Josh: You need sleep, you need to figure out how to get sleep.
Yeah.
Justin Jackson: This is a mega maker, 2022 episode eight.
Uh,
Justin: the thing that The other part is that most people starting companies are already
not sleeping good because there's just every night when you go to sleep, there's this
anxiety of "how am I going to make this work?"
When I quit consulting and I had just like added more and more things to my
plate in order to make things work.
First it was like, I had this marketing for developers course, and that was
like enough for a chunk of income, but it was like, no, that's not enough.
Or how, how can I promote it more?
What else can I add to my mix?
And there's just this, all this constant, like I would go to bed
every night just, and stay up forever.
Just not being able to stop thinking about all the things I should be
doing or could do to make it work.
And, uh, yeah, that's, that's a challenging place to be.
I definitely slept better once.
I still have sleepless nights, but, um, it I've definitely slept better since
Transistor's kind of gotten traction.
Like once that happened, it was like, okay, this is like now just good.
I can tell my brain to stop worrying.
And , in my case, it actually mostly went away.
Uh, once, once there was something that was kind of like just providing enough margin
consistently that, you know, I didn't have to worry, which is like, partly what I've
been thinking about and what I wanted to like call about is, cause I, I think I've been
thinking about Meeps and just wanting to, yeah.
Maybe for us to just review.
Because it feels like it's just missing that thing that we talked about last time,
which is this kind of consistent demand, like people consistently searching for the
thing we've positioned ourselves around.
As you went through those emails, I sent out an email to all the people who
would sign up for early access and then all the people on the waiting list.
What was kind of your general assessment of that?
Like what, what was the feel you got?
Josh: from what I saw, it seemed like everyone got it, but I think that the problem is.
I feel like the thing that we need to know is like, what are the, for the people that
don't know who we are and don't know what Meeps is, are they looking for this solution?
But I think anyone who's already who anyone who's on a list of ours knows what
we're trying to do and understands it because I think it's a no brainer, but the
question is, are people searching for that?
Like, do they do people know to search for that no-brainer solution?
And that's kind of like, yeah.
So, so there's, um, so I guess that was the first thing that stuck out to me.
There's other things I'm sure that we'll be able to pull from the list.
Um, and there's a few more emails that came in that I need to move
over to that spreadsheet in notion.
But, um,
Justin: yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, one, one thing that worries me a little bit is, and maybe
this is just the sentiment I got.
Um, tell me if you think this is right or wrong.
So at the beginning, we should go back to our initial conversations and just review it
because maybe, maybe we've lost the thread or I've lost the thread or, um, in the
beginning, a big part of the motivation was I've been, uh, working on MegaMaker since 2013.
It does about $40,000 in revenue a year.
And I've just knew what I wanted in terms of running the community.
Right.
It was like, I knew where I was unhappy with member ful.
I knew where I was unhappy with, um, you know, all the other things we tried over
the years, like multiple, multiple things.
And at the same time, I thought that I was seeing Th this evidence that this was
community building and membership building was going to be a growing category.
So you had Josh Constantine from tech crunch was building his own online community.
That was like partly email, partly going live on clubhouse, partly a discord channel.
And he was using some software to tie all that together.
Right.
Okay.
This is interesting.
Like this is like the next level of list-building is you don't just have an email
list, but you also have a discord group and you also have a membership directory and
you also have maybe forums and other things, and you're, you're tying all that together
with software and what's worried about.
In the last little bit is there was one response we got where someone said, like,
that vision sounds like that's 10 steps ahead of me and I'm, I'm still at step zero.
You know what I mean?
And, um, yeah.
And so I'm wondering like, is there enough people trying to do
what we're providing right now?
Cause there's, there is lots of ways we could, we could point what we have,
like even, uh, I just found this, join it.org software, which I think is doing
over a million dollars a year in revenue.
Uh, but their positioning is membership management software and they offer a lot of the
same things that we do, but it it's definitely.
You know, if we look at their customers, there's a animal shelter.
