WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:45.196 --> 00:00:48.039 Linda Ostovitz: Hello everyone and welcome to Real Talk Real Growth. 00:00:48.579 --> 00:00:51.189 I'm Linda Ostovitz, the host of this show. 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:54.649 Those of you who know me know I talk plain. 00:00:54.889 --> 00:00:57.589 We talk real, therefore, we grow. 00:00:58.729 --> 00:01:03.559 Today, I am thrilled to have one of my dear friends with me 00:01:04.049 --> 00:01:06.479 Cheryl Brown, who is an attorney. 00:01:07.199 --> 00:01:12.479 I met Cheryl in Howard County, probably as a result of our relationship through 00:01:12.479 --> 00:01:16.439 the Howard County Chamber of Commerce, but maybe even earlier than that. 00:01:17.199 --> 00:01:22.639 And she has been historically in her life labor and employment attorney 00:01:23.279 --> 00:01:25.769 with a firm in Columbia, Maryland. 00:01:26.294 --> 00:01:32.544 Not all that long ago made the decision to leave us for which we are saddened, 00:01:32.784 --> 00:01:39.114 but we understand that for her it was the right decision and gave her an opportunity 00:01:39.114 --> 00:01:40.884 that she was very interested in. 00:01:40.884 --> 00:01:44.244 So we're gonna explore that with Cheryl a little bit. 00:01:45.124 --> 00:01:51.694 But first of all, Cheryl, welcome to this podcast, Real Talk, Real Growth. 00:01:51.754 --> 00:01:54.214 Thrilled that you said yes to me. 00:01:54.786 --> 00:01:56.556 Cheryl Brown: Thank you so much, Linda. 00:01:56.569 --> 00:01:59.929 Anytime that Linda and I can get together and talk is always a 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:05.569 pleasurable experience, and I said earlier that we could talk for hours, 00:02:05.569 --> 00:02:07.429 so I'm happy that you invited me. 00:02:07.874 --> 00:02:08.969 Linda Ostovitz: Thank you for saying yes. 00:02:09.549 --> 00:02:09.769 Yes. 00:02:10.904 --> 00:02:16.334 So as I have hinted a little bit in terms of your career you were an attorney with 00:02:16.334 --> 00:02:22.619 Davis, Agnor, Rapaport, and Skalny, which is a well established Columbia law firm. 00:02:22.619 --> 00:02:24.359 How long were you with them, Cheryl? 00:02:25.049 --> 00:02:26.039 Cheryl Brown: 13 years. 00:02:26.069 --> 00:02:26.249 Linda Ostovitz: Mm-hmm. 00:02:27.209 --> 00:02:30.389 And you did practice primarily in the labor and employment 00:02:30.389 --> 00:02:31.739 field, is that correct? 00:02:32.069 --> 00:02:33.569 Cheryl Brown: I did, yes. 00:02:33.959 --> 00:02:34.484 The entire time. 00:02:34.814 --> 00:02:35.234 Linda Ostovitz: Mm-hmm. 00:02:35.819 --> 00:02:38.939 So not only were you practicing as a lawyer for the firm, but 00:02:38.939 --> 00:02:41.854 you were also very engaged in the community in Howard County, 00:02:41.904 --> 00:02:42.564 Cheryl Brown: I was. 00:02:42.594 --> 00:02:45.534 Linda Ostovitz: So would you share a little bit about what your other 00:02:45.534 --> 00:02:47.459 engagement has been in the county? 00:02:48.309 --> 00:02:49.149 Cheryl Brown: Absolutely. 00:02:49.249 --> 00:02:53.839 Davis, Agnor, Rapaport, and Skalny, is part of their values is the community 00:02:53.899 --> 00:02:59.719 and it's one aspect of the firm that I took seriously was always giving 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:03.319 back to the communities that we served, which a lot of companies do. 00:03:03.829 --> 00:03:12.499 But we were always encouraged to engage with I guess charitable organizations, 00:03:12.499 --> 00:03:17.929 business groups that really not only focused on the clients that we serve, 00:03:17.929 --> 00:03:20.209 but enhanced our practices as well. 00:03:20.689 --> 00:03:23.779 So as a labor and employment attorney within the business practice group, 00:03:23.809 --> 00:03:28.529 we focused we were members of the Howard County Chamber of Commerce. 00:03:29.249 --> 00:03:34.019 I also was involved with SHRM, which is the Society for HR Management. 00:03:34.559 --> 00:03:37.289 Not only their local chapter, but their national chapter. 00:03:37.874 --> 00:03:42.794 I was also involved on the board at Northwest Hospital, which is part of 00:03:42.794 --> 00:03:49.064 LifeBridge Community and throughout all of these organizations, even from 00:03:49.064 --> 00:03:54.134 the beginning when I first joined the firm, the best way to get involved in an 00:03:54.134 --> 00:03:56.354 organization is to join a committee and. 00:03:57.089 --> 00:03:57.839 Linda Ostovitz: Absolutely. 00:03:58.679 --> 00:04:02.519 Cheryl Brown: That's how you make connections, friends, 00:04:02.819 --> 00:04:04.019 professional friends. 00:04:04.019 --> 00:04:07.589 That's how you really become invested in that organization. 00:04:07.979 --> 00:04:14.379 So I just started volunteer for a committee and kind of once you volunteer 00:04:14.379 --> 00:04:16.089 for committee, you're off and running. 00:04:16.149 --> 00:04:19.619 They look at you like, oh, we have you if you're that person. 00:04:20.069 --> 00:04:23.624 But, for me, it's easy to do that. 00:04:23.624 --> 00:04:28.454 It's easy to give back and really become engaged with that, especially with 00:04:28.454 --> 00:04:30.044 the support of the firm that I had. 00:04:30.044 --> 00:04:34.939 And that really became my family as well, like my professional family. 