WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:43.416 --> 00:00:46.086 Sam: Welcome to another episode of Unashamed, Unafraid. 00:00:46.616 --> 00:00:48.873 Unashamed of sexual addiction recovery and unafraid of 00:00:48.873 --> 00:00:50.493 coming unto Christ for healing. 00:00:51.483 --> 00:00:52.183 James? 00:00:52.413 --> 00:00:54.373 Do we do anything besides a podcast? 00:00:55.353 --> 00:00:58.693 James: I've been working really hard on stuff that's besides a podcast. 00:00:58.713 --> 00:00:58.923 Nathan Maxwell Story - 2:26:26, 2: Have 00:00:58.923 --> 00:00:59.143 Sam: ya? 00:00:59.223 --> 00:00:59.553 James: Yeah. 00:00:59.553 --> 00:00:59.923 Yeah. 00:01:00.643 --> 00:01:01.683 Like a book. 00:01:01.783 --> 00:01:02.653 Like a guidebook. 00:01:02.703 --> 00:01:05.193 . It's taking a lot of time. 00:01:05.243 --> 00:01:07.743 Sam: I think we're at what, four chapters in now with the editor? 00:01:07.743 --> 00:01:09.093 James: We're just plugging along, man. 00:01:09.093 --> 00:01:09.213 Yeah. 00:01:09.263 --> 00:01:10.353 Just plugging along. 00:01:10.423 --> 00:01:10.903 Sam: Yeah. 00:01:10.943 --> 00:01:13.493 So maybe by the time this actually gets released, we're 00:01:13.493 --> 00:01:15.033 gonna be pretty close to done. 00:01:15.093 --> 00:01:15.403 I hope 00:01:15.533 --> 00:01:15.803 James: so. 00:01:16.767 --> 00:01:20.113 Sam: it's been an adventure . And we think it's going to help a lot of people. 00:01:20.123 --> 00:01:23.706 So if you're interested in starting a group with the unashamed, 00:01:23.707 --> 00:01:27.197 unafraid guidebook send me an email, Sam at unashamed, unafraid. 00:01:27.197 --> 00:01:28.976 com, we'll get you hooked up. 00:01:28.976 --> 00:01:32.576 We want to get as many men, this resource as we can once it's finished. 00:01:32.576 --> 00:01:38.000 Here we are for another story episode with the one and only Nathan Maxwell. 00:01:38.590 --> 00:01:42.340 Before we get your story, I just, I thought it was so sad. 00:01:42.340 --> 00:01:45.500 The story you told us about the previous episode that you've 00:01:45.500 --> 00:01:46.870 recorded a year and a half ago. 00:01:47.110 --> 00:01:49.640 Will you tell us that story before we start? 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:50.830 Nathan: Absolutely. 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:53.320 Hi, I'm Nathan recovering lust addict. 00:01:53.430 --> 00:01:56.730 My wife and I had come on the podcast about a year and a 00:01:56.730 --> 00:01:58.900 half ago, interviewed with. 00:02:00.600 --> 00:02:03.466 Listeners might know that there is kind of a shift of management, 00:02:03.916 --> 00:02:06.536 , And my recording never got published got lost in the move. 00:02:06.906 --> 00:02:09.146 So I'm, I'm back with new perspectives. 00:02:09.416 --> 00:02:11.506 Sam: So what has changed since then? 00:02:12.386 --> 00:02:14.386 Nathan: A lot about my marriage has changed. 00:02:15.356 --> 00:02:19.600 My perspectives on recovery remain pretty solid. 00:02:19.990 --> 00:02:24.100 However, how I apply them in other areas of my life has changed a lot. 00:02:24.710 --> 00:02:29.840 I used to live my whole life really, really loud and proud about my recovery, 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:34.250 which was great however, in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, it talks about 00:02:34.260 --> 00:02:39.350 how New members can just really go to town and get lit on fire and everything 00:02:39.350 --> 00:02:40.640 is about recovery, recovery, recovery. 00:02:41.180 --> 00:02:42.160 And that was definitely me. 00:02:42.160 --> 00:02:45.180 That bled over into all areas of my life, which wasn't always 00:02:45.610 --> 00:02:47.460 super appropriate or necessary. 00:02:47.565 --> 00:02:52.005 , The past couple months, I've been really rocky with my marriage, and I realized 00:02:52.505 --> 00:02:58.815 that I took some recovery attitudes into marriage, specifically if something 00:02:58.815 --> 00:03:01.450 goes wrong, And I feel the effects. 00:03:01.500 --> 00:03:04.140 I'm responsible for it, and I need to do what I can do to address it. 00:03:04.600 --> 00:03:05.730 That's how it works in recovery. 00:03:06.300 --> 00:03:08.720 I need to be recovering regardless of what's happening around me. 00:03:08.730 --> 00:03:12.590 However, in marriage, it is appropriate and necessary to a healthy relationship 00:03:12.950 --> 00:03:16.370 to, yes, hold yourself accountable, but also hold your partner accountable. 00:03:16.910 --> 00:03:18.340 Which I was doing none of. 00:03:18.360 --> 00:03:20.180 I thought that everything was my fault. 00:03:20.755 --> 00:03:24.125 And I was putting the world on my shoulders, not how it's supposed to work. 00:03:24.445 --> 00:03:25.655 Sam: Well, dude, tell us your story. 00:03:25.655 --> 00:03:26.735 Start from the beginning. 00:03:26.865 --> 00:03:27.585 Nathan: Beginning. 00:03:27.855 --> 00:03:32.315 Nathan is in fourth grade. 00:03:33.255 --> 00:03:34.545 Sam: And why do you start in fourth grade? 00:03:34.675 --> 00:03:38.005 Nathan: Because my friend showed me on the school computer lab in elementary 00:03:38.005 --> 00:03:42.365 school how to go on Google images and look up naked women, which I did. 00:03:42.375 --> 00:03:44.015 And I don't remember finding any. 00:03:44.405 --> 00:03:47.775 But it was just very forbidden and intriguing. 00:03:48.025 --> 00:03:50.415 i'm a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. 00:03:51.065 --> 00:03:53.795 this is not talked about it's just kind of glossed over. 00:03:53.795 --> 00:03:54.285 You don't do it. 00:03:54.285 --> 00:03:54.665 It's bad. 00:03:54.685 --> 00:03:54.965 Okay. 00:03:54.965 --> 00:03:55.605 Next topic. 00:03:55.685 --> 00:03:56.205 God loves you. 00:03:56.445 --> 00:03:56.655 Great. 00:03:57.555 --> 00:04:00.755 So I tried to find it that same year. 00:04:01.385 --> 00:04:06.882 A friend gave me a Japanese manga, which is by American standards, soft porn. 00:04:07.632 --> 00:04:08.702 They're just a lot more. 00:04:09.202 --> 00:04:12.192 Sexualized of a literature culture in general. 00:04:12.582 --> 00:04:16.152 So I had that, I hid it because I knew it was bad that if my 00:04:16.152 --> 00:04:18.152 mom found it, she'd be upset. 00:04:18.402 --> 00:04:21.665 When I was about six, my parents divorced, my dad was a high functioning 00:04:21.665 --> 00:04:25.515 sexaholic and alcoholic, but I didn't know that for several more years. 00:04:25.725 --> 00:04:28.945 But that is what broke my parents marriage apart. 00:04:29.445 --> 00:04:30.525 Sam: How did that impact you? 00:04:31.025 --> 00:04:31.495 Nathan: Oh, it didn't. 00:04:31.495 --> 00:04:32.155 Obviously. 00:04:32.465 --> 00:04:34.600 I thought I was like, Oh, That's fine. 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:37.890 I go to dad's every other weekend now and my mom doesn't like video 00:04:37.890 --> 00:04:40.480 games, but I play video games all weekend at my dad's house. 