{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":7.56,"endTime":10.26,"body":"Welcome to the IT"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":7.56,"endTime":10.26,"body":"Matters podcast, where we"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":10.26,"endTime":13.92,"body":"explore why IT matters and"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":10.26,"endTime":13.92,"body":"matters pertaining to IT."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":16.81,"endTime":20.2,"body":"Welcome to the IT"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":16.81,"endTime":20.2,"body":"Matters podcast where we"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":20.2,"endTime":25.18,"body":"interview IT leaders making an"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":20.2,"endTime":25.18,"body":"impact. Today we have a very"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":25.18,"endTime":29.32,"body":"special guest. He started his"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":25.18,"endTime":29.32,"body":"career down the path of military"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":29.32,"endTime":32.53,"body":"service to our country, first"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":29.32,"endTime":32.53,"body":"becoming a pilot for the United"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":32.53,"endTime":36.22,"body":"States Air Force and continued"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":32.53,"endTime":36.22,"body":"service in various capacities"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":36.22,"endTime":40.36,"body":"including serving as a Combat"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":36.22,"endTime":40.36,"body":"Aviation adviser to the Special"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":40.36,"endTime":44.05,"body":"Special Operations Squadron,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":40.36,"endTime":44.05,"body":"culminating in nearly two"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":44.05,"endTime":48.01,"body":"decades of service, he finished"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":44.05,"endTime":48.01,"body":"with defending our nation"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":48.67,"endTime":52.63,"body":"against malicious cyber threats"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":48.67,"endTime":52.63,"body":"as the Chief Information"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":52.66,"endTime":56.53,"body":"Security Officer of the CIA. He"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":52.66,"endTime":56.53,"body":"now serves as an adviser to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":56.53,"endTime":61.18,"body":"Salesforce on national security"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":56.53,"endTime":61.18,"body":"issues and as Chief Product"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":61.18,"endTime":65.35,"body":"Officer at Red Cell Partners, an"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":61.18,"endTime":65.35,"body":"incubation and investing firm"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":65.35,"endTime":69.37,"body":"focused on complementing"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":65.35,"endTime":69.37,"body":"companies changing the paradigm"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":69.4,"endTime":73.6,"body":"and the cybersecurity and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":69.4,"endTime":73.6,"body":"artificial intelligence space. I"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":73.6,"endTime":76.42,"body":"welcome William MacMillan,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":73.6,"endTime":76.42,"body":"welcome to the IT Matters"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":76.42,"endTime":77.32,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":77.86,"endTime":79.33,"body":"Thanks,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":77.86,"endTime":79.33,"body":"Keith. It's great to be here."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":79.33,"endTime":81.31,"body":"And thank you for your very kind"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":79.33,"endTime":81.31,"body":"introduction."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":81.4,"endTime":85.78,"body":"My pleasure. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":81.4,"endTime":85.78,"body":"you have quite the colorful and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":85.78,"endTime":88.33,"body":"honorable background. I really"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":85.78,"endTime":88.33,"body":"want to, we're going to cover a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":88.33,"endTime":92.32,"body":"myriad of topics today, where"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":88.33,"endTime":92.32,"body":"I'd like to start is what drew"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":92.32,"endTime":95.89,"body":"you to service? What drew you to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":92.32,"endTime":95.89,"body":"the United States Air Force? And"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":95.89,"endTime":97.09,"body":"how did this all begin?"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":97.54,"endTime":100.12,"body":"Yeah sure. So"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":97.54,"endTime":100.12,"body":"going way back into ancient"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":100.12,"endTime":103.51,"body":"history. I grew up in Western"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":100.12,"endTime":103.51,"body":"New York. I'm the son of two"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":103.51,"endTime":106.51,"body":"immigrants, my dad's from"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":103.51,"endTime":106.51,"body":"Scotland, my mom's from Germany."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":106.54,"endTime":109.18,"body":"So I grew up in a household"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":106.54,"endTime":109.18,"body":"where we really thought about"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":109.18,"endTime":114.16,"body":"and appreciated what the country"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":109.18,"endTime":114.16,"body":"gave to people with very modest"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":114.16,"endTime":116.89,"body":"economic backgrounds. So as I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":114.16,"endTime":116.89,"body":"grew up, I kind of always knew"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":116.89,"endTime":119.32,"body":"that I was going to need to do"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":116.89,"endTime":119.32,"body":"well in school and look at"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":119.32,"endTime":122.8,"body":"scholarship options and that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":119.32,"endTime":122.8,"body":"sort of thing. I was also kind"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":122.8,"endTime":125.74,"body":"of what I guess you could call a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":122.8,"endTime":125.74,"body":"stem kid. I was really into math"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":125.74,"endTime":130.3,"body":"and science. And that eventually"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":125.74,"endTime":130.3,"body":"led me to be selected to attend"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":130.3,"endTime":133.69,"body":"something called the summer"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":130.3,"endTime":133.69,"body":"scientific seminar at the US Air"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":133.69,"endTime":137.23,"body":"Force Academy between my junior"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":133.69,"endTime":137.23,"body":"and senior year of high school."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":137.47,"endTime":140.17,"body":"It's really basically a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":137.47,"endTime":140.17,"body":"recruiting event. And it's an"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":140.17,"endTime":143.29,"body":"incredible opportunity for kids"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":140.17,"endTime":143.29,"body":"across the country to be"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":143.29,"endTime":146.62,"body":"selected to go live in the cadet"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":143.29,"endTime":146.62,"body":"dorms and you know, live there"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":146.62,"endTime":150.1,"body":"on the Air Force Academy campus"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":146.62,"endTime":150.1,"body":"for a week and go to different"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":150.1,"endTime":153.28,"body":"classes and seminars. That was"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":150.1,"endTime":153.28,"body":"the first time I'd ever been on"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":153.28,"endTime":156.22,"body":"an airplane in my life was"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":153.28,"endTime":156.22,"body":"flying out there for that week"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":156.37,"endTime":159.34,"body":"in Colorado Springs. And I just"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":156.37,"endTime":159.34,"body":"fell in love with the place and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":159.58,"endTime":162.82,"body":"I thought this is incredible."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":159.58,"endTime":162.82,"body":"You mean I get to you know, if"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":162.82,"endTime":165.58,"body":"I'm selected to be a cadet, I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":162.82,"endTime":165.58,"body":"can come live here and on the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":165.61,"endTime":168.97,"body":"eastern slope of the Rampart"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":165.61,"endTime":168.97,"body":"range in the southern Rockies,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":168.97,"endTime":170.83,"body":"you know, can live there and go"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":168.97,"endTime":170.83,"body":"to school there. So I thought it"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":170.83,"endTime":175.24,"body":"was amazing. I was super"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":170.83,"endTime":175.24,"body":"passionate about biology. So I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":175.24,"endTime":177.64,"body":"thought maybe I would go to the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":175.24,"endTime":177.64,"body":"Air Force Academy and study"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":177.64,"endTime":180.94,"body":"aerospace physiology, or maybe"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":177.64,"endTime":180.94,"body":"even medicine. I did apply and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":180.94,"endTime":185.56,"body":"eventually got into the academy."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":180.94,"endTime":185.56,"body":"Once I got there, I ended up"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":185.56,"endTime":189.01,"body":"tracking towards pilot training"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":185.56,"endTime":189.01,"body":"instead of medicine. What"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":189.01,"endTime":191.74,"body":"happened was the different Cadet"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":189.01,"endTime":191.74,"body":"squadrons, they all have these"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":191.74,"endTime":195.76,"body":"sponsor relationships with"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":191.74,"endTime":195.76,"body":"active duty Air Force units, and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":196.03,"endTime":200.05,"body":"ours in my upper class Cadet"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":196.03,"endTime":200.05,"body":"squadron, our sponsor unit was"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":200.29,"endTime":203.44,"body":"the wing, the training wing at"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":200.29,"endTime":203.44,"body":"Kirtland Air Force Base in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":203.44,"endTime":206.68,"body":"Albuquerque, New Mexico that is"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":203.44,"endTime":206.68,"body":"responsible for training all the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":206.68,"endTime":210.43,"body":"combat rescue and special"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":206.68,"endTime":210.43,"body":"operations helicopter and fixed"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":210.43,"endTime":213.79,"body":"wing pilots. So I was around"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":210.43,"endTime":213.79,"body":"those guys for you know, for"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":213.79,"endTime":217.6,"body":"three years while I was an upper"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":213.79,"endTime":217.6,"body":"class cadet, and just absolutely"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":217.6,"endTime":221.35,"body":"fell in love with the idea of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":217.6,"endTime":221.35,"body":"combat rescue and Special Ops."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":222.16,"endTime":224.98,"body":"And, you know, so ended up"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":222.16,"endTime":224.98,"body":"tracking off into pilot training"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":224.98,"endTime":228.22,"body":"after I graduated from the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":224.98,"endTime":228.22,"body":"academy. That's sort of the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":228.22,"endTime":229.09,"body":"beginning of the story."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":229.0,"endTime":230.95,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":229.0,"endTime":230.95,"body":"fascinating. I could certainly"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":230.95,"endTime":234.7,"body":"see the appeal as a young man"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":230.95,"endTime":234.7,"body":"and joining the Air Force and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":234.7,"endTime":238.45,"body":"becoming a pilot. So you spent"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":234.7,"endTime":238.45,"body":"some time as a pilot for the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":238.45,"endTime":243.94,"body":"United States Air Force, but you"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":238.45,"endTime":243.94,"body":"didn't stop there. I guess you"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":244.24,"endTime":249.67,"body":"decided that you had enough of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":244.24,"endTime":249.67,"body":"flying and wanted to dip your"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":249.67,"endTime":256.27,"body":"toes into cybersecurity and join"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":249.67,"endTime":256.27,"body":"the operations team at at CIA."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":256.3,"endTime":262.0,"body":"How was that transition? What"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":256.3,"endTime":262.0,"body":"led you to join the CIA after"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":262.03,"endTime":265.51,"body":"the Air Force? Yeah, certainly a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":262.03,"endTime":265.51,"body":"different type of role."