00:04:34.939 --> 00:04:37.814 But you make a lot of really good friends along the way. 00:04:39.124 --> 00:04:41.434 Linda Ostovitz: That's interesting when you say you join a committee 00:04:41.434 --> 00:04:44.794 and you're off and running and Oh my, isn't that the truth? 00:04:45.474 --> 00:04:50.834 But just to be clear when my little spoiler alert here is when 00:04:50.834 --> 00:04:53.024 Cheryl decided to leave Maryland. 00:04:53.714 --> 00:04:59.954 She was the chair of the board of the Howard County Chamber of Commerce so 00:04:59.954 --> 00:05:05.474 off and running directly to the top to be a little more precise is where she 00:05:05.474 --> 00:05:08.384 was when she made the decision to leave. 00:05:08.864 --> 00:05:10.214 So where are you from originally? 00:05:12.119 --> 00:05:16.619 Cheryl Brown: So I grew up in North Carolina in Winston-Salem, and my 00:05:16.619 --> 00:05:19.199 entire family lives in North Carolina. 00:05:19.829 --> 00:05:25.159 When I left after high school, I had not really lived in North 00:05:25.159 --> 00:05:26.419 Carolina since high school. 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:28.259 I went to college in Atlanta. 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:32.909 I worked in dc, went to college in Pennsylvania. 00:05:32.909 --> 00:05:36.719 My husband and I moved around and we ended up in Maryland where 00:05:36.719 --> 00:05:38.879 we were, 20 years in Maryland. 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:40.849 Three boys in Maryland. 00:05:40.849 --> 00:05:47.249 So my, the majority of my adult professional life has really been in 00:05:47.249 --> 00:05:55.769 Maryland, so it was not an easy decision to choose to leave for so many reasons, 00:05:55.769 --> 00:06:02.819 but I grew up in North Carolina and that's where my parents and family live, so that 00:06:02.819 --> 00:06:06.209 was one of the decisions that we made. 00:06:06.874 --> 00:06:13.024 Linda Ostovitz: Here you are, mid-career at the top of your game, at the 00:06:13.024 --> 00:06:15.574 top of your community involvement. 00:06:16.354 --> 00:06:22.954 It must have been some really powerful pulls, if you will, that caused you 00:06:22.954 --> 00:06:29.074 to make the decision to leave Maryland and you returned to North Carolina. 00:06:29.074 --> 00:06:31.654 So first of all, where did you go in North Carolina? 00:06:32.569 --> 00:06:34.729 Cheryl Brown: Asheville, North Carolina, which is in the western 00:06:34.729 --> 00:06:36.139 part of the state and the mountains. 00:06:36.604 --> 00:06:39.994 Linda Ostovitz: I've never been there, but I've heard wonderful things about 00:06:39.994 --> 00:06:42.574 how beautiful it is and how fun it is. 00:06:43.244 --> 00:06:46.004 So we'll have to put that on our list to visit you there. 00:06:46.724 --> 00:06:52.364 So what made you leave your work here and your life in Maryland 00:06:52.364 --> 00:06:54.224 and move it to North Carolina? 00:06:55.027 --> 00:06:59.417 Cheryl Brown: So as life goes, you don't ever plan these things. 00:06:59.417 --> 00:07:04.402 So it is just one of these opportunities that came about and I think to your point. 00:07:05.567 --> 00:07:09.407 I wasn't looking to leave my firm. 00:07:09.407 --> 00:07:11.417 I wasn't looking to leave Maryland. 00:07:11.517 --> 00:07:17.007 I think my husband and I had always talked about ending up possibly 00:07:17.037 --> 00:07:22.197 in Asheville, North Carolina, or purchasing maybe a house, a second 00:07:22.197 --> 00:07:23.817 house in Asheville, North Carolina. 00:07:23.847 --> 00:07:25.977 'cause we love Asheville, we love the mountains. 00:07:26.307 --> 00:07:27.807 My boys went to camp there. 00:07:28.797 --> 00:07:33.447 We vacation there, and it's only an hour and a half from my parents, which 00:07:33.447 --> 00:07:35.367 is in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. 00:07:35.367 --> 00:07:37.527 So that was in the background. 00:07:37.977 --> 00:07:41.937 So when you have an opportunity, a professional opportunity that 00:07:41.937 --> 00:07:45.057 presents itself in the place that you've always thought you would 00:07:45.057 --> 00:07:49.557 end up someday, you start looking at things a little differently. 00:07:49.947 --> 00:07:53.427 And I remember when I had the opportunity. 00:07:54.642 --> 00:07:55.422 Crazy. 00:07:55.552 --> 00:07:58.462 If you had asked me this a year ago, I would've said, no, 00:07:58.462 --> 00:08:00.292 this was never on the table. 00:08:00.862 --> 00:08:06.252 But it piques your interest and I think you have to look at things. 00:08:06.312 --> 00:08:10.002 And I think my husband even said five to seven years too soon we would be having 00:08:10.002 --> 00:08:14.052 this conversation, but we're now having this conversation, life throws it at you. 00:08:14.052 --> 00:08:15.672 You have to have that conversation. 00:08:16.392 --> 00:08:22.017 And I loved  Davis, Agnor, Rapaport, and Skalny, I love my 00:08:22.077 --> 00:08:23.607 professional friends in Maryland. 00:08:23.607 --> 00:08:25.137 I love what I was doing. 00:08:25.137 --> 00:08:34.887 There was no particularly reason to say, oh, I have to move, but my 00:08:34.887 --> 00:08:37.647 parents are older as they're aging. 00:08:37.677 --> 00:08:39.777 There's no one here other than myself. 00:08:39.777 --> 00:08:40.917 My sister's in Colorado. 00:08:41.467 --> 00:08:47.047 It's an area we love and it's a completely different professional opportunity. 