1 00:00:02,371 --> 00:00:05,671 Josh: You need sleep, you need to figure out how to get sleep. 2 00:00:05,701 --> 00:00:06,061 Yeah. 3 00:00:08,683 --> 00:00:12,733 Justin Jackson: This is a mega maker, 2022 episode eight. 4 00:00:12,793 --> 00:00:13,573 Uh, 5 00:00:25,393 --> 00:00:30,583 Justin: the thing that The other part is that most people starting companies are already 6 00:00:30,583 --> 00:00:34,543 not sleeping good because there's just every night when you go to sleep, there's this 7 00:00:37,303 --> 00:00:41,113 anxiety of "how am I going to make this work?" 8 00:00:41,413 --> 00:00:47,338 When I quit consulting and I had just like added more and more things to my 9 00:00:47,338 --> 00:00:49,408 plate in order to make things work. 10 00:00:49,748 --> 00:00:52,328 First it was like, I had this marketing for developers course, and that was 11 00:00:52,328 --> 00:00:55,028 like enough for a chunk of income, but it was like, no, that's not enough. 12 00:00:55,028 --> 00:00:57,098 Or how, how can I promote it more? 13 00:00:57,308 --> 00:00:58,988 What else can I add to my mix? 14 00:00:59,858 --> 00:01:04,208 And there's just this, all this constant, like I would go to bed 15 00:01:04,208 --> 00:01:06,638 every night just, and stay up forever. 16 00:01:06,908 --> 00:01:10,268 Just not being able to stop thinking about all the things I should be 17 00:01:10,268 --> 00:01:13,508 doing or could do to make it work. 18 00:01:13,928 --> 00:01:20,198 And, uh, yeah, that's, that's a challenging place to be. 19 00:01:20,528 --> 00:01:22,778 I definitely slept better once. 20 00:01:23,088 --> 00:01:33,243 I still have sleepless nights, but, um, it I've definitely slept better since 21 00:01:33,283 --> 00:01:35,283 Transistor's kind of gotten traction. 22 00:01:35,973 --> 00:01:40,443 Like once that happened, it was like, okay, this is like now just good. 23 00:01:40,713 --> 00:01:45,153 I can tell my brain to stop worrying. 24 00:01:46,143 --> 00:01:48,213 And , in my case, it actually mostly went away. 25 00:01:48,663 --> 00:01:55,263 Uh, once, once there was something that was kind of like just providing enough margin 26 00:01:55,263 --> 00:02:03,333 consistently that, you know, I didn't have to worry, which is like, partly what I've 27 00:02:03,333 --> 00:02:09,063 been thinking about and what I wanted to like call about is, cause I, I think I've been 28 00:02:09,063 --> 00:02:12,753 thinking about Meeps and just wanting to, yeah. 29 00:02:12,783 --> 00:02:14,253 Maybe for us to just review. 30 00:02:15,783 --> 00:02:20,973 Because it feels like it's just missing that thing that we talked about last time, 31 00:02:20,973 --> 00:02:29,913 which is this kind of consistent demand, like people consistently searching for the 32 00:02:29,913 --> 00:02:32,613 thing we've positioned ourselves around. 33 00:02:34,903 --> 00:02:40,933 As you went through those emails, I sent out an email to all the people who 34 00:02:40,933 --> 00:02:45,283 would sign up for early access and then all the people on the waiting list. 35 00:02:45,853 --> 00:02:49,213 What was kind of your general assessment of that? 36 00:02:49,243 --> 00:02:52,243 Like what, what was the feel you got? 37 00:02:52,421 --> 00:02:59,831 Josh: from what I saw, it seemed like everyone got it, but I think that the problem is. 38 00:03:00,483 --> 00:03:04,413 I feel like the thing that we need to know is like, what are the, for the people that 39 00:03:04,413 --> 00:03:09,813 don't know who we are and don't know what Meeps is, are they looking for this solution? 40 00:03:10,113 --> 00:03:15,003 But I think anyone who's already who anyone who's on a list of ours knows what 41 00:03:15,003 --> 00:03:18,003 we're trying to do and understands it because I think it's a no brainer, but the 42 00:03:18,363 --> 00:03:21,843 question is, are people searching for that? 43 00:03:21,873 --> 00:03:25,083 Like, do they do people know to search for that no-brainer solution? 44 00:03:25,323 --> 00:03:26,343 And that's kind of like, yeah. 45 00:03:26,673 --> 00:03:32,313 So, so there's, um, so I guess that was the first thing that stuck out to me. 46 00:03:32,353 --> 00:03:35,343 There's other things I'm sure that we'll be able to pull from the list. 47 00:03:36,003 --> 00:03:39,873 Um, and there's a few more emails that came in that I need to move 48 00:03:39,873 --> 00:03:42,393 over to that spreadsheet in notion. 49 00:03:42,393 --> 00:03:43,413 But, um, 50 00:03:43,893 --> 00:03:44,123 Justin: yeah. 51 00:03:45,633 --> 00:03:45,843 Yeah. 52 00:03:45,843 --> 00:03:50,223 I mean, one, one thing that worries me a little bit is, and maybe 53 00:03:50,223 --> 00:03:51,663 this is just the sentiment I got. 54 00:03:53,323 --> 00:03:55,663 Um, tell me if you think this is right or wrong. 55 00:03:55,933 --> 00:04:01,423 So at the beginning, we should go back to our initial conversations and just review it 56 00:04:01,453 --> 00:04:09,463 because maybe, maybe we've lost the thread or I've lost the thread or, um, in the 57 00:04:09,463 --> 00:04:17,503 beginning, a big part of the motivation was I've been, uh, working on MegaMaker since 2013. 58 00:04:18,223 --> 00:04:20,953 It does about $40,000 in revenue a year. 59 00:04:21,973 --> 00:04:28,753 And I've just knew what I wanted in terms of running the community. 60 00:04:28,933 --> 00:04:29,263 Right. 61 00:04:29,293 --> 00:04:34,123 It was like, I knew where I was unhappy with member ful. 62 00:04:34,483 --> 00:04:41,443 I knew where I was unhappy with, um, you know, all the other things we tried over 63 00:04:41,443 --> 00:04:43,573 the years, like multiple, multiple things. 64 00:04:44,293 --> 00:04:53,503 And at the same time, I thought that I was seeing Th this evidence that this was 65 00:04:53,653 --> 00:04:59,863 community building and membership building was going to be a growing category. 66 00:05:00,493 --> 00:05:07,453 So you had Josh Constantine from tech crunch was building his own online community. 67 00:05:07,663 --> 00:05:16,783 That was like partly email, partly going live on clubhouse, partly a discord channel. 68 00:05:17,323 --> 00:05:21,793 And he was using some software to tie all that together. 69 00:05:22,573 --> 00:05:22,843 Right. 70 00:05:22,873 --> 00:05:23,083 Okay. 71 00:05:23,083 --> 00:05:23,983 This is interesting. 72 00:05:23,983 --> 00:05:29,983 Like this is like the next level of list-building is you don't just have an email 73 00:05:29,983 --> 00:05:36,213 list, but you also have a discord group and you also have a membership directory and 74 00:05:36,233 --> 00:05:42,853 you also have maybe forums and other things, and you're, you're tying all that together 75 00:05:42,913 --> 00:05:47,383 with software and what's worried about. 76 00:05:48,343 --> 00:05:54,043 In the last little bit is there was one response we got where someone said, like, 77 00:05:54,343 --> 00:06:03,403 that vision sounds like that's 10 steps ahead of me and I'm, I'm still at step zero. 78 00:06:03,463 --> 00:06:04,213 You know what I mean? 79 00:06:05,413 --> 00:06:08,923 And, um, yeah. 80 00:06:08,953 --> 00:06:12,883 And so I'm wondering like, is there enough people trying to do 81 00:06:13,783 --> 00:06:16,613 what we're providing right now? 82 00:06:16,633 --> 00:06:20,983 Cause there's, there is lots of ways we could, we could point what we have, 83 00:06:20,983 --> 00:06:27,103 like even, uh, I just found this, join it.org software, which I think is doing 84 00:06:27,103 --> 00:06:29,023 over a million dollars a year in revenue. 85 00:06:30,343 --> 00:06:38,213 Uh, but their positioning is membership management software and they offer a lot of the 86 00:06:38,213 --> 00:06:43,493 same things that we do, but it it's definitely. 