WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.320 ♪ Got a good thing coming, and it's all I need ♪ 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:07.520 ♪ Everything I wanted ♪ 00:00:07.520 --> 00:00:08.360 Every time. 00:00:10.920 --> 00:00:11.880 Hey everybody. 00:00:11.880 --> 00:00:13.920 So today we wanted to talk about 00:00:13.920 --> 00:00:16.760 USAID tariffs and Bitcoin and how, 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:17.879 kind of like a macro update, 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:20.240 because we got Corey back, who's our macro guy. 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:24.520 Me personally, I used to be macro stuff, 00:00:24.520 --> 00:00:27.840 but no longer in the investment world, 00:00:27.840 --> 00:00:28.879 no longer doing that. 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:31.639 But yeah, if you guys want to go around 00:00:31.639 --> 00:00:34.959 and do like a, I don't know, round robin, 00:00:34.959 --> 00:00:38.360 short introduction, I'm Bondor. 00:00:38.360 --> 00:00:39.240 I'm here in LA. 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:41.520 I've been involved with Bitcoin for a while. 00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:44.840 Presently a developer, but also trying to push 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:49.840 towards media and media-related endeavors. 00:00:50.959 --> 00:00:53.759 So, JD. 00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:56.720 Sweet. 00:00:56.720 --> 00:00:59.279 Hey guys, JD, SoccerPunk Cinema. 00:00:59.279 --> 00:01:01.599 I do advertising, so I just love ads 00:01:01.599 --> 00:01:03.599 and SoccerPunk Cinema is kind of my foray 00:01:03.599 --> 00:01:06.959 into features and content and like longer form stuff. 00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:08.599 But I just like telling stories 00:01:08.599 --> 00:01:09.559 and kind of making stuff go on. 00:01:09.559 --> 00:01:11.279 I'll kick it to you, Corey, next. 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:15.199 Awesome. 00:01:15.199 --> 00:01:18.120 Corey, I'm a co-founder of Indie Hub Studio, 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:22.160 and I also produce independent films and TV shows 00:01:22.160 --> 00:01:23.800 when the opportunity arises. 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:28.559 Presently in Rome, if I'm not mistaken, too. 00:01:30.279 --> 00:01:31.360 Presently in Italy. 00:01:31.360 --> 00:01:34.519 Yeah, I just wrapped a travel show in Italy, yeah. 00:01:36.559 --> 00:01:38.120 Let's kick it to Zach. 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:42.519 Yo, Zach, I'm the founder of IndieHub.studio. 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:44.839 Basically, it's a film exhibition platform, 00:01:44.839 --> 00:01:46.400 independent film exhibition platform 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:48.400 built on top of Lightning. 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:49.519 Check it out. 00:01:51.279 --> 00:01:52.120 What's up? 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:52.959 I'm Anton. 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:57.639 I'm a filmmaker, cinematographer, and live in LA. 00:02:00.279 --> 00:02:01.639 Cool. 00:02:01.639 --> 00:02:03.279 All right, so to kick us off, 00:02:05.720 --> 00:02:07.639 it's been rattling around my brain 00:02:07.639 --> 00:02:09.399 for the last month and a half, 00:02:09.399 --> 00:02:11.960 and I've not been able to have a good conversation about it, 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:16.960 but the idea of knock-on effects and impacts 00:02:17.160 --> 00:02:21.240 of the no longer USAID-funded programs, 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:24.960 because it seems like all of these USAID-funded programs 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:28.160 were essentially just all left-leaning. 00:02:28.440 --> 00:02:29.520 There was nothing on the right. 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:32.520 It was like, there was no church plants. 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:35.600 There was no conservative things, 00:02:35.600 --> 00:02:38.600 apart from one or two, I don't know, 00:02:41.679 --> 00:02:44.039 quasi-conservative effort. 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:47.520 It was almost all exclusively left-wing media, 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:51.639 transgender, clown stuff, 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:55.320 LGBT, clown world, LGBTQ, 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:58.839 all sorts of weird stuff on the left, 00:02:58.839 --> 00:03:01.080 and to the left extreme, right? 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:03.720 Now, all of that funding gets cut out, 00:03:03.720 --> 00:03:05.720 and there's a few knock-on effects 00:03:05.720 --> 00:03:09.960 that immediately happen through Dodge's efforts, right? 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:13.880 One of them is the real estate in DC takes a dive 00:03:13.880 --> 00:03:16.639 because everyone can't afford their home anymore. 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:21.639 Another one is the political narratives 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:26.720 around like, hey, these news organizations 00:03:26.720 --> 00:03:29.199 were getting funding from the government through USAID 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:32.039 to push particular narratives. 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:33.520 They're no longer getting that funding, 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:36.000 so they're not gonna be pushing those narratives anymore, 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.720 right, and then you look at other stuff, 00:03:38.720 --> 00:03:40.800 like the whole, I don't know, 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:42.360 funding transgender musicals 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:44.679 or funding whatever, Sesame Street, 00:03:44.679 --> 00:03:45.520 and all this other stuff. 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:48.399 It's like this media essentially is just shut down, 00:03:48.399 --> 00:03:50.880 and most of that media is left-wing media. 00:03:50.919 --> 00:03:54.279 Now, when you shut down left-wing media, 00:03:54.279 --> 00:03:57.199 which is being paid for by left-wing politicians, 00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:00.160 it's like you're creating this huge gap 00:04:00.160 --> 00:04:04.720 in political narrative and the back and forth 00:04:04.720 --> 00:04:07.520 because nobody can afford to be on the other side anymore. 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:09.919 So the question for Corey is, 00:04:11.119 --> 00:04:14.520 this impacts international relations, 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:19.519 game theory, funding, real estate, and so much more. 00:04:20.119 --> 00:04:22.040 It just keeps going, and the more you think about it, 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:24.239 the more crazy and goofy it gets. 00:04:24.239 --> 00:04:27.480 So that is the premise, I guess. 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.959 Corey, what are your thoughts on big picture? 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:34.880 How does this play out short-term, medium-term, long-term, 00:04:34.880 --> 00:04:38.480 and what do you expect going forward? 00:04:40.119 --> 00:04:41.399 Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:44.880 I took a little bit more of the positive view 00:04:44.880 --> 00:04:49.000 when I looked at it because there is an aspect of USAID 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:51.359 that did fund, 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:54.679 JD, can we keep it on gallery by any chance? 00:04:54.679 --> 00:04:55.519 Is that possible? 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:58.359 We can, yeah, I can keep it as a thing. 00:04:58.359 --> 00:05:00.920 We're learning this week, ladies and gentlemen. 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:02.480 Yeah, we're figuring it out. 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:07.480 So obviously, Bandar, when I see those sorts of things 00:05:08.200 --> 00:05:09.679 as part of a government program, 00:05:09.679 --> 00:05:12.200 to me, that's just what happens 00:05:12.200 --> 00:05:14.399 when the group in charge for most of the time, 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:16.040 most of the past 20 years, 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:18.359 those are spillover effects 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:20.440 because government has a tremendous amount of inefficiency. 00:05:20.440 --> 00:05:23.239 And one of those inefficiencies is people 00:05:23.239 --> 00:05:26.679 who don't necessarily care about the thing that's going on 00:05:26.679 --> 00:05:30.040 get access to money and then add their thing into it. 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:32.239 There's this prevailing sentiment 00:05:32.239 --> 00:05:37.079 that people, that congressmen show up to Washington 00:05:37.079 --> 00:05:38.399 when they're newly elected and say, 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:41.399 my goal is to get as much money for the thing 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:43.480 that I care about as I possibly can. 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:44.559 And that's what I think DOJ 00:05:44.559 --> 00:05:46.720 is being a really good antidote to. 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:49.399 So I think there's a reasonable conversation 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:50.239 to be had there. 00:05:50.239 --> 00:05:51.880 I think there's also a reasonable conversation 00:05:51.880 --> 00:05:54.079 on the positive side to say that USAID 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:58.279 does fund tuberculosis and malaria and AIDS treatments 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:00.760 in parts of the world that are impoverished. 00:06:00.760 --> 00:06:02.239 So I take it, I try to take it 00:06:02.239 --> 00:06:04.679 from more of a first principles perspective 00:06:04.679 --> 00:06:07.839 and say, what is the US's role 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:09.799 in caring for those people, right? 00:06:09.799 --> 00:06:12.200 And as Christian people, 00:06:12.200 --> 00:06:15.119 we care for the value of every human life. 00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:18.720 Like as, you know, no matter the value, right? 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:19.559 That's the charge. 00:06:19.559 --> 00:06:22.799 And I think that's the differentiator of our faith. 00:06:22.799 --> 00:06:26.760 So I actually, I tried to frame this 00:06:26.760 --> 00:06:30.399 and the way that it came to me 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:32.600 was like a masculine feminine type thing, right? 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:35.640 Where the, when the man abdicates 00:06:35.640 --> 00:06:40.279 a masculine leadership role, responsibility, 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:42.880 the best thing that can happen at that point 00:06:42.880 --> 00:06:45.320 is for someone to encourage the man 00:06:45.320 --> 00:06:47.559 to then step up into that role. 00:06:47.559 --> 00:06:48.959 The worst thing that can happen 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:51.880 is then the woman takes over that role. 00:06:51.880 --> 00:06:54.399 Then they're both done for, right? 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:56.760 Then, you know, then you've flipped the roles. 00:06:56.760 --> 00:06:57.880 And I see it in the same way. 00:06:57.880 --> 00:07:01.079 It's like the church was supposed to take care 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:03.799 of the poor and the sick and the weak. 00:07:03.799 --> 00:07:07.519 And in large, in many cases, it hasn't done that. 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:10.679 And we look to as a culture, as a society, 00:07:10.679 --> 00:07:13.239 we look to government to fill that role. 00:07:13.239 --> 00:07:14.640 That wasn't the solution, right? 00:07:14.640 --> 00:07:16.320 That was never the solution. 00:07:16.320 --> 00:07:17.880 And it was not very effective. 00:07:17.880 --> 00:07:21.720 And it just ballooned up in this road of good intentions 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:23.559 saying, well, if other people, 00:07:23.559 --> 00:07:24.720 if good intentioned people 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:26.480 aren't gonna take care of these people, 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:28.000 we'll just have the government do it. 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:31.519 And it's a silver medal in a way. 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:35.200 It's like, okay, well, it kind of works, 00:07:35.200 --> 00:07:37.760 but it's also completely out of order, right? 00:07:37.760 --> 00:07:39.519 It wasn't ever supposed to be that way. 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:42.359 So in my mind, that misordering, 00:07:42.359 --> 00:07:47.359 that flip of that responsibility completely ruined it. 00:07:47.559 --> 00:07:52.559 So in my mind, it's like this whole endeavor of USAID 00:07:53.880 --> 00:07:56.079 was let's just entrust the people 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:58.519 who can't actually do a very good job taking care of it. 00:07:58.519 --> 00:07:59.480 Let's just entrust it with them. 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:01.279 And then we don't have to think about it anymore. 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:03.440 So I have a lot of criticisms 00:08:03.440 --> 00:08:05.359 about the way that USAID played out, 00:08:05.359 --> 00:08:07.600 but the biggest criticism by far 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.519 is why do we think it was their responsibility 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:10.359 in the first place? 00:08:10.359 --> 00:08:11.920 That shouldn't have ever been their responsibility 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:13.160 because they can't do it. 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:16.079 And then the downstream effect of that, what is it? 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:17.440 How long has USAID been around? 00:08:17.440 --> 00:08:21.839 50 years, something like that, right? 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:23.880 Somewhere around when we left the gold standard, 00:08:23.880 --> 00:08:26.720 when we just outsourced what we were supposed to be doing 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:30.239 as good Christian human people, as men, right? 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:33.000 We should be taking care of the poor, 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:34.400 the weak, the outcast. 00:08:35.359 --> 00:08:39.039 Everything downstream of that is a symptom to me 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:40.640 of that problem, right? 00:08:40.640 --> 00:08:42.640 And then 50 years later, 00:08:42.640 --> 00:08:44.679 you have transgender Sesame Street 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:47.159 in the Arabic world for $20 million. 00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:50.039 And then we all like scream and cry about that. 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:51.640 And we should, like, that's not like, 00:08:51.640 --> 00:08:54.239 I saw all those things, I saw all these reports, 00:08:54.239 --> 00:08:56.640 but to me, it's an original sin. 00:08:56.640 --> 00:08:58.960 It's an original abdication of responsibility 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:00.840 and of saying like, 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:02.599 there should be people taking care of it. 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:05.039 It should not be the US government 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:06.520 because they're terrible at it. 00:09:06.520 --> 00:09:09.719 And to me, that's this big sprawling program 00:09:09.719 --> 00:09:11.359 that just got ended. 00:09:11.359 --> 00:09:12.719 Does any of that make sense? 00:09:12.719 --> 00:09:14.960 I'd love to hear some reactions to that take. 00:09:15.880 --> 00:09:17.080 Yeah, that makes sense. 00:09:19.119 --> 00:09:23.080 Part of it is like, that's its original intention, right? 00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:24.919 We're trying to do this, 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:27.679 but then it like, the original sin, like you're saying, 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:30.239 but then it gets corrupted into the thing that it became, 00:09:30.239 --> 00:09:33.200 which was, oh, I'm gonna, you know what? 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:38.200 I'm going to college for social work. 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:42.200 And I'm gonna work in a homeless nonprofit 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:43.640 that's gonna help homeless people. 