Yeah, I talked to the CTO of a big biopharm.
It's about 24,000 employees, and he said copilot.
No, just they're used, I mean, they're all in, in 365.
SharePoint.
Of course email the whole shebang.
And, uh, he said, oh, 65, uh, copilot just a hard no.
What, what are his end users going to do with it?
And Microsoft isn't discounted like it, it is.
A full whatever it was, 35, 25 bucks per user, per month times 24,000 users.
And I think I, uh, one of my more popular AI posts on LinkedIn
was sharing how my son got thrust or pulling him copilot.
And he said he rather just got the $25 a
month directly from his company as a stipend.
He, he just, it's, it's a tool he does not use.
Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud.
I'm Cory Quinn.
It's been a month of Sunday since I had him on the show,
but Keith Townsend, founder at the CTO Advisor is back.
Keith, how have you been?
Been good.
I've been doing good.
Corey, having screamed in the clouds in a long time, so I'll, I'll, I'll do the.
I like that Crying Out.
Cloud is one of the few cloud security
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Smart Conversations, great guests, and Zero Fluff.
If you haven't heard of it, it's a cloud and
AI security podcast from Wiz Run by Clouds.
Sec Pros, four Clouds SEC Pros.
I was actually one of the first guests on the
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Make sure to check them out at wiz.io/crying-out-cloud.
So since we've spoken, you got acquired by the
Futurum Group and then have left the Futurum group.
It, it's almost like, uh, the acquisition door
is one of those things to which you're a cat.
Like I'm gonna always be perpetually on the wrong side of it.
What are you out in these days?
What's, what's exciting?
What's fun?
What are you seeing?
The exciting thing is, uh, beyond ai.
Is that the enterprise has kind of grown up,
and I think we'll talk about this a little bit.
They've realized that they're not going to convert.
To any one platform and they just have to deal with
the complexity, at least most enterprise itself.
And that is, you know, kind of the, the, the
people who have followed me know the brand.
That's what I deal with.
The mucky middle, not necessarily the sexy technologies.
The, the, the grinding through and just figuring out the
old and crusty, which is interfacing with the new is sexy.
I stand corrected on a position I took a long time ago
that, uh, multi-cloud was sort of a worst practice.
It, it may be, but it's what everyone's doing.
Uh, even anything beyond the trivial scale, it's, and I've
seen companies fighting this since I came up from tech.
When I got my first CCNA cert from Cisco back in the
day, the entire certification assumed it was a giant
Cisco universe that never had to interoperate with.
Anything else.
AWS was the same way for a long time, but they just got beaten up in
the this year's Gartner report for not playing well with multi-cloud.
So I'm sure they're going to finally pay attention to it because
if you want AWS to care about something, make Gartner talk
about it, and suddenly you can see their roadmap a common it's.
Every company of scale uses a little bit of everything.
There's definitely going to be strong, uh, biases and significant outliers.
They're not gonna look at the three hyperscalers
and split their workloads into thirds.
There's gonna be something that is inherently dominant there, but every
company needs to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time in this era.
Yeah, we talked about it many moons ago.
It was, you need to be an expert in something.
And then you need to be fairly decent in everything else.
And I think early cloud, that was really tough to be
an expert in one thing and decent in other things.
Now it's just, it's table stakes and we
can do it a little bit rather now with ai.
But it, it is table stakes.
It, it has gotten easier, I will say, in that it's possible now for a single
person to wrap their head around a lot of different things, just because
you don't need to be a deep wizard just to use the platforms anymore.
Yeah, I've, I've been waist deep in GCP the past
48 hours, and, uh, it's a horrid experience.
Like, not that it's a bad platform, I'm just more familiar with AWS and
even working with ai, I am more familiar with calling open ai, uh, APIs.
Uh, I've gone super fast with Curs and it's allowed me to do like.
All the Google command line tools, I'm not even
paying any attention to any of the GCloud, whatever.
