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Welcome back to the episode of
the Startup Therapy Podcast.

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This is Ryan Rutan,
joined as always by my

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friend, the founder,
and CEO of startups.com.

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Will Schroeder will founders
are probably the only people

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I know who can work 80 hours
a week, beat the odds just to

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exist and still feel behind why.

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Because our expectations are
unhinged, man, like today.

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Let's spend some time talking
about like the single fastest

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way to improve founder happiness
and decision making, which

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is just some recalibration.

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Yeah.

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Like if you go back in time,
like how reasonable were

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your expectations when you
entered the startup space?

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I gotta say, maybe by accident
I started with such low

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expectations going into my
startup career, like, and I'm

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gonna get into some detail
just so folks can really

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appreciate that when I say
this, but I started with

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such low expectations that
any kind of forward progress

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was like holy home run.

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So to give you an idea where I
was, by the time I had started

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my first company, mind you,
I'm 19, I'm in college at that

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time, my thing, I was living in
the, in the dorms at Ohio State.

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My thing was I would
write your term paper.

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Oh yeah.

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Whatever your term
paper would be.

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Um, on, on literally any topic
in under a half hour, which is

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bananas for the cost of a pizza.

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If you would buy me a
Papa John's pizza, it was

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like $10 Uhhuh, like that.

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That was my going rate
for my consulting output.

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Now the irony was I had
never written a term paper

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of my own in my life.

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Right.

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But I was just a good
writer, so I knew how

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to write Flower reward.

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Yep.

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I'll write for other people.

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Exactly.

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It was always way
better than that

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person.

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Write for great rates, but
I'll, I'll write for pizza.

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Right, right.

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And so, uh, anyway,
that's where I was at.

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And you know, it's funny
we should say that 'cause

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we've told the story before
where like, I had built

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a website for ribs for
a $500 gift certificate,

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uh, for a rib place.

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I did mine for a $1,500 tab at
Victorian's Midnight Cafe, which

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never expired because I think
it was, and it never expired.

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I think they forgot to
track it at some point.

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'cause I was just like,
three years later I'm like.

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I'm just thinking about the
price of a grilled cheese.

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I must have eaten 500 of
these things at this point.

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There's no way I still have
money left with these guys.

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There is definitely a time,
it's funny that you and I were

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basically selling into the same
local, uh, small business pool

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of Columbus, Ohio back then, and
there was a time where, where

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I, uh, walked into a restaurant,
it was Damon's, the place

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for ribs, and I'd convinced
the, uh, manager to let us

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build a, uh, website for them.

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This was like in 96 and
uh, in exchange for this

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$500 tab, right, for food.

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And I remember going back to
the office and explaining to

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the team that I had just sold a
website for $500 of rib value.

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Yeah.

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And it was a high five fest.

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Everyone was so pumped up,
like they could not believe

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we could make rib money.

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Rib

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money, uh, with
our capabilities.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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'cause you could see that
story going the other way.

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Like at this point, like
you, you founders hearing

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this, they're like, oh.

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He goes back and he tells
the team and they're like,

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it's Jack coming home and
telling his mom he sold the

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cow for three magic beans.

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Right.

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Uh, no sir. Food is food.

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No, it was, it was slower.

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So I say this to say to, to
put some color around this.

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That was my level
of expectations.

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Now, the funny thing to
that, this is like circa 96,

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going in 97, a year later,
in one of the most dramatic

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turn of events ever, we
would have one of the most.

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The biggest agents lopsided
agency wins in history.

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Uhhuh, we won a quarter
billion dollar a year piece

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of business that would enable
us to go public years later.

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A of right.

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That's a

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lot of ribs.

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And I remember when I was
up there, I was up there on

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stage 'cause this is like
back then big agency pitches.

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But I remember being up there on
stage at Eli Lilly, uh, that we

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were pitching in Indianapolis.

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Thinking, I'm pitching
Lily right now, and this

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is a multi-billion dollar,
like top of the food chain

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Fortune 500 business.

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But like nine seconds
ago, yeah, I was selling

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these same services.

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Yeah.

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For a $500 gift card,

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I had to wash a barbecue sauce
off my hands from the ribs I

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just ate for my last paying gig.

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Uh, it's amazing.

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But here's why we're
talking about this.

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We're talking about it
because when founders go

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into this business, the
business of startups, I

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think our expectations
are so incredibly broken.

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Yeah.

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And they're so malformed so
many times that when we get get

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into this business, we start
building these businesses,

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we are wildly disappointed.

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Yeah.

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And, and I think
it's a broken setup.

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It is.

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I think that's why
it's so important to

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talk about this today.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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It's, it's not just that our
expectations are wrong, it's

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like, okay, so what, like.

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When I think about it, our
happiness is really just kind

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of a math problem, and it's
reality divided by expectations.

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Right?

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Right.

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When we get that, we get
the denominator wrong.

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It causes a lot of trouble,

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and I tell people all
this all the time.

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I said, your happiness
is proportionate to

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your expectations.

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That's it.

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If your expectations were
sky high, you're likely not

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happy because you weren't
able to achieve that.

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Yeah.

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Now, I'm not saying let's all
go for super low expectations

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just so we can be happy.

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There's a calibration
to be had here, right?

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Sure.

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But that's what
we'll talk about.

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And I think for a lot of
folks, there's an entitlement

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that comes with this.

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I think that's part of it,

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and we'll talk through that.

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Like, you know, what
are you not entitled to?

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What are you entitled
to, et cetera.

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Yeah.

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But I think overall, if I
look back on, you know, a

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30 year plus career, the
highlight of everything has

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been, whenever I achieved
something, it was so much

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more than I felt entitled to.

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And we'll talk about
this, but I have a strong

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feeling about entitlement.

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Right.

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And so for me, you are
entitled to what you earn.

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Yeah.

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Again, we'll talk about that.

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Yeah.

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But I think that for me, I
always felt like when I earned

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something, I was over the moon
because I'd never thought I

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was actually gonna get it.

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Right.

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If anything, Ryan.

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If I look back, and I have
many countless memories of

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this, I kept waiting for
the other shoe to drop.

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Sure.

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I think to this day, I still am.

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Right?

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30 years later,

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30

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years later, I'm still
waiting for someone to,

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to come and it all the

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way.

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Somebody coming to tell
me none of that was real.

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You can't have any of that.

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Give it back.

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I'm going to tell
you a quick story.

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About a year or two after
we won that big pitch, I,

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um, I bought a Lamborghini.

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No, I remember it.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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I, uh, I went in the dealership
and I got so hosed over this

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thing, like, it was, I, I was
like maybe 25, I don't remember.

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And, and I remember I went
into the dealership and the

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finance manager, you know,
has me in his office and he's

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like, you know, in price of
the car, blah, blah, blah.

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And I, at the time, I didn't
know anything about car

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leases, which is ironic
considering I'd be a CEO

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of a car leasing company.

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But, uh, but anyway, he's
like, and your payment will

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be like $6,500 a month.

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You're like, deal.

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Just

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pause on that.

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Yep.

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My mortgage at that
point was $1,475 a month.

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Yes.

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Right.

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To give you an idea of,
of like the disparity here

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and rates weren't all that
good back then, right?

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No.

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And, and, and I had no credit.

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Right.

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I was so young.

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Right.

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And so I remember my
rate on that was like 9%.

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Just like expensive
car, insane rates.

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'cause nobody was financing
a 25-year-old back then.

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Right.

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And I remember a buddy
of mine from back home in

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Connecticut was with me at
the time to do this deal.

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And he was like, are
you out of your mind?

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And I was like, honestly, dude.

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I probably have this thing for
three months and they repo it.

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Right.

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There's, there's no way
a guy like me right.

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Is ever gonna be able
to, onto This's, gonna

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make, yeah.

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I'm not gonna have to worry
about what tires cost.

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We're not gonna get that far.

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I was like, it doesn't, I'm
gonna make a difference because

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there's no way I'm ever gonna
be able to hold onto this.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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And I just, but it goes
back to my expectations.

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Yeah.

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My expectations were this is
way beyond what I deserve.

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Yeah.

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And so when it didn't get
repoed, like amazed, right?

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Yeah.

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Feels great.

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It feels great.

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And so I have always
been very mindful of not

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only my expectations, but
everyone else's as well.

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And I think where this starts,
and I wanna dig into this first,

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what I call the snowflake myth.

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The snowflake myth is basically
saying, I'm a special snowflake.

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I'm gonna start a company and
it's gonna become IPO, you

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know, Uber, Amazon, or whatever.

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Right?

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I deserve that.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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How do you think about when
you talk to founders, do

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you see the snowflake myth?

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I do, and I think it comes
from a couple of places.

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I want to talk about
expectations and optimism.

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Okay.

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So I think that there is a
required degree of optimism

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when we're founding something
because it doesn't exist yet.

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We have to be optimistic
that we can figure out the 8

255
00:08:24,375 --> 00:08:27,780
million problems that we know
about in the 15 million that

256
00:08:27,780 --> 00:08:28,830
we haven't thought about yet.

257
00:08:29,219 --> 00:08:29,460
Right.

258
00:08:29,550 --> 00:08:31,800
And generally speaking, I
don't think that founders

259
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,360
suffer from a lack of optimism.

260
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:34,559
I think we suffer.

261
00:08:35,085 --> 00:08:36,735
From unpriced optimism.

262
00:08:36,765 --> 00:08:37,005
Right?

263
00:08:37,005 --> 00:08:39,615
And that's where those
expectations Love that phrase.

264
00:08:39,615 --> 00:08:39,625
Yeah.

265
00:08:39,625 --> 00:08:39,675
Yeah.

266
00:08:39,675 --> 00:08:40,515
Come into play.

267
00:08:40,695 --> 00:08:44,595
So I think that this is where
things start to go wrong,

268
00:08:44,865 --> 00:08:47,625
and I think that somehow we
confuse those unreasonable

269
00:08:47,625 --> 00:08:49,635
expectations with that optimism.

270
00:08:49,995 --> 00:08:52,875
And when those two things start
to get conflated, then all of a

271
00:08:52,875 --> 00:08:55,485
sudden what seemed like, okay,
this is what's gonna drive us.

272
00:08:55,485 --> 00:08:57,105
This is gonna be the
force, this is our vision.

273
00:08:58,005 --> 00:09:00,765
Unreasonable expectations
aren't motivation.

274
00:09:00,855 --> 00:09:03,315
They're, they're self-sabotage
at some level, right?

275
00:09:03,315 --> 00:09:05,835
They push bad decisions
and then they punish you

276
00:09:05,985 --> 00:09:07,665
for just achieving what
you were otherwise going

277
00:09:07,665 --> 00:09:09,645
to achieve anyways and
should have been happy with.

278
00:09:09,885 --> 00:09:11,925
And so I think that's
where this begins for me,

279
00:09:12,255 --> 00:09:15,645
and there's a lot of this in our
world, in the startup community.

280
00:09:15,645 --> 00:09:16,155
I mean, it's.

281
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,500
Infiltrated with it at
every possible level.

282
00:09:18,530 --> 00:09:18,650
Yes.

283
00:09:18,655 --> 00:09:18,815
Right?

284
00:09:18,815 --> 00:09:19,015
Yes.

285
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,760
So one of them is the defacto
that when I go to raise money,

286
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,670
I've gotta be able to show
investors that this could be

287
00:09:25,670 --> 00:09:26,870
that snowflake opportunity.

288
00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:27,110
That's

289
00:09:27,110 --> 00:09:27,170
it.

290
00:09:27,170 --> 00:09:27,260
Right?

291
00:09:27,260 --> 00:09:27,980
I've gotta show them that.

292
00:09:27,980 --> 00:09:31,610
It could be the, the big IPO,
but I've run the numbers on this

293
00:09:31,610 --> 00:09:34,550
every year just to see if, if
this number has changed, but

294
00:09:34,550 --> 00:09:36,350
essentially the probability.

295
00:09:36,765 --> 00:09:38,595
You'll be able to get
a company to the public

296
00:09:38,595 --> 00:09:40,785
market versus the number of
people that start companies.

297
00:09:40,875 --> 00:09:41,055
Yeah.

298
00:09:41,055 --> 00:09:44,084
In just the US alone,
which is by far the most

299
00:09:44,084 --> 00:09:51,345
fervent market, where you're
probable to do it is 0.000.

300
00:09:52,155 --> 00:09:56,204
3%. That's the probability that
you're gonna do what you said

301
00:09:56,204 --> 00:09:59,655
you're going to do, and there's
150 companies a year that do it.

302
00:09:59,685 --> 00:10:02,415
Adding that percent to the end
of it made it hurt a lot worse.

303
00:10:02,415 --> 00:10:03,855
Will that added two more zeros?

304
00:10:03,855 --> 00:10:04,995
I thought we were just a

305
00:10:07,814 --> 00:10:08,415
not enough zeros.

306
00:10:08,415 --> 00:10:08,650
That really sucks.

307
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,745
Yeah, it's a lottery ticket
with a pitch deck attached.

308
00:10:11,985 --> 00:10:15,944
The reason we start here is so
we can just use hard economics.

309
00:10:16,814 --> 00:10:18,945
It's like when somebody says,
I wanna grow from be president,

310
00:10:19,005 --> 00:10:20,325
you're not going to Right.

311
00:10:20,595 --> 00:10:22,785
Well, I can you, you
can, but you will not.

312
00:10:23,085 --> 00:10:23,355
Right?

313
00:10:23,385 --> 00:10:23,445
Yeah.

314
00:10:23,445 --> 00:10:25,035
Like, or I wanna
play in the NBA.

315
00:10:25,395 --> 00:10:27,075
You can, but you will not.

316
00:10:27,345 --> 00:10:29,415
When people hear me say
that, it pisses 'em off.

317
00:10:29,625 --> 00:10:33,045
They were like, how, how
dare you question someone's

318
00:10:33,045 --> 00:10:34,665
ability, you know, to whatever.

319
00:10:34,935 --> 00:10:37,035
And I'm like, look,
I'm not saying, I don't

320
00:10:37,035 --> 00:10:38,025
hope you get there.

321
00:10:38,325 --> 00:10:38,655
Right,

322
00:10:38,715 --> 00:10:39,045
right.

323
00:10:39,165 --> 00:10:40,814
And I'm not saying don't try.

324
00:10:41,175 --> 00:10:41,325
Right.

