0:00:00 - (Mike Rhyner): Nobody would have thought that I would be the one. Reiner. Sports talk. Baseball, baseball, baseball, baseball. Oh, with the big mic. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, okay, now I get it. We got a lightning strike, boys. What happened over there, Grego? We had a little lightning strike right outside the window.
0:00:25 - (Bruce Gilbert): The Texas Rangers win the World Series.
0:00:30 - (Mike Rhyner): All right, all right. Here's a tip, right? All these Americano league teams don't. Wait, you said tip? Yeah, tip with a P. Keep jamming the ticket Cola. Nothing but a big Gen X jerk off session. This is a cool night. Or what? Although somebody would hear that and go, I'm back and hello to the Live at 5 crew. Glad to have you with us. It is another episode of your dark companion on this, the first day of the month of Rocktober.
0:01:13 - (Mike Rhyner): This is episode 159. We are glad you are here with us no matter where you are, no matter when or even how you may be receiving this podcast transmission. We're just glad you are out there. And by the channel, I'm Mike Reiner. We are here inside the nurturing biosphere of the mothership, wondering about a lot of things. There are really ties in the NFL. Really? They still have those. What are the Rangers going to do about a manager?
0:01:51 - (Mike Rhyner): Is it going to be the guy they want? Because the guy they want has options. And in this world, as you've heard me say many times before over the years, it's all about options. And he's got them. That's for later, though. Today, you know, everybody out there says, all I'm doing on this thing is inviting my friends in here and just shooting the shit with them. And that would not be incorrect. And it will be even further reinforced today because we have with us today a guy who was very instrumental in the shaping of the Ticket once it had been around for a few years. We were reaching a phase where, okay, it's time for us to turn this thing into whatever it's going to turn into.
0:02:47 - (Mike Rhyner): And this guy came on board and was very instrumental in guiding us through that because he is. He is nothing if not a radio guy. You think I'm a radio guy? This is the ultimate radio guy. And he got us through this. And you know the rest of that story. He is the one time program director of the Ticket, the great Bruce Gilbert.
0:03:16 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah. Wow. Never had an introduction like that before. Of course, I've never been on a show like this before. So.
0:03:27 - (Mike Rhyner): You may have been on some, but they probably weren't like this.
0:03:30 - (Bruce Gilbert): No, they probably weren't. And not from Such a nurturing biosphere.
0:03:33 - (Mike Rhyner): Yes. Yeah, that's right. So how are you doing?
0:03:36 - (Bruce Gilbert): I'm doing good. I am really having a weird day because ever since I woke up, I've been wondering why in the hell you wanted me to come do this. And couldn't you find somebody better?
0:03:47 - (Mike Rhyner): I thought you were gonna say, why the hell did I agree to do this?
0:03:51 - (Bruce Gilbert): Well, I do stupid things like that all the time, so I knew why I agreed to do it. I just didn't know why you actually wanted me to do it.
0:03:58 - (Mike Rhyner): Because you got a story to tell. I like guys coming in here with stories to tell. And you've got one.
0:04:05 - (Bruce Gilbert): If you say so. I mean, I don't know if I'm as good a storyteller as you are, but I've lived a pretty cool life, thanks to great people like you that have made it fun and interesting.
0:04:14 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, back at you.
0:04:15 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah, for sure.
0:04:16 - (Mike Rhyner): You came along at a very critical.
0:04:18 - (Bruce Gilbert): Juncture of the ticket, and thankfully I didn't know that. I think if I had known that, it probably would have put too much pressure on the situation. I was sort of. I think I kind of came into it maybe the same way you guys did just a few years later, sort of, you know, without any real expectations other than to have fun and see if we can make something out of something.
0:04:39 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah, that was pretty much it. I mean, there was no blueprint for us. You know, we didn't know what we were doing. We were just going in there every day trying to do a little good radio and trying to have as much fun as we possibly could while doing good radio.
0:04:54 - (Bruce Gilbert): And. And I was a guy that had been in music radio ever since I was 14 years old and just wanted to be a disc jockey and, you know, play records. And then I found myself moving across the country to a 5000 watt AM radio station that didn't play any records. And I'm like, what the hell am I doing? It's sort of like booking this podcast. What the hell am I doing? Why did I agree to this?
0:05:19 - (Mike Rhyner): So now, where were you when we got you?
0:05:21 - (Bruce Gilbert): So I was in Pittsburgh and I was working for the Hearst Corporation, which was a great company that only owned a few radio stations. And that's when consolidation had just begun. And so we had been purchased by one of the Sillerman companies. There was SFX and all these different companies, and people were starting to do LMAs and they were coming in with new management, and it was looking pretty bleak.
0:05:48 - (Bruce Gilbert): So I had started looking around for other opportunities, but do you remember how Dan Bennett found me or how my name even got on the list? Because I didn't really apply. I got asked to apply.
0:06:01 - (Mike Rhyner): By whom? I guess I don't know.
0:06:04 - (Bruce Gilbert): This, I think you do know, but I might have to. It was your midday talent at that time, one young, cocky Rocco Pendola. Oh.
0:06:12 - (Mike Rhyner): Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. You knew him?
0:06:16 - (Bruce Gilbert): I had hired him. I hired him in Pittsburgh. He had worked for me, and then he got hired by Mike Thompson to come to the Ticket. And when Mike said he was leaving, Rocco walked down to Dan Bennett and said, hey, you probably should talk to this guy. And. And by that time, he had had his mind settled pretty much on hiring Tommy Kramer to be the Ticket program director. And Rocco gave him my name at the very last minute, and I ended up down here in the conference room at Mockingbird, when it was the first time I met you and Greggo. Because after spending the day with Dan Bennett, I think to either scare me away from the job or find out if I could handle it, he brought Reiner and Grego in there to sort of. They didn't really.
0:06:58 - (Bruce Gilbert): You didn't. I don't know if it was just to intimidate me or actually ask me questions. I'm not sure, but I know. You remember that meeting.
0:07:05 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah, yeah, I do remember that meeting. And I think the idea of. Of us being in that meeting was for him to find out what we thought of you and find out whether just what kind of vibe we got off of, you know, talking to you and being around you and everything, and how I didn't know my way around meetings like that because we'd had one with Tommy. With Tommy Crane.
