Kevin: Subspace Radio.
It's me, Kevin.
Rob: And me, Rob.
Kevin: And we're here to talk about Lower Decks Season 5,
Episode 4, A Farewell to Farms.
Rob: Love a good bit of wordplay, Kevin, and Lower Decks knocks
it out of the park every week.
Week in, week out.
Kevin: And then in the second half we will, uh, say hello to farms and
talk about, uh, some other farms in Star Trek that, uh, that we remember.
Rob: Farming!
Star Trek!
Does it work?
Kevin: Does it make sense?
Rob: Does it make sense?
Is there, is there a place?
Is this, how does this work?
Kevin: Well, something we learned in, uh, This episode of Lower Decks is that
Klingon farms aren't so different from, uh, from the farms we know and love.
Their food, we know, looks very different.
Apparently worms are a big deal.
And there is a certain amount of gagh squirming out of the
ground in, in, in this farm.
But other than that, it was pretty conventional by Earth standards.
Rob: we had, you know, Klingon version of the overalls, and we had Klingon
versions of wide brim straw hats.
Kevin: And plows and apparently targs are the equivalent of Earth pigs.
Rob: They are turning into, yeah,
Kevin: We thought they were dogs.
It turns out they're more like pigs.
Rob: People do own pigs as pets, so, you know, no casting shade here.
Kevin: Yeah.
So Ma'ah, Mariner's friend, uh, from the, the planet with the glass
rain is a farmer, it turns out.
Rob: After being, yes, after being you know, losing his captaincy and, um,
has been sort of like, shuffled back into disgrace to go live on the family
farm with his, uh, his brother that they don't really seem to connect.
Kevin: No, his brother, Malor, who's, who's very much, a stoner
Klingon is what I would call him.
Rob: I, I really like him.
Kevin: He was hilarious.
Rob: I'm just gonna say, I really like this episode.
This was really good.
This
Kevin: It was a good episode.
It got me right from the beginning, just the, the, uh, the different title
treatment they did and a bit of the, uh, a bit of the movie score coming
in to set the, the relaxed start.
Rob: It was very cinematic, wasn't it?
So like, especially, you know, the, the wide vista shots of the, the, the shuttles
coming down to land over this wide,
Kevin: I thought we were getting this season's basically movie episode.
It seems like a lot of these seasons have had kind of a movie episode and
this felt like, I thought any second the lens flares were going to come
in and we would go extra widescreen.
Rob: But yeah, it's definitely getting that sense of, what I like to call,
you know, salt to the earth moments, where you get all the high convoluted
sci fi stuff and species, but gets down to it as that sort of like,
representation of rural America that, that, America is still so fascinated
with, um, as going, this is what.
This is what it is to be real.
This is, this is real humble living.
Kevin: Yeah.
And it was a nice change of pace.
I, I don't know if I've talked about this on the podcast before, but
I've, I've always struggled with the modern animated comedy's pace.
Like a lot of these.
Um, these cartoons for adults, they move at such a breakneck pace that I
find there's just no air left in them at all to get to know the characters
and immerse yourself in the world, because it's joke, joke, joke.
Um, and Lower Decks is certainly at times guilty of that as well, but it's so well
executed that I can't help loving it despite, uh, the fact that that's, that
particular format is not to my taste.
But here at the start of the episode, at least it, it, it opened up a bit in
a way that, um, yeah, made me see what this show could be if it was a full
hour per episode instead of these half hour ones and I think I would enjoy it
more if it was at this pace more often.
Rob: Yeah, it's definitely been one of the ha was one of the harder
obstacles to overcome once you f
Kevin: to make Star Trek feel like it fits in this, in this pace, you mean.
Rob: Yeah, and I know a lot of people were turned off by Lower
Decks because of that rapid fire
Kevin: Oh yeah, my parents are lifelong Star Trek fans and this is
the one show they refuse to watch.
Rob: Yeah yeah.
And yeah, they've even brought that up with the crossover episode with
Strange New Worlds, with just how quickly, you know, Mariner and,
uh, and Boimler talk, even in their humanoid, three dimensional form.
Um, but, uh, they, when they do take those moments to slow it down, like, even some
of the episodes where they've gone back to Orion, and they've taken those time,
the time to show the landscape of Orion, and the, and the, the properties, and all
the the all the buildings and stuff like that they can take that time, but they,
this definitely felt something different.
And it did, you know, to be honest, it felt like something a little bit special.
I was watching this going, this is really cool.
This is a nice, the change of the music and the type of shots we were getting.
And to lead into just, you know, two brothers arguing, um, on the farm, one
not being able to cope with being a farmer, the other one so living his best
farmer life in the most lackadaisical way, um, is, you know, that whole thing
of they may be from a different planet and a different species, but they're
us, we're all, and we're each other.
Kevin: And for contrast, back on the Cerritos, we have Dr.
Migleemo, coming face to face with, um, his, his culture, which we,
we learned this episode that his species is called the Cloacans.
Um, nice reference to avian anatomy there.
Rob: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And a lot of them speak like they're coming from that part of the body as well.
Kevin: And he meets two food critics who are, who are basically, uh,
worshipped as, uh, as near deities in his culture, uh, Legnog and Gonald.
And Legnog, I'm going to say now, is the funniest name I
have ever heard in Star Trek.