Cursor takes care of it for me, and I'm just orchestrating what I know
to be when it gets in this troubleshooting loop, I know it's time for
me to step in and offer some wisdom, and it, it is an amazing word.
It allows me to build apps that I, that I've,
quite frankly, I'm not qualified to build.
And if, uh, if you're depending on one of these
apps for production, you should probably be fired.
Oh, absolutely.
People love to talk smack about the AI code that it spits out, but it's also,
look, I'm also not spending three hours anymore trying to figure out the right
parameters to an undocumented library 'cause someone couldn't be bothered to
give an example of how to use the thing, like I just breeze past that stuff.
Now I have other problems, but I, I'm not a front end guy.
However, I can build something now and then have AI slap a front end.
In front of it that actually looks halfway
decent and it, it, it's been a big unlock for me.
I have a whole bunch of silly utilities I
use just as a part of my daily workflow.
I was using retool for years to write my newsletter, and now I have something
that's custom featured on the same API just, it works on my phone now.
I don't need to wait till I'm at a desktop to write the thing.
I, I have a thing that fools, I, I, I built
basically a, a AI powered, uh, RSS reader.
So, you know, being building the Rss s reader is super,
relatively trivial, but building one that runs the.
The feeds through open ai that that then, you know,
filters what I should be paying attention to and gives
me summaries and AI generated summaries and all of that.
That was a pretty trivial tool of the building
that's been super helpful in my workflow.
Yeah, I should really look into doing something like that.
I have about a hundred and change RSS feeds
these days that I wind up just consuming.
And a lot of 'em don't publish often, but I still wind up getting
a few hundred items a day, and I just have it hanging out in
the corner, and I just glance at it periodically here and there.
I'm running fresh RSS and like.
Kubernetes test cluster at home, and it just sits there aggregating all
the stuff I care about, but 90 to 95% of it can just, okay, good to know.
I don't need to read this, especially in the era of AI
generated slop, but the things that are good are really good.
So having something that would act as a filter on that is not a terrible idea.
Well, that that's the other thing that's I've
found to be incredibly enabling, not just about.
AI on the development side, I've developed AI processes, like
I've tuned Chat GTP, and Gemini to the nth degree, and I can
churn out a really high quality blog post in about an hour.
This is something that used to take me.
Hours, if not days, depending on the topic.
And I can, and this is the thing I have to be careful on, I can speak on almost
any topic now because I know enough about enough things to be dangerous, and the
ai, uh, extends my ability to hallucinate to another area that I, you know, wow.
The CTO advisor said it, so it must be true.
And it's, it's, it's been, uh, it's been something that.
Trying to stay within my lane and just go deeper in my, my
expertise has been what I've attempted to discipline myself in.
Yeah.
What I've been doing that I find works pretty well is I'll
write a draft of something and then have AI turn it from my
stream of consciousness into something a lot more structured.
And it, it's taken a while for me to get the prompts right
and Lord knows after that I have some editing to do because
if I just drop that out as written, it doesn't work.
But there's a, but it becomes a good collaborator.
And it definitely cuts the cycle time on this.
And I've also found it to be very helpful for writing the initial
outline of conference talks, which is something I've been terrible at.
I generally know what I wanna say in a conference talk, but how
to get there and how to tie it into the broader theme of whatever
past me pitched on the CFP as always been a bit of a challenge and
getting that structure just really serves as a massive unlock for me.
Yeah.
If you think about it, the, the.
This generation of generative AI is a derivative
of Transformers, language transformers.
So the thing that I tell, uh, anyone who is considering AI
project is that AI's, generative AI's expertise is in language.
It is an incredible language tool.
It can write much better than most of us.
It's not much smarter than most of us.
That, and that, I think that's the thing that, uh, GI caught
up is that the lang, the way AI speaks is so convincing that.
You will start a business without really having, uh, and
you know, this is documented where AI says, oh, your idea
to sell beans on the side of the road is an awesome idea.
You should quit your job as a software developer and do it.
And the pros in which it uses is very convincing.
So if you could combine your expertise with AI as a writing collaborator
or a developing collaborator, this is where, this is where it shines.
