the brain will actually shift and that
amygdala will grow and it can actually

00:36:08.445 --> 00:36:11.445
grow to a point where you actually
almost become paranoid and very fearful.

00:36:11.745 --> 00:36:14.175
Cuz now the body's trying to say,
okay, you've been through too much.

00:36:14.205 --> 00:36:17.895
How do we send off more louder
warning signs so you don't continue

00:36:17.900 --> 00:36:19.395
to re-experience this stuff.

00:36:19.545 --> 00:36:19.725
Mm-hmm.

00:36:19.755 --> 00:36:23.175
So the body's trying to shift you
and bring you back to equilibrium

00:36:23.175 --> 00:36:25.485
and you're fighting it, you're
still running towards the fire.

00:36:26.805 --> 00:36:29.955
So I found medical cannabis really
helped with taming that, allowing

00:36:29.955 --> 00:36:31.635
me to relax, allowing me to sleep.

00:36:31.635 --> 00:36:35.265
There was a, it was a very long
period where, uh, I was an insomniac.

00:36:35.270 --> 00:36:35.955
I didn't sleep.

00:36:35.955 --> 00:36:39.435
I would maybe sleep 15 minutes a night
and at that time, like the mind is

00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:41.625
churning in a way I'd never experienced.

00:36:41.630 --> 00:36:41.895
Right.

00:36:41.900 --> 00:36:45.795
It was this, this hypervigilant
state that would carry through, uh,

00:36:45.795 --> 00:36:47.505
well into the morning early hours.

00:36:47.895 --> 00:36:52.425
And I, I, there was no way I could
fall asleep cuz the mind was just

00:36:52.425 --> 00:36:53.715
churning, churning, churning.

00:36:53.715 --> 00:36:57.135
And it had been, the body had experienced
way too much trauma and it couldn't

00:36:57.135 --> 00:37:02.115
find peace or rest, so it couldn't
get into sleeping and recovering.

00:37:02.125 --> 00:37:04.395
And that's also very dangerous for us too.

00:37:05.265 --> 00:37:08.715
Travis Bader: So my understanding is
the amygdala is your emotional center.

00:37:09.090 --> 00:37:11.160
Um, hippocampus would be memories.

00:37:11.250 --> 00:37:16.830
Um, prefrontal cortex will be how you
think about things in, in the moment.

00:37:16.835 --> 00:37:20.880
And these things get stored in
different parts of our brains and

00:37:20.910 --> 00:37:25.530
different substances will either,
uh, rewire the brain or suppress

00:37:25.535 --> 00:37:26.640
certain parts of the brain.

00:37:27.210 --> 00:37:30.720
Uh, I've seen, and I haven't listened to
him yet, but you've got podcasts about,

00:37:30.720 --> 00:37:34.920
um, uh, cannabis and about psychedelics,
and there's lots to talk about it.

00:37:34.925 --> 00:37:36.420
I know you've a friend of mine.

00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:42.300
He is a ambassador on the Heroic Hearts
program outta the UK for psychedelic,

00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:46.570
um, assisted recovery for mental health.

00:37:47.700 --> 00:37:49.590
How does that all kind of fall in?

00:37:49.590 --> 00:37:54.570
Because it's a very different sort
of a, a thought process than what

00:37:54.570 --> 00:37:56.700
most than what I was raised around.

00:37:56.970 --> 00:37:58.230
Drugs are bad, right?

00:37:58.440 --> 00:37:59.160
Don't do them.

00:37:59.580 --> 00:38:03.690
Um, now people are saying
almost like it's a panacea.

00:38:04.230 --> 00:38:07.830
He here cbd, it's legal, it's gonna
fix everything here, psychedelics,

00:38:07.830 --> 00:38:08.910
they're gonna fix everything.

00:38:10.350 --> 00:38:11.070
I gotta think.

00:38:11.070 --> 00:38:15.840
It's gotta be like most other medications,
they help a little bit, maybe in the time

00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:20.881
if used properly, but you have to have a
plan in place for how you approach this.

00:38:21.495 --> 00:38:22.515
What, what's your experience

00:38:22.515 --> 00:38:22.964
Nathan Kapler: with this?

00:38:23.325 --> 00:38:23.654
Yeah.

00:38:23.654 --> 00:38:28.125
And again, I'll, before I jump, continue
to jump further ahead, uh, in my own mind.

00:38:28.125 --> 00:38:31.634
So when I really started to embrace
this sobriety thing, just going

00:38:31.634 --> 00:38:37.035
back, uh, one question here, um,
that's when I started to really open

00:38:37.040 --> 00:38:39.435
up and start sharing my, my story.

00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:43.485
I started on TikTok of all places,
and it was safe for me, right?

00:38:43.490 --> 00:38:44.865
Because my family wasn't there.

00:38:45.045 --> 00:38:46.134
They weren't on TikTok Interesting.

00:38:46.185 --> 00:38:47.714
And my closest friends weren't there.

00:38:47.805 --> 00:38:48.165
Mm-hmm.

00:38:48.285 --> 00:38:48.615
Right?

00:38:49.065 --> 00:38:53.745
But at, as you know, time went on and
I'm on TikTok and I'm doing these lives

00:38:53.745 --> 00:38:55.395
and I'm talking about, Hey, I'm a cop.

00:38:55.395 --> 00:38:57.134
You know, I'm just
throwing myself out there.

00:38:57.134 --> 00:39:01.214
I'm trying the sobriety thing and,
and, uh, you know, there was immense

00:39:01.214 --> 00:39:04.845
amount of fear about talking about this
stuff and still being a police officer.

00:39:04.875 --> 00:39:05.055
Mm-hmm.

00:39:05.565 --> 00:39:05.895
Right?

00:39:05.895 --> 00:39:09.855
But I, I knew I had to do something
drastically different, and I didn't

00:39:09.855 --> 00:39:12.884
quite understand where this was gonna
take me, but I just said, you know what?

00:39:12.944 --> 00:39:13.875
It's worth a shot.

00:39:14.174 --> 00:39:15.315
I've got nothing to lose.

00:39:15.404 --> 00:39:18.404
I've been doing it the other way for so
long, it's just, it's not working anymore.

00:39:18.915 --> 00:39:23.505
As time went on, there was a, there
was a, a decent like group of community

00:39:23.505 --> 00:39:26.174
members that showed up and they
were all like, Hey, this is amazing.

00:39:26.174 --> 00:39:27.345
I'm going through the same thing.

00:39:27.345 --> 00:39:29.805
And I started to see that other
people went through this stuff too.

00:39:30.015 --> 00:39:30.315
Hmm.

00:39:30.585 --> 00:39:30.915
Right.

00:39:31.620 --> 00:39:34.800
The old adage of, Hey, you're
not alone, works great.

00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:37.620
When I tell you, Hey, Trav, you're
not alone in your struggles in life.

00:39:37.650 --> 00:39:37.950
Mm-hmm.

00:39:38.160 --> 00:39:41.130
But until you sit down and you talk
about your struggles, you don't really

00:39:41.130 --> 00:39:43.920
get it out on the table and you don't
really feel it, you don't really process

00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:45.120
it, you don't really connect over it.

00:39:45.120 --> 00:39:47.370
And that's, that's a really
kind of cool place to heal.

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:52.140
And so doing this on TikTok allowed
me to see that, okay, you know what?

00:39:52.620 --> 00:39:58.080
There's something legitimate here where
we can have a bigger conversation, but

00:39:58.080 --> 00:39:59.460
I've gotta do it on a different platform.

00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:01.560
I gotta do it on a, on a podcast platform.

00:40:01.560 --> 00:40:05.850
Because every time I did these
lives on TikTok, somebody missed it.

00:40:05.855 --> 00:40:09.130
They were out doing life, and they
couldn't just turn the podcast on, you

00:40:09.130 --> 00:40:10.980
know, on the drive to work or whatever.

00:40:11.730 --> 00:40:14.910
So I kind of stumbled on podcasting
just from people saying, Hey, have

00:40:14.910 --> 00:40:16.200
you thought about starting a podcast?

00:40:16.200 --> 00:40:16.980
Your stuff is good.

00:40:17.970 --> 00:40:21.090
I want to hear it, but I, I'm not
always available to catch you.

00:40:21.090 --> 00:40:21.270
Mm-hmm.

00:40:21.779 --> 00:40:22.020
Right.

00:40:22.020 --> 00:40:23.700
So that's how that, that started.

00:40:24.060 --> 00:40:28.410
And again, I just continued talking and
just talking about sobriety and talking

00:40:28.410 --> 00:40:30.090
about everything I had been through.

00:40:30.420 --> 00:40:36.690
And it's been a very cathartic therapeutic
journey where I can honestly say all

00:40:36.690 --> 00:40:41.040
the stones that I had in that backpack,
you know, have been emptied out.

00:40:41.040 --> 00:40:42.450
And I feel so much lighter now.

00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:43.470
So much lighter.

00:40:43.470 --> 00:40:44.820
No more shame, no more guilt.

00:40:44.850 --> 00:40:48.330
You know, the feelings that I had
that I hid behind, you know, the

00:40:48.330 --> 00:40:51.240
armor and tried to hide what I
was going through, it's all gone.

00:40:51.300 --> 00:40:52.140
It's on the table.

00:40:52.590 --> 00:40:54.750
Travis Bader: Are you concerned
with being labeled as a PTSD

00:40:54.750 --> 00:40:56.220
guy, the guy who's always talking

00:40:56.225 --> 00:40:56.880
Nathan Kapler: about his story?

00:40:57.330 --> 00:40:58.080
No, I'm not.

00:40:58.080 --> 00:41:00.210
Because there's two kinds
of guys that do this.

00:41:00.569 --> 00:41:03.600
There's the kind of guy that says, Hey,
I've got ptsd, T S D, I don't know how

00:41:03.600 --> 00:41:04.980
to grow and I'm never going to grow.

00:41:04.984 --> 00:41:05.310
Mm-hmm.

00:41:05.700 --> 00:41:07.410
And then there's me who
says, yeah, you know what?

00:41:07.410 --> 00:41:11.399
In the past I had ptsd, T S D, but I'm
learning on how to get out of that place.

00:41:11.430 --> 00:41:12.660
Do I still have symptoms?

00:41:12.720 --> 00:41:13.529
Absolutely.

00:41:13.529 --> 00:41:16.109
How could you not it, I went through
14 years of service with the mounts.

00:41:16.109 --> 00:41:19.950
I saw some pretty intense stuff, but
I know how to, I know how to deal

00:41:19.950 --> 00:41:21.390
with my health a lot better now.

00:41:21.390 --> 00:41:22.740
I have much better tools.

00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:23.100
Mm-hmm.

00:41:23.339 --> 00:41:23.609
Right?

00:41:23.609 --> 00:41:27.660
So I don't see myself as the guy that's,
you know, throwing the pity party.

00:41:27.660 --> 00:41:29.009
That's not what I'm looking for.

00:41:29.015 --> 00:41:32.609
I'm looking more as the, Hey, we're all
gonna go through some stuff in life,

00:41:32.670 --> 00:41:34.399
whether you're a police officer or not.

00:41:34.700 --> 00:41:36.210
How do you navigate that?

00:41:36.450 --> 00:41:36.660
Hmm.

00:41:36.690 --> 00:41:41.009
So I've now kind of learned to turn
this into a, here's how I'm growing.

00:41:41.819 --> 00:41:43.649
Do you want to tag along for the journey?

00:41:43.830 --> 00:41:46.740
I'll share everything that I've
learned much like yourself.

00:41:46.740 --> 00:41:48.750
You're doing something very
similar here too, right?

00:41:48.750 --> 00:41:48.870
Mm-hmm.

00:41:49.109 --> 00:41:52.440
You're pushing people ever
so slightly every day.

00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:53.549
This is how you better yourself.

00:41:53.549 --> 00:41:56.430
I'm gonna bring you value, I'm gonna bring
you value, I'm gonna bring you value.

00:41:56.940 --> 00:42:03.029
And I think when we can finally embrace,
for me anyways, when I, when I finally

00:42:03.029 --> 00:42:05.640
embraced vulnerability, sobriety,
and all of these different things and

00:42:05.640 --> 00:42:09.089
started telling my story, I actually
began to leave that place of ptsd, T S

00:42:09.089 --> 00:42:12.241
D, and I don't feel like I'm attached
to it as much as I, I used to be.

00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:13.230
You still

00:42:13.230 --> 00:42:14.310
Travis Bader: feel there's
an attachment though?

00:42:15.030 --> 00:42:16.290
Will there always be there?

00:42:16.290 --> 00:42:21.000
Nathan Kapler: There are definitely
symptoms that still pop up, but I know

00:42:21.005 --> 00:42:24.330
how to catch them now and do breath work.

00:42:24.335 --> 00:42:26.700
Meditation, yoga, go for a walk.

00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:30.570
I know how to tell when the body's
stressed out, it's impacting the mind.

00:42:30.570 --> 00:42:34.230
Maybe I'm not sleeping as well, so I need
to sh you know, make those subtle shifts.

00:42:34.530 --> 00:42:36.720
Much like when we were having
that conversation earlier.

00:42:36.720 --> 00:42:40.920
When we're healthy, we can pick up on the
things that we need to do in the moment to

00:42:40.925 --> 00:42:42.930
shift us and keep us in that normal range.

00:42:43.410 --> 00:42:45.690
But when we start to fall apart,
we kinda lose that ability.

00:42:45.690 --> 00:42:46.950
The body's now adapting again.

00:42:46.950 --> 00:42:46.951
Right.

00:42:47.580 --> 00:42:50.820
So I've come back into a more normal,
I'll say, a more normal healthy range.

00:42:51.100 --> 00:42:51.340
Mm-hmm.

00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:54.930
And I don't use normal as in
this, you know, life is abnormal.

00:42:54.930 --> 00:42:55.020
Sure.

00:42:55.020 --> 00:42:56.130
We go through some stuff, right?

00:42:56.130 --> 00:42:56.340
Sure.

00:42:57.030 --> 00:43:00.390
Um, I would explain it that way.

00:43:02.160 --> 00:43:03.790
Travis Bader: How do you identify
when you see in your body?

00:43:04.410 --> 00:43:05.430
What are some symptoms?

00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:07.110
Levels of activation?

00:43:07.380 --> 00:43:07.680
Nathan Kapler: Yeah.

00:43:07.680 --> 00:43:08.790
Levels of activation.

00:43:08.819 --> 00:43:11.610
Uh, I don't handle stress
as well as I used to.

00:43:11.700 --> 00:43:14.490
So I find that, and I don't know
if this is a cortisol thing or not,

00:43:14.490 --> 00:43:17.220
but I get a lot of muscle aches, a
lot of pain in the muscles mm-hmm.

00:43:17.610 --> 00:43:18.509
Uh, throughout the body.

00:43:18.569 --> 00:43:21.540
So if I've been going through too many
stressful events in the day or the week,

00:43:21.540 --> 00:43:25.590
or I'm not taking the time to walk or
work out or workout or, or meditate

00:43:25.595 --> 00:43:30.090
or kind of reestablish and rebalance
the body, I get a lot of muscle aches.

00:43:30.095 --> 00:43:30.150
Hmm.

00:43:30.299 --> 00:43:33.630
Um, you know, a lot of times that
irritability tends to kick up too, when

00:43:33.630 --> 00:43:35.160
we're really struggling with something.

00:43:35.160 --> 00:43:35.370
Right.

00:43:35.370 --> 00:43:36.690
We become angry.

00:43:36.930 --> 00:43:38.790
So that for me is a huge red flag.

00:43:38.790 --> 00:43:41.569
If I'm starting to get angry and
I have, you know, I really have to

00:43:41.569 --> 00:43:44.040
check myself on what's going on.

00:43:44.279 --> 00:43:47.520
I know I'm not doing well and I gotta
nudge myself back into a place of more

00:43:47.520 --> 00:43:50.490
compassion, more patience, more whatever.

00:43:50.490 --> 00:43:50.759
Right.

00:43:50.819 --> 00:43:52.590
And as a dad too, very difficult.

00:43:52.710 --> 00:43:53.040
Mm.

00:43:53.279 --> 00:43:53.520
Right.

00:43:53.520 --> 00:43:54.569
When you have young kids mm-hmm.

00:43:54.650 --> 00:43:56.160
Like, you really do
have to check yourself.

00:43:56.160 --> 00:43:56.460
Right.

00:43:56.700 --> 00:44:00.029
You had a father who is, uh,
who is, you know, in policing.

00:44:00.035 --> 00:44:00.569
That's right.

00:44:00.779 --> 00:44:01.110
Right.

00:44:01.500 --> 00:44:05.700
And um, you know, I'm sure
we can all remember that.

00:44:05.750 --> 00:44:07.920
And, and for me, my dad too, growing up.

00:44:08.940 --> 00:44:10.290
He had some pretty angry moments.

00:44:11.710 --> 00:44:11.930
Yes.

00:44:11.930 --> 00:44:12.090
Right?

00:44:12.090 --> 00:44:12.290
Yes.

00:44:12.660 --> 00:44:15.480
And I want to try to get rid of those
so that my kids know that there's,

00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:17.220
there's love and compassion in the house.

00:44:17.520 --> 00:44:17.610
Mm-hmm.

00:44:17.850 --> 00:44:19.500
And, and change that.

00:44:19.590 --> 00:44:23.100
Um, and I think it's really important
for men to understand and really

00:44:23.100 --> 00:44:26.850
know themselves on what they need so
that they can keep themselves well.

00:44:26.850 --> 00:44:29.490
Like, this isn't even really
a P T S D topic anymore.

00:44:29.490 --> 00:44:31.170
Now we're just talking
about mental health.

00:44:31.230 --> 00:44:31.320
Hmm.

00:44:31.500 --> 00:44:34.290
What does your mental health look like
so that you're staying well, so that

00:44:34.290 --> 00:44:38.970
you can be a, a great dad, a provider,
uh, you can, you know, invest in your

00:44:38.970 --> 00:44:40.799
community and see others succeed.

00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:44.220
You have to look at yourself first,
and you really have to ask yourself

00:44:44.220 --> 00:44:47.580
some hard questions about where
are you with your own health.

00:44:49.259 --> 00:44:51.000
Travis Bader: You never, we
never did touch on the, uh,

00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:52.200
the psychedelic part though.

00:44:53.070 --> 00:44:53.549
Nathan Kapler: Drugs.

00:44:53.670 --> 00:44:53.850
Yeah.

00:44:53.850 --> 00:44:55.830
Drug is such, such an interesting thing.

00:44:55.835 --> 00:44:56.070
Right.

00:44:56.130 --> 00:44:59.790
I come, I come from a background where,
yeah, I fall into addiction with cannabis,

00:44:59.790 --> 00:45:02.910
but the very beginning stages of it,
and this is what it taught me, is that

00:45:03.270 --> 00:45:05.101
there is a therapeutic value to it.

00:45:05.279 --> 00:45:06.211
It does help for sure.

00:45:08.070 --> 00:45:12.630
But when it's, when there's no tailored
supported kind of guideline in place

00:45:12.634 --> 00:45:16.110
for the people that are using it, it can
become a very slippery slope very quickly.

00:45:16.259 --> 00:45:16.560
Hmm.

00:45:16.740 --> 00:45:18.240
And we have to be very careful with that.

00:45:18.690 --> 00:45:22.350
We also don't have a lot of
knowledge or research yet hard

00:45:22.350 --> 00:45:24.181
cold facts about what does it do?

00:45:24.945 --> 00:45:26.475
Like, what does it actually do?

00:45:26.895 --> 00:45:29.445
Because they've been illegal
for a number of years.

00:45:29.475 --> 00:45:29.655
Mm-hmm.

00:45:30.075 --> 00:45:30.285
Right.

00:45:30.285 --> 00:45:31.125
So we don't have that.

00:45:31.125 --> 00:45:34.035
So we're now starting to look at,
okay, we're kind of shifting from

00:45:34.035 --> 00:45:38.145
prohibition into, okay, medical
ca or cannabis now is legalized.

00:45:38.150 --> 00:45:38.385
Right?

00:45:38.385 --> 00:45:40.305
We're using it, the world's not burning.

00:45:40.365 --> 00:45:40.545
Mm-hmm.

00:45:40.815 --> 00:45:41.175
Right.

00:45:41.180 --> 00:45:43.635
Similar to y2k, everything
worked out okay.

00:45:43.655 --> 00:45:44.075
Mm-hmm.

00:45:44.895 --> 00:45:46.905
Cannabis, everything
seems to be a going Okay.

00:45:47.475 --> 00:45:50.205
So now we're starting to study it
and we're starting to see kind of the

00:45:50.210 --> 00:45:52.395
benefits, some of the cons as well.

00:45:52.875 --> 00:45:55.965
And we're starting to arm ourselves
with that knowledge about where can it

00:45:55.970 --> 00:45:59.175
be used, under what circumstance, you
know, what's the best way to use it.

00:45:59.565 --> 00:46:03.135
So I think we're at the infancy stage
of, you know, really understanding

00:46:03.135 --> 00:46:05.715
what some of these chemicals
and compounds can do for us.

00:46:06.525 --> 00:46:09.615
One of the beautiful things I
see, uh, happening right now,

00:46:09.615 --> 00:46:10.815
I think, is it Ryan Miller?

00:46:11.355 --> 00:46:12.705
Ryan Miller on YouTube.

00:46:12.885 --> 00:46:12.975
Okay.

00:46:12.975 --> 00:46:13.665
Navy Seal.

00:46:13.785 --> 00:46:14.025
Okay.

00:46:14.030 --> 00:46:14.895
Have you ever seen this?

00:46:15.115 --> 00:46:15.235
I,

00:46:15.585 --> 00:46:17.205
Travis Bader: I haven't, I'll be honest.

00:46:17.235 --> 00:46:22.545
I don't really listen to podcasts or,
uh, but, uh, I'll, I'll pick out parts.

00:46:22.550 --> 00:46:27.045
I get parts, the ADHD kicks in and I, uh,
for a guy who's got a podcast, I really

00:46:27.045 --> 00:46:28.575
probably should pay a bit more attention.

00:46:29.115 --> 00:46:29.805
Nathan Kapler: But it makes sense.

00:46:29.805 --> 00:46:31.845
If you make a podcast, the
last thing you're gonna do

00:46:31.935 --> 00:46:33.435
is listen to another podcast.

00:46:33.435 --> 00:46:36.255
I, again, it's, it all comes
down to timing and stuff, right?

00:46:36.255 --> 00:46:38.955
So I'm the same way, but Ryan,
I believe it's Ryan Miller or

00:46:38.955 --> 00:46:40.365
Ryan Shaw, I can't remember.

00:46:40.365 --> 00:46:42.995
I'll get the name of it here for
you cuz it's a fascinating story.

00:46:42.995 --> 00:46:46.395
But he has someone come on a
Navy Seal and these guys are like

00:46:46.395 --> 00:46:47.865
the elite of the elite, right?

00:46:47.865 --> 00:46:47.955
Mm-hmm.

00:46:48.195 --> 00:46:49.755
They're out there doing
some pretty intense stuff.

00:46:50.615 --> 00:46:54.405
And you know, this gentleman to kind
of condense the story talks about his

00:46:54.405 --> 00:46:57.945
experience where I think he had been
in therapy for a number of years,

00:46:57.945 --> 00:47:01.635
it kind of had helped and they were
dealing with some stuff, but a lot of

00:47:01.635 --> 00:47:04.725
times we hold ourselves back and we
hide and we're not really willing to

00:47:04.725 --> 00:47:06.315
show the root or deal with the root.

