WEBVTT 00:00:03.474 --> 00:00:07.957 Welcome to the Uncut Podcast. 00:00:08.759 --> 00:00:17.923 I'm Pastor Luke and this is Pastor Cameron. And this is the Uncut Podcast where we try to have uncut, honest conversations about, 00:00:18.040 --> 00:00:23.857 faith, life, Bible, ministry, and all the things that we find that are interesting, 00:00:23.857 --> 00:00:29.137 want to talk about, feel like would benefit other people for us to have conversations 00:00:29.137 --> 00:00:37.737 around. Today we're going to be talking about the Asbury Revival, which I guess is that 00:00:37.737 --> 00:00:44.337 what it's being called? I guess it depends on who you ask. So maybe some context for 00:00:44.337 --> 00:00:49.457 if there's anybody out there who hasn't heard, Cameron, would you be able to give a quick 00:00:49.457 --> 00:00:58.337 synopsis of what it is that we're talking about? Sure. Well, quick, probably not. But 00:00:58.337 --> 00:01:03.537 So if you say Asbury Revival and you go to Google and you put in Asbury Revival, you 00:01:03.537 --> 00:01:10.901 could probably get a few different kickbacks because there was an Asbury Revival in 1970, 00:01:11.177 --> 00:01:14.497 most recently. 00:01:14.497 --> 00:01:23.568 But probably in the world of current events, there is something going on at Asbury College, 00:01:23.712 --> 00:01:27.808 in Wilmore, Kentucky. 00:01:28.217 --> 00:01:36.617 Same little town as Asbury Seminary, which is a very famous evangelical seminary. 00:01:36.617 --> 00:01:39.977 But what appears to be happening, or not what appears to be happening, but what is happening 00:01:39.977 --> 00:01:43.417 is almost two weeks ago now, 12 days ago. 00:01:43.670 --> 00:01:50.337 Yeah, so today's February 20th on the day that we're recording this. 00:01:50.337 --> 00:01:58.557 Two weeks ago now at the conclusion of a Wednesday chapel service, which by all accounts was very 00:01:57.929 --> 00:02:05.379 normal type of chap, you know, chapel service. There was no, no revival speaker came in. 00:02:05.581 --> 00:02:10.579 You know, it was not, it was not billed as a revival event or anything like that. 00:02:10.579 --> 00:02:20.779 But that at the conclusion of that chapel service, there was what's being described as just like an overwhelming sense of the presence of God in the room. 00:02:21.047 --> 00:02:32.779 A desire to stay and to linger in the presence of God, to worship, to pray. 00:02:32.779 --> 00:02:46.779 Students began to share testimonies of what God has been doing in their lives and both the testimony of their private repentance, 00:02:46.779 --> 00:02:53.339 but then they're in open air in front of the whole chapel service, publicly repenting of sin. 00:02:54.229 --> 00:03:09.099 And turning to God. And it has that service, that worship, prayer, testimony, 00:03:09.099 --> 00:03:15.359 service has continued to this day. It has not stopped yet. 00:03:15.359 --> 00:03:21.719 Yeah. So just shy of two weeks. Just shy of two weeks. And it's not only has it not stopped, but it's 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:29.959 spread to other locations on campus, other chapels, auditoriums, churches in the area. 00:03:29.959 --> 00:03:37.879 And then there's now reports of it that the same spirit in other... 00:03:39.502 --> 00:03:47.271 I think it's one Belmont University, I think is another where that the same type of thing is, is happening. 00:03:47.748 --> 00:03:54.271 Yeah. So that's what, you know, that's kind of like. The topic. The topic. Right. 00:03:55.130 --> 00:04:00.045 And if you are in, you know, if you're, if you're in the church world at all, which we, 00:04:01.161 --> 00:04:07.271 obviously are, and you maybe you follow people on Instagram and Twitter and you're in the, 00:04:07.418 --> 00:04:11.431 You follow people on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter or TikTok. 00:04:11.431 --> 00:04:17.391 Yeah. Or even if you just are kind of on the, yeah, if you're on the Christian side of social 00:04:17.391 --> 00:04:23.514 media, so you're following those and seeing those like, you regularly see sermons and, 00:04:23.631 --> 00:04:28.731 Christian inspirational videos and stuff in your content, you've probably heard about this. 00:04:28.731 --> 00:04:34.271 You probably have, yeah. And even if you don't, you may have seen it in some national news organizations that 00:04:34.271 --> 00:04:37.011 have picked it up. like Fox News did a thing on it. 00:04:39.011 --> 00:04:46.211 And then some more local channels have picked it up, say, hey, what's going on here? 00:04:46.211 --> 00:04:55.911 Because it's starting to attract thousands of people from all over the country are traveling to Wilmore 00:04:55.911 --> 00:05:00.360 to see what's going on, to seek to experience, 00:05:00.911 --> 00:05:04.006 seek to experience what's going on. 00:05:04.271 --> 00:05:09.271 And, you know, some of those pilgrims are, I think. 00:05:13.211 --> 00:05:19.229 Are going to experience what they perceive as a move of God happening there on campus. 00:05:19.311 --> 00:05:25.152 And others, it's fairly clear, are going with an intent to discredit. 00:05:26.134 --> 00:05:30.944 Or to call into question or to critique or to test the spirits is a lot of what I've seen. 00:05:32.864 --> 00:05:37.744 And then to bring that back to their, you know, whoever their constituents are. 00:05:37.744 --> 00:05:43.584 Yeah, their platform and their constituency. So it's certainly the word is out. 00:05:45.664 --> 00:05:51.504 And I want to say that, well, lots and lots of people have been asking me about this as a pastor. 00:05:51.835 --> 00:05:56.104 If I'm honest, I will tell you two people have asked me about this. 00:05:56.104 --> 00:06:02.224 My wife being one of them and then one other guy that goes to church here asked, hey, what 00:06:02.224 --> 00:06:03.224 do you think about this? 00:06:03.224 --> 00:06:06.164 Because I have been posting about it on social media and part of the reason that I've been 00:06:06.164 --> 00:06:12.464 posting on it on social media is because I have ties to Asbury and seminary and many of 00:06:12.464 --> 00:06:20.004 the people that are posting about it are either seminary professors that I've done significant 00:06:20.004 --> 00:06:28.537 theological work with than good pastoral or theological mentors to me and whom I trust, 00:06:28.663 --> 00:06:33.764 as well as students on campus continue to post about it. 00:06:34.227 --> 00:06:41.484 If you follow me on social media, then you probably have seen some of those things that I've been sharing. 00:06:41.484 --> 00:06:48.024 Yeah, for me, like I'll tell you my exposure to it is I've kind of come by it 00:06:48.024 --> 00:06:54.264 it simply just through suggested videos and stuff on the internet. 00:06:54.264 --> 00:06:58.173 I've seen a number of different people. 