Rob: Well, it was interesting, like they did a lot of backstory
stuff in a short amount of time.
A lot of exposition from Migleemo about like their culture
primarily based in cuisine.
Kevin: Yeah, we invented warp drive in order to find new foods.
Rob: To see out new food and new restaurant, yeah, degustations.
Kevin: When he, when he welcomes them in the shuttle bay, and they like, Have
you, have you even discovered any foods?
He goes, I've encountered a few chowders.
Rob: I mean this was a great episode because Migleemo has been
so infuriatingly infuriating.
and that's what he's been set up is to come in, be the infuriating
source and then get out.
Kevin: Now discover he's comparatively tolerable.
Yeah.
Rob: That's great sci-fi writing where you go, this intolerable
one, he's, he's a picnic compared to the rest of his culture.
Um, and how he's found his place within psychology, uh, and that's always been a
bit of a joke, but the, I mean, I don't wanna jump ahead, but that revelation
at the end is, like, so Columbo, and so using psychology to be, like, this
detective figuring everything out, and the shot of him in the background, in the
profile, just going, this type of case is called, and you go, oh, incredible.
Kevin: Therapy, my good Gonald.
I cook the mind.
Rob: That's right!
Kevin: So yes, this was the madcap comedy story that was like, you know,
an inch deep, but provided the hilarious energy as a contrast to what was going
on on the Klingon homeworld, which, you know, it had some comedy itself as well.
We had, uh, we had the increasingly bearded Boimler
going through a Klingon phase.
Rob: He's got his Mo now.
Kevin: He's got his mow in.
Yeah, the beard's taking a little longer for some reason.
Rob: I do love how Lower Decks is able to get that perfect balance of
not making fun of a culture, an alien culture, but respecting it but also
having fun with it at the same time.
They, there is no way where they're bagging the hell out of Klingons, but
they're having so much fun with it, so you can laugh as well as going, no,
they're respecting this culture so much.
Kevin: The, uh, the rite of forced conscription, I was right
up against that line for me.
Rob: Just having, having Boimler so excited to be injured and beaten
up to be a part of the culture?
Kevin: We are seeing a dramatically different Boimler every single episode.
And it seems like they, they realized that risk and decided to lean
into it instead of correcting it.
So Boimler is erratic to say the least this season, but it kinda works for him.
Rob: Look, for this one, for this episode in particular, because you've
got, you know, the soul searching mission of losing their place within,
Ma'ah, his position within his culture.
And to have an outsider know more about the culture, in some ways,
always hilarious when you go that, Well, actually, I'll correct I'll
I'll I'll Klingon splain to you.
Kevin: He mewls correctly!
Rob: Heh heh heh heh
heh.
Kevin: It's strange what they're doing with Boimler because I'm sure it's going
to play into the big story for the season, but at least at this point, it almost
feels like Boimler, who's like one of the two leads of this series, has regressed
into a bit of a caricature of a character.
Mariner still feels fully fledged and like, I could tell that she was hiding
something from Ma'ah when she called him up and made the excuse of she had to
return a Klingon bone to the bone museum.
Thought there's, there's something else there, and that feels rich.
But in a way, uh, Boimler's feeling the opposite of rich at the moment.
He's feeling like, um, a cartoon, if you'll, if you'll
permit the, uh, the phrase.
Rob: Seeming a bit one note, seeming
Kevin: Yeah, exactly.
They're picking a different note each episode, but he's only playing that note.
Rob: And we're not sure where that's leading to, I think is, yeah.
I know it's like connected to his finding his alternate version of
himself, but it seems like, what's the endgame here, what are we trying to
Kevin: Yeah, it feels like, it feels like it's, he's going to play a different
extreme over compensation every single episode, and then at the end he's going
to learn the value of being himself, or something, and it's gonna be like, really?
Did we need an entire season to make that arc work?
Uh, I don't know, I will, I will be sad if that's all Boimler gets this season.
Rob: Hmm, definitely.
Um, uh, I did like him having a bit of a reference back to his time on the Titan.
Um, that was a, a nice little callback that fitted into, you
Kevin: Yeah, was on one of the coolest ships in Starfleet, we
all know what he's talking about.
Rob: Um, but yeah, and like, the working out of problems were sort of
like, you know, one person at a time could not handle that extreme level
of pain, but if they all jump on
Kevin: Yeah, I love a, I love a, a march through the pain sticks.
That's good stuff as well.
I'll tell you what, this episode draws me in, has, drew me in more than any
of the previous episodes this season.
I've watched it twice.
And the first time I completely forgot that I was going to be
recording a podcast about it.
And the second time I was like, all right, this is my note taking watch.
And I stopped taking notes halfway through because I was
enjoying the episode so much.
So it really drew me in.
Rob: Just, just great stuff in there.
I love the family dynamic stuff.
The two brothers work really well, and one who's content and happy to just
be a slob on the farm, the other one who's deeply out of place and doesn't
feel at home on the farm, or really back in Klingon culture, and trying
to, trying to flirt at the bar but not really working and, and she wants
only a particular type of Klingon.
And to see that journey and what he achieved at the end and that beautiful
ending, beautiful ending when they just get that little ship and the two
of them work together to make it work.
