1 00:00:05,420 --> 00:00:09,180 Welcome to Sideline, the podcast for the politically 2 00:00:09,180 --> 00:00:09,620 homeless. 3 00:00:10,340 --> 00:00:11,600 And for those who feel that they are 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:11,780 alive. 5 00:00:26,780 --> 00:00:28,020 Around the house today. 6 00:00:28,460 --> 00:00:31,980 The torch lights and carries Trond Sørensen and 7 00:00:31,980 --> 00:00:33,240 myself, Vegard Nuttnes. 8 00:00:35,610 --> 00:00:36,910 That was a cue. 9 00:00:37,350 --> 00:00:37,970 That was a cue. 10 00:00:37,970 --> 00:00:39,350 Now you have to go out and buy 11 00:00:39,350 --> 00:00:39,630 tickets. 12 00:00:40,590 --> 00:00:42,310 Because now you will meet up and go 13 00:00:42,310 --> 00:00:42,790 by train, folks. 14 00:00:43,170 --> 00:00:45,010 Then time and place and ... 15 00:00:45,010 --> 00:00:47,010 Yes, that's more important that you have control 16 00:00:47,010 --> 00:00:47,270 over us. 17 00:00:49,250 --> 00:00:50,450 Yes, I can take it. 18 00:00:51,170 --> 00:00:53,890 Wednesday at 4.30 p.m. Then we 19 00:00:53,890 --> 00:00:54,930 meet at The Lannister. 20 00:00:55,690 --> 00:00:58,390 Then there is a torchlight train for Maria 21 00:00:58,390 --> 00:00:59,630 Corina Marchado. 22 00:01:00,390 --> 00:01:01,390 I do not know if I said it 23 00:01:01,390 --> 00:01:02,670 correctly, but I try as best I can. 24 00:01:03,069 --> 00:01:04,590 The one who won the peace prize. 25 00:01:04,690 --> 00:01:06,110 Arne, you have to come here to take 26 00:01:06,110 --> 00:01:06,750 the Spanish pronunciation. 27 00:01:08,350 --> 00:01:09,250 But anyway. 28 00:01:10,070 --> 00:01:11,410 There it is to go by train. 29 00:01:11,850 --> 00:01:12,430 Torchlight train for her. 30 00:01:12,550 --> 00:01:15,150 Because we will do that since this association, 31 00:01:15,450 --> 00:01:16,850 which one of those who have gone with 32 00:01:16,850 --> 00:01:19,370 torches, has decided that they will not participate. 33 00:01:19,750 --> 00:01:20,610 Then we do it instead. 34 00:01:21,030 --> 00:01:21,210 Right. 35 00:01:22,210 --> 00:01:24,690 She is simply on the right side, she, 36 00:01:24,950 --> 00:01:25,150 Marchado. 37 00:01:25,410 --> 00:01:25,570 Yes. 38 00:01:26,090 --> 00:01:26,990 And that's too bad. 39 00:01:27,270 --> 00:01:30,030 Then you can not be democratically established. 40 00:01:30,590 --> 00:01:30,770 No. 41 00:01:31,590 --> 00:01:32,810 Despite the fact that you are trying to 42 00:01:32,810 --> 00:01:36,170 become a dictator to introduce democracy, you are 43 00:01:36,170 --> 00:01:38,010 a coward because you want to become a 44 00:01:38,010 --> 00:01:38,610 wrong dictator. 45 00:01:39,190 --> 00:01:40,430 So we have to go by torchlight train 46 00:01:40,430 --> 00:01:40,590 then. 47 00:01:40,810 --> 00:01:40,950 Yes. 48 00:01:41,390 --> 00:01:42,790 But we look forward to that. 49 00:01:43,370 --> 00:01:45,970 So you meet at The Lannister at 4 50 00:01:45,970 --> 00:01:47,730 .30 p.m. and then you go by 51 00:01:47,730 --> 00:01:49,350 train a little later. 52 00:01:49,490 --> 00:01:51,490 But we start there so that people can 53 00:01:51,490 --> 00:01:51,850 get something to eat. 54 00:01:51,850 --> 00:01:54,910 I think at six o'clock is the 55 00:01:54,910 --> 00:01:55,710 official time. 56 00:01:56,050 --> 00:01:56,250 Yes. 57 00:01:56,450 --> 00:01:58,990 I think the official torchlight train is an 58 00:01:58,990 --> 00:01:59,790 hour's time or something. 59 00:01:59,790 --> 00:02:00,270 Yes. 60 00:02:00,270 --> 00:02:04,870 Then they will be waving at everything else 61 00:02:04,870 --> 00:02:06,150 at the hotel or the balcony or whatever. 62 00:02:06,930 --> 00:02:07,030 Yes. 63 00:02:07,030 --> 00:02:08,509 Then we will try to get hold of 64 00:02:08,509 --> 00:02:08,609 it. 65 00:02:08,630 --> 00:02:10,330 We have a torchlight train there, but feel 66 00:02:10,330 --> 00:02:10,710 free to bring it. 67 00:02:11,050 --> 00:02:11,430 Yes. 68 00:02:11,570 --> 00:02:13,990 It is sold at some type, Claes Olsson 69 00:02:13,990 --> 00:02:14,710 and so on and so on. 70 00:02:14,890 --> 00:02:16,930 So it's things that are available to get 71 00:02:16,930 --> 00:02:17,750 hold of, does not cost much. 72 00:02:18,490 --> 00:02:20,770 It's a relatively cheap thing to use. 73 00:02:21,270 --> 00:02:21,830 That's great. 74 00:02:22,350 --> 00:02:23,490 Then we have said that. 75 00:02:23,850 --> 00:02:25,270 But it's Wednesday. 76 00:02:25,270 --> 00:02:29,090 Are we going to move on to something 77 00:02:29,090 --> 00:02:30,750 else heavier internationally? 78 00:02:31,410 --> 00:02:34,390 Yes, we have turned on an international tone 79 00:02:34,390 --> 00:02:35,590 here with peace price and all. 80 00:02:36,150 --> 00:02:36,270 Yes. 81 00:02:37,690 --> 00:02:40,230 You trade locally, I think globally, yes. 82 00:02:40,550 --> 00:02:40,710 Yes. 83 00:02:41,310 --> 00:02:45,370 But there is more and more instability in 84 00:02:45,370 --> 00:02:47,150 this world we live in, Trond. 85 00:02:47,450 --> 00:02:47,650 Yes. 86 00:02:48,550 --> 00:02:52,510 New alliances emerge, old institutions disappear. 87 00:02:52,510 --> 00:02:58,330 And a resource struggle is emerging, perhaps. 88 00:02:58,910 --> 00:03:01,530 Geopolitics is a lot about access to resources 89 00:03:01,530 --> 00:03:04,390 and either people or people or minerals or 90 00:03:04,390 --> 00:03:04,530 whatever. 91 00:03:05,710 --> 00:03:09,410 And in Norway we have thought that if 92 00:03:09,410 --> 00:03:10,770 we keep our heads in the ground long 93 00:03:10,770 --> 00:03:13,150 enough, we can continue with our used guns 94 00:03:13,150 --> 00:03:17,450 and our constructive attitude towards international institutions. 95 00:03:17,710 --> 00:03:19,370 It worked so damn well in the 90s. 96 00:03:19,370 --> 00:03:20,250 Yes, it did. 97 00:03:20,610 --> 00:03:24,670 But they die in vain, and new things 98 00:03:24,670 --> 00:03:24,770 emerge. 99 00:03:25,230 --> 00:03:29,230 And one of those things is, now the 100 00:03:29,230 --> 00:03:31,430 army was out in the field, and could 101 00:03:31,430 --> 00:03:33,910 say that they have ordered four submarines, but 102 00:03:33,910 --> 00:03:34,770 there will be two more. 103 00:03:34,770 --> 00:03:35,690 And it will not be cheap. 104 00:03:35,970 --> 00:03:36,230 No. 105 00:03:37,110 --> 00:03:39,490 I understand that a submarine is something that 106 00:03:39,490 --> 00:03:39,970 becomes expensive. 107 00:03:41,090 --> 00:03:41,310 Yes. 108 00:03:41,650 --> 00:03:43,550 But we now pay the same for two 109 00:03:43,550 --> 00:03:45,030 submarines as we paid for the first four. 110 00:03:45,530 --> 00:03:46,290 And that's a little weird. 111 00:03:46,290 --> 00:03:47,850 Yes, I have to say, I think it's 112 00:03:47,850 --> 00:03:49,410 a little weird, but what do I know. 113 00:03:49,730 --> 00:03:51,650 So then they have to be able to 114 00:03:51,650 --> 00:03:54,530 pacify Russian nuclear submarines, I think. 115 00:03:56,370 --> 00:03:59,090 Yes, that's probably what they should be able 116 00:03:59,090 --> 00:03:59,670 to do. 117 00:04:00,110 --> 00:04:01,770 So that's probably the whole point of a 118 00:04:01,770 --> 00:04:04,990 submarine defense, to be able to, on the 119 00:04:04,990 --> 00:04:06,970 one hand, take out other submarines, on the 120 00:04:06,970 --> 00:04:10,790 other hand, be offensive or defensive without being 121 00:04:10,790 --> 00:04:11,050 seen. 122 00:04:11,490 --> 00:04:11,590 Yes. 123 00:04:16,070 --> 00:04:18,290 But in the defense policy, there is a 124 00:04:18,290 --> 00:04:21,530 clear movement in the direction of, shall we 125 00:04:21,530 --> 00:04:23,250 say, realism in Norwegian politics. 126 00:04:23,690 --> 00:04:25,350 Here, frigates must be bought, there must be 127 00:04:25,350 --> 00:04:29,370 strategically reasonable cooperation, when we see that the 128 00:04:29,370 --> 00:04:31,710 United States is falling out of the periphery, 129 00:04:32,130 --> 00:04:33,150 seen from our perspective. 130 00:04:33,750 --> 00:04:34,970 Submarines are bought from Germany. 131 00:04:36,710 --> 00:04:39,750 And then there has become a new defense 132 00:04:39,750 --> 00:04:40,070 agreement. 133 00:04:40,070 --> 00:04:40,670 Yes. 134 00:04:41,370 --> 00:04:42,070 With Great Britain. 135 00:04:42,490 --> 00:04:45,130 We just invited them a week or 14 136 00:04:45,130 --> 00:04:48,030 days ago, and they took it to heart 137 00:04:48,030 --> 00:04:49,690 and said, this was a good idea. 138 00:04:50,030 --> 00:04:51,130 Everyone listens to us. 139 00:04:51,410 --> 00:04:51,550 Yes. 140 00:04:52,830 --> 00:04:56,750 But it is very natural, we said it 141 00:04:56,750 --> 00:04:58,350 that time, it is very natural that they 142 00:04:58,350 --> 00:05:02,130 join this joint command, which is Norway, Sweden, 143 00:05:02,270 --> 00:05:03,830 Finland, Denmark, Iceland. 144 00:05:04,150 --> 00:05:04,330 Yes. 145 00:05:04,670 --> 00:05:05,630 And also Great Britain. 146 00:05:05,630 --> 00:05:06,110 Yes. 147 00:05:06,910 --> 00:05:09,730 And it is strictly not the same order, 148 00:05:10,090 --> 00:05:10,370 I think. 149 00:05:10,810 --> 00:05:13,690 I think this is a bilateral thing, but 150 00:05:13,690 --> 00:05:15,210 cooperation is in anyway. 151 00:05:15,590 --> 00:05:19,470 So the idea here is that British forces 152 00:05:20,150 --> 00:05:23,570 get a larger and more permanent role in 153 00:05:23,570 --> 00:05:24,390 the defense of Norway. 154 00:05:25,470 --> 00:05:27,910 And I have to say that I feel 155 00:05:27,910 --> 00:05:28,510 equal. 156 00:05:29,330 --> 00:05:33,490 I was commanded at the Bardufoss airport almost 157 00:05:33,490 --> 00:05:34,090 30 years ago. 158 00:05:36,210 --> 00:05:38,170 And one of the roles I had there 159 00:05:38,170 --> 00:05:41,370 was to be a liaison officer with British 160 00:05:41,370 --> 00:05:43,830 forces, because they had a permanent training base 161 00:05:43,830 --> 00:05:45,190 there called Clockwork. 162 00:05:45,910 --> 00:05:50,410 So I had a British corporal who was 163 00:05:50,410 --> 00:05:52,390 twice as old as me as such an 164 00:05:52,390 --> 00:05:52,570 opponent. 165 00:05:53,470 --> 00:05:56,310 And that was in itself both instructive and 166 00:05:56,310 --> 00:05:56,590 interesting. 167 00:05:57,010 --> 00:05:59,710 And I also learned that the beer the 168 00:05:59,710 --> 00:06:01,870 British forces had at the barracks was much 169 00:06:01,870 --> 00:06:03,490 stronger than what we had here. 170 00:06:04,330 --> 00:06:05,570 Better beer, simply put. 171 00:06:05,650 --> 00:06:06,870 I don't know if I thought it was 172 00:06:06,870 --> 00:06:08,350 so much better then, because I drank as 173 00:06:08,350 --> 00:06:09,910 usual, and then I got so full that 174 00:06:09,910 --> 00:06:11,730 I couldn't stand on my feet afterwards. 175 00:06:12,370 --> 00:06:13,150 That can be painful. 176 00:06:13,530 --> 00:06:14,630 Yes, it was very unpleasant. 177 00:06:15,030 --> 00:06:20,970 But step by step, European alliances are building 178 00:06:20,970 --> 00:06:24,950 up, strengthened European defense, everyone is rising up, 179 00:06:25,710 --> 00:06:29,850 spend more money, and have a clearer strategic 180 00:06:29,850 --> 00:06:33,630 view that no longer has the security net 181 00:06:33,630 --> 00:06:36,090 that the US has had mentally. 182 00:06:36,610 --> 00:06:39,390 And it's a bit like that, because Trump 183 00:06:39,390 --> 00:06:40,770 has not said that he does not want 184 00:06:40,770 --> 00:06:43,250 to be a part of NATO, but it 185 00:06:43,250 --> 00:06:44,170 has been interpreted that way. 186 00:06:44,590 --> 00:06:45,890 And then Trump has said that you have 187 00:06:45,890 --> 00:06:47,810 to start building your own defense. 