00:04:41.270 --> 00:04:42.000 So that was really cool. 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:43.390 My dad was the fun parent who said yes. 00:04:43.400 --> 00:04:44.990 And my mom was the strict parent who said no. 00:04:45.940 --> 00:04:50.230 I didn't know that I was doing little to no connecting with either parent 00:04:50.470 --> 00:04:54.680 cause I was just either playing video games or resenting my mom's rules. 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.870 Parents got divorced, was introduced to the concept of 00:04:57.870 --> 00:04:59.610 pornography in fourth grade. 00:04:59.925 --> 00:05:04.955 A couple years after my parents were divorced, one of my dad's first children, 00:05:04.955 --> 00:05:06.645 my half brother, took his own life. 00:05:06.815 --> 00:05:09.255 He was 16, I was 11. 00:05:09.875 --> 00:05:13.275 And again, I had, I didn't know what to do with that. 00:05:13.765 --> 00:05:15.425 So I packed that away. 00:05:16.255 --> 00:05:21.525 I really specifically remember meeting, In a room close to the bathroom that 00:05:21.525 --> 00:05:27.035 I had stashed my soft porn book in and my mom and dad were in the same 00:05:27.035 --> 00:05:29.725 room together, which was strange because they were divorced, telling 00:05:29.725 --> 00:05:34.155 me about how my brother had died, bawling, and all I can think about is, 00:05:34.205 --> 00:05:35.975 I sure hope she doesn't find my porn. 00:05:36.325 --> 00:05:39.505 . Which was really traumatizing, obviously. 00:05:40.085 --> 00:05:41.305 Sam: how do you make sense of that? 00:05:42.165 --> 00:05:48.185 Nathan: I think that there was a lot going on that the only way I could cope with 00:05:48.185 --> 00:05:50.805 that or deal with it was with pornography. 00:05:51.705 --> 00:05:54.065 My core issue was I didn't feel like a good person. 00:05:54.065 --> 00:05:55.915 I didn't feel like I was good enough to live. 00:05:55.955 --> 00:05:57.825 I didn't feel like I was loved. 00:05:58.575 --> 00:05:59.985 Parents divorced, played into that. 00:05:59.985 --> 00:06:00.080 Yeah. 00:06:00.810 --> 00:06:07.020 Distant father played into that mother who was unmedicated for a while, diagnosed 00:06:07.020 --> 00:06:13.300 later with a few diagnoses, but she was just doing the best she could and it was 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:18.180 rough I turned to pornography cause it's really easy to find somebody on a screen 00:06:18.250 --> 00:06:23.750 to say you're good enough and you're worthy because sex is sold in America. 00:06:23.770 --> 00:06:25.150 Sex is the highest form of love. 00:06:25.535 --> 00:06:27.315 It's glamorized. 00:06:27.355 --> 00:06:30.535 It's on TV and in books. 00:06:30.915 --> 00:06:34.445 And so if I can get that, then obviously that means I'm a good enough person. 00:06:34.975 --> 00:06:35.885 And I'm worthwhile. 00:06:36.185 --> 00:06:38.465 And of course, , fourth grade Nathan doesn't know any of this. 00:06:38.465 --> 00:06:39.555 He just knows Sure. 00:06:39.565 --> 00:06:42.135 It feels good to look at this, and it feels bad when I get caught. 00:06:42.948 --> 00:06:43.308 Sam: Wow. 00:06:44.890 --> 00:06:49.620 You had this really significant moment where mom and dad are telling me that 00:06:49.620 --> 00:06:54.030 my brother just passed away and the only thing I can think of is, I sure hope that 00:06:54.030 --> 00:06:54.839 Nathan: they're not 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:56.861 Sam: going to find that magazine. 00:06:56.861 --> 00:06:57.265 Right. 00:06:57.265 --> 00:06:57.670 Nathan: Yep. 00:06:57.720 --> 00:06:59.100 Sam: Right, there's a numbness. 00:06:59.310 --> 00:07:05.290 Oh, yeah, preoccupied with the shame That keeps you from grieving so I'm curious how 00:07:05.290 --> 00:07:08.600 that impacted you over the next several years of your life because that's huge 00:07:08.710 --> 00:07:09.060 Nathan: yes. 00:07:09.070 --> 00:07:10.960 Definitely addiction aside. 00:07:11.290 --> 00:07:13.390 21 00:07:13.640 --> 00:07:14.206 2020. 00:07:14.366 --> 00:07:16.926 I had gone to the missionary training center for my church. 00:07:16.926 --> 00:07:18.546 I wanted to serve a full time mission. 00:07:19.096 --> 00:07:23.216 Got sent home because I was sexually active and lied about it. 00:07:23.217 --> 00:07:27.716 But, the reason that I advertised that I got sent home is because 00:07:27.716 --> 00:07:31.226 I had a big fat mental breakdown in the missionary training center 00:07:31.246 --> 00:07:32.676 about my brother passing away. 00:07:32.676 --> 00:07:33.346 And I'm like, what the heck is going on? 00:07:33.347 --> 00:07:34.686 This was 10 years ago. 00:07:34.686 --> 00:07:35.970 I thought I dealt with this. 00:07:36.700 --> 00:07:40.290 The next few months My body just would not function. 00:07:40.620 --> 00:07:44.770 I commuted by bike everywhere, I would just have to pull over and sit on the side 00:07:44.770 --> 00:07:50.640 of the bike path and sob because I had not dealt with the death of my brother. 00:07:50.640 --> 00:07:52.320 I had numbed it and pushed it away. 00:07:52.610 --> 00:07:55.253 So it popped out sideways like a beach ball, submerged 00:07:55.333 --> 00:07:56.383 under waves ten years later. 00:07:56.883 --> 00:07:57.803 James: Trauma does that. 00:07:57.973 --> 00:07:58.223 Nathan: Yeah. 00:07:58.723 --> 00:07:59.713 James: when it's suppressed. 00:08:00.213 --> 00:08:01.963 Nathan: Yeah, and I had no idea I was suppressing it. 00:08:02.003 --> 00:08:06.463 I remember telling therapists, I wasn't super close with my half brother. 00:08:06.463 --> 00:08:08.383 That's probably why I didn't feel very much. 00:08:08.393 --> 00:08:10.643 He was five years older, lived with his mom. 00:08:11.183 --> 00:08:17.403 Now looking back, I'm realizing, Oh yeah, there was a lot of suppression going on. 00:08:17.903 --> 00:08:22.311 Sam: In what ways do you feel like Porn met some of those needs that you weren't 00:08:22.311 --> 00:08:26.461 getting during that, early adolescent time 00:08:26.511 --> 00:08:29.771 Nathan: So four years after being introduced to porn, I'd had some time 00:08:29.801 --> 00:08:32.731 to, Develop it into a compulsivity. 00:08:33.331 --> 00:08:37.411 I was always looking for chances to sneak a glance at the, the raunchy 00:08:37.411 --> 00:08:38.961 magazine in the grocery store. 00:08:39.012 --> 00:08:44.032 Yeah, I didn't really get much more intense than that until I got a, a 00:08:44.082 --> 00:08:46.942 little tablet computer in eighth grade and I was looking at porn every chance 00:08:46.992 --> 00:08:51.318 I would say I did a lot less numbing and a lot more seeking to be lusted after. 00:08:51.318 --> 00:08:53.878 Eighth grade was the first time I had a girlfriend. 00:08:53.968 --> 00:08:56.408 She messaged me over Christmas break and said, I really like you. 00:08:56.448 --> 00:09:00.338 I had no idea who she was, but I was like, Oh, This is my God. 00:09:00.348 --> 00:09:02.688 This is what gives me a reason to be alive. 