I'm going, that's some, that's some great stuff to bring to a Klingon culture that
has only, you know, has evolved so much that hasn't gone beyond that point of
where we, where we were at with, um, Worf within Deep Space Nine, where, you
know, you do a Klingon centric episode where it's warfare, these are honorable
warriors, and uh, you know, uh, Worf's trying to find his place in there.
Adding these other layers to what it means to be a Klingon.
Kevin: Yeah.
And some of those layers were familiar.
Like we had the petty dictator who, uh, was hoisted by his own
petard by the end of the episode.
That's, yeah, and that's always good, good Klingon stuff.
Rob: And yeah, the machinations behind the scenes and figuring
Kevin: Yeah.
Yeah.
A council, albeit a small one in this case, with a corrupt Klingon on a throne.
It's a pretty familiar setting.
Um, uh, but I, I loved what they did with it.
And like you said, they took, they took that familiar premise just a little
further than we're used to seeing.
Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kevin: The, uh, the dimensional holes at the end were enticing.
They look, to me, exactly the same color as the dimensional hole that the Cerritos
got sucked into in our first episode.
And I feel, I think, it's been subtle up until this point, but there has
been a passing mention of, like, Shades of Green, I believe, uh, there was
some mention of, of, uh, there being like tears in space or something.
And definitely the Nanite Hotel episode, last, uh, one, we had the miniature, um,
starship that, that came, crossed into the universe through a tiny dimensional hole.
Rob: Right.
And, admiral, admiral Sunburn had to, uh, sort a way of getting them
back into the right dimension.
Kevin: That's right.
So I think it's becoming very conspicuous.
If, if by the next episode, someone doesn't say, there sure are a
lot of dimensional holes all of a sudden, I will be very surprised.
But this feels like the building threat or challenge or story.
And, um, yeah, mark my words.
I think it's all going to link back to that alternate Cerritos
in, in the first episode.
Rob: That's, that's good, that's good homework and good observation, because,
you know, as, as I mentioned so, like, earlier on, and they're going, yeah,
wow, no real, no real, uh, arcs coming through, as opposed to last season,
where they ended each episode with the destruction of something, or and
so, that's how obvious I need it to be to go, that's a story arc, Rob.
Kevin: I like that it's a bit subtle this time.
Rob: Oh, very much so, very much so.
And so then you can do, go back and go, Oh, they mentioned
that there and this there.
Kevin: Feels like a great correction to the, this Star Trek pattern in
recent years where it's like episode one, galaxy threatening threat.
Episodes two through nine, stringing it out.
10, they solve threat.
Um, this one is like, yeah, let's tell some great stories, but
there is, there is something going on if you're paying attention.
Rob: And the further we get into the season, the more obvious we'll
make it so that Rob Lloyd can pick it up and go, you know what?
I think they're doing something here.
Ooh, those dimensions.
Sure.
You brought it up first, but there we go.
Kevin: All right.
Well, let's, uh, let's talk about some farms.
I've, uh, I picked, I picked the first farm that came to mind
because it was in an episode that we haven't drilled into lately.
Um, what did you find?
Rob: Um, I was at, well, there, we did talk about this episode, an episode, uh,
before that in, has farming in it, in a different episode, which was, uh, uh,
Paradise with Deep Space Nine, where the,
Kevin: Sisko in a box.
Rob: Yes.
But I do have a uh, another Deep Space Nine episode where farming is there, and
Kevin: Hehehehe.
All right.
Well, likewise, the farming in my episode is not the point.
So we can maybe briefly compare and contrast our farms.
Um, yeah.
I did also think of, uh, the pilot episode of Enterprise, Broken Bow.
It starts in like a cornfield.
Klingon running through the cornfield into the silo and the silo exploding.
There's not much going on there other than there are apparently still cornfields,
still silos, and still shotguns, although they shoot silo exploding charges.
But, uh, yeah.
Farms are still a thing, we see.
Rob: Apparently.
Yeah.
Well, you got to have, you know, that, you know, that Iowa
type of, you know, James T.
Kirk upbringing type of
Kevin: I wonder if they had randomly said a different state of the United States.
Like if he had said, I'm from California, would we have tons of conspicuous
surfing through Star Trek history?
Rob: Was it?
Was it mentioned earlier than in Star Trek?
Um, Star Trek IV.
one
Kevin: I'm I'm only work in space.
I'm from
Rob: No I'm from Iowa, only.
I'm there going, was it mentioned before?
I know Tiberius was mentioned.
Kevin: I think you might be right.
I think that might be established in Star Trek IV.
Rob: Hey, look at that.
Kevin: Okay, my, my main, uh, episode that I wanted to look at was from Star Trek
The Original Series, Season 1, Episode 25.
25, Rob?!
Rob: Two five!
Kevin: I'm just gonna double check that because it seems almost unbelievable.
Yes, indeed.
Episode 25 of the first season of
Rob: So that's the season finale?
Kevin: Uh, well, they, they kind of aired them out of order back then.
Rob: That's right, yeah.
Kevin: It was the 24th episode released, but the 25th, or 26th
produced if you count the, uh, the two parter as two, two episodes.
Anyway, this is, uh, This Side of Paradise.
We've talked about before as a too good to be true planet.
Uh, the planet in question is Omicron Ceti III, which is being bombarded by
Berthold Rays, and in the, uh, in the, um, remastered version of the episode,
the planet has conspicuous teal auroras in the atmosphere throughout it, just to
indicate this, this bombarding radiation.