00:08:47.257 --> 00:08:53.137 And I love the name of your podcast because if you don't challenge yourself 00:08:53.197 --> 00:08:59.917 and you don't continue to move and take risk or push yourself outside of the 00:08:59.917 --> 00:09:04.387 comfortable box we live in, you don't know the potential of your growth. 00:09:04.897 --> 00:09:07.717 And I think from a professional side, that was. 00:09:08.317 --> 00:09:14.787 Very enticing to see if I could push myself even, even in my fifties, which 00:09:14.787 --> 00:09:16.797 is a crazy time to be thinking of this. 00:09:17.427 --> 00:09:23.637 But yeah, I kind of took a risk and pushed myself with all that 00:09:23.637 --> 00:09:26.007 other stuff, being positive. 00:09:26.797 --> 00:09:31.577 I knew I had kind of a comfort level that, I could do it even though 00:09:31.577 --> 00:09:32.927 there's somewhat of a safety net. 00:09:32.957 --> 00:09:37.207 'cause it's North Carolina, it's safe, it's family, it's place we like. 00:09:37.207 --> 00:09:39.277 But yeah, I took that leap. 00:09:39.487 --> 00:09:41.467 Very, very crazy. 00:09:41.467 --> 00:09:41.557 But. 00:09:41.942 --> 00:09:46.322 Linda Ostovitz: But you know, what's occurring to me is that even though you 00:09:46.322 --> 00:09:52.022 and Bill anticipated that you might end up back there someday, even if it was a 00:09:52.022 --> 00:09:58.637 second home, you did this on your terms and so many big things that happen in 00:09:58.637 --> 00:10:04.047 our lives are precipitated by something over which we have no control that 00:10:04.047 --> 00:10:06.687 makes us say, oh, I need to do this. 00:10:06.687 --> 00:10:11.397 And you mentioned your parents who are getting older and, but it was a choice. 00:10:12.117 --> 00:10:14.937 It was absolutely a choice that you made. 00:10:15.297 --> 00:10:18.207 And of course, when you talk about something to challenge yourself, 00:10:18.207 --> 00:10:20.937 this is who you are, right? 00:10:20.937 --> 00:10:23.667 Any one of us can stay in this safe space. 00:10:25.017 --> 00:10:28.257 If you stay in this safe space, you don't grow perhaps. 00:10:28.557 --> 00:10:28.857 Cheryl Brown: Right. 00:10:29.577 --> 00:10:32.787 Linda Ostovitz: What was the professional opportunity that caused 00:10:32.787 --> 00:10:35.037 you to say, yes, I'm gonna grab this. 00:10:37.297 --> 00:10:40.507 Cheryl Brown: Attorneys always think, and you probably have thought this too, 00:10:40.562 --> 00:10:43.172 what is life like outside of a law firm? 00:10:43.172 --> 00:10:45.032 What is life outside of billable hours? 00:10:45.032 --> 00:10:49.202 What is life outside of that always trying to find the next client. 00:10:49.202 --> 00:10:52.352 So you always think that every attorney has thought that. 00:10:53.042 --> 00:10:57.122 So this is an opportunity to move outside of law firm, moving 00:10:57.212 --> 00:11:01.052 in-house to a company corporation. 00:11:01.552 --> 00:11:04.222 My background is always represented businesses. 00:11:04.712 --> 00:11:08.462 So I always have that kind of in-house business corporate background. 00:11:08.822 --> 00:11:14.102 Focusing on labor and employment, but this is a company part of the Coca-Cola family. 00:11:14.582 --> 00:11:20.002 So it is a huge from a business standpoint, this company's been 00:11:20.002 --> 00:11:22.802 around for 40 years in North Carolina. 00:11:23.282 --> 00:11:24.482 It's part of the Coke family. 00:11:24.482 --> 00:11:26.192 It has huge support. 00:11:26.822 --> 00:11:34.022 International implications, and it's an opportunity where I, in talking with 00:11:34.022 --> 00:11:37.082 them, I knew that they were struggling, but I also knew I could do it. 00:11:37.082 --> 00:11:41.642 They were looking for a VP of human resources, general Counsel 00:11:41.642 --> 00:11:44.087 within Southeastern Container. 00:11:44.897 --> 00:11:50.227 And as we talked through the needs and the opportunities, it was just a 00:11:50.227 --> 00:11:58.647 really good fit for my skillset and I could help them along in the process 00:11:58.647 --> 00:12:01.077 that I felt super comfortable with. 00:12:01.747 --> 00:12:06.487 With that said, it's in a manufacturing facility, you're in the beverage 00:12:06.907 --> 00:12:09.547 manufacturing industry, which is so. 00:12:09.982 --> 00:12:14.512 Different than just your run of the mill, law firm businesses type thing. 00:12:14.512 --> 00:12:18.202 This is on a bigger global scale, but at the same time, people 00:12:18.202 --> 00:12:24.512 are people and companies manage their employees very similarly. 00:12:24.512 --> 00:12:30.547 The laws, from a legal standpoint, from a labor and employment standpoint, primarily 00:12:30.547 --> 00:12:33.847 the laws are federal laws that we're dealing with, especially when you have 00:12:34.057 --> 00:12:37.612 a company that is across the country. 00:12:38.392 --> 00:12:43.802 So yeah, it was it's a big opportunity, but it's super exciting 00:12:43.802 --> 00:12:46.142 and I challenge myself every day. 00:12:46.232 --> 00:12:48.357 Every single day there's something new that I'm learning, 00:12:49.592 --> 00:12:52.622 Linda Ostovitz: Do you wear a hard hat to work given that you're 00:12:52.622 --> 00:12:55.562 in a manufacturing facility? 