00:47:06.315 --> 00:47:06.555
Right.

00:47:06.555 --> 00:47:08.505
That's kind of a part of the
process too with mental health.

00:47:08.505 --> 00:47:08.595
Mm-hmm.

00:47:08.601 --> 00:47:09.595
As we try to protect ourselves.

00:47:10.365 --> 00:47:14.625
And what he ends up doing is he ends
up going down and trying this, I again,

00:47:15.615 --> 00:47:17.895
Experience at a retreat in Mexico.

00:47:18.405 --> 00:47:21.615
And he goes through, I think it
was Ibogaine mixed with D M T.

00:47:21.615 --> 00:47:25.875
And I think it's a seven day period
where there's uh, there's doctors

00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:29.685
there and shamans, and there's all
these support people that literally

00:47:29.685 --> 00:47:31.365
say, okay, here's what you're doing.

00:47:31.815 --> 00:47:34.285
We're gonna be here to help
you walk through this journey.

00:47:34.685 --> 00:47:34.845
Hmm.

00:47:34.905 --> 00:47:36.075
And they do it.

00:47:36.075 --> 00:47:38.685
And a lot of people are coming
out of this saying, you know what?

00:47:38.745 --> 00:47:42.315
Everything that I struggled with,
you know, not having positive

00:47:42.315 --> 00:47:47.205
emotion, only negative mm, not
feeling love or compassion anymore.

00:47:47.205 --> 00:47:50.915
Not being able to sleep anymore, having
a mind that's constantly racing, having

00:47:51.105 --> 00:47:54.345
a body that doesn't feel safe, having
anxiety to the point where my hands

00:47:54.345 --> 00:47:58.635
are sweating and I'm always shaking,
being fearful all the time, having

00:47:58.635 --> 00:48:00.855
feelings of dread, shame, and guilt.

00:48:00.855 --> 00:48:06.495
All this stuff that comes from repeated,
uh, exposures to trauma is gone.

00:48:08.265 --> 00:48:08.865
Interesting.

00:48:10.105 --> 00:48:11.295
So what do we know?

00:48:12.075 --> 00:48:12.705
We know nothing.

00:48:13.015 --> 00:48:13.135
Hmm?

00:48:13.605 --> 00:48:14.355
We're just starting.

00:48:14.685 --> 00:48:20.595
So my opinion is, I think we all need to
have an open mind on where this can go.

00:48:24.555 --> 00:48:29.625
Travis Bader: So you went to rehab and
they say you've gotta unpack things

00:48:29.625 --> 00:48:30.735
that have happened in your past.

00:48:31.785 --> 00:48:33.525
Was that the majority of
the work that was done?

00:48:38.355 --> 00:48:39.555
Nathan Kapler: Yes and no.

00:48:39.765 --> 00:48:42.195
Uh, as six weeks stay in
rehab, what did we do?

00:48:42.195 --> 00:48:45.225
We did a lot, uh, and we did a lot
of talking and we learned how to

00:48:45.225 --> 00:48:48.945
really talk about our emotions and
really connect with our emotions and

00:48:48.945 --> 00:48:50.325
the stuff that happens in our past.

00:48:51.375 --> 00:48:54.285
Childhood trauma was kind of
the starting point for me where

00:48:54.465 --> 00:48:57.016
uh, we touched on a memory that
absolutely broke me in the moment.

00:48:57.545 --> 00:48:57.705
Hmm.

00:48:58.305 --> 00:49:01.185
I was sitting in a chair and it
was the first time in my adult life

00:49:01.185 --> 00:49:06.315
that I was finally able to see and
express something in my childhood

00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:08.295
that was to me at that stage.

00:49:08.295 --> 00:49:15.985
So horrific, so painful, such a breach
of trust that I finally allowed myself to

00:49:16.275 --> 00:49:19.965
feel it and break from it and just cry.

00:49:20.355 --> 00:49:20.985
Have you talked about

00:49:20.985 --> 00:49:21.915
Travis Bader: this on your podcast?

00:49:22.965 --> 00:49:25.635
Nathan Kapler: Uh, it involves a
family member, so I try not to go

00:49:25.635 --> 00:49:31.635
too deep into it, but, uh, I don't,
I think I've alluded to this event,

00:49:33.195 --> 00:49:34.505
but I don't think I've gone too deep.

00:49:34.875 --> 00:49:37.935
Uh, just outta respect
for family members, right?

00:49:37.995 --> 00:49:41.805
Because there, there's an interesting
thing that happens in this moment when we

00:49:41.805 --> 00:49:46.125
first go through this, this memory of, you
know, why did this person do this to me?

00:49:47.025 --> 00:49:49.935
There's a lot of anger there
cuz you don't understand it.

00:49:50.745 --> 00:49:53.775
And eventually you have to learn
how to try and forgive that person

00:49:53.875 --> 00:49:57.105
for what they were going through in
their life that caused them to have

00:49:57.110 --> 00:50:01.005
this reaction cuz it actually was
less about you and more about them.

00:50:02.670 --> 00:50:05.700
And that's kind of an interesting thing
too, where you start to begin to teach

00:50:05.700 --> 00:50:08.880
yourself how to have more compassion
for others and some of the pain that

00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:11.880
they might be going through, because
we're all struggling with something.

00:50:12.750 --> 00:50:12.840
Mm-hmm.

00:50:14.759 --> 00:50:18.690
So we gotta try and find a way
to forgive people and understand,

00:50:19.110 --> 00:50:20.220
uh, maybe from their end.

00:50:20.220 --> 00:50:25.020
Now that doesn't excuse this person
for what they did, but I also have to

00:50:25.020 --> 00:50:30.690
move on with my life, and I have to
not let this be a stone in my backpack

00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:33.570
and I have to let that stone come out.

00:50:34.350 --> 00:50:34.980
Travis Bader: How has that stone

00:50:34.980 --> 00:50:35.400
Nathan Kapler: come out?

00:50:35.850 --> 00:50:41.160
It has, um, it has, for me, uh, the way
that it came out, I didn't need to go to

00:50:41.160 --> 00:50:44.940
this individual and hash out, you know,
in years past, this is what happened.

00:50:44.940 --> 00:50:45.900
We need to talk about it.

00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:47.280
That was so long ago, right?

00:50:47.310 --> 00:50:47.430
Mm-hmm.

00:50:47.670 --> 00:50:51.270
I was able to feel the emotion
while I was in rehab, talk about

00:50:51.270 --> 00:50:53.670
it in rehab, and get it out.

00:50:53.675 --> 00:50:53.770
Mm-hmm.

00:50:53.850 --> 00:50:56.670
Like, let the body finally
feel this and just let it out.

00:50:57.150 --> 00:51:01.321
And that, for me, that that emotion or
that that moment for me in my life too,

00:51:01.326 --> 00:51:04.620
is a moment where I look back and now,
and I really recognize that as a kid,

00:51:04.980 --> 00:51:08.640
I didn't know how to process that, so I
just armored up as a kid, put the armor

00:51:08.640 --> 00:51:09.690
on and said, nobody's gonna hurt me.

00:51:10.650 --> 00:51:11.070
Mm-hmm.

00:51:11.190 --> 00:51:11.630
Not anymore.

00:51:12.720 --> 00:51:15.810
So I had this approach of, you
know, trying to protect myself and

00:51:15.810 --> 00:51:18.720
stay inwards and not, you know,
allow myself to really come out.

00:51:18.720 --> 00:51:21.210
So these are all things I
had to learn as an adult.

00:51:21.210 --> 00:51:23.940
So it's almost like in a sense, like
I was listening to the Foo Fighters on

00:51:23.940 --> 00:51:26.610
the drive in today and it was, he was
talking about learning to walk again.

00:51:26.610 --> 00:51:29.760
And I mean, we do this when we, we break
a leg, but when you, when you go through

00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:33.720
something significant in your life,
i e mental health, you have to really

00:51:33.720 --> 00:51:36.870
challenge yourself on the old ways and
say, okay, how am I gonna do this now?

00:51:36.870 --> 00:51:38.130
How am I gonna grow from this place?

00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:40.800
So has the stone come out?

00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:42.300
The stone has come out because I see it.

00:51:42.720 --> 00:51:44.550
Uh, I know what I needed to do.

00:51:44.550 --> 00:51:46.140
I needed to forgive this individual.

00:51:46.530 --> 00:51:49.080
Um, will I ever talk about
it openly with that person?

00:51:49.560 --> 00:51:49.951
I don't know.

00:51:50.250 --> 00:51:51.120
I don't know.

00:51:51.180 --> 00:51:52.400
I, you know, may, may.

00:51:52.740 --> 00:51:53.520
Maybe I need to.

00:51:53.520 --> 00:51:54.630
I have no idea.

00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:55.560
I

00:51:55.560 --> 00:51:55.640
Travis Bader: have.

00:51:55.650 --> 00:51:56.520
How, how would you know?

00:51:59.070 --> 00:52:02.130
Nathan Kapler: I think it's, I think
it's something that if you're still

00:52:02.135 --> 00:52:05.850
struggling with it and you really gotta
pay attention to what's going on right.

00:52:05.850 --> 00:52:06.540
With the body.

00:52:07.020 --> 00:52:09.900
Um, cuz there was definitely a time
when I used to think about this, it

00:52:09.900 --> 00:52:11.520
would cause the body to get fearful.

00:52:11.850 --> 00:52:12.120
Hmm.

00:52:12.855 --> 00:52:16.335
Or to shake, or it would cause
some, some heavy and hard emotions.

00:52:16.725 --> 00:52:19.845
Whereas now I can think about this
moment and go, okay, there's really

00:52:19.845 --> 00:52:21.675
no emotional connection to it anymore.

00:52:21.675 --> 00:52:21.975
Right.

00:52:22.215 --> 00:52:23.745
I'm not feeling sad anymore.

00:52:23.745 --> 00:52:25.875
I'm not feeling like I
need to let anything out.

00:52:26.265 --> 00:52:29.815
Um, you know, I have a lot more
acceptance over the why, right?

00:52:29.815 --> 00:52:29.975
Mm.

00:52:30.315 --> 00:52:31.575
I don't blame that person.

00:52:31.855 --> 00:52:35.175
I accept that, okay, you know what,
this is something that they were going

00:52:35.175 --> 00:52:39.765
through and I think, I don't know if
this is the answer or not, but when you

00:52:39.765 --> 00:52:43.635
can finally look back and just have an
understanding and have peace around that,

00:52:44.865 --> 00:52:46.695
that's gotta be some level of healing.

00:52:48.585 --> 00:52:52.565
Travis Bader: So exposure therapy
would be talking about it, putting

00:52:52.695 --> 00:52:56.625
yourself back into that sort of mental
situation and trying to find a way to

00:52:56.925 --> 00:52:59.175
deal with that in a more positive way.

00:52:59.745 --> 00:53:03.855
Is there a concern about, and I've
heard the analogy of the, the dirt road.

00:53:04.545 --> 00:53:07.966
You go down that dirt road, you hit a
bump, you go down that same dirt road,

00:53:08.205 --> 00:53:11.535
you hit the bump again, it gets a bit
deeper, and pretty soon it's kind of hard.

00:53:11.535 --> 00:53:14.175
You start wearing ruts and
you keep going down that same

00:53:14.175 --> 00:53:15.645
road, that same mental process.

00:53:16.755 --> 00:53:21.075
Is there a benefit to just
drawing an X through that road

00:53:21.135 --> 00:53:22.365
and taking a different road?

00:53:23.745 --> 00:53:27.225
Nathan Kapler: What I've learned
about mental health is that anytime

00:53:27.230 --> 00:53:30.525
there's an issue with your mental
health, the first thing you're gonna

00:53:30.525 --> 00:53:33.945
do when you look at something and you
ask yourself that question of Should

00:53:33.945 --> 00:53:35.805
I walk towards this issue or not?

00:53:36.225 --> 00:53:39.345
If the answer is, I'm going
to embrace denial and avoid.

00:53:40.170 --> 00:53:42.960
That usually means there's
some work to do there.

00:53:43.319 --> 00:53:43.680
Hmm.

00:53:44.069 --> 00:53:44.370
Right.

00:53:44.370 --> 00:53:46.950
So I've adopted that approach for myself.

00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:50.279
So we talk about this, this road, right?

00:53:50.520 --> 00:53:51.569
And sure.

00:53:51.575 --> 00:53:56.190
If we, if we dwell on too much of the
past, that can be very problematic.

00:53:56.460 --> 00:53:58.870
It takes us outta the present
moment, and that's all we have in

00:53:59.069 --> 00:54:00.540
this life is the present moment.

00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:02.040
I agree.

00:54:02.100 --> 00:54:02.850
Not the future.

00:54:02.910 --> 00:54:03.660
Not the past.

00:54:03.690 --> 00:54:03.779
Mm-hmm.

00:54:03.786 --> 00:54:06.060
If we think too broadly about
that stuff, we do have to do

00:54:06.060 --> 00:54:07.379
it for some things, right?

00:54:07.680 --> 00:54:13.440
Planning houses, the kids, vacations, you
know, finances, all that kind of stuff.

00:54:13.680 --> 00:54:16.441
Let yourself do that, but try
to stay in the present moment.

00:54:16.890 --> 00:54:20.339
If we think too much about the past,
it's gonna suck you down into this,

00:54:20.339 --> 00:54:24.660
this horrible way of being where, and
I think a lot of people get lost there.

00:54:25.109 --> 00:54:25.589
I agree.

00:54:26.580 --> 00:54:27.150
They get lost.

00:54:27.150 --> 00:54:27.870
In the past.

00:54:28.080 --> 00:54:32.700
Travis Bader: The, your past doesn't
exist, essentially oth side of your

00:54:32.705 --> 00:54:36.089
memory or the memory of others, or
your perception of others', memory of

00:54:36.089 --> 00:54:36.330
Nathan Kapler: that.

00:54:36.720 --> 00:54:37.350
Absolutely.

00:54:37.560 --> 00:54:39.089
Your experiences are very valid.

00:54:39.270 --> 00:54:42.089
What you think you've
learned from it, very valid.

00:54:42.390 --> 00:54:45.420
But could you have learned something
that actually doesn't serve you?

00:54:45.839 --> 00:54:46.140
Hmm.

00:54:46.859 --> 00:54:50.339
So what I try to do now is I try to
look at my past and go, okay, yeah,

00:54:50.345 --> 00:54:51.540
you know what, this happened to me.

00:54:51.839 --> 00:54:55.845
This created a sense of, uh, Unrest.

00:54:55.845 --> 00:54:58.635
Like for me, for example, when I went
through this significant thing as a

00:54:58.635 --> 00:55:00.615
child, it happened with another man.

00:55:00.885 --> 00:55:04.365
So for many years I really had a
hard time walking into a room with

00:55:04.365 --> 00:55:08.175
a man feeling comfortable and just
showing up and sharing who I was.

00:55:08.325 --> 00:55:08.715
Mm-hmm.

00:55:08.745 --> 00:55:10.365
I hid for a long time.

00:55:10.455 --> 00:55:12.205
And I think we can all kind
of resonate with that, right?

00:55:12.705 --> 00:55:16.635
We might kind of feel more comfortable one
way or the other to a certain sex, right?

00:55:16.635 --> 00:55:19.525
Whether it's female or male because
of something that's happened to us.

00:55:20.145 --> 00:55:22.155
So, and those are the interesting
things that you gotta pay

00:55:22.155 --> 00:55:23.235
attention to in your life.

00:55:23.235 --> 00:55:25.335
The challenges where you gotta
go, okay, what's going on here?

00:55:26.265 --> 00:55:27.855
Why do I not feel safer around men?

00:55:27.915 --> 00:55:29.415
Why do I not feel safer around women?

00:55:29.420 --> 00:55:30.405
If that's the case for you?

00:55:30.525 --> 00:55:30.765
Hmm.

00:55:30.975 --> 00:55:35.205
So for me, having that breach of trust,
uh, in men, I did struggle with, you

00:55:35.205 --> 00:55:39.375
know, having that ability to connect
with a man much different now, right?

00:55:39.375 --> 00:55:39.376
Mm-hmm.

00:55:39.385 --> 00:55:41.295
I can sit here with you and
I'm like, Hey, I'm good.

00:55:41.685 --> 00:55:42.075
Hmm.

00:55:42.285 --> 00:55:42.735
I'm good.

00:55:45.255 --> 00:55:45.875
You know, I

00:55:49.035 --> 00:55:54.165
actually, I want to thank you today
for this opportunity because this has

00:55:54.165 --> 00:56:00.015
very little to do with us, and it's
just us sharing our story and hopefully

00:56:00.765 --> 00:56:07.935
investing in others through what we've
learned in life, sharing our experiences.

00:56:08.085 --> 00:56:13.425
I mean, and, and I've gotta check myself
too in this, that we're not always right

00:56:13.425 --> 00:56:14.595
about everything that we do in life.

00:56:15.315 --> 00:56:16.185
We make mistakes.

00:56:16.575 --> 00:56:18.345
My advice is not gonna be for everyone.

00:56:18.735 --> 00:56:22.515
My story is not going to be
for everyone, but the beauty.

00:56:22.924 --> 00:56:27.060
In having, you know, connection with
others, in listening to others and their

00:56:27.060 --> 00:56:29.759
perspectives is where we can really grow.

00:56:29.819 --> 00:56:33.270
And I think you and what you're
doing here in having that ability

00:56:33.270 --> 00:56:35.640
to ask those tough questions, right?

00:56:36.120 --> 00:56:41.279
To try and bridge the gap between two
people to be like, okay, I now understand

00:56:41.640 --> 00:56:43.140
a little bit more about mental health.

00:56:43.950 --> 00:56:47.339
Cuz I think too, with mental health,
mental health is viewed from so

00:56:47.339 --> 00:56:49.740
many different angles, right?

00:56:49.770 --> 00:56:54.660
There might be preconceived ideas
about what does suicide look like?

00:56:55.470 --> 00:56:57.359
Addiction, what does that look like?

00:56:57.390 --> 00:56:58.380
How do we approach it?

00:56:58.470 --> 00:57:00.390
We might have biases towards those issues.

00:57:00.609 --> 00:57:01.259
Did you have

00:57:01.259 --> 00:57:02.250
Travis Bader: suicidal ideation?

00:57:02.490 --> 00:57:03.000
Nathan Kapler: I did.

00:57:03.359 --> 00:57:03.569
Yeah.

00:57:03.569 --> 00:57:04.589
A hundred percent.

00:57:04.680 --> 00:57:05.730
How did that present itself?

00:57:06.120 --> 00:57:10.230
You know, as a cop, when I first started
my journey, uh, I became reckless.

00:57:10.859 --> 00:57:11.100
Hmm.

00:57:11.580 --> 00:57:14.339
You know, there were certain points where
I should have been protecting myself.

00:57:14.345 --> 00:57:17.370
And instead, you know, somebody would
say, Hey, I'm gonna fight you right now.

00:57:17.370 --> 00:57:18.450
I'm gonna punch you in the face.

00:57:18.455 --> 00:57:18.470
Mm-hmm.

00:57:18.690 --> 00:57:20.910
And I'd say, you get the first shot.

00:57:20.915 --> 00:57:21.270
Mm-hmm.

00:57:21.420 --> 00:57:22.029
Make it count.

00:57:23.290 --> 00:57:23.710
Mm-hmm.

00:57:24.299 --> 00:57:24.630
Right.

00:57:24.779 --> 00:57:25.350
Who does that?

00:57:25.859 --> 00:57:28.799
But by that point, as a cop, I had
gotten so numb and disconnected

00:57:28.805 --> 00:57:30.120
with trying to protect myself.

00:57:30.120 --> 00:57:33.450
I was just at my point where I was
like, okay, do what you gotta do.

00:57:35.190 --> 00:57:35.490
Right.

00:57:35.490 --> 00:57:39.150
I was still willing to show up
and fight, but in the end, any cop

00:57:39.150 --> 00:57:42.750
who's doing the job at the very
beginning would just automatically

00:57:42.750 --> 00:57:44.250
go into, Hey, you're under arrest.

00:57:44.250 --> 00:57:45.270
Like, we're gonna do this right now.

00:57:45.319 --> 00:57:45.670
Right.

00:57:45.839 --> 00:57:48.540
But I'd gotten to a point where
I was like, I'm invincible.

00:57:49.080 --> 00:57:50.400
I'd gotten an ego problem.

00:57:50.520 --> 00:57:51.390
It was very cocky.

00:57:52.740 --> 00:57:53.025
Right.

00:57:53.295 --> 00:57:57.015
And I was starting to walk that
line, that more kind of twisted

00:57:57.015 --> 00:58:03.674
dark line that happens in law
enforcement where you're now numb to

00:58:03.674 --> 00:58:07.665
your own idea of being safe at home.

00:58:08.595 --> 00:58:12.795
There was, there was many moments where
you have thoughts of, and suicide.

00:58:13.015 --> 00:58:15.765
You, when you talk about suicide
with people, you always ask them,

00:58:15.770 --> 00:58:18.525
Hey, have you ever had, uh, have
you ever had suicidal thoughts?

00:58:18.525 --> 00:58:20.355
Everybody right away says,
Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

00:58:20.835 --> 00:58:24.465
And I think where people's minds can
go to at certain moments with that is,

00:58:24.465 --> 00:58:27.315
you know, have you actually had the
thought of trying to harm yourself?

00:58:27.345 --> 00:58:30.755
That end stage suicidal thought,
though, can be something as minor as,

00:58:30.775 --> 00:58:34.125
Hey, I'm really struggling in life
right now with this painful event.

00:58:34.125 --> 00:58:35.295
I don't know how to walk through it.

00:58:35.299 --> 00:58:36.765
I I don't really wanna be here anymore.

00:58:37.185 --> 00:58:37.545
Hmm.

00:58:37.755 --> 00:58:41.115
It can be very, something
just kind of quiet too.

00:58:41.535 --> 00:58:41.835
Right.

00:58:41.835 --> 00:58:45.495
And that's, that's the brain
just expressing and sending a,

00:58:45.500 --> 00:58:46.515
almost like a warning flare.

00:58:46.545 --> 00:58:48.435
Like, Hey, you're going through
something significant, some

00:58:48.440 --> 00:58:49.505
serious pain and suffering.

00:58:49.575 --> 00:58:53.805
There's no shame in, uh, acknowledging
that, but we have shame around

00:58:53.805 --> 00:58:57.495
trying to express that and let it
out and ask for help from others.

00:58:57.884 --> 00:59:01.515
So, suicidal ideation for me at
the time, uh, when I was going

00:59:01.515 --> 00:59:04.785
through some of the pain was, you
know, I was also socially isolated.

00:59:05.115 --> 00:59:08.115
Uh, sometimes after work I would
just lock myself in a room cuz I

00:59:08.115 --> 00:59:09.735
felt I needed time to decompress.

00:59:09.855 --> 00:59:10.245
Mm-hmm.

00:59:10.875 --> 00:59:11.115
Right.

00:59:11.115 --> 00:59:12.855
And that's when some of those
thoughts would happen, right.

00:59:12.855 --> 00:59:16.185
Where you're alone and you're like,
holy man, like, life is tough.

00:59:17.475 --> 00:59:19.335
What would it be like if
I wasn't here anymore?

00:59:20.505 --> 00:59:20.865
Right.

00:59:21.105 --> 00:59:23.775
And some of those thoughts
absolutely happened for me.

00:59:23.775 --> 00:59:25.065
I have no shame to talk about it.

