Today on the Futurist Mom, we're talking about something every parent struggles with, which is how do you have the hard conversations with your kids, especially when they're pushing you away.
This starts young because when our kids hit the teenage years, the stakes get higher, and we need to talk about sex failure, relationships, and money.
But today's kids are also navigating threats that we never faced and mental health challenges that can spiral into deep crisis.
And increasingly, they're turning to AI companions that may feel safer to confide in than us.
You're right when these conversations matter.
Most many of us retreat.
We worry that we'll say the wrong thing or that our kids won't want to hear from us or push us away.
Some parents turn to surveillance and monitoring, but that's not the answer, is it?
Real connection is.
Hi, I am Nancy Ano.
I'm a strategist, global speaker, author, and mom of three really focused on creating a safe and thriving future for all children and hopefully all people.
And today our guest, Jen Shoemaker Davidson, is here to talk about this struggle intimately, though she's not a clinician or formerly trained parenting expert, she's a mom who figured out how to stay connected to her teens even when they wanted her the least.
Her new book, keep Talking Conversations with our Kids when they want us leased, but Need Us Most Comes out right now, January, 2026 and offers practical strategies born from Real experience.
Jen will share how to build the kind of trust and open communication that serves as the foundation for navigating everything else, the traditional tough topics, the new digital age challenges, and helping our kids process their hopes and fears for a future that looks nothing like the one we grew up expecting.
Welcome to the futurist Mom Chen.
nancy giordano: Jen, I'm so excited that you have the time to talk about conversations that matter.
Thank you so much for being here with us today.
Jen Davidson: Oh my God.
Thank you so much for having me.
This is a conversation I'm very excited to have.
nancy giordano: Well, because you just wrote a book, which is super exciting.
So first I'm gonna say high five that you know, that is on many people's, you know, mental bucket list and they don't always get it done.
So the fact that it has gone from an idea to actually a book that is now, by the time this podcast comes out, we'll just be launching at the same time in January, 2026.
I'm gonna say high five.
Well done.
Jen Davidson: so
nancy giordano: Thank.
Jen Davidson: Everybody's got a story.
I was lucky to finally get mine on paper.
nancy giordano: Well lucky, and I think again, you know, persistent to make it happen, but there's something, I think it's because you have a, you know, when you have a, a real pull, there's something you really want to say.
It makes it easier to do it.
And your book is really easy to read.
It's really, really friendly.
But it's about a very, very important con topic about how we have meaningful conversations with our kids, particularly as they get into teen years when they wanna speak to us less.
So talk to me about your journey to the book and like why you feel like it's important to have this out in the world now.
Jen Davidson: Yes.
So I just realized when my kids were in high school, I had a lot of, uh, ideas that I wanted to make sure that I spoke with them about before I launched them, and worried honestly that they would be out in the world and clueless.
And I had, I, I'm Type A, I had a bucket list of things that I needed to get out, and so I realized that having these conversations.
At home and when they're busy and distracted, did not work.
So I came up with an idea.
I called my life lesson lunches, and I would take each kid individually out to lunch and I would have a topic and I'd let 'em know ahead of time sometimes, sometimes I didn't.
And I said, you don't have to talk, but I'm going to, and I want you to listen and.
This is what we're gonna discuss today.
And I basically went through my list and I realized that these were all conversations they did not necessarily wanna have at that time.
But now that I'm past it, I am reflecting back and I'm here to say they valued it tremendously and I was kind of onto something and they asked me to write it down so they could do the same thing with their kids when they have their eventual families.
And the book was born.
nancy giordano: Wow.
That's the biggest compliment ever, which is asking you to write it down.
And the second I was tied with the fact that your oldest child, Emma, and wrote the forward to your book, which is also a pretty extraordinary thing about.
Right about how important it was that these, but I think it was probably, I'm assuming more than just the life lesson lunches, that this is a pattern that had started very, very early on when your kids were young.
Because I believe you can't just suddenly, I mean, it's better to start later than never.
For sure.
Like to your point, I think you told me this off camera, that it's never too late.
To have these kinds of, uh, meaningful and heart to heart conversations, but my theory has always been that you set that pattern for that when they're very young and it makes it a lot easier to get into the really difficult conversations as they get older.
Right.
To have built that trust and to have built that openness.
Jen Davidson: Exactly.
Like I say, it's, it's a lot easier to ask the tougher questions when you start with the easy ones, when they're little and just even building the conversational like patterns with them.
They understand that, you know, don't say, how was your day?
know?
One word answers are never gonna get you into the conversations you wanna have with your kids.
Like open-ended curiosity, that is the number one thing.
If we're curious about really what's going on with our kids, it does flow and that's, I think, the piece that people overthink.
nancy giordano: How much do they care about what's going on in our life?
Like when we talk about what's going on in our world because.
Jen Davidson: honestly.
I, I think they are so self-centered during these years that they, their world is themselves, their friends.
And I talk about this in my book where I was at the mall with Emma and she ran into some people, we were new to the area, new to the school, and she's like, I can't be seen with you.
And just, just left it.
just ditched me.
And I mean, I understood I was hurt at the time, but we do not matter in the sense that they're, they're building their identity, they're pushing the boundaries, and, and that's important and developmentally very necessary.
We just have to stay curious, keep asking, and understand where they are and, and try not to, to take it so personally.
nancy giordano: I think that trying not to take it too personally, part is a really, really important part of this whole conversation around future small, right?
There's a lot of places that when we start thinking about the future or talking about some of these again, more tender topics, it is easy.
To take them personally, and we've had another whole episode about how we need to do our own work internally.