00:12:55.562 --> 00:12:59.852 I have a perception that outside of your office, there's Coke bottles 00:12:59.852 --> 00:13:01.592 being filled and caps being put on. 00:13:01.832 --> 00:13:03.722 On and trucks being loaded. 00:13:04.577 --> 00:13:07.307 Cheryl Brown: So this is where I'm gonna date myself, and you'll appreciate this. 00:13:07.307 --> 00:13:11.927 I'm sure if you ever watch Laverne and Shirley and you imagine that Steve, 00:13:12.137 --> 00:13:15.157 Laverne, and Shirley and the bottle are going by and they have their I 00:13:15.157 --> 00:13:17.827 think they had hair nets on, I don't even know if they had hard hats. 00:13:17.827 --> 00:13:19.687 They're bottling and it's going by. 00:13:20.347 --> 00:13:21.457 It's not like that at all. 00:13:21.457 --> 00:13:26.587 So yes, I have safety equipment, I have safety goggles, I have safety shoes. 00:13:26.587 --> 00:13:30.787 We have safety vest and ear, little ear safety ear things. 00:13:30.867 --> 00:13:34.227 But what I learned, which is so fascinating to me 'cause I remember 00:13:34.227 --> 00:13:37.137 the first time going into the manufacturing facilities and we have 00:13:37.137 --> 00:13:42.967 five plants scattered around the east, eastern side of the country. 00:13:43.327 --> 00:13:48.047 But everything is robotics, everything is equipment. 00:13:48.047 --> 00:13:49.847 You see very few people. 00:13:49.847 --> 00:13:54.197 That's not to say that there's not people out there, but it's a lot of engineers. 00:13:54.582 --> 00:14:00.512 Industrial engineers running equipment that I wouldn't even be able to comprehend 00:14:00.512 --> 00:14:02.222 how that equipment is being run. 00:14:02.252 --> 00:14:03.782 It is very technical. 00:14:04.302 --> 00:14:10.662 And that was kind of an aha moment to recognize how far we've come in, 00:14:11.052 --> 00:14:15.252 just because I'm not in that space, but I've learned so much and we 00:14:15.252 --> 00:14:18.522 recently went to Germany 'cause a lot of the manufacturing equipment. 00:14:19.257 --> 00:14:23.277 For the beverage industry is in Germany and they just held their 00:14:23.277 --> 00:14:24.897 big conference called Drink Tech. 00:14:24.897 --> 00:14:28.917 It's an international conference for all beverage manufacturers across the world, 00:14:29.367 --> 00:14:33.927 and they only, they hold it every three years, and it's an opportunity to learn 00:14:33.927 --> 00:14:35.997 about that equipment and the equipment. 00:14:36.432 --> 00:14:38.832 You have separate equipment for filling, you have separate 00:14:38.832 --> 00:14:40.482 equipment for making bottles. 00:14:40.482 --> 00:14:44.232 You have separate equipment for making the little closures that go on top and the 00:14:44.232 --> 00:14:50.562 separate equipment for the plastic bottles and the glass bottles and the cans. 00:14:50.562 --> 00:14:51.582 In the beer industry. 00:14:51.582 --> 00:14:53.112 It's a fascinating industry. 00:14:53.112 --> 00:14:59.402 But yeah, so those are the type of opportunities that, that are afforded me 00:14:59.492 --> 00:15:01.622 right now and just I'm learning a lot. 00:15:02.807 --> 00:15:03.557 Linda Ostovitz: I'm a lawyer. 00:15:03.557 --> 00:15:06.287 I work in an office, I work in a courtroom. 00:15:06.527 --> 00:15:07.037 I would know. 00:15:07.592 --> 00:15:10.712 I can't even imagine what a big difference this is for you. 00:15:10.712 --> 00:15:14.882 Like you've described a whole nother industry, but I guess the thing that's 00:15:14.882 --> 00:15:19.622 maybe consistent is you're still dealing with people, and so when you talk about 00:15:19.622 --> 00:15:22.622 hr, you're still dealing with people. 00:15:22.922 --> 00:15:30.992 Are you encountering different types of issues with people in Asheville than 00:15:30.992 --> 00:15:33.542 what you were in Columbia, Maryland? 00:15:34.187 --> 00:15:37.097 Or do you find that HR issues are HR issues? 00:15:38.182 --> 00:15:43.012 Cheryl Brown: HR issues are HR issues, but I think what I have learned is 00:15:43.012 --> 00:15:47.002 that when you're in a manufacturing facility, you have, there's a distinction 00:15:47.002 --> 00:15:51.742 between your plant employees, your hourly employees, and what's important 00:15:51.742 --> 00:15:58.612 to them and what concerns they have versus employees who are in an office. 00:15:58.722 --> 00:16:00.252 Your salary employees. 00:16:00.522 --> 00:16:02.802 So that has been. 00:16:04.452 --> 00:16:09.552 You have to be approachable and you have to understand what they are going 00:16:09.552 --> 00:16:17.162 through and their day-to-day lives, I think to them, it's so different 00:16:17.162 --> 00:16:19.172 than what I think we experience. 00:16:19.172 --> 00:16:25.092 So that has been, an opportunity to really get to know some of 00:16:25.092 --> 00:16:27.972 these employees and part of. 00:16:28.647 --> 00:16:35.007 This is just who I am is making sure that I go and I am, go out on the floor and 00:16:35.007 --> 00:16:40.017 I'm going to all these shift changes and I'm meeting all these employees and I'm 00:16:40.017 --> 00:16:44.457 actually traveling to every single plant, which is part of my 90 day goals, to make 00:16:44.457 --> 00:16:49.347 sure that I meet with all the shifts and the employees that understand, because I 00:16:49.347 --> 00:16:53.487 don't think you can really lead until you understand what they're going through. 