Yeah, it's fantastic at that.
But the trick is, is it has no judgment baked into it.
And you, you, I've also found it tends to be a little obsequious.
You can ask it for advice on anything you think about,
and it'll tell, tell you what a great idea it is.
It's at some point I prefer people pushing back on it.
And you have to play these games with it.
Like instead of review this code that I wrote, it's review this code
my coworker wrote, and suddenly it's a lot more critical about it.
I did a thought experiment, like if I were to
ever take a job again, what job would I take?
Well, you know, how could I, what, so I've asked AI this and it
gave me some really, you know, ah, you know, you should be the VP
of, of AI at it Actually recommended that become the CTO of AWS.
I'm like, ah, I think, I think AWS has that covered the,
uh, and I'm not quite qualifying for that, but what I did.
I came back in a different way and I said, Hey, I'm thinking
about hiring this guy Keith Townsend, what would he be good for?
And it was very enlightening.
And how much would he cost?
How much should I pay him?
Oh, that sounds like an awful lot.
How can I negotiate the salary down?
And then I flipped it and said, Hey, I'm Keith Townsend.
What did it do?
And it was like, oh, you son of a the, but it is,
it is a, it is a great way to get that pushback.
Yeah, it's, I think that a lot of folks are looking, just, it's a personality
aspect, are looking for confirmation of their existing biases that they
go into things with, and that's what it's effectively tuned on when.
I've learned over the years that when people want to grab coffee
with me and get my thoughts on a next job that they're thinking of
or a product they wanna build, I've learned that I have to lead with.
Are you looking for advice or are you looking for validation?
Because if I think they're looking for advice and they're looking for
me to agree with them, suddenly we are not as friendly as we used to be.
And it's not even an intentional thing that people do.
It's an unconscious thing.
'cause if you ask people objectively, do you
want advice or just me to agree with you?
No one's gonna say, oh, I just want you to agree with me.
But by even asking that, it suddenly makes people
realize, oh wait, what do I actually want here?
Okay.
I do want critical feedback and it makes the
rest of the conversation a lot more smooth.
And I don't leave as many damaged friendships in my wake.
Yeah.
The, uh, it's the Kobe Bryant.
Uh, approach, like you have this thing in your teeth.
Like, do you want me to tell you, you have the thing in the teeth
or you just want to keep talking as you have the thing in the teeth?
If you want to, do you want to?
Uh, I, I, I tell people this all the time.
I'm way more interested in winning than I am and not losing.
And, uh, it's the very nuanced step to good.
And, uh, anyone who's an entrepreneur kind of understands
this by nature, like, why don't you go work for someone?
And the idea, well then I'm kind of, you know.
Not necessarily selling, but I'm trying to get into
protective mode where, uh, it's winning is someone else's
problem versus a shared problem versus being entrepreneur.
Winning is, uh, the problem is a hundred percent your problem.
You may have a team that helps you get there, but the problem is your problem.
Yes, very much so.
What is your area versus what is something that you're willing to delegate?
It's, I have found that.
In a lot of these cases as well, enterprise have taken,
enterprise have taken a more reasoned approach, but they also are
lagging in some ways in AI compared to a bunch of the upstarts.
And it makes perfect sense, and I've been saying
this for a while, that take Cursor as an example.
AWS has a couple of options there now where they have their Q
developer and they have their kiro thing that apparently they
can't price well according to a bunch of articles this week, but.
If Cursor does something absurd and starts saying problematic things after
a release, it becomes a bit of a he, he, you know, the how AI works and
they wind up fixing it and if anything, it becomes a PR boost for them.
'cause people have heard about them as it makes the news cycle.
But these big companies, if their products start doing this, they
take reputational damage and they view this as an existential threat.
So they're first and foremost looking at this through the lens of guardrails.
How do we make sure it never goes off script?
And that's not really where innovation tends to come from.
Yeah, I, I, the, I published from the chat GPT store.
I published this, uh, rag I had created, I had
taken all of my blog posts over the past 10 years.
