Imago Gei | Queer Faith. Colorful God.

Kendra Arsenault, Spectrum Magazine and SDA Kinship have come together to bring you the premiere episode of Imago Gei where we share the latest on queer theology, stories, and a minority perspective on faith. Today, we are easing ourselves in the conversation by posing the question: Is It Safe? LGBTQ church members are often faced with the challenging question: do I disclose my queer identity in a hostile environment or do I stay closeted until a later day when/if I feel safe? Safe spaces, safe churches, and safe people are the focus of today's topic as we learn what it means to approach difficult topics with self-energy and learn the effects of hostile church environments on the mental health of queer members.

What is Imago Gei | Queer Faith. Colorful God.?

Imago Gei is a play on the term Imago Dei, which means made in the Image of God. Imago Gay is a gay podcast production affirming that we are all deserving of dignity. Gay church anyone? Spectrum Magazine, SDA Kinship along with Kendra Arsenault M.Div. have come together to bring you the latest on queer theology and a minority perspective on faith.

Imago Gay is the affirmation of our humanity and shared value in the eyes of God. This dignity and affirmation of human value, which is the birthright of every living and breathing human being is one that is often forgotten when affirming the dignity of LGBTQ lives. LGBTQ youth are four times as likely to commit suicide. LGBTQ youth also make up 40% of the homeless youth in America. Unfortunately, much of their suicidality and housing insecurity is caused by bad theology. Whether it’s parents who kick their children out of the home for coming out, or the depression that comes with believing that being queer means there is no future possibility of love, family and happiness and you’ve once dreamed. Bad theology is one that does not treat the other as Imago Dei, made in the image of God. So as a statement both to ourselves and to others, Imago Gei is a podcast that affirms that we are all made in the image of God, even the gays….

Hello, everyone. It's me, Kendra, our snow. And this is a brand new podcast called in Mago. Gaye. Spectrum magazine, SDA kinship, along with myself, have come together to bring you the latest on queer theology. And a minority perspective on faith. Today I have a special guest. She is a spiritual care provider at a local hospital named Roxanne who is going to be joining me on this first episode, as we talk about a very important topic. And that is.

Is it safe?

Okay. So I have gotten two different perspectives on how to start this podcast. And the truth is, I don't know how I absolutely do not know how to start this conversation. I think it has a lot of potential to be explosive.

I am not coming in here as the expert because I'm not, can we recap what the, to

You have one side of the story that's saying, please be careful.

Like we care about you. We love you. This is an important topic and it could get spicy. And then there's another, voice in my ear. Uh, that basically is like, go for it. You know what? They can't do anything to you anymore. You got your M div you're out of the seminary.

You're, you've lost your job already. Like you can't burn wood twice. Right. It's been burnt. And so walk through those fires girl, you're going to be just fine. And I think I'm like, am I? Yeah.

And I think it's valid. I think, I think people have seen what happened, uh, for me to just announce my queerness. And then two days later, later to be fired, I feel like that's traumatic, not just for me, but for people who care about me and have been watching my story.

And for anybody who genuinely cares about the conversation and wants it to have an impact, a positive impact, right? Exactly. And, and I think that there's a lot riding on this people I've heard people say this is can be such a powerful conversation, you know, Take care and Godspeed, and it's way too much pressure for kind of a gig that I'm doing,

I think it's a lot of pressure to like champion this conversation, I will say this. When you hear people kind of talk to you, do you feel that it's coming from a place and excuse me for sounding like a chaplain, but do you feel like it's coming from a place of self energy? You know, I'm thinking of you being really in tune with who you are and your own sense of purpose, your own sense of creativity.

And, or do you think that it's coming from a place of fear, fear being, maybe triggering the voices of your protected.

Not every ear is going to be in their self energy, right? Some ears will be triggered by their fears. Some ears will be triggered by their grief. Listen, this topic is, is difficult for so many reasons. And from a personal perspective, I think there's a lot of grief and trying to kind of.

