Rob Duthie: Instead of running away from challenges every day, I actually
run towards them because within that challenge is actually very, very likely
I'm going to find a lot of engagement and happiness and fulfillment.
if you feeling that the season is finished, then get up and move.
Don't stay in that and stagnate because there's so much opportunity out there
In terms of language, relentless change, continuous change, is
something that you become used to when you're working in this industry.
Arguably, if you step out of the industry, it's the very thing you end up missing
When you start to break it down, you begin to realize How did I ever
get anything done without really planning the day ahead of me?
No wonder you get home and you're tired
Welcome to the I gaming leader the podcast where we uncover the human side of some
of the most well-respected leaders.
In the industry.
I'm your host, Leo Jenkins.
And today I'm joined by Rob Duthie.
A true industry veteran.
been in the industry For over 20 years, starting out at Victor
Chandler, nowadays BV group.
Working out Stan James nowadays, kindred and ending up as the
managing director at Entain.
He will share the lessons that he's learned throughout that 20 year career,
the challenges that he's faced, and also leadership lessons that will help
you and I uncover what is required to sustain high performance in this
high pressure, fast paced industry.
So with that said, let's dive in.
Leo: Hey Rob, welcome to the iGaming Leader podcast.
Really great to have you here.
I wanted to start with kind of kicking off.
You've been in the industry for 20 years, I believe, when I looked at your LinkedIn.
Very long term and passionate person in the industry.
You know, starting back in 2003, I'm curious to hear what initially
drew you into the industry.
And, and how's your perspective perhaps changed as you, as you've gone
through those two decades in gaming?
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
Look, it's been a fascinating journey for me.
I had no intention of moving into gaming at all.
In fact, moving down to southern Spain was a desire, to get away from UK weather.
It was just an opportunity where I was very fortunate to go and take on
a maternity cover role with, Victor Chandler, knew nothing about the
industry at all and ended up looking after payrolls for the UK and Gibraltar.
So.
You know, it's, there was no intention of joining the industry, but, 20 years
has gone by and it's been a fascinating journey from, you know, back in 2000s,
early 2000s, where everything was on the telephone and it was all sports betting.
We had a single person in the corner looking at something called an
internet casino or casino online.
Now there isn't any telephony or very little of it.
And everything is pretty much digital for us.
So what an exciting journey it has been over the last 20 years.
Lots of variety.
Leo: Yeah, funny.
I was thinking about it yesterday as well, how you used to have the mobile
department, it just doesn't exist anymore.
And on that same thoughts, Rob, you, you must have seen so many
consolidations, not just, you know, within business that you're in now,
but consolidations in general, right?
How teams merge and expand and change over time, what are some of the, some
of the bigger, most impactful changes that you've witnessed or been part of?
Rob Duthie: Look, I think the journey for me has been fascinating
because I've been very fortunate to move between different operators,
which gives you quite a different perspective on how these businesses run.
The tenure that I've had has worked for operators.
I've worked in payment specific areas.
Understanding the whole infrastructure around how we deal with payments from the
acquirer point of view and the routing point of view for different industries,
whether it's Forex or binary or gaming.
So what I find fascinating about this industry is that.
There is so much variety sitting within this business.
In fact, when we talk about progression, individual progression,
they typically think about this industry as just taking a bet.
But actually, if you dig into it, it's about marketing.
It's about legal.
It's about compliance.
It's about acquisition.
There's so much variety within the industry.
I've been very fortunate to be a part of a lot of that, which
has helped me grow as a person.
over the last 20 years.
So, you know, that coupled with the fact that there is such a
fast paced moving environment.
In terms of language, relentless change, continuous change, is
something that you become used to when you're working in this industry.
Arguably, if you step out of the industry, it's the very thing you end up missing.
It's just the pace at which you move.
there's very few other industries that match that.
that can be, quite a motivational piece, quite an energizing
piece of the work that I do.
Leo: I love that.