325
00:10:41,325 --> 00:10:43,725
What I'm saying is don't expect,

326
00:10:43,755 --> 00:10:44,220
don't expect it.

327
00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:45,390
Right.

328
00:10:45,630 --> 00:10:46,589
That's the danger.

329
00:10:47,010 --> 00:10:47,069
Yeah.

330
00:10:47,069 --> 00:10:50,189
Because when you set
the expectation, you

331
00:10:50,189 --> 00:10:52,410
then are are accountable
to the failure of it.

332
00:10:52,709 --> 00:10:52,890
Okay.

333
00:10:52,890 --> 00:10:53,310
Yeah, you are.

334
00:10:53,459 --> 00:10:56,130
I mean like, and I think maybe
I should have said aspiration

335
00:10:56,130 --> 00:10:57,329
before when I said optimism.

336
00:10:57,329 --> 00:10:58,920
I think optimism plays
a role in this too,

337
00:10:59,219 --> 00:11:00,479
but aspiration is fine.

338
00:11:00,854 --> 00:11:02,114
Aspiration is fuel.

339
00:11:02,354 --> 00:11:02,655
Right?

340
00:11:02,655 --> 00:11:05,594
But expectation becomes
this debt, this blocker.

341
00:11:05,954 --> 00:11:06,375
Exactly

342
00:11:06,464 --> 00:11:06,824
what I was, I was gonna

343
00:11:06,824 --> 00:11:06,944
use

344
00:11:06,944 --> 00:11:07,484
the word debt.

345
00:11:07,550 --> 00:11:07,839
Yeah,

346
00:11:07,844 --> 00:11:08,295
yeah.

347
00:11:08,415 --> 00:11:09,704
It becomes a debt, right.

348
00:11:09,704 --> 00:11:12,885
And I think that hope is
fine, but certainty in

349
00:11:12,885 --> 00:11:14,114
most cases is delusion.

350
00:11:14,114 --> 00:11:15,405
You can't be certain
about anything, and I

351
00:11:15,405 --> 00:11:16,755
think that's expectations.

352
00:11:17,165 --> 00:11:18,574
Based in certainty, right?

353
00:11:18,875 --> 00:11:21,574
I should have this, therefore
I will have this right.

354
00:11:21,574 --> 00:11:23,854
I want this and therefore
I, I will get that.

355
00:11:23,854 --> 00:11:25,535
And that's just not the
way this thing works.

356
00:11:25,714 --> 00:11:27,995
And look, on the one hand,
I love the fact that the

357
00:11:27,995 --> 00:11:30,185
snowflake myth exists because
the idea that, you know,

358
00:11:30,185 --> 00:11:32,944
we're all special in some
way is wonderful, right?

359
00:11:32,944 --> 00:11:33,905
I think that's wonderful.

360
00:11:34,564 --> 00:11:37,114
However, the difference
in the startup world.

361
00:11:37,844 --> 00:11:39,944
What you just said,
it becomes a debt.

362
00:11:40,064 --> 00:11:42,314
And here's specifically the
moment it becomes a debt.

363
00:11:42,854 --> 00:11:45,314
When you go to an investor
and say, give me money

364
00:11:45,675 --> 00:11:48,015
in exchange, I'm going to
give you back this return.

365
00:11:48,135 --> 00:11:50,114
You know, this return
being the IPO, et cetera.

366
00:11:50,114 --> 00:11:50,505
Yeah, yeah.

367
00:11:50,505 --> 00:11:53,354
And now you owe that
expectation when you give

368
00:11:53,354 --> 00:11:54,689
stock options to your staff.

369
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:58,860
Right now you owe
them that expectation.

370
00:11:58,980 --> 00:11:59,220
Yeah.

371
00:11:59,310 --> 00:12:00,240
That locks it in.

372
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,410
And we're in a world exactly
where it changes the calculus.

373
00:12:04,650 --> 00:12:04,770
Yeah.

374
00:12:04,770 --> 00:12:07,230
Because you are accountable
to that expectation.

375
00:12:07,260 --> 00:12:07,650
That's it.

376
00:12:07,860 --> 00:12:09,930
One of the things that I
think, Ryan, we've done

377
00:12:09,930 --> 00:12:13,410
well@startups.com, is
we are very incremental

378
00:12:13,410 --> 00:12:14,490
in those expectations.

379
00:12:14,699 --> 00:12:14,910
Right?

380
00:12:14,915 --> 00:12:14,944
Yeah.

381
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:17,400
You know, uh, we look at
the expectations and say, we

382
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,590
would love to get to that,
you know, to that point,

383
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:21,210
oh oh, oh, you know, 3%.

384
00:12:22,020 --> 00:12:23,100
However,

385
00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:23,550
yeah,

386
00:12:23,819 --> 00:12:25,650
here are the other
milestones that would

387
00:12:25,650 --> 00:12:27,030
also make us very happy.

388
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:27,870
That's it.

389
00:12:27,870 --> 00:12:31,199
Like being profitable, making
payroll, you know, crazy stuff.

390
00:12:31,620 --> 00:12:34,530
And I think because of
that we don't tie up.

391
00:12:34,860 --> 00:12:39,030
All of our happiness to a
likely incalculable goal.

392
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:39,630
Right.

393
00:12:39,630 --> 00:12:41,370
And again, to your point,
doesn't mean we're not,

394
00:12:41,370 --> 00:12:42,420
we're not aiming for that.

395
00:12:42,510 --> 00:12:42,810
Right.

396
00:12:42,810 --> 00:12:43,080
My right.

397
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,300
I have to, I have to bring
back my dad's quote, which

398
00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:47,700
was, you know, aim for
the moon, clear the fence.

399
00:12:47,940 --> 00:12:48,090
Yep.

400
00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:48,330
Right?

401
00:12:48,330 --> 00:12:51,270
Like it's fine to have that
aspiration, but you still

402
00:12:51,270 --> 00:12:52,410
gotta put in the work.

403
00:12:52,710 --> 00:12:54,630
And I think the minute
you replace, we're going

404
00:12:54,630 --> 00:12:56,880
to be a unicorn within a
year or two, we're gonna

405
00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:58,440
earn our next three wins.

406
00:12:58,930 --> 00:13:01,330
All of a sudden you're actually
gonna start to make progress

407
00:13:01,330 --> 00:13:03,040
because they don't think that
anybody knows what it actually

408
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:04,480
means to go be a unicorn.

409
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:04,870
Like what?

410
00:13:04,875 --> 00:13:06,640
What exactly is the
checklist to get to that?

411
00:13:06,910 --> 00:13:10,090
Whereas go get next three
clients has a checklist.

412
00:13:10,090 --> 00:13:11,410
We know what to
do to go do that.

413
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:11,860
Right,

414
00:13:11,950 --> 00:13:12,190
right.

415
00:13:12,190 --> 00:13:13,780
Well, and let's
separate these two.

416
00:13:13,780 --> 00:13:15,850
'cause I think this is
where folks may be missing

417
00:13:15,850 --> 00:13:17,680
the point aspiration.

418
00:13:18,375 --> 00:13:18,645
Yep.

419
00:13:18,944 --> 00:13:20,175
And expectation.

420
00:13:20,324 --> 00:13:20,415
Yes.

421
00:13:20,415 --> 00:13:21,555
They're not the same thing.

422
00:13:21,555 --> 00:13:22,125
Not the same at all.

423
00:13:22,125 --> 00:13:23,324
Aspiration is where
I'd like to go.

424
00:13:23,324 --> 00:13:25,755
Expectation is where I,
where I expect to go.

425
00:13:25,845 --> 00:13:26,055
Yep.

426
00:13:26,265 --> 00:13:26,535
Right?

427
00:13:27,045 --> 00:13:28,635
Aspiration is it might happen.

428
00:13:28,755 --> 00:13:32,295
Expectation is it
better happen right now.

429
00:13:32,505 --> 00:13:34,335
It doesn't have to
be one or the other.

430
00:13:34,605 --> 00:13:36,465
For example, I can say this.

431
00:13:36,824 --> 00:13:38,625
I would like my company
to be a unicorn.

432
00:13:38,939 --> 00:13:39,209
Right.

433
00:13:39,209 --> 00:13:39,270
Yeah.

434
00:13:39,479 --> 00:13:39,719
Cool.

435
00:13:39,719 --> 00:13:40,800
That's my aspiration.

436
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:41,550
Nothing wrong with that.

437
00:13:41,550 --> 00:13:43,140
We're, we're not knocking that.

438
00:13:43,979 --> 00:13:47,849
The difference is we're saying,
but right now I need to get

439
00:13:47,849 --> 00:13:50,189
to the company where it makes
a thousand dollars a month.

440
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:50,760
That's it,

441
00:13:50,819 --> 00:13:51,030
right?

442
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:51,209
Yep.

443
00:13:51,270 --> 00:13:53,910
My expectation is I, this
thing has to get to a thousand

444
00:13:53,910 --> 00:13:54,780
dollars a month of revenue.

445
00:13:55,439 --> 00:13:57,870
It's the equivalent of saying,
I need to score a home run.

446
00:13:58,229 --> 00:14:00,510
But saying, but don't you
want get on first base first?

447
00:14:00,510 --> 00:14:00,569
Yeah.

448
00:14:00,569 --> 00:14:00,750
Nope.

449
00:14:00,780 --> 00:14:01,979
Just want, just want home runs.

450
00:14:02,010 --> 00:14:02,160
Yeah.

451
00:14:02,189 --> 00:14:02,520
Right.

452
00:14:02,939 --> 00:14:06,329
It doesn't quite work like
that, but here's the difference.

453
00:14:06,564 --> 00:14:08,875
When we say, Hey, if we get
to a thousand dollars a month

454
00:14:08,875 --> 00:14:10,735
in revenue, which again I know
is peanuts, which is why I'm

455
00:14:10,735 --> 00:14:13,585
using that number, it's not that
we pack our shit and go home.

456
00:14:14,605 --> 00:14:17,064
It's that like, okay, this
is what a thousand dollars

457
00:14:17,064 --> 00:14:19,105
buys us, doesn't buy us, you
know, not paying our salaries

458
00:14:19,105 --> 00:14:19,975
or anything else like that.

459
00:14:19,975 --> 00:14:19,985
Right.

460
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:21,840
It's proven the
market a little bit.

461
00:14:21,870 --> 00:14:25,140
It gets us, you know, to product
market fit maybe, and it allows

462
00:14:25,140 --> 00:14:27,540
us to start playing the, does
it scale game a little bit?

463
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:28,020
Yeah,

464
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:29,790
but that's an expectation.

465
00:14:29,790 --> 00:14:31,860
My expectation right now is
I just wanna make payroll.

466
00:14:31,950 --> 00:14:33,630
My expectation right
now is I just wanna

467
00:14:33,630 --> 00:14:34,530
get product market fit.

468
00:14:34,740 --> 00:14:38,190
My expectation right now is
just, I wanna make enough

469
00:14:38,190 --> 00:14:41,640
money that I'm getting
paid more than my last job.

470
00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:45,330
Like to me, those are very
reasonable expectations.

471
00:14:45,705 --> 00:14:46,035
Right.

472
00:14:46,335 --> 00:14:48,405
Even if the aspiration is,
you know, shoot for the moon.

473
00:14:48,675 --> 00:14:49,425
Yeah, and that's the thing.

474
00:14:49,425 --> 00:14:52,185
You can have really, really
high aspirations and then

475
00:14:52,185 --> 00:14:55,305
simply just base the work
around practical things to get

476
00:14:55,305 --> 00:14:56,535
towards that, that outcome.

477
00:14:56,895 --> 00:15:00,465
When do you think that dreaming
becomes most dangerous?

478
00:15:00,465 --> 00:15:01,125
What are the triggers?

479
00:15:01,125 --> 00:15:02,115
Is it fundraising?

480
00:15:02,115 --> 00:15:05,115
Is it hiring, social comparison
with other, with other startups?

481
00:15:05,115 --> 00:15:06,675
Where do you think this
starts to go off the rails?

482
00:15:06,975 --> 00:15:08,295
I think it starts with time.

483
00:15:08,939 --> 00:15:10,770
And you know, you and I
deal with this all the time

484
00:15:10,770 --> 00:15:12,060
when we're working with
folks and we deal with it

485
00:15:12,060 --> 00:15:13,109
in our own expectations.

486
00:15:13,260 --> 00:15:13,500
Sure.

487
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,630
I think founders, because
they don't understand how

488
00:15:15,630 --> 00:15:18,180
this business works very
well, why would you probably

489
00:15:18,180 --> 00:15:18,989
doing it for the first time?

490
00:15:19,380 --> 00:15:21,930
This stuff takes a lot longer
than people think it does.

491
00:15:22,410 --> 00:15:22,890
Yep.

492
00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:26,699
The myth around time, of course,
is that, oh, well within a

493
00:15:26,699 --> 00:15:29,910
year we'll have product market
fit, or the month we launch,

494
00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:32,550
we'll know right away whether
the product's working, which

495
00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:34,770
is works, never, or you know.

496
00:15:35,125 --> 00:15:37,345
Within a year we'll be
profitable, or within two years,

497
00:15:37,345 --> 00:15:39,385
you know, we'll have raised
our next round, et cetera.

498
00:15:39,865 --> 00:15:42,805
I was like, look man, I've been
doing this for over 30 years.

499
00:15:42,805 --> 00:15:42,895
Yep.

500
00:15:42,925 --> 00:15:44,395
It does not work

501
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:44,690
like that.

502
00:15:44,690 --> 00:15:45,010
Doesn't work.

503
00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:47,125
You know what I've started to
do Will, every time I hear these

504
00:15:47,125 --> 00:15:50,875
numbers from founders, I just
apply dog years math to it.

505
00:15:50,875 --> 00:15:53,230
I'm like, okay, just I think
you multiply by seven the first

506
00:15:53,230 --> 00:15:54,235
year six, this ain't right.

507
00:15:54,475 --> 00:15:57,205
Just like that's the
sad reality of it.

508
00:15:57,565 --> 00:16:00,835
My rough math that I always
use for people is what I call

509
00:16:00,835 --> 00:16:01,855
the three x rule of time.

510
00:16:02,250 --> 00:16:02,699
Mm,

511
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,370
however long you think it's
gonna take, just multiply

512
00:16:05,370 --> 00:16:06,480
it by at least three.

