WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.784 --> 00:00:08.314 Today on the Futurist Mom, we're talking about something every parent struggles with, which is how do you have the hard conversations with your kids, especially when they're pushing you away. 00:00:09.014 --> 00:00:17.324 This starts young because when our kids hit the teenage years, the stakes get higher, and we need to talk about sex failure, relationships, and money. 00:00:17.849 --> 00:00:23.729 But today's kids are also navigating threats that we never faced and mental health challenges that can spiral into deep crisis. 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:28.499 And increasingly, they're turning to AI companions that may feel safer to confide in than us. 00:00:28.919 --> 00:00:30.419 You're right when these conversations matter. 00:00:30.419 --> 00:00:32.189 Most many of us retreat. 00:00:32.519 --> 00:00:36.419 We worry that we'll say the wrong thing or that our kids won't want to hear from us or push us away. 00:00:37.139 --> 00:00:40.949 Some parents turn to surveillance and monitoring, but that's not the answer, is it? 00:00:41.429 --> 00:00:42.419 Real connection is. 00:00:44.184 --> 00:00:45.654 Hi, I am Nancy Ano. 00:00:46.284 --> 00:00:56.094 I'm a strategist, global speaker, author, and mom of three really focused on creating a safe and thriving future for all children and hopefully all people. 00:00:56.454 --> 00:01:08.604 And today our guest, Jen Shoemaker Davidson, is here to talk about this struggle intimately, though she's not a clinician or formerly trained parenting expert, she's a mom who figured out how to stay connected to her teens even when they wanted her the least. 00:01:11.123 --> 00:01:23.422 Her new book, keep Talking Conversations with our Kids when they want us leased, but Need Us Most Comes out right now, January, 2026 and offers practical strategies born from Real experience. 00:01:25.682 --> 00:01:40.022 Jen will share how to build the kind of trust and open communication that serves as the foundation for navigating everything else, the traditional tough topics, the new digital age challenges, and helping our kids process their hopes and fears for a future that looks nothing like the one we grew up expecting. 00:01:40.532 --> 00:01:42.182 Welcome to the futurist Mom Chen. 00:01:43.248 --> 00:01:47.348 nancy giordano: Jen, I'm so excited that you have the time to talk about conversations that matter. 00:01:47.378 --> 00:01:49.568 Thank you so much for being here with us today. 00:01:49.934 --> 00:01:50.264 Jen Davidson: Oh my God. 00:01:50.264 --> 00:01:51.314 Thank you so much for having me. 00:01:51.314 --> 00:01:53.534 This is a conversation I'm very excited to have. 00:01:54.563 --> 00:01:56.483 nancy giordano: Well, because you just wrote a book, which is super exciting. 00:01:56.483 --> 00:02:02.753 So first I'm gonna say high five that you know, that is on many people's, you know, mental bucket list and they don't always get it done. 00:02:02.753 --> 00:02:10.403 So the fact that it has gone from an idea to actually a book that is now, by the time this podcast comes out, we'll just be launching at the same time in January, 2026. 00:02:10.803 --> 00:02:11.613 I'm gonna say high five. 00:02:12.003 --> 00:02:12.513 Well done. 00:02:12.564 --> 00:02:12.834 Jen Davidson: so 00:02:13.053 --> 00:02:13.233 nancy giordano: Thank. 00:02:13.764 --> 00:02:14.724 Jen Davidson: Everybody's got a story. 00:02:14.724 --> 00:02:16.524 I was lucky to finally get mine on paper. 00:02:17.643 --> 00:02:25.383 nancy giordano: Well lucky, and I think again, you know, persistent to make it happen, but there's something, I think it's because you have a, you know, when you have a, a real pull, there's something you really want to say. 00:02:25.383 --> 00:02:26.883 It makes it easier to do it. 00:02:26.883 --> 00:02:28.173 And your book is really easy to read. 00:02:28.173 --> 00:02:29.133 It's really, really friendly. 00:02:29.133 --> 00:02:38.193 But it's about a very, very important con topic about how we have meaningful conversations with our kids, particularly as they get into teen years when they wanna speak to us less. 00:02:38.193 --> 00:02:43.773 So talk to me about your journey to the book and like why you feel like it's important to have this out in the world now. 00:02:44.589 --> 00:02:45.039 Jen Davidson: Yes. 00:02:45.099 --> 00:02:57.339 So I just realized when my kids were in high school, I had a lot of, uh, ideas that I wanted to make sure that I spoke with them about before I launched them, and worried honestly that they would be out in the world and clueless. 00:02:57.339 --> 00:03:03.964 And I had, I, I'm Type A, I had a bucket list of things that I needed to get out, and so I realized that having these conversations. 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:07.789 At home and when they're busy and distracted, did not work. 00:03:08.179 --> 00:03:10.129 So I came up with an idea. 00:03:10.129 --> 00:03:18.829 I called my life lesson lunches, and I would take each kid individually out to lunch and I would have a topic and I'd let 'em know ahead of time sometimes, sometimes I didn't. 00:03:19.219 --> 00:03:23.209 And I said, you don't have to talk, but I'm going to, and I want you to listen and. 00:03:23.784 --> 00:03:25.374 This is what we're gonna discuss today. 00:03:25.374 --> 00:03:34.944 And I basically went through my list and I realized that these were all conversations they did not necessarily wanna have at that time. 00:03:35.004 --> 00:03:49.674 But now that I'm past it, I am reflecting back and I'm here to say they valued it tremendously and I was kind of onto something and they asked me to write it down so they could do the same thing with their kids when they have their eventual families. 00:03:49.674 --> 00:03:51.954 And the book was born. 00:03:52.853 --> 00:03:53.093 nancy giordano: Wow. 00:03:53.093 --> 00:03:56.033 That's the biggest compliment ever, which is asking you to write it down. 00:03:56.033 --> 00:04:04.003 And the second I was tied with the fact that your oldest child, Emma, and wrote the forward to your book, which is also a pretty extraordinary thing about. 00:04:04.388 --> 00:04:13.478 Right about how important it was that these, but I think it was probably, I'm assuming more than just the life lesson lunches, that this is a pattern that had started very, very early on when your kids were young. 00:04:13.478 --> 00:04:17.978 Because I believe you can't just suddenly, I mean, it's better to start later than never. 00:04:17.978 --> 00:04:18.638 For sure. 00:04:18.668 --> 00:04:22.178 Like to your point, I think you told me this off camera, that it's never too late. 00:04:22.733 --> 00:04:35.123 To have these kinds of, uh, meaningful and heart to heart conversations, but my theory has always been that you set that pattern for that when they're very young and it makes it a lot easier to get into the really difficult conversations as they get older. 00:04:35.243 --> 00:04:35.483 Right. 00:04:35.483 --> 00:04:37.703 To have built that trust and to have built that openness. 00:04:38.384 --> 00:04:38.954 Jen Davidson: Exactly. 00:04:38.954 --> 00:04:50.324 Like I say, it's, it's a lot easier to ask the tougher questions when you start with the easy ones, when they're little and just even building the conversational like patterns with them. 00:04:50.324 --> 00:04:52.964 They understand that, you know, don't say, how was your day? 00:04:53.774 --> 00:04:54.014 know? 00:04:54.084 --> 00:04:58.644 One word answers are never gonna get you into the conversations you wanna have with your kids. 00:04:58.704 --> 00:05:02.394 Like open-ended curiosity, that is the number one thing. 00:05:02.604 --> 00:05:09.324 If we're curious about really what's going on with our kids, it does flow and that's, I think, the piece that people overthink. 00:05:10.578 --> 00:05:12.533 nancy giordano: How much do they care about what's going on in our life? 00:05:13.103 --> 00:05:16.988 Like when we talk about what's going on in our world because. 00:05:17.129 --> 00:05:17.289 Jen Davidson: honestly. 00:05:19.619 --> 00:05:27.989 I, I think they are so self-centered during these years that they, their world is themselves, their friends. 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:36.539 And I talk about this in my book where I was at the mall with Emma and she ran into some people, we were new to the area, new to the school, and she's like, I can't be seen with you. 00:05:36.599 --> 00:05:39.809 And just, just left it. 00:05:40.589 --> 00:05:41.339 just ditched me. 00:05:41.339 --> 00:05:53.549 And I mean, I understood I was hurt at the time, but we do not matter in the sense that they're, they're building their identity, they're pushing the boundaries, and, and that's important and developmentally very necessary. 00:05:53.579 --> 00:06:01.649 We just have to stay curious, keep asking, and understand where they are and, and try not to, to take it so personally. 00:06:02.638 --> 00:06:07.643 nancy giordano: I think that trying not to take it too personally, part is a really, really important part of this whole conversation around future small, right? 00:06:07.643 --> 00:06:14.053 There's a lot of places that when we start thinking about the future or talking about some of these again, more tender topics, it is easy. 00:06:14.473 --> 00:06:19.273 To take them personally, and we've had another whole episode about how we need to do our own work internally. 