Fit into a mold achieving that only to learn later on that all those years, or that time that you've spent putting into or fitting into a mold might be in vain. I think there is a lot of grief that has to be dealt with.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I think that I want to talk about self-energy cause you are a chaplain spiritual care provider, and I think it's important for our listeners to understand the ears that are listening. You know, what kind of ears do we have when we're addressing this topic? And before we get into that though, and maybe you can vibe off of this, I thinking about what a traumatic event, being fired was not just for me, but for the communities of people who were watching to say, how is this conversation going to be handled?

. So my question today that I want to talk about is, is it safe? Is it, uh, is this a safe space for us to have this conversation? What is the climate of people who are listening? There was the climate of their hearts.

What is the climate of our church? People have gotten the message that the church is not a safe place to be LGBTQ. I think every listener has to go through that journey.

Am I a safe person to hear this person's story and this perspective, so I think we like to create kind of these black and white statements. When in reality, we all have personal experiences. We all have people that we care about, um, that have been impacted by So something that I wanted to insert during this part of our conversation is. The question, am I safe. To have this conversation. Is the institution or my community really going to allow me to have this conversation without retribution. And I think that's a really important question that we didn't really get into in this conversation. But for the pastors who are listening for church leaders.

For church members really? The answer currently right now is no. And I had done an interview a while back and they wanted to know, you know, how do we begin to create. Safe spaces in the church. And I kinda took a very untraditional route because. You know, I think that there's only so much that you can do as an individual. You can be a listener, you can be.

Somebody who is ready to, um, hear things that you might not always agree with. But I think one thing that I didn't want to ignore is that. It's very limited what the individual can do, what a, what an administrator can do. And it really puts them in a place. Of unsafety, right to openly back up queer students, or to openly protect this conversation and allow it to happen.

Because at the end of the day, If you have a policy. On the institutional level. That allows you to discriminate. At your own discretion, right? Um, then the people who are putting themselves on the line to create a safe space. At the end of the day are also in danger of being targeted. So I think.

That for me. What I was doing with my former podcast is I did believe I was creating safe spaces. And I did believe that I was. Allowing conversations to take place that would not normally. Take place. But I didn't know. At that time. That I was not safe to have those conversations because institutionally.

The laws on the books. We're laws that. Allowed for the type of LGBTQ discrimination that I experienced. Right. And so I think that there's only so much you can do as an individual. And my appeal to those of you who are listening right now is, you know, we can take on certain individual responsibility.

Of the kind of people that we want to be in our spiritual journey. Um, but also I think there does need to be the systematic injustice that is addressed. And that we will address in later episodes. Because, . If there is no recourse for discrimination, if you are not institutionally stave to have this conversation, if you're a membership, if your job, if your community is in jeopardy.

Then. You know, you can't really have a climate of honesty. And so I think there are some brave souls out there. Some brave pastors and churches. Who are willing to stick their neck out on the chopping block, right. And protect that kind of conversation and protect those freedoms and to protect LGBTQ.

Church members. Uh, but they really are to taking a risk if. Church administrators decided to target that individual. Could their employment be at risk? Yes. And so I think that it's really important that I make this little caveat because we can only do so much.

As the individual, but systemically, we have a very long way to go. And we talk about creating safe spaces

when I first came to the seminary, one of my friends from college was getting married and she was getting married to another woman.

And I remember kind of just like testing the water to see what some of my classmates would say. I was like, Hey, look, you know, I have a friend, we haven't seen each other in a long time. There's going to be a lot of friends from college that I haven't seen in a long time. You know, maybe this is a good opportunity to kind of share where I'm at in my journey.

And you know, what do you guys think? Should I go to this wedding? And. What do you think that they said, well, first I have, I have questions. I'm curious.

Okay. So was it your mind, like, was your mindset? I want to be a part of these people's lives because I want to be able to have an influence in them, , or where you, or, I mean, I could be a multiplicity of things, right? Honestly, this was my roommate in college, a very close friend of mine at one point. And she invited me to come to her wedding and I just didn't see a world where I would say no to that.

