1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,970 Kevin Krall: You're listening to special programming sponsored by 2 00:00:02,970 --> 00:00:06,720 Stovall and Associates law firm. The content of this program does 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,800 not reflect the views or opinions of 91.5 Jas and more. 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,520 The University of Nevada Las Vegas or the Board of Regents of 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:16,770 the Nevada System of Higher Education. 6 00:00:24,870 --> 00:00:27,780 Leslie Stovall: morning this is Vegas law talk this Leslie 7 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:33,930 Stovall. Today I have Mr. John wanderer, who's been a dear 8 00:00:33,930 --> 00:00:38,310 friend of mine for many years as a guest. John, would you like 9 00:00:38,310 --> 00:00:43,590 say, hi. Hello, everybody. John, how long have we known each 10 00:00:43,590 --> 00:00:46,860 other? I think my recollection takes me back to the mid 80s. 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:49,950 John Wanderer: That's your recollection is pretty quick. 12 00:00:49,980 --> 00:00:53,160 It's vital that when you started practicing, I believe, Hey, 13 00:00:53,430 --> 00:00:56,790 Unknown: John, the other day, I saw a movie called Ford versus 14 00:00:56,940 --> 00:01:01,200 Ferrari. And I thought about you. I know you were part of the 15 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,710 Holman group or the Holman team, that have you seen that movie? 16 00:01:05,249 --> 00:01:10,559 I didn't see the movie brought back a lot of memories. Not 17 00:01:10,559 --> 00:01:13,889 exactly the most accurate movie on the world, but it was good. 18 00:01:13,979 --> 00:01:14,669 It was good movie. 19 00:01:15,180 --> 00:01:21,000 So John, John, tell me, what was your involvement with the 20 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,390 homeland group? And, you know, in the context of the movie, I 21 00:01:24,390 --> 00:01:29,250 think that movie dealt with the 1966 LeMans race and the GT 40 22 00:01:29,250 --> 00:01:32,880 project. So what was Homans involvement, and what was your 23 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:34,410 involvement with Holman at that time, 24 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:41,040 all under Modi, they were asked by Ford to undertake there have 25 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:46,230 a race. A number of the cars, basically in competition with 26 00:01:46,230 --> 00:01:53,730 Shelby American Ford was not that enamored by Shelby and Ford 27 00:01:53,730 --> 00:01:57,780 had done business with Holman and moody for many years. In 28 00:01:57,780 --> 00:02:00,750 fact, Holman and Moody was pretty much the national 29 00:02:00,750 --> 00:02:04,260 distribution center for all their high performance parts 30 00:02:04,260 --> 00:02:11,400 back in the early 1960s. So when Ford decided to do this, I had 31 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,820 been involved with a number of different projects within Holman 32 00:02:14,820 --> 00:02:18,930 and moody for Ford, Lexus, building their track cars, rally 33 00:02:18,930 --> 00:02:24,720 cars, nothing's in that nature. And home at Ford requested. The 34 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:30,240 John Holman put me in charge of the homeowner moody GT project 35 00:02:30,540 --> 00:02:34,170 for the 1966 and 67 LeMans. 36 00:02:34,980 --> 00:02:40,110 So what did what did Holman moody do with the GT 40 to meet 37 00:02:40,110 --> 00:02:40,770 that demand? 38 00:02:41,490 --> 00:02:45,600 Well, we first got the cars, I think we first got our first car 39 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,990 or second car, I'm not sure which I can remember. I do 40 00:02:48,990 --> 00:02:53,880 remember flying to California, with another person from home in 41 00:02:53,880 --> 00:03:00,660 a movie to assemble one or two cars. And as far as a race car 42 00:03:00,660 --> 00:03:05,010 goes, we thought there's a lot lacking here. One is profit. 