00:09:43.640 --> 00:09:45.479 But it's like, oh, well, yeah, 00:09:45.479 --> 00:09:48.559 but how am I supposed to live in LA 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:49.960 where all the homeless people are 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:53.119 with a salary less than $200,000 a year or something? 00:09:53.119 --> 00:09:54.640 And then that just kind of feeds on itself. 00:09:54.640 --> 00:09:57.320 Cause like, oh yeah, well, we're worthy cause, 00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:00.320 we're homeless, we're suiting the homeless or whatever. 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.479 But then it turns into this thing of like, 00:10:02.479 --> 00:10:04.479 this feedback loop of, well, it doesn't matter. 00:10:04.479 --> 00:10:07.200 And now you see in LA, like there's a pushback 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:11.559 because the director of one of LA's homeless programs, 00:10:11.559 --> 00:10:14.119 like brought her husband on and gave them $2 million 00:10:14.119 --> 00:10:15.919 to do essentially nothing. 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:19.679 And it's like, when did that become the culture 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:23.599 of the system that was supposed to help the people? 00:10:24.599 --> 00:10:27.840 I think the homeless issue is an exact proxy 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:29.239 for what we're talking about, right? 00:10:29.239 --> 00:10:32.440 It's like, there are people who are homeless on the street 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:35.119 that should be cared for and should be treated with dignity 00:10:35.119 --> 00:10:38.359 when we outsource that as people to the government. 00:10:38.359 --> 00:10:42.359 And I'm saying like, we all share in that, right? 00:10:42.359 --> 00:10:44.200 If we didn't take care of them, 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:45.840 then we outsource it to the government 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:48.039 thinking they'll take care of them. 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:51.280 And they weren't ever supposed to be able to do that. 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:53.280 That's where it becomes, 00:10:53.280 --> 00:10:55.200 that's where like every downstream effect, 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:57.239 you see all these tweets that are like, 00:10:57.239 --> 00:11:01.039 how much money has Gavin Newsom spent on homelessness? 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:02.760 Hundreds of millions of dollars. 00:11:02.760 --> 00:11:04.520 That was his big thing when he was running. 00:11:04.520 --> 00:11:06.080 I'm gonna fix homelessness. 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:08.239 And it's worse now than when he started. 00:11:08.239 --> 00:11:09.679 So what was the point of the hundreds 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:11.119 of millions of dollars, right? 00:11:11.119 --> 00:11:14.280 So clearly, clearly, and this is where I wanna frame 00:11:14.280 --> 00:11:17.760 the conversation around philosophy, 00:11:17.760 --> 00:11:21.359 around like, who are we as people of God 00:11:21.359 --> 00:11:24.880 and people who have a sense of the dignity 00:11:24.880 --> 00:11:25.960 of the human being? 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:27.280 Who are we as those people? 00:11:27.280 --> 00:11:29.440 Because when we outsource that to the government, 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:31.280 they do not have that by definition. 00:11:31.280 --> 00:11:34.679 They do not, a government cannot look at a person 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:37.119 and say, you are a God-breathed individual. 00:11:37.119 --> 00:11:38.840 I'm gonna take care of you as such. 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:41.919 It's a completely antithetical. 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:44.320 Yeah, they look the exact opposite thing. 00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:45.159 You are my slave. 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:46.640 They look the exact opposite way. 00:11:46.640 --> 00:11:47.479 Worthless. 00:11:47.479 --> 00:11:48.320 You're a number. 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:49.760 They have actuarial tables. 00:11:51.400 --> 00:11:52.239 Exactly. 00:11:52.239 --> 00:11:54.039 They have actuarial tables about the value 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:55.880 of the human life in a dollar amount. 00:11:55.880 --> 00:11:57.080 And we don't have that. 00:11:57.080 --> 00:12:00.000 So to me, I look at all these downstream effects, 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.280 all these symptoms, and they're all ridiculous. 00:12:03.280 --> 00:12:05.559 Yeah, I'm totally on the same page. 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:06.400 It's all ridiculous. 00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:07.400 I'm glad it's ending. 00:12:07.400 --> 00:12:09.159 I'm glad all of that is over. 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.280 I just hope that there's a charge then, 00:12:11.280 --> 00:12:14.039 when it ends, that the value of human life, 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:15.479 the value of human dignity, 00:12:15.479 --> 00:12:18.440 is an important thing to people again. 00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:22.919 I think this is a classic move of evil. 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:25.880 This is like the oldest trick in the book, 00:12:25.880 --> 00:12:30.880 is evil takes advantage of the empathy that people have 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:36.440 and convinces them to do things using their empathy. 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:37.840 We all sound, oh, that sounds great. 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:38.679 Let's fix homelessness. 00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:39.520 Let's do this. 00:12:39.520 --> 00:12:40.359 Let's do that. 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:43.799 And then it just steals all the money 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:45.599 and does whatever the hell it wants to do anyway, 00:12:45.599 --> 00:12:48.320 because we've abdicated our responsibility, 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:50.119 which is another, you know, 00:12:50.119 --> 00:12:52.599 nothing downstream of abdicating responsibility 00:12:52.599 --> 00:12:53.520 is ever good. 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:56.760 But I think more than anything, 00:12:56.760 --> 00:13:00.919 it's like we just have to pay attention to, 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:03.440 you always have to be skeptical when people are saying, 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:04.280 oh, I'm going to do this. 00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:05.119 Give me money. 00:13:05.119 --> 00:13:05.960 I'm going to do that. 00:13:06.880 --> 00:13:11.880 You know, they're going, evil always finds a way 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:15.000 to make what it's doing sound and look good. 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.200 It's as close to good as it can possibly get 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.000 as a defense mechanism and as a camouflage. 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:23.159 And then- 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:24.080 I totally agree with you. 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:25.679 Yeah, go ahead, Bondar. 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:29.039 And then when you actually step back in and say, 00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:31.919 no, no, no, I'm not going to abdicate my responsibility. 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:34.599 I'm going to take responsibility now, 00:13:34.599 --> 00:13:37.599 the knock on effect from there immediately is that, 00:13:37.599 --> 00:13:39.599 that evil you're talking about switch, 00:13:39.599 --> 00:13:41.679 it completely switches and says, 00:13:42.359 --> 00:13:44.200 oh, no, no, no, like the people who are getting defunded 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:49.200 by the lack of funding now are turning around 00:13:50.119 --> 00:13:52.280 and saying, Trump is evil. 00:13:52.280 --> 00:13:54.239 This program was evil. 00:13:54.239 --> 00:13:55.919 Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:57.200 No one's going to support us. 00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:59.159 Like, no, like you will never be able 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:00.320 to take responsibility. 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:04.760 We want the thing, the abdication of responsibility. 00:14:04.760 --> 00:14:07.280 We want that back because our livelihoods 00:14:07.280 --> 00:14:09.159 have been destroyed because of this. 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:11.640 And they do just enough, right? 00:14:12.479 --> 00:14:13.320 Like what you talked about, Corey, 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:15.440 like they're funding these AIDS programs 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:17.280 or whatever these beneficial programs. 00:14:17.280 --> 00:14:18.840 If we really dig into the budget, 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:20.559 and admittedly, I have not, 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:24.239 but they do just a fraction of a percent enough 00:14:24.239 --> 00:14:25.599 that when it gets taken away from them, 00:14:25.599 --> 00:14:27.760 they go, you turned this off, you destroyed these things. 00:14:27.760 --> 00:14:31.599 But it's like, this was 0.001% of the budget 00:14:31.599 --> 00:14:34.599 and you stole the rest, like, you know? 00:14:34.599 --> 00:14:35.440 Yeah. 00:14:37.239 --> 00:14:38.799 No, it's a really important point. 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:41.159 It takes the empathy piece of the budget 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:43.919 and it's, I mean, it's similar to NASA, right? 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:47.559 In a way where like when Elon found a way 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:49.679 to get a rocket profitable, 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:53.080 the cost of a payload went down by like a thousandth, 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:56.400 you know, to like a thousandth of what it was before. 00:14:56.400 --> 00:14:59.719 And that's, I think that's what we need to focus on finding. 00:14:59.719 --> 00:15:02.239 And that's why we're all Bitcoin maxis 00:15:02.239 --> 00:15:04.400 because if you fix the money, you fix the world. 00:15:04.400 --> 00:15:08.280 And to me, tuberculosis becomes a thing of the past 00:15:08.280 --> 00:15:11.280 when you're in a Bitcoin society, right? 00:15:11.280 --> 00:15:13.159 Bitcoin-based society, because, you know, 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:15.200 because it becomes a thing that's competitive 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:17.760 and it becomes a thing that's mutually beneficial. 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.400 So yeah, I don't know that it, yeah. 00:15:22.400 --> 00:15:26.359 We could go deep on where all the money went with USAID, 00:15:26.359 --> 00:15:27.280 but to me, it's just not, 00:15:27.280 --> 00:15:29.000 it's the least surprising thing in the world. 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:32.679 It's empathy leading to theft, like you said. 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:36.080 I got a spicy take on that just to just spice things up. 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:38.400 You're talking about masculinity and femininity. 00:15:38.400 --> 00:15:41.200 You know, it seems to generally speaking 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:42.640 be more of a feminine trait to say, 00:15:42.640 --> 00:15:45.719 hey, I'm going to give you everything 00:15:45.719 --> 00:15:47.200 and more of a masculine trait to say, 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:51.359 hey, I need to teach you how to provide this for yourself. 00:15:51.359 --> 00:15:54.960 And, you know, I think there's another knock-on effect here, 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:56.320 which is to your point, 00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:57.919 what is America's role in the world? 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:00.359 Is it to provide everything to everybody? 00:16:00.359 --> 00:16:01.320 No, it shouldn't be. 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:03.159 It should be to help provide a structure 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:06.000 such that people can provide for themselves. 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:09.960 And I think this ties into a fiat world very, very well, 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.039 because if we could provide everything to everybody, 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:14.039 maybe we should, but we can't 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:16.440 because the money doesn't exist, right? 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:18.359 And this is where we departed reality. 00:16:18.359 --> 00:16:21.719 It's like, if we could completely cure tuberculosis 00:16:21.719 --> 00:16:25.039 and malaria and AIDS, maybe we should do that. 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.919 But we actually don't have the resources 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:29.440 and the capabilities to do that. 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.359 We're just pretending that we do by printing money. 00:16:33.359 --> 00:16:36.200 And that's where I think it's a really pernicious evil. 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:38.000 It's like, yeah, I'd love to be able 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:40.080 to solve all of human suffering. 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.520 That'd be amazing, but we can't. 00:16:42.520 --> 00:16:44.679 So we have to make hard decisions 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:46.799 with the resources that we actually have. 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:48.760 And when we look at USAID, 00:16:48.760 --> 00:16:51.200 were we using the money that we actually had 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:52.840 to fix the ills of the world? 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:53.799 No, not at all. 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:55.039 We weren't doing that at all. 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:58.400 We were literally inventing the value out of nothing 00:16:58.400 --> 00:17:00.880 and impoverishing our own people, 00:17:00.880 --> 00:17:03.799 based around this kind of lofty ideal 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:06.640 that didn't work at all. 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:11.199 So taking all of this in stride, Corey, 00:17:11.199 --> 00:17:16.199 I'm curious about how do you perceive this going forward? 00:17:18.800 --> 00:17:21.959 What are actionable things that people can do, 00:17:21.959 --> 00:17:23.599 that I can do, that you can do, 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:26.640 that actually mitigate what's coming? 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:28.599 Because there's gonna be the pushback that's coming 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:31.920 that evil doesn't wanna give up its power, et cetera. 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:35.880 And it's just gonna restart all over again, 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:37.880 next election cycle, and blah, blah, blah, 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:39.319 and never is it actually gonna be solved. 00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:40.640 It's a big deal right now, 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:43.680 but in six months, it's gonna be less of a big deal. 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.119 Next election cycle, all the people 00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:48.599 who are disenfranchised by this are gonna reorganize, 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:49.439 and they're gonna be like, 00:17:49.439 --> 00:17:51.079 no, we want all this stuff back. 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:52.359 We want the money printer. 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:54.400 We want all the free money again. 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:58.040 We want to not have to work and actually solve problems. 00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:00.959 What do you see as a solution to that? 00:18:00.959 --> 00:18:02.680 That's not just like big picture Bitcoin, 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:05.079 because we know that that's the ultimate solution, 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:10.079 but practically, and also strategically, 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:12.280 how do you go forward? 