0:07:31 - (Bruce Gilbert): I thought so. I think Dan told me, hey, this other guy. I mean, Dan was. Dan's a pretty honest guy. He's a very honest guy. And he told me about Tommy, and he mentioned that you guys. And so he goes, I want them to meet you, too. So I think he was just looking for your first impressions.
0:07:46 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, I was. You know, no offense or anything like that, but I was not really dug in on the idea of Tommy Kramer coming in because he seemed to me like a guy who didn't understand what we were and what we were all about. And I didn't think he would let us be us. That was the main thing we needed back then because we'd had Mike Thompson, the proverbial wild Irish laddie boy.
0:08:15 - (Bruce Gilbert): They broke the mold when they made him more.
0:08:17 - (Mike Rhyner): Did they ever. Did they ever? Did they ever. But I love that cat.
0:08:20 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah, and so do I. And he's a tremendous man, still doing great living in Pasadena. I hear from him a few times a year. You know, he still sings Irish show tunes. I don't know if he shotguns beers anymore, but I know he sings Irish show tunes.
0:08:36 - (Mike Rhyner): He'll probably hear about this and want to come on, which I'm down with. I'm down with it. But I was not really sold on Tommy Kramer, and. But I didn't know if they had any other options. And if you had given me any kind of reasonable feel at all like you might not be like him, then I was gonna jump on board. And you did. And I remember walking out after that meeting was over. I walked down to Dan's office right as, I guess I was about to leave or something like that, and told him, man, if we can get this guy, let's do it.
0:09:16 - (Mike Rhyner): And, well, you know the rest of the story. The next thing you know, you were probably loading up the moving truck.
0:09:22 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah, loading up the truck and moving to. I guess it doesn't rhyme like Beverly Hillbillies, but for a really old reference. But yeah, on our way to Texas, like I said to leave FM Music Radio for a 5000 watt AM talk station with a bunch of guys that had a jock strap for a billboard.
0:09:41 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah.
0:09:43 - (Bruce Gilbert): It was like, all right, this is a good career decision. My life's going in the right direct.
0:09:49 - (Mike Rhyner): Who owned us back then?
0:09:51 - (Bruce Gilbert): I guess it was Susquehanna. Yeah.
0:09:54 - (Mike Rhyner): Okay. So we'd already been sold twice, right. At that time. The first was to sfx, I believe, or whoever owned KRLD at the time, because we'd kind of fallen on in the grouping with them.
0:10:09 - (Bruce Gilbert): That's right.
0:10:10 - (Mike Rhyner): And sfx, or whoever was them unloaded. Unloaded us off onto Susquehanna, which also owned Cliff. And I thought, okay, this is church for us. Because I figured that the only thing that they would want with. With us would be to kill us so they could make things easier for Cliff.
0:10:36 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah, they didn't like you. There's no doubt about that.
0:10:38 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah. Yeah. But as things turned out there a few years later, after all the dust had settled and we were a part of the. Of the picture at Susquehanna, and things were going well and everything. One year at the Christmas party, I told Dan Bennett that story that I thought he'd bought us just to kill us. And I've never seen a more pronounced expression on his face than that. And this is a Christmas party, mind you. He looked at me and went, mike, why would we want to do that?
0:11:13 - (Mike Rhyner): And I said, to make things easier for Cliff, he says, no, no, no, no. We bought you because we liked you.
0:11:20 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah.
0:11:20 - (Mike Rhyner): And we thought you had a chance to turn into something really good. And he was right about all that.
0:11:28 - (Bruce Gilbert): They were right. Larry Grogan, Dan Halliburton. Damn. They saw it, and they did. And I think what's cool, too, is that Larry and Dan saw in Dan Bennett, a guy who was ready to take on a project like that and make it his own. And I think that's why Dan is still there today. And, you know, I get way too much credit for the success of the ticket. I mean, Dan and Jeff Catlin are the guys that have been there forever and have held it together and have fought off all the different ownership changes and stayed true to many of the principles that you applied as the patriarch of that thing.
0:12:01 - (Bruce Gilbert): And they deserve a ton of credit for that. And I know some stories I can't tell on this podcast. Some of the things they protected over the years that they were told they couldn't do, shouldn't do, had to stop doing, and they stuck up for the ticket every time and kept that thing alive.
0:12:19 - (Mike Rhyner): Over the years, we ran into little, I mean, very little interference from them or them getting involved in what we were doing or anything. I mean, if there was going to be a hit to be taken, they were the ones who were going to take it.
0:12:33 - (Bruce Gilbert): And.
0:12:33 - (Mike Rhyner): And how often do you find that these days?
0:12:35 - (Bruce Gilbert): You don't. I mean, and I think it was more common then, because Dan instilled that in me as the program director, is like, no, don't tell people to change the principles that have made this station what it is so far. Let's just. Let's just try to smooth out some of the jagged edges. But we got to keep that locker room bunker mentality, and that's what's made it work. And these guys don't know any different. But to just be the underdogs and feed off of that, and we use that as rocket fuel, and the fact that we did it then wasn't really as impressive as it is that Jeff and Dan are still doing it today.
0:13:11 - (Bruce Gilbert): Those guys, I just. I can't believe I can't even fathom staying somewhere as long as they both stayed there, because that's just not how my career has been. And yet they have, and they've done it with wild and amazing success. They deserve a lot more credit than they get, in my opinion.
0:13:30 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, neither one of them are the type to, you know, tooth their own horn or anything like that. But that is absolutely true. I mean, you don't see guys in either of those positions, station manager, program director, stay for that long unless they're doing something really, really right.
0:13:48 - (Bruce Gilbert): Not only stay for that long, but have to sort of fight the institution at times. You know, to be able to maintain that position and to be able to maintain their, Their, their priorities and their beliefs and their philosophies. They've had to fend off a lot of corporate edicts and a lot of people telling them, you should do it this way instead of that way. And they've, They've always sort of been, no, this is the ticket. That's how the ticket does it.
0:14:09 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah.
0:14:09 - (Bruce Gilbert): And they. That's, that's not easy to do when those are your bosses telling you that.
0:14:14 - (Mike Rhyner): So you would know more about than me. Because none of that stuff ever trickled down to us, at least not that I know of anyway.
0:14:20 - (Bruce Gilbert): That's why you're able to be so successful. And to me, that's good management. Management should stay out of the. Let the talent be the talent and keep them from all of the drama and, and depressing stuff so they can do their job or the difficult stuff. Not all of it was depressing, but some of it was difficult or challenging. And you didn't need to know that. You needed to go in there and entertain people, make them laugh.