43 00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:08,250 First problem was it was too heavy. And there were other 44 00:03:08,250 --> 00:03:11,580 problems with the cars. But Ford was taking care of those brake 45 00:03:11,580 --> 00:03:16,440 issues and things of this nature and transmissions. Ford ended up 46 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:21,930 developing drone transmissions they were developing with Kelsey 47 00:03:21,930 --> 00:03:26,520 Hayes company their own brakes. But in any event, we were we 48 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,060 were we took the cars, we got them back to Charlotte, we're on 49 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,980 Holman and Moody was located. And I was given quite a bit of 50 00:03:34,980 --> 00:03:40,440 freedom to do with the cars is as we felt was necessary to a 51 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,500 tournament to better race cars. 52 00:03:43,530 --> 00:03:46,350 What Where did the cars originally come from? You say 53 00:03:46,350 --> 00:03:48,330 you took delivery of a car. So that sounds like 54 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:53,790 the actual chassis of the car was built in England. It was it 55 00:03:53,790 --> 00:04:00,510 was a product of Lola company in England. All right. Sure. The 56 00:04:00,510 --> 00:04:07,110 design was done by Eric broadleaf. not mistaken. And and 57 00:04:07,110 --> 00:04:12,540 the cars were marketed as simply as a GT 40. They had a small 58 00:04:12,540 --> 00:04:16,260 block Ford engineering. They weren't particularly marketed as 59 00:04:16,290 --> 00:04:20,850 a race car. They were marketed and sold as a 60 00:04:21,269 --> 00:04:24,119 sort of sportscar watch car. Yeah. Yeah. 61 00:04:24,870 --> 00:04:28,440 We shall we first got involved with it. They tried to convert 62 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,430 the cut the streetcar into an actual race car. And they made 63 00:04:32,430 --> 00:04:37,200 certain changes to it. And then at some point in time, in 64 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,260 Detroit, there's a gentleman by the name of Roy one that will 65 00:04:40,260 --> 00:04:45,090 you in who ran who's an employee of Ford Motor Company, and he 66 00:04:45,090 --> 00:04:51,750 ran a an engineering shop called Car Craft. And he was very much 67 00:04:51,750 --> 00:04:57,570 involved with taking this standard GT 40 and making a race 68 00:04:57,570 --> 00:05:01,380 car out of it. And he was the one who Ultimately, after they 69 00:05:01,380 --> 00:05:04,470 decided the smallblock engine would not produce enough 70 00:05:04,470 --> 00:05:10,650 horsepower, that they used the 427 engines that were developed 71 00:05:10,650 --> 00:05:14,160 for the NASCAR side cars, right? Yeah, that's quite a different 72 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,860 motor than what was originally in that car. Absolutely, 73 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,540 absolutely. And had to be changes made to the chassis to 74 00:05:22,860 --> 00:05:25,110 hold that car. That engine, which was 75 00:05:25,710 --> 00:05:28,410 the cars, the cars that you're receiving at home and moody, 76 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,100 moody, were those 427 motors in those 77 00:05:32,610 --> 00:05:38,430 days, those cars were had been adapted for the 427 engine. What 78 00:05:38,430 --> 00:05:42,630 we did was go out to Shelby shop, there are some basic 79 00:05:42,630 --> 00:05:49,020 chassis, we hung the suspension pieces on it, fitted the body to 80 00:05:49,020 --> 00:05:52,800 it, and then took the cars back to Charlotte. 81 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,230 So what kind of things are you doing to the car in Charlotte 82 00:05:55,230 --> 00:05:58,080 before you started campaigning, or racing that particular 83 00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:58,440 vehicle? 84 00:05:58,649 --> 00:06:03,209 Well, from the very start, our objective was to make the car 85 00:06:03,209 --> 00:06:06,959 lighter and to make the car safer. The cars didn't have roll 86 00:06:06,959 --> 00:06:12,749 bars, the fuel cells that were in them quite heavy or the whole 87 00:06:13,019 --> 00:06:17,759 side, left and right side of the car. Between wheels is all fuel. 88 00:06:18,389 --> 00:06:22,949 And they had these very heavy fuel cells that apparently 89 00:06:22,949 --> 00:06:27,329 Shelby American had developed it acquired. And we felt that they 90 00:06:27,329 --> 00:06:31,919 were all too heavy, which wasn't wasn't part of our progress is 91 00:06:31,919 --> 00:06:37,349 to lighten this car up. Right. So we put first with the roll 92 00:06:37,349 --> 00:06:40,469 bars and we had lightweight fuel cells made from the Firestone 93 00:06:40,469 --> 00:06:40,949 company. 