00:59:25.125 --> 00:59:28.845
It it's a very normal response to,
again, if you go through enough

00:59:28.995 --> 00:59:32.865
significant stuff in life, you're
going to have those thoughts.

00:59:33.195 --> 00:59:34.845
They're very normal now.

00:59:34.845 --> 00:59:35.655
They're not healthy.

00:59:36.525 --> 00:59:36.735
Right.

00:59:36.735 --> 00:59:38.055
We've gotta take action on those.

00:59:40.965 --> 00:59:44.505
Travis Bader: So you're talking
about numbing and numbing to

00:59:44.565 --> 00:59:46.605
people and losing trust in people.

00:59:47.384 --> 00:59:53.235
I remember I was passenger driving back
from the range friend, uh, near his

00:59:53.895 --> 01:00:00.915
end of term with law enforcement and
there's a, uh, vehicle catches fire up

01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:06.075
ahead of us and, uh, it was a, uh, Jeep,
uh, pickup truck and the whole thing

01:00:06.134 --> 01:00:11.835
basically blows up and, uh, guy comes out
and he's all sined up and everything's

01:00:11.835 --> 01:00:13.485
melting off and like pulling over.

01:00:13.485 --> 01:00:14.384
Let's help him out, right?

01:00:14.475 --> 01:00:16.035
He's like, Nope, nope,
I don't wanna be late.

01:00:16.040 --> 01:00:17.206
Just leave it for someone else.

01:00:17.211 --> 01:00:24.255
And, and there's a level of
callousness that can come into those

01:00:24.255 --> 01:00:27.765
who work as first responders and
I'm looking at him like, you know,

01:00:27.884 --> 01:00:29.384
at least get this guy off the row.

01:00:29.384 --> 01:00:30.105
He's walking around.

01:00:30.110 --> 01:00:31.725
Someone else is gonna hit him in these.

01:00:31.725 --> 01:00:36.285
Um, but uh, how do you deal with that?

01:00:36.290 --> 01:00:38.145
Because it sounds like you
had to deal with that and

01:00:38.145 --> 01:00:39.555
there's a bit of a disconnect.

01:00:39.795 --> 01:00:43.245
How do you get that reconnection
back to humanity if you're to be

01:00:43.605 --> 01:00:48.045
able to get in line with that Harvard
study of having those strong social

01:00:48.045 --> 01:00:48.615
Nathan Kapler: connections?

01:00:50.580 --> 01:00:52.080
Getting into policing.

01:00:52.080 --> 01:00:57.120
You walk in as one of the most
compassionate people out there,

01:00:57.360 --> 01:00:58.650
they hire you on that alone.

01:00:58.710 --> 01:01:01.410
You have to have that empathy,
that compassion, because you're

01:01:01.410 --> 01:01:03.870
gonna be dealing with the most
vulnerable level of society.

01:01:03.870 --> 01:01:07.390
That 1% that is just going through
something so significant that when

01:01:07.650 --> 01:01:11.610
you walk into those shoes, you have
no idea what what's really going on

01:01:11.610 --> 01:01:12.930
or what this world even looks like.

01:01:12.930 --> 01:01:14.610
There's nothing that
can prepare you for it.

01:01:14.970 --> 01:01:16.590
Even if you watch Rookie Blue, right?

01:01:16.590 --> 01:01:20.100
Like nothing's gonna get you ready
for the the downtown east side, right?

01:01:20.105 --> 01:01:20.130
Mm.

01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:23.550
Being down there really immersed in,
okay, what's really going on here?

01:01:23.550 --> 01:01:26.630
Not just a simple hello, but
now we're interacting with you.

01:01:26.810 --> 01:01:29.460
Now we're seeing what this looks like.

01:01:29.490 --> 01:01:33.750
Now we're seeing and feeling what this
looks like to be a cop interacting with

01:01:33.750 --> 01:01:35.310
someone who has significant issues.

01:01:36.330 --> 01:01:40.200
And what was the question

01:01:40.200 --> 01:01:40.410
Travis Bader: again?

01:01:41.250 --> 01:01:43.080
How do you get that
reconnection here with humanity?

01:01:43.110 --> 01:01:43.470
Yeah.

01:01:43.500 --> 01:01:44.640
Nathan Kapler: Compassion fatigue.

01:01:44.640 --> 01:01:46.680
So yeah, sorry, where I was going, the.

01:01:48.240 --> 01:01:53.400
Walking in as a police officer, I had that
ability, but over time I had lost that

01:01:53.400 --> 01:01:58.350
ability to have the compassion cuz I hit
compassion, burnout, compassion fatigue.

01:01:58.500 --> 01:02:01.319
And I just, I remember sitting
there one day and I was like,

01:02:01.319 --> 01:02:04.290
I walked into the office and I
was like, I don't care anymore.

01:02:04.340 --> 01:02:04.560
Mm.

01:02:05.009 --> 01:02:06.640
I don't care about anyone anymore.

01:02:07.140 --> 01:02:10.470
And I actually was angry with
people because I had went

01:02:10.470 --> 01:02:12.150
through something on the podcast.

01:02:12.150 --> 01:02:14.250
I share this story about where
I had to put a horse down.

01:02:14.299 --> 01:02:14.520
Mm.

01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:17.520
Possibly a drunk driver hit a
horse, left him in the ditch.

01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:19.290
We ended up getting
called out in the morning.

01:02:19.319 --> 01:02:20.970
I had to put this horse down.

01:02:20.975 --> 01:02:24.090
This horse was left, the
beautiful horse was left in the

01:02:24.095 --> 01:02:25.500
ditch to suffer all night long.

01:02:25.540 --> 01:02:28.290
How could a human being
do this to an animal?

01:02:28.350 --> 01:02:28.770
Hmm.

01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:29.160
Right.

01:02:29.160 --> 01:02:34.920
I kind of understood how humans could
be, you know, manipulative or, um, they

01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:37.440
could wanna harm other human beings.

01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:42.540
But to see an animal who's done nothing
to anyone, be left in that condition.

01:02:42.540 --> 01:02:44.940
I remember that was the moment
for me where I hit compassion

01:02:44.940 --> 01:02:46.410
burnout in compassion fatigue.

01:02:46.500 --> 01:02:50.160
And I got to a place where not only
did I not hold compassion for people,

01:02:50.730 --> 01:02:55.259
but I also hated them for what they
were capable of doing in the world.

01:02:56.109 --> 01:02:59.475
And I think that too is a very
dangerous place as a man or or woman.

01:03:00.285 --> 01:03:03.404
So how do you, how do
you get through that?

01:03:03.884 --> 01:03:05.654
Again, very much like a broken leg.

01:03:05.660 --> 01:03:07.845
You've gotta acknowledge, okay, I'm here.

01:03:08.234 --> 01:03:10.605
I have comp, uh, compassion fatigue.

01:03:10.725 --> 01:03:13.825
And I don't think there's any shame
with finally hitting that place in

01:03:13.825 --> 01:03:18.315
those roles in society because we're
not ready to deal with that level.

01:03:18.315 --> 01:03:21.134
Like no one's taught us about,
Hey, this is what compassion

01:03:21.134 --> 01:03:22.365
fatigue is gonna look like.

01:03:23.174 --> 01:03:24.794
You're not armed with any knowledge.

01:03:24.825 --> 01:03:26.984
So you kind of just end up
stumbling on this place where

01:03:26.990 --> 01:03:28.065
you go, yeah, I'm burnt out.

01:03:28.245 --> 01:03:30.315
Mm, I don't have compassion anymore.

01:03:30.645 --> 01:03:32.305
I've never been here
before to this degree.

01:03:32.384 --> 01:03:33.825
I don't know what this looks like.

01:03:34.214 --> 01:03:36.674
I don't know how to explain
what I'm experiencing.

01:03:37.035 --> 01:03:40.845
I don't know how to ask for help or even
deal with just this little compassion

01:03:40.845 --> 01:03:42.524
fatigue thing that I'm going through.

01:03:43.245 --> 01:03:48.975
So over time, all of these issues
blended and blended into PTs D becoming a

01:03:48.975 --> 01:03:50.705
diagnosis for me and things getting worse.

01:03:51.085 --> 01:03:55.214
But ultimately I was able to start to
teach myself, okay, this is what it

01:03:55.214 --> 01:03:57.705
means to become compassionate again.

01:03:58.185 --> 01:04:01.665
And a big part of, I think the journey
was something that I touched on was

01:04:01.665 --> 01:04:05.955
trying to figure out how to forgive
people, the ones that hurt you the most.

01:04:06.705 --> 01:04:07.065
Hmm.

01:04:07.245 --> 01:04:08.175
And I just said, you know what?

01:04:08.475 --> 01:04:11.415
If there's anywhere I should start,
I should try to start building

01:04:11.415 --> 01:04:13.005
compassion for those people.

01:04:13.245 --> 01:04:15.315
I had been through enough, with
enough people at that point.

01:04:15.315 --> 01:04:17.805
I kind of knew the, the main
people in my life that had hurt me.

01:04:17.805 --> 01:04:17.865
Hmm.

01:04:18.135 --> 01:04:19.095
And I kind of said, you know what?

01:04:19.095 --> 01:04:22.665
Instead of looking at them and being
angry or having blame or, you know,

01:04:22.665 --> 01:04:25.786
trying to place guilt on them for
what they had done, how do I just

01:04:26.055 --> 01:04:27.435
approach this and say, you know what?

01:04:27.435 --> 01:04:29.355
I'm gonna build compassion
towards that person.

01:04:29.355 --> 01:04:32.535
I'm not gonna express it to that person,
but I'm just gonna build it and forgive,

01:04:32.745 --> 01:04:36.225
not forgive them, but allow myself to
have forgiveness so that I can walk

01:04:36.225 --> 01:04:39.825
through this and let it go, and still
have compassion to that individual for

01:04:39.825 --> 01:04:40.995
what they were going through their life.

01:04:40.995 --> 01:04:45.495
And understand their story from
their perspective in that moment.

01:04:45.765 --> 01:04:49.665
Because once you do that, you
actually start to see kind of again,

01:04:50.505 --> 01:04:51.975
it has very little to do with you.

01:04:52.175 --> 01:04:52.395
Mm.

01:04:52.875 --> 01:04:54.885
It's what they're struggling
with in that moment.

01:04:55.455 --> 01:04:58.485
And now all of a sudden you're building
compassion for others and you're starting

01:04:58.485 --> 01:05:00.465
to invite empathy back into your world.

01:05:00.555 --> 01:05:02.515
And you're starting to reconnect
and you're starting to have

01:05:02.515 --> 01:05:04.125
those social connections again.

01:05:04.125 --> 01:05:06.255
And you're really starting
to pour that care into others

01:05:06.525 --> 01:05:07.995
and yourself at the same time.

01:05:07.995 --> 01:05:11.925
So it's a slow process and I think
you kind of, I think everybody can ask

01:05:11.925 --> 01:05:15.435
themselves those hard questions of, okay,
where is my level of compassion right now?

01:05:15.465 --> 01:05:18.195
And that's usually one thing that I
really ask myself at the beginning of

01:05:18.200 --> 01:05:19.905
the day, where is my level of compassion?

01:05:20.025 --> 01:05:21.916
And if it's not in a great place,
I know I gotta do some work.

01:05:22.859 --> 01:05:22.950
Do

01:05:22.950 --> 01:05:26.129
Travis Bader: you find that there's a
common thread as you look through from

01:05:26.189 --> 01:05:29.939
childhood to where you are now, a common
thread that you've been able to identify

01:05:29.939 --> 01:05:35.310
for, uh, different moments, whether
you've invited them into your life

01:05:35.339 --> 01:05:43.259
knowingly or not, or, um, I mean, you
talk about compassion and forgiveness.

01:05:45.060 --> 01:05:48.450
You're not gonna want to be at a
point where you now all of a sudden

01:05:48.450 --> 01:05:50.040
find that in your life again.

01:05:50.040 --> 01:05:52.560
So you're probably gonna want
to put up some mental barriers

01:05:52.560 --> 01:05:54.089
as well, some little flags.

01:05:54.149 --> 01:05:57.660
Oh, I can see a pattern similarity
to what I've seen in the past.

01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:02.279
Like you, there's gonna be a certain
level of vi vigilance that's required,

01:06:03.569 --> 01:06:06.750
not over vigilance, but there's gonna
be a certain level of vi vigilance.

01:06:06.750 --> 01:06:09.120
Have you been able to
identify an ongoing pattern?

01:06:09.990 --> 01:06:12.450
Nathan Kapler: One of the really
interesting things that I learned along

01:06:12.450 --> 01:06:14.730
this journey is I sucked at boundaries.

01:06:15.419 --> 01:06:15.990
Hmm.

01:06:16.470 --> 01:06:17.189
So much.

01:06:17.189 --> 01:06:19.470
So I let everyone in.

01:06:20.009 --> 01:06:20.339
Hmm.

01:06:20.970 --> 01:06:22.919
You know, good bad in the middle.

01:06:23.009 --> 01:06:23.850
I let them all in.

01:06:24.359 --> 01:06:29.759
Now, some people out there are definitely
very hurt, and there could be a connection

01:06:29.759 --> 01:06:32.730
that is formed with that person where
they're gonna now try to hurt you.

01:06:33.089 --> 01:06:36.600
I worked with a narcissist sociopath that
was going through some very significant

01:06:36.605 --> 01:06:38.040
issues, and those had issues on me.

01:06:38.399 --> 01:06:38.730
Hmm.

01:06:38.879 --> 01:06:41.460
And instead of in the moment
addressing it and having a boundary

01:06:41.460 --> 01:06:43.799
and saying, no, you're not gonna be
a part of my life, professional or

01:06:43.805 --> 01:06:46.169
personal, I allowed it to continue.

01:06:47.160 --> 01:06:49.890
And over time, that eroded my own health.

01:06:50.295 --> 01:06:52.935
Because of the stress of the environment
and what that individual was going

01:06:52.935 --> 01:06:53.985
through and putting me through.

01:06:54.705 --> 01:06:55.035
Right.

01:06:55.935 --> 01:07:00.015
So I think over time I've learned that
very crucial lesson that I'm now a

01:07:00.015 --> 01:07:02.085
lot more selective on who I led in.

01:07:04.575 --> 01:07:05.745
Travis Bader: Is that not a circle though?

01:07:06.285 --> 01:07:13.155
Is that not a level of vigilance and not,
obviously there's a balance between trying

01:07:13.155 --> 01:07:16.575
to have those social connections and
let people into your life and be able to

01:07:16.575 --> 01:07:22.785
share and who you're now there's gonna be
a judging process on everybody you meet.

01:07:23.685 --> 01:07:27.435
Nathan Kapler: Uh, I, I don't think it's
as much of a, uh, like a filter where

01:07:27.440 --> 01:07:28.905
you either get to come in or you don't.

01:07:28.905 --> 01:07:28.906
Mm-hmm.

01:07:28.935 --> 01:07:32.325
Uh, I let everyone come in, but
for the most part, if there is

01:07:32.325 --> 01:07:35.925
really unhealthy behaviors there,
I just don't get that close.

01:07:36.285 --> 01:07:38.715
Cuz there's no point
in, in that for, for me.

01:07:38.715 --> 01:07:38.955
Right.

01:07:38.955 --> 01:07:43.155
To get that close to you, I'll help you,
I'll tell you, Hey, you're not doing well.

01:07:43.335 --> 01:07:43.635
Right.

01:07:43.635 --> 01:07:45.915
Instead of just sweeping it under
the rug and saying, yeah, we can

01:07:45.915 --> 01:07:48.375
have this personal connection or
professional, or whatever the case is.

01:07:48.825 --> 01:07:49.095
Hmm.

01:07:49.215 --> 01:07:52.095
But in order to protect yourself as
a man, protect what you're building,

01:07:52.095 --> 01:07:54.195
your family, your children, everything.

01:07:54.465 --> 01:07:57.465
I think as men, as we age and we
get a little bit older, we get very

01:07:57.465 --> 01:08:01.245
good at spotting people who are,
you know, struggling to a degree

01:08:01.305 --> 01:08:02.865
and we can say, Hey, we love you.

01:08:02.985 --> 01:08:03.825
We support you.

01:08:04.005 --> 01:08:05.265
Keep working on yourself.

01:08:05.385 --> 01:08:06.415
One day we'll have a better connection.

01:08:06.715 --> 01:08:09.135
But for right now, I got
other stuff going on.

01:08:09.405 --> 01:08:09.645
Hmm.

01:08:09.915 --> 01:08:10.215
Right.

01:08:10.305 --> 01:08:12.855
And it's more of a, I still, because
I don't, I don't look at people

01:08:12.855 --> 01:08:13.725
and I say, I don't accept you.

01:08:13.730 --> 01:08:15.465
I try to accept everyone because.

01:08:15.810 --> 01:08:19.290
We're all going through something
in life, and everyone deserves an

01:08:19.290 --> 01:08:22.710
opportunity to grow and to shift
outta whatever they're experiencing.

01:08:22.710 --> 01:08:23.790
I truly believe that.

01:08:24.270 --> 01:08:29.910
But for me, I've got enough going on
in, in my world now that I try to focus

01:08:29.915 --> 01:08:33.420
more on, okay, who are the men and the
people in my life that are gonna help me

01:08:33.420 --> 01:08:39.000
to grow and really stay, uh, in a mode
of success and challenge myself, uh, to

01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:43.800
continue to grow and while I reach back
and I lend a, a helping hand through

01:08:43.800 --> 01:08:45.810
the podcast and different other means.

01:08:46.109 --> 01:08:49.859
You've gotta kind of have that balancing
act of having these boundaries now and

01:08:49.865 --> 01:08:56.130
learning when to say, Hey, sorry if I
step back and I move in that direction

01:08:56.130 --> 01:08:59.850
with you, I take away from my progress.

01:09:00.090 --> 01:09:00.479
Hmm.

01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:01.200
Right.

01:09:01.205 --> 01:09:02.609
So I'm moving forward.

01:09:02.609 --> 01:09:04.080
You can come on this journey with me.

01:09:04.085 --> 01:09:06.660
It's your choice, but

01:09:07.740 --> 01:09:11.430
Travis Bader: it it, it feels like
you've made incredible progress

01:09:11.700 --> 01:09:14.520
over, what has it been four years

01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:14.790
Nathan Kapler: now?

01:09:15.359 --> 01:09:16.319
3, 2, 3.

01:09:16.910 --> 01:09:19.979
Travis Bader: It, it feels like you've
made incredible progress over a couple

01:09:19.979 --> 01:09:24.479
of years to be able to talk about
these things openly and articulately.

01:09:25.590 --> 01:09:27.750
What areas are still
of a challenge to you?

01:09:29.970 --> 01:09:33.660
Nathan Kapler: Uh, that's
a really good question.

01:09:41.640 --> 01:09:43.020
I've gotten really good.

01:09:44.325 --> 01:09:49.005
At connecting with others and
putting myself out there and

01:09:49.005 --> 01:09:50.595
developing a social connection.

01:09:51.465 --> 01:09:57.195
I'm still incredibly hard on
myself that first thought of,

01:09:57.285 --> 01:09:58.755
should I do this or should I not?

01:09:58.815 --> 01:09:59.595
Is always there.

01:10:00.255 --> 01:10:02.925
I'm always gonna say, no,
you're not gonna do a good job.

01:10:02.995 --> 01:10:04.126
No, nobody's gonna listen.

01:10:04.235 --> 01:10:05.335
No, you don't have value.

01:10:05.715 --> 01:10:05.985
Right?

01:10:06.045 --> 01:10:07.605
Those are the tricks that
mine tries to tell you.

01:10:07.605 --> 01:10:09.945
Even driving in here today, I was
excited to sit down and do this

01:10:09.945 --> 01:10:12.945
with you, but at the same time it's
like, is this gonna be a good thing?

01:10:14.085 --> 01:10:14.505
Right?

01:10:14.565 --> 01:10:17.715
We always have that little, that
little voice in the back of our heads.

01:10:18.075 --> 01:10:23.625
So I'm trying to reinforce in my own
journey now, not listening to that

01:10:23.625 --> 01:10:28.935
voice, acknowledging it, but at least
overriding it and saying, Hey, you're

01:10:28.935 --> 01:10:31.545
allowed to be there, but it's wrong.

01:10:32.235 --> 01:10:32.625
Hmm.

01:10:33.855 --> 01:10:34.395
I like that.

01:10:34.400 --> 01:10:39.525
And, and I'm finding now that cuz we
all, we have 60,000 thoughts a day.

01:10:40.935 --> 01:10:41.715
Is that what it is?

01:10:42.585 --> 01:10:45.015
Are 30,000 of those, the ones
that are screaming in the

01:10:45.015 --> 01:10:46.185
background, Hey, don't do this.

01:10:46.185 --> 01:10:47.025
You're not good enough.

01:10:47.055 --> 01:10:49.125
Uh, you're gonna be a failure,
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:10:49.485 --> 01:10:52.785
I, I've now started to accept that
and just say, you know, who cares?

01:10:52.790 --> 01:10:53.565
What if you fail?

01:10:54.225 --> 01:10:58.335
What if I show up today and I do this
with you, and it's a complete flop?

01:11:00.315 --> 01:11:01.335
It doesn't matter.

01:11:01.335 --> 01:11:04.065
I feel fantastic cuz I'm getting
it out and I don't know if you

01:11:04.065 --> 01:11:05.715
feel fantastic doing this episode.

01:11:05.865 --> 01:11:06.375
Oh, I love it.

01:11:06.465 --> 01:11:07.125
I hope so.

01:11:07.245 --> 01:11:07.575
Oh yeah.

01:11:07.665 --> 01:11:08.054
Right.

01:11:08.264 --> 01:11:09.285
But that's all that matters.

01:11:09.285 --> 01:11:11.264
Just showing up and doing the hard work.

01:11:11.264 --> 01:11:15.105
Like yeah, we're, we're investing our
time into giving back value to others.

01:11:15.105 --> 01:11:17.956
But at the same time, like I'm
sitting down at a table with you.

01:11:18.224 --> 01:11:19.215
A hundred percent connected.

01:11:19.695 --> 01:11:20.625
A hundred percent connected.

01:11:22.934 --> 01:11:24.495
Travis Bader: I like that analogy.

01:11:24.525 --> 01:11:26.985
Uh, Seb Lavo, he's been on
the podcast in the past.

01:11:26.985 --> 01:11:28.815
He's xrcmp as well.

01:11:29.474 --> 01:11:33.075
He gave the analogy of
the, uh, the Wolf You feed.

01:11:33.195 --> 01:11:34.245
I think you've probably heard that one.

01:11:34.250 --> 01:11:34.575
Right.

01:11:34.995 --> 01:11:38.205
And he says, um, you gotta feed 'em both.

01:11:39.165 --> 01:11:40.605
You gotta recognize
that they're both there.

01:11:40.605 --> 01:11:41.175
Feed 'em both.

01:11:41.175 --> 01:11:45.585
Otherwise you're gonna have one that's
ravenous and then you've got a problem.

01:11:46.125 --> 01:11:46.934
Nathan Kapler: Absolutely.

01:11:47.085 --> 01:11:47.684
Absolutely.

01:11:47.684 --> 01:11:51.375
I think I, at certain points in my life,
I've tried to completely eliminate.

01:11:51.405 --> 01:11:54.795
And again, we're now hinging on that
theme of when we avoid or deny Hmm.

01:11:55.215 --> 01:11:56.075
That creates a bigger issue.

01:11:56.825 --> 01:12:02.865
When we can accept that two thoughts
happen at the same time, we're

01:12:02.865 --> 01:12:05.985
gonna kick ass on this podcast
or it's gonna be a complete flop.