00:18:13.800 --> 00:18:17.160 Yeah, so I know you want the macroeconomic answer, 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:19.880 but my answer is as micro as it possibly gets, 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:24.040 which is every person has their sphere of responsibility. 00:18:24.040 --> 00:18:26.319 And the only responsibility that I have 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:28.719 over the federal government is a vote every four years. 00:18:28.719 --> 00:18:30.959 That's it, you know? 00:18:30.959 --> 00:18:34.400 And the only responsibility that I have over the poor 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:36.880 is the poor that are brought into my life, right? 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:38.479 The needy that are brought into my life. 00:18:38.479 --> 00:18:40.800 And I think that's like when Jesus says 00:18:40.800 --> 00:18:43.160 the poor will always be with you, 00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:45.719 I think that's really prescient, right? 00:18:45.719 --> 00:18:47.280 He had this vision for the future 00:18:47.280 --> 00:18:49.760 where even as economic tides rise, 00:18:49.760 --> 00:18:53.199 there will still be the bottom 10% of the population 00:18:53.199 --> 00:18:55.719 that is poor and that is sick and that is needy 00:18:55.719 --> 00:18:57.719 and that cannot provide for themselves. 00:18:57.719 --> 00:18:59.920 So he wants the productive people, right? 00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:02.239 When he speaks to the rich, he says, be generous. 00:19:02.239 --> 00:19:03.359 He doesn't say, don't be rich. 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:05.920 He says, be generous, right? 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:07.520 That to me is the responsibility, 00:19:07.520 --> 00:19:09.119 especially if we're Bitcoin maximalists 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.959 and we're over the next couple of years 00:19:11.959 --> 00:19:13.800 finding ourselves in tremendous wealth. 00:19:13.800 --> 00:19:16.880 It's like, that to me is the only responsibility, you know? 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:19.319 And I think there's an interesting conversation 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:20.880 and a fun conversation to be had 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:22.920 about where we think things go. 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:24.920 But I'm talking about like the charge on a man 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:28.640 or the charge on a person in their sphere of responsibility. 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:30.479 That's all our responsibility has ever been, 00:19:30.479 --> 00:19:32.760 no matter what the political conversation has been, 00:19:32.760 --> 00:19:34.880 is to care for the poor and to care for the sick 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:37.800 and to care for the needy, the widows and the orphans, right? 00:19:37.800 --> 00:19:40.599 And there is no government policy 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:44.599 that will ever change that responsibility in my mind. 00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:46.319 And that's the thing about evil, 00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:49.000 which says, I will take care of you. 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.719 You don't have to take care of yourself, I will do it. 00:19:51.719 --> 00:19:53.079 But of course that's a lie. 00:19:55.199 --> 00:19:59.000 We were in my men's Bible study last night. 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:03.479 We were talking about the fact 00:20:03.479 --> 00:20:06.920 that the church has become a cruise ship when, 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:08.520 and that's kind of like the colloquial church, 00:20:08.520 --> 00:20:12.520 like the mission of kind of like churches, 00:20:12.520 --> 00:20:15.479 where the church and the commission from Christ 00:20:15.479 --> 00:20:18.640 and just in general was a battleship. 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:23.439 And I think it's a very interesting thought experiment 00:20:23.439 --> 00:20:26.760 to kind of walk through Bitcoin and money. 00:20:26.760 --> 00:20:28.280 And that same thing is like economies 00:20:28.280 --> 00:20:29.599 kind of became a cruise ship, 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:32.319 kind of became this serve me type thing 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:33.280 where it's like, okay, cool. 00:20:33.280 --> 00:20:35.640 10% of the people on that object 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:37.680 are doing 100% of the work, 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:39.959 which is exactly what we see now, 00:20:40.800 --> 00:20:42.040 where in actuality, 00:20:42.040 --> 00:20:44.640 the way a properly functioning economy should be 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:45.479 is like a battleship. 00:20:45.479 --> 00:20:47.760 Everybody has a battle station that they go to, 00:20:47.760 --> 00:20:51.400 whether you're a janitor or you're, you know, 00:20:51.439 --> 00:20:55.280 freaking loading the guns and making stuff happen. 00:20:55.280 --> 00:20:56.880 You have a purpose, you have a task 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:58.359 and you're not just freeloading. 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:03.239 And I think it's really interesting kind of shifting us 00:21:03.239 --> 00:21:05.359 and this USAID thing kind of coming down 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:09.479 and removing the cruise ship mindset 00:21:09.479 --> 00:21:11.239 that has kind of permeated culture. 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:13.880 Reminds me of something, 00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.000 you were early on when you were talking, Corey, 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.040 the thought propped up for me, 00:21:18.040 --> 00:21:23.040 which is that this has always been a battle of ideas. 00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:27.160 All of this is a war of ideas. 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:31.400 And we're bringing that battle into the physical realm, 00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:32.920 literally and metaphorically. 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:35.719 But at the end of the day, 00:21:35.719 --> 00:21:38.520 all of this comes down to who has the best idea 00:21:38.520 --> 00:21:40.319 and what is the outcome you want 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:42.040 from the idea that you believe in? 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:47.239 You know, and kind of to the point of USAID 00:21:47.239 --> 00:21:49.280 and the propaganda machine like that, 00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:52.680 they've been fighting this idea battle for a long time 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:54.119 and they've been funding the idea battle 00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:55.199 and it's all propaganda 00:21:55.199 --> 00:21:57.239 and that's where they put a lot of this funding 00:21:57.239 --> 00:21:59.920 because they know what the actual war is. 00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:04.920 And, you know, I think really, really understanding 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:07.479 the ideas that you're representing, 00:22:07.479 --> 00:22:11.239 whether it's Christianity or otherwise, 00:22:11.239 --> 00:22:14.280 and knowing that that's where the fight really has to be. 00:22:14.280 --> 00:22:15.640 I think that's important, you know, 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:17.599 and that comes down to media, you know, 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:20.680 that comes down to how you propagate that message. 00:22:22.439 --> 00:22:24.000 You know, and they stole the money to do it 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.479 because it's a bad idea. 00:22:25.479 --> 00:22:27.280 They couldn't get the money organically, 00:22:27.280 --> 00:22:30.000 they had to steal it in order to propagate that idea. 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:34.760 Because it's literally an evil, like purely evil idea. 00:22:34.760 --> 00:22:36.439 Yeah, yeah, 100%. 00:22:36.439 --> 00:22:38.119 And like the truth is always, 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:39.599 the truth is always slowly, 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:41.880 the truth is always behind the lie, you know, 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.160 but it's just a glacier and it's more powerful 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:45.880 and over time it wins. 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:48.680 But, you know, maybe we can close the gap a little bit. 00:22:52.479 --> 00:22:54.880 I was listening to Bill Murray on Rogan, 00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:56.280 I don't know if you guys caught that. 00:22:56.280 --> 00:22:59.520 And Rogan was trying to explain how basically 00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:05.680 these government programs that are meant to help people 00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:08.079 end up incentivizing the thing 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:09.160 that they're supposed to fix. 00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:10.680 Like we were talking about homelessness earlier 00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:12.400 and they were specifically talking about homelessness 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:13.599 in California. 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:16.199 And Bill Murray was like not understanding him 00:23:16.199 --> 00:23:19.479 and he was saying, you think they want homelessness? 00:23:19.479 --> 00:23:22.280 Like there's good people within these organizations 00:23:22.280 --> 00:23:25.959 that are there to help, you know, people who are homeless. 00:23:25.959 --> 00:23:30.199 He's like, yeah, but by it existing, 00:23:30.199 --> 00:23:32.160 money gets put into the system. 00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.959 And the thing that Rogan was missing 00:23:33.959 --> 00:23:36.800 and what you're talking about, the evil aspect 00:23:36.800 --> 00:23:39.439 is there are lots of good people 00:23:39.439 --> 00:23:41.479 who wanna solve these problems, 00:23:41.520 --> 00:23:45.560 but over time, very evil people have gotten themselves 00:23:45.560 --> 00:23:48.520 into the position where they're kind of at the top level 00:23:48.520 --> 00:23:50.479 of these organizations. 00:23:50.479 --> 00:23:52.439 And governments, although local governments 00:23:52.439 --> 00:23:54.119 would probably argue that this is not true, 00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:56.680 but they essentially have infinite money 00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:59.119 because the people who are printing the money 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.400 can just assign budgets to them as, 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:06.800 I mean, use your imagination how big they could possibly be. 00:24:06.800 --> 00:24:10.479 And so if these problems were fixed, 00:24:10.479 --> 00:24:12.400 then that money goes away 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.119 because it's not necessary anymore. 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:15.680 So they're literally incentivized 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:20.680 to keep these problems bad so that money keeps getting put in 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:23.719 and then evil people at the top of these organizations 00:24:23.719 --> 00:24:27.719 basically find ways, whether it's giving a contract 00:24:27.719 --> 00:24:29.160 to a friend, like in my neighborhood, 00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:31.040 we have a tiny home village, 00:24:31.040 --> 00:24:33.239 which is just a bunch of tough sheds that they let, 00:24:33.239 --> 00:24:36.359 you know, people who are drug addicts live in. 00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:40.079 And somebody got the contract for that 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:41.319 to build that tiny home. 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:43.280 Somebody gets a monthly budget 00:24:43.280 --> 00:24:45.599 for how much money is put into that. 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:50.160 And so if they just spend 1% of it to keep this thing going, 00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.119 have people and have demand, 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:55.000 have the homeless people swarming around the neighborhood, 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.920 then really bad people get to continue 00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:01.560 just taking money off the top of that thing forever. 00:25:01.560 --> 00:25:03.800 And so, you know, there's like, 00:25:03.800 --> 00:25:05.000 and there's, it's like hilarious 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:07.839 because I know the place you're talking about, 00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:09.280 and there's literally a tent city, 00:25:09.280 --> 00:25:11.800 like just right up the street. 00:25:11.800 --> 00:25:14.479 Like right up the street, there's still a tent city. 00:25:14.479 --> 00:25:16.719 It's like, come on guys. 00:25:16.719 --> 00:25:21.719 This is exactly that story of British empire in India. 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:23.359 I forget. 00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:24.520 Some, you know, back in the day, 00:25:24.520 --> 00:25:27.280 and they were like, oh, we got this problem with snakes. 00:25:27.280 --> 00:25:30.319 So we'll just pay everybody for every snake they give us. 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:31.800 And so these people just started breeding 00:25:31.800 --> 00:25:33.479 these super poisonous snakes. 00:25:33.479 --> 00:25:34.319 Yeah. 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:37.000 And the problem got a hundred times worse. 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.760 But that's actually a great example because COVID, right? 00:25:40.760 --> 00:25:45.760 Like COVID is a direct response to contagion research. 00:25:47.479 --> 00:25:48.400 That's literally what it is. 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:53.160 COVID was a systemic response to a system 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.199 that was funding gain of function research. 00:25:56.199 --> 00:25:58.439 And so if you're funding gain of function research, 00:25:58.439 --> 00:26:00.520 you're obviously going to go try and find 00:26:00.520 --> 00:26:02.800 the biggest problem you can find, which is, 00:26:02.800 --> 00:26:05.239 hey, can we find a disease that'll kill everyone? 00:26:05.239 --> 00:26:06.880 And it's like, oh yeah, that sounds like a great idea. 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:08.319 They didn't stop to think, 00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:10.760 like Elon has a video that he, you know, 00:26:10.760 --> 00:26:11.599 he went through and he's like, 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:13.880 the biggest problem an engineer has 00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:16.000 is solving the problem that they don't need to solve. 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:17.280 And so that's the issue is it's like, 00:26:17.280 --> 00:26:19.880 you get caught up in the system, which is, 00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:21.119 hey, gain of function research, 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:23.359 people will give me money to do that. 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:25.560 And you don't stop to think, should I be doing this? 00:26:25.560 --> 00:26:26.680 This is actually a good idea. 00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:28.479 And it's great when my camera freezes. 00:26:28.479 --> 00:26:30.239 Always love it when I'm in that way. 00:26:30.239 --> 00:26:31.319 You're going, you're good. 00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:32.319 He ponders out though. 00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:37.359 So Corey was saying that, you know, 00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:40.920 eventually one day as Bitcoin maximalists, 00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:42.359 we're going to have a bunch of money 00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:44.719 that we're going to be able to deploy. 00:26:44.719 --> 00:26:46.520 I don't own any Bitcoin. 00:26:46.520 --> 00:26:50.439 So I'm hoping one day to get to that club, but. 00:26:52.439 --> 00:26:54.719 So these governments, these agencies, 00:26:54.719 --> 00:26:56.400 which by the way, USAID, 00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.439 I'm so glad you guys are calling that, not USAID, 00:26:59.439 --> 00:27:02.719 because it is an agency is the agency for it. 00:27:02.719 --> 00:27:05.160 Well, it was the agency for international development. 