00:09:02.928 --> 00:09:05.418 Sam: What do you mean you had no idea who she was? 00:09:05.748 --> 00:09:09.518 Nathan: I genuinely, I had never seen her at my middle school. 00:09:09.618 --> 00:09:10.358 She texted me. 00:09:10.358 --> 00:09:12.888 She was like, Oh yeah, we're in the same, I've seen you in the lunchroom. 00:09:12.888 --> 00:09:14.958 I'm like, Oh, uh, I like you too. 00:09:15.808 --> 00:09:16.188 And I. 00:09:16.688 --> 00:09:21.848 Yeah, I didn't know who she was, met back up and held hands and it was a huge deal. 00:09:21.908 --> 00:09:22.558 Sam: As it is. 00:09:22.638 --> 00:09:26.628 Nathan: Yeah, but it's pretty sad, but I solicited explicit pictures 00:09:26.628 --> 00:09:28.128 from her, which she gave me. 00:09:28.628 --> 00:09:31.238 And that was in eighth grade, which is miserably early. 00:09:31.738 --> 00:09:35.608 Any, any time is too early for that, but yeah, that happened in eighth grade. 00:09:36.318 --> 00:09:41.668 I was overcome by shame because I knew for certain that it was, this was wrong. 00:09:42.168 --> 00:09:46.478 And my mom caught me, sent me to my ecclesiastical leaders office. 00:09:46.478 --> 00:09:48.228 I got a slap on the wrist and said, don't do it again. 00:09:48.728 --> 00:09:53.238 And so I never talked to her again after that that's what you do in eighth grade. 00:09:53.298 --> 00:09:54.838 I was so ashamed. 00:09:55.088 --> 00:09:59.148 And that was the first of, I tallied my fourth step inventory, 00:09:59.408 --> 00:10:02.308 about 88 people over the next. 00:10:02.808 --> 00:10:05.798 seven or eight years situation similar to that 00:10:06.548 --> 00:10:08.048 Sam: So that flipped a switch inside of you. 00:10:08.338 --> 00:10:14.838 Nathan: Yes, porn is nice, but having the attentions of a real woman is So much more 00:10:14.838 --> 00:10:17.348 validating and porn was always plan B. 00:10:17.968 --> 00:10:23.448 Oh if I can't Get somebody to sext with me today, then I guess I'll watch 00:10:23.458 --> 00:10:25.948 porn, but it was always like can I? 00:10:26.448 --> 00:10:28.628 Can I find people in my school? 00:10:28.638 --> 00:10:29.568 Can I find them online? 00:10:29.568 --> 00:10:30.768 Can I text them all the time? 00:10:30.848 --> 00:10:34.688 And then, as a teenager, can I meet up with them and how far 00:10:34.688 --> 00:10:36.108 will they let me go physically? 00:10:36.568 --> 00:10:38.948 Always, always seeking to be validated. 00:10:39.148 --> 00:10:42.058 Seeking for somebody to say, yes, you're good enough that I'll give you my body. 00:10:42.308 --> 00:10:42.748 Sam: Right. 00:10:43.398 --> 00:10:46.858 Nathan: Because I felt like I wasn't good enough The sex addiction cycled 00:10:46.858 --> 00:10:52.718 into that it there was just huge Scrupulosity and religious undertones 00:10:52.768 --> 00:10:54.258 of this makes you a bad person. 00:10:54.258 --> 00:10:57.008 This means you're evil Pornography is the worst thing out there. 00:10:57.008 --> 00:11:00.598 Just don't ever do it And so I was , oh clearly I'm a horrible person and then I'd 00:11:00.598 --> 00:11:02.328 need to find somebody to go medicate with. 00:11:02.578 --> 00:11:02.948 Sam: Yeah 00:11:03.438 --> 00:11:04.408 Nathan: vicious cycle 00:11:05.088 --> 00:11:07.528 Sam: People could be afraid to talk about that piece of it because I 00:11:07.548 --> 00:11:11.308 think they don't want to You Bag on religion, but I actually think 00:11:11.308 --> 00:11:13.138 I would love to dig into that. 00:11:13.328 --> 00:11:16.208 And just hear your honest perspective on what you experienced 00:11:16.208 --> 00:11:18.018 and how damaging it was for you. 00:11:18.368 --> 00:11:24.958 Nathan: Yes, I experienced no sex education from public school 00:11:24.968 --> 00:11:27.322 or from my religious friends. 00:11:28.303 --> 00:11:29.503 It was all from pornography. 00:11:29.863 --> 00:11:30.743 This is what you do. 00:11:30.753 --> 00:11:31.673 This is how you do it. 00:11:31.673 --> 00:11:33.263 This is what makes it a good thing. 00:11:33.753 --> 00:11:37.673 And that's like lifeless dolls smacking skin against each 00:11:37.673 --> 00:11:39.903 other, which is not healthy. 00:11:40.103 --> 00:11:44.393 So yeah, what my religious Culture taught me, I want to be very clear, 00:11:44.393 --> 00:11:49.493 this is not doctrinally accurate, but the culture that I grew up in was you 00:11:49.493 --> 00:11:53.943 don't talk about sex, you don't have sex, you don't watch pornography, your 00:11:53.943 --> 00:11:58.343 parents don't tell you about sex and then you go get married and it's a 00:11:58.343 --> 00:12:00.983 commandment now, go, go, go, multiply and replenish the earth, you gotta start 00:12:00.993 --> 00:12:02.633 having kids and raising righteous babies. 00:12:03.573 --> 00:12:10.283 And It was nothing and then everything, which is bewildering to kids who 00:12:10.283 --> 00:12:12.173 are getting married at 20 to 25. 00:12:12.423 --> 00:12:17.303 Sam: how did you navigate the shame of being in those two polarized positions. 00:12:18.406 --> 00:12:19.946 Nathan: somebody had to be wrong. 00:12:20.776 --> 00:12:25.306 It was either the church was wrong, or I was wrong and what I was doing was 00:12:25.306 --> 00:12:28.486 wrong, I ended up believing that I was wrong and what I was doing was wrong. 00:12:28.516 --> 00:12:30.536 I knew it was wrong, but it felt so good. 00:12:31.356 --> 00:12:33.706 I couldn't stop doing it, because I was definitely a full blown actor 00:12:33.706 --> 00:12:34.796 at that time, though I didn't know. 00:12:35.436 --> 00:12:39.276 Church was right, doctrinally, that yes, this is horrifically damaging. 00:12:39.776 --> 00:12:44.066 So I just figured I'm, more of a bad person because I'm, I'm still engaging 00:12:44.066 --> 00:12:48.326 this and I'm still pushing it to worse and worse levels, air quotes. 00:12:48.826 --> 00:12:51.836 James: What's your relationship with God during this period? 00:12:51.896 --> 00:12:54.986 Nathan: Uh, he's disgusted at me. 00:12:54.996 --> 00:12:56.516 He hates my guts. 00:12:56.686 --> 00:13:00.206 He just wishes I would stop, wonders why I can't stop. 00:13:00.906 --> 00:13:02.956 Doesn't really want to have anything to do with me. 00:13:03.446 --> 00:13:05.476 Not interested in answering my prayers. 00:13:05.976 --> 00:13:08.206 And definitely does not love me. 00:13:09.176 --> 00:13:09.556 Sam: Wow. 00:13:10.056 --> 00:13:15.036 How long did you sit in the pain of that kind of a relationship? 00:13:15.176 --> 00:13:16.056 Nathan: With God? 00:13:16.376 --> 00:13:16.776 Sam: Yeah. 00:13:16.806 --> 00:13:18.456 Nathan: Oh, for a significant amount of time. 00:13:18.556 --> 00:13:21.579 I found out about recovery when I was, Woah, woah, woah. 00:13:21.579 --> 00:13:21.869 21. 00:13:22.609 --> 00:13:26.889 I had experienced some suicidal ideation when I was a teenager. 