WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:03.581 --> 00:00:12.871 Gene Tavernetti: Welcome to Better Teaching, Only Stuff That Works, a podcast for teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, and anyone else who supports teachers in the classroom. 00:00:13.701 --> 00:00:19.701 This show is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network shows that help you go beyond education. 00:00:20.121 --> 00:00:24.471 Find all our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com. 00:00:24.971 --> 00:00:27.731 I Am Gene Tavernetti the host for this podcast. 00:00:27.821 --> 00:00:35.711 And my goal for this episode, like all episodes, is that you laugh at least once and that you leave with an actionable idea for better teaching. 00:00:36.331 --> 00:00:38.881 A quick reminder, no cliches, no buzzwords. 00:00:39.216 --> 00:00:40.586 Only stuff that works. 00:00:41.620 --> 00:00:43.540 Today's episode is a little bit different. 00:00:43.810 --> 00:00:46.520 Actually, it's much different in that I don't have a guest today. 00:00:47.260 --> 00:00:54.830 I just have a few things, a few thoughts that I wanted to share with everybody as we wrap up the school year here in the United States. 00:00:55.890 --> 00:01:10.490 And one of the things that I've learned after I've done this work, working with, uh, schools as an outside consultant since 2003, is that I don't know exactly what works in schools. 00:01:11.010 --> 00:01:18.350 And when schools ask me, you know, what they can do, what, what's something that they know is gonna work, I, I don't know. 00:01:18.410 --> 00:01:21.770 Sometimes things work, uh, in particular ways. 00:01:21.800 --> 00:01:23.790 Sometimes they're not as successful. 00:01:24.600 --> 00:01:31.726 And I tell them, "I don't know exactly what's gonna work, but I can tell you some things that won't work." 00:01:32.696 --> 00:01:36.056 And I never volunteer those things. 00:01:36.666 --> 00:01:50.345 But if I catch wind of something that they're planning to do and I just wanna tell them, " I have a lot of experience with this, and I can tell you that is not gonna turn out the way that you think it's gonna turn out." How do I know that? 00:01:50.345 --> 00:01:51.675 Is it because I'm so smart? 00:01:52.285 --> 00:01:52.675 No. 00:01:53.265 --> 00:01:54.075 I'll reiterate. 00:01:54.125 --> 00:02:06.446 It's because since 2003, I've been watching these things, these initiatives come into schools and not be successful over and over and over again. 00:02:07.406 --> 00:02:18.636 And what I thought I'd do is to share a few of those things that I've seen schools do that have not been successful and, again, what to do instead. 00:02:19.059 --> 00:02:21.859 I think you'll have a opportunity to, to figure that out. 00:02:21.859 --> 00:02:26.859 I can give some, some things that I've seen in schools that did succeed. 00:02:27.359 --> 00:02:34.769 But again, I just don't want schools to move forward with things that do not work. 00:02:35.889 --> 00:02:37.169 And why is that important? 00:02:37.659 --> 00:02:47.659 It's important because we have teachers on our staffs who we label as resistant And I don't know if that's fair. 00:02:48.049 --> 00:02:48.909 I don't know if that's fair. 00:02:48.939 --> 00:03:02.294 I guess in the… If, if you took a moment in time and you said, "These teachers are resistant to X," I think you gotta go back and take a look at, the history of some of the things that have occurred. 00:03:03.554 --> 00:03:17.576 Some of the things that have occurred over and over again, and I'm not saying anything particularly new here, but I just wanna point it out one more time, and that is the whole idea of the initiative of the year. 00:03:18.786 --> 00:03:27.678 This year we're gonna be doing X, and how that X is many times, uh, rolled out to staff. 00:03:28.858 --> 00:03:44.898 Many times it begins in the beginning of the year when teachers are welcomed back, and usually a contract, a teacher's contract, uh, will have, uh, several days that they will be working without students before school starts. 00:03:46.198 --> 00:03:51.591 And a normal configuration of, let's say, three days might be, the day is devoted to district. 