87 00:06:44,578 --> 00:06:49,348 You know, if we look at their customers, there's a animal shelter. 88 00:06:49,948 --> 00:06:55,828 There is a, I dunno, a national shooting council. 89 00:06:55,828 --> 00:07:04,798 So like, uh, for like gun owners, there's, uh, ICF, Oregon, which is like, so it looks 90 00:07:04,798 --> 00:07:10,978 like organizations are kind of there, uh, the hive, which it looks like co-working, 91 00:07:11,578 --> 00:07:20,368 uh, yeah, lots of like organizations like the rifle and pistol club, the city business 92 00:07:20,368 --> 00:07:28,588 library, the town and country carwash, uh, uh, the Capitol hill restoration society. 93 00:07:28,588 --> 00:07:34,528 So this is a much different market than, than you and I are looking at right now. 94 00:07:35,008 --> 00:07:35,698 Interesting. 95 00:07:36,748 --> 00:07:39,928 Uh, the Alberta wildlife society. 96 00:07:40,138 --> 00:07:42,388 So the, the. 97 00:07:43,213 --> 00:07:49,363 Uh, valley art center, you know, this is, those are different customers then you and 98 00:07:49,363 --> 00:07:55,123 I like, in my mind, I was like, no, this is for the emergent creator class, which is the 99 00:07:55,123 --> 00:08:00,313 emergent no-code community, the emergent, like people building communities, like, you 100 00:08:00,313 --> 00:08:04,513 know what Rosie is doing, you know, like anyone who wanted to build their own indie 101 00:08:04,513 --> 00:08:10,843 hackers, uh, anyone who wanted to build their own discord group, um, you know, there's 102 00:08:10,873 --> 00:08:15,163 all these people building communities in crypto and all these places, it just seemed 103 00:08:15,163 --> 00:08:17,713 like, okay, this, the space is happening. 104 00:08:17,743 --> 00:08:20,863 There's more people trying to do what I've been doing with MegaMaker. 105 00:08:21,571 --> 00:08:24,961 but now I'm just not so sure that that's the case. 106 00:08:25,021 --> 00:08:26,431 So yeah. 107 00:08:26,431 --> 00:08:29,641 What, what, what's your kind of take on that? 108 00:08:30,150 --> 00:08:31,297 Josh: Well, and, I guess. 109 00:08:31,709 --> 00:08:36,402 The other part is like, yeah, like I, I feel like that's happening. 110 00:08:36,642 --> 00:08:38,172 like I still feel like that's the case. 111 00:08:38,172 --> 00:08:44,803 It's just, how, is there a, matured channel that exists yet for 112 00:08:44,803 --> 00:08:46,693 getting in front of those people? 113 00:08:47,443 --> 00:08:50,923 Yeah, because like there there's the one, the one fellow I had a call 114 00:08:50,923 --> 00:08:52,903 with before the end of the year. 115 00:08:53,863 --> 00:09:01,543 He, uh, he's running an incubator in Canada and they've got like hundreds of, um, uh, 116 00:09:01,573 --> 00:09:03,793 hundreds of different, sorry, one second. 117 00:09:03,793 --> 00:09:04,783 The boys are in here. 118 00:09:04,843 --> 00:09:05,323 You guys. 119 00:09:09,247 --> 00:09:15,877 anyways, uh, the, uh, based on the concept of a phone call or it's just like, oh, 120 00:09:16,237 --> 00:09:17,167 Justin: it's so great. 121 00:09:17,227 --> 00:09:17,947 It's so great. 122 00:09:19,087 --> 00:09:22,057 It's just, just like, just as an aside. 123 00:09:24,157 --> 00:09:26,617 Um, you know, my oldest is 19. 124 00:09:26,767 --> 00:09:31,687 My youngest is 11 and 125 00:09:32,919 --> 00:09:36,729 looking back, I mean, maybe this is just unavoidable, but I remember like when they 126 00:09:36,729 --> 00:09:41,889 were younger, I was just so focused on making a living and like trying to build 127 00:09:41,889 --> 00:09:43,989 my career and like doing all this stuff. 128 00:09:45,994 --> 00:09:56,674 It really is the, it is the, the fabric of life is engaging with these human beings 129 00:09:56,734 --> 00:10:01,024 and being around these human beings and stopping every once in a while and taking 130 00:10:01,024 --> 00:10:08,674 three breaths and looking at them and being just like, wow, like this is an incredible, 131 00:10:09,304 --> 00:10:14,014 that, I mean, it's stressful too, but it's, it's just incredible that you have 132 00:10:14,014 --> 00:10:23,044 these, these people, you know, that are growing up around us and that have our DNA. 133 00:10:23,044 --> 00:10:25,624 And like, it's just, it's just a wild thing. 134 00:10:26,284 --> 00:10:26,824 Yeah. 135 00:10:27,754 --> 00:10:30,934 Enjoy every interruption every time there's an interruption. 136 00:10:30,934 --> 00:10:37,474 Just be like, man, that is, that is what a great thing, you know? 137 00:10:38,554 --> 00:10:38,864 Josh: Yeah. 138 00:10:38,864 --> 00:10:39,124 I. 139 00:10:40,764 --> 00:10:48,084 I think and actually, um, uh, yeah, no, I it's. 140 00:10:48,114 --> 00:10:52,324 And it's, it's just, it's one of those things where like, I it's It usually doesn't 141 00:10:52,344 --> 00:10:57,204 hit me until they're asleep, you know, it's like chaos and I need to go to sleep. 142 00:10:57,294 --> 00:11:03,024 And then like last night I was just like, I like peeked into the room, like 143 00:11:03,024 --> 00:11:04,464 an hour after they'd fallen asleep. 144 00:11:04,464 --> 00:11:05,694 And I was just like balling. 145 00:11:06,354 --> 00:11:14,244 And it's like, this goes by so quickly and like, and, uh, and it just feels 146 00:11:14,244 --> 00:11:21,444 like this season just feels like such a blur, but, you know, I, I know from our 147 00:11:21,444 --> 00:11:23,544 conversations, I have to keep reminding myself. 148 00:11:23,594 --> 00:11:28,704 It's like, once it's done, like it, it will have been such a short season in life. 149 00:11:29,694 --> 00:11:36,224 It's just, uh, but I don't want it to be this crazy chaotic blur, like, um, yeah, 150 00:11:37,194 --> 00:11:39,144 so it's just kind of like, how do I find. 151 00:11:40,974 --> 00:11:46,674 How do I, um, find some more calm in this time so I can feel like I can just 152 00:11:46,674 --> 00:11:49,254 kind of like take a breath and yeah. 153 00:11:50,424 --> 00:11:50,724 Justin: Yeah. 154 00:11:50,724 --> 00:11:55,944 It's probably just like struggle that the key is probably not to have too much pressure 155 00:11:55,944 --> 00:12:04,434 on yourself, but it's like, uh, just taking small actions whenever you can, you know? 156 00:12:04,494 --> 00:12:04,914 Right. 157 00:12:05,184 --> 00:12:09,594 Like just enjoying like, okay, I'm just going to take a breath. 158 00:12:09,744 --> 00:12:16,074 Today's been crazy, but I'm going to just look at them while they sleep and just enjoy it. 159 00:12:17,154 --> 00:12:24,084 I'm going to, uh, I mean, even now the hard thing I have is that I just want to 160 00:12:24,084 --> 00:12:32,184 be thinking and working and doing stuff all the time and disengaging from that. 161 00:12:32,184 --> 00:12:37,344 And just being present is difficult and. 162 00:12:38,229 --> 00:12:39,549 But good, you know? 163 00:12:41,109 --> 00:12:41,679 Yeah. 164 00:12:41,769 --> 00:12:45,069 Not have to, we have to do it all the time, but you just like every once in a 165 00:12:45,069 --> 00:12:48,249 while you'd be like, okay, like I'm on the computer, I'm trying to get something done, 166 00:12:48,249 --> 00:12:49,989 but I'm actually not getting anything done. 167 00:12:50,589 --> 00:12:54,909 So I'm just going to close the computer, take three breaths and just 168 00:12:54,909 --> 00:12:58,239 like enjoy whatever space I'm in. 169 00:12:59,979 --> 00:13:00,429 Josh: Yeah. 170 00:13:00,609 --> 00:13:00,909 Yeah. 171 00:13:00,909 --> 00:13:02,079 I hear, I hear you. 172 00:13:02,079 --> 00:13:15,969 And that the, the, um, and I'm finding, uh, uh, like the, the lack of sleep makes it so 173 00:13:15,969 --> 00:13:22,269 much harder to like, make those distinctions in those decisions, you know, it's just like 174 00:13:22,329 --> 00:13:24,449 it and stuff that shouldn't be a big deal. 175 00:13:24,459 --> 00:13:27,849 Feel like this colossal overwhelming thing. 