00:13:27.439 --> 00:13:29.363 Sex and lust it got really bad. 00:13:29.433 --> 00:13:32.813 And then I coped with it really well. 00:13:32.823 --> 00:13:38.273 More air quotes with lust because I was getting attention, When I was 00:13:38.273 --> 00:13:42.213 about 21, it was just so miserable and I was like, I'm so ready to die. 00:13:42.253 --> 00:13:43.763 I cannot keep living like this. 00:13:44.003 --> 00:13:44.863 I'm miserable. 00:13:45.363 --> 00:13:50.193 And yeah, that's, I was just sitting in my own filth and it sucked. 00:13:50.693 --> 00:13:51.993 James: And you found some recovery? 00:13:52.773 --> 00:13:53.703 Nathan: Yes. 00:13:53.853 --> 00:13:54.783 Recovery found me. 00:13:54.823 --> 00:13:55.593 God found me. 00:13:55.843 --> 00:13:56.783 Yeah, pretty much. 00:13:57.133 --> 00:14:01.103 So yeah, I'm acting out, getting in more and more trouble, 00:14:01.823 --> 00:14:03.673 spiritually, emotionally, legally. 00:14:04.263 --> 00:14:07.873 I was born in Salem, Oregon, was living 50 miles north in 00:14:07.883 --> 00:14:09.223 Portland, Oregon with my father. 00:14:09.323 --> 00:14:10.613 More as a roommate situation. 00:14:10.663 --> 00:14:12.393 And that was to enable my drug. 00:14:12.853 --> 00:14:17.233 My friend passed away, and I moved back to Salem, Oregon, to be with 00:14:17.283 --> 00:14:20.393 people who knew him, because I was 50 miles away from any kind of support. 00:14:21.243 --> 00:14:24.363 So, moved back to Salem, went to a new church ward. 00:14:24.813 --> 00:14:31.473 Sam: So, you knew If I can distance myself somewhat from my support or from people 00:14:31.473 --> 00:14:35.513 who might encourage me to be healthy, then I can act out as much sexually as I want. 00:14:35.543 --> 00:14:36.503 Nathan: Yes, exactly. 00:14:36.573 --> 00:14:38.483 Another big part of it was I came home from my mission 00:14:38.493 --> 00:14:39.783 after two weeks in the MTC. 00:14:39.783 --> 00:14:39.983 Sam: Yeah. 00:14:40.123 --> 00:14:41.986 Nathan: And I was like, I cannot be seen by people. 00:14:42.206 --> 00:14:43.206 the people in my church. 00:14:43.706 --> 00:14:45.496 I was like, Oh, moving to my dad's house. 00:14:45.566 --> 00:14:48.416 And it was two days after I came home, I had packed up and it was gone. 00:14:48.556 --> 00:14:48.936 Sam: Wow. 00:14:49.046 --> 00:14:51.506 Nathan: And I was like, I just have to be out before Sunday because I'm not going 00:14:51.506 --> 00:14:54.566 to church and having people look at me and make me feel like I'm not good enough. 00:14:55.066 --> 00:14:55.396 Yeah. 00:14:55.636 --> 00:14:57.676 James: So you were projecting on everybody in your ward, 00:14:57.676 --> 00:14:58.706 assuming they would judge you. 00:14:58.716 --> 00:14:59.956 Nathan: Everybody around me. 00:14:59.956 --> 00:15:03.076 I was like, surely everybody can see in my eyes. 00:15:03.106 --> 00:15:03.306 They 00:15:03.306 --> 00:15:03.896 James: must hate me. 00:15:03.906 --> 00:15:04.086 That 00:15:04.086 --> 00:15:04.326 Nathan: I'm a dirty person. 00:15:04.326 --> 00:15:05.716 James: Hmm. 00:15:05.716 --> 00:15:06.386 Nathan: Yes 00:15:07.246 --> 00:15:09.676 James: surely they're judging me because I'm judging me. 00:15:09.686 --> 00:15:10.696 Nathan: Yes, that's a good point. 00:15:10.726 --> 00:15:11.516 I've never thought about that. 00:15:11.516 --> 00:15:13.196 I was definitely projecting onto everybody. 00:15:13.546 --> 00:15:18.806 And I was so angry and defensive and miserable all the time against my mom, 00:15:18.816 --> 00:15:23.236 against my friends who were religious. 00:15:23.686 --> 00:15:27.366 I was fine with people who were fine with porn, but if I thought 00:15:27.466 --> 00:15:31.326 that they thought porn was bad, then surely they would think I was bad. 00:15:31.676 --> 00:15:33.396 Sam: So tell us about the day you found recovery. 00:15:34.226 --> 00:15:38.996 Nathan: Yeah, I did the geographical fix, moved back to my mom's house, 00:15:39.016 --> 00:15:43.826 which, to be fair, was a much more recovery conducive environment. 00:15:43.916 --> 00:15:47.616 My mother was a lot more spiritual than my father, who was still an addict. 00:15:47.766 --> 00:15:50.116 The city was less Portland y. 00:15:50.166 --> 00:15:52.046 I don't know if you guys know about Portland, Oregon, but there's a 00:15:52.086 --> 00:15:54.806 lot of Babylonisms going around. 00:15:54.806 --> 00:15:56.886 And 00:15:56.886 --> 00:15:57.796 Sam: you were the king. 00:15:58.296 --> 00:15:59.586 Nathan: Of that, of that one little corner. 00:16:00.036 --> 00:16:02.916 So, yeah, I went to church and this guy was there. 00:16:02.956 --> 00:16:06.536 I can't even remember how it came up, but he was like, Oh, so, do you watch porn? 00:16:06.926 --> 00:16:09.031 I was like, Are you gonna crucify me? 00:16:09.051 --> 00:16:10.811 Nobody can know about my dirty secret. 00:16:10.811 --> 00:16:14.231 He's like, oh yeah, no, me too, but here's this podcast called Unashamed, Unafraid. 00:16:15.101 --> 00:16:17.871 And so, started listening to the podcast. 00:16:17.891 --> 00:16:18.081 Who 00:16:18.081 --> 00:16:18.671 Sam: is this guy? 00:16:19.291 --> 00:16:24.481 Nathan: Samuel Nowak, living in the Dalles, Oregon. 00:16:24.554 --> 00:16:25.344 he's awesome. 00:16:25.374 --> 00:16:25.934 Thanks. 00:16:26.564 --> 00:16:27.374 Shout out Samuel. 00:16:27.374 --> 00:16:28.274 Sam: Shout out to Samuel. 00:16:28.784 --> 00:16:29.594 We're going to verify. 00:16:29.594 --> 00:16:31.557 I'm going to contact him and make sure he's okay. 00:16:31.557 --> 00:16:31.767 Okay. 00:16:31.777 --> 00:16:34.037 Having his name on the podcast, but that's so cool. 00:16:34.077 --> 00:16:34.337 Nathan: Okay. 00:16:34.507 --> 00:16:38.277 Sam: So guy just comes up to you one day in church and says 00:16:39.167 --> 00:16:40.887 Nathan: Hey, have you ever struggled with pornography? 00:16:41.797 --> 00:16:46.402 And God made me courageous enough to say, Yes, I have. 00:16:47.222 --> 00:16:48.802 And, and he just went to town with it. 00:16:48.802 --> 00:16:51.642 He was like, is this meeting in church that works this thing 00:16:51.642 --> 00:16:52.932 called the 12 step program? 00:16:53.272 --> 00:16:54.472 You should come to that. 00:16:54.502 --> 00:16:55.792 Also, here's this podcast. 00:16:55.792 --> 00:16:58.532 There's this guy named Chris who has this awesome story with his wife. 00:16:59.032 --> 00:17:02.622 And I listened to the hulk of hope story and it just blew my mind. 00:17:02.632 --> 00:17:03.612 I'm like, Oh my gosh. 00:17:03.632 --> 00:17:06.662 And it also made me realize I don't want to do another 14 years of this. 00:17:07.162 --> 00:17:09.552 He was doing in his life and his marriage. 00:17:09.552 --> 00:17:09.882 So 00:17:10.382 --> 00:17:12.072 James: Unashamed Unafraid. 00:17:12.152 --> 00:17:13.242 Unashamed 00:17:13.492 --> 00:17:14.269 Nathan: Unafraid! 00:17:14.626 --> 00:17:17.456 I went to boot camp with that friend. 00:17:17.766 --> 00:17:22.846 I also went with my father because I was pregnant. 