00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:07.359 And I would encourage anybody listening to this. 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:08.880 Cause I did this right as we started 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:13.400 to go in the way back machine and put in a USAID. 00:27:14.560 --> 00:27:19.560 It's USAID.gov slash who we are in the USAID history. 00:27:20.560 --> 00:27:23.760 So you can read about it, what it actually was. 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.079 For a long time, these agencies had infinite money 00:27:29.719 --> 00:27:32.359 and they're incentivized to keep all the problems 00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:34.160 in the world, all the poverty in the world, 00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:36.040 as bad as it can possibly be. 00:27:36.040 --> 00:27:37.680 So the money gets piled in and yeah, 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:39.520 you grab a few people who actually want to try 00:27:39.520 --> 00:27:40.959 and solve these problems and you put them 00:27:40.959 --> 00:27:43.000 in like lower level positions. 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:45.880 And then you have however many tens of thousands 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:48.760 of people had million dollar salaries in the DC area 00:27:48.760 --> 00:27:51.520 that just get to keep their lifestyle going. 00:27:51.520 --> 00:27:55.839 Well, at some point as Bitcoin takes over 00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:57.800 as the monetary system, 00:27:57.800 --> 00:28:00.439 as hyper Bitcoinization takes over, 00:28:00.439 --> 00:28:02.319 those, all these governments, 00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:04.359 they're not gonna have infinite money anymore. 00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:06.520 When that bubble bursts, it's gonna burst. 00:28:06.520 --> 00:28:08.959 And then it's gonna be on the individual. 00:28:08.959 --> 00:28:10.280 And like Corey was saying, 00:28:10.280 --> 00:28:12.520 we can't solve all the world's problems. 00:28:12.520 --> 00:28:15.400 We can only solve the problems 00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:17.680 that are within our individual sphere, 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:20.000 within our families, within our own lives. 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:23.760 And at that point, you will need to solve problems yourself. 00:28:23.760 --> 00:28:26.400 Like right now, if there's like a crazy homeless person 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:27.920 wandering my neighborhood, 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:32.439 like I can't just go out and do something about that really 00:28:32.439 --> 00:28:34.719 because there are all of these, 00:28:34.719 --> 00:28:36.439 there's all these organizations, 00:28:36.439 --> 00:28:39.119 there's the police, et cetera. 00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:42.400 And I'm not allowed to go and just, I mean, 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.000 I could do something about it, I guess, 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.439 but you're really not supposed to. 00:28:46.439 --> 00:28:49.479 At some point, there is going to be nobody 00:28:49.479 --> 00:28:52.280 to do anything about the stuff that's happening. 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:56.479 And it is going to be up to us to run our own lives 00:28:56.479 --> 00:28:57.760 and solve our own problems. 00:28:57.760 --> 00:29:00.199 And that's, it's gonna be a great thing. 00:29:00.199 --> 00:29:02.920 It's kind of the way that it really should be. 00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:05.719 And Bitcoin is going to drive that. 00:29:05.719 --> 00:29:09.640 Yeah, and yeah, 100%. 00:29:09.640 --> 00:29:10.479 Do you guys think- 00:29:10.479 --> 00:29:14.040 I mean, it's the way it was before central banking, right? 00:29:14.040 --> 00:29:16.119 It's the way it was for the vast, vast, 00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:17.520 vast majority of human history. 00:29:17.520 --> 00:29:20.319 And we've forgotten in the past 120 years 00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:22.400 since we've been outsourcing that responsibility. 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:24.000 And I think it's honestly, genuinely, 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.719 just because it felt easier. 00:29:25.719 --> 00:29:27.719 It's nicer for someone else to take care of that 00:29:27.719 --> 00:29:29.119 than for me to take care of that. 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:32.239 And that to me is like the central, Zach, 00:29:32.239 --> 00:29:34.239 war of ideas that you were talking about. 00:29:34.239 --> 00:29:35.520 Is it personal responsibility 00:29:35.520 --> 00:29:37.400 or is it collective responsibility? 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:39.439 And if it's collective responsibility, 00:29:39.439 --> 00:29:41.119 and I don't even have to trust someone 00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:43.319 that I know to take care of it. 00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:45.119 I understand collective responsibility 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:46.560 when you're in community with people. 00:29:46.560 --> 00:29:48.319 There's someone who's really good at security. 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:50.239 I want that person at my church. 00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:53.280 I want that person in charge of security 00:29:53.280 --> 00:29:54.880 because I'm not great at security, right? 00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:56.719 And I'm not checking exits when I go in, 00:29:56.719 --> 00:29:57.920 but there's an ex-military guy there. 00:29:57.920 --> 00:29:59.439 I feel better that he's there, right? 00:29:59.439 --> 00:30:01.359 And I also feel better that the pastor 00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:02.199 is a really good pastor. 00:30:02.199 --> 00:30:03.040 You know, whatever those things, 00:30:03.040 --> 00:30:06.040 we all serve our community in our own ways, 00:30:06.040 --> 00:30:07.920 but we've outsourced all of those things 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:09.439 to people that we don't know at all. 00:30:09.439 --> 00:30:10.839 And they've taken that empathy 00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:14.280 and added an enormous amount of money and stolen it. 00:30:15.479 --> 00:30:16.319 Do you guys- 00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:17.160 I wonder- 00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:18.000 Go ahead, J.D. 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.560 It's kind of a question of the same thing though, 00:30:19.560 --> 00:30:22.280 but do you think we will ever reach escape velocity 00:30:22.280 --> 00:30:23.479 from the fiat system? 00:30:23.479 --> 00:30:24.760 Like, it's a black hole 00:30:24.760 --> 00:30:27.040 and it's a very comfortable black hole, 00:30:27.040 --> 00:30:29.959 but do you think we will ever get to proper escape velocity? 00:30:29.959 --> 00:30:34.959 Like, can Bitcoin and just kind of an Austrian-style 00:30:35.560 --> 00:30:38.560 philosophy ever kind of come back about, 00:30:38.560 --> 00:30:41.560 or do you think we're too far down that path? 00:30:41.560 --> 00:30:46.439 I think we're four or five generations out at the earliest. 00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:48.920 You know, we always joke about how early we are. 00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:50.160 Like, I think we're earlier 00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:52.739 than any of us could possibly fathom. 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:54.760 Yeah, that's likely. 00:30:54.760 --> 00:30:56.800 You know, it takes, you know, 00:30:56.800 --> 00:30:58.319 I think of it in generational terms 00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:02.199 because really you have these like 10-year windows 00:31:02.199 --> 00:31:05.199 where the newborn's brains are being wired 00:31:05.199 --> 00:31:07.400 into a particular system. 00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:11.400 And, you know, it's going to be a few rewirings 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:12.920 of society down the line, 00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:15.959 which I think three, four, five generations. 00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:18.000 Kind of tying that, 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.359 one of the things I'll say tying into that though, JD, 00:31:20.359 --> 00:31:22.560 is that, you know, 00:31:23.959 --> 00:31:26.719 there's, the way that I see it right now 00:31:26.719 --> 00:31:28.079 is that Bitcoin needs the dollar, 00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:29.000 the dollar needs Bitcoin. 00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:29.839 I've said this before, 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.160 but Bitcoin is going to allow for the propagation 00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:35.719 of more fiat, I think, 00:31:35.719 --> 00:31:38.119 than any of us could possibly imagine. 00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:41.280 And it'll be somewhat tempered. 00:31:41.280 --> 00:31:42.599 You know, it's not going to be 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:46.479 the ultimate fiat printing extravaganza, 00:31:46.479 --> 00:31:50.359 but as people start to use Bitcoin to borrow against, 00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:51.880 you know, these are two systems 00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:53.280 that are going to kind of use each other. 00:31:53.280 --> 00:31:56.359 And I think that that system's going to take quite a while 00:31:56.359 --> 00:31:58.079 to fully unwind before the dollar, 00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:00.800 before, you know, the dollar supernovas and just dies 00:32:00.800 --> 00:32:03.439 or Bitcoin just absorbs it all and people just abandon it. 00:32:03.439 --> 00:32:05.119 But in the interim, 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:06.920 we're still in this world where a bunch of people 00:32:06.920 --> 00:32:07.839 who have a bunch of money 00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:09.800 are going to be able to create more money, 00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:12.760 more dollars against the Bitcoin that they already have. 00:32:14.719 --> 00:32:16.239 So I guess the question to you guys is, 00:32:16.239 --> 00:32:19.920 do we see that as being positive or negative? 00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.520 I guess it depends on who owns all the Bitcoin 00:32:21.520 --> 00:32:22.400 and what their mentality is. 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.439 But, you know, you could be, you know, 00:32:25.439 --> 00:32:27.359 worth four or $5 billion right now, 00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:30.160 not buy Bitcoin until it's a million or $2 million 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:32.560 and still have more Bitcoin than everybody else. 00:32:32.560 --> 00:32:33.439 Yeah. 00:32:33.439 --> 00:32:34.280 You know? 00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:38.280 Do you... 00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:41.560 I think to your question directly is, 00:32:45.760 --> 00:32:49.079 is it more likely that we escape fiat 00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:52.040 or more likely that we see the inevitable heat death 00:32:52.040 --> 00:32:54.599 of the universe because of nuclear war? 00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:56.199 No, I don't. 00:32:56.199 --> 00:32:57.920 I think we escape fiat. 00:32:57.920 --> 00:32:58.760 Yeah. 00:32:58.760 --> 00:33:01.239 I think it's more likely we escape fiat. 00:33:01.239 --> 00:33:02.199 Yeah. 00:33:02.199 --> 00:33:04.119 There are other things that can happen in between too. 00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:08.719 I mean, the US dollar could lose its reserve status. 00:33:08.719 --> 00:33:11.520 Another currency could just become the reserve currency 00:33:11.520 --> 00:33:13.000 because, I don't know, 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.400 that country just becomes super powerful 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:17.719 or a bunch of countries can get together 00:33:17.719 --> 00:33:19.520 and create some other currency 00:33:19.520 --> 00:33:21.719 or some central bank digital currency. 00:33:21.719 --> 00:33:23.239 And Bitcoin still exists, 00:33:23.239 --> 00:33:25.439 but everybody's starting to use this other thing. 00:33:25.439 --> 00:33:27.719 And that can go on for a really long time too. 00:33:27.719 --> 00:33:29.640 But right now, you know, 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:31.640 just in the time that we've been in, 00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:33.640 well, I guess we've been interacting with Bitcoin 00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:34.520 really since the beginning, 00:33:34.520 --> 00:33:38.280 since all of us were probably like in our late 20s 00:33:38.280 --> 00:33:40.800 to early 30s when Bitcoin was even created. 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:43.719 But right now we're seeing the price 00:33:43.719 --> 00:33:46.640 basically like take a stair step upward. 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:48.640 And there's a good chance that for us 00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:49.640 that'll keep happening. 00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:53.800 So even though hyper-Bitcoinization is going to take place, 00:33:53.800 --> 00:33:56.719 if we have a bunch of Bitcoin and if we hold onto it, 00:33:56.719 --> 00:33:59.560 and if we keep having income in dollars, 00:33:59.560 --> 00:34:03.000 we're probably just gonna generally get wealthy 00:34:03.040 --> 00:34:06.920 way before there's anything close to hyper-Bitcoinization. 00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:09.320 We'll keep having these news events and these crashes. 00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:12.120 And like, it's crazy as it sounds, 00:34:12.120 --> 00:34:15.800 it's very possible that for the rest of our lives, 00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:19.679 our activity in Bitcoin is going to pretty much 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:24.679 follow a similar trajectory that it's taken so far, 00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:26.879 where it's like, yeah, there's big dips, 00:34:26.879 --> 00:34:27.800 there's bear markets, 00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:31.360 but generally our net worth is just steadily increasing. 00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:33.560 But we're not like ruling the world 00:34:33.560 --> 00:34:37.320 or getting citadels in our lifetimes, most likely. 00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.439 Yeah, I think a fair, a few people will, right? 00:34:40.439 --> 00:34:42.080 There's gonna be, there's always a handful of people 00:34:42.080 --> 00:34:44.520 who've got that accumulated at the top. 00:34:44.520 --> 00:34:49.360 And they'll be able to do that. 00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:50.919 But I do think that- 00:34:50.919 --> 00:34:52.000 Speaking of North Korea. 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.800 I do think that, I think that peak centralization 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:57.120 for humanity was post-World War II. 00:34:57.120 --> 00:35:01.520 I think, let's call it 47 to now, roughly, 00:35:01.520 --> 00:35:03.520 or maybe like when that fucking planes 00:35:03.520 --> 00:35:04.639 took off from Afghanistan. 00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:08.939 I think that marked the end of the post-World War II paradigm. 00:35:08.939 --> 00:35:12.219 I think that peak human centralization is totally done. 00:35:13.439 --> 00:35:17.159 And it's gonna be, it's gonna go in waves. 00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:18.360 It's not gonna be linear. 00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:19.860 It's not gonna be all at once. 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.699 But I think that we're on a permanent downtrend 00:35:23.699 --> 00:35:26.540 into a more decentralized planet 00:35:26.540 --> 00:35:28.540 from a power structure perspective. 00:35:28.540 --> 00:35:29.939 What does that look like? 00:35:29.939 --> 00:35:32.080 And Bandar, I want, actually, I want your take on this, 00:35:32.080 --> 00:35:35.780 but walk me out 50, 100 years. 00:35:35.780 --> 00:35:36.820 What does that look like? 00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:41.820 Like, what is peak Bitcoin, you know, Austrian worldview? 00:35:44.379 --> 00:35:46.620 What does it look like in a peak, in peak Bitcoin world? 