00:03:52.401 --> 00:04:02.980 And the district will talk about, any policies, anything new, and introduce initiatives that they want the entire district to adopt during that year. 00:04:03.490 --> 00:04:06.820 And so it's normally, again, a big, a big deal. 00:04:06.820 --> 00:04:12.639 The entire, the staff from the entire district is there, and they wanna kick off, that program. 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:22.699 Then there's a day for the schools, and then the schools have an opportunity to do what- whatever they need to do to get the s- teachers ready. 00:04:23.269 --> 00:04:33.309 And when I say get the teachers ready, it's usually maybe some procedures or maybe some things that show up as memes, like all the trainings that need to… 00:04:33.309 --> 00:04:39.179 the mandatory trainings that, that need to happen every year, that the teachers roll their eyes at. 00:04:39.679 --> 00:04:41.449 And, uh, I don't blame them. 00:04:41.797 --> 00:04:46.177 I don't blame them one bit for many of the things that, that go on there. 00:04:47.257 --> 00:05:07.447 But of all the things that don't work, that I can tell you are not effective, and that is deciding whatever your initiative for the year is, we're gonna start the year with a full-day training before school starts, before the students are there. 00:05:08.497 --> 00:05:12.127 Now, why do I say that's a bad idea? 00:05:12.547 --> 00:05:26.423 I'm, I'm gonna give you my perspective as an outside consultant Let's say that a school has determined or a district has determined that they want to, uh, do something about instruction, more effective instruction. 00:05:26.423 --> 00:05:30.573 Maybe it's, it's, uh, uh, things from science of learning. 00:05:30.643 --> 00:05:33.703 Maybe they want to develop, uh, an explicit teaching. 00:05:33.703 --> 00:05:41.504 Maybe there are just things that they, that they decided that, they wanted to do, and let's assume for the most part that they're good things, that they would be effective things. 00:05:41.852 --> 00:05:43.202 How do they introduce it? 00:05:43.613 --> 00:05:50.453 They introduce it usually in the worst time possible, and what's the worst time possible? 00:05:51.403 --> 00:05:57.369 Before school starts, where teachers are, excited about being back. 00:05:58.069 --> 00:06:03.009 They are anxious about getting in their classrooms to be ready for students for the first day. 00:06:03.009 --> 00:06:09.879 They are anxious about preparing their lesson plans for that first week, and so what do we do? 00:06:10.349 --> 00:06:17.609 We put them in a room all day and talk about what we're gonna expect for the year and to give a training. 00:06:18.599 --> 00:06:24.599 Now, let me tell you some reasons why I think that's a bad idea, and I'm gonna tell you this. 00:06:25.539 --> 00:06:28.589 I have given those trainings. 00:06:28.629 --> 00:06:40.981 I have led those trainings only after I have done everything I could to try to persuade the leadership in that school or that district not to do it. 00:06:41.791 --> 00:06:47.191 Do not have an all-day training just days before school is gonna start. 00:06:48.271 --> 00:06:54.201 Well, the teachers, the-- usually the argument from the school is, "Well, this is-- They're gonna be there. 00:06:54.231 --> 00:07:12.543 They're all gonna be there," and I tell them, "They're gonna be there physically, but their mind is gonna be someplace else," if this is so important, if this initiative is so important, why are we going to be providing it at one of the worst times when, when teachers are gonna have the least attention? 00:07:13.113 --> 00:07:15.363 So that's one reason why I think it's a bad idea. 00:07:16.483 --> 00:07:57.956 Another reason why I think it's a bad idea is just how these things are proposed, how they are introduced, what I'm gonna say next does not only apply just to, uh, beginning of year staff development, uh, professional development, but at any time, and someone from the district or from the site will stand up, and they'll, they'll introduce the new initiative, and then they'll say, "Oh, we're gonna be-- We're gonna have the pleasure of being, uh, uh, trained today in X," and, and then they'll say something to the effect of, "Now, I want you to remember, this is-- this may not be something that you use all the time, but you're gonna put it in your tool belt." 00:07:58.697 --> 00:08:00.087 And I just cringe. 