00:06:58.866 --> 00:07:07.316 Talking about it from different vantage points in different camps. I've not I've not done any. 00:07:08.916 --> 00:07:14.596 Information seeking so I've not like googled. I've not looked or hunted down for like, 00:07:15.356 --> 00:07:22.816 First-hand accounts. I'm not done any of that not followed any like I'm sure there are some live reporting blogs out there that are following the 00:07:22.816 --> 00:07:25.136 the up to date stuff that's going on. 00:07:25.176 --> 00:07:27.816 At least I don't know. I know that people used to do stuff like that. 00:07:28.033 --> 00:07:34.101 I don't know if people do that anymore. If blogs are dead, but, um, I haven't done any of that. 00:07:34.296 --> 00:07:42.256 So like, I haven't like, you have a probably, you've probably interacted more intentionally with it than I have. 00:07:42.296 --> 00:07:45.296 I've simply just been hearing what other people have been saying. Yeah. 00:07:45.976 --> 00:07:53.321 And, and similarly, I think I've only had one person ask me sort of my general thoughts about this. 00:07:53.936 --> 00:08:00.656 Um, I think, but I think the reason I even suggested that, like, so we got in, 00:08:00.696 --> 00:08:04.136 just for context this morning, we got in, we're like, we should talk about this. 00:08:04.256 --> 00:08:09.196 Like, um, and the reason, one of the reasons I think we should talk about it 00:08:09.196 --> 00:08:12.116 is because I think we have something. 00:08:14.696 --> 00:08:19.296 I think we almost, like, I think we have some things to maybe say about the thing 00:08:19.296 --> 00:08:24.336 itself, but I think we probably have more to say about the conversation that's happening 00:08:24.336 --> 00:08:28.322 around the thing. Does that make sense? It does, yeah. 00:08:29.375 --> 00:08:37.486 What i'm seeing is a lot of people like a lot of the content i'm running into is christian influencer is like. 00:08:37.936 --> 00:08:51.214 Hi when to asbury i was like there these are my thoughts these are my concerns this is what's happening this is what is i think is good this is what i think is bad and then they're making several reels or poster long from videos and, 00:08:51.646 --> 00:08:55.465 blog articles and those things are going viral or being watched. 00:08:55.465 --> 00:09:05.045 And so there's kind of, at least from my view, I'm kind of seeing it from a social media kind of interaction, which is my guess, 00:09:05.045 --> 00:09:09.705 how the vast majority of people are interacting or experiencing it. 00:09:09.745 --> 00:09:12.625 Right. Because we're not there. We're not in person. 00:09:13.505 --> 00:09:17.705 And so the only way in which we have to engage with this is through any sort 00:09:17.705 --> 00:09:25.801 of social media content that is made first hand, second hand, third hand. 00:09:25.945 --> 00:09:31.425 The spirit behind some of that is actually really frustrating to me a little bit. 00:09:31.977 --> 00:09:38.025 And yeah, I'm curious as like, what do you want to go with on this topic? 00:09:38.025 --> 00:09:40.025 Where do we want to? Yeah. 00:09:40.655 --> 00:09:50.085 So I think there's a few things that we could talk about. One is the way it's being portrayed or talked about on various social media platforms by 00:09:50.085 --> 00:09:51.425 various different people. 00:09:51.425 --> 00:10:02.647 It's impossible to catalog every single one. I've seen some that have been like, I think that's a really thoughtful perspective on. 00:10:04.376 --> 00:10:03.899 It. 00:10:04.625 --> 00:10:09.745 And then I've seen others where I'm like, he. 00:10:12.451 --> 00:10:19.185 Like my blood pressure goes up. Yeah. Just hearing it or watching it or like listening to the commentary 00:10:19.185 --> 00:10:27.745 because because of its the commentary is very jaded or biased towards. 00:10:29.510 --> 00:10:36.193 We will not this is not legitimate until I have to try personal Christian influencer have determined that it fits, 00:10:37.063 --> 00:10:39.933 My model for what revival is right? 00:10:40.007 --> 00:10:45.093 And I think that that's part of the question that we couldn't talk about is, 00:10:46.110 --> 00:10:47.893 What is revival? Yeah? 00:10:48.853 --> 00:11:00.693 And I mean I will oh, you know kind of show my hand to begin with is I And this is not to like just kick the can down the road. 00:11:02.133 --> 00:11:07.013 Is that I don't think there's a real good definition for what revival actually is. 00:11:07.013 --> 00:11:13.072 There are books and volumes written on the history of revival. 00:11:13.333 --> 00:11:18.693 In fact, if you read the history of revival in the United States or the history of revival 00:11:18.693 --> 00:11:24.613 in New York state is really interesting if you're living in New York state like we do, 00:11:24.613 --> 00:11:27.913 is a really interesting read. 00:11:27.913 --> 00:11:30.275 We've talked about that. We have talked about that. 00:11:30.753 --> 00:11:34.029 Not here, but me and you have talked about that. Yes, right. 00:11:35.453 --> 00:11:40.772 And so the question of what is revival is I think still an open question. 00:11:42.373 --> 00:11:49.113 And I think it's okay to have differing opinions about what revival is, 00:11:49.113 --> 00:12:01.553 mainly because we see no clear evidence in scripture from Jesus about this is what revival is. So I think it's fine to say, well, my 00:12:01.553 --> 00:12:10.953 definition or understanding of revival is a significant, let's say a significant 00:12:10.953 --> 00:12:18.953 harvest in terms of people's personal salvation who at one time did not believe 00:12:18.953 --> 00:12:23.433 or express faith in Jesus Christ and now do. 00:12:23.433 --> 00:12:29.433 So we like what you would classically see as like Billy Graham, crusade type revival, you know. 00:12:29.433 --> 00:12:32.993 So comes in, proclaims the gospel. 00:12:34.993 --> 00:12:42.780 And for a number of factors involved, you know, like thousands, hundreds, whatever the number would be, 00:12:42.973 --> 00:12:47.973 come to express faith in Jesus Christ, 00:12:49.213 --> 00:12:55.464 and have, surrender their life and repent of their sin and turn to Jesus by faith. 00:12:55.613 --> 00:13:01.000 And it happens on a semi-large, either numerical or geographical scale. 00:13:01.373 --> 00:13:02.773 Would you add time to that? 00:13:03.791 --> 00:13:11.983 What do you mean? Like, let's say you have just like a powerful meeting and number of people. OK. 00:13:12.082 --> 00:13:19.232 Right? Does it need to be a multi-day, multi-thing to be classified as a revival? 00:13:19.232 --> 00:13:23.472 I think that's an interesting question. To this definition, you're kind of building, 00:13:23.472 --> 00:13:27.912 is there a time component to kind of fit maybe the, because what I hear you describing 00:13:27.912 --> 00:13:33.228 is the classical understanding of revival. Is there a time component to that? 