Rob: Love a good teal aurora.
Kevin: The, uh, the premise of the episode is It is a little confusing,
at least as it appears on screen.
The Enterprise is going to this planet because they have lost touch
with the colonists who went there.
But on the way they say, the planet is bombarded with Berthold
Rays, which destroy, um, organic life within a matter of weeks.
Rob: Yeah.
Uhhuh.
Kevin: And the colonists knew that going in.
And, and, Kirk's like, so you're telling me they knowingly
walked into their own demise?
And Spock, uh, says a typically cagey line, I'm saying
they knew there was a risk.
So it's unclear.
They are presumed dead, but they were also presumed to know that
they were going to their deaths.
So I'm not sure what mission the Enterprise is being sent on.
Rob: Yeah, okay, well
Kevin: But in, at, the end of the cold open, Kirk and crew have beamed down and
discovered the colonists are alive and well, and it's completely inexplicable.
Rob: Ah.
Kevin: So this is the premise of the episode and we get to, at this point,
before we start to see what is going on, we get a tour of this colony, and
we are told that it is a farming colony.
Um, the, the head of the colonists says, Our philosophy is a simple one, that
men should return to a simpler life.
We have few mechanical things here, no vehicles, no weapons.
We have harmony here, complete peace.
Um, and there is, There is a little bit of raking the fields.
There is someone pulling a bucket out of a well.
And someone chopping wood.
Those are the, that is the extent of the farming that we
get to see in this episode.
Rob: No animals?
Kevin: An important plot point that there are no animals.
Sulu and a yellow shirt, whose name I've forgotten because we never
see him again, uh, they investigate the, uh, the farming setup because
Kirk's like, something's wrong here.
These people shouldn't be alive.
See what you can find out.
And what they find out is that there are no animals.
They, they look in the barn and discover there's no cows in the barn, Rob.
Smoking gun.
Rob: Mooingun?
Kevin: There's no cows in the barn.
Let alone that, the barn was not even designed to house cows.
It's only for storage.
This is the, this is the shock, um, discovery that that, is in the dialogue.
Rob: What betrayal is going on here?
What mass deception?
Kevin: Um, yeah, no animals.
Sulu says, No horses, no pigs, not even a dog.
Uh, and they, they confront Sandoval.
Sandoval is the name of the, uh,
Rob: That's a good, good name, good
Kevin: Kirk, uh, confronts Sandoval about it and he goes,
Eh, we're, we're vegetarians.
Ha, ha.
Rob: That's 1960s America, that's highly suspicious.
Kevin: So we can infer that the animals did indeed die from the Berthold Rays.
But colonists did not.
And the, the twist comes when, um, people start getting shot by
spores from flowers, and they become deliriously happy as a result, and,
uh, no one wants to leave the colony.
This spreads to the Enterprise crew members who start beaming the plants up
to the ship and beaming crew members down.
And, uh, the plan is to abandon the Enterprise to
have, uh, to live in paradise.
Kirk is the last one to go.
Rob: Of course.
Kevin: Um, and he, he manages to figure out at the last minute, while under the
influence, he, he goes to his quarters to pack his medals, and then he goes to the
transporter room, and as he's about to transport himself down, he has a William
Shatner solo scene with himself, where he, he gets angry at what he's about to do.
He's like, No!
I cannot leave my ship!
And in that moment snaps out of it and he realizes that primitive emotions like
rage break the influence of the spores.
So he was just so enraged at abandoning his own ship, as any captain would be,
that he snapped out of it, and then, uh, yeah, he, uh, he beams up Spock and
has a fistfight with him to snap him out
Rob: Of course, yep, yep, yep, yep, this all makes
Kevin: Uh, then they, uh, They uh, They rescue the rest of the crew and colonists
who, uh, who once freed of the spores' influence are happy to be on their way.
Because when Sandoval snaps out of it, he's just on his knees, having been
hit in the face by Captain Kirk, and he goes, We've accomplished nothing.
Rob: Hehehe, we don't even have a dog!
Kevin: That's right.
But, uh, coming back to our, our theme of farms, it is, um, yeah,
it, it, they, they clearly got a good deal on someone's farmland in
order to shoot on because it's, it's very much like primitive farmhouses.
It is, you see, uh, uh, a wooden horse drawn carriage with no horses, uh, at
one point, there's a barn and yeah, when they're in the farmhouse, it's got like
the, you know, metal primitive teapot and curtains and, and wooden furniture.
It's, it's very much back to the, back to the, uh, primitive times.
Rob: Very much Wild West type of feel, that
Kevin: It is very Wild West type of feel.
Yeah, there, yeah.
Uh, the, the only thing that makes it kind of spacey is that all the colonists
are wearing, um, grey jumpsuits, stone grey jumpsuits, head to toe.
Um, which yeah, I guess makes him look a bit spacey, but other than that it's,
yeah, it's like Kirk and crew, uh, walk around a farm for, for 45 minutes.
Rob: It is like, like you were saying about their decision to do this and
because, you know, man, not humankind, should go back to a simpler time, a
more peaceful time, that is paradise.
And that's a key thing that very
Kevin: That was a recurring trope.
It's like, yeah, modern world is getting too fast and too mechanical.
Let's go back to, uh, to the, the land.