Yes. So you mean your only motive was to be a friend you didn't want to go there to evangelize? Not even a little bit. I don't mean I don't mean to make light of it because I do think that our lives and the way that we show up in people's spaces, is always an opportunity to be kind to another person to share who you are and what drives you.

But I think relationship should be the motivator, , for any kind of participation, right? Like we are looking not just to convince people if some truth that we hold to. Right. Like I love, , this new show on apple TV. I think it's called. Oh, yeah. And I will talk about it because I just think it's so, so great.

Um, but you know, whenever I'm going out and having conversations with people, I'm there to have a relationship, but I'm not just there to promote what I believe is to be a good show. Right. So I think that, I don't know. I just want to validate that relationship is a good enough excuse to show up in people's lives.

And inevitably that provides opportunities for out of the things. But I think sometimes we switch those two around and we have a motive for, for having relationship rather than relationship itself. Anyways, that's a tangent let's go back to, yeah, it's a good, it's a good perspective because at the time, like you could see the fear on everyone's faces of like, why would you even think of going to this?

And they were like, you know, you can't go that, that you need to make a stance, right? This, this is the time to stand for Jesus to refuse to show up at your friend's wedding and, and deny your support . And I just thought that is incredibly cruel. I am sitting here with a bunch of future pastors and this is kind of where we are at right now.

And I, and so just to kind of like use that as an example, that's also telling me the kind of climate that I. Right. So here we are. I have an example, a real world scenario. I throw it out to test the waters and the response is don't go to Babylon. And that is also giving me a picture of who my community is, which is, oh, these people are definitely not safe, um, to talk about anything that's going on in my life.

And so I think when it comes to asking ourselves, are we safe? Are we giving people the kind of cues where if they did want to talk to you about their own queer identities or they're queer family member, or they're going to a wedding that are you really facilitating a space that is honoring, that?

So I think that there was a time and Hey, becoming a safe person in a safe space is a journey.

I think I have, I have been an unsafe person even around LGBTQ issues because I, myself identify as queer, but way before I came to seminary. So when people would talk about certain issues and that was in my very conservative phase, I think I was very dismissive of a lot of people because I'm an authority.

I know the experience you just say no to drugs. Okay. You just say no and you walk away. And I think that, that, you know, one is a very uncompassionate approach to myself, even I definitely to other people,

That's why I believe it's so important for you to share your perspective because you, we can theorize about somebody who's, , response and how their own traumas get triggered or how the event in itself might be traumatic for many people. But I think what this podcast is doing is removing the theory out of it and elevating that voice.

And so I think that by you talking about how it impacted you, we get to hear the voice of that collective community in some ways.

Can you talk a little, the bit about self-energy for a minute before we go on, because I think it's so important to know, and I probably am not often in that.

I think I know it when I'm there. , but what exactly does it mean to be operating out of your, your self energy? So, , it's actually based on , ifs theory. So internal family systems theory, and the best way to think about like, self-energy they call it the eight CS? I don't remember all of them, but it's like when you're feeling connected, creative, confident, curious, compassionate, calm.

It's like all these places where you're not leading with a protector. And so your protectors, they divide them into. Two sections they're called either your managers, your managers are the internal voices. That kinda help you avoid situations. You don't like. And the firefighters who are those that help you deal with a situation that you didn't like in your managers fail to prevent you from experiencing.

So one example is for like that, that was really used when describing this theory to me was, let's say this person, has body image issues. And at work, she hears that her boss is throwing this pool party at his place. I don't remember the exact story, but basically her whole life she's been avoiding being in a swimsuit.

And this is her exile, right? That, that her body image being, , in a swimsuit in front of others is something she wants to avoid. That's the exile. So the exile is like, it's this part of you that you don't want the rest of the world to see or know, or that it's like the party where the shame is. Right.