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:39.712 Definition. I don't think so. Okay. I doesn't really feel like that. So you could have a single night of revival, 00:13:39.899 --> 00:13:43.532 Yeah, because like when we live in the kingdom of darkness, which we do, 00:13:44.652 --> 00:13:51.992 right when we live in the kingdom of darkness any moment of extraordinary like repentance and salvation is. 00:13:53.880 --> 00:14:01.032 It's like it is a reviving of The work of the Spirit of God amongst us, you know, 00:14:01.333 --> 00:14:08.392 Would you add in addition, you're emphasizing, with that definition, you're emphasizing the. 00:14:09.912 --> 00:14:17.032 Salvific coming to Christ, committing, praying the prayer, like that, whatever, 00:14:17.032 --> 00:14:28.952 however we want to talk about that. Would you include the like renewal of religious 00:14:28.952 --> 00:14:34.336 Fervor. Fervor. Yes. Right? Like, so like, uh, cause I think that would be, at least, 00:14:35.252 --> 00:14:41.012 my up from what I know of the Asbury revival as what is happening now is mostly limited 00:14:41.012 --> 00:14:47.372 to existing Christians. Correct. Partly by its nature of happening on a Christian Bible 00:14:47.372 --> 00:14:54.272 seminary college campus. So that's almost entirely either like recommitments or a re-understanding 00:14:54.272 --> 00:15:01.392 a renewal of faith, but not necessarily a outpouring of new Christians, to my knowledge. 00:15:01.392 --> 00:15:06.213 Right. which is why I say, like, I don't think. 00:15:07.671 --> 00:15:14.481 The definition of revival remains in flux, you know, because in a situation like this, 00:15:14.481 --> 00:15:20.961 it's what's happening at Asbury now. And even what happened in 1970 at Asbury is not so much, 00:15:20.961 --> 00:15:26.153 like you said, Billy Graham in a big stadium, lots of you bring on your non-Christian friends, 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:30.641 you know, hopefully Jesus will meet with them there or they will respond to the call that Jesus 00:15:30.641 --> 00:15:37.046 places on their heart. But what seems to be happening at Asbury is that, like you said, 00:15:37.307 --> 00:15:43.601 those who have already expressed faith in Jesus Christ to some degree in most cases, right? We 00:15:43.601 --> 00:15:47.749 don't, I don't, we don't know the situation. Right. I know there were people in my, 00:15:47.947 --> 00:15:52.881 that I went to call it Bible college sat in theology classes with who did not know Jesus. 00:15:52.881 --> 00:15:59.361 That happens. Sure. But it seems to be a movement, not of first time salvation, 00:15:59.361 --> 00:16:07.921 But it seems to be a movement where like the awe of God, the holiness of God, the glory of God. 00:16:09.175 --> 00:16:16.721 Has been renewed in their hearts and minds and lives in that moment. And they are responding, 00:16:17.583 --> 00:16:24.321 with worship and they are responding with repentance. Because you know, you don't just 00:16:24.321 --> 00:16:32.743 just repent once, right? You repent daily. They're responding with word of testimony. 00:16:33.281 --> 00:16:47.281 What has God done for me? How is he setting me free? What am I repenting of? And it is, 00:16:47.401 --> 00:16:54.641 I will say for lack of a better term, self-contained within the Christian community and not spreading 00:16:54.641 --> 00:17:00.407 into like calls for salvation for those who don't believe. 00:17:01.001 --> 00:17:01.649 Right. 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:10.370 We pray and hope one affects the other, right? And I think that's where even Asbury, even now, 00:17:11.182 --> 00:17:20.050 is moving in the direction where they're beginning to say, we're creating a stop essentially to the. 00:17:21.010 --> 00:17:26.450 Practice of renewal or revival that is happening on campus with the intentionality of taking 00:17:26.450 --> 00:17:31.410 what's happening and moving out on mission, which is part of their institution's core values. 00:17:31.410 --> 00:17:41.250 And so maybe it morphs from an upwelling of worship in a Christian context to now a push 00:17:41.250 --> 00:17:49.290 in mission into the world, which hello, that's the church. That's the church. 00:17:49.290 --> 00:18:04.410 So while I understand to some degree some people going down to Asbury with the intent of discerning 00:18:04.410 --> 00:18:11.250 the spirits, testing the spirits, what's going on, I think a lot of what is happening is 00:18:11.250 --> 00:18:21.067 is presupposing a certain model or format of what revival is or isn't, looks like or doesn't look like. 00:18:21.290 --> 00:18:27.999 And then if it doesn't, what's happening doesn't fit into the already presupposed model, then, 00:18:28.116 --> 00:18:30.519 automatically it's illegitimate. 00:18:31.290 --> 00:18:37.450 It's false. It's overly emotional. Which I think is- Or it's contrived. 00:18:37.450 --> 00:18:39.450 Or it's contrived. Yeah. 00:18:41.943 --> 00:18:49.550 I, I, to be honest with you, I have a really hard time understanding the mindset that a 00:18:49.550 --> 00:18:55.491 follower of Jesus would have to get themselves into to look at what's happening and to read, 00:18:56.419 --> 00:19:01.694 pretty much all of the firsthand accounts of it and to say, well, this is not, this isn't a good thing. 00:19:01.937 --> 00:19:07.810 Yeah. like, listen, 12 days of uninterrupted worship. 00:19:10.730 --> 00:19:12.002 Can we just call that good? 00:19:14.370 --> 00:19:22.050 I mean- Like, can we call it great? Yeah, can we? What if it, as if worship is supposed to be unemotional. 00:19:23.930 --> 00:19:29.010 Oh. As if it's like, not supposed to evoke emotion. Yeah. 00:19:29.010 --> 00:19:36.250 I read the New Testament, particularly some scenes in Revelation where it describes the 00:19:36.250 --> 00:19:41.450 worship that is happening before the throne room, before the throne of God. 00:19:42.897 --> 00:19:50.347 While it's difficult to convey emotion in the words on a page, it is impossible to escape. 00:19:51.332 --> 00:19:58.107 The reality that the worship that's happening around Jesus right now as we speak is deeply 00:19:58.107 --> 00:20:04.747 emotional, affecting people's even physical posture before him. And so to even say, well. 00:20:05.475 --> 00:20:10.587 I don't know that I can believe that this is true because it just seems all so emotional. 00:20:10.587 --> 00:20:17.547 If you look at the videos, if you see what's happening, people are responding in such what 00:20:17.547 --> 00:20:23.282 seems to be a contrived way. I think that says more about us than it says about what's happening there. 00:20:23.667 --> 00:20:29.997 Yeah. So this is something I did a lot of thinking about several years back. 00:20:30.347 --> 00:20:31.947 And there's two, right? 