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":262.98,"endTime":265.577,"body":"Yeah, for"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":262.98,"endTime":265.577,"body":"sure. And it was a it was a long"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":265.638,"endTime":269.41,"body":"transition actually. I didn't"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":265.638,"endTime":269.41,"body":"jump right into cyber, but I'll"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":269.472,"endTime":273.182,"body":"explain the transition. So I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":269.472,"endTime":273.182,"body":"was, you know, traveling around"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":273.244,"endTime":276.769,"body":"the world in the Air Force, and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":273.244,"endTime":276.769,"body":"was in was operating in a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":276.831,"endTime":280.603,"body":"capacity where we were advisors,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":276.831,"endTime":280.603,"body":"which meant that we had, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":280.664,"endTime":283.942,"body":"know, sort of a regional"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":280.664,"endTime":283.942,"body":"expertise. And I was focused"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":284.004,"endTime":287.714,"body":"mostly on the Middle East and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":284.004,"endTime":287.714,"body":"Central Asia. And this is, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":287.775,"endTime":291.3,"body":"know, back in the late 90s. So"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":287.775,"endTime":291.3,"body":"that language and cultural"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":291.16,"endTime":297.711,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":291.16,"endTime":297.711,"body":"fascinating. And that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":291.362,"endTime":295.258,"body":"training and experience in that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":291.362,"endTime":295.258,"body":"part of the world really set me"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":295.319,"endTime":298.782,"body":"up well for a transition into"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":295.319,"endTime":298.782,"body":"CIA. I was fascinated with"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":297.883,"endTime":308.572,"body":"when the war, you know, cyber"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":297.883,"endTime":308.572,"body":"cybersecurity, you know, warfare"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":298.844,"endTime":302.74,"body":"international relations and, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":298.844,"endTime":302.74,"body":"know, was actually was working"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":302.801,"endTime":306.45,"body":"on a master's degree while I was"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":302.801,"endTime":306.45,"body":"still, you know, traveling"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":306.512,"endTime":310.345,"body":"around in the Air Force. And so"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":306.512,"endTime":310.345,"body":"right around the time that 911"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":308.744,"endTime":319.605,"body":"seems to have really picked up"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":308.744,"endTime":319.605,"body":"pace during that, that latter 10"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":310.407,"endTime":314.241,"body":"happened, I had the opportunity"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":310.407,"endTime":314.241,"body":"to move over and join CIA. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":314.303,"endTime":317.889,"body":"that experience that I had"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":314.303,"endTime":317.889,"body":"developed in the Air Force with"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":317.951,"endTime":321.785,"body":"the Middle East and Central Asia"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":317.951,"endTime":321.785,"body":"in particular, was obviously,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":319.777,"endTime":330.466,"body":"years of your tenure, and you"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":319.777,"endTime":330.466,"body":"know, after 911 and, and beyond,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":321.847,"endTime":325.804,"body":"you know, fairly relevant right"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":321.847,"endTime":325.804,"body":"around the time of 911. And so I"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":325.866,"endTime":329.453,"body":"transitioned initially into"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":325.866,"endTime":329.453,"body":"being a an operations officer,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":329.514,"endTime":333.348,"body":"you know, running intelligence"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":329.514,"endTime":333.348,"body":"operations within what's called"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":330.638,"endTime":341.499,"body":"I really want to get into some"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":330.638,"endTime":341.499,"body":"of the the origins of zero trust"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":333.41,"endTime":337.244,"body":"the Directorate of operations at"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":333.41,"endTime":337.244,"body":"CIA. So it was only over time"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":337.306,"endTime":340.768,"body":"that I eventually sort of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":337.306,"endTime":340.768,"body":"started tracking towards cyber"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":340.83,"endTime":344.664,"body":"and spent, you could probably"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":340.83,"endTime":344.664,"body":"say, the back half of my 20 year"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":341.672,"endTime":352.015,"body":"architecture, and how the CIA"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":341.672,"endTime":352.015,"body":"and your team were involved in"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":344.726,"endTime":347.88,"body":"career at CIA, as a, you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":344.726,"endTime":347.88,"body":"so called cyber guy."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":352.188,"endTime":362.187,"body":"this. But I gotta say, I've"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":352.188,"endTime":362.187,"body":"watched a lot of movies, a lot"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":362.359,"endTime":372.186,"body":"of movies about spies and the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":362.359,"endTime":372.186,"body":"CIA, and do any, any movies"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":372.358,"endTime":382.53,"body":"portray the CIA, in a more"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":372.358,"endTime":382.53,"body":"accurate light, you know, what's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":382.702,"endTime":391.15,"body":"the best and worst"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":382.702,"endTime":391.15,"body":"representations that you have?"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":392.38,"endTime":394.3,"body":"It's a great"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":392.38,"endTime":394.3,"body":"question. It's kind of a fun"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":394.3,"endTime":398.02,"body":"question. I don't know that I'm"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":394.3,"endTime":398.02,"body":"going to dime out any worsts."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":398.02,"endTime":402.34,"body":"But let me let me answer it this"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":398.02,"endTime":402.34,"body":"way. You know, unfortunately, I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":402.34,"endTime":406.24,"body":"think in my opinion, there's"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":402.34,"endTime":406.24,"body":"really no single movie that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":406.24,"endTime":409.81,"body":"accurately captures you know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":406.24,"endTime":409.81,"body":"the full depth and breadth of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":410.14,"endTime":415.21,"body":"CIA accurately. I think some"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":410.14,"endTime":415.21,"body":"movies might capture a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":415.21,"endTime":418.57,"body":"particular aspect of the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":415.21,"endTime":418.57,"body":"intelligence world accurately."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":418.57,"endTime":421.96,"body":"Like, for example, a movie like"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":418.57,"endTime":421.96,"body":"Zero Dark 30, I think is"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":421.99,"endTime":425.44,"body":"generally regarded as you know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":421.99,"endTime":425.44,"body":"doing a decent job capturing the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":425.44,"endTime":429.58,"body":"essence of individual"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":425.44,"endTime":429.58,"body":"dedication. But, you know, like"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":429.58,"endTime":433.99,"body":"I said, no single movie really,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":429.58,"endTime":433.99,"body":"really captures all of it. There"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":433.99,"endTime":436.3,"body":"are some movies, some"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":433.99,"endTime":436.3,"body":"particularly some, like older"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":436.3,"endTime":440.32,"body":"school movies, like Tinker,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":436.3,"endTime":440.32,"body":"Tailor, Soldier, Spy, that are"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":440.32,"endTime":443.68,"body":"good at capturing the cat and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":440.32,"endTime":443.68,"body":"mouse aspects of espionage"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":443.68,"endTime":446.89,"body":"itself, the the actual"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":443.68,"endTime":446.89,"body":"intelligence operations aspect"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":446.89,"endTime":451.15,"body":"of it. But all these movies, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":446.89,"endTime":451.15,"body":"know, tend to fall short in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":451.15,"endTime":456.04,"body":"various areas, in terms of the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":451.15,"endTime":456.04,"body":"authenticity and really nailing"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":456.04,"endTime":459.64,"body":"especially the positive aspects"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":456.04,"endTime":459.64,"body":"of CIA service to the nation."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":460.27,"endTime":463.03,"body":"You know, a development that I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":460.27,"endTime":463.03,"body":"personally think is fantastic,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":463.27,"endTime":467.38,"body":"is that a handful of former"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":463.27,"endTime":467.38,"body":"senior CIA officers have been"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":467.38,"endTime":470.44,"body":"working to try to bring more"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":467.38,"endTime":470.44,"body":"authenticity to Hollywood"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":470.44,"endTime":474.19,"body":"portrayals of CIA. You know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":470.44,"endTime":474.19,"body":"it's, it's important for"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":474.19,"endTime":478.75,"body":"Americans to know what CIA is"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":474.19,"endTime":478.75,"body":"really like. CIA relies very"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":478.75,"endTime":481.96,"body":"heavily on the talent of its"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":478.75,"endTime":481.96,"body":"workforce and authenticity is a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":481.96,"endTime":486.1,"body":"great recruiting tool. You know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":481.96,"endTime":486.1,"body":"there's no more fulfilling way"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":486.1,"endTime":489.01,"body":"to serve the nation than a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":486.1,"endTime":489.01,"body":"career in intelligence, a career"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":489.01,"endTime":493.06,"body":"at CIA. And we need talented"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":489.01,"endTime":493.06,"body":"young Americans to be aware of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":493.06,"endTime":495.85,"body":"that and to understand the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":493.06,"endTime":495.85,"body":"exciting opportunities there are"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":495.85,"endTime":499.48,"body":"in the intelligence world."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":495.85,"endTime":499.48,"body":"There's, there's two guys that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":499.48,"endTime":503.02,"body":"I'll point you towards, highly"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":499.48,"endTime":503.02,"body":"respected senior CIA leaders"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":503.02,"endTime":506.83,"body":"back in their day, named Jerry"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":503.02,"endTime":506.83,"body":"O'Shea and John Sipher. They"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":506.83,"endTime":509.8,"body":"actually started a company"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":506.83,"endTime":509.8,"body":"called Spy Craft Entertainment,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":510.85,"endTime":514.57,"body":"specifically, expressly to try"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":510.85,"endTime":514.57,"body":"to bring more authentic spy"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":514.57,"endTime":517.99,"body":"stories to Hollywood. You can"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":514.57,"endTime":517.99,"body":"Google these guys and read about"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":517.99,"endTime":522.16,"body":"him. Another former CIA officer,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":517.99,"endTime":522.16,"body":"a former colleague of mine,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":522.16,"endTime":526.72,"body":"named Kari Amelung, she's"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":522.16,"endTime":526.72,"body":"somewhat famously consulted on"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":527.23,"endTime":530.38,"body":"several series like the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":527.23,"endTime":530.38,"body":"Homeland, Homeland, The"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":530.38,"endTime":536.02,"body":"Diplomat, and, and a series"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":530.38,"endTime":536.02,"body":"called Berlin Station. And if"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":536.02,"endTime":538.63,"body":"you watch those shows, there's"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":536.02,"endTime":538.63,"body":"elements of those that you can"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":538.63,"endTime":542.83,"body":"tell clearly benefited from her"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":538.63,"endTime":542.83,"body":"involvement. You know, she's"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":542.83,"endTime":546.4,"body":"also, by the way, consulting on"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":542.83,"endTime":546.4,"body":"the upcoming season of a really"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":546.4,"endTime":549.25,"body":"big show, but I don't think it's"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":546.4,"endTime":549.25,"body":"public yet so I don't want to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":549.28,"endTime":552.82,"body":"scoop her and get ahead of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":549.28,"endTime":552.82,"body":"things. My point here, Keith, is"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":552.82,"endTime":557.2,"body":"that it's these, it's the human"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":552.82,"endTime":557.2,"body":"elements of spycraft that are"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":557.2,"endTime":561.34,"body":"really tough for Hollywood to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":557.2,"endTime":561.34,"body":"get right. So it's great when"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":561.34,"endTime":564.19,"body":"they can have an experienced"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":561.34,"endTime":564.19,"body":"intelligence veteran like Kari"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":564.22,"endTime":567.55,"body":"on, on hand to you know, guide,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":564.22,"endTime":567.55,"body":"especially to the character"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":567.55,"endTime":570.94,"body":"development in the, the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":567.55,"endTime":570.94,"body":"interpersonal stories, and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":570.94,"endTime":575.59,"body":"plotlines. And finally, sorry,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":570.94,"endTime":575.59,"body":"this is a long answer. The last"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":575.59,"endTime":578.89,"body":"shout out I'd like to give, your"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":575.59,"endTime":578.89,"body":"listeners can read more about"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":578.89,"endTime":582.82,"body":"this at their leisure, a, a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":578.89,"endTime":582.82,"body":"friend and former colleague of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":582.82,"endTime":587.59,"body":"mine named Phil Reilly. Phil is"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":582.82,"endTime":587.59,"body":"a legendary CIA veteran, and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":587.59,"endTime":591.19,"body":"he's worked on some"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":587.59,"endTime":591.19,"body":"documentaries like the Netflix"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":591.19,"endTime":595.42,"body":"series, Spy Ops as an advisor,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":591.19,"endTime":595.42,"body":"and he's also working on a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":595.42,"endTime":598.75,"body":"future series about Osama Bin"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":595.42,"endTime":598.75,"body":"Laden. I'm not sure the status"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":598.75,"endTime":600.94,"body":"of that project, so I'm not"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":598.75,"endTime":600.94,"body":"going to get into it too much."