00:17:23.211 --> 00:17:25.361 Pretty codependent and I wanted to fix him. 00:17:25.381 --> 00:17:27.931 So the first time I went to bootcamp, I didn't get anything out of it. 00:17:27.961 --> 00:17:30.641 I was like, Oh, surely my dad should be writing this down. 00:17:30.641 --> 00:17:33.711 My dad is probably getting a lot out of this session and I 00:17:33.711 --> 00:17:34.801 was just trying to fix my dad. 00:17:34.801 --> 00:17:38.981 But the second time I went was a lot more beneficial because I went for 00:17:38.991 --> 00:17:40.441 me and didn't go with anybody else. 00:17:40.691 --> 00:17:43.941 James: The first one wasn't really the one And it was good, and I 00:17:43.941 --> 00:17:44.641 Nathan: learned a lot. 00:17:44.651 --> 00:17:45.981 The second one Was 00:17:46.121 --> 00:17:47.231 James: the third one the one? 00:17:47.421 --> 00:17:50.181 Nathan: The second one was the one for me because I went for me. 00:17:50.401 --> 00:17:50.911 James: Okay. 00:17:50.961 --> 00:17:52.171 Nathan: I was at a place in my recovery. 00:17:52.171 --> 00:17:54.851 Three months into working this program and I'm on top of the world. 00:17:54.931 --> 00:17:55.901 This is so cool. 00:17:56.141 --> 00:17:57.071 I'm ready to quit. 00:17:57.641 --> 00:18:01.161 And I was spreading the message with fire and love. 00:18:01.471 --> 00:18:04.091 I shouldn't really have the whole message internalized myself yet. 00:18:04.151 --> 00:18:04.481 Sure. 00:18:04.611 --> 00:18:07.701 So that's where I was at the first time I went to bootcamp. 00:18:08.356 --> 00:18:11.846 But yeah, the second time when I went for myself, I drink 00:18:11.846 --> 00:18:12.996 the Kool Aid, as Steve put it. 00:18:13.016 --> 00:18:14.776 I was singing songs. 00:18:14.776 --> 00:18:16.006 I was holding people's hands. 00:18:16.006 --> 00:18:17.856 I was taking notes. 00:18:17.856 --> 00:18:21.406 I was praying more earnestly than the last time. 00:18:21.496 --> 00:18:24.006 I was doing stuff that made my heart come alive. 00:18:24.006 --> 00:18:24.866 Jeremy was there. 00:18:24.876 --> 00:18:25.976 He had his bows. 00:18:25.976 --> 00:18:27.916 I bought myself a compound bow when I came home. 00:18:28.676 --> 00:18:30.816 So yes, the second bootcamp was it for me. 00:18:31.316 --> 00:18:35.236 James: And how far into recovery were you when you came a second time? 00:18:35.656 --> 00:18:39.322 , Nathan: Maybe like a year, year to year and a half. 00:18:39.502 --> 00:18:43.352 I was just head over heels into recovery the moment I found out about it. 00:18:43.362 --> 00:18:46.912 Cause I had tried so many different ways to fix myself before I found 00:18:46.912 --> 00:18:52.142 out about God doing it for me in a, in the form of a 12 step program. 00:18:52.762 --> 00:18:56.792 So as soon as I heard somebody say Oh, you're not the one that fixes you. 00:18:56.812 --> 00:18:57.452 God fixes you. 00:18:57.452 --> 00:18:59.952 I'm like, Oh, okay. 00:19:00.022 --> 00:19:00.942 And I was really into it. 00:19:01.462 --> 00:19:03.832 James: What was some of your big aha moments? 00:19:03.882 --> 00:19:06.142 Like, man, I wish I had known this. 00:19:07.062 --> 00:19:10.482 Nathan: It's a hard thing because I had heard all those things before. 00:19:10.492 --> 00:19:10.932 James: Okay. 00:19:11.112 --> 00:19:14.142 Nathan: As a child in my church, you grow up singing songs like, I am a 00:19:14.142 --> 00:19:16.332 child of God, I heard that every week. 00:19:16.372 --> 00:19:18.032 God loves me, God loves me, God loves me. 00:19:18.232 --> 00:19:20.982 And yet here I am, thinking God hates my guts for what I'm doing. 00:19:21.092 --> 00:19:21.442 James: Right. 00:19:21.622 --> 00:19:24.812 Nathan: And it wasn't until I had experiences that changed my beliefs. 00:19:25.382 --> 00:19:31.099 Me offering my broken self to God and Him saying, Yeah, you've done some stuff that 00:19:31.219 --> 00:19:33.269 sucks, and I love you so much anyway. 00:19:33.749 --> 00:19:38.119 I learned to talk to God, and I learned to listen to Him in recovery. 00:19:38.859 --> 00:19:44.499 I learned to take care of myself more, take care of my body my emotional needs. 00:19:44.749 --> 00:19:46.469 There's just so much and I'm still learning. 00:19:46.549 --> 00:19:50.939 So I, yeah, my relationship with God is the biggest thing. 00:19:51.029 --> 00:19:52.749 And then I would say the second biggest thing is learning 00:19:52.749 --> 00:19:54.229 about why I was doing it. 00:19:54.239 --> 00:19:57.259 Cause everybody goes to porn, to sex, to women for a reason. 00:19:57.559 --> 00:19:59.009 Mine was that I didn't feel good enough. 00:19:59.029 --> 00:20:00.069 I just didn't know that. 00:20:00.569 --> 00:20:00.869 James: Yeah. 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:04.569 Sam: Tell us about the moment where things started to switch for you 00:20:04.669 --> 00:20:06.339 in your relationship with God. 00:20:06.349 --> 00:20:08.659 I would imagine that was pretty significant. 00:20:09.159 --> 00:20:12.399 Nathan: The one that always comes to mind was before I moved back 00:20:12.399 --> 00:20:15.139 from Portland back to Salem, before I found out about recovery. 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:20.369 I was in a church on a weekday practicing organ because I played for my congregation 00:20:20.989 --> 00:20:23.474 and It just wasn't coming out. 00:20:23.484 --> 00:20:26.524 I was hitting all the wrong notes and I was like, I should know this. 00:20:26.944 --> 00:20:27.624 This sucks. 00:20:27.644 --> 00:20:31.854 And I was just breaking down, sobbing, having really exacerbated 00:20:31.904 --> 00:20:36.044 reactions to really simple events of me playing a song wrong. 00:20:36.824 --> 00:20:41.604 And I was restless and irritable wandering around the church and 00:20:41.614 --> 00:20:44.304 said, God, I think you hate me. 00:20:44.624 --> 00:20:46.434 But please just give me something. 00:20:46.734 --> 00:20:47.964 walked into this empty room. 00:20:48.514 --> 00:20:50.944 And there's a picture of Jesus Christ on the wall. 00:20:51.074 --> 00:20:51.974 I'm like, okay, cool. 00:20:51.974 --> 00:20:54.984 I turned around and walked out and I walked out to the parking lot and 00:20:54.984 --> 00:20:59.114 there's this father with his young son on a tricycle and they are both 00:20:59.194 --> 00:21:00.404 just so in love with each other. 00:21:00.594 --> 00:21:03.154 And God said, that is how I see you. 00:21:03.744 --> 00:21:04.314 And I just. 00:21:04.834 --> 00:21:09.244 Lost it, 45 minutes of me just bawling and sobbing and letting God's love in 00:21:09.254 --> 00:21:11.954 for the first time in a long, long time. 00:21:12.454 --> 00:21:16.184 And that's also the day I made the decision to move back , to Salem. 00:21:16.684 --> 00:21:20.064 James: So I'm going to imagine there's probably a lot of listeners out there 00:21:20.544 --> 00:21:26.924 that are in a place of shame, self hatred knowing that they need to be 00:21:26.924 --> 00:21:29.204 fixed and that's why they're listening. 