00:06:19.453 --> 00:06:19.903 Right now. 00:06:19.903 --> 00:06:27.433 I talk a lot about that in the professional world, but I think it applies obviously even more importantly at home, that we know what our own sensitivities and triggers are. 00:06:27.433 --> 00:06:33.403 So when those things happen, we leave space for our children, have their own authentic experience and don't want to imprint our needs on them. 00:06:33.403 --> 00:06:37.813 That has been a, a literally 20 something year lesson for me with my own children. 00:06:37.873 --> 00:06:38.833 To navigate. 00:06:38.893 --> 00:06:42.493 So when you get to these tricky conversations, you, you give them the space. 00:06:42.493 --> 00:06:46.273 So is your book more focused on the teenage years or does it start younger? 00:06:46.303 --> 00:06:47.953 Like, where should we drop into this conversation? 00:06:48.889 --> 00:06:52.369 Jen Davidson: I honestly, like every family, they're different. 00:06:52.369 --> 00:06:59.959 My kids, you know, the maturity levels of what they're exposed to, you know, the kids that are staying home, two, working parents are going to have a lot more lessons. 00:06:59.959 --> 00:07:02.059 They're gonna have way more autonomy. 00:07:02.089 --> 00:07:03.739 They're gonna learn a lot more. 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:10.669 And so then people who are being helicopter parented, and I don't say that in a, in necessarily a bad way. 00:07:10.669 --> 00:07:16.429 It's just your parents are at home, they're meeting your needs, they're driving you around, they're taking care of all the things. 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:24.679 so it could be earlier for some, and again, like I said, read the book early and you'll know, oh, I can go back. 00:07:24.679 --> 00:07:28.699 That's happening now and then revisit, because I think understanding. 00:07:29.164 --> 00:07:30.694 Kind of what it's gonna look like. 00:07:30.694 --> 00:07:33.004 The path going forward is important. 00:07:33.244 --> 00:07:34.564 So you can make a plan. 00:07:34.684 --> 00:07:37.714 And again, the book starts with talk to yourself. 00:07:38.104 --> 00:07:40.024 You have to be ready to talk to your kids. 00:07:40.024 --> 00:07:41.074 You have to know how to. 00:07:42.004 --> 00:07:44.074 calm, listen, intense. 00:07:44.134 --> 00:07:49.984 You know, like it's, there are so many tools that I did not, I did not get right a lot. 00:07:50.374 --> 00:07:57.934 And so a lot of this is my lived experience, my failures, my mistakes in saying it took me a while to get there. 00:07:58.084 --> 00:08:06.544 I monologued a lot and my kids tuned me out and I had to really take a look at myself and say I have to do something different. 00:08:06.844 --> 00:08:08.854 And it's not on them, it's on me. 00:08:10.468 --> 00:08:13.348 nancy giordano: Okay, so these life lesson lunches, how frequently did you have them? 00:08:14.089 --> 00:08:17.269 Jen Davidson: Oh, it, I would say maybe once every few months. 00:08:17.269 --> 00:08:17.929 I mean, it was not 00:08:18.238 --> 00:08:18.718 nancy giordano: Okay. 00:08:18.739 --> 00:08:20.569 Jen Davidson: but I mean, I, but I talked a lot. 00:08:20.629 --> 00:08:21.409 I mean, that's the thing. 00:08:21.409 --> 00:08:23.989 I mean, this was, those were the big ones, right? 00:08:23.989 --> 00:08:28.669 Like mistakes and sex and, you know, what are you passionate about? 00:08:28.674 --> 00:08:31.489 And all the things, you know, life skills. 00:08:31.729 --> 00:08:35.669 They were big ones that needed, you know, specific attention. 00:08:35.669 --> 00:08:37.754 But I mean, I did this all along the way. 00:08:39.138 --> 00:08:47.553 nancy giordano: Uh, for me, the, the car ride, right to and from long commutes to school was such an amazing time because you're not looking at each other, you're, you're parallel. 00:08:47.553 --> 00:08:51.033 You're just kinda stuck in this space, uh, but you're not making contact or taking a walk. 00:08:51.363 --> 00:08:59.413 Again, when you're walking, it's a different experience than when you're standing right across from one another, uh, and feeling like you're on the couch, being interrogated by someone. 00:08:59.893 --> 00:09:02.323 Uh, so why do we think that? 00:09:02.443 --> 00:09:07.113 I mean, again, your research and your experience in this around why this becomes such a. Tricky. 00:09:07.113 --> 00:09:08.823 It should be such a natural thing. 00:09:08.823 --> 00:09:11.763 You would think that as our children age, they, you know, we wanna impart our wisdom. 00:09:11.763 --> 00:09:12.843 They wanna hear our wisdom. 00:09:12.843 --> 00:09:16.623 Like it should just be sort of a, you know, a wonderful road to adulthoods. 00:09:16.623 --> 00:09:17.283 But it's not. 00:09:17.343 --> 00:09:19.743 It is a moment where we really sh check out. 00:09:19.743 --> 00:09:28.533 And I remember at one point going to some sort of, I think it was probably a parent teacher conference or a back to school night, and there was a real emphasis on, once your child turns 10, don't duck out. 00:09:28.863 --> 00:09:31.113 Like they need you more than ever past 10. 00:09:31.113 --> 00:09:35.943 And I thought, wow, that was such an interesting morning, that there's that moment where we think that, okay, they're good. 00:09:36.203 --> 00:09:41.603 We can let them, you know, rock on into fifth grade and middle school and they don't need us was really eye-opening. 00:09:42.023 --> 00:09:46.673 So what is your experience there about why we are so challenged? 00:09:47.314 --> 00:09:54.979 Jen Davidson: You know, I. feel like parents, when the kids start to push back, you know, and I have this whole lap bar analogy that I talk about. 00:09:54.979 --> 00:10:02.809 You know when you get on a rollercoaster and you put that harness down, the first thing we do is we push against it, and we're doing that not to see that it's gonna fly open. 00:10:02.989 --> 00:10:03.679 Off we go. 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:03.829 They're. 00:10:04.274 --> 00:10:07.934 We're doing it to make sure that we're safe, secure and we're stable. 00:10:07.934 --> 00:10:14.054 And that really helped me think about it when my kids were constantly pushing on me and pushing back. 00:10:14.414 --> 00:10:16.934 And a lot of parents give up at that point. 00:10:16.964 --> 00:10:18.254 I mean, we feel rejected. 00:10:18.254 --> 00:10:24.044 We take it personally and all of our fears and oh my gosh, we're losing them. 00:10:24.044 --> 00:10:28.364 And I think we just are almost paralyzed into inaction because. 00:10:28.579 --> 00:10:30.589 We don't know how to reach them. 00:10:30.589 --> 00:10:40.889 And then the longer, you know, there's this visual that I remember having after I got married and, you know, you start to finally have the real problems and, and you have to have that conversation again. 00:10:40.889 --> 00:10:46.319 This, this can travel through all relationships that if you're walking toward each other. 00:10:46.404 --> 00:10:46.944 Right. 00:10:47.304 --> 00:10:49.614 You will always be able to find each other. 00:10:49.614 --> 00:10:53.964 If one person turns away and you're just chasing, you cannot do that. 00:10:53.964 --> 00:10:56.454 Like I kept thinking to myself, I cannot. 00:10:56.724 --> 00:10:58.164 I need to get in front of them. 00:10:58.164 --> 00:11:00.024 I need to continually get in front of them. 00:11:00.024 --> 00:11:08.424 And we are afraid to have those conversations, lose opportunities and time, and that's when they need us most. 00:11:08.424 --> 00:11:14.184 And I just encourage parents to lean in and, and don't give up because we know our kids. 00:11:15.059 --> 00:11:15.959 And that's the thing. 00:11:16.259 --> 00:11:20.309 We know them and they need us to know them. 00:11:20.699 --> 00:11:29.579 And that is a piece that really launches kids to have that trust and that security and, and these conversations can help get you there. 00:11:31.318 --> 00:11:34.478 nancy giordano: You talk a lot about parents being worried that they're gonna say the wrong thing. 00:11:34.568 --> 00:11:38.768 And I think that's a really interesting thing because theoretically we do know our children, right? 00:11:38.768 --> 00:11:42.578 And hopefully we know ourselves well enough and we think we've got something important to say. 00:11:42.908 --> 00:11:44.748 Uh, but I think that it is. 00:11:45.298 --> 00:11:48.598 Fair to assume right now our children are feeling really, really fragile. 00:11:48.598 --> 00:11:50.278 I've done a lot of stuff in the TEDx world. 00:11:50.278 --> 00:12:02.908 We did a lot of stuff with TEDx youth and so I spent a lot of time with teenagers and we spent a lot of time talking about these kinds of things, and they're really, you see them over the course of time in which I was working with this group of rotating teens, like every year would be a different group of students. 00:12:03.278 --> 00:12:04.928 How they became more and more. 00:12:05.343 --> 00:12:09.783 I don't wanna say fragile 'cause I don't think they're fragile, but definitely sensitive and attuned to rejection. 00:12:10.023 --> 00:12:16.863 Attuned to not feeling enough, attuned to feeling a shame around whatever behavior may have happened online or not, or what's going on with their friends. 00:12:16.863 --> 00:12:19.893 Like I do feel like they're becoming that somebody used to talk about them. 00:12:19.893 --> 00:12:26.633 Either teacups or Crispies was an interesting description that Wendy Mogul had for children many, many years ago. 00:12:26.663 --> 00:12:28.253 But they're either like burnt out and fried. 00:12:28.568 --> 00:12:32.168 Or that they are so fragile because of whatever. 