Rob: It does seem to me to be very much of an American culture thing.
Very much comes from, you know, you're of the land, you're people of the land,
Kevin: Like the pilgrims did.
Rob: Yes, that you can be, you know, advancement in some ways can't be trusted.
And if it, if it's something that you can make or you can create on your own, with
your own hands, that is to be trusted,
Kevin: Yeah, your value is, is, comes from your ability to tame
the land with your bare hands.
Rob: Yeah!
And that's like that whole American dream in some ways, of anyone can make
it if you do, if you just work hard.
Kevin: It's interesting we don't see some version of that in
modern Star Trek with, like, an environmental message attached to it.
Rob: Exactly, yeah!
And
Kevin: Star Trek still is very much, like, technology can
solve the environmental issue.
Rob: Yeah, I haven't seen much of that appear, of, that's very much of, uh,
an ethos from American culture within 1960s America, and that carries on within
Star Trek, especially once you get to the 90s, um, and how they represent
farming, and how they see that as, cause American, American white, western culture
is quite limited over, you know, nearly 300 years, so their legends come out of
the Wild West and that type of stuff, whereas, you know, you know, Native
American culture goes back thousands of years with its legacy, especially,
you know, European culture and,
yeah, all that type of stuff, but this very specific culture is tied
into these limited, uh, mythologies of, you know, how they romanticize in
some ways that Wild West, uh, living.
Kevin: There's few things that happen in this episode around that,
that I think, uh, Like it, we, we said at the start of the episode,
do farms in Star Trek make sense?
And there's some stuff here that doesn't make sense, but in a way
that feels typically Star Trek farm.
Um, so the, the colonists are, they are referred to as an agricultural colony.
So my understanding of that is that they went out into space to colonize a
barren planet and turn it into a farm, a planet that, like a planet sized farm.
Rob: Right.
Kevin: Um, and one of the things they, that the crew of the Enterprise
notices, this is the line, um, for, for an agricultural colony, they have
actually very little acreage planted.
There's enough to sustain the colony, but very little more.
And so the Enterprise is surprised that they haven't like, planted more
production capacity on the planet.
So I think if not for the, the spores and the Berthold Rays, the, the plan A
for, for this type of colony is that you plant this very fertile planet and create
this, this massive source of, of food for the rest of the Federation somehow.
And there are some problems of scale there that, uh, like, are interesting.
I've, I've read some things about, you know, in, in real life, would it ever
make sense to terraform Mars, for example, and when you do the numbers on that,
uh, unless something dramatic changes in our understanding of space travel,
the energy it would take to get to Mars, to change its atmosphere enough to turn
it into habitable, farmable land, and then to get whatever you would produce
there back to the Earth is astronomical compared to just growing the same
stuff on Earth, in Earth's atmosphere.
Uh, and so it doesn't make sense.
This, This, idea of farming stuff to then, uh, ship it by interstellar travel.
It just does not hold up under any scrutiny.
But this seems to be part of the fictional lore of, of Star Trek.
And we've seen, you know, the, the the, uh, bins of Quadrotriticale in, in The
Trouble with Tribbles, that there is this, like, established, uh, marketplace of
planets that grow a crop and then it is shipped somewhere else for some reason.
Um, so I find that stuff fascinating.
Uh, because it, it is like, it goes, it goes right by when you're watching
the, the show casually, but it's an interesting part of the lore that
doesn't really hold up in my mind.
Rob: Yeah, well it's, it's that case of, you know, wanting to look into
it further, because fundamentally you just go, I'm a farmer.
Great.
Okay, so you grow stuff, or whatever it is.
But then that gets to the next level of it is, that stuff.
What do you do with it?
So you either just keep it for yourself, so you're just in this
self generating thing, and that's only sustainable to a certain point.
Then it's a case of, do you make this to be given away to get something in return?
And so then it's a whole case of who you're working with, then it's
all about the money system and the Federation doesn't use money.
So is it in trade?
Is it in, is it in, you
Kevin: Yeah.
It's all linked together, that stuff.
Yeah.
Rob: And so just that ideal notion of what a farmer is, is that simplistic working
with your hands ideology, is, works to a certain level as a character, you know,
as a setup of a character or a, a vision.
But then when you go to the reality of it, you're going, but how does this work?
It's, it's a, it's a beautiful notion and a beautiful vision, but how
does it work within the reality of this universe that you have created?
Kevin: If I squint and try to make it work, I'm like, okay, so somehow,
maybe, like, warp travel is so cheap and so efficient that it completely
changes the economics of moving things around a solar system and a galaxy.
Uh, and maybe it's that.
The show For All Mankind, which is famously, uh, run by Ron Moore, Trek fame,
it has had to deal with some of this stuff that like the one of the big things
that goes differently in their alternate timeline of the future is that cold fusion
is invented in the 90s and it completely changes the economics of energy and
makes, uh, travel to and from Mars cheap enough that it starts to make sense to
think of us as a two planet civilization.
Yeah.
And even there it, it, doesn't fully hold together in, in like quite a modern, well
thought through, uh, fiction, I feel like.
But yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, you can look at This Side of
Paradise and go, yep, there's a farm there, um and, uh, and, uh, Sulu,
while he's under the influence of, uh,
Oh no, at the end when Kirk and Spock are rescuing the crew by, uh, they transmit
an annoyance signal to the whole planet that makes everyone agro and so they
start having punch ups with each other.