00:08:00.377 --> 00:08:01.257 I just cringe. 00:08:01.327 --> 00:08:03.137 I'm thinking, "Wait a second. 00:08:03.767 --> 00:08:28.262 You're asking these teachers to give up prep time to be prepared to be with students, to provide all this optional material for them, and not even have an expectation that they are gonna be using it?" But I'm gonna tell you, I, I have some ideas what might be better, but I'm gonna tell you that is not gonna be effective, and it's not gonna be effective for two reasons. 00:08:28.262 --> 00:08:30.482 Number one, you've already told them that it's optional. 00:08:30.905 --> 00:08:33.635 we're not even looking for you to use it. 00:08:34.615 --> 00:08:48.105 Second reason it's not effective is that there's very rarely, if ever, any follow-up on what's discussed on that day, and if it is followed up, it's not followed up systematically. 00:08:48.685 --> 00:08:58.964 It's some sort of random randomized type of thing, and how else can you do it but some sort of randomized, check-in with teachers because you've told them they don't need to do it. 00:08:59.306 --> 00:09:13.757 So that whole day, that entire day that you have these teachers together, you decide this is the day when we have the least amount of attention when, when teachers may be here physically, but mentally they're someplace else. 00:09:14.267 --> 00:09:21.607 This is when we're going to, uh, give them their first taste of this new most important thing that we're doing all year. 00:09:22.061 --> 00:09:24.061 So if you have an opportunity 00:09:24.355 --> 00:09:42.988 leaders, school leaders, district leaders to provide that training at another time, I would do You're gonna be much better off providing a two-hour training or a three-hour training that's focused at a time that is not when the teachers have their mind on something else. 00:09:43.303 --> 00:09:46.083 So that's, that's the f- that's the first thing. 00:09:46.083 --> 00:10:09.151 Boy, if I could talk, if I could convince schools and districts not to have a full day training before school starts, that would be one of the first things, that I would do Another thing that, uh, when we're talking about resistant teachers, again, I, I think so much of what they-- th-their reason for resistance are reasonable and that we should listen to them. 00:10:10.111 --> 00:10:16.441 Now, th-this kind of piggybacks on the idea that we're gonna give a training with no follow-up that's optional. 00:10:16.721 --> 00:10:18.781 That's just put it in your toolbox. 00:10:19.901 --> 00:10:29.361 Talking to a teacher the other day and she said, "When they say put it in your toolbox, that means we're never gonna use it." So why are we spending that time? 00:10:29.951 --> 00:10:32.481 What needs to happen differently? 00:10:33.321 --> 00:10:39.399 Now, had an opportunity lately to work in a district with some teachers, and it was a cross-section of teachers. 00:10:40.089 --> 00:10:48.249 And teach-- When I say a cross-section, we had teachers who were in their second year, and we had some very veteran staff. 00:10:49.079 --> 00:10:58.552 And what we were working on in this district was, explicit instruction, evidence-based, uh, instruction, and then we followed it up with coaching. 00:10:58.936 --> 00:11:16.633 after the-- Well, it wasn't an, almost an entire year, nearly an entire year, we asked the group, like, "When did you kind of, uh, make a shift in your thinking that what we're doing here was gonna be a little bit different?" And it was, and it was interesting. 00:11:16.875 --> 00:11:22.855 you know, s-some people said, "Well, it wasn't the first day of training, but it was the second day of training. 00:11:23.805 --> 00:11:33.061 I realized that what we were being told, what this training was about was different." And, uh, I kind of laughed and I said, "The first day? 00:11:33.061 --> 00:11:35.021 You didn't, you weren't with us the first day? 00:11:35.261 --> 00:11:48.351 We couldn't tell." Again, this was an experienced teacher, uh, and had been to a lot of trainings, and it was clear by body language and some of the responses that they weren't, they weren't there yet. 00:11:48.911 --> 00:11:50.401 And so a couple teachers were like that. 00:11:50.401 --> 00:11:53.891 Is-- They said it was the second day we realized something was gonna be different. 