513
00:16:07,170 --> 00:16:07,380
Yeah,

514
00:16:07,439 --> 00:16:08,939
and I'll give you a,
a couple of things.

515
00:16:09,150 --> 00:16:13,020
When I ask people how fast did
it take, the fastest growing

516
00:16:13,020 --> 00:16:16,260
companies to get to the level
they're at, Uber was one of

517
00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:17,250
the fastest growing companies.

518
00:16:17,250 --> 00:16:18,569
A lot of people didn't realize
LinkedIn was one of the

519
00:16:18,569 --> 00:16:19,350
fastest growing companies.

520
00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:19,560
Yeah, it was.

521
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,060
Google was one of the
fastest growing companies.

522
00:16:21,060 --> 00:16:21,210
Right?

523
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,660
I mean, these are the best
of the best of Airbnb, right?

524
00:16:25,140 --> 00:16:25,920
Total juggernaut.

525
00:16:26,220 --> 00:16:28,560
Do you know the time it took
those companies to get to to

526
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,180
IPO was all over 10 years.

527
00:16:30,330 --> 00:16:30,600
Yeah.

528
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:30,960
Right.

529
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:31,590
Every one of them

530
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:31,920
passed

531
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:32,430
the decade

532
00:16:32,430 --> 00:16:33,210
before getting to ipo,

533
00:16:33,210 --> 00:16:36,300
growing companies
in frigging history.

534
00:16:36,390 --> 00:16:36,570
Yeah.

535
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:37,710
Right now, but

536
00:16:37,710 --> 00:16:39,450
somehow five years is your plan.

537
00:16:39,690 --> 00:16:40,080
Cool.

538
00:16:40,140 --> 00:16:40,320
Yeah.

539
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:40,590
Right.

540
00:16:41,870 --> 00:16:42,079
Cool.

541
00:16:42,740 --> 00:16:43,069
Look there.

542
00:16:43,069 --> 00:16:45,740
There's all kinds of reasons
why that happens, but when

543
00:16:45,740 --> 00:16:47,510
people are like, Hey, we're
starting this thing, we're

544
00:16:47,510 --> 00:16:49,189
six months into it, we
don't know if it's working.

545
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,349
I get that like in six
months you usually don't

546
00:16:51,349 --> 00:16:52,069
know that it's working.

547
00:16:52,430 --> 00:16:52,849
Yeah, but you

548
00:16:52,849 --> 00:16:53,180
need at

549
00:16:53,180 --> 00:16:53,420
least

550
00:16:53,420 --> 00:16:53,480
a

551
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:54,020
couple more years.

552
00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:54,439
Are you?

553
00:16:54,444 --> 00:16:55,520
Why are you worried
about that at that point?

554
00:16:56,089 --> 00:16:56,329
To be my

555
00:16:56,329 --> 00:16:56,510
question?

556
00:16:56,510 --> 00:16:58,490
You don't know any
better, and so I think

557
00:16:58,819 --> 00:16:59,839
this is an expectation.

558
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:01,740
Hey, I'm already 18
months into this and we're

559
00:17:01,740 --> 00:17:02,520
not making any money.

560
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:03,000
Yep.

561
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:03,960
Yeah, you're not supposed to.

562
00:17:05,069 --> 00:17:06,930
It'd be great if
you could, right?

563
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:07,020
Yeah.

564
00:17:07,020 --> 00:17:09,930
But it takes way longer to be
able to turn this thing around.

565
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:10,589
Yeah.

566
00:17:10,589 --> 00:17:11,760
But people don't
really know that.

567
00:17:11,849 --> 00:17:13,140
No, we don't talk
about that much.

568
00:17:13,140 --> 00:17:15,359
And that, and that's why
like the startup timelines,

569
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,010
uh, from the early
founders, they're fantasy.

570
00:17:17,010 --> 00:17:18,480
It's not, they're not forecasts.

571
00:17:18,510 --> 00:17:18,990
It's fiction.

572
00:17:19,025 --> 00:17:19,375
Right.

573
00:17:19,395 --> 00:17:20,295
And, and that's okay.

574
00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:22,140
Their job is to
go make that true.

575
00:17:22,140 --> 00:17:24,660
But I think the, the problem
becomes, again, when there's

576
00:17:24,660 --> 00:17:28,020
expectations aligned with that
and the sense of entitlement

577
00:17:28,020 --> 00:17:29,310
that, because this is what
we set out to do, this

578
00:17:29,310 --> 00:17:30,030
is what we're gonna do.

579
00:17:30,030 --> 00:17:32,520
Again, you've gotta believe that
you're gonna hit it, but you

580
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,430
have to plan for not hitting
it, because statistically

581
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:36,090
you're not going to.

582
00:17:36,450 --> 00:17:39,480
We're also in a business where
time is a a very critical

583
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,330
element in as much as when
we go to raise capital.

584
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,700
When folks raise capital,
they're typically raising

585
00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:47,940
capital for an 18 to
24 month window tops.

586
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:48,090
Yep.

587
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:48,570
Right?

588
00:17:48,570 --> 00:17:49,950
And the idea is that
you're likely gonna be

589
00:17:49,950 --> 00:17:50,790
out of money by then.

590
00:17:51,210 --> 00:17:54,990
That puts a very specific
constraint on time.

591
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:57,629
Dude, you're about to
run outta money, right?

592
00:17:57,629 --> 00:18:00,480
Like this thing either has to
be successful or you are effed.

593
00:18:00,810 --> 00:18:01,169
Right?

594
00:18:01,740 --> 00:18:04,919
And I think that puts us in
a, a weird spot where we're

595
00:18:04,919 --> 00:18:06,389
constantly under the gun.

596
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:09,450
We're also in a business,
particularly among like a

597
00:18:09,450 --> 00:18:12,180
lot of the faster growing
startups where you happen to

598
00:18:12,180 --> 00:18:15,330
be competing with everybody
else with the same idea

599
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:17,070
at exactly the same time,

600
00:18:17,070 --> 00:18:17,095
same time.

601
00:18:17,340 --> 00:18:17,610
Yep.

602
00:18:18,060 --> 00:18:19,950
Let me zoom out a bit, Ryan.

603
00:18:19,950 --> 00:18:22,560
If you and I were starting to
call an ad agency right now

604
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:23,190
Yep.

605
00:18:23,580 --> 00:18:24,655
None of this would
be on the table.

606
00:18:25,409 --> 00:18:25,889
Correct.

607
00:18:26,340 --> 00:18:29,280
Our speed of growth would not
make a lick of difference.

608
00:18:29,340 --> 00:18:30,149
Doesn't Not

609
00:18:30,149 --> 00:18:30,270
at all.

610
00:18:30,270 --> 00:18:30,360
Right.

611
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:32,460
Think we're the first people
to start an an ad agency.

612
00:18:32,669 --> 00:18:32,879
Right.

613
00:18:32,970 --> 00:18:34,800
Or freaking any
services business for

614
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:35,010
that.

615
00:18:35,010 --> 00:18:36,090
Any services business.

616
00:18:36,149 --> 00:18:36,240
Yep.

617
00:18:36,264 --> 00:18:36,544
Right.

618
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,370
We wouldn't be concerned
whether we raised them

619
00:18:38,370 --> 00:18:40,290
up capital because there
wouldn't be any, you know?

620
00:18:40,290 --> 00:18:40,409
Right.

621
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,330
Capitalism doesn't
fund services business.

622
00:18:42,419 --> 00:18:42,510
Yep.

623
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,840
And we would just year after
year, month after month.

624
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,030
Look for deals,
try to bring it in.

625
00:18:48,030 --> 00:18:49,770
Clients, try to make money
on it, try to, you know, go

626
00:18:49,770 --> 00:18:52,020
hiring around it, and it would
take as long as it takes.

627
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:52,680
Yeah.

628
00:18:52,830 --> 00:18:55,260
Again, the reason I'm bringing
this up by comparison, and

629
00:18:55,260 --> 00:18:57,780
by the way, that's a very
healthy expectation and pace.

630
00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:00,690
The reason I bring this up
by startups, by comparison

631
00:19:00,690 --> 00:19:03,960
is somewhere along the way,
we're told that if we're

632
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,050
not right in 18 months or 24
months, that we're a failure.

633
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:07,470
Yeah.

634
00:19:07,475 --> 00:19:07,615
Yeah.

635
00:19:07,905 --> 00:19:08,085
Not true.

636
00:19:08,930 --> 00:19:10,170
And it's like not really

637
00:19:10,530 --> 00:19:10,850
right.

638
00:19:11,389 --> 00:19:12,645
Not really somewhere

639
00:19:12,645 --> 00:19:13,395
else works at all.

640
00:19:13,395 --> 00:19:13,485
No.

641
00:19:13,485 --> 00:19:15,795
The startups don't fail
because they're slow.

642
00:19:15,975 --> 00:19:16,065
Right.

643
00:19:16,065 --> 00:19:18,405
They fail because founders
panic at what would

644
00:19:18,405 --> 00:19:19,965
otherwise be normal speed.

645
00:19:20,385 --> 00:19:20,504
Right.

646
00:19:20,504 --> 00:19:22,935
Because their expectation
is that they should

647
00:19:22,935 --> 00:19:23,745
be going faster.

648
00:19:23,985 --> 00:19:27,225
And look, and this isn't
about like being productive

649
00:19:27,315 --> 00:19:29,325
in like, you know, in, in
getting your work done.

650
00:19:29,330 --> 00:19:29,570
Yeah.

651
00:19:29,575 --> 00:19:29,805
Yeah.

652
00:19:29,835 --> 00:19:31,785
Ryan, you, me and the
rest of the team, we

653
00:19:31,785 --> 00:19:33,555
are productive as hell.

654
00:19:33,585 --> 00:19:33,915
Yes.

655
00:19:33,975 --> 00:19:34,185
Right.

656
00:19:34,814 --> 00:19:36,885
But we also have a degree
of patience, and I think

657
00:19:36,885 --> 00:19:39,104
this has been a hallmark
for us for a very long time.

658
00:19:39,495 --> 00:19:42,135
We recognize how long things
take to actually build.

659
00:19:42,314 --> 00:19:42,554
Yeah.

660
00:19:42,614 --> 00:19:46,004
You know, we launched a new
product last, last month, and

661
00:19:46,245 --> 00:19:49,304
our expectations for, for month
one growth, I think were very,

662
00:19:49,364 --> 00:19:52,004
you know, conservative, but by
conservative I mean realistic.

663
00:19:52,274 --> 00:19:52,524
Yeah, right.

664
00:19:52,524 --> 00:19:52,879
Realistic.

665
00:19:53,504 --> 00:19:53,895
Yep.

666
00:19:54,254 --> 00:19:56,595
And because of that, we
are happy with it and it's

667
00:19:56,595 --> 00:19:58,995
not, 'cause we, we set
the bar so low that we

668
00:19:58,995 --> 00:19:59,925
could easily jump over it.

669
00:20:00,014 --> 00:20:00,645
Right, right, right.

670
00:20:00,650 --> 00:20:02,145
We know what the bar
was supposed to be

671
00:20:02,264 --> 00:20:03,045
reasonably.

672
00:20:03,165 --> 00:20:03,495
Yeah,

673
00:20:03,615 --> 00:20:03,825
right.

674
00:20:03,915 --> 00:20:06,254
I think look, if you start
to expect miracles on a

675
00:20:06,254 --> 00:20:09,345
schedule, expect to start
making really desperate

676
00:20:09,345 --> 00:20:10,815
decisions on a schedule too.

677
00:20:10,815 --> 00:20:11,115
Right.

678
00:20:11,115 --> 00:20:12,555
You just, this is the problem.

679
00:20:12,555 --> 00:20:14,175
I think people, again,
people's expectations

680
00:20:14,175 --> 00:20:15,315
are just so outta whack.

681
00:20:15,585 --> 00:20:15,795
You know?

682
00:20:15,795 --> 00:20:16,905
I think the good news is.

683
00:20:17,429 --> 00:20:20,010
Getting out of your own head,
getting off the whiteboard,

684
00:20:20,010 --> 00:20:21,899
getting out of your spreadsheet
and talking to some other

685
00:20:21,899 --> 00:20:23,610
founders solves this.

686
00:20:23,610 --> 00:20:25,770
Most of the time when you look
around and everybody else goes,

687
00:20:25,949 --> 00:20:27,270
did you just say three years?

688
00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:28,830
And they're going
like, you plan on six.

689
00:20:28,830 --> 00:20:30,240
And you're like,
well, what about you?

690
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:31,020
You say, same thing.

691
00:20:31,020 --> 00:20:31,350
Same thing.

692
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:31,830
Same, same.

693
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:33,330
Okay, so everybody here
thinks it's gonna take me

694
00:20:33,330 --> 00:20:35,280
six years, it's probably
gonna take me six years.

695
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,310
But when all you have, or
is the echo of your own

696
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:41,310
voice in your head, how else
are you supposed to to, to

697
00:20:41,310 --> 00:20:42,389
have better expectations?

698
00:20:42,675 --> 00:20:45,645
It's exacerbated by the
fact that the mythology

699
00:20:45,645 --> 00:20:46,905
that surrounds our business.

700
00:20:46,905 --> 00:20:46,995
Yes.

701
00:20:47,175 --> 00:20:50,175
Which is a big part of why we do
this show so folks can finally

702
00:20:50,235 --> 00:20:51,735
hear how things really go.

703
00:20:52,034 --> 00:20:53,895
If you're listening to
a popular podcast where

704
00:20:53,895 --> 00:20:56,145
they're interviewing a
founder, the reason that

705
00:20:56,145 --> 00:20:58,665
specific founder is getting
interviewed is because they

706
00:20:58,665 --> 00:21:00,044
did something out of the norm.

707
00:21:00,345 --> 00:21:00,645
Yeah.

708
00:21:00,824 --> 00:21:01,095
Right.

709
00:21:01,334 --> 00:21:02,955
Like, you know, years
ago when we interviewed

710
00:21:03,044 --> 00:21:04,334
Brian Chesky, right?

711
00:21:04,334 --> 00:21:04,425
Yeah.

712
00:21:04,425 --> 00:21:05,020
From Airbnb.

713
00:21:05,415 --> 00:21:05,564
Yeah.

714
00:21:05,625 --> 00:21:07,965
He was interesting because he
did something out of the norm.

715
00:21:08,205 --> 00:21:08,445
Yeah.