It's such a fast paced industry and sometimes that brings big challenges with
it as well, where we want to look at the long term, but we have to look at the
short term to deliver results, what are some of the biggest challenges that you've
personally faced in your professional career when it comes to this, this real
fast pace that this industry is all about?
Rob Duthie: some of the points for me is that you have to embrace the change.
you've got to be in a position where if you feel you want to fit into a box
and that's what you want to do for the rest of your days, then you're going
to struggle because you will come up against having to reinvent what it is
that you do because in a year or two years time or five years time, it's very
likely That it will not be the same.
The operation won't be the same.
The types of positions and jobs that we have won't be the same.
in terms of my own journey, there's some key learnings around, finding happiness
and engagement in the challenge, in the change of everything that we do every day.
by embracing that, I actually have lots of reasons to get up in the morning.
to come to work because there is so much variety and the minute you
stick your hand up and say, yes, you start learning and you start growing.
and I don't think I'll ever stop, learning or growing in this career
because it's always changing for me.
Leo: yeah, it's true.
And I think that's true for most people.
If you, think back to, I mean, you've been at Victor Chanda,
been at Hills, now at Entain.
What were some of the most pivotal moments when it comes to maybe your,
how you approach leadership in general, how you manage your teams, how you
speak to your people, what have been some of The biggest moments for you
that really changed the way you see leadership or how you lead your teams
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
So because we're in this continuous change, at the root of
everything we do are the people.
that's quite a key point because all of us, get carried away by the target,
by what do we have to do around the number and how much we have to deliver.
But there's a very real lesson in understanding the difference
between how we perform.
So how we turn up every day and what we do versus the targets that we are
set and we have to deliver against.
we've got to ask those questions about fine, we hit target.
Okay.
We did very well in terms of the number, but how did we perform and
turn up every day to hit that target?
And we've got to make a decision as individuals to say yes, in terms
of our behavior, in terms of how we look after individuals and teams
and people, because we all want to have that opportunity to develop.
we all want to have the opportunity to grow and to learn.
but the key is how do we perform every day as people?
That means that we actually end up hitting the target.
there might be occasions when you don't hit the target, okay, but
you're comfortable that in terms of behavior and how we turned up
and what we did was acceptable.
Leo: yeah,
Rob Duthie: All right, versus hitting the target at any cost and not looking
after individuals all the way that we run the business, especially
when you're dealing with vulnerable customers, You know, people that are
struggling in the industry, we have to take accountability for that.
So, you know, what I love about, the last two 10 years that I've had at Hills
and in Tain is that at William Hill 2016, that's really when we had the
start of regulation and started taking it seriously in terms of affordability.
knowing your customer source of funds and source of wealth.
that's when we started to take it seriously.
the one consistent area for all operators, especially in the UK
market, is that impacts value.
customer value has been hit across every operator in the UK because of
regulation and how we run our business.
And so at Hills, four years that I had at William Hill, was all about the start of.
that piece.
where I'm super fortunate to be right now is that we are at Intane.
I came and joined Intane at 2020.
Again, that was the start of that journey for Intane.
you would see that reflected in the share price and the way the business is moving
around, consolidating, restructuring to where we are now coming out the
other side at a very exciting time.
Thank you.
in fact, we talk internally that these will be the most exciting times that we
will see in the next 24 months, just in terms of how we grow as a business and
how we take share of wallet in the UK.
Leo: I love how you've turned the business around Just that
recent financial update is insane.
I've, I was fortunate enough to see some of that, a little bit closer
by, working together with you guys.
how has that affected the team, Rob?
after such a tough time turning that around into a quarter where, you perform
the way that you've just done specifically in the UK, but internationally as well.
How's that affected everybody?
Rob Duthie: you know, since 2020, we've had continuous decrease
in value and player value.
And the challenge on individuals is that when you try and hit a target
that is very difficult to hit, that starts eroding away in terms of
your engagement and your motivation.
You'll laugh at this, but the challenge we have today is not around the success.
So we are performing.