Okay. Um, so a correlation would be maybe somebody's sexuality. They don't want that to be found out. That's an exile. That's something that they're hiding. Deeply. And so the manager is figuring out ways in life or operating in life in such a way that you will avoid that ever coming out or facing a situation like that.

So she tries to get out of this, um, pool party situation, but realizes that all the important people and all the important connections are going to be happening there. And she can't miss this opportunity, uh, to connect with her peers and her boss and the opportunity that it will bring. So she ends up going to the pool party and everybody's wearing a swimsuit and the peer pressure just inevitably lends itself to have her being her bathing suit.

And so now that her manager has failed to keep her from a scenario she was trying to avoid, right. To keep the exile safe, her firefighter kicks in and says, I'm going to start drinking, , and feeling disconnected from this reality, by just having a really good time and blacking out almost right, like just a way to cope with reality that you don't want, which is very far removed from this self energy where you're leading with confidence and curiosity and courage, right.

It feels very different energetically and. When I think about how I want to operate in life or how anybody wants to operate in life, fear is good. As it serves to protect you. One of the things that we go through, , in chaplaincy training is to think our protectors, like we owe them a lot for the ways that they've helped us survive, but we also kind of challenge the ways that they also cripple us.

Um, because if we're running away constantly and we're living in shame and we're trying, and we're very busy hiding that there are other ways in which we exclude ourselves from being fully present in the moment. And that's not a way we want to operate, you know? And so for the longest time, I felt like people knew me, but realizing how much of myself I was hiding and how flat I could present because of it.

I understood like, well, I'm not really showing up in my full sense. Right. And people are not getting to know the full Roxanne, in herself energy. Right. Right. And it's so interesting that you say that because as I'm thinking about that, I'm thinking how flat church has become, and a lot of people's experiences, right.

That they've stopped participating in their communities because they feel like the presentation is a flat. Experience but we're not actually bringing up the full self.

Yeah. So that's one of the things that was mind boggling to me. When I would go to churches, I would wonder who is genuinely enjoying the company of the people that they can't be themselves around. Like, I mean, you must all live perfect lives in order to actually be enjoying this space, because I feel this kind of anxiety internally in this desire to fit in.

And then I walk away from church feeling extremely exhausted and performative, like that took a lot of energy to show up and Sabbath is supposed to be a day of rest. And I definitely did not rest. How do I hide it? How do I present my most authentic cell while still hiding all of these parts of myself?

And that's what I think, you know, when it comes to churches and other committees, There is a social contract right there. Some people read the room. Some people like myself do not where it's like that. It's like being in the know 18th century, Europe or whatever. And it's like, these are the dinner party roles, and this is how we expect you to act within society.

And some people thrive on that, right. And some people built an entire Instagram brand on being the perfect Christian family that, you know, their vices are, you know, we eat too much chocolate and we watch, you know, Disney on the weekends.

Right, right, right. And everyone else was sitting there like, or, um, like if that's your vice, then I think I'm in the wrong building right now. Right. Right. Right. And so, you know, what do we do in situations where, we've created a community of faith that has this underlying social contract say, w please do not talk about queerness.

Or if you do , be very much in a palatable form for this community. And I think that whether or not, and this is, what's so interesting, whether or not you are. It sends a message about, perfectionism, I have, I know people and I would never share this information because it isn't pure confidence, but I know people who are Adventist and who are queer.

And even though right now, they are in the journey of fitting into the mold because they want their community. They value their community. There is still this deep distrust because their relationship they know is based on performance. That as long as I am the good boy or the good girl, um, then I will retain my community's love and affection.

But as soon as I break out of this contract, I know that I am not welcome here. Right. And, and that's, what's actually missing.

Is the safety to talk about what's really happening underneath the surface. I mean, when I think about the difference between my community of friends and then my community within the church, I think of that very exact kind of neat like that. I can't fully invite myself into this space

and I think it's so interesting because we just watched a cool documentary, a four-part series, Allen versus Pharaoh. I am never watching and Woody Allen film. Again, I, it is, , on HBO max, which is very expensive, but it's a great, documentary because it really talks about what do you do when the underdog has been the victim of something.