0:14:42 - (Mike Rhyner): As I remember, ratings day was a pretty good time around there most of the time.
0:14:46 - (Bruce Gilbert): Most of the time, Yeah. I mean, I, I swallowed a few Tums on ratings days and washed them down with Pepto Bismol, but, you know, there were. Most of them were pretty good. Every 30 days, hovering over that dot matrix printer, waiting for, you know, to see how many. If you went on the first page, man, your life was about to go to hell in a handbasket.
0:15:08 - (Mike Rhyner): You were in for another tough three months or whatever.
0:15:11 - (Bruce Gilbert): Exactly, exactly.
0:15:13 - (Mike Rhyner): So what were your impressions? Impressions? I mean, did you listen a lot before you came down there? And did you have any kind of. Or how good of a feel did you have for what we were and who we were and what we were doing and everything?
0:15:27 - (Bruce Gilbert): Whatever feel I thought I had, I was completely wrong, I'm sure, because there was nothing like what you guys were doing. Not. And I, I'm a radio dork. I mean, I've been in radio. My dad was in radio. My brother's still in radio, My sister's still in radio. I will listen to any station anytime. I would go sit in the car in Binghamton, New York, and listen to WLS on the car radio because it would only come in. In the car.
0:15:52 - (Bruce Gilbert): And so I had listened quite a bit, but again, I came in at the very end. And what you don't know is on the way back to the airport, Dan offered me the job. I mean, that day. So you must have talked to him before he drove me to the airport, because I remember him saying that you had come by his office.
0:16:09 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah.
0:16:09 - (Bruce Gilbert): And he goes, I want, you know, I want you to take this job. I'll figure it out. I. I got a plan for Tommy, which he did. He had, you know, Tommy actually fit in great for what he wanted to do on klif. And Tommy had some great skills, and he was like, I. I think you're the guy for the ticket. So then I really started listening. And as I recall, the more I listened, the more I thought, I don't know what the hell this is. I mean, I. I really did. It's like, you know, it's like, I'm not sure, you know, but. But what I did know is that there was chemistry.
0:16:41 - (Bruce Gilbert): Like, there. It was. There was this immediate feeling of, you know, a bunch of guys that actually really like to hang out together. And I didn't know if it was real or manufactured or, you know, luck or planned or spontaneous, but there was. It was unlike anything I had ever heard before. I mean, you know, I'd heard many, many shows with great chemistries, with great chemistry, but this was the whole station like, it. It had this continual, ongoing brotherhood.
0:17:15 - (Bruce Gilbert): It was. It was. It was a fraternity. And, you know, all the things we used to use for liners on the air, you know, it was a. It was a Tupperware party for guys. It was a fraternity. It was. It was the toy section, but it was. But then, you know, there was a lot going on, as there always is in this town, with the sports teams. And the minute you would be, man, I don't know if these guys, they don't seem serious about anything. And then a big story would happen to be like, oh, shit, they know what they're talking about.
0:17:41 - (Mike Rhyner): You'd find out how serious we could be.
0:17:43 - (Bruce Gilbert): These guys can cover sports like they know everything about everything that's happening, and they're on top of it. And so it was like trying to understand all of that. And. And I think it's really good that it was completely different. And I didn't. I didn't really understand it because it allowed me to say to myself, why am I going to go try to, you know, put a bunch of philosophies on these guys or tell them everything I've ever learned because I was still pretty young and I hadn't learned at all.
0:18:14 - (Bruce Gilbert): I was like, I need to really just listen to this for a little longer and understand it before I even make a comment, because it wouldn't be fair to all the work you guys had put into it up to that point. Point. In my opinion. It's like I need to. I need to get caught up on what's what and. And talk to everybody off the air and figure out why are they doing this? What's. What's it mean to them? What's your purpose? What. What are you trying to accomplish? And.
0:18:38 - (Bruce Gilbert): And, man, the other part is that it. Once I got in the building, it was contagious. That. That attitude, that bunker mentality that, you know, we're in this together and we kind of feed off of people saying, this is never going to last. Because you were still. You were. You were three years in, and everyone was still saying, this is never going to last. Even the people who said it wouldn't last six months or a year three years later were still saying, well, it's never going to last.
0:19:02 - (Bruce Gilbert): Well, it's been here three years.
0:19:04 - (Mike Rhyner): I was feeling pretty good about it at that point.
0:19:06 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah. Yeah. I think. Well, you think about how much you already survived the two different ownership changes. You know, there was a lot that happened in those first three years, and none of you. None of you, as I recall, were, you know, getting rich. No, it was. It was still a labor of love.
0:19:24 - (Mike Rhyner): Yes, it was. Yeah, it was a labor of love. And also the other thing was we were doing it because it was really all we had. I mean, everybody else was in a different place. They were underlings over those places. They could probably could have gone back to those places, continued to be underlings, and then none of it ever happens.
0:19:46 - (Bruce Gilbert): You know, that's a really great point, Ryan, but I mean, everybody saw this.
0:19:50 - (Mike Rhyner): This is our one big chance here.
0:19:52 - (Bruce Gilbert): It's funny, because I think people on the outside would say you all had something to prove and you had a chip on your shoulder. And maybe that's true to some level, but I think it's more what you just described, because at that time in the business, and some of this has changed, some of it hasn't, but if you got a seat, you didn't give up your seat. So all these guys that you recruited that were just out of college, Donna Miller or. Or people that you hung out in the press box with, they couldn't get any of those seats that were at WBAP or KLIF or.
0:20:23 - (Bruce Gilbert): Or krld. You know, those seats were occupied.
0:20:27 - (Mike Rhyner): And it's not like we could have gone to the guys who were in those seats and said, hey, come over here. You know.
0:20:32 - (Bruce Gilbert): Right.
0:20:32 - (Mike Rhyner): This little fledgling cigarette lighter station.
0:20:37 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah. And so you're right. I think it was more that. It was more like maybe you did have something to prove and maybe you did have a chip on your shoulder, but you also had nothing else.
0:20:48 - (Mike Rhyner): That's right.
0:20:49 - (Bruce Gilbert): Like, so that was.
0:20:50 - (Mike Rhyner): That was probably the primal force that was driving the whole thing.
0:20:54 - (Bruce Gilbert): Survival. Right.
0:20:56 - (Mike Rhyner): It's either this or what.