188 00:06:48,610 --> 00:06:51,230 And that's what you actually do in Europe 189 00:06:51,230 --> 00:06:51,390 now. 190 00:06:51,670 --> 00:06:54,450 Yes, and to be precise, it's not just 191 00:06:54,450 --> 00:06:55,190 Trump who has said that. 192 00:06:55,430 --> 00:06:57,790 All American presidents have said that since Reagan, 193 00:06:57,930 --> 00:06:58,790 that you have to sharpen yourself. 194 00:06:58,790 --> 00:06:59,210 Yes. 195 00:06:59,950 --> 00:07:01,850 So Obama was also pretty hard on that. 196 00:07:01,910 --> 00:07:03,850 And Jens Stoltenberg, when he was NATO chief, 197 00:07:04,270 --> 00:07:05,510 was also pretty hard on that. 198 00:07:06,770 --> 00:07:09,490 And then there is the geopolitical reality, which 199 00:07:09,490 --> 00:07:13,190 makes it sink in, where Trump's re-election 200 00:07:13,190 --> 00:07:16,450 is one of the geopolitical realities, where you 201 00:07:16,450 --> 00:07:21,070 see these absurd agreement proposals in the war 202 00:07:21,070 --> 00:07:25,270 between Ukraine and Russia, which Europe and European 203 00:07:25,270 --> 00:07:28,790 powers have no influence over, because we are 204 00:07:28,790 --> 00:07:30,950 just irrelevant, because we have not done our 205 00:07:30,950 --> 00:07:31,850 job for so many years. 206 00:07:32,090 --> 00:07:33,610 And then there is no longer a reserved 207 00:07:33,610 --> 00:07:34,350 seat at the table. 208 00:07:35,110 --> 00:07:38,430 And then you actually have to start tidying 209 00:07:38,430 --> 00:07:39,690 up a bit in your own living room. 210 00:07:39,890 --> 00:07:40,970 And it looks like you do. 211 00:07:41,410 --> 00:07:44,490 And then it is interesting that this 28 212 00:07:44,490 --> 00:07:47,350 -point plan, or whatever it is, it is 213 00:07:47,350 --> 00:07:48,850 quite obvious that it will not be anything. 214 00:07:49,110 --> 00:07:52,090 And then I saw an interesting, yes, partly 215 00:07:52,090 --> 00:07:55,150 statistic, partly analysis here the other day, so 216 00:07:55,150 --> 00:07:59,370 you do surveys, such Gallup stuff in the 217 00:07:59,370 --> 00:07:59,810 US, right? 218 00:08:01,010 --> 00:08:02,730 Who do you want to win the war 219 00:08:02,730 --> 00:08:04,130 between Ukraine and Russia? 220 00:08:04,630 --> 00:08:05,730 Which side do you support? 221 00:08:05,930 --> 00:08:06,930 Should we send weapons? 222 00:08:07,590 --> 00:08:09,470 Should we uphold our NATO obligations? 223 00:08:10,030 --> 00:08:11,330 From an American perspective. 224 00:08:12,090 --> 00:08:14,150 And what comes out of that statistic is 225 00:08:14,150 --> 00:08:17,050 that it is overwhelming support. 226 00:08:17,710 --> 00:08:20,870 Both for Ukraine, for NATO, for obligations. 227 00:08:20,870 --> 00:08:25,490 And it's not nonsense either, it's like 65 228 00:08:25,490 --> 00:08:30,970 % support Ukraine and 11% support Russia. 229 00:08:31,549 --> 00:08:33,010 And then there are some uncertainties. 230 00:08:33,610 --> 00:08:38,570 But that Trump-Vance, all sides are of 231 00:08:38,570 --> 00:08:42,270 the same mind, is obviously not reflected in 232 00:08:42,270 --> 00:08:43,390 the American people. 233 00:08:43,850 --> 00:08:46,350 The support for NATO is overwhelming, and what 234 00:08:46,350 --> 00:08:48,130 can be mentioned is that there is a 235 00:08:48,130 --> 00:08:50,110 loose percentage in the local world, right? 236 00:08:50,330 --> 00:08:52,430 Because there are 35% who do not 237 00:08:52,430 --> 00:08:53,910 support Ukraine, and that sounds a bit high. 238 00:08:56,930 --> 00:08:58,730 But as long as that war has gone 239 00:08:58,730 --> 00:09:00,470 on, that number has never been lower. 240 00:09:01,170 --> 00:09:03,970 So there is the greatest support for Ukraine 241 00:09:03,970 --> 00:09:06,990 right now in the American people, according to 242 00:09:06,990 --> 00:09:09,370 these surveys, than there has been at any 243 00:09:09,370 --> 00:09:09,930 point in time before. 244 00:09:10,230 --> 00:09:12,710 And that is mildly surprising to me. 245 00:09:12,710 --> 00:09:17,350 It must be a bit surprising for peace 246 00:09:17,350 --> 00:09:22,170 prize winner, Trump, to help carry. 247 00:09:23,710 --> 00:09:28,350 Trump made me look at a drawing in 248 00:09:28,350 --> 00:09:30,010 a building sports team. 249 00:09:32,030 --> 00:09:33,650 So-called football World Cup. 250 00:09:33,930 --> 00:09:34,610 FIFA World Cup. 251 00:09:34,630 --> 00:09:36,410 That is the silliest I have ever seen. 252 00:09:37,150 --> 00:09:40,650 Yes, it is very, very, it should be 253 00:09:40,650 --> 00:09:40,990 said. 254 00:09:40,990 --> 00:09:44,370 The building original who directed it, he can 255 00:09:44,370 --> 00:09:44,950 get a picture of me. 256 00:09:45,270 --> 00:09:46,510 The FIFA president. 257 00:09:47,490 --> 00:09:50,850 And then there was someone to be the 258 00:09:50,850 --> 00:09:51,730 host, except for him. 259 00:09:52,110 --> 00:09:56,210 But now this FIFA president is not ... 260 00:09:56,210 --> 00:10:00,150 He is not the most popular person out 261 00:10:00,150 --> 00:10:00,350 there. 262 00:10:01,470 --> 00:10:05,710 Gianni Infantino is a Swiss by birth. 263 00:10:06,170 --> 00:10:09,590 But he has fled from Switzerland to Qatar. 264 00:10:09,590 --> 00:10:11,970 And that's because maybe that's where it would 265 00:10:11,970 --> 00:10:13,310 have been best to live after having given 266 00:10:13,310 --> 00:10:14,470 the football World Cup to Qatar. 267 00:10:14,830 --> 00:10:18,150 And no one really wanted them to have 268 00:10:18,150 --> 00:10:18,970 it, but he wanted it. 269 00:10:19,450 --> 00:10:20,590 And he is a corrupt devil. 270 00:10:21,410 --> 00:10:25,450 That's probably his general view, that he is 271 00:10:25,450 --> 00:10:31,330 the world's most official mafioso, corrupt, bandit thing. 272 00:10:31,490 --> 00:10:33,950 And FIFA is a shit organization. 273 00:10:34,390 --> 00:10:35,730 A shit organization that has a set of 274 00:10:35,730 --> 00:10:37,750 rules that they completely threw off the boat 275 00:10:37,750 --> 00:10:40,450 to be able to make a peace agreement 276 00:10:40,450 --> 00:10:42,430 that could be made to be able to 277 00:10:42,430 --> 00:10:43,210 give to Trump. 278 00:10:44,270 --> 00:10:46,250 That was so embarrassing. 279 00:10:46,510 --> 00:10:47,610 It was so embarrassing. 280 00:10:50,090 --> 00:10:52,930 Obama had promised to be embarrassed about getting 281 00:10:52,930 --> 00:10:55,350 the real peace agreement on a failing foundation. 282 00:10:58,390 --> 00:11:01,630 While Trump seemed like he took this peace 283 00:11:01,630 --> 00:11:02,470 agreement with a straight back. 284 00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:06,270 Yes, he has asked for this, and as 285 00:11:06,270 --> 00:11:08,430 far as I understood, this peace agreement came 286 00:11:08,430 --> 00:11:10,290 to the table as a consequence of him 287 00:11:10,290 --> 00:11:11,310 not getting the peace agreement. 288 00:11:13,450 --> 00:11:17,050 Then he apparently called Gianni and said, you 289 00:11:17,050 --> 00:11:18,330 have to make a peace agreement with me. 290 00:11:18,490 --> 00:11:22,010 And he was really careful in his faith 291 00:11:22,010 --> 00:11:25,010 in sabotaging football in the USA. 292 00:11:26,410 --> 00:11:27,330 In the meantime. 293 00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:30,470 To create an incentive structure. 294 00:11:30,650 --> 00:11:32,250 Yes, but there are some of these cities 295 00:11:32,250 --> 00:11:35,070 that we may have to declare not safe 296 00:11:35,070 --> 00:11:36,510 to arrange a football World Cup. 297 00:11:36,730 --> 00:11:38,030 So then you can't have a football World 298 00:11:38,030 --> 00:11:38,630 Cup in these cities. 299 00:11:40,450 --> 00:11:41,730 Because they are not safe. 300 00:11:43,290 --> 00:11:45,630 And then he made a peace agreement to 301 00:11:45,630 --> 00:11:46,810 him, and then he was so satisfied that 302 00:11:46,810 --> 00:11:48,250 people could play wherever they wanted. 303 00:11:51,050 --> 00:11:53,310 This is such an old man who has 304 00:11:53,310 --> 00:11:53,910 gone through childhood. 305 00:11:56,690 --> 00:11:59,270 It was really, really weird to watch. 306 00:11:59,270 --> 00:12:02,750 It looked like a meeting at a bar. 307 00:12:03,290 --> 00:12:04,390 A bar revue. 308 00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:05,350 Yes. 309 00:12:05,790 --> 00:12:07,630 Or a local Dig Dugnal was probably what 310 00:12:07,630 --> 00:12:08,030 we meant. 311 00:12:10,370 --> 00:12:13,150 How does such a person have influence over 312 00:12:13,150 --> 00:12:13,470 anything? 313 00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:15,770 And the direction of that stuff. 314 00:12:17,270 --> 00:12:19,390 I see that people who are interested in 315 00:12:19,390 --> 00:12:21,150 football also think this was totally cruel. 316 00:12:21,510 --> 00:12:21,810 Yes, yes. 317 00:12:23,350 --> 00:12:25,030 Just throwing away time, right? 318 00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:26,090 For hours. 319 00:12:26,850 --> 00:12:29,850 With nonsense and a peace price. 320 00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:33,730 And you say to me, right, that you 321 00:12:33,730 --> 00:12:34,910 have to follow this, Vegard. 322 00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:36,830 And then there is a so-called withdrawal, 323 00:12:37,010 --> 00:12:38,190 where you should withdraw something by chance, but 324 00:12:38,190 --> 00:12:39,490 everyone withdraws their own country. 325 00:12:39,770 --> 00:12:41,090 Yes, that was planned. 326 00:12:41,930 --> 00:12:43,490 Yes, no one understood that. 327 00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:45,970 The three world nations are supposed to be 328 00:12:45,970 --> 00:12:48,330 first in each group. 329 00:12:50,110 --> 00:12:51,550 So they didn't really need to withdraw. 330 00:12:51,550 --> 00:12:55,810 They just knew which group they were supposed 331 00:12:55,810 --> 00:12:56,170 to be in. 332 00:12:56,970 --> 00:13:00,350 So this is dramaturgy for an 11-year 333 00:13:00,350 --> 00:13:00,450 -old. 334 00:13:00,910 --> 00:13:01,270 Yes. 335 00:13:01,950 --> 00:13:04,790 Because everyone knows that the opening match was 336 00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:07,410 supposed to be from that group, and go 337 00:13:07,410 --> 00:13:10,770 to Mexico, and be with Mexico, right? 338 00:13:11,010 --> 00:13:12,130 So it was just fixed. 339 00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:17,570 So there were some matches that you already 340 00:13:17,570 --> 00:13:18,830 knew when to go. 341 00:13:18,830 --> 00:13:22,850 And you just had to make a lot 342 00:13:22,850 --> 00:13:23,450 of nonsense out of it. 343 00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:25,490 And this was even when Trump made a 344 00:13:25,490 --> 00:13:25,910 little mistake. 345 00:13:27,090 --> 00:13:29,590 Even he understood that this was just to 346 00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:31,150 get these people on stage again. 347 00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:34,170 Even Trump has longer social antennas than the 348 00:13:34,170 --> 00:13:34,670 original picture. 349 00:13:35,150 --> 00:13:38,110 Yes, and that's a good thing. 350 00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:39,570 And after all that was going on there, 351 00:13:39,950 --> 00:13:42,290 I realized that we got the death group. 352 00:13:42,730 --> 00:13:44,910 Yes, this is the thing. 