Well, and we will continue to perform well, but there is a lot of fatigue.
a lot of change fatigue, that everybody is carrying.
how we get people to jump over that divide, to say, look, yes, we're doing
well as a business, but actually now we need to invest heavily in our people
that are, you know, that are tired, yea they're tired of having to go
through the restructures and the changes over the last couple of years, along
with the challenges of performance.
it's how you change that mindset.
and that's something we're really focusing on now.
Is that we need to have fun, yeah?
People need to have fun.
They come to work to have fun, and we get paid, and that's fantastic.
but we really need to enjoy the journey.
So, we are focusing on Getting back to the basics, yeah?
How do you deal with those brilliant basics in terms of development and
progression and succession planning?
because people want to move on.
that's an exciting place for us to be, because the focus now is on the people.
the focus is on the performance piece, because we know that the
targets are realistic, and we know, we're going to achieve the
results that we need to achieve.
Leo: Yeah, I love it.
I love how it's turned around.
It's really amazing.
I can see that makes a lot of sense as well.
When you've gone through so many changes, that fatigue starts trickling in.
how do you keep people engaged?
what's your approach to making sure that your team feels engaged with
business, with your, your strategic direction that you're setting with, still
delivering , and making sure that they come to work and have fun, like you said.
Rob Duthie: So for us, it's understanding very clearly what those
objectives are for us as a business.
We call them the big rocks.
what are the big rocks that we want to deliver against in 2025?
the story needs to be super simple.
the last four years have been spent making things very complex.
in the complexity, people lose sight.
of where it is we're going and what it is we're trying to achieve.
stripping that back to a very simple story that has very, very clear objectives.
And then more importantly, what I, what I really love is how we as
individuals take the skills that we have.
Okay.
So instead of us going to people and saying, here's the objective
and I need you to do this.
We talk to people about, what is your skill set and how do you
tie into being accountable and responsible within the objective.
And that encourages cross team work.
people are now doing what they're really passionate about doing, which is why we
want to come to work, as opposed to being told, you need to be doing X, Y, and Z.
So the way that we work with our guys is we talk about the big rocks the big
things we want to deliver for next year.
if you go a little deeper on that and peel it back, what are the deliverables we need
to achieve within our verticals, within our pillars to achieve those objectives?
And then drill it down again into the individual, what
are the skill sets you have?
And how do those tie in?
it could be across multiple functions or pillars.
let's focus on what you're good at as opposed to all the weak areas.
that then gets people engaged because they have a clear sense of where they're going.
Okay.
And they have a very clear idea of what got to do to get there.
that's when the magic starts happening.
and people feel like, they want to be here.
Because they're adding value.
Yeah, that's a very exciting place to be.
Leo: Yeah.
Love that, Rob.
I'd like to ask about your personal experience with people you've looked
up to, leaders you've looked up to.
I've also worked for Victor, And I understand, it's very different
than I'd imagine your current, situation at work where it's,
, it's obviously a larger organization.
What are some of the people that you've really looked up to, leaders that
you've looked up to throughout that 20 year career of yours that, you know,
the skills, the behaviors, the habits that you feel, were really kind of
transformational for you when you looked at them and thought those are things I
want as I'm progressing through my career?
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
So, so key points for me, in terms of leadership is, is you don't
always have to have the answer.
So when people are coming to, to talk to you about their journey, it's not
about saying this is what you need to do.
What I really respect with leaders is having the insight to, help you
understand what the solution is and the ability to say something
very simple, that gets you thinking about a problem in a different way.
I've been fortunate to run across a couple of guys like that, where I might
be overthinking something, and they would just pull me back in line to say, well,
just if we think about it differently.
What is the outcome going to be for you?
and exploring that.
it's a little bit like getting into coaching.
we know that you turn up to a coaching session expecting, the person on the
other side to have all the answers.
And actually that's not their job.
Their job is to sit with you and help you understand what
is the right answer for you.