Formatted into A-J-J-S-O-N-L file.
Uh, did a bunch of schema work.
Like I've spent a lot of time mass collecting
and massaging the data, categorizing the data.
I fed it to, uh, custom GPT.
It should have been very simple.
Basically ask virtual Keith a question worked in the builder.
Published it.
Someone said, Hey, wouldn't you be embarrassed if it said something that
you, that puts you in a position that, uh, quite frankly is embarrassing?
I'm like, no, not really.
I'm just, you know, it's just chief.
Like, if you took this free advice from this free tool
and it told you to do something bad and you did it
anyway, man, well, you know, you're not really a grownup.
I, I'd be, I'd be absolutely embarrassed if I were passing
it off as me and not disclosing that it was AI powered.
There's a universe of difference there.
There's a universe of a difference.
So two points.
One, it did do exactly that.
It said embarrassing stuff.
And then two, I learned how exactly, how fragile it was.
Like it, here's the corpus of data only, uh, perform prompts.
Responses off of this corpus and nothing else.
The links, the URLs are in the in in js, ON, and it
would just generate quote after quote after quote.
That was nothing that looked, nothing like what I would say.
Nothing I've said, and it would still hallucinate.
Uh, references, even though the references were there.
So that is modern day ai, at least AI big that enterprises are trying to avoid.
So if you're a Fortune 500 shop and this is what you have to
work with and you're told, don't do anything embarrassing.
Yeah.
Would you give an intern with very little judgment access
to speak on your behalf without someone editing it?
Probably not.
I mean, this is some, this ties back to something I've been saying for a very
long time, and it seems that corporate comms departments haven't gotten it.
You can outsource the work, but you cannot outsource the responsibility.
There's a. Well, one of our contractors got breached.
Like, wow.
Sure.
Do wonder what company hired those contractors who got breached?
It's terrific.
I trusted you with the information.
You are the one that did a bad job of vendor selection and they got popped.
Yeah.
That, that sounds like an internal problem for me, for, uh, from my
perspective, but you seem to think it's this get outta jail free pass.
It's not,
yeah, I, I, I remember the, uh, early days of, uh, e-commerce.
I'm that old.
That, uh, I ordered something online, it didn't come, and I
called the vendor, I don't even remember who it was, and they
said, oh, well we gave it to UPS and they didn't deliver it.
And I said, well, how is that my prop?
Did you not?
Did I hire UPS?
Did I select UPS?
It's your vendor.
It's you.
And I think, uh, in this world of abstraction, on top of abstraction,
on top of abstraction, from a architecture perspective, we're
getting that like US architects, we're starting to, not just
starting, we realize that we're responsible for the system.
Throughout the whole lifecycle of the system, whether or not we're
outsourcing infrastructure to AWS, whether or not we're abstracting
data and data management to Google with Big Query or whatever
the platform, ultimately we're responsible for the outputs of
the system, and AI has just immensely complicated that problem.
Yes, massively.
It's.
It's hard to say what the future's gonna hold around this, but.
I, I do think that some things are going to be more or less permanent, where
enterprises are still going to feel the need to keep up with the Joneses.
I think everyone has still lost their minds and has stuffed the AI hype into
every product left and right, to the point where I'm scared to update apps now,
just on the basis of what are they going to shove down my throat, I mean, zoom.
Great example of this.
I can't join a meeting anymore on Zoom without it popping up, talking
about Zoom docs and its email collaboration suite, and its chat.
As a consultant, I get to talk to an awful lot of companies out there,
and I have yet to discover a single company using it for those things.
Who's buying this?
And I'm starting to have the creeping sensation that maybe it's nobody.
Well, the, uh, you know, the, the big slow companies are my, are my jam.
There's, this is where I operate in, and it used to
be just, it was it that would hold back a company.
But customer after customer I've talked to, it is not just it anymore.
Like when it comes to ai, the folks who
bought cloud before it would bless cloud.
Ai.
They don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole until it's blessed by it.