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":601.33,"endTime":603.88,"body":"But I would just say that if any"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":601.33,"endTime":603.88,"body":"of your listeners really like"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":603.88,"endTime":607.12,"body":"the spy craft genre, and they"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":603.88,"endTime":607.12,"body":"want to learn more and follow"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":607.12,"endTime":611.05,"body":"it, they could just set a Google"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":607.12,"endTime":611.05,"body":"alert for CIA and Phil Reilly"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":611.05,"endTime":613.57,"body":"and anything that Phil's"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":611.05,"endTime":613.57,"body":"associated with, it's going to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":613.57,"endTime":614.53,"body":"be fantastic."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":614.0,"endTime":664.64,"body":"I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":614.0,"endTime":664.64,"body":"a it's a famously insular"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":614.52,"endTime":618.233,"body":"We'll make sure to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":614.52,"endTime":618.233,"body":"add links to those organizations"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":618.306,"endTime":622.676,"body":"and individuals in the notes"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":618.306,"endTime":622.676,"body":"section of the podcast, so look"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":622.748,"endTime":626.827,"body":"out for that anyone that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":622.748,"endTime":626.827,"body":"listening. So many industries"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":626.899,"endTime":631.414,"body":"are misrepresented and it's very"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":626.899,"endTime":631.414,"body":"difficult I can imagine for a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":631.487,"endTime":636.148,"body":"producer that is looking to make"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":631.487,"endTime":636.148,"body":"something dramatic and sexy and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":636.221,"endTime":640.517,"body":"alluring to the mass audience,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":636.221,"endTime":640.517,"body":"to you know, because most of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":640.59,"endTime":644.814,"body":"what I imagine the CIA does is"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":640.59,"endTime":644.814,"body":"actually fairly routine and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":644.887,"endTime":649.256,"body":"mundane. Just like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":644.887,"endTime":649.256,"body":"any military force, 99% of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":649.329,"endTime":653.771,"body":"time it's, it's doing the simple"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":649.329,"endTime":653.771,"body":"things right, often, and and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":653.844,"endTime":657.631,"body":"with credibility, but that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":653.844,"endTime":657.631,"body":"doesn't make for the best"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":657.704,"endTime":660.18,"body":"Hollywood movie. Blend of the two,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":664.85,"endTime":668.72,"body":"culture, right? Like by design,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":664.85,"endTime":668.72,"body":"you know, CIA isn't really built"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":668.72,"endTime":673.22,"body":"for everybody to, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":668.72,"endTime":673.22,"body":"get really intense insight into"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":673.22,"endTime":675.83,"body":"what it's like. So so you're"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":673.22,"endTime":675.83,"body":"right, they have they have a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":675.83,"endTime":676.49,"body":"tough job."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":676.0,"endTime":681.67,"body":"That makes sense."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":676.0,"endTime":681.67,"body":"Which leads me to my next"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":681.7,"endTime":689.62,"body":"question, William, is, I advise"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":681.7,"endTime":689.62,"body":"CIOs across the United States"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":689.62,"endTime":695.65,"body":"and the talk of the industry"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":689.62,"endTime":695.65,"body":"today is how they can move"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":695.65,"endTime":700.06,"body":"closer to a zero trust"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":695.65,"endTime":700.06,"body":"architecture. This story of zero"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":700.06,"endTime":706.0,"body":"trust, has its origin story"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":700.06,"endTime":706.0,"body":"partially with a team that you"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":706.0,"endTime":712.27,"body":"were a part of while working for"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":706.0,"endTime":712.27,"body":"the CIA in your CISO role. Can"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":712.27,"endTime":717.73,"body":"you shed some light on on how"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":712.27,"endTime":717.73,"body":"zero trust originated? What led"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":717.73,"endTime":720.85,"body":"you down the path of forming"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":717.73,"endTime":720.85,"body":"this this architecture and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":720.85,"endTime":722.62,"body":"framework? What can you share?"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":722.75,"endTime":726.71,"body":"Certainly, I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":722.75,"endTime":726.71,"body":"can comment on on CIA's portion"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":726.71,"endTime":730.73,"body":"of the story and my role there."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":726.71,"endTime":730.73,"body":"Zero trust architecture itself"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":730.73,"endTime":735.53,"body":"goes way back to like 2010 and a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":730.73,"endTime":735.53,"body":"guy who was not a CIA person"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":735.56,"endTime":739.46,"body":"developed the doctrine and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":735.56,"endTime":739.46,"body":"Google very famously worked on a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":739.46,"endTime":742.16,"body":"bunch of that as well. I'm not"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":739.46,"endTime":742.16,"body":"really an expert and those"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":742.16,"endTime":746.3,"body":"aren't really my stories to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":742.16,"endTime":746.3,"body":"tell. But as far as CIA goes,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":746.33,"endTime":750.92,"body":"and you know where CIA is, in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":746.33,"endTime":750.92,"body":"terms of its zero trust journey,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":751.19,"endTime":754.88,"body":"and my very modest role in that,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":751.19,"endTime":754.88,"body":"I'm happy to tell you that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":754.88,"endTime":759.59,"body":"story. It actually involves a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":754.88,"endTime":759.59,"body":"little bit of history. So bear"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":759.59,"endTime":762.08,"body":"with me here, I've got to, I've"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":759.59,"endTime":762.08,"body":"got to set some context in order"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":762.08,"endTime":766.46,"body":"for it to make sense. So, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":762.08,"endTime":766.46,"body":"know, as you and your listeners"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":766.46,"endTime":770.27,"body":"are aware of CIA played a really"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":766.46,"endTime":770.27,"body":"pivotal role in the global"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":770.27,"endTime":774.74,"body":"response to the September 11th"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":770.27,"endTime":774.74,"body":"attacks in 2001 on the US"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":774.74,"endTime":778.88,"body":"homeland, and along with our"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":774.74,"endTime":778.88,"body":"teammates in the military, the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":778.88,"endTime":781.52,"body":"rest of the intelligence"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":778.88,"endTime":781.52,"body":"community, and the federal"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":781.52,"endTime":784.85,"body":"government at large,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":781.52,"endTime":784.85,"body":"counterterrorism efforts very"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":784.85,"endTime":788.24,"body":"quickly consumed consumed a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":784.85,"endTime":788.24,"body":"great deal of focus and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":788.24,"endTime":792.2,"body":"resources at CIA, and rightly so"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":788.24,"endTime":792.2,"body":"that's exactly what the nation"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":792.44,"endTime":796.85,"body":"most needed at the time. If you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":792.44,"endTime":796.85,"body":"think about that timeframe,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":797.72,"endTime":801.71,"body":"like, you know, leading up to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":797.72,"endTime":801.71,"body":"911, basically, the technology"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":801.71,"endTime":805.34,"body":"world was really transforming."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":801.71,"endTime":805.34,"body":"There were some huge influences,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":805.34,"endTime":808.55,"body":"you know, you're a little"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":805.34,"endTime":808.55,"body":"younger than me here, actually a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":808.55,"endTime":812.78,"body":"lot younger than me. And, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":808.55,"endTime":812.78,"body":"know, you might not, you're of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":812.78,"endTime":816.08,"body":"the generation where, you know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":812.78,"endTime":816.08,"body":"if you didn't really live"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":816.08,"endTime":821.15,"body":"through the 90s as an adult, I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":816.08,"endTime":821.15,"body":"think it's easy to lose track of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":821.45,"endTime":826.13,"body":"just how transformative that era"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":821.45,"endTime":826.13,"body":"was. Two technologies in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":826.13,"endTime":830.69,"body":"particular in the 90s, the web,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":826.13,"endTime":830.69,"body":"and then also GSM Tech really"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":830.69,"endTime":833.66,"body":"exploded and started connecting"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":830.69,"endTime":833.66,"body":"the world and transforming our"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":833.66,"endTime":837.02,"body":"digital lives. And it was"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":833.66,"endTime":837.02,"body":"amazing, it was historic."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":837.29,"endTime":839.42,"body":"You mentioned the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":837.29,"endTime":839.42,"body":"web. I think everyone listening"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":839.45,"endTime":843.71,"body":"understands what you mean by"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":839.45,"endTime":843.71,"body":"introduction of the web, but you"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":843.71,"endTime":847.7,"body":"said GS4 Tech? What what was the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":843.71,"endTime":847.7,"body":"second term?"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":847.68,"endTime":849.343,"body":"GSM, mobile,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":847.68,"endTime":849.343,"body":"mobile phones. Went from sort of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":849.38,"endTime":851.708,"body":"analog to a more digital format"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":849.38,"endTime":851.708,"body":"and in particular, in Europe in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":851.745,"endTime":854.073,"body":"the 90s, right around the same"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":851.745,"endTime":854.073,"body":"timeframe as the webification of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":854.11,"endTime":856.438,"body":"the internet. We started rolling"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":854.11,"endTime":856.438,"body":"out these digital mobile phone"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":856.475,"endTime":858.73,"body":"networks. And the cumulative"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":856.475,"endTime":858.73,"body":"effect of those two technologies"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":858.767,"endTime":860.873,"body":"was to really just connect"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":858.767,"endTime":860.873,"body":"people's digital lives in ways"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":860.91,"endTime":863.091,"body":"that had never happened before."