0:20:58 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah. Yeah, it's. And I. And I think that's easier to sort of recognize in hindsight, because in the moment, you're just doing what you're doing.
0:21:06 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah.
0:21:06 - (Bruce Gilbert): And you're. And you're really just trying to string the days together and the weeks and the months and the seasons at that time.
0:21:12 - (Mike Rhyner): You know, So I. I've talked to people a lot about this over the years. You just brought it up. I want to get your take on it because I know what it means to me. But tell me what chemistry means to you.
0:21:32 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah, it's.
0:21:35 - (Mike Rhyner): Because I agree with your point.
0:21:36 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah.
0:21:38 - (Mike Rhyner): That's why anything that happened back then happened. That's why it still continues to happen today.
0:21:44 - (Bruce Gilbert): It's everything. It's everything in the equation of success. Except for the planning phase, because I don't think you can plan for chemistry.
0:21:58 - (Mike Rhyner): No.
0:22:00 - (Bruce Gilbert): But it's the Supreme Court's definition of porn. You know, I'll know it when I see it. You know, I mean, it's like you can try to tell everybody, well, this makes this chemistry, or this makes that chemistry. The only time that it. That can be planned, I think, is like when it's Eli and Peyton Manning. Cause they're brothers. They have this. They share the same DNA. That is inbred chemistry. That's real chemistry.
0:22:23 - (Bruce Gilbert): But in our business, you. You know it when you hear it. And it's the. It's the collide. It's the collision of two voices that play off of each other. Well. It's the being able to make fun of each other without getting defensive. It's the, you know, finishing each other's sentences. It's the understanding what makes you tick. It's understanding what buttons set you off. And that stuff just happens so naturally, especially on the hard line. But over.
0:22:52 - (Bruce Gilbert): Over the years, you started to see it happen as these. These guys got put together and stayed together. And it's so funny now, you know, these guys have been on the air almost 30 years. The guys that are still at the ticket and people still want to. They want to talk about, oh, how do we copy that? You can't. No, you can't copy. That's 30 years in the making. You can't. You know, like, even today, the chemistry is different than it was then, whether it's better or just advanced. But.
0:23:18 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah, it's vital. But you can't manufacture it. Maybe that's. I think that's my answer to your question. And you just have to. When you hear it, you have to be smart enough to not only recognize it, but then try to continue to feed it. Yeah, feed it. Feed it and grow it.
0:23:33 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah. It's either there or it's not. But the hard part is to. Once you think you've got it, and I don't know at what point it occurred to me that we really did have great chemistry all the way around. But once you've got it, you gotta figure out how to nurture it, and you gotta figure out how to keep it from getting away from you.
0:24:00 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah. It's like a relationship, right? Yeah, it is. Because in order to keep the chemistry, whether you know it or not, there's probably a series of compromises happening to keep that afloat and to not let it get away from you. Because the minute someone sort of violates the principle of, oh, yeah, I gotta have enough room for his aura or her aura, then it does start to get away from you. Because now it's becoming about one person.
0:24:30 - (Bruce Gilbert): And that was the magic of the ticket chemistry. There were stars. You being a guy that had all this tenure in the marketplace and this history in the zoo, but there. But there wasn't. There were stars, but there wasn't any one person trying to shine the spotlight on themselves and willing to put a knife in everybody else's back so they could advance themselves. It was collaborative, and it was collegial and it was fraternal. It was all of those things that created the magic.
0:25:03 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah. You know, we developed stars, too. I mean, there are a lot of guys who came in as, and they weren't. I mean, hell, I was no star when I came in there. I was somebody who had been on a rock station a few years back, but was pretty much out of view and had been for some time. So I was no star by any means, but we did develop some.
0:25:29 - (Bruce Gilbert): And you did that because, again, nobody made it about themselves. Everybody made it about the mission, and they made it about the you know, it really became, I think, a mission of proving everybody wrong. You know, nobody. Nobody thinks this can work, so let's be the ones to show them. And with that, I think what's great about it is everybody sort of dropped their own. Their own personal agenda and they adopted the ticket agenda. And that. That is hugely important in the whole story of the radio station.
0:26:02 - (Mike Rhyner): Make no mistake about it. We did. I probably should make this about me here. I did have a chip on my shoulder because I knew what people were thinking about it.
0:26:15 - (Bruce Gilbert): Well, and you're. And you stuck your neck out the furthest, so you should have a chip on your shoulder.
0:26:20 - (Mike Rhyner): I mean, I knew what people were saying. I knew people thought that, number one, sports radio would not work in this town. Now, I don't know why they thought that, but that was what the. The consensus really seemed to be. Despite the fact that it was working in virtually every other place, this was one of two or three markets of any size whatsoever that did not have it.
0:26:49 - (Bruce Gilbert): Well, and think about this. Ryan's. Outside of Kid Craddock, Ron Chapman, all the stars on Dallas radio at that time were doing sports shows. It was Randy Galloway and it was Norm Hitchkis, and it was, you know, those were the guys that were. Even the sports brothers had a little bit of, you know, fuel, you know, because it got response and it played into the emotion of sports and the. And the, you know, the fandom of Cowboys, especially in this town.
0:27:22 - (Bruce Gilbert): But that was a prevailing thing across the country. Every time a sports radio station, that was the prevailing thing. When ESPN signed on television, people said, it'll never last.
0:27:30 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah.
0:27:31 - (Bruce Gilbert): And here they are.
0:27:32 - (Mike Rhyner): That's the way it was back then. I remember, you know, in the days where me and the other two guys who were starting the thing were in the planning phase. We had already decided we were going to make a go for this. We were looking around for signals. We were talking about how we thought it would be. None of which transpired into any kind of reality. But we were well on our way in planning. And I was sure enough that it was going to happen.
0:28:01 - (Mike Rhyner): Where I started going around to, you know, people that I would see at games and stuff like that. And I'd say, why do you think there's no sports radio in this town? You know, and this is, you know, while knowing that we were about to try this, I just wanted to see what they said. And they all just looked at me and said, never work here. I said, why? He said, well, because you got krld, you got wbap They've got all the teams. You, and you're definitely going to need a team to do something like that.
0:28:38 - (Mike Rhyner): They've got big name talent, nobody else does. There's no other big name talent out there. So it just wouldn't work around here.
0:28:46 - (Bruce Gilbert): And not an illogical point, by the way.