00:35:46.620 --> 00:35:48.219 Or what does the transition look like? 00:35:48.219 --> 00:35:50.020 I think, let's start with peak. 00:35:50.020 --> 00:35:51.780 Because, and why I think peak is interesting 00:35:51.820 --> 00:35:55.260 is because people are really bad at seeing things 00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:56.219 unless they're shown it. 00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:57.419 It's the whole Steve Jobs thing. 00:35:57.419 --> 00:35:58.340 They're like, don't tell people, 00:35:58.340 --> 00:35:59.659 don't tell somebody what you're gonna make them, 00:35:59.659 --> 00:36:00.699 just show it to them. 00:36:00.699 --> 00:36:03.219 And so I think that's what I'm very curious to see 00:36:03.219 --> 00:36:05.020 is what do you think the peak is? 00:36:05.020 --> 00:36:08.159 Like, what does it look like to send your kids to school? 00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:09.360 Do you send your kids to school? 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:10.580 Like, what does security look like? 00:36:10.580 --> 00:36:11.580 What do nation states look like? 00:36:11.580 --> 00:36:13.540 Like, you know, some of the stuff 00:36:13.540 --> 00:36:16.139 that's covered in The Sovereign Individual, 00:36:16.139 --> 00:36:18.899 you know, like Snow Crash is a dystopian version of that. 00:36:18.899 --> 00:36:21.260 Mandibles is a dystopian version of that. 00:36:21.739 --> 00:36:24.459 Like, what do you think this kind of looks like 00:36:24.459 --> 00:36:26.139 from your perspective? 00:36:26.139 --> 00:36:28.659 Because you're pretty rose colored glasses, I'd say, 00:36:28.659 --> 00:36:32.219 and I'm pretty like the glass with a hole in the bottom. 00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:34.100 I think, this might sound weird, 00:36:34.100 --> 00:36:36.540 but I think it looks a lot like the jungle, you know? 00:36:36.540 --> 00:36:39.179 I think it turns into a very beautiful, 00:36:39.179 --> 00:36:43.179 very integrated, very open system 00:36:43.179 --> 00:36:47.020 that like in the micro can be somewhat dangerous, 00:36:47.020 --> 00:36:50.100 but in the macro, it's a very, very healthy ecosystem. 00:36:50.100 --> 00:36:53.820 You know, I think that we're not going to continue 00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:57.899 to outsource power to large institutions, 00:36:57.899 --> 00:37:00.739 sovereigns or corporations or whatever. 00:37:00.739 --> 00:37:03.739 I think that we become much more, we become much smaller, 00:37:03.739 --> 00:37:04.820 we become much more micro, 00:37:04.820 --> 00:37:07.000 we become much more community oriented. 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:09.860 I think that you start to see subcultures start to flourish 00:37:09.860 --> 00:37:12.020 and get created and survive. 00:37:12.020 --> 00:37:14.500 You know, one of the things about the fiat world we're in 00:37:14.500 --> 00:37:18.340 is that, you know, everything sort of gets washed out 00:37:18.340 --> 00:37:19.600 to being the exact same, 00:37:20.020 --> 00:37:22.360 but I think we end up seeing just much, much, 00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:26.540 much more vibrant, open planet. 00:37:26.540 --> 00:37:30.899 I think travel becomes, I think travel explodes. 00:37:30.899 --> 00:37:33.239 I think that we're able to kind of go in and out 00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:34.840 of wherever we want in the world. 00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:37.000 I think there will be certain areas that are very closed off 00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:38.479 that'll be very closed cultures, 00:37:38.479 --> 00:37:40.739 that'll be very open cultures. 00:37:40.739 --> 00:37:42.760 But I think that people will generally respect 00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:45.120 those ideas and boundaries. 00:37:45.120 --> 00:37:48.239 I think that we're, I think that we're on the precipice 00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:53.239 of like just an explosion of, you know, 00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:59.540 color and vibrancy, for lack of a better descriptor. 00:37:59.540 --> 00:38:01.040 Well, an explosion of, 00:38:01.040 --> 00:38:04.340 and I think the technical term is going to be beauty. 00:38:04.340 --> 00:38:06.199 It's going to be an explosion of beauty. 00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:08.439 And Corey, you've talked about this before. 00:38:08.439 --> 00:38:09.600 Expression, yep. 00:38:09.600 --> 00:38:12.560 Yeah, we have our entire world, 00:38:12.560 --> 00:38:15.419 we've done everything to cut the beauty out 00:38:15.419 --> 00:38:16.939 of our entire world, 00:38:16.939 --> 00:38:19.139 because beauty is not going to pay the rent. 00:38:19.139 --> 00:38:20.179 Beauty is not going to, 00:38:20.179 --> 00:38:23.419 what's the yield on beauty and blah, blah, blah. 00:38:23.419 --> 00:38:25.300 It's just, it's just gone. 00:38:25.300 --> 00:38:27.260 And you look at the architecture, you look at the art, 00:38:27.260 --> 00:38:29.360 you look at the way people treat each other, 00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:31.179 you look at the way they treat themselves. 00:38:31.179 --> 00:38:33.159 It's just, there's no beauty. 00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:34.860 And I think that all of that's coming back 00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:36.620 because beauty and decentralization, 00:38:36.620 --> 00:38:39.000 you can't plan beauty, right? 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:40.820 Like you can't just top down everybody, 00:38:40.820 --> 00:38:43.399 this is what beauty is going to be and what it looks like. 00:38:43.399 --> 00:38:47.159 Yeah, money is the ultimate form of expression. 00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:48.600 There's no better way, 00:38:48.600 --> 00:38:50.439 there's no better tool to express yourself. 00:38:50.439 --> 00:38:53.560 And when the tool is deadened, 00:38:53.560 --> 00:38:57.679 when the tool is not very sharp 00:38:57.679 --> 00:38:58.780 or you can't really use it very well, 00:38:58.780 --> 00:38:59.939 you can't express yourself. 00:38:59.939 --> 00:39:03.560 But when people have a money that can't be debased 00:39:03.560 --> 00:39:06.600 or can't be taxed before it's even entered their wallet, 00:39:06.600 --> 00:39:08.760 human beings will be able to express 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:13.320 their massive diverse range of ideas 00:39:14.040 --> 00:39:14.879 and beliefs. 00:39:14.879 --> 00:39:17.239 And so I think Bitcoin is going to help propagate 00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:20.600 expression to a level that we haven't seen 00:39:20.600 --> 00:39:22.159 or we did see back in the day, 00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:24.600 but none of us have any idea what that even looked like. 00:39:26.600 --> 00:39:27.439 Yeah, I agree with that. 00:39:27.439 --> 00:39:30.280 I'd say like, what are humans preloaded with 00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:31.360 when they're born, right? 00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:33.600 And what is nature versus nurture? 00:39:33.600 --> 00:39:37.239 And this is where I look at the arc of the church 00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:39.899 and I look at the arc of human history 00:39:39.899 --> 00:39:42.800 as it's kind of assaulted Christianity. 00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:46.320 And there've been many heresies that have attacked it. 00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:48.520 But the reason I bring that up 00:39:48.520 --> 00:39:51.639 is the way that Catholics and Protestants 00:39:51.639 --> 00:39:54.959 and Orthodox alike talk about the eternal things 00:39:54.959 --> 00:39:57.419 are beauty, goodness, and truth 00:39:57.419 --> 00:40:01.399 that keep running through the core of humanity. 00:40:01.399 --> 00:40:04.020 And we divert from those things because we're human. 00:40:04.020 --> 00:40:05.479 Each of us do that in our own lives 00:40:05.479 --> 00:40:07.780 that we do it as a community, we do it as a society, 00:40:07.780 --> 00:40:08.959 we do it as a world. 00:40:08.959 --> 00:40:10.760 We divert from those things. 00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:13.479 We get away from truth and beauty and goodness 00:40:13.479 --> 00:40:17.120 to our own peril, but those things necessarily die, right? 00:40:17.120 --> 00:40:18.520 If you divert from those things, 00:40:18.520 --> 00:40:20.840 if you divert from the eternal truths 00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:22.399 of the human experience, 00:40:22.399 --> 00:40:24.320 those things tend toward their own death. 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:26.280 So I don't know exactly what it looks like, 00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:27.760 but from a macro perspective, 00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:29.520 if you depart from beauty, 00:40:29.520 --> 00:40:32.959 whatever that diversion is will tend toward its own death. 00:40:32.959 --> 00:40:34.280 We don't have to kill it. 00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:36.479 We don't even have to, we don't have to do anything for it. 00:40:36.479 --> 00:40:37.780 It will kill itself. 00:40:37.780 --> 00:40:40.239 And then it will return to beauty in a new way 00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:41.719 that hasn't been revealed yet. 00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:43.360 And so that's what I look at. 00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:45.879 And I think Bitcoin plays a role in that. 00:40:45.879 --> 00:40:49.159 I think it's a subservient role to the role of God, 00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:51.879 obviously, but I think it plays an important role 00:40:51.879 --> 00:40:54.760 because I think fiat is, like you said, Vandor, 00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:59.219 is the number one most diversion from beauty 00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:00.840 we've ever seen in human history. 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:03.320 I think central banking and the printing of money 00:41:03.320 --> 00:41:06.659 has diverted us from beauty more than we've ever seen. 00:41:06.659 --> 00:41:08.479 And it will tend to its own death 00:41:08.479 --> 00:41:12.000 and then recenter around truth and goodness and beauty. 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.239 And I think that's just the way of the world, right? 00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:17.000 Whatever role each of us play in that, 00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:18.360 we're accountable to ourselves, 00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:22.479 but I don't see any other way that it can possibly go. 00:41:24.219 --> 00:41:28.919 Yeah, I mean, the dollar has lost 99% of its value 00:41:28.919 --> 00:41:29.760 over a hundred years. 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:33.199 So it's a very impermanent, very short-term thing, 00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:37.840 whereas Bitcoin has the potential to be intergenerational. 00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:41.080 And so theoretically, people will make things beautiful 00:41:41.080 --> 00:41:42.360 and they'll make things to last 00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:46.919 because you have a money that is going to last generations. 00:41:46.919 --> 00:41:50.419 Right now, your money doesn't even last your own lifetime. 00:41:50.419 --> 00:41:53.820 So you just have to get rid of it as quickly as possible. 00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:56.719 Why would you spend any more than you have to 00:41:56.719 --> 00:41:58.320 to build something that's gonna last? 00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:00.760 You just have to get the money out of your hands quickly 00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:02.320 and just get something with it. 00:42:02.479 --> 00:42:06.479 Yeah, yeah, the incentive of, 00:42:06.479 --> 00:42:08.600 you know, from a practical perspective, right? 00:42:08.600 --> 00:42:11.639 Like let's say fiat didn't exist, Bitcoin exists, 00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:14.199 and we allow for a hyper-deflationary economy 00:42:14.199 --> 00:42:16.199 where prices are allowed to fall to their, 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:19.360 as Jeff Booth would say, marginal cost of production. 00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:23.360 If you're not out, you know, essentially slaving away 00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:26.080 40, 50, 60 hours a week, you know, 00:42:26.080 --> 00:42:27.959 worried about subsistence, 00:42:27.959 --> 00:42:30.719 and we allow for the market to do its thing 00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:32.520 and prices to fall dramatically, 00:42:32.520 --> 00:42:37.320 people can spend much, much more time in their life 00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:39.439 focused on building things that are beautiful 00:42:39.439 --> 00:42:41.439 because they're not focused on, you know, 00:42:41.439 --> 00:42:44.479 oh, eggs just went up to $16 this week or whatever. 00:42:44.479 --> 00:42:45.919 So from a practical perspective 00:42:45.919 --> 00:42:47.719 and a deflationary perspective, 00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:50.159 it frees up so much more time 00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:52.600 by allowing the market to do its thing. 00:42:52.600 --> 00:42:54.760 Yeah, exactly, yep. 00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:55.600 Do you guys think- 00:42:55.600 --> 00:42:56.439 Yeah, I totally agree. 00:42:56.439 --> 00:42:59.080 If you look forward at your life and you think about, 00:42:59.919 --> 00:43:01.159 oh, sorry, go ahead, JD. 00:43:02.120 --> 00:43:06.879 Do you think an SBR, Strategic Bitcoin Reserve, 00:43:06.879 --> 00:43:08.120 would, because I'm just looking right here, 00:43:08.120 --> 00:43:09.439 the value of a U.S. dollar 00:43:09.439 --> 00:43:14.439 before the removal of the gold standard in 1971 00:43:14.560 --> 00:43:17.159 was fixed at 20 U.S. dollar, 00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:22.080 20.67 U.S. dollars per troy ounce of gold. 00:43:22.080 --> 00:43:27.080 And then it was changed to $35 in 1933. 00:43:29.959 --> 00:43:32.520 And I'm using that as an example 00:43:32.520 --> 00:43:34.080 because we're talking about things that people made 00:43:34.080 --> 00:43:35.760 and it's like, I still have people I know 00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:38.120 who have like the fridge from the 50s, right? 00:43:38.120 --> 00:43:40.320 And that fridge from the 50s is still fricking kicking 00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:42.040 and doing way better than most of these fridges 00:43:42.040 --> 00:43:44.040 that were made in like 2025. 00:43:45.560 --> 00:43:48.719 Do you think that, you know, 00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:50.679 I guess that's a two-part question, 00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:53.479 was part of this an understanding 00:43:53.479 --> 00:43:56.879 or rather a like subliminal understanding of value? 00:43:56.879 --> 00:43:57.959 Because I'm going to say most people 00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:59.239 just kind of interacted with money. 00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:02.280 They probably didn't have like a deep care or desire for it. 00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:04.239 But like, do you think a lot of it 00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:07.679 was a subliminal understanding of value slash money? 00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:10.879 And do you think an SBR will bring that back? 00:44:12.439 --> 00:44:15.840 I got, I'm not sold on the government 00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:17.439 owning a shitload of Bitcoin 00:44:17.439 --> 00:44:22.439 as solving much practicality wise. 00:44:22.780 --> 00:44:26.360 I think it's necessary to inflate the value of Bitcoin. 00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:29.080 But it's kind of like with Bukele, you know, 00:44:29.080 --> 00:44:30.679 like, you know, that's all cool 00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:31.719 and sounds great and whatever, 00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:35.719 but like you still have a logical, 00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:38.679 meaning like a verbal rather than physical, 00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:40.959 you know, a legal document that says 00:44:40.959 --> 00:44:44.239 somebody has to use it this way or do it this way. 00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:46.840 And that's still, we still, 00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:48.120 that's still a governmental problem. 00:44:48.120 --> 00:44:49.360 That's still a problem of, you know, 00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:51.560 a bunch of lawyers sitting around arguing about shit 00:44:51.560 --> 00:44:54.520 rather than being in the real physical world doing things. 