They don't want to be the next person in.
The NE news, uh, is, is I find it strange whether it's.
Business U users not really understanding AI or business users understanding
AI enough to know that it's too dangerous for even them to use at this point.
So it is, it is it, it has been a interesting journey.
I'm, I'm surprised at how resistant to adoption, even
when they find AI tools being forced upon them in
Salesforce or SAP or something, they don't use these tools.
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You ask a bunch of people they want to be when they grow up.
No one's gonna say a cautionary tale.
I I think that it's pretty clear that a lot of this value is
not there in that these companies have to mandate the use of it.
It's a push, not a pull.
I, I think that.
There's a lot of value in AI that is going to be realized
on a personal level, maybe not the enterprise level.
I was talking with Ed Zitron on this show a couple months back, and part of
his opinion on this, and I think he's onto something, is there is value there,
but what if that value is like a $50 billion a year of market that doesn't
justify all of the investment and hype and nonsense that's gone into this.
So we're we're headed for a reckoning.
Yeah, I talked to the CTO of a big biopharm.
It's about 24,000 employees and he said Microsoft oh 365.
The a, uh, copilot?
No, just they're used.
I mean, they're all in, in 365.
SharePoint.
Of course, email the whole shebang.
And, uh, he said, oh, 65, uh, co-pilot, just a hard no.
What, what are his end users going to do with it?
And Microsoft isn't discounted like it, it is.
A full whatever it was, 35, 25 bucks per user, per month times 24,000 users.
And I think I, uh, one of my more popular AI posts on LinkedIn
was sharing how my son got thrust or pulling him copilot.
And he said he rather just, just got the $25 a
month directly from his company as a stipend.
He, he just, it's, it's a tool he does not use.
What I also find weird is that all of these
tools are converging on the same things.
It's how, how many chat bots do I really need
to interface with in the course of a day?
And it really bugs me when it starts insisting upon itself.
Where if I open a Google Doc, 'cause that's what we use for some of
our collaboration internally, and it's like, Hey, write with Gemini.
It, it feels like the in intrinsic message that
it's saying is that you can't write this yourself.
So much of the marketing that I'm seeing implies that
the user is lazy, unethical, or a combination of the two.
And that does not sit well.
It's you're bad at your job.
Let the computer do it has never been compelling to me.
You know, Microsoft was disappointed that people weren't
using LinkedIn's AI writing, and I've tried it a few times.
It's really bad.
Well, no, it's not that it's, it's not just that it's bad.
It's bad because it's not interactive.
The, it'll suggest a post.
And if you've used AI to write, this is not how
you use AI to write, you use your, it's iterative.
You're like, oh, uh, I don't like this.
Uh, you're missing a theme.
You've taken out my voice, or whatever you're trying to get it to, uh, get to.
It can help me in my social posts.
Matter of fact, I use chat GTP for a good majority of my social posts,
not because it's integrated into the platform, but because it has
learned my voice and I can push back and I can, I can critique it
and I can say, ah, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
I'm just gonna copy and paste what I originally started with.
Or it can help me tease out ideas.
That's not what the LinkedIn experience is,
that's not what the experience is in SAP.
That's not what the experience is in Salesforce.
It is not iterative, it is not collaborative.
It is kind of like, oh, you're, you don't know your job as a
logistics professional, let me tell you how to do your job.
Right.
And that is wildly frustrating to me.
I, I will use it for social posts, but it's in
the context of here's a thing that I wanna write.
Make this punchier, make it fit, wordsmith this.
I have 300 characters.
This is 320.
Get it.
Uh, come up with some turns of phrase.
And I've also found it's terrific if you not, if you'd
ask it to re, to do that, but give me 10 options and then
you can pick phrases from the various ways it frames it.
And that works super well.
But it's iterative, it's collaborative.
It is not something that I can automate.
Uh, yeah, just watch this RSS feed and comment on stuff that's germane.
While I sail around the world without a,
without a computer for the next two years,
I have some 82,000 uh, tweets.