01:12:06.434 --> 01:12:07.695
You acknowledge both.

01:12:07.700 --> 01:12:07.764
Mm-hmm.

01:12:07.844 --> 01:12:10.764
But you turn to the one that says,
it's gonna be a fucking fantastic

01:12:10.764 --> 01:12:13.245
podcast and we're gonna show up
and we're just gonna do our best.

01:12:13.304 --> 01:12:13.485
Mm-hmm.

01:12:13.485 --> 01:12:14.445
And that's all we can ask of ourselves.

01:12:15.625 --> 01:12:19.665
You water that seed instead and
that one takes off like a shot.

01:12:19.755 --> 01:12:20.535
That one's still there.

01:12:20.535 --> 01:12:21.375
It's doing its thing.

01:12:21.434 --> 01:12:21.825
Sure.

01:12:21.974 --> 01:12:22.844
But you're not letting it win.

01:12:22.995 --> 01:12:23.175
Travis Bader: Yeah.

01:12:24.344 --> 01:12:26.804
What's been your biggest aha
moment through this whole process?

01:12:27.144 --> 01:12:27.264
I.

01:12:29.205 --> 01:12:32.265
Nathan Kapler: There were so many
points in this journey where I

01:12:32.265 --> 01:12:38.055
thought, I am th this, this journey
that, that I'm on is not normal.

01:12:38.355 --> 01:12:44.085
That I am so broken, that I'm of no value.

01:12:46.695 --> 01:12:50.435
And again, very hard on myself.

01:12:50.775 --> 01:12:51.975
I fed that other wolf.

01:12:52.275 --> 01:12:53.685
I didn't feed the other seed.

01:12:53.895 --> 01:12:54.105
Right.

01:12:54.105 --> 01:12:54.765
The good one.

01:12:54.770 --> 01:12:55.725
I fed the bad one.

01:12:55.875 --> 01:12:57.105
Not the bad one, but the other one.

01:12:57.135 --> 01:12:57.375
Right.

01:12:57.405 --> 01:12:58.815
There's no bad thing in life.

01:12:58.815 --> 01:12:58.905
Sure.

01:12:59.055 --> 01:12:59.355
Right.

01:13:00.825 --> 01:13:02.985
Travis Bader: There is neither good
nor bad, but thinking makes it so

01:13:04.125 --> 01:13:04.695
Nathan Kapler: a hundred percent.

01:13:05.445 --> 01:13:10.695
And I remember just being so incredibly
hard on myself and so defeated and so,

01:13:12.345 --> 01:13:15.735
so just headed in the wrong direction.

01:13:16.965 --> 01:13:21.015
And when I finally started to
recognize my, and you touched on

01:13:21.020 --> 01:13:25.395
this, no one's gonna show up and
save you on this journey in life.

01:13:27.315 --> 01:13:28.245
It comes from within.

01:13:28.365 --> 01:13:28.545
Mm-hmm.

01:13:29.855 --> 01:13:31.815
You gotta show up and
you gotta save yourself.

01:13:32.385 --> 01:13:32.535
Mm-hmm.

01:13:33.345 --> 01:13:39.465
And you gotta start watering the right
seeds, feeding the right wolves, hanging

01:13:39.465 --> 01:13:43.845
out with the right people, really making
sure you're using your time appropriately.

01:13:45.045 --> 01:13:45.375
Right.

01:13:45.525 --> 01:13:46.695
Keeping the blade sharp.

01:13:47.685 --> 01:13:48.345
Don't chase comfort.

01:13:49.205 --> 01:13:49.955
Chase discomfort.

01:13:50.095 --> 01:13:50.515
Mm-hmm.

01:13:51.675 --> 01:13:55.425
And find that path, that one that
we always run from and hide from.

01:13:56.595 --> 01:14:01.575
Take that road and it'll lead you to the
fastest, most amazing amount of growth

01:14:01.575 --> 01:14:02.835
that you'll ever go through in life.

01:14:04.185 --> 01:14:08.565
And that, for me was kind of the
aha moment where there were many

01:14:08.570 --> 01:14:13.125
times in rehab where I would always
tell one therapist just giving me

01:14:13.125 --> 01:14:14.445
the pill to make this all better.

01:14:14.805 --> 01:14:15.286
So many people

01:14:15.555 --> 01:14:17.505
Travis Bader: are like that, right?

01:14:17.505 --> 01:14:20.565
That's our society is based on this.

01:14:20.625 --> 01:14:20.895
Yeah.

01:14:20.895 --> 01:14:21.615
There's this one thing.

01:14:21.620 --> 01:14:22.455
It'll make you happy.

01:14:22.485 --> 01:14:23.205
Yeah, it'll be good.

01:14:23.265 --> 01:14:23.625
Give me

01:14:23.625 --> 01:14:24.435
Nathan Kapler: that one thing.

01:14:24.675 --> 01:14:24.975
Right?

01:14:25.005 --> 01:14:26.085
I just need that one thing.

01:14:26.085 --> 01:14:26.715
Fix me.

01:14:26.925 --> 01:14:27.135
Hmm.

01:14:27.585 --> 01:14:30.765
I was basically screaming that at the
top of my lungs while I was there, and

01:14:30.765 --> 01:14:32.795
she turned to me and said, Nate, we're
not gonna do a damn thing for you.

01:14:33.075 --> 01:14:34.065
You're gonna do it for yourself.

01:14:34.070 --> 01:14:34.395
Mm-hmm.

01:14:34.535 --> 01:14:37.665
And I was like, oh, I
don't like this naturally.

01:14:38.055 --> 01:14:39.735
But again, you learn.

01:14:40.365 --> 01:14:40.785
You learn.

01:14:40.785 --> 01:14:44.745
You've gotta discover how you work,
how you tick, what your experiences

01:14:44.745 --> 01:14:48.615
are, why they're there in such a way,
and what they make you think and feel,

01:14:48.615 --> 01:14:51.375
and how you respond behaviorally to
these things that you've learned.

01:14:51.375 --> 01:14:55.515
You've gotta unlearn it and then
dig in and find the key that says,

01:14:55.515 --> 01:14:56.505
okay, how do we do it differently?

01:14:56.505 --> 01:14:56.685
Now?

01:14:57.375 --> 01:14:58.245
I really

01:14:58.305 --> 01:15:01.785
Travis Bader: like that sense of
personal agency, cuz that seems to

01:15:01.785 --> 01:15:04.305
be a stripped away from most people.

01:15:04.785 --> 01:15:06.135
There's a pill you can take.

01:15:06.285 --> 01:15:07.605
There's a special thing you can do.

01:15:07.605 --> 01:15:08.815
You can put your trust in someone else.

01:15:09.075 --> 01:15:11.865
This magical program that you can
do will make you fit, will make you

01:15:12.315 --> 01:15:15.255
attractive, will make you smart,
will make you whatever it might be.

01:15:16.365 --> 01:15:17.265
But none of it's true.

01:15:17.730 --> 01:15:18.000
No.

01:15:18.090 --> 01:15:21.360
We have that own personal agency in
ourselves and that's the one thing that

01:15:21.360 --> 01:15:27.030
I've seen been eroded in our society
to a very great degree for a long time,

01:15:27.030 --> 01:15:28.710
for a multitude of different reasons.

01:15:29.130 --> 01:15:33.870
But if people can just realize the level
of personal agency they have to affect

01:15:33.870 --> 01:15:37.559
change in themselves, which in turn
will affect change in those around them,

01:15:38.309 --> 01:15:40.769
man, you can do some pretty cool things.

01:15:41.010 --> 01:15:41.670
Absolutely.

01:15:42.210 --> 01:15:42.510
Nathan Kapler: Right.

01:15:42.720 --> 01:15:43.530
Absolutely.

01:15:43.620 --> 01:15:48.450
The level of intensity that you can now
bring to people and help them grow, right?

01:15:48.450 --> 01:15:51.510
By showing them how
you've found your own way.

01:15:51.930 --> 01:15:54.390
It's not a pill, it's not a workout plan.

01:15:54.390 --> 01:15:55.530
Well, it is kind of a workout plan.

01:15:55.530 --> 01:15:56.550
I gotta workout right To stay.

01:15:56.550 --> 01:15:57.420
Well, surely.

01:15:57.420 --> 01:15:57.690
Sure.

01:15:57.690 --> 01:15:57.990
Right?

01:15:58.410 --> 01:16:00.059
But it's nothing gimmicky.

01:16:00.059 --> 01:16:03.300
You gotta spend the time and do the
hard work on yourself in order to

01:16:03.305 --> 01:16:06.000
get to a place where you can finally
start to step forward and say,

01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:08.700
Hey, you know, I'm doing better.

01:16:09.450 --> 01:16:10.980
I had to solve this problem.

01:16:11.849 --> 01:16:16.440
Not the person that did this to me,
not expecting someone else to show up.

01:16:16.620 --> 01:16:16.800
Mm-hmm.

01:16:17.490 --> 01:16:19.140
It was me all along.

01:16:19.440 --> 01:16:20.910
I've got to do this.

01:16:21.300 --> 01:16:24.809
And that was, that was for
me, definitely my aha moment.

01:16:24.809 --> 01:16:25.019
Right?

01:16:25.019 --> 01:16:26.220
No doctor's gonna save you.

01:16:26.224 --> 01:16:26.460
Mm-hmm.

01:16:26.540 --> 01:16:27.450
You are your doctor.

01:16:27.455 --> 01:16:27.700
Mm-hmm.

01:16:27.820 --> 01:16:28.380
What do you need?

01:16:29.460 --> 01:16:29.970
Start doing it.

01:16:31.080 --> 01:16:31.950
Travis Bader: And that's massive.

01:16:32.280 --> 01:16:36.059
You go to a doctor, they
come out, they say whatever.

01:16:36.059 --> 01:16:39.480
Maybe you connect, maybe you don't, and
you leave and you say, I didn't connect.

01:16:39.480 --> 01:16:40.320
Doctors don't work.

01:16:40.320 --> 01:16:40.650
Right.

01:16:41.160 --> 01:16:43.260
Maybe they do connect, and if
they do connect, all they're

01:16:43.260 --> 01:16:45.090
gonna tell you is you're fine.

01:16:45.809 --> 01:16:47.400
There's some things you
gotta work through right now.

01:16:47.639 --> 01:16:48.780
Here's some tools you can use.

01:16:49.650 --> 01:16:50.219
Are you doing them?

01:16:51.330 --> 01:16:52.710
It's, it's all on you.

01:16:53.820 --> 01:17:00.330
A uh, friend of mine, ex British
military, and um, he, uh, what was it?

01:17:00.335 --> 01:17:02.010
He said limit substances.

01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:06.030
Exercise, sleep is crucial.

01:17:06.840 --> 01:17:10.110
Um, I think there's one
more point in there, chase.

01:17:10.110 --> 01:17:12.300
I may have missed it, but,
uh, connection people.

01:17:12.900 --> 01:17:13.440
There you go.

01:17:13.440 --> 01:17:14.400
Human connection.

01:17:14.400 --> 01:17:18.750
Have that human connection, like
the formula's pretty simple.

01:17:18.990 --> 01:17:19.559
Very simple.

01:17:20.910 --> 01:17:23.700
But the idea that people, when
they approach this, it seems

01:17:23.700 --> 01:17:25.380
so complex and, and difficult.

01:17:25.380 --> 01:17:29.610
Well, I, I'm drinking because, or I'm,
I'm using drugs because of the difficulty.

01:17:29.610 --> 01:17:32.460
I'm, if only I didn't have that
difficulty, I wouldn't do this.

01:17:32.639 --> 01:17:36.870
I'm not exercising cuz I'm so, I'm just so
damn tired I haven't been able to sleep.

01:17:37.170 --> 01:17:37.500
Right.

01:17:39.210 --> 01:17:40.080
The process is simple.

01:17:40.080 --> 01:17:43.201
At some point you gotta get off your
butt and move and you have to look at

01:17:43.201 --> 01:17:44.550
what you're putting into your body.

01:17:44.550 --> 01:17:46.139
And that was limiting of substances.

01:17:46.139 --> 01:17:46.530
He says.

01:17:46.530 --> 01:17:48.630
Could be, it could be your phone, right?

01:17:48.635 --> 01:17:50.760
It could be a, a social media addiction.

01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:54.300
It could be uh, uh, a number of things.

01:17:55.110 --> 01:17:59.309
Um, the process is simple,
but you gotta take that

01:17:59.315 --> 01:17:59.610
Nathan Kapler: step.

01:18:00.170 --> 01:18:00.810
A hundred percent.

01:18:01.030 --> 01:18:04.470
And, and you touched on something that
I, I try to touch on my podcast too quite

01:18:04.470 --> 01:18:06.450
a bit, is addiction from many people.

01:18:06.450 --> 01:18:09.390
Addiction has such this weird thing,
you ask one person about addiction,

01:18:09.390 --> 01:18:10.590
Hey, what's your perspective on it?

01:18:10.830 --> 01:18:13.860
And you ask a hundred people, you will get
a hundred different answers on addiction.

01:18:13.865 --> 01:18:14.010
Mm-hmm.

01:18:14.090 --> 01:18:15.390
What is it, what degree?

01:18:15.690 --> 01:18:18.150
Uh, I know when I told one of my
friends, I was like, Hey, you know, I

01:18:18.155 --> 01:18:20.040
went through this, this addiction thing.

01:18:20.400 --> 01:18:21.900
Uh, I was active in addiction.

01:18:21.900 --> 01:18:22.140
Right.

01:18:22.140 --> 01:18:23.070
And it was pretty rough.

01:18:23.070 --> 01:18:24.870
There was a lot of nasty stuff coming out.

01:18:24.930 --> 01:18:27.450
And he is like, well, it's not
like you were addicted to heroin.

01:18:27.450 --> 01:18:27.750
Right.

01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:35.250
And I'm like, no, but still not great
to be addicted to medical cannabis.

01:18:35.255 --> 01:18:36.170
Right, right.

01:18:36.710 --> 01:18:39.990
And it was just kind of an interesting
aha moment where I was like, yeah,

01:18:39.990 --> 01:18:43.290
people really, they really have
a different view of addiction.

01:18:43.290 --> 01:18:45.810
And one of the things I try to
showcase on this, and you touched on

01:18:45.810 --> 01:18:48.510
it and I love it, is that addiction
can take so many different forms.

01:18:48.510 --> 01:18:52.530
Pornography, cell phone, the numbing
out, detaching, disassociating.

01:18:52.770 --> 01:18:58.020
You can use so many different things
to, uh, be addicted to, to avoid that

01:18:58.020 --> 01:18:59.820
pain and suffering that's in your life.

01:18:59.880 --> 01:19:00.330
Mm-hmm.

01:19:00.480 --> 01:19:05.310
And if you need to find the key to,
to grow, you need to be able to walk

01:19:05.310 --> 01:19:07.920
towards your pain and suffering,
cuz that's where the key is.

01:19:07.980 --> 01:19:08.340
Mm-hmm.

01:19:09.270 --> 01:19:09.510
Right.

01:19:09.510 --> 01:19:12.240
So that aha moment was definitely
built in the fact that I now

01:19:12.240 --> 01:19:13.790
started to embrace discomfort.

01:19:13.790 --> 01:19:17.940
Everything that I didn't want to do, I
would write down and say, I'm doing that.

01:19:17.940 --> 01:19:20.640
I'm going for that rock,
I'm going for that workout.

01:19:20.880 --> 01:19:23.550
I'm gonna start talking about
my emotions and start a podcast

01:19:23.550 --> 01:19:24.780
and start doing vulnerability.

01:19:25.020 --> 01:19:28.110
I'm gonna do everything that I
told myself I wasn't gonna do.

01:19:28.110 --> 01:19:28.650
I'm gonna do it.

01:19:28.920 --> 01:19:29.340
Hmm.

01:19:29.790 --> 01:19:32.880
Because it's hard and we need to do hard.

01:19:33.390 --> 01:19:35.850
Travis Bader: Nothing in life
worthwhile ever came easy.

01:19:36.030 --> 01:19:36.360
No.

01:19:39.270 --> 01:19:41.010
It's not like you're addicted to heroin.

01:19:41.640 --> 01:19:43.350
I find that interesting.

01:19:43.680 --> 01:19:46.620
There's always a comparative scale.

01:19:47.940 --> 01:19:49.210
There's always somebody
who's got it worse.

01:19:49.760 --> 01:19:51.540
There's always something.

01:19:52.110 --> 01:19:53.910
You're not, you're never
gonna be at the worst side.

01:19:53.910 --> 01:19:55.260
You're never gonna be at the best side.

01:19:55.770 --> 01:20:00.300
And I find with the mental health aspect
of it, people do that a lot internally.

01:20:00.990 --> 01:20:06.000
Well, it's not like I was
serving in uh, a heavy war.

01:20:06.390 --> 01:20:12.390
It's not like I was, I think I've
talked about the, uh, the chocolate

01:20:12.390 --> 01:20:13.950
bar guy on the podcast in the past.

01:20:13.950 --> 01:20:15.840
Have you ever heard of the
Maggot Chocolate Bar guy?

01:20:16.740 --> 01:20:17.310
Interesting.

01:20:17.310 --> 01:20:21.750
One guy goes, goes to the grocery
store, picks up a, uh, chocolate

01:20:21.750 --> 01:20:23.160
bar and some other stuff he's eaten.

01:20:23.160 --> 01:20:27.090
He gets halfway through it
and there's maggots in there.

01:20:27.300 --> 01:20:28.120
He's like, oh, that's pretty gross.

01:20:28.440 --> 01:20:31.740
Goes to talks to the shop keep Shop
keeps like, ah, we'll give you a refund.

01:20:31.745 --> 01:20:32.880
You can have a free one if you want.

01:20:32.880 --> 01:20:33.900
He's like, I don't want a free ones.

01:20:34.110 --> 01:20:35.400
Probably got Megas in a too, right?

01:20:35.790 --> 01:20:36.270
Fair enough.

01:20:36.270 --> 01:20:36.780
Goes home.

01:20:38.220 --> 01:20:42.600
But then he starts developing reoccurring
thoughts and he's dreaming about this

01:20:42.780 --> 01:20:45.870
Ty Chocolate bar and he stops going
to his church group cuz he figures

01:20:45.870 --> 01:20:46.802
everyone's gonna be laughing at him.

01:20:47.150 --> 01:20:49.290
He's the chocolate par mega eater.

01:20:49.290 --> 01:20:49.530
Right.

01:20:49.535 --> 01:20:54.060
And he's displaying all of
these symptoms that are.

01:20:54.660 --> 01:20:59.849
What is typically associated with PTs
D, but he's eaten a chocolate bar with

01:20:59.849 --> 01:21:01.380
maggots, and I've eaten maggots, right?

01:21:01.380 --> 01:21:04.410
I've eaten, I've eaten bugs and
grubs and worms and crap, right?

01:21:04.620 --> 01:21:05.849
Like, hey, that's nothing.

01:21:06.750 --> 01:21:07.769
Is it nothing for him?

01:21:08.309 --> 01:21:12.480
Well, maybe he has a predisposition to
effect to look at things differently.

01:21:12.485 --> 01:21:15.840
Maybe his upbringing causes him to
look at things in a different way.

01:21:15.840 --> 01:21:18.420
Maybe his brain ticks
a little bit different.

01:21:18.990 --> 01:21:23.610
The psychophysiological effects of
what happened to him are manifesting

01:21:23.610 --> 01:21:25.830
in a way that is a concern.

01:21:26.790 --> 01:21:31.140
I think one of the most critical things
that people can do for themselves,

01:21:31.140 --> 01:21:35.700
and if we're talking about Men's
Mental Health Month, is be able to

01:21:35.700 --> 01:21:40.860
recognize when things aren't ticking
properly in themselves or in others,

01:21:40.860 --> 01:21:42.330
so they can have that conversation.

01:21:42.330 --> 01:21:46.740
And not to discredit it and say,
well, it's not like I'm a soldier.

01:21:46.740 --> 01:21:51.599
It's not like I'm, you know,
Nathan, he's rcmp seen some horrific

01:21:51.599 --> 01:21:54.750
things, and these circumstances,
I shouldn't be feeling this way.

01:21:54.750 --> 01:21:56.910
I'll just shuffle it under the carpet.

01:21:56.910 --> 01:22:03.630
I think the best thing people can do is be
able to recognize and then take steps to

01:22:03.635 --> 01:22:06.360
address, not wear it, not say, this is me.

01:22:06.360 --> 01:22:09.230
Now look at, I recognize there's a
problem, and this is, I'm always gonna be

01:22:09.330 --> 01:22:12.090
Bob with a P T S D or, or what have you.

01:22:13.290 --> 01:22:15.900
But just realize, who knows?

01:22:15.900 --> 01:22:16.230
I don't know.

01:22:16.230 --> 01:22:17.940
Maybe my brain ticks a
little bit different.

01:22:17.940 --> 01:22:19.920
Maybe my upbringings a
little bit different, but my

01:22:19.925 --> 01:22:21.540
reaction to these stressors.

01:22:21.945 --> 01:22:25.345
Are manifesting themselves in
a way that requires attention.

01:22:27.615 --> 01:22:31.155
Nathan Kapler: The, and this is a
really fascinating thing, a topic for

01:22:31.155 --> 01:22:34.905
me because I did this for many years.

01:22:34.905 --> 01:22:38.985
I sat and I tried to assess myself and
I didn't know how to assess myself.

01:22:39.675 --> 01:22:42.855
So naturally, when we don't know how
to assess ourselves or where we're

01:22:42.855 --> 01:22:45.555
at in our journey, we've talked a
little about about, you know, when

01:22:45.555 --> 01:22:48.105
we're healthy, we can kind of figure
out how to stay in that bandwidth.

01:22:48.105 --> 01:22:50.475
When we become unhealthy, we don't
really know how to get back, right?

01:22:50.480 --> 01:22:52.395
We might need some help
at some point, right?

01:22:52.400 --> 01:22:53.355
If we go low enough.

01:22:54.045 --> 01:22:57.435
But in those stages, I think, I
think at certain points when we

01:22:57.435 --> 01:23:02.325
really start to get unhealthy, we
almost start to compare, where am I?

01:23:02.415 --> 01:23:05.415
And we look at others and we see
what they're doing, and then we

01:23:05.415 --> 01:23:08.295
compare ourselves to them and
their story, oh, you know what?

01:23:08.295 --> 01:23:11.055
I'm doing pretty good, cuz that guy
seems a little bit more messed up.

01:23:11.115 --> 01:23:11.325
Mm-hmm.

01:23:11.925 --> 01:23:13.215
Maybe I'm actually okay.

01:23:13.215 --> 01:23:14.905
And we tell ourselves that lie, right?

01:23:14.905 --> 01:23:15.915
And we compare.

01:23:15.945 --> 01:23:17.865
Comparing is the worst thing you can do.

01:23:17.955 --> 01:23:18.255
Mm-hmm.

01:23:19.785 --> 01:23:22.455
Your life is not his and vice versa.

01:23:23.655 --> 01:23:26.595
So you've gotta challenge yourself
in those moments too, to really kind

01:23:26.595 --> 01:23:30.225
of hone in on, on that narrative
that happens, that wolf right, that

01:23:30.230 --> 01:23:32.835
comes out, that tries to say, Hey,
you don't have to do the hard work

01:23:32.835 --> 01:23:35.145
here cuz that guy's more messed up.

01:23:35.955 --> 01:23:36.245
You're good.