0:28:48 - (Mike Rhyner): No, no.
0:28:50 - (Bruce Gilbert): All of those things are facts. And add to that that those stations at the time had boss ass ratings.
0:28:55 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah.
0:28:56 - (Bruce Gilbert): So they were feeding those shows with daytime shows that drove them to the sports show at that typically started at like six o' clock at night. Right. So I, I, you know, when you're living in that moment, I could see where they thought that answer was the right answer. But you know, this is, this was, this is the first lesson in disruption in Dallas radio. I think it's like that was a word they didn't use then. But you guys were the original disruptors.
0:29:23 - (Mike Rhyner): And you know, I would talk to people I respected like that, you know, and have that conversation with the them.
0:29:28 - (Bruce Gilbert): And, and you did it anyway.
0:29:31 - (Mike Rhyner): But, but they would send me home going and thinking, man, are we doing the right thing here? Does this really have a chance? Or do those guys know something that I'm not seeing? But nevertheless, we soldiered on.
0:29:44 - (Bruce Gilbert): He did. And good thing. I'm sure you second guessed yourself, but thank goodness you didn't third or fourth or fifth guess yourself because it, at some point you just got to jump out of the plane.
0:29:53 - (Mike Rhyner): That's right. You know how to do it or don't do it.
0:29:56 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah, that's right.
0:29:57 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, Bruce, let me stop things down here for just a second if I can.
0:30:03 - (Bruce Gilbert): Please do.
0:30:04 - (Mike Rhyner): Because we've come to that point where it's time for the dreaded mid show read.
0:30:13 - (Bruce Gilbert): It's happening.
0:30:15 - (Mike Rhyner): It is happening. It's time for me to do what amounts to a live spot. So if you will excuse me.
0:30:22 - (Bruce Gilbert): Should I start my stopwatch? Because I, you know, I. Oh, gotta keep it under 60.
0:30:27 - (Mike Rhyner): Nope, nope. These are unlimited. These can go as long as we want.
0:30:31 - (Bruce Gilbert): I love it. Could do the rest of the show.
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0:32:35 - (Mike Rhyner): All right, now we are back here with Bruce Gilbert, who is largely responsible for the ticket turning into what it turned into, what it has turned into, what it still is today because he came along at just the right time. He was just the right guy in just the right space at just the right time to make sure that we could turn into what we turned into. Jerome, have any doubts about it?
0:33:08 - (Bruce Gilbert): No, I don't think so. Especially after I met everybody I got on this. I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm romanticizing it in hindsight, but I. I'm like, I want to be on this train. Let's go. It was just. It was. There was a palpable energy and attitude. Attitude, especially there was like this. This was like, I. I dig where, you know, we are, where these guys are. And. And, you know, the ratings hadn't really started happening yet. We were getting little blips in the fall, but then it would fall off after football season, and so it just felt like there was nowhere to go. But up.
0:33:46 - (Bruce Gilbert): So, no, I. You know, I don't. I'm sure in my darkest moments, maybe I had some doubts, but I've for long forgotten about those.
0:33:54 - (Mike Rhyner): When did you. Was there a particular time or a particular happening where you said, okay, this thing is on its way?
0:34:05 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah. I mean, I can't give you the date or time, but like I said earlier when I came in with this, like, I don't know what this is. I think before Christmas, that first year, so 97, I moved to Allen, which, you know, everybody told me was. Was nuts. But the best part about moving to Allen is, man, I was in my car a lot. And so I got to hear the station a lot at different times of day. And I recall on one of those commutes, somewhere between Thanksgiving and Christmas, realizing how I was more and more leaning into the radio and laughing out loud and following along and turning it up. And not because I, you know, the first month, I'm sure I was, you know, I'd get disinterested. I'd make a phone call or, you know, I would do something else in my car. And I started realizing, like, oh, I want. Not only am I leaning in and laughing out loud, I'm now planning what time I'm going to leave the office, because I want to be in my car to hear this interview or this bit or this.
0:35:13 - (Bruce Gilbert): This thing that I know that you guys are going to do. And I'm like, you know, I'm in the demo, like, I'm a dude, you know, And I'm thinking, all right, if I feel this way, you know, maybe others are getting the same kind of vibe. And that's. That was. That was a seminal moment. I remember, you know, thinking that, you know, there's something. It had started to. It sort of had started to infiltrate me in a way in which I was buying into to the episodic drama that was the ticket and each individual show and what's gonna happen to this guy today? And are they gonna slap him down because he did this, or are they gonna make fun of him because he did that?
0:35:51 - (Bruce Gilbert): And it became, you know, for me that, you know, can't miss radio. And I thought, if I'm. If I'm, you know, I know I'm in the business, but these are the emotions I'm having. I'm feeling something when I listen to this radio station. That's a really good sign.
0:36:08 - (Mike Rhyner): Can we talk a little more big picture here?
0:36:10 - (Bruce Gilbert): Sure.
0:36:12 - (Mike Rhyner): What do you think about the status of radio today?
0:36:17 - (Bruce Gilbert): Because I'm still employed I don't know if I should take the fifth or. Look, I think, look, everything changes, and change is good. I think part of the reason I'm still in the business is because I actually embrace and like change. And so the good thing about radio is and always will be it's, it's still by far to me. Well, first of all, to me personally, it's still magic, I think, you know, and I say we're saying radio, even this, doing a podcast, it's magic to me that we can be sitting in the nurturing biosphere, talking to each other and having this great conversation, and others can be watching on their phone or on their iPad or on their computer. That's magic to me.
0:36:58 - (Bruce Gilbert): And when you do that and you connect with people like you do in the audio space, there's an intimate connection that is just. It can't be duplicated. It can't be done by Spotify, it can't be done by Pandora. No offense to those products. I use them. But, you know, this, the personal connection can happen. And radio has a place because of its intimate connection and because of its ability to be there when people need it most, Whether it's emergency or breaking news or weather events, those things are all still really vital.
0:37:33 - (Bruce Gilbert): And people still really turn to radio for those things, especially when they're in their car. Now, the other side that's difficult to deal with is that like millions of other businesses, we have become one that is mostly prioritized by spreadsheets and bean counters. And you know, that that's hard for me because I'm, I'm a, I'm. I got in this business for the creativity and I got in this business because I want to take chances and try things. And coming to the ticket was like the, that was like the complete, you know, it fulfilled everything I believed about the business. It was, it encapsulated all. It was affirmation that it is magic and that you can, you know, reach these, these heights if you believe in what you're doing and you have the right creative people and, and now that isn't considered nearly as much. There's no research and development.
