WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:06.104 --> 00:00:06.794 Adam Hatcher: Hey there. 00:00:06.974 --> 00:00:10.634 Welcome to the 21 Clear Podcast, where we talk about anything to help 00:00:10.634 --> 00:00:14.264 you chaos, proof your family business so you can build a great company 00:00:14.324 --> 00:00:15.794 with a strong family around it. 00:00:16.244 --> 00:00:21.014 I'm your host, Adam Hatcher, the founder of 21 Clear, and today we're 00:00:21.014 --> 00:00:23.564 gonna follow up on our last episode. 00:00:24.014 --> 00:00:25.904 In that episode I laid out. 00:00:25.954 --> 00:00:32.434 The family business framework, a framework for running your family business meetings 00:00:32.494 --> 00:00:37.324 and putting important elements in place with trust building in the center. 00:00:38.069 --> 00:00:41.429 To let you chaos proof your family business. 00:00:41.549 --> 00:00:46.649 And recently Sarah Davis, who was our guest in episode three 00:00:46.829 --> 00:00:50.549 and is the director of Kennesaw State's Family Enterprise Center. 00:00:51.059 --> 00:00:56.669 Sarah invited me to give a webinar on a part of the framework. 00:00:57.209 --> 00:01:03.449 We covered chaos proof hiring with 13 years as a leader and executive in our 00:01:03.449 --> 00:01:07.949 family staffing and recruiting company is something I was quite familiar with. 00:01:08.099 --> 00:01:13.919 And so, this episode and the next episode, we're gonna take that 00:01:13.919 --> 00:01:16.529 webinar and break it into two parts. 00:01:17.999 --> 00:01:23.489 Today we are gonna explore the first part of chaos proof hiring. 00:01:23.699 --> 00:01:25.379 So there are four elements to it. 00:01:25.679 --> 00:01:30.989 Gonna lay out a case for intentional family business hiring, and then lay out 00:01:30.989 --> 00:01:35.759 the first element with an example, and then in the next podcast we'll take the. 00:01:35.969 --> 00:01:41.399 The end of that webinar and we'll lay out the last three steps for you. 00:01:42.149 --> 00:01:46.349 So if you didn't hear the last episode on the framework and you want a bigger 00:01:46.349 --> 00:01:52.199 picture, just walk back to episode four and episode five is gonna be the beginning 00:01:52.199 --> 00:01:57.329 of chaos, proof hiring, and then part two of Chaos Proof Hiring will be episode six. 00:01:57.659 --> 00:02:00.294 So let's jump right into the webinar and I hope you enjoy. 00:02:02.192 --> 00:02:08.102 Today we're gonna touch this idea of how you hire well, or we would say, how 00:02:08.102 --> 00:02:11.192 do you chaos proof your family hiring? 00:02:12.512 --> 00:02:17.762 Because the only way you have a family business is if you've hired one. 00:02:18.302 --> 00:02:19.352 After the founder, 00:02:19.802 --> 00:02:21.872 once you have a family business, you hire. 00:02:22.482 --> 00:02:27.492 My grandfather hired my grandmother on the first day that our 00:02:27.492 --> 00:02:28.992 family's company was started. 00:02:29.472 --> 00:02:33.102 There wasn't really a process, and I'll spare you the story for today, 00:02:33.432 --> 00:02:38.952 but that employment lasted one day and there are lessons in both hiring, 00:02:39.042 --> 00:02:43.122 leaving, running the family business, working well and building trust in 00:02:43.122 --> 00:02:45.677 their single day of working together. 00:02:46.677 --> 00:02:51.417 But what is interesting to me about hiring well and doing it 00:02:51.417 --> 00:02:54.207 intentionally, it is the opposite. 00:02:54.927 --> 00:02:59.397 The opposite of drifting into your mom and dad's company. 00:03:01.077 --> 00:03:04.887 I live here in Augusta and I was on the driving range one day. 00:03:05.727 --> 00:03:08.772 And there's a guy, we will call him Victor, here on the webinar. 00:03:09.322 --> 00:03:10.822 But Victor was hitting next to me. 00:03:10.822 --> 00:03:14.962 We hadn't met, and I asked Victor what he did and he said, you mean what did I do? 00:03:15.687 --> 00:03:16.762 Well, well, tell me about it. 00:03:16.792 --> 00:03:21.772 He said, well, my brother Mo and I took 20 years to build a company together. 