00:44:54.520 --> 00:44:56.159 At $5,000 an hour. 00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:58.199 Yeah, I mean, I'm open to it, 00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:02.000 but I'm just not sure that the government's owning Bitcoin 00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:06.800 really improves anything that we're talking about 00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:09.679 significantly, you know, I don't know. 00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:13.639 Yeah, it creates like a grab from a bunch of governments 00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:16.139 because if the US were to announce it, 00:45:16.139 --> 00:45:18.679 then all these other governments also have to do it, 00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:21.120 which just makes crazy scarcity 00:45:21.120 --> 00:45:24.199 and it makes individual wealth go up. 00:45:24.879 --> 00:45:26.120 And which would, for us, 00:45:26.120 --> 00:45:28.399 it would give all of us a lot more time. 00:45:28.399 --> 00:45:29.239 All of a sudden, 00:45:29.239 --> 00:45:32.679 because if there is an actual strategic Bitcoin reserve 00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:35.520 announced, the price of Bitcoin is going to, 00:45:35.520 --> 00:45:36.879 is going to moon like crazy. 00:45:36.879 --> 00:45:38.800 It's going to go to a million dollars. 00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:39.639 All of a sudden, 00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:41.360 if we have any significant portion of Bitcoin, 00:45:41.360 --> 00:45:43.639 it's going to give us a little bit of breathing room 00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:47.080 to have the time to do some things that we want. 00:45:47.080 --> 00:45:52.080 But the US government having Bitcoin doesn't, 00:45:52.399 --> 00:45:53.959 it just takes it off the table. 00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:55.560 It just makes scarcity. 00:45:55.560 --> 00:45:57.120 It doesn't really do, in my opinion, 00:45:57.120 --> 00:46:00.080 it doesn't really do anything else for Bitcoin adoption. 00:46:00.080 --> 00:46:01.239 It just makes the value go up. 00:46:01.239 --> 00:46:03.560 One thing it does do is that it takes all the people 00:46:03.560 --> 00:46:05.280 who are essentially statists. 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:08.800 It takes them and says, no, no, no, 00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:11.719 you can buy Bitcoin now because the state has bought Bitcoin. 00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:14.320 It like gives Bitcoin a new sense of legitimacy 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.800 to all the people who are totalitarian statists 00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:19.600 who literally can't think and NPC, et cetera. 00:46:19.600 --> 00:46:21.800 So there is that side of it. 00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:24.280 But again, how much is that going to actually, 00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:25.919 these people like literally can't think. 00:46:25.919 --> 00:46:29.760 So how much are they going to go through with this? 00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:30.600 Yeah. 00:46:30.600 --> 00:46:32.239 Honestly, in the short term, I think it's almost nothing. 00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:33.560 I think in the longterm, 00:46:33.560 --> 00:46:35.600 when you start pricing the things 00:46:35.600 --> 00:46:38.320 that government is spending money on in terms of Bitcoin 00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:39.979 and it's on their own balance sheet, 00:46:39.979 --> 00:46:43.919 I think that argument gets a lot stronger over time, right? 00:46:43.919 --> 00:46:46.479 Like if you look at the price of social security in dollars 00:46:46.479 --> 00:46:49.000 and then you look at it in price of Bitcoin 00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:50.879 against the strategic Bitcoin reserve 00:46:50.879 --> 00:46:54.080 and we've had the strategic Bitcoin reserve for eight years 00:46:54.080 --> 00:46:55.719 then you start to see, 00:46:55.719 --> 00:46:58.520 then normies and statists like Bondar was saying, 00:46:58.520 --> 00:47:00.199 normies start to see it, right? 00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:02.439 They start to see like what I saw with real estate. 00:47:02.439 --> 00:47:04.399 When I sold my real estate portfolio and bought Bitcoin, 00:47:04.399 --> 00:47:07.439 it was, I saw the value of my real estate 00:47:07.439 --> 00:47:08.879 just falling against Bitcoin. 00:47:08.879 --> 00:47:11.419 And I was like, why would I hold this? 00:47:11.419 --> 00:47:13.280 And I think that could start to happen 00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:14.679 for more normal people. 00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:19.360 But again, I think that's minimum a 10 year timeframe 00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:22.560 before people would actually start to recognize that 00:47:22.560 --> 00:47:23.939 and take it seriously. 00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:25.840 Yeah. 00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:26.659 Okay, not to derail things, 00:47:26.659 --> 00:47:28.520 but can I hear about that just real quick? 00:47:28.520 --> 00:47:30.280 I've never heard you talk about that before. 00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:32.360 What does it feel like to sell real estate, 00:47:32.360 --> 00:47:35.199 this physical thing that is widely considered 00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:37.580 like the most conservative investment, 00:47:37.580 --> 00:47:39.719 the most, you know, you don't have to worry about it. 00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:41.000 It's just gonna go up forever. 00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:42.959 You're gonna have cashflow. 00:47:42.959 --> 00:47:47.020 What's it like to go from that to Bitcoin for you? 00:47:48.020 --> 00:47:50.780 I mean, have you ever had like everyone meaningful 00:47:50.780 --> 00:47:52.540 in your life disagree with you on a point 00:47:52.540 --> 00:47:54.300 that you were convinced was right? 00:47:55.739 --> 00:47:56.580 Yeah. 00:47:57.419 --> 00:48:00.320 It's kind of, my parents were like, are you serious? 00:48:02.260 --> 00:48:05.139 Cause you know, but again, 00:48:05.139 --> 00:48:06.800 it's just like strength of conviction, right? 00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:09.500 It was just like, I could carry this on. 00:48:09.500 --> 00:48:13.419 I could keep this going, but in five years, 00:48:14.500 --> 00:48:15.500 you know, what's the point? 00:48:15.500 --> 00:48:17.020 You know, and this, you know, this one thing 00:48:17.020 --> 00:48:19.820 takes management, it takes time, it takes energy, 00:48:19.820 --> 00:48:22.379 and it will probably continue to make, 00:48:22.379 --> 00:48:26.060 you know, five to 8% a year, 00:48:26.060 --> 00:48:29.360 but in a higher interest rate environment, why? 00:48:30.820 --> 00:48:33.320 You know, that I was already pretty, you know, 00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:34.899 I was pretty orange pilled by that point. 00:48:34.899 --> 00:48:36.939 I was pretty into Bitcoin at that point. 00:48:38.100 --> 00:48:40.939 So to me, it was a pretty, it was a pretty obvious decision. 00:48:40.939 --> 00:48:43.540 The only real opposition was from people 00:48:43.780 --> 00:48:45.860 who still think in a complete fiat mindset, 00:48:45.860 --> 00:48:48.219 and that honestly kind of made it easier. 00:48:48.219 --> 00:48:50.060 Like every opposition I had to it, 00:48:51.379 --> 00:48:52.699 you know, people that was in my life 00:48:52.699 --> 00:48:54.060 that I was asking about it. 00:48:55.159 --> 00:48:58.379 Whenever the response to the argument for what I want to do 00:48:58.379 --> 00:49:00.620 has nothing to do with the argument, 00:49:00.620 --> 00:49:01.739 it's a pretty good indication 00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:03.500 you're going in a good direction. 00:49:05.459 --> 00:49:09.179 Do you think it's more important to get people on board 00:49:09.179 --> 00:49:12.419 with the idea of adding value 00:49:12.419 --> 00:49:15.459 or more important to get them on to a Bitcoin standard? 00:49:17.739 --> 00:49:20.739 I think that's, I think that's going to be a, 00:49:22.739 --> 00:49:25.320 there's always going to be a particular percentage 00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:27.780 of the population that are productive. 00:49:27.780 --> 00:49:30.459 You know, like it's like Pareto principle, it's like 80-20. 00:49:30.459 --> 00:49:31.979 There's always just a particular amount of people 00:49:31.979 --> 00:49:35.239 who are sort of driven to be productive naturally. 00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:40.219 I think you've got to get those people on board. 00:49:40.899 --> 00:49:42.439 There's a small percentage of people 00:49:42.439 --> 00:49:44.300 that are the most important to get on board. 00:49:44.300 --> 00:49:45.699 You can't focus on everybody. 00:49:45.699 --> 00:49:48.939 You got to focus on the people that move the needle. 00:49:48.939 --> 00:49:50.459 And I think, you know, 00:49:50.459 --> 00:49:52.320 a lot of those people have started to figure it out. 00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:53.500 The kind of entrepreneurial types, 00:49:53.500 --> 00:49:55.020 the people who try to figure that stuff out 00:49:55.020 --> 00:49:56.340 sooner rather than later, 00:49:56.340 --> 00:49:58.379 are kind of on board and continue to get on board. 00:49:58.379 --> 00:50:00.459 So if we have to attack a particular cohort, 00:50:00.459 --> 00:50:03.179 I think it's the people who are just sort of naturally 00:50:03.179 --> 00:50:04.260 want to be productive anyway. 00:50:04.260 --> 00:50:05.540 Because you're not going to, 00:50:05.540 --> 00:50:07.979 it's really, really challenging to teach somebody 00:50:08.860 --> 00:50:12.899 something that appears to me, at least, 00:50:12.899 --> 00:50:15.620 to be sort of inherited or given or innate. 00:50:16.659 --> 00:50:19.100 Or on the, even push that further, 00:50:19.100 --> 00:50:22.780 it's extremely hard to teach somebody something new 00:50:22.780 --> 00:50:25.540 when their paycheck is predicated on them 00:50:25.540 --> 00:50:27.340 never learning that thing. 00:50:27.340 --> 00:50:30.540 Or the famous Upton Sinclair quote, of course. 00:50:30.540 --> 00:50:32.939 Do you, that's actually an interesting thought. 00:50:34.060 --> 00:50:37.500 I just, I'm curious the take on this. 00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:42.500 If paychecks overnight switched to Bitcoin, 00:50:43.260 --> 00:50:46.939 and you're getting paid in deposits of sats, 00:50:46.939 --> 00:50:49.459 in the same way, like secure taxes 00:50:49.459 --> 00:50:52.100 are taken immediately out of your paycheck, 00:50:52.100 --> 00:50:54.419 do you think that would be enough to move the needle 00:50:54.419 --> 00:50:57.100 to get people onto a Bitcoin standard overnight? 00:50:57.100 --> 00:51:00.899 Okay, so if that happens, I can tell you right now, 00:51:00.899 --> 00:51:03.820 so many people make such bad financial decisions 00:51:03.820 --> 00:51:05.459 and are bad investors, 00:51:05.459 --> 00:51:07.340 that the second that the price dipped, 00:51:07.340 --> 00:51:09.820 the people that have massive credit card debt 00:51:09.820 --> 00:51:12.139 and want to keep increasing their lifestyles 00:51:12.139 --> 00:51:14.340 are going to freak out and lose their minds, 00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:16.899 which is probably the majority of Americans right now. 00:51:16.899 --> 00:51:18.459 And then you're going to have a tiny little segment. 00:51:18.459 --> 00:51:20.260 It's like, whoa, the price just dipped. 00:51:20.260 --> 00:51:23.419 I just got a ton more Bitcoin out of this. 00:51:23.419 --> 00:51:25.459 And so that's kind of where we are right now. 00:51:25.459 --> 00:51:27.620 It's like, you know, 00:51:27.620 --> 00:51:29.540 only really the financially responsible 00:51:29.540 --> 00:51:30.899 are the people that can handle 00:51:30.899 --> 00:51:32.899 dollar cost averaging Bitcoin right now. 00:51:33.899 --> 00:51:36.340 JD, I think that there's an underlying assumption 00:51:36.340 --> 00:51:38.300 with the question that says, 00:51:38.300 --> 00:51:41.340 that's kind of like, it's asking the question, 00:51:41.340 --> 00:51:42.179 is there an actual, 00:51:42.179 --> 00:51:44.979 is there a way that we can just like jumpstart this? 00:51:44.979 --> 00:51:49.500 Like, let's go, like actually move the needle on this. 00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:54.260 And as much as I would love there to be that thing, 00:51:54.260 --> 00:51:56.820 I don't know that there is that thing 00:51:56.820 --> 00:51:58.500 or that it could exist. 00:51:58.500 --> 00:52:01.899 I think that having conversations 00:52:01.899 --> 00:52:04.540 just talking, going to meetups, 00:52:04.540 --> 00:52:07.300 like actually sussing out ideas, 00:52:07.300 --> 00:52:10.580 like providing good arguments, refuting bad arguments. 00:52:10.580 --> 00:52:15.419 I think like, it's like, this is a philosophical change. 00:52:15.419 --> 00:52:17.260 It's a philosophical retooling 00:52:17.260 --> 00:52:18.899 of everything you've been learned, 00:52:18.899 --> 00:52:20.580 everything you've learned over your life. 00:52:20.580 --> 00:52:25.580 So like, how does one expect someone to figure that out 00:52:27.179 --> 00:52:28.860 or to go through that process? 00:52:28.860 --> 00:52:30.459 It's not easy. 00:52:30.459 --> 00:52:33.739 I think behavior is always more important than talking. 00:52:33.739 --> 00:52:36.139 And if you go out and you live your life 00:52:36.139 --> 00:52:37.899 and you're productive and you're kind 00:52:37.899 --> 00:52:40.100 and you're generous and you're successful, 00:52:40.100 --> 00:52:42.500 the people who are interested in knowing how that works 00:52:42.500 --> 00:52:44.540 will figure it out and they will ask you 00:52:45.540 --> 00:52:46.979 and they will learn from you. 00:52:48.340 --> 00:52:49.219 Talk is cheap. 00:52:49.219 --> 00:52:52.620 And the second you start getting into arguments 00:52:52.620 --> 00:52:54.419 with people about how things are, 00:52:54.419 --> 00:52:55.780 they start to defend a position 00:52:55.780 --> 00:52:57.659 that may not even be to their benefit. 00:52:58.620 --> 00:53:02.620 So I think that behavior is far and away 00:53:02.620 --> 00:53:05.540 the most important way to convince people of anything. 00:53:09.379 --> 00:53:12.340 Do you, I mean, I'm going to play devil's avocado on this. 00:53:13.459 --> 00:53:15.100 It's a hell of an avocado, dude. 00:53:17.580 --> 00:53:22.020 Are we destined for a world where the Bitcoiners 00:53:22.020 --> 00:53:25.139 have to circle the wagons around the Bitcoiners 00:53:25.139 --> 00:53:26.540 and keep everybody else out? 00:53:27.540 --> 00:53:29.659 Is there a world where we have to? 00:53:29.659 --> 00:53:30.580 Yeah. 00:53:30.580 --> 00:53:31.419 Why? 00:53:31.419 --> 00:53:36.419 Well, $5 wrench attacks and jealousy. 00:53:36.580 --> 00:53:41.580 Like will innate human sin be the bottleneck 00:53:46.379 --> 00:53:47.899 in this war we're fighting? 00:53:47.899 --> 00:53:50.820 Not that, not that innate human sin. 00:53:50.820 --> 00:53:53.780 I think much of the stuff that we're dealing with today 00:53:53.820 --> 00:53:58.820 kind of just has a slow exit, like a $5 wrench attack. 00:53:59.860 --> 00:54:02.939 I mean, yeah, we're still going to see $5 wrench attacks. 00:54:02.939 --> 00:54:04.300 Yeah, we're still going to see physical violence 00:54:04.300 --> 00:54:05.139 and all that stuff. 00:54:05.139 --> 00:54:07.260 But at some point people are going to realize 00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:10.219 that it's just the returns on it are just so low. 00:54:10.219 --> 00:54:13.820 Like because Bitcoin fundamentally is information 00:54:13.820 --> 00:54:16.060 and you can't just like take the gold bar 00:54:16.060 --> 00:54:18.340 and it's mine now, right? 00:54:18.340 --> 00:54:19.860 Like you just can't do that with Bitcoin 00:54:19.860 --> 00:54:22.219 if it's set up and stored correctly. 00:54:22.219 --> 00:54:25.540 So that really does impact all of this stuff. 00:54:25.540 --> 00:54:28.780 Now there's going to be other stuff later on down the line. 00:54:28.780 --> 00:54:31.179 If all of those are sins of self-indulgence 00:54:31.179 --> 00:54:36.179 or violence, me here now, I get what I want, sorry. 00:54:37.459 --> 00:54:39.260 All of that is self-indulgence. 00:54:39.260 --> 00:54:42.060 In the future, the Bitcoin denominated future, 00:54:42.060 --> 00:54:45.699 we're going to have all sorts of self-righteousness problems 00:54:45.699 --> 00:54:49.100 like people who always do the right thing and have no mercy. 00:54:49.100 --> 00:54:51.699 Like that is going to be a big problem. 00:54:51.699 --> 00:54:53.699 Especially outside of Christian circles. 00:54:55.580 --> 00:54:57.060 I think the only way that happens JD 00:54:57.060 --> 00:54:58.899 is if we continue down the path we're going, 00:54:58.899 --> 00:55:03.020 which is a fiat path and you continue to see a massive, 00:55:03.020 --> 00:55:04.979 I think the world that you're talking about 00:55:04.979 --> 00:55:07.100 absolutely happens without Bitcoin. 00:55:09.820 --> 00:55:10.659 For sure. 00:55:10.659 --> 00:55:12.020 We're already seeing signs of that. 00:55:12.020 --> 00:55:13.780 You know, in LA you can now, you know, 00:55:13.780 --> 00:55:15.659 rich people are rolling around with armed security 00:55:15.659 --> 00:55:17.340 that you can order up on an app. 00:55:17.340 --> 00:55:19.139 Like it's bonkers. 