There is a, I dunno, a national shooting council.
So like, uh, for like gun owners, there's, uh, ICF, Oregon, which is like, so it looks
like organizations are kind of there, uh, the hive, which it looks like co-working,
uh, yeah, lots of like organizations like the rifle and pistol club, the city business
library, the town and country carwash, uh, uh, the Capitol hill restoration society.
So this is a much different market than, than you and I are looking at right now.
Interesting.
Uh, the Alberta wildlife society.
So the, the.
Uh, valley art center, you know, this is, those are different customers then you and
I like, in my mind, I was like, no, this is for the emergent creator class, which is the
emergent no-code community, the emergent, like people building communities, like, you
know what Rosie is doing, you know, like anyone who wanted to build their own indie
hackers, uh, anyone who wanted to build their own discord group, um, you know, there's
all these people building communities in crypto and all these places, it just seemed
like, okay, this, the space is happening.
There's more people trying to do what I've been doing with MegaMaker.
but now I'm just not so sure that that's the case.
So yeah.
What, what, what's your kind of take on that?
Josh: Well, and, I guess.
The other part is like, yeah, like I, I feel like that's happening.
like I still feel like that's the case.
It's just, how, is there a, matured channel that exists yet for
getting in front of those people?
Yeah, because like there there's the one, the one fellow I had a call
with before the end of the year.
He, uh, he's running an incubator in Canada and they've got like hundreds of, um, uh,
hundreds of different, sorry, one second.
The boys are in here.
You guys.
anyways, uh, the, uh, based on the concept of a phone call or it's just like, oh,
Justin: it's so great.
It's so great.
It's just, just like, just as an aside.
Um, you know, my oldest is 19.
My youngest is 11 and
looking back, I mean, maybe this is just unavoidable, but I remember like when they
were younger, I was just so focused on making a living and like trying to build
my career and like doing all this stuff.
It really is the, it is the, the fabric of life is engaging with these human beings
and being around these human beings and stopping every once in a while and taking
three breaths and looking at them and being just like, wow, like this is an incredible,
that, I mean, it's stressful too, but it's, it's just incredible that you have
these, these people, you know, that are growing up around us and that have our DNA.
And like, it's just, it's just a wild thing.
Yeah.
Enjoy every interruption every time there's an interruption.
Just be like, man, that is, that is what a great thing, you know?
Josh: Yeah.
I.
I think and actually, um, uh, yeah, no, I it's.
And it's, it's just, it's one of those things where like, I it's It usually doesn't
hit me until they're asleep, you know, it's like chaos and I need to go to sleep.
And then like last night I was just like, I like peeked into the room, like
an hour after they'd fallen asleep.
And I was just like balling.
And it's like, this goes by so quickly and like, and, uh, and it just feels
like this season just feels like such a blur, but, you know, I, I know from our
conversations, I have to keep reminding myself.
It's like, once it's done, like it, it will have been such a short season in life.
It's just, uh, but I don't want it to be this crazy chaotic blur, like, um, yeah,
so it's just kind of like, how do I find.
How do I, um, find some more calm in this time so I can feel like I can just
kind of like take a breath and yeah.
Justin: Yeah.
It's probably just like struggle that the key is probably not to have too much pressure
on yourself, but it's like, uh, just taking small actions whenever you can, you know?
Right.
Like just enjoying like, okay, I'm just going to take a breath.
Today's been crazy, but I'm going to just look at them while they sleep and just enjoy it.
I'm going to, uh, I mean, even now the hard thing I have is that I just want to
be thinking and working and doing stuff all the time and disengaging from that.
And just being present is difficult and.
But good, you know?
Yeah.
Not have to, we have to do it all the time, but you just like every once in a
while you'd be like, okay, like I'm on the computer, I'm trying to get something done,
but I'm actually not getting anything done.
So I'm just going to close the computer, take three breaths and just
like enjoy whatever space I'm in.
Josh: Yeah.
Yeah.