00:11:54.314 --> 00:12:09.234 uh, some of the others said, "Well, it was the first time we did a coaching cycle," or, "It was the second time we did a coaching cycle." And then those teachers who said it was on the, the second day of training, these were experienced teachers. 00:12:09.274 --> 00:12:12.054 They said, "This is when we knew something was different. 00:12:12.544 --> 00:12:16.404 What was different this time is there was follow-up. 00:12:16.624 --> 00:12:17.564 There was follow-through. 00:12:17.998 --> 00:12:20.488 We had our principals involved in the training. 00:12:20.488 --> 00:12:22.628 We had district people involved in the training. 00:12:22.628 --> 00:12:28.268 We realized that, that this really was something that the district and the site was committed to." 00:12:28.428 --> 00:12:34.438 And then the, and then the third thing was the things they were training in, being trained in made sense. 00:12:34.528 --> 00:12:39.888 It made an impact, and they could see the impact on, on the positive impact on the students, you know, right away. 00:12:40.828 --> 00:12:44.448 So it wasn't that they bought in initially. 00:12:45.228 --> 00:12:53.878 They saw that what was different were the things that they were always upset about, was that, "Oh, you give us this training, and then there's never any follow-up. 00:12:54.417 --> 00:12:57.677 And then you make us sit through these things, and there's never any follow-up. 00:12:57.677 --> 00:13:17.260 You make us sit through these things when, when we've got other things on our mind." So I think one of the most important things, you know, when, when we talk about resistant teachers and we, and we look at those memes on social media, t-take a serious look at those things because there's a lot of truth in what they have to say. 00:13:17.260 --> 00:13:21.694 Teachers are upset about, a lot of things, and they are very legitimate. 00:13:22.544 --> 00:13:46.380 You know, a-another thing that we need to think about when we're working with teachers, and, and this is another reason getting back to that, uh, not to do that all-day training before school starts, is that, cognitive load, and we talk about cognitive load a lot when we're training teachers in explicit instruction, does not just apply to students It applies to everybody. 00:13:46.450 --> 00:13:47.650 It applies to adults. 00:13:48.050 --> 00:13:54.920 So when we're working with teachers all day, what are we trying to do? 00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:57.060 It's convenient for us. 00:13:57.520 --> 00:14:06.870 We, you know, w- w- we're making that decision to do this all-day training because it's convenient for us, not that it's best way to provide content to teachers. 00:14:06.870 --> 00:14:09.070 It's not the best way to, to teach. 00:14:09.070 --> 00:14:16.644 It's not the best way to provide practice, to rehearse, and, and all of those things that we know which makes, teaching and training effective. 00:14:17.050 --> 00:14:27.860 So there's just so many reasons not to do that, that one of those first day backs before the teachers, before the teachers get there. 00:14:28.670 --> 00:14:41.927 If it's important enough, if the content is important enough that everybody needs to know it, provide it at a time when everybody's gonna be most receptive. 00:14:42.417 --> 00:14:45.837 And again, it's no different for adults than it is students. 00:14:46.157 --> 00:14:47.217 So that's the first thing. 00:14:47.967 --> 00:14:50.937 The second thing is make sure there's follow-up. 00:14:51.241 --> 00:14:55.274 just like students, adults need to know what is important. 00:14:55.894 --> 00:15:04.044 How do you know what's important is if we continually come back to points being made, important points being made. 00:15:04.424 --> 00:15:12.664 Not only do we come back, but we provide training, we provide follow-up, we provide coaching, we provide check-ins. 00:15:13.074 --> 00:15:17.894 We provide those things that, teachers need just like students need. 00:15:18.714 --> 00:15:19.544 But here's the thing. 