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":860.91,"endTime":863.091,"body":"It was an absolute sweeping"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":863.128,"endTime":865.419,"body":"change in the way that people"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":863.128,"endTime":865.419,"body":"lived. And then the dot com bust"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":865.456,"endTime":867.71,"body":"of the late 90s created kind of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":865.456,"endTime":867.71,"body":"a lot of smoke and light that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":867.747,"endTime":869.891,"body":"distracted everybody. But if"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":867.747,"endTime":869.891,"body":"you, you know, step back from"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":869.928,"endTime":872.33,"body":"that, as the dust settled on the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":869.928,"endTime":872.33,"body":"dot com bust, you woke up in the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":872.367,"endTime":874.289,"body":"early 2000s to a world that had"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":872.367,"endTime":874.289,"body":"just been completely"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":874.326,"endTime":876.691,"body":"transformed, you know, this this"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":874.326,"endTime":876.691,"body":"digital transformation that was"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":876.728,"endTime":878.982,"body":"sweeping the planet. So, what"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":876.728,"endTime":878.982,"body":"I'm setting up here, Keith, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":879.019,"endTime":881.126,"body":"know, to be able to tell the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":879.019,"endTime":881.126,"body":"story in terms of context is"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":881.163,"endTime":883.454,"body":"there was a basic disconnect."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":881.163,"endTime":883.454,"body":"The world was becoming digitally"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":883.491,"endTime":885.671,"body":"transformed, but CIA was laser"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":883.491,"endTime":885.671,"body":"focused on counterterrorism,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":885.708,"endTime":887.963,"body":"sort of distracted if you will,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":885.708,"endTime":887.963,"body":"even if you know only for all"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":888.0,"endTime":890.18,"body":"the right reasons. So in that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":888.0,"endTime":890.18,"body":"context by by like the, let's"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":890.217,"endTime":892.434,"body":"call it the the 20teens, there"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":890.217,"endTime":892.434,"body":"were voices at CIA urging the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":892.471,"endTime":894.504,"body":"organization like, hey, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":892.471,"endTime":894.504,"body":"know, we got to, look we're"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":894.541,"endTime":896.648,"body":"focused on on counterterrorism"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":894.541,"endTime":896.648,"body":"and that's, that's what we"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":896.685,"endTime":898.68,"body":"should be focused on, but we"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":896.685,"endTime":898.68,"body":"also have to start really"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":898.717,"endTime":900.861,"body":"thinking about this digital"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":898.717,"endTime":900.861,"body":"transformation and what that's"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":900.898,"endTime":903.115,"body":"going to mean to intelligence."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":900.898,"endTime":903.115,"body":"We have to start transforming"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":903.152,"endTime":905.443,"body":"and harnessing this new tech."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":903.152,"endTime":905.443,"body":"That dialogue, that that call to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":905.48,"endTime":907.365,"body":"arms manifested eventually in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":905.48,"endTime":907.365,"body":"the creation of a new"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":907.402,"endTime":909.361,"body":"Directorate at CIA, called the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":907.402,"endTime":909.361,"body":"Directorate of digital"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":909.398,"endTime":911.43,"body":"innovation. Now at CIA"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":909.398,"endTime":911.43,"body":"directorates are the big pillars"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":911.467,"endTime":913.574,"body":"of the org chart. And they"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":911.467,"endTime":913.574,"body":"supply people and resources to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":913.611,"endTime":915.606,"body":"various mission centers. These"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":913.611,"endTime":915.606,"body":"mission centers are the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":915.643,"endTime":917.787,"body":"operational chunks of CIA that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":915.643,"endTime":917.787,"body":"are focused on a particular"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":917.824,"endTime":920.115,"body":"region or on a particular topic."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":917.824,"endTime":920.115,"body":"And these directorates supply"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":920.152,"endTime":922.333,"body":"them with with money, you know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":920.152,"endTime":922.333,"body":"long term plans, resources,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":922.37,"endTime":924.513,"body":"people. So this brand new"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":922.37,"endTime":924.513,"body":"directorate, this Directorate of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":924.55,"endTime":926.804,"body":"digital innovation, and what we"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":924.55,"endTime":926.804,"body":"call the DDI was fully up and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":926.841,"endTime":928.763,"body":"running in like the 2015"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":926.841,"endTime":928.763,"body":"timeframe. Now, when it was"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":928.8,"endTime":930.87,"body":"created, and the agency"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":928.8,"endTime":930.87,"body":"developed the blueprints, if you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":930.907,"endTime":933.087,"body":"will, for it, IT, data and some"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":930.907,"endTime":933.087,"body":"elements of cyber, were all"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":933.124,"endTime":934.972,"body":"rolled into this new"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":933.124,"endTime":934.972,"body":"Directorate. But the decision"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":935.009,"endTime":937.3,"body":"was made during that planning"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":935.009,"endTime":937.3,"body":"period for this new directorate,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":937.337,"endTime":939.518,"body":"that they were going to leave"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":937.337,"endTime":939.518,"body":"the cybersecurity team in the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":939.555,"endTime":941.846,"body":"Directorate of support, which"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":939.555,"endTime":941.846,"body":"was where it had been for a long"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":941.883,"endTime":944.174,"body":"time. The Directorate of support"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":941.883,"endTime":944.174,"body":"has existed for many decades."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":944.211,"endTime":946.281,"body":"Now, this cyber defense team,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":944.211,"endTime":946.281,"body":"the cybersecurity team was"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":946.318,"endTime":948.572,"body":"staffed with super motivated,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":946.318,"endTime":948.572,"body":"highly capable people. And they"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":948.609,"endTime":950.716,"body":"they coordinated extremely"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":948.609,"endTime":950.716,"body":"closely with the DDI. And, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":950.753,"endTime":952.564,"body":"know, as you can imagine, at"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":950.753,"endTime":952.564,"body":"CIA, you got to take"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":952.6,"endTime":954.855,"body":"cybersecurity pretty seriously."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":952.6,"endTime":954.855,"body":"There are a ton of bad actors"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":954.892,"endTime":956.998,"body":"out there that will target CIA"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":954.892,"endTime":956.998,"body":"any way they can. Cyber is"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":957.035,"endTime":958.92,"body":"certainly no exception. But you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":957.035,"endTime":958.92,"body":"know, with with the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":958.957,"endTime":961.211,"body":"cybersecurity team over in one"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":958.957,"endTime":961.211,"body":"directorate, and all the other"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":961.248,"endTime":963.466,"body":"digital folks over in the new"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":961.248,"endTime":963.466,"body":"digital directorate, there was"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":963.503,"endTime":965.609,"body":"there was always a backburner"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":963.503,"endTime":965.609,"body":"discussion about whether it"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":965.646,"endTime":967.901,"body":"might make sense to move the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":965.646,"endTime":967.901,"body":"cybersecurity team into the DDI."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":967.938,"endTime":970.118,"body":"So that was all context so that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":967.938,"endTime":970.118,"body":"I can answer your question."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":970.155,"endTime":972.483,"body":"Sorry for the long explanation."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":970.155,"endTime":972.483,"body":"But so so here we are with that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":972.52,"endTime":974.701,"body":"context. And now I'll pause"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":972.52,"endTime":974.701,"body":"here, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":974.738,"endTime":976.992,"body":"I'm gonna answer your question"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":974.738,"endTime":976.992,"body":"about my role in in zero trust"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":977.029,"endTime":978.36,"body":"when I became CISO. All good so far?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1008.12,"endTime":1088.67,"body":"All good. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1008.12,"endTime":1088.67,"body":"All good. You know, context is"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1088.67,"endTime":1089.06,"body":"key."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1089.63,"endTime":1093.59,"body":"Okay. So when"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1089.63,"endTime":1093.59,"body":"I became CISO, right at the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1093.62,"endTime":1097.46,"body":"very, very end of 2020, kind of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1093.62,"endTime":1097.46,"body":"officially took over right at"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1097.46,"endTime":1102.8,"body":"the beginning of 2021. It was"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1097.46,"endTime":1102.8,"body":"against the backdrop of really"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1102.8,"endTime":1106.49,"body":"heavy nation state cyber"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1102.8,"endTime":1106.49,"body":"activity in the news. So things"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1106.49,"endTime":1112.91,"body":"like solar winds, and hafnium,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1106.49,"endTime":1112.91,"body":"you know, Russia, China, and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1112.91,"endTime":1116.87,"body":"everybody was suddenly very"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1112.91,"endTime":1116.87,"body":"aware of, of just this dynamic,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1117.32,"endTime":1122.24,"body":"you know, hostile cyber activity"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1117.32,"endTime":1122.24,"body":"going on against all manner of,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1122.24,"endTime":1125.96,"body":"you know, public and private"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1122.24,"endTime":1125.96,"body":"organizations. So the new"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1125.96,"endTime":1130.01,"body":"administration that was about to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1125.96,"endTime":1130.01,"body":"snap in, even before the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1130.04,"endTime":1133.61,"body":"inauguration, they kind of put"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1130.04,"endTime":1133.61,"body":"the word out in the executive"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1133.61,"endTime":1138.17,"body":"branch, like, Hey, we are going"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1133.61,"endTime":1138.17,"body":"to be very, very serious about"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1138.47,"endTime":1141.98,"body":"upping our game when it comes to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1138.47,"endTime":1141.98,"body":"cybersecurity. You know, we're"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1141.98,"endTime":1144.92,"body":"going to start with the, with"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1141.98,"endTime":1144.92,"body":"the executive branch, but you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1144.92,"endTime":1147.23,"body":"know, there's going to be a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1144.92,"endTime":1147.23,"body":"whole strategy. And so they were"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1147.23,"endTime":1150.14,"body":"already, like I said, even"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1147.23,"endTime":1150.14,"body":"before the inauguration, they'd"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1150.14,"endTime":1152.99,"body":"started sort of workshopping"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1150.14,"endTime":1152.99,"body":"some of the content and some of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1152.99,"endTime":1157.76,"body":"the