0:38:27 - (Bruce Gilbert): There's just, you know, it's, it's. There's still a lot of great talent, thankfully, that have stuck with it, that still connect and have big audiences. I still love the thrill of covering live events like, you know, doing play by play for NFL games and in college basketball games like we do for Westwood One. That's still a great service for people who can't be by a screen and, you know, want to listen to their favorite game.
0:38:51 - (Bruce Gilbert): So there's still a lot I love about it. It's just. And again, we could complain about it and say, oh, radio's done this, radio's done that. So if you talk to your friends in any other business, their businesses are the same too. You know, it's all come down to trying to please the stockholders, trying to please the people that have put money into it and want to get their money out of it. And, and I get all that. I understand all of it. But it has.
0:39:11 - (Bruce Gilbert): It has sucked some of the fun out of it. And I think it's squashed what you did. It squashed. It's prevented people from taking the leap that you took because there's not. Nobody's going to be given as much time as you were given. No, not today.
0:39:28 - (Mike Rhyner): No.
0:39:28 - (Bruce Gilbert): It's. If you can't do it in six months, well, nice try. See you later. And you couldn't have done that.
0:39:35 - (Mike Rhyner): It can be done in six months.
0:39:37 - (Bruce Gilbert): You gotta. It's gotta bake. You gotta leave it in the oven for a little while or it's gonna taste like shit.
0:39:43 - (Mike Rhyner): And fortunately, that's one of the key things about what we did back then. Yeah. Is the fact that we had a chance to ride it out for a while. We had a chance to ride it out and at least get it on the road to where it was going.
0:39:58 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah. And make some mistakes. Stumble and fall a few times. We did.
0:40:03 - (Mike Rhyner): We did. You know, not everything was great or. And, you know, we certainly had a. A few misfires along the way. And some people were in through there that didn't exactly fit in and such. But that's, you know, that, that, that's part of the process. And fortunately, one way or the other, and, and I'm kind of at a loss to explain why to. To come up with reasons why or how it happened. But fortunately we were allowed to try and outrun those things.
0:40:34 - (Mike Rhyner): And we did. And we did outrun them well.
0:40:37 - (Bruce Gilbert): And that's one of the huge keys is, you know, every time you. Every time you had that opening or got that opportunity, you went for it. You know, you ran at it and you didn't crumble under a few of those mistakes that were made. And I made a lot of them in the time I was there. But that was the great thing about that atmosphere too, is we were all. Were allowed to make mistakes. You know, what we did when we made mistakes, we just laughed at each other and then did something else.
0:41:02 - (Bruce Gilbert): And you know, it wasn't, it wasn't. No one got shamed, no one got dressed down. It was just like, well, that was a stupid idea. We won't do that again. And let's do it this way next time, you know, and, and that's a great environment. That's a, that's a really, that's a winning environment. Yeah, that is.
0:41:19 - (Mike Rhyner): Can radio today withstand all these different options that are out there now that everybody has?
0:41:25 - (Bruce Gilbert): You know, here's what I think. There's all these different options and if you really get deep into all the different options, no matter how they came to be, there's one constant. Everybody wants content. Content's the hottest buzzword of all right now and sure is. And what do we do? What are we doing right now? We're creating content.
0:41:44 - (Mike Rhyner): That's right.
0:41:45 - (Bruce Gilbert): And hey, I'm a content creator.
0:41:47 - (Mike Rhyner): Creators.
0:41:47 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yes, you are. I understand. You're even on Tick Tock. You're such a content creator.
0:41:52 - (Mike Rhyner): You'll see.
0:41:53 - (Bruce Gilbert): You and your Miracle Whip.
0:41:59 - (Mike Rhyner): I guess you'll find out about that.
0:42:00 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah, I just sent him down that rabbit hole, didn't I? They're Google searching right now. Mike Reiner, Miracle Whip. And if that takes you to pornhub, stop.
0:42:13 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah, you're going the wrong way.
0:42:14 - (Bruce Gilbert): Or detour for a moment and then get back to your search. Whatever you want to do, go back.
0:42:19 - (Mike Rhyner): To the cut off and go the other way.
0:42:20 - (Bruce Gilbert): Live your life. But that, but, but to your question, people who are creative and interesting and curious and, and, and, and do all the things that you did and still do today, there's going to be a place for that. Everybody wants content. It's just, you know, it, it's not the mass, the broadcasting aspect of radio is the thing that's shrinking because nobody, our, our society outside of the, I would argue outside of the NFL, there is not any shared experiences anymore.
0:43:03 - (Bruce Gilbert): It's hard. You know, the I, I saw a story a month or two ago, the top 10 downloaded songs not downloaded streamed songs on Spotify, like in the middle of this year. So in the summer of 25, the top 10 were all songs that came out in 24. So what does that tell you that tells you that that's weird? Yeah, well, yeah, there's not this rush to one common thing anymore because the consumers are controlling the, the consumption of the content.
0:43:37 - (Bruce Gilbert): And so niche content is rising to the top because it's to those areas that like it. And mass content is harder and harder to scale because people aren't sharing experiences. Aren't sitting down as families and watching one of three channels on Thursday night when Friends is on or Seinfeld or whatever, it was like back in the day. So, you know, it's a long winded way to say as long as people are creating content, there's going to be a desire for it. Now how they get it and where all that ends up, I don't know. But you're already seeing the consolidation.
0:44:12 - (Bruce Gilbert): I mean, if you. Look, I use TV and video a lot in teaching and coaching talent and teaching radio stations and coaching radio stations because we have followed them in many ways. And when they broke off from the cable model and everyone started cutting the cord, it was, I'm going to go over here and I'm going to subscribe for the, the Texas Rangers, the NFL Network or the Sunday ticket or, you know, I'm just going to make sure I get Alabama football games or whatever. And it was, everybody was just going to go get their little individual a la carte pieces of entertainment.
0:44:43 - (Bruce Gilbert): And what's happening now, Hulu, Disney plus and ESPN are all bundled. You know what that is? It's freaking cable. That's what it is. Cable went away. I cut the cord. Now I'm back to having cable again. It's just Hulu and Disney plus and ESPN being streamed in your home instead of you having to put a dish on your house or have the cable guy come out and hook it up. So a lot of things start to come back around too.