94 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,320 Well you change suspension pieces to did you know, 95 00:06:43,620 --> 00:06:47,700 we did change suspension piece if we had all our own springs 96 00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:52,590 made. The shock absorbers made. We had our own stabilizers made 97 00:06:52,590 --> 00:06:57,750 the cars ran at Daytona Beach. And because the engines in the 98 00:06:57,750 --> 00:07:01,140 rear of the car and and there's a lot of loading on the chassis 99 00:07:01,140 --> 00:07:06,900 and in the high band corners. We developed a an auxilary torsion 100 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:11,580 bar to go on the right rear to support chassis. If you put a 101 00:07:11,580 --> 00:07:15,210 spring in there was heavy enough to run through the high banks it 102 00:07:15,210 --> 00:07:22,020 would be too heavy. And the two heaviest spring in the LeMans 103 00:07:22,110 --> 00:07:28,500 flat part of the Daytona track. Oh I see. So it was lots of 104 00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:32,700 things we did the cars we the oil tanks was up front and meant 105 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:35,190 the oil lines had to come down through the passenger 106 00:07:35,190 --> 00:07:40,530 compartment made the inside of the car extremely hot. Best 107 00:07:40,530 --> 00:07:45,210 thing to do was move the oil tank rear. They had the 108 00:07:46,290 --> 00:07:51,510 aftermarket Stewart Warner fuel pumps that you can go buy at the 109 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:57,540 auto parts store the auto parts store, very unreliable. We went 110 00:07:57,540 --> 00:08:04,230 and sourced a an aircraft fuel pump the pump that was actually 111 00:08:04,230 --> 00:08:08,910 inside the tank, which in those days as far as automobiles go 112 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,920 unheard of. But we concluded if they're safe enough airplanes, 113 00:08:14,790 --> 00:08:16,380 they're safe enough for this race car. 114 00:08:16,860 --> 00:08:22,080 So how long after you got your cars? Did you come to race in 115 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,490 LeMans? Because the Ford and Ferrari show was about I think 116 00:08:26,490 --> 00:08:27,150 it focused on the 117 00:08:27,149 --> 00:08:32,969 60s 66 LeMans race actually, as soon as we got the cars. There 118 00:08:32,969 --> 00:08:37,529 was a race in Daytona Beach, which was referenced in the 119 00:08:37,529 --> 00:08:43,589 movie. We had two cars in that race. One had an automatic 120 00:08:43,589 --> 00:08:47,819 transmission that Ford was experimenting with the other 121 00:08:47,819 --> 00:08:52,769 car, ran in the race and actually finished second at the 122 00:08:52,769 --> 00:08:58,799 tone race. The next place we ran into cars was at Sebring where 123 00:08:58,799 --> 00:09:04,979 Ford won the race was a Shelby car. It was a a version of the 124 00:09:06,089 --> 00:09:11,519 GT 40. Mark Two was an open top car that Roy Leung had had 125 00:09:11,519 --> 00:09:16,469 built. Right. That car won the race set a new record. And 126 00:09:16,499 --> 00:09:18,029 Holman moody car finished second. 127 00:09:18,060 --> 00:09:25,050 So tell me about the LeMans 66 race that the show was based on 128 00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:30,270 or part of at least you how many cars did you take over to run 129 00:09:30,270 --> 00:09:30,840 that race? 130 00:09:31,740 --> 00:09:36,780 In 66, we built four cars. Three of them that were run by almond 131 00:09:36,780 --> 00:09:43,380 mot, they were all GT 40 Mark twos, the 427 engines, and a 132 00:09:43,380 --> 00:09:47,760 fourth car that we built to be run by afforda France. 133 00:09:48,180 --> 00:09:50,670 So what about Shelby how many cars they take for that six, 134 00:09:50,670 --> 00:09:51,240 six, right? They 135 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:52,470 took three cars over there. 136 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:58,680 So how did that race go? I mean, it seemed like a pretty exciting 137 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:04,410 race. From your perspective, what was what stood out to you 138 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:05,850 in the six to six months 139 00:10:06,450 --> 00:10:11,700 in the 66 bonds race is it was we I thought it was a pretty 140 00:10:11,700 --> 00:10:17,220 ordinary race. We had some different issues. We had 141 00:10:17,220 --> 00:10:24,990 problems with the brakes. Mons, you have a straightaway a little 142 00:10:24,990 --> 00:10:28,950 over seven miles one. You're dealing with cars that go over 143 00:10:28,950 --> 00:10:33,480 200 mile an hour and the end of that seven miles straightaways 144 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:39,060 are sharp right hand corner and the cars stencil breaking. If 145 00:10:39,060 --> 00:10:41,460 you were out there, you would see that