00:21:29.244 --> 00:21:29.744 Right. 00:21:30.634 --> 00:21:32.734 But they still need to. 00:21:32.734 --> 00:21:36.784 Understand feel or sense that God actually really loves them. 00:21:37.034 --> 00:21:38.074 Was that a journey for you? 00:21:38.074 --> 00:21:39.484 Was that a moment for you? 00:21:40.154 --> 00:21:43.394 If you could give some advice or some tips or insights into 00:21:43.394 --> 00:21:46.384 some listeners at that stage, 00:21:46.394 --> 00:21:47.264 Nathan: it's consistent effort. 00:21:47.274 --> 00:21:48.774 God gave me a jumpstart in the story. 00:21:48.784 --> 00:21:49.474 I just gave you. 00:21:49.614 --> 00:21:50.014 James: Okay. 00:21:50.554 --> 00:21:53.744 Nathan: And then I kept acting out and then my sensitivity 00:21:53.764 --> 00:21:54.944 to his love went back down. 00:21:55.214 --> 00:21:55.554 James: Okay. 00:21:55.574 --> 00:21:56.814 Nathan: But I knew it was there. 00:21:56.904 --> 00:21:58.484 I could remember what it felt like. 00:21:58.484 --> 00:21:58.524 Okay. 00:21:58.539 --> 00:22:00.169 James: And 00:22:00.169 --> 00:22:01.669 Nathan: so I kept looking for it. 00:22:02.169 --> 00:22:03.089 James: Looking for it. 00:22:03.169 --> 00:22:03.829 What does that mean? 00:22:04.149 --> 00:22:05.969 For somebody who's trying , what does that mean? 00:22:05.969 --> 00:22:06.639 What do I do? 00:22:06.649 --> 00:22:07.719 How do I look for it? 00:22:08.449 --> 00:22:12.669 Nathan: Honestly, I think that event just convinced me that I was worthy of it. 00:22:12.719 --> 00:22:13.619 Somehow. 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:19.729 I didn't know how, but I finally believed that I was worthy of God's love. 00:22:19.989 --> 00:22:20.329 James: Okay. 00:22:21.239 --> 00:22:26.579 Nathan: And then, that allowed me to open myself up a little bit more. 00:22:27.199 --> 00:22:31.219 And regular, everyday occurrences could be testaments to me of God's love for me. 00:22:31.449 --> 00:22:34.059 Of people at church saying hi, and somebody checking in 00:22:34.059 --> 00:22:35.249 and saying, how have you been? 00:22:35.989 --> 00:22:40.989 All these things that, in the past, would validate my sense of worth in a lustful 00:22:40.989 --> 00:22:46.729 way, now they're These people are angels sent from God checking in on me, and 00:22:46.729 --> 00:22:48.399 that is how he's showing me he loves me. 00:22:49.169 --> 00:22:53.674 And then, once I got some more of that Went to boot camp, learned that 00:22:53.674 --> 00:22:57.174 I can go out into the woods and kneel down and pray and seek him for myself. 00:22:57.424 --> 00:22:57.744 James: Yeah. 00:22:58.264 --> 00:23:02.194 Nathan: And now that I believe that he can love me, I will ask 00:23:02.194 --> 00:23:03.874 him directly, do you love me? 00:23:03.954 --> 00:23:04.354 James: Mm hmm. 00:23:04.834 --> 00:23:06.284 Nathan: Okay, well I did this. 00:23:06.304 --> 00:23:07.074 Do you still love me? 00:23:07.104 --> 00:23:08.524 Oh, well, okay, that wasn't bad. 00:23:08.694 --> 00:23:10.204 Let me tell you about this bad thing I did. 00:23:10.544 --> 00:23:11.304 Do you still love me? 00:23:11.374 --> 00:23:12.104 Yes, I do. 00:23:12.584 --> 00:23:15.734 Oh, so seeking for it, asking for it every day. 00:23:16.324 --> 00:23:21.364 I got into the habit a couple years ago every time I, every time my 00:23:21.364 --> 00:23:26.404 eyes were drawn to the female figure out and about, I would say, God, 00:23:26.404 --> 00:23:27.784 whatever she thinks about me is great. 00:23:27.784 --> 00:23:29.074 What do you think about me? 00:23:29.194 --> 00:23:29.864 Sam: Wow. 00:23:30.364 --> 00:23:30.894 Nathan: Love that. 00:23:31.194 --> 00:23:32.024 . It's powerful. 00:23:32.044 --> 00:23:33.314 Sam: Yeah, that is powerful. 00:23:33.564 --> 00:23:37.864 I'm hearing this beautiful contrast this is what my world was like. 00:23:38.194 --> 00:23:44.014 The ashes of, all the things I endured when I was younger the, the self hatred, 00:23:44.264 --> 00:23:49.384 the shame or perceived shame in a lot of ways the feeling that they must hate me. 00:23:50.054 --> 00:23:51.854 I must not be worthy. 00:23:52.854 --> 00:23:56.764 And then you have one experience where you suddenly started 00:23:56.764 --> 00:23:58.614 to feel like, you know what? 00:23:58.614 --> 00:23:59.274 I am worthy. 00:23:59.694 --> 00:24:00.154 Nathan: Yeah. 00:24:00.234 --> 00:24:03.884 Sam: And it's like our perspective of the world is a reflection 00:24:03.884 --> 00:24:04.934 of how we see ourselves. 00:24:04.934 --> 00:24:05.164 Right. 00:24:05.994 --> 00:24:08.514 And I love that quote because I'm seeing that. 00:24:08.524 --> 00:24:12.244 Suddenly everything shifted and God showed you who you were and 00:24:12.244 --> 00:24:13.674 everything started to change. 00:24:14.174 --> 00:24:16.504 How do you see your perspective shift? 00:24:16.504 --> 00:24:18.314 Throughout the course of your recovery 00:24:18.634 --> 00:24:20.994 Nathan: There's always something new. 00:24:21.419 --> 00:24:25.319 Where I think, Oh, if I could have known that a year ago, and then I think, well, 00:24:25.349 --> 00:24:27.889 no, this came exactly when it needed to. 00:24:28.609 --> 00:24:34.039 So God always has more for me to learn and love about myself. 00:24:34.539 --> 00:24:41.139 James: So as you have gone on this journey with God and are working to learn 00:24:41.149 --> 00:24:43.559 about him, who he is, what he's like. 00:24:43.614 --> 00:24:44.894 Who is God to you now? 00:24:45.734 --> 00:24:46.484 Nathan: He's my daddy. 00:24:46.774 --> 00:24:47.574 He loves me. 00:24:47.654 --> 00:24:51.084 He is incredibly proud of me. 00:24:51.584 --> 00:24:54.434 He's interested in what I'm interested in. 00:24:54.444 --> 00:24:57.044 He's interested in the project car I'm working in. 00:24:57.054 --> 00:24:58.584 He's interested in my marriage. 00:24:58.814 --> 00:25:01.834 He's interested in the people I talk to at church. 00:25:02.334 --> 00:25:04.814 He recognizes that I'm not perfect. 00:25:04.814 --> 00:25:06.514 He doesn't expect me to be perfect. 00:25:07.014 --> 00:25:08.504 Sam: But what if you did act out? 00:25:08.834 --> 00:25:08.974 , That's 00:25:09.104 --> 00:25:09.614 Nathan: fine. 00:25:09.914 --> 00:25:10.604 Sam: Exactly. 00:25:11.727 --> 00:25:14.467 Nathan: I'm, by his grace, I'm sober. 00:25:14.787 --> 00:25:16.077 I wasn't sober forever. 00:25:16.077 --> 00:25:19.787 I was sober for 11 months and then the emotions got the better of me 00:25:19.787 --> 00:25:22.897 and I masturbated and it sucked. 00:25:22.897 --> 00:25:23.467 It was hard. 00:25:24.337 --> 00:25:30.357 And then less than an hour later, I knew once again, how much God loved me. 00:25:30.507 --> 00:25:30.807 Sam: Hmm. 00:25:31.307 --> 00:25:32.187 Nathan: So who is God? 00:25:32.687 --> 00:25:33.577 He's everything. 