353 00:13:45,310 --> 00:13:46,890 Sorry, France got the death group. 354 00:13:46,890 --> 00:13:51,090 Yes, because the analysis is as follows. 355 00:13:51,550 --> 00:13:53,010 The group Norway ends up in is the 356 00:13:53,010 --> 00:13:53,390 death group. 357 00:13:53,730 --> 00:13:54,970 And this is not a Norwegian analysis. 358 00:13:55,830 --> 00:13:57,230 This is how you look at it on 359 00:13:57,230 --> 00:13:57,730 a global basis. 360 00:13:58,130 --> 00:14:00,090 The group that Norway ends up in becomes 361 00:14:00,090 --> 00:14:03,070 the death group, because Norway is third, but 362 00:14:03,070 --> 00:14:06,110 everyone says that they are much, much better 363 00:14:06,110 --> 00:14:06,650 than that. 364 00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:09,790 They should probably have been second, but they 365 00:14:09,790 --> 00:14:11,750 are not, because they haven't played well long 366 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:12,090 enough. 367 00:14:13,050 --> 00:14:14,670 And it's been a long time since we've 368 00:14:14,670 --> 00:14:15,050 had anything like this. 369 00:14:15,390 --> 00:14:17,490 That's why it's the death group anyway. 370 00:14:17,810 --> 00:14:18,830 And that was the last time we were 371 00:14:18,830 --> 00:14:19,870 in the US too. 372 00:14:20,170 --> 00:14:21,550 That was the death group. 373 00:14:21,870 --> 00:14:24,550 There you end up with 4 points and 374 00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:26,530 the same goal difference on all 4 teams. 375 00:14:27,150 --> 00:14:28,250 Yes, okay. 376 00:14:28,450 --> 00:14:28,850 I know that. 377 00:14:29,230 --> 00:14:31,110 No, but it's a very, very special thing. 378 00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:32,470 Was that when we beat Brazil? 379 00:14:33,270 --> 00:14:34,850 Yes, we beat Brazil. 380 00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:36,910 I hoped we would end up in the 381 00:14:36,910 --> 00:14:38,830 group with Brazil, because we have a bit 382 00:14:38,830 --> 00:14:39,610 of experience with that. 383 00:14:39,830 --> 00:14:41,030 Yes, so we have never lost. 384 00:14:41,790 --> 00:14:43,930 Norway has never lost a football match to 385 00:14:43,930 --> 00:14:44,250 Brazil. 386 00:14:44,970 --> 00:14:46,610 And it is the only nation in the 387 00:14:46,610 --> 00:14:48,370 world that has not lost to Brazil, that 388 00:14:48,370 --> 00:14:49,050 has played against them. 389 00:14:49,210 --> 00:14:49,950 There are a lot of things I don't 390 00:14:49,950 --> 00:14:50,370 know about here. 391 00:14:50,610 --> 00:14:52,470 Yes, we have good statistics there. 392 00:14:52,510 --> 00:14:53,670 I understand that Brazil is good. 393 00:14:53,930 --> 00:14:55,450 Yes, they have always been the world's best 394 00:14:55,450 --> 00:14:55,910 football team. 395 00:14:56,650 --> 00:14:57,050 But... 396 00:14:57,050 --> 00:14:58,050 It's a country team. 397 00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:59,030 But they are... 398 00:14:59,690 --> 00:15:00,830 Yes, so I understand now. 399 00:15:01,010 --> 00:15:04,190 It was France and Spain that you didn't 400 00:15:04,190 --> 00:15:04,630 want to have. 401 00:15:05,210 --> 00:15:06,870 And then there is Argentina and Brazil. 402 00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:10,270 Yes, and then we got Senegal from Africa, 403 00:15:10,430 --> 00:15:11,790 who are also very good. 404 00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:16,290 Yes, and they were in the second group. 405 00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:18,610 So that was the best you could get 406 00:15:18,610 --> 00:15:18,850 there. 407 00:15:19,190 --> 00:15:20,410 And then Norway was the best you could 408 00:15:20,410 --> 00:15:21,190 get in the third group. 409 00:15:21,530 --> 00:15:21,990 Yes. 410 00:15:22,750 --> 00:15:24,690 So we are at the top of each 411 00:15:24,690 --> 00:15:25,050 group. 412 00:15:25,370 --> 00:15:26,510 Yes, I think that's good. 413 00:15:26,750 --> 00:15:28,230 Then we get... 414 00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:31,710 The downside is that we got matches that 415 00:15:31,710 --> 00:15:34,030 go at a time when it is not 416 00:15:34,030 --> 00:15:35,010 allowed to serve alcohol. 417 00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:38,550 And that's actually the headline from VG. 418 00:15:39,150 --> 00:15:43,330 Yes, it is Norwegian alcohol politics that is 419 00:15:43,330 --> 00:15:43,790 challenged. 420 00:15:44,430 --> 00:15:47,010 Let's hope that can lead to a little 421 00:15:47,010 --> 00:15:48,310 adjustment in the rules and such. 422 00:15:48,810 --> 00:15:50,470 It would have been nice with a little... 423 00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:52,410 Now we have allowed serving until 5 o 424 00:15:52,410 --> 00:15:53,810 'clock in the morning, because the match actually 425 00:15:53,810 --> 00:15:54,770 ends at 3 o'clock. 426 00:15:56,530 --> 00:15:58,390 But that's not what we were supposed to 427 00:15:58,390 --> 00:15:58,750 talk about. 428 00:15:58,870 --> 00:15:59,190 Football. 429 00:16:00,090 --> 00:16:00,270 But... 430 00:16:00,270 --> 00:16:00,450 It wasn't. 431 00:16:00,870 --> 00:16:01,110 No. 432 00:16:01,350 --> 00:16:03,270 But it was at least international football. 433 00:16:03,630 --> 00:16:03,970 Yes. 434 00:16:04,770 --> 00:16:08,730 But it was a little too much fun 435 00:16:08,730 --> 00:16:13,370 to talk about Trump and Gianni and FIFA 436 00:16:13,370 --> 00:16:13,830 and such. 437 00:16:14,170 --> 00:16:14,770 Let it be. 438 00:16:15,490 --> 00:16:16,010 Yes. 439 00:16:16,770 --> 00:16:17,050 No, no. 440 00:16:17,790 --> 00:16:19,410 It will be more... 441 00:16:19,410 --> 00:16:21,110 It will be tight football coverage here on 442 00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:23,070 the sidelines, I think, when we approach the 443 00:16:23,070 --> 00:16:23,270 World Cup. 444 00:16:23,750 --> 00:16:24,270 Yes. 445 00:16:24,770 --> 00:16:26,610 I suspect that we will look at a 446 00:16:26,610 --> 00:16:27,530 lot outside of sports. 447 00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:30,270 Then of course I will watch football. 448 00:16:30,270 --> 00:16:32,670 Without being too honest, I will of course 449 00:16:32,670 --> 00:16:33,130 watch football. 450 00:16:33,470 --> 00:16:34,930 Then you can come here and tell us 451 00:16:34,930 --> 00:16:35,450 how it went. 452 00:16:35,790 --> 00:16:35,970 Yes. 453 00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:38,330 I think that if we get far enough, 454 00:16:38,390 --> 00:16:39,550 you will be at the party anyway. 455 00:16:40,030 --> 00:16:40,270 Yes. 456 00:16:40,690 --> 00:16:44,230 When Norway beat Brazil last time, whether it 457 00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:45,190 was the World Cup or what it was, 458 00:16:45,270 --> 00:16:46,090 because I don't know what it was. 459 00:16:46,330 --> 00:16:48,870 But I actually saw that match and was 460 00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:49,610 at the party afterwards. 461 00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:50,030 Yes. 462 00:16:50,250 --> 00:16:50,810 Good atmosphere. 463 00:16:51,330 --> 00:16:53,350 Yes, it was very tense. 464 00:16:53,750 --> 00:16:56,190 But I don't think the football match was 465 00:16:56,190 --> 00:16:56,310 so... 466 00:16:56,310 --> 00:16:57,710 I don't remember anything from the football match. 467 00:16:59,550 --> 00:17:00,950 I'm not going to go into details here. 468 00:17:01,490 --> 00:17:02,830 It may have something to do with the 469 00:17:02,830 --> 00:17:03,710 fact that I was not honoured when I 470 00:17:03,710 --> 00:17:04,190 saw that match. 471 00:17:04,329 --> 00:17:04,630 I remember that. 472 00:17:06,550 --> 00:17:11,510 We were in the defence agreement with Great 473 00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:11,750 Britain. 474 00:17:12,109 --> 00:17:14,050 And that is a clear shift in Norwegian 475 00:17:14,050 --> 00:17:14,670 politics, at least. 476 00:17:14,990 --> 00:17:18,190 That we look more and more to Great 477 00:17:18,190 --> 00:17:20,609 Britain to fill some of the vacuum that 478 00:17:20,609 --> 00:17:23,069 the United States leaves behind. 479 00:17:23,069 --> 00:17:27,530 The frigate purchase is a clear strategic link. 480 00:17:27,930 --> 00:17:30,690 And then there is a concrete defence agreement 481 00:17:30,690 --> 00:17:32,790 with British forces on Norwegian soil and all 482 00:17:32,790 --> 00:17:32,890 that. 483 00:17:33,370 --> 00:17:36,510 And the fact that we strengthen submarine weapons. 484 00:17:36,910 --> 00:17:38,290 Because it was... 485 00:17:38,290 --> 00:17:40,870 Ordered four, had an option of some more 486 00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:43,950 to use that option, even though it was 487 00:17:43,950 --> 00:17:44,690 damn expensive. 488 00:17:45,250 --> 00:17:47,150 It's a bit like that, that I offer 489 00:17:47,150 --> 00:17:47,550 questions. 490 00:17:47,710 --> 00:17:51,250 I suspect that the demand for submarines has 491 00:17:51,250 --> 00:17:52,090 risen quite a bit. 492 00:17:52,090 --> 00:17:53,190 But it's also the price. 493 00:17:53,570 --> 00:17:54,330 That's probably right. 494 00:17:54,690 --> 00:17:56,690 And it's not like we're living in an 495 00:17:56,690 --> 00:17:58,130 inflation-free time either. 496 00:17:58,910 --> 00:18:00,230 Of course, when there are a few years 497 00:18:00,230 --> 00:18:02,010 in between, it's been 56 years since we 498 00:18:02,010 --> 00:18:04,570 ordered the first four, so it has increased 499 00:18:04,570 --> 00:18:06,290 a bit on several fronts. 500 00:18:06,790 --> 00:18:07,770 So that's how it is. 501 00:18:08,170 --> 00:18:10,670 But it's not unfavourable for Great Britain, because 502 00:18:10,670 --> 00:18:12,670 we're going to patrol the same sea areas. 503 00:18:13,470 --> 00:18:16,870 The area between Greenland and Norway, with Iceland 504 00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:20,490 and Great Britain in it, is an essential 505 00:18:20,490 --> 00:18:21,850 strategic sea area. 506 00:18:22,490 --> 00:18:24,610 And not to mention Svalbard as well. 507 00:18:25,070 --> 00:18:27,290 I think that the most important function of 508 00:18:27,290 --> 00:18:29,170 the submarines is to be able to block 509 00:18:29,170 --> 00:18:32,350 the way in to where the Russian northern 510 00:18:32,350 --> 00:18:33,790 fleet holds when it is not on the 511 00:18:33,790 --> 00:18:33,890 sea. 512 00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:36,470 Oh yes, on the Kola Island. 513 00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:38,410 We just lie down outside and just block 514 00:18:38,410 --> 00:18:38,730 the way. 515 00:18:39,090 --> 00:18:39,250 Yes. 516 00:18:39,710 --> 00:18:40,650 That's probably popular. 517 00:18:40,970 --> 00:18:41,150 Yes. 518 00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:44,550 If necessary, we can close there. 519 00:18:45,310 --> 00:18:45,650 That would be nice. 520 00:18:45,650 --> 00:18:47,610 And they have another place a bit further 521 00:18:47,610 --> 00:18:48,910 in, in Russia, where there are a lot 522 00:18:48,910 --> 00:18:49,450 of submarines. 523 00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:54,270 It's a bit further in, and it's such 524 00:18:54,270 --> 00:18:55,910 a cramped and difficult area to get into. 525 00:18:56,130 --> 00:18:59,190 Yes, but the northern fleet is in Murmansk, 526 00:18:59,830 --> 00:19:01,950 Kola Island and this area behind it, right? 