00:12:32.168 --> 00:12:34.688 You can talk to, the whole set of reasons why. 00:12:34.998 --> 00:12:37.038 And we're afraid to somehow push on that. 00:12:37.248 --> 00:12:37.573 Is that fair? 00:12:38.529 --> 00:12:38.979 Jen Davidson: Yes. 00:12:38.979 --> 00:12:57.039 I mean, I think the unknown, and that's something that I think we, you know, I'm excited to talk about because even since I've written this book, so much has changed in conversations that now are incredibly relevant and probably would go higher up on the, on the rankings of what to say first. 00:12:57.669 --> 00:12:59.499 But, you know, our kids. 00:13:00.204 --> 00:13:15.024 Our kids are getting so much information from their friends, from the internet at a level we cannot even compete with, and, and to jump into like AI and, and them talking to chat GBT or whatever. 00:13:16.164 --> 00:13:17.064 Here's the thing. 00:13:17.214 --> 00:13:26.404 The difference between their parents and a chatbot or, you know, any other even a friend in some senses, not interrupting. 00:13:27.739 --> 00:13:34.169 They're validating, they you know, they are giving them what they want. 00:13:34.169 --> 00:13:40.409 They are giving, saying what they wanna hear, and we, we are telling them what they should be doing. 00:13:40.409 --> 00:13:43.139 We are correcting them and they don't wanna hear that. 00:13:43.619 --> 00:13:44.999 They think they're invincible still. 00:13:44.999 --> 00:13:50.099 They think they know it all and they don't care what we have to say. 00:13:50.369 --> 00:13:52.319 They would rather have the path of least resistance. 00:13:53.723 --> 00:13:54.383 nancy giordano: That's interesting. 00:13:54.503 --> 00:13:56.213 You know, we were talking a lot about ai. 00:13:56.213 --> 00:14:01.313 I'm really focused right now on AI Companions, so partly chatbots, partly at some point it's gonna be their doll. 00:14:01.923 --> 00:14:04.533 That's gonna be able to talk back to them in a very near future. 00:14:04.713 --> 00:14:04.953 Right. 00:14:04.953 --> 00:14:11.133 We talked a lot about already, uh, that I can build an AI companion that's like my favorite character from Fortnite or something else. 00:14:11.133 --> 00:14:13.863 And I have this like whole, uh, relationship with them. 00:14:13.863 --> 00:14:17.223 So there's a lot that's going on that again, parents aren't playing with this. 00:14:17.223 --> 00:14:20.133 Don't even know, to your point, that it's happening online. 00:14:20.383 --> 00:14:21.433 And there's a lot of, you know. 00:14:21.588 --> 00:14:26.178 Pros and significant cons and a lot of oversight that needs to happen in that place. 00:14:26.178 --> 00:14:28.038 That is not happening right now. 00:14:28.458 --> 00:14:38.208 Uh, but I think what's interesting about it is that as our children, like, so I was having a conversation with someone today about would I build an AI chatbot of myself for other work that I'm doing? 00:14:38.268 --> 00:14:42.858 Like I wrote a book too, and would I create a chat bot so people could ask questions about leadering and they'd be able to get an answers. 00:14:42.858 --> 00:14:46.428 So all of a sudden, as you were talking just now, I'm like, oh my God, what if we created our own like parenting chat? 00:14:46.478 --> 00:15:01.508 Bot and our child could go to, you know, Jen, GPT and you know, mom, GPT, uh, as opposed to gonna chat GPT so they could have sort of the same openness around these conversations and questions and get our values and get our perspectives and get our stuff. 00:15:01.828 --> 00:15:04.348 So that it's not randomly being supported by anybody on the internet. 00:15:04.348 --> 00:15:08.368 But if we done it a more, uh, private and anonymous way, that is not an, 00:15:08.594 --> 00:15:09.104 Jen Davidson: right, 00:15:09.268 --> 00:15:13.273 nancy giordano: a crazy thought to imagine that that would be something that would happen at some near future. 00:15:14.234 --> 00:15:28.874 Jen Davidson: Easily, I would say, and the part that I, that just, I would be so resistant to that, and the thing that I will scream from the rooftops is the piece that I think is missing so much is it's almost like parallel play. 00:15:28.874 --> 00:15:32.324 Families are sitting at dinner, but nobody's really interacting. 00:15:32.324 --> 00:15:38.864 We, you know, you could have four people sitting on a couch and everybody's on their device, or one person's watching tv and the other person's doing something. 00:15:39.824 --> 00:15:42.914 We are not connecting as much as we used to. 00:15:42.914 --> 00:15:47.924 And I think one of the best ways that I found to reach my kids is through storytelling. 00:15:48.584 --> 00:15:54.284 And that is a way I, 'cause when I was struggling, I thought, how do I connect with all my friends? 00:15:54.284 --> 00:15:56.774 I've always been told, oh Jen, you're a great storyteller. 00:15:56.774 --> 00:15:58.814 My story, I'm very animated and so. 00:15:59.564 --> 00:16:00.374 was like, you know what? 00:16:00.374 --> 00:16:09.674 I'm gonna start doing that and telling them about my past, my future, what I think, and, and engaging with them through stories because. 00:16:10.574 --> 00:16:13.604 if we don't pass those down to our kids, they will be lost. 00:16:13.874 --> 00:16:16.334 And that is the way history has been told. 00:16:16.664 --> 00:16:30.134 And so it's kind of going back to basics in a way, within your own family to sort of spark the conversation by going back to telling stories and asking them, listening that from them saying, tell me, you know, whatever it is. 00:16:30.134 --> 00:16:32.114 Tell me what happened today at school with a friend. 00:16:32.114 --> 00:16:35.114 Or did something surprise you or do you have any teachers that you love? 00:16:35.114 --> 00:16:35.384 I mean. 00:16:36.074 --> 00:16:40.004 Start the conversation and let them talk and then stop talking. 00:16:41.623 --> 00:16:45.733 nancy giordano: So I think that what I'm hearing from that is you start with your story to be able to open up the 00:16:45.974 --> 00:16:46.334 Jen Davidson: Right, 00:16:46.573 --> 00:16:49.693 nancy giordano: and then you pull out and let them do their thing. 00:16:49.753 --> 00:16:53.353 When they start to feel excited and inspired to share their own story, 00:16:53.474 --> 00:16:56.594 Jen Davidson: Yes, vulnerability brings connection. 00:16:57.164 --> 00:16:57.854 And 00:16:58.488 --> 00:16:58.608 nancy giordano: I. 00:16:58.724 --> 00:17:01.544 Jen Davidson: I mean, I share a lot about my life with people. 00:17:01.544 --> 00:17:03.854 I'm an open book and. 00:17:04.304 --> 00:17:08.564 I've always sort of wondered, you know, people don't do that. 00:17:08.564 --> 00:17:23.984 And I, for a variety of reasons, of course, but I also have been told that people feel very close to me in that sense because once you tell somebody something about your life, it opens an opportunity for them to share a similar experience. 00:17:23.984 --> 00:17:31.909 And when we can find alignment in something that we both been through or that we're struggling with or something funny that happened, or a place we live. 00:17:32.849 --> 00:17:38.824 It starts to build all of these different connections, and what we can do with our kids as well, 00:17:42.653 --> 00:17:42.923 nancy giordano: Yeah. 00:17:42.923 --> 00:17:45.923 And I think that there are lessons that we did learn growing up. 00:17:45.923 --> 00:17:56.893 You know, I was a kid who grew up in the, uh, seventies, eighties, and plenty of drugs were around, uh, you know, was in communities where I grew up in apartments where I grew up, where there were plenty of people who were doing that stuff, you know? 00:17:56.893 --> 00:17:59.813 And I didn't, I resisted for lots of different reasons. 00:17:59.813 --> 00:18:01.223 I'm not like I, that's a pretty good. 00:18:01.493 --> 00:18:02.213 Goody two shoes. 00:18:02.213 --> 00:18:08.123 But because I'd grown up with someone so much crazy and I didn't wanna be patterned into that as well, but uh, had my own reasons for doing it. 00:18:08.123 --> 00:18:13.553 But I think even to give your kids the strength to know that you don't have to do it the same way that everybody else is doing it, right? 00:18:13.553 --> 00:18:23.933 That I did buck the system in this way or that way, or if I didn't, the thing that I learned by having made that mistake and really wish that I hadn't done it that way, or gave myself a little bit of grace to go bump into that wall. 00:18:23.933 --> 00:18:26.363 And it was okay and I survived it, and it wasn't that big a deal. 00:18:26.413 --> 00:18:32.953 You know, as an interesting thing to, I do think they are more curious about our experience and our upbringing than we give them credit for. 00:18:32.953 --> 00:18:35.323 That's why I asked at the beginning about how much they wanna hear about our stories. 00:18:35.443 --> 00:18:40.543 They probably don't wanna hear about my day, but they do wanna hear about what I was like when I was 12 or 17. 00:18:40.843 --> 00:18:41.173 Yeah, 00:18:41.339 --> 00:18:41.849 Jen Davidson: Yeah. 00:18:41.939 --> 00:18:42.089 Oh, 00:18:42.163 --> 00:18:43.243 nancy giordano: I think that that totally makes a d 00:18:44.114 --> 00:18:44.474 Jen Davidson: Yeah. 00:18:44.894 --> 00:18:45.194 Yeah. 00:18:45.194 --> 00:18:45.824 I do believe 00:18:45.913 --> 00:18:46.273 nancy giordano: No, go ahead. 00:18:46.694 --> 00:18:48.704 Jen Davidson: Be, life is so different for them too. 00:18:48.704 --> 00:19:03.524 I had the conversation about Mothers Against Drunk Drivers and how I had the contract with my parents that if I was ever somewhere I would call them, no questions asked, they would not yell at me, abate me all the things, and my kids kind of looked at me like, why would you ever need that with ride share? 