716
00:21:09,375 --> 00:21:12,015
Bringing somebody on a, how many
freaking pitches do we get for

717
00:21:12,015 --> 00:21:14,445
people to come onto our show,
onto this, onto our podcast?

718
00:21:14,865 --> 00:21:16,575
Which is ironic 'cause we
don't have guests, right?

719
00:21:16,575 --> 00:21:16,875
Yeah.

720
00:21:17,865 --> 00:21:20,445
Which what I, I just have to
call this out 'cause maybe

721
00:21:20,445 --> 00:21:21,315
somebody will hear this.

722
00:21:21,315 --> 00:21:22,515
Maybe somebody will hear this.

723
00:21:22,815 --> 00:21:25,785
I love the pitches where
they're like, I absolutely

724
00:21:25,785 --> 00:21:27,225
love the podcast.

725
00:21:27,225 --> 00:21:29,685
Your episode on whatever,
whatever was amazing.

726
00:21:30,315 --> 00:21:31,635
I have this guest that
you should check out.

727
00:21:31,635 --> 00:21:34,845
Like if you love our podcast,
you may or may not have noticed.

728
00:21:34,845 --> 00:21:35,745
You should have noticed.

729
00:21:35,745 --> 00:21:36,825
We don't do guests, but

730
00:21:36,885 --> 00:21:37,065
Yeah.

731
00:21:37,065 --> 00:21:37,185
Right.

732
00:21:37,185 --> 00:21:38,010
Still get up offers every day.

733
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,210
We're flattered, but
we're not accepting.

734
00:21:40,629 --> 00:21:40,780
Yeah.

735
00:21:40,780 --> 00:21:41,830
I love the flattery though.

736
00:21:41,860 --> 00:21:44,920
But, but the point is, what
you're hearing, you know, as,

737
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,129
as the kind of the, the outside
narrative is that startups

738
00:21:48,129 --> 00:21:49,450
grow at these incredible paces.

739
00:21:49,450 --> 00:21:49,540
Yeah.

740
00:21:49,540 --> 00:21:51,730
You're seeing either a
huge funding round or huge

741
00:21:51,730 --> 00:21:56,770
outcomes, et cetera, and that
is true for a tiny, tiny,

742
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,480
tiny percentage of startups.

743
00:21:58,540 --> 00:21:58,600
Yeah.

744
00:21:58,659 --> 00:22:01,300
That world actually does
exist, and I gotta say.

745
00:22:01,784 --> 00:22:04,215
I know a lot of those jokers,
you know, the founders

746
00:22:04,215 --> 00:22:05,895
behind those companies,
and I say jokers because

747
00:22:05,985 --> 00:22:06,735
they're all great people.

748
00:22:07,245 --> 00:22:10,485
I've seen them do seven
other companies that had

749
00:22:10,485 --> 00:22:11,804
nowhere near the growth rate.

750
00:22:11,804 --> 00:22:14,385
Yeah, this one caught heat
and I've been at it too.

751
00:22:14,385 --> 00:22:15,044
I've like, yep.

752
00:22:15,195 --> 00:22:16,995
I've had a moment where
I've had a company catch

753
00:22:16,995 --> 00:22:17,774
heat and do really well.

754
00:22:17,774 --> 00:22:19,365
I'm companies that
went nowhere at all.

755
00:22:19,604 --> 00:22:22,395
It's not nearly as controllable
as people think it is.

756
00:22:22,695 --> 00:22:25,875
I would say reasonable
growth is fairly controllable

757
00:22:26,054 --> 00:22:28,395
hypergrowth, where you just
hit lightning in a bottle.

758
00:22:28,725 --> 00:22:30,435
It's more found than discovered.

759
00:22:31,064 --> 00:22:32,385
Like you just, you
happen upon it.

760
00:22:32,564 --> 00:22:32,864
Right.

761
00:22:33,044 --> 00:22:35,985
And I think for a lot of
folks, the expectation

762
00:22:36,165 --> 00:22:38,264
of how much investment
this takes from a time

763
00:22:38,385 --> 00:22:40,725
standpoint is really broken.

764
00:22:41,054 --> 00:22:42,435
When I sit down with
founders, I said, cool,

765
00:22:42,435 --> 00:22:43,395
you've got this new idea.

766
00:22:43,574 --> 00:22:44,834
It's gonna take you
about 10 years for it

767
00:22:44,834 --> 00:22:45,584
to become something.

768
00:22:46,064 --> 00:22:46,304
Yeah.

769
00:22:46,334 --> 00:22:47,534
Their heads explode.

770
00:22:47,534 --> 00:22:48,195
I know.

771
00:22:48,284 --> 00:22:48,850
They don't want to hear that.

772
00:22:49,475 --> 00:22:51,725
That's a really short
period of time and we're

773
00:22:51,725 --> 00:22:53,255
kind of in a spoiled world.

774
00:22:53,525 --> 00:22:53,765
Yeah.

775
00:22:53,795 --> 00:22:55,955
Ryan, if you went back
to like our parents,

776
00:22:56,015 --> 00:22:56,945
uh, growing up, right?

777
00:22:56,975 --> 00:22:57,305
Oh yeah.

778
00:22:57,575 --> 00:22:59,825
And told somebody you could
be successful in 10 years

779
00:22:59,825 --> 00:23:02,285
starting a business, they
would, they'd be the opposite.

780
00:23:02,285 --> 00:23:03,215
They'd be like,
that's unheard of.

781
00:23:03,395 --> 00:23:04,505
Businesses used to be.

782
00:23:04,625 --> 00:23:07,265
They take multi-generations
to be come successful.

783
00:23:07,385 --> 00:23:09,275
My grandfather started it.

784
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:09,620
Right?

785
00:23:09,625 --> 00:23:10,055
Right.

786
00:23:10,060 --> 00:23:12,185
My, my father improved
upon it, and we finally

787
00:23:12,185 --> 00:23:13,145
became profitable.

788
00:23:13,205 --> 00:23:14,465
You know, when, when
we took it out, right?

789
00:23:14,765 --> 00:23:17,195
It's, that's the way it was,
but yet now we have this.

790
00:23:17,325 --> 00:23:20,265
This sort of instant
gratification challenge if

791
00:23:20,265 --> 00:23:22,485
you're thinking about like,
'cause there's all kinds

792
00:23:22,485 --> 00:23:25,095
of timeline lies that we
can tell ourselves, right?

793
00:23:25,095 --> 00:23:25,155
Yeah.

794
00:23:25,155 --> 00:23:28,635
From product to marketing to
building credibility, building

795
00:23:28,635 --> 00:23:30,975
team, there's all kinds of
timelines that we operate on.

796
00:23:31,365 --> 00:23:31,485
Right?

797
00:23:31,485 --> 00:23:34,185
Is there one that you think is
more dangerous or more damaging?

798
00:23:34,245 --> 00:23:35,385
Uh, in terms of the timeline?

799
00:23:35,385 --> 00:23:36,075
Lie for founders,

800
00:23:36,315 --> 00:23:37,410
you know, something
that's really.

801
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,730
Funny about everything
we talk about here is

802
00:23:40,730 --> 00:23:42,470
that none of it is new.

803
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:45,290
Everything you're dealing
with right now has been done a

804
00:23:45,290 --> 00:23:49,129
thousand times before you, which
means the answer already exists.

805
00:23:49,129 --> 00:23:50,990
You may just not know
it, but that's okay.

806
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:53,180
That's kind of what
we're here to do.

807
00:23:53,210 --> 00:23:55,820
We talk about this stuff on
the show, but we actually

808
00:23:55,820 --> 00:23:57,350
solve these problems all

809
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:59,960
dayLong@groups.startups.com.

810
00:24:00,050 --> 00:24:03,320
So if any of this sounds
familiar, stop guessing

811
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:04,340
about what to do.

812
00:24:04,450 --> 00:24:07,720
Let us just give you the answers
to the test and be done with it.

813
00:24:08,350 --> 00:24:10,780
I think how long it takes
to build a self-sustaining

814
00:24:10,780 --> 00:24:13,210
company, like a successful
self-sustaining company.

815
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:13,510
Yeah.

816
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,460
And my answer is always
five to 10 years.

817
00:24:15,730 --> 00:24:16,480
Five if you're lucky.

818
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:17,260
10 if you're reasonable.

819
00:24:17,710 --> 00:24:18,010
Right?

820
00:24:18,490 --> 00:24:18,550
Yeah.

821
00:24:18,550 --> 00:24:21,970
And that seems to run in
such stark contrast to

822
00:24:21,970 --> 00:24:25,360
what the expectations are,
which is hilarious because

823
00:24:25,450 --> 00:24:27,250
I don't know where these
expectations come from.

824
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:27,820
Right,

825
00:24:28,270 --> 00:24:28,510
right.

826
00:24:28,510 --> 00:24:31,660
Again, I equate it to, hey, I,
you know, listened to Chesky

827
00:24:31,660 --> 00:24:33,250
on the podcast, but like.

828
00:24:33,615 --> 00:24:35,115
By the time chess, he
went public, he had

829
00:24:35,115 --> 00:24:36,285
been at it for 12 years.

830
00:24:36,345 --> 00:24:36,645
Right,

831
00:24:36,890 --> 00:24:37,240
right.

832
00:24:37,245 --> 00:24:38,325
It didn't happen overnight.

833
00:24:38,565 --> 00:24:38,835
Right.

834
00:24:38,865 --> 00:24:39,855
The overnight success.

835
00:24:39,855 --> 00:24:40,035
Right.

836
00:24:40,035 --> 00:24:43,005
We, we, we went from not being
on the NASDAQ to being on the

837
00:24:43,005 --> 00:24:46,275
NASDAQ overnight, but the path
up to that was quite long.

838
00:24:46,425 --> 00:24:48,705
And even then, you know,
someone's gonna be more cynical

839
00:24:48,705 --> 00:24:50,595
and they'll say, yeah, but
you know, uh, that was when

840
00:24:50,595 --> 00:24:52,695
we went public, but they
were wildly successful five

841
00:24:52,695 --> 00:24:54,885
years before that, or six
years before that, so it was

842
00:24:54,885 --> 00:24:56,085
really only a six year run.

843
00:24:56,265 --> 00:24:57,105
I'm like, cool.

844
00:24:57,555 --> 00:24:57,645
Yeah.

845
00:24:57,645 --> 00:25:00,675
And how many people actually
get to that threshold?

846
00:25:00,915 --> 00:25:02,325
It's the Powerball mentality.

847
00:25:02,939 --> 00:25:03,120
Yep.

848
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:05,580
Well, you know, uh, I only
need one ticket to win.

849
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:06,209
Yes.

850
00:25:06,209 --> 00:25:07,770
But the probability
that you're going to win

851
00:25:07,770 --> 00:25:08,909
it is incredibly low.

852
00:25:09,090 --> 00:25:09,270
Yeah.

853
00:25:09,330 --> 00:25:11,879
So you don't wanna invest
all of your expectation

854
00:25:11,879 --> 00:25:12,600
on that outcome.

855
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,929
You need to dial it back
and say, what's a reasonable

856
00:25:15,929 --> 00:25:17,699
outcome for where I am now?

857
00:25:17,939 --> 00:25:19,409
And set the expectation
around that.

858
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:22,260
Yeah, I think if I'm forced
to pick one, it's the

859
00:25:22,260 --> 00:25:24,420
funding timeline, and I
think there's two challenges

860
00:25:24,420 --> 00:25:25,380
with the funding timeline.

861
00:25:25,620 --> 00:25:27,420
It becomes a foregone
conclusion that we will

862
00:25:27,420 --> 00:25:29,790
raise in 90 days and it
becomes a foregone conclusion

863
00:25:29,790 --> 00:25:30,960
that we will raise, right?

864
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,820
Neither of those two
things is certain, and

865
00:25:32,820 --> 00:25:34,050
yet I watch founders.

866
00:25:34,469 --> 00:25:35,850
Plan around this stuff.

867
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,020
And I think to me, that can
be one of the most damaging

868
00:25:40,020 --> 00:25:43,110
lies that, that founders tell
themselves when they're, they're

869
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:45,719
planning for those, those
outcomes, both the timeframe

870
00:25:45,719 --> 00:25:48,510
that it takes and the fact
that they are certain to just

871
00:25:48,510 --> 00:25:49,469
go and raise that capital.

872
00:25:49,469 --> 00:25:51,300
Because then they build the
business around it and they're

873
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:53,729
like, well, who cares if the
runway goes past 90 days?

874
00:25:53,729 --> 00:25:54,570
Because that's all we need.

875
00:25:54,629 --> 00:25:55,350
That's when we're raising.

876
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:57,750
And, and it's, it's certain,
I think this is where

877
00:25:58,169 --> 00:26:00,990
people fall into one of
many entitlement traps.

878
00:26:01,230 --> 00:26:04,110
I'm a huge fan of the, uh,
philosopher a Rand, the

879
00:26:04,110 --> 00:26:05,010
author of Atlas Shrugged

880
00:26:05,010 --> 00:26:05,250
in

881
00:26:05,250 --> 00:26:08,250
a few other books, and, and
she was as shrewd as they come.

882
00:26:08,250 --> 00:26:09,659
Like, when you go back
and, and you listen to her

883
00:26:09,659 --> 00:26:12,300
interviews and stuff, I
mean, she's painfully shrewd.

884
00:26:12,540 --> 00:26:12,690
Yes.

885
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,310
But one of the things
that she would always say

886
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,080
was, check your premises

887
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:16,470
Uhhuh.

888
00:26:16,770 --> 00:26:18,210
You know, whenever you're
not sure where you're

889
00:26:18,210 --> 00:26:19,020
at, check your premises.

890
00:26:19,020 --> 00:26:21,000
Like, how did you
arrive at this place?

891
00:26:21,060 --> 00:26:21,210
Yes.

892
00:26:21,210 --> 00:26:21,330
Right.

893
00:26:21,330 --> 00:26:23,879
Like, what are the things that
you thought were foundational

894
00:26:23,879 --> 00:26:26,550
knowledge that you based all
of these expectations on?

895
00:26:26,790 --> 00:26:28,500
And were they actually true?

896
00:26:28,649 --> 00:26:28,980
Right.

897
00:26:29,610 --> 00:26:30,419
Check your premises.

898
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,940
Hey, I think this thing should
be successful in three years.

899
00:26:33,060 --> 00:26:33,929
Based on what?