176 00:13:28,359 --> 00:13:36,739 And, uh, it's just like, yeah, but I just find, um, uh, I'm still like, I'm. 177 00:13:38,859 --> 00:13:43,269 Like getting to the place where it's like mind over, you know, where it's 178 00:13:43,269 --> 00:13:46,059 like, you can kind of just go like, this is how I'm feeling right now. 179 00:13:46,569 --> 00:13:50,229 And this is what it looks like right now from my point of view or from, you 180 00:13:50,229 --> 00:13:56,199 know, from, with everything like this, but in reality, everything's okay. 181 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:01,689 And, you know, there's, you know, so how do I, yeah. 182 00:14:01,779 --> 00:14:05,109 To getting better at kind of taking that mental step back and like 183 00:14:05,289 --> 00:14:06,789 just like chill out a bit, dad. 184 00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:07,689 Yeah, 185 00:14:08,199 --> 00:14:09,199 Justin: yeah, yeah. 186 00:14:09,249 --> 00:14:09,999 Yeah. 187 00:14:10,539 --> 00:14:14,349 Well, I mean, and yeah, definitely sleep helps with all that. 188 00:14:16,599 --> 00:14:16,899 Yeah. 189 00:14:17,979 --> 00:14:23,949 So you were saying you had this call with, with somebody on the early access list, so they 190 00:14:23,949 --> 00:14:26,229 kind of, what was the, what were they saying? 191 00:14:27,249 --> 00:14:30,669 Josh: So they were, uh, I, the interesting part was just that they 192 00:14:30,669 --> 00:14:32,889 were, um, I mean, they they're intense. 193 00:14:33,624 --> 00:14:39,894 But it was kind of a more, um, it was much more of a, like an enterprise, um, 194 00:14:40,554 --> 00:14:46,644 level type of a thing where they're trying to connect founders with, uh, government 195 00:14:46,644 --> 00:14:48,864 organizations and things like that. 196 00:14:48,864 --> 00:14:54,324 So they wanted this hub online where founders could basically have profiles and 197 00:14:54,624 --> 00:15:01,224 organizations could post issues that there are issues that they were needing solutions for. 198 00:15:01,254 --> 00:15:06,444 And so it's kind of allowing for this connection, which is a really cool concept, 199 00:15:06,444 --> 00:15:11,604 but it felt like it, uh, I think the part that was interesting there was that they felt like 200 00:15:12,844 --> 00:15:18,634 online community software was the solution for that kind of thing where it's like, uh, it, 201 00:15:19,954 --> 00:15:24,484 it seemed like, and there were because there were parts of what they needed that Meeps does. 202 00:15:25,309 --> 00:15:26,959 That they were like, we're just going to build that. 203 00:15:26,989 --> 00:15:30,139 We're going to buy that we're going to, oh, well, it already does all these. 204 00:15:30,139 --> 00:15:32,149 So there's like, they still have the same. 205 00:15:32,209 --> 00:15:34,489 They still have that mindset about certain things where it's like, 206 00:15:34,519 --> 00:15:36,109 we'll just, we'll just buy it. 207 00:15:36,109 --> 00:15:41,269 But it's interesting that they're not thinking we're going to build a new community system. 208 00:15:41,269 --> 00:15:42,019 We'll find something. 209 00:15:42,019 --> 00:15:43,819 Cause there's probably something out there right now. 210 00:15:44,359 --> 00:15:48,379 So that part, uh, was, uh, promising. 211 00:15:48,469 --> 00:15:49,489 Like that was interesting to me. 212 00:15:49,489 --> 00:15:55,489 And I'm, I still like still kind of like trying to come up for air and 213 00:15:55,489 --> 00:15:58,999 then get back, get back to some of these people, uh, in the new year now. 214 00:15:59,029 --> 00:16:02,959 But, um, cause he was serious about moving forward with it. 215 00:16:04,189 --> 00:16:07,399 Um, but yeah, that was the part that stuck out to me was it just felt like 216 00:16:07,399 --> 00:16:13,399 this other place where it felt like they shouldn't be looking for, um, like public 217 00:16:13,399 --> 00:16:20,629 online, um, you know, like in a solution like MIPS, but they were, so that was. 218 00:16:21,634 --> 00:16:22,084 Justin: Interesting. 219 00:16:22,114 --> 00:16:25,504 What, what, what do you think they would be searching for, like on Google? 220 00:16:25,564 --> 00:16:27,184 What would their keyword be? 221 00:16:28,114 --> 00:16:28,474 Josh: Right. 222 00:16:28,504 --> 00:16:35,944 Well, and that one of our, our current early access customers in, uh, knew him and invited 223 00:16:36,004 --> 00:16:43,504 it was, um, Lydia, Lydia told him about MIPS and, uh, so, so that was the connection there. 224 00:16:43,504 --> 00:16:45,064 So I don't, so I actually don't know. 225 00:16:45,064 --> 00:16:49,414 I'd have to get in touch with him and see if he was actually looking for something before that. 226 00:16:49,804 --> 00:16:55,594 Um, cause maybe, maybe it wasn't like, which is still kind of the, um, yeah, yeah. 227 00:16:55,624 --> 00:16:56,554 Justin: It's uh, yeah. 228 00:16:56,854 --> 00:17:01,204 And that could be a simple email just to say, Hey curious, like what were you searching 229 00:17:01,204 --> 00:17:04,324 for before Lydia told you about Meeps? 230 00:17:04,354 --> 00:17:06,454 Like what were your Google searches? 231 00:17:07,174 --> 00:17:08,674 Uh, and just see what comes back. 232 00:17:09,769 --> 00:17:10,189 Right. 233 00:17:11,509 --> 00:17:11,839 Yeah. 234 00:17:11,899 --> 00:17:16,849 The big, I think that the biggest concern I have right now is that I don't like you 235 00:17:16,849 --> 00:17:22,909 and I were talking about this product hunt launch, and I just don't have the, the 236 00:17:22,999 --> 00:17:30,889 assurance in my head that we've got the positioning and the underlying traction to 237 00:17:30,889 --> 00:17:35,779 launch yet, because it's just not quite there. 238 00:17:35,789 --> 00:17:39,919 I, I, and it could be with the mix we have. 239 00:17:40,609 --> 00:17:49,929 Um, but it's, it's, it's become clear as we've had folks come in, and, join, 240 00:17:50,116 --> 00:17:55,141 there's this, overriding question in my head is like how many people are searching 241 00:17:55,141 --> 00:17:58,561 for something like this every month? 242 00:17:59,231 --> 00:18:04,193 Let's say in the creator community, there's maybe, every month there's 243 00:18:04,193 --> 00:18:06,492 like 10 people that search for this. 244 00:18:06,702 --> 00:18:11,142 you know, you've, we've got, um, Ben Tossel at Maker Pad and he's like, oh, you know, 245 00:18:11,142 --> 00:18:15,162 this could be a good solution for us to have a member directory for maker pad. 246 00:18:15,632 --> 00:18:22,362 So he signs up, but you know, how many people are like that in the maker community? 247 00:18:24,372 --> 00:18:27,672 Um, and in the maker, community could include other things like people who have a 248 00:18:27,672 --> 00:18:32,292 newsletter, but want something a bit more, like they want to have a community around their 249 00:18:32,292 --> 00:18:36,072 newsletter, uh, people who have a podcast, but they want a little bit more, they want 250 00:18:36,462 --> 00:18:41,112 a community around their podcasts, but how many of those people reach that threshold? 251 00:18:42,162 --> 00:18:49,572 Like MegaMaker, where there's enough there, that they can start something and then, right. 