00:25:34.387 --> 00:25:36.677 He's, yeah, I guess I'll just leave it. 00:25:36.677 --> 00:25:37.327 He's my dad. 00:25:37.627 --> 00:25:42.211 Sam: It's really beautiful that the ways that God could have us speak 00:25:42.211 --> 00:25:44.531 of him, he chooses the word father. 00:25:44.981 --> 00:25:45.261 James: Yeah. 00:25:45.761 --> 00:25:49.941 Sam: What does it feel like to be fathered by God in a process where you're failing? 00:25:50.561 --> 00:25:53.901 and relapsing or having setbacks. 00:25:54.611 --> 00:25:56.641 Nathan: I love the phrase fathered by God. 00:25:57.591 --> 00:26:00.971 It feels so warm. 00:26:01.471 --> 00:26:04.791 It feels like I'm looking at the kid next door's dad, who 00:26:04.791 --> 00:26:06.051 I think is the perfect dad. 00:26:06.131 --> 00:26:08.391 Like, oh man, my dad doesn't do that to me. 00:26:08.891 --> 00:26:13.201 But, This dad does, and I really don't mean to bash on my father or 00:26:13.201 --> 00:26:18.055 my stepdad because my higher power fathered me through both of them. 00:26:18.055 --> 00:26:21.591 And I've learned a lot about being a man from both of them in different ways. 00:26:22.411 --> 00:26:28.461 But being fathered by God feels like being loved by 40 different men in my life. 00:26:28.711 --> 00:26:33.591 Sam: You started to experience worthiness and love and being fathered by God. 00:26:34.091 --> 00:26:37.461 Since you learned those truths and started to have some shift in your 00:26:37.461 --> 00:26:40.821 behavior and your thinking what has that led to and what do things look 00:26:40.821 --> 00:26:42.971 like for you right now in your life? 00:26:43.391 --> 00:26:48.206 Nathan: It's led to A lot of step 12 work, which is carry the message 00:26:48.206 --> 00:26:49.836 of recovery to other people. 00:26:50.286 --> 00:26:51.906 I've sponsored some men. 00:26:52.156 --> 00:26:56.666 There are so many men out there I need to get to them because Samuel got to me. 00:26:57.176 --> 00:26:59.966 And if there's just one person out there, I can say , Oh, hey, yeah, I 00:26:59.976 --> 00:27:03.536 watch pornography and masturbate and to blow his mind and say, you can 00:27:03.536 --> 00:27:08.246 talk about that, that, that would be, that's what I want to be doing. 00:27:08.576 --> 00:27:09.916 So that's where I'm at with my recovery. 00:27:09.916 --> 00:27:11.846 I feel like, and there's always more to learn. 00:27:11.906 --> 00:27:18.526 I'm in a really difficult spot with some, with like re contextualizing 00:27:18.796 --> 00:27:22.716 my role in my marriage and the role of recovery in marriage. 00:27:23.396 --> 00:27:27.326 Where I'm at at the moment is, is just getting it out to other people because 00:27:27.326 --> 00:27:31.216 it's such a taboo topic like People can say like, oh, yeah, I drink too much 00:27:31.216 --> 00:27:35.646 of the bar on weekends And I'm kind of ashamed of that but it's a lot Rarer, 00:27:35.646 --> 00:27:40.076 I feel like to hear people say Yeah, I watch porn after my wife goes to bed, 00:27:40.176 --> 00:27:45.326 James: If you were to Talk about late later stages of recovery then 00:27:45.776 --> 00:27:48.896 what have been maybe one or two key pieces that you've been picking up 00:27:48.906 --> 00:27:51.876 lately that have Just been really important or impactful for you 00:27:52.376 --> 00:27:53.866 Because you have some sobriety behind you now, 00:27:53.866 --> 00:27:57.506 Nathan: yes Expecting other people to be accountable for themselves. 00:27:57.936 --> 00:28:01.776 I spent a lot of time the first few people I sponsored god bless them. 00:28:01.776 --> 00:28:04.102 I was like Oh, I will recover for you. 00:28:04.602 --> 00:28:06.912 Your recovery will be a measure of my faith. 00:28:07.412 --> 00:28:09.772 So that was unfulfilling for both parties. 00:28:10.272 --> 00:28:17.732 So just learning that this is my God and he's also your God and he will 00:28:18.232 --> 00:28:20.972 work with you all on your own time. 00:28:21.337 --> 00:28:24.667 And in his own terms, and I don't have to do that for anybody. 00:28:25.417 --> 00:28:29.347 I can be his mouthpiece for those who are willing to listen, but it's 00:28:29.357 --> 00:28:31.187 also not a measure of my worth, 00:28:32.077 --> 00:28:33.417 James: that's a good insight to have. 00:28:33.917 --> 00:28:34.877 Sam: How long have you been sober? 00:28:35.297 --> 00:28:36.737 Nathan: November 2nd, 2024. 00:28:36.747 --> 00:28:38.647 So about a year and two months. 00:28:38.817 --> 00:28:41.167 Sam: I love what you just said about the measure of your worth. 00:28:41.817 --> 00:28:44.967 The way you got sober, was that you stopped equating the measure 00:28:44.967 --> 00:28:46.257 of your worth to sobriety. 00:28:46.637 --> 00:28:49.097 You stopped equating the measure of your worth to your behavior. 00:28:49.427 --> 00:28:51.407 You stopped equating the measure of your worth to how many 00:28:51.407 --> 00:28:53.317 women were lusting after you 00:28:53.367 --> 00:28:53.647 Nathan: yeah. 00:28:53.648 --> 00:28:56.008 Sam: It's funny cause, , you think that's not how it works, 00:28:56.008 --> 00:28:59.248 but it's actually that you learn that you're worthy in the process. 00:28:59.318 --> 00:29:00.148 Nathan: Yes. 00:29:00.248 --> 00:29:01.328 Sam: And that's the thing. 00:29:01.328 --> 00:29:02.998 That helps you to overcome it. 00:29:03.058 --> 00:29:03.958 Nathan: There's some give and take. 00:29:03.958 --> 00:29:06.958 I didn't learn the one big truth that God loves me right at the beginning. 00:29:07.498 --> 00:29:12.478 I learned to stop doing harmful behaviors and learn to start doing some good things. 00:29:12.478 --> 00:29:14.148 And then that truth just kind of snuck in there. 00:29:14.648 --> 00:29:16.328 Sam: So you're saying it's a process. 00:29:16.368 --> 00:29:17.158 Nathan: It's a process. 00:29:17.158 --> 00:29:17.628 Yeah. 00:29:18.738 --> 00:29:21.998 Sam: What are some special nuggets, some golden nuggets that you have? 00:29:22.058 --> 00:29:22.518 Ah, man. 00:29:23.038 --> 00:29:26.978 If you could sit down with someone who's really in the thick of it, and 00:29:26.978 --> 00:29:30.228 they just needed some spark notes about what recovery is actually going to be 00:29:30.228 --> 00:29:30.468 like. 00:29:30.778 --> 00:29:33.218 Nathan: Self compassion is huge. 00:29:33.668 --> 00:29:36.715 If I was sitting down with somebody and they're in the thick of it, I'm 00:29:36.715 --> 00:29:42.308 masturbating every day or a few times a week, then I would tell them that's okay. 00:29:42.308 --> 00:29:43.618 You can get better. 00:29:43.628 --> 00:29:43.763 You can get better. 00:29:44.263 --> 00:29:45.183 And that's okay. 00:29:46.387 --> 00:29:51.287 hatred and low self esteem take a lot of work to turn around, but they 00:29:51.287 --> 00:29:52.577 can definitely be turned around. 00:29:52.827 --> 00:29:56.797 It's so much easier to recover when I'm being compassionate about myself. 00:29:57.297 --> 00:30:01.267 When I have a relapse than when I'm blaming myself. 