00:03:21.772 --> 00:03:23.842 I said, oh, well, and how's the company going? 00:03:23.842 --> 00:03:25.642 He said, well, I don't work there anymore. 00:03:26.782 --> 00:03:27.922 So I asked him what happened. 00:03:28.702 --> 00:03:34.312 He said, well, my nephew, my brother Mo's son, he wanted to join the company. 00:03:35.152 --> 00:03:37.462 And I told him that kid didn't know a thing. 00:03:38.002 --> 00:03:39.862 I told him he didn't work hard. 00:03:39.892 --> 00:03:43.162 He'd always been lazy and I wasn't gonna have him. 00:03:44.962 --> 00:03:49.552 I was interested now, and he said, well, we got in an argument. 00:03:51.082 --> 00:03:55.882 And after a couple of weeks, my brother Mo finally said to me, you know what, Victor, 00:03:56.512 --> 00:04:02.752 if we don't see my son the same way, then we don't see business the same way either. 00:04:03.952 --> 00:04:04.762 And that was the end. 00:04:06.332 --> 00:04:11.452 They didn't have a way to establish whether or not a family member was 00:04:11.452 --> 00:04:13.372 qualified to work for the company. 00:04:13.882 --> 00:04:19.162 And also to working together well, they didn't have a way to resolve conflict 00:04:19.162 --> 00:04:21.172 with each other outside of the business. 00:04:21.892 --> 00:04:24.862 And I tell you all that story, because the end of it actually broke my heart. 00:04:25.142 --> 00:04:27.182 So the brother Victor ends up leaving. 00:04:27.182 --> 00:04:28.562 Mo hire's his son. 00:04:29.172 --> 00:04:32.942 About a year later, Mo tried to get Victor to come back after firing the son. 00:04:33.162 --> 00:04:34.782 Victor had moved on with his career. 00:04:34.782 --> 00:04:38.682 He came back and helped with one customer that was key to him, but never returned. 00:04:39.432 --> 00:04:40.992 And then Mo the brother died. 00:04:42.072 --> 00:04:48.312 Leaving his widow with a company that was not well run with a family 00:04:48.312 --> 00:04:52.182 that was strained and a son who was estranged away from them. 00:04:53.142 --> 00:04:56.262 When I say it's not a problem, it's chaos. 00:04:56.712 --> 00:05:01.692 When they say that chaos can get into a family company and 00:05:02.082 --> 00:05:03.792 rip up a company and a family. 00:05:04.197 --> 00:05:08.337 That's the stakes when we work together that we're playing with. 00:05:08.817 --> 00:05:12.237 And that's why focusing on hiring is so important. 00:05:12.297 --> 00:05:16.197 'Cause every one of us that has a family company has to do this. 00:05:16.677 --> 00:05:21.297 So lemme give you, in this family business framework, four steps, and we promised 00:05:21.297 --> 00:05:26.487 at the top you were actually going to be able to get better at hiring family today. 00:05:26.487 --> 00:05:30.307 So my encouragement to you, I believe Kathy Milton, who's on here, is 00:05:30.307 --> 00:05:31.417 around a bunch of other people. 00:05:31.417 --> 00:05:34.117 Kathy, you may not wanna do this on a sheet of paper in front of other 00:05:34.117 --> 00:05:38.467 people, but if you have a sheet of scratch paper, put it out to the side. 00:05:38.497 --> 00:05:40.897 'Cause there's gonna be a couple opportunities for you to draft, 00:05:41.547 --> 00:05:45.357 ways that you can think about chaos proofing your hiring, right? 00:05:45.357 --> 00:05:50.247 So you have four things to chaos proof family hiring. 00:05:50.817 --> 00:05:53.487 The first one is family hiring criteria. 00:05:54.192 --> 00:05:58.872 Then it's a commitment to match family members to actual jobs. 00:05:59.772 --> 00:06:04.602 If you have family criteria and you have a family member who is qualified for an 00:06:04.602 --> 00:06:11.082 actual job in the company, then I'm going to tell you the next step is to say no. 00:06:13.302 --> 00:06:17.592 Meet the family criteria, pair up with an actual job, but then say no. 00:06:17.922 --> 00:06:22.662 And if you get over that third point, that third objection, then it is 00:06:22.662 --> 00:06:27.582 not just drifting into day one, it is actually vigorously onboarding 00:06:27.582 --> 00:06:33.042 family members in a way that is dissimilar to how you onboard family. 