252 00:18:49,822 --> 00:18:56,172 And, and like basically how many, how many Justin Jackson's and Rosie's and Ben tossels 253 00:18:56,262 --> 00:18:58,812 is there really in the world, you know? 254 00:18:59,109 --> 00:19:03,249 and that, is challenging because, you know, with podcasting it was like, 255 00:19:03,249 --> 00:19:04,929 well, there's a lot of people like me. 256 00:19:05,199 --> 00:19:10,149 And, um, and I felt like when we were early in Meeps, like there might be 257 00:19:10,419 --> 00:19:12,699 more there in the creator community. 258 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:19,434 Um, But I still haven't seen the evidence that there is that underlying demand there. 259 00:19:19,974 --> 00:19:26,934 And so then the question is like, okay, well in adjacent markets, what's there? 260 00:19:27,174 --> 00:19:33,684 So in the, you know, the professional community category, which is companies 261 00:19:33,684 --> 00:19:40,464 starting forums and chat and other things for their customers, what's there. 262 00:19:40,464 --> 00:19:42,984 And there does seem to be quite a bit of momentum there. 263 00:19:43,464 --> 00:19:45,504 Um, so that's interesting. 264 00:19:46,014 --> 00:19:51,354 Um, maybe we, we just haven't hit the right vein yet in the creator community. 265 00:19:51,354 --> 00:19:59,034 Like, uh, I know Marie Pulin was talking about, you know, she's like get doing some event 266 00:19:59,124 --> 00:20:07,884 she's, she's scheduling some events with Lummi, um, and you know, you know, that's interesting. 267 00:20:07,884 --> 00:20:13,094 And there's, corey Haynes is like doing, you know, his cause marketing community 268 00:20:13,094 --> 00:20:15,644 and it's like, okay, well, there's, there's some movement there, but maybe 269 00:20:15,644 --> 00:20:16,994 we just haven't hit the right vein. 270 00:20:18,044 --> 00:20:23,864 And then the other adjacent category is, you know, being a competitor to 271 00:20:23,864 --> 00:20:28,034 something like join it, which seems to be targeting organizations. 272 00:20:28,694 --> 00:20:30,734 And, you know, we could do that too. 273 00:20:31,184 --> 00:20:36,207 so that that's been, my sense is just like, huh, I wonder "where's the vein?" 274 00:20:36,327 --> 00:20:36,747 You know? 275 00:20:36,747 --> 00:20:41,337 Like when you tap the vein and like, we know what it's like to feel like you 276 00:20:41,337 --> 00:20:45,627 missed the vein or the veins, not quite, you know, when you get blood work done, 277 00:20:45,627 --> 00:20:51,887 like sometimes they, they tap it and it's just like, You're gushing, you're gushing. 278 00:20:51,887 --> 00:20:54,767 And you're just like, it's just like filling up the tube right away. 279 00:20:55,247 --> 00:20:58,937 And then I also know what it's like to feel like they, you know, they're doing blood work. 280 00:20:58,937 --> 00:21:01,007 It's like, oh, I'm not getting much blood here. 281 00:21:02,357 --> 00:21:02,717 Uh, 282 00:21:02,797 --> 00:21:03,587 Josh: yeah. 283 00:21:03,617 --> 00:21:04,007 Yeah. 284 00:21:05,807 --> 00:21:09,917 Justin: So what, what's your sense and all that, like, do you think I'm right? 285 00:21:09,917 --> 00:21:15,017 Or do you think, uh, it's still unclear or what are your kind of feelings there? 286 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,930 Josh: Yeah, like I, I think, um, 287 00:21:18,431 --> 00:21:22,151 I do think that like, you know, we kind of talked about this before the break. 288 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:28,720 Like, I keep thinking about MailChimp sitting for whatever six years it was or something. 289 00:21:29,770 --> 00:21:36,790 Um, and, uh, because it's just like the, just the world wasn't ready for it yet. 290 00:21:36,790 --> 00:21:42,970 And maybe it's just that we've, we have a product that's matured ahead of where the, 291 00:21:43,380 --> 00:21:45,370 the market is basically trying to get. 292 00:21:45,370 --> 00:21:47,892 And I think there's certainly enough people. 293 00:21:48,064 --> 00:21:49,324 but you're right. 294 00:21:49,324 --> 00:21:54,334 It's like the there's there's, you know, there's, uh, can we get to those people? 295 00:21:54,334 --> 00:21:57,064 Are those people looking for this right now? 296 00:21:57,694 --> 00:22:04,054 Um, and, uh, you know, and we talked about there's that, uh, the deal that you did with 297 00:22:04,084 --> 00:22:11,224 transistor before, uh, was the boxing no, not boxing day, um, black Friday deal, where, 298 00:22:11,284 --> 00:22:16,204 where it was like, which opened my eyes to this other thought that was like, uh, if somebody. 299 00:22:16,924 --> 00:22:23,584 Isn't in, uh, if, if somebody hasn't done this, this and this, they're not ready to buy. 300 00:22:23,584 --> 00:22:30,874 And so even if they are fully intending on doing it, they just can't justify right now. 301 00:22:30,924 --> 00:22:34,883 So it's like with Meeps, it's like for somebody who's starting a community, they may 302 00:22:34,883 --> 00:22:38,753 still be thinking "in a year, I'll be ready. 303 00:22:39,113 --> 00:22:43,043 I'll have this many people and I'll be ready to, to spend money on the community. 304 00:22:43,043 --> 00:22:46,223 But right now it's supposed to be this free thing. 305 00:22:46,253 --> 00:22:52,203 That's helping me grow, whatever it is that I'm trying to grow, audience, awareness, brand." 306 00:22:52,283 --> 00:22:57,863 I think going down the road of starting with a more specific use case for it. 307 00:22:57,863 --> 00:23:01,013 And then building out from there , makes sense. 308 00:23:01,063 --> 00:23:04,183 There are still a lot of people that signed up early access and people that 309 00:23:04,453 --> 00:23:09,133 responded to that survey who want to use it for, um, early access for their product. 310 00:23:09,193 --> 00:23:12,433 That's just what they, and if you, people who thought that was just that's 311 00:23:12,433 --> 00:23:16,483 all that it was that, that that's what the product was, was a tool for running 312 00:23:16,483 --> 00:23:18,613 early access for a software product. 313 00:23:19,273 --> 00:23:24,253 Um, so finding something like that, or even if it was like that, 314 00:23:24,673 --> 00:23:26,983 Justin: um, yeah, yeah, totally. 315 00:23:26,983 --> 00:23:32,294 Like, what is the, what is the use case in the beginning that just 316 00:23:32,294 --> 00:23:34,484 has the most momentum behind it? 317 00:23:34,994 --> 00:23:39,980 And maybe we change the whole business model and just say you pay one time fee. 318 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,690 Like maybe you do just pay $99 per project. 319 00:23:44,810 --> 00:23:51,560 And it's just a waiting list, waiting list slash early access tool that competes 320 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,000 with like Product Hunt Ship, you know, like you just like get people signing up. 321 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,930 Here's the early supporters, you've got a list of those people. 322 00:23:59,930 --> 00:24:02,030 You can easily connect them to a discord. 323 00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:07,040 And anytime you have an idea for a new project that you want to 324 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,640 launch, you just like plug this in. 325 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:17,510 And, um, you know, uh, or maybe it's like $99 a year. 326 00:24:17,780 --> 00:24:21,350 And then if the project doesn't work out, you just move on to something else. 327 00:24:21,530 --> 00:24:22,550 Or, you know what I mean? 328 00:24:22,550 --> 00:24:30,066 Like maybe centering around a use case for right now would be the key. 329 00:24:30,116 --> 00:24:36,766 Like you're just building a waiting list or an early access community and trying to 330 00:24:37,696 --> 00:24:42,496 determine momentum and demand based on that. 331 00:24:42,556 --> 00:24:42,976 Right. 