00:55:19.139 --> 00:55:24.020 But that's a function of a whole class of people 00:55:24.020 --> 00:55:25.699 who have been left behind by a system 00:55:25.699 --> 00:55:29.100 that has made their life far too difficult and expensive. 00:55:29.100 --> 00:55:32.379 And so they now see that kind of behavior 00:55:32.379 --> 00:55:34.820 as a better risk reward. 00:55:34.820 --> 00:55:37.820 In a Bitcoin world, as prices fall, 00:55:40.820 --> 00:55:41.899 that's not going to be, you know, 00:55:41.899 --> 00:55:42.899 in the ideal version of it, 00:55:42.899 --> 00:55:44.300 that's not going to be the reality we live in. 00:55:44.300 --> 00:55:45.820 People are going to be mostly taken care of. 00:55:45.820 --> 00:55:48.620 To Corey's point, there's always going to be a bottom 10%, 00:55:48.620 --> 00:55:52.219 but, you know. 00:55:53.300 --> 00:55:55.860 Collaboration and conversation will be huge. 00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:57.379 Everyone will be like, wait, 00:55:57.379 --> 00:56:00.219 how can we get on the same page and organize? 00:56:00.219 --> 00:56:01.459 So we're going to have better returns 00:56:01.459 --> 00:56:03.459 if we all organize and try and figure stuff out. 00:56:03.459 --> 00:56:05.300 As opposed to a fiat denominator world, 00:56:05.300 --> 00:56:08.659 which says, wait a second, are you trying to take my, 00:56:08.659 --> 00:56:11.219 like, hey, these are my resources. 00:56:11.219 --> 00:56:12.899 I'm trying to protect these. 00:56:12.899 --> 00:56:15.300 All my resources, I'm losing value all the time, right? 00:56:15.300 --> 00:56:17.340 It's just, it's a totally different mindset. 00:56:17.379 --> 00:56:19.100 Scarcity and abundance, yeah. 00:56:19.100 --> 00:56:20.419 And I don't, honestly, man, 00:56:20.419 --> 00:56:21.780 the overwhelming majority of people 00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:25.060 don't give a flying fuck about wielding monetary energy 00:56:25.060 --> 00:56:27.979 or building a fucking giant business. 00:56:27.979 --> 00:56:28.979 They just want to live their life. 00:56:28.979 --> 00:56:29.939 They want to raise their kids. 00:56:29.939 --> 00:56:32.820 They want to feel loved and they want to be loved. 00:56:32.820 --> 00:56:34.100 Leave me alone. 00:56:34.100 --> 00:56:35.419 Yeah, you know, straight up. 00:56:35.419 --> 00:56:36.979 Goodbye, life. 00:56:36.979 --> 00:56:38.860 You take care of that cohort of people 00:56:38.860 --> 00:56:40.860 by just letting the free market do what it does. 00:56:40.860 --> 00:56:43.860 And, you know, I don't, I don't, 00:56:43.860 --> 00:56:45.659 I don't see that happening in some large degree. 00:56:45.659 --> 00:56:47.860 But if we continue down the fiat path, 00:56:47.860 --> 00:56:48.699 we're continuing down, 00:56:48.699 --> 00:56:51.100 the violence will increase 100%. 00:56:51.100 --> 00:56:53.699 I want to ask one question really quick. 00:56:53.699 --> 00:56:55.419 Can I say something real quick, J.D.? 00:56:55.419 --> 00:56:56.419 Oh, go ahead. 00:56:56.419 --> 00:56:58.899 It just, it kind of bums me out to think about, 00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:04.219 in order for Bitcoin to really succeed and go mainstream, 00:57:04.219 --> 00:57:07.820 then what is now a Bitcoiner 00:57:07.820 --> 00:57:09.300 kind of won't be a thing anymore. 00:57:09.300 --> 00:57:12.540 Like, we still, like, this grouping of people still exist 00:57:12.540 --> 00:57:14.260 and we'll find each other and everything, 00:57:14.260 --> 00:57:16.179 but there will come a day 00:57:16.179 --> 00:57:19.379 when a Bitcoiner is not really a thing anymore 00:57:19.379 --> 00:57:20.899 because Bitcoin's gone mainstream 00:57:20.899 --> 00:57:22.340 and everybody's just using Bitcoin 00:57:22.340 --> 00:57:24.020 and people, no matter what they believe, 00:57:24.020 --> 00:57:26.899 just have it and use it and are benefiting from it. 00:57:26.899 --> 00:57:29.419 Because right now you say the term Bitcoiner 00:57:29.419 --> 00:57:32.500 and you're talking about a personal philosophy 00:57:32.500 --> 00:57:35.060 and a type of person, a personality type. 00:57:35.060 --> 00:57:36.219 It's like, you say Bitcoiner, 00:57:36.219 --> 00:57:38.500 I kind of know what you're talking about, just as it is. 00:57:38.500 --> 00:57:43.179 But as Bitcoin becomes more mainstream and more successful, 00:57:43.179 --> 00:57:44.139 that thing's going to go away. 00:57:44.979 --> 00:57:45.939 It just kind of bums me out. 00:57:45.939 --> 00:57:47.620 How are you seeing- 00:57:47.620 --> 00:57:49.739 Well, it's beginning to become normative. 00:57:49.739 --> 00:57:54.020 Like, just as a USD-er or a fiat, like Maxi today, 00:57:54.020 --> 00:57:55.659 that's just normative culture. 00:57:55.659 --> 00:57:56.500 Right. 00:57:56.500 --> 00:57:57.899 And it's- 00:57:57.899 --> 00:57:59.979 And I actually totally agree with that. 00:57:59.979 --> 00:58:02.020 And it's the same thing with, like, Betamax, right? 00:58:02.020 --> 00:58:04.060 It's like, you don't talk about VHSs anymore. 00:58:04.060 --> 00:58:05.379 We don't talk about CD players. 00:58:05.379 --> 00:58:07.620 You just, you don't talk about MP3 players. 00:58:07.620 --> 00:58:09.260 You just talk about music. 00:58:09.260 --> 00:58:11.780 You talk about the greater thing of, like, 00:58:11.780 --> 00:58:13.699 you know, what are you looking for? 00:58:14.219 --> 00:58:15.739 I'm looking for something to be entertained with. 00:58:15.739 --> 00:58:16.580 That's music. 00:58:16.580 --> 00:58:17.419 What are you looking for? 00:58:17.419 --> 00:58:19.219 I'm not looking for, you know, 00:58:19.219 --> 00:58:20.379 I'm looking for my class of people. 00:58:20.379 --> 00:58:23.139 So the Bitcoiners will be the philosophers, 00:58:23.139 --> 00:58:24.459 the monetary philosophers, 00:58:24.459 --> 00:58:25.500 as people were thinking about that. 00:58:25.500 --> 00:58:29.060 But Corey, I'm very curious in the last bit here, 00:58:29.060 --> 00:58:32.179 like, how do you see, 00:58:32.179 --> 00:58:34.139 because now you're an American in a foreign country, 00:58:34.139 --> 00:58:36.620 and I would say, you know, a lot of people don't realize, 00:58:36.620 --> 00:58:38.179 but Italy is a third world country. 00:58:38.179 --> 00:58:43.179 Like, if you are not aware of anything outside 00:58:43.739 --> 00:58:45.300 of the tourist centers, 00:58:45.300 --> 00:58:50.179 you're pretty blinded to how rough it really is over there. 00:58:50.179 --> 00:58:51.459 And I'm very curious, you know, 00:58:51.459 --> 00:58:54.020 what your experience has been over the past little while. 00:58:54.020 --> 00:58:56.459 Do you think this will break through? 00:58:56.459 --> 00:58:59.020 You know, do you think it's possible 00:58:59.020 --> 00:59:03.620 in a non-Western philosophical worldview 00:59:03.620 --> 00:59:07.219 to kind of, you know, be infiltrated 00:59:07.219 --> 00:59:09.020 with the mind virus that is Bitcoin? 00:59:10.780 --> 00:59:12.340 Well, I would say, JD, 00:59:12.340 --> 00:59:14.300 you and I went to a third world country last year, 00:59:14.300 --> 00:59:16.139 and Italy is not a third world country. 00:59:16.139 --> 00:59:18.139 It has its challenges, 00:59:18.139 --> 00:59:20.100 but they've got running water and concrete floors, 00:59:20.100 --> 00:59:22.379 so, well, marble floors, most of them. 00:59:22.379 --> 00:59:23.580 Second world. 00:59:23.580 --> 00:59:25.020 But I hear what you're saying. 00:59:25.020 --> 00:59:28.100 And I would say that the penetration of Bitcoin 00:59:28.100 --> 00:59:31.340 into these other spheres is very, very low 00:59:31.340 --> 00:59:33.580 from my experience so far. 00:59:34.540 --> 00:59:38.139 And it's interesting because when you and I were in Africa, 00:59:38.139 --> 00:59:41.820 we were presented every day with people 00:59:42.219 --> 00:59:44.860 who desperately need it right now. 00:59:44.860 --> 00:59:47.580 And I think Italy needs it too, 00:59:47.580 --> 00:59:50.179 but they need it a lot less than the people 00:59:50.179 --> 00:59:53.340 that we saw in Togo and Uganda and South Africa. 00:59:53.340 --> 00:59:57.500 And I think that kind of groundswell adoption of it, 00:59:57.500 --> 01:00:00.340 or what was Togo's inflation rate? 01:00:00.340 --> 01:00:03.139 30% a year or something, insane, right? 01:00:03.139 --> 01:00:06.379 The Central African franc is one of the biggest injustices 01:00:06.379 --> 01:00:08.419 in the world that's never talked about ever. 01:00:08.419 --> 01:00:10.540 Those people need it immediately. 01:00:10.540 --> 01:00:12.540 Like they need it today. 01:00:12.540 --> 01:00:16.179 And in Italy, you still have the Euro. 01:00:16.179 --> 01:00:19.219 You have an oppressive government with extremely high taxes, 01:00:19.219 --> 01:00:20.939 an enormous amount of bureaucratic red tape. 01:00:20.939 --> 01:00:22.939 It's crazy hard to start a business, 01:00:22.939 --> 01:00:24.860 but life's still pretty okay. 01:00:26.820 --> 01:00:27.979 They're still eating very well 01:00:27.979 --> 01:00:31.739 and they're surrounded by beauty and history and all of that. 01:00:32.580 --> 01:00:35.260 So I think it'll be... 01:00:35.260 --> 01:00:37.260 I'm fascinated to see how it plays out 01:00:37.260 --> 01:00:39.780 because I think there will be more places like El Salvador. 01:00:39.780 --> 01:00:43.739 I think Argentina is on the way for whatever blips 01:00:43.739 --> 01:00:47.379 and whatever Malay is doing with his crypto nonsense, 01:00:47.379 --> 01:00:51.419 but it's so disappointing, so disappointing. 01:00:52.500 --> 01:00:57.500 But I do think that we all adopted Bitcoin 01:00:58.580 --> 01:01:01.300 and found it fascinating and interesting in the future 01:01:01.300 --> 01:01:04.179 out of abstract thought and philosophy. 01:01:04.179 --> 01:01:06.780 And most people in the world don't get to hang out 01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:08.659 with their friends eating steaks and smoking cigars 01:01:08.659 --> 01:01:10.659 and talking about abstract thought and philosophy. 01:01:10.659 --> 01:01:13.739 That is an unbelievably first world position, right? 01:01:13.739 --> 01:01:15.540 That is a level of wealth. 01:01:15.540 --> 01:01:17.780 Like that experience is a level of wealth 01:01:17.780 --> 01:01:20.060 that most human beings have never known. 01:01:20.060 --> 01:01:22.340 And I think, what I hope anyway, 01:01:22.340 --> 01:01:26.379 is that the global poor recognize this, 01:01:26.379 --> 01:01:28.820 that there is a way out of this 01:01:28.820 --> 01:01:33.459 and desperately want it and adopt it because it's necessary. 01:01:33.459 --> 01:01:36.939 And we see more things like Ukalian, right? 01:01:36.939 --> 01:01:38.100 And coming through the side door. 01:01:38.540 --> 01:01:41.379 And I think if there's gonna be widespread Bitcoin adoption, 01:01:41.379 --> 01:01:45.179 it'll be because those people recognize it 01:01:45.179 --> 01:01:47.379 as the deliverance from poverty 01:01:47.379 --> 01:01:51.500 that has been unavailable to them for basically forever. 01:01:51.500 --> 01:01:53.179 We're about to be talking about that a lot more 01:01:53.179 --> 01:01:56.699 because these countries like Suriname is one of them. 01:01:57.540 --> 01:02:00.939 I forget, she follows my ex, I can't remember her name is. 01:02:02.379 --> 01:02:05.179 She's running to be president of that country. 01:02:05.179 --> 01:02:07.540 A lot of these tiny third world countries 01:02:07.979 --> 01:02:11.260 that don't have access to whatever the eight 01:02:11.260 --> 01:02:14.260 mainstream currencies of the world are that aren't, 01:02:14.260 --> 01:02:15.939 they all inflate, but they don't inflate as bad 01:02:15.939 --> 01:02:17.620 as the Central African franc. 01:02:17.620 --> 01:02:20.139 Those people are gonna start using Bitcoin. 01:02:20.139 --> 01:02:21.340 They're gonna have Bitcoin. 01:02:21.340 --> 01:02:23.179 They're gonna see their wealth increasing 01:02:23.179 --> 01:02:25.659 literally faster than people in Italy. 01:02:25.659 --> 01:02:29.060 And we're going to have a time of massive development 01:02:29.060 --> 01:02:31.459 in countries like we just saw in El Salvador. 01:02:31.459 --> 01:02:34.899 There's gonna be like 50 countries like El Salvador 01:02:34.899 --> 01:02:36.899 over the next 10, 15 years 01:02:36.899 --> 01:02:38.739 that all of a sudden are put on the map 01:02:38.739 --> 01:02:41.659 and start becoming more like first world nations 01:02:41.659 --> 01:02:42.500 because of Bitcoin. 01:02:42.500 --> 01:02:45.820 So while actual hyper-Bitcoinization 01:02:45.820 --> 01:02:47.459 may not happen for generations, 01:02:47.459 --> 01:02:49.739 it kind of will be happening on a smaller scale 01:02:49.739 --> 01:02:52.939 in those third world countries, which is super exciting. 01:02:52.939 --> 01:02:56.860 I wonder, maybe this controversial question, 01:02:56.860 --> 01:03:01.500 but I, you know, sticking to the motif 01:03:01.500 --> 01:03:04.580 of that we're sort of perpetually engaged 01:03:04.580 --> 01:03:08.139 in a war of ideas, will, you know, 01:03:08.139 --> 01:03:10.260 there are certain cultures, I think, 01:03:10.260 --> 01:03:14.219 that might not be compatible with Bitcoin as an idea. 01:03:15.699 --> 01:03:18.020 Now, obviously, you know, money as a tool 01:03:18.020 --> 01:03:20.219 is pervasive across cultures, 01:03:20.219 --> 01:03:25.219 but I wonder if Bitcoin destroys ideas that don't work. 01:03:27.659 --> 01:03:30.060 And by ideas, I mean cultures that don't work. 01:03:30.060 --> 01:03:34.139 Like there may well be cultures that are just not, 01:03:34.659 --> 01:03:37.100 like it doesn't matter if you propagate it into their, 01:03:37.100 --> 01:03:40.419 they're not gonna figure it out from a Western perspective. 01:03:40.419 --> 01:03:41.419 I mean, this is what we believe 01:03:41.419 --> 01:03:43.500 is a better way to live or whatever. 01:03:43.500 --> 01:03:47.739 But I wonder if we'll see, I mean, earlier I was saying 01:03:47.739 --> 01:03:49.780 that I think we're gonna see an explosion of new cultures. 01:03:49.780 --> 01:03:50.860 I think that's totally possible, 01:03:50.860 --> 01:03:54.659 but I wonder if Bitcoin destroys the ones that don't work. 01:03:54.659 --> 01:03:58.139 So yes, absolutely. 01:03:58.139 --> 01:04:01.179 But I think the interesting key there 01:04:02.179 --> 01:04:06.540 is the cultures that don't work under a Bitcoin standard 01:04:06.540 --> 01:04:10.500 are mainstream Western culture today, 01:04:10.500 --> 01:04:13.340 which is totally fiat culture. 01:04:13.340 --> 01:04:14.699 It is a dead end. 01:04:14.699 --> 01:04:17.899 It is a death cult, like a literal death cult. 01:04:17.899 --> 01:04:21.100 It does not work under a Bitcoin standard. 01:04:21.100 --> 01:04:22.379 It does not value beauty. 01:04:22.379 --> 01:04:23.820 It does not value humanity. 01:04:23.820 --> 01:04:26.100 It does not value human life, 01:04:26.100 --> 01:04:28.939 just even absolute basic things. 01:04:29.899 --> 01:04:30.739 It's dead. 01:04:30.739 --> 01:04:32.899 It will not continue. 01:04:32.899 --> 01:04:37.379 And as everyone here, I'm sure will attest, 01:04:37.379 --> 01:04:39.100 we're all out to end it. 01:04:39.100 --> 01:04:43.340 Like literally part of the reason we're here 01:04:43.340 --> 01:04:46.060 is to be like, no, this needs to stop. 01:04:46.060 --> 01:04:49.699 This is a death cult and we're done with it. 01:04:49.699 --> 01:04:51.500 And that's Bitcoin. 01:04:51.500 --> 01:04:52.620 Bitcoin is the replacement. 01:04:52.620 --> 01:04:53.540 Bitcoin will fix it. 01:04:53.540 --> 01:04:57.780 Bitcoin has the whole upside, so. 01:04:58.139 --> 01:04:59.739 Bitcoin is the rising tide. 01:05:01.139 --> 01:05:03.699 I was saying before that it's a bummer 01:05:03.699 --> 01:05:07.379 that the idea of Bitcoiners will kind of go away 01:05:07.379 --> 01:05:09.540 because right now the people with those values 01:05:09.540 --> 01:05:11.340 become Bitcoiners. 01:05:11.340 --> 01:05:16.100 But I will say, as people find Bitcoin 01:05:16.100 --> 01:05:18.860 and learn about Bitcoin, they also become that. 01:05:18.860 --> 01:05:22.179 And that's that thing that will bring the beauty 01:05:22.179 --> 01:05:23.060 back into the world. 01:05:23.060 --> 01:05:26.060 It's kind of like as a naturally occurring thing 01:05:26.060 --> 01:05:27.580 that happens when you have hard money. 01:05:28.260 --> 01:05:30.179 Like if you look at Art Deco in the United States 01:05:30.179 --> 01:05:31.979 or even like the arts and crafts movement, 01:05:31.979 --> 01:05:36.580 these various like pinnacles of design and building 01:05:36.580 --> 01:05:39.939 that were taking place, all those like big projects 01:05:39.939 --> 01:05:42.580 that were happening in the early 1900s, 01:05:42.580 --> 01:05:43.979 that was because of hard money. 01:05:43.979 --> 01:05:45.540 And when we have hard money again, 01:05:45.540 --> 01:05:46.979 those things will start to happen again. 01:05:46.979 --> 01:05:50.300 So it's like the idea of a Bitcoin will go away, 01:05:50.300 --> 01:05:52.340 but the people who are normies right now 01:05:52.340 --> 01:05:54.820 will sort of become something closer 01:05:54.820 --> 01:05:56.739 to what Bitcoiners are. 01:05:57.500 --> 01:06:00.820 It will help them to have a better philosophy of life. 01:06:00.820 --> 01:06:03.540 So it's a positive, no matter what. 01:06:04.580 --> 01:06:07.659 Do you think Bitcoin is gonna bring back 01:06:07.659 --> 01:06:10.979 more Gothic architecture, more Art Deco architecture 01:06:10.979 --> 01:06:12.659 or something completely different? 