00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:07.619 how lucky they are that those opportunities exist. 00:19:07.619 --> 00:19:10.559 I mean, of course we probably had cabs, but we would still need a phone. 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.479 We'd have to go to a payphone to try to call a cab. 00:19:12.689 --> 00:19:13.379 Like we just had, 00:19:13.733 --> 00:19:13.913 nancy giordano: Yeah. 00:19:13.913 --> 00:19:14.273 Yeah, no. 00:19:14.273 --> 00:19:14.768 Totally different. 00:19:15.659 --> 00:19:21.479 Jen Davidson: And you know, it's interesting for them to hear what our life was like and how parts are relevant. 00:19:21.479 --> 00:19:31.469 Some aren't, but the reality is, in that same vein, if you're ever in a situation for whatever reason, you're being bullied, you're in a party you wanna get out of, you know, like still the same thing. 00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:33.299 I'm a safe place. 00:19:33.794 --> 00:19:34.154 Right. 00:19:34.454 --> 00:19:52.484 We want our kids to know that they can trust to come to us when things go wrong, because if they come to us sooner than later, we can help soften the blow, and sometimes we can't, but it gives them an opportunity to turn toward us, and that trust has to be built. 00:19:54.138 --> 00:19:55.788 nancy giordano: I'm not gonna shame or call out. 00:19:55.818 --> 00:19:56.388 Not even shame. 00:19:56.418 --> 00:19:57.168 I think that's an awful word. 00:19:57.318 --> 00:20:02.538 Uh, call out any of your children, but was there ever a moment where you did get called into doing something that was, uh. 00:20:03.768 --> 00:20:06.858 That upset you when it happened, but you're really grateful that they called you anyway. 00:20:06.978 --> 00:20:14.868 Because I can say that that definitely has happened to me and it was really like, contain, contain, contain the, you know, wanting to like lecture right now. 00:20:14.934 --> 00:20:15.324 Jen Davidson: Yeah. 00:20:15.738 --> 00:20:16.728 nancy giordano: emotion, I. 00:20:16.974 --> 00:20:28.164 Jen Davidson: and, and, and again, I had a situation that pressure for, you know, one of my kids was, they knew better They were being told, it's fine. 00:20:28.164 --> 00:20:29.064 It's not a big deal. 00:20:29.064 --> 00:20:33.204 And you know, your kids have that sort of like centered feeling of knowing, uh oh. 00:20:33.534 --> 00:20:36.414 That and then when they came home. 00:20:37.269 --> 00:20:42.789 I could tell something was up and it took 'em a little while to finally say I did something that I think I shouldn't have done. 00:20:42.909 --> 00:20:44.229 And it took a while though. 00:20:44.229 --> 00:20:48.489 Like I, I could tell, but again, you give 'em the opportunity and say, Hey, how did everything go? 00:20:48.939 --> 00:20:57.729 And I was beside myself that after everything I have taught them that they would make a decision like that. 00:20:57.729 --> 00:21:03.039 And it, uh, it took a lot for me not to be like, well, and I did. 00:21:03.069 --> 00:21:04.854 I mean, let's be clear, I definitely was like. 00:21:06.309 --> 00:21:08.499 What are you telling me right now? 00:21:08.499 --> 00:21:19.179 Like, I, I think I lost it for a minute, which I shouldn't have done, but then I kind of had to get into the mode of like, all right, let's talk this through and let's figure out how we can un unring this bell. 00:21:19.179 --> 00:21:22.809 And, and it turned out okay. 00:21:22.899 --> 00:21:25.959 It could have gone differently, but it definitely needed some intervention. 00:21:25.959 --> 00:21:29.649 And, you know, and it's a lesson that we still to this day discuss 00:21:30.683 --> 00:21:31.488 nancy giordano: Right and. 00:21:32.889 --> 00:21:33.219 Jen Davidson: yeah, 00:21:33.228 --> 00:21:46.548 nancy giordano: I was just gonna jump in and say, I think that it's also key to say that it's not only that we're only just like, you know, compassionately listening, I do think there are moments that we actively intervene in moments where our children need, you know, uh, need some help in some way or need some guidance. 00:21:46.548 --> 00:21:52.458 I mean, we definitely had, you know, a couple of altercations in the old high school level that like required some significant, like course correcting. 00:21:52.888 --> 00:21:53.668 On some stuff. 00:21:53.978 --> 00:22:12.858 And so I think it is again, that balance between like helping your kids through a really, really challenging time and knowing that they're still very loved and that they have, you know, nothing to feel ashamed of, but that there's something that they probably learned here in this moment in time about, you know, having, uh, and taking that, making that choice that I think is really, really key. 00:22:12.918 --> 00:22:14.593 But there's another thing that I want to talk about. 00:22:14.593 --> 00:22:14.873 If you. 00:22:15.773 --> 00:22:18.293 Do you wanna finish that thought or shall I jump into the next? 00:22:19.193 --> 00:22:24.863 Well, because I think that part of it was that you talk about in the beginning of your book, and I had the same experience, that we were pretty free range kids. 00:22:25.043 --> 00:22:27.203 We got to run around and do stuff all day long, no one knew. 00:22:27.203 --> 00:22:33.083 I tell my daughter again that I was 10 and I would rode my bike to the mall and then rode back along the roadway, probably without a helmet. 00:22:33.483 --> 00:22:35.103 And no one knew what we were doing all day long. 00:22:35.133 --> 00:22:37.053 And, uh, somehow we survived. 00:22:37.383 --> 00:22:43.473 I think that because parents have so many more ways to track their children and or prevent them from going off and doing those things. 00:22:44.018 --> 00:22:48.338 They often don't give their children that much freedom for lots of different perceived fears and reasons. 00:22:48.518 --> 00:22:56.258 And or you can see on a map where your child is, or you can see if they spent money at a certain store, you can see if they snuck out for lunch because they can see if they went to Whataburger on their app. 00:22:56.718 --> 00:23:01.098 Do you think that that then makes parents feel like they've got enough of a sense of what's going on for their children? 00:23:01.098 --> 00:23:03.018 They don't need to have those conversations? 00:23:03.108 --> 00:23:07.668 Or do you think like, well, like how is that playing into, I think modern parenting right now? 00:23:08.419 --> 00:23:12.439 Jen Davidson: I mean, I think a map can tell us where they are, but we have no idea who they're with and what they're doing. 00:23:12.469 --> 00:23:24.319 And so I think those conversations are still so important and, also being curious about their life, what they're doing, who they're spending time with, when they come back. 00:23:24.769 --> 00:23:25.969 It doesn't have to be, where were you? 00:23:25.969 --> 00:23:27.039 What'd you do, da da, da. 00:23:27.259 --> 00:23:28.974 It can be, you know, tell me about who you were with. 00:23:29.924 --> 00:23:30.644 What'd you guys talk 00:23:30.793 --> 00:23:31.243 nancy giordano: Right. 00:23:31.934 --> 00:23:36.944 Jen Davidson: get curious about their world, because this is the piece too that I think is so stressful. 00:23:37.064 --> 00:23:40.844 We don't wanna impose, we don't wanna like, we wanna honor some privacy. 00:23:40.844 --> 00:23:42.464 And I understand all of that. 00:23:42.854 --> 00:23:45.669 But just little things like is, is. 00:23:46.834 --> 00:24:02.464 Opening the door for them to come in and say, actually my friend has been struggling and they were telling us, and you know, these little micro moments of opportunity for them to share because they're processing, they're, maybe somebody came to them for help and are looking to bounce ideas off of us. 00:24:02.464 --> 00:24:05.524 And so if we don't, if they just come home and that's it. 00:24:05.854 --> 00:24:07.264 Oh, did Jon and Einstein you? 00:24:07.264 --> 00:24:07.714 Yes. 00:24:08.014 --> 00:24:08.914 And that's the end of it. 00:24:09.544 --> 00:24:11.614 know, it doesn't have to be, what were you doing? 00:24:11.614 --> 00:24:13.234 It can be what'd you guys do? 00:24:13.294 --> 00:24:14.339 It's all in how we. 00:24:15.169 --> 00:24:16.099 Sort of frame it. 00:24:16.849 --> 00:24:17.029 If we 00:24:17.208 --> 00:24:17.608 nancy giordano: Right. 00:24:17.818 --> 00:24:18.448 Yeah. 00:24:18.589 --> 00:24:19.549 Jen Davidson: share pieces. 00:24:19.729 --> 00:24:26.389 Not a lot maybe, but little bits they, they'll know we care enough and that we're there, you know, we don't wanna talk about it. 00:24:26.389 --> 00:24:26.719 Fine. 00:24:27.139 --> 00:24:28.879 You know, if you feel like it, I'm gonna be over here. 00:24:29.923 --> 00:24:31.158 nancy giordano: I, I do think they're caring. 00:24:32.683 --> 00:24:33.823 They're carrying a ton. 00:24:33.823 --> 00:24:47.548 And I do remember, again with one of my sons, I think that because he is again this really sensitive and really caring kid that he ended up holding a lot of stuff that was going on for his peers, was going on for his friends and trying to figure out how he was going to help, you know, them navigate or, or. 00:24:48.328 --> 00:24:53.488 You know, I think a key part of this conversation I certainly was had with my children is like, you don't need to hold this all for yourself. 