332 00:24:43,516 --> 00:24:50,626 Um, and giving people kind of the tools around that, uh, and maybe, you know, maybe 333 00:24:50,626 --> 00:24:56,686 there's a free version and then they can unlock other features that costs more money. 334 00:24:57,166 --> 00:25:07,756 Um, so yeah, I think there's that, that might be the key and already, like, I think if 335 00:25:07,756 --> 00:25:12,316 we centered meetups around like build your waiting lists, uh, build your early access 336 00:25:12,316 --> 00:25:16,846 list, that that becomes a pretty compelling kind of Product Hunt hunt launch right there. 337 00:25:16,846 --> 00:25:20,076 Like, this is what this is for, and it's the beginning of the year, 338 00:25:20,076 --> 00:25:21,276 and this is what you want to do. 339 00:25:22,546 --> 00:25:26,036 I think that that's something worth considering for sure. 340 00:25:26,086 --> 00:25:30,136 We don't want to launch on Product Hunt until we have that thing, you know? 341 00:25:30,706 --> 00:25:34,486 And, there's some other details that I think we want to figure out before. 342 00:25:34,876 --> 00:25:38,866 Like if we, if you're really feeling like you don't want to do the email 343 00:25:38,866 --> 00:25:44,836 sending part, like, uh, like you want to, like people can connect to Mailgun or 344 00:25:44,836 --> 00:25:46,816 whatever, and then send email that way. 345 00:25:47,386 --> 00:25:52,276 So if we're, if we're getting out of the email service provider part, 346 00:25:52,936 --> 00:25:58,066 we want to make that decision and be really, really, uh, confident in it. 347 00:25:58,066 --> 00:26:04,576 Because if we launch something and like, in some ways the worst thing that can happen 348 00:26:04,576 --> 00:26:10,276 is you get just enough traction to make it like a thing, but not enough traction to, and 349 00:26:10,276 --> 00:26:14,506 then all of a sudden you have to like, serve these customers, but you're, you're, you're 350 00:26:14,506 --> 00:26:21,946 just kind of like serving the customers, but there's no like, uh, there's no like 351 00:26:22,726 --> 00:26:28,456 rushing river of, of like people signing up and revenue, but you've got these a 352 00:26:28,456 --> 00:26:30,466 hundred people that you got to take care of. 353 00:26:30,916 --> 00:26:34,516 And I, I, I don't really want us to do that. 354 00:26:34,516 --> 00:26:37,846 Like get into this part where like, we're like, we launch a product 355 00:26:37,876 --> 00:26:39,196 and then it's like, oh shoot. 356 00:26:39,196 --> 00:26:45,256 Now we've got 200 people we got to take care of, but the, the, the underlying 357 00:26:45,526 --> 00:26:47,296 momentum of the river's not there. 358 00:26:47,686 --> 00:26:55,526 I want us to make sure that before that part happens, We feel good about the amount 359 00:26:55,526 --> 00:27:01,196 of interest we're getting, the amount of organic attention and signups, the amount 360 00:27:01,196 --> 00:27:03,476 of work it takes to support those people. 361 00:27:04,026 --> 00:27:08,046 All of that stuff should be pretty clear. 362 00:27:09,576 --> 00:27:17,926 And so, I kind of feel like we should just hold off launching until we've really 363 00:27:19,426 --> 00:27:22,096 got that thing that we feel good about. 364 00:27:22,096 --> 00:27:27,406 And we're like, okay, this use case is strong. 365 00:27:27,796 --> 00:27:28,426 You know what I mean? 366 00:27:30,016 --> 00:27:32,386 And maybe doing some more experiments along the way. 367 00:27:33,166 --> 00:27:38,836 Like, um, one thing I, I didn't even publish this on the podcast last time we 368 00:27:38,836 --> 00:27:44,686 talked, but this idea of these progress bars . So the idea there was, I said, okay, 369 00:27:44,716 --> 00:27:46,456 Josh, we've got this whole other idea. 370 00:27:46,456 --> 00:27:51,226 I've had this whole other idea of around like public progress bars. 371 00:27:51,256 --> 00:27:53,716 People have these all the time for open startups. 372 00:27:53,716 --> 00:27:57,136 Like, Hey, I'm trying to get to a million dollars in annual recurring revenue. 373 00:27:57,526 --> 00:27:58,816 And here's where I am at right now. 374 00:27:58,846 --> 00:28:02,926 Or I'm launching a Twitter follower challenge where I'm going to try to get 375 00:28:02,926 --> 00:28:08,356 500 followers in the next three months, follow along as I try to get there. 376 00:28:09,016 --> 00:28:18,046 And, um, I think trying something like that and launching something like that 377 00:28:18,196 --> 00:28:23,116 on the side and saying, okay, well, let's just do this and see what happens. 378 00:28:24,046 --> 00:28:31,557 And, as we continue to circle around what is the core thing that we want to focus on 379 00:28:31,557 --> 00:28:36,927 that we want to go after, you know, kind of just like fishing for the right spot, right? 380 00:28:38,007 --> 00:28:44,942 Trying different lures and seeing what gets the fish that we like at the rate 381 00:28:44,942 --> 00:28:48,632 that we like and, and going from there. 382 00:28:48,965 --> 00:28:49,375 Josh: Yeah. 383 00:28:49,385 --> 00:28:50,420 I, I agree. 384 00:28:50,698 --> 00:28:52,918 I've been kind of thinking about like, why I felt like, I felt 385 00:28:52,918 --> 00:28:54,958 like I need to rush to launch. 386 00:28:54,988 --> 00:29:02,368 Um, I, I definitely feel like I want to move forward with things and I'm not, like I think 387 00:29:02,368 --> 00:29:10,528 as kind of the developer side, It's kind of, it's kind of hard for me to wrap my brain 388 00:29:10,528 --> 00:29:13,498 around what what's the right next thing to do. 389 00:29:13,498 --> 00:29:23,268 And I'm now kind of like, um, we talked about having, like, I think, I think what would be 390 00:29:23,688 --> 00:29:30,168 the best place to be in right now where I would like to position myself as to be able to not 391 00:29:30,168 --> 00:29:35,418 feel like I have to rush, like, to feel like it's okay if it takes, you know, if it takes 392 00:29:35,418 --> 00:29:38,448 a while, if it takes like, just like, you know, like with the mentioned thing and stuff. 393 00:29:38,498 --> 00:29:43,568 Again, I agree, I think being able to take some time and to try out, 394 00:29:43,778 --> 00:29:45,548 like, to find that group of people. 395 00:29:46,358 --> 00:29:49,228 And really have a good idea about who's going to be the one that we're going 396 00:29:49,228 --> 00:29:51,058 after, before we launch makes sense. 397 00:29:52,148 --> 00:29:58,188 You know, I'm, I'm almost done, I've got, I've got the, uh, progress I've ProgBar 398 00:29:58,208 --> 00:30:02,738 to a place where, um, now, like I've got, I've got to add the Stripe integration, 399 00:30:02,738 --> 00:30:07,628 but I've got the converting con, I got a convert kit integration almost finished. 