00:20:31.947 --> 00:20:39.227 We're kind of coming up on kind of a traditional kind of, not dichotomy, but spectrum of thought 00:20:39.227 --> 00:20:46.487 of like, you know, so there's the person over here who's maybe saying like, you just, you just don't get it. 00:20:46.487 --> 00:20:50.747 You're just not emotional. Like, how can you not be reacting to the spirit and to God's word? 00:20:51.090 --> 00:20:55.787 And then you've got this person over here and it's like, you are all emotion and zero understanding. Yeah. 00:20:56.005 --> 00:21:00.387 Like, and, and show my cards. I come from that end. 00:21:00.447 --> 00:21:09.067 I come from the end, like just my, uh, church tradition and like where I've been, and even just my personality type has always kind of left 00:21:09.067 --> 00:21:17.027 me to swing closer to the end of being the intellectual, critiquing the emotional. 00:21:17.027 --> 00:21:24.827 But I think something like to speak to where my own biases lead me is to say that... 00:21:25.964 --> 00:21:42.760 A greater, perhaps a greater sin or dishonouring of God's Spirit than worshiping God with passion, but with little understanding is having great understanding, but have little to no emotional response to that truth. 00:21:42.760 --> 00:21:44.760 Yes, preach that, yeah. 00:21:44.760 --> 00:21:50.640 Like that is like for me to understand the gospel, to say like I've got this great theological 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:56.662 understanding of who God is, his holiness and what he's called us to and what the church is supposed to be. 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:08.347 But I, but I'm unmoved by it. That's a more dangerous spirit than somebody who has a very limited or small or like a, 00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:16.320 a very small theological understanding and is very maybe emotional or kind of reacting 00:22:16.320 --> 00:22:20.680 in an emotional way that seems a little bit more unhinged. 00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:25.560 Maybe we can talk about the extremes of emotionalism and maybe some of the unhealthy things on 00:22:25.560 --> 00:22:27.162 that end of the spectrum. 00:22:27.360 --> 00:22:31.840 But I think right now the conversation has probably got a little bit more to do with 00:22:31.840 --> 00:22:38.480 calling out the other end that is so skeptical of emotion that we're committing a sin by 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:43.520 understanding God's truth but having zero heart response to it. I could not agree more. I think 00:22:43.520 --> 00:22:50.640 that's very well put. Just to say, you know, like in light of the holiness and glory of God. 00:22:53.115 --> 00:23:00.880 If we remain unmoved, we have not encountered it. Yeah. You know, like you cannot, you cannot, 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:10.544 You cannot be in the presence and glory of God and remain the same in any way. 00:23:11.120 --> 00:23:18.880 Yeah. Physical, emotional, mental, spiritual. So yeah, I couldn't agree more. 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:27.520 I think that there's a, one of the things that I have, and I think we should maybe talk 00:23:27.520 --> 00:23:37.520 about the idea of someone asked me if you're going to go down, Cameron, are you going to go down there? 00:23:37.520 --> 00:23:46.454 I do want to address that. But I think one of the differences here, and this maybe goes back to the definition of, 00:23:47.100 --> 00:23:49.884 revival. 00:23:50.694 --> 00:23:57.815 Which this whole thing has made me want to maybe even have a personal definition of what I, 00:23:58.148 --> 00:24:06.304 give a sense of revival. Not that I would be holding to it or that it would hold any weight or 00:24:06.304 --> 00:24:11.504 authority in anyone's life. Right, because we're not trying to set ourselves up as the. 00:24:12.668 --> 00:24:17.504 Authenticators of revival. Oh, holy crap. No way. That's what we're trying to talk about. 00:24:17.504 --> 00:24:21.504 Exactly. So, right. Like we're not trying to do that, but for our own selves and our own. 00:24:22.364 --> 00:24:25.424 Parsing out and terminology, like we do have to do that wrestling. 00:24:25.424 --> 00:24:31.904 Yeah, sure. But I think some of the things that I've been really encouraged to hear and to write 00:24:31.904 --> 00:24:40.784 about or to read about is one that like there's no first that there's no central and charismatic 00:24:40.784 --> 00:24:49.542 personality who brought the revival or who is currently the leader or the figurehead, 00:24:50.091 --> 00:24:52.184 of revival from a human standpoint. 00:24:52.184 --> 00:24:58.625 Obviously Jesus is leading that revival right now. 00:24:58.824 --> 00:25:06.264 Jesus is leading it. But from a human standpoint, there's no Billy Graham's, there's no Billy Sunday's, there's 00:25:06.264 --> 00:25:09.482 no Charles Finney, there's no Dwight Moody's. 00:25:10.024 --> 00:25:16.084 There's no person at the center. There's no revivalist preacher who's coming into town and that you're buying a ticket 00:25:16.084 --> 00:25:21.923 to go see. Wasn't advertised. Wasn't advertised. Which happens. 00:25:22.084 --> 00:25:28.464 We could probably pull up old posters of revival night at such and such church under such and 00:25:28.464 --> 00:25:33.716 such debt. I want to be clear, not that God's not showing up at those either. 00:25:34.524 --> 00:25:39.576 I'm not saying that. I'm not discrediting Billy Graham. 00:25:39.639 --> 00:25:43.064 Right. We can't paint with a brush. 00:25:43.264 --> 00:25:49.224 Right. No, I'm not doing it. I'm just saying that this seems different than those things. 00:25:49.515 --> 00:25:50.271 And, 00:25:51.072 --> 00:25:54.282 So there's no like, there's no figurehead, no charismatic person. 00:25:55.562 --> 00:26:03.002 Second is that the overwhelming amount of accounts that I've seen, heard, read, is that there is a, 00:26:03.722 --> 00:26:16.122 deep sense of simplicity and also peace in the room. So even though what seems on the outside to 00:26:16.122 --> 00:26:19.051 to be an emotional response of a bunch of young people. 00:26:21.322 --> 00:26:28.322 Which I hope by my tone, everyone can tell, I think is absolute garbage to say that. 00:26:29.522 --> 00:26:36.002 These are future ministry leaders. These are the people who are gonna be God willing, 00:26:36.002 --> 00:26:38.082 leading in the kingdom. 00:26:38.162 --> 00:26:41.143 This is happening at a Christian college. 00:26:41.242 --> 00:26:42.988 People study the Bible and theology. 00:26:43.501 --> 00:26:47.741 So that there's, it seems to be like a deep sense of peace. 00:26:51.442 --> 00:26:57.968 So like that the spirit of God has settled upon that place and brought people both the peace and the freedom, 00:26:58.422 --> 00:27:01.173 to worship in a simple way. 00:27:01.262 --> 00:27:04.639 Relatively, if you watch any of the videos, relatively acoustically. 