00:16:55.152 --> 00:16:57.072 Linda Ostovitz: Such wisdom to do that. 00:16:57.872 --> 00:16:59.912 You can't manage people unless you know 'em. 00:16:59.942 --> 00:17:01.382 You can't help 'em unless you know 'em. 00:17:02.297 --> 00:17:05.117 So yay to you for doing that. 00:17:05.672 --> 00:17:10.772 And then the other aspect of your job is general counsel, which is 00:17:10.832 --> 00:17:16.922 different from hr and so does being general counsel to basically a 00:17:16.922 --> 00:17:21.842 manufacturing place different from being. 00:17:22.737 --> 00:17:27.437 From the work that you did for really businesses and corporations that maybe 00:17:27.437 --> 00:17:29.097 weren't in the manufacturing arena. 00:17:31.567 --> 00:17:32.737 Cheryl Brown: Yeah, knock on wood. 00:17:33.092 --> 00:17:37.202 I'm gonna say this lightly 'cause I hope nothing happens, but so far, so 00:17:37.202 --> 00:17:41.942 good in that space and we have a big support system of outside counsel, so 00:17:41.942 --> 00:17:46.682 a lot of it is coordinating with them and making sure that we're on the same 00:17:46.682 --> 00:17:48.452 page and things are running through me. 00:17:48.482 --> 00:17:53.982 I think, just from a business background, making sure that our contracts are 00:17:53.982 --> 00:17:56.432 in place and looking at things. 00:17:56.867 --> 00:18:00.287 Internally and having, and certain issues may come up. 00:18:00.897 --> 00:18:03.807 Probably the biggest issue in a manufacturing place is safety. 00:18:04.557 --> 00:18:06.057 Safety is the top priority. 00:18:06.657 --> 00:18:10.987 And, that aligns so well with the labor and employment side of it. 00:18:10.987 --> 00:18:15.037 Osha a lot of our legal issues would come up with hiring or 00:18:15.037 --> 00:18:17.407 firing, so most of their issues. 00:18:18.187 --> 00:18:23.317 But if there is a need to hire outside counsel, let's say 00:18:23.317 --> 00:18:25.177 for international purchases. 00:18:25.277 --> 00:18:28.817 That's something that our international attorneys would deal with. 00:18:28.937 --> 00:18:33.947 Or making sure our outside real estate attorneys, because we have plants in 00:18:33.947 --> 00:18:39.127 so many different states, you have to rely on your outside counsel and 00:18:39.127 --> 00:18:40.567 then you just help support them. 00:18:40.617 --> 00:18:44.637 We're trained to ask those questions and we're trained to know what we need 00:18:44.637 --> 00:18:49.312 to know, in order to have conversations with outside counsel, and they haven't, 00:18:51.022 --> 00:18:56.242 this company has historically only relied on outside counsel and not had 00:18:56.242 --> 00:18:59.062 an attorney in-house to manage that. 00:18:59.062 --> 00:19:02.602 So that's another new phase for them. 00:19:02.602 --> 00:19:07.102 So we'll see how it goes, but they have the benefit of having an 00:19:07.102 --> 00:19:14.352 attorney and also someone who's, willing and excited to be the VP of 00:19:14.352 --> 00:19:19.302 hr, which is always an interesting combination, but it works right now. 00:19:19.917 --> 00:19:20.997 Linda Ostovitz: That's huge. 00:19:21.057 --> 00:19:25.917 I was actually gonna ask you, when you stepped into the role of VP of 00:19:25.917 --> 00:19:34.351 HR and of general counsel, were you filling a vacated position or it sounds 00:19:34.356 --> 00:19:39.451 like you are creating the position of general counsel, is that right? 00:19:40.311 --> 00:19:40.856 Cheryl Brown: Yes, yes, 00:19:41.236 --> 00:19:41.526 Linda Ostovitz: Okay. 00:19:42.251 --> 00:19:43.961 That's a cool place to be, right? 00:19:44.201 --> 00:19:48.221 You get to write the script and create the outline of how it all works. 00:19:48.566 --> 00:19:50.226 Cheryl Brown: absolutely it's good. 00:19:50.226 --> 00:19:52.771 Yeah, because you can do that but there's also, the challenges. 00:19:52.821 --> 00:19:54.201 It's never been done before. 00:19:54.771 --> 00:20:00.171 Even with the VP of HR position I think this has been a position that 00:20:00.171 --> 00:20:04.701 they've been wanting to fill for a while because they really wanted to 00:20:04.701 --> 00:20:10.481 make sure that it was a more strategic position and they wanted to elevate it. 00:20:11.231 --> 00:20:15.301 Because what I've learned is, and this is a testament to the company, 00:20:15.301 --> 00:20:18.841 is a lot of these employees who have worked here 30 and 40 years. 00:20:19.501 --> 00:20:23.601 And I think 13 years at DARS is a long time, but these have 00:20:23.601 --> 00:20:25.491 voiced 30 to 40 years, Linda. 00:20:25.911 --> 00:20:29.571 And, with that, they have a lot of wisdom. 00:20:30.381 --> 00:20:34.731 Also as part of succession planning, that's a lot of knowledge and 00:20:34.731 --> 00:20:41.011 experience that's gonna be moving on and leaving the company. 00:20:41.251 --> 00:20:46.321 And so that is probably one of the top priorities is figuring out what we're 00:20:46.321 --> 00:20:51.791 gonna do with these more tenured employees because they've been here for so long 00:20:51.791 --> 00:20:57.341 and as they leave, do we have the bench strength to fill in and meet that demand. 