And so it's the questioning techniques.
and allowing you to explore those areas that, you wouldn't
necessarily do on your own.
that for me is quite key.
in terms of leadership as well, it's, you know, the most engaging leaders
that I've worked with are people that bring everybody along the journey.
that's quite a skill because, Storytelling, is really how
it works within our business.
Being able to tell a story that people believe, that could be through
change as well, because, people have to understand that the reason why we
are making the change is good for the business and that it has, there's some
deep thought that's gone into it and it is going to benefit the business.
When people realize that, regardless of the outcome,
you understand the reason why.
And as long as it's meaningful and it makes sense, then people engage with it.
, and so you go through a lot of transformation, we just really
want to cut costs at any cost.
And there's blood on the floor.
there's a lot of casualties.
And people are confused.
They don't understand why we've gone through this change
and they take it personally.
Whereas when you've thought it through and you've come with a very clear
business plan, people can tuck into that.
even if it's not good news for them.
there's just a couple of examples.
I always love to think about, I mean, Ressie, from the Springboks,
who's the son of the new coach.
Um, I've, I've spent, yeah, I've spent quite a bit of time watching how he's
managed to take a team that wants to win.
But actually there's a connection within each one of those players.
means that they have to win.
it's not about, we're just turning up, it's not about, we're just, we're going
to play another game, but , it's the ability that Rassy has on his players.
to actually connect, the winning piece with the motivation that they have.
and that's a very exciting place to be because, that's where the
magic happens and that's when you can achieve many things.
Leo: I really love that.
And I always loved the example of connecting sports with business
because that high input, high performance environment that we see
in sports is really something that we want to recreate in business, but
it's often very difficult, right?
Because there's not a South African shirt that you're playing for or
it's a brand that you're playing for.
And so it's obviously different.
But I wanted to tie back to something you said earlier about giving people
space and asking the right questions and creating that sense of, all
right, let me, let me think about this problem differently, right?
One of the things that I see a lot with people that are perhaps a little bit
newer into leadership roles is that they feel they have to have all the answers
and they have to be telling rather than asking, it's a typical, issue
that many people struggle with because they feel if they tell them and they
don't ask, it's an easier way to get to the result that they want.
And you must've seen that a lot around you, right?
Over the years these kinds of challenges, but newer leaders stepping up, how can
you help people feel more confident with actually asking questions instead
of telling, so being a macro manager rather than a micro manager, if you will.
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
So, my view in terms of, values is that humility is a super important value.
a servant leader and somebody that is humble is very rare, very
powerful when managing teams.
I do believe it flows down when you're leading teams.
And you come with an agenda, which is, I'm not going to tell you everything,
but I encourage you to challenge.
in a safe place where you know that, we're going to listen to you.
Cause everybody has value and adds value.
Then that does create a different environment.
when I think about my guys, if I step out of line, I give them
permission to call me out on this.
it's quite a powerful place to be because, as a team, I know we are very successful.
it's the fact that they are super inquisitive that means
that we can actually leapfrog and make a lot of progress.
So I encourage people to ask questions.
Meaningful questions.
They need to be thought through questions because you genuinely want
to get a result or you genuinely don't understand something.
my commitment is I want to make sure that you fully understand
what it is we're trying to deliver.
You've got to work as a team.
a lot of young people come through and they get progression
very, very early in the career.
And that comes with the risk.
Yeah.
Because, they haven't quite, built on how they manage those conversations.
They're not quite at the place where they know how to ask the questions.
in a structured way, in fact, I'll give you a really nice example here is that
when I joined both hills and attain, compliance always said Rob, there's no
way that because you guys are commercial.
There's no way that you guys can get involved in compliance at all.
It's that you can't even attend the meetings.
And it took three years at Hills and a couple of years at Mtain where we
could all get around the table because we all understood that we had a
single goal and I take it as seriously as anybody else in the business.
So building that really strong relationship that says.
I'm not going to push on something that is going to jar with you.
We can all talk about the challenges that we're experiencing.
and as a collective, we are so powerful.
one of our guys had always said to me before is that if Intane, only
knew what Intane knows, we have so much knowledge in the business,
But not many people share it.
it's quite a powerful piece because when you bring all that experience together,
you're very powerful, in the market.