Right now.
I talk a lot about that in the professional world, but I think it applies obviously even more importantly at home, that we know what our own sensitivities and triggers are.
So when those things happen, we leave space for our children, have their own authentic experience and don't want to imprint our needs on them.
That has been a, a literally 20 something year lesson for me with my own children.
To navigate.
So when you get to these tricky conversations, you, you give them the space.
So is your book more focused on the teenage years or does it start younger?
Like, where should we drop into this conversation?
Jen Davidson: I honestly, like every family, they're different.
My kids, you know, the maturity levels of what they're exposed to, you know, the kids that are staying home, two, working parents are going to have a lot more lessons.
They're gonna have way more autonomy.
They're gonna learn a lot more.
And so then people who are being helicopter parented, and I don't say that in a, in necessarily a bad way.
It's just your parents are at home, they're meeting your needs, they're driving you around, they're taking care of all the things.
so it could be earlier for some, and again, like I said, read the book early and you'll know, oh, I can go back.
That's happening now and then revisit, because I think understanding.
Kind of what it's gonna look like.
The path going forward is important.
So you can make a plan.
And again, the book starts with talk to yourself.
You have to be ready to talk to your kids.
You have to know how to.
calm, listen, intense.
You know, like it's, there are so many tools that I did not, I did not get right a lot.
And so a lot of this is my lived experience, my failures, my mistakes in saying it took me a while to get there.
I monologued a lot and my kids tuned me out and I had to really take a look at myself and say I have to do something different.
And it's not on them, it's on me.
nancy giordano: Okay, so these life lesson lunches, how frequently did you have them?
Jen Davidson: Oh, it, I would say maybe once every few months.
I mean, it was not
nancy giordano: Okay.
Jen Davidson: but I mean, I, but I talked a lot.
I mean, that's the thing.
I mean, this was, those were the big ones, right?
Like mistakes and sex and, you know, what are you passionate about?
And all the things, you know, life skills.
They were big ones that needed, you know, specific attention.
But I mean, I did this all along the way.
nancy giordano: Uh, for me, the, the car ride, right to and from long commutes to school was such an amazing time because you're not looking at each other, you're, you're parallel.
You're just kinda stuck in this space, uh, but you're not making contact or taking a walk.
Again, when you're walking, it's a different experience than when you're standing right across from one another, uh, and feeling like you're on the couch, being interrogated by someone.
Uh, so why do we think that?
I mean, again, your research and your experience in this around why this becomes such a. Tricky.
It should be such a natural thing.
You would think that as our children age, they, you know, we wanna impart our wisdom.
They wanna hear our wisdom.
Like it should just be sort of a, you know, a wonderful road to adulthoods.
But it's not.
It is a moment where we really sh check out.
And I remember at one point going to some sort of, I think it was probably a parent teacher conference or a back to school night, and there was a real emphasis on, once your child turns 10, don't duck out.
Like they need you more than ever past 10.
And I thought, wow, that was such an interesting morning, that there's that moment where we think that, okay, they're good.
We can let them, you know, rock on into fifth grade and middle school and they don't need us was really eye-opening.
So what is your experience there about why we are so challenged?
Jen Davidson: You know, I. feel like parents, when the kids start to push back, you know, and I have this whole lap bar analogy that I talk about.
You know when you get on a rollercoaster and you put that harness down, the first thing we do is we push against it, and we're doing that not to see that it's gonna fly open.
Off we go.
They're.
We're doing it to make sure that we're safe, secure and we're stable.
And that really helped me think about it when my kids were constantly pushing on me and pushing back.
And a lot of parents give up at that point.
I mean, we feel rejected.
We take it personally and all of our fears and oh my gosh, we're losing them.
And I think we just are almost paralyzed into inaction because.
We don't know how to reach them.
And then the longer, you know, there's this visual that I remember having after I got married and, you know, you start to finally have the real problems and, and you have to have that conversation again.
This, this can travel through all relationships that if you're walking toward each other.
Right.
You will always be able to find each other.
If one person turns away and you're just chasing, you cannot do that.
Like I kept thinking to myself, I cannot.
I need to get in front of them.
I need to continually get in front of them.
And we are afraid to have those conversations, lose opportunities and time, and that's when they need us most.
And I just encourage parents to lean in and, and don't give up because we know our kids.
And that's the thing.
We know them and they need us to know them.
And that is a piece that really launches kids to have that trust and that security and, and these conversations can help get you there.
nancy giordano: You talk a lot about parents being worried that they're gonna say the wrong thing.
And I think that's a really interesting thing because theoretically we do know our children, right?
And hopefully we know ourselves well enough and we think we've got something important to say.
Uh, but I think that it is.
Fair to assume right now our children are feeling really, really fragile.
I've done a lot of stuff in the TEDx world.
We did a lot of stuff with TEDx youth and so I spent a lot of time with teenagers and we spent a lot of time talking about these kinds of things, and they're really, you see them over the course of time in which I was working with this group of rotating teens, like every year would be a different group of students.
How they became more and more.
I don't wanna say fragile 'cause I don't think they're fragile, but definitely sensitive and attuned to rejection.
Attuned to not feeling enough, attuned to feeling a shame around whatever behavior may have happened online or not, or what's going on with their friends.
Like I do feel like they're becoming that somebody used to talk about them.
Either teacups or Crispies was an interesting description that Wendy Mogul had for children many, many years ago.
But they're either like burnt out and fried.
Or that they are so fragile because of whatever.
You can talk to, the whole set of reasons why.
And we're afraid to somehow push on that.
Is that fair?