01:23:36.595 --> 01:23:37.456
Just don't get there.

01:23:38.895 --> 01:23:39.585
What does that do?

01:23:40.185 --> 01:23:44.385
That doesn't nudge you forward, that
doesn't hold awareness, that doesn't

01:23:44.385 --> 01:23:45.855
push you in a direction of growth.

01:23:47.145 --> 01:23:48.405
It lets you stay stagnant.

01:23:48.895 --> 01:23:49.315
Mm-hmm.

01:23:50.955 --> 01:23:54.825
Now your knife edge is dulling
and you're not doing anything.

01:23:54.825 --> 01:23:56.175
You're not heading in the right direction.

01:23:57.375 --> 01:24:00.675
It's a very, very dangerous place to
be, to compare yourselves to others.

01:24:01.155 --> 01:24:02.985
I get a lot of feedback
on social media now.

01:24:03.645 --> 01:24:04.845
A lot of amazing people write in.

01:24:04.845 --> 01:24:07.155
They say, Hey, you know, I, I
don't even know how you do this.

01:24:07.155 --> 01:24:09.975
I don't know how you get on a podcast and
talk, you know about your mental health.

01:24:09.975 --> 01:24:10.485
How do you do that?

01:24:10.485 --> 01:24:10.645
That's amazing.

01:24:10.645 --> 01:24:11.325
Blah, blah, blah.

01:24:11.325 --> 01:24:12.015
I could never do that.

01:24:13.305 --> 01:24:13.785
Sure, you could.

01:24:14.685 --> 01:24:15.585
How does that make you feel?

01:24:22.365 --> 01:24:28.125
The stories you hear that roll
in, you see, and you hear the

01:24:28.125 --> 01:24:29.925
members who are just, they're done.

01:24:30.285 --> 01:24:30.645
Hmm.

01:24:31.335 --> 01:24:33.465
I've had guys write in say, I'm, I'm done.

01:24:33.825 --> 01:24:34.125
Hmm.

01:24:34.665 --> 01:24:35.835
I'm looking to hang myself.

01:24:35.835 --> 01:24:36.705
Mm-hmm.

01:24:37.285 --> 01:24:38.235
I can't do this anymore.

01:24:38.895 --> 01:24:39.585
It's too much.

01:24:40.965 --> 01:24:41.415
They hurt.

01:24:42.255 --> 01:24:42.345
Sure.

01:24:42.705 --> 01:24:43.275
I'm sad.

01:24:43.605 --> 01:24:44.595
I get that message.

01:24:45.405 --> 01:24:45.855
I'm sad.

01:24:46.395 --> 01:24:46.485
Mm-hmm.

01:24:46.515 --> 01:24:48.795
I'm sad for that guy cuz I
know what that feels like.

01:24:48.975 --> 01:24:52.365
And a big part of why I launched
this podcast too, is that, uh, there

01:24:52.365 --> 01:24:54.945
was a female member in Richmond that
took her own life under a bridge.

01:24:55.365 --> 01:24:55.485
Mm-hmm.

01:24:56.085 --> 01:24:56.535
Same day.

01:24:56.540 --> 01:24:57.825
A Winnipeg member took his life.

01:24:58.125 --> 01:25:00.075
And I remember that news came
in, I was in the garage, I was

01:25:00.080 --> 01:25:00.975
just about to have a workout.

01:25:01.005 --> 01:25:04.305
I cried, cried my eyes out, and I
thought to myself, how did this happen?

01:25:04.485 --> 01:25:07.575
How, how are so many amazing
people out there killing

01:25:07.575 --> 01:25:09.886
themselves at such a large number?

01:25:11.960 --> 01:25:13.935
And it's so hidden in society.

01:25:13.935 --> 01:25:14.985
We don't talk about this stuff.

01:25:14.985 --> 01:25:16.695
We don't talk about law
enforcement suicide.

01:25:16.875 --> 01:25:17.025
Mm-hmm.

01:25:17.055 --> 01:25:18.735
Don't talk about first responder suicide.

01:25:19.155 --> 01:25:21.975
We barely even talk about
just civilian suicide.

01:25:22.065 --> 01:25:22.425
Right.

01:25:23.625 --> 01:25:24.645
So what's going on here?

01:25:24.645 --> 01:25:25.755
Why are we avoiding this?

01:25:27.075 --> 01:25:29.895
And I had this moment, it was kind
of an epiphany of sense too, where it

01:25:30.315 --> 01:25:32.925
was a motivator for me because enough
people had said, Hey, start a podcast.

01:25:32.925 --> 01:25:34.035
Start a podcast, start a podcast.

01:25:34.035 --> 01:25:34.965
And I thought, yeah, you know what?

01:25:36.075 --> 01:25:39.825
I don't wanna see someone else
take their life and we gotta

01:25:39.825 --> 01:25:41.055
start talking about this stuff.

01:25:41.235 --> 01:25:42.375
And we gotta create a culture.

01:25:42.555 --> 01:25:47.205
If the police organization or whoever out
there cannot create a supportive culture

01:25:47.205 --> 01:25:51.045
inside their working lines to show that
empathy, to show that compassion, to

01:25:51.045 --> 01:25:52.275
be leaders, to say, Hey, you know what?

01:25:52.545 --> 01:25:53.085
We're all here.

01:25:53.090 --> 01:25:54.405
We're all going through the same stuff.

01:25:56.985 --> 01:26:00.825
Our people will kill themselves
and there will be no stop.

01:26:02.745 --> 01:26:05.565
And that was also a big motivator for me
too, to get on and just start sharing.

01:26:05.775 --> 01:26:08.445
Cuz I understood su suicide to a degree.

01:26:08.655 --> 01:26:08.955
Hmm.

01:26:09.405 --> 01:26:10.815
I knew why it happens.

01:26:11.235 --> 01:26:12.735
The pain and suffering becomes too much.

01:26:12.740 --> 01:26:13.175
It's like addiction.

01:26:13.635 --> 01:26:16.155
You gotta find a a way out.

01:26:17.595 --> 01:26:17.925
Right?

01:26:17.925 --> 01:26:21.675
Whether the addiction solves that
problem for you, or the suicide solves

01:26:21.675 --> 01:26:25.725
that problem for you, but you're
now gonna look at harming yourself.

01:26:26.265 --> 01:26:28.065
You're healthy, you
will not harm yourself.

01:26:28.125 --> 01:26:28.605
Mm.

01:26:29.055 --> 01:26:29.895
You are unhealthy.

01:26:30.405 --> 01:26:30.765
You will.

01:26:33.645 --> 01:26:40.184
So for me, that when I hear
these stories roll in, And

01:26:40.184 --> 01:26:41.325
that's a really good question.

01:26:41.330 --> 01:26:44.294
Trav, I'm heartbroken at times.

01:26:45.344 --> 01:26:49.485
I'm completely ecstatic for others
at times because they're on the

01:26:49.485 --> 01:26:51.945
journey now of they're saying, Hey,
I'm getting into law enforcement,

01:26:52.275 --> 01:26:53.445
but I'm gonna take your advice.

01:26:53.445 --> 01:26:55.065
I'm gonna go see a psychologist day one.

01:26:55.304 --> 01:27:00.014
So we have this, this barometric kind
of measurement of where am I smart?

01:27:00.014 --> 01:27:04.665
So as soon as I start to slip, I
got someone there to hold me, right?

01:27:04.665 --> 01:27:06.105
So I'm not falling off the bridge alone.

01:27:07.485 --> 01:27:07.724
Right?

01:27:07.724 --> 01:27:10.875
And I advocate that a lot
in, in first responder work.

01:27:11.115 --> 01:27:14.655
We know that it's stressful,
we know that it's hard.

01:27:14.745 --> 01:27:18.317
We know that you're gonna see a lot
of hard things walk into it with

01:27:18.554 --> 01:27:21.344
the vulnerability and walk into
that psychologist office day one

01:27:21.344 --> 01:27:24.315
and say, I have no idea what I'm
gonna see or what I'm gonna do.

01:27:25.125 --> 01:27:31.844
I want to check in though and just talk
so that you can get to know me so that you

01:27:31.849 --> 01:27:34.455
can hold my hand and keep me on that path.

01:27:35.174 --> 01:27:38.745
Cuz if you fall off and you will, if
you don't have these right supports in

01:27:38.745 --> 01:27:41.445
place, it's a hell of a ride to come back.

01:27:43.394 --> 01:27:45.014
Travis Bader: You'd almost think
that this is something that

01:27:45.014 --> 01:27:46.905
the department would initiate.

01:27:48.825 --> 01:27:54.644
Nathan Kapler: I sat down with the RCMP
last year, last year after podcasting

01:27:54.644 --> 01:27:58.125
for a while and I said, listen boys,
um, I actually emailed someone quite

01:27:58.394 --> 01:28:02.174
high up and I just said, you know what,
what is your, what is your strategy

01:28:02.174 --> 01:28:03.644
here for mental health for our people?

01:28:04.125 --> 01:28:05.054
And they took my meeting.

01:28:05.640 --> 01:28:06.240
Which is rare.

01:28:06.420 --> 01:28:06.690
Mm-hmm.

01:28:07.410 --> 01:28:08.280
And I sat down with them.

01:28:08.280 --> 01:28:10.080
I'm not gonna name names,
that's not how I roll.

01:28:10.110 --> 01:28:10.260
Hmm.

01:28:10.620 --> 01:28:12.330
But I just said, you know,
what's the strategy here?

01:28:13.230 --> 01:28:15.090
And it was, it was classic rcmp.

01:28:15.090 --> 01:28:18.120
Well, you know, we've got a few ago
Agora courses coming out on the computer.

01:28:18.120 --> 01:28:20.730
We're gonna talk a little bit
about suicide and we're gonna do

01:28:20.730 --> 01:28:21.930
this, that, and the other thing.

01:28:21.930 --> 01:28:24.391
And you know, we're starting to
talk about it more in Depo and

01:28:24.396 --> 01:28:25.050
blah blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:28:25.350 --> 01:28:26.970
And I was like, awesome.

01:28:28.050 --> 01:28:28.680
Is that enough?

01:28:28.890 --> 01:28:29.160
Hmm.

01:28:30.180 --> 01:28:31.020
Do we need to do more?

01:28:32.190 --> 01:28:33.870
And what does that really establish?

01:28:33.870 --> 01:28:37.620
What does that really do for
continuing to invest in our people?

01:28:39.480 --> 01:28:40.860
So there's massive gaps in there.

01:28:40.860 --> 01:28:41.310
Mm-hmm.

01:28:41.316 --> 01:28:42.330
Massive gaps in there.

01:28:42.900 --> 01:28:45.901
And what I like to see from a lot
of the people that are out doing

01:28:45.906 --> 01:28:48.870
this now, they're talking very
openly about their experience.

01:28:49.200 --> 01:28:54.330
Sat, uh, Sean Taylors, uh,
all these guys like yourself.

01:28:54.330 --> 01:28:55.770
You're here in the space too, right.

01:28:55.920 --> 01:28:58.770
Slowly starting to get into this, you
know, talking about all this stuff.

01:28:59.280 --> 01:29:02.220
And we're all saying, Hey, like
we've been through some stuff.

01:29:02.220 --> 01:29:03.510
These are the lessons we've learned.

01:29:03.960 --> 01:29:07.920
Um, if the organization isn't
going to be there to help us to

01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:12.480
succeed, we'll just do it over here
and we'll give you that option.

01:29:12.720 --> 01:29:13.020
Right.

01:29:13.050 --> 01:29:15.840
Because you'll need it
eventually in the organization.

01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:17.130
The organization, not to blame them.

01:29:17.130 --> 01:29:19.200
I think the organization
has their own challenges.

01:29:19.230 --> 01:29:19.530
Mm-hmm.

01:29:19.710 --> 01:29:21.300
I don't think they fully
understand the problem.

01:29:22.720 --> 01:29:24.990
And that's not to cast
shade or blame on them.

01:29:25.740 --> 01:29:26.070
Right.

01:29:28.380 --> 01:29:29.580
It's just the way it is.

01:29:29.580 --> 01:29:29.670
Mm-hmm.

01:29:29.910 --> 01:29:30.450
They're too big.

01:29:30.450 --> 01:29:31.160
There's too many people.

01:29:31.799 --> 01:29:32.940
They have so many moving

01:29:32.940 --> 01:29:35.429
Travis Bader: parts, they've
outgrown what they originally were.

01:29:36.030 --> 01:29:36.780
Nathan Kapler: Absolutely.

01:29:36.929 --> 01:29:40.830
You know, is funding, is the
funding enough for these programs

01:29:40.980 --> 01:29:42.450
Are the right people involved?

01:29:43.919 --> 01:29:44.160
Right.

01:29:44.165 --> 01:29:46.710
It's, it's an incredibly
complicated story.

01:29:46.710 --> 01:29:50.219
So for us who are kind of, you
know, we get to jump on as men and

01:29:50.219 --> 01:29:53.280
just showcase, you know, here's,
here's how we view this issue.

01:29:53.639 --> 01:29:57.210
We get to just do what we want to do
so we can talk about this stuff and we

01:29:57.210 --> 01:30:01.080
can, you know, help others in ways that
the RCMP can't, it's too big of a beast.

01:30:01.740 --> 01:30:03.870
Any kind of change you want to
create in that organization.

01:30:03.900 --> 01:30:06.330
Even when I was a mounty took years.

01:30:06.335 --> 01:30:06.519
Mm.

01:30:07.230 --> 01:30:08.580
They dropped a tie at one point.

01:30:08.580 --> 01:30:09.419
We used to wear the tie.

01:30:09.424 --> 01:30:09.519
Yeah.

01:30:09.620 --> 01:30:11.400
It took years to drop that thing.

01:30:11.669 --> 01:30:11.879
Yeah.

01:30:12.089 --> 01:30:15.960
If you, if it's gonna take you
years 10, 20, uh, 15, was it

01:30:15.960 --> 01:30:17.309
15 years to get the carbines?

01:30:17.580 --> 01:30:18.210
Something like that.

01:30:18.214 --> 01:30:18.450
Yeah.

01:30:19.410 --> 01:30:19.679
Yeah.

01:30:20.219 --> 01:30:20.730
To get a gun.

01:30:20.969 --> 01:30:21.120
Yeah.

01:30:21.150 --> 01:30:25.169
15 years to get a gun on the street
that was recommended from Math orp.

01:30:25.440 --> 01:30:25.860
How long

01:30:25.860 --> 01:30:27.690
Travis Bader: is it gonna be before
they get a proper programming

01:30:27.690 --> 01:30:28.620
in place for mental health?

01:30:28.625 --> 01:30:29.400
It'll be a while.

01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:30.809
Nathan Kapler: It may never be.

01:30:30.900 --> 01:30:32.250
It probably will never be.

01:30:32.790 --> 01:30:36.179
And this is, this is the interesting
thing too that happens with mental health.

01:30:36.419 --> 01:30:39.960
As we're evolving in society and we're
starting to have different shifts in how

01:30:39.960 --> 01:30:44.190
we perceive things, mental health and,
and inclusivity and all these different

01:30:44.190 --> 01:30:45.660
things, the goal poster always changing.

01:30:45.665 --> 01:30:45.790
Mm-hmm.

01:30:46.370 --> 01:30:49.919
So how does an organization stay
up with the needs that are current

01:30:49.919 --> 01:30:51.450
to what's going through society?

01:30:51.929 --> 01:30:51.960
Oh,

01:30:52.190 --> 01:30:55.710
Travis Bader: particularly, particularly
when they run a 15 year cycle

01:30:55.710 --> 01:30:57.660
on, on adopting new information.

01:30:57.929 --> 01:30:58.259
Right.

01:30:59.445 --> 01:31:04.815
So, I know you've got a phenomenal
bear story, but before we go to this

01:31:04.815 --> 01:31:08.325
bear story, is there anything else
that we should be talking about?

01:31:08.775 --> 01:31:09.855
Questions for me?

01:31:10.005 --> 01:31:12.855
Things that you think would
bring value to the listeners?

01:31:13.305 --> 01:31:16.465
Anything that would bring
value to the 10 33 podcast?

01:31:18.165 --> 01:31:20.835
Nathan Kapler: Uh, you
know, I, I'm much like you.

01:31:20.835 --> 01:31:22.845
I asked you a question, I was
like, how's your podcast doing?

01:31:22.845 --> 01:31:23.775
And you're like, ah, I don't know.

01:31:25.035 --> 01:31:26.295
And that's, that's where I am too.

01:31:26.295 --> 01:31:29.115
Like, there was, there was a
period when I started podcasting

01:31:29.115 --> 01:31:31.215
where I was like checking all the
time and I was like, oh, yeah.

01:31:31.215 --> 01:31:32.175
Numbers, numbers, numbers.

01:31:32.265 --> 01:31:32.415
Yeah.

01:31:32.625 --> 01:31:34.035
And then you get to a point
and you're like, yeah, I'm

01:31:34.040 --> 01:31:35.235
just gonna show up and do this.

01:31:35.240 --> 01:31:35.265
Yeah.

01:31:35.945 --> 01:31:36.705
I don't care.

01:31:36.710 --> 01:31:36.755
Yeah.

01:31:36.975 --> 01:31:40.035
People, people that will want
to join, people that will see

01:31:40.035 --> 01:31:41.205
the value, they'll show up.

01:31:41.415 --> 01:31:41.835
That's it.

01:31:42.465 --> 01:31:42.825
Period.

01:31:43.185 --> 01:31:43.455
Right.

01:31:43.455 --> 01:31:45.525
Much like Field of a Dreams, if
you build it, they will come.

01:31:45.555 --> 01:31:45.735
Mm-hmm.

01:31:46.155 --> 01:31:46.425
Right.

01:31:46.425 --> 01:31:48.225
And you stop putting that
pressure on yourself.

01:31:48.230 --> 01:31:48.495
Right.

01:31:48.495 --> 01:31:49.935
Perfection, all that different stuff.

01:31:50.535 --> 01:31:53.835
But I think for me, like one of the
big things, and we, we loosely talked

01:31:53.835 --> 01:31:55.715
about this, but how did you end up here?

01:31:56.085 --> 01:32:02.295
Because this started off as more of
a, a Silvercore Hunting Exploration

01:32:02.300 --> 01:32:05.745
podcast, and now we're sitting down
here, men's Mental Health in June, and

01:32:05.745 --> 01:32:09.195
we're having this conversation, this open
conversation about men's mental health.

01:32:09.495 --> 01:32:10.485
How did you end up here?

01:32:11.205 --> 01:32:14.895
Travis Bader: Well, for me it was,
I had to pick a category for the

01:32:14.915 --> 01:32:17.385
podcast in like the iTunes chart.

01:32:17.685 --> 01:32:22.305
And so I think we're under Wilderness
is where we're at, but Silvercore has

01:32:22.305 --> 01:32:24.525
always been more of a nebulous creature.

01:32:25.139 --> 01:32:28.500
I called it Silvercores after my
grandfather, silver Armo, who is a

01:32:28.500 --> 01:32:31.799
Vancouver police officer, my other
grandfather, Cornelius Bader, who is

01:32:31.799 --> 01:32:36.389
an entrepreneur, owned a large bakery
in by where the criminal Croatian

01:32:36.389 --> 01:32:37.980
cultural center is around that area.

01:32:38.790 --> 01:32:44.971
Um, and I figured if I call it something
nebulous, it'll allow me latitude to

01:32:45.179 --> 01:32:48.990
be able to work in varying places.

01:32:49.769 --> 01:32:51.059
It's worked well for the company.

01:32:51.570 --> 01:32:53.670
And I thought, I'll do
the same for the podcast.

01:32:53.670 --> 01:32:57.120
And I don't monetize a podcast
except for pressing that little

01:32:57.420 --> 01:33:01.230
accept money on, uh, on YouTube and
you make a couple dollars a month.

01:33:01.230 --> 01:33:06.809
It's nothing, nothing's to write
home a but it allows me the latitude

01:33:06.809 --> 01:33:09.330
to talk about whatever it is
that's gonna be of interest to me.

01:33:09.750 --> 01:33:13.410
And I'm not always gonna be talking
about, my background is firearms and

01:33:13.410 --> 01:33:17.910
the outdoors and, but, you know, I'm
also, I enjoy surfing and I, I enjoy

01:33:17.910 --> 01:33:22.280
mountaineering and I'm there, there's a
wide gamut of things that I enjoy, and

01:33:22.530 --> 01:33:29.639
I don't want to be the, the Paragliding
podcast, the, so the scuba diving podcast

01:33:29.639 --> 01:33:33.009
or whatever, that one little niche,
if I could keep it as the Silvercore

01:33:33.030 --> 01:33:34.950
podcast, I can talk about whatever.

01:33:35.429 --> 01:33:40.940
And I specifically looked at this because
a friend came in and said, you need,

01:33:41.549 --> 01:33:44.519
every business should be a media company.

01:33:44.910 --> 01:33:48.269
They need the ability to
disseminate information so

01:33:48.269 --> 01:33:49.290
people know what's going on.

01:33:49.295 --> 01:33:50.790
They need to know the
owner, they need to know.

01:33:52.200 --> 01:33:54.360
And there was a lot of
negativity in the industry.

01:33:54.420 --> 01:33:57.150
I mean, there's negativity
surrounding firearms in media.

01:33:57.210 --> 01:33:59.969
In social media, you get
shadow banned or banned if you

01:33:59.969 --> 01:34:01.950
talk about guns and firearms.

01:34:02.309 --> 01:34:04.620
It's a low barrier to entry industry.

01:34:04.620 --> 01:34:09.549
It's gonna attract people from all walks
of life who may let their ambitions

01:34:09.929 --> 01:34:15.629
exceed their morals or ethics and do
things that are, uh, pretty damn slimy.

01:34:15.719 --> 01:34:19.740
And I've been affected by that
in a pretty, in a pretty big way.

01:34:19.740 --> 01:34:20.940
On more than one occasion.

01:34:20.940 --> 01:34:22.469
I thought, you know what?

01:34:24.059 --> 01:34:28.771
If I'm not seeing the positivity that
I want to see in the industry that

01:34:28.920 --> 01:34:31.230
I'm working in, what are my options?

01:34:31.889 --> 01:34:32.759
I can leave?

01:34:33.660 --> 01:34:36.150
Oh geez, I've never been the type
of guy to turn around and leave.

01:34:36.150 --> 01:34:38.280
I've never been a guy to
shy away from a fight.

01:34:38.670 --> 01:34:39.330
I'm stubborn.

01:34:39.690 --> 01:34:39.809
Right?

01:34:41.309 --> 01:34:44.490
I can try and create that
change that I'd like to see.

01:34:45.150 --> 01:34:47.309
And so that's where the
Silvercore Podcast is born.

01:34:47.309 --> 01:34:51.870
I wanted to do something where I can
bring value to the listeners that

01:34:51.870 --> 01:34:53.969
can bring, bring value to the guest.

01:34:54.269 --> 01:34:58.080
But selfishly, it brings value to
me, cuz it allows me to connect with

01:34:58.085 --> 01:35:03.629
others who are positive and moving in a
direction that's gonna be beneficial to

01:35:03.629 --> 01:35:05.519
themselves and everybody else around them.

01:35:05.969 --> 01:35:10.049
So that's the nuts and bolts of where
the Silvercore Podcast came from,

01:35:10.290 --> 01:35:13.139
and it never started as something
that's gonna be making money.

01:35:13.740 --> 01:35:16.049
And it still isn't
something that makes money.