0:45:06 - (Bruce Gilbert): And, and I, and, and look, we own, you know, I work for Cumulus Media. We own 400 radio stations. There's still a lot of really popular shows that people don't miss every day. Has it shrunk? Sure, there's not as many as there used to be, but we're protecting those and people live for those and it means a lot in their lives. And so there's still, you know, I think there's still some juice there. Maybe I'm Pollyannish because I love this business and it's, you know, fed me for quite a few years.
0:45:36 - (Mike Rhyner): I like an advocate for the business. You know, I mean, the business needs an advocate and it needs guys who think like that.
0:45:46 - (Bruce Gilbert): Well, we, we have always had a PR problem. We, meaning the radio industry. We've always taken the position of the ugly stepchild and the poor little, you know, the poor little runt. And we shouldn't have, but we have. And we need more advocacy. We need more PR and we need to tell the good stories. And you know, believe me, I hear it Every day. Radio's dying. Radio's dying. Radio's dead. Radio's dead. And. And then a radio station goes on the air and does a St. Jude radio THON for two days and raises a million dollars. It's like, how can it be dead when they can get people in this economy to donate a million dollars to St. Jude?
0:46:28 - (Bruce Gilbert): That's the relationship that we have with our audiences. They trust us, they believe us. They're ordering CBC products right now because of you. Because they trust you.
0:46:40 - (Mike Rhyner): That's right. So who's your favorite radio personality you've ever worked with?
0:46:47 - (Bruce Gilbert): Oh, God. Is that a trap question? Oh, yeah, it is.
0:46:50 - (Mike Rhyner): All right. Take anybody you work with in this market out of it if you want to.
0:46:55 - (Bruce Gilbert): No, I. Well, no, I don't want to. I. Look, I, I have a tendency to sort of. I mean, I think everybody I worked with has been a blessing because I've learned from every single one of them. I mean, you know, I've learned. Learned some things to do and some things not to do. I've learned how to manage people differently. So every one of them has had a lot to offer. The smartest. Well, one of the smartest people I've ever worked with is Tony Kornheiser.
0:47:24 - (Bruce Gilbert): I worked with him at espn. He's just a brilliant man. He's so well read and really, really good. You asked who my favorite was.
0:47:35 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah, well, your favorite of the one you admire or just rattle off a few that you really, really like and really respect?
0:47:42 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah, I, I mean, I respect the hotted Tony because he's super smart and he's, he get, he's old school, but you know, he gets it and, and he's, you know, he, he doesn't take himself too seriously. Dan Patrick is an interesting one. I, you know, I got to work with Dan at ESPN and he was such a superstar at ESPN. When I got there, he was on SportsCenter at that time. You know, I'd just gotten done sort of doing it with Olbermann and was still doing SportsCenter and I was really intimidated by him. And I think he would tell you that we didn't have the best relationship when I was technically his boss.
0:48:15 - (Bruce Gilbert): But I came to just really respect him because he knew what he was good at, which was interviewing people. And to this day, I think he's the best sports interviewer. I think the best interviewer on radio ever is Howard Stern. But Dan Patrick in the sports space, he has this ability to ask short, crisp, open ended questions and get people to Say a lot. And that's a talent. That's a real talent. And Dan's not a yuck, yuck funny guy. That's not him.
0:48:43 - (Bruce Gilbert): And so he found what he was great at, and he leaned into it and was really, really good at it. I'll always have a soft spot for Colin Coward because I was lucky enough to have hired him at espn, and that was very much.
0:48:56 - (Mike Rhyner): Where'd you find him?
0:48:57 - (Bruce Gilbert): He was working in Portland. He was doing a midday sports talk show on an all sports station in Portland, and he was doing television sports at night. So he was one of those guys in a market that was doing sports talk during the day and anchoring sports at night on tv. And he came into my office to interview for the job, and I asked him one question. And, you know, 35 minutes later, he was still talking. And I'm like, this guy's a talk show host.
0:49:24 - (Bruce Gilbert): And, you know, it made me laugh. And I was interested. I wasn't bored. I wasn't, you know, going through my drawers or answering email. I was, like, actually captivated. And I just. I think he. He showed me. He just showed me that you can look at the world in a different way. Like, he didn't follow any of the rules that I thought a talk show host should follow, but he was just damn interesting. And it's like, at the end of the day, that's kind of the business we're in. We're in the interesting business. Right. If you're not interesting, it's switch.
0:49:52 - (Bruce Gilbert): See ya. I'm out of here. So I. And Colin. There's a parallel to the ticket with Colin. And that is that when. That was when Kornheiser left ESPN radio and we had an opening.
0:50:03 - (Mike Rhyner): Yeah.
0:50:05 - (Bruce Gilbert): And believe me, I interviewed, you know, Bob Costas and. And big names, like, they wanted big names to replace. Tony was a big name. And I came to them with this guy named Colin Coward. And I remember my boss at ESPN saying, what the hell is a Colin Coward? That can't be his real name. I'm like, yeah, it is his real name. And so it's funny, I sort of approached that hire like you approached the ticket. I had learned that from being here. It's like, no, I'm gonna.
0:50:35 - (Bruce Gilbert): Let's go. This is bunker mentality. This is the right guy. I'm gonna fight for this guy. And there were. And. And it worked out. And, you know, it was. And I think he's doing pretty well, last time I checked. So, you know, all of you guys, you know, I took Something away from everybody at the Ticket. I mean, you know, I think Gordon Keith is the most creative on the spot, wittiest, funniest people I've ever known, at least in the, in his ability to just, you know, wrap his head around something and turn it into something great in a short period of time. I mean, I.
0:51:12 - (Bruce Gilbert): His brilliance is unbelievable to this day still. I mean, he's remained relevant, and he.
0:51:19 - (Mike Rhyner): Does it instantly, too.
0:51:20 - (Bruce Gilbert): It's scary on the fly, and he doesn't miss any trend. He's always in touch with what's going on, what the big stories are, what people are talking about, and he hasn't. He's brilliant. He's. He's absolutely brilliant. And George and Craig epitomize that chemistry we talked about. You know, I've got a soft spot for Bob and Dan because that, that may have been a bit of a forced chemistry project that actually turned out pretty damn good.
0:51:46 - (Bruce Gilbert): You know, maybe there was some luck involved in that, but I'll always be proud of that.