thinking that was eventually"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1152.99,"endTime":1157.76,"body":"captured in an executive order"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1157.76,"endTime":1161.24,"body":"what we call an EO. In this"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1157.76,"endTime":1161.24,"body":"case, it was called executive"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1161.24,"endTime":1166.46,"body":"order 14028. Improving the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1161.24,"endTime":1166.46,"body":"nation's cybersecurity. That EO"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1166.46,"endTime":1172.55,"body":"came out in May of 2021. That"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1166.46,"endTime":1172.55,"body":"executive order told the entire"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1173.21,"endTime":1178.73,"body":"executive branch to embrace zero"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1173.21,"endTime":1178.73,"body":"trust architecture, among other"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1178.73,"endTime":1182.15,"body":"things. But zero trust"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1178.73,"endTime":1182.15,"body":"architecture, or what we call"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1182.15,"endTime":1185.57,"body":"ZTA was was one of the high"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1182.15,"endTime":1185.57,"body":"level guiding principles for"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1185.57,"endTime":1191.0,"body":"cybersecurity practitioners in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1185.57,"endTime":1191.0,"body":"the government ecosystem. So as"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1191.0,"endTime":1194.66,"body":"this was rolling out, you know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1191.0,"endTime":1194.66,"body":"in this early period of that new"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1194.66,"endTime":1199.28,"body":"administration, with with some"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1194.66,"endTime":1199.28,"body":"really highly capable cyber"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1199.28,"endTime":1202.88,"body":"officials and from different"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1199.28,"endTime":1202.88,"body":"parts of the government, we can"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1202.88,"endTime":1206.45,"body":"tell at CIA, that that was going"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1202.88,"endTime":1206.45,"body":"to create a tailwind for us to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1206.45,"endTime":1209.57,"body":"capitalize on. So we looked at"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1206.45,"endTime":1209.57,"body":"where we were in terms of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1209.57,"endTime":1213.68,"body":"strategy. And we decided that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1209.57,"endTime":1213.68,"body":"fully embracing this zero trust"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1213.68,"endTime":1217.52,"body":"push would be good for CIA cyber"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1213.68,"endTime":1217.52,"body":"defenders and would help us"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1217.52,"endTime":1220.13,"body":"bring, you know, the already"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1217.52,"endTime":1220.13,"body":"excellent capabilities to the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1220.13,"endTime":1225.23,"body":"next level. Now, it also became"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1220.13,"endTime":1225.23,"body":"clear to us that a comprehensive"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1225.23,"endTime":1229.7,"body":"push into zero trust would be"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1225.23,"endTime":1229.7,"body":"easier and more effective if we"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1229.7,"endTime":1234.35,"body":"repositioned the cybersecurity"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1229.7,"endTime":1234.35,"body":"team into the DDI. So that team"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1234.35,"endTime":1237.74,"body":"that had been left in that other"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1234.35,"endTime":1237.74,"body":"directorate, we decided, we're"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1237.74,"endTime":1241.85,"body":"going to move it over so that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1237.74,"endTime":1241.85,"body":"we'd have the IT teams, the data"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1241.85,"endTime":1244.97,"body":"teams, and all of the cyber"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1241.85,"endTime":1244.97,"body":"forces all positioned in the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1244.97,"endTime":1249.92,"body":"same part of the agency to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1244.97,"endTime":1249.92,"body":"foster closer cooperation, as we"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1249.92,"endTime":1253.85,"body":"pursued a long term zero trust"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1249.92,"endTime":1253.85,"body":"strategy. So at the time, when I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1253.85,"endTime":1257.12,"body":"spoke about it, I referred to a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1253.85,"endTime":1257.12,"body":"shift left strategy on an"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1257.15,"endTime":1261.74,"body":"organizational scale. Shift left"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1257.15,"endTime":1261.74,"body":"is a term that gets used to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1261.74,"endTime":1264.83,"body":"convey the idea of baking"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1261.74,"endTime":1264.83,"body":"security into the earliest"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1264.83,"endTime":1271.46,"body":"phases of IT system lifecycles."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1264.83,"endTime":1271.46,"body":"So without getting too nerdy, or"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1271.46,"endTime":1273.59,"body":"getting into a level of detail"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1271.46,"endTime":1273.59,"body":"that I can't really discuss"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1273.59,"endTime":1277.07,"body":"publicly, that was kind of the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1273.59,"endTime":1277.07,"body":"essence of my role as the CISO"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1277.07,"endTime":1280.37,"body":"was looking at the overall"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1277.07,"endTime":1280.37,"body":"strategy, embracing this big"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1280.37,"endTime":1285.38,"body":"push towards zero trust and, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1280.37,"endTime":1285.38,"body":"know, being one of the players"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1285.38,"endTime":1287.93,"body":"that was managing some pretty"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1285.38,"endTime":1287.93,"body":"significant organizational"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1287.93,"endTime":1291.53,"body":"changes, to make sure our teams"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1287.93,"endTime":1291.53,"body":"were integrated in the right"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1291.53,"endTime":1295.16,"body":"way. And, you know, since I've"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1291.53,"endTime":1295.16,"body":"never really told this whole"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1295.16,"endTime":1298.73,"body":"story like this publicly, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1295.16,"endTime":1298.73,"body":"know, if you'll indulge me for a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1298.73,"endTime":1301.01,"body":"second, I want to give a huge"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1298.73,"endTime":1301.01,"body":"shout out to the folks who were"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1301.01,"endTime":1304.37,"body":"involved in that both within the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1301.01,"endTime":1304.37,"body":"Directorate of support and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1304.37,"endTime":1307.31,"body":"within the Directorate of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1304.37,"endTime":1307.31,"body":"digital innovation. You know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1307.31,"endTime":1310.76,"body":"CIA really leaned into this"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1307.31,"endTime":1310.76,"body":"transformation in a big way."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1311.81,"endTime":1314.09,"body":"And, you know, I can tell you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1311.81,"endTime":1314.09,"body":"being on the field with all"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1314.09,"endTime":1317.03,"body":"these great all these great"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1314.09,"endTime":1317.03,"body":"teammates during this period"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1317.03,"endTime":1320.27,"body":"was, you know, honestly, it was"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1317.03,"endTime":1320.27,"body":"really humbling and gratifying."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1320.27,"endTime":1323.66,"body":"And it was probably one of my"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1320.27,"endTime":1323.66,"body":"favorite chapters in my career."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1323.93,"endTime":1327.74,"body":"I was excited a couple days ago"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1323.93,"endTime":1327.74,"body":"to notice that people are"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1327.74,"endTime":1330.74,"body":"catching on on LinkedIn, I guess"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1327.74,"endTime":1330.74,"body":"it's the cats out of the bag"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1330.74,"endTime":1336.59,"body":"that my, my partner, the CIO,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1330.74,"endTime":1336.59,"body":"when I was the CISO, someone who"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1336.59,"endTime":1340.43,"body":"I worked with closely on a daily"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1336.59,"endTime":1340.43,"body":"basis, an officer named Juliane"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1340.43,"endTime":1344.66,"body":"Gallina was actually just"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1340.43,"endTime":1344.66,"body":"recently fleeted up and she is"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1344.66,"endTime":1348.68,"body":"now the Deputy Director for"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1344.66,"endTime":1348.68,"body":"digital innovation for all of,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1348.68,"endTime":1352.07,"body":"so she's basically CIA's Chief"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1348.68,"endTime":1352.07,"body":"Digital Officer, and all of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1352.07,"endTime":1355.22,"body":"these forces arrayed under her"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1352.07,"endTime":1355.22,"body":"will be responsible for, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1355.22,"endTime":1357.8,"body":"know, continuing on this zero"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1355.22,"endTime":1357.8,"body":"trust journey."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1357.0,"endTime":1360.99,"body":"There's certainly"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1357.0,"endTime":1360.99,"body":"a lot to chew on there. The I'd"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1360.99,"endTime":1365.79,"body":"like to ask about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1360.99,"endTime":1365.79,"body":"after this authorization, this"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1365.94,"endTime":1372.57,"body":"EO was announced, the ripple"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1365.94,"endTime":1372.57,"body":"effects must have been dramatic."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1373.38,"endTime":1378.24,"body":"I think I think it goes that if"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1373.38,"endTime":1378.24,"body":"you if you are an agency, or if"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1378.24,"endTime":1382.95,"body":"you're a company that wants to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1378.24,"endTime":1382.95,"body":"work with the CIA, or you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1382.95,"endTime":1387.66,"body":"federal entities, you now have a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1382.95,"endTime":1387.66,"body":"framework, you have a compliance"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1387.66,"endTime":1392.37,"body":"that you have to abide by, that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1387.66,"endTime":1392.37,"body":"has zero trust elements inside"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1392.85,"endTime":1397.08,"body":"this, you know, took the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1392.85,"endTime":1397.08,"body":"marketplace by storm. And and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1397.08,"endTime":1400.32,"body":"we're still seeing it today. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1397.08,"endTime":1400.32,"body":"in some ways, I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1400.35,"endTime":1405.09,"body":"organizations represent what"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1400.35,"endTime":1405.09,"body":"zero trust frameworks are"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1405.09,"endTime":1408.21,"body":"accurately and then there's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1405.09,"endTime":1408.21,"body":"certainly a lot of market where"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1408.87,"endTime":1413.13,"body":"they like to use the buzzword"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1408.87,"endTime":1413.13,"body":"because of how legitimate it is."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1413.73,"endTime":1419.31,"body":"But the the ripple effect of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1413.73,"endTime":1419.31,"body":"announcement of this cohort"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1419.31,"endTime":1424.92,"body":"strategy of the Zero Trust"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1419.31,"endTime":1424.92,"body":"Architecture Framework, did CIA"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1424.92,"endTime":1429.24,"body":"anticipate this to be a such a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1424.92,"endTime":1429.24,"body":"seismic shift in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1429.24,"endTime":1432.87,"body":"cybersecurity industry? Or were"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1429.24,"endTime":1432.87,"body":"you guys kind of caught by"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1432.87,"endTime":1433.53,"body":"surprise?"