00:24:53.488 --> 00:25:01.228 You don't need to tell me about it, but at some point you need to know when to escalate this, that this is beyond your ability to be able to help your friend through whatever's going on. 00:25:01.718 --> 00:25:12.758 Because I was really worried that at this point before chat to BT that kids were certainly turning to their peers, that returning to their friends with really sensitive stuff and really important and really sometimes dangerous. 00:25:12.968 --> 00:25:15.308 Stuff and they were not trained counselors. 00:25:15.308 --> 00:25:24.338 At one point I wanted to start a whole program that was like peer-to-peer counseling, tips for kids to know, like how to say things to your friends, how to, you know, put boundaries in place around certain things. 00:25:24.338 --> 00:25:27.828 How to know when to escalate stuff, because I think it's really overwhelming for them. 00:25:28.363 --> 00:25:34.513 To be sometimes in these, uh, friendship groups or in these circles or in these moments with people that they really care about and know what to do. 00:25:34.513 --> 00:25:45.553 And so I think, again, this portal then to be able to go talk to a parent or talk to a teacher or just know that there are adults in your world that you can trust with this information, I think is so important. 00:25:45.553 --> 00:25:54.883 Even if it's said through radically that they know that that's the, the, the way that, that we get, that their world is challenging and that sometimes it's gonna be overwhelming. 00:25:55.594 --> 00:25:56.044 Jen Davidson: Yes. 00:25:56.473 --> 00:25:56.833 nancy giordano: Right. 00:25:56.884 --> 00:26:20.074 Jen Davidson: a with my son when he was in middle school, uh, with bullying and he had been bullied himself and we had gone through all the different tools and, but he witnessed a friend of his, I mean, really egregious comments being made and he made the decision to go to the counselor and tell, and she called me. 00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:27.559 say, I want you to be very clear that if he continues this path, could be retaliation. 00:26:27.739 --> 00:26:30.109 And that that was a very real situation. 00:26:30.109 --> 00:26:32.479 And so I think learned a lot from that. 00:26:32.719 --> 00:26:34.279 We learned a lot from that situation. 00:26:34.309 --> 00:26:40.609 And moving forward, they have to balance the trust of their friends and the trust. 00:26:40.609 --> 00:26:44.929 And he went to this person and his friend was like, don't, don't do it. 00:26:44.929 --> 00:26:46.069 It'll get, it'll get worse. 00:26:46.069 --> 00:26:47.179 And he was so afraid. 00:26:48.049 --> 00:26:54.694 And Luke was like, this has to be said, ultimately said, for your protection, I'm doing this and. 00:26:55.594 --> 00:27:03.124 Uh, he went through with it and it was one of those very, I was a very proud moment, but I mean, truthfully, very scared. 00:27:03.454 --> 00:27:09.174 And he ended up actually leaving that school truth be told, because he just was like, it's not a fit for me. 00:27:09.654 --> 00:27:22.134 And we had just moved into the area and, it was a moment where even the counselor was like, just so we're clear, we know when we break trust or we've got to have that conversation with somebody else to say. 00:27:22.924 --> 00:27:29.524 think that you should tell somebody, somebody higher, and as they get into the teenage years, it's harder and harder. 00:27:29.584 --> 00:27:39.334 I was in a situation where I was at getting into a car with somebody who is drinking and talking to people with me saying, you know, we should call my mom. 00:27:39.334 --> 00:27:40.684 I ha I have this arrangement. 00:27:40.684 --> 00:27:41.734 And they're like, no way. 00:27:42.064 --> 00:27:47.014 We can't do that because your mom could tell our parents and my, and that peer pressure is very real. 00:27:47.314 --> 00:27:48.184 It is very real 00:27:48.198 --> 00:27:48.558 nancy giordano: Right. 00:27:48.604 --> 00:27:50.104 Jen Davidson: strong, and. 00:27:50.414 --> 00:27:52.184 Navigating that is very tricky. 00:27:53.988 --> 00:27:58.008 nancy giordano: Uh, so as we, I'm actually really curious too, between daughter and son. 00:27:58.008 --> 00:28:04.038 So I have, you know, two boys and then a girl, which has made it actually a lot easier to not gender things because my two boys are so different. 00:28:04.218 --> 00:28:06.768 It'd be easy to be like, well, boys are like this and girls are like that. 00:28:06.768 --> 00:28:10.158 But again, my two boys are so different that I think it has much more to do with the child. 00:28:10.588 --> 00:28:13.498 But I'm assuming that, you know, what worked for one didn't work with the other 'cause. 00:28:13.498 --> 00:28:15.418 I think that that's often the case. 00:28:15.769 --> 00:28:16.369 Jen Davidson: No. 00:28:16.369 --> 00:28:16.729 Yeah. 00:28:17.629 --> 00:28:18.439 even close. 00:28:18.469 --> 00:28:19.399 Not even close. 00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:20.689 Very different. 00:28:21.469 --> 00:28:41.599 Regardless of gender girls, they just bring, just being a girl and adolescence is just an entirely different world, and the FOMO and the worry and the being left out and everything that goes along with that is voice is just not that deep. 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:44.269 And I'm generalizing here, but for a lot of times, like. 00:28:44.749 --> 00:28:48.169 You just look and they would, that just would never cross their mind. 00:28:48.169 --> 00:28:55.399 And I think sometimes I wish that girls could have a little bit more of that oversimplification, but no, very different through the way that I had to parent them. 00:28:55.399 --> 00:28:59.149 And, but also bringing them into each other's conversations. 00:28:59.149 --> 00:29:00.199 I used to do that a lot. 00:29:00.349 --> 00:29:03.979 Something would happen with Emma and I would say, just a second, Luke, come on in here. 00:29:04.129 --> 00:29:05.239 I think you need to hear this. 00:29:05.239 --> 00:29:06.769 And he would just be beside himself. 00:29:06.769 --> 00:29:09.859 And I would say, now this has happened to her and. 00:29:10.304 --> 00:29:23.039 Just so you can file that away, because I think all the bits of information that they can learn from each other's lessons and what happens in their lives just adds to that, that file cabinet if something were to happen to them or a friend. 00:29:24.343 --> 00:29:24.913 nancy giordano: Interesting. 00:29:24.913 --> 00:29:26.173 I don't know that I did that as much. 00:29:26.173 --> 00:29:32.383 That's a, you know, so the, the most tricky thing about this podcast is learning things that I wish I'd done differently along the way. 00:29:32.413 --> 00:29:32.983 I'm like, wow. 00:29:33.793 --> 00:29:38.953 I'm like, darn, I wish I had known that neuro hack, or I wish I had thought about that, uh, particular thing. 00:29:38.953 --> 00:29:42.793 And I think, you know, again, as we were talking earlier, I think before we'd gone on camera. 00:29:43.228 --> 00:29:52.748 When I was a young parent, I was in a parenting group and I made time every week to be over with a bunch of other young mothers learning about what it meant to start to raise, you know, infants and toddlers. 00:29:52.748 --> 00:30:03.938 Once you get to a certain age, you don't have that anymore, and if you're fortunate enough to have a neighborhood group or maybe you know, some sort of online group in which you get to exchange some of these things, but I think many, many parents are just trying to get through the day. 00:30:04.308 --> 00:30:14.568 Right And are just trying to get through like so much that's changing in their own world and their own work and their own economy, that to be able to lean into these kinds of conversations with your peers is really tricky to go do. 00:30:14.998 --> 00:30:16.918 And so I think that sometimes we are on this island. 00:30:16.918 --> 00:30:21.898 And so I think the reason again that I wanted to have you here and to talk about this 'cause the conversations are gonna get more intense. 00:30:22.138 --> 00:30:24.218 You and I had, you know, a shared you know. 00:30:24.803 --> 00:30:41.053 Whatever, a conversation online on LinkedIn about a post that was really heartbreaking about a boy who had been shamed online through some sort of sex exploitation thing, and in a very short period of time, within like two and a half hours, he went from having what he thought was a romantic engagement with someone online who was. 00:30:41.328 --> 00:30:48.558 Curious about him and interested in him to being called out to being shamed to then, uh, taking his life at the end, which was just absolutely crush shame. 00:30:48.659 --> 00:30:49.059 Jen Davidson: Devastating. 00:30:49.158 --> 00:30:50.988 nancy giordano: And I see this story happening more and more. 00:30:50.988 --> 00:31:10.318 I hear the story happening with kids who have, you know, extended themselves in some sort of, you know, meme stock play or in some sort of gambling online, uh, experience or, uh, certainly, you know, that are happening across the, the world from all kinds of ways in which we're trying to exploit our children into even Roblox or into, uh, communities that we think are safe. 00:31:10.938 --> 00:31:17.088 And are not, uh, you know, in any way super protected, uh, for, for having our children, uh, be exploited by this. 00:31:17.328 --> 00:31:36.498 So I think that again, how we start having these conversations with our children and letting 'em know that things that they may think that we just do not understand, we can't possibly imagine what's happening in their online world, or that they feel really, really, really stupid that they made themselves so vulnerable to go do, and they don't know where to go turn right. 