527 00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:03,830 And then you have Norway, Serbia and so 528 00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:03,930 on. 529 00:19:04,410 --> 00:19:05,170 Yes, that's what I was thinking. 530 00:19:06,970 --> 00:19:09,890 Not Kola Island, but Murmansk and that part 531 00:19:09,890 --> 00:19:11,210 there, but it's probably where the submarines are, 532 00:19:11,310 --> 00:19:11,410 isn't it? 533 00:19:12,050 --> 00:19:14,290 Yes, the entire northern fleet is stationed there. 534 00:19:14,290 --> 00:19:19,690 And then you have the Baltic Fleet or 535 00:19:19,690 --> 00:19:22,430 something like that, which is partly Kaliningrad, partly 536 00:19:22,430 --> 00:19:25,650 St. Petersburg, but there it is cramped no 537 00:19:25,650 --> 00:19:26,270 matter where they sail. 538 00:19:26,890 --> 00:19:27,990 And then you have the Black Sea Fleet, 539 00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:30,150 which is over to Brooklyn now. 540 00:19:31,050 --> 00:19:33,170 A very strong submarine fleet. 541 00:19:35,710 --> 00:19:37,310 Most of the ships are on the bottom 542 00:19:37,310 --> 00:19:37,410 of the sea. 543 00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:39,130 Yes, that's what I hear. 544 00:19:41,090 --> 00:19:43,210 And then you have the Stirling Sea Fleet, 545 00:19:43,210 --> 00:19:46,550 and it operates freely, but you can't do 546 00:19:46,550 --> 00:19:48,170 much with it, because it's a part of 547 00:19:48,170 --> 00:19:48,370 yours. 548 00:19:48,670 --> 00:19:53,130 Instead of the four base areas that Russia 549 00:19:53,130 --> 00:19:53,310 has. 550 00:19:53,950 --> 00:19:56,170 I believe that the Ukrainians can manage to 551 00:19:56,170 --> 00:19:58,070 reach out and take out some other systems 552 00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:59,010 there as well. 553 00:19:59,130 --> 00:20:00,230 They have shown themselves to be able to 554 00:20:00,230 --> 00:20:00,470 ... 555 00:20:00,470 --> 00:20:04,590 Yes, it's almost continuous now, and they've been 556 00:20:04,590 --> 00:20:06,190 working on that lately, that they're starting to 557 00:20:06,190 --> 00:20:08,530 take out this shadow fleet for Russia. 558 00:20:08,530 --> 00:20:12,510 Now there is a tanker and a cargo 559 00:20:12,510 --> 00:20:15,470 ship that is smoking both here and there. 560 00:20:16,270 --> 00:20:20,050 And I understand Ukraine's angle in that. 561 00:20:20,510 --> 00:20:23,630 Russia tried to block the export from Ukraine, 562 00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:24,290 they couldn't do it. 563 00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:27,730 Ukraine exports, and now Ukraine responds with the 564 00:20:27,730 --> 00:20:31,070 same mint and destroys the shadow export industry 565 00:20:31,070 --> 00:20:34,130 to Russia, and they seem to be quite 566 00:20:34,130 --> 00:20:35,810 successful with it so far. 567 00:20:35,810 --> 00:20:38,210 We'll see how big and how much they 568 00:20:38,210 --> 00:20:40,850 get, but now they send their own cruise 569 00:20:40,850 --> 00:20:45,050 missiles against oil refineries, and I think the 570 00:20:45,050 --> 00:20:47,610 average is that a couple of missiles go 571 00:20:47,610 --> 00:20:51,530 every day, which takes out something industrial or 572 00:20:51,530 --> 00:20:52,790 productive in Russia. 573 00:20:53,150 --> 00:20:55,150 And that can be expensive for Russia's war 574 00:20:55,150 --> 00:20:55,750 economy. 575 00:20:56,730 --> 00:20:59,230 We'll see how well they succeed with it. 576 00:20:59,890 --> 00:21:02,650 I think it was a bit of ... 577 00:21:02,650 --> 00:21:04,410 Now there was something in Europe that didn't 578 00:21:04,410 --> 00:21:07,890 think this 28 pound throw Ukraine to the 579 00:21:07,890 --> 00:21:10,610 dogs plan was particularly good. 580 00:21:10,930 --> 00:21:11,710 Yes, it was in the middle of the 581 00:21:11,710 --> 00:21:11,810 tree. 582 00:21:12,270 --> 00:21:15,210 Yes, but I have the impression that just 583 00:21:15,210 --> 00:21:18,730 starting to take out that shadow fleet makes 584 00:21:18,730 --> 00:21:21,370 Ukraine come in a slightly different position when 585 00:21:21,370 --> 00:21:22,550 it comes to the front as well. 586 00:21:23,150 --> 00:21:26,670 They don't need to let themselves be overtaken 587 00:21:26,670 --> 00:21:28,430 to the same extent, because everyone understands that 588 00:21:28,430 --> 00:21:29,950 if they continue to fight, it's not over 589 00:21:29,950 --> 00:21:31,830 in three months or six months, but if 590 00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:34,870 they take out the shadow fleet, they do 591 00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:37,750 long-term damage to Russia's economy. 592 00:21:38,050 --> 00:21:41,170 If your opponent is a competition, it's not 593 00:21:41,170 --> 00:21:42,010 so easy to continue the war. 594 00:21:42,330 --> 00:21:42,870 No, and it is. 595 00:21:43,110 --> 00:21:44,730 I don't know how many ships are in 596 00:21:44,730 --> 00:21:48,190 your shadow fleet, but it's not good to 597 00:21:48,190 --> 00:21:51,570 say, because you don't know everything that is 598 00:21:51,570 --> 00:21:54,750 and isn't, and it has other nations' flags 599 00:21:54,750 --> 00:21:54,990 and such. 600 00:21:55,430 --> 00:21:58,630 It can also be mentioned, I think all 601 00:21:58,630 --> 00:22:01,130 the attacks on this shadow fleet and among 602 00:22:01,130 --> 00:22:04,290 others the Turkish ship that was attempted to 603 00:22:04,290 --> 00:22:06,150 sink, I'm not sure if it sank, but... 604 00:22:06,150 --> 00:22:07,870 No, I don't think it did. 605 00:22:08,110 --> 00:22:09,170 It was a bit low in the sea, 606 00:22:09,270 --> 00:22:09,450 at least. 607 00:22:11,090 --> 00:22:14,170 But as far as I have seen, there 608 00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:16,510 have been systematic attacks that have not gone 609 00:22:16,510 --> 00:22:17,110 beyond the crew. 610 00:22:17,530 --> 00:22:17,770 Yes. 611 00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:19,410 Beyond the fact that they had to leave 612 00:22:19,410 --> 00:22:19,750 the ship. 613 00:22:20,170 --> 00:22:24,190 So far, no deaths related to that, and 614 00:22:24,190 --> 00:22:26,850 that's probably a wise approach from Ukraine. 615 00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:27,670 I think that's very smart. 616 00:22:27,670 --> 00:22:32,070 If you start attacking Turkish ships, and the 617 00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:33,510 crew dies, it can happen that the Turks 618 00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:34,450 start to mix up. 619 00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:34,790 Yes. 620 00:22:35,310 --> 00:22:35,670 In the wrong way. 621 00:22:36,050 --> 00:22:38,610 Yes, and now it's not given that there 622 00:22:38,610 --> 00:22:39,690 is... 623 00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:41,870 The nationality of who is on board can 624 00:22:41,870 --> 00:22:45,970 be anything, but the flag was Turkish on 625 00:22:45,970 --> 00:22:46,510 one of these ships. 626 00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:48,930 But that must be a bit risky for 627 00:22:48,930 --> 00:22:52,710 the Turks too, that the ships with their 628 00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:55,210 flag are rented out to this shadow fleet. 629 00:22:55,210 --> 00:22:59,170 It may be less interesting if there is 630 00:22:59,170 --> 00:23:02,410 a risk that the ship has to dock 631 00:23:02,410 --> 00:23:04,410 to repair a hole. 632 00:23:05,610 --> 00:23:06,450 It's costly. 633 00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:08,530 Then it's not so interesting anymore. 634 00:23:08,690 --> 00:23:11,970 That's a clear strategic part of it, from 635 00:23:11,970 --> 00:23:14,050 the Ukrainian side, I would think, that you 636 00:23:14,050 --> 00:23:15,970 do it a little unattractive to contribute. 637 00:23:16,350 --> 00:23:18,470 What has also struck me is that they 638 00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:21,730 have not taken out a tanker that has 639 00:23:21,730 --> 00:23:22,430 gone up with oil. 640 00:23:22,430 --> 00:23:24,570 When they have taken out, they have taken 641 00:23:24,570 --> 00:23:26,030 out ships that go with ballast. 642 00:23:26,410 --> 00:23:28,750 That is, just fill the tanks with salt 643 00:23:28,750 --> 00:23:29,230 water and everything. 644 00:23:30,590 --> 00:23:34,670 It's almost like they've made a wooden ball 645 00:23:34,670 --> 00:23:35,470 and want them to do it. 646 00:23:36,970 --> 00:23:39,170 Where they only have bunker oil for operation, 647 00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:41,310 not full oil tanks to deliver. 648 00:23:41,950 --> 00:23:45,630 Yes, and that is probably wise again, because 649 00:23:45,630 --> 00:23:47,910 they are dependent on volunteers in the West, 650 00:23:48,150 --> 00:23:51,830 and there are enough climate and environmental fanatics 651 00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:54,390 here that they would have lowered their own 652 00:23:54,390 --> 00:23:56,930 stars if there was any seafood that got 653 00:23:56,930 --> 00:23:57,990 a black spot on it. 654 00:23:58,310 --> 00:24:03,990 Yes, really well navigated geopolitics of Ukraine, I 655 00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:04,270 would say. 656 00:24:04,590 --> 00:24:05,690 Yes, at least it looks like that. 657 00:24:06,110 --> 00:24:09,930 And then I'm going to give Russia's apologetics 658 00:24:09,930 --> 00:24:11,770 right in one thing, and that is that 659 00:24:11,770 --> 00:24:13,630 we get a rather skewed media image in 660 00:24:13,630 --> 00:24:15,930 Norway, which is very friendly to Ukraine and 661 00:24:15,930 --> 00:24:16,590 very hostile to Russia. 662 00:24:17,370 --> 00:24:17,490 Yes. 663 00:24:17,790 --> 00:24:21,150 And you can be aware of that, even 664 00:24:21,150 --> 00:24:25,410 though I experience that right and wrong are 665 00:24:25,410 --> 00:24:29,470 completely open doors, that Russia makes a mistake 666 00:24:29,470 --> 00:24:31,490 in this conflict, and Ukraine has the right 667 00:24:31,490 --> 00:24:32,130 on its side. 668 00:24:32,590 --> 00:24:36,190 But that we get a rather skewed and 669 00:24:36,190 --> 00:24:39,950 friendly image of Ukraine is relatively obvious. 670 00:24:40,270 --> 00:24:43,930 I have talked to a Ukrainian, who is 671 00:24:43,930 --> 00:24:46,790 not necessarily very political, but I was a 672 00:24:46,790 --> 00:24:51,330 little interested in this corruption scandal in Ukraine, 673 00:24:51,570 --> 00:24:53,890 where Zelenskiy's chief of staff had to leave. 674 00:24:54,210 --> 00:24:57,190 And then I ask about these things that 675 00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:57,890 ... 676 00:24:57,890 --> 00:24:59,370 Yes, there has not been a choice there, 677 00:24:59,470 --> 00:24:59,570 right? 678 00:24:59,710 --> 00:25:02,790 Not that it is actually illegitimate, because it 679 00:25:02,790 --> 00:25:04,510 is a bit difficult to make a choice 680 00:25:04,510 --> 00:25:08,650 when a seventh of your population is under 681 00:25:08,650 --> 00:25:09,630 occupation and so on. 682 00:25:10,130 --> 00:25:11,410 It can be a bit demanding. 683 00:25:11,770 --> 00:25:13,250 Yes, and there are new soldiers on the 684 00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:14,850 front lines, it's not so easy to ... 