I hear, I hear you.
And that the, the, um, and I'm finding, uh, uh, like the, the lack of sleep makes it so
much harder to like, make those distinctions in those decisions, you know, it's just like
it and stuff that shouldn't be a big deal.
Feel like this colossal overwhelming thing.
And, uh, it's just like, yeah, but I just find, um, uh, I'm still like, I'm.
Like getting to the place where it's like mind over, you know, where it's
like, you can kind of just go like, this is how I'm feeling right now.
And this is what it looks like right now from my point of view or from, you
know, from, with everything like this, but in reality, everything's okay.
And, you know, there's, you know, so how do I, yeah.
To getting better at kind of taking that mental step back and like
just like chill out a bit, dad.
Yeah,
Justin: yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, and yeah, definitely sleep helps with all that.
Yeah.
So you were saying you had this call with, with somebody on the early access list, so they
kind of, what was the, what were they saying?
Josh: So they were, uh, I, the interesting part was just that they
were, um, I mean, they they're intense.
But it was kind of a more, um, it was much more of a, like an enterprise, um,
level type of a thing where they're trying to connect founders with, uh, government
organizations and things like that.
So they wanted this hub online where founders could basically have profiles and
organizations could post issues that there are issues that they were needing solutions for.
And so it's kind of allowing for this connection, which is a really cool concept,
but it felt like it, uh, I think the part that was interesting there was that they felt like
online community software was the solution for that kind of thing where it's like, uh, it,
it seemed like, and there were because there were parts of what they needed that Meeps does.
That they were like, we're just going to build that.
We're going to buy that we're going to, oh, well, it already does all these.
So there's like, they still have the same.
They still have that mindset about certain things where it's like,
we'll just, we'll just buy it.
But it's interesting that they're not thinking we're going to build a new community system.
We'll find something.
Cause there's probably something out there right now.
So that part, uh, was, uh, promising.
Like that was interesting to me.
And I'm, I still like still kind of like trying to come up for air and
then get back, get back to some of these people, uh, in the new year now.
But, um, cause he was serious about moving forward with it.
Um, but yeah, that was the part that stuck out to me was it just felt like
this other place where it felt like they shouldn't be looking for, um, like public
online, um, you know, like in a solution like MIPS, but they were, so that was.
Justin: Interesting.
What, what, what do you think they would be searching for, like on Google?
What would their keyword be?
Josh: Right.
Well, and that one of our, our current early access customers in, uh, knew him and invited
it was, um, Lydia, Lydia told him about MIPS and, uh, so, so that was the connection there.
So I don't, so I actually don't know.
I'd have to get in touch with him and see if he was actually looking for something before that.
Um, cause maybe, maybe it wasn't like, which is still kind of the, um, yeah, yeah.
Justin: It's uh, yeah.
And that could be a simple email just to say, Hey curious, like what were you searching
for before Lydia told you about Meeps?
Like what were your Google searches?
Uh, and just see what comes back.
Right.
Yeah.
The big, I think that the biggest concern I have right now is that I don't like you
and I were talking about this product hunt launch, and I just don't have the, the
assurance in my head that we've got the positioning and the underlying traction to
launch yet, because it's just not quite there.
I, I, and it could be with the mix we have.
Um, but it's, it's, it's become clear as we've had folks come in, and, join,
there's this, overriding question in my head is like how many people are searching
for something like this every month?
Let's say in the creator community, there's maybe, every month there's
like 10 people that search for this.
you know, you've, we've got, um, Ben Tossel at Maker Pad and he's like, oh, you know,
this could be a good solution for us to have a member directory for maker pad.
So he signs up, but you know, how many people are like that in the maker community?
Um, and in the maker, community could include other things like people who have a
newsletter, but want something a bit more, like they want to have a community around their
newsletter, uh, people who have a podcast, but they want a little bit more, they want
a community around their podcasts, but how many of those people reach that threshold?
Like MegaMaker, where there's enough there, that they can start something and then, right.