400 00:30:08,858 --> 00:30:15,548 And then like the basic thing, um, I worked with subscriber, like with the 401 00:30:15,548 --> 00:30:19,958 built-in subscribers feature and it works with the built-in members feature, like 402 00:30:19,958 --> 00:30:24,218 just sending people to members and then showing the progress, uh, or sending 403 00:30:24,218 --> 00:30:26,318 people to the member forum as the CTA. 404 00:30:26,318 --> 00:30:29,528 And then the, um, progress has shown how many members they have. 405 00:30:29,528 --> 00:30:34,118 But, um, so it, and it's a really cool little, like, I, I think that 406 00:30:34,178 --> 00:30:36,818 people are really gonna like it. 407 00:30:36,818 --> 00:30:37,318 And once I. 408 00:30:38,138 --> 00:30:38,378 Okay. 409 00:30:38,438 --> 00:30:44,558 Once I implement, uh, like once I add a way to kind of like isolate this as the pro, like, 410 00:30:44,558 --> 00:30:49,868 this is the product so that when people go to that browser or go to that website, um, 411 00:30:49,928 --> 00:30:54,458 to Prague bar.com, or I can't remember what we have as the app, but once they go there 412 00:30:55,038 --> 00:30:56,078 Justin: ProgBar.co 413 00:30:57,428 --> 00:30:57,878 Josh: right, right. 414 00:30:58,088 --> 00:30:58,298 Yeah. 415 00:30:58,778 --> 00:31:05,258 So I wanna, um, uh, that once I have that in place, we can, we can do that 416 00:31:05,258 --> 00:31:07,418 with any of the features in Meeps. 417 00:31:07,508 --> 00:31:13,178 So maybe we do launch this little like events tool, and, uh, because 418 00:31:13,178 --> 00:31:18,338 so many of the, like you, uh, I saw you, I think it was you that yeah. 419 00:31:19,118 --> 00:31:21,908 Or you, we were talking the other day, you mentioned that you read, 420 00:31:22,508 --> 00:31:25,808 you know, every website ultimately turns into a website builder. 421 00:31:26,528 --> 00:31:34,088 Uh, I, I think that it's, uh, or every app, I think they also, uh, turn into a membership. 422 00:31:35,123 --> 00:31:39,923 Tool at some point too, it just seems like that's kind of, so we've got all these features 423 00:31:39,923 --> 00:31:45,593 that any one of like Prague bar could easily become, uh, you know, like, oh, now allow 424 00:31:45,593 --> 00:31:50,123 people to become members and then charge for membership to help you build your progress and 425 00:31:50,123 --> 00:31:54,323 send updates to these people and they're paying so that they can follow along for the journey. 426 00:31:54,323 --> 00:31:56,873 Like that all makes sense. 427 00:31:57,593 --> 00:32:04,283 Um, so, uh, yeah, so I like like that and I think I just need, uh, 428 00:32:04,313 --> 00:32:10,163 I just need to find myself, I need to be making seven grand a month. 429 00:32:11,303 --> 00:32:19,163 Uh, and, uh, so that I can kind of feel like I have time, you know, cause, um, yeah, uh, 430 00:32:19,523 --> 00:32:23,608 yeah, like we're running out of, uh, Yeah. 431 00:32:23,638 --> 00:32:28,708 Anyway, so, so I think if I can get myself in that place, then I can kind of change my 432 00:32:28,708 --> 00:32:31,558 mindset to more of like a long-term thing. 433 00:32:31,558 --> 00:32:34,408 And then there's so many more possibilities. 434 00:32:34,858 --> 00:32:40,288 Um, I think it's just kind of, um, you know, like I, yeah, I'm also trying, I'm just trying 435 00:32:40,288 --> 00:32:44,218 to get on top of sleep and health and stuff. 436 00:32:44,218 --> 00:32:48,748 Cause I, yeah, I'm just, uh, having, I've been ignoring that for too many 437 00:32:48,748 --> 00:32:51,088 years now and it's catching up to me. 438 00:32:51,088 --> 00:32:55,648 So, uh, so that's where, I'm what I'm trying to do right now. 439 00:32:55,708 --> 00:33:03,028 And then I think, um, then I can, uh, yeah, cause I, yeah, I think we're 440 00:33:03,028 --> 00:33:04,708 gonna find something at some point. 441 00:33:05,878 --> 00:33:15,268 Uh, but, um, uh, but yeah, I just I've had this desperate, like I'm in that 442 00:33:15,268 --> 00:33:20,968 desperate place and I need to get myself into a, more of a, um, yeah, calm. 443 00:33:22,268 --> 00:33:23,108 Justin: Yeah, totally. 444 00:33:23,288 --> 00:33:23,558 Yeah. 445 00:33:23,588 --> 00:33:28,058 Desperation is not good for, for anything. 446 00:33:29,648 --> 00:33:35,618 Um, yes, I, yeah, I feel like I kind of feel like kind of two things. 447 00:33:36,548 --> 00:33:44,618 One on the Meeps side, it feels like we are, we are circling around some 448 00:33:44,618 --> 00:33:49,658 things like on this list of potential use cases that we have on the website: 449 00:33:50,148 --> 00:33:52,598 "Substack alternative" is one right now. 450 00:33:52,661 --> 00:34:00,575 And, I'm almost feeling like we should remove that from the, the list or consider moving it 451 00:34:00,935 --> 00:34:06,875 because it feels like you don't really want to be in that email sending business like 452 00:34:06,875 --> 00:34:11,855 that, that part, that part is, is challenging. 453 00:34:12,245 --> 00:34:13,865 And if we move to. 454 00:34:15,305 --> 00:34:19,475 Instead, like people could still use it as a sub stack alternative, but maybe 455 00:34:19,475 --> 00:34:21,725 we won't lead with that, like that. 456 00:34:22,175 --> 00:34:24,965 And that use case hasn't been incredibly compelling. 457 00:34:24,965 --> 00:34:28,885 Like has anybody switched to us from Substack? 458 00:34:29,735 --> 00:34:32,395 Josh: No, nobody has it's. 459 00:34:32,395 --> 00:34:37,985 So, so far it's um, if I remember correctly, we've only had, it's been early access. 460 00:34:38,105 --> 00:34:43,085 People are using for Meeps for early access or a community that has a paid 461 00:34:43,085 --> 00:34:47,555 and free newsletter, but it hasn't been, uh, like a newsletter that they 462 00:34:47,555 --> 00:34:49,925 want to add other feature set to. 463 00:34:50,225 --> 00:34:55,925 Um, and I actually am hearing, uh, who I was talking to somebody recently. 464 00:34:56,135 --> 00:34:57,905 Oh, Oh, yeah. 465 00:34:57,905 --> 00:35:00,935 I dunno if I should mention who it is just in case, but I'm talking to somebody 466 00:35:00,935 --> 00:35:05,975 recently who wants to use Meeps and they were saying, uh, they don't, uh, they'll 467 00:35:05,975 --> 00:35:10,025 use Revue for the newsletter because it's going to be on their Twitter. 468 00:35:10,085 --> 00:35:12,425 And that's where they have, that's where they know all their 469 00:35:12,425 --> 00:35:13,625 customers are going to come from. 470 00:35:14,195 --> 00:35:19,385 And so I know there's going to be a lot of people using Revue and I'm actually, I'm 471 00:35:19,385 --> 00:35:23,765 already kind of thinking, like, if there's a way to tightly integrate them, not try it. 472 00:35:23,765 --> 00:35:25,745 Cause there's no way to compete with that. 473 00:35:25,745 --> 00:35:32,795 That's just this, and it's not, that's another one of those, like, you 474 00:35:32,795 --> 00:35:38,615 know, big companies exercising their, uh, unfair, competitive advantage. 475 00:35:38,675 --> 00:35:40,445 But, um, but it is what it is. 476 00:35:41,135 --> 00:35:41,195 Yeah. 477 00:35:41,265 --> 00:35:41,625 Yeah. 478 00:35:41,895 --> 00:35:47,835 Justin: And that, and so the idea that you can still integrate with SendGrid and 479 00:35:47,835 --> 00:35:53,535 send those automated, like especially the automated welcome emails is just like huge. 480 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,700 Thing and having that off your plate and having the ability to say, you know what, I do want to 481 00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:08,160 send newsletters that like every time I post an update for our community association, uh, uh, 482 00:36:08,190 --> 00:36:13,650 like our neighborhood association, for example, every time I post an article for members, I 483 00:36:13,650 --> 00:36:19,080 want that also to send it to them as a email, but for us to say, well, that's secondary. 484 00:36:19,110 --> 00:36:25,350 Like, that's just, that is a feature that you can use, but we're not going to own that. 485 00:36:25,350 --> 00:36:30,360 We're not going to lead with, like, this is a, a sub stack alternative. 