900
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:34,620
Based on what?

901
00:26:34,620 --> 00:26:35,145
Right, right.

902
00:26:35,310 --> 00:26:37,649
Where did you get that
foundational knowledge

903
00:26:37,860 --> 00:26:40,169
that sounded like it was
statistically relevant?

904
00:26:40,350 --> 00:26:41,550
That you should be comfortable?

905
00:26:41,580 --> 00:26:41,700
Yeah.

906
00:26:41,705 --> 00:26:42,450
With, with that decision,

907
00:26:42,540 --> 00:26:44,520
it was, it's grounded in
a very specific theory.

908
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,800
Will it's, I have exactly
three years before my spouse

909
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:47,730
will kick me out of my house.

910
00:26:47,730 --> 00:26:48,705
If it's not working by then,

911
00:26:49,020 --> 00:26:49,980
I didn't get that far.

912
00:26:50,460 --> 00:26:51,929
That's actually very reasonable.

913
00:26:52,020 --> 00:26:52,110
Yeah.

914
00:26:52,260 --> 00:26:54,060
But I think here's
what ends up happening.

915
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,820
We get into what I'd
call an entitlement trap.

916
00:26:57,060 --> 00:26:57,240
Yeah.

917
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,544
An entitlement trap to me.

918
00:26:59,485 --> 00:27:02,305
Is, I deserve my expectations.

919
00:27:02,305 --> 00:27:02,365
Yeah.

920
00:27:02,605 --> 00:27:05,305
I deserve my expectations
because I expect them.

921
00:27:05,605 --> 00:27:05,815
Right?

922
00:27:05,815 --> 00:27:05,965
Yep.

923
00:27:06,205 --> 00:27:08,935
And I, uh, I was telling you,
uh, before the show that I

924
00:27:08,935 --> 00:27:11,365
was talking to my, my wife
about this last night and

925
00:27:11,365 --> 00:27:13,165
I was talking about like
the expectations and the

926
00:27:13,165 --> 00:27:14,274
entitlement of our kids.

927
00:27:14,485 --> 00:27:14,754
Yeah.

928
00:27:15,175 --> 00:27:18,175
And I said that I get the
fact that, you know, where

929
00:27:18,175 --> 00:27:20,485
I came from, you know, being
a poor kid and where my kids

930
00:27:20,485 --> 00:27:22,945
are coming from, being a not
poor kid are very different.

931
00:27:23,245 --> 00:27:23,455
Yeah.

932
00:27:23,784 --> 00:27:24,475
And so.

933
00:27:24,915 --> 00:27:27,405
I don't have an entitlement trap
because I don't feel entitled

934
00:27:27,405 --> 00:27:28,995
to anything, but they do.

935
00:27:29,235 --> 00:27:29,535
They do.

936
00:27:29,535 --> 00:27:30,735
They're great kids, right?

937
00:27:30,735 --> 00:27:33,075
Like incredibly kind
and sweet and honest.

938
00:27:33,075 --> 00:27:33,345
Right?

939
00:27:33,825 --> 00:27:38,295
But their expectation,
their baseline is so much

940
00:27:38,295 --> 00:27:40,185
higher, just by definition.

941
00:27:40,485 --> 00:27:40,725
Yep.

942
00:27:41,205 --> 00:27:43,815
And so when they go into this
world and they have these

943
00:27:43,815 --> 00:27:47,025
expectations, and again, a
lot of it's just implied, like

944
00:27:47,025 --> 00:27:50,745
we go on nice vacations, so
when my kids go on a shitty

945
00:27:50,745 --> 00:27:53,050
vacation, which isn't even a
shitty vacation, like right.

946
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:55,500
They're gonna be
like, what a dump.

947
00:27:55,770 --> 00:27:55,889
Yeah.

948
00:27:55,889 --> 00:27:56,070
Right.

949
00:27:56,970 --> 00:27:59,909
Not because they're in a
dump, probably back then

950
00:27:59,909 --> 00:28:01,379
would've been nice contrast
vacation I ever went.

951
00:28:01,590 --> 00:28:02,159
Right, right.

952
00:28:02,699 --> 00:28:04,350
But that's, that's
their comparison.

953
00:28:04,679 --> 00:28:06,540
I think the same thing
happens with founders.

954
00:28:06,899 --> 00:28:09,659
I think founders are like, well,
I believe this is gonna be the

955
00:28:09,659 --> 00:28:12,389
next big thing, or I wanna be,
you know, this next big thing.

956
00:28:12,540 --> 00:28:12,720
Yeah.

957
00:28:12,750 --> 00:28:14,760
So they feel entitled
to that outcome.

958
00:28:15,330 --> 00:28:16,740
Sorely disappointed when
they don't get there,

959
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:17,580
which is most of the time.

960
00:28:17,670 --> 00:28:19,080
Yeah, that's, I think
that's the challenge.

961
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:19,500
Right?

962
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:23,159
And And unfortunately,
startups don't reward efforts.

963
00:28:23,460 --> 00:28:24,000
Right.

964
00:28:24,270 --> 00:28:26,520
There are no payouts.

965
00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:28,350
It doesn't guarantee
any kind of an outcome.

966
00:28:28,350 --> 00:28:30,629
Startups pay for results,
not your suffering.

967
00:28:30,629 --> 00:28:30,840
Right.

968
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,420
If only it were the other
way around, we don't be rich,

969
00:28:33,690 --> 00:28:34,560
let's call on that.

970
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,450
We're used to jobs.

971
00:28:36,750 --> 00:28:36,840
Yeah.

972
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,210
Where you're supposed to
be rewarded for hard work.

973
00:28:39,210 --> 00:28:39,270
Yeah.

974
00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:41,010
If you work more hours,
you get paid more.

975
00:28:41,129 --> 00:28:41,430
Yep.

976
00:28:42,030 --> 00:28:42,430
So I think.

977
00:28:43,094 --> 00:28:46,995
At a societal level, we
are absolutely, we feel a,

978
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,115
a absolute entitlement to
compensation for effort.

979
00:28:50,115 --> 00:28:50,294
Yep.

980
00:28:50,685 --> 00:28:53,475
If that's the way you feel,
you are in the wrong business.

981
00:28:53,715 --> 00:28:54,344
That's exactly it.

982
00:28:54,584 --> 00:28:54,764
Yeah.

983
00:28:55,064 --> 00:28:57,794
Time invested does not
equal value delivered.

984
00:28:57,794 --> 00:28:59,324
And if there's no
value delivered, your

985
00:28:59,324 --> 00:29:00,165
startup's not gonna grow.

986
00:29:00,165 --> 00:29:01,844
It's not gonna, it's not
gonna achieve anything.

987
00:29:02,205 --> 00:29:02,475
Right.

988
00:29:02,475 --> 00:29:03,465
It's also your fault.

989
00:29:03,645 --> 00:29:03,735
Yep.

990
00:29:04,770 --> 00:29:06,630
Which I think a lot, a lot
of people have a hard time

991
00:29:06,630 --> 00:29:08,670
wrapping their heads around,
like they're like, but I

992
00:29:08,670 --> 00:29:09,780
worked really hard at this.

993
00:29:10,020 --> 00:29:10,080
Yeah.

994
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:10,650
Did it work?

995
00:29:10,650 --> 00:29:11,070
No.

996
00:29:11,220 --> 00:29:12,300
That's your fault.

997
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:12,570
Right,

998
00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:15,210
but Will, but you just
stumbled across it.

999
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,400
There is one thing
we are absolutely

1000
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:18,750
entitled to as founders.

1001
00:29:19,679 --> 00:29:20,370
Accountability.

1002
00:29:20,850 --> 00:29:21,659
Accountability, right?

1003
00:29:21,659 --> 00:29:22,530
Yeah, exactly.

1004
00:29:22,830 --> 00:29:25,169
That you are entitled to 100%.

1005
00:29:25,860 --> 00:29:28,409
I don't have like a, a lot of
very strong ideologies, but

1006
00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:32,370
one that is very, very strongly
about is you deserve nothing.

1007
00:29:32,370 --> 00:29:32,970
You didn't earn.

1008
00:29:33,179 --> 00:29:33,270
Yeah.

1009
00:29:33,270 --> 00:29:34,440
You deserve nothing.

1010
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:35,370
You didn't earn.

1011
00:29:35,429 --> 00:29:35,580
Yep.

1012
00:29:35,639 --> 00:29:38,610
Uh, and I gotta tell you, not
popular at cocktail parties.

1013
00:29:39,060 --> 00:29:40,020
Uh, probably not.

1014
00:29:40,050 --> 00:29:40,200
Yeah.

1015
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,030
Depending on who, who
your friend circle is made

1016
00:29:42,030 --> 00:29:42,120
up.

1017
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:42,179
Yeah.

1018
00:29:42,179 --> 00:29:43,560
I was gonna say, there's
a lot of people with

1019
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:44,340
shit they didn't earn.

1020
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:45,020
Right.

1021
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,510
And I feel I'm not
a jerk about it.

1022
00:29:47,510 --> 00:29:48,980
I'm not trying to like
berate anybody about

1023
00:29:48,980 --> 00:29:52,160
it, but conversely, I,
I also feel very serious

1024
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,510
about what I have earned.

1025
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:53,870
Yeah.

1026
00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:54,140
Right.

1027
00:29:54,140 --> 00:29:56,840
In other words, I've put in the
work and I've had the outcome

1028
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:57,890
and I've earned something.

1029
00:29:58,220 --> 00:30:00,200
I feel a hundred
percent entitled to it.

1030
00:30:00,470 --> 00:30:00,590
Yeah.

1031
00:30:00,590 --> 00:30:03,680
What I don't feel entitled
to is anything I didn't earn

1032
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:04,310
anything else.

1033
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:04,580
Yeah.

1034
00:30:04,650 --> 00:30:04,710
Yeah.

1035
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:08,160
And, and I look at it from the
standpoint of this recently come

1036
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,780
up in, in my life inheritance.

1037
00:30:09,780 --> 00:30:12,570
I didn't inherit anything, but
I, but, uh, we had somebody else

1038
00:30:12,570 --> 00:30:15,180
in our family that inherited
an awful lot of money, right?

1039
00:30:15,660 --> 00:30:18,120
And, and they were arguing that
it wasn't enough and all these

1040
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,120
things, and I'm like, Hmm.

1041
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:23,910
The guy who had to work for that

1042
00:30:24,510 --> 00:30:25,020
Yeah.

1043
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,540
Felt very differently
about whether that was

1044
00:30:27,540 --> 00:30:28,740
enough money, right?

1045
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,500
And here you are getting it for
free and complaining about it

1046
00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:33,900
at the same time, and it just.

1047
00:30:34,485 --> 00:30:37,185
Burns me, man, because I'm
like, you didn't earn it.

1048
00:30:37,514 --> 00:30:37,725
Right.

1049
00:30:37,725 --> 00:30:38,564
You didn't earn it.

1050
00:30:38,925 --> 00:30:40,155
And so you're not
entitled to it.

1051
00:30:40,784 --> 00:30:43,754
And I know like, again, it does
make the most charming person

1052
00:30:43,754 --> 00:30:46,245
at cocktail party sometime,
although I keep wraps on it.

1053
00:30:46,245 --> 00:30:47,655
I just talked to Sarah
about it on the way home.

1054
00:30:47,895 --> 00:30:49,725
Here's another example, and this
is really gonna make everybody

1055
00:30:49,725 --> 00:30:52,514
hate me when someone's kid
talks about their family's

1056
00:30:52,514 --> 00:30:54,135
wealth as if they earned it.

1057
00:30:54,764 --> 00:30:55,215
Yes.

1058
00:30:55,875 --> 00:30:56,145
Yeah.

1059
00:30:57,045 --> 00:30:58,725
Ah, for interesting that
when you say kid, that can

1060
00:30:58,725 --> 00:31:00,315
also be like a 45-year-old.

1061
00:31:00,315 --> 00:31:01,725
I've, I've run into those kids.

1062
00:31:01,725 --> 00:31:02,055
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1063
00:31:03,795 --> 00:31:05,865
And I'm like, listen, it's
great that you have it.

1064
00:31:05,865 --> 00:31:06,525
I don't, you know

1065
00:31:06,615 --> 00:31:06,825
Yeah.

1066
00:31:06,855 --> 00:31:09,345
Grudge you for having it, but
you don't get to brag about it.

1067
00:31:09,465 --> 00:31:09,675
Right.

1068
00:31:09,675 --> 00:31:09,765
Yeah.

1069
00:31:09,765 --> 00:31:12,555
Like, conversely, there's
another guy that I know, Ryan,

1070
00:31:12,645 --> 00:31:14,655
when you're over my house,
did I show you that that house

1071
00:31:14,655 --> 00:31:16,545
that got built, like across the
way that looks like a hotel?

1072
00:31:16,755 --> 00:31:17,805
You know what's funny?

1073
00:31:17,925 --> 00:31:19,905
I was just talking to our, our
mutual friend who happens to

1074
00:31:19,905 --> 00:31:22,365
be visiting me right now about
that exact house came up in

1075
00:31:22,365 --> 00:31:24,825
an entirely different context
and we were laughing about it.

1076
00:31:24,825 --> 00:31:24,975
Yep.

1077
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:25,820
For folks listening.

1078
00:31:25,820 --> 00:31:28,159
There just happens to be a guy
that, that sold a company for

1079
00:31:28,159 --> 00:31:30,980
like billions of dollars and,
and I live in Ohio, right?

1080
00:31:30,980 --> 00:31:31,820
This is in Beverly Hills.

1081
00:31:32,629 --> 00:31:34,970
So the, the point is
how, how bizarre this is.

1082
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:35,270
Yes.

1083
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,240
And he lives like across the
street, not literally across

1084
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,490
the street, but you know,
whatever in, in Sightline.

1085
00:31:40,909 --> 00:31:44,480
And he built like a
50,000 square foot house.

1086
00:31:44,690 --> 00:31:46,010
It's the pet by this.

1087
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:46,280
Yeah.

1088
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,230
I mean it is absolutely.

1089
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,060
When you drive by it, it
actually looks like a hotel.

1090
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,260
Anyway, that's not
the point of my story.

1091
00:31:51,649 --> 00:31:53,899
Last year or year
before his son.

1092
00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:55,800
I happened to be
working out with me.

1093
00:31:55,805 --> 00:31:57,990
Like me, me and another founder
were together working out.