685 00:25:14,850 --> 00:25:16,190 Yes, but that's the same. 686 00:25:16,790 --> 00:25:20,990 Then I ask, yes, what is the feeling 687 00:25:20,990 --> 00:25:23,270 on the ground in Ukraine? 688 00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:26,550 Do you think Zelenskiy is involved in this? 689 00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:28,590 That his personal is corrupt? 690 00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:31,010 Yes, it is quite obvious that he is. 691 00:25:31,370 --> 00:25:31,970 Of course. 692 00:25:32,330 --> 00:25:35,950 His friends, his friends, his associates, he is 693 00:25:35,950 --> 00:25:36,970 obviously corrupt. 694 00:25:37,230 --> 00:25:37,890 Everyone is corrupt. 695 00:25:38,110 --> 00:25:39,350 It is possible he is less corrupt than 696 00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:40,730 others, but of course he is corrupt. 697 00:25:40,730 --> 00:25:44,070 And then I talk about the situation in 698 00:25:44,070 --> 00:25:46,250 Norway, and that the support for Ukraine is 699 00:25:46,250 --> 00:25:47,650 still good, and then I get to Sweden, 700 00:25:47,730 --> 00:25:49,470 but that's nice to hear and so on. 701 00:25:49,510 --> 00:25:50,910 But don't send any money. 702 00:25:51,150 --> 00:25:51,490 Yes. 703 00:25:54,050 --> 00:25:55,430 Because everything is corrupt. 704 00:25:55,910 --> 00:25:57,730 Send military equipment that cannot be used for 705 00:25:57,730 --> 00:25:59,310 anything else, something that goes into the war 706 00:25:59,310 --> 00:26:02,390 effort, and number it, so that you can 707 00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:04,870 feel that every single thing is used in 708 00:26:04,870 --> 00:26:06,270 the war effort, and not to be sold 709 00:26:06,270 --> 00:26:07,310 on the black market or whatever. 710 00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:11,310 So the support for their own authorities was 711 00:26:11,310 --> 00:26:12,650 not the whole world. 712 00:26:12,990 --> 00:26:13,150 No. 713 00:26:13,610 --> 00:26:16,390 And this is just one person and one 714 00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:18,910 point of view, but I had no expectations 715 00:26:18,910 --> 00:26:21,050 that there would be a very clear, I 716 00:26:21,050 --> 00:26:24,650 apologize, a Russian-speaking Ukrainian, who is clearly 717 00:26:24,650 --> 00:26:27,050 on the Ukrainian side, no doubt about that, 718 00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:31,690 and irritated by Russia and Russia's imperialism, but 719 00:26:31,690 --> 00:26:36,330 also sufficiently committed to Ukraine's corruption and Ukraine's, 720 00:26:36,330 --> 00:26:38,590 yes, rip in the skin. 721 00:26:39,870 --> 00:26:43,650 Ukraine was an extremely corrupt country before this. 722 00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:48,430 Unfortunately, it's a bit like those people who 723 00:26:48,430 --> 00:26:51,050 were corrupt, they didn't think that maybe we 724 00:26:51,050 --> 00:26:53,410 should let that be an advantage to defend 725 00:26:53,410 --> 00:26:53,690 ourselves. 726 00:26:54,730 --> 00:26:55,090 No, that's not true. 727 00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:57,550 And then there are some, what do you 728 00:26:57,550 --> 00:26:57,650 see? 729 00:26:57,690 --> 00:26:59,950 Numbers that are completely insane, right? 730 00:27:00,170 --> 00:27:03,450 There are 100 billion dollars that have been 731 00:27:03,450 --> 00:27:05,570 lost to corruption. 732 00:27:05,910 --> 00:27:06,770 A bit insane. 733 00:27:07,310 --> 00:27:12,970 I actually have no intention or methodology to 734 00:27:12,970 --> 00:27:15,410 understand the scope, because it is so foreign 735 00:27:15,410 --> 00:27:15,810 to me. 736 00:27:16,090 --> 00:27:23,410 So this Ukrainian I'm talking to, is asked, 737 00:27:24,170 --> 00:27:26,850 yes, but in Norway, how much corruption do 738 00:27:26,850 --> 00:27:27,070 you have here? 739 00:27:27,170 --> 00:27:29,470 And then I answer, a bit Norwegian naive, 740 00:27:29,470 --> 00:27:33,830 that we don't have formal corruption, like I 741 00:27:33,830 --> 00:27:36,450 have lived here for almost 50 years, and 742 00:27:36,450 --> 00:27:38,530 I have never experienced corruption. 743 00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:41,370 Like I have never seen money in a 744 00:27:41,370 --> 00:27:43,030 envelope under the table to get a job, 745 00:27:43,410 --> 00:27:45,630 or at least not when there is something 746 00:27:45,630 --> 00:27:46,630 publicly involved. 747 00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:50,270 No, it's incredibly naive to think that there 748 00:27:50,270 --> 00:27:52,650 is corruption everywhere, was the answer from the 749 00:27:52,650 --> 00:27:52,750 Ukrainian. 750 00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:55,010 And I agree that there is a lot 751 00:27:55,010 --> 00:27:57,970 of weirdness in Norway, but the corruption, what 752 00:27:57,970 --> 00:28:01,110 I would classify as corruption, goes through Stortinget. 753 00:28:01,850 --> 00:28:05,890 Like, you have elected people from, take Einar 754 00:28:05,890 --> 00:28:08,370 Førde, who gets his own statue back. 755 00:28:08,750 --> 00:28:11,150 No, sorry, not Førde, I'm thinking of Opset. 756 00:28:12,130 --> 00:28:14,650 A minister of society who has traveled to 757 00:28:14,650 --> 00:28:17,170 Stortinget and brought home the goodies, right? 758 00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:19,530 And gets the statue rebuilt, because there have 759 00:28:19,530 --> 00:28:20,190 been so many motorways. 760 00:28:20,810 --> 00:28:22,550 And it should be like this, yes, this 761 00:28:22,550 --> 00:28:25,050 is legal corruption if you want, but it 762 00:28:25,050 --> 00:28:28,490 is a corrupt intention, or something like that, 763 00:28:28,610 --> 00:28:29,530 at least in my opinion. 764 00:28:30,430 --> 00:28:37,210 But such servants who sell themselves, I have 765 00:28:37,210 --> 00:28:39,050 to admit that I have never seen that. 766 00:28:39,370 --> 00:28:42,510 No, it is something less, there is something 767 00:28:42,510 --> 00:28:44,690 of it, I have seen some examples of 768 00:28:44,690 --> 00:28:47,390 it, on some people in the municipal office 769 00:28:47,910 --> 00:28:49,810 who have received money in order to build 770 00:28:49,810 --> 00:28:51,530 houses, there has been something of it. 771 00:28:51,530 --> 00:28:54,150 And then you had some, were there some 772 00:28:54,150 --> 00:28:55,810 who allowed themselves to be corrupted in relation 773 00:28:55,810 --> 00:28:58,170 to some purchase agreements for some buses a 774 00:28:58,170 --> 00:28:58,570 few years ago? 775 00:28:58,890 --> 00:29:01,150 That was also cash in hand in order 776 00:29:01,150 --> 00:29:03,130 to justify their death, right? 777 00:29:03,450 --> 00:29:06,950 I'm sure such things happen, but every time 778 00:29:06,950 --> 00:29:08,870 something like this is revealed, it is so 779 00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:10,190 embarrassing and career-destroying. 780 00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:10,830 Yes. 781 00:29:11,470 --> 00:29:11,650 Right? 782 00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:14,450 It was just such a trivial matter, but 783 00:29:14,450 --> 00:29:17,570 it was something about moss, or the sun, 784 00:29:17,710 --> 00:29:18,190 or something like that. 785 00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:19,370 Was there one guy who was going to 786 00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:21,150 have something, I don't know, build something, or 787 00:29:21,150 --> 00:29:22,170 something like that. 788 00:29:22,350 --> 00:29:24,130 And then there was a friend of, I 789 00:29:24,130 --> 00:29:26,070 think it was Valgjer Svarstad Haugland, or something 790 00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:28,070 like that, and then Valgjer got involved and 791 00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:30,530 called the municipality, or did something like, you 792 00:29:30,530 --> 00:29:32,490 know who I am, and then it comes 793 00:29:32,490 --> 00:29:34,510 out as a public matter, and it's like, 794 00:29:35,770 --> 00:29:37,530 you don't have many legs to stand on, 795 00:29:37,650 --> 00:29:38,590 as Valgjer did. 796 00:29:38,770 --> 00:29:39,110 No, no. 797 00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:40,530 And then the case was so small that 798 00:29:40,530 --> 00:29:41,910 I don't think you got any major consequences, 799 00:29:42,090 --> 00:29:42,910 or something like that, but it was like, 800 00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:43,750 this is... 801 00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:46,190 You get sanctioned very early in such a 802 00:29:46,190 --> 00:29:46,450 process. 803 00:29:46,730 --> 00:29:46,910 Yes. 804 00:29:46,910 --> 00:29:49,070 It has consequences, quickly. 805 00:29:50,010 --> 00:29:51,130 It does, and it should have. 806 00:29:51,530 --> 00:29:54,650 And it's like, in those areas I think 807 00:29:54,650 --> 00:29:57,650 Norway works quite well, because I think far 808 00:29:57,650 --> 00:29:59,470 more people have so little lead in their 809 00:29:59,470 --> 00:30:02,430 hands, over such power elites, that when someone 810 00:30:02,430 --> 00:30:04,130 comes and tries to deal with the moss 811 00:30:04,130 --> 00:30:06,670 like that, then it's quite a short way 812 00:30:06,670 --> 00:30:07,330 to calling the municipality. 813 00:30:07,730 --> 00:30:10,090 And then everyone is set on that if 814 00:30:10,090 --> 00:30:12,490 that actually happened, then it should be on 815 00:30:12,490 --> 00:30:12,810 the front page. 816 00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:13,270 Yes. 817 00:30:14,090 --> 00:30:17,190 Then we should, you should be allowed to 818 00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:17,730 eat that. 819 00:30:17,930 --> 00:30:19,110 You should be allowed to lie in that 820 00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:20,130 bed when you first set it up. 821 00:30:20,350 --> 00:30:24,550 Yes, and it's like, what is this former 822 00:30:24,550 --> 00:30:28,830 party leader who had some sort of outhouse 823 00:30:28,830 --> 00:30:30,590 that she hadn't built an apartment for, and 824 00:30:30,590 --> 00:30:33,330 it's like, the smallest and biggest, what is 825 00:30:33,330 --> 00:30:33,650 she now? 826 00:30:35,330 --> 00:30:37,310 She is the minister who had built the 827 00:30:37,310 --> 00:30:37,870 beach area. 828 00:30:38,190 --> 00:30:40,690 Yes, demolished an outhouse to build a cabin. 829 00:30:41,230 --> 00:30:44,350 And it's like, she got permission, while no 830 00:30:44,350 --> 00:30:45,070 one else got it, right? 831 00:30:45,770 --> 00:30:45,870 Yes. 832 00:30:45,870 --> 00:30:49,950 And that is corruption in one way or 833 00:30:49,950 --> 00:30:50,310 another indirectly. 834 00:30:50,730 --> 00:30:53,430 But then it's also criticized, it's brought up 835 00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:55,510 in the media, it's an embarrassing thing. 836 00:30:57,230 --> 00:30:58,890 You are allowed to eat it. 837 00:30:59,190 --> 00:31:02,490 Yes, and it's like, even smuggling, if it 838 00:31:02,490 --> 00:31:03,570 is revealed, it comes up. 839 00:31:04,730 --> 00:31:07,670 And I also think the risk of being 840 00:31:07,670 --> 00:31:08,890 explicitly corrupt in Norway. 