00:20:57.821 --> 00:21:01.091 That's the number one challenge, but that's the number one challenge for 00:21:01.091 --> 00:21:03.791 so many companies, not just here. 00:21:04.211 --> 00:21:06.131 There's so many companies that are like that. 00:21:07.396 --> 00:21:11.446 Linda Ostovitz: I understand it's your job to figure out how to manage those tenured 00:21:11.446 --> 00:21:17.596 employees and probably strategically figure out what you need once they 00:21:18.382 --> 00:21:20.842 move on to whatever's next for them. 00:21:21.352 --> 00:21:27.792 Is it your job then to recruit and hire and, fill those gaps that 00:21:27.792 --> 00:21:32.442 might be created by the retirement of those long-term employees? 00:21:33.822 --> 00:21:35.787 Cheryl Brown: Yes, the short answer is yes. 00:21:36.117 --> 00:21:41.487 The long answer is I have a team and we have support from 00:21:41.487 --> 00:21:42.807 the senior leadership team. 00:21:42.807 --> 00:21:43.952 We have support from the board. 00:21:44.687 --> 00:21:46.947 It is, and you have support from the Coke system. 00:21:46.977 --> 00:21:49.887 Like you have a big support system, but yeah. 00:21:50.377 --> 00:21:56.827 That is the goal is identifying some type of succession plan to recruit 00:21:57.067 --> 00:21:59.382 employees in the manufacturing space. 00:21:59.382 --> 00:22:04.432 It's a challenge because as I said before, it's a very technical job. 00:22:04.997 --> 00:22:09.557 A lot of engineers and making sure that you have the right people, but 00:22:09.887 --> 00:22:13.927 finding the right people who want to stay another, 20 to 30 years. 00:22:13.987 --> 00:22:17.677 That's the other challenge because as you know, people move around a lot. 00:22:18.427 --> 00:22:23.767 And people, if you can keep someone three years, you're doing a great job. 00:22:24.727 --> 00:22:28.447 Linda Ostovitz: Do you have a training program, an internal training program, for 00:22:29.017 --> 00:22:32.877 getting these folks to have the technical expertise that you've talked about? 00:22:33.567 --> 00:22:39.717 Cheryl Brown: Yeah, and I think what's cool is, Maryland I find 00:22:39.717 --> 00:22:44.407 was more advanced in these kind of apprenticeship programs, workforce 00:22:44.407 --> 00:22:50.157 development programs, and I have had that experience in working in Maryland. 00:22:50.157 --> 00:22:55.047 And so what I can develop down here is making sure that we have that workforce 00:22:55.047 --> 00:22:59.292 development apprenticeship programs here, and understanding how North 00:22:59.292 --> 00:23:04.457 Carolina, and I'm just looking at North Carolina , but we also have plants 00:23:04.457 --> 00:23:06.317 in Virginia and Ohio and Tennessee. 00:23:06.317 --> 00:23:10.757 But looking at those opportunities to develop that training program, because 00:23:10.757 --> 00:23:16.292 a lot of the employees, we look at community colleges, technical colleges, 00:23:16.682 --> 00:23:23.172 even the colleges like you look at, at Virginia Tech, you look at NC State, 00:23:23.172 --> 00:23:27.252 Georgia Tech, like a lot of those engineers will come out of Clemson 00:23:27.282 --> 00:23:30.252 looking at those schools as well. 00:23:30.302 --> 00:23:35.282 What I'm finding is I'm really trying to learn and understand what the needs are 00:23:35.282 --> 00:23:38.282 in order to target who we need to recruit. 00:23:38.732 --> 00:23:44.012 And they, because the company is so part of the Coke system, there's not a 00:23:44.012 --> 00:23:46.292 lot of advertising as to who they are. 00:23:46.382 --> 00:23:52.562 They think for a lot of times, employees would find the company, but 00:23:52.562 --> 00:23:56.342 what we're finding is we need to do a little more marketing and advertising 00:23:56.642 --> 00:23:58.202 out there to start finding people. 00:23:58.202 --> 00:24:01.637 It's very competitive in the manufacturing space. 00:24:02.087 --> 00:24:06.017 My big word, Linda, is opportunity and patience. 00:24:06.017 --> 00:24:08.327 These are my two words that I use all the time. 00:24:08.327 --> 00:24:11.957 Patience in learning in the process, and there's a lot of 00:24:11.957 --> 00:24:13.727 opportunities, which is great. 00:24:13.817 --> 00:24:16.787 If you start any job, that's what you want is opportunity. 00:24:17.712 --> 00:24:19.932 Linda Ostovitz: Those are two great words and I'm not surprised 00:24:19.932 --> 00:24:22.062 to hear that they're your words. 00:24:22.752 --> 00:24:28.997 And I feel like you've got a blank slate there to a great extent and you're the 00:24:28.997 --> 00:24:34.037 perfect person to come in there with your experience and a fresh view, and a 00:24:34.037 --> 00:24:40.547 willingness and an excitement, like you say, to make this scenario a better one. 00:24:40.787 --> 00:24:42.437 How long have you been there now? 00:24:43.937 --> 00:24:45.527 Cheryl Brown: I've been here about two months. 00:24:46.637 --> 00:24:47.237 So two months. 00:24:47.447 --> 00:24:47.897 Yeah. 00:24:48.592 --> 00:24:50.772 And it is amazing how much 00:24:52.832 --> 00:24:56.702 my life in Maryland I do. 00:24:56.757 --> 00:25:01.017 I think about it, like what I can take away from that and use that. 00:25:01.017 --> 00:25:05.517 And I think that's probably the same for everybody but you actually, I don't 00:25:05.517 --> 00:25:08.547 think you realize how much you learn when you're going through a job or 00:25:08.547 --> 00:25:12.057 when you're in it, until you're out of it and you can reflect back and then 00:25:12.057 --> 00:25:13.707 you're like, wow, I really learned that. 00:25:13.707 --> 00:25:14.577 I'm gonna take that. 00:25:14.577 --> 00:25:15.417 I'm gonna take that. 00:25:15.417 --> 00:25:16.137 That's good. 00:25:16.677 --> 00:25:18.387 So yeah. 00:25:18.787 --> 00:25:21.007 Linda Ostovitz: I think that's accurate for sure. 00:25:21.847 --> 00:25:26.347 So on the corner of your desk there, you have a little display of some bottles 00:25:26.902 --> 00:25:27.052 Cheryl Brown: I 00:25:27.157 --> 00:25:30.757 Linda Ostovitz: I recognize the, red and white Coca-Cola bottle. 