Jen Davidson: Yes.
I mean, I think the unknown, and that's something that I think we, you know, I'm excited to talk about because even since I've written this book, so much has changed in conversations that now are incredibly relevant and probably would go higher up on the, on the rankings of what to say first.
But, you know, our kids.
Our kids are getting so much information from their friends, from the internet at a level we cannot even compete with, and, and to jump into like AI and, and them talking to chat GBT or whatever.
Here's the thing.
The difference between their parents and a chatbot or, you know, any other even a friend in some senses, not interrupting.
They're validating, they you know, they are giving them what they want.
They are giving, saying what they wanna hear, and we, we are telling them what they should be doing.
We are correcting them and they don't wanna hear that.
They think they're invincible still.
They think they know it all and they don't care what we have to say.
They would rather have the path of least resistance.
nancy giordano: That's interesting.
You know, we were talking a lot about ai.
I'm really focused right now on AI Companions, so partly chatbots, partly at some point it's gonna be their doll.
That's gonna be able to talk back to them in a very near future.
Right.
We talked a lot about already, uh, that I can build an AI companion that's like my favorite character from Fortnite or something else.
And I have this like whole, uh, relationship with them.
So there's a lot that's going on that again, parents aren't playing with this.
Don't even know, to your point, that it's happening online.
And there's a lot of, you know.
Pros and significant cons and a lot of oversight that needs to happen in that place.
That is not happening right now.
Uh, but I think what's interesting about it is that as our children, like, so I was having a conversation with someone today about would I build an AI chatbot of myself for other work that I'm doing?
Like I wrote a book too, and would I create a chat bot so people could ask questions about leadering and they'd be able to get an answers.
So all of a sudden, as you were talking just now, I'm like, oh my God, what if we created our own like parenting chat?
Bot and our child could go to, you know, Jen, GPT and you know, mom, GPT, uh, as opposed to gonna chat GPT so they could have sort of the same openness around these conversations and questions and get our values and get our perspectives and get our stuff.
So that it's not randomly being supported by anybody on the internet.
But if we done it a more, uh, private and anonymous way, that is not an,
Jen Davidson: right,
nancy giordano: a crazy thought to imagine that that would be something that would happen at some near future.
Jen Davidson: Easily, I would say, and the part that I, that just, I would be so resistant to that, and the thing that I will scream from the rooftops is the piece that I think is missing so much is it's almost like parallel play.
Families are sitting at dinner, but nobody's really interacting.
We, you know, you could have four people sitting on a couch and everybody's on their device, or one person's watching tv and the other person's doing something.
We are not connecting as much as we used to.
And I think one of the best ways that I found to reach my kids is through storytelling.
And that is a way I, 'cause when I was struggling, I thought, how do I connect with all my friends?
I've always been told, oh Jen, you're a great storyteller.
My story, I'm very animated and so.
was like, you know what?
I'm gonna start doing that and telling them about my past, my future, what I think, and, and engaging with them through stories because.
if we don't pass those down to our kids, they will be lost.
And that is the way history has been told.
And so it's kind of going back to basics in a way, within your own family to sort of spark the conversation by going back to telling stories and asking them, listening that from them saying, tell me, you know, whatever it is.
Tell me what happened today at school with a friend.
Or did something surprise you or do you have any teachers that you love?
I mean.
Start the conversation and let them talk and then stop talking.
nancy giordano: So I think that what I'm hearing from that is you start with your story to be able to open up the
Jen Davidson: Right,
nancy giordano: and then you pull out and let them do their thing.
When they start to feel excited and inspired to share their own story,
Jen Davidson: Yes, vulnerability brings connection.
And
nancy giordano: I.
Jen Davidson: I mean, I share a lot about my life with people.
I'm an open book and.
I've always sort of wondered, you know, people don't do that.
And I, for a variety of reasons, of course, but I also have been told that people feel very close to me in that sense because once you tell somebody something about your life, it opens an opportunity for them to share a similar experience.
And when we can find alignment in something that we both been through or that we're struggling with or something funny that happened, or a place we live.
It starts to build all of these different connections, and what we can do with our kids as well,
nancy giordano: Yeah.
And I think that there are lessons that we did learn growing up.
You know, I was a kid who grew up in the, uh, seventies, eighties, and plenty of drugs were around, uh, you know, was in communities where I grew up in apartments where I grew up, where there were plenty of people who were doing that stuff, you know?
And I didn't, I resisted for lots of different reasons.
I'm not like I, that's a pretty good.
Goody two shoes.
But because I'd grown up with someone so much crazy and I didn't wanna be patterned into that as well, but uh, had my own reasons for doing it.
But I think even to give your kids the strength to know that you don't have to do it the same way that everybody else is doing it, right?
That I did buck the system in this way or that way, or if I didn't, the thing that I learned by having made that mistake and really wish that I hadn't done it that way, or gave myself a little bit of grace to go bump into that wall.
And it was okay and I survived it, and it wasn't that big a deal.
You know, as an interesting thing to, I do think they are more curious about our experience and our upbringing than we give them credit for.
That's why I asked at the beginning about how much they wanna hear about our stories.
They probably don't wanna hear about my day, but they do wanna hear about what I was like when I was 12 or 17.
Yeah,
Jen Davidson: Yeah.
Oh,
nancy giordano: I think that that totally makes a d
Jen Davidson: Yeah.
Yeah.
I do believe
nancy giordano: No, go ahead.
Jen Davidson: Be, life is so different for them too.