486 00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:36,630 So I think that to me feels good to feel like we can kind of, we've learned enough 487 00:36:36,990 --> 00:36:43,710 that we can cut that out of the, the off the, one of the things we're offering 488 00:36:43,980 --> 00:36:48,600 because these three create a membership site provide early access to your product 489 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,670 and build a community around your product. 490 00:36:51,330 --> 00:36:59,390 Um, Those are those feel like more in the wheelhouse and those could be sharpened more. 491 00:37:00,620 --> 00:37:08,700 Um, so yeah, I think I want to like modify the positioning here just again, 492 00:37:08,730 --> 00:37:16,860 like evolution on the positioning around maybe membership software and remove sub 493 00:37:16,860 --> 00:37:20,550 sack alternative and just try that out. 494 00:37:21,540 --> 00:37:22,020 Right. 495 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,850 And then, um, that's one thing. 496 00:37:27,150 --> 00:37:32,340 And then on the other side with Prague bar, I almost feel like we should just, 497 00:37:32,370 --> 00:37:40,800 once it's done, we should just launch with our own challenge and this could be. 498 00:37:42,740 --> 00:37:48,530 Uh, the, you know, whatever we decide that makes sense, but I, I 499 00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:50,690 think it should be a paid challenge. 500 00:37:51,050 --> 00:37:57,470 So something that uses like this idea of people signing up and using a prog 501 00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:01,460 bar, like to say like, okay, let's say it's the, the Twitter challenge. 502 00:38:01,460 --> 00:38:07,100 So people sign up, they say, you know, we say, okay, Hey, welcome to the Twitter challenge. 503 00:38:07,580 --> 00:38:12,170 Um, how many new subscribers are you aiming to get in the next six months? 504 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:18,620 And they say this many, and, uh, everyone has their own progress bar that they can 505 00:38:18,620 --> 00:38:25,010 share that we can all track together as a group and, uh, charge money for it. 506 00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:30,080 And just see what that's like, have a little discord where we can chat about it. 507 00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:37,040 Uh, like have this whole purpose behind the thing, but lead with a use case. 508 00:38:38,315 --> 00:38:41,855 And in this case, it's, this is like Meeps plus progress by, right? 509 00:38:41,855 --> 00:38:51,515 Like they sign up as members and then they're trying to work where we, as a community 510 00:38:51,755 --> 00:38:53,015 are going to try to reach this goal. 511 00:38:53,045 --> 00:38:54,935 This community is only going to last six months. 512 00:38:55,355 --> 00:38:56,855 It's going to cost $99. 513 00:38:57,305 --> 00:39:01,325 And, uh, you know, every week we're going to talk about it. 514 00:39:01,685 --> 00:39:06,845 Maybe we'll do a, like a live hangout every week or something, but commit to it. 515 00:39:08,075 --> 00:39:17,315 Uh, I think have all that money go to our general revenue to pay you 516 00:39:17,315 --> 00:39:20,345 and other things and just try it out. 517 00:39:20,375 --> 00:39:26,465 Cause that, that would be a cool, um, thing to just see, like here's a use case. 518 00:39:26,765 --> 00:39:28,115 Can we make this work? 519 00:39:28,145 --> 00:39:32,085 How does this work in practice as a, as a thing, you know? 520 00:39:32,905 --> 00:39:36,165 I think that would be, first of all, it would just be fun for me. 521 00:39:36,345 --> 00:39:41,525 And I'd be fine for us trying it, and if it makes them revenue, just have that go to you. 522 00:39:41,885 --> 00:39:46,745 Ultimately the way I look at all of this stuff is like, if at the end of 523 00:39:46,745 --> 00:39:52,325 the day, you know, all the investment I've done in this just means that I have 524 00:39:52,325 --> 00:39:54,005 better software to run MegaMaker with. 525 00:39:54,095 --> 00:39:54,935 I'm fine with that. 526 00:39:55,505 --> 00:39:58,985 Like, that would be that, that, that that's an okay outcome. 527 00:39:59,825 --> 00:40:01,085 And the. 528 00:40:02,225 --> 00:40:09,795 The other outcome I'm excited about is just, uh, how can I invest in Josh Anderton 529 00:40:09,815 --> 00:40:18,305 and help him get to this dream of, you know, $7k a month, from product revenue 530 00:40:18,695 --> 00:40:21,425 and, uh, you know, how can we get there? 531 00:40:21,811 --> 00:40:26,201 to me, that's like the experiment and that's, what's worth figuring out, you know, like, 532 00:40:26,201 --> 00:40:28,661 okay, let's, let's keep playing with this. 533 00:40:28,661 --> 00:40:29,561 And it might you're right. 534 00:40:29,681 --> 00:40:34,361 It might make some times like some, sometimes like with MailChimp, it just took a while 535 00:40:34,361 --> 00:40:37,871 before they really figured out what they had. 536 00:40:38,411 --> 00:40:43,861 Um, and you know, and for transistor, it took, really, it took almost a year 537 00:40:43,861 --> 00:40:48,861 before we saw like an acquisition channel that really started cranking for us. 538 00:40:49,251 --> 00:40:51,411 And then all of a sudden we were growing like crazy. 539 00:40:51,861 --> 00:40:56,931 So, uh, when the pieces fall into place, it's great. 540 00:40:57,171 --> 00:41:02,421 And the only way, the only way to find the spot where you catch a lot of fish is to just keep 541 00:41:02,421 --> 00:41:08,121 fishing and just keep trying different fishing spots and doing all that as smartly as you can. 542 00:41:08,421 --> 00:41:15,951 Um, so yeah, it feels like that's, that's kinda what we got to do. 543 00:41:18,711 --> 00:41:23,091 What, how did, what, what, what do you think about all that? 544 00:41:24,381 --> 00:41:24,741 Josh: Yeah. 545 00:41:24,741 --> 00:41:27,681 That, yeah, I agree. 546 00:41:27,681 --> 00:41:31,889 I think that's, um, that's, that feels like the right way to go. 547 00:41:31,979 --> 00:41:32,249 Yeah. 548 00:41:32,249 --> 00:41:37,922 So, so I'm kind of thinking like, if I can find, it's something like a 20 549 00:41:37,922 --> 00:41:45,932 hour, like a part-time job or something, um, that will make a huge difference. 550 00:41:46,562 --> 00:41:54,302 Um, because like seven, seven grand isn't I'm like, that's not a lot of 551 00:41:54,302 --> 00:41:56,372 money for a month for a tech job. 552 00:41:56,642 --> 00:42:01,442 So like defined, defined a a part-time level position. 553 00:42:01,442 --> 00:42:07,502 I should be able to find something in that, that range, that range, um, and, 554 00:42:07,502 --> 00:42:15,842 uh, or, um, or, or just like a full-time thing where they they're fine with the 555 00:42:15,842 --> 00:42:18,002 fact that I'm working on other things too. 556 00:42:18,602 --> 00:42:22,442 Um, because the bulk of what we've like. 557 00:42:23,252 --> 00:42:26,582 We've done the bulk of, or the bulk of the product work. 558 00:42:27,302 --> 00:42:34,262 And now it's kind of like change tweaking marketing wording, and, um, to tweaking 559 00:42:34,262 --> 00:42:38,402 features a little bit like the ProgBar really didn't take too much time. 560 00:42:38,402 --> 00:42:46,682 Like we had Christmas break in there, uh, and all of the madness that that brought in, uh, 561 00:42:46,742 --> 00:42:50,402 and still it's, it's still in a good place. 