And, and like basically how many, how many Justin Jackson's and Rosie's and Ben tossels
is there really in the world, you know?
and that, is challenging because, you know, with podcasting it was like,
well, there's a lot of people like me.
And, um, and I felt like when we were early in Meeps, like there might be
more there in the creator community.
Um, But I still haven't seen the evidence that there is that underlying demand there.
And so then the question is like, okay, well in adjacent markets, what's there?
So in the, you know, the professional community category, which is companies
starting forums and chat and other things for their customers, what's there.
And there does seem to be quite a bit of momentum there.
Um, so that's interesting.
Um, maybe we, we just haven't hit the right vein yet in the creator community.
Like, uh, I know Marie Pulin was talking about, you know, she's like get doing some event
she's, she's scheduling some events with Lummi, um, and you know, you know, that's interesting.
And there's, corey Haynes is like doing, you know, his cause marketing community
and it's like, okay, well, there's, there's some movement there, but maybe
we just haven't hit the right vein.
And then the other adjacent category is, you know, being a competitor to
something like join it, which seems to be targeting organizations.
And, you know, we could do that too.
so that that's been, my sense is just like, huh, I wonder "where's the vein?"
You know?
Like when you tap the vein and like, we know what it's like to feel like you
missed the vein or the veins, not quite, you know, when you get blood work done,
like sometimes they, they tap it and it's just like, You're gushing, you're gushing.
And you're just like, it's just like filling up the tube right away.
And then I also know what it's like to feel like they, you know, they're doing blood work.
It's like, oh, I'm not getting much blood here.
Uh,
Josh: yeah.
Yeah.
Justin: So what, what's your sense and all that, like, do you think I'm right?
Or do you think, uh, it's still unclear or what are your kind of feelings there?
Josh: Yeah, like I, I think, um,
I do think that like, you know, we kind of talked about this before the break.
Like, I keep thinking about MailChimp sitting for whatever six years it was or something.
Um, and, uh, because it's just like the, just the world wasn't ready for it yet.
And maybe it's just that we've, we have a product that's matured ahead of where the,
the market is basically trying to get.
And I think there's certainly enough people.
but you're right.
It's like the there's there's, you know, there's, uh, can we get to those people?
Are those people looking for this right now?
Um, and, uh, you know, and we talked about there's that, uh, the deal that you did with
transistor before, uh, was the boxing no, not boxing day, um, black Friday deal, where,
where it was like, which opened my eyes to this other thought that was like, uh, if somebody.
Isn't in, uh, if, if somebody hasn't done this, this and this, they're not ready to buy.
And so even if they are fully intending on doing it, they just can't justify right now.
So it's like with Meeps, it's like for somebody who's starting a community, they may
still be thinking "in a year, I'll be ready.
I'll have this many people and I'll be ready to, to spend money on the community.
But right now it's supposed to be this free thing.
That's helping me grow, whatever it is that I'm trying to grow, audience, awareness, brand."
I think going down the road of starting with a more specific use case for it.
And then building out from there , makes sense.
There are still a lot of people that signed up early access and people that
responded to that survey who want to use it for, um, early access for their product.
That's just what they, and if you, people who thought that was just that's
all that it was that, that that's what the product was, was a tool for running
early access for a software product.
Um, so finding something like that, or even if it was like that,
Justin: um, yeah, yeah, totally.
Like, what is the, what is the use case in the beginning that just
has the most momentum behind it?
And maybe we change the whole business model and just say you pay one time fee.
Like maybe you do just pay $99 per project.
And it's just a waiting list, waiting list slash early access tool that competes
with like Product Hunt Ship, you know, like you just like get people signing up.
Here's the early supporters, you've got a list of those people.
You can easily connect them to a discord.
And anytime you have an idea for a new project that you want to
launch, you just like plug this in.
And, um, you know, uh, or maybe it's like $99 a year.
And then if the project doesn't work out, you just move on to something else.
Or, you know what I mean?