841 00:31:09,670 --> 00:31:11,790 I know for myself that if I had 842 00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:13,590 been exposed to it, sent a building application 843 00:31:13,590 --> 00:31:16,430 or something, and then a bureaucrat calls back 844 00:31:16,430 --> 00:31:18,730 and says, if I get 4000 kroner on 845 00:31:18,730 --> 00:31:20,870 this account, then that building application can go 846 00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:21,110 faster. 847 00:31:21,450 --> 00:31:23,350 It's almost a bit strange that it doesn't 848 00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:26,630 happen in some way, that some bureaucrats in 849 00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:31,330 Oslo get money to actually do their job 850 00:31:31,330 --> 00:31:31,930 a little faster. 851 00:31:32,450 --> 00:31:35,270 But I just think, if I had gotten 852 00:31:35,270 --> 00:31:36,970 that offer, then I would have put on 853 00:31:36,970 --> 00:31:38,970 and not talked to this bureaucrat again, sometime, 854 00:31:39,210 --> 00:31:40,110 but I would have gone to the media 855 00:31:40,110 --> 00:31:42,110 and said that there is a corrupt bureaucrat. 856 00:31:42,570 --> 00:31:43,990 It is completely unacceptable. 857 00:31:44,730 --> 00:31:47,210 And it would have been like this, in 858 00:31:47,210 --> 00:31:51,010 my head, completely, nothing can rest before this 859 00:31:51,010 --> 00:31:51,670 four-night strike. 860 00:31:52,110 --> 00:31:53,310 And we have strict rules. 861 00:31:53,650 --> 00:31:55,130 And would it have gone the other way? 862 00:31:55,630 --> 00:31:57,430 If I had said, you can get 10 863 00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:59,570 ,000 kroner in your hand to rush to 864 00:31:59,570 --> 00:32:02,810 build my application, then my expectation would have 865 00:32:02,810 --> 00:32:04,850 been that this bureaucrat would have called me. 866 00:32:05,210 --> 00:32:06,510 Yes, like that. 867 00:32:06,750 --> 00:32:08,210 And there is something about when you have 868 00:32:08,210 --> 00:32:12,750 built a social structure that is trendy there. 869 00:32:12,910 --> 00:32:14,690 And now I'm just talking from my own 870 00:32:14,690 --> 00:32:17,010 point of view, then I think there is 871 00:32:17,010 --> 00:32:17,690 little corruption. 872 00:32:20,330 --> 00:32:22,770 We have some people from Bergen municipality who 873 00:32:22,770 --> 00:32:24,030 go in there, one of these guys who 874 00:32:24,030 --> 00:32:25,390 comes in, he is a very nice guy, 875 00:32:25,650 --> 00:32:27,810 and he says, I am corrupt, because I 876 00:32:27,810 --> 00:32:28,390 want coffee. 877 00:32:29,310 --> 00:32:29,410 Yes. 878 00:32:30,890 --> 00:32:33,270 And it is trendy so far, but corruption 879 00:32:33,270 --> 00:32:33,570 is spreading. 880 00:32:34,070 --> 00:32:35,810 Yes, and according to Norwegian rules, it can 881 00:32:35,810 --> 00:32:36,770 still be corruption. 882 00:32:36,770 --> 00:32:39,070 Yes, he said, I think it's okay to 883 00:32:39,070 --> 00:32:39,930 get a cup of coffee when you come 884 00:32:39,930 --> 00:32:40,550 into the office. 885 00:32:41,470 --> 00:32:43,830 And he was a very nice guy. 886 00:32:44,210 --> 00:32:46,690 And then there was one of the guys 887 00:32:46,690 --> 00:32:49,190 who said, we're going out to eat and 888 00:32:49,190 --> 00:32:50,910 have a few beers today, are you coming? 889 00:32:51,210 --> 00:32:51,910 I can't. 890 00:32:52,210 --> 00:32:53,030 I'm not allowed to. 891 00:32:53,230 --> 00:32:54,690 There are clear rules for it. 892 00:32:54,830 --> 00:32:55,630 And it makes sense. 893 00:32:55,970 --> 00:32:57,110 Yes, it makes sense. 894 00:32:57,410 --> 00:32:58,230 So I don't think it would have had 895 00:32:58,230 --> 00:33:00,670 any special effect in that way. 896 00:33:02,050 --> 00:33:03,770 But I don't think it would have played 897 00:33:03,770 --> 00:33:06,090 any role if he got, it wouldn't have 898 00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:07,810 affected his work, but it's just like he 899 00:33:07,810 --> 00:33:09,610 has set the line so that he won't 900 00:33:09,610 --> 00:33:10,890 get the opportunity to do it. 901 00:33:11,290 --> 00:33:17,210 Yes, and perhaps the most highly profiled such 902 00:33:17,210 --> 00:33:20,570 type-related case, is perhaps the Tønne case. 903 00:33:21,150 --> 00:33:21,290 Yes. 904 00:33:21,670 --> 00:33:28,250 Which Tore Tønne, former prime minister, who took 905 00:33:28,250 --> 00:33:31,710 his own life after being dismissed or suspected 906 00:33:31,710 --> 00:33:33,230 of being corrupt. 907 00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:36,170 Because he had received a follow-up payment 908 00:33:36,170 --> 00:33:37,750 from Stortinget, which he had a claim to, 909 00:33:38,110 --> 00:33:41,330 but also received some money from some smuggling 910 00:33:41,330 --> 00:33:41,790 company. 911 00:33:42,130 --> 00:33:45,750 Via a well-known lawyer's association. 912 00:33:46,050 --> 00:33:46,970 Via Bara. 913 00:33:47,270 --> 00:33:47,470 Yes. 914 00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:52,950 And I think there is a certain degree 915 00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:54,550 of corruption on his private hands, and there 916 00:33:54,550 --> 00:33:57,250 it is he, the Bara lawyer who proposed 917 00:33:57,250 --> 00:33:58,630 this, Eriksen. 918 00:33:58,830 --> 00:33:59,550 Yes, something like that. 919 00:33:59,870 --> 00:34:00,930 Yes, or whatever his name is. 920 00:34:00,930 --> 00:34:05,090 He couldn't be a lawyer, but he could 921 00:34:05,090 --> 00:34:07,610 become a director in the Aker system in 922 00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:07,810 Røkke. 923 00:34:08,110 --> 00:34:08,670 Yes, that worked. 924 00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:10,389 So... 925 00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:12,429 The question is, was that corruption, or was 926 00:34:12,429 --> 00:34:14,850 it like, you helped me with this, and 927 00:34:14,850 --> 00:34:16,850 it cost you, so then you get... 928 00:34:16,850 --> 00:34:20,530 Then I cover your back, because you did 929 00:34:20,530 --> 00:34:21,150 the job for me. 930 00:34:22,150 --> 00:34:24,830 But as a public servant in Norway, as 931 00:34:24,830 --> 00:34:28,030 Tore Tønne was, and when those suspicions are 932 00:34:28,030 --> 00:34:30,330 cast on you, and they hit hard, then 933 00:34:30,330 --> 00:34:33,690 it's to the extent that you can't hold 934 00:34:33,690 --> 00:34:35,070 out, that you get in the car and 935 00:34:35,070 --> 00:34:35,310 take your life. 936 00:34:35,650 --> 00:34:38,150 And that led to a discussion about media 937 00:34:38,150 --> 00:34:39,810 coverage, and respect for ordinary people, and all 938 00:34:39,810 --> 00:34:43,070 that, but it also shows how strong that 939 00:34:43,070 --> 00:34:45,969 culture is, for not breaking the rules. 940 00:34:46,270 --> 00:34:51,090 I've heard some call it conspiratorial thought, just 941 00:34:51,090 --> 00:34:55,310 like Tønne, and how he got help, or 942 00:34:55,310 --> 00:34:56,830 not, to just that. 943 00:34:57,070 --> 00:34:58,910 And there are many... 944 00:34:58,910 --> 00:35:00,190 There are many who think it's very strange 945 00:35:00,190 --> 00:35:03,130 that such a guy had a gun, in 946 00:35:03,130 --> 00:35:03,530 the first place. 947 00:35:04,690 --> 00:35:05,550 Was it a gun? 948 00:35:05,730 --> 00:35:07,470 I thought it was an Exos, was it? 949 00:35:07,550 --> 00:35:09,790 No, it was a soldier, who shot himself 950 00:35:09,790 --> 00:35:11,010 in a car, in a rest area. 951 00:35:11,390 --> 00:35:11,690 Yes, okay. 952 00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:13,370 I don't think it's hard to get a 953 00:35:13,370 --> 00:35:14,550 gun, if you want one. 954 00:35:14,890 --> 00:35:15,590 No, I don't think so. 955 00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:17,330 But, okay. 956 00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:22,450 Sad thing, but it illustrates some of the 957 00:35:22,450 --> 00:35:24,990 attitudes to corruption in Norway. 958 00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:25,310 Yes. 959 00:35:25,570 --> 00:35:29,390 We talked about alliances, and it's not just 960 00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:31,450 free and democratic countries that make alliances. 961 00:35:32,210 --> 00:35:35,450 No, it happens that other countries do too, 962 00:35:35,630 --> 00:35:38,110 like Russia, North Korea, for example. 963 00:35:38,450 --> 00:35:40,410 Yes, and the eternal friendship with China. 964 00:35:40,990 --> 00:35:41,170 Yes. 965 00:35:42,190 --> 00:35:44,810 And then there is a group in West 966 00:35:44,810 --> 00:35:47,390 Africa, who have found out that they are 967 00:35:47,390 --> 00:35:51,050 going to have a so-called Sahel alliance, 968 00:35:51,650 --> 00:35:55,210 where the military junta in Mali, as well 969 00:35:55,210 --> 00:35:58,210 as in Niger and Burkina Faso, are strengthening 970 00:35:58,210 --> 00:35:58,950 their cooperation. 971 00:35:59,790 --> 00:36:02,190 Then they come up with many good ideas, 972 00:36:03,610 --> 00:36:06,250 which are actually a bit recognizable here in 973 00:36:06,250 --> 00:36:06,450 Norway. 974 00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:11,450 Biometric ID cards, common currency, and therefore, to 975 00:36:11,450 --> 00:36:14,650 cut off the bonds to colony France. 976 00:36:15,250 --> 00:36:16,950 They have colony currency. 977 00:36:17,370 --> 00:36:20,290 Yes, France is trying to boost the currency 978 00:36:20,290 --> 00:36:20,970 they can use. 979 00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:21,390 Yes. 980 00:36:21,950 --> 00:36:23,090 And I understand that they are a little 981 00:36:23,090 --> 00:36:23,530 annoyed by that. 982 00:36:23,530 --> 00:36:26,090 Yes, it is quite reasonable to do just 983 00:36:26,090 --> 00:36:26,450 that. 984 00:36:26,750 --> 00:36:27,610 There is another one who is a little 985 00:36:27,610 --> 00:36:28,090 annoyed by that. 986 00:36:29,410 --> 00:36:32,070 It is Mrs. Meloni in Italy. 987 00:36:32,530 --> 00:36:32,790 Yes. 988 00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:37,550 She is chopping pretty hard and engaged in 989 00:36:37,550 --> 00:36:40,050 Macron for his colonialism. 990 00:36:41,230 --> 00:36:41,430 Yes. 991 00:36:42,270 --> 00:36:44,290 Meloni has actually come to the conclusion that 992 00:36:44,290 --> 00:36:45,890 it is time to sell all the gold, 993 00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:49,150 or give all the gold the Italians have 994 00:36:49,150 --> 00:36:50,010 to the Italians. 995 00:36:50,370 --> 00:36:50,930 Yes, also. 996 00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:55,210 Which is, because they have a gold reserve 997 00:36:55,210 --> 00:36:55,870 for what? 998 00:36:56,350 --> 00:36:56,870 150? 999 00:36:57,410 --> 00:36:59,410 Yes, one of the world's largest, I think. 1000 00:36:59,690 --> 00:37:03,910 Yes, 150 billion euros or something like that. 1001 00:37:04,030 --> 00:37:06,790 It must be a significant gold reserve. 1002 00:37:07,130 --> 00:37:08,050 But what are they going to do with 1003 00:37:08,050 --> 00:37:09,350 it when they have run out of euros? 1004 00:37:10,070 --> 00:37:13,590 No, there is something with, they have a 1005 00:37:13,590 --> 00:37:17,610 significant state debt, which they could easily get 1006 00:37:17,610 --> 00:37:17,870 rid of. 1007 00:37:17,870 --> 00:37:21,690 I would have thought that when you get 1008 00:37:21,690 --> 00:37:23,250 rid of your state debt, you have to 1009 00:37:23,250 --> 00:37:24,670 take care of it by making a high 1010 00:37:24,670 --> 00:37:26,270 -profile promise to each other that we will 1011 00:37:26,270 --> 00:37:27,570 not enter such a state debt again. 