01:35:16.049 --> 01:35:20.219
I don't begrudge somebody who wants
to monetize a podcast by all means.

01:35:20.219 --> 01:35:24.269
And in fact, a very smart friend of mine,
much smarter than myself, as Travis,

01:35:24.269 --> 01:35:28.860
you should monetize a podcast because
it says your opinion is worth something.

01:35:28.860 --> 01:35:30.299
It's worth this much.

01:35:30.304 --> 01:35:34.080
And other people agree,
interesting approach to it.

01:35:34.950 --> 01:35:36.269
Maybe I will at some point.

01:35:37.290 --> 01:35:43.530
That's just not where my head's at my
head is that how do I look at my current

01:35:43.530 --> 01:35:48.780
challenges that I'm experiencing, my
current passions that I want to share,

01:35:49.019 --> 01:35:53.460
and move through them with others who
have either on the same path or further

01:35:53.464 --> 01:35:55.320
along the path and share that with others.

01:35:56.070 --> 01:35:57.690
That's, that's it for me.

01:35:58.290 --> 01:36:02.370
Nathan Kapler: So for and for you, and I
mean, this is something I've also grown,

01:36:02.490 --> 01:36:06.570
uh, very accustomed to, is also listening
to others and their approach in life

01:36:06.929 --> 01:36:08.519
and, you know, what has worked for them.

01:36:08.669 --> 01:36:11.250
So obviously as I sit here and
showcase kind of, you know,

01:36:11.250 --> 01:36:12.629
this is Nate, this is his story.

01:36:12.629 --> 01:36:14.280
That's what, this is what's worked for me.

01:36:14.730 --> 01:36:19.139
You know, what, what is your, what is
your ever encompassing approach to mental

01:36:19.139 --> 01:36:22.830
health and how do you stay Well, because
that's also as equally as important.

01:36:23.099 --> 01:36:25.679
There's gonna be people that listen to
my story that are like, Hey, I'm more

01:36:25.679 --> 01:36:27.389
of a, I fit in with Camp Nate, right?

01:36:27.389 --> 01:36:27.469
Mm.

01:36:27.780 --> 01:36:28.021
I'm there.

01:36:28.370 --> 01:36:29.639
But what about Trav?

01:36:29.639 --> 01:36:30.540
Like, what about you?

01:36:30.540 --> 01:36:33.210
Like, how do, what's your
approach to mental health?

01:36:33.210 --> 01:36:35.490
You know, what's gotten
you through the hard times?

01:36:38.100 --> 01:36:41.760
Travis Bader: I would say that
dogged determination and stubbornness

01:36:41.760 --> 01:36:46.050
have probably been the driving
factor for me through hard times.

01:36:46.110 --> 01:36:51.240
And I mean, I remember
individuals coming up.

01:36:51.240 --> 01:36:55.710
I mean, people can google some of
the difficulties I've come up with

01:36:55.710 --> 01:36:59.970
in the past, just being in this
business and low barrier to entry

01:37:00.000 --> 01:37:03.480
industry and others looking and
saying, I think there's money there.

01:37:03.780 --> 01:37:05.610
And that's, that's the
thing that you look out for.

01:37:06.390 --> 01:37:08.850
If there's no money coming into a company.

01:37:08.880 --> 01:37:12.790
People do some pretty weird things
if there is money coming in or

01:37:13.140 --> 01:37:16.440
the perception that there could
be money coming in, watch out.

01:37:16.740 --> 01:37:21.480
Cuz that's the amplifier
of human imperfection.

01:37:21.780 --> 01:37:21.870
Mm-hmm.

01:37:22.320 --> 01:37:26.040
It's, money is not the root of all evil.

01:37:26.190 --> 01:37:27.000
That's a misquote.

01:37:27.900 --> 01:37:32.640
I think the proper quote is for the
love of money is the root of all evil.

01:37:32.820 --> 01:37:36.660
For people who, that's the, their
striving thing that they're looking for.

01:37:38.070 --> 01:37:42.780
It can amplify some pretty interesting
things, which has caused the business to

01:37:42.780 --> 01:37:48.570
come under fire from others who would like
to compete but don't have the ability,

01:37:48.570 --> 01:37:53.010
mental capacity, ethics, whatever it
might be to do it on their own accord.

01:37:53.015 --> 01:37:56.880
And they would rather try and steal
it, go about it in a way that's

01:37:56.880 --> 01:38:01.755
gonna be, um, Negative, I guess.

01:38:01.755 --> 01:38:05.025
And you wouldn't find that so much
if you're a doctor who's gone to

01:38:05.025 --> 01:38:08.625
school for X amount of years and
there's a process in place or a lawyer

01:38:08.625 --> 01:38:11.355
or some other professional where
there's an agreed sort of process.

01:38:11.355 --> 01:38:16.425
But in an industry that's low barrier,
it can attract all different types.

01:38:16.665 --> 01:38:20.655
So dealing with that negativity
has always just been dogged,

01:38:20.925 --> 01:38:26.865
stubborn, determination combined
with exercise, which has been huge.

01:38:26.895 --> 01:38:29.415
The outdoors, it's been massive for me.

01:38:29.775 --> 01:38:34.275
Getting out in nature, connecting with
your natural environment, it's why I hunt.

01:38:34.695 --> 01:38:36.915
I don't hunt because I need the meat.

01:38:37.605 --> 01:38:39.885
I mean, you can go to the grocery
store, you can get your meat.

01:38:40.155 --> 01:38:42.465
I don't fish cuz I need to get fresh fish.

01:38:42.465 --> 01:38:43.065
You can do that.

01:38:43.605 --> 01:38:46.305
I do that because there's an
intimate connection with nature

01:38:46.305 --> 01:38:50.145
and there's a massive mental
health benefit to being out there.

01:38:50.145 --> 01:38:54.015
If I'm hunting, I'm hearing noises
that most people don't hear.

01:38:54.945 --> 01:38:57.286
I'm smelling things, I'm seeing things.

01:38:57.645 --> 01:38:59.715
I'm paying attention to different
things that most people aren't

01:38:59.715 --> 01:39:01.035
gonna be paying attention to.

01:39:01.275 --> 01:39:03.045
And it brings the level of presentness.

01:39:03.405 --> 01:39:06.135
If I'm out surfing, I'm out in the
ocean, I'm away from everybody.

01:39:06.135 --> 01:39:08.985
If I'm climbing, I'm out in the
rock face, I'm doing my thing.

01:39:08.990 --> 01:39:12.705
And my thought process is in each and
every handhold, what, whatever I'm

01:39:12.705 --> 01:39:19.395
making, um, that would be my approach.

01:39:20.175 --> 01:39:21.795
Exercise, get outdoors.

01:39:22.095 --> 01:39:23.295
And that's substance abuse.

01:39:23.804 --> 01:39:27.195
Limit, whatever it might be,
addictive things, whether that's

01:39:27.195 --> 01:39:31.215
social media, cuz that can just
wreak havoc on people's perception.

01:39:31.755 --> 01:39:35.955
Cuz it just creates a, an oodle
loop of comparison, observe,

01:39:35.955 --> 01:39:37.875
orient, decide, act of comparison.

01:39:37.880 --> 01:39:41.025
And of course that quote,
comparison is a thief of joy.

01:39:41.365 --> 01:39:48.735
Where am I leveling compared to everybody
else out there and alcohol limit any

01:39:48.735 --> 01:39:50.325
of these things, unhealthy foods.

01:39:51.885 --> 01:39:53.264
That, that would be my approach.

01:39:54.075 --> 01:39:56.295
Nathan Kapler: And alcohol
too is one thing that, again,

01:39:56.300 --> 01:39:57.615
I didn't really flirt with.

01:39:57.615 --> 01:40:00.195
Well, I guess I did flirt with this
a little bit where I started to

01:40:00.195 --> 01:40:02.955
go down potentially a path where
it could have been an issue, but

01:40:02.955 --> 01:40:04.455
it, it didn't quite get there.

01:40:04.934 --> 01:40:08.235
Uh, and it's something that even
with, uh, my journey into medical

01:40:08.235 --> 01:40:10.635
cannabis, I don't drink anymore.

01:40:10.995 --> 01:40:11.085
Mm-hmm.

01:40:13.065 --> 01:40:18.105
Alcohol is the biggest
celebrated poison in society.

01:40:18.325 --> 01:40:18.815
Massive.

01:40:19.665 --> 01:40:21.535
Wh why, why would we do this to ourselves?

01:40:21.965 --> 01:40:25.785
Like if you're on this, this journey of
growth and betterment and improvement

01:40:25.785 --> 01:40:31.005
and, and trying to find out, uh, you know,
where this could go for you, you have

01:40:31.010 --> 01:40:33.014
to be ready to drop those things mm-hmm.

01:40:33.615 --> 01:40:35.415
That give you that instant gratification.

01:40:36.915 --> 01:40:38.925
Travis Bader: And it's got
a after effect on it too.

01:40:39.195 --> 01:40:42.735
The immediate effect is, Hey, I
feel great, but that only lasts

01:40:42.735 --> 01:40:44.054
a very short period of time.

01:40:44.565 --> 01:40:48.554
Days afterwards, you'll notice
that your perspective has changed.

01:40:49.125 --> 01:40:52.785
And I've been pushing very hard in
some different areas of business.

01:40:53.474 --> 01:40:56.985
And personal development
for a long time now.

01:40:57.015 --> 01:40:58.635
And about a year ago
I said, you know what?

01:40:58.635 --> 01:41:00.015
I'm just gonna turn the taps off.

01:41:01.394 --> 01:41:03.224
Let's see what, let's see what I can do.

01:41:03.315 --> 01:41:07.095
Let's see what I can achieve if I
just put a hundred percent dedication

01:41:07.575 --> 01:41:09.315
towards these different endeavors.

01:41:09.974 --> 01:41:12.555
And it's amazing what you can
achieve when you start putting the

01:41:12.555 --> 01:41:14.265
blinders onto those distractions.

01:41:14.835 --> 01:41:18.675
Nathan Kapler: So in, in total personal
story here, uh, my wife and I, we've

01:41:18.675 --> 01:41:23.655
been building, um, I'll just call it
stuff and things for years, right?

01:41:23.655 --> 01:41:24.224
Opportunity.

01:41:24.224 --> 01:41:24.315
Sure.

01:41:24.315 --> 01:41:25.724
Creating opportunity for ourselves.

01:41:25.724 --> 01:41:26.355
Very much like you.

01:41:26.355 --> 01:41:28.515
I knew when I was going through the
mountains, going through some hard stuff,

01:41:28.519 --> 01:41:31.345
I was like, oh, okay, I don't think
I'm gonna make it to 25 years here.

01:41:31.695 --> 01:41:33.585
I was like, I can't run the marathon.

01:41:33.585 --> 01:41:34.515
It's just not possible.

01:41:34.515 --> 01:41:35.205
So what do I do?

01:41:35.205 --> 01:41:37.005
I gotta create opportunity for myself.

01:41:37.005 --> 01:41:38.085
Do I become an entrepreneur?

01:41:38.085 --> 01:41:38.684
Do I invest?

01:41:38.684 --> 01:41:39.705
Do I do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:41:40.515 --> 01:41:42.405
So I chose a path and
I stuck to that path.

01:41:42.525 --> 01:41:46.184
And very much like what you're saying
here is that the moments where I deviate

01:41:46.184 --> 01:41:50.665
from discipline or I allow myself to
pursue that instant gratification, I

01:41:51.045 --> 01:41:54.405
automatically see the mind shift into a
place where it can't handle the stress

01:41:54.405 --> 01:41:58.155
of making those big decisions that are
very complicated because there's a lot

01:41:58.155 --> 01:41:59.775
of money now tied up in what we're doing.

01:41:59.775 --> 01:42:02.425
We've grown to a point now
where it's, it's big, bigger.

01:42:03.015 --> 01:42:03.315
Sure.

01:42:03.375 --> 01:42:03.735
Right?

01:42:03.945 --> 01:42:05.115
And you gotta stay sharp.

01:42:05.745 --> 01:42:08.505
You gotta make sure the mind is sharp
so that you can weather this storm.

01:42:08.505 --> 01:42:11.535
Because as you're growing and you're
doing all these different things,

01:42:11.715 --> 01:42:13.155
running a business is very hard.

01:42:13.155 --> 01:42:16.035
You gotta have thick skin, you gotta be
ready for the storm that's going to come.

01:42:16.035 --> 01:42:18.375
There's gonna be at least one that's
gonna come for you when you're running

01:42:18.375 --> 01:42:22.125
this business at some point, and it
has the potential to make you fold.

01:42:23.400 --> 01:42:24.179
How do you get through it?

01:42:24.809 --> 01:42:26.129
How do you handle that stress?

01:42:26.580 --> 01:42:29.009
And if you can cut these things out,
and this is where I really love to

01:42:29.009 --> 01:42:33.929
have this conversation about men now,
is how do you keep that knife sharp?

01:42:33.929 --> 01:42:35.309
You have to drop these things.

01:42:35.429 --> 01:42:37.799
You have to, and that's
what it's taught me.

01:42:38.040 --> 01:42:40.410
Getting into sobriety
was absolutely beautiful.

01:42:40.410 --> 01:42:42.830
I don't identify as a person that
has an addiction issue anymore.

01:42:42.980 --> 01:42:43.269
Sure.

01:42:43.589 --> 01:42:43.860
Right.

01:42:43.860 --> 01:42:44.339
It's done.

01:42:44.969 --> 01:42:46.110
I'm not Nate the addict.

01:42:46.469 --> 01:42:48.360
I'm Nate now you know this.

01:42:48.839 --> 01:42:48.990
Mm-hmm.

01:42:49.290 --> 01:42:51.450
Growing and building and
doing so many cool things.

01:42:51.929 --> 01:42:56.700
And to build on what you were saying
about dropping that alcohol or dropping

01:42:56.700 --> 01:43:01.200
those, those behavioral patterns, they can
launch you into a place that you're not

01:43:01.200 --> 01:43:03.570
even really aware of where you could go.

01:43:03.570 --> 01:43:03.660
Mm-hmm.

01:43:03.775 --> 01:43:07.080
And I'm sure you've seen that cuz you
just told me like, Hey, the growth that

01:43:07.084 --> 01:43:11.549
I've had here because I've walked away
from so many things, has been phenomenal.

01:43:11.790 --> 01:43:12.030
Mm-hmm.

01:43:13.110 --> 01:43:14.370
Invest in yourself.

01:43:15.000 --> 01:43:16.500
And maybe we're just getting older, right?

01:43:16.500 --> 01:43:17.550
We're in our forties.

01:43:17.670 --> 01:43:17.880
Yep.

01:43:18.330 --> 01:43:18.660
Right.

01:43:19.260 --> 01:43:23.160
So are we at the tail end of life, not
the tail end, but hopefully still at some

01:43:23.160 --> 01:43:24.450
of the good years that we have, right?

01:43:24.450 --> 01:43:24.690
Sure.

01:43:24.750 --> 01:43:25.470
I'm 38.

01:43:25.470 --> 01:43:25.560
Yep.

01:43:25.565 --> 01:43:27.990
I'm starting to get close to that point
where I'm starting to really reflect

01:43:27.990 --> 01:43:29.730
on, okay, how much time do I have?

01:43:30.240 --> 01:43:30.570
Hmm.

01:43:30.640 --> 01:43:30.990
Right.

01:43:31.260 --> 01:43:32.940
You're looking at blocks of 20 years.

01:43:32.945 --> 01:43:35.490
First 20 years you run around crazy.

01:43:35.490 --> 01:43:37.200
You you do, you do your thing.

01:43:37.590 --> 01:43:39.570
20 to 40, you're trying
to get life established.

01:43:39.990 --> 01:43:41.130
40 to 60.

01:43:41.640 --> 01:43:42.600
Those could be it.

01:43:43.560 --> 01:43:46.050
Travis Bader: See, my family never
thought I'd live past, well, at first I

01:43:46.050 --> 01:43:47.790
think it was 12, I'd never make it to 12.

01:43:47.950 --> 01:43:49.200
I I Congratulations.

01:43:49.390 --> 01:43:49.910
That's right.

01:43:50.640 --> 01:43:51.960
That's quite the bar to set.

01:43:52.050 --> 01:43:53.400
And then it was 18.

01:43:53.400 --> 01:43:55.830
He is never gonna make it to
18 and made it pass there.

01:43:56.100 --> 01:44:02.160
From my perspective, the concept of
mortality never even entered into

01:44:02.160 --> 01:44:05.820
my ADHD brain until having kids.

01:44:05.820 --> 01:44:06.110
Yeah.

01:44:06.450 --> 01:44:10.380
And kids are, of course, they bring
that concept of mortality to a focal

01:44:10.385 --> 01:44:13.590
point and you realize, well, I'm just
not living for myself anymore cuz live

01:44:13.590 --> 01:44:16.290
or die, I could care less have kids.

01:44:16.320 --> 01:44:19.140
Okay, maybe I should be around
here a little bit longer.

01:44:20.640 --> 01:44:22.860
Nathan Kapler: And you,
you as a man have a choice.

01:44:22.860 --> 01:44:26.730
I got three kids, uh, a daughter who's
six, a son who's two, another son

01:44:26.730 --> 01:44:28.740
who's one, and I sit with them now.

01:44:28.810 --> 01:44:34.290
And when you hold your
kid, it's a timestamp.

01:44:34.295 --> 01:44:34.550
Mm-hmm.

01:44:34.630 --> 01:44:37.350
Because you look at them and you go,
how much time do I have with you?

01:44:37.680 --> 01:44:37.980
Mm-hmm.

01:44:40.125 --> 01:44:42.300
And what's really important
here is having a drink.

01:44:42.300 --> 01:44:42.780
Important.

01:44:42.990 --> 01:44:43.140
Mm-hmm.

01:44:43.800 --> 01:44:46.290
Or is doing something for myself so that,

01:44:53.430 --> 01:44:57.540
so that I get enough time
with you so I can see all the

01:44:57.540 --> 01:44:58.710
amazing things you're gonna do.

01:44:58.710 --> 01:44:59.670
Mm-hmm.

01:45:01.850 --> 01:45:03.630
You've got to pick your poison in life.

01:45:04.560 --> 01:45:05.190
You really do.

01:45:05.560 --> 01:45:05.850
Yeah.

01:45:06.350 --> 01:45:12.480
And it's, it's, you know, I don't
wanna say in addiction, my kids

01:45:12.485 --> 01:45:17.670
saved me because I saved myself,
but my kids really did help.

01:45:17.675 --> 01:45:18.210
Show me the way

01:45:20.700 --> 01:45:25.530
Travis Bader: you have to make a decision
as a father, as a mother, as a parent.

01:45:27.330 --> 01:45:29.520
What kind of a parent do you want to be?

01:45:30.330 --> 01:45:32.640
Because you know you're
gonna make a carbon copy.

01:45:33.690 --> 01:45:36.000
There's gonna be a certain
level of carbon copy that's

01:45:36.000 --> 01:45:37.110
gonna come out in your children.

01:45:37.110 --> 01:45:38.130
They're gonna choose their own path.

01:45:38.130 --> 01:45:40.260
They're gonna do their own
thing, but they can't help but

01:45:40.260 --> 01:45:41.610
imprint in some way or another.

01:45:43.380 --> 01:45:45.960
I made the decision at a
very early age with my kids.

01:45:46.290 --> 01:45:47.640
I'm never gonna lay a finger on them.

01:45:49.740 --> 01:45:51.210
Physical abuse.

01:45:51.270 --> 01:45:54.630
Physical punishment was a
common thing back in the day.

01:45:54.630 --> 01:45:55.770
A lot of people know this.

01:45:56.550 --> 01:45:57.600
I've experienced it.

01:45:57.660 --> 01:45:59.670
I said, I'm never gonna
lay a finger on them.

01:46:00.060 --> 01:46:00.150
Yeah.

01:46:00.155 --> 01:46:00.570
Why?

01:46:01.740 --> 01:46:04.800
Because if I hit them, I give
'em a smack, I punch 'em.

01:46:06.360 --> 01:46:07.320
Is that gonna tune 'em up?

01:46:08.040 --> 01:46:10.260
Maybe, what if it doesn't?

01:46:10.500 --> 01:46:11.370
Do I have to punch harder?

01:46:12.240 --> 01:46:13.050
Where does it stop?

01:46:14.310 --> 01:46:16.680
Why even go down that road to begin with?

01:46:20.400 --> 01:46:22.860
That was the number one
thing I made a decision of.

01:46:22.860 --> 01:46:27.300
The number two thing was I'm
going to give them the ability

01:46:27.330 --> 01:46:28.830
to have agency in their own life.

01:46:30.340 --> 01:46:33.270
So they're calling shots
from a very early age.

01:46:33.270 --> 01:46:37.440
Now those shots might not
be super consequential.

01:46:37.770 --> 01:46:40.200
Do you want to go to bed now or do
you wanna go to bed in 10 minutes?

01:46:40.260 --> 01:46:41.610
Right, you're still going to bed.

01:46:44.910 --> 01:46:46.290
Here's what I'd like to see you do.

01:46:46.530 --> 01:46:48.750
But I am open to reasonable persuasion.

01:46:49.110 --> 01:46:53.880
It's never do what I say cause and
allows 'em to be able to articulate

01:46:53.880 --> 01:46:56.880
reasons why they might want to do
things differently or develop a

01:46:56.880 --> 01:46:58.890
thought process and give them power.

01:46:58.980 --> 01:47:00.480
Basically empower the children.

01:47:01.350 --> 01:47:05.490
Those are a couple things that I
looked at and I figured if we can

01:47:05.490 --> 01:47:09.690
break that cycle and bring in a
healthy human being into this world

01:47:09.870 --> 01:47:12.990
and hopefully not mess 'em up too much.

01:47:13.020 --> 01:47:16.860
And that's a funny thing cuz everybody's
gonna have issues from childhood.

01:47:16.860 --> 01:47:19.410
I have a friend, he had the best parents.

01:47:19.860 --> 01:47:21.030
They were fantastic.

01:47:21.270 --> 01:47:26.040
And when he got to be in his,
uh, late teens, early twenties,

01:47:26.280 --> 01:47:27.330
he was resentful of them.

01:47:27.990 --> 01:47:31.800
Like, what the hell your parents are
loving, they're caring, they're providing,

01:47:31.800 --> 01:47:33.720
they're there for you all the time.

01:47:33.960 --> 01:47:36.390
He's like, they made my life too easy.

01:47:36.720 --> 01:47:41.130
I haven't had the challenges that, uh,
would, would form me into a better person.

01:47:41.160 --> 01:47:43.260
That was his level of
resentment and his problems.

01:47:43.290 --> 01:47:43.620
Okay.

01:47:43.680 --> 01:47:44.250
Fair point.

01:47:44.310 --> 01:47:48.780
I, I can see at that age, I
was like, you're an idiot.

01:47:49.320 --> 01:47:49.650
Right.

01:47:50.550 --> 01:47:51.990
Um, but okay.

01:47:52.050 --> 01:47:54.810
I guess everyone's gonna
have different challenges.

01:47:54.870 --> 01:47:55.950
It's not for me to judge.

01:47:56.430 --> 01:48:02.070
Um, but at least there's a couple
things that I can do with my family

01:48:02.850 --> 01:48:05.880
to work through to ensure that
there's certain things that are

01:48:06.410 --> 01:48:08.370
gearing them up for the best success.

01:48:10.350 --> 01:48:13.890
Nathan Kapler: And I to, uh,
identify with, you know, my

01:48:13.890 --> 01:48:17.730
upbringing and what I saw Hmm.