Like maybe centering around a use case for right now would be the key.
Like you're just building a waiting list or an early access community and trying to
determine momentum and demand based on that.
Right.
Um, and giving people kind of the tools around that, uh, and maybe, you know, maybe
there's a free version and then they can unlock other features that costs more money.
Um, so yeah, I think there's that, that might be the key and already, like, I think if
we centered meetups around like build your waiting lists, uh, build your early access
list, that that becomes a pretty compelling kind of Product Hunt hunt launch right there.
Like, this is what this is for, and it's the beginning of the year,
and this is what you want to do.
I think that that's something worth considering for sure.
We don't want to launch on Product Hunt until we have that thing, you know?
And, there's some other details that I think we want to figure out before.
Like if we, if you're really feeling like you don't want to do the email
sending part, like, uh, like you want to, like people can connect to Mailgun or
whatever, and then send email that way.
So if we're, if we're getting out of the email service provider part,
we want to make that decision and be really, really, uh, confident in it.
Because if we launch something and like, in some ways the worst thing that can happen
is you get just enough traction to make it like a thing, but not enough traction to, and
then all of a sudden you have to like, serve these customers, but you're, you're, you're
just kind of like serving the customers, but there's no like, uh, there's no like
rushing river of, of like people signing up and revenue, but you've got these a
hundred people that you got to take care of.
And I, I, I don't really want us to do that.
Like get into this part where like, we're like, we launch a product
and then it's like, oh shoot.
Now we've got 200 people we got to take care of, but the, the, the underlying
momentum of the river's not there.
I want us to make sure that before that part happens, We feel good about the amount
of interest we're getting, the amount of organic attention and signups, the amount
of work it takes to support those people.
All of that stuff should be pretty clear.
And so, I kind of feel like we should just hold off launching until we've really
got that thing that we feel good about.
And we're like, okay, this use case is strong.
You know what I mean?
And maybe doing some more experiments along the way.
Like, um, one thing I, I didn't even publish this on the podcast last time we
talked, but this idea of these progress bars . So the idea there was, I said, okay,
Josh, we've got this whole other idea.
I've had this whole other idea of around like public progress bars.
People have these all the time for open startups.
Like, Hey, I'm trying to get to a million dollars in annual recurring revenue.
And here's where I am at right now.
Or I'm launching a Twitter follower challenge where I'm going to try to get
500 followers in the next three months, follow along as I try to get there.
And, um, I think trying something like that and launching something like that
on the side and saying, okay, well, let's just do this and see what happens.
And, as we continue to circle around what is the core thing that we want to focus on
that we want to go after, you know, kind of just like fishing for the right spot, right?
Trying different lures and seeing what gets the fish that we like at the rate
that we like and, and going from there.
Josh: Yeah.
I, I agree.
I've been kind of thinking about like, why I felt like, I felt
like I need to rush to launch.
Um, I, I definitely feel like I want to move forward with things and I'm not, like I think
as kind of the developer side, It's kind of, it's kind of hard for me to wrap my brain
around what what's the right next thing to do.
And I'm now kind of like, um, we talked about having, like, I think, I think what would be
the best place to be in right now where I would like to position myself as to be able to not
feel like I have to rush, like, to feel like it's okay if it takes, you know, if it takes
a while, if it takes like, just like, you know, like with the mentioned thing and stuff.
Again, I agree, I think being able to take some time and to try out,
like, to find that group of people.
And really have a good idea about who's going to be the one that we're going
after, before we launch makes sense.
You know, I'm, I'm almost done, I've got, I've got the, uh, progress I've ProgBar
to a place where, um, now, like I've got, I've got to add the Stripe integration,
but I've got the converting con, I got a convert kit integration almost finished.
And then like the basic thing, um, I worked with subscriber, like with the
built-in subscribers feature and it works with the built-in members feature, like
just sending people to members and then showing the progress, uh, or sending
people to the member forum as the CTA.
And then the, um, progress has shown how many members they have.