00:27:06.979 --> 00:27:11.453 Yep. There's no big bands, there's no lights. No, no haze. 00:27:11.562 --> 00:27:14.496 No, I don't even know that there's like that they're projecting lyrics. 00:27:14.682 --> 00:27:16.722 Yeah, I didn't see any. I haven't seen any. 00:27:17.035 --> 00:27:21.322 Yeah. Just that they're just, they're, they're just worshiping like out of an organic 00:27:21.322 --> 00:27:25.830 sense of like, God is here, we're, we're experiencing him. 00:27:26.522 --> 00:27:33.882 Um, and so I think those are the things that are most, I don't want to say most 00:27:33.882 --> 00:27:38.842 intriguing to me, but are very intriguing to me about what's happening there. 00:27:39.002 --> 00:27:40.351 Let me speak of something unique. 00:27:41.071 --> 00:27:45.122 Unique to our culture at least. Yeah. I mean maybe not that's true. Maybe not 00:27:45.122 --> 00:27:51.562 unique to the heart of worship. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But certainly unique to the 00:27:51.562 --> 00:27:56.082 practice of worship as we experience it most times. Yeah. Unique to what happens 00:27:56.082 --> 00:28:01.322 on a normal Sunday. Yep, absolutely unique. And it's causing in me. 00:28:02.901 --> 00:28:29.591 Some questions personally of like, Lord, how is my, how, how does my leadership affect or not affect at all the, for lack of a better term, I'll call it the spirit of revival that comes to a place or a group of people or a congregation. Yeah. 00:28:29.591 --> 00:28:35.139 So it's really like for me, it's saying I would love to have conversations with the, 00:28:35.471 --> 00:28:37.083 leaders at Asbury. Yeah. 00:28:37.831 --> 00:28:42.471 Who have obviously experienced this more than once, that an institution has experienced 00:28:42.471 --> 00:28:50.127 it more than once and say, and ask them, what is it that you feel are the things that are, 00:28:50.424 --> 00:28:55.431 consistently producing this in your midst? 00:28:55.583 --> 00:29:01.164 Obviously, I know that someone of what they would respond with is prayer. 00:29:01.511 --> 00:29:11.091 We pray regularly for revival. And you're going to get no argument with me about that. 00:29:11.091 --> 00:29:14.091 Pray for revival, pray for revival, pray for revival. 00:29:14.351 --> 00:29:18.751 I wonder what kind of revival they pray for though, or if they just pray in general. 00:29:18.751 --> 00:29:23.151 Like, they pray for a revival of worship among those who have already expressed faith in 00:29:23.151 --> 00:29:27.871 Jesus Christ or they pray for a revival of like the salvation of souls or what do they 00:29:27.871 --> 00:29:35.331 pray for? What are they praying for? Another question I would like to ask them is like, 00:29:35.331 --> 00:29:43.731 what is the, what are the leadership cultural values that you're leading with that have. 00:29:45.275 --> 00:29:54.005 Not only allowed what's happening to happen, but to support it on an ongoing basis. 00:29:54.005 --> 00:29:56.965 I mean, for goodness sakes, they've canceled classes for 12 days. 00:29:58.698 --> 00:30:02.685 Yeah, this is an institution of higher learning. Right. And I get it right. 00:30:02.685 --> 00:30:07.885 They are they're they're preparing Christian leaders. And so why? How could they not? 00:30:08.744 --> 00:30:13.645 Yeah. But like, like, I went to I went to a Bible college. There's also degree requirements. 00:30:13.645 --> 00:30:18.088 Yeah, I got to write that paper. Right. Is everyone going to have to stay an extra 12 days, 00:30:18.805 --> 00:30:23.405 at the end of the semester to hit course requirements to get accreditation? 00:30:23.405 --> 00:30:27.415 It's just interesting questions for me. It's like, how do you lead? 00:30:28.005 --> 00:30:36.336 How do you, as leaders of an institution, how do you lead in a place, recognize, 00:30:36.665 --> 00:30:42.530 when God is doing something, and not get in its frigging way? 00:30:43.583 --> 00:30:42.971 Yep. 00:30:45.445 --> 00:30:55.628 I want to know that. Cause I asked that question to myself all of the time as someone who leads worship as a pastor is like, 00:30:56.325 --> 00:31:01.812 how do I make sure that I'm hearing the Lord, discerning the Holy Spirit's movement, 00:31:02.525 --> 00:31:09.023 making sure I stay out of the way, but also at the same time offer leadership. 00:31:10.644 --> 00:31:16.216 Direction, momentum, because obviously there's been leadership happening there. 00:31:17.287 --> 00:31:23.614 No, because at some point, right, like there's another version of how this could have played out. 00:31:24.093 --> 00:31:31.574 Like the Dean of Students could have came in and said, like, hey, like, really, really appreciate what you guys are doing here. 00:31:31.574 --> 00:31:36.054 But like, you can't be using God as an excuse to play hooky. 00:31:36.363 --> 00:31:44.614 Like, I can see and hear it. Like, there's a version in which that could have happened. 00:31:45.014 --> 00:31:52.693 But there was leadership wisdom to allow for some chaos too. 00:31:53.576 --> 00:31:59.654 Right? Because like, you have to be willing to allow what's happening. 00:31:59.654 --> 00:32:04.334 And I'm sure that if we were like, you know, like if we were to talk to some people who 00:32:04.334 --> 00:32:05.287 are behind the staff. 00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:10.654 Like, yeah, they've had maybe like news cameras and weird people kind of showing up and trying, 00:32:10.905 --> 00:32:14.416 to get access to different parts of the campus that they're maybe not allowed to. 00:32:15.154 --> 00:32:22.454 It's probably disrupting a lot of the systems that happen on an ordinary day-to-day basis. 00:32:22.454 --> 00:32:27.894 Rather than saying, oh, this is just too much and just kind of shutting it down so that 00:32:27.894 --> 00:32:33.634 they can have order back, there's been a willingness to create space and to allow probably a certain 00:32:33.634 --> 00:32:40.914 amount of chaos in and I mean that like I don't mean like utter like utter chaos 00:32:40.914 --> 00:32:45.474 but like just like disruption to the regular system of the campus exactly, 00:32:45.735 --> 00:32:52.114 you know I've seen pictures where they've been bringing in porta potties and food trucks and they've made you know hey if you're traveling in from out 00:32:52.114 --> 00:32:55.794 of town and you want to be here but you have no place to stay we'll find a floor 00:32:55.794 --> 00:32:59.834 for you to sleep on this is yeah this is the university administration saying 00:32:59.834 --> 00:33:06.154 this right they have no obligation to do that right but they have chosen to undergo the pain 00:33:06.154 --> 00:33:11.154 and the inconvenience in order to make the space for those things to happen. 00:33:11.154 --> 00:33:14.092 So, Asbury University. 00:33:15.271 --> 00:33:24.161 Leadership. You don't need any accolades from me, but bravo for like finding a way to lead in that and. 00:33:26.911 --> 00:33:33.521 Just like getting it right, it seems from at least from where we sit, getting it right. 