I had the conversation about Mothers Against Drunk Drivers and how I had the contract with my parents that if I was ever somewhere I would call them, no questions asked, they would not yell at me, abate me all the things, and my kids kind of looked at me like, why would you ever need that with ride share?
how lucky they are that those opportunities exist.
I mean, of course we probably had cabs, but we would still need a phone.
We'd have to go to a payphone to try to call a cab.
Like we just had,
nancy giordano: Yeah.
Yeah, no.
Totally different.
Jen Davidson: And you know, it's interesting for them to hear what our life was like and how parts are relevant.
Some aren't, but the reality is, in that same vein, if you're ever in a situation for whatever reason, you're being bullied, you're in a party you wanna get out of, you know, like still the same thing.
I'm a safe place.
Right.
We want our kids to know that they can trust to come to us when things go wrong, because if they come to us sooner than later, we can help soften the blow, and sometimes we can't, but it gives them an opportunity to turn toward us, and that trust has to be built.
nancy giordano: I'm not gonna shame or call out.
Not even shame.
I think that's an awful word.
Uh, call out any of your children, but was there ever a moment where you did get called into doing something that was, uh.
That upset you when it happened, but you're really grateful that they called you anyway.
Because I can say that that definitely has happened to me and it was really like, contain, contain, contain the, you know, wanting to like lecture right now.
Jen Davidson: Yeah.
nancy giordano: emotion, I.
Jen Davidson: and, and, and again, I had a situation that pressure for, you know, one of my kids was, they knew better They were being told, it's fine.
It's not a big deal.
And you know, your kids have that sort of like centered feeling of knowing, uh oh.
That and then when they came home.
I could tell something was up and it took 'em a little while to finally say I did something that I think I shouldn't have done.
And it took a while though.
Like I, I could tell, but again, you give 'em the opportunity and say, Hey, how did everything go?
And I was beside myself that after everything I have taught them that they would make a decision like that.
And it, uh, it took a lot for me not to be like, well, and I did.
I mean, let's be clear, I definitely was like.
What are you telling me right now?
Like, I, I think I lost it for a minute, which I shouldn't have done, but then I kind of had to get into the mode of like, all right, let's talk this through and let's figure out how we can un unring this bell.
And, and it turned out okay.
It could have gone differently, but it definitely needed some intervention.
And, you know, and it's a lesson that we still to this day discuss
nancy giordano: Right and.
Jen Davidson: yeah,
nancy giordano: I was just gonna jump in and say, I think that it's also key to say that it's not only that we're only just like, you know, compassionately listening, I do think there are moments that we actively intervene in moments where our children need, you know, uh, need some help in some way or need some guidance.
I mean, we definitely had, you know, a couple of altercations in the old high school level that like required some significant, like course correcting.
On some stuff.
And so I think it is again, that balance between like helping your kids through a really, really challenging time and knowing that they're still very loved and that they have, you know, nothing to feel ashamed of, but that there's something that they probably learned here in this moment in time about, you know, having, uh, and taking that, making that choice that I think is really, really key.
But there's another thing that I want to talk about.
If you.
Do you wanna finish that thought or shall I jump into the next?
Well, because I think that part of it was that you talk about in the beginning of your book, and I had the same experience, that we were pretty free range kids.
We got to run around and do stuff all day long, no one knew.
I tell my daughter again that I was 10 and I would rode my bike to the mall and then rode back along the roadway, probably without a helmet.
And no one knew what we were doing all day long.
And, uh, somehow we survived.
I think that because parents have so many more ways to track their children and or prevent them from going off and doing those things.
They often don't give their children that much freedom for lots of different perceived fears and reasons.
And or you can see on a map where your child is, or you can see if they spent money at a certain store, you can see if they snuck out for lunch because they can see if they went to Whataburger on their app.
Do you think that that then makes parents feel like they've got enough of a sense of what's going on for their children?
They don't need to have those conversations?
Or do you think like, well, like how is that playing into, I think modern parenting right now?
Jen Davidson: I mean, I think a map can tell us where they are, but we have no idea who they're with and what they're doing.
And so I think those conversations are still so important and, also being curious about their life, what they're doing, who they're spending time with, when they come back.
It doesn't have to be, where were you?
What'd you do, da da, da.
It can be, you know, tell me about who you were with.
What'd you guys talk
nancy giordano: Right.
Jen Davidson: get curious about their world, because this is the piece too that I think is so stressful.
We don't wanna impose, we don't wanna like, we wanna honor some privacy.
And I understand all of that.
But just little things like is, is.
Opening the door for them to come in and say, actually my friend has been struggling and they were telling us, and you know, these little micro moments of opportunity for them to share because they're processing, they're, maybe somebody came to them for help and are looking to bounce ideas off of us.
And so if we don't, if they just come home and that's it.
Oh, did Jon and Einstein you?
Yes.
And that's the end of it.
know, it doesn't have to be, what were you doing?
It can be what'd you guys do?
It's all in how we.
Sort of frame it.
If we
nancy giordano: Right.
Yeah.
Jen Davidson: share pieces.
Not a lot maybe, but little bits they, they'll know we care enough and that we're there, you know, we don't wanna talk about it.
Fine.
You know, if you feel like it, I'm gonna be over here.
nancy giordano: I, I do think they're caring.
They're carrying a ton.
And I do remember, again with one of my sons, I think that because he is again this really sensitive and really caring kid that he ended up holding a lot of stuff that was going on for his peers, was going on for his friends and trying to figure out how he was going to help, you know, them navigate or, or.
You know, I think a key part of this conversation I certainly was had with my children is like, you don't need to hold this all for yourself.