01:48:17.790 --> 01:48:24.360
As a child growing up where, you know,
those, those different concepts were used.

01:48:24.470 --> 01:48:24.760
Sure.

01:48:24.810 --> 01:48:28.380
North, Northern Alberta in the
eighties, things were different.

01:48:29.340 --> 01:48:29.610
Right.

01:48:29.760 --> 01:48:34.260
Men had a certain way of being a
father that was kind of normal.

01:48:34.350 --> 01:48:34.710
Sure.

01:48:35.310 --> 01:48:35.700
Right.

01:48:35.705 --> 01:48:39.780
And it wasn't until, I remember
when I came to BC and this whole

01:48:39.810 --> 01:48:43.920
liberal mindset, I'm leaving the
conservative prairies for the liberals.

01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:43.921
Right.

01:48:44.160 --> 01:48:47.250
And everybody's so open and
hugging and talking and, you know.

01:48:47.260 --> 01:48:47.480
Mm.

01:48:47.730 --> 01:48:51.810
I just, everything was just so open and
everybody had this open-minded view of

01:48:51.810 --> 01:48:56.220
the world and I kind of just stood back
and I was like, this is interesting.

01:48:56.550 --> 01:48:56.910
Hmm.

01:48:57.540 --> 01:49:00.900
Because this totally
clashes with what I believe.

01:49:01.950 --> 01:49:03.180
That's what travel does for you though.

01:49:03.900 --> 01:49:05.310
Travel ab, right?

01:49:05.340 --> 01:49:06.930
Breaks the barriers down, opens you

01:49:06.935 --> 01:49:08.430
Travis Bader: up to different
ideas and perspectives.

01:49:08.435 --> 01:49:11.340
I was always raised, raised,
this is the only way to do it.

01:49:11.340 --> 01:49:14.100
People that do it outside this,
they don't know what's going on.

01:49:14.100 --> 01:49:14.760
They're stupid.

01:49:15.470 --> 01:49:19.620
You travel and you say, huh, these
people seem to be doing okay.

01:49:19.620 --> 01:49:22.830
They're doing things completely
contradictory to how I was raised.

01:49:22.920 --> 01:49:23.490
Nathan Kapler: Shocking.

01:49:23.490 --> 01:49:26.400
Are my biases getting in the way,
or are my experiences getting in

01:49:26.400 --> 01:49:28.020
the way of how I perceive life?

01:49:28.080 --> 01:49:28.320
Right?

01:49:29.130 --> 01:49:29.370
Yeah.

01:49:29.670 --> 01:49:30.810
That's the beauty of travel.

01:49:30.810 --> 01:49:31.260
Mm-hmm.

01:49:31.740 --> 01:49:32.790
And very much like you.

01:49:32.790 --> 01:49:35.570
I know I asked myself some very hard
questions getting into fatherhood.

01:49:35.570 --> 01:49:37.200
What kind of father do I want to be?

01:49:37.350 --> 01:49:38.790
And especially for me to have a girl.

01:49:38.790 --> 01:49:40.170
The first, first kid was a girl.

01:49:40.175 --> 01:49:40.410
Mm-hmm.

01:49:40.680 --> 01:49:44.880
And she came at a time where I
needed my heart to open up again.

01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:45.120
Mm.

01:49:45.570 --> 01:49:47.400
I needed to really feel that love again.

01:49:47.850 --> 01:49:52.950
And she came at a time where she did just
that the universe unfolds as it should.

01:49:52.955 --> 01:49:53.250
Right.

01:49:53.250 --> 01:49:54.330
It was a gift.

01:49:54.335 --> 01:49:54.690
Mm-hmm.

01:49:55.190 --> 01:49:58.490
And that little girl to this
day, I mean, there is you.

01:49:58.495 --> 01:50:01.020
You see how daughters are so special.

01:50:01.025 --> 01:50:02.430
Sons are special too, in their own way.

01:50:03.990 --> 01:50:08.100
But you just see, you see what it does
to you as a man, how it softens you.

01:50:10.320 --> 01:50:11.160
My first child

01:50:11.160 --> 01:50:13.380
Travis Bader: was a girl,
and that's what I wanted.

01:50:13.710 --> 01:50:17.190
And I wanted that because I'm a boy.

01:50:17.220 --> 01:50:18.420
I've got a couple brothers.

01:50:18.570 --> 01:50:19.710
I know how boys work.

01:50:21.360 --> 01:50:23.790
I wanted the challenge of learning.

01:50:24.795 --> 01:50:25.845
How a daughter works.

01:50:25.905 --> 01:50:30.885
So I figured that would be a
better thing for me as a father.

01:50:31.184 --> 01:50:34.335
So that the best predictor
of future performance is

01:50:34.335 --> 01:50:35.655
past performance in the fall.

01:50:35.655 --> 01:50:38.625
You have to rely on, are
certain past tactics and ideas.

01:50:39.014 --> 01:50:42.705
Maybe it's better to start with this
blank slate with a girl worked out well.

01:50:42.710 --> 01:50:44.625
Second child is a boy similar to you.

01:50:44.865 --> 01:50:45.045
Yeah.

01:50:47.385 --> 01:50:47.955
Nathan Kapler: Interesting.

01:50:50.295 --> 01:50:54.885
And these, these lessons that you
have no idea that are coming for

01:50:54.889 --> 01:50:57.705
you in life are coming for you.

01:50:57.795 --> 01:51:01.304
And that's why like, I'm, I wanna make
sure we take the time today to talk about

01:51:01.309 --> 01:51:06.735
these, cuz these are very, very important
in the overall kind of, uh, encompassing

01:51:06.735 --> 01:51:09.014
theme that we're talking about
today, which is how do you stay well?

01:51:09.315 --> 01:51:09.525
Mm-hmm.

01:51:09.554 --> 01:51:10.605
How do you care for others?

01:51:10.724 --> 01:51:11.445
How do you love them?

01:51:11.894 --> 01:51:13.184
How do you have compassion for them?

01:51:13.755 --> 01:51:14.474
How do you lead them?

01:51:14.865 --> 01:51:17.054
How do you do things to
set them up for success?

01:51:17.054 --> 01:51:20.175
This journey is, you know, at certain
points, I think in the journey,

01:51:20.175 --> 01:51:23.485
we look at it as a very indivi,
individualistic journey where we try to

01:51:23.775 --> 01:51:25.545
amass, you know, success for ourselves.

01:51:25.545 --> 01:51:28.455
We then have a family and then we start
to learn about providing for others.

01:51:29.235 --> 01:51:30.705
And then we also learn about community.

01:51:30.705 --> 01:51:31.724
The value of community.

01:51:31.724 --> 01:51:34.695
Making sure that you're also investing
not only in yourself, but your

01:51:34.695 --> 01:51:37.815
family and others and the community
around you and the people around you.

01:51:39.224 --> 01:51:43.755
And it becomes less individualistic
and, and that's a great place to be too.

01:51:43.755 --> 01:51:47.415
I think as young men, we tend to
live in more of an individualistic.

01:51:47.970 --> 01:51:48.720
Me, me, me.

01:51:48.780 --> 01:51:50.160
I'm more worried about me.

01:51:50.220 --> 01:51:53.310
Let's go out and get me, you know,
like, get, let's get what I want.

01:51:53.520 --> 01:51:54.900
Travis Bader: Your eyes
are too close together.

01:51:55.010 --> 01:51:55.330
I, I,

01:51:55.450 --> 01:51:56.880
Nathan Kapler: I, I, I, I, right?

01:51:56.880 --> 01:51:59.310
And it, you, you have to go
and put those things together.

01:51:59.310 --> 01:52:01.860
But always, always look at
others too and invest in others.

01:52:01.865 --> 01:52:06.520
I mean, this, we're, we're here
for a very short time, 80 years.

01:52:07.180 --> 01:52:11.400
And we gotta make sure we leave
this place in, in a decent shape.

01:52:12.660 --> 01:52:14.730
Travis Bader: You follow Ellen Watts?

01:52:15.600 --> 01:52:16.170
Nathan Kapler: No, I don't.

01:52:16.410 --> 01:52:16.680
Okay.

01:52:17.400 --> 01:52:19.080
Travis Bader: Well, he's deceased.

01:52:19.080 --> 01:52:23.130
I think his son puts out some stuff, but
he's, uh, very interesting individual.

01:52:23.135 --> 01:52:27.320
Anyways, there's a one talk that
he does and he's says, you know, we

01:52:27.360 --> 01:52:32.190
grow up, we go to school, we're told
work hard study, get good grades.

01:52:32.250 --> 01:52:34.200
You know, you're getting
this thing's coming.

01:52:34.205 --> 01:52:35.670
It's gonna be fantastic.

01:52:35.880 --> 01:52:37.890
You get through elementary
school, Hey, it's high school.

01:52:37.890 --> 01:52:39.540
That's the next step in the evolution.

01:52:40.080 --> 01:52:41.010
We're gonna work hard.

01:52:41.010 --> 01:52:42.000
We're gonna get good grades.

01:52:42.005 --> 01:52:42.960
High school ends.

01:52:43.350 --> 01:52:43.760
We did well.

01:52:43.770 --> 01:52:47.820
We're into university or college, or into
trade school, or whatever it might be.

01:52:48.270 --> 01:52:52.050
Next thing you know, you graduate that
and you're into your job and starting

01:52:52.050 --> 01:52:53.820
at a low level, but working your way up.

01:52:53.825 --> 01:52:57.390
And before you know it, all your hard
work and your effort has been put in

01:52:57.390 --> 01:53:01.800
and you're, you're now in a managerial
position, or maybe you own the company

01:53:01.800 --> 01:53:06.780
and at some point you stop and you look
around and say, where is this awesome

01:53:06.780 --> 01:53:07.950
thing that I've been working for?

01:53:08.370 --> 01:53:12.540
Where is that thing that has been
promised to me this entire time that

01:53:12.540 --> 01:53:14.760
I keep on striving for the next level?

01:53:15.240 --> 01:53:16.560
And he says, you've been lied to.

01:53:17.535 --> 01:53:19.575
The whole process is like a musical.

01:53:19.575 --> 01:53:21.945
You're supposed to sing and you're
supposed to dance along the way.

01:53:28.965 --> 01:53:31.845
Nathan Kapler: When I became a Mountie,
I walked through the halls and I saw

01:53:31.845 --> 01:53:38.115
the older boys and I took a look at
them and I said, where are you in life?

01:53:38.325 --> 01:53:39.345
Are you happy?

01:53:41.355 --> 01:53:43.605
Comparing, probably shouldn't
have done it, but I did.

01:53:45.225 --> 01:53:52.035
And I saw a lot of older mounts,
bitter negative, filled with

01:53:52.035 --> 01:53:56.475
cynicism, probably doing some things
they shouldn't have been doing.

01:53:56.715 --> 01:53:56.875
Hmm.

01:53:58.205 --> 01:54:04.425
And I always thought in that moment, how
the hell do you get to that place where

01:54:04.425 --> 01:54:10.395
you give up your morals or you give up
your passions in the pursuit of what?

01:54:11.625 --> 01:54:12.195
Promotion?

01:54:13.215 --> 01:54:13.665
Money.

01:54:16.485 --> 01:54:17.565
Political status.

01:54:17.815 --> 01:54:18.035
Ego.

01:54:18.535 --> 01:54:18.755
Ego.

01:54:19.785 --> 01:54:20.845
What's driving that?

01:54:22.485 --> 01:54:25.965
Do you really want to be here
when you're on your deathbed?

01:54:26.325 --> 01:54:27.855
Is this the way you want your story told?

01:54:29.805 --> 01:54:32.775
And I've always tried to remember
that there was a time where I

01:54:32.775 --> 01:54:34.845
chased the carrot on the stick.

01:54:35.175 --> 01:54:35.595
Mm-hmm.

01:54:36.525 --> 01:54:37.485
And I never got close to it.

01:54:38.615 --> 01:54:40.125
It was always just outta reach.

01:54:41.475 --> 01:54:43.095
You're always chasing that next step.

01:54:43.185 --> 01:54:44.025
How do I get closer?

01:54:44.085 --> 01:54:44.775
You never really do.

01:54:47.595 --> 01:54:50.895
And I think for me, one of the
biggest moments of growth too that

01:54:50.900 --> 01:54:55.935
happened for me was when I finally
recognized that my identity was so

01:54:55.935 --> 01:54:57.765
wrapped up in being a police officer.

01:54:59.205 --> 01:55:01.005
That it was the very thing
that I needed to give up

01:55:04.365 --> 01:55:07.215
and I needed to let go in order to grow.

01:55:09.765 --> 01:55:11.985
And I made that call and
that's when I retired.

01:55:13.995 --> 01:55:18.945
And I equate it to a moment where I
didn't have much of a backup plan.

01:55:18.945 --> 01:55:23.175
In 2021, I had this delusional
thought of, Hey, I should start a

01:55:23.175 --> 01:55:25.305
podcast cuz that's gonna be great.

01:55:27.705 --> 01:55:28.635
And there was no money in it.

01:55:28.665 --> 01:55:33.075
I knew that, but I knew that what I would
get back from doing this in a different

01:55:33.075 --> 01:55:37.455
way was gonna be worth more down the road.

01:55:38.055 --> 01:55:39.105
Oh, a thousand percent.

01:55:39.375 --> 01:55:40.175
A thousand percent.

01:55:40.395 --> 01:55:43.695
And I stood on the edge of that cliff,
and I remember having that conversation

01:55:43.695 --> 01:55:49.035
with the RCMP and they asked me, you
know, what are you gonna do here?

01:55:50.235 --> 01:55:52.636
And there's a bit of a story behind
this that led me to this point.

01:55:52.641 --> 01:55:57.975
But as I stood on that cliff, I thought,
man, oh man, this is, this is it.

01:55:59.445 --> 01:55:59.835
You know?

01:55:59.835 --> 01:56:03.075
And I think men were, were
here at least once in life too.

01:56:03.585 --> 01:56:05.595
I stood on the edge of that
cliff and I, I thought to

01:56:05.595 --> 01:56:08.505
myself, I've got no backup plan.

01:56:09.555 --> 01:56:10.665
I've got no parachute.

01:56:11.035 --> 01:56:13.145
I don't know where this goes.

01:56:14.610 --> 01:56:18.990
I don't know if there's a failure that's
coming in that's going to rock my world.

01:56:19.770 --> 01:56:25.620
I don't know if this is a mistake,
but I knew I had to jump without

01:56:25.620 --> 01:56:27.240
those safety things in place.

01:56:29.340 --> 01:56:31.830
And that was one of the most
liberating things where I finally

01:56:31.830 --> 01:56:35.970
stood up and I said, I'm not
taking this from you anymore.

01:56:37.440 --> 01:56:37.831
I'm moving on.

01:56:38.580 --> 01:56:41.580
I'm shunning the door, and I'm
growing from this experience.

01:56:43.790 --> 01:56:44.280
Travis Bader: Massive.

01:56:44.970 --> 01:56:47.040
So many people live
their whole life in fear.

01:56:47.490 --> 01:56:51.750
Fear of what could be around the
corner, fear of what others may perceive

01:56:51.750 --> 01:56:54.210
of them, fear of just the unknown.

01:56:56.130 --> 01:57:01.200
How incredibly liberating
is that to say, screw it.

01:57:01.230 --> 01:57:06.360
I'm doing it anyways, because somehow
it always works out in the end, and if

01:57:06.360 --> 01:57:08.190
it hasn't worked out, it's not the end.

01:57:09.510 --> 01:57:12.090
Nathan Kapler: What, what that
taught me too was that I didn't have

01:57:12.090 --> 01:57:14.220
a great deal of trust for myself.

01:57:16.380 --> 01:57:16.710
Hmm.

01:57:19.440 --> 01:57:23.730
And I knew in that moment, I had to learn
how to trust myself and the decisions

01:57:23.730 --> 01:57:27.690
that I was making because I had been
so set up with this dream of becoming

01:57:27.690 --> 01:57:31.260
a police officer and getting that dream
when as a young man and now working

01:57:31.260 --> 01:57:36.510
in that black and white world, and
it, it stunted me to a degree, right?

01:57:36.515 --> 01:57:36.760
Mm-hmm.

01:57:36.900 --> 01:57:38.160
It kills your creative ability.

01:57:38.400 --> 01:57:38.640
Mm-hmm.

01:57:39.100 --> 01:57:41.190
It doesn't allow you to have that passion.

01:57:41.480 --> 01:57:41.830
Right.

01:57:43.035 --> 01:57:45.405
Who you, we were just talking
about, what's his name?

01:57:45.974 --> 01:57:46.575
Ellen Watts.

01:57:46.634 --> 01:57:47.264
Ellen Watts.

01:57:47.355 --> 01:57:47.625
Yeah.

01:57:47.894 --> 01:57:48.945
That's slippery slope, right?

01:57:48.945 --> 01:57:51.195
Of pursuing something that
you think is the answer.

01:57:52.365 --> 01:57:53.684
But where does it actually take you?

01:57:53.924 --> 01:57:54.915
It wasn't taking me anywhere.

01:57:54.919 --> 01:57:55.394
Well,

01:57:58.365 --> 01:58:03.705
Travis Bader: I think there's a fear in
people of wanting to give up, be viewed as

01:58:03.705 --> 01:58:06.735
a quitter leaving something running away.

01:58:06.974 --> 01:58:11.655
When maybe that little shift in
perspective, are you running away from

01:58:11.655 --> 01:58:14.384
something or are you running towards
something that's more desirable?

01:58:14.865 --> 01:58:15.044
Well,

01:58:15.044 --> 01:58:17.384
Nathan Kapler: and I remember making
this call and I immediately, I thought,

01:58:17.384 --> 01:58:18.674
I was like, am I gonna be judged?

01:58:18.705 --> 01:58:21.705
Like are all of my peers going
to look at this and be like,

01:58:21.705 --> 01:58:24.585
oh, Nate is like, he's gone.

01:58:25.844 --> 01:58:26.235
Right?

01:58:26.235 --> 01:58:30.044
He is not even close
to stable or whatever.

01:58:30.735 --> 01:58:38.294
And learning to, to trust yourself
and to take that step and to not

01:58:38.294 --> 01:58:43.125
allow that wolf to continue to drive
that narrative for you, taught me

01:58:43.125 --> 01:58:48.254
that I'm actually better connected to
these individuals now that I've left.

01:58:48.735 --> 01:58:50.804
Travis Bader: I bet you they look
at you and say, damn, I wish I

01:58:50.804 --> 01:58:51.764
could do something like that.

01:58:52.065 --> 01:58:55.065
Nathan Kapler: So many of them call
me and say how I wish I could retire.

01:58:55.065 --> 01:58:56.655
I wish I had the guts to retire.

01:58:56.655 --> 01:58:56.955
Mm-hmm.

01:58:57.464 --> 01:58:58.094
I just can't.

01:58:58.094 --> 01:58:58.785
I'm not there yet.

01:58:59.085 --> 01:59:00.174
And they stay stuck.

01:59:00.875 --> 01:59:01.094
And

01:59:01.394 --> 01:59:03.044
Travis Bader: you work to
retirement age and then what?

01:59:03.674 --> 01:59:06.464
Maybe you die the next week,
maybe you'll live on further.

01:59:06.464 --> 01:59:09.405
But how was that time in between
that you spent, was that worthwhile?

01:59:09.405 --> 01:59:10.004
Did that bring you

01:59:10.004 --> 01:59:10.485
Nathan Kapler: happiness?

01:59:11.250 --> 01:59:13.380
And not even just, well, yeah, happiness.

01:59:13.380 --> 01:59:15.990
I mean, in the pursuit of happiness,
that's a totally different topic we

01:59:15.990 --> 01:59:17.280
could talk about for hours, right?

01:59:17.280 --> 01:59:17.460
Like

01:59:17.940 --> 01:59:19.500
Travis Bader: that's an
oxymoron unto itself.

01:59:19.500 --> 01:59:20.850
You cannot pursue happiness.

01:59:20.850 --> 01:59:21.540
You can't.

01:59:21.600 --> 01:59:22.740
No, it's fake.

01:59:22.740 --> 01:59:22.980
Yeah.

01:59:24.900 --> 01:59:27.990
If you pursue happiness and it's
always gonna be outta your reach.

01:59:27.995 --> 01:59:31.410
In the same way with the, my
business, I've always said, I'm

01:59:31.410 --> 01:59:32.250
not gonna look at the money.

01:59:32.250 --> 01:59:33.840
You ask it with the
numbers in the podcast.

01:59:33.930 --> 01:59:34.410
I don't know.

01:59:34.980 --> 01:59:37.590
I mean, once in a while I've looked
at like charitable and stuff,

01:59:37.590 --> 01:59:39.210
Hey, we're raking on the top 10.

01:59:39.210 --> 01:59:40.080
This is great, right?

01:59:40.260 --> 01:59:42.930
But what, what's the money situation?

01:59:42.935 --> 01:59:43.320
I don't know.

01:59:43.380 --> 01:59:46.830
The accountants will let me know if I
can buy stuff or shouldn't buy stuff.

01:59:46.830 --> 01:59:51.870
I mean, if I chase something that drives
me, that I'm passionate about, that brings

01:59:51.870 --> 01:59:57.690
other people value, money's gonna be a
natural byproduct of that happiness wound.

01:59:57.690 --> 01:59:57.900
Sue

01:59:58.170 --> 01:59:59.730
Nathan Kapler: and I learned
that very early on too.

01:59:59.880 --> 02:00:02.190
You know, what are your motivating
factors to get where you're going?

02:00:02.700 --> 02:00:05.580
If you let money be the driver of
that bus, it's not gonna go well.

02:00:06.120 --> 02:00:08.730
Travis Bader: I mean, some people sure
that that's your thing and maybe that's

02:00:08.730 --> 02:00:11.460
what brings them happiness, but I think
for the majority of people out there,

02:00:12.090 --> 02:00:14.780
that's an empty, very hollow victory.

02:00:15.660 --> 02:00:16.710
Nathan Kapler: Yeah, it really is.

02:00:16.980 --> 02:00:22.530
Um, so yeah, men's Mental Health
Month, here we are, June, we

02:00:22.530 --> 02:00:24.090
just covered a ton of stuff.

02:00:24.600 --> 02:00:29.520
But again, this, this, this jump from the
cliff without having the safety net and

02:00:29.520 --> 02:00:34.200
the fear of taking action and how is it
going to be perceived, those were all very

02:00:34.205 --> 02:00:35.910
legitimate thoughts I had along the way.

02:00:35.915 --> 02:00:38.040
And sure they could have
stopped me from jumping.

02:00:38.445 --> 02:00:41.805
I could have answered or at least
acknowledged that, and took,

02:00:42.225 --> 02:00:43.845
took action from that place.

02:00:44.235 --> 02:00:48.015
But instead, I just kept telling myself,
no, just you don't understand this.

02:00:48.020 --> 02:00:49.335
Retire, you're done.

02:00:49.755 --> 02:00:52.575
I talk about it on the
podcast as to why it was done.

02:00:52.785 --> 02:00:52.905
Hmm.

02:00:52.935 --> 02:00:53.235
Right.

02:00:53.325 --> 02:00:56.355
I, I knew it was done and I jumped.

02:00:56.360 --> 02:01:01.635
And what I found again was that the
connection that I had while I was

02:01:01.635 --> 02:01:06.495
a police officer to other police
officers wasn't as good as it is now.

02:01:06.855 --> 02:01:07.155
Mm-hmm.