And the perpetrator is kind of this unstoppable figure that is accepted in media and in power. And what do you do? You know, when, when you have not the resources, not the power, not the influence that this other person has to control the narrative to skew, , the credibility of, of people involved.

And it did make me think about the parallels to the true. And parallels to the me too movement and parallels to all of history where a minority voices have been silenced. Right? Me too is like fairly recent, right? This is, I mean, there are, there are women who are afraid to tell their story because they know that one either they will be blamed, they will be disbelieved, or they will cause a rift in their community.

And for example, in college, , I had an incident with a football player who assaulted me and this person was somebody who went on to play in the NFL and spent many years having a wonderful career and I never, like, in my mind, I already knew that to say anything would be just more trouble for myself than I wanted to bring on.

I didn't have the resources. I didn't have the community support at the time. I didn't have the, even the mental resources. I was working two jobs going to school full time in a new city. I didn't, I didn't have the reserves to battle something like this. And you see incidences like this and I think. What kind of community are we creating like a church that is supposed to be a Haven for people to feel safe, to be authentic, to tell their truth.

When if a person does come to the table and say, I'm a member of the LGBTQ, this community has created an environment that is now going to shun, expel embarrass, embarrass, and cut this person off from their community. You are creating an environment where truth can not be told because you're saying, I don't want to hear it.

And if you do, if you do break the social contract, the unspoken written rules, this is what's going to happen to you. Yeah. First of all, I just have to state that the impact on me when you share parts of your story is just sadness. It feels very compounded, you know, like, oh, so you're not just dealing with a gender issue. You're not just dealing with a sexuality issue. It seems like throughout different points of your life. , as is the experience of many women, including myself, you know, it's the, I've gone through something and needed the support of somebody and had nowhere to turn to that I felt safe in.

And so I think that for as much as this conversation highlights the points of disconnection with the church and the missed opportunity, it's also an invitation to say, Hey, let's stop meeting these voices with such a defensiveness that we failed to correct the wrongs and make this an actual safe space, a safe Haven, for people of different backgrounds.

I think Adventism is so. And it has unique aspects to it that make it a really great space for connecting with God and for understanding God.

I love our theology. . Inviting people to share their truth does not mean that you have to agree with it.

It just means that you have to care enough about the person that you value, what they have to say. And people from different backgrounds talk all the time. Yeah. And have great conversation and meaningful friendships without having to land at the same conclusions.

Like I actually see the deficit that happens in religious communities that only allow people in perspectives from their very insular communities. For example, it's like, monocropping so monocropping is when you, basically plant and harvest a single crop and you make your entire field corn or almonds or whatever.

And they're finding that these mono crops are actually more susceptible to disease. Uh, so they have to use more pesticides in order to kill the bugs. And then that gets into the food system. So a more inclusive way of, of farming has been to, okay, how do you diversify, uh, large fields? And that actually protects from disease.

So I think the same is true in, in social. When there is a monocrop of ideas or of personalities or religious beliefs there, I think it becomes sometimes diseased and not the strongest and healthiest to withstand, , dealing with present social issues. Right? You need a diversity of perspectives to be able to move forward in a healthy and holistic way.

When people come to you and I'm sure some with their hopes, right? Like you have to do this podcast. We need your voice. You have to share what happened. Um, you have to approach these theological issues.

, And also from those who are more worried about your wellbeing, say, Hey, the church is not ready to hear what you have to say. I hear like both ends of the spectrum that you've shared. What does that do for you? Like if you were to name an emotion about doing this podcast with all these, you know, perspectives in your ear, what is that like for you?

Okay. And feel free to interrupt me anytime. Um, I think I feel nervous about the project because I think I have an idea. Like, I think both perspectives are valid. I think there's a perspective that says, go get them. And you know, the Lord will be with you. Like he was with David and you will, uh, take down Goliath.