You don't need to tell me about it, but at some point you need to know when to escalate this, that this is beyond your ability to be able to help your friend through whatever's going on.
Because I was really worried that at this point before chat to BT that kids were certainly turning to their peers, that returning to their friends with really sensitive stuff and really important and really sometimes dangerous.
Stuff and they were not trained counselors.
At one point I wanted to start a whole program that was like peer-to-peer counseling, tips for kids to know, like how to say things to your friends, how to, you know, put boundaries in place around certain things.
How to know when to escalate stuff, because I think it's really overwhelming for them.
To be sometimes in these, uh, friendship groups or in these circles or in these moments with people that they really care about and know what to do.
And so I think, again, this portal then to be able to go talk to a parent or talk to a teacher or just know that there are adults in your world that you can trust with this information, I think is so important.
Even if it's said through radically that they know that that's the, the, the way that, that we get, that their world is challenging and that sometimes it's gonna be overwhelming.
Jen Davidson: Yes.
nancy giordano: Right.
Jen Davidson: a with my son when he was in middle school, uh, with bullying and he had been bullied himself and we had gone through all the different tools and, but he witnessed a friend of his, I mean, really egregious comments being made and he made the decision to go to the counselor and tell, and she called me.
say, I want you to be very clear that if he continues this path, could be retaliation.
And that that was a very real situation.
And so I think learned a lot from that.
We learned a lot from that situation.
And moving forward, they have to balance the trust of their friends and the trust.
And he went to this person and his friend was like, don't, don't do it.
It'll get, it'll get worse.
And he was so afraid.
And Luke was like, this has to be said, ultimately said, for your protection, I'm doing this and.
Uh, he went through with it and it was one of those very, I was a very proud moment, but I mean, truthfully, very scared.
And he ended up actually leaving that school truth be told, because he just was like, it's not a fit for me.
And we had just moved into the area and, it was a moment where even the counselor was like, just so we're clear, we know when we break trust or we've got to have that conversation with somebody else to say.
think that you should tell somebody, somebody higher, and as they get into the teenage years, it's harder and harder.
I was in a situation where I was at getting into a car with somebody who is drinking and talking to people with me saying, you know, we should call my mom.
I ha I have this arrangement.
And they're like, no way.
We can't do that because your mom could tell our parents and my, and that peer pressure is very real.
It is very real
nancy giordano: Right.
Jen Davidson: strong, and.
Navigating that is very tricky.
nancy giordano: Uh, so as we, I'm actually really curious too, between daughter and son.
So I have, you know, two boys and then a girl, which has made it actually a lot easier to not gender things because my two boys are so different.
It'd be easy to be like, well, boys are like this and girls are like that.
But again, my two boys are so different that I think it has much more to do with the child.
But I'm assuming that, you know, what worked for one didn't work with the other 'cause.
I think that that's often the case.
Jen Davidson: No.
Yeah.
even close.
Not even close.
Very different.
Regardless of gender girls, they just bring, just being a girl and adolescence is just an entirely different world, and the FOMO and the worry and the being left out and everything that goes along with that is voice is just not that deep.
And I'm generalizing here, but for a lot of times, like.
You just look and they would, that just would never cross their mind.
And I think sometimes I wish that girls could have a little bit more of that oversimplification, but no, very different through the way that I had to parent them.
And, but also bringing them into each other's conversations.
I used to do that a lot.
Something would happen with Emma and I would say, just a second, Luke, come on in here.
I think you need to hear this.
And he would just be beside himself.
And I would say, now this has happened to her and.
Just so you can file that away, because I think all the bits of information that they can learn from each other's lessons and what happens in their lives just adds to that, that file cabinet if something were to happen to them or a friend.
nancy giordano: Interesting.
I don't know that I did that as much.
That's a, you know, so the, the most tricky thing about this podcast is learning things that I wish I'd done differently along the way.
I'm like, wow.
I'm like, darn, I wish I had known that neuro hack, or I wish I had thought about that, uh, particular thing.
And I think, you know, again, as we were talking earlier, I think before we'd gone on camera.
When I was a young parent, I was in a parenting group and I made time every week to be over with a bunch of other young mothers learning about what it meant to start to raise, you know, infants and toddlers.
Once you get to a certain age, you don't have that anymore, and if you're fortunate enough to have a neighborhood group or maybe you know, some sort of online group in which you get to exchange some of these things, but I think many, many parents are just trying to get through the day.
Right And are just trying to get through like so much that's changing in their own world and their own work and their own economy, that to be able to lean into these kinds of conversations with your peers is really tricky to go do.
And so I think that sometimes we are on this island.
And so I think the reason again that I wanted to have you here and to talk about this 'cause the conversations are gonna get more intense.
You and I had, you know, a shared you know.
Whatever, a conversation online on LinkedIn about a post that was really heartbreaking about a boy who had been shamed online through some sort of sex exploitation thing, and in a very short period of time, within like two and a half hours, he went from having what he thought was a romantic engagement with someone online who was.
Curious about him and interested in him to being called out to being shamed to then, uh, taking his life at the end, which was just absolutely crush shame.
Jen Davidson: Devastating.
nancy giordano: And I see this story happening more and more.
I hear the story happening with kids who have, you know, extended themselves in some sort of, you know, meme stock play or in some sort of gambling online, uh, experience or, uh, certainly, you know, that are happening across the, the world from all kinds of ways in which we're trying to exploit our children into even Roblox or into, uh, communities that we think are safe.
And are not, uh, you know, in any way super protected, uh, for, for having our children, uh, be exploited by this.