But, um, so it, and it's a really cool little, like, I, I think that
people are really gonna like it.
And once I.
Okay.
Once I implement, uh, like once I add a way to kind of like isolate this as the pro, like,
this is the product so that when people go to that browser or go to that website, um,
to Prague bar.com, or I can't remember what we have as the app, but once they go there
Justin: ProgBar.co
Josh: right, right.
Yeah.
So I wanna, um, uh, that once I have that in place, we can, we can do that
with any of the features in Meeps.
So maybe we do launch this little like events tool, and, uh, because
so many of the, like you, uh, I saw you, I think it was you that yeah.
Or you, we were talking the other day, you mentioned that you read,
you know, every website ultimately turns into a website builder.
Uh, I, I think that it's, uh, or every app, I think they also, uh, turn into a membership.
Tool at some point too, it just seems like that's kind of, so we've got all these features
that any one of like Prague bar could easily become, uh, you know, like, oh, now allow
people to become members and then charge for membership to help you build your progress and
send updates to these people and they're paying so that they can follow along for the journey.
Like that all makes sense.
Um, so, uh, yeah, so I like like that and I think I just need, uh,
I just need to find myself, I need to be making seven grand a month.
Uh, and, uh, so that I can kind of feel like I have time, you know, cause, um, yeah, uh,
yeah, like we're running out of, uh, Yeah.
Anyway, so, so I think if I can get myself in that place, then I can kind of change my
mindset to more of like a long-term thing.
And then there's so many more possibilities.
Um, I think it's just kind of, um, you know, like I, yeah, I'm also trying, I'm just trying
to get on top of sleep and health and stuff.
Cause I, yeah, I'm just, uh, having, I've been ignoring that for too many
years now and it's catching up to me.
So, uh, so that's where, I'm what I'm trying to do right now.
And then I think, um, then I can, uh, yeah, cause I, yeah, I think we're
gonna find something at some point.
Uh, but, um, uh, but yeah, I just I've had this desperate, like I'm in that
desperate place and I need to get myself into a, more of a, um, yeah, calm.
Justin: Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
Desperation is not good for, for anything.
Um, yes, I, yeah, I feel like I kind of feel like kind of two things.
One on the Meeps side, it feels like we are, we are circling around some
things like on this list of potential use cases that we have on the website:
"Substack alternative" is one right now.
And, I'm almost feeling like we should remove that from the, the list or consider moving it
because it feels like you don't really want to be in that email sending business like
that, that part, that part is, is challenging.
And if we move to.
Instead, like people could still use it as a sub stack alternative, but maybe
we won't lead with that, like that.
And that use case hasn't been incredibly compelling.
Like has anybody switched to us from Substack?
Josh: No, nobody has it's.
So, so far it's um, if I remember correctly, we've only had, it's been early access.
People are using for Meeps for early access or a community that has a paid
and free newsletter, but it hasn't been, uh, like a newsletter that they
want to add other feature set to.
Um, and I actually am hearing, uh, who I was talking to somebody recently.
Oh, Oh, yeah.
I dunno if I should mention who it is just in case, but I'm talking to somebody
recently who wants to use Meeps and they were saying, uh, they don't, uh, they'll
use Revue for the newsletter because it's going to be on their Twitter.
And that's where they have, that's where they know all their
customers are going to come from.
And so I know there's going to be a lot of people using Revue and I'm actually, I'm
already kind of thinking, like, if there's a way to tightly integrate them, not try it.
Cause there's no way to compete with that.
That's just this, and it's not, that's another one of those, like, you
know, big companies exercising their, uh, unfair, competitive advantage.
But, um, but it is what it is.
Yeah.
Justin: And that, and so the idea that you can still integrate with SendGrid and
send those automated, like especially the automated welcome emails is just like huge.
Thing and having that off your plate and having the ability to say, you know what, I do want to
send newsletters that like every time I post an update for our community association, uh, uh,
like our neighborhood association, for example, every time I post an article for members, I
want that also to send it to them as a email, but for us to say, well, that's secondary.