00:31:36.558 --> 00:31:37.968 So I think that's why this. 00:31:38.028 --> 00:31:45.138 Is critically important now, maybe in a way that was different than we were talking to our kids about condoms or not back in the day. 00:31:45.764 --> 00:31:46.334 Jen Davidson: Right. 00:31:46.394 --> 00:31:46.784 Right. 00:31:46.994 --> 00:31:57.074 And I do, I, I do think that have, we have big pockets of just missing information of what their life is like online. 00:31:58.994 --> 00:32:05.504 we can't necessarily control what they're exposed to, but we can try to control how we react to it. 00:32:05.504 --> 00:32:05.594 And. 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:23.849 Create environments that if were to go sideways, that they would feel comfortable coming to us and, and divulging something whether, you know, it'd be, oh, I got stuck in this gambling situation, or somebody sent me a picture and I sent it to a friend. 00:32:23.849 --> 00:32:26.849 And now by the way, that's distribution of child pornography. 00:32:26.849 --> 00:32:28.049 Like there. 00:32:28.454 --> 00:32:36.584 There are quick minutes where their decision, they're not equipped and they do it and then they just feel sick about it. 00:32:36.584 --> 00:32:41.024 And if they don't feel like they have someone to turn to that's a very scary place to be. 00:32:41.324 --> 00:32:45.374 And I think that's, that's what we saw in that, in that article that was 00:32:45.518 --> 00:32:46.058 nancy giordano: On that post. 00:32:46.058 --> 00:32:46.268 Right. 00:32:46.268 --> 00:33:01.718 But also that, I think recognizing, you know, that having conversations with our children about the fact that you were manipulated by someone, someone did this to you, it's not because you were weak or because you were stupid, or because you, whatever, whatever, like this, someone preyed on you very intentionally. 00:33:01.748 --> 00:33:03.533 Often, maybe sometimes it's, you know, more of. 00:33:03.968 --> 00:33:05.378 One student doing to another. 00:33:05.378 --> 00:33:08.708 But increasingly we're seeing that it's not just students that are doing this to one another, right? 00:33:08.708 --> 00:33:11.528 It is outside entities that are doing it for exploitation reasons. 00:33:11.958 --> 00:33:16.218 And for kids to realize just the same way that we taught them about, like, I taught them about, you know, nutrition. 00:33:16.428 --> 00:33:27.528 I taught them about digital literacy and digital hygiene, and the fact that these bot, you know, whatever algorithms are out to exploit you, trying to get your attention, trying to do whatever, the same thing now that is happening here in this space. 00:33:27.528 --> 00:33:30.738 And so I think that's, and part of the reason I wanted to do this podcast. 00:33:30.953 --> 00:33:40.223 In general is to have parents be aware of all the things that are shifting and changing around this and package in a way that's a little faster to get to than to go and have all the conversations you and I are having with people online. 00:33:40.673 --> 00:33:46.283 Uh, but to recognize how intense this environment is for them, and that again, they're preying on shame. 00:33:46.498 --> 00:33:52.468 That's the, that's the, the thing that makes this whole mechanism work for exploiters and silence, right? 00:33:52.528 --> 00:34:00.928 And so if we can make space, like I even when, you know, and the statistics are grin, you know, one out of, I think four children are gonna experience something pretty horrific in one way or another. 00:34:01.118 --> 00:34:08.468 And so when my daughter went to university, I did sit down and have a conversation with her and say, listen, I, I'm sure this is not gonna happen to you, but the statistics are pretty grand. 00:34:08.618 --> 00:34:15.548 Even if, God forbid you were raped right by someone you knew or something you didn't know, it will not break you. 00:34:16.264 --> 00:34:16.594 Jen Davidson: Right. 00:34:16.663 --> 00:34:18.073 nancy giordano: not something that's gonna take you down. 00:34:18.133 --> 00:34:20.923 This is not something that's gonna be something that you have to live with in the dark. 00:34:20.923 --> 00:34:24.313 This is not something that you can't, you know, we, we will work through this together. 00:34:24.313 --> 00:34:25.243 We will get through this. 00:34:25.243 --> 00:34:30.563 This is something that unfortunately, in our society is happening in a way that we can't control it as much as we should. 00:34:30.843 --> 00:34:32.433 But it maybe it will not take you down, 00:34:33.144 --> 00:34:33.414 Jen Davidson: Right, 00:34:33.573 --> 00:34:40.683 nancy giordano: and I think just by just naming what the worst thing is that could happen, and just like at least saying if that happens, we're, we're in it together. 00:34:40.983 --> 00:34:43.893 It gave her some sense of relief around it. 00:34:43.893 --> 00:34:46.683 Like I wasn't Pollyanna that it couldn't happen, you know? 00:34:46.959 --> 00:34:50.559 Jen Davidson: I mean, 'cause it's, I mean, you hear it, you hear it through friends, you see it online. 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:58.989 And again, I would just, of the things that I did quite frequently and would encourage other parents to do is when you read those articles, sit down and say, did you, did 00:34:59.028 --> 00:34:59.318 nancy giordano: Yeah. 00:34:59.349 --> 00:35:00.009 Jen Davidson: about this? 00:35:00.399 --> 00:35:01.089 Talk about it. 00:35:01.089 --> 00:35:07.629 And then tell them the situation and then ask, stop talking and ask, what would you do in this situation? 00:35:08.109 --> 00:35:08.499 Like. 00:35:09.309 --> 00:35:12.189 Tell me how you would've handled this. 00:35:12.279 --> 00:35:21.819 You know, like just how you feel right now and start those conversations because, and then re reinforcing it by saying, we are always on your side. 00:35:21.849 --> 00:35:23.049 We are always here. 00:35:23.049 --> 00:35:29.079 There is nothing you can do that will ever make me stop loving you and wanting to protect you. 00:35:30.099 --> 00:35:45.669 So just reminding them and having those hypothetical conversations where they can actually stop and try to imagine a scenario, because I do think that helps them step into the situation and really think about it, and maybe the conversation doesn't go that deep then. 00:35:45.944 --> 00:35:52.844 They will think about it and say, look, if you wanna come back and, and you have any more questions, or talk about this again, let's do it because this is really scary. 00:35:52.844 --> 00:35:55.094 And letting our kids know this isn't fear. 00:35:55.094 --> 00:35:56.654 And that's one of the things that I did wrong. 00:35:56.654 --> 00:36:01.484 I was a catastrophizer I mean, my kids joke about it and. 00:36:01.874 --> 00:36:02.894 I don't want it. 00:36:02.894 --> 00:36:18.074 I didn't, I wasn't trying to be a negative scanner, but I grew up in a world where we didn't have all of these risks, and we have so much information and things seem scarier, but maybe they're not, they're equally, and we just didn't read about it because you had to pick up a newspaper. 00:36:18.074 --> 00:36:30.914 And so I, I want them to understand the dangers of the world without putting my fears on them, but also let them know that it scares me and that I'm here if something goes wrong. 00:36:31.344 --> 00:36:31.674 So 00:36:31.853 --> 00:36:32.843 nancy giordano: Yeah, I think that that. 00:36:33.024 --> 00:36:33.294 Jen Davidson: me. 00:36:34.098 --> 00:36:40.398 nancy giordano: You talk about, I think, in the book, and I think that there's a really fine line right, between making them aware of things and not becoming a fearmonger around it. 00:36:40.428 --> 00:36:44.268 And I think that, and, and, but I think again, part of it is being honest about your own fears. 00:36:44.448 --> 00:36:46.548 I'm afraid of this because, right. 00:36:46.608 --> 00:36:48.948 I'm afraid of this because are are you afraid of this? 00:36:49.293 --> 00:36:50.103 For the same reason. 00:36:50.103 --> 00:36:58.953 Like, and, and, and it's interesting to see that they may not be that, you know, their ability to call out even like AI slop so fast compared to what we are able to go see. 00:36:59.223 --> 00:37:07.693 You know, I had actually my, uh, my neighbors over for a holiday toast a couple of nights ago, and one of the, they brought, you know, their young son who I think is like maybe 10. 00:37:08.183 --> 00:37:11.183 And we had like a Christmas scene up on the computer and was like, oh, look at that. 00:37:11.183 --> 00:37:12.413 AI generated blah, blah, like. 00:37:12.668 --> 00:37:13.808 How do you know that's AI generated? 00:37:13.808 --> 00:37:18.878 And it could easily point out to me the seven things that were inconsistent with that photo and knew immediately that that was not real. 00:37:18.878 --> 00:37:20.948 I'm like, oh my God, you're so good at that. 00:37:21.428 --> 00:37:21.878 You know? 00:37:21.878 --> 00:37:27.758 And so I do think sometimes giving them more credit than than we often do about their savviness. 00:37:28.003 --> 00:37:32.263 About their ability to read a space or a room, a community, a and a situation. 00:37:32.573 --> 00:37:37.463 And with they that they know that they've got a, a, a path out of it if it gets crazy. 00:37:37.463 --> 00:37:46.883 But I think even being able to articulate that and have them recognize that they are better prepared, then we may think that they are in a moment like that makes us all feel really, really good. 00:37:46.883 --> 00:37:47.393 Right. 