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1433.58,"endTime":1436.25,"body":"No, I think"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1433.58,"endTime":1436.25,"body":"we we did kind of see it coming"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1436.25,"endTime":1440.03,"body":"because of the the seriousness"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1436.25,"endTime":1440.03,"body":"of the folks that were put in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1440.03,"endTime":1442.46,"body":"charge. I mean, if you look at"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1440.03,"endTime":1442.46,"body":"this timeframe that I'm"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1442.46,"endTime":1445.55,"body":"describing, if you look at the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1442.46,"endTime":1445.55,"body":"cyber officials who were, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1445.55,"endTime":1449.12,"body":"know, who were brought in to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1445.55,"endTime":1449.12,"body":"guide this strategy, you know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1449.12,"endTime":1452.57,"body":"you had Anne Neuberger at the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1449.12,"endTime":1452.57,"body":"White House, you had a guy named"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1452.57,"endTime":1456.08,"body":"Rob Joyce come back to run the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1452.57,"endTime":1456.08,"body":"Cybersecurity Directorate at"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1456.08,"endTime":1460.7,"body":"NSA, you had Chris Inglis as the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1456.08,"endTime":1460.7,"body":"National Cyber Director, and Jen"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1460.7,"endTime":1465.05,"body":"Easterly at CISA. Right, these"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1460.7,"endTime":1465.05,"body":"are very, very serious, very"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1465.05,"endTime":1469.76,"body":"highly esteemed cyber"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1465.05,"endTime":1469.76,"body":"professionals. And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1469.76,"endTime":1471.98,"body":"the table was set, and it was"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1469.76,"endTime":1471.98,"body":"pretty clear that this was going"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1471.98,"endTime":1475.31,"body":"to be a significant push. The"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1471.98,"endTime":1475.31,"body":"folks who I think were caught a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1475.31,"endTime":1478.1,"body":"little bit off guard was there"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1475.31,"endTime":1478.1,"body":"was a lot of, this is one man's"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1478.1,"endTime":1480.98,"body":"opinion, by the way, so you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1478.1,"endTime":1480.98,"body":"know, agree with me or not."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1481.49,"endTime":1486.65,"body":"There was a lot of eye rolling"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1481.49,"endTime":1486.65,"body":"in some corners of the executive"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1486.65,"endTime":1490.97,"body":"branch industry prior to that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1486.65,"endTime":1490.97,"body":"period, about this whole idea of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1490.97,"endTime":1493.61,"body":"zero trust. You would hear a lot"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1490.97,"endTime":1493.61,"body":"of people say, you know, I don't"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1493.61,"endTime":1496.25,"body":"like the term, this is what this"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1493.61,"endTime":1496.25,"body":"is, this is what I call"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1496.25,"endTime":1498.92,"body":"cybersecurity, right. You there"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1496.25,"endTime":1498.92,"body":"was there was just a lot of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1499.1,"endTime":1503.6,"body":"skepticism about the need for a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1499.1,"endTime":1503.6,"body":"term and a push like this. But"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1503.6,"endTime":1508.1,"body":"when the EO came out against the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1503.6,"endTime":1508.1,"body":"backdrop of having all of these"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1508.22,"endTime":1512.57,"body":"really amazing leaders in place,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1508.22,"endTime":1512.57,"body":"if you read that executive order"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1513.05,"endTime":1516.44,"body":"it, you can tell that the people"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1513.05,"endTime":1516.44,"body":"who put that together knew what"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1516.44,"endTime":1519.35,"body":"they were doing. It's actually"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1516.44,"endTime":1519.35,"body":"surprisingly prescriptive. It"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1519.35,"endTime":1523.07,"body":"says, you know, embrace zero"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1519.35,"endTime":1523.07,"body":"trust, embrace the cloud, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1523.07,"endTime":1528.56,"body":"know, do better with logging all"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1523.07,"endTime":1528.56,"body":"of these things. And so, what I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1528.56,"endTime":1533.09,"body":"saw happen was, I felt like, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1528.56,"endTime":1533.09,"body":"know, and I dealt with a lot of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1533.09,"endTime":1535.85,"body":"vendors, everybody sort of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1533.09,"endTime":1535.85,"body":"snapped to and said, okay, zero"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1535.85,"endTime":1538.46,"body":"trust it is. We are going to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1535.85,"endTime":1538.46,"body":"embrace this, we are going to,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1538.58,"endTime":1542.75,"body":"you know, gonna go boldly into"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1538.58,"endTime":1542.75,"body":"this new future. And you're"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1542.75,"endTime":1546.56,"body":"right, you hit on a, an almost"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1542.75,"endTime":1546.56,"body":"comical element of this whole"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1546.56,"endTime":1549.77,"body":"transition, which was that, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1546.56,"endTime":1549.77,"body":"know, we would joke about people"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1549.77,"endTime":1552.71,"body":"selling zero trust coffee mugs,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1549.77,"endTime":1552.71,"body":"and you know, everything"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1552.71,"endTime":1555.8,"body":"suddenly was branded as zero"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1552.71,"endTime":1555.8,"body":"trust to be consistent with this"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1555.83,"endTime":1560.03,"body":"EO. But I wouldn't say that in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1555.83,"endTime":1560.03,"body":"government, we were we were"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1560.03,"endTime":1563.84,"body":"surprised that people took it"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1560.03,"endTime":1563.84,"body":"seriously. I think we knew that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1563.84,"endTime":1567.08,"body":"it was a serious group of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1563.84,"endTime":1567.08,"body":"people. And you know, that this"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1567.08,"endTime":1570.05,"body":"was going to be a turning point"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1567.08,"endTime":1570.05,"body":"for the US government where we"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1570.05,"endTime":1572.27,"body":"said, okay, enough is enough,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1570.05,"endTime":1572.27,"body":"we've really got to raise the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1572.27,"endTime":1574.1,"body":"waterline on cybersecurity."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1574.54,"endTime":1576.4,"body":"Yeah. And then"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1574.54,"endTime":1576.4,"body":"and, you know, we certainly have"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1576.4,"endTime":1579.67,"body":"seen the results of that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1576.4,"endTime":1579.67,"body":"development, you know. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1580.24,"endTime":1584.95,"body":"switching gears here, in more"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1580.24,"endTime":1584.95,"body":"recent years, in the last year,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1584.98,"endTime":1591.82,"body":"generative AI, has been the talk"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1584.98,"endTime":1591.82,"body":"of the town, in 2023, 2024."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1592.0,"endTime":1596.59,"body":"This, of course, is building"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1592.0,"endTime":1596.59,"body":"upon the shoulders of machine"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1596.59,"endTime":1600.1,"body":"learning and artificial"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1596.59,"endTime":1600.1,"body":"intelligence on algorithmic"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1600.13,"endTime":1603.07,"body":"functions that are they're"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1600.13,"endTime":1603.07,"body":"solving problems and data sets"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1603.07,"endTime":1607.93,"body":"for a long time. But the more"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1603.07,"endTime":1607.93,"body":"generative, LLM models today are"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1607.93,"endTime":1612.28,"body":"far more compelling, at least to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1607.93,"endTime":1612.28,"body":"the public, than they were a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1612.28,"endTime":1617.2,"body":"year and a half ago. And I want"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1612.28,"endTime":1617.2,"body":"to get your opinion, William on"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1617.29,"endTime":1622.78,"body":"how does generative AI impact"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1617.29,"endTime":1622.78,"body":"the offensive and defensive"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1623.38,"endTime":1626.92,"body":"cybersecurity strategies and the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1623.38,"endTime":1626.92,"body":"commercial space today? Where do"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1626.92,"endTime":1627.88,"body":"you see this going?"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1629.19,"endTime":1631.26,"body":"Yeah, it's a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1629.19,"endTime":1631.26,"body":"great question, Keith, I'm asked"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1631.26,"endTime":1634.71,"body":"about this a lot actually."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1631.26,"endTime":1634.71,"body":"There's a ton of enthusiasm for"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1634.74,"endTime":1639.15,"body":"generative AI, in particular Gen"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1634.74,"endTime":1639.15,"body":"AI in the cyber world right now."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1639.72,"endTime":1643.14,"body":"There's also a lot of anxiety"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1639.72,"endTime":1643.14,"body":"about what it means in terms of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1643.17,"endTime":1647.19,"body":"new capabilities in the hands of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1643.17,"endTime":1647.19,"body":"bad guys. Overall, I'd say that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1647.19,"endTime":1651.72,"body":"right now a snapshot in time,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1647.19,"endTime":1651.72,"body":"there's pretty decent consensus"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1651.72,"endTime":1654.9,"body":"that we see Gen AI in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1651.72,"endTime":1654.9,"body":"particular, bringing a slight"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1654.9,"endTime":1658.62,"body":"advantage to defense. In other"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1654.9,"endTime":1658.62,"body":"words, Gen AI favors defense a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1658.62,"endTime":1661.05,"body":"little bit more than offense."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1658.62,"endTime":1661.05,"body":"Definitely bad guys are"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1661.05,"endTime":1665.16,"body":"capitalizing on Gen AI. In"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1661.05,"endTime":1665.16,"body":"particular, things like phishing"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1665.16,"endTime":1669.24,"body":"attacks, business email"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1665.16,"endTime":1669.24,"body":"compromise, right? Like like"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1669.24,"endTime":1672.99,"body":"content and language rich"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1669.24,"endTime":1672.99,"body":"approaches to you know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1672.99,"endTime":1676.53,"body":"malicious cyber activity. Those"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1672.99,"endTime":1676.53,"body":"are becoming more sophisticated"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1676.53,"endTime":1680.13,"body":"as a result of the language"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1676.53,"endTime":1680.13,"body":"capabilities that Gen AI can"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1680.13,"endTime":1684.18,"body":"bring to criminal and nation"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1680.13,"endTime":1684.18,"body":"state threat actor groups. On"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1684.18,"endTime":1688.11,"body":"the defense side, though, we're"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1684.18,"endTime":1688.11,"body":"starting to see Gen AI harnessed"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1688.11,"endTime":1692.37,"body":"in ways that are going to help"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1688.11,"endTime":1692.37,"body":"the overworked and overwhelmed"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1692.37,"endTime":1696.15,"body":"cyber defenders that need to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1692.37,"endTime":1696.15,"body":"operate, you know, a lot more"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1696.15,"endTime":1700.02,"body":"efficiently if they're going to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1696.15,"endTime":1700.02,"body":"deal with the just oceans of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1700.02,"endTime":1704.31,"body":"data, they're generally drowning"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1700.02,"endTime":1704.31,"body":"in on daily basis. This is a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1704.37,"endTime":1707.34,"body":"super, super interesting area"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1704.37,"endTime":1707.34,"body":"for me, and it's definitely"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1707.34,"endTime":1711.24,"body":"something to keep an eye on. So,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1707.34,"endTime":1711.24,"body":"you know, cyber is always a cat"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1711.24,"endTime":1715.41,"body":"and mouse game. And for sure, in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1711.24,"endTime":1715.41,"body":"the defensive world, we need to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1715.41,"endTime":1718.95,"body":"stay on high alert about bad"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1715.41,"endTime":1718.95,"body":"actors leveraging Gen AI. For"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1718.95,"endTime":1722.85,"body":"now, I'm in the optimistic camp,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1718.95,"endTime":1722.85,"body":"that it's a technology that is"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1722.91,"endTime":1726.12,"body":"for once sort of skewing in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1722.91,"endTime":1726.12,"body":"favor of defense teams."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1727.26,"endTime":1729.42,"body":"Well, that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1727.26,"endTime":1729.42,"body":"certainly a breath of fresh air"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1729.42,"endTime":1735.72,"body":"for those that are laboring in"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1729.42,"endTime":1735.72,"body":"SOCS and feeling like it can be"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1735.81,"endTime":1740.64,"body":"a losing battle and in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1735.81,"endTime":1740.64,"body":"ways an uphill road at minimum."