I pulled them, I normalized the data, I fed it back into chat,
GTP, that so that it, it can capture my voice and I was still never
trust it to automate and put out tweets in, in my voice because it.
I will make myself, not just unhirable, but unen,
engageable, if it would be bad results would incur.
Yeah.
Oh, it knows who I am.
And when I ask it to comment on various bits
of AWS news, it doesn't get it right at all.
Oh, it knows who it, it, it absolutely knows who you are because
when I say, Hey, how does this compare to my contemporaries?
They'll say, oh, well, Corey Quinn would
be a little bit more snarkier than that.
I'm like, ah.
Yes, that that applies to any sentence almost
ever uttered in a professional contact.
Yes, that is.
That is my shtick.
I am aware of this, but it also doesn't seem
to understand there's a time and a place.
No, it does not.
It also, I, I keep running into guardrails as well, where like, anytime,
like, so, like the most recent scandals, for example with, uh, meta,
uh, they're saying it's okay to be romantic or sensual with teenagers.
Like, great, terrific.
That is, it's, it's been blowing up in a couple of corners of the internet in
the last few days and none of the AI things will touch it understandably so,
because it views, oh, there's, there's some stuff we don't make jokes about.
Yes, I get that.
I am not asking you to make those jokes.
I'm asking you to basically skewer meta for its complete lack of ethics.
There's a difference here, but the guardrails keep, uh, keep cropping up.
And I get why companies have them in there.
I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't.
I wish it weren't as easy to get around it sometimes.
Yeah.
The, it's, it's, it's to the point where, um, I am way more interested.
Private AI that I have been in the past, like I am very much a platform
first for most modern technologies, if there's a cloud service for it,
unless it's just a always on service where there's no economic value in it.
Architecturally, I'm like, you know, let it be somebody else's problem.
I, I don't want to manage AI drivers not.
No desire to do it whatsoever until I run into
these, uh, I was telling my wife about my check.
My custom GPT problem and how I'm forced to have to build a
more elegant solution for a platform that can handle millions
of users A minute I have to build a custom application for.
A half a dozen users in a week, but I want this tailored experience
that when someone comes to, you know, critique or, uh, either
critique my content or critique someone else's content, or ask kind
of what would Keith think conceptually before I even engaged him.
I want it to be a reliable service.
I want it to be a experience that will meet
the criteria fi finish of the CT advisor.
And that requires this, you know, this, this stitching together of this
low level AI so that you know, so that the experience, the desire UI, is.
Is achieved.
And I think this is the problem that a lot
of enterprises are looking running into.
They're looking at these big AI platforms.
It's not meeting their immediate business needs.
They could probably get away with a 7 billion parameter model,
but they just need the expertise to either run it in the
public cloud, which all the cloud providers are getting there.
They're, they're providing the tools or they need to,
uh, they need to hand stitch this stuff themselves.
I, I'm interested in the local inference piece just
because I want it to still be usable once the good times
dry up and they stop throwing money into these things.
Uh, because again, some of these AI tools are great
for 20, 30 bucks a month, but not two or 3000.
So I, I want a good enough version that I can run on my own hardware
because I, now that I've had the benefit of having AI write the front
end code, I don't know how to write, for example, I don't wanna go back,
right.
Yeah, I don't, I could, I'm watching it like in the background now.
Uh, cursor's, troubleshooting the app that I'm building.
I the, you know, it will tell you, oh, now go and try it.
Like, wait, wait a minute, minute.
I'm, I'm the grown up here.
I'm in charge.
You try it.
The, uh, why You just write a write a test script and
keep working through the problem until you've solved it.
I don't wanna be engaged in your troubleshooting.
I don't wanna go back to the days where I have to troubleshoot.
I don't wanna have to use my connect to call
someone at Google Cloud to get support for free.
I just want AI to do that for me.
Yeah, I, I want it to have some boundaries.
Like I could never let it run loose on my laptop.
I give it its own VM somewhere to run in
because, you know, there, there's client data.