Like, that's just, that is a feature that you can use, but we're not going to own that.
We're not going to lead with, like, this is a, a sub stack alternative.
So I think that to me feels good to feel like we can kind of, we've learned enough
that we can cut that out of the, the off the, one of the things we're offering
because these three create a membership site provide early access to your product
and build a community around your product.
Um, Those are those feel like more in the wheelhouse and those could be sharpened more.
Um, so yeah, I think I want to like modify the positioning here just again,
like evolution on the positioning around maybe membership software and remove sub
sack alternative and just try that out.
Right.
And then, um, that's one thing.
And then on the other side with Prague bar, I almost feel like we should just,
once it's done, we should just launch with our own challenge and this could be.
Uh, the, you know, whatever we decide that makes sense, but I, I
think it should be a paid challenge.
So something that uses like this idea of people signing up and using a prog
bar, like to say like, okay, let's say it's the, the Twitter challenge.
So people sign up, they say, you know, we say, okay, Hey, welcome to the Twitter challenge.
Um, how many new subscribers are you aiming to get in the next six months?
And they say this many, and, uh, everyone has their own progress bar that they can
share that we can all track together as a group and, uh, charge money for it.
And just see what that's like, have a little discord where we can chat about it.
Uh, like have this whole purpose behind the thing, but lead with a use case.
And in this case, it's, this is like Meeps plus progress by, right?
Like they sign up as members and then they're trying to work where we, as a community
are going to try to reach this goal.
This community is only going to last six months.
It's going to cost $99.
And, uh, you know, every week we're going to talk about it.
Maybe we'll do a, like a live hangout every week or something, but commit to it.
Uh, I think have all that money go to our general revenue to pay you
and other things and just try it out.
Cause that, that would be a cool, um, thing to just see, like here's a use case.
Can we make this work?
How does this work in practice as a, as a thing, you know?
I think that would be, first of all, it would just be fun for me.
And I'd be fine for us trying it, and if it makes them revenue, just have that go to you.
Ultimately the way I look at all of this stuff is like, if at the end of
the day, you know, all the investment I've done in this just means that I have
better software to run MegaMaker with.
I'm fine with that.
Like, that would be that, that, that that's an okay outcome.
And the.
The other outcome I'm excited about is just, uh, how can I invest in Josh Anderton
and help him get to this dream of, you know, $7k a month, from product revenue
and, uh, you know, how can we get there?
to me, that's like the experiment and that's, what's worth figuring out, you know, like,
okay, let's, let's keep playing with this.
And it might you're right.
It might make some times like some, sometimes like with MailChimp, it just took a while
before they really figured out what they had.
Um, and you know, and for transistor, it took, really, it took almost a year
before we saw like an acquisition channel that really started cranking for us.
And then all of a sudden we were growing like crazy.
So, uh, when the pieces fall into place, it's great.
And the only way, the only way to find the spot where you catch a lot of fish is to just keep
fishing and just keep trying different fishing spots and doing all that as smartly as you can.
Um, so yeah, it feels like that's, that's kinda what we got to do.
What, how did, what, what, what do you think about all that?
Josh: Yeah.
That, yeah, I agree.
I think that's, um, that's, that feels like the right way to go.
Yeah.
So, so I'm kind of thinking like, if I can find, it's something like a 20
hour, like a part-time job or something, um, that will make a huge difference.
Um, because like seven, seven grand isn't I'm like, that's not a lot of
money for a month for a tech job.
So like defined, defined a a part-time level position.
I should be able to find something in that, that range, that range, um, and,
uh, or, um, or, or just like a full-time thing where they they're fine with the
fact that I'm working on other things too.
Um, because the bulk of what we've like.
We've done the bulk of, or the bulk of the product work.
And now it's kind of like change tweaking marketing wording, and, um, to tweaking
features a little bit like the ProgBar really didn't take too much time.