00:33:33.618 --> 00:33:40.241 Yeah, I think, you know, just to share this at least from my perspective, maybe there's, 00:33:40.241 --> 00:33:45.441 I don't know. I think there might be a little bit of an assumption that like, oh, of course 00:33:45.441 --> 00:33:50.001 it's going to happen at a college campus and a bunch of like, like that's the area where 00:33:50.001 --> 00:33:54.561 it would happen. Or like maybe these students are pre, they're young, they're, they're students, 00:33:54.561 --> 00:34:00.001 they're predisposed to this type of thing happening. And maybe that would be used to be discredited, 00:34:00.001 --> 00:34:06.841 but to discredit like what's happening there, just to kind of like, I would say that like, 00:34:06.841 --> 00:34:11.241 At least from my experience, there would be several things that are just in the way of 00:34:11.241 --> 00:34:14.497 it happening on a college campus like that. 00:34:14.641 --> 00:34:20.841 And students, being a Bible college student or seminary student studying theology, studying 00:34:20.841 --> 00:34:28.721 the Bible and going to chapels, chapel can feel like another class. 00:34:28.721 --> 00:34:36.039 And there are, I guess what all I'm just trying to say and point out is that there are obstacles. 00:34:36.418 --> 00:34:37.921 To this having happened here. 00:34:37.921 --> 00:34:44.196 It's not like a, oh, it's the perfect sociological setting for this to have happened. 00:34:44.385 --> 00:34:53.801 Like being a full-time student, having jobs and stress, assignments, work, institutional life, 00:34:53.801 --> 00:35:01.093 like all of that does not necessarily make a conducive environment for revival either. 00:35:01.241 --> 00:35:04.121 So I guess all that to just kind of say, like, I don't know. 00:35:04.121 --> 00:35:06.656 I don't think that... 00:35:08.358 --> 00:35:13.408 Revival happening was a foregone conclusion by any means. I think it's extraordinary. 00:35:17.621 --> 00:35:23.568 I think maybe to close out that bit, I was thinking about just the general trend, 00:35:24.508 --> 00:35:29.888 of people wanting to give their stamp of approval or their X, their thumb up, thumb down. 00:35:29.888 --> 00:35:34.888 And I was thinking about the parable of the wheat and the weeds. 00:35:35.238 --> 00:35:44.835 I don't know that it's talked about a ton. I don't know that it's a super familiar parable, or it's wheat and the tares is the older translation of that. 00:35:44.898 --> 00:35:54.888 Jesus talks about the sower goes out and sows his field, and he sows this, and it up comes some wheat, but also up comes some weeds in it. 00:35:54.888 --> 00:36:00.108 It. And he kind of, you know, the workers are like, should we go out and just start 00:36:00.108 --> 00:36:03.407 pulling out the weeds, try and find all the weeds, pull them? And he's like, no, we'll, 00:36:03.568 --> 00:36:07.908 sort it out at the end, like when harvest time comes, because they don't want to pull, 00:36:08.248 --> 00:36:15.541 out wheat with the weeds, right? And the larger kind of like application of that being like, 00:36:15.808 --> 00:36:23.368 there's a level at which we in ministry and as the church, there's, I don't want to say 00:36:23.368 --> 00:36:27.019 that discernment is not valuable. 00:36:27.793 --> 00:36:30.629 But I think there's a point at which we need to just kind of say like... 00:36:31.836 --> 00:36:45.699 It's not mine to discern it's not mine to discern because. 100% there very well might be and probably is people who are showing up now especially who have disingenuous motives in being there sure. 00:36:46.509 --> 00:36:56.223 But I don't know that that's my job to overly fix a bit fixate on worry about like what seems to be happening from a large. 00:36:56.754 --> 00:37:05.621 Standpoint, something that's glorifying God, praising his name and reviving people's love for him. 00:37:06.395 --> 00:37:13.600 Right. Let's just say that's a good and then let's not worry about maybe like sorting out the 00:37:13.600 --> 00:37:18.080 wheat and the weeds out of that particular instance. 00:37:18.080 --> 00:37:28.478 I don't know. That's just kind of my, I think that principle could be applied at large to this phenomenon. 00:37:28.660 --> 00:37:34.338 And I think that would, I mean, if we were using that principle, I think it would, a, 00:37:35.500 --> 00:37:42.971 lot of the conversation shifts to this like, is it good? Is it bad? Is it genuine? 00:37:44.900 --> 00:37:54.620 We've made it trendy to be the arbiters of truth in a lot of ways. 00:37:54.620 --> 00:38:03.640 Not even so much of that there is a standardized objective truth upon which all people agree 00:38:03.640 --> 00:38:11.440 about and now we're just going to point out how it doesn't align with the agreed upon objective truth. 00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:20.200 But that we carry around our own subjective version of what it is, of what truth is, of 00:38:20.200 --> 00:38:24.760 what revival is, of what is happening. 00:38:24.958 --> 00:38:36.720 And then we just, not arbitrarily, but then we just essentially cast judgment upon anything 00:38:36.720 --> 00:38:41.234 that is not in line with that particular view, which is... 00:38:43.863 --> 00:38:49.393 I'll say that. It's sad. 00:38:49.393 --> 00:38:57.593 I think that parable of the wheat and the tares is a good example or at least a good 00:38:57.593 --> 00:39:04.073 lens to view it through. 00:39:04.073 --> 00:39:12.793 Maybe it makes sense to say it or to make this comparison or not. 00:39:12.793 --> 00:39:21.793 You the question of, okay, I, someone asked for my help, financial help or whatever. 00:39:21.793 --> 00:39:23.793 Oh yeah, yeah. And, um. 00:39:24.463 --> 00:39:34.633 This could be a whole topic on itself, but yeah. They asked for my help and I didn't know whether or not to help them. 00:39:34.633 --> 00:39:36.193 I said, well, okay, well, like. 00:39:36.593 --> 00:39:37.593 Why not? 00:39:38.318 --> 00:39:46.833 Why not? I wasn't sure if their reasons for needing help were legitimate. I didn't know if they had a job or not whether they were working, 00:39:47.153 --> 00:39:52.293 I didn't know like whether they deserve actually deserved the help or not, 00:39:52.633 --> 00:39:59.133 Or like I have these resources and you know, like God has asked me to faithfully steward these resources 00:39:59.133 --> 00:40:03.533 and so only people who have met a certain laundry list of. 00:40:04.393 --> 00:40:16.393 Requirements or circumstances that deserve pity. I don't want to just be helping the career homeless or something like that. 00:40:16.393 --> 00:40:23.393 So what they're worried about is they're worried that God is going to judge them for misusing the resources that he's entrusted to them. 00:40:24.688 --> 00:40:34.393 More than he's going to create judgment or judge them for not helping someone who needs help. 00:40:34.393 --> 00:40:41.453 Now if you compare the gospel narratives, the biblical narratives, comparing the responsibilities 00:40:41.453 --> 00:40:45.024 that we have on both ends. The call to care for the needy. 