Leo: asking the right questions is key because people are sat in
their silos, not intentionally but are sat in their silos thinking.
and struggling perhaps with, with communicating
the exact things that other people need to know.
So how, like in a large organization moving from, you know, Victor Chandler,
Stan James, even, I'd imagine it was quite
intimate as well to, to a far larger organization, which is now Vogue Hills,
and, and what are the big differences you feel between being in a small organization
and being in a large organization, and managing those complexities?
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
So there's a number of points that Entain , has a lot of politics
involved in this business.
So you spend a lot of time managing up.
that's far different to a private entity like Chandler's was back in the day
or Stan's back in the day, where you could just make a decision and move on,
Now you can't just make a decision because you've got to go through committees and
get approval which means that storytelling is very important, that it's clear, and
simple and that people understand it.
I was away a couple of weeks back, on a high performance, leadership, meeting with
some of our guys and, two days in, I went to the guy that was leading the session
and, said to him, listen, Keith, in terms of how I show up in the meeting, don't be
put off if you see me there in the corner, quiet and not necessarily contributing.
So you've got to understand that I'm a deep thinker.
which means that, when we're discussing problems or how we fix those problems,
what's going on in the back of my mind is, picking up on all the different touch
points that that's going to impact to make sure that it does actually work.
And he turned around and he said to me, Rob, you've been operating
in stealth mode your life.
And what was amazing about that statement is, yes, it was true.
Okay.
Is that because I'm an introverted thinker, because I very happy to go away
and let it consume me for the next week.
I don't necessarily share that information with other people.
that piece of work around stealth was quite an eye opener for me because
you've got to balance that out.
You can go away and work in stealth mode, which is absolutely fine.
But then you have to come back and be transparent and share
the ideas and share the plan.
when I sit and talk with our guys, I might have 19 or 20 projects working
in the background and none of them would necessarily know about that.
because I'm sneaking back into stealth mode.
So, very much in terms of my leadership style, working in those different
environments, especially in an operation like ENTAIN, where there's a lot of
politics involved, I have to over index on the transparency piece, and I have to
really talk about that storytelling piece.
which is the unifying story.
Yeah.
So, hey, this is what we're doing guys.
Here's the detail of it and keep doing that because if you remember
working in a super fast paced business, what's, you know, we're doing something
this week and in two weeks time, it might be totally different again.
Leo: Yep.
Rob Duthie: you have to over index on the communication piece and make sure
everybody's coming along the story.
Leo: One of the things I really loved about what you just said there,
Rob, about being a deep thinker is that we are not all the same.
very often, I think, as you know, stepping into a new role, we think we need to fit
in some sort of managerial leadership box.
And
we all need to operate.
In the same way or think in the same way, and that's simply not true.
one of the things I love about you, Rob, is that you communicate that quite well.
You communicate how you might actually sit in that corner and be
quiet for a minute because you're thinking through something, how?
has that changed over time?
You might have, is that an area that you've struggled with historically?
Is that something that you've picked up and made your strength over time?
how's that specific skill set of yours, that being a deep
thinker evolved over time?
Rob Duthie: of it now than I've ever been.
and just to build on that, and I have shared this with you before, but I
have fascinated over just a single statement around happiness, fulfillment,
engagement being found in the struggle of everything we do every day.
And you can apply that to your personal relationships.
You can apply that to your work environment.
Instead of running away from challenges every day, I actually run towards
them because within that challenge is actually very, very likely I'm
going to find a lot of engagement and happiness and fulfillment.
so because I'm more conscious of it, I'm more inclined to throw myself
into super challenging scenarios.
My boys who are older now, when the rains come down, you know,
we've had rain in the last week.
The first thing that I was saying is, dad, did you go out in the Jeep?
Did you go and find some people that are stuck in the mud?
And it's funny cause we, we look back and that's what we used to do.
when the rain came down, we'd get some rope in the back and, go and find
the challenges that are out there.