these discs and these 146 00:10:41,460 --> 00:10:48,810 cars are red hot. What happened is reminds were 24 hour race. 147 00:10:49,470 --> 00:10:54,240 You racing to three o'clock in the morning. It's cold out lots 148 00:10:54,240 --> 00:11:00,150 of humidity. And the we found that the the desks were 149 00:11:00,150 --> 00:11:05,490 undergoing thermal shock and resulting in them flying apart 150 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,700 literally a piece of the iron flying off of the disk. 151 00:11:09,059 --> 00:11:13,229 How did you guys remedy that? Or were you able to you just kept 152 00:11:13,529 --> 00:11:17,519 kept changing discs? Right. Right. I wanted to ask you 153 00:11:17,519 --> 00:11:20,519 before we talked about the finish of that race, which was 154 00:11:20,519 --> 00:11:24,899 depicted in the movie. You would have told me in the past that 155 00:11:25,979 --> 00:11:28,469 Andretti was driving was he driving for Ferrari? 156 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,950 No. Oh and drive he was driving for 157 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,070 okay he did he have a crash during that race. 158 00:11:36,179 --> 00:11:42,719 He didn't crash in that race. He crashed in the 67 race I see 159 00:11:43,019 --> 00:11:50,099 which caused a chain link events which actually took out his car 160 00:11:50,399 --> 00:11:52,859 and two of the other cars at home are moody it built 161 00:11:54,660 --> 00:11:58,830 and you built cars for Andretti later on in your career with 162 00:11:58,830 --> 00:11:59,790 Holman moody, correct. 163 00:12:00,569 --> 00:12:04,499 I did. It was a circuit a sportscar series in the United 164 00:12:04,499 --> 00:12:08,879 States and then called the Ken Ham series. They were basically 165 00:12:08,879 --> 00:12:18,749 unlimited sports cars and the the the top cars in those days 166 00:12:19,199 --> 00:12:25,979 were the Chaparral was sponsored by General Motors right the plan 167 00:12:25,979 --> 00:12:30,959 clarens which also had sponsorship from financial 168 00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:35,489 health from General Motors. And Ford really didn't have a car in 169 00:12:35,489 --> 00:12:46,379 the in the race at that time with a car was designed in 170 00:12:46,379 --> 00:12:54,899 England by shoppers run by Alan man. Alan man is the guy who 171 00:12:54,899 --> 00:12:59,639 built the the car and for the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang movie. 172 00:12:59,669 --> 00:13:02,279 Right, right. The car you saw floating in the air with the 173 00:13:02,279 --> 00:13:05,189 wings on Yeah, and that was an actual car that Alan man had 174 00:13:05,189 --> 00:13:13,019 built for the movie. And Alan ban designed the cam car. Not he 175 00:13:13,019 --> 00:13:18,269 personally but I forgot the name of the actual designer. With 176 00:13:18,269 --> 00:13:21,689 that car was built with the idea in mind that Mario Andretti 177 00:13:21,689 --> 00:13:23,399 would drive it in the canyon series 178 00:13:23,490 --> 00:13:27,720 Eisley and so well Paul Newman was also part of that cannamd 179 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:28,170 racing. 180 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:33,090 Well, that's what got Paul Newman interested in. In racing 181 00:13:33,090 --> 00:13:37,530 at all. It was his first. That was his first introduction to 182 00:13:38,460 --> 00:13:39,540 sportscar racing. 183 00:13:39,630 --> 00:13:42,930 Well, that's really interesting. I want to go back to the six six 184 00:13:42,930 --> 00:13:48,900 LeMans. Did did Ford actually tell those cars to slow down and 185 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:49,890 come across together? 186 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,100 While we'd already told the cars to slow down because we wanted 187 00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:56,940 to make sure that they finished. And the competition by this time 188 00:13:56,940 --> 00:14:01,350 they dropped out. So the cars were lapping probably 10 seconds 189 00:14:01,350 --> 00:14:03,930 slower than what they would have been if they had been racing. 