00:40:46.546 --> 00:41:03.344 Like significantly outweighs god's calling us to manage our resources or resources yes right like like like let's just like take that for a second let's just imagine right let's just imagine a conversation with jesus and jesus coming up and saying someone. 00:41:04.244 --> 00:41:11.653 You were too generous to the wrong yes i mean like how global could you possibly be cameron to help that person. 00:41:11.776 --> 00:41:17.776 You got taken. Yes. I mean, I am so disappointed in you. 00:41:18.243 --> 00:41:27.776 Now, I don't get the sense that that's the way that Jesus is approaching the issue. 00:41:27.776 --> 00:41:30.666 Not that it's the same thing. No. 00:41:30.864 --> 00:41:37.816 But the same heart almost sits behind it. I think applies to this situation of like. 00:41:39.496 --> 00:41:49.715 Judgment for that or for renewal or revival or whatever is is However, you want to describe what's happening as Barry exists. I think yeah like. 00:41:52.109 --> 00:42:00.616 God is I don't think God is too overly impressed with our Discerning or cynicism or cynicism. Yeah, it's not, 00:42:01.049 --> 00:42:12.496 especially a cynicism from a distance. Yes. Let's talk there. Why aren't you and I getting in a 00:42:12.496 --> 00:42:16.576 truck right now and driving to Asbury? Well, to be perfectly honest with you, 00:42:16.576 --> 00:42:29.676 I've thought about it. My reasons, I don't know about your reasons, my reasons are personal and, 00:42:29.937 --> 00:42:40.416 And I'm not exactly, I'm not exactly, well, I mean, just being perfectly vulnerable, I'm 00:42:40.416 --> 00:42:47.410 a little ashamed of the reasons why I don't want to go, but I do want to go. 00:42:47.696 --> 00:42:59.392 There's a sense in me where it's like, I question like, Lord, what about my leadership or what What about me? 00:42:59.734 --> 00:43:01.868 Or what about this place? 00:43:03.016 --> 00:43:04.296 Why isn't it happened here? 00:43:06.612 --> 00:43:14.156 A little bit of that is selfish. You know, selfish and like, oh, I want it to happen here. 00:43:14.264 --> 00:43:20.662 If it's going to happen anywhere, I want it to happen here. But I also understand like who wouldn't want to be, you know. 00:43:20.662 --> 00:43:26.862 Then I think back on like, you know, kind of, have you ever done the, 00:43:26.948 --> 00:43:31.413 did you ever do the Experiencing God Bible study by Blackaby that really like, 00:43:31.462 --> 00:43:38.422 So his whole thing in experiencing God was like you get a sense of where God is working and you 00:43:38.422 --> 00:43:44.262 go and join him. You don't ask him to come and do what you're doing. You see what God is doing and 00:43:44.262 --> 00:43:49.702 you go and be with that. And so there's a little bit of like, well, I mean, I see what God is doing 00:43:49.702 --> 00:43:56.102 there. Like, why wouldn't I go? So there's a little bit of that in play. It makes me want to go. 00:43:56.102 --> 00:44:03.222 I want to experience that. I don't want to go to get my own sense of what's actually happening 00:44:03.222 --> 00:44:08.422 there. There's been nothing inside of me that's said, oh, I don't think it's legitimate and I'm 00:44:08.422 --> 00:44:14.102 going to go down there to prove that it's not. If anything, it's like I deeply want to go because 00:44:14.102 --> 00:44:19.702 I want to see and experience and worship like that way, but there's something but like the. 00:44:20.710 --> 00:44:23.102 The, we've been preaching about shame, right? 00:44:23.102 --> 00:44:29.262 But there's a shame inside of me that's saying like, you don't deserve to go and experience that 00:44:29.262 --> 00:44:36.103 because you have not been found faithful enough to have it happen here. 00:44:40.582 --> 00:44:51.582 Now, even as I say that out loud, I recognize the voice of the enemy in that. 00:44:51.582 --> 00:44:54.468 But it's probably the real reason that I have it. 00:44:54.662 --> 00:45:00.682 And that even a little bit of it makes me like, not uncomfortable, like reading the 00:45:00.682 --> 00:45:04.842 accounts are watching the videos but like. 00:45:07.017 --> 00:45:15.498 Lord, I so desperately want to experience you in that way and so desperately want the, 00:45:15.687 --> 00:45:22.047 people that I lead and love and care for and I'm giving my life for to experience you in 00:45:22.047 --> 00:45:25.547 that way and I want my city to experience you in that way. 00:45:25.547 --> 00:45:31.593 And I want to see people saved and I want to see people revived and renewed in their, 00:45:31.729 --> 00:45:36.047 heart of worship and I want all those things so badly. 00:45:36.047 --> 00:45:41.838 And then it becomes, but then it kind of morphs into like almost this like works faith, like, 00:45:42.207 --> 00:45:43.692 okay Lord, I'll just pray more. 00:45:44.143 --> 00:45:48.687 Yeah, what do I need to do? What do I need to do? I'll fast until it happens. I'll pray more. 00:45:48.687 --> 00:45:52.687 And it's not that those things are, not even that those things are like that God is not 00:45:52.687 --> 00:45:55.407 asking you to pray more, that God is not asking you to fast more. 00:45:55.407 --> 00:46:01.407 But if like it becomes a bargaining with God. Right. God's not my vending machine. Right. 00:46:01.904 --> 00:46:04.443 And so I would say why haven't I jumped in the truck and gone down? 00:46:04.687 --> 00:46:06.727 It's been a mixture of those reasons. 00:46:06.727 --> 00:46:18.567 So I mean, why, why, why haven't you gone down? You know, I think for me it's a, it's a general feeling that if I were to go down there, I 00:46:18.567 --> 00:46:19.170 wouldn't belong. 00:46:20.567 --> 00:46:29.647 Like there is a little bit of a, like, like your objection, a little bit. Yeah. 00:46:29.647 --> 00:46:34.582 Little bit of just like, um, it's just like, I'm like, well, 00:46:34.747 --> 00:46:39.747 it happened to them right there at that time, 00:46:40.707 --> 00:46:50.707 not here. Yep. Not me. Like, and so it would feel, I would feel a little bit of imposter syndrome if I were to go down there just 00:46:50.707 --> 00:46:51.290 because I'm like... 00:46:53.307 --> 00:47:05.334 I don't know that this is for me like I don't know that God chose to do this here and not where I was at. And receiving that, 00:47:06.487 --> 00:47:20.026 trying to receive that, like this is my pot, this is my trying to be my positive posture, this is what I'm aiming for, is trying to receive what God chooses to do and chooses not to do humbly as a creature of his. 00:47:20.458 --> 00:47:27.201 Just to say that like the Lord chooses to work where he chooses to work in the manner. He chooses to work. Mm-hmm. Like. 00:47:28.785 --> 00:47:32.497 We had service here yesterday yesterday was Sunday and we had, 00:47:33.457 --> 00:47:40.777 service Preach the sermon. I tried my absolute best preach the heck out of that service 00:47:40.777 --> 00:47:45.497 I can say that if that's I don't know if that's I don't want the theological terms. Yeah that is but I 00:47:45.497 --> 00:47:56.497 I gave it my best. I gave it my all. I like pray and pray. I even like, my hope is that there's still that there are people today that are impacted by that. 00:47:56.497 --> 00:48:07.486 I don't know. I think God did something yesterday. That's my prayer. Yeah. Right. But it didn't lead to revival. 