1094
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:59,010
He joined us to work out.

1095
00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:00,060
Nicest guy in the world.

1096
00:32:00,330 --> 00:32:00,630
Right.

1097
00:32:00,690 --> 00:32:03,780
And what I loved about him
so much, they have this

1098
00:32:03,780 --> 00:32:05,130
insane car collection.

1099
00:32:05,130 --> 00:32:06,660
It's all over the
internet, by the way.

1100
00:32:07,020 --> 00:32:09,360
And you know, he kind of
manages the car collection

1101
00:32:09,450 --> 00:32:10,290
among other things.

1102
00:32:10,290 --> 00:32:10,530
Right.

1103
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,170
He's posting about it on
Instagram and every long time.

1104
00:32:13,860 --> 00:32:17,160
But the way he talks about it
is in such reverence to his dad

1105
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:17,520
Uhhuh,

1106
00:32:17,790 --> 00:32:19,260
which mad respect.

1107
00:32:19,470 --> 00:32:19,740
Yes.

1108
00:32:19,740 --> 00:32:19,950
Right.

1109
00:32:20,370 --> 00:32:21,900
He's like, here's
what my dad did.

1110
00:32:21,930 --> 00:32:25,710
Here's how, you know, he's, he's
clearly so respectful and he

1111
00:32:25,710 --> 00:32:28,440
feels so rewarded by his dad.

1112
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:28,560
Yeah.

1113
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:29,430
Not entitled by him.

1114
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:29,970
Right,

1115
00:32:29,970 --> 00:32:30,210
right.

1116
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,860
And to me, I was
like, hallelujah.

1117
00:32:31,860 --> 00:32:32,610
Man, difference.

1118
00:32:32,610 --> 00:32:32,790
Yeah.

1119
00:32:32,790 --> 00:32:32,800
Yeah.

1120
00:32:32,879 --> 00:32:35,310
But I'm gonna take this back
to this sense of entitlement.

1121
00:32:35,550 --> 00:32:38,790
We have this feeling that the
world owes us something, that

1122
00:32:38,790 --> 00:32:40,020
our startups owe us something.

1123
00:32:40,379 --> 00:32:40,530
Yeah.

1124
00:32:40,590 --> 00:32:43,110
And that is true to the
extent that we've earned it.

1125
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,820
Our output rewards it.

1126
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:45,570
Yeah,

1127
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:46,260
here's an example.

1128
00:32:46,379 --> 00:32:49,094
A buddy of mine goes out, he
raises like, I think like $70

1129
00:32:49,094 --> 00:32:51,990
million, uh, for a startup,
puts like 10 years into

1130
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:52,919
it, which is a long time.

1131
00:32:53,159 --> 00:32:53,280
Yeah.

1132
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:53,520
Right.

1133
00:32:54,030 --> 00:32:56,399
And it kind of just goes
sideways, meaning like, it,

1134
00:32:56,399 --> 00:32:58,200
it's not that it totally
blows up, but it, it's,

1135
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,850
he's never gonna get his
money back out of it, ever.

1136
00:33:00,149 --> 00:33:01,740
And of course he's
bemoaning that fact.

1137
00:33:01,740 --> 00:33:05,730
He's like, dude, I put 10
hard years into this, right?

1138
00:33:05,730 --> 00:33:05,790
Yeah.

1139
00:33:05,820 --> 00:33:08,850
Like, I feel like I deserve
a lot more than I get.

1140
00:33:09,270 --> 00:33:10,260
And I was like, I love you.

1141
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:11,580
You don't deserve it.

1142
00:33:12,090 --> 00:33:13,200
I said It would be nice.

1143
00:33:13,650 --> 00:33:14,910
You deserved it
if you earned it.

1144
00:33:14,915 --> 00:33:15,205
Right.

1145
00:33:15,210 --> 00:33:15,450
Right.

1146
00:33:15,450 --> 00:33:18,360
Like if your output, you
and I have plenty of efforts

1147
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:19,320
that we've put into things

1148
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:19,710
Yes.

1149
00:33:19,710 --> 00:33:21,150
That yielded zero results.

1150
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:21,330
Yeah.

1151
00:33:21,330 --> 00:33:23,370
Which means that's
exactly what we've earned,

1152
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,200
what we got back from it,
and that's what we expect

1153
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:25,830
to get back from it.

1154
00:33:25,980 --> 00:33:26,250
Yeah.

1155
00:33:26,820 --> 00:33:28,860
It sucks, but it also
goes the other way.

1156
00:33:29,430 --> 00:33:31,710
It goes the other way where
when you know, I've got

1157
00:33:31,710 --> 00:33:34,050
another buddy of mine sound,
a friend of mine that you

1158
00:33:34,050 --> 00:33:36,600
also knew sold his company
for a billion dollars, right?

1159
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:36,720
Yeah.

1160
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,020
And families are interacting all
the time and every time I I see

1161
00:33:40,020 --> 00:33:41,010
him, I'm just so proud of him.

1162
00:33:41,490 --> 00:33:41,700
Right?

1163
00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:41,760
Yeah.

1164
00:33:41,850 --> 00:33:44,430
I'm like, you've earned
every nickel of that.

1165
00:33:44,490 --> 00:33:44,760
Yes.

1166
00:33:44,820 --> 00:33:46,200
It's an outsized outcome.

1167
00:33:46,500 --> 00:33:48,270
You didn't expect it
necessarily, but you

1168
00:33:48,270 --> 00:33:50,370
did earn it, and you've
earned every nickel.

1169
00:33:50,430 --> 00:33:53,010
One of the things that I
always say to a founder

1170
00:33:53,790 --> 00:33:54,720
when they've cashed out.

1171
00:33:55,050 --> 00:33:57,629
I always, I'm, I'm hoping,
I'm, I'm not the only voice,

1172
00:33:57,629 --> 00:33:58,800
but I get the sense that I am.

1173
00:33:59,580 --> 00:34:00,720
Sometimes it feels
that way here.

1174
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,670
Like, you're the only
person who said something

1175
00:34:02,670 --> 00:34:03,629
nice to me about this.

1176
00:34:03,635 --> 00:34:04,860
I'm like, I'm
sorry to hear that.

1177
00:34:04,980 --> 00:34:07,710
I need you to hear this
from at least one person.

1178
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:08,250
Yeah.

1179
00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:11,670
You deserve every nickel
that you just earned.

1180
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,250
You deserve every square foot
of the house you just bought.

1181
00:34:14,255 --> 00:34:14,534
Yeah.

1182
00:34:14,540 --> 00:34:16,920
You deserve every square inch
of the car you just bought.

1183
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:18,509
You deserve what you've done.

1184
00:34:18,509 --> 00:34:18,570
Yeah.

1185
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:19,855
And Ryan, no, it's crazy.

1186
00:34:20,820 --> 00:34:23,850
Almost 99% of the time,
they're like, you're the

1187
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:24,960
only person who said that.

1188
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:25,020
Yeah.

1189
00:34:25,139 --> 00:34:26,760
Oh, everyone else is
looking at them with

1190
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,389
jealousy or skepticism,
or you name it, right?

1191
00:34:30,395 --> 00:34:30,804
Like right.

1192
00:34:30,990 --> 00:34:31,710
It's tough.

1193
00:34:31,889 --> 00:34:35,159
It's tough, but again,
Lord knows how entitled

1194
00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:36,120
to that person's outcome.

1195
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:37,920
You're like, why couldn't
that have been me?

1196
00:34:38,250 --> 00:34:39,840
Because it wasn't
a lottery ticket.

1197
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,250
This wasn't up to random chance.

1198
00:34:41,250 --> 00:34:42,870
This was up to somebody
putting their pants on the

1199
00:34:42,870 --> 00:34:46,020
line every single day and
doing something to earn it

1200
00:34:46,350 --> 00:34:48,284
different if they're a Powerball
winner, but this ain't that.

1201
00:34:48,929 --> 00:34:49,259
Right.

1202
00:34:49,529 --> 00:34:51,900
So here, here's what I
think, I think the key for

1203
00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:56,790
us, you know, uh, as, as
founders is we've gotta set

1204
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:58,020
reasonable expectations.

1205
00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:58,410
Yeah.

1206
00:34:58,890 --> 00:35:02,549
I think the expectation battle
for founder mentality is real.

1207
00:35:02,759 --> 00:35:03,185
I think it's real.

1208
00:35:04,004 --> 00:35:05,415
I'm gonna go back to the
thing at the very beginning

1209
00:35:05,415 --> 00:35:06,495
about the optimism, right?

1210
00:35:06,495 --> 00:35:08,595
You're, you're told,
you're constantly in pitch

1211
00:35:08,595 --> 00:35:09,825
mode as a founder, right?

1212
00:35:09,825 --> 00:35:11,685
And you're, you're constantly
having to say things that

1213
00:35:11,685 --> 00:35:13,515
aren't quite yet true, right?

1214
00:35:13,515 --> 00:35:16,065
You're projecting out
to this, this future and

1215
00:35:16,065 --> 00:35:17,625
you wanna make everybody
else believe it's true.

1216
00:35:17,625 --> 00:35:19,515
And somewhere along the way
you start to believe it's true

1217
00:35:19,515 --> 00:35:21,855
and then you start to feel
entitled to, to that outcome.

1218
00:35:22,125 --> 00:35:24,194
Question for you will, one
of the things that I, I'm

1219
00:35:24,194 --> 00:35:26,475
curious about, 'cause we do
run into this all the time

1220
00:35:26,504 --> 00:35:29,685
before we get to setting
the reasonable expectations.

1221
00:35:30,174 --> 00:35:33,835
How are we able to help
a founder understand

1222
00:35:33,835 --> 00:35:37,345
that they're not entitled
without crushing them?

1223
00:35:37,345 --> 00:35:39,205
Because I feel like some of
the stuff we've said today,

1224
00:35:39,234 --> 00:35:40,285
it's, it's kind of heavy.

1225
00:35:40,285 --> 00:35:41,605
And some of them are out
there going like, well,

1226
00:35:41,754 --> 00:35:42,835
how am I supposed to feel?

1227
00:35:42,835 --> 00:35:43,044
Right?

1228
00:35:43,044 --> 00:35:44,305
Like, you guys are
just being mean.

1229
00:35:44,305 --> 00:35:45,504
What am I, what am
I supposed to do?

1230
00:35:45,805 --> 00:35:47,960
How do you tell a founder that
you're just not entitled in a

1231
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,964
way that that doesn't completely
deflate their balloon?

1232
00:35:51,384 --> 00:35:53,484
You're entitled to your
next milestone, right?

1233
00:35:53,484 --> 00:35:53,544
Yeah.

1234
00:35:53,575 --> 00:35:54,145
If you earn it.

1235
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:57,450
So if we're torturing the
baseball analogy right

1236
00:35:57,450 --> 00:35:59,850
now, your only focus and
your only expectation is

1237
00:35:59,850 --> 00:36:01,200
to be get on first base.

1238
00:36:01,410 --> 00:36:03,690
Now that doesn't mean your
aspiration isn't to go further.

1239
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:04,169
Yeah.

1240
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:04,500
Right.

1241
00:36:04,890 --> 00:36:06,990
But you haven't even
gotten onto first base.

1242
00:36:07,049 --> 00:36:09,210
So talking about how you're,
you've got a home run in

1243
00:36:09,210 --> 00:36:10,620
the works is bullshit.

1244
00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:14,460
One of the most famous cases I
see on a daily basis is when,

1245
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:15,990
whenever anybody raises capital.

1246
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:17,240
Yeah.

1247
00:36:17,245 --> 00:36:18,540
And like, oh, you
know, look at this.

1248
00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:19,950
We won with a huge valuation.

1249
00:36:19,950 --> 00:36:20,880
We raised a bunch of money.

1250
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:21,330
Yeah.

1251
00:36:21,330 --> 00:36:22,770
I was like, you haven't
sold a goddamn thing.

1252
00:36:22,775 --> 00:36:25,560
You haven't, and you've just
added a massive liability

1253
00:36:25,590 --> 00:36:26,760
and you have less equity now.

1254
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:27,240
Congrats.

1255
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:27,570
Yeah.

1256
00:36:27,570 --> 00:36:29,310
I was like, you haven't
earned a goddamn thing.

1257
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:29,520
Yeah.

1258
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,770
Now, don't get me wrong,
it's hard to raise capital.

1259
00:36:31,770 --> 00:36:33,480
I, I'm not knocking
the milestone.

1260
00:36:33,690 --> 00:36:34,620
What I'm saying is.

1261
00:36:34,895 --> 00:36:38,045
Don't replace that
with market success.

1262
00:36:38,195 --> 00:36:38,375
Yeah.

1263
00:36:38,405 --> 00:36:38,645
Right.

1264
00:36:38,645 --> 00:36:40,445
Like all you've done
is create liability.

1265
00:36:40,445 --> 00:36:44,465
You still have to turn that into
actual success and statistically

1266
00:36:44,465 --> 00:36:45,545
you're not going to do it.

1267
00:36:45,785 --> 00:36:46,025
Yeah,

1268
00:36:46,055 --> 00:36:46,355
right.

1269
00:36:46,355 --> 00:36:50,375
So like a typical vc, if they
have 20 portfolio companies,

1270
00:36:50,405 --> 00:36:53,465
and mind you, this was the
best of the best of the best of

1271
00:36:53,465 --> 00:36:56,945
the best that made it to that
point to get that investment.

1272
00:36:57,425 --> 00:36:57,545
Yeah.

1273
00:36:57,545 --> 00:36:58,595
18 of those will likely fail.

1274
00:36:59,445 --> 00:36:59,805
Yep.

1275
00:36:59,925 --> 00:37:00,165
Right.

1276
00:37:00,255 --> 00:37:03,345
That's the best of the best,
theoretically, being vetted

1277
00:37:03,345 --> 00:37:04,485
by the best of the best.

1278
00:37:04,665 --> 00:37:04,945
Right, right.

1279
00:37:05,385 --> 00:37:07,965
And still 18 are gonna fail,
not two are gonna fail.

1280
00:37:07,965 --> 00:37:09,765
Just like through some
weird happenstance,

1281
00:37:09,795 --> 00:37:10,065
right?

1282
00:37:10,155 --> 00:37:11,115
No, most of

1283
00:37:11,115 --> 00:37:11,650
them, the actual,

1284
00:37:11,925 --> 00:37:13,215
the vast majority.