01:06:13.580 --> 01:06:14.899 All of the above. 01:06:14.899 --> 01:06:18.100 I think the beauty of it is that it's gonna bring back 01:06:18.100 --> 01:06:20.500 what the next generation wants to create. 01:06:21.659 --> 01:06:22.820 I don't think it's gonna bring back 01:06:22.820 --> 01:06:23.780 something that's already been. 01:06:23.780 --> 01:06:25.540 I think it'll be the next thing, 01:06:26.500 --> 01:06:28.699 that's what those cultures wanted. 01:06:28.699 --> 01:06:29.780 And that's one of the beautiful things 01:06:29.780 --> 01:06:31.100 about being in Italy, honestly. 01:06:31.100 --> 01:06:35.139 You can see these things that were built to last forever, 01:06:35.139 --> 01:06:37.419 because it was people that were making things 01:06:37.419 --> 01:06:39.179 out of the conviction of a love of God. 01:06:39.179 --> 01:06:41.300 And like, let's make a house for God. 01:06:41.300 --> 01:06:43.020 Should we make it last for 30 years? 01:06:43.020 --> 01:06:45.820 No, let's make it last for 3000 years. 01:06:45.820 --> 01:06:46.860 And they're still there. 01:06:46.860 --> 01:06:50.340 And they're still like the center of the cities here. 01:06:50.340 --> 01:06:53.260 And that's something so foreign to American culture 01:06:53.260 --> 01:06:56.020 because we started underwriting buildings for 30 years. 01:06:56.020 --> 01:06:58.979 So you literally spent money 01:06:58.979 --> 01:07:01.219 as if it was gonna last for 30 years. 01:07:01.219 --> 01:07:02.780 That's insanity. 01:07:02.780 --> 01:07:03.620 That's crazy. 01:07:03.620 --> 01:07:04.540 That's anti-human. 01:07:04.540 --> 01:07:05.580 That's anti-beauty. 01:07:05.580 --> 01:07:07.100 That's anti-everything. 01:07:07.100 --> 01:07:09.179 I love the idea that like, 01:07:09.179 --> 01:07:11.060 if I have a son and he grows up, 01:07:11.060 --> 01:07:13.260 he's not dealing with any of this. 01:07:13.260 --> 01:07:14.699 That's my encouragement, Anton, 01:07:14.699 --> 01:07:18.179 is like, I hope he never has a conversation like this. 01:07:18.179 --> 01:07:20.540 If I have a son who grows up to my age, 01:07:20.540 --> 01:07:21.860 I hope he's dealing with the next problem 01:07:21.860 --> 01:07:23.780 that the next generation has, 01:07:23.780 --> 01:07:25.100 and we've already solved this one. 01:07:25.100 --> 01:07:26.379 That would be amazing. 01:07:26.379 --> 01:07:27.699 We should be trying to work ourselves 01:07:27.699 --> 01:07:29.419 out of a job in that way. 01:07:29.419 --> 01:07:31.060 So I think that, 01:07:31.060 --> 01:07:33.939 I actually kind of see a trajectory backward 01:07:33.939 --> 01:07:35.979 because for the last 100 years, 01:07:35.979 --> 01:07:37.500 we've basically, you know, 01:07:37.500 --> 01:07:40.300 we peaked at the 1900s in terms of art, 01:07:40.300 --> 01:07:41.939 or 1900, rather, 01:07:41.939 --> 01:07:44.179 in terms of art and architecture and the rest of it. 01:07:44.179 --> 01:07:45.020 And then, you know, 01:07:45.020 --> 01:07:46.020 with the Federal Reserve and everything else, 01:07:46.020 --> 01:07:47.939 it's just kind of gone down. 01:07:47.939 --> 01:07:49.419 But you look around and everyone's like, 01:07:49.459 --> 01:07:50.540 oh yeah, it was beautiful. 01:07:50.540 --> 01:07:53.419 Back in the 50s, it was beautiful. 01:07:53.419 --> 01:07:55.379 Back in the 90s, 01:07:55.379 --> 01:07:57.139 when, oh, America was flourishing, 01:07:57.139 --> 01:07:58.820 had a total aesthetic in the 90s, 01:07:58.820 --> 01:08:00.820 like, I'm gonna go and do that. 01:08:00.820 --> 01:08:02.540 And I think what's gonna happen is that like, 01:08:02.540 --> 01:08:04.620 all of the real terrible things 01:08:04.620 --> 01:08:06.260 are just gonna be, you know, 01:08:06.260 --> 01:08:10.580 torn down and redone for the 50s, 01:08:10.580 --> 01:08:12.419 or for, oh, it's like a, 01:08:12.419 --> 01:08:13.379 it's a post-war, 01:08:13.379 --> 01:08:15.820 we wanted to go for a post-war thing, the 40s. 01:08:15.820 --> 01:08:18.339 Oh, we really wanted to do the arts and crafts thing, 01:08:18.339 --> 01:08:19.180 the 30s. 01:08:19.939 --> 01:08:20.779 But then what's gonna happen is, 01:08:20.779 --> 01:08:22.299 Corey, is exactly what you're saying. 01:08:22.299 --> 01:08:24.299 People are gonna go back to those things 01:08:24.299 --> 01:08:26.580 and then they're gonna get in those patterns again. 01:08:26.580 --> 01:08:28.859 And then it's gonna start accelerating 01:08:28.859 --> 01:08:31.339 towards new innovation, new art, 01:08:31.339 --> 01:08:36.020 new architecture, new trends, new culture. 01:08:36.020 --> 01:08:36.859 And that's- 01:08:36.859 --> 01:08:38.060 Yeah, humans will do what they do best. 01:08:38.060 --> 01:08:40.700 We have to reconnect to what we lost 01:08:40.700 --> 01:08:43.779 before we can launch forward. 01:08:43.779 --> 01:08:45.620 Yeah, yeah, we'll do what we do best, 01:08:45.620 --> 01:08:48.580 which is continuously blend ideas 01:08:48.620 --> 01:08:50.379 to create new things, 01:08:50.379 --> 01:08:53.020 take two old things to create a new thing. 01:08:53.020 --> 01:08:55.540 I think it's gonna be dope, personally. 01:08:55.540 --> 01:08:56.379 Oh, yeah. 01:08:56.379 --> 01:08:59.580 Do you, Bondor, wanna give us the final question 01:08:59.580 --> 01:09:01.779 you want us to kind of go around the horn 01:09:01.779 --> 01:09:03.459 and answer as we wrap it up? 01:09:04.500 --> 01:09:06.060 Might have to think of a question first. 01:09:06.060 --> 01:09:07.859 Do you have one, J.D.? 01:09:07.859 --> 01:09:09.459 I do have one. 01:09:09.459 --> 01:09:11.620 Maybe to just kind of go with that is like, 01:09:11.620 --> 01:09:14.020 what is the thing you want to see built 01:09:14.020 --> 01:09:15.220 on a Bitcoin standard? 01:09:15.339 --> 01:09:20.339 What is this piece of art that you hope to see? 01:09:21.060 --> 01:09:23.540 For me, I've always, the second I became a Bitcoiner, 01:09:23.540 --> 01:09:25.620 the first thing I wanted to see was a Bitcoin cathedral. 01:09:25.620 --> 01:09:28.259 And I don't mean a cathedral built towards Bitcoin, 01:09:28.259 --> 01:09:32.459 but I mean, I want to see, 01:09:32.459 --> 01:09:35.540 and I'd love to be a part of the thinking 01:09:35.540 --> 01:09:39.299 and the commissioning of a thousand-year cathedral. 01:09:39.299 --> 01:09:42.180 It's like this thing, or a hundred-year cathedral, 01:09:42.220 --> 01:09:47.220 it's like this thing is going to take 100 years to build 01:09:48.100 --> 01:09:49.899 and hopefully last for a thousand. 01:09:49.899 --> 01:09:51.140 Like, that's what I would love to see. 01:09:51.140 --> 01:09:54.740 It's just, and in my case, it would be as a testament 01:09:54.740 --> 01:09:57.939 to Christ and the amazing stuff 01:09:57.939 --> 01:09:58.939 that he's kind of done in my life. 01:09:58.939 --> 01:10:00.020 But that's what I'd love to see, 01:10:00.020 --> 01:10:01.899 is like the return to that and the building of that. 01:10:01.899 --> 01:10:03.620 Where it's gonna be, I have no idea, 01:10:03.620 --> 01:10:05.020 but I'd love to see that. 01:10:05.540 --> 01:10:10.540 For me, I'd say urbanism that's beautiful, vibrant, 01:10:11.779 --> 01:10:14.140 safe, and lovely, and beautiful. 01:10:14.140 --> 01:10:17.500 Like, just right now, our urbanism is, 01:10:17.500 --> 01:10:20.459 you basically graduate high school or college, 01:10:20.459 --> 01:10:22.379 you move to an urban city center, 01:10:22.379 --> 01:10:27.379 you debauch yourself for the next 10, 15 years of your life, 01:10:27.540 --> 01:10:29.259 you finally meet somebody, 01:10:29.259 --> 01:10:30.700 and then you guys move to the suburbs, 01:10:30.700 --> 01:10:33.100 and that's what urbanism is. 01:10:33.140 --> 01:10:35.299 That's what urbanism is. 01:10:35.299 --> 01:10:39.339 And really, most of human existence 01:10:39.339 --> 01:10:41.660 was you were born in a city, 01:10:41.660 --> 01:10:43.700 you lived your entire life in the city, 01:10:43.700 --> 01:10:45.660 you got married, had kids in the city, 01:10:45.660 --> 01:10:48.939 grew old in the city with your kids just around you 01:10:48.939 --> 01:10:50.100 and everyone else around you, 01:10:50.100 --> 01:10:53.939 because it's just a vibrant human community. 01:10:53.939 --> 01:10:58.939 Every single, like, Corey, every single town in Italy 01:10:59.859 --> 01:11:01.979 is predicated on that idea. 01:11:02.140 --> 01:11:04.020 There's no, like, oh, I'm gonna drive 01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:08.859 to my suburban house 25 miles away to see my kids. 01:11:08.859 --> 01:11:10.500 It's like, no, it's like, 01:11:10.500 --> 01:11:12.140 I mean, today it's different, of course, 01:11:12.140 --> 01:11:15.140 but all these cities were built with that in mind. 01:11:15.140 --> 01:11:18.819 I would love to see that come back to fruition. 01:11:22.500 --> 01:11:24.180 We talked about Frank Lloyd Wright 01:11:24.180 --> 01:11:27.020 on an earlier one of these, 01:11:27.020 --> 01:11:30.419 and for me, there's no reason 01:11:30.459 --> 01:11:32.660 except for really wealthy people, 01:11:33.500 --> 01:11:36.779 there's no reason to design your own home 01:11:36.779 --> 01:11:39.379 and make a really, really beautiful structure 01:11:39.379 --> 01:11:40.819 for you to live in. 01:11:40.819 --> 01:11:43.060 And on a Bitcoin standard, 01:11:43.060 --> 01:11:46.419 I think that dream is going to be something 01:11:46.419 --> 01:11:49.419 that a lot more people can save towards, 01:11:49.419 --> 01:11:53.500 and they can, Frank Lloyd Wright also had this idea 01:11:53.500 --> 01:11:54.939 of a thing called the Broadacre City, 01:11:54.939 --> 01:11:57.660 which is kind of what you're talking about, too, Bondura, 01:11:57.660 --> 01:11:59.220 is like an idea of urbanism. 01:11:59.220 --> 01:12:00.819 It's essentially like a blueprint 01:12:00.819 --> 01:12:03.180 for what the suburb has become, 01:12:03.180 --> 01:12:07.580 except that people's property could produce the food 01:12:07.580 --> 01:12:10.779 that they ate, they could run their businesses from it, 01:12:10.779 --> 01:12:13.100 and they could have a really, really beautiful home 01:12:13.100 --> 01:12:17.220 on their property, and it all was kind of cohesive together. 01:12:17.220 --> 01:12:20.540 And in my mind, when we have hard money again 01:12:20.540 --> 01:12:23.339 and people can save and think about, like, 01:12:23.339 --> 01:12:26.459 a thing that they're going to pass on to the generations, 01:12:26.459 --> 01:12:28.819 they're going to build really, really beautiful 01:12:28.819 --> 01:12:31.020 and productive homes for themselves, 01:12:31.020 --> 01:12:33.779 and they won't be these cookie-cutter developments, 01:12:33.779 --> 01:12:37.660 and they won't be, you know, shitty apartment buildings. 01:12:37.660 --> 01:12:39.620 They're going to be something closer 01:12:39.620 --> 01:12:42.899 to what the ideal of, like, a Frank Lloyd Wright house was. 01:12:50.899 --> 01:12:52.459 Are we going around the horn? 01:12:52.459 --> 01:12:53.939 Yeah, you go, Corey. 01:12:53.939 --> 01:12:56.979 Yeah, I mean, to me, it's beauty generally, 01:12:56.979 --> 01:13:00.140 but as it plays out in art, 01:13:00.140 --> 01:13:04.339 I want creators looking toward the future 01:13:04.339 --> 01:13:08.180 rather than speaking toward the immediate cultural moment, 01:13:08.180 --> 01:13:09.580 and that, to me, is the difference 01:13:09.580 --> 01:13:13.419 in high-time preference and low-time preference thinking. 01:13:13.419 --> 01:13:15.140 And obviously, my interaction is mostly 01:13:15.140 --> 01:13:18.100 with writers and directors, 01:13:18.100 --> 01:13:20.500 but I want visual art and architects, 01:13:20.500 --> 01:13:21.620 like you guys are saying, 01:13:21.620 --> 01:13:24.020 and I want filmmakers, obviously. 01:13:24.020 --> 01:13:26.459 I want them looking out into the future 01:13:26.459 --> 01:13:28.500 and thinking, what is the cultural thing 01:13:28.500 --> 01:13:30.060 that I can respond to today 01:13:30.060 --> 01:13:33.379 that's going to be responsive in 100 years, right? 01:13:33.379 --> 01:13:36.540 I love the Flannery O'Connor quote. 01:13:36.540 --> 01:13:38.379 I would rather have one reader in 100 years 01:13:38.379 --> 01:13:40.259 than 100 readers today. 01:13:40.259 --> 01:13:44.779 I want all creators thinking that way all the time. 01:13:44.779 --> 01:13:47.620 You know, I think I want the general incentive 01:13:47.620 --> 01:13:50.220 for the artists of our community to be, 01:13:50.220 --> 01:13:52.020 what is the thing that lasts? 01:13:52.020 --> 01:13:56.740 And that, I think, has been eroded over the past 120 years, 01:13:56.740 --> 01:13:58.540 and I think we can get that back 01:13:58.540 --> 01:14:01.459 because that's how creators want to think, 01:14:01.459 --> 01:14:03.100 and we've prevented them from doing that 01:14:03.100 --> 01:14:05.899 with horrendous monetary policy. 01:14:07.500 --> 01:14:08.979 Yeah, totally agree. 01:14:08.979 --> 01:14:09.939 Totally agree on all fronts. 01:14:09.939 --> 01:14:12.060 I'd like to see all of this, for sure. 01:14:13.259 --> 01:14:15.419 I think, to your point, Corey, 01:14:15.419 --> 01:14:20.419 I agree my focus is primarily on expression, 01:14:20.580 --> 01:14:25.580 and I think that there are these, 01:14:28.660 --> 01:14:31.540 the context of our time is always unique, 01:14:32.819 --> 01:14:35.819 but there's always the thread that we can look to 01:14:35.819 --> 01:14:38.500 to get us through the context of our times. 01:14:38.500 --> 01:14:42.379 We can look towards the things that are universal and true 01:14:42.379 --> 01:14:44.500 from the deepest human perspectives, 01:14:44.500 --> 01:14:48.540 and artists occupy this really, really unique 01:14:48.540 --> 01:14:49.779 and really, really interesting space 01:14:49.779 --> 01:14:54.779 where they have to be masters of both. 01:14:55.459 --> 01:14:57.979 They have to be masters of the context of their time 01:14:57.979 --> 01:15:00.819 as well as understanding these universal stories 01:15:00.819 --> 01:15:04.339 that get humans from 2,000 years ago to today. 01:15:05.620 --> 01:15:08.540 So, you know, I mean, that's a shameless plug here, 01:15:08.540 --> 01:15:09.899 but that's really, I think, 01:15:09.899 --> 01:15:12.339 what I'm trying to do with Indie Hub 01:15:12.339 --> 01:15:16.700 is to create a structure that allows for artists 01:15:16.700 --> 01:15:19.339 to focus on their artistry and on their craft 01:15:19.339 --> 01:15:21.859 and filmmakers to focus on telling stories. 01:15:21.859 --> 01:15:23.700 And, you know, I think that those stories 01:15:23.700 --> 01:15:28.700 are necessarily contextual and necessarily of the time, 01:15:28.700 --> 01:15:32.660 but as long as they have the ability and the time 01:15:32.660 --> 01:15:37.660 to afford to intertwine that eternal universality to things, 01:15:39.259 --> 01:15:40.700 then you start to see really, really, 01:15:40.979 --> 01:15:43.220 really great works pop up. 01:15:43.220 --> 01:15:47.180 So I guess the answer, JD, is to build a structure 01:15:47.180 --> 01:15:52.180 that allows for human beings to express themselves, 01:15:53.540 --> 01:15:56.220 you know, in both contexts to the fullest extent, 01:15:56.220 --> 01:15:58.339 to the fullest extent of their capability. 01:16:02.259 --> 01:16:03.100 That's great. 01:16:03.100 --> 01:16:05.060 Anything else, Bandwar, you want to touch on 01:16:05.060 --> 01:16:08.020 before we round out today? 01:16:08.740 --> 01:16:13.740 I think this is awesome that we got all the guys together. 01:16:15.819 --> 01:16:17.220 So I appreciate it. 01:16:17.220 --> 01:16:19.299 And we'll be seeing you all around. 01:16:21.220 --> 01:16:26.220 Go ahead and slap that extraordinarily loud. 01:16:26.859 --> 01:16:28.580 Roll that beautiful beat. 01:16:29.939 --> 01:16:32.740 Do we have a YouTube channel right now, by the way? 01:16:32.740 --> 01:16:34.419 Do we have Better Buy Bitcoin? 01:16:34.419 --> 01:16:35.459 I just applied for it, 01:16:35.459 --> 01:16:37.740 and you have to wait 24 to 48 hours before you can stream. 01:16:38.379 --> 01:16:40.660 Next week, we'll have YouTube running. 01:16:40.660 --> 01:16:41.500 Awesome. 01:16:41.500 --> 01:16:44.899 And then let us know if any of the 30 plus people watching, 01:16:44.899 --> 01:16:46.379 if you want to see this daily, 01:16:46.379 --> 01:16:48.339 if you want to see us kind of break these things out 01:16:48.339 --> 01:16:50.939 based on kind of our areas of expertise. 01:16:50.939 --> 01:16:52.740 We have Bandwar on the software side. 01:16:52.740 --> 01:16:53.779 We have Corey and Zach 01:16:53.779 --> 01:16:57.700 on the kind of like business side of entertainment. 01:16:57.700 --> 01:17:01.979 And then we have Anson on the feature film side 01:17:01.979 --> 01:17:04.500 of like the creator piece, just like being in there 01:17:04.500 --> 01:17:06.259 and like being a, you know, 01:17:06.259 --> 01:17:08.500 having the number 30 documentary in the world, 01:17:08.500 --> 01:17:09.779 kind of a big thing. 01:17:09.779 --> 01:17:11.779 And then also just be on ads. 01:17:11.779 --> 01:17:14.939 So, you know, let us know if you think that's interesting. 01:17:14.939 --> 01:17:16.540 Cause we think all this stuff is interesting 01:17:16.540 --> 01:17:18.100 and we think you're interesting 01:17:18.100 --> 01:17:19.180 and we think we're interesting. 01:17:19.180 --> 01:17:20.899 So, you know, hey, let us know. 01:17:20.899 --> 01:17:22.379 Maybe, maybe it could be something. 01:17:22.379 --> 01:17:23.979 It could be fun. 01:17:23.979 --> 01:17:25.979 ♪ Got a good thing coming ♪ 01:17:25.979 --> 01:17:28.180 ♪ And it's all I need ♪ 01:17:28.180 --> 01:17:29.819 ♪ Everything I wanted ♪