00:15:19.974 --> 00:15:21.854 Again, thinking of resistant teachers. 00:15:22.924 --> 00:15:27.324 Not every teacher needs the same type of support. 00:15:28.214 --> 00:15:31.434 Do all teachers deserve support? 00:15:31.854 --> 00:15:33.704 Yes, but it's gonna be very different. 00:15:34.434 --> 00:15:43.226 And I, and I always give this as a, as a very crude example, and it's, in a way, it's kind of like MTSS for teachers. 00:15:43.686 --> 00:16:00.136 And that is, if I'm working with an experienced teacher or an inexperienced teacher who is very, very skilled, my conversation with that teacher is gonna be very different than with a teacher who may be struggling in some areas. 00:16:01.136 --> 00:16:10.638 And so if we don't differentiate how we provide support for teachers, all of the complaints that teachers have They're valid. 00:16:10.878 --> 00:16:12.458 One size doesn't fit all. 00:16:13.448 --> 00:16:19.708 You can't come in and tell me how to teach if you don't know what I'm doing, and that's absolutely correct. 00:16:19.908 --> 00:16:31.798 And we always tell coaches, "Do not attempt to tell anybody, any teacher, how to get better without knowing what they already do." 00:16:32.998 --> 00:16:34.408 Everybody has their strengths. 00:16:34.468 --> 00:16:35.858 Everybody has their style. 00:16:35.888 --> 00:16:37.498 Everybody has their personality. 00:16:37.938 --> 00:16:48.008 And before you start working with a teacher about how to get better and following up on a training, you had better know who that teacher is. 00:16:48.435 --> 00:17:00.965 Instead of, like, who is this person, who is this teacher as a person, that's interesting to know, and, and maybe in the long run it makes it, uh, your, your relationship, coaching relationship with that teacher better. 00:17:01.305 --> 00:17:06.977 But I don't think that's the type of relationship that teachers really care about from somebody who's supporting them. 00:17:07.617 --> 00:17:09.407 They want somebody who's gonna respect them. 00:17:09.407 --> 00:17:11.207 They want somebody who's gonna respect their time. 00:17:11.207 --> 00:17:15.357 They wanna know somebody who's gonna respect, uh, what they know already. 00:17:15.715 --> 00:17:17.635 And they want you to be competent. 00:17:18.365 --> 00:17:25.447 When you help them And they're spending a half hour or an hour of their time, you'd better be able to help them. 00:17:26.727 --> 00:17:33.099 And if you can provide that support to a teacher in 10 minutes, do it in 10 minutes. 00:17:33.459 --> 00:17:38.077 You do not have to, extend the time just because that's what you had scheduled. 00:17:38.727 --> 00:17:45.666 And then I think that's, my final comment on this all-day, this all-day training before school starts. 00:17:46.881 --> 00:18:05.691 I'll be hired many times, and in, in the beginning, I used to acquiesce when, when somebody said, "Well, we're gonna start at 8:00, and we quit at 3:00." And, um, you know, whatever, wherever we were during the day, I would say, "Oh, I've gotta stretch this. 00:18:05.751 --> 00:18:11.701 I gotta stretch this time." And then when I became more experienced, I began pushing back. 00:18:11.731 --> 00:18:18.836 I said, "No, that's way too long a time." What do you think is gonna be happening, in those final hours? 00:18:19.146 --> 00:18:26.712 Most of the time, the most efficient and effective length of time for a training is maybe till 1:00. 00:18:27.492 --> 00:18:27.902 Maybe. 00:18:28.132 --> 00:18:30.902 You know, starting, you know, 8:00, 8:30 to 1:00. 00:18:31.102 --> 00:18:35.322 They have a chance to have a few minutes for lunch, come back, wrap things up. 00:18:36.062 --> 00:18:41.446 what the schools tell me is, "Well, we're gonna do that because that's their contract day." So what? 00:18:42.206 --> 00:18:43.916 So what that's their contract? 00:18:43.916 --> 00:18:51.476 If they're, if they have to stick around till 3:00, let's finish the training, send them back to their classrooms to do whatever they wanna do. 00:18:52.536 --> 00:19:07.934 And whatever they wanna do is usually what they need to do to prepare because let's face it, one of the most, uh, important resources that a teacher has is their time, and we don't wanna take that away from them. 00:19:08.044 --> 00:19:11.774 We have to respect the limited time they have. 00:19:12.294 --> 00:19:14.244 They're asked to do so many things. 