00:25:31.027 --> 00:25:33.457 How about what are the other two bottles that are there? 00:25:34.612 --> 00:25:36.892 Cheryl Brown: So the other two bottles that are sitting there 00:25:36.942 --> 00:25:40.632 are Coca-Cola bottles, but they have the Baltimore Ravens on them. 00:25:40.692 --> 00:25:47.622 And when I first started, my team knew I'm not shy about being a Ravens fan, although 00:25:47.622 --> 00:25:49.452 this season's a little tough, but. 00:25:49.872 --> 00:25:50.502 Linda Ostovitz: It is. 00:25:51.117 --> 00:25:55.137 Cheryl Brown: But as part of my welcome gift, they gave me two little 00:25:55.167 --> 00:26:00.147 Coke bottles with the Ravens Super Bowl championships on 'em, and also 00:26:00.147 --> 00:26:02.187 the other one has the Ravens on it. 00:26:02.247 --> 00:26:07.197 And that was, when you move from a state to, it's completely new area. 00:26:07.197 --> 00:26:08.817 This is completely different. 00:26:08.817 --> 00:26:15.672 So it was a nice touch that they gave me when I came aboard, so that was very nice. 00:26:15.777 --> 00:26:17.007 Linda Ostovitz: That was very sweet. 00:26:17.247 --> 00:26:18.087 Very sweet. 00:26:18.897 --> 00:26:23.067 So you took this huge jump off a cliff a couple of months ago. 00:26:23.517 --> 00:26:26.267 I know you don't have a home yet, permanent home. 00:26:28.097 --> 00:26:31.547 Your husband is not with you yet all the time because you 00:26:31.547 --> 00:26:33.167 don't have a permanent home. 00:26:33.587 --> 00:26:39.827 Your boys are still in Maryland and everything about your professional life 00:26:39.887 --> 00:26:42.197 and your personal life has changed. 00:26:43.697 --> 00:26:46.997 Would you recommend this to other people who might be thinking, 00:26:47.667 --> 00:26:49.077 I want something different. 00:26:49.077 --> 00:26:50.967 I want a different opportunity. 00:26:50.967 --> 00:26:54.012 I want an a way to be able to really 00:26:56.142 --> 00:26:59.562 write the blueprint for the success of this company. 00:27:01.032 --> 00:27:02.262 Would you recommend it? 00:27:02.772 --> 00:27:07.002 Cheryl Brown: I think as we said at the beginning, like change is 00:27:07.002 --> 00:27:12.957 hard and change also can be growth. 00:27:13.527 --> 00:27:16.077 I think you have to decide, it's a personal decision for 00:27:16.077 --> 00:27:17.907 everybody as to where they are. 00:27:19.047 --> 00:27:26.667 I believe everyone has it within them to make that change, you just have to 00:27:26.667 --> 00:27:29.127 decide if it's that right time for you. 00:27:29.127 --> 00:27:32.127 And actually it may not even be the right time and sometimes it's just a 00:27:32.127 --> 00:27:34.707 leap of faith and it's, it is a risk. 00:27:36.432 --> 00:27:45.522 I think at my stage in life it was the right time to consider it because as 00:27:45.522 --> 00:27:48.822 the boys are getting older and they're transitioning and they're on their 00:27:48.822 --> 00:27:51.112 own, like we're in a different stage. 00:27:51.592 --> 00:27:55.462 Had it been 10 years ago, or even five years ago, I probably would've 00:27:55.462 --> 00:28:00.292 thought differently, but sometimes things happen at the right reason and. 00:28:01.627 --> 00:28:05.247 It is, it's a courageous act to say, okay, I'm gonna do this. 00:28:05.247 --> 00:28:06.567 I don't know what's gonna happen. 00:28:06.567 --> 00:28:07.677 I have no idea. 00:28:08.197 --> 00:28:13.147 But if I don't take that opportunity and try it, I probably 00:28:13.147 --> 00:28:16.627 would regret passing it by. 00:28:16.657 --> 00:28:21.127 And if you are going to regret passing over an opportunity, then 00:28:21.127 --> 00:28:24.847 that probably tells you you should be challenging yourself and taking it. 00:28:25.537 --> 00:28:31.522 I don't know how I honestly I don't know. 00:28:31.522 --> 00:28:33.292 It all happened so fast. 00:28:33.292 --> 00:28:35.392 It was moving fast. 00:28:35.392 --> 00:28:39.442 There were many conversations with my family. 00:28:39.542 --> 00:28:43.622 I did, I worried about the firm, I worried about the chamber. 00:28:43.622 --> 00:28:47.532 I worried out the boards I was on and the friends that I had. 00:28:47.532 --> 00:28:52.382 And yeah, it was, but it, I guess I believed I could do it. 00:28:52.482 --> 00:28:56.832 And everything in Maryland would still be okay, which of course it is. 00:28:56.832 --> 00:29:00.822 Of course everything is fine and that the friendships that I have will always 00:29:00.822 --> 00:29:06.632 be my friendships and my professional group will always be there because we 00:29:06.632 --> 00:29:12.272 really have developed those connections that we talked about at the beginning. 00:29:12.272 --> 00:29:17.057 When you join a committee, when you become engaged, it's not always 00:29:17.057 --> 00:29:20.147 about the organizations, about the people that you work with. 00:29:20.777 --> 00:29:24.197 And I will be honest, I miss people. 