1012 00:37:28,430 --> 00:37:30,550 So a constitutional amendment with that it is 1013 00:37:30,550 --> 00:37:31,430 actually not allowed. 1014 00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:34,470 Such early politicians cannot put us in a 1015 00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:36,970 new state debt without a clear plan of 1016 00:37:36,970 --> 00:37:40,930 payment and no reason to fund more debt 1017 00:37:40,930 --> 00:37:41,370 the next time. 1018 00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:44,070 You understand that you sometimes need credit. 1019 00:37:44,410 --> 00:37:45,290 You're going to rust up, or you're going 1020 00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:45,690 to do something. 1021 00:37:45,970 --> 00:37:48,290 But then you have to have built a 1022 00:37:48,290 --> 00:37:50,070 room to enter that credit. 1023 00:37:50,430 --> 00:37:51,390 And then you have to have some kind 1024 00:37:51,390 --> 00:37:52,730 of rule that says that when you first 1025 00:37:52,730 --> 00:37:53,890 do that, you have chosen. 1026 00:37:54,250 --> 00:37:55,950 Then you can not choose more credit for 1027 00:37:55,950 --> 00:37:57,050 new things afterwards. 1028 00:37:57,350 --> 00:37:58,350 Then you have to pay it down first 1029 00:37:58,350 --> 00:37:58,910 and so on. 1030 00:37:59,030 --> 00:38:00,330 And who knows. 1031 00:38:00,830 --> 00:38:02,830 Now it's a bit like what they have 1032 00:38:02,830 --> 00:38:04,050 in the US, where they have a VAT 1033 00:38:04,050 --> 00:38:04,430 bond. 1034 00:38:04,730 --> 00:38:06,290 It's just that they can vote for it 1035 00:38:06,290 --> 00:38:08,290 and lift that bond after a while. 1036 00:38:08,690 --> 00:38:11,010 That bond in the US is some of 1037 00:38:11,010 --> 00:38:11,630 the stupidest. 1038 00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:12,070 Yes. 1039 00:38:14,030 --> 00:38:14,470 It's... 1040 00:38:14,470 --> 00:38:16,430 Should we have a little more fire? 1041 00:38:16,530 --> 00:38:17,250 Yes, we do not have a law. 1042 00:38:17,370 --> 00:38:20,110 Yes, but we just move and change that 1043 00:38:20,110 --> 00:38:21,670 law for the last time. 1044 00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:23,590 Because we do this every year. 1045 00:38:23,950 --> 00:38:24,790 A very strange thing. 1046 00:38:25,850 --> 00:38:29,870 It is to that extent this Sahel alliance 1047 00:38:29,870 --> 00:38:31,010 gets some coverage in general. 1048 00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:33,450 Then there is coverage that says here are 1049 00:38:33,450 --> 00:38:38,070 some dictatorships that go together and form a 1050 00:38:38,070 --> 00:38:39,090 evil axis. 1051 00:38:39,430 --> 00:38:40,250 And that's fine. 1052 00:38:40,690 --> 00:38:41,190 Because it is. 1053 00:38:41,190 --> 00:38:42,430 Yes, it is. 1054 00:38:43,870 --> 00:38:46,130 It's shit whole countries, no doubt. 1055 00:38:46,490 --> 00:38:48,290 But I have to say, I hear a 1056 00:38:48,290 --> 00:38:51,690 little about French colonialism from others than Meloni. 1057 00:38:53,290 --> 00:38:55,210 It's not so much fun to talk about. 1058 00:38:55,670 --> 00:38:56,590 No, it does not seem so. 1059 00:38:57,690 --> 00:39:00,070 The thing is, what happens is that these 1060 00:39:00,070 --> 00:39:02,470 countries have a valid argument here, right? 1061 00:39:03,170 --> 00:39:05,790 They have a valid case when they say 1062 00:39:05,790 --> 00:39:07,610 that we do not want to fall under 1063 00:39:07,610 --> 00:39:10,190 French equality, we will in a way decide 1064 00:39:10,190 --> 00:39:10,490 for ourselves. 1065 00:39:11,550 --> 00:39:14,550 And that is a problem that they are 1066 00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:14,830 dictators. 1067 00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:17,710 Yes, and if I know the country in 1068 00:39:17,710 --> 00:39:20,330 that area correctly, then I do not think 1069 00:39:20,330 --> 00:39:22,750 they will do better on their own currency 1070 00:39:22,750 --> 00:39:23,750 than with the French. 1071 00:39:23,890 --> 00:39:26,350 So you can understand a French perspective in 1072 00:39:26,350 --> 00:39:28,690 that too, that the French are responsible, but 1073 00:39:28,690 --> 00:39:30,350 still better than ... 1074 00:39:30,350 --> 00:39:31,170 Irresponsible dictators. 1075 00:39:31,730 --> 00:39:31,930 Yes. 1076 00:39:32,130 --> 00:39:33,430 Yes, by all means. 1077 00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:36,030 And it's a bit ironic that you say 1078 00:39:36,030 --> 00:39:37,290 that there you want to get away from 1079 00:39:37,290 --> 00:39:40,830 the French currency, because we will decide for 1080 00:39:40,830 --> 00:39:43,390 ourselves, while in Argentina they say we would 1081 00:39:43,390 --> 00:39:44,710 very much like to be in a dollar 1082 00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:45,130 economy. 1083 00:39:47,350 --> 00:39:49,830 Because having our own currency does not seem 1084 00:39:49,830 --> 00:39:50,710 to be so good. 1085 00:39:51,050 --> 00:39:52,870 No, Argentina is a little further down the 1086 00:39:52,870 --> 00:39:54,910 street on having their own currency. 1087 00:39:55,170 --> 00:39:55,530 Yes. 1088 00:39:57,790 --> 00:39:59,010 So we'll see. 1089 00:39:59,230 --> 00:40:00,470 It does not look like there will be 1090 00:40:00,470 --> 00:40:04,590 a very immediate dollarization of Argentina yet. 1091 00:40:04,990 --> 00:40:07,030 But everyone knew that it would take some 1092 00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:08,150 time if you were to go there. 1093 00:40:08,250 --> 00:40:09,830 So we'll see what Millet gets. 1094 00:40:10,350 --> 00:40:14,470 But it is obviously an element of such 1095 00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:19,710 sovereignty in this new alliance in Africa. 1096 00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:23,110 And it is partly understandable, partly sad that 1097 00:40:23,110 --> 00:40:25,510 they are dictators, but a little difficult to 1098 00:40:25,510 --> 00:40:26,070 make a point of. 1099 00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:30,370 I have the impression that this French dominance 1100 00:40:30,370 --> 00:40:33,330 of the currency is quite lucrative for France. 1101 00:40:33,330 --> 00:40:34,990 There must be a reason why they do 1102 00:40:34,990 --> 00:40:35,090 it. 1103 00:40:37,250 --> 00:40:39,030 France must also take some money so that 1104 00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:41,930 they can make themselves more of a state. 1105 00:40:42,430 --> 00:40:42,870 Yes. 1106 00:40:43,330 --> 00:40:44,810 So we'll see. 1107 00:40:45,130 --> 00:40:47,230 But there is very little journalism on it. 1108 00:40:47,490 --> 00:40:49,870 And I could have actually thought to read 1109 00:40:49,870 --> 00:40:52,070 more about it, to understand more about it, 1110 00:40:52,130 --> 00:40:54,510 because the only place I pick up something 1111 00:40:54,510 --> 00:40:57,410 about it is in these speeches to Meloni. 1112 00:40:57,830 --> 00:41:01,650 And possibly she has cleaned Meli Bosen, but 1113 00:41:01,650 --> 00:41:05,530 they are also so rhetorically strong, i.e. 1114 00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:09,930 controversial, that they are perhaps more characterized by 1115 00:41:09,930 --> 00:41:13,430 being a rivalry with France and a criticism 1116 00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:13,810 of Macron. 1117 00:41:14,210 --> 00:41:15,810 So it can happen, there are some people 1118 00:41:15,810 --> 00:41:16,830 who are exposed here and there. 1119 00:41:16,990 --> 00:41:19,190 So I do not know what is really 1120 00:41:19,190 --> 00:41:19,750 true there. 1121 00:41:19,870 --> 00:41:20,830 I have not understood the system. 1122 00:41:21,170 --> 00:41:23,250 It may be that she just thinks that 1123 00:41:23,250 --> 00:41:26,090 the more I push for Macron, the greater 1124 00:41:26,090 --> 00:41:28,210 the chance it is that they get a 1125 00:41:28,210 --> 00:41:30,050 new election and get a new political leadership 1126 00:41:30,050 --> 00:41:30,690 or something like that. 1127 00:41:31,250 --> 00:41:33,890 And it is obviously politically favorable for Meloni, 1128 00:41:34,110 --> 00:41:36,010 so you should not take too good a 1129 00:41:36,010 --> 00:41:36,790 fish from what comes from there. 1130 00:41:37,630 --> 00:41:45,430 Or on the international arena, there is this 1131 00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:51,090 Project 2025, which was the painting for Trump's 1132 00:41:51,090 --> 00:41:54,090 second presidential term, according to some. 1133 00:41:54,530 --> 00:41:54,870 Yes. 1134 00:41:55,470 --> 00:41:58,150 It was such conservative environments that had put 1135 00:41:58,150 --> 00:42:00,330 together a plan to make it more effective 1136 00:42:00,330 --> 00:42:01,870 to get rid of what you should have 1137 00:42:01,870 --> 00:42:03,930 done in the four years you have. 1138 00:42:04,450 --> 00:42:09,630 There is an element that, yes, we can 1139 00:42:09,630 --> 00:42:11,490 read it more or less incorrectly. 1140 00:42:11,950 --> 00:42:15,270 We won't let anyone stop the US from 1141 00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:16,930 using our oil and gas. 1142 00:42:17,630 --> 00:42:19,630 And the US is now for the first 1143 00:42:19,630 --> 00:42:23,390 time energy-independent, which means that they care 1144 00:42:23,390 --> 00:42:25,570 much less about the Middle East than they 1145 00:42:25,570 --> 00:42:25,730 did. 1146 00:42:25,730 --> 00:42:28,710 And at the same time, there is a 1147 00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:31,790 pretty clear contrast to Norwegian energy policy. 1148 00:42:32,290 --> 00:42:35,870 Yes, here we have a very, very solid 1149 00:42:35,870 --> 00:42:38,110 energy-independent, and that should be completely black 1150 00:42:38,110 --> 00:42:38,330 and white. 1151 00:42:38,690 --> 00:42:38,810 Yes. 1152 00:42:40,270 --> 00:42:42,290 And there we have come a long way, 1153 00:42:42,430 --> 00:42:42,590 boy. 1154 00:42:43,050 --> 00:42:45,250 It's amazing what the politicians get when they 1155 00:42:45,250 --> 00:42:46,990 just put their minds to it. 1156 00:42:47,610 --> 00:42:51,410 Yes, or are we? 1157 00:42:52,270 --> 00:42:53,550 It's a question of who you ask. 1158 00:42:53,550 --> 00:42:54,830 If you ask anyone in MDG, they had 1159 00:42:54,830 --> 00:42:57,150 a huge victory in this state budget. 1160 00:42:57,630 --> 00:43:00,090 And if you ask the Labour Party people, 1161 00:43:00,310 --> 00:43:01,050 they say no. 1162 00:43:02,330 --> 00:43:04,450 What I know means that we will continue 1163 00:43:04,450 --> 00:43:08,570 to build out and perform for more oil 1164 00:43:08,570 --> 00:43:11,190 and gas production in Norway in the coming 1165 00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:11,390 years. 1166 00:43:12,170 --> 00:43:14,690 I suspect that the MDG line has just 1167 00:43:14,690 --> 00:43:18,910 killed itself now, because it is so unrealistic 1168 00:43:18,910 --> 00:43:22,330 and little connected to reality that there is 1169 00:43:22,330 --> 00:43:24,510 such a critical mass that does not care 1170 00:43:24,510 --> 00:43:24,830 anymore. 1171 00:43:26,430 --> 00:43:28,430 And now they are starting to get ... 