Like we had Christmas break in there, uh, and all of the madness that that brought in, uh,
and still it's, it's still in a good place.
Um, I'll show you, we can go through that too at some point too, or I
can make a video after for you.
But, um, so it, it does feel, but that's because we, because of what
we had, what we built already.
Um, so putting this on top was really easy.
So it definitely, I feel like that's the right way to go.
So I just have to try and.
Just got to find, find something.
Hopefully that's not like a crazy find it find a job, but
Justin: yeah.
Yeah.
and you know, if anyone's out there and they're looking for someone for, what did you say?
20 hours a week?
Josh: Yeah, 20, 25.
I feel like I have, um, that, yeah, that was suggested to me by somebody I was talking to
recently, who's kind of been in the same, same season that I'm in now where they're on the
other side of it now, but he just said like, realistically it's like 20 to 25 is a really
good place where you're, you're able to, especially if it's like more of a high leverage
position where you're, um, uh, where the work that you're doing is way more valuable than,
you know, than they're paying you ultimately.
Um, it's a really good place to be in when you're trying to run other things on the side.
And have a family.
Yeah, totally realistic.
But, um, yeah.
Justin: Yeah.
So if someone has a, uh, is looking for a great product person and great Laravel
developer, tall stack developer, uh, reach out.
Only good opportunities.
We don't want any shit opportunities.
This is like, you're, you're getting one of the best product people.
I know if you hire Josh, so, uh, make it where this time, but, but, uh, but
reach out and then, yeah, we'll like keep iterating on our side and, uh, figuring
out the mix that is going to work.
I already, after this conversation, I feel better about the, like it's
the membership piece with Meeps
that's the powerful part.
And I think.
Seeing like, you know, what the, that sub stack piece that we were thinking about
is like, that really does seem secondary.
And it's like the most likely thing that people are going to continue
to use their existing provider.
So it hurts a little bit with our early access customers, but much better to
make this decision now and then move forward with a better, a sharpened
sense of what Meeps is about then a
Josh: yeah.
Right.
And, and that, yeah, like I do have anyone who was using, uh, was usually
using the newsletter features.
They're still able to take advantage of sending through Meeps.
Um, so I just, I just kind of switched.
I just switched people that weren't using that feature.
Um, and then, um, and then the other thing, like the, the
welcome email, like the sequences.
The way I, because we didn't even, we didn't get to chat after, after that.
Uh, but, um, so the way that I, I changed the sequences is basically you get one,
one email that we'll send through Meeps.
And if you want to add emails, so you still get the automated, uh, like welcome
emails, um, for members and for subscribers.
But if you want to add, um, add additional emails, then you need
to add, integrate with a tool.
Yeah,
Justin: that's perfect.
Damn Josh.
You're good
right on, man.
Well, this has been good.
Let's, uh, stop the, the, uh, this part and you, and I can keep chatting if we want, but,
uh, yeah, I feel good about this part here.
Um, and.
I can't.
The funny thing about product is like, you're just one nudge or shift away from the thing.
And, you know, sometimes the thing is the thing you were already doing, but it's just
like repositioning it for different group.
Sometimes it has nothing to do with what you're doing and the silly project you, you kicked
out over the Christmas break, ends up being the thing that makes you a million dollars.
Right.
So, uh, yeah, I, I, uh, it's been, yeah, I'm I it's been good to be with you on this journey
and I am just, again, hopeful that we can get
you to the place where you get some of that margin, where we have a machine that's working
that, you know, maybe years down the road can pay me back in, in terms of investment.
But, um, uh, more importantly just gives you a great life.
And that was really the dream of MegaMaker is like, can we help more
people just get to that good life?
Uh, and so if we achieve that, that feels like goal number one is getting you there.
And then anything else that follows would be awesome.
So we'll get there.
I, I it's every day, you're just pushing the rock forward a little
bit more and, uh, one day, hopefully the rock just rolls down the hill.
Josh: Yeah, exactly.
Looking forward to that.
Justin: Cool.