So I think that again, how we start having these conversations with our children and letting 'em know that things that they may think that we just do not understand, we can't possibly imagine what's happening in their online world, or that they feel really, really, really stupid that they made themselves so vulnerable to go do, and they don't know where to go turn right.
So I think that's why this.
Is critically important now, maybe in a way that was different than we were talking to our kids about condoms or not back in the day.
Jen Davidson: Right.
Right.
And I do, I, I do think that have, we have big pockets of just missing information of what their life is like online.
we can't necessarily control what they're exposed to, but we can try to control how we react to it.
And.
Create environments that if were to go sideways, that they would feel comfortable coming to us and, and divulging something whether, you know, it'd be, oh, I got stuck in this gambling situation, or somebody sent me a picture and I sent it to a friend.
And now by the way, that's distribution of child pornography.
Like there.
There are quick minutes where their decision, they're not equipped and they do it and then they just feel sick about it.
And if they don't feel like they have someone to turn to that's a very scary place to be.
And I think that's, that's what we saw in that, in that article that was
nancy giordano: On that post.
Right.
But also that, I think recognizing, you know, that having conversations with our children about the fact that you were manipulated by someone, someone did this to you, it's not because you were weak or because you were stupid, or because you, whatever, whatever, like this, someone preyed on you very intentionally.
Often, maybe sometimes it's, you know, more of.
One student doing to another.
But increasingly we're seeing that it's not just students that are doing this to one another, right?
It is outside entities that are doing it for exploitation reasons.
And for kids to realize just the same way that we taught them about, like, I taught them about, you know, nutrition.
I taught them about digital literacy and digital hygiene, and the fact that these bot, you know, whatever algorithms are out to exploit you, trying to get your attention, trying to do whatever, the same thing now that is happening here in this space.
And so I think that's, and part of the reason I wanted to do this podcast.
In general is to have parents be aware of all the things that are shifting and changing around this and package in a way that's a little faster to get to than to go and have all the conversations you and I are having with people online.
Uh, but to recognize how intense this environment is for them, and that again, they're preying on shame.
That's the, that's the, the thing that makes this whole mechanism work for exploiters and silence, right?
And so if we can make space, like I even when, you know, and the statistics are grin, you know, one out of, I think four children are gonna experience something pretty horrific in one way or another.
And so when my daughter went to university, I did sit down and have a conversation with her and say, listen, I, I'm sure this is not gonna happen to you, but the statistics are pretty grand.
Even if, God forbid you were raped right by someone you knew or something you didn't know, it will not break you.
Jen Davidson: Right.
nancy giordano: not something that's gonna take you down.
This is not something that's gonna be something that you have to live with in the dark.
This is not something that you can't, you know, we, we will work through this together.
We will get through this.
This is something that unfortunately, in our society is happening in a way that we can't control it as much as we should.
But it maybe it will not take you down,
Jen Davidson: Right,
nancy giordano: and I think just by just naming what the worst thing is that could happen, and just like at least saying if that happens, we're, we're in it together.
It gave her some sense of relief around it.
Like I wasn't Pollyanna that it couldn't happen, you know?
Jen Davidson: I mean, 'cause it's, I mean, you hear it, you hear it through friends, you see it online.
And again, I would just, of the things that I did quite frequently and would encourage other parents to do is when you read those articles, sit down and say, did you, did
nancy giordano: Yeah.
Jen Davidson: about this?
Talk about it.
And then tell them the situation and then ask, stop talking and ask, what would you do in this situation?
Like.
Tell me how you would've handled this.
You know, like just how you feel right now and start those conversations because, and then re reinforcing it by saying, we are always on your side.
We are always here.
There is nothing you can do that will ever make me stop loving you and wanting to protect you.
So just reminding them and having those hypothetical conversations where they can actually stop and try to imagine a scenario, because I do think that helps them step into the situation and really think about it, and maybe the conversation doesn't go that deep then.
They will think about it and say, look, if you wanna come back and, and you have any more questions, or talk about this again, let's do it because this is really scary.
And letting our kids know this isn't fear.
And that's one of the things that I did wrong.
I was a catastrophizer I mean, my kids joke about it and.
I don't want it.
I didn't, I wasn't trying to be a negative scanner, but I grew up in a world where we didn't have all of these risks, and we have so much information and things seem scarier, but maybe they're not, they're equally, and we just didn't read about it because you had to pick up a newspaper.
And so I, I want them to understand the dangers of the world without putting my fears on them, but also let them know that it scares me and that I'm here if something goes wrong.
So
nancy giordano: Yeah, I think that that.
Jen Davidson: me.
nancy giordano: You talk about, I think, in the book, and I think that there's a really fine line right, between making them aware of things and not becoming a fearmonger around it.
And I think that, and, and, but I think again, part of it is being honest about your own fears.
I'm afraid of this because, right.
I'm afraid of this because are are you afraid of this?
For the same reason.
Like, and, and, and it's interesting to see that they may not be that, you know, their ability to call out even like AI slop so fast compared to what we are able to go see.
You know, I had actually my, uh, my neighbors over for a holiday toast a couple of nights ago, and one of the, they brought, you know, their young son who I think is like maybe 10.
And we had like a Christmas scene up on the computer and was like, oh, look at that.
AI generated blah, blah, like.
How do you know that's AI generated?
And it could easily point out to me the seven things that were inconsistent with that photo and knew immediately that that was not real.
I'm like, oh my God, you're so good at that.
You know?
And so I do think sometimes giving them more credit than than we often do about their savviness.
About their ability to read a space or a room, a community, a and a situation.
And with they that they know that they've got a, a, a path out of it if it gets crazy.