00:30:01.297 --> 00:30:02.097 So that's a big one. 00:30:02.317 --> 00:30:08.127 Sam: What was the hardest thing sexually to overcome with self compassion? 00:30:08.137 --> 00:30:10.277 I'd imagine there were some things that you just really 00:30:10.597 --> 00:30:12.417 had a hard time letting go of. 00:30:12.917 --> 00:30:17.597 Nathan: I had one event that really let me know this is serious. 00:30:17.597 --> 00:30:21.917 I went over to a young woman's house when I was 19 or 20 and that 00:30:21.917 --> 00:30:25.787 night got a call from a police officer with a rape accusation. 00:30:26.087 --> 00:30:29.227 That was also the first time I had talked to my mom about anything since 00:30:29.227 --> 00:30:31.477 I was 14 because I was terrified. 00:30:31.507 --> 00:30:37.177 I was like, Mom, I was invited over and now I have a rape accusation. 00:30:37.177 --> 00:30:37.777 And what do I do? 00:30:38.562 --> 00:30:42.832 That was really scary, but just saying those words out loud that I 00:30:42.832 --> 00:30:45.652 had sex, I did the thing that your church and my church says not to do. 00:30:45.802 --> 00:30:50.602 That was really hard because I've never been able to 00:30:50.602 --> 00:30:52.082 contact that individual again. 00:30:52.702 --> 00:30:55.642 So I don't know the story at all. 00:30:55.792 --> 00:30:59.592 . But I don't know why I got the rape accusation when I thought I was 00:30:59.592 --> 00:31:03.182 being invited over and I don't know if I will know why in this life 00:31:03.342 --> 00:31:07.392 forgiving myself for putting myself in that position that's been hard. 00:31:07.692 --> 00:31:09.848 . Sam: What's the song, if you had to pick one, 00:31:09.988 --> 00:31:12.338 That is recovery for you? 00:31:13.158 --> 00:31:18.402 Nathan: There's an artist that goes by the name of Holy and 00:31:18.402 --> 00:31:20.232 he has a song called Jesus Saves. 00:31:20.732 --> 00:31:24.882 The last few lines of the song are, I know he has the power to save you 00:31:24.892 --> 00:31:26.702 because out of all people he saved me. 00:31:27.202 --> 00:31:32.822 He saved me from drugs, he saved me from clubs, from hatred, from 00:31:32.822 --> 00:31:37.122 Satan, from pride, from dying, from porn, and from hoeing. 00:31:37.122 --> 00:31:42.982 And, yeah, he's saved me too. 00:31:43.482 --> 00:31:44.032 Sam: Love it. 00:31:44.172 --> 00:31:45.692 Nathan, thanks for being on here, man. 00:31:45.742 --> 00:31:46.512 You're a rock star. 00:31:46.792 --> 00:31:47.592 Nathan: Thanks for having me. 00:31:48.162 --> 00:31:49.732 Sam: Thanks for watching Unashamed Unafraid. 00:31:50.048 --> 00:31:53.348 Subscribe to our YouTube channel, You can find us on social 00:31:53.348 --> 00:31:55.058 media at Unashamed Unafraid. 00:31:55.318 --> 00:31:59.668 Get access to our bonus content and become an outsider on unashamedunafraid. 00:31:59.708 --> 00:32:00.108 com. 00:32:00.378 --> 00:32:03.618 If this was helpful to you, it'll probably be helpful to someone else. 00:32:03.848 --> 00:32:05.818 So take a minute right now and share this. 00:32:06.268 --> 00:32:10.188 Thanks again for watching and until next time, continue to live unashamed. 00:32:10.578 --> 00:32:12.088 Here is Jesus saves. 00:32:12.815 --> 00:32:12.985 Speaker: K. 00:32:12.985 --> 00:32:13.055 O. 00:32:13.055 --> 00:32:13.655 shot your ass. 00:32:22.275 --> 00:32:23.475 Turn me up in the headphones. 00:32:23.475 --> 00:32:26.955 Young K on the track. 00:32:30.295 --> 00:32:31.695 I'm trying to reach for the stars. 00:32:32.005 --> 00:32:32.905 I know I'm a star. 00:32:33.645 --> 00:32:35.305 You can be whoever you wanna be. 00:32:35.835 --> 00:32:36.825 Just go with your heart. 00:32:37.485 --> 00:32:39.105 I was close to quitting on myself. 00:32:39.515 --> 00:32:40.675 But God gave me a spark. 00:32:41.145 --> 00:32:43.085 His Holy Spirit got me glowing for real. 00:32:43.545 --> 00:32:44.515 I'm a light in the dark. 00:32:44.545 --> 00:32:45.215 Yes Lord. 00:32:45.455 --> 00:32:49.035 This ain't for the church, this for the streets This for the humble, this for the 00:32:49.035 --> 00:32:53.035 meek This for the single mothers with no peace This for them young brothers pushin 00:32:53.035 --> 00:32:56.825 pieces It's a way out, you just gotta have faith God will never put too much 00:32:56.825 --> 00:33:00.775 on your plate Man I read my Bible but I pray e'ry day So I know that I'm covered 00:33:00.805 --> 00:33:04.845 by grace They can't block my blessings, back then I was on the corner beggin God 00:33:04.845 --> 00:33:08.355 took me in when I was sloppy seconds Got this real and it ain't no second guessin 00:33:08.715 --> 00:33:12.241 Trust me, I was headed for the grave I was blinded by the fame, I was a slave 00:33:12.241 --> 00:33:15.625 You don't put your faith in Jesus, boy you brave Man I tried to Let the world 00:33:15.655 --> 00:33:21.125 know Jesus saves, cause he saved me, from drugs, what else, from clubs, what else, 00:33:21.575 --> 00:33:28.215 from pride, what else, from dying, what else, from satan, what else, from hatred, 00:33:28.645 --> 00:33:33.315 what else, from porn, what else, from hoein', for real, he ain't nothing like 00:33:33.315 --> 00:33:37.035 Cain but he able, ain't nothing but his grace that unstable, you can't tell me 00:33:37.035 --> 00:33:40.345 about nothing I know I'm favored, I ain't used to all this love, I'm used to haters, 00:33:40.585 --> 00:33:44.805 cause satan got the world backwards, got the world full of demon bastards, got us 00:33:44.805 --> 00:33:49.065 lost, got us all in shackles He a snake, he a pterodactyl Can't believe you tried 00:33:49.065 --> 00:33:53.485 to play me, dawg I want nothin but a baby, dawg See, I know about your naive, 00:33:53.505 --> 00:33:58.345 that stank lil girl Biting heads off of baby dolls Lucifer, you a big hater I 00:33:58.345 --> 00:34:03.841 wanna be your pump faker Stage dancing, you a rump shaker Headshots, I'm throwing 00:34:03.841 --> 00:34:07.810 haymakers I'm trying to tell him Jesus saves, He's the one helped me change my 00:34:07.810 --> 00:34:11.690 ways, It's gonna get hard but keep your faith, And when you talk to God just keep 00:34:11.690 --> 00:34:15.720 it straight, Gabbana out here giving game for free, Gabbana out here praising G O 00:34:15.720 --> 00:34:19.940 D, I know he got the power to save you, Cause out of all people he saved me. 00:34:21.160 --> 00:34:22.810 From drugs, what else? 00:34:23.130 --> 00:34:25.089 From clubs, what else? 00:34:25.090 --> 00:34:26.810 From pride, what else? 00:34:27.090 --> 00:34:28.730 From dying, what else? 00:34:29.070 --> 00:34:30.720 From Satan, what else? 00:34:31.070 --> 00:34:32.680 From hatred, what else? 00:34:33.090 --> 00:34:34.700 From porn, what else? 00:34:35.040 --> 00:34:35.980 From hoein', for real 00:34:38.030 --> 00:34:39.180 I serve a big God 00:34:41.380 --> 00:34:46.583 I know he got the power to save you Cause out of all the people 00:34:46.583 --> 00:34:50.844 he saved me, for real And Gobana