562 00:42:50,582 --> 00:42:54,062 Um, I'll show you, we can go through that too at some point too, or I 563 00:42:54,062 --> 00:42:55,352 can make a video after for you. 564 00:42:55,352 --> 00:43:00,572 But, um, so it, it does feel, but that's because we, because of what 565 00:43:00,572 --> 00:43:02,372 we had, what we built already. 566 00:43:02,822 --> 00:43:06,362 Um, so putting this on top was really easy. 567 00:43:06,362 --> 00:43:10,852 So it definitely, I feel like that's the right way to go. 568 00:43:10,852 --> 00:43:11,902 So I just have to try and. 569 00:43:13,042 --> 00:43:14,782 Just got to find, find something. 570 00:43:15,652 --> 00:43:19,312 Hopefully that's not like a crazy find it find a job, but 571 00:43:20,152 --> 00:43:20,482 Justin: yeah. 572 00:43:20,512 --> 00:43:20,932 Yeah. 573 00:43:21,184 --> 00:43:25,204 and you know, if anyone's out there and they're looking for someone for, what did you say? 574 00:43:25,204 --> 00:43:26,224 20 hours a week? 575 00:43:27,424 --> 00:43:28,474 Josh: Yeah, 20, 25. 576 00:43:28,474 --> 00:43:33,026 I feel like I have, um, that, yeah, that was suggested to me by somebody I was talking to 577 00:43:33,026 --> 00:43:40,256 recently, who's kind of been in the same, same season that I'm in now where they're on the 578 00:43:40,256 --> 00:43:45,716 other side of it now, but he just said like, realistically it's like 20 to 25 is a really 579 00:43:45,716 --> 00:43:50,786 good place where you're, you're able to, especially if it's like more of a high leverage 580 00:43:50,816 --> 00:43:58,046 position where you're, um, uh, where the work that you're doing is way more valuable than, 581 00:43:58,886 --> 00:44:00,956 you know, than they're paying you ultimately. 582 00:44:01,736 --> 00:44:06,386 Um, it's a really good place to be in when you're trying to run other things on the side. 583 00:44:07,541 --> 00:44:08,321 And have a family. 584 00:44:09,071 --> 00:44:11,411 Yeah, totally realistic. 585 00:44:11,411 --> 00:44:12,531 But, um, yeah. 586 00:44:13,108 --> 00:44:13,348 Justin: Yeah. 587 00:44:13,358 --> 00:44:18,068 So if someone has a, uh, is looking for a great product person and great Laravel 588 00:44:18,068 --> 00:44:22,118 developer, tall stack developer, uh, reach out. 589 00:44:22,148 --> 00:44:23,348 Only good opportunities. 590 00:44:23,348 --> 00:44:25,598 We don't want any shit opportunities. 591 00:44:26,047 --> 00:44:28,627 This is like, you're, you're getting one of the best product people. 592 00:44:28,627 --> 00:44:34,177 I know if you hire Josh, so, uh, make it where this time, but, but, uh, but 593 00:44:34,177 --> 00:44:42,761 reach out and then, yeah, we'll like keep iterating on our side and, uh, figuring 594 00:44:42,761 --> 00:44:45,221 out the mix that is going to work. 595 00:44:45,221 --> 00:44:49,631 I already, after this conversation, I feel better about the, like it's 596 00:44:49,631 --> 00:44:52,191 the membership piece with Meeps 597 00:44:52,211 --> 00:44:53,591 that's the powerful part. 598 00:44:53,741 --> 00:44:55,171 And I think. 599 00:44:56,581 --> 00:45:01,021 Seeing like, you know, what the, that sub stack piece that we were thinking about 600 00:45:01,021 --> 00:45:03,601 is like, that really does seem secondary. 601 00:45:04,081 --> 00:45:07,411 And it's like the most likely thing that people are going to continue 602 00:45:07,411 --> 00:45:08,881 to use their existing provider. 603 00:45:08,881 --> 00:45:14,821 So it hurts a little bit with our early access customers, but much better to 604 00:45:15,901 --> 00:45:21,661 make this decision now and then move forward with a better, a sharpened 605 00:45:21,721 --> 00:45:25,081 sense of what Meeps is about then a 606 00:45:25,375 --> 00:45:25,555 Josh: yeah. 607 00:45:25,585 --> 00:45:25,855 Right. 608 00:45:25,855 --> 00:45:32,155 And, and that, yeah, like I do have anyone who was using, uh, was usually 609 00:45:32,155 --> 00:45:33,445 using the newsletter features. 610 00:45:33,445 --> 00:45:36,895 They're still able to take advantage of sending through Meeps. 611 00:45:37,645 --> 00:45:39,925 Um, so I just, I just kind of switched. 612 00:45:40,045 --> 00:45:42,175 I just switched people that weren't using that feature. 613 00:45:42,805 --> 00:45:47,825 Um, and then, um, and then the other thing, like the, the 614 00:45:47,885 --> 00:45:49,615 welcome email, like the sequences. 615 00:45:50,420 --> 00:45:54,260 The way I, because we didn't even, we didn't get to chat after, after that. 616 00:45:54,350 --> 00:46:00,170 Uh, but, um, so the way that I, I changed the sequences is basically you get one, 617 00:46:00,860 --> 00:46:03,800 one email that we'll send through Meeps. 618 00:46:04,190 --> 00:46:09,470 And if you want to add emails, so you still get the automated, uh, like welcome 619 00:46:09,470 --> 00:46:13,610 emails, um, for members and for subscribers. 620 00:46:14,350 --> 00:46:19,190 But if you want to add, um, add additional emails, then you need 621 00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:21,470 to add, integrate with a tool. 622 00:46:22,100 --> 00:46:22,460 Yeah, 623 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:24,260 Justin: that's perfect. 624 00:46:25,310 --> 00:46:26,330 Damn Josh. 625 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:26,900 You're good 626 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:33,080 right on, man. 627 00:46:33,110 --> 00:46:34,490 Well, this has been good. 628 00:46:34,670 --> 00:46:40,850 Let's, uh, stop the, the, uh, this part and you, and I can keep chatting if we want, but, 629 00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:44,000 uh, yeah, I feel good about this part here. 630 00:46:44,810 --> 00:46:46,400 Um, and. 631 00:46:48,215 --> 00:46:48,665 I can't. 632 00:46:48,665 --> 00:46:56,645 The funny thing about product is like, you're just one nudge or shift away from the thing. 633 00:46:57,935 --> 00:47:02,225 And, you know, sometimes the thing is the thing you were already doing, but it's just 634 00:47:02,225 --> 00:47:04,895 like repositioning it for different group. 635 00:47:05,285 --> 00:47:11,285 Sometimes it has nothing to do with what you're doing and the silly project you, you kicked 636 00:47:11,285 --> 00:47:16,205 out over the Christmas break, ends up being the thing that makes you a million dollars. 637 00:47:16,985 --> 00:47:17,525 Right. 638 00:47:17,615 --> 00:47:30,095 So, uh, yeah, I, I, uh, it's been, yeah, I'm I it's been good to be with you on this journey 639 00:47:30,695 --> 00:47:36,035 and I am just, again, hopeful that we can get 640 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:42,110 you to the place where you get some of that margin, where we have a machine that's working 641 00:47:42,590 --> 00:47:47,630 that, you know, maybe years down the road can pay me back in, in terms of investment. 642 00:47:47,630 --> 00:47:50,990 But, um, uh, more importantly just gives you a great life. 643 00:47:51,471 --> 00:47:56,061 And that was really the dream of MegaMaker is like, can we help more 644 00:47:56,061 --> 00:47:58,131 people just get to that good life? 645 00:47:59,001 --> 00:48:05,061 Uh, and so if we achieve that, that feels like goal number one is getting you there. 646 00:48:05,481 --> 00:48:08,451 And then anything else that follows would be awesome. 647 00:48:08,451 --> 00:48:09,921 So we'll get there. 648 00:48:09,921 --> 00:48:13,941 I, I it's every day, you're just pushing the rock forward a little 649 00:48:13,941 --> 00:48:18,861 bit more and, uh, one day, hopefully the rock just rolls down the hill. 650 00:48:19,551 --> 00:48:20,781 Josh: Yeah, exactly. 651 00:48:21,351 --> 00:48:22,431 Looking forward to that. 652 00:48:23,541 --> 00:48:23,901 Justin: Cool.