Sulu and the previously mentioned nameless yellow shirt, they have
a, a dust up in, uh, rows of crops.
So the scene starts and they are both like inexplicably digging
holes in the middle of a planted, grown field of, of, of vegetables.
And, uh, one of them says, watch where you're throwing that stuff.
And it's on for, and they're rolling around in the in the corn fields.
So yeah, there you go.
This Side of Paradise.
It's a good one.
It's uh, yeah, you know, first season, but, um, and I feel like the dynamics
between Kirk, Spock and McCoy are especially present and raw in this.
There's like, there's some funny stuff where Kirk goes to McCoy,
I thought you always said you'd like Spock more if he loosened up.
And McCoy says, I didn't say that exactly.
Uh, yeah, good stuff there.
Rob: Excellent stuff.
Well, uh, let's jump ahead to Deep Space Nine.
Um, Season 1, Episode 15.
Let's look at Progress.
Kevin: Progress.
Rob: Uh, this is a, uh, Kira Nerys centric episode.
So Nana Visitor has to do a lot of heavy lifting in this, um, and she
carries it with such aplomb, and ease, cause he's just a master.
Um, and the B plot is, uh, Nog and Jake getting up into scrapes, cause, uh, Nog
wants to prove to his uncle, that, uh, him and his, uh, dad, um, are Ferengi
enough, and so wants to earn some latinum to show off to his, um, dad.
But the main focus is, uh, Kira.
So Kira's and her or dealing with, um, going from freedom fighter and
terrorist, or, you know, resistance fighter, to diplomat, and, you know,
instead of fighting for your freedom, uh, you discuss and negotiate and,
you know, all that type of stuff.
So,
Kevin: This is a sci fi version, as I recall, of, of, she's kicking the
farmers out of their farms in order to make way for the interstate bypass.
Rob: Yes.
Pretty much.
Yeah, one of the, one of the moons of Bajor has been discovered to, um, if we,
if they, You know, uh, mine, the, the, the core of it, enough energy will be
generated to save thousands of Bajoran, uh, you know, fuel thousands of Bajoran
homes during the winter and all that type of stuff, so it's, um, a source of, you
know, the greater good, so, there was only a small amount of colonists living on
this moon, and they're being, yeah, moved on, so that the greater good can prevail.
Kevin: That's another, um, that's another Star Trek episode pattern that
could explore at some point is like the, the, um, the bureaucracy that
rules against a small number of people.
Rob: Yeah, very much so.
Where, you know, the, you know, the, uh, bastardization of the needs of the
many outweigh the needs of the one.
Kevin: Mmm.
Indeed.
Rob: Um, yeah, it sounds all very romantic when you're there sacrificing yourself by,
um, stepping into a, a radiation chamber, but it's not as so romantic when you're
dealing with a diplomat from the planet of Bajor going, we need to get these
colonists off because we're going to save thousands of lives during the winter.
And, uh, you wanna say that while you're behind glass and coughing up, I will
always and always will be your diplomat.
Um, so, Kira is ultimately sent down to, uh, deal with one particularly
pesky, um, farmer, that's right, who will not move, who will not go.
And he needs to go, they all need to go, pretty much out of the, gosh,
what's a couple of hundred, uh, there's only three people who are not
agreeing, and one is, uh, Mullibok, and his two, uh, companions who sort
of like live on the farm next door.
They don't speak, uh, so they don't have to pay the actors, uh, speaking roles,
and they justified it as the Cardassians dealt with them so they'd never speak
Kevin: Oh, that's right!
They had their tongues ripped out or something and Oh, I bet
there's an interesting story there.
Nope, there
Rob: Nope, they just had them cut out.
Um, and so it's a, again, a story of progress, about moving forward,
what's more important for the entire population, Um, Kira connecting with her,
you know, roots, where she came from.
She had a similar upbringing on, in her childhood, which she didn't have
much of because of the, you know, um, Cardassian rule, and her connection
with this, uh, old school farmer who kind of got out of the occupation of,
escaped from occupation, occupied Bajor 40 years ago and fled to this moon and
has been living as a farmer for 40 years.
Um, played by the incredible Brian Keith, who was in, uh, the original Parent
Trap, and Family Affair, the TV show, I knew him from a Walt Disney movie
called A Tiger Walks, and, uh, yeah.
About a, uh, tiger that escapes from a traveling circus in a, in a rural, um,
mountain range, uh, in America during the 60s, and, uh, Brian played the
sheriff, who is sort of like in charge of the situation, and his daughter, uh,
his daughter's there going, don't kill him, you gotta save the, save the tiger.
So it's this 1960s thing about, it's a wild beast and everyone wants to kill
it, but the children are there going, save the tiger, you gotta save it.
It's this beautiful film from the 1960s, uh, Disney telemovie, about, you know,
saving our animals and not killing them.
Uh, anyway, he
Kevin: I'd say like his byline as an actor was grumpy with gravitas.
Needed grumpy with gravitas, you call Brian Keith.
Rob: Yeah, it was very much that case of, there's no way you could turn him.
There's no way you could turn him.
Oh, oh, he's still staying grumpy, but
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: the good side.
Um, and this is one of his last roles.