00:06:33.942 --> 00:06:36.942 Alright, so family hiring criteria. 00:06:37.692 --> 00:06:40.512 I want to tell you all a personal story. 00:06:41.682 --> 00:06:44.742 I was at my maternal grandfather's funeral. 00:06:44.772 --> 00:06:48.402 My paternal grandfather started our family's company, so different one. 00:06:49.092 --> 00:06:51.992 I was at my maternal grandfather's funeral. 00:06:52.762 --> 00:06:57.262 We were at the reception after my grandfather's funeral, and one of his 00:06:57.262 --> 00:07:00.312 friends who'd been in a civic group with him who was older, talked to me 00:07:00.312 --> 00:07:05.622 in the line and I asked him what he did and he had spent about 35 or 40 00:07:05.622 --> 00:07:08.262 years scaling a business with his son. 00:07:08.802 --> 00:07:13.602 And so I asked him, what's going to happen for your family company next? 00:07:14.412 --> 00:07:19.182 He told me that he was so proud of his son, said he went to Georgia 00:07:19.242 --> 00:07:22.212 Tech and he got an engineering degree, and they were an engineering 00:07:22.212 --> 00:07:25.332 firm, and said Georgia Tech, 00:07:25.332 --> 00:07:29.292 and he's worked with me for 25 years and he's learned all the different 00:07:29.292 --> 00:07:34.182 functions and my clients love him, the employees love him, and he's really 00:07:34.182 --> 00:07:39.252 let me become chairman and I am just, I look forward to turning it over. 00:07:39.252 --> 00:07:44.022 We hadn't quite worked out the ownership yet, but my son can take 00:07:44.022 --> 00:07:48.702 over and I was, again, remember I'm at my grandfather's funeral just 00:07:49.002 --> 00:07:54.362 getting appetizers off of a buffet and I said, wow, you are so fortunate. 00:07:54.902 --> 00:07:57.992 That is not the story for so many people. 00:07:59.102 --> 00:08:03.902 That was a mistake to say, because then he said, oh, well yeah, it's not all 00:08:03.902 --> 00:08:09.242 that good because my son wants to hire my grandson, and that kid's an idiot. 00:08:10.232 --> 00:08:12.092 He said, he doesn't know anything. 00:08:12.092 --> 00:08:16.712 My son's gonna hire him one day and that boy is gonna tear down everything that 00:08:16.712 --> 00:08:19.202 we have spent three decades building. 00:08:21.002 --> 00:08:26.342 And I took a breath and thought about this idea of family hiring criteria 00:08:26.342 --> 00:08:30.662 and I said, well, let me ask you, have you and your son ever sat down and 00:08:30.662 --> 00:08:36.002 made a list together of if any family member ever wants to join the company? 00:08:36.692 --> 00:08:40.322 What they would have to do before they were even considered. 00:08:40.352 --> 00:08:40.982 He said, no. 00:08:41.042 --> 00:08:41.972 I said, well, lemme tell you this. 00:08:42.212 --> 00:08:46.622 I said, in my experience with family businesses and family owners, I can tell 00:08:46.622 --> 00:08:52.622 you this, family owners don't like making lists and they absolutely don't like 00:08:52.622 --> 00:08:55.082 being governed by the lists they make. 00:08:56.462 --> 00:09:05.732 But it's way better to argue about bullet points on a criteria list than it is to 00:09:05.732 --> 00:09:07.802 talk about the intelligence of a grandson. 00:09:08.642 --> 00:09:15.342 So what I encouraged him to do is first what is family hiring criteria? 00:09:15.792 --> 00:09:18.192 It is a written list 00:09:20.682 --> 00:09:29.592 that is for family members, before they can be considered for the job, any job. 00:09:29.592 --> 00:09:33.682 So note this is not I was hired into our family's company as the general counsel. 00:09:33.862 --> 00:09:37.942 This never asked the question, is Adam qualified as an attorney to be 00:09:37.942 --> 00:09:39.382 the general counsel of the company? 