1172 00:43:28,430 --> 00:43:30,510 I think that what first and foremost makes 1173 00:43:30,510 --> 00:43:32,270 this change, is that we are starting to 1174 00:43:32,270 --> 00:43:35,790 get a proper, good, professional opposition, don't you 1175 00:43:35,790 --> 00:43:35,890 think? 1176 00:43:36,170 --> 00:43:38,150 You have such sailors, and you have several 1177 00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:41,250 others who relate to the reality on the 1178 00:43:41,250 --> 00:43:42,310 ground, as we call it. 1179 00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:45,870 This is what reality is like, and then 1180 00:43:45,870 --> 00:43:48,110 you can fantasize that you have to create 1181 00:43:48,110 --> 00:43:49,950 a new reality, but it is not realistic. 1182 00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:54,310 Okay, we can make some weird statements that 1183 00:43:54,310 --> 00:43:56,110 you do not understand yourself, and other than 1184 00:43:56,110 --> 00:43:58,970 that, it will be as it will be. 1185 00:43:59,090 --> 00:44:00,490 We're going to do oil and gas, and 1186 00:44:00,490 --> 00:44:01,190 we're going to expand it. 1187 00:44:01,330 --> 00:44:01,510 Done. 1188 00:44:01,950 --> 00:44:03,830 It is quite obvious. 1189 00:44:04,110 --> 00:44:07,510 And when we talk about this geopolitical shift, 1190 00:44:08,590 --> 00:44:14,250 we are obviously entering an era of more 1191 00:44:14,250 --> 00:44:15,730 real political orientation. 1192 00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:19,390 And then there is hard power and not 1193 00:44:19,390 --> 00:44:20,070 soft power. 1194 00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:25,990 And minus nuclear bombs and military material, energy 1195 00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:28,810 is the main form of hard power, because 1196 00:44:28,810 --> 00:44:30,190 it is what you use for all kinds 1197 00:44:30,190 --> 00:44:30,390 of values. 1198 00:44:31,070 --> 00:44:33,030 I was about to say, very good climate 1199 00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:36,570 policy, would be that instead of delivering 35 1200 00:44:36,570 --> 00:44:38,110 % of the gas to Europe, Norway delivered 1201 00:44:38,110 --> 00:44:40,370 65% at the expense of Russian gas. 1202 00:44:40,650 --> 00:44:43,010 Yes, it must be relatively obvious. 1203 00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:46,550 It would have been very good climate policy, 1204 00:44:46,670 --> 00:44:48,270 because then the Russians would have lost the 1205 00:44:48,270 --> 00:44:49,030 war much faster. 1206 00:44:49,610 --> 00:44:51,550 And when they lose the war, it is 1207 00:44:51,550 --> 00:44:53,810 very bad for the climate to wage war 1208 00:44:53,810 --> 00:44:54,970 there, at least I think so. 1209 00:44:56,090 --> 00:44:57,790 They use a lot of energy to expand 1210 00:44:57,790 --> 00:44:58,330 values. 1211 00:44:58,510 --> 00:45:01,050 There has never been anything particularly good for 1212 00:45:01,050 --> 00:45:02,490 either economy or expansion. 1213 00:45:03,090 --> 00:45:04,970 No, the climate impact of the war is 1214 00:45:04,970 --> 00:45:05,510 quite significant. 1215 00:45:05,830 --> 00:45:05,930 Yes. 1216 00:45:06,950 --> 00:45:10,050 And that's what the type MDG and the 1217 00:45:10,050 --> 00:45:10,410 left have to do. 1218 00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:15,230 They have no problem looking past the climate 1219 00:45:15,230 --> 00:45:16,190 impact of the war. 1220 00:45:16,190 --> 00:45:17,890 No, they can actually do that. 1221 00:45:17,950 --> 00:45:21,170 When they are completely unambiguous in their support 1222 00:45:21,170 --> 00:45:21,750 for Ukraine. 1223 00:45:22,170 --> 00:45:23,830 And they should actually have that. 1224 00:45:24,970 --> 00:45:26,550 But at the same time, they want to 1225 00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:29,130 put in place a system where Europe is 1226 00:45:29,130 --> 00:45:31,730 more likely to be displaced by Russia than 1227 00:45:31,730 --> 00:45:33,510 by Norway on oil and gas. 1228 00:45:34,190 --> 00:45:35,410 And that is a self-evident, I think. 1229 00:45:35,730 --> 00:45:38,950 Yes, there is little connection in the halls 1230 00:45:38,950 --> 00:45:40,530 of politics there. 1231 00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:45,590 But I think the reality orientation that is 1232 00:45:45,590 --> 00:45:47,150 coming in the next few years, now that 1233 00:45:47,150 --> 00:45:48,790 you have that critical mass that is starting 1234 00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:51,930 to see, what should I say, the silver 1235 00:45:51,930 --> 00:45:55,290 lining, see symbolic politics for what it is 1236 00:45:55,290 --> 00:45:58,070 and real politics for what it is, then 1237 00:45:58,070 --> 00:46:00,730 I think you have to move very clearly 1238 00:46:00,730 --> 00:46:05,510 that we cannot risk an unstable energy network. 1239 00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:06,370 It does not work. 1240 00:46:06,730 --> 00:46:08,910 You have to have energy surplus to be 1241 00:46:08,910 --> 00:46:10,270 able to build new industries and to be 1242 00:46:10,270 --> 00:46:11,170 able to run the industry. 1243 00:46:11,490 --> 00:46:12,830 And all of it has to be competitive. 1244 00:46:13,730 --> 00:46:15,650 And Europe has to build itself up. 1245 00:46:17,390 --> 00:46:20,190 Europe has now built itself down over many 1246 00:46:20,190 --> 00:46:20,410 years. 1247 00:46:20,570 --> 00:46:21,790 You just have to turn that tree. 1248 00:46:21,930 --> 00:46:22,590 And what do you need then? 1249 00:46:22,710 --> 00:46:24,350 You need more energy so that the energy 1250 00:46:24,350 --> 00:46:25,050 becomes cheaper. 1251 00:46:25,490 --> 00:46:30,590 Yes, and you need very clear strategic autonomy. 1252 00:46:30,970 --> 00:46:32,410 And there you have to step back a 1253 00:46:32,410 --> 00:46:32,890 little from France. 1254 00:46:33,370 --> 00:46:35,730 They have always been very concerned about that. 1255 00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:39,910 So they have their, they see Rafale fighter 1256 00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:41,510 planes and their own nuclear weapons and everything. 1257 00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:44,250 Everything produced in France on the French production 1258 00:46:44,250 --> 00:46:45,830 line with French supply chains. 1259 00:46:46,970 --> 00:46:49,330 Not all the way, but as far as 1260 00:46:49,330 --> 00:46:49,930 practical, right? 1261 00:46:50,250 --> 00:46:52,290 And they build their own submarines and engage 1262 00:46:52,290 --> 00:46:52,910 in everything possible. 1263 00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:55,890 And it is not rational in the big 1264 00:46:55,890 --> 00:46:56,750 picture, because it costs. 1265 00:46:57,250 --> 00:47:00,990 But when you now build these alliances, we 1266 00:47:00,990 --> 00:47:02,450 are talking about the Nordic countries, Great Britain, 1267 00:47:02,930 --> 00:47:04,630 and certainly the Netherlands, Germany and Poland. 1268 00:47:05,010 --> 00:47:07,830 And that the supply chain is built up 1269 00:47:07,830 --> 00:47:12,190 within the alliance structures that make sense on 1270 00:47:12,190 --> 00:47:12,410 the ground. 1271 00:47:12,790 --> 00:47:18,970 So I think that energy policy issue will 1272 00:47:18,970 --> 00:47:21,370 also be brought into a clearer light pretty 1273 00:47:21,370 --> 00:47:21,710 soon. 1274 00:47:21,930 --> 00:47:24,210 Because it is so strategically important. 1275 00:47:24,690 --> 00:47:25,070 How do I see it? 1276 00:47:25,390 --> 00:47:27,830 Energy, if you have like, I think if 1277 00:47:27,830 --> 00:47:29,230 you have all the pillars for what is 1278 00:47:29,230 --> 00:47:33,870 needed for a good society, property rights, freedom 1279 00:47:33,870 --> 00:47:36,050 of expression, and so on and so on. 1280 00:47:36,310 --> 00:47:38,110 If you have a good amount of energy, 1281 00:47:38,110 --> 00:47:40,630 good energy, then you become a prosperous country. 1282 00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:44,430 Yes, and you can't wage war based on 1283 00:47:44,430 --> 00:47:44,770 windmills. 1284 00:47:45,250 --> 00:47:46,110 No, that doesn't work at all. 1285 00:47:46,590 --> 00:47:49,190 So there will probably be some nuclear power 1286 00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:49,990 in not too long. 1287 00:47:50,210 --> 00:47:51,790 There is a strong smell of nuclear power 1288 00:47:51,790 --> 00:47:52,730 in Norway in the short term. 1289 00:47:54,410 --> 00:47:56,470 I'm starting to think that we're going to 1290 00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:58,510 see spas on the ground in 2-3 1291 00:47:58,510 --> 00:47:58,910 years. 1292 00:47:59,190 --> 00:48:00,830 Yes, it almost has to be like that. 1293 00:48:01,110 --> 00:48:05,890 And then I think MDG and SV will 1294 00:48:05,890 --> 00:48:08,630 have to think about how they managed to 1295 00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:12,150 be climate-engaged for 15-20 years without 1296 00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:13,030 talking about nuclear power. 1297 00:48:13,290 --> 00:48:13,390 Yes. 1298 00:48:14,750 --> 00:48:16,570 It is so brain-dead. 1299 00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:17,010 Yes. 1300 00:48:17,450 --> 00:48:19,450 But it's about when you don't count on 1301 00:48:19,450 --> 00:48:20,690 things, the answers become weirder. 1302 00:48:21,170 --> 00:48:22,490 Yes, but you shouldn't count on it. 1303 00:48:22,690 --> 00:48:25,190 It's a penalty for coming to SV. 1304 00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:25,970 Yes. 1305 00:48:26,610 --> 00:48:30,010 But MDG should have had more control over 1306 00:48:30,010 --> 00:48:30,150 it. 1307 00:48:30,670 --> 00:48:32,210 Yes, but remember where they come from. 1308 00:48:32,510 --> 00:48:32,670 Yes. 1309 00:48:34,370 --> 00:48:37,250 It's the Germans, and this is a decision 1310 00:48:37,250 --> 00:48:39,610 by the German MDG, and it's a party 1311 00:48:39,610 --> 00:48:40,130 that in the meantime ... 1312 00:48:40,130 --> 00:48:40,910 They are fucking crazy. 1313 00:48:41,830 --> 00:48:43,890 They rose up to be against nuclear power, 1314 00:48:44,170 --> 00:48:44,390 in the meantime. 1315 00:48:45,390 --> 00:48:47,830 No, and there has been a continuous problem 1316 00:48:47,830 --> 00:48:54,250 with the climate movement, that it is built 1317 00:48:54,250 --> 00:48:56,850 on nuclear weapons. 1318 00:48:57,150 --> 00:48:57,590 Against them. 1319 00:48:57,930 --> 00:48:58,050 Yes. 1320 00:48:58,370 --> 00:49:00,190 And that has led to a lot of 1321 00:49:00,190 --> 00:49:00,370 shit. 1322 00:49:00,370 --> 00:49:01,330 But that's the way it is. 1323 00:49:01,610 --> 00:49:02,870 Maybe we'll go lighter earlier in the meeting. 1324 00:49:03,550 --> 00:49:04,130 Yes, I think so. 1325 00:49:04,390 --> 00:49:05,550 Shall we say it like that? 1326 00:49:05,830 --> 00:49:05,950 Yes. 1327 00:49:06,350 --> 00:49:06,850 Have a good time. 1328 00:49:07,170 --> 00:49:14,310 Thank you for listening to Sidelinja podcast. 1329 00:49:15,070 --> 00:49:17,250 Feel free to talk about us, like, share 1330 00:49:17,250 --> 00:49:20,310 and recommend us in your podcast app, or 1331 00:49:20,310 --> 00:49:23,010 share in the comment field on YouTube. 1332 00:49:32,510 --> 00:49:36,070 If you have any questions, suggestions, questions or 1333 00:49:36,070 --> 00:49:38,430 anything else, you can find all contact information 1334 00:49:38,430 --> 00:49:41,930 at sidlinja.transistor.fm.