02:01:08.115 --> 02:01:10.305
I'm way better connected
now with my buddies.

02:01:10.305 --> 02:01:12.135
We have way deeper conversations.

02:01:12.140 --> 02:01:13.905
We talk like this, we talk about life.

02:01:13.905 --> 02:01:14.805
What are you struggling with?

02:01:14.805 --> 02:01:15.615
What's going on?

02:01:15.620 --> 02:01:15.785
Mm-hmm.

02:01:16.095 --> 02:01:16.755
How hard is it?

02:01:17.655 --> 02:01:18.165
It's okay.

02:01:18.165 --> 02:01:18.615
Get it out.

02:01:18.885 --> 02:01:19.185
Right.

02:01:19.575 --> 02:01:22.125
Police o and police officers hate
talking about their emotions.

02:01:22.245 --> 02:01:22.365
Right.

02:01:22.695 --> 02:01:25.215
They're not scared of anything
except for their own emotions.

02:01:25.220 --> 02:01:25.355
Totally.

02:01:25.845 --> 02:01:26.175
Right.

02:01:26.505 --> 02:01:27.105
Men too.

02:01:27.110 --> 02:01:27.165
Yeah.

02:01:28.125 --> 02:01:30.255
So, and what has this done for myself?

02:01:30.255 --> 02:01:32.895
You know, what kind of opportunity
has this created for myself?

02:01:32.895 --> 02:01:36.675
And I mean, when you take these,
these jumps, these fearful jumps,

02:01:37.245 --> 02:01:39.915
they create the most amazing growth.

02:01:39.945 --> 02:01:45.465
My life since leaving has just continued
to grow in so many different ways.

02:01:46.035 --> 02:01:48.645
I do not regret leaving
at all at 14 years.

02:01:48.650 --> 02:01:50.505
I know a lot of people say,
how did you leave at 14 years?

02:01:50.535 --> 02:01:53.446
Don't you feel sad that you don't
make it to 20 or get a full pension?

02:01:55.245 --> 02:01:55.665
No.

02:01:56.475 --> 02:01:56.775
Hmm.

02:01:56.925 --> 02:01:57.585
I'm happier.

02:01:58.005 --> 02:01:58.545
Awesome.

02:01:59.235 --> 02:01:59.865
I'm good.

02:02:00.525 --> 02:02:02.175
I'm pursuing what I want to pursue.

02:02:02.235 --> 02:02:04.485
My, my life is rich.

02:02:05.505 --> 02:02:05.745
That's

02:02:05.745 --> 02:02:06.165
Travis Bader: amazing.

02:02:08.415 --> 02:02:09.675
Do you have a bear story you want to tell?

02:02:10.035 --> 02:02:10.394
Oh,

02:02:10.394 --> 02:02:11.775
Nathan Kapler: do I ever, let's hear this.

02:02:11.955 --> 02:02:15.105
So before we talk bears again,
hunting, beautiful thing.

02:02:15.764 --> 02:02:18.405
Uh, again, in, in my story
too about mental health, you

02:02:18.405 --> 02:02:20.355
know, what are the, some of the
things that I did to get better?

02:02:20.655 --> 02:02:23.144
Uh, I had to learn how
to reconnect with people.

02:02:23.505 --> 02:02:23.745
Hmm.

02:02:23.775 --> 02:02:26.445
But another part of this too is I had
to learn how to reconnect with nature.

02:02:27.065 --> 02:02:27.415
Right.

02:02:27.415 --> 02:02:29.115
And that's where hunting comes in.

02:02:29.115 --> 02:02:30.525
Hunting is something phenomenal for us.

02:02:30.525 --> 02:02:31.845
We've been doing it for hundreds of years.

02:02:31.845 --> 02:02:32.805
It's hardwired into us.

02:02:32.865 --> 02:02:33.045
Mm-hmm.

02:02:33.224 --> 02:02:35.985
We go out, we get the fresh air,
we walk around, we're moving the

02:02:35.985 --> 02:02:37.575
body, we're paying attention.

02:02:38.115 --> 02:02:39.135
We're living in the moment.

02:02:39.139 --> 02:02:40.245
We're grounded.

02:02:40.245 --> 02:02:41.805
We're having these amazing experiences.

02:02:41.805 --> 02:02:43.695
I don't hunt to go and get food.

02:02:44.115 --> 02:02:44.535
Agreed.

02:02:45.335 --> 02:02:51.165
I hunt to go and have an experience
with other people who want to do that.

02:02:51.224 --> 02:02:51.434
Right.

02:02:51.434 --> 02:02:53.474
Your tribe, you're going out,
you're having an adventure.

02:02:53.805 --> 02:02:55.545
You're so well connected.

02:02:56.055 --> 02:02:57.195
So well connected.

02:02:57.315 --> 02:02:57.495
Mm-hmm.

02:02:57.545 --> 02:02:58.995
Ending the night off with a campfire.

02:03:00.105 --> 02:03:01.635
We used to do this for hundreds of years.

02:03:03.165 --> 02:03:05.085
We're going back to that
more primitive way of life.

02:03:05.085 --> 02:03:05.325
Right.

02:03:05.330 --> 02:03:06.105
Simple, no phones.

02:03:06.205 --> 02:03:06.625
Mm-hmm.

02:03:07.485 --> 02:03:07.845
Right.

02:03:07.845 --> 02:03:08.595
Who doesn't want that?

02:03:09.345 --> 02:03:10.125
So, hunting.

02:03:10.125 --> 02:03:11.025
Hunting for me too.

02:03:11.025 --> 02:03:13.665
I mean, if anyone listens to this Yeah.

02:03:14.474 --> 02:03:18.075
Go hunt or go take a walk
in the bush with a gun.

02:03:18.434 --> 02:03:18.705
Mm-hmm.

02:03:19.305 --> 02:03:20.474
Whatever you want to call it.

02:03:22.335 --> 02:03:24.434
It's, it's one of the best
things you can do for yourself

02:03:24.434 --> 02:03:25.665
in the science that backs us up.

02:03:25.665 --> 02:03:25.965
Is, is there.

02:03:26.445 --> 02:03:26.625
Mm-hmm.

02:03:27.165 --> 02:03:27.495
Right.

02:03:28.690 --> 02:03:32.474
There's so many different aspects
to this, but the bear story, yes.

02:03:32.535 --> 02:03:39.525
So I was, I must have been two years,
two or three years into my service

02:03:39.644 --> 02:03:43.184
and had started to develop enough of
a, a cocky attitude that I kind of

02:03:43.184 --> 02:03:44.355
thought, ah, I'm never gonna get hurt.

02:03:44.355 --> 02:03:44.625
Right.

02:03:45.165 --> 02:03:48.165
I'm in uniform, I'm in Whistler,
I'm doing the general duty thing.

02:03:48.465 --> 02:03:50.745
I get a call one night that a
bear is trying to break into

02:03:50.745 --> 02:03:51.945
someone's house in Whistler.

02:03:52.215 --> 02:03:53.054
This is very common.

02:03:53.144 --> 02:03:53.474
Sure.

02:03:53.804 --> 02:03:54.135
Right.

02:03:54.135 --> 02:03:55.245
This happens all the time.

02:03:55.304 --> 02:03:55.365
Yeah.

02:03:55.365 --> 02:03:57.735
In fact, there was lots of
times where I'd go to a call

02:03:57.735 --> 02:03:59.505
where a bear was in the house.

02:03:59.684 --> 02:04:03.945
He was in the kitchen standing up on his
hind legs with the doors open, grabbing

02:04:03.945 --> 02:04:05.416
a box of cereal and chowing down.

02:04:05.474 --> 02:04:05.764
Yeah.

02:04:05.925 --> 02:04:07.245
Stuff was all over the counter.

02:04:07.245 --> 02:04:08.474
These guys, they're smart.

02:04:08.655 --> 02:04:08.865
Mm-hmm.

02:04:09.165 --> 02:04:12.224
They will find the food and people
were locked in their bedrooms scared.

02:04:12.224 --> 02:04:12.405
Right.

02:04:12.405 --> 02:04:13.394
Hiding up on the dresser.

02:04:13.425 --> 02:04:14.405
Cops come save us.

02:04:15.255 --> 02:04:15.525
Right.

02:04:15.525 --> 02:04:18.855
We don't know if it's a drunk Ozzie in
town that came into our place or a bear.

02:04:18.855 --> 02:04:19.665
We have no idea.

02:04:19.670 --> 02:04:19.684
Travis Bader: Yeah.

02:04:19.684 --> 02:04:20.445
It could be one or the other.

02:04:20.445 --> 02:04:20.724
It is.

02:04:20.724 --> 02:04:21.245
Could be one or the other.

02:04:21.250 --> 02:04:21.525
Nathan Kapler: Whistler.

02:04:21.585 --> 02:04:21.764
Right.

02:04:21.764 --> 02:04:22.545
That's, it's Whistler.

02:04:23.594 --> 02:04:26.894
So we get this call that one night
there's a bear that's trying to get

02:04:26.894 --> 02:04:30.075
into this house and I, I kind of was
at the point where I was just like,

02:04:30.075 --> 02:04:31.575
oh, this is just another bear call.

02:04:31.575 --> 02:04:32.445
I'll just go show up.

02:04:32.445 --> 02:04:33.045
It'll be easy.

02:04:33.050 --> 02:04:35.565
I'll, I'll put a couple
rubber rounds in the shotgun.

02:04:35.565 --> 02:04:40.365
Cuz we had this Bear Smart
Society, uh, thing where we tried

02:04:40.365 --> 02:04:42.224
to save bears lives and not sure.

02:04:42.224 --> 02:04:42.556
Kill them.

02:04:42.675 --> 02:04:42.965
Yeah.

02:04:43.785 --> 02:04:44.835
Uh, and I agree with that.

02:04:44.865 --> 02:04:44.955
Sure.

02:04:44.955 --> 02:04:46.424
You should try to save the bears.

02:04:46.424 --> 02:04:46.695
Right.

02:04:46.695 --> 02:04:47.745
We're in their home too.

02:04:48.554 --> 02:04:50.955
So I put my rubber
rounds into the shotgun.

02:04:50.955 --> 02:04:53.865
I go off to the bear call, I
got a partner with me and I'm

02:04:53.865 --> 02:04:54.915
just like, Hey, you know what?

02:04:54.920 --> 02:04:56.115
You're gonna be on my back.

02:04:56.295 --> 02:04:59.625
We're gonna go clear this property
and make sure the bears taking off.

02:05:00.045 --> 02:05:02.155
And this house was
literally on the hillside.

02:05:02.254 --> 02:05:03.254
On the mountain.

02:05:03.254 --> 02:05:03.344
Mm-hmm.

02:05:03.735 --> 02:05:08.865
Like, it was just like, the only part
that was flat to it was the house that

02:05:08.865 --> 02:05:13.545
was like on this piece of ground and
like a little bit of like a piece of

02:05:13.545 --> 02:05:15.315
like walkway that led to the backyard.

02:05:16.035 --> 02:05:17.295
And that's kind of how Whistler is.

02:05:18.045 --> 02:05:23.115
So we rolled up and I remember parking,
uh, the headlights are on the front door.

02:05:23.474 --> 02:05:25.394
I don't see any scratch
marks on the front door.

02:05:25.394 --> 02:05:26.835
I don't see any bear there.

02:05:26.835 --> 02:05:28.184
I don't see anything on the ground.

02:05:28.190 --> 02:05:29.355
No bear scat.

02:05:29.804 --> 02:05:32.684
So I'm like, okay, you know, maybe
the bear was here, maybe he's gone.

02:05:32.684 --> 02:05:34.275
Doesn't look like he got in.

02:05:35.054 --> 02:05:38.025
Uh, make sure you know,
dispatch, Hey, we're here.

02:05:38.565 --> 02:05:39.406
Is the bear still here?

02:05:39.785 --> 02:05:42.375
They're talking on the phone
to the person calling in.

02:05:43.065 --> 02:05:44.025
Nobody really knows.

02:05:44.174 --> 02:05:44.535
Sure.

02:05:44.684 --> 02:05:45.884
Nobody knows where the bear is now.

02:05:47.474 --> 02:05:49.125
So I said, okay to my partner.

02:05:49.184 --> 02:05:51.945
We're gonna get out, we're just
gonna walk around the property, we're

02:05:51.945 --> 02:05:55.545
gonna shine our flashlight and make
sure this bear is, has moved along.

02:05:57.025 --> 02:06:06.465
And as I'm walking down these steps
at the side of the house, I get to

02:06:06.465 --> 02:06:11.085
that spot where there's a very narrow
walkway that's kind of grassed and

02:06:11.085 --> 02:06:12.825
there's a bunch of trees on my left.

02:06:13.185 --> 02:06:14.265
It's very narrow.

02:06:14.265 --> 02:06:17.505
That wraps around the house to the
backyard and I can kind of tell,

02:06:17.505 --> 02:06:20.565
it opens up and there's a backyard
portion to this, to this property.

02:06:21.885 --> 02:06:27.015
So as I'm walking and it's pitch
black and night, like pitch black.

02:06:27.020 --> 02:06:27.035
Mm-hmm.

02:06:27.120 --> 02:06:28.455
There's no light there at all.

02:06:28.605 --> 02:06:34.095
You can see, cuz my eyes have adjusted to
this environment, but it is pitch black.

02:06:34.935 --> 02:06:42.465
So I get to almost the halfway point
of this house and emotion light goes

02:06:42.465 --> 02:06:46.365
off and my eyes are now blinded.

02:06:46.605 --> 02:06:46.925
Mm-hmm.

02:06:47.010 --> 02:06:53.625
I can't see anything, but I can hear
something 20 feet away, dig into the

02:06:53.625 --> 02:06:56.745
ground, assume that sprint position.

02:06:56.835 --> 02:06:57.285
Mm.

02:06:57.495 --> 02:06:59.535
And launch towards you.

02:06:59.715 --> 02:07:01.515
Towards me, not away from me.

02:07:01.635 --> 02:07:02.385
Towards me.

02:07:02.565 --> 02:07:03.225
Whoops.

02:07:03.345 --> 02:07:05.155
And you could hear the huffing.

02:07:05.575 --> 02:07:05.995
Mm-hmm.

02:07:06.405 --> 02:07:07.245
And the grunting.

02:07:07.250 --> 02:07:07.635
Mm-hmm.

02:07:08.265 --> 02:07:12.225
And I thought, no, this is a
missile coming right for me.

02:07:14.055 --> 02:07:15.525
So my eyes are adjusting.

02:07:16.545 --> 02:07:17.655
I can't use them.

02:07:19.245 --> 02:07:21.765
Fight or flight kicks in this bear.

02:07:21.765 --> 02:07:23.765
All I can hear is roof, roof, roof.

02:07:23.985 --> 02:07:26.235
As he's getting closer
and closer and closer.

02:07:26.655 --> 02:07:29.415
So I can hear this and I can
tell this bear is now outta

02:07:29.415 --> 02:07:31.215
the bush, he's running at me.

02:07:31.305 --> 02:07:32.445
Everything sounds different.

02:07:32.445 --> 02:07:33.495
He's on grass and not.

02:07:34.059 --> 02:07:35.115
The forest floor.

02:07:35.155 --> 02:07:35.375
Mm.

02:07:36.345 --> 02:07:39.765
While sprinting at me and I thought,
I can't even see this thing.

02:07:39.765 --> 02:07:43.005
Like I can see this hazy black thing
that's running at me as my eyes are

02:07:43.005 --> 02:07:46.305
adjusting and the lights on and I'm
like, I'm not gonna be able to shoot him.

02:07:46.515 --> 02:07:46.815
Mm-hmm.

02:07:47.265 --> 02:07:47.775
At all.

02:07:47.894 --> 02:07:49.065
I got rubber rounds in the gun.

02:07:49.065 --> 02:07:50.925
If I shoot him, it's
not gonna do anything.

02:07:51.465 --> 02:07:52.605
This is gonna go sideways.

02:07:52.610 --> 02:07:52.635
Mm-hmm.

02:07:53.684 --> 02:07:58.425
So I literally, I can't turn around
and run cuz I still don't have my eyes.

02:07:58.455 --> 02:07:58.575
Yep.

02:08:00.195 --> 02:08:05.085
I dropped down almost into almost
like a lunge position and I try

02:08:05.085 --> 02:08:07.335
to go, how tall is this bear?

02:08:07.425 --> 02:08:09.885
Roughly, where's his head at right now?

02:08:09.890 --> 02:08:09.955
Mm.

02:08:11.335 --> 02:08:16.605
And I rack the shotgun round and I
think this rubber round is all I have.

02:08:17.535 --> 02:08:22.425
I place it parallel to the ground and
pull the trigger and nothing happens.

02:08:23.985 --> 02:08:25.245
Travis Bader: Nothing as in click?

02:08:25.665 --> 02:08:26.235
Nathan Kapler: No

02:08:26.265 --> 02:08:26.925
Travis Bader: click.

02:08:27.375 --> 02:08:28.755
Oh safety's on

02:08:28.785 --> 02:08:29.235
Nathan Kapler: what's going on.

02:08:29.235 --> 02:08:30.075
Safety's on.

02:08:30.075 --> 02:08:30.105
Okay.

02:08:33.075 --> 02:08:42.195
I nearly lose the contents of what's
inside of me in that moment and I go, no,

02:08:42.255 --> 02:08:44.684
I don't have much time here instinctively.

02:08:44.684 --> 02:08:45.585
We're pretty good at training.

02:08:45.765 --> 02:08:46.065
Yep.

02:08:46.335 --> 02:08:47.355
Training on the shotgun.

02:08:47.745 --> 02:08:49.265
I quickly click that safety off.

02:08:51.155 --> 02:08:54.690
And pull the trigger and just
before that round goes off.

02:08:54.690 --> 02:08:57.720
So I had to take my eyes off of the bear
for a second to look down at the gun.

02:08:57.780 --> 02:08:57.990
Mm.

02:08:58.170 --> 02:08:59.640
Cuz it's now down below me.

02:08:59.700 --> 02:09:03.060
And I had to make sure my eyes
are gonna let the thumb hit

02:09:03.065 --> 02:09:04.560
the safety to turn that off.

02:09:05.340 --> 02:09:09.570
As I turn that off, I look back and I
see the muzzle flash and that bear had

02:09:09.570 --> 02:09:13.920
turned his head completely sideways,
opened up his mouth and I saw his white

02:09:13.920 --> 02:09:18.780
shiny teeth no open up and start to
come in on my thigh, my left thigh.

02:09:19.470 --> 02:09:23.160
And I remember just in that moment
seeing the muzzle flash and his

02:09:23.160 --> 02:09:26.190
head turn and I was like, oh no.

02:09:26.190 --> 02:09:27.510
I was like, this is gonna go bad.

02:09:27.510 --> 02:09:30.570
The body literally shut down
all sensation to my left leg.

02:09:30.600 --> 02:09:30.870
Mm.

02:09:30.930 --> 02:09:33.660
And it was like, Matt, your
leg gone bud say goodbye.

02:09:34.560 --> 02:09:40.680
Literally went through that interesting
one round, came off, hit this bear square

02:09:40.680 --> 02:09:44.430
in the head cuz I can remember seeing
the muzzle flash and the round come off

02:09:44.430 --> 02:09:45.990
and hit him square between the eyes.

02:09:45.990 --> 02:09:47.880
Cuz I saw the tough to hair just go poof.

02:09:47.970 --> 02:09:48.360
Yeah.

02:09:49.320 --> 02:09:54.720
And that bear did a hard 90
at the last second and took

02:09:54.720 --> 02:09:55.860
off into the bush beside me.

02:09:56.010 --> 02:09:57.000
Thank God for that.

02:09:58.680 --> 02:09:59.160
Never been so

02:09:59.160 --> 02:10:00.690
Travis Bader: scared in my life, man.

02:10:01.530 --> 02:10:02.580
Yeah, no kidding.

02:10:03.000 --> 02:10:05.610
That's a, uh, that's a damn
close encounter with what

02:10:05.615 --> 02:10:06.520
sounds like an aggressive bear.

02:10:07.680 --> 02:10:07.980
Nathan Kapler: Yeah.

02:10:08.060 --> 02:10:10.020
And predatory aggressive.

02:10:10.200 --> 02:10:11.400
Very predatory bear.

02:10:11.804 --> 02:10:13.184
Very, very predatory bear.

02:10:13.575 --> 02:10:17.264
Uh, the amazing story, I love telling
that story because it's just, it's

02:10:17.264 --> 02:10:21.105
one of those moments where yeah,
something could have really gone bad and

02:10:21.105 --> 02:10:22.545
Travis Bader: that's
ingrained in the mind now.

02:10:22.815 --> 02:10:23.205
Nathan Kapler: Yeah.

02:10:23.210 --> 02:10:24.285
It's ingrained in the mind.

02:10:24.285 --> 02:10:28.215
Like, you know, I, I can better connect
with that story now and really remember.

02:10:28.215 --> 02:10:28.575
Okay.

02:10:28.634 --> 02:10:31.365
Well it wasn't all like
amazing in the moment.

02:10:31.394 --> 02:10:32.565
I was scared shitless.

02:10:32.565 --> 02:10:33.045
Sure.

02:10:33.165 --> 02:10:33.465
Right?

02:10:33.465 --> 02:10:35.355
Like, I thought, oh, this is gonna go bad.

02:10:35.355 --> 02:10:39.405
I'm gonna be going home with a
heavily wounded leg, or possibly

02:10:39.405 --> 02:10:40.875
facing amputation or something.

02:10:40.875 --> 02:10:43.545
This bear, this bear acted
very differently than most

02:10:43.545 --> 02:10:44.535
bears I had come across.

02:10:44.715 --> 02:10:44.955
Sure.

02:10:44.985 --> 02:10:45.644
He was mean.

02:10:45.795 --> 02:10:46.005
Yeah.

02:10:46.215 --> 02:10:46.815
He was angry.

02:10:47.144 --> 02:10:47.565
That's

02:10:47.684 --> 02:10:51.644
Travis Bader: a bear that, uh, maybe
rubber projectiles should not be used on

02:10:51.974 --> 02:10:52.575
Nathan Kapler: Bingo.

02:10:52.724 --> 02:10:53.745
Yeah, bingo.

02:10:53.924 --> 02:10:59.835
But it's, uh, yeah, and I mean,
we won't go down a path of, you

02:10:59.840 --> 02:11:02.974
know, what my partner should have
been doing in the moment, but, um,

02:11:03.915 --> 02:11:05.775
what I will say is, yeah, it's,

02:11:05.835 --> 02:11:06.764
Travis Bader: yeah,
like, I don't like bears.

02:11:06.764 --> 02:11:07.295
I'm hiding in the vehicle.

02:11:09.134 --> 02:11:10.545
Nathan Kapler: Policing is dangerous.

02:11:10.545 --> 02:11:11.115
That's all I'll say.

02:11:12.945 --> 02:11:13.575
Travis Bader: Oh, man.

02:11:13.815 --> 02:11:14.325
I love it.

02:11:14.955 --> 02:11:18.224
Nathan, thank you so much for
being on the so cor podcast.

02:11:18.224 --> 02:11:21.554
We're gonna have links to the
10 33 podcast in here, and any

02:11:21.559 --> 02:11:24.525
other links that will bring you
value or the audience value.

02:11:25.065 --> 02:11:25.365
Thank you.

02:11:25.825 --> 02:11:26.255
Thank you.

02:11:26.264 --> 02:11:26.615
We're

02:11:26.775 --> 02:11:27.525
Nathan Kapler: in this together, brother.