00:09:39.652 --> 00:09:45.772 It's a prerequisite list and whatever you put on the list, the two most important 00:09:45.772 --> 00:09:50.362 things in creating it is that first you actually do it, and then you're 00:09:50.362 --> 00:09:53.062 as specific as you possibly can be. 00:09:53.932 --> 00:09:58.852 So I want to pull back our curtain and show you the list 00:09:59.092 --> 00:10:00.622 that our family company had. 00:10:02.482 --> 00:10:07.162 I wanna tell you before I do though, my father wrote this list 00:10:07.162 --> 00:10:11.662 when the company was at about $50 million top line and was regional. 00:10:12.262 --> 00:10:15.892 It was increasing and it was an increasingly complex organization. 00:10:16.222 --> 00:10:21.282 I joined in 2010, so when he created this, we had not gone through 2008 00:10:21.282 --> 00:10:22.662 yet, or we're just in the middle. 00:10:22.662 --> 00:10:26.652 I'm sorry, we're in the middle of the 2008, 2009 crisis. 00:10:26.742 --> 00:10:28.122 So he's writing the list in that. 00:10:28.122 --> 00:10:33.132 But he knows that the company's gonna bounce back and he knows that the demands 00:10:33.132 --> 00:10:37.902 of the company, the customers that it sells to, were global and publicly traded 00:10:37.902 --> 00:10:42.852 clients, meaning the sophistication and the demands were gonna keep going up. 00:10:43.482 --> 00:10:47.932 And so if the grandfather I had been talking to at my grandfather's 00:10:47.932 --> 00:10:50.962 funeral made a list, his list and our list weren't gonna be the same. 00:10:50.962 --> 00:10:53.722 So I'm gonna show you ours, just as an example. 00:10:53.992 --> 00:10:56.662 So I am in law school. 00:10:56.932 --> 00:11:00.712 My brother is in college, my sister was in high school, and we all got 00:11:00.712 --> 00:11:02.212 the same letter from our father. 00:11:02.782 --> 00:11:07.612 And it said, I don't know if the Lord will ever call you back or you'll ever 00:11:07.612 --> 00:11:09.832 feel a call to join the family company. 00:11:09.832 --> 00:11:12.292 But if so, five things have to be true. 00:11:12.952 --> 00:11:14.932 First, you have to graduate from college. 00:11:15.472 --> 00:11:18.202 Second, you have to have a degree from graduate school, not a 00:11:18.202 --> 00:11:19.702 specific type of graduate school. 00:11:19.702 --> 00:11:22.942 My brother got an MBA, I went to law school, but you have 00:11:22.942 --> 00:11:24.082 to have a graduate degree. 00:11:25.162 --> 00:11:27.532 You have to go work somewhere else. 00:11:27.912 --> 00:11:31.542 That is not unique in family companies requiring working somewhere else. 00:11:31.752 --> 00:11:37.452 However he added to that, you must get promoted somewhere else. 00:11:37.722 --> 00:11:45.042 And then lastly, he said, your life needs to be reflective of Christian values. 00:11:45.102 --> 00:11:46.962 Now I want you to read into that real quick. 00:11:47.262 --> 00:11:51.312 What he was doing, the company is a for-profit, privately held company that 00:11:51.312 --> 00:11:53.412 holds itself out as being faith-based. 00:11:53.652 --> 00:11:58.062 He wanted to make sure that any family member that joined could work 00:11:58.062 --> 00:12:03.972 in a company that held itself out as having particular faith principles. 00:12:04.932 --> 00:12:09.072 And so that list isn't gonna be your list. 00:12:09.252 --> 00:12:12.192 You have a different family, you have a different company, 00:12:12.342 --> 00:12:14.022 you have different customers. 00:12:14.532 --> 00:12:16.242 But there are three things. 00:12:17.172 --> 00:12:19.962 If I broke his list down, it really had three things in it. 00:12:20.742 --> 00:12:23.292 First, it had education requirements. 00:12:23.712 --> 00:12:26.412 Second, it had experience requirements. 00:12:27.222 --> 00:12:33.292 And third, it worked to have an alignment with the culture of the organization. 00:12:33.922 --> 00:12:36.502 And I wanna touch experience and education real quick. 00:12:36.502 --> 00:12:38.512 And here's something I love about what he did. 00:12:39.202 --> 00:12:42.802 He told me once, Adam, I graduated from Georgia on a Friday. 