00:37:47.634 --> 00:37:50.604 Jen Davidson: and, and that goes back to just letting our kids fail. 00:37:50.784 --> 00:37:57.309 I mean, this is one of the things that I think talked about a lot sometimes when we have opportunities to step back. 00:37:58.344 --> 00:38:02.244 We can literally watch our kids step up like that. 00:38:02.574 --> 00:38:10.014 That is the tool that is going to carry them through life and we can't constantly sweep in and save them from everything. 00:38:10.014 --> 00:38:12.774 And it's hard to do in the time. 00:38:12.774 --> 00:38:17.034 It's very hard, especially if there's something you can do to intervene to stop the pain. 00:38:17.514 --> 00:38:22.884 It's hard to watch our kids suffer and and have those moments, but it is so crucial. 00:38:23.184 --> 00:38:24.024 And if we can. 00:38:24.314 --> 00:38:27.644 Let them fail in a contained environment early. 00:38:28.064 --> 00:38:31.009 Then that helps build the skillset for when they get older. 00:38:32.378 --> 00:38:33.128 nancy giordano: I think there's two things. 00:38:33.128 --> 00:38:39.518 One, you know, I remember my, one of my old bosses that my children were really young was like little children, little problems, big children, big problems. 00:38:39.518 --> 00:38:46.428 And I like carried that narrative forever and I've worn some other people around it because, yeah, it's easy to say that when they're in third grade, it's a lot harder to do that when they're, you know, as. 00:38:47.043 --> 00:38:51.553 Whatever junior in high school or heading into college, like those become much, much scarier and bigger things. 00:38:51.553 --> 00:38:52.723 And again, I think the stakes are higher. 00:38:52.723 --> 00:39:02.773 There was a kid who, you know, decided to go streak at one of our high school football games when my kids were young and ended up being booked on a sex crime because he happened to flash a 12-year-old, you know, that was sitting on the end zone. 00:39:02.773 --> 00:39:05.473 And so, uh, these are, the risks are different. 00:39:05.563 --> 00:39:11.143 This is the other thing I'm try and teach my children is that, you know, things we got away with back in the day, you don't get, get away with. 00:39:11.143 --> 00:39:13.948 Now people put a lot more scrutiny on things that. 00:39:14.478 --> 00:39:17.058 Footprint's going to stay with you forever, right? 00:39:17.058 --> 00:39:18.918 When you put it online or you say it some way. 00:39:19.248 --> 00:39:21.228 So really trying to teach them a bit how the world works. 00:39:21.228 --> 00:39:24.558 So even in that, there are things they can teach us and I think there are things that we can teach them. 00:39:24.618 --> 00:39:32.418 And this goes back to again, why the conversations are so important and to have them bilaterally, right, to have them in both ways as we move forward. 00:39:32.728 --> 00:39:37.708 So one last conversation I just sort of wanna open up before we finish up, which is conversations about the future. 00:39:38.218 --> 00:39:43.588 You and I have both confided again, offline that we have these sensitive children that are thinking a lot about, uh, you know. 00:39:43.958 --> 00:39:50.858 How the world is unfolding, either from an environmental standpoint or from a political standpoint or technological standpoint, right? 00:39:50.858 --> 00:40:00.858 There are a lot of questions that they carry and often a lot of fears that they carry about what this world is sort of presenting to them right now and what it's gonna look like in the near or far future. 00:40:00.918 --> 00:40:06.318 And I think that's also really, really important conversation to have and to have thoughtfully and 00:40:06.504 --> 00:40:07.014 Jen Davidson: Yes, 00:40:07.818 --> 00:40:08.328 nancy giordano: with them. 00:40:08.979 --> 00:40:25.419 Jen Davidson: And I think in this, the conversation we were speaking about earlier is one of the things that I try to myself because this is still new for me too, is sort of normalizing the unknown without diminishing the emotion they're feeling around it. 00:40:25.869 --> 00:40:26.709 And if. 00:40:27.054 --> 00:40:30.564 You know, it's really easy to say, oh, we don't know. 00:40:30.594 --> 00:40:31.884 'cause we don't, we don't know. 00:40:31.884 --> 00:40:34.014 So we don't even know what to say to them. 00:40:34.344 --> 00:40:41.124 So, and we're having those same fears, but to literally sit in that with them and say this, you're right. 00:40:41.784 --> 00:40:43.164 This is super scary. 00:40:43.164 --> 00:40:45.294 And I, don't know. 00:40:45.504 --> 00:40:49.464 But then reframe to hope, and this is one of those things that, I mean. 00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:52.089 When you've got a kid that's a feeler. 00:40:52.809 --> 00:40:55.749 don't want them to think it's not worth trying. 00:40:56.469 --> 00:40:57.609 You gotta keep trying. 00:40:57.609 --> 00:40:58.749 That's what hope is. 00:40:58.749 --> 00:41:08.769 This is what I tried to explain is yes, it's dark and there are some things that we cannot, I can't touch, we can't affect, what can we do? 00:41:09.524 --> 00:41:10.214 In, in, 00:41:10.283 --> 00:41:10.573 nancy giordano: Okay. 00:41:10.634 --> 00:41:11.354 Jen Davidson: world right now. 00:41:11.354 --> 00:41:27.914 Like, let's focus on that because I think, and it seems overwhelming at times and it seems like we're not gonna make a difference, but if we can just give them a sense of agency to make a decision to move a certain way toward hope, then, then we can try to keep those communication lines open. 00:41:28.184 --> 00:41:28.904 That's what I will 00:41:28.968 --> 00:41:29.838 nancy giordano: Well, yeah. 00:41:30.014 --> 00:41:34.124 Jen Davidson: of these new changes coming, coming toward us at rapid, rapid speed. 00:41:35.028 --> 00:41:35.628 nancy giordano: Rapid change. 00:41:35.628 --> 00:41:48.538 And I think, again, part of my whole, you know, ethos in our family has been change is coming and it's gonna be great because in many ways it obliterates so many of the systems and so many of the constructs that were not very fairly. 00:41:49.098 --> 00:41:50.268 Constructed to begin with, right? 00:41:50.268 --> 00:41:51.318 They came with a lot of bias. 00:41:51.318 --> 00:41:54.258 They came with a lot of, uh, history that was really painful. 00:41:54.258 --> 00:41:55.908 There's a lot of things that we can shift and change. 00:41:55.908 --> 00:41:59.058 I mean, you, this here, even talk about the future of work and jobs. 00:41:59.358 --> 00:42:08.548 I feel pretty strongly that sitting in an office from 7:30 AM to 7:00 PM six, whatever, five days a week, six days a week doing whatever it is you're doing on your computer is not. 00:42:08.603 --> 00:42:11.783 The way that humanity was designed to thrive in the real world. 00:42:11.783 --> 00:42:19.313 So what amazing opportunity if we got a chance to like really shift and change, uh, the future of working and really think about the future of work differently. 00:42:19.313 --> 00:42:23.733 And so I do then pivot to my, you know, again, like I say, my natural. 00:42:24.043 --> 00:42:28.333 Not just optimism or hopeful, but like, no, this is an amazing opportunity. 00:42:28.333 --> 00:42:30.253 Like what would you want that really to look like? 00:42:30.253 --> 00:42:32.323 Like, okay, if this is happening, like what does that mean? 00:42:32.323 --> 00:42:33.313 It's possible to be here. 00:42:33.793 --> 00:42:39.793 That's easier to do with economic stuff with, to some extent political stuff, even though that's really scary. 00:42:40.083 --> 00:42:45.493 Now, particularly if you're a young person looking at what's happening in the us and how we're being perceived around the world, it's, it's crazy. 00:42:45.493 --> 00:42:48.343 And you start to see the uprising actually around the world, like more and more countries. 00:42:48.343 --> 00:42:59.533 What you're seeing is the, you know, the youth quake, uh, uprising in many countries where they feel like it is unfair or the economic opportunity isn't what it was promised, or they feel like the government is corrupt and not taking care of them. 00:42:59.533 --> 00:43:04.573 And so it's an interesting experience and right now to also hold that responsibility. 00:43:04.968 --> 00:43:09.018 That they may increasingly feel to try and change systems that they think are unjust. 00:43:09.478 --> 00:43:12.268 Right, and, and, and where is our responsibility or not in that? 00:43:12.268 --> 00:43:22.528 I mean, again, these are intense and big conversations and as people have heard me say, if they've listened to all of the episodes so far that I didn't always get that right because I jump in and wanna swoop in with. 00:43:22.879 --> 00:43:23.229 Jen Davidson: Right, 00:43:23.353 --> 00:43:28.153 nancy giordano: I wanna open with like possibility and with pathways and with new framing and with new whatever. 00:43:28.243 --> 00:43:31.033 And they just wanted that moment to feel that sense of like, 00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:31.549 Jen Davidson: right, 00:43:31.633 --> 00:43:35.683 nancy giordano: they want me to tune into how scary the feeling really is, 00:43:36.394 --> 00:43:36.694 Jen Davidson: Yep. 00:43:36.793 --> 00:43:37.123 nancy giordano: know? 00:43:37.183 --> 00:43:48.643 And, uh, I think that part of what your book does a lot is, you know, helping kids build that sense of grit and agency and that sense of, of, of trusting oneself throughout their. 00:43:49.053 --> 00:43:53.793 Childhood and into a young, young adulthood that I think that we remind them of in these moments. 00:43:54.323 --> 00:43:56.333 And it still can feel really overwhelming, right? 