190 00:14:06,330 --> 00:14:10,590 And yeah, for dead for publicity purposes. They wanted the cars 191 00:14:10,590 --> 00:14:13,560 the front to to be in the picture of coming across the 192 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:16,980 finish line in the first three spots and had them line up that 193 00:14:16,980 --> 00:14:17,250 way. 194 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,040 Did that actually cause Ken Miles to lose that race? 195 00:14:20,580 --> 00:14:26,250 It did. Why can miles thought he was ahead. And he actually came 196 00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:31,410 across the finish line a couple of feet ahead of Christmas Amon 197 00:14:31,410 --> 00:14:36,720 or Bruce McLaren, who was in the other car thinking that he had 198 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,900 won the race because he crossed the finish line first. But the 199 00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:46,770 organizers of the race ruled to the contrary. They said because 200 00:14:47,460 --> 00:14:56,670 the Chris Amon Bruce McLaren car had had started further back in 201 00:14:56,670 --> 00:15:00,480 the pits behind the starting line that they had actually When 202 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,210 you took that into consideration, they had actually 203 00:15:03,210 --> 00:15:08,160 traveled a greater distance than the Ken Miles car. So they got 204 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:13,170 to win. That's terrible. And Ken Miles was very I understand very 205 00:15:13,170 --> 00:15:18,390 upset. I didn't have a lot of input. A lot to do with Ken 206 00:15:18,390 --> 00:15:20,790 Miles. I've been talking to him and he seemed like a very nice 207 00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:21,090 guy. 208 00:15:21,540 --> 00:15:27,240 Well, between 66 and 67 LeMans races. It was at when Ken Miles 209 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,890 died. Yes, not what you were actually present on the 210 00:15:31,890 --> 00:15:36,300 racetrack. One was, what what happened? What what car was he 211 00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:39,570 driving what happened to Ken Miles as he was driving 212 00:15:39,570 --> 00:15:46,260 a car that was called the J car. The J car was a creation of Roy 213 00:15:46,260 --> 00:15:50,820 Lund, who we spoke about earlier, right. And it was a car 214 00:15:50,820 --> 00:15:56,790 that was built out of aluminum honeycomb structure. And it was 215 00:15:56,790 --> 00:16:02,190 the the tub we call it or the chassis was actually built by 216 00:16:02,430 --> 00:16:07,590 for Ford, by Brunswick aerospace, right. And into this 217 00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:12,480 aluminum honeycomb structure. They had various brackets, which 218 00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:17,490 all the suspension was bolted to, et cetera. And that was the 219 00:16:17,490 --> 00:16:22,440 J card and the J car had a funny looking body on it didn't have 220 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:27,240 the greatest stability. It was light. It was fast. It basically 221 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,960 had the same engine as the as the mark twos did, that'd be the 222 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:38,220 427 427. Right? And so they were testing the car at Riverside, 223 00:16:38,220 --> 00:16:41,550 California on the road course, they had lost control of the car 224 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,260 at the end of the straightaway and went off the track. And the 225 00:16:46,260 --> 00:16:50,430 honeycomb structure basically all fell apart. And in Canada 226 00:16:50,430 --> 00:16:50,940 was killed. 227 00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:55,590 You were you were we were talking about this at one time. 228 00:16:55,590 --> 00:16:59,880 And you said you disagreed with the Ford analysis of what 229 00:16:59,940 --> 00:17:01,350 occurred in that crash? Well, 230 00:17:01,380 --> 00:17:05,700 it was no real Ford analysis. It was a test report from the 231 00:17:05,730 --> 00:17:10,680 Shelby American people. I have a their version was that there was 232 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,900 a mechanical part of the car broke, causing the crash. I saw 233 00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:20,520 happens that over the back stretch of Riverside Raceway, 234 00:17:21,390 --> 00:17:24,810 there was a pedestrian overpass which you could go on stand on 235 00:17:25,140 --> 00:17:28,710 and look at the cars as they went by. And myself and a fella 236 00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:32,250 by the name of Homer Perry, who was worked for Ford special 237 00:17:32,250 --> 00:17:37,050 vehicles, and was the person who was in charge of all of the 238 00:17:37,050 --> 00:17:40,740 LeMans programming. He and I were looking at the car as it 239 00:17:40,740 --> 00:17:45,330 went by. And it appeared to us that due to instability the back 240 00:17:45,330 --> 00:17:50,640 of the car came up, caused the car to spin out. And that's what 241 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:55,650 caused the accident. That was not in the show people report. 