00:12:43.162 --> 00:12:45.472 I went to work at the family company on a Monday. 00:12:46.072 --> 00:12:51.022 The only person who ever gave me a job was either my father by promotion or 00:12:51.022 --> 00:12:52.492 the day I bought the company from him. 00:12:52.942 --> 00:12:57.382 I want you to always know that you have value outside of this organization and 00:12:57.382 --> 00:13:03.172 outside of my eyes when you come to work here, I also need you to go get experience 00:13:03.562 --> 00:13:07.912 that we could never get without people who have worked outside and brought it in. 00:13:08.242 --> 00:13:12.082 And so what he was doing with this list for any family member who 00:13:12.082 --> 00:13:16.372 joined in an increasingly complex organization, he wanted them to be part 00:13:16.432 --> 00:13:21.682 of the future of the company with our particular clients, but also always 00:13:21.892 --> 00:13:24.202 have their own independent identity. 00:13:24.532 --> 00:13:28.102 'Cause if you've ever worked with family, you know how difficult that can be. 00:13:29.062 --> 00:13:31.372 So that's our list and that's the concept. 00:13:32.762 --> 00:13:36.362 If you have your side sheet of paper, I want you to try this real quick. 00:13:37.052 --> 00:13:37.232 Okay. 00:13:37.232 --> 00:13:39.812 So just a grid, we're gonna work over to you. 00:13:39.812 --> 00:13:41.642 So there's those five criteria. 00:13:41.642 --> 00:13:45.662 I said he put in a letter, let's assume your family business is 00:13:45.662 --> 00:13:47.552 X, Y, Z manufacturing company. 00:13:48.152 --> 00:13:49.472 Let's just give a different example. 00:13:49.712 --> 00:13:52.042 So let's say they sent a similar letter. 00:13:52.042 --> 00:13:58.042 It might say that before any family member comes to work for X, Y, Z, they 00:13:58.042 --> 00:13:59.692 need to have an engineering degree. 00:13:59.752 --> 00:14:03.652 And again, I'm gonna encourage you to get specific with your criteria, not 00:14:03.652 --> 00:14:06.412 just go to college or go to school, okay? 00:14:06.622 --> 00:14:10.812 An engineering degree from a US news, top 100 university. 00:14:11.712 --> 00:14:13.032 And then for experience. 00:14:13.317 --> 00:14:17.667 You've got to work outside the company for three years and have become 00:14:17.667 --> 00:14:20.097 a manager of at least one person. 00:14:20.307 --> 00:14:24.177 See, that's different than the way my father phrased it for our company. 00:14:24.717 --> 00:14:26.967 And then lastly, the cultural alignment. 00:14:28.017 --> 00:14:31.827 When we do a reference check on you, your references need 00:14:31.827 --> 00:14:33.237 to talk about your humility. 00:14:33.357 --> 00:14:37.737 Let's assume humility is a big part of the culture of that company, and we 00:14:37.737 --> 00:14:38.967 don't want you to have an arrest record. 00:14:39.987 --> 00:14:42.837 You can write this in your family hiring criteria. 00:14:43.077 --> 00:14:43.137 Okay? 00:14:43.137 --> 00:14:48.687 So you can see what these criteria do is it communicates to the family, 00:14:49.317 --> 00:14:54.687 their education experience, and cultural prerequisites, and none 00:14:54.687 --> 00:14:59.097 of these have anything to do with actual skills and fit to a job. 00:14:59.757 --> 00:15:00.837 So take just a second. 00:15:02.607 --> 00:15:04.407 And think about your own company. 00:15:04.977 --> 00:15:09.207 If you have someone in your family who is, maybe you have family who are about to 00:15:09.207 --> 00:15:11.667 graduate from college or in high school. 00:15:11.917 --> 00:15:18.607 Maybe you have nieces or nephews who may be in kindergarten, but your cousin, 00:15:18.637 --> 00:15:22.837 your sister-in-law, your aunt, someone has asked you, Hey, might they ever 00:15:22.837 --> 00:15:24.427 have an opportunity to work with you? 00:15:24.487 --> 00:15:27.577 These questions come up earlier than any of us think. 