That was just a subconscious thing.
it's always been there, in terms of, running into challenges, a
lot of deep thought around those challenges and how we solve for them.
does come with a risk, because what I find is that will consume you,
but does consume me every day, all day, probably seven days a week.
So you have to be super conscious that, well, I do need to switch off.
do need to stop thinking about these things and focus on family
and focus in other areas of my life in terms of well being.
but it is a superpower.
So we all have our own superpowers.
and it's important to understand that within the team environment,
you don't want to have everybody that's a deep thinker.
Leo: No, not exactly.
Rob Duthie: that's not necessarily helpful.
but I understand my place within the team.
Leo: yeah,
Rob Duthie: And that's quite key because that allows me to relax.
That allows us as a team to perform very well because we've
thought it through in detail.
the older I get, the more comfortable I am with who I am.
I don't feel I have to necessarily go and prove anything.
And if I don't feel like saying anything, I won't say anything.
unless it's meaningful and it's going to add value then I'll jump in and
we'll start talking about it up to that point, I'm very comfortable
to keep quiet And just listen
Leo: key thing that you're talking about, right?
Being yourself and not doing things that you think you should or
being a person that you think you should be, but actually just being
yourself and communicating that out.
One thing that you've just said there, Rob, is, for a deep thinker
like you, one of the big important things is switching off, right?
Because you know, you're going to have running thoughts continuously.
what is something that you do to help you switch off?
Rob Duthie: it needs to be a total distraction for myself that tends to
be around exercise Getting up riding a bicycle But something I'm conscious of
is that I'm awake at five o'clock in the morning for many years I've spent that
time, lying in bed trying to go back to sleep instead of actually embracing
it and getting up and thinking, maybe my brain is trying to tell me something
because my best times of the day are actually first thing in the morning.
getting up at six where you've got really good quality quiet time.
no distractions, no noise.
really allows me to think about what it is I'm doing during the day.
Plan for the day.
So I'm not spending my whole day in that deep thinking state.
I actually assign time in the day to do that.
Do it first thing in the morning, when there's nobody around.
read as much as I can.
as part of my distraction and then, plan the day ahead of me.
So when I come into the office and the meeting is from nine o'clock through
to five o'clock meeting after meeting, I don't have to then rush home and
carry on working because I've already prepped and planned early in the day.
And that helps me get control of this crazy animal that we work in.
and that allows me to spend time and be in the moment with the family.
when I'm sitting at home and I'm talking to my wife or my boys, I'm actually there.
I'm not deep in thought thinking about something else.
you've got to be ruthless about these things.
You really have to assign time, very clearly assigned time to say at this time
of the day, I'm going to be doing this.
And when I'm finished work, I'm going to dedicate my time.
I'm going to be in the moment and I'm going to, be there
for that session of the day.
and actually what's fascinating is when you break that down, you really
don't have a lot of time left.
So when you break it down and say, well, I'm going to, do my
emails between six and seven.
And I'm going to have my deep thought between seven and eight.
And then I'm going to have my breakfast and whatever until
nine, I'll be in the office.
And then you've got all your meetings, you know what I mean?
When you start to break it down, you begin to realize How did I ever
get anything done without really planning the day ahead of me?
No wonder you get home and you're tired because you're trying
to log on and read content.
Bear in mind, regulatory changes is a lot of documentation that you've got
to read and try and keep in your mind.
So I'm doing all of that stuff at the wrong time of the day.
Leo: Yep.
Rob Duthie: I need to do it at the right time of the day and everything
seems to flow nice and clearly.
I Just a quick word of encouragement that if you're also struggling to switch off.
Or find better balance in life then that's really normal.
Many of the I gaming leaders that I've spoken with really
struggle with that as well.
It's very typical for being in a high pressure, fast paced industry.
And it's difficult to kind of break out of that.
Now if that's something that you want some support with, we've actually created the
I gaming leader mastermind, where we help people live, lead and perform at their
best using science proven methods to help them achieve sustainable peak performance.