242 00:17:55,980 --> 00:18:01,770 And in fact, after Ken Miles's accident the frame was the 243 00:18:01,770 --> 00:18:05,040 honeycombed was constructed differently, or it was assembled 244 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:06,570 differently. Is that correct? Yeah, the 245 00:18:06,570 --> 00:18:12,390 first thing that happened was is is Ford put the car away. Ford 246 00:18:12,420 --> 00:18:17,640 Ford was very adverse to bad publicity. So the car 247 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:23,310 disappeared. And and that reappeared a number of months 248 00:18:23,310 --> 00:18:28,890 later, as a Ford GT mark four. And that's the car that you see 249 00:18:28,890 --> 00:18:35,700 winning, who actually won the 67 race. And if you saw the movie 250 00:18:36,090 --> 00:18:36,690 of 251 00:18:38,010 --> 00:18:39,810 Ford versus right, a Ford versus 252 00:18:39,810 --> 00:18:43,680 Ferrari, and at the end, there were Ken Miles got in the car 253 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,130 red car and drove off. And then you see the cloud industry 254 00:18:47,130 --> 00:18:55,680 crash. The car he got into was in fact, a marked mark for the 255 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,810 mark four it was really the jaycar Oh, the difference thing 256 00:19:00,810 --> 00:19:07,380 is is had a new tail and no longer had the the short, boxy 257 00:19:07,380 --> 00:19:12,300 tail that the jaycar head. And of course they did have made a 258 00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:18,990 lot of structural changes to the to the honeycomb chassis. So the 259 00:19:18,990 --> 00:19:25,470 problem never really occurred ever. When the car was recreated 260 00:19:25,470 --> 00:19:28,170 as the mark for it was no longer any 261 00:19:28,860 --> 00:19:33,240 chassis issues with what you told me they even riveted the 262 00:19:33,330 --> 00:19:34,440 chassis differently. 263 00:19:34,620 --> 00:19:38,490 They did start with the honeycombs chassis, which the 264 00:19:38,490 --> 00:19:43,230 honeycomb itself was about an inch, probably an inch, maybe an 265 00:19:43,230 --> 00:19:49,710 extra quarter inch a thick and originally, all of it was glued 266 00:19:49,710 --> 00:19:53,040 together. It was all flat panels and they were just glued 267 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:58,500 together. And then the the bracketry was riveted but not 268 00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:02,070 all the way through the honeycomb What's spacers between 269 00:20:02,070 --> 00:20:06,030 it stopped collapsing. Right? It was just riveted to the skin. 270 00:20:06,450 --> 00:20:11,160 And it was glued. Everything was glued. Right. So when the car 271 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:18,480 was recreated as Mark for all of the glue joints on the honeycomb 272 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,820 tub itself were reinforced with angle irons that were glued and 273 00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:27,630 riveted through all the way through the honeycomb. And all 274 00:20:27,630 --> 00:20:32,340 of the bracketry holding the holding the the engine, the 275 00:20:33,060 --> 00:20:38,010 suspension pieces, all of that was properly installed. blued 276 00:20:38,010 --> 00:20:39,030 and riveted always. 277 00:20:39,660 --> 00:20:42,690 How did your cars do and the C seven was raised? 278 00:20:43,649 --> 00:20:49,949 Well, we had the two Mark fours and the mark three and the 279 00:20:49,979 --> 00:20:58,889 Shelby had the same. The mark the with the mark for the Mario 280 00:20:58,889 --> 00:21:04,739 Andretti was driving one of the mark fours for us. And he ended 281 00:21:04,739 --> 00:21:11,159 up crashing. And when he did crash, just by coincidence, 282 00:21:11,879 --> 00:21:16,709 another one of our mark fours got swept up in the same 283 00:21:16,709 --> 00:21:23,969 accident, as did the mark two for Florida France. Oh, man, and 284 00:21:23,999 --> 00:21:28,709 that left us with only one mark to left. And it has some form of 285 00:21:28,709 --> 00:21:34,979 mechanical trouble and was out of the race. Shelby's cars. 286 00:21:35,609 --> 00:21:39,539 Their mark two fell out of the race. Their Mark, one of their 287 00:21:39,539 --> 00:21:44,129 mark fours fell out of the race. And the only car left was one 288 00:21:44,129 --> 00:21:49,889 mark four, which was really driven by Dan Gurney and AJ 289 00:21:49,889 --> 00:21:52,649 Foyt, they make it through and they won the race. 290 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,390 There you go. And those are really another set of drivers 291 00:21:57,390 --> 00:22:01,890 that were very well known and famous for their driving skills. 292 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:08,880 Wow. Well, you your work with Holman moody really sounds well, 293 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:09,810 it's very interesting. 294 00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:15,450 Lots of projects started out with the Falcon rally cars in 295 00:22:15,450 --> 00:22:25,500 1962. And then, I was in then we built 1964 We built the Mustang 296 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:29,340 rally cars. I was in charge of building those, went to Europe 297 00:22:29,910 --> 00:22:37,740 with them and actually drove one of the service vehicles and 298 00:22:37,860 --> 00:22:43,050 stopped along the way and, and fixed the Porsche was being 299 00:22:43,050 --> 00:22:48,390 driven by Ferdinand Porsche. All right, I fixed it as a shock 300 00:22:48,390 --> 00:22:51,450 absorber amount had broken I stopped and fixed it for 301 00:22:51,810 --> 00:22:55,470 well, you from rally cars, you went to funny cars. Well, I call 302 00:22:55,470 --> 00:22:57,930 him funny cars. I think you had a different designation for him. 303 00:22:58,889 --> 00:23:02,609 They have Ford abilities, saying a little head game cam engine 304 00:23:02,609 --> 00:23:08,339 for 20 sevens for use in NASCAR and NASCAR wouldn't allow him to 305 00:23:08,339 --> 00:23:15,119 run them. So Ford decided to use them as drag cars. And they sent 306 00:23:15,239 --> 00:23:22,229 10 Mustangs down to Homer moody and I was in charge of modifying 307 00:23:22,229 --> 00:23:26,189 the cars to put these engines in them and altering the wheelbase 308 00:23:26,189 --> 00:23:31,289 on rear wheels and move forward three or four axes completely 309 00:23:31,289 --> 00:23:34,769 different front suspension in order to get the cars at the 310 00:23:34,769 --> 00:23:39,179 entrance into cars. So we built those 10 Those went out to 311 00:23:39,179 --> 00:23:48,779 factory for drivers around the country and and then and then 312 00:23:48,779 --> 00:23:54,239 the some of the those cars were called FX cars factory 313 00:23:54,239 --> 00:23:57,419 experimental. And 314 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,350 those are the ones you'd see on the just a drag race right 315 00:24:01,350 --> 00:24:02,220 straight quarter mile 316 00:24:02,220 --> 00:24:05,430 straight quarter mile drag race now pretty much pretty much 317 00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:08,820 standard looking Mustangs. Yeah, I had fiberglass fenders on 318 00:24:08,820 --> 00:24:11,790 fabric as decklid and these big very large engines. 319 00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:15,240 Yeah, but they were cranking it on a quarter mile. Yes, they 320 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:15,480 were. 321 00:24:18,090 --> 00:24:25,890 But they they evolved into a tirely different car. After we 322 00:24:25,890 --> 00:24:29,970 built those 10 I was in charge of building for more of the 323 00:24:29,970 --> 00:24:35,250 cars, which had extended front wheelbase the front wheels were 324 00:24:35,250 --> 00:24:39,780 moved I think 18 inches forward. So had very long goods, the 325 00:24:39,780 --> 00:24:43,230 engines will move back. The bodies were now totally 326 00:24:43,230 --> 00:24:49,590 fiberglass. There wasn't nothing on the cars that came off of a 327 00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:52,920 Mustang. Though they did look like a Mustang because there 328 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,930 were funny cars. Nowadays, the funny cars don't look like the 329 00:24:57,930 --> 00:25:03,390 car anymore, right? And those days and the night 19 6060 Force 330 00:25:03,390 --> 00:25:09,660 1965 the NIHR rules were pretty strict, the car still look like 331 00:25:09,660 --> 00:25:10,080 a car 332 00:25:10,140 --> 00:25:12,090 and where the term funny car come from. 333 00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:19,200 I'm not sure where it's picked up. I guess it was just because 334 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,470 the deviation from the standard car 335 00:25:24,510 --> 00:25:29,970 was funny. It was funny looking. Yeah. And from your funny car 336 00:25:30,180 --> 00:25:33,600 project, then you went to the GT 40 project. Is that correct? 337 00:25:35,970 --> 00:25:40,110 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yah, yah, yah, I was put in charge of 338 00:25:40,110 --> 00:25:43,500 the GT cars after the track cars. And then after GT, you 339 00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:47,580 went to the cannamd. Then we built the cannamd car for Mario 340 00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:51,810 Andretti. And after that, what did you do after that? That was 341 00:25:51,810 --> 00:25:57,720 the end of that was beginning around 1968. And that's when 342 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,590 Ford decided it was going to stop racing on anyway, when for 343 00:26:01,590 --> 00:26:09,360 when Ford when Ford quit racing and 68. They actually did some 344 00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:15,990 racing and 68. They built another can Amkor. But they, 345 00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:21,780 they stopped all of the they stopped all of the GT race 346 00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:26,250 stuff. And stuff you were doing. The stuff that I was doing is 347 00:26:26,250 --> 00:26:30,780 that when you went to law school, as soon after, I stayed 348 00:26:30,780 --> 00:26:34,890 all through 68. And John Holman, decided that he could make a lot 349 00:26:34,890 --> 00:26:43,350 of money, taking wrecked diesel trucks, and wedding different 350 00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:48,960 frames together and making one out of two pieces. And the end. 351 00:26:50,730 --> 00:26:53,550 So we did that for a while. But I didn't have a lot to do with 352 00:26:53,550 --> 00:26:57,870 that. Right It was going on. So I decided that it was time for 353 00:26:57,870 --> 00:27:06,450 me to move on. And so on January 119 60, and I'm packed up and 354 00:27:06,450 --> 00:27:11,550 left and left on good terms at home. And when it came time to 355 00:27:11,550 --> 00:27:15,990 go to law school when I use the money. John Holman just sent me 356 00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:16,350 money 357 00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:18,600 that was very generous, and 358 00:27:20,190 --> 00:27:23,880 ultimately sent it back and gave it back to them. But there's no 359 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,420 strings attached only strings attached was he says, If I gave 360 00:27:27,420 --> 00:27:29,070 you the money, you will maybe you'll come back. 361 00:27:30,450 --> 00:27:31,530 Sounds like a nice guy. 362 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:32,730 You're a nice guy. 363 00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:40,920 You in fact, are featured in the history of John of Holman moody. 364 00:27:41,130 --> 00:27:42,000 There's a book 365 00:27:42,689 --> 00:27:47,879 out there is there is in that book pretty extensively, 366 00:27:47,970 --> 00:27:51,870 right? Was Dottie involved in writing that book, by the way, 367 00:27:52,110 --> 00:27:56,220 no. Daddy's Daddy, 368 00:27:56,250 --> 00:28:01,440 Daddy, Daddy Parker at the time, and then was Daddy wonder. She 369 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,710 was John Homans executive secretary. That's how you met. 370 00:28:05,220 --> 00:28:16,530 That's how I met Dottie. And we were married in 1860 67. I 371 00:28:16,530 --> 00:28:16,920 believe 372 00:28:17,010 --> 00:28:20,040 I have nothing but fond memories of Dottie. She's a wonderful 373 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,810 person. wonderful person. 374 00:28:22,020 --> 00:28:24,450 She almost didn't marry me because I wouldn't take her. 375 00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:28,500 Did you take her to Mons? Oh, oh, 376 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:35,730 no, I wouldn't. I had decided that nobody would go from Holman 377 00:28:35,730 --> 00:28:39,960 and moody, who didn't have a specific job need to be there. 378 00:28:40,980 --> 00:28:44,760 There were a lot of different employees thought that they 379 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,960 should give me a comment. I said no, no, no. There 380 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,950 you go. John, I've really enjoyed talking to you. I'd like 381 00:28:52,950 --> 00:28:56,250 to invite you back. Would you be willing to come back? Sure. 382 00:28:56,460 --> 00:28:59,490 Well, that'd be wonderful. Again, it's so nice seeing you. 383 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,190 It's always a pleasure. Thank you very much, John. 384 00:29:02,370 --> 00:29:03,660 You're welcome. Good to be here. 385 00:29:03,780 --> 00:29:04,260 Thank you.