But I think even being able to articulate that and have them recognize that they are better prepared, then we may think that they are in a moment like that makes us all feel really, really good.
Right.
Jen Davidson: and, and that goes back to just letting our kids fail.
I mean, this is one of the things that I think talked about a lot sometimes when we have opportunities to step back.
We can literally watch our kids step up like that.
That is the tool that is going to carry them through life and we can't constantly sweep in and save them from everything.
And it's hard to do in the time.
It's very hard, especially if there's something you can do to intervene to stop the pain.
It's hard to watch our kids suffer and and have those moments, but it is so crucial.
And if we can.
Let them fail in a contained environment early.
Then that helps build the skillset for when they get older.
nancy giordano: I think there's two things.
One, you know, I remember my, one of my old bosses that my children were really young was like little children, little problems, big children, big problems.
And I like carried that narrative forever and I've worn some other people around it because, yeah, it's easy to say that when they're in third grade, it's a lot harder to do that when they're, you know, as.
Whatever junior in high school or heading into college, like those become much, much scarier and bigger things.
And again, I think the stakes are higher.
There was a kid who, you know, decided to go streak at one of our high school football games when my kids were young and ended up being booked on a sex crime because he happened to flash a 12-year-old, you know, that was sitting on the end zone.
And so, uh, these are, the risks are different.
This is the other thing I'm try and teach my children is that, you know, things we got away with back in the day, you don't get, get away with.
Now people put a lot more scrutiny on things that.
Footprint's going to stay with you forever, right?
When you put it online or you say it some way.
So really trying to teach them a bit how the world works.
So even in that, there are things they can teach us and I think there are things that we can teach them.
And this goes back to again, why the conversations are so important and to have them bilaterally, right, to have them in both ways as we move forward.
So one last conversation I just sort of wanna open up before we finish up, which is conversations about the future.
You and I have both confided again, offline that we have these sensitive children that are thinking a lot about, uh, you know.
How the world is unfolding, either from an environmental standpoint or from a political standpoint or technological standpoint, right?
There are a lot of questions that they carry and often a lot of fears that they carry about what this world is sort of presenting to them right now and what it's gonna look like in the near or far future.
And I think that's also really, really important conversation to have and to have thoughtfully and
Jen Davidson: Yes,
nancy giordano: with them.
Jen Davidson: And I think in this, the conversation we were speaking about earlier is one of the things that I try to myself because this is still new for me too, is sort of normalizing the unknown without diminishing the emotion they're feeling around it.
And if.
You know, it's really easy to say, oh, we don't know.
'cause we don't, we don't know.
So we don't even know what to say to them.
So, and we're having those same fears, but to literally sit in that with them and say this, you're right.
This is super scary.
And I, don't know.
But then reframe to hope, and this is one of those things that, I mean.
When you've got a kid that's a feeler.
don't want them to think it's not worth trying.
You gotta keep trying.
That's what hope is.
This is what I tried to explain is yes, it's dark and there are some things that we cannot, I can't touch, we can't affect, what can we do?
In, in,
nancy giordano: Okay.
Jen Davidson: world right now.
Like, let's focus on that because I think, and it seems overwhelming at times and it seems like we're not gonna make a difference, but if we can just give them a sense of agency to make a decision to move a certain way toward hope, then, then we can try to keep those communication lines open.
That's what I will
nancy giordano: Well, yeah.
Jen Davidson: of these new changes coming, coming toward us at rapid, rapid speed.
nancy giordano: Rapid change.
And I think, again, part of my whole, you know, ethos in our family has been change is coming and it's gonna be great because in many ways it obliterates so many of the systems and so many of the constructs that were not very fairly.
Constructed to begin with, right?
They came with a lot of bias.
They came with a lot of, uh, history that was really painful.
There's a lot of things that we can shift and change.
I mean, you, this here, even talk about the future of work and jobs.
I feel pretty strongly that sitting in an office from 7:30 AM to 7:00 PM six, whatever, five days a week, six days a week doing whatever it is you're doing on your computer is not.
The way that humanity was designed to thrive in the real world.
So what amazing opportunity if we got a chance to like really shift and change, uh, the future of working and really think about the future of work differently.
And so I do then pivot to my, you know, again, like I say, my natural.
Not just optimism or hopeful, but like, no, this is an amazing opportunity.
Like what would you want that really to look like?
Like, okay, if this is happening, like what does that mean?
It's possible to be here.
That's easier to do with economic stuff with, to some extent political stuff, even though that's really scary.
Now, particularly if you're a young person looking at what's happening in the us and how we're being perceived around the world, it's, it's crazy.
And you start to see the uprising actually around the world, like more and more countries.
What you're seeing is the, you know, the youth quake, uh, uprising in many countries where they feel like it is unfair or the economic opportunity isn't what it was promised, or they feel like the government is corrupt and not taking care of them.
And so it's an interesting experience and right now to also hold that responsibility.
That they may increasingly feel to try and change systems that they think are unjust.
Right, and, and, and where is our responsibility or not in that?
I mean, again, these are intense and big conversations and as people have heard me say, if they've listened to all of the episodes so far that I didn't always get that right because I jump in and wanna swoop in with.
Jen Davidson: Right,
nancy giordano: I wanna open with like possibility and with pathways and with new framing and with new whatever.
And they just wanted that moment to feel that sense of like,
Jen Davidson: right,
nancy giordano: they want me to tune into how scary the feeling really is,
Jen Davidson: Yep.
nancy giordano: know?
And, uh, I think that part of what your book does a lot is, you know, helping kids build that sense of grit and agency and that sense of, of, of trusting oneself throughout their.