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1740.76,"endTime":1746.07,"body":"But speaking of optimism, tell"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1740.76,"endTime":1746.07,"body":"me about Red Cell Partners. What"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1746.07,"endTime":1751.41,"body":"are you guys incubating and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1746.07,"endTime":1751.41,"body":"investing in? And I think you"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1751.41,"endTime":1756.81,"body":"are a part of a an exciting"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1751.41,"endTime":1756.81,"body":"project here in stealth mode."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1757.53,"endTime":1761.64,"body":"For those in the venture capital"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1757.53,"endTime":1761.64,"body":"space, you will understand what"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1761.64,"endTime":1765.24,"body":"that means. But can you tell me"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1761.64,"endTime":1765.24,"body":"a little bit about your role at"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1765.27,"endTime":1768.45,"body":"Red Cell Partners and what"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1765.27,"endTime":1768.45,"body":"you're working on over there?"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1768.69,"endTime":1772.35,"body":"Yeah, sure."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1768.69,"endTime":1772.35,"body":"So, Red Cell Partners is an"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1772.35,"endTime":1776.19,"body":"incubation foundry. It makes"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1772.35,"endTime":1776.19,"body":"startups, it's a startup"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1776.19,"endTime":1780.57,"body":"factory. And it operates along"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1776.19,"endTime":1780.57,"body":"the lines of three practices. So"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1780.57,"endTime":1784.11,"body":"there's a healthcare practice, a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1780.57,"endTime":1784.11,"body":"national defense practice, and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1784.11,"endTime":1787.14,"body":"now our newest practice is a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1784.11,"endTime":1787.14,"body":"cyber practice that's being led"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1787.14,"endTime":1790.62,"body":"by George Barnes, the recently"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1787.14,"endTime":1790.62,"body":"retired deputy director from"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1790.62,"endTime":1793.65,"body":"NSA. He retired last fall, and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1790.62,"endTime":1793.65,"body":"now he's running the cyber"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1793.65,"endTime":1798.84,"body":"practice at at Red Cell. So so"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1793.65,"endTime":1798.84,"body":"that's what Red Cell does. I am"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1798.87,"endTime":1802.62,"body":"Chief Product Officer as you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1798.87,"endTime":1802.62,"body":"mentioned in a particular"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1802.68,"endTime":1806.52,"body":"incubation under the cyber"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1802.68,"endTime":1806.52,"body":"practice, so we're still in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1806.52,"endTime":1809.46,"body":"stealth, which means that, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1806.52,"endTime":1809.46,"body":"know, we're not really"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1809.46,"endTime":1812.34,"body":"discussing what we're working on"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1809.46,"endTime":1812.34,"body":"yet, we're not really discussing"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1812.34,"endTime":1814.89,"body":"our name yet, we haven't really"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1812.34,"endTime":1814.89,"body":"sort of announced the whole team"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1814.89,"endTime":1818.01,"body":"yet, there's not a ton that I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1814.89,"endTime":1818.01,"body":"want to discuss at the moment,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1818.01,"endTime":1820.71,"body":"we probably won't be in stealth"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1818.01,"endTime":1820.71,"body":"for too too much longer. But"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1820.71,"endTime":1825.03,"body":"what I can tell you for now is"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1820.71,"endTime":1825.03,"body":"that I was motivated to join"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1825.03,"endTime":1829.74,"body":"this particular startup as the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1825.03,"endTime":1829.74,"body":"CPO because I see an opportunity"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1829.74,"endTime":1833.76,"body":"to really move the needle on"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1829.74,"endTime":1833.76,"body":"defense. And in particular, to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1833.76,"endTime":1836.88,"body":"help these hard working folks on"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1833.76,"endTime":1836.88,"body":"cyber defense teams that we just"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1836.88,"endTime":1839.85,"body":"talked about who have these, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1836.88,"endTime":1839.85,"body":"know, relentless, stressful,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1839.85,"endTime":1842.88,"body":"overwhelming jobs. Basically, I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1839.85,"endTime":1842.88,"body":"want to help the humans of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1842.88,"endTime":1845.97,"body":"cyber. There are some key"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1842.88,"endTime":1845.97,"body":"startups working on new"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1845.97,"endTime":1848.88,"body":"technologies that I think are"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1845.97,"endTime":1848.88,"body":"gonna find the shift the balance"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1848.88,"endTime":1851.97,"body":"of power, more in favor of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1848.88,"endTime":1851.97,"body":"defenders. And, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1851.97,"endTime":1855.3,"body":"thrilled to be part of that. So"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1851.97,"endTime":1855.3,"body":"keep an eye on this space. And"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1855.39,"endTime":1857.64,"body":"maybe when we come out of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1855.39,"endTime":1857.64,"body":"stealth, I can come back and we"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1857.64,"endTime":1860.73,"body":"can discuss my my particular"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1857.64,"endTime":1860.73,"body":"startup a little bit more."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1860.0,"endTime":1864.56,"body":"Ah, so vague, so"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1860.0,"endTime":1864.56,"body":"vague, not enough information."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1864.56,"endTime":1868.73,"body":"But we'll, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1864.56,"endTime":1868.73,"body":"definitely when, when, when"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1868.73,"endTime":1873.02,"body":"things become clearer, and the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1868.73,"endTime":1873.02,"body":"incubation is now open to the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1873.02,"endTime":1877.07,"body":"market I'd love to have you back"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1873.02,"endTime":1877.07,"body":"on. But I'll tell you that the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1877.07,"endTime":1883.58,"body":"most important question I have"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1877.07,"endTime":1883.58,"body":"about stealth is, and this this"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1883.58,"endTime":1886.19,"body":"is the question I get most I"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1883.58,"endTime":1886.19,"body":"mean, so you're probably going"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1886.19,"endTime":1890.39,"body":"to have like a light mode and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1886.19,"endTime":1890.39,"body":"dark mode to the platform. But"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1890.39,"endTime":1894.05,"body":"what my seven year old son wants"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1890.39,"endTime":1894.05,"body":"to know is when are you coming"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1894.05,"endTime":1897.86,"body":"out with a rainbow mode. When"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1894.05,"endTime":1897.86,"body":"when is rainbow coming?"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1898.91,"endTime":1901.22,"body":"Well, I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1898.91,"endTime":1901.22,"body":"obviously can't give away any"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1901.22,"endTime":1904.94,"body":"trade secrets, you know, we're"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1901.22,"endTime":1904.94,"body":"working on our intellectual"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1904.94,"endTime":1909.98,"body":"property now. But I will, you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1904.94,"endTime":1909.98,"body":"know, as the product guy, my"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1909.98,"endTime":1914.09,"body":"responsibility is to the backlog"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1909.98,"endTime":1914.09,"body":"of features and functionality"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1914.09,"endTime":1916.49,"body":"that we're going to build into"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1914.09,"endTime":1916.49,"body":"the platform. I will take this"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1916.49,"endTime":1918.8,"body":"back to the team, and I'll make"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1916.49,"endTime":1918.8,"body":"sure that we're prioritizing"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1918.8,"endTime":1919.43,"body":"rainbow mode."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1920.15,"endTime":1923.51,"body":"There is a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1920.15,"endTime":1923.51,"body":"marketplace, I'll tell you. So,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1923.54,"endTime":1925.7,"body":"You're out"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1923.54,"endTime":1925.7,"body":"there in the market, I believe"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":1927.74,"endTime":1928.04,"body":"you."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1927.98,"endTime":1931.278,"body":"Yeah, dark mode,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1927.98,"endTime":1931.278,"body":"light mode, rainbow mode. Now,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1931.348,"endTime":1935.558,"body":"here we go. It is it is funny"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1931.348,"endTime":1935.558,"body":"how, I'm on tech demos all the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1935.628,"endTime":1939.979,"body":"time. And the sell for for dark"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1935.628,"endTime":1939.979,"body":"mode is I mean, most platforms"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1940.049,"endTime":1944.47,"body":"have a dark mode today, and but"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1940.049,"endTime":1944.47,"body":"but you know, the reps that are"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1944.54,"endTime":1948.89,"body":"on these tech demo calls are all"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1944.54,"endTime":1948.89,"body":"very excited to announce that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1948.96,"endTime":1952.96,"body":"they have dark mode. And it's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1948.96,"endTime":1952.96,"body":"like, oh check it out, Dark"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1953.03,"endTime":1956.89,"body":"Mode. William, I really"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1953.03,"endTime":1956.89,"body":"appreciate the time that you've"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1956.96,"endTime":1961.31,"body":"spent today, with us on the IT"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1956.96,"endTime":1961.31,"body":"Matters podcast, I want to make"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1961.381,"endTime":1965.24,"body":"sure to include all the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1961.381,"endTime":1965.24,"body":"documentation and you know, the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1965.31,"endTime":1969.38,"body":"people that you pointed out and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1965.31,"endTime":1969.38,"body":"the organizations that are"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1969.45,"endTime":1973.029,"body":"supporting CIA in cinema. I"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1969.45,"endTime":1973.029,"body":"think that's a valuable"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1973.099,"endTime":1977.309,"body":"enterprise and it only leads to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1973.099,"endTime":1977.309,"body":"a younger generation that is"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1977.379,"endTime":1981.8,"body":"poised and prepared to take on a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1977.379,"endTime":1981.8,"body":"life of service, which is much"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1981.87,"endTime":1986.431,"body":"needed in our civil services, in"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1981.87,"endTime":1986.431,"body":"our in our military service, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1986.501,"endTime":1990.852,"body":"government service is is eager"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1986.501,"endTime":1990.852,"body":"and dedicated young people that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1990.922,"endTime":1995.413,"body":"are that are willing to make the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1990.922,"endTime":1995.413,"body":"sacrifice for for all of us. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1995.483,"endTime":1999.483,"body":"I want to make sure to include"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1995.483,"endTime":1999.483,"body":"that. One of the important"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1999.553,"endTime":2003.693,"body":"elements of the IT Matters"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1999.553,"endTime":2003.693,"body":"podcast is a sense of community,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2003.763,"endTime":2008.184,"body":"a sense of being able to bounce"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2003.763,"endTime":2008.184,"body":"ideas off each other. We have a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2008.254,"endTime":2012.324,"body":"lot of IT leaders that tune in,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2008.254,"endTime":2012.324,"body":"where can people find you,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2012.394,"endTime":2016.534,"body":"William, if they have a question"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2012.394,"endTime":2016.534,"body":"about one of the topics we"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2016.604,"endTime":2020.815,"body":"discussed or they'd like to pick"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2016.604,"endTime":2020.815,"body":"your brain on something, if"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2020.885,"endTime":2025.165,"body":"interested in stealth when when"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2020.885,"endTime":2025.165,"body":"Stealth is is released? Where"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2025.235,"endTime":2026.92,"body":"can people find you him?"