If that's something that you want to join, please head over to I gaming leader.com.
And apply.
Let's get back into the interview.
Leo: One of the expressions I love, maybe this is one that you're going to think
about for a long time as well, is that give your most important work the best
of you instead of what's left of you.
And I think
most people actually do it the other way around, right?
They do their most important work after all the back to
backs, whenever they have time.
one of the key things is to take charge of your time and calendar.
And align that with how your brain works, you're up early because that's how your
brain works and you feel energetic so align your most important work with that.
I think it's key.
Rob Duthie: Finding the balance is very important.
Leo: Last two questions for you, Rob.
First, what are the skills or behaviours that you for in leaders that you
try to employ within your teams?
What are some of the things that you find really important the team that you manage?
Rob Duthie: there's a statement that says, love the one you're with.
It doesn't matter what it looks like.
It doesn't matter what the conditions are.
and that's very important because the people that I employ and the
teams that I work with, it's not going to be plane sailing every day.
it's going to be challenging months, maybe even challenging years.
And so how those individuals turn up and behave is super important to me.
In fact, the experience counts for a lot, but the behavior counts for more.
Leo: Yep.
Rob Duthie: Okay.
So when you wake up in the morning, you have to put on that game face.
Even if you don't want to put it on, you have to because as leaders,
people are looking up to you.
there's a funny saying that the children of the people that
you manage know you by name.
So, when the people you manage go home, they talk about you.
talk about you as a leader.
They know you by your first name so it's very important that, I
mean, there's a couple of values that I really drive forward.
I would rather somebody, be humble and have honesty and integrity.
I can work with that.
You
People that are engaged and genuinely want to be here, We can teach you
about how to run this business and we can teach you the skill sets
that you need to run the business, but I can't train in the behaviors.
So So those for me are super, super important.
we practice a lot of listening.
to what people have to say.
I don't have all the answers.
I don't want to have all the answers either.
Because as a team, we need to contribute and get the solution over the line.
really good listening, a lot of humility, and we are here
to serve at the end of the day,
Leo: Yep.
Rob Duthie: it or not.
Leo: Yep.
Love it.
Yeah, it's true.
I love it.
and especially, you know, be the manager that you wish you had, right?
it's such an important piece of advice, I think, because managers have
more impact on your happiness than
most other people in your lives.
So, that is such a crucial piece.
Really love that.
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
Look, we are super fortunate that We can lead the business.
The problem with a lot of people is they want to be told what to do.
I mean, if you think about it as your business, how would I run my own business?
what decisions would I make?
when there's a lot of fat in the business in terms of the payroll and you see that,
the company has taken a decision around restructuring, you apply to yourself,
what would I do in that situation?
that means we take ownership and responsibility for how we do things.
unless you turn up to work like that, the challenges you're going to face
is that you won't be around very long because you have to be adaptable.
You've got to understand that the business structure is going to change
in the way the business is run.
If you look at regulation, for instance, I always say regs come, it's
going to come to everybody's door.
It doesn't matter what, Markets you're in, whether you're Germany,
Austria, Spain, it doesn't matter.
Regulation will come, whether it's marketing affordability
or player protection, it's going to come to your door.
So you have to be forward thinking, open to saying, well, hang on, maybe
I need to explore some of the areas that are not within regs today.
It's just a mindset.
If you think about the tobacco industry, they went through
exactly the same challenges as we.
pretty much having gaming.
So you've got marketing prohibitions and underage considerations to factor in.
we think outside of the box, what if there was a total prohibition
on gambling for 18 to 25s what would we do in that environment?
It's just how you think about these challenges that is super important.
Leo: And then my final question, Rob, for listeners that, might want to have
as an impactful career as, as you've had over the, over the 20 years.
What's one piece of advice that you would offer maybe your younger
self just starting out in gaming?
Rob Duthie: mean, I have thought about this quite often.
And I think that The biggest challenge is the pace, that I've
moved at over the last 20 years.