00:48:08.431 --> 00:48:18.550 Can I sit and accept how God chose to work through service yesterday and be okay with that? 00:48:19.217 --> 00:48:22.222 And that's kind of, I think that's where I'm trying to get to. 00:48:22.377 --> 00:48:24.779 That's where I think I'm aiming at a little bit. 00:48:24.937 --> 00:48:29.793 There's also just the practicalities of like life. 00:48:31.017 --> 00:48:34.497 And then also, I think if I'm also honest, another reason I haven't gone down there is 00:48:34.497 --> 00:48:43.337 because like I said earlier, I am a closet cynic or a recovering cynic. 00:48:43.337 --> 00:48:48.887 That is where my heart easily goes to. 00:48:49.957 --> 00:48:52.677 My fear would be is that I would get down there. 00:48:54.820 --> 00:49:00.221 This is part of it. If I would get down there, I would just be like, I don't get it. That would. 00:49:01.470 --> 00:49:07.950 Be my fear, I think. Is that I would be like, not on the same wavelengths as everyone else. 00:49:08.830 --> 00:49:15.790 I think that's a little bit, and then that would just be a like, a blow, I guess, in some sense. 00:49:15.790 --> 00:49:23.150 I just wouldn't want to like, kind of want to be content with what God chooses for me. 00:49:23.150 --> 00:49:23.933 I don't know. 00:49:24.545 --> 00:49:31.045 Yeah, I mean, like even in this moment, I'm getting a sense of God's like grace over us both. Great. 00:49:31.846 --> 00:49:38.643 You know, because I think generally we both expressed a we're not worthy. 00:49:39.453 --> 00:49:47.366 Yeah, sentiment there. And I, I know for sure that's not what God wants communicated. 00:49:48.302 --> 00:49:54.001 Right. And I don't know, I just get the sense now even in the moment that God is giving us, 00:49:54.350 --> 00:50:00.590 God wants us to be more gentle with ourselves, He is gentle with us. 00:50:00.590 --> 00:50:07.470 Not that God doesn't want us to pursue whatever it is that's happening. 00:50:07.470 --> 00:50:13.518 Renewal revival, use your words, like just unhinged, unboundaried worship. 00:50:14.270 --> 00:50:19.870 Or just pursuit of Him. Just pursuit of Him. We want to put the best frame around it. 00:50:19.870 --> 00:50:21.142 Sure. Let's just pursue him. 00:50:21.370 --> 00:50:27.597 Yeah. But anyway, yeah, I know I think it's. 00:50:29.947 --> 00:50:37.077 I would, I would, I want to go down. There's obviously practical reasons why we can't, I can't also, but. 00:50:38.357 --> 00:50:41.875 Yeah, we have a church here. Yeah. I mean, I got a funeral this week and, 00:50:42.837 --> 00:50:46.277 you know, like I have my kids to take care of. Oh, Sherry wouldn't mind, right? Right. 00:50:47.317 --> 00:50:51.317 She wouldn't. No, if I told her, hey, I'm getting in the truck and going down, she would be supportive, 00:50:51.435 --> 00:51:00.032 I know she would. But yeah, no, I think that the conversation could go on for a long, long time. 00:51:01.517 --> 00:51:07.621 I would say, you know, at least in this situation, I am overwhelmingly positive and grateful, 00:51:08.037 --> 00:51:15.077 that God is showing himself in a significant way there. 00:51:15.077 --> 00:51:31.837 I'm hopeful that those who are there experiencing it are able to move out mission and be movers 00:51:31.837 --> 00:51:38.597 in the kingdom with significant spiritual fervor after having this type of experience 00:51:38.597 --> 00:51:39.917 with him. 00:51:39.917 --> 00:51:44.677 We read and we know in history like those who have been, those who were converted at 00:51:44.677 --> 00:51:50.657 Billy Graham Crusades, for instance, and what they go on to do and lead in the Kingdom of God and the Church. 00:51:50.657 --> 00:51:56.217 And my hope is that this is the same situation now, that 20 years from now we'll be reading 00:51:56.217 --> 00:51:58.448 about this person's testimony. Yes, please. 00:51:58.697 --> 00:52:07.702 You know, like that their own spiritual fervor was set afire at the Asbury revival of 2023. 00:52:08.817 --> 00:52:19.162 So that's my hope, you know, and I wish I had a ban hammer for social media. I know, right. But... 00:52:21.971 --> 00:52:27.301 But there again, you know, I'm just like, they're not the arbiter of truth. 00:52:27.301 --> 00:52:29.461 I'm not the arbiter of truth either. 00:52:29.587 --> 00:52:36.021 So, but I don't know when, I don't know when this episode is going to air. 00:52:36.021 --> 00:52:38.821 I don't think we've decided if it's going to be a bonus episode or if it's going to 00:52:38.821 --> 00:52:40.696 be a regular episode. Yeah. 00:52:40.821 --> 00:52:45.861 But you know, so we don't know what the state of the revival will be when this releases. 00:52:45.861 --> 00:52:48.221 No, we're just talking about it as it stands now. 00:52:48.717 --> 00:52:54.141 Yeah. And like we said, today is the 20th of February. So I think I did read, 00:52:55.141 --> 00:52:58.841 I did read that it's gonna be moving off campus. 00:53:00.381 --> 00:53:05.581 And I'm not sure what that means for them or for it, or for what's next or whatever, 00:53:06.613 --> 00:53:10.581 but I'll be interested to see what the next steps there are. 00:53:13.725 --> 00:53:21.581 Yeah. I think if anything, I don't know, there's not much of a bow tie to add to the topic. 00:53:21.581 --> 00:53:26.436 No, I don't think so. Other than maybe just that like... 00:53:26.961 --> 00:53:27.961 Keep praying. 00:53:28.714 --> 00:53:33.233 Keep praying. Pursue God where you're at. Keep praying. Yeah. 00:53:33.998 --> 00:53:42.381 I think that's good advice. Right. I hope so. I hope so. Thanks for listening in with us. Absolutely. 00:53:42.874 --> 00:53:49.581 But at least maybe draw a frame around all the accounts that you've been hearing or the 00:53:49.581 --> 00:53:54.301 things that you've been seeing and maybe give you an opportunity to think with a different 00:53:54.301 --> 00:53:58.461 perspective on what's going on. 00:53:58.461 --> 00:54:03.760 As always, if you have questions for us here to deal with on the On Cut Podcast, you can, 00:54:03.877 --> 00:54:13.113 text them into our mailbag 716-201-0507 and we'll be sure to get to those as we have enough. 00:54:13.518 --> 00:54:17.191 So thanks for listening today and I will catch you on the next episode. 00:54:17.200 --> 00:54:35.305 Music.