And then there's another perspective that says, you know, do not be a martyr right now and save yourself because these people are not ready to have these types of conversations. And I think both of those perspectives feel very valid to me. And I think there's one part of me that, , Is angry that there is a climate of fear and that the church has facilitated that climate and knowingly facilitated that climate.

I think there is a bit of, there is anger at, an institution that would create a climate of fear I found a lot of, of hostility, you know, in the moment of my grief, lost a project that I'd worked on for three years and people were, you know, caught up in their own kind of religious beliefs about this issue and

that some professor, , wanted to take that as an opportunity to reprimand me and, basically say some things about me, , if I were to not come to the consensus view that I would be essentially denouncing my Adventism and a lot of arrogant things were said and how threatening, oh, it was very threatening.

And I had to really kind of get some backup support. I've got to go to certain administration, not in the seminary. I had to go to administration outside of the seminary to make sure that am I going to be able to finish my last semester with some dignity, or am I going to be like a, a topic of debate?

Are people going to trivialize my life or whatever in a way that is going to forward their theological agendas? It sounds overwhelming. Um, that sounds like there's a struggle between perhaps a sense of injustice and also a very valid desire for safety. Oh yeah. I mean, I ended up moving out of Berrien Springs because of the.

I mean, I left my home because it became a point where I thought, you know, are my, are my neighbors, people that I see all the time I go jogging around the campus, you know, like it became an environment where I felt triggered, you know, I felt like, am I even really welcome here? Or am I just, you know, this person that people feel the need to, domesticate, right?

And I got a lot of messages of saying like, Hey, I'm sorry, this is happening to you. But like, as long as your side B, you're cool. And I was like, well, that's not cool. You know? Like, why is there a conditionality on your advocacy or your defensive me?

I am not a different person. I'm still the kind genuine person you've always met. So the theologically curious, wanting to champion, you know, the underdog, like I'm still that person. So nothing has changed. Uh, other than now, you know, a different part of me that you didn't know previously.

I still have a high view of scripture. I'm still the person who's held these conversations. Um, and, and now, you know something about me and I don't feel as liked as respected, as loved as I once did. And the exercise of having to figure out if you see me for who I am or not is too much it's too much. I mean, I would be lying if I said that it wasn't a very depressing part of my life because I think a part of me wants to gloss over how difficult the last four months have been.

You know? Um, I think I will look back on this in a year or two years or three years and with lots of therapy and be like, wow, that was very traumatic, , to kind of lose a community overnight. Even, even though I got tons of like support, uh, direct messages, people who shared similar stories, they were my virtual community that came to the rescue you know, I, I felt hurt. No, no doubt. No doubt. , I think

your hurt feeling hurt is a big part of understanding the impact of

the theology on every LGBTQ person who identifies, , as a seventh day Adventist and has this sexual identity that is not accepted or welcomed.

I hope, you know, hope our listeners are just a bunch of women, you know, like I think they would get it right. Like there is a sense of, of survival

like where I have had to recreate communities because the situation that I was in was so toxic and damaging that for my own mental health and my own wellbeing, you know, I had to rebuild again. And so when I think about, , uprooting and having to leave my home and leaving the physical location of the seminary to move somewhere, I feel a little more anonymous, not judged free.

Um, I think, again, that's another pattern of my, my own kind of trauma response of feeling like I have seen this toxicity before and to protect myself, I will move forward. And I will, you know, rebuild. I think this podcast

it's for other survivors who are out there. You know, who are having to rebuild their communities who have had toxic experiences with the church who are on the other side and they want a voice. And they also, that this is a theological voice that is empathetic and understands and is listening, not this experience of judgment, of belittling, of patronizing.

For me to say that your voice matters. How does it land I think I have a lot of unlearning to do as far as like, cause I don't believe that. Right. And I think I spent a lot of time and it'd be an abusive relationship where that was kind of. Told to me over and over again, that you know, that the highest form of spirituality is to make yourself as nothing, right.