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2027.05,"endTime":2029.63,"body":"Yeah, great"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2027.05,"endTime":2029.63,"body":"question. So old habits die"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2029.63,"endTime":2034.43,"body":"hard. And as you might be able"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2029.63,"endTime":2034.43,"body":"to imagine, retired CIA officers"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2034.43,"endTime":2038.33,"body":"aren't usually hugely into"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2034.43,"endTime":2038.33,"body":"social media and a big web"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2038.33,"endTime":2042.35,"body":"presence. I do LinkedIn. And"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2038.33,"endTime":2042.35,"body":"that's really the primary space"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2042.38,"endTime":2046.46,"body":"that I'm active in. When we come"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2042.38,"endTime":2046.46,"body":"out of stealth, our company will"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2046.46,"endTime":2049.61,"body":"also have a website, you'll have"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2046.46,"endTime":2049.61,"body":"the ability to reach out to us"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2049.61,"endTime":2054.53,"body":"that way. For now, it's probably"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2049.61,"endTime":2054.53,"body":"LinkedIn, just following events"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2054.53,"endTime":2057.05,"body":"that I'm going to attend and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2054.53,"endTime":2057.05,"body":"that sort of thing. But we'll be"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2057.08,"endTime":2060.17,"body":"a little bit splashier, once we"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2057.08,"endTime":2060.17,"body":"kind of announce what we're"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2060.17,"endTime":2062.69,"body":"working on and get out there"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2060.17,"endTime":2062.69,"body":"into the marketplace."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2063.11,"endTime":2066.11,"body":"So you're telling"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2063.11,"endTime":2066.11,"body":"me that former CIA leaders"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2066.35,"endTime":2068.51,"body":"aren't major influencers on Tik"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2066.35,"endTime":2068.51,"body":"Tok?"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2069.77,"endTime":2072.41,"body":"Yeah, we're"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2069.77,"endTime":2072.41,"body":"not on Tik Tok. I don't I don't"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2072.41,"endTime":2077.06,"body":"want to get into any proprietary"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2072.41,"endTime":2077.06,"body":"debates here. But you know, I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2077.06,"endTime":2079.1,"body":"don't have Tik Tok on my"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2077.06,"endTime":2079.1,"body":"personal phone, let me put it"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2079.1,"endTime":2079.43,"body":"that way."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2080.29,"endTime":2082.3,"body":"Yeah, you and I"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2080.29,"endTime":2082.3,"body":"are the same. Well, I'll make"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2082.3,"endTime":2085.81,"body":"sure to include your LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2082.3,"endTime":2085.81,"body":"information in the call notes."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2085.84,"endTime":2089.71,"body":"And is there any last word and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2085.84,"endTime":2089.71,"body":"you know, I actually I'd like to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2089.71,"endTime":2092.32,"body":"ask you a question about the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2089.71,"endTime":2092.32,"body":"younger generation right before"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2092.32,"endTime":2097.18,"body":"we leave. If we have, we have"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2092.32,"endTime":2097.18,"body":"some of the IT visionaries that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2097.18,"endTime":2100.48,"body":"listen to the podcast, but we"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2097.18,"endTime":2100.48,"body":"also have a younger audience"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2100.48,"endTime":2104.53,"body":"that want to get into the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2100.48,"endTime":2104.53,"body":"industry want to make an impact"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2104.53,"endTime":2108.91,"body":"and are eager and excited, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2104.53,"endTime":2108.91,"body":"particularly when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2108.97,"endTime":2113.26,"body":"defending our nation in the IT"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2108.97,"endTime":2113.26,"body":"and cybersecurity space. What"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2113.26,"endTime":2117.28,"body":"kind of message would you would"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2113.26,"endTime":2117.28,"body":"you tell a young person that is"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2117.28,"endTime":2120.34,"body":"interested in this career? And"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2117.28,"endTime":2120.34,"body":"do you have any guidance that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2120.34,"endTime":2121.15,"body":"you might impart?"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2121.3,"endTime":2123.25,"body":"Yeah, I would"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2121.3,"endTime":2123.25,"body":"say there's several things,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2123.28,"endTime":2125.98,"body":"right. So people reach out to me"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2123.28,"endTime":2125.98,"body":"and asked me about this all the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2125.98,"endTime":2128.98,"body":"time. First and foremost, I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2125.98,"endTime":2128.98,"body":"can't emphasize enough, I don't"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2128.98,"endTime":2132.16,"body":"know why people wouldn't want to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2128.98,"endTime":2132.16,"body":"work in cybersecurity, like it"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2132.16,"endTime":2136.06,"body":"is where the action is. It's"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2132.16,"endTime":2136.06,"body":"super fun. It's an incredibly"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2136.06,"endTime":2140.68,"body":"dynamic field. It's transforming"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2136.06,"endTime":2140.68,"body":"a lot right now after, you know,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2140.68,"endTime":2143.29,"body":"after a period that a lot of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2140.68,"endTime":2143.29,"body":"folks would argue the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2143.29,"endTime":2145.96,"body":"technologies were sort of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2143.29,"endTime":2145.96,"body":"stagnating. And you know, we"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2145.96,"endTime":2149.17,"body":"were we were kind of mired in"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2145.96,"endTime":2149.17,"body":"the same problems, there's a ton"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2149.17,"endTime":2153.37,"body":"of optimism, it's a very dynamic"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2149.17,"endTime":2153.37,"body":"place where you just can't get"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2153.37,"endTime":2157.09,"body":"enough cyber talent nowadays. So"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2153.37,"endTime":2157.09,"body":"it's a wonderful place to try to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2157.09,"endTime":2160.39,"body":"set yourself up if you're a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2157.09,"endTime":2160.39,"body":"young professional looking for,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2160.42,"endTime":2163.6,"body":"you know, what vector should I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2160.42,"endTime":2163.6,"body":"head out on for the next phase"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2163.6,"endTime":2167.68,"body":"of my career. In terms of how to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2163.6,"endTime":2167.68,"body":"approach it, just jump in and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2167.68,"endTime":2171.22,"body":"start is my overwhelming"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2167.68,"endTime":2171.22,"body":"guidance to people. Like I,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2171.55,"endTime":2174.16,"body":"folks will reach out and they'll"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2171.55,"endTime":2174.16,"body":"be a little wrapped around the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2174.16,"endTime":2177.43,"body":"axle about, you know, what"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2174.16,"endTime":2177.43,"body":"certification do I need? What,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2177.52,"endTime":2180.67,"body":"what training do I need? How"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2177.52,"endTime":2180.67,"body":"technical do I need to be, I'll"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2180.67,"endTime":2183.97,"body":"use myself as an example. You"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2180.67,"endTime":2183.97,"body":"know, I've worked in cyber for a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2183.97,"endTime":2186.97,"body":"long time now. And I'm not"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2183.97,"endTime":2186.97,"body":"deeply, deeply technical. I"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2186.97,"endTime":2189.61,"body":"don't have you know, a computer"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2186.97,"endTime":2189.61,"body":"science engineering degree or"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2189.61,"endTime":2192.55,"body":"anything, I have certainly had"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2189.61,"endTime":2192.55,"body":"to take training and go back to"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2192.55,"endTime":2194.47,"body":"school and do all of those"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2192.55,"endTime":2194.47,"body":"things. But you can do that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2194.47,"endTime":2197.41,"body":"along the way as you're"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2194.47,"endTime":2197.41,"body":"immersing yourself in it and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2197.41,"endTime":2201.88,"body":"learning the field. So the main"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2197.41,"endTime":2201.88,"body":"thing is get out there. Interact"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2201.88,"endTime":2205.03,"body":"with people, cybersecurity"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2201.88,"endTime":2205.03,"body":"people like to pretend that"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2205.03,"endTime":2207.76,"body":"they're very surly, and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2205.03,"endTime":2207.76,"body":"curmudgeonly, especially at the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2207.76,"endTime":2211.39,"body":"sort of, you know, more senior"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2207.76,"endTime":2211.39,"body":"executive level, because it is a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2211.39,"endTime":2214.6,"body":"stressful field. But the reality"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2211.39,"endTime":2214.6,"body":"is, if you reach out to folks,"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2214.6,"endTime":2218.14,"body":"and you seek mentorship and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2214.6,"endTime":2218.14,"body":"advice and guidance, I think"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2218.14,"endTime":2221.83,"body":"most people in the field, they"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2218.14,"endTime":2221.83,"body":"want the help, they need the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2221.83,"endTime":2224.62,"body":"fresh talent coming in and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2221.83,"endTime":2224.62,"body":"they're generally really willing"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2225.13,"endTime":2228.73,"body":"to connect on a human level and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2225.13,"endTime":2228.73,"body":"sort of describe what it's like"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2228.73,"endTime":2232.15,"body":"and give folks guidance. So you"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2228.73,"endTime":2232.15,"body":"know, get out there, get in the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2232.15,"endTime":2235.33,"body":"mix, take that first job, take"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2232.15,"endTime":2235.33,"body":"the leap. You'll love it. You'll"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2235.33,"endTime":2238.72,"body":"be able to learn as you go and"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2235.33,"endTime":2238.72,"body":"figure out you know which of the"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2238.75,"endTime":2241.51,"body":"many, many corners of"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2238.75,"endTime":2241.51,"body":"cybersecurity you want to kind"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2241.51,"endTime":2244.09,"body":"of head into first. There's a"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2241.51,"endTime":2244.09,"body":"lot to do out there and we're"},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2244.09,"endTime":2245.14,"body":"waiting for you. So come on."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2245.32,"endTime":2247.87,"body":"So come on, he"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2245.32,"endTime":2247.87,"body":"says. I think that's an"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2247.87,"endTime":2252.52,"body":"excellent note to leave on. Feel"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2247.87,"endTime":2252.52,"body":"free to reach out to William and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2252.73,"endTime":2255.79,"body":"thank you for tuning in to the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2252.73,"endTime":2255.79,"body":"IT Matters podcast. We'll catch"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2255.79,"endTime":2256.48,"body":"you next time."},{"speaker":"William MacMillan","startTime":2257.38,"endTime":2257.77,"body":"Thanks."},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2260.23,"endTime":2262.99,"body":"Thanks for listening."},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2260.23,"endTime":2262.99,"body":"The IT Matters podcast is"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2262.99,"endTime":2265.9,"body":"produced by Opkalla, an IT"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2262.99,"endTime":2265.9,"body":"advisory firm that helps"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2265.9,"endTime":2269.71,"body":"businesses navigate the vast and"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2265.9,"endTime":2269.71,"body":"complex IT marketplace. Learn"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2269.71,"endTime":2272.47,"body":"more about Opkalla at"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2269.71,"endTime":2272.47,"body":"opkalla.com."}]}