00:43:56.333 --> 00:44:01.073 Your child is really worried about the environment and I'm really worried that we're going to an authoritarian rule 00:44:01.649 --> 00:44:02.069 Jen Davidson: right. 00:44:02.129 --> 00:44:02.219 I 00:44:02.363 --> 00:44:04.283 nancy giordano: both of them have good evidence. 00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:07.319 Jen Davidson: Yes, yes. 00:44:07.319 --> 00:44:08.669 And all feelings are valid. 00:44:08.699 --> 00:44:12.089 And again, this is just one of those things as as a family unit. 00:44:13.064 --> 00:44:27.824 We, you know, not every family is a safe place to say how you feel or, you know, having those feelings validated and say, we can have differing ideas and we can discuss this and it's scary, but like, what, what can, you know, what do you think about it? 00:44:27.824 --> 00:44:33.244 And start the questions and get, find, find out where they're coming from, what their viewpoints are and. 00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:34.279 And let it go. 00:44:34.279 --> 00:44:40.579 We just had a conversation last night and both my kids are home and it was, I mean, it ran the gamut. 00:44:40.609 --> 00:44:44.989 We talked politics, we talked like history, I mean all of the, all of it. 00:44:44.989 --> 00:44:54.169 And listening to them, my husband and I kind of just looked and just let the kids just watch themselves and learn from each other of their viewpoints because they haven't been in the same house for a long time. 00:44:54.499 --> 00:44:59.929 And what a great gift that was for them to be able to share their views with each other in a safe place. 00:45:00.229 --> 00:45:01.249 And they both learned something. 00:45:01.249 --> 00:45:01.969 I can tell you that. 00:45:03.163 --> 00:45:03.583 nancy giordano: Right. 00:45:03.643 --> 00:45:13.453 And so I think there's a perfect way to round out the conversation now because you end your book by inviting us to not just think about this inside our own little families, but to recognize that we're part of bigger communities, right? 00:45:13.453 --> 00:45:18.313 And to be in conversation with each other as part of why I had my neighbors over the other night. 00:45:18.313 --> 00:45:23.083 And actually I was really proud that my 25-year-old who's been spending a lot of time with this girlfriend who's leaving. 00:45:23.403 --> 00:45:26.103 Country for a, an opportunity for a few months. 00:45:26.153 --> 00:45:29.423 Made the effort to come back and hang with the neighbors, which I was really, really proud of. 00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:29.889 Jen Davidson: great. 00:45:29.889 --> 00:45:30.129 Yeah. 00:45:30.233 --> 00:45:37.763 nancy giordano: because he enjoyed and it felt like it was important to get to know, you know, I mean, we've known our people on our street for a zillion years, but we haven't hung out and we haven't had a toast. 00:45:37.763 --> 00:45:41.783 And one of the neighbors had passed away in the last year and we wanted to honor her 'cause she was a big Christmas person. 00:45:41.783 --> 00:45:44.093 And it was just a, you know, it was just a sense of ritual. 00:45:44.303 --> 00:45:45.593 It was just a sense of connecting. 00:45:45.593 --> 00:45:50.003 It was just a sense of tuning in about what's going on with each other, uh, you know, with everybody. 00:45:50.003 --> 00:45:52.403 And so I think having conversation. 00:45:52.453 --> 00:45:58.153 Period with people broader and outside of our unit is important. 00:45:58.153 --> 00:46:00.523 And the more diverse those conversations can be, certainly the better. 00:46:00.673 --> 00:46:04.453 For the same reasons that, you know, your son and daughter learned something from each other yesterday. 00:46:04.813 --> 00:46:08.263 But what are you doing now that your children are grown and where are you? 00:46:08.383 --> 00:46:10.333 Who are you sharing all this wisdom with these days? 00:46:10.393 --> 00:46:10.783 Missy. 00:46:11.019 --> 00:46:11.559 Jen Davidson: I know. 00:46:11.769 --> 00:46:23.559 So, I mean, in a perfect world, you know, you, when you write a book, you have to come up with your why and they, they drill this into you and I. I have thought the writing the book is just the book. 00:46:23.619 --> 00:46:28.509 I mean, I hope it helps as many people as possible start the conversation and feel empowered to do so. 00:46:28.989 --> 00:46:32.529 But the piece that I miss so much is getting in the community. 00:46:32.589 --> 00:46:35.859 I mean, you talk about you had a moms group I did too, but. 00:46:37.049 --> 00:46:41.579 through basically like three months of age and people go their separate ways. 00:46:41.579 --> 00:47:02.489 The connection, it takes a village like, I wanna get out in communities, let's get together a group of people, start a conversation about the book, and then let them continue on in that community and, and build little pockets for people because the isolation is intense right now and everybody's online and you can be part of a Facebook group or all of these different things. 00:47:02.929 --> 00:47:04.094 But you're still, you. 00:47:04.099 --> 00:47:11.329 You turn that off and you feel alone, or you see what everybody else is doing and you feel alone and people need to touch grass. 00:47:11.389 --> 00:47:17.059 Let's get outside and let's, let's build our communities where we can real people, communities. 00:47:17.179 --> 00:47:23.809 Because soon enough we're gonna be sharing the space with, like you say, who knows, humanoids or people be roaming around. 00:47:24.619 --> 00:47:30.559 I couldn't even venture a guess how soon that's coming, but we need to, we need to connect now more than ever. 00:47:31.779 --> 00:47:32.019 That 00:47:32.058 --> 00:47:32.598 nancy giordano: Yeah. 00:47:32.598 --> 00:47:39.078 And I think making that a, a priority, like really making that a priority, I think that all of us have the ability to go do that, but we don't prioritize it. 00:47:39.078 --> 00:47:51.638 And I think that making that really intentional effort to go do that is a really, really key inoculation to so much of this other stuff that we're feeling and helps our children recognize how important that is too in their own lives to prioritize that. 00:47:51.758 --> 00:47:54.778 And I think, again, I will gender it a bit and say for boys as. 00:47:55.533 --> 00:47:58.563 Even more so than girls, because I think for girls sometimes it's a natural inclination. 00:47:58.953 --> 00:48:00.393 Uh, one of my boys is super social. 00:48:00.393 --> 00:48:01.233 The other one a little less so. 00:48:01.233 --> 00:48:05.193 But I see with my partner, like he has not prioritized that in his own life, right? 00:48:05.193 --> 00:48:10.593 And now you see him as a man without a bunch of friends and a bunch of people to talk about these various life stages with. 00:48:10.593 --> 00:48:17.043 And uh, I think we all need each other in pretty significant ways and need to have space to be able to have the vulnerable. 00:48:17.098 --> 00:48:20.308 Sometimes scary, sometimes also phenomenal conversations. 00:48:20.308 --> 00:48:24.868 I'm just gonna back up and also say, you know, he grew up in a household where he couldn't brag about the really great things that happened. 00:48:24.868 --> 00:48:28.828 'cause there there are all a lot of insecurities that existed inside a system. 00:48:28.918 --> 00:48:31.498 And so he just diminished his life the whole time. 00:48:31.498 --> 00:48:39.858 And I also wanted to be a, you know, a place where you can play as big and shine as bright as you want to in this space, and people are cheering you on when you are. 00:48:39.978 --> 00:48:42.768 I think that's a really, really key part of this whole thing. 00:48:42.954 --> 00:48:43.314 Jen Davidson: Really 00:48:43.458 --> 00:48:43.818 nancy giordano: So. 00:48:43.824 --> 00:48:44.844 Jen Davidson: People need people. 00:48:44.994 --> 00:48:47.549 We've, we cannot lose sight of that and. 00:48:48.178 --> 00:48:54.448 People, the more people we have in our lives to support us to, to lift us up and to be there when things get tough. 00:48:54.658 --> 00:48:58.798 That's gonna be very, very crucial going forward Now. 00:48:58.858 --> 00:48:59.098 It's 00:48:59.347 --> 00:49:00.997 nancy giordano: Uh, right, right now. 00:49:00.997 --> 00:49:01.507 Exactly. 00:49:01.507 --> 00:49:02.017 Exactly. 00:49:02.017 --> 00:49:10.087 And I think again, the more that you can, you can bloom that so that then it becomes more and more, uh, accessible to you as things get a little rockier, because I will say it's gonna get rockier, 00:49:10.293 --> 00:49:10.583 Jen Davidson: Yeah. 00:49:10.777 --> 00:49:13.417 nancy giordano: get more disruptive, more stuff is gonna fall apart. 00:49:13.667 --> 00:49:19.067 We can, you know, start to build more res, I know resilience is even the right word, but preparation for that in many different ways. 00:49:19.067 --> 00:49:22.067 And I think that your book is a big part of helping us do that. 00:49:22.067 --> 00:49:31.217 So thank you so much, Jen, for the time and love that you've poured into both the book and your family and now, uh, all of our families as we, uh, navigate this together. 00:49:31.367 --> 00:49:32.207 Thank you so much. 00:49:32.468 --> 00:49:32.708 Jen Davidson: you. 00:49:32.738 --> 00:49:33.728 Thank you so much. 00:49:34.457 --> 00:49:37.817 nancy giordano: Wishing you so much good luck with all of it and more and more conversations to come. 00:49:38.858 --> 00:49:39.278 Jen Davidson: Yes. 00:49:39.578 --> 00:49:41.468 Keep the conversation going and keep talking.