00:19:14.324 --> 00:19:21.664 We cannot ask them to take on anything more that is gonna be outside of a contract day. 00:19:21.931 --> 00:19:28.870 And People, outside people, uh, principals, whomever, be familiar with that contract. 00:19:29.550 --> 00:19:31.210 That contract exists for a reason. 00:19:31.661 --> 00:19:39.381 respect the teacher, respect their associations, respect their unions, respect those things, and you know what's gonna happen? 00:19:40.161 --> 00:19:43.561 They're gonna see what you're asking them to do in a different light. 00:19:44.311 --> 00:19:46.291 They're gonna see that this is different. 00:19:46.411 --> 00:19:48.661 This isn't the initiative of the year. 00:19:48.661 --> 00:19:50.251 This isn't the shiny new thing. 00:19:50.251 --> 00:19:51.847 This isn't you know, the new thing. 00:19:52.477 --> 00:19:53.847 That this is gonna be different. 00:19:53.997 --> 00:19:56.497 So I'm gonna wrap up here. 00:19:56.976 --> 00:20:05.646 If you can do it at all, change what you're planning to do when the teachers come back for that back to school. 00:20:06.476 --> 00:20:17.256 Don't put the most important new content, the most important new training, during a time when teachers are not gonna be paying attention. 00:20:17.816 --> 00:20:23.136 That at, at best, you're gonna have split attention because they have so much to do to prepare for school. 00:20:24.074 --> 00:20:27.711 having said that, I hope got something out of this monologue here. 00:20:27.711 --> 00:20:35.388 Uh, it's just that, at, at this time of the year, as we're planning for next year, this is the time to make those plans. 00:20:35.388 --> 00:20:38.818 This is the time to let the teachers know, "This is different. 00:20:39.688 --> 00:20:47.382 We're gonna be introducing something, but we're gonna be introducing at a time that is more, amenable to having your full attention. 00:20:47.578 --> 00:20:52.412 We're gonna follow up at a time that doesn't make you have extra work. 00:20:52.892 --> 00:21:03.222 We're gonna support the work that you're doing." And I think if you do those things, just those things, I think the, those resistant teachers, you don't have to get them chocolate. 00:21:03.332 --> 00:21:08.358 You don't have to, you know, do many of the things that they talk about, these, these personal relationships. 00:21:09.068 --> 00:21:10.188 It's not about that. 00:21:10.738 --> 00:21:23.616 It's really about listening and paying attention to their valid concerns and doing what you can do to address those to make your new initiatives Different. 00:21:24.426 --> 00:21:25.966 This is going to be different. 00:21:26.396 --> 00:21:28.436 This isn't something for your tool belt. 00:21:28.648 --> 00:21:31.428 th-this is not something that you might use at some point. 00:21:31.888 --> 00:21:34.288 This is something that you're going to use. 00:21:34.318 --> 00:21:37.148 This is ultimately useful to you. 00:21:38.378 --> 00:21:39.158 All right, thank you. 00:21:39.198 --> 00:21:40.458 I hope you enjoyed this. 00:21:40.518 --> 00:21:47.288 I look forward to, uh, meeting many of you, uh, in the near future at some conferences that I will be speaking at. 00:21:47.658 --> 00:22:01.108 Uh, namely, I'll be in Atlanta at the end of, uh, this week and then in Houston, and then I'm very happy to be speaking with, uh, at Laura Stamm's conference in Wyoming, and I think that is in, that is in October. 00:22:01.438 --> 00:22:08.444 So thank you for listening and hope to see you soon If you're enjoying these podcasts, tell a friend. 00:22:08.744 --> 00:22:14.314 Also, please leave a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. 00:22:15.004 --> 00:22:25.084 You can follow me on BlueSky at gTabernetti, on Twitter, x at gTabernetti, and you can learn more about me and the work I do at my website, BlueSky. 00:22:25.494 --> 00:22:25.924 Tesscg. 00:22:26.914 --> 00:22:42.284 com, that's T E S S C G dot com, where you will also find information about ordering my books, Teach Fast, Focus Adaptable Structure Teaching, and Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles.