Lindsay: Welcome to the Lifting Lindsay podcast, man.
Today I am super excited to be here with Dr.
Darren Candow and we are gonna be talking about all things creatine.
Is that right?
Darren: That's, uh, that's the plan.
Yeah.
Lindsay: Awesome.
Okay.
I'm gonna have you introduce yourself to my listeners.
Just tell me a little bit about your background and how come you are the
person to talk to about creatine.
I.
Darren: My name is, uh, Darren Candle.
I'm a professor in the faculty kinesiology and health studies, uh,
at the University of Regina in Canada.
I have a few degrees.
I did an undergrad degree in biology at Acadia University in, in Canada
as well, and my graduate degrees, uh, where at the University of Saskatchewan,
under the mentorship of, uh, Dr.
Phil.
So a lot of people in the creatine area will know that name as well.
Uh, I kind of got into creatine supplementation through a colleague.
Uh, I was doing my master's on amino acid called glutamine.
And he was interested in the organic acid, creatine and, uh, glutamine
ended up being, uh, sort of worthless.
And I got, you know, a little sad and dejected and then, uh, started to
know really beneficial effects with creatine, primarily in young adults.
And then it sort of paved the way for going from athletes all the way
to clinical populations from, uh, elderly to, uh, specific focal points.
So it's been very interesting where around the 1990s, creatine
sort of got its momentum.
Then it went away after we thought we knew everything.
And now I'm sure we'll talk about today the very diverse aspects
that creatine can be used, is it for everybody, things like that.
So, uh, excited to be here and thanks for the opportunity.
Lindsay: Yeah, I'm so excited about this.
So yesterday I posted on Instagram.
What questions, concerns do you have about creatine?
It's interesting because I got so many, I.
Very, very good questions, I feel like.
But it's interesting because as a coach, a hypertrophy, fat loss coach,
I work with both men and women, and it's interesting because I'll
tell men to start taking creatine.
They don't have a problem with it.
They don't think twice.
Awesome, do it.
Women.
It's like, no, let me pull out a whole list of reasons why I cannot do this.
It's horrible for me.
So I'm so excited to have you on here and we're just gonna break
down everything, but I wanna start from the very, very, very bottom,
like the very, very foundation.
What is even creatine?
Darren: So creatine is technically an organic acid.
It's kind of like a protein that we would eat.
Uh, it's very similar.
It's made actually, or, uh, from reactions involving three amino acids, uh, from all
the protein, uh, foods that we do eat.
So we naturally produce this little compound in reactions in the
kidneys and liver and the brain.
So everybody that's listening is synthesizing this.
Uh, compounded about a one to three grams per day.
Um, we also consume about a few grams, uh, through red meat, seafood, or poultry.
So I think later on we'll talk about is it a difference between
vegans and vegetarians versus those on a carnivore, omnivore diet.
But I think most people are very familiar with the powder creatine supplementation
they see on stores or on social media.
So at the end of the day, this compound, it was discovered in 1832, basically
helps assist energy of ourselves.
So when we're exercising, uh, shoveling the driveway, running, lifting weights.
This little compound helps sacrifice itself, so to speak, to help
maintain energy, to allow us maybe to do a little bit more work.
And then if we do more work in the gym or on the track or wherever it is, over
time, you start to notice adaptations.
So it used to be called creatine makes an individual bigger, stronger, faster.
Now it's taken on a whole nother, uh, pivoting, perspective
from the health aspects.
And yes, females are very, very hesitant to take creatine.
We can take or talk about why that is, why we think it is, and some
ways that we may be able to sort of get across the stigma and sort
of get individuals to consider it.
Lindsay: Okay, so let's talk about that then.
Why is it that females are so hesitant?
What have you heard that they struggle with?
Darren: So it's based on three things.
So the initial recommendations with creatine came out in the late 1990s
and they said, Hey, this is kind of designed for athletes wanting
to get bigger or stronger, faster.
So let's go ahead and super saturate the body with creatine and see if it works.
And yes, it's, this is called the creatine loading phase.
It's on all the supplement labels that you could buy.
What it means is they want you to take 20 grams a day for up to seven days.
Now the interesting thing with creatine, it's an osmotic compound.
That means it likes to shuttle water from an area of high
concentration to an area of low.
So where is water found in our body?
It's the bloodstream.
And now it likes to take water from the blood into our muscles.
So a lot of individuals would say, Hey, geez, I've been on creatine for five days.
I noticed on the scale I went up by a few kilograms.
My shirt or clothes feels a bit tighter and I just feel a little bit bigger.
And I say, well, that's kind of the physiology behind creatine because
you're taking such a high dose.
Um, now to a young male that might be great to a young female.
Independent of your menstrual cycle, when you go on the scale and after
five days, you've gained five pounds.
Very rare does a female say, I love this.
More times in our lab.
They say, I don't like this at all, and we'll talk about
strategies, how to alleviate that.
So the first thing to be aware of, it's just a acute water retention.
It goes away after about two weeks, and primarily in females.
This is great when you take, an individual, a young female or an older in,
uh, female, and you measure them before creatine and then after few weeks, even
months, their weight is almost identical.
So one thing to be rest assured is weight barely changes.
But the other interesting thing is leading to the second most popular
reason why I think females don't take creatine is they think it improves
fat mass or increases body fat.
We've now clearly shown with all the evidence, when you combine creatine
and exercise, you get a decrease.
It's very small, but you do get a decrease in body fat.
So at the end of the day, if you put on lean mass, decrease
fat mass, that's probably why weight will not really fluctuate.
So I would highly recommend to any female, uh, um, watching that is
sensitive to weight fluctuations.
Do not, I repeat, do not do the loading phase.
I'll give you a strategy that we think is really beneficial, but does not cause
that excessive amount of bloating or gi tract irritation is the other main
reason during, uh, the loan phase.
Lindsay: What causes that with the GI tract?
'cause that's, that's another one that I get a lot, of questions about.
It's like, yes, the water weight, the water retention, it drives body fat up.
And then I had some gut issues with it.
Darren: Yep.
Lindsay: What can we do about that?
Darren: So creatine is a very unique compound.
So the pH of our stomach is about one to 2.5 to three at best, so very
acidic hydrochloric acid, and we have a lot of enzymes, but creatine
only starts to break down when pH is above that, so it remains intact.
It sort of can get through the, acid of our env, our stomach very easily,
but when it gets through the small intestine and then eventually wants
to leave, it takes water with that.
So it indirectly is taking water from the gastrointestinal track or digestive tract.
So that's why a lot of individuals may get diarrhea.
Some bloating or muscle cramping or some GI tract irritation as well.
And that's why it's highly recommended take an increase in fluid, primarily
water when you're on creatine.
And again, if you're taking the loading phase, that's 10 times as much as we're
probably making it kind of makes sense.
That's why it would have some adverse effects.
So make sure we talk about probably an alternate strategy, which I think
is more viable, that will maintain adherence and probably reduce the
chance of bloating and water retention.
Lindsay: So I actually have never done a loading phase.
I've taken creatine for years and years and years.
I never did a loading phase, and so I never experienced a lot of these things
that that women are complaining about.
I.
But loading phases in, you know, the hypertrophy world are taught
that that's the only way, and I usually tell women not to.
So now I'm even more curious.
What do you usually tell people to do?
Darren: So it, that's an important distinction.
So the loading phase is super effective.
It's the most rapid way to saturate your, your muscles.
Uh, at the end of the day, we're probably starting out between 70 to 80%
of our muscles are full of creatine.
Supplementation may give you an extra 20 to 40%.
So it's like your living room.
It's three quarters full of creatine.
When you take a supplement, you get a bit more.
Um, so the loading phase is very effective, but as we just mentioned,
some of those adverse effects.
To help recruit or inspire people to take at a more consistent
level, there's probably two other strategies that have been very well
documented to be safe and effective.
Let's start with the easiest.
You can take as little as three grams a day, and that will full
fill up the room in about 30 days.
So we talked about the loading phase after about seven days, but
actually after two days of the loading phase, your muscles are full.
But usually studies will do seven days.
If you take a little as three grams a day for 30 days, that'll have the same effect.
So now a female or young male listening say, wow, I can do
the loading phase if I want.
Or I can take a really small dose, just needed a little,
be a little bit more patient.
So for those considering creatine for the lifelong journey and the health
benefits from a muscle perspective, again, this is not from a bone or brain.
You can take as little as three grams a day.
I'm sure even if you reduce it to two, that would've eventually accumulate.
Now, here's the other cool thing.
You can take three grams, which is a half a teaspoon at one serving, or you
could probably break it up into two 1.5 servings in the morning and evening.
The timing is essentially irrelevant.
You take it when it's convenient, but also one of the other things I
recommend is to take it with food.
So if you're having like yogurt in the morning, just throw it in there.
There's no taste of creatine.
Um, you can drink it, but a lot of people in our lab, when we give it or
recommend it with food, they say, yeah, I didn't even notice I was taking it.
So again, three grams, you can bump it up to five.
But from a muscle perspective, five seems to be the maximal amount
anybody on the planet may need.
And that's without a loading phase, so that's No, you're just starting day one.
Three to five grams a day.
That's plenty.
It'll just take a little bit more time.
Lindsay: Okay.
Is there another one?
So the loading, what does the loading usually look like?
Let's explain that one
Darren: Yeah, it's about 20 grams a day and you break that up into four
or five gram dosages for seven days.
Then on starting on day eight, you'd drop it down to about two to five grams
a day to maintain what's in our muscle.
We don't do that.
We can, and we will be looking at the really small dose, like talked about.
The one that's most popular in our lab is a relative dose.
So if me and you go on the scale and just say you're 50 kilograms and I'm 70.
It's probably logical.
I might have a bit more muscle.
That's the theory.
And so the bigger the muscle is, that has more of these
doorways that allow creatine in.
So we use 0.1 gram per kilogram all the way up to 0.15 gram
per kilogram in older adults.
So if we do the quick math, if you're 50 kilograms, you're
only getting five grams a day.
But I'm a little bit bigger and just say if I was only 70 kilograms,
I would get seven grams a day.
If you have a professional athlete, a hundred gram or a hundred
kilograms, they get 10 grams a day.
So we've understand the premise behind that, and we've shown that
those to be very safe and effective.
Lindsay: Well, that brings me to another view.
Well, I have so many is it even necessary?
Is it even beneficial if we already create and can get it from proteins?
Like why, even if somebody just is lifting as a lifestyle, trying to lose a little
body fat, is it even important for them?
Darren: It's substantially not required, in the younger years,
you're naturally producing enough, and the best way to support this is
how are vegans and vegetarians so healthy without creatine, and it's
because you're naturally producing it.
So at the end of the day, is it absolutely required, like protein?
No, because we naturally can't produce it.
We can't produce those nine essential amino acids.
But research has clearly shown that a slightly little bit more, that
accumulates can unlock the potential, but we don't know if that's the fact,
when you get into the fourth decade and above, when we're starting to
have a reduction in muscle mass and natural brain creatine concentrations
is cre essentially required?
There's some speculation, it it can be, but at the end of the day,
if anything is being made in the body, in theory, it's not essential.
So that's why it, it's not like protein where you need
those essential amino acids.
Lindsay: But it is, we have so much research on creatine, I would say.
Um, I could be wrong on this, but more research on creatine
than any other supplement that I've, I've ever dealt with,
Darren: Yeah.
It's taken over from caffeine.
Now is the most, uh, research ergogenic aid on the planet.
Lindsay: So we know the most a about this.
And what I find very interesting is that many doctors say that it's
bad for kidneys, so I wanna talk about it being bad for kidneys.
Another woman wrote to me and said, her doctor said anybody under 18
shouldn't take it, that it will have adverse effects and anybody over 30,
shouldn't take it.
So what you're talking about with age, we can actually see more benefits,
I feel like with older populations, if you can even call 30 old.
Come on.
Right.
But, um, that was an interesting one from a doctor.
Darren: So this is, well, the one over 30 is nonsensical from
an evidence-based perspective.
But let's start with the, the kidney one.
'cause that is a very, probably the second most popular myth next to
baldness, which if you look at me, it's like, oh God, I must go we'll.
So this is really important for those taking creatine or thinking of it.
You need to tell your doctor, and I'm assuming your nephrologist or GP is gonna
have enough education during medical school to understand the basic principle.
So when you take in creatine and it gets trapped in your muscle or brain,
it gets broken down when you use it, but it does not get broken down as creatine.
It gets broken down to something called creatinine, and everybody
listening is like, oh, I just saw that name on my blood requisition form.
And you're like, oh, I kind of now understand.
So please know when you take creatine supplementation, it's highly likely
you're gonna have an increase in something called blood creatinine.
And they use this metabolic byproduct to estimate kidney function.
So it's kind of like a water filter on a Brita or something you're drinking.
If the, the filter is not working properly, things are gonna accumulate
in, in the reservoir of the, the water bottle, or in this case, your bloodstream.
So creatine does often lead to high blood creatinine, which gives
a false positive or indication that your kidneys are failing.
When you stop taking creatine, everything goes back to normal, so you could
conclude it's the supplement just being broken down and metabolized.
Now, as, again, I'm not a medical practitioner, but from the
physiology, it does make sense.
If you take creatine, you're gonna have more of this in the blood,
and that gives a false positive that your kidneys are not working.
So make sure you please tell your doctor that so there's no alarm and and stress.
The second part of your question is in children.
So there hasn't been a lot of biomedical evidence from a blood, uh, perspective
in children, but there's good researchers in the United States that have clearly
shown creatine at recommended dosages, maybe three to five grams, uh, has been
very safe from a subjective standpoint.
No gi tract irritation, headaches, nausea, excessive weight gain, anything like that.
And it has been shown to improve sport and exercise performance.
They're currently looking at blood right now and that paper will come out uh,
shortly, but I would be shocked to be honest if there's any adverse effects.
'cause we've already talked about it.
Our body recognizes it, our body produces it a little bit more, just
will be excreted down the toilet.
For the doctor who said above 30 people shouldn't take creatine.
That actually goes against all the entire body of research.
If any population that may want to consider it is as you get older,
because creatine is primarily found in our large muscle fibers.
Uh, we actually see a reduction in the amount of creatine in our muscles, and
we have heightened metabolically stressed with bone loss and, uh, abnormalities
and brain function with aging.
And that's where creatine seems to have an effect.
So maybe the doctor misspoke, but after the age of 30 is when you
really should be considering it.
Um, not, not considering it.
Lindsay: That's really fascinating.
When we talk about sports muscle, a lot of us know, okay, this can
be beneficial, but, but we've come to find that, um, it exceeds that.
Right?
So let's talk about some of the other, uh, benefits that we're finding in creatine.
Darren: Okay.
Yeah.
So in brief summary, in combination with exercise, primarily weightlifting.
It's definitely been shown, uh, been shown to improve muscle
mass strength and performance.
It also has improvements now in a novelty of improving exercise recovery
even for the aerobic athletes.
So that's a new area of population for soccer and running and mul ultra marathon.
It really seems to improve recovery.
They allow you to continue to to participate.
The big area, especially for young females leading into older uh, phases,
pre menopause and perimenopause and post menopause, is we've now
clearly showed that creatine in combination with exercise has very
favorable effects on the skeleton.
Primarily bone strength and bone mineral density around the hip region.
And, and that's an area that if you were to fall and, and and get a hip fracture,
it leads to inactivity and immobilization.
So there's some promise now in older individuals, we don't see a
lot in younger probably 'cause the skeleton is already so healthy.
But that's an area for postmenopausal females for sure.
Um, uh, that creatine in combination with exercise can have some
small but yet favorable effects.
And I think the biggest area is the neck up.
We're now seeing some good promise for co cognition and memory in older adults.
It's been shown to speed up recovery in concussion in children.
And now there's hope it can have some improvements in neurological conditions
such as Alzheimer's, dementia.
Um, so I think the next 20 years will go not from the neck down, but the neck up.
And then the other big area is pregnancy.
Good researcher in Australia is now looking at the benefits not only for the
female, but during fetal development.
Yeah.
So it's become this whole body, all population, health product.
Lindsay: So I, I am pregnant.
So I'm really interested in the pregnancy part, but that one is kind of hard
because from what I see, we really only have published, like looking at
rats and so nothing I believe has been published as far as pregnancy with humans.
Darren: So first off, you gotta talk to your medical practitioner
anytime we're dealing with a special population, a very special re regarding
pregnancy and fetal development.
Make sure you talk to your doctor multiple times that this is okay for you.
You're right, the majority of the promise has come from the mice and rodent model.
Um, there's been a few studies in children or during development.
It all comes back to a same mechanism.
It potentially enhances the energy capacity for the mother and fetus, but
it also seems to decrease inflammation.
So sometimes during hypoxic environments, stillborn or, or, or, uh, catastrophic
events there, it seems to have improvements in brain bioenergetics.
Again, you're totally right using the animal model.
So it's an emerging area.
Stacey Ery in Australia is the leader in this, and if you just
Google her name, you can get
Lindsay: I have Googled her.
Yeah.
Darren: has some really except exceptional papers.
They use a sheet model, they use the mouse model.
Um, there's some promise there.
But one interesting thing you'll notice in all her studies or, or papers is that
the current body of research suggests there's no greater adverse effects.
Again, we're naturally producing it, uh, but again, caution
is severely, uh, warranted.
Uh, we don't know if creatine will transition into the breast milk.
We don't think so, but that's an area that's gonna have to be
looked at in human clinical trials.
But it's very difficult to do.
You need to get ethical approval.
And again, it's, it's such a, a dangerous area, a potential good promise.
I think.
Make sure you get medical approval and screening with that is for sure.
Lindsay: You know what's hard though is, when a lot of doctors will tell
women still like, well, don't don't weight lift during, don't, you know,
don't no resistance training know this.
So it's sometimes it's hard going to your physician because it's
like what are you gonna tell me?
Are you gonna be old school and say, I can't lift anything over 20, so then
I can't even lift my own children?
Or are you going to be a little bit more aware and realize that I'm
not handicapped during pregnancy and I'm still quite capable?
Darren: And we now know, and that's like, you know, you shouldn't
exercise when you're a child.
So, you know, some, unfortunately medical practitioners, they know a
little bit about a lot of things and are googling a lot of things as well.
And, and when you get bad advice, as the doctor's smoking
outside, you're wondering, you know, what's really going on.
But at the end of the day, they have the highest capability and
liability to give the advice.
Um, there's a lot of good evidence-based research articles out
there that are freely accessible.
But at the end of the day, they can be very daunting to read.
But for anybody considering supplementation, make
sure it's right for you.
Only rely on evidence-based research, that's those journal publications.
Do not rely on influencers trying to pedal a product that may or
may not have other ingredients that can cause harmful effects.
Creatine is naturally produced in our body and that's probably why the
safety profile is very, very high.
Um, we have another massive paper coming out.
There's 17 authors on it, looking at part two of all these myths and
misconceptions and male infertility and pregnancy is in there.
And that should be published by the end of the year.
It'll be a very, uh, popular paper.
Lindsay: I'm really excited for that.
That will be so helpful.
Darren: Yeah.
Yeah.
Lindsay: Now what about, there are different types of
creatine that are being sold.
So are there any benefits?
Is it just regular creatine monohydrate?
Like is that kind of the good go-to, or what are your thoughts on that?
Darren: yeah.
No matter how cool the label looks, how much marketing, what someone
tells you, uh, nothing as it currently stands, comes close to Monohydrate.
I.
And the reason being is monohydrate, meaning one water molecule
linked to this creatine molecule.
It comes in through our stomach and it's easily digested because the,
uh, water molecule is dissolved and it goes to your bloodstream.
That creatine molecule is gonna be identical to what we're naturally
synthesizing, and that's why it's safe and very effective.
But all these marketing forms of creatine, I often question
because creatine bioavailability is almost a hundred percent.
How can you get better than a hundred percent and shown to be
safe and effective and, and no other product that's come close to it.
So if you're out there and you go to a a store and they say, oh, this
is the best, you need a special creatine for women, you just say,
no, I need the same for everybody.
There's no magic.
I don't need creatine hydrochloride or anything with a high buffering, no.
Just take monohydrate and rest assured that's where all the
evidence is supporting it.
Lindsay: I was reading through, um, marketing strategy and they were
saying that if you put four women on the label, you can increase the price
by up to 40% and women will buy it.
Darren: Yeah.
It's unfortunate.
And it's, uh, the stuff I hear on Instagram, especially daily, I, I shake
my head at I will be honest, the IOC only lists about five products that have really
have good evidence for improvements.
One is beet root juice and sodium bicarbonate, uh, beta alanine,
caffeine, and, and creatine.
Protein as a macronutrient and anything else, it's suspect, right,
until more evidence has been done.
So if you look at those five, you're like, geez, I can get most of those
products in red meat or seafood.
I can get tho a lot of those compounds from eating a nice salad.
So food first.
Sleep adequate nutrition and supplements will give a a little bit better effect.
And I always use this analogy, if the cake is exercise, the
nice chocolate icing is protein.
Nothing's gonna be working without adequate protein, and then creatine
or the sprinkles on it to allow the child to be enticed to eat it.
And at the end of the day, exercise first, all supplements in that
may give a small better effect.
But sometimes that can have clinical applications moving forward.
Lindsay: Yeah.
I always like to remind people that if you don't know how to work hard in the
gym, then creatine is not, not gonna help you work harder if you already
can't work hard like it is for those who that are, like you said, have
those box checked off, can really get in there, work hard, and then you can
see some, some very slight benefits
Darren: And, and uh, to that point, there's been a handful of
studies in younger individuals and older individuals, when they don't
have a, a resistance training or exercise component in the study.
Uh, so creatine on its own, uh, creatine is one of those interesting
ones that has been shown to improve muscle performance without exercise.
Lindsay: Oh.
Darren: But it unlocks the great potential when it is combined with exercise.
So you start to think, could creatine have application for long-term bedrest?
Im mobilization during surgery.
Um, there's been some studies that have shown it preserve
strength and muscle mass.
Um, but we think now some populations that may not be able to exercise creatine
has been shown not nearly as much as in combination with exercise, but has
been shown to have some muscle benefits.
And we also, have now show some beneficial effects from cognition without exercise.
So it seems to be an energy status molecule, but let's rest assured
90 to 95% of all the, the totality of benefits come with exercise.
But there are some evidence that suggests you can still
get creatine without exercise.
Lindsay: That's amazing.
I do wanna talk a little bit more of the cognitive benefits.
What have we exactly seen?
Because that's newer.
I feel like that hasn't been talked about very much.
It's usually just endurance, muscle.
So talk on that point a little bit more.
Darren: Okay.
So if you're taking creatine and you're well rested, you're young, you
have no metabolic stressors in your life, adequate sleep, nutrition, I.
Creatine is not gonna give you any greater benefit from a
cognitive or memory perspective.
However, in populations that are sleep deprived, jet lag, aging, uh, metabolic
stress, which is almost anybody on the planet when you talk to, creatine,
has been shown to improve cognition, decreased symptoms of sleep deprivation,
and that jet lag would fall into that category and improve, indices of
memory and cognition in the elderly.
So it has shown promise when the brain is metabolically stressed,
when you look at the mechanisms, the brain uses creatine just like muscle.
But this is something some of the viewers may not know.
Creatine is not made in our muscle.
It's made in the liver or and or kidney, but the brain actually
does make its own creatine.
So that's why we think if the brain is not stressed, the brain says,
Hey, I'm already making enough.
I don't need supplementation.
But during depression, anxiety, and neurophysiological disease, concussion,
there's a common denominator.
The amount of creatine in the brain is reduced.
So maybe the brain becomes more sensitive to take up creatine
from the bloodstream and sort of compensate for what's happening.
So that's why we see the best lines of evidence, although the,
the body of research is emerging, uh, when the brain is stressed.
Lindsay: Have you heard of creatine headaches?
Is that common?
Darren: Y we've heard of that, but actually when you look at the data,
if the person is hydrated, creatine decreases the incidence of headaches.
And there's a couple papers on long covid where creatine had beneficial
effects on decreasing brain fog and and headache incident in those individuals.
The same theory, the brain was compromised during covid, the brain is more sensitive
to repair or rehabilitate itself.
Lindsay: Oh wow.
That, that's incredible.
Okay.
I am, is there anything else before I, I'm gonna look over and see
if there's any other questions.
I feel like you covered so many of the questions and concerns
Darren: The, the other big one is, doesn't matter when I take it, and, and I'll
preface this, that you can take it in the morning before your workout, during your
workout, which I do, I put five grams in a water bottle and I just drink it.
Um, you can take it right after, before going to bed.
Um, so the timing is kind of irrelevant.
There is the potential that caffeine at a high dose will interfere
with the kinetics of creatine.
So I need to be careful how I preface this because people have heard this and
sort of immediately think caffeine coffee.
The dose is about 200 milligrams.
That's gonna be a large coffee depending on where you're at in
the world on a consistent basis.
There's been cellular research and a subjective research to suggest
that maybe caffeine and creatine oppose each other at the cell level.
So it may be advisable to have your coffee or tea or high dose
caffeine before you work out.
And the cool thing is creatine can be taken after or at
any other time of the day.
So that's usually my personal recommendation.
Lindsay: Okay.
Well that was another one of the questions that I got was how
does, uh, caffeine interfere?
Can you have it in your coffee?
'cause a lot of people just do that.
Darren: So you can, because the dose of caffeine is gonna be low, but if you're,
uh, dumping it in a large Starbucks or whichever with 400 milligrams of caffeine
every day, and then you're sipping on it, there's a good chance the acidic
environment from the caffeine or the heat will degrade some of the creatine,
which may not, cause a greater efficacy.
Um, we now know that creatine and caffeine don't oppose each other from
uptake, but they seem to, there's something there at the cell level.
It has to do with calcium, that there's, there's some probability that
they could interfere with each other.
We don't really know for sure, but when we have evidence to suggest they
could, why not just spread it out?
But if putting your creatine in your coffee is the only way you're
gonna adhere to it, go ahead.
I'm sure you're gonna get the same effects.
Lindsay: Mm-Hmm.
I love that.
Um, is there anything that you just wish more people understood about creatine?
Darren: I think now knowing that it's not a steroid.
If you do it correctly, it should not cause successive weight gain.
And the other big thing, it's not a holy grail.
Uh, I'm starting to get these questions like, oh, I can just take creatine
and I'm gonna cure everything.
Um, I'm gonna steal this from another, uh, individual.
It sort of acts as the Swiss Army knife of supplements.
It kind of has a little bit of everything going on.
Um, but you've already touched on you have to exercise.
You're not gonna get a lot of big benefits without it.
So exercise first, protein second, of course, sleep.
All that comes into play.
But creatine will just give a small better effect.
Now, if you're clinically compromised, some individuals are born with some
deficiencies in creatine or the aging population, that's where creatine
will probably have more application.
But yes, if you're a young female, can you take creatine a hundred percent.
I, I really struggle with anybody on the planet that
would be not recommended to at least consider it.
Can you get it through your diet?
Yes.
But you have to be on a red meat or seafood intake, daily.
Vegans respond exceptionally well because their muscles are only half full.
Um, so there's a lot of questions that remain.
But I know it's really difficult to get young females, and that's 18
and above to participate in research studies because of the, the outdated
stigma on, on this supplement.
It's not a steroid.
It's kind of something we produce.
But it almost seemed too good to be true, but because it has all these applications.
Lindsay: So as far as dosing for vegans, vegetarians, do
you change the dosage at all?
Do you encourage something else?
I.
Darren: No, I would stay with the same.
It's gonna respond and be trapped in the muscle a little bit quicker.
Um, and they respond exceptionally well.
So if any vegan, vegetarian, or emphasizing a plant-based diet,
or even those that are not eating a lot of red meat anymore, you
probably will become a responder.
And that means your muscles will accumulate and trap
it in, including the brain.
Those on a carnivore diet who are eating, you know.
Steaks and, and seafood all day, you're probably gonna be
considered a non-responder.
That means you're already eating so much that you might not need supplementation.
Lindsay: I love that.
What about cycling?
A lot of, um, supplements you should cycle on and off.
What about creatine?
Darren: So at high dose intake, there's a theory that it would be advisable to
cycle it because the higher the amount you take in, um, your muscle doorways
sort of become closed or desensitized.
I understand that, but I say, well wait.
If a trickling amount can go to your bone and brain, the
higher dose may be advisable.
There's never actually been a study comparing daily dose versus cycling,
and in our longest trial, we gave creatine 11 grams a day for two straight
years in postmenopausal females.
And it was effective and there was no adverse effects.
So at the end of the day, I think it's really what's up to the
individual if you wanna cycle it and then go on vacation for a month.
The cool thing is, once your muscles are full, uh, the elevator creatine
stays for four, uh, uh, weeks in your muscle, and it probably stays
for about five weeks in the brain.
So let's do an analogy.
Hey, I, I've worked as a student all term, now I'm gonna go to
Mexico for three or four weeks.
I don't wanna bring the white powder across the border.
Rest assured.
That that elevated amount of creatine will stay elevated.
And then I'll give you two strategies you can do on vacation.
Everybody should still be active when they're, they're resting, so to speak.
The more active you are, that'll help maintain creatine in the muscle.
And then if you do eat red meat seafood, emphasize that in your
diet when you're on vacation, that'll put more creatine back in.
So you can cycle it if you like financially, whatever your preference.
Uh uh, there's no real need to.
But there's no evidence to suggest there's one that's favorable over the other.
Lindsay: So when your muscles are already loaded, is it okay just to,
let's say I, I train four times a week to just take creatine those four
days or is it still better daily?
Darren: And that's an excellent, we don't know that.
But the theory is, I used to just say just, you know, we have
evidence to suggest just take it on the days you work out.
But if you're only doing it from a muscle perspective, I'm okay with that.
But remember those off days is when creatine maybe going to the
bone, maybe going to your immune system, maybe going to the brain.
So now we recommend it on a daily basis.
Lindsay: So now there's a, there we know more and there's
more reason to take it too.
Darren: Yes, there is.
Lindsay: I, I love that.
You mentioned hair loss for men, and then another one somebody sent me, I don't
know if you've heard this one before, but it, it can give men man boobs.
Darren: Okay.
Yep.
So the first one, we'll start with baldness, and it's the most
popular, it's even more popular question than the kidney, uh, issue.
Uh, it was all based on a young athlete study where they took
20 grams of creatine a day.
And it increased the hormone DHTA derivative of testosterone.
And when you go into biology, uh, textbooks, DHT is highly linked to
hair follicle loss and baldness.
Um, but in that study, they only measured serum DHT, which is not
associated with hair follicle loss or baldness at the cell level.
And in that study, they never measured, , baldness or hair thinning.
All they simply measured was an increase in the hormone, but it
fell within the normal range.
Like when you go to your doctor and your cholesterol and blood
glucose, there's a range.
DHT fell within that too.
So a lot of people say, oh, well the hormone went up.
That means why I'm going baldness.
I'm like, no, you can base that primarily on your mother's
chromosome and genetic material.
You were probably going bald or the etiology of it was occurring beforehand.
I will flip it though.
There's never been a study to, to say creatine doesn't cause baldness,
so we need to actually study that.
But you need to get a dermatologist to look at the number of cross-sectional
areas of the hair in a certain area that measure just like muscle mass.
But as it currently stands, there's no evidence to suggest that it does directly.
And I've assessed well over a thousand people at higher dosages and not
a single per person's ever come to me and say, my hair is thinning.
The second one is gonna like regarding abnormal accumulation of
water in certain areas of the body.
Now that can occur when they're doing excessive heavy weight with
not enough protein, with a lot of carbohydrates in their diet.
That's usually what is being implicated.
Where creatine traps water, and for every gram of carbohydrate you eat,
you, you also trap three grams of water.
So my guess is it is the accumulating accumulation of water retention.
Lindsay: Okay.
That makes a lot of sense.
Now you've done a lot of podcasts, I feel like, I feel like I see you
on a lot of, fitness Health podcast.
I love it.
Um, is there ever a question that you just wish people would
discuss more, that you wish that the general population knew about?
Darren: Ah, that's an excellent question.
I've never gotten this one yet.
I, I think the beneficial effects for older adults or let's say non-athletes,
I, I think a lot of people think it's just for athletes and primarily
it's not just for biological males.
I, I wish females would, would become at least more open to it.
And I think we're getting the information out there, and that's one of the main
reasons I'll do all these podcasts is to talk about evidence-based research.
I just think by looking at the beneficial effects for potentially
bone health cognition, um, agility balance as we get older.
I think it's something to consider for everybody.
Um, the safety profile is excellent.
Do we always need more data?
Of course.
And we need to do randomized control trials.
That's the areas I think we have to get more awareness out there for people.
Lindsay: Awesome.
Well, thank you so much Darren, for coming on.
This has been so helpful.
You've pretty much, you've answered every single, every single time
somebody sends me a question.
I'm just gonna send 'em this podcast now
because you pretty much nailed it.
I feel like I have to repeat myself so much on this subject, so
Darren: No, thanks for having me.
And maybe near the end of the year we'll do the miss and misconceptions
part two and answer all the other, uh, questions that come in.
But, uh, thanks so much for the opportunity.
I had a great time.
Lindsay: Of course, you have a wonderful day.
Darren: Great.
Thanks so much.
Take care.
Okay, bye.