1285
00:37:13,725 --> 00:37:16,785
And so in every case they
said, oh, we've got the

1286
00:37:16,785 --> 00:37:19,035
money, you know, uh, the
expectations, blah, blah, blah.

1287
00:37:19,035 --> 00:37:19,545
IPO.

1288
00:37:19,545 --> 00:37:21,195
It's done almost literally
every pitch deck.

1289
00:37:21,495 --> 00:37:24,615
But at the same time, I'm kind
of like, you know what would've

1290
00:37:24,615 --> 00:37:26,115
been a really cool expectation?

1291
00:37:26,460 --> 00:37:26,850
I don't know.

1292
00:37:26,850 --> 00:37:29,520
Profitability, self-sustaining,
you know, a business

1293
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:30,779
model selling anything.

1294
00:37:30,839 --> 00:37:31,080
Like

1295
00:37:31,350 --> 00:37:31,950
selling anything,

1296
00:37:31,950 --> 00:37:32,790
generating revenue.

1297
00:37:32,879 --> 00:37:33,120
Right.

1298
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,649
And I think when we start
to align our expectations.

1299
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,050
With what we can
actually achieve.

1300
00:37:40,050 --> 00:37:42,420
And this isn't about
lowering the bar, it's

1301
00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:43,650
about setting milestones.

1302
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:44,340
Say that again.

1303
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:44,640
Right.

1304
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,980
We're, we're not
saying to just aim low.

1305
00:37:46,980 --> 00:37:47,910
Aim small.

1306
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,550
And you know, because
reasonable expectations aren't

1307
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:53,550
a single destination, they're
just a compounding ladder.

1308
00:37:53,550 --> 00:37:55,560
We're just saying like,
you know, build towards

1309
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,390
that next point and then
continue to build from there.

1310
00:37:57,570 --> 00:37:59,160
I'll give you a real world
example, 'cause you and I

1311
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:00,120
were just talking about this.

1312
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,410
We're launching a new product.

1313
00:38:01,410 --> 00:38:02,460
We just launched a
new product, yep.

1314
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:03,060
Weeks ago.

1315
00:38:03,810 --> 00:38:05,460
And our initial expectation.

1316
00:38:06,255 --> 00:38:10,635
Is that we wanna sell $200 a day

1317
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:10,950
a day

1318
00:38:11,085 --> 00:38:11,925
of this product.

1319
00:38:12,105 --> 00:38:12,285
Yep.

1320
00:38:12,285 --> 00:38:12,555
Okay.

1321
00:38:13,305 --> 00:38:14,895
Now pause right there.

1322
00:38:15,404 --> 00:38:17,145
Most people when they hear
this, in fact, I had to

1323
00:38:17,145 --> 00:38:20,355
explain this to my family at
the dinner table, why $200

1324
00:38:20,355 --> 00:38:21,465
was so meaningful to us.

1325
00:38:21,465 --> 00:38:21,705
Yeah.

1326
00:38:22,065 --> 00:38:22,275
Right.

1327
00:38:22,634 --> 00:38:24,735
And my daughter, who's, you
know, 14, she's smart as hell.

1328
00:38:24,735 --> 00:38:26,325
She's like, dad, that doesn't
sound like a lot of money.

1329
00:38:26,835 --> 00:38:29,355
Uh, and I was like, it's
not, that's not the goal.

1330
00:38:29,384 --> 00:38:31,904
That's not, I'm not saying
$200 and let's go, go home.

1331
00:38:32,174 --> 00:38:32,415
Right.

1332
00:38:32,475 --> 00:38:37,154
I'm saying in my expectation
is $200 until we get to $200.

1333
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:37,170
Yeah.

1334
00:38:37,755 --> 00:38:40,965
Because me saying
it's $200,000 a day.

1335
00:38:41,029 --> 00:38:41,319
Yeah.

1336
00:38:41,340 --> 00:38:41,840
Who cares?

1337
00:38:42,315 --> 00:38:42,495
Yeah.

1338
00:38:42,915 --> 00:38:43,125
Like

1339
00:38:43,575 --> 00:38:43,755
funny.

1340
00:38:43,755 --> 00:38:43,875
That's

1341
00:38:43,875 --> 00:38:44,415
not my problem

1342
00:38:44,505 --> 00:38:45,520
right now, think about 200,000.

1343
00:38:45,825 --> 00:38:48,315
You have to pass through
200 to get there.

1344
00:38:48,465 --> 00:38:49,005
Right, right.

1345
00:38:49,005 --> 00:38:50,025
You have to pass that.

1346
00:38:50,025 --> 00:38:50,355
So,

1347
00:38:50,444 --> 00:38:50,715
right.

1348
00:38:50,865 --> 00:38:52,035
I, I think that's
the thing, right?

1349
00:38:52,035 --> 00:38:54,645
You know, short windows,
aggressive and, and,

1350
00:38:54,645 --> 00:38:56,355
and realistic outcomes.

1351
00:38:56,415 --> 00:38:58,965
I'd much rather see
every founder out there

1352
00:38:58,965 --> 00:39:00,795
trade one heroic goal.

1353
00:39:01,155 --> 00:39:04,245
For 10 achievable wins
because that turns into

1354
00:39:04,245 --> 00:39:05,205
heroics at the end.

1355
00:39:05,505 --> 00:39:08,475
You know the example I always
use with founders that I think

1356
00:39:08,775 --> 00:39:10,725
resonates with everybody,
so I'll use it again.

1357
00:39:11,145 --> 00:39:12,525
Whenever I wanna lose weight.

1358
00:39:13,035 --> 00:39:15,225
I never talk about a
goal that I wanna lose.

1359
00:39:15,225 --> 00:39:17,475
Mm. I never say that I wanna
lose 15 I I know that I wanna

1360
00:39:17,475 --> 00:39:18,675
lose 15 pounds, let's say.

1361
00:39:18,675 --> 00:39:18,915
Yeah.

1362
00:39:19,065 --> 00:39:19,245
Right.

1363
00:39:19,245 --> 00:39:22,935
I know that's ultimately
the goal, but I have

1364
00:39:22,935 --> 00:39:24,105
to lose one pound.

1365
00:39:24,795 --> 00:39:27,315
So I always say this,
whenever I'm trying to go

1366
00:39:27,315 --> 00:39:30,225
on a diet or whatever, my
goal is to lose one pound.

1367
00:39:30,915 --> 00:39:31,545
And people like that.

1368
00:39:31,545 --> 00:39:33,165
Well, that just seemed
like a stupid slow goal

1369
00:39:33,165 --> 00:39:33,825
that, that you can't give.

1370
00:39:34,095 --> 00:39:34,335
Yeah.

1371
00:39:34,335 --> 00:39:35,565
Not if I can't get past it.

1372
00:39:35,745 --> 00:39:36,075
Yeah.

1373
00:39:36,524 --> 00:39:36,765
Right.

1374
00:39:36,765 --> 00:39:39,435
Like it's, it's easy to
say, this is my goal.

1375
00:39:39,734 --> 00:39:39,944
Yeah.

1376
00:39:39,944 --> 00:39:40,095
A lot

1377
00:39:40,095 --> 00:39:40,935
harder to pull it off.

1378
00:39:40,935 --> 00:39:41,745
It's virtue signaling.

1379
00:39:41,745 --> 00:39:41,955
Right.

1380
00:39:41,955 --> 00:39:43,694
I'm gonna lose 50 pounds.

1381
00:39:43,754 --> 00:39:43,904
Right.

1382
00:39:43,904 --> 00:39:44,560
Not until you lose one.

1383
00:39:45,540 --> 00:39:50,009
To be fair, I haven't been able
to lose 15 pounds in 20 years.

1384
00:39:50,250 --> 00:39:52,770
So clearly the fact
that I had this big

1385
00:39:52,770 --> 00:39:56,250
expectation and entitlement
right, wasn't helping.

1386
00:39:56,490 --> 00:39:58,890
The key is to be able to
say, I'm not entitled to

1387
00:39:58,890 --> 00:40:02,100
that outcome until I've
earned that one pound, right?

1388
00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:02,220
Yeah.

1389
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,220
I somehow stopped eating
delicious pizza, and I look

1390
00:40:05,220 --> 00:40:07,859
at this saying, it's okay
to have the 15 pound goal or

1391
00:40:07,859 --> 00:40:09,029
whatever your goal is, right?

1392
00:40:09,060 --> 00:40:12,120
Whatever your goal is,
so long as you understand

1393
00:40:12,270 --> 00:40:14,279
that you have to earn it
one increment at a time.

1394
00:40:14,895 --> 00:40:16,275
Yeah, and I think
there's, there's so much

1395
00:40:16,275 --> 00:40:17,265
to be said for that too.

1396
00:40:17,265 --> 00:40:19,815
And it is, it is also, it is
about the earning, but it's

1397
00:40:19,815 --> 00:40:22,275
also just about being able to
actually do it and being able

1398
00:40:22,275 --> 00:40:23,595
to tell that you're doing it.

1399
00:40:23,625 --> 00:40:24,345
I watch.

1400
00:40:24,435 --> 00:40:24,645
Correct.

1401
00:40:24,645 --> 00:40:28,665
So many founders on a weekly
basis who have set a goal that

1402
00:40:28,665 --> 00:40:31,665
is so far away from where they
are now, that they can't tell

1403
00:40:31,665 --> 00:40:32,415
that they're moving towards it.

1404
00:40:32,939 --> 00:40:35,279
I had two calls, calls
like this this week.

1405
00:40:35,460 --> 00:40:37,140
Huge problem where I started
to look at some of them.

1406
00:40:37,140 --> 00:40:38,700
I was like, okay, so
you're making progress.

1407
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:40,200
And they went, well, not really.

1408
00:40:40,259 --> 00:40:42,390
And I went, yeah, really?

1409
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:44,129
Like last week you
didn't do this.

1410
00:40:44,129 --> 00:40:45,120
This week you did, right?

1411
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:46,290
You've got some sales this week.

1412
00:40:46,294 --> 00:40:46,464
Mm-hmm.

1413
00:40:46,575 --> 00:40:46,865
Yeah.

1414
00:40:46,865 --> 00:40:48,149
But the goal is this.

1415
00:40:48,330 --> 00:40:50,399
It's like, well, who
set the damn goal?

1416
00:40:50,399 --> 00:40:50,549
Right?

1417
00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:50,879
Yep.

1418
00:40:50,879 --> 00:40:52,980
Like, why is that the goal?

1419
00:40:53,100 --> 00:40:55,379
And so it just makes it
really, really hard for

1420
00:40:55,379 --> 00:40:57,419
them to even understand that
they're doing the right things

1421
00:40:57,419 --> 00:40:59,490
and heading in the right
direction because they've

1422
00:40:59,490 --> 00:41:01,950
set the marker so far away.

1423
00:41:02,660 --> 00:41:04,910
That the apparent distance
isn't changing at all, and

1424
00:41:04,910 --> 00:41:06,259
that's really problematic.

1425
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,899
I remember specifically
Ryan, remember when I

1426
00:41:08,899 --> 00:41:09,830
moved to Beverly Hills?

1427
00:41:09,950 --> 00:41:10,250
I do.

1428
00:41:10,250 --> 00:41:10,339
Right?

1429
00:41:10,965 --> 00:41:13,395
And I remember sitting
on the, the back porch

1430
00:41:13,425 --> 00:41:14,235
with my wife Sarah.

1431
00:41:14,685 --> 00:41:15,015
And did

1432
00:41:15,015 --> 00:41:16,065
both of you fit out there?

1433
00:41:17,535 --> 00:41:20,175
It's not a big place,
but, but we're like on

1434
00:41:20,175 --> 00:41:21,675
top of a mountain, right?

1435
00:41:21,735 --> 00:41:23,205
Like it's this beautiful place.

1436
00:41:23,210 --> 00:41:23,400
Yeah.

1437
00:41:23,715 --> 00:41:25,815
But the problem gorgeous
being on top of that mountain.

1438
00:41:25,875 --> 00:41:26,085
Yeah.

1439
00:41:26,085 --> 00:41:26,384
Right.

1440
00:41:26,595 --> 00:41:28,305
Was that we could see the
houses on the other side

1441
00:41:28,305 --> 00:41:28,650
of the mountain, Uhhuh.

1442
00:41:28,965 --> 00:41:29,205
Okay.

1443
00:41:29,445 --> 00:41:32,654
And they were way bigger, like
way, way, way, way bigger.

1444
00:41:32,685 --> 00:41:32,745
Yeah.

1445
00:41:33,134 --> 00:41:35,895
And I remember I was telling
Sarah, I was like, this makes

1446
00:41:35,895 --> 00:41:37,515
me feel like a giant loser.

1447
00:41:37,875 --> 00:41:38,835
And I said before we, yeah.

1448
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:40,049
Get to that.

1449
00:41:40,049 --> 00:41:43,650
I wanna point out that I'm in
goddamn Beverly Hills right now.

1450
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:43,799
Yeah.

1451
00:41:43,830 --> 00:41:45,900
Like I am quite at
the million food

1452
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:45,990
chain.

1453
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:47,370
Literal is so stupid.

1454
00:41:47,375 --> 00:41:47,525
Right,

1455
00:41:47,735 --> 00:41:48,365
right, right.

1456
00:41:48,450 --> 00:41:50,730
And, and I'm like, and
I'm sitting here going,

1457
00:41:51,060 --> 00:41:52,620
how messed up is this

1458
00:41:52,625 --> 00:41:52,685
uhhuh?

1459
00:41:52,830 --> 00:41:53,070
Right.

1460
00:41:53,070 --> 00:41:55,799
Like, I grew up on
welfare for Christ sitting

1461
00:41:55,799 --> 00:41:56,549
on top of mountain.

1462
00:41:56,549 --> 00:41:56,880
Right.

1463
00:41:57,420 --> 00:41:59,670
The, lemme play this
out every morning.

1464
00:41:59,940 --> 00:42:01,680
Um, we, we had these like
floor to ceiling windows

1465
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,720
that overlooked like this,
uh, this, this mountain.

1466
00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:03,900
Right.

1467
00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:07,020
And again, in all the other
houses, every morning I would

1468
00:42:07,020 --> 00:42:08,490
look at all the other houses.

1469
00:42:08,759 --> 00:42:10,680
Across the, the,
the Valley Uhhuh.