0:51:50 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, that's ticket luck for you.
0:51:51 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah.
0:51:51 - (Mike Rhyner): We always used to talk about ticket luck and how over the years, when we needed something to fall into place or something to happen, it always did.
0:52:01 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah. Well. And if you remember, Bob was so serious when I hired Bob, and Dan was such a crazy dude, and it was in it. But think about it. It's not like I was reinventing the wheel. I was kind of stealing from you. There's Reiner, and here's Greggo. You know, here's a guy that's got equity in the marketplace, and Mike Reiner, who's got this authoritative voice and this big personality. And then you got Boyd county, you know, and it's like, here's Bob, this really serious sports guy. Now I need a stoner in here to, like, you know, just pee in his punch bowl, you know, and it.
0:52:35 - (Bruce Gilbert): Ticket luck made it work, or whatever made it work.
0:52:38 - (Mike Rhyner): I don't see how that worked, but it did.
0:52:40 - (Bruce Gilbert): It did. I remember leaving here in 2003, and they hadn't been together that long at that time, thinking, man, that'll be the first show that crumbles. And I, you know, 15 years later, they're still there. I'm like, oh, my gosh. They. This is nuts, man. So, but, but yeah, it's. And, and I think so. Yeah. I took away from a lot. I, I, I, I respect and admire anybody that does this. The reason I'm in management is because I was on the air and I sucked.
0:53:10 - (Bruce Gilbert): It was hard. I, I found out so that's why I. I just appreciate anybody that can do this every day. You know, three hours a day or an hour a day or two hours a day, coming up with something interesting and unique and funny and. And worthwhile and. And, you know, that that's a talent. And I. I will defend those people, all of them, all day long. So I. You know, they're all my favorite. I sound like a parent, but they're all my favorite because I admire anybody that can do it.
0:53:36 - (Mike Rhyner): I'm not asking you to pick just one.
0:53:38 - (Bruce Gilbert): I know, but they're. I got. I learned a lot from all of. All of you, just as I did from all the people I worked for that were my bosses. You know, I. I think that's. I. I think if I have one skill, it's just being super observant. And if you're super observant, you find you can. You can find the. First of all, you can find the good in anything. But there's. There's learnings from finding the bad in some things, too. Like, okay, I see how that went off the rail, so I'm going to try to avoid that. And because I'm. I'm not that smart. I just have to learn from watching other people.
0:54:11 - (Bruce Gilbert): So that's what he tried. That's what I've tried to do.
0:54:13 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, you're damn good at it.
0:54:15 - (Bruce Gilbert): Thank you.
0:54:16 - (Mike Rhyner): And I'll tell you, I really enjoyed my time with him. And I know that everybody that has had time with you, be it the ticket or elsewhere, that they've gotten something out of it, too. You're. I mean, you're just. You're just that kind of guy.
0:54:32 - (Bruce Gilbert): I hope so. I. You know, it's. To me, it's about all of us working together to accomplish some things. And we did some pretty good shit, didn't we, Ryan?
0:54:40 - (Mike Rhyner): I think we did. Yeah. I think we did, man. It was a great time.
0:54:46 - (Bruce Gilbert): It was. And it was. You know, I mentioned earlier, just casually, how I used to listen to WLS when I was a kid, and I thought that was the greatest radio station In America, top 40 station out of Chicago, that was heard in, what, 48 states. And I said when I. The day I left the ticket, that was my. Wls. That was the ticket, was my. I'll never experience that again. And I've experienced a lot. I've worked at ESPN and FOX Sports Radio, and I've worked for CBS and iHeart and Cumulus, and I've been so lucky. I've had great jobs, but they'll never be anything that will match the ticket because it was just a magical time. And you said it earlier on this. It was the right time, the right place. You said I was the right guy at the right time.
0:55:27 - (Bruce Gilbert): It was the right thing for me at the time, that time in my life, too.
0:55:31 - (Mike Rhyner): So we were all the right guys at the right time. We were the right guys at the right time, the right place with the right.
0:55:36 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yeah, yeah, that's right.
0:55:37 - (Mike Rhyner): If that's not a confluence, I don't.
0:55:39 - (Bruce Gilbert): Know what is the best of all confluences. We were caulking in rhythm. That's what we were doing.
0:55:44 - (Mike Rhyner): We were caulking in rhythm.
0:55:48 - (Bruce Gilbert): If somebody else gets it that we just made their day, Ryan, if they don't, you and I can have our own inside joke.
0:55:56 - (Mike Rhyner): Well, you know, I can't thank you enough for doing this, man. I didn't know if you would do it or if you wanted to do it or exactly how it was going to roll out or anything like that, because guys in your position don't normally do things like this, but you did, and, well, I hope I didn't fail. No, no, no. I mean, I've loved going through the stories with you and hearing your. Your take on the things that happened back then, how they happened, why they happened and so forth. Because you had a different vantage point from the rest of us.
0:56:28 - (Bruce Gilbert): I did. I had a good one. I had one that I feel lucky to have lived through and survived.
0:56:36 - (Mike Rhyner): If we could live through that and survive it, we were all damn lucky.
0:56:40 - (Bruce Gilbert): It was a blessing. And then having you as someone that I've known all these years and that I still can consider a friend, that's. That's just an absolute awesome byproduct.
0:56:50 - (Mike Rhyner): That's a very cool thing, man. Back at you.
0:56:52 - (Bruce Gilbert): Yep, likewise.
0:56:53 - (Mike Rhyner): He is the great Bruce Gilbert there. Yeah. Thank you very much for watching this thing today. Now, remember, you can find all episodes on our Patreon page. All the episodes of cute little white AC are right there in front of you, and they're all there for you you to check out. You can also find us on YouTube and you can find us on Spotify. So listen, follow, share us on your social media. And if you like what we're doing here, figure out a way to let us know because that means a lot.
0:57:28 - (Mike Rhyner): In fact, it means everything to those of us who swim in the waters of the podcast. And while we're at it, if you're feeling what we're throwing down, how about a nice review? If you're by the channel on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Help others find us by leaving a review. Thank you, Ashley. Thank you, Shupee. Thank you, Becca. Thank of all of you for being out there by the channel today. And thanks to the great Bruce Gilbert.
0:57:53 - (Mike Rhyner): I'm Mike By. All right, I'm gonna go take my pants off. Your dark companion is a stolen water media presentation.