It hasn't been quick enough.
And what I mean by that is like when I was a child at Victor's, I
was there for seven, eight years.
in hindsight, I should have moved quicker.
I should have taken opportunity quicker because only moving from Chandra's
to Stan's did I realize There's something different out here for me,
Victor Chandler ran through my blood.
I was super passionate about the brand.
I never, wanted to leave that brand.
But the minute I left, I suddenly realized there's something bigger out there for me.
when I left Stanz, I was with Stanz for about 15, 16 months.
When I left Stanz, I then went and, worked in the startup casino.
the experience as well.
There's something different out here for me.
And then going over to EPG, which is a payment gateway.
there's something new out here for me.
So what I found is that my seasons, were shorter and shorter and if you
think of childhood as eight years and then every other season I've had is
four years or two years, I'm conscious that change does happen and that I
should embrace it and move with it rather than sitting in a season, because
I think we're all guilty of this.
We sit in a season and we just stagnate in that season.
If the season is finished.
So my encouragement to anybody is if you feeling that the season is
finished, then get up and move.
Don't stay in that and stagnate because there's so much opportunity
out there I'd rather be going out, and taking a risk, for something which
is bigger out there that's going to help me develop and grow than sit in
a stagnant position for many years.
so yeah, the pain, I think for me, if I could play it back, I would definitely
move quicker, and be more intent.
Around what it is I wanna do.
one of the ladies that worked here, Julie Dalman, she was running the
UK for a couple of years and Julie always had this, fascinating, way
of visualizing decision making.
And she always said to me, you know, Rob, what are your must have?
What are your five must haves around decision making?
So, you know, your must have means that I need development, or I need a bigger
salary, or I need a certain location, or I need to be close to my family, or
I need to be healthy, or, you know, what are the must haves that you need in order
to either stay in the job that you're doing, or move into something else?
And if your must haves are that four out of the five or five out
of the seven, whatever it is, all crosses, that's the wrong decision.
But if the must haves are all ticked, then you move, so if I'm sitting in a
position and I'm feeling stagnated and I'm not getting developed, just go through
the process of what are my must haves.
And if they're not there, then you know, the season's over and it's time to move.
Leo: Fantastic note to end on.
Thank you very much, Robin, and thank you for being so open and honest and sharing
all of your experience has been fantastic.
Thank you.
Rob Duthie: Brilliant.
Thank you, Leo
Wow.
What a great conversation with Rob it's left me so inspired because we
all know the challenges that Entain has been through over the last few years.
So him opening up about how he's gone through that and what kind of leader
he is, I found really insightful.
It left me with three specific takeaways.
The first one was that it's really about being authentically you, right?
Embracing yourself and who you are and leading in a way that's.
You know, it's true to your values.
It's such an important skill to have as a high performance leader.
The second thing is that it's all about embracing change as well.
Businesses will go up and down and it's inevitable.
So as a high performance leader, your ability to ride with that
change and embrace change is such a key skill in also helping your
teams become high-performance teams.
And the third thing, which I loved the most was his approach to actively
seeking out challenges, because he finds happiness and engagement on
the other side of that challenge.
And that is so true, isn't it?
Every single dream that we have goes to die inside of our comfort zone.
It's outside of our comfort zone where all our dreams happen.
So I really loved his approach there.
So that's it for this week.
If you found this episode helpful, please leave a rating or review.
It helps us so much with other gaming leaders, like you finding this podcast.
And if you've already done that, you're an absolute legend.
Make sure that you send it to somebody else that might need
to hear this podcast as well.
So that's it for this week.
Next week, we're interviewing Dmitry Belianin.
He is the CEO and founder of actually three different companies.
He's serial entrepreneur.
He's been in the industry for 17 years.
Real high performer.
Has got some fantastic insights on what it requires to move from, starting off
early in your career, all the way to his case, running three different businesses.
So I'd love for you to see that episode next week.
I hope to see you there.
And I'll speak to you soon.
Take care.