I don't wanna smack it into, but there's a,
but aside from that, just go iterate on this.
Have fun.
And if it doesn't work, oh well, but I don't wanna
come back to a $10,000 monthly inference bill either.
Well, this has been one of my fears with the AI services, uh, that somehow
that I put a AI chat bot or something out there and someone figures out
how to jailbreak it, and now they're just running their app through my.
Through my high quality, you know, before where I would've used, uh, before
where someone would've used flashlight or some, uh, for many type of of model,
they now have access to my Gemini Pro or my five Pro, and they run ragged in it.
And I get some $10,000 bill because of my poor security, because I've used a.
AI to develop.
So what I've been learning is how to do be a better software
manager, a better product manager, as I've been building
with AI assistance since it's been an a fascinating journey.
Oh, absolutely.
And I think that it's helpful to, to keep some form of, I guess, uh.
Uh, distance in there.
Like right now with inference being as easy to find as it is, most
places, I feel like a lot of folks have not started really looking for
how to get free inference, uh, the scammers and whatnot, but it'll come.
It always does.
And, and I'm the same way.
Whenever I build something, I'm using the best top of line
model because I'm not scaling this out to millions of users.
I wanna make sure it works.
I don't want to do it for the least amount of money possible because
we're talking, well, I could do this for 15 cents a month instead of 70.
And.
I don't care about less than the cost of
a candy bar when it comes to these things.
I want it to work, and I want it to work well.
Yeah, I think that, you know, we, we started down into kinda like the
economic return of AI for entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, and small companies.
There's been no doubt that.
So right now it's just me and my wife still, but we both are avid
users of AI and we just haven't found the need to hire yet because
when you're dealing with an area that you have expertise in.
You're, uh, dealing with ai, you 10 x yourself, and this is one
of the things that I've talked to other really smart people about
and that haven't really figured out, is how do you codify that?
Like how do you, the way that Corey is using ai, how
do I scale that to a hundred people in my organization?
And that is.
That has been the tricky part, right?
Is you, you're able to do it because you have x
number of years of systems, architecture experience.
You understand systems.
AI is just, oh, you, oh, I get this.
This is like having a bunch of junior developers that
have, you know, really, really massive amounts of, of.
Photographic memory and I can put them to work.
I have to put guard rails around them, but I can build these incredible systems.
Yeah.
Intelligence, stat of 18, wisdom stat of three.
The, you know, you, you've done it with your career with
AWS, you understand that, you know what, yeah, sure.
One EC2 instances, and it's reliable as one VM
in the data center, but three EC2 instances is.
Yeah, I, I will say my use of AI is a whole bunch of onesie, twosies.
I don't have any sustained processes that use it the same way every time.
So I look at this and effectively say, oh,
what, what job could I replace with this?
It's, these aren't things I would hire people to do.
I'm not gonna hire an artist, for example, to come up with a
picture of a giraffe and a data center aisle, uh, for a dumb
post on social media that gets three likes and one retweet.
'cause no one else has the same sense of humor that I do.
Uh, but I absolutely will make a robot do it.
Yeah, I'm, I'm in the same space.
I think
the stuff that AI is really not good at is, like, if I needed to
do a deck and I wanted that deck to look really good, I'm, I'm,
I'm giving, you know, someone's paying me to deliver their keynote.
I'm not gonna run it through ai.
I'll, I'll get the outline from ai 'cause AI is good at
language, but I'm gonna just send the, I'm going to send
the deck off to a deck deck jockey to make it look good.
The, uh, so, but it does enable me to do stuff,
to your point that I would not have done.
So I'm doing this, uh, daily series, the, uh, which is actually what
sparked this, which is the cloud every day, whereas I'm looking at a, at.
Platform engineering from a different angle, slightly different angle every day.
I just, I asked AI for the, for a 10 day, uh, editorial calendar.
And then, you know, I can now go through and say, Hey, gimme a rough draft,
work with it for about 30 minutes a day, and I can churn out quality posts.
I don't have to hire a ghost writer to do that now.