Um, to be a conduit for the holy spirit, to not take any glory to yourself. And, and that has a lot of ways that it invalidates your own experiences. It, it invalidates your own individuality and participation participation, and these other parts of your identity that make you different and unique. It says hollow that all out so that this monolithic version of who I believe Jesus to be, can be manifest through you.

And so to know that like, oh, my voice matters. I don't believe it. I don't believe it. , I'm sure that is something that, you know, years of therapy will have to be part of, of solving.

As I'm listening back on this point, I'm thinking. The point of this podcast is because I believe that your voice matters. And I think it's incredibly natural for all of us to feel a little bit like our voice doesn't matter. Anyone who's been through a traumatic experience. Has felt like that. In some form or another.

But I do want to invite courage and validate all of your voices. Because when our stories come together, And we speak up in a collective voice.

Together. We can do great things.

You cannot begin to. Navigate grief or shame or sadness. If you're not willing to touch the grief in your own life, the shame in your own life, the sadness it's like the blind can't lead the blind, and you have to go through that process yourself. And again, anybody who is trying to be a safe place or a person for another person has to be able to be empathetic.

You cannot be empathetic when you're not looking at the deep dark spaces and caves in your own life.

You know, and even like, okay, this is the, the bad thing about being defensive is you don't make it safe for others to share with you. You don't even make it safe for yourself to be honest with yourself. Right. Right. Um, but the good thing about defensiveness showing up is that okay.

It's your biggest alarm bell to tell you, oh, there's something to pay attention to here. There is something you are trying to fight against that. Why, why is there all this resistance around it, right. When people get the most defensive around a subject, I think that's where the biggest vulnerability is.

What's here. You defending exactly really fragile. Um, I think that's a great point because it's like the stereotype people who are the most homophobic are probably fighting something within themselves. That's a stereotype. A statement about anyone's sexuality, but it is,

well, it shouldn't be that threatening. Right, right, right. Exactly. Like when we talk about like football teams and someone's like, I like the 49ers over the Raiders, I go, okay, I'm not that invested. Why are you so invested? There was something, something that's pay attention. Well, you want to move away from it.

I'm actually very curious about it. Yeah, exactly. And I think that I do want to get curious about it. And so if you are defensive, please listen in. But hopefully this is a safe space and that's what I want to facilitate. We will talk about the allergy. We have a wonderful podcast next week. Uh, with Matthew, Korpman talking about just some theological, , insights that he brings up in his book say no to God where he has a chapter on say no to homophobia.

Interesting. And he does some really interesting work there that we're going to be talking about. There'll be more podcasts that are more conversational, uh, some more narrative. And so I just hope it's a fantastic journey, but I guess the question I will continue to pose is, is it safe? Is it safe to come out to you as a person?

Is it safe for someone to come out in your. Why or why not? And so if you personally are listening in and you have an answer that you'd like to share with me personally, you can write me at Kendra snow with an X on Instagram or Facebook. I'll be happy to read some of these responses on here. And so I'm curious to see how you guys are dealing with this.

There is a lot of fear. And so I think for me, I want to combat that fear. I will not live, in that type of environment.

I don't think it's a godly environment. I also have to question, you know, um, the makers of that environment themselves, you know, like if you are creating an unsafe environment, what is that really saying about you and your spirituality? So, yeah, is it safe? Is it safe? Great question. Thank you, Kendra. Thank you. On behalf of the LGBTQ community, I will, I will accept this reward. Yes.

Am I go gay is a podcast where we explore queer questions and a colorful God. In addition to curious conversations, I love to receive questions and letters from you.

Many of you have shared your own journey, navigating queer theology relationships, church participation. So you can send in your personal stories or curious questions to me. At Kendra or snow with an X on Instagram or Facebook. And also be sure to follow our sponsors, spectrum magazine and SDA kinship international. Be sure to sign up for their newsletters

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This episode. Was created and engineered by yours truly. And sponsored. By spectrum magazine and SDA kinship international.