1470
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,839
And I'd be like, no
matter what I do today,

1471
00:42:12,839 --> 00:42:14,069
I will never have that,

1472
00:42:14,069 --> 00:42:14,580
never have one of

1473
00:42:14,580 --> 00:42:14,850
those, right.

1474
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:15,240
Yeah.

1475
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:16,950
That guy has it, right?

1476
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:17,189
Yeah.

1477
00:42:17,250 --> 00:42:19,895
And that guy has it, but
it'll never be me, not me.

1478
00:42:19,899 --> 00:42:21,899
And it was so disheartening.

1479
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:22,439
Yeah.

1480
00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:25,439
And again, I'm a pretty
pragmatic guy, so I wasn't like,

1481
00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:27,419
oh, I've, I'm entitled to all.

1482
00:42:27,419 --> 00:42:29,009
I'm like, dude, I, I didn't
even know how I got here.

1483
00:42:29,339 --> 00:42:33,509
But my point was, I was like,
because it had created this

1484
00:42:33,660 --> 00:42:36,509
new expectation that I didn't
have five minutes ago, it

1485
00:42:36,509 --> 00:42:38,250
was making me really unhappy.

1486
00:42:39,495 --> 00:42:40,725
That's it though, right?

1487
00:42:40,725 --> 00:42:42,405
I said at the top it's reality.

1488
00:42:42,405 --> 00:42:43,965
Divided by expectations.

1489
00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:44,330
Right?

1490
00:42:44,335 --> 00:42:44,505
Right.

1491
00:42:44,505 --> 00:42:49,275
So if your reality is a $10
million house, that's fine

1492
00:42:49,455 --> 00:42:53,235
until you start dividing it
by the $150 million houses.

1493
00:42:53,235 --> 00:42:53,325
Yep.

1494
00:42:53,355 --> 00:42:55,875
All of a sudden it
seems kind of shit.

1495
00:42:55,935 --> 00:42:56,265
Right?

1496
00:42:56,265 --> 00:42:57,055
It wasn't until then.

1497
00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:00,629
I remember being like, at some
point I was like, fuck this.

1498
00:43:00,690 --> 00:43:00,960
Right?

1499
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,020
Yeah.

1500
00:43:01,410 --> 00:43:02,970
And I knew it wasn't
gonna go away.

1501
00:43:02,970 --> 00:43:05,670
I'm sure a stronger, more
mentally stable person

1502
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:07,950
would've just been somehow
like, would, would've

1503
00:43:07,950 --> 00:43:08,970
figured it out on their own.

1504
00:43:09,060 --> 00:43:09,240
Yeah.

1505
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:10,290
But I wasn't that person.

1506
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:10,680
No.

1507
00:43:10,740 --> 00:43:12,480
And we pulled the stakes
and moved back to Ohio.

1508
00:43:12,569 --> 00:43:15,180
Uh, I was, I've
never been happier.

1509
00:43:15,205 --> 00:43:17,485
Yeah, and it wasn't
because I lowered the bar.

1510
00:43:17,485 --> 00:43:19,075
We actually ended up building
a more expensive house.

1511
00:43:19,585 --> 00:43:23,245
It wasn't 'cause I lowered the
bar, it was because I realized

1512
00:43:23,245 --> 00:43:27,115
that my expectations were
getting far beyond my needs,

1513
00:43:27,115 --> 00:43:29,275
far beyond like my capabilities.

1514
00:43:29,275 --> 00:43:29,335
Yeah.

1515
00:43:29,815 --> 00:43:31,915
The guy that built the house
across the, the mountain,

1516
00:43:32,095 --> 00:43:35,395
like founded Disney or found
it had been Walter Disney.

1517
00:43:35,395 --> 00:43:35,485
Right.

1518
00:43:35,485 --> 00:43:37,255
But like, you know, or
in this case specifically

1519
00:43:37,255 --> 00:43:38,575
was, uh, Channing Tatum.

1520
00:43:39,225 --> 00:43:39,464
Yeah,

1521
00:43:39,645 --> 00:43:42,345
like he and I definitely
didn't have the same career

1522
00:43:42,345 --> 00:43:44,265
arc, so that's why he has
the big house that I have.

1523
00:43:44,895 --> 00:43:45,520
Right house.

1524
00:43:45,645 --> 00:43:47,415
Like there's no way I'm
gonna be able to replicate

1525
00:43:47,415 --> 00:43:48,045
what that guy did.

1526
00:43:48,255 --> 00:43:48,615
Right.

1527
00:43:48,825 --> 00:43:54,105
And again, this mechanism
that artificially changes

1528
00:43:54,105 --> 00:43:57,375
my expectations to a point
where I'm making myself

1529
00:43:57,375 --> 00:43:58,845
miserable is the point.

1530
00:43:59,325 --> 00:44:02,475
I should have been like a pig in
shit over this whole situation.

1531
00:44:02,475 --> 00:44:02,654
Yeah.

1532
00:44:03,165 --> 00:44:06,404
And I wanted to be, and
I wasn't because again,

1533
00:44:06,525 --> 00:44:07,545
expectations were all broken.

1534
00:44:07,935 --> 00:44:08,265
Yeah.

1535
00:44:08,565 --> 00:44:10,695
Once those expectations are
outta line, then you, you

1536
00:44:10,695 --> 00:44:12,345
start to get, you're impatient.

1537
00:44:12,705 --> 00:44:13,875
You're dissatisfied.

1538
00:44:13,875 --> 00:44:15,165
You become anxious, right?

1539
00:44:15,165 --> 00:44:16,035
All these things.

1540
00:44:16,035 --> 00:44:18,465
And you, you can't just
be happy with what you've

1541
00:44:18,465 --> 00:44:20,715
already achieved or, you
know, and I think that

1542
00:44:20,775 --> 00:44:21,855
there's that aspect, right?

1543
00:44:21,860 --> 00:44:21,970
Mm-hmm.

1544
00:44:22,050 --> 00:44:23,655
Which is, you were sitting there
being like saying, I'm, I'm

1545
00:44:23,655 --> 00:44:24,090
not happy that I've achieved.

1546
00:44:24,875 --> 00:44:27,395
The one that also saddens me is
when I'm watching founders like

1547
00:44:27,395 --> 00:44:29,525
the two that I talked to this
week who had started to achieve

1548
00:44:29,525 --> 00:44:33,395
something, hadn't even realized
it because the expectation

1549
00:44:33,395 --> 00:44:36,245
that they set was so far outta
line with the reality of their

1550
00:44:36,245 --> 00:44:39,785
current business, and so they
weren't even able to see that

1551
00:44:39,785 --> 00:44:42,575
they were achieving success,
let alone be happy with it.

1552
00:44:42,859 --> 00:44:43,160
Right.

1553
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,109
And again, because we don't
have a good barometer, you

1554
00:44:45,109 --> 00:44:47,660
know, we don't have a, a good
meter to be able to say, hey,

1555
00:44:47,660 --> 00:44:50,390
exactly how far along am I,
you know, compared to others.

1556
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:52,819
We did an episode years
ago on this where we talked

1557
00:44:52,819 --> 00:44:54,920
about, it's hard for us to
know whether we're getting

1558
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,440
ahead because we can't really
calibrate to our peers.

1559
00:44:57,650 --> 00:44:57,770
Yeah.

1560
00:44:57,799 --> 00:44:59,990
And in, in the startup world,
even our peers don't know

1561
00:44:59,990 --> 00:45:01,040
like how far along they are.

1562
00:45:01,220 --> 00:45:01,460
Yeah.

1563
00:45:01,609 --> 00:45:04,970
If you are making payroll,
you are geometrically ahead

1564
00:45:05,150 --> 00:45:06,529
of most founders most, right?

1565
00:45:06,529 --> 00:45:06,589
Yeah.

1566
00:45:06,589 --> 00:45:08,779
If you are profitable,
you are geometrically

1567
00:45:08,779 --> 00:45:10,580
ahead of those that, that
are just making payroll.

1568
00:45:10,819 --> 00:45:10,910
Yeah.

1569
00:45:10,910 --> 00:45:11,190
Like, yeah.

1570
00:45:11,385 --> 00:45:13,035
When you get to that
point, I think this was the

1571
00:45:13,035 --> 00:45:14,025
premise of that episode.

1572
00:45:14,325 --> 00:45:16,335
When you get to the point where
you, you've built a profitable

1573
00:45:16,335 --> 00:45:19,755
company, you are in a fraction
of a fraction of companies Yeah.

1574
00:45:19,755 --> 00:45:21,345
That ever actually
make it there.

1575
00:45:21,615 --> 00:45:22,635
But you feel like shit.

1576
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:22,910
Yeah.

1577
00:45:22,910 --> 00:45:24,255
Because you're like, ah,
yeah, but you know, we

1578
00:45:24,255 --> 00:45:26,055
only make like a hundred
thousand dollars a year.

1579
00:45:26,535 --> 00:45:27,675
Yes, I get that.

1580
00:45:28,095 --> 00:45:28,305
Yeah.

1581
00:45:28,335 --> 00:45:31,245
But you also have to
realize that like that

1582
00:45:31,245 --> 00:45:32,775
is a massive milestone.

1583
00:45:33,165 --> 00:45:33,675
I understand.

1584
00:45:33,675 --> 00:45:34,575
It's not paying all the bills.

1585
00:45:34,575 --> 00:45:35,055
I understand.

1586
00:45:35,055 --> 00:45:36,855
It's like you being
happy doesn't like make

1587
00:45:36,855 --> 00:45:37,815
it worth twice as much.

1588
00:45:38,175 --> 00:45:38,385
Yeah.

1589
00:45:38,415 --> 00:45:40,605
But under you gotta at least
have some gratitude for.

1590
00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:42,180
What that milestone means.

1591
00:45:42,180 --> 00:45:42,240
Yeah.

1592
00:45:42,330 --> 00:45:45,600
I've found in my life that when
I'm aiming for something bigger,

1593
00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:48,990
if I am not grateful for all of
the little steps along the way,

1594
00:45:48,990 --> 00:45:50,190
I don't get to that big thing.

1595
00:45:50,250 --> 00:45:51,299
I've tried it, right.

1596
00:45:51,299 --> 00:45:51,900
I've tried it.

1597
00:45:52,025 --> 00:45:54,629
I, I tried to just aim
big and, and only do big.

1598
00:45:54,875 --> 00:45:55,225
Right.

1599
00:45:55,225 --> 00:45:57,690
Um, and at some point you, you
start to realize that those,

1600
00:45:57,690 --> 00:46:00,270
those big outcomes actually
come from just stacking

1601
00:46:00,270 --> 00:46:03,180
small earned expectations.

1602
00:46:03,660 --> 00:46:05,880
Long enough for the reality
catch up to the dream.

1603
00:46:06,090 --> 00:46:08,790
And that actually feels really
good and you get to enjoy

1604
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:10,620
it along the way too, which
is, I think, something that

1605
00:46:10,620 --> 00:46:12,990
so many founders are just
not doing right right now.

1606
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,140
They're deferring happiness, and
I can promise you there is no

1607
00:46:16,140 --> 00:46:17,460
interest earned on that account.

1608
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,540
And, and so just, you know,
aim a little small, look

1609
00:46:21,540 --> 00:46:25,500
aim big, but act small and
just take those little wins

1610
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:26,370
and keep, stack them up.

1611
00:46:26,370 --> 00:46:27,720
Be grateful for
them as they come.

1612
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:29,540
Then those are the springboard.

1613
00:46:29,540 --> 00:46:32,180
That is the step that
you use to take the next

1614
00:46:32,180 --> 00:46:33,200
leap, and that's fine.

1615
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:33,740
Yep.

1616
00:46:33,830 --> 00:46:36,410
And I think we are in the
business of expectations.

1617
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,360
I mean, hundred percent, quite
literally, startups are in

1618
00:46:38,660 --> 00:46:41,660
the business of expectations,
both for ourselves and

1619
00:46:41,660 --> 00:46:42,770
for the people around us.

1620
00:46:42,770 --> 00:46:43,040
Now.

1621
00:46:43,279 --> 00:46:45,680
I think when we set those
expectations, it's with

1622
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:46,670
good intentions in mind.

1623
00:46:46,850 --> 00:46:48,440
We wanna build great
things in the world, and

1624
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:49,640
by all means, do that.

1625
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,259
By all means, have
that aspiration.

1626
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:51,560
Yeah.

1627
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:52,550
To build big things.

1628
00:46:53,174 --> 00:46:54,975
In order to build big
things, we have to build

1629
00:46:54,975 --> 00:46:56,115
small things to get there.

1630
00:46:56,205 --> 00:46:56,265
Yeah.

1631
00:46:56,265 --> 00:46:57,735
You know, in order to move
a mountain, we gotta do

1632
00:46:57,735 --> 00:46:58,665
it one pebble at a time.

1633
00:46:58,875 --> 00:47:01,035
And I think part of our
expectations have to

1634
00:47:01,035 --> 00:47:02,505
be I will get there.

1635
00:47:02,715 --> 00:47:05,895
I will get there through a
series of successive wins, I

1636
00:47:05,895 --> 00:47:08,355
will be frigging relentless.

1637
00:47:08,384 --> 00:47:08,445
Yeah.

1638
00:47:08,754 --> 00:47:11,904
With my successive wins, but
I'm not entitled to the big

1639
00:47:11,904 --> 00:47:15,895
win unless I win every single
time, day in and day out.

1640
00:47:16,134 --> 00:47:19,674
The way to win the big, big
game is to win every single

1641
00:47:19,674 --> 00:47:22,194
game leading up to it, and
that's how you actually become

1642
00:47:22,194 --> 00:47:23,544
a champion in this business.

1643
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:26,460
Overthinking your startup
because you're going it alone.

1644
00:47:26,850 --> 00:47:29,730
You don't have to, and honestly,
you shouldn't because instead,

1645
00:47:29,790 --> 00:47:32,880
you can learn directly from
peers who've been in your shoes.

1646
00:47:32,940 --> 00:47:35,280
Connect with bootstrap
founders and the advisors

1647
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,710
helping them win in the
startups.com community.

1648
00:47:37,860 --> 00:47:42,510
Check out the startups.com
community@www.startups.com

1649
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:43,530
to see if it's for you.

1650
00:47:43,770 --> 00:47:44,820
Could be just the
thing you need.

1651
00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:46,020
I hope to see you inside.