Sadly, um, yeah, he's, um, he, uh, he had, uh, lung cancer, even though he'd given
up smoking, and he was deteriorating fast, and sadly he took his own life, um, in 97.
But this is one of his last, uh, acting roles, and he's just a
beautiful, charming individual.
Curmudgeony,
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: Plays up the whole, uh, trying to antagonize Kira by belittling her, talking
about her beauty, calling her a girl, all that type of stuff, and Kira figures it
out, going, you're doing that on purpose.
But it's all about, you know, I'll go, you know, I'm not gonna go, come
and have dinner, we gotta cook up the food this particular way, and, but it
gets to that point of going, who's he, who's he growing all this stuff for?
What's his farming actually for?
Is it just for him?
Or is there some sort of exchange culture going on?
Marketplace?
If so, if, you know, that type of plays into it, but it's more about, you know,
Kevin: it lifestyle business, Rob?
Does he just do it because he loves it?
Rob: Just does because he loves it.
And he know, but how can he just exist in, on a, on a, moon?
Kevin: On a moon!
Rob: On a, on a, moon where, you know, doesn't, you could just, it's very odd,
if you think about it too much, I'm there going, well, god, we all should
live that lifestyle, it's that easy.
Um, but yeah, so like, how Kira deals with the fact that she no longer, you
know, deals with problems with guns and, and, and fighting and hiding
and, and stuff like that, she has to compromise, and there's a great
discussion at the end with her and Sisko.
Sisko going, you know, You have to move, you have to change, and it doesn't get any
easier, but this is how your life is now, you have to change, and we need people
like you helping to make these decisions.
And so in end, she burns down, she burns down his entire place, and beams him up!
Like, the whole
Kevin: That's that's a Kira situation, uh, that's a Kira
solution if ever I've heard one.
Rob: Yeah, like the whole thing is he wants to finish building this kiln, so he
Kevin: I've had enough of this farm.
This farm is making me mad.
I'm burning it
Rob: Yeah, she's almost destroyed, she's almost destroyed a career, The, the
mute, uh, other farmers, they've stabbed some Bajoran officers, so they've been,
they've been taken with force, um, uh, and Kira's had to heal him up because he
was shot by a phaser, and, and Sisko's had to go, look, either you take him
off and, or you've lost your job or you've lost any type of future with us.
So, she finishes building this kiln that they've been, he's been wanting
to build an outdoor kiln to cook bread and all this type of stuff.
They finally finish it and she just blows it up and then burns
down his plant and goes, You're leaving now, and we teleport off.
And you go, Jesus!
That took a dark turn very quickly.
Oh, but of course you did!
It's Deep Space Nine.
Kevin: It's an interesting twist because we were just talking about
an episode of Star Trek where kind of the point of the farm was to
leave the materialistic things of the future behind and return to the land.
And almost here, the farm is the materialistic thing character is attached
to and, and we destroy that so that, uh, he can get back to a real life in a way.
Rob: Yeah.
He focuses more on the idealism of it so much, but once you take away the actual
material, that ideal has nowhere to go.
Of course the main threat is, they need to start processing this
planet, or this moon, and once they start processing this material, the
planet will become uninhabitable.
It's not a case of they're just moving them on to have the moon empty.
It needs to be empty, because once they start processing It's uninhabitable.
And so he's there going, well, I'll just die here slowly.
Yeah.
Kevin: The, uh, the setting of the farm here feels like, as it so often does
in Star Trek, a, a, a means by which to tell a fish out of water story.
Like we remove our characters from the familiar uh, convenient
surrounds of a starship and put them in an agricultural setting
and it brings out different things.
It's like, uh, you know, it's like breaking the cell phone
in, in, uh, modern, uh, drama.
It forces your characters to find other ways to solve problems.
Um, and I feel like the, this, the farm is playing a bit of that role
here as it did in the original series episode that we were talking about.
Rob: It's, like I said, it's a very big thing within sci fi and American culture,
like one of my favourite shows of the 90s, Quantum Leap, was, y'know, the big
reveal at the end of, uh, Season 2, when he leaps into himself as a young man,
is you find out this brilliant, quantum physicist, scientist who's traveling
through time, was actually raised in a small country town, where he's farm,
farmer father, and salt of the earth family, and he, you know, lived in a
small country town where he went to school and had, you know, had the hots for the
cheerleader and all that type of stuff.
And so it's that case of, American culture, especially, y'know,
in the 90s and beforehand, not
Kevin: It's more than an American culture.
It's like a particular brand of Americana.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: The midwestern ideal.
Um, yeah.
Like I said, Star Trek might have a very different feel to it if
the founding American myth was more, was like a different one
that and they could have chose.
But I guess it all goes back to that wagon train to the stars that, uh,
gene Roddenberry originally pitched.
Rob: Yeah.
And because it, like, they invest so much of their own belief within that mythology,
and in some ways, a lot of cultures do.
Australian culture is very different, it doesn't, y'know,
believe its own rhetoric too much.
Um, but it does what it believes to be its representation of its
voice, or its iconic view of itself.
You know, Australia's more of the, everyone has a fair go, the fair dinkum
Aussie, no matter where you're from.
Um, but yeah, it's very tied with that American, Americana, uh, ideology,
and, uh, you know, God, I was gonna almost get a bit political and see
how that's been corrupted within the last, you know, 10, 15, 20 years.