00:29:24.257 --> 00:29:27.917 It's hard when you look back on LinkedIn and you see everybody 00:29:27.917 --> 00:29:29.957 doing thing that you know you did. 00:29:30.417 --> 00:29:35.817 But I will tell you, I have my first chamber meeting next week and I went 00:29:35.817 --> 00:29:42.677 to a SHRM meeting a couple weeks ago, so just gimme a couple months and I 00:29:42.677 --> 00:29:45.437 will continue to be getting involved. 00:29:45.617 --> 00:29:49.217 Oh, actually in the United Way, I did went to a United Way meeting, 00:29:49.727 --> 00:29:54.197 so I'm exploring opportunities down here because it is important to 00:29:54.197 --> 00:29:56.117 me to be a part of the community. 00:29:56.747 --> 00:29:59.717 And when you're in-house, you don't always have that opportunity 00:29:59.717 --> 00:30:00.917 as you did with the law firm. 00:30:01.127 --> 00:30:04.757 So it's not always about networking, but here I look at 00:30:04.757 --> 00:30:06.437 it as marketing the company. 00:30:07.187 --> 00:30:10.757 Recruiting it and making sure that we are the company that 00:30:10.757 --> 00:30:12.167 everybody wants to work at. 00:30:12.617 --> 00:30:13.937 That's the only difference. 00:30:13.937 --> 00:30:18.317 It's still networking, but I kind of pivot, if that makes sense. 00:30:18.437 --> 00:30:22.157 Linda Ostovitz: And is your company supportive of that effort? 00:30:22.187 --> 00:30:24.382 'cause that's so much of who you are. 00:30:25.007 --> 00:30:25.217 Cheryl Brown: I know. 00:30:25.742 --> 00:30:26.032 Linda Ostovitz: Yeah. 00:30:26.402 --> 00:30:27.262 Cheryl Brown: So far, so good. 00:30:27.562 --> 00:30:32.562 I think if it's all part of kind of marketing who we are and recruiting and 00:30:32.922 --> 00:30:38.202 making sure that people want to work here because there's a face and there's an 00:30:38.202 --> 00:30:40.212 image and it's like, Hey, wait a minute. 00:30:40.212 --> 00:30:40.962 They're involved. 00:30:40.992 --> 00:30:41.712 They do more. 00:30:41.712 --> 00:30:45.162 It's not just that manufacturing plant up on the mountain. 00:30:45.942 --> 00:30:48.412 So yeah, I think it's an opportunity. 00:30:48.592 --> 00:30:49.312 There's my word. 00:30:50.422 --> 00:30:53.962 And we'll see, we'll kind of explore that and see what 00:30:53.962 --> 00:30:56.182 happens because, yeah, it's good. 00:30:56.242 --> 00:31:00.982 Recruiting's hard and making, we don't have necessarily a 00:31:00.982 --> 00:31:04.852 marketing team because it's Coke. 00:31:04.882 --> 00:31:06.832 Like they, Coke is, I don't know. 00:31:06.832 --> 00:31:11.432 It's, that's another it's very unusual to be in that situation. 00:31:11.882 --> 00:31:17.002 And so I'm I guess recruiting, marketing, communication, legal. 00:31:17.062 --> 00:31:17.752 I don't know. 00:31:17.752 --> 00:31:19.282 I have all these hats right 00:31:19.627 --> 00:31:21.217 Linda Ostovitz: You wear them beautifully. 00:31:21.277 --> 00:31:26.347 I will tell you, you gave me chills as you were talking about a courageous act. 00:31:26.767 --> 00:31:32.827 I used, the less elegant term jumping off a cliff, but it was a courageous 00:31:32.832 --> 00:31:38.987 act that you took and about friendships, but knowing you as well as I do 00:31:40.287 --> 00:31:46.287 they're so fortunate to have you, and especially to have you in a role where 00:31:46.527 --> 00:31:51.927 you are creating, you're not walking in and saying, okay, I can check 00:31:51.927 --> 00:31:54.117 the boxes for this job description. 00:31:54.417 --> 00:32:00.337 You are creating the job description, which I think is so cool, and the 00:32:00.337 --> 00:32:06.467 strategy, and you being out there with your beautiful face as the face of Coke. 00:32:06.467 --> 00:32:06.527 Huh? 00:32:07.587 --> 00:32:09.777 Who could be more fortunate than to have that? 00:32:09.777 --> 00:32:17.217 So thank you so much for joining me today on Real Talk, Real Growth. 00:32:17.247 --> 00:32:19.887 Maybe we should check in with you in a couple of months 00:32:20.197 --> 00:32:20.487 Cheryl Brown: Yeah. 00:32:20.757 --> 00:32:23.727 Linda Ostovitz: and you'll be telling me you're running this group and that 00:32:23.727 --> 00:32:28.287 group and on the board and the chair person, and hopefully have a permanent 00:32:28.287 --> 00:32:33.817 home that you and Bill have found and love to spend the rest of your days in. 00:32:34.177 --> 00:32:34.662 That would be great. 00:32:35.347 --> 00:32:41.677 Cheryl Brown: and I want you to come visit and I think my experiences and friendships 00:32:41.947 --> 00:32:44.527 in Maryland only prepared me for this job. 00:32:46.372 --> 00:32:46.882 Linda Ostovitz: You know what? 00:32:46.882 --> 00:32:49.462 You give as much as you receive my dear. 00:32:49.582 --> 00:32:52.372 And no relationship is a one way street. 00:32:52.942 --> 00:32:54.592 Even if it's not a good one, right? 00:32:54.622 --> 00:32:59.182 But the best ones are two-way streets, and we all learn from each other and help 00:32:59.182 --> 00:33:04.972 each other, and I'm so happy to see you and wish you all the best and thrilled 00:33:04.972 --> 00:33:06.832 for what you've accomplished so far. 00:33:07.792 --> 00:33:09.532 And I will talk to you soon. 00:33:09.532 --> 00:33:14.752 Thank you for joining us on Real Talk, Real Growth, Cheryl 00:33:14.752 --> 00:33:16.132 Brown, ladies and gentlemen. 00:33:16.747 --> 00:33:17.737 Cheryl Brown: Thank you, Linda.