Yeah.
And you're not having, and you're not sitting
there just copy and pasting it either,
you know, a hundred so people see it a day.
Not worth, not worth paying somebody else
to do, but worth 15 minutes of my time.
Exactly.
'cause you never know what's gonna hit.
And I, the idea of just doing a copy paste from
AI and calling it a day is horrifying to me.
But yeah, collaborating, helping it do a yes.
And for me, the hardest thing that I have to overcome is the empty
text editor in front of me when it's time to write something.
So.
Have it do a draft of something and even if, especially if it's wrong,
but now, 'cause now I can correct the robot and I can mansplain to it or
human mansplain to it, and suddenly I have a much stronger post for it.
Yeah.
And the great thing is even if you're not comfortable
with that, you can just say, Hey, gimme an outline.
The, when I did the a hundred days of ai, I said, you
know what, give me a, give me a hundred days of AI of
topics to cover every day for the next a hundred days.
And I look up like, oh, here's today's topic.
Ah, I don't like that.
Now to another topic and then.
Inevitably, three days later, that topic comes up and I have to figure
out a new topic, but I digress that, that it is, I, I'm a fan with limits.
Yeah.
To bring this black full circle though, these are personal
productivity accelerants for which AI is becoming invaluable.
These are not enterprise stories.
I still struggle to see the massive, wide scale enterprise upside,
where we're gonna basically be able to make every one of our
employees way more productive and replace entire teams with agents.
I, I think that they're wish casting.
Yeah, I that I've seen some really great examples of AI
doing jobs no one else would've done or didn't want to do.
Will, you know, I'm, I keep seeing, you know what?
Dell Technologies hiring is laying off due to ai.
Dell Technologies is not hiring, laying off doing ai.
Dell technology is laying off 'cause they overhired during COVID COVID
and they're trying to get back to a number that meets, that keeps
Michael Dell, you know, happy that, that, that has nothing to do with ai.
They need an AI story more than they need anything else.
When it comes to these things, like I, and I still think
that there's this constituency that that's using ai.
Like I got an email the other day saying, I noticed you
work with AWS costs, so let's talk about how to lower the
cost of your voice phone system was the opening sentence.
And I honestly couldn't figure out if it was AI run amok or just
someone with not a lot of neurons to bang together to make sparks.
Like on some level it almost doesn't matter
'cause I'm not responding to the bad pitch.
But it is something that makes me think
that you still have to use it appropriately.
You still have to use it appropriately, and it's not something that
that, you know, we haven't really talked about agentic and all that, but
just regular chat, I have, without a doubt, I have won deals because ai.
Was able to flesh out details in the email that I typically ignore.
I am not a big emailer.
I, I'm an email, big email is, I like to use
email, but I don't like pages and pages of emails.
Evidently, my customers like pages and pages of details.
Short email means that you're angry or annoyed
and AI expands.
Like, I don't really know what else to say in this email.
And no AI will say, oh, you missed, you know, these three different topics and
whether they read it or not, whatever, but it, it has been super effective.
Yes, I am a big fan of what some of these things are unlocking.
Uh, Keith, I really wanna thank you for taking the time to speak with me.
If people wanna learn more, where's the best place for them to find you?
The CTO advisor.com.
I'm still trying to buy CTO advisor.com.
The guy wants $1,200 for it.
I refuse.
Now someone's gonna out and pay the 1200 bucks.
I don't really care but.
He, he wants 1200 bucks for it.
I refuse.
The, the, the, the, the site has been abandoned
for years, but, ah, the ct advisor.com
oh, oh.
I have a couple of site domains like that and I've made overtures and when
you come back with a number that has two commas in it, we're done here.
There is no conversation that we are going to have that's
going to lead to an outcome that we're both happy with.
I bet.
We'll of course, put links to that in the show notes.
Keith, thank you so much for your time,
Corey, thanks again.
It's always fun.
Keith Townsend, the CTO advisor.
I'm Cloud economist Cory Quinn, and this is Screaming In the Cloud.
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