00:15:29.047 --> 00:15:34.687 So think if you had your way, what education would you wanna make sure 00:15:34.777 --> 00:15:36.667 any family member who joined had? 00:15:38.347 --> 00:15:44.617 And then what experiences outside the organization would you want them to have? 00:15:46.687 --> 00:15:48.577 And then think through your core values. 00:15:49.447 --> 00:15:54.007 Pick one, pick two, or just the cultural behaviors your company 00:15:54.007 --> 00:15:55.267 and its leaders are known for. 00:15:56.137 --> 00:15:57.187 What's one of those? 00:15:57.187 --> 00:15:58.507 What's two of those? 00:15:59.062 --> 00:16:02.212 You wanna make sure every family member is aligned to. 00:16:04.282 --> 00:16:06.322 Education, experience, cultural alignment. 00:16:06.442 --> 00:16:08.302 That's family hiring criteria. 00:16:08.902 --> 00:16:12.412 That's the first step in chaos proofing family hiring. 00:16:13.282 --> 00:16:16.132 And now I want to celebrate you. 00:16:16.312 --> 00:16:16.552 Okay? 00:16:16.582 --> 00:16:21.352 If you took a minute, Kathy Milton, no matter where you are. 00:16:21.442 --> 00:16:24.292 Yeah, Kathy logged in first, so I just picked on her a couple times. 00:16:24.682 --> 00:16:30.052 If you just did this, I wanna celebrate you because here's what's so hard 00:16:30.082 --> 00:16:31.642 about a family business, right? 00:16:31.942 --> 00:16:36.232 So I know running an organization day in and day out is hard. 00:16:36.352 --> 00:16:38.122 It's hard to do strategic planning. 00:16:38.212 --> 00:16:39.622 It's hard to make the time. 00:16:39.622 --> 00:16:40.942 It's hard to have the discipline. 00:16:41.242 --> 00:16:43.332 If it's hard enough to argue with customers, 00:16:43.332 --> 00:16:46.242 it's certainly hard to argue with each other about value propositions. 00:16:46.542 --> 00:16:48.132 But this is even harder. 00:16:48.702 --> 00:16:50.622 This is doing inner family business work. 00:16:50.622 --> 00:16:52.602 And the family business has no revenue. 00:16:52.812 --> 00:16:57.102 It has no customers, but it sits right in the heart of the organization. 00:16:57.162 --> 00:16:59.712 And if it's healthy, it can help the organization reach 00:16:59.712 --> 00:17:01.242 full value with a strong family. 00:17:01.452 --> 00:17:05.982 And if it's not, all of it can go away spectacularly. 00:17:06.252 --> 00:17:09.372 And so what you just did maybe for the first time? 00:17:09.372 --> 00:17:12.102 Well, not really, 'cause this is the Kennesaw State Family Enterprise Center. 00:17:13.557 --> 00:17:17.307 But maybe for today, maybe the first time today you've thought 00:17:17.307 --> 00:17:20.547 about that inner family business and taken a step at making it 00:17:20.557 --> 00:17:21.037 healthy. 00:17:21.547 --> 00:17:23.017 So congratulations to you. 00:17:23.497 --> 00:17:25.177 Alright, that's step one. 00:17:25.687 --> 00:17:27.937 Now let's go to step two. 00:17:29.919 --> 00:17:33.744 That is the end of the first part of the Kennesaw State 00:17:33.844 --> 00:17:35.944 Family Enterprise Center webinar. 00:17:37.029 --> 00:17:41.889 In the next episode, we're gonna finish that and go through the last 00:17:41.889 --> 00:17:44.379 three elements of chaos, proof hiring. 00:17:44.859 --> 00:17:48.399 I hope this has helped you think about your inner family business a bit. 00:17:48.579 --> 00:17:53.499 This is the kind of topic when you have family meetings that you both create, 00:17:53.739 --> 00:17:58.209 debate, and communicate, and so I hope this was a helpful podcast for you. 00:17:58.389 --> 00:18:01.179 Look forward to sharing the rest of it with you in episode six. 00:18:02.469 --> 00:18:05.439 I appreciate you subscribing and following. 00:18:05.649 --> 00:18:08.739 We do have a monthly newsletter and post content on LinkedIn as 00:18:08.739 --> 00:18:10.569 well that I hope is helpful to you. 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.339 I appreciate you joining, as my grandfather would've said. 00:18:15.639 --> 00:18:18.459 Thank you so very, very much for listening.