Childhood and into a young, young adulthood that I think that we remind them of in these moments.
And it still can feel really overwhelming, right?
Your child is really worried about the environment and I'm really worried that we're going to an authoritarian rule
Jen Davidson: right.
I
nancy giordano: both of them have good evidence.
Jen Davidson: Yes, yes.
And all feelings are valid.
And again, this is just one of those things as as a family unit.
We, you know, not every family is a safe place to say how you feel or, you know, having those feelings validated and say, we can have differing ideas and we can discuss this and it's scary, but like, what, what can, you know, what do you think about it?
And start the questions and get, find, find out where they're coming from, what their viewpoints are and.
And let it go.
We just had a conversation last night and both my kids are home and it was, I mean, it ran the gamut.
We talked politics, we talked like history, I mean all of the, all of it.
And listening to them, my husband and I kind of just looked and just let the kids just watch themselves and learn from each other of their viewpoints because they haven't been in the same house for a long time.
And what a great gift that was for them to be able to share their views with each other in a safe place.
And they both learned something.
I can tell you that.
nancy giordano: Right.
And so I think there's a perfect way to round out the conversation now because you end your book by inviting us to not just think about this inside our own little families, but to recognize that we're part of bigger communities, right?
And to be in conversation with each other as part of why I had my neighbors over the other night.
And actually I was really proud that my 25-year-old who's been spending a lot of time with this girlfriend who's leaving.
Country for a, an opportunity for a few months.
Made the effort to come back and hang with the neighbors, which I was really, really proud of.
Jen Davidson: great.
Yeah.
nancy giordano: because he enjoyed and it felt like it was important to get to know, you know, I mean, we've known our people on our street for a zillion years, but we haven't hung out and we haven't had a toast.
And one of the neighbors had passed away in the last year and we wanted to honor her 'cause she was a big Christmas person.
And it was just a, you know, it was just a sense of ritual.
It was just a sense of connecting.
It was just a sense of tuning in about what's going on with each other, uh, you know, with everybody.
And so I think having conversation.
Period with people broader and outside of our unit is important.
And the more diverse those conversations can be, certainly the better.
For the same reasons that, you know, your son and daughter learned something from each other yesterday.
But what are you doing now that your children are grown and where are you?
Who are you sharing all this wisdom with these days?
Missy.
Jen Davidson: I know.
So, I mean, in a perfect world, you know, you, when you write a book, you have to come up with your why and they, they drill this into you and I. I have thought the writing the book is just the book.
I mean, I hope it helps as many people as possible start the conversation and feel empowered to do so.
But the piece that I miss so much is getting in the community.
I mean, you talk about you had a moms group I did too, but.
through basically like three months of age and people go their separate ways.
The connection, it takes a village like, I wanna get out in communities, let's get together a group of people, start a conversation about the book, and then let them continue on in that community and, and build little pockets for people because the isolation is intense right now and everybody's online and you can be part of a Facebook group or all of these different things.
But you're still, you.
You turn that off and you feel alone, or you see what everybody else is doing and you feel alone and people need to touch grass.
Let's get outside and let's, let's build our communities where we can real people, communities.
Because soon enough we're gonna be sharing the space with, like you say, who knows, humanoids or people be roaming around.
I couldn't even venture a guess how soon that's coming, but we need to, we need to connect now more than ever.
That
nancy giordano: Yeah.
And I think making that a, a priority, like really making that a priority, I think that all of us have the ability to go do that, but we don't prioritize it.
And I think that making that really intentional effort to go do that is a really, really key inoculation to so much of this other stuff that we're feeling and helps our children recognize how important that is too in their own lives to prioritize that.
And I think, again, I will gender it a bit and say for boys as.
Even more so than girls, because I think for girls sometimes it's a natural inclination.
Uh, one of my boys is super social.
The other one a little less so.
But I see with my partner, like he has not prioritized that in his own life, right?
And now you see him as a man without a bunch of friends and a bunch of people to talk about these various life stages with.
And uh, I think we all need each other in pretty significant ways and need to have space to be able to have the vulnerable.
Sometimes scary, sometimes also phenomenal conversations.
I'm just gonna back up and also say, you know, he grew up in a household where he couldn't brag about the really great things that happened.
'cause there there are all a lot of insecurities that existed inside a system.
And so he just diminished his life the whole time.
And I also wanted to be a, you know, a place where you can play as big and shine as bright as you want to in this space, and people are cheering you on when you are.
I think that's a really, really key part of this whole thing.
Jen Davidson: Really
nancy giordano: So.
Jen Davidson: People need people.
We've, we cannot lose sight of that and.
People, the more people we have in our lives to support us to, to lift us up and to be there when things get tough.
That's gonna be very, very crucial going forward Now.
It's
nancy giordano: Uh, right, right now.
Exactly.
And I think again, the more that you can, you can bloom that so that then it becomes more and more, uh, accessible to you as things get a little rockier, because I will say it's gonna get rockier,
Jen Davidson: Yeah.
nancy giordano: get more disruptive, more stuff is gonna fall apart.
We can, you know, start to build more res, I know resilience is even the right word, but preparation for that in many different ways.
And I think that your book is a big part of helping us do that.
So thank you so much, Jen, for the time and love that you've poured into both the book and your family and now, uh, all of our families as we, uh, navigate this together.
Thank you so much.
Jen Davidson: you.
Thank you so much.
nancy giordano: Wishing you so much good luck with all of it and more and more conversations to come.
Jen Davidson: Yes.
Keep the conversation going and keep talking.