Um, but yeah, there's a lot of time spent within this episode, getting back
to our topic of farming, where they talk about the type of food that is
grown there, the type of vegetables,
Kevin: me more about what details do we get about this farm?
How high tech is it?
Is farm or an animal farm
Rob: A food farm.
We don't see any real animals.
They talk about a type of food that they're growing and, um,
Kevin: Alien animals are expensive, Rob.
Rob: That's very, very true.
Animation's fine, so you do your dog pigs, um, and they could be
knocking you around and, you know, not eating the food properly.
Um, but yeah, they talk about they're preparing a meal so it has to be cut up in
a particular way and it has to be prepared for three hours, otherwise it's inedible.
So they're going.
Why would you grow that type of food anyway?
Um, but yeah, it's definitely, we know that they're growing this type of
food, well as many others, so it's a
Kevin: Sounds like he's growing some real bougie food for, uh, for,
uh, like this is, this not, I don't know, I guess the Bajorans, they have
hasperat and all that stuff going on.
Maybe just all of their food is inconvenient.
Rob: I should have got the idea of what type of farm it was when
it was on the moon of Bajor in the area of the Yarra Valley.
It was, um there was a lot of upper middle class Bajorans hanging
out there, wanting to get that authentic, sustainable experience.
Kevin: Yes.
For our out of towners, you're listening, the Yarra Valley is a particularly hippie
section of, uh, northeast Melbourne.
Rob: Yeah, all the hipster, you know, upper middle class people
go there to connect with a more rustic way of living, um, in a
very, very, controlled environment.
Um, but yeah, so you get a bit of sense of the food that's made, the, you know,
the rustic living lifestyle, it's, it's a, you know, and there's a really cool
way of like how doors are opened and the setup, so you see, like, pulley
systems, and they're on angles, and how they open and close, it's, um, and
how the symbols of how the architecture matches the, the communicators and
the symbolism of, I love those type of connections with Bajoran culture, and,
Kevin: Yeah, here in season one they would have still been in full fledged
world building for the Bajoran, uh,
Rob: Very much.
This, yeah, to have an episode based on Bajoran culture that wasn't
so tied with the vedeks or the spiritual nature of the culture.
It's like, of all the races that we have within, or the cultures that we
have within Star Trek, the Bajorans are the most spiritual, definitely.
It's a, it's a religion based society, um, that everything else, and that
spirituality is a lot more tangible than, uh, many others, of course, with
prophets and the, the orbs of whatever.
But um, yeah, it's a, the farming plays in the background, but they add just enough
tantalizing detail, so it's not just that case of little bits of detail that make
you go, it's not just Here is a farm, here is the type of stuff they're growing.
But when you go a little bit deeper, well, what are they growing this stuff for?
Just themselves?
Or are they trading it?
Or is there a marketplace just around the corner, on, further down the set?
Um, but it's that, yeah, idealism versus materialism versus, uh,
you know, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.
Kevin: Yeah, so, it seems like what we're seeing here as a pattern is
that, like, the farm is a, a change of pace location, or a way of putting our
characters in an unfamiliar situation.
And for us as viewers, it's an opportunity to see, that the future
isn't all technology, that there is, there are patches of agrarian existence
that, uh, survive, whether, whether as a, as an idealized expression of
American culture or, or just, uh, just something a little different.
Rob: There is that, there is that appeal of going so fantastical with your
scientific vision, but you can connect it with that morality or that sense of
simplicity from a contemporary time.
And Star Trek does it, tries to do it better than anyone else, like, there's
the Voyager episode when there's, they've got the figures from history,
and one of them's from Woodstock.
And so this whole sense of yeah, and Tom Paris is so connected with ancient
technology and culture, um, even though ancient is a couple of hundred years in
the past, and I don't think we describe anything from 300 years ago ancient.
Kevin: No but I, I guess it's a, for me it's a, It's a It's a tool for creating
contrast in Star Trek is that if you take your, your uniformed high tech phaser and
tricorder using Starfleet officer or, uh, uh, officer in the Bajoran militia, as
the case may be, and you plop them down in a field with no other technology in
sight, it creates an interesting contrast that creates storytelling possibilities.
And I feel like that's normally what Star Trek reaches for farms to do.
Rob: Yeah, especially because Star Trek is very much about our society here,
and how that has evolved in the future.
As opposed to, say, like, Star Wars, where they have farm
life, but it's moisture farming.
Kevin: was gonna, I was gonna, mention moisture
Rob: Whereas in Star Trek, it's very much a case of, you
know, if we're not a farm of
Kevin: Don't make me talk about Star Trek V and the field of
holes, speaking of moisture farms.
Rob: But, you know, we have you know, they're growing plants, they're growing
crops, um, as opposed to it's like one of the iconic moments from Interstellar
by Chris, uh, by Christopher Nolan, that enormous space station which kinda
curves around on itself, but there's like a crop field, and you've got, know,
uh, Matthew McConaughey there with his uh, his you know, hyper huge technology
robot, and he's just sitting on an old school wooden, uh, patio with beer in
his hand, and, you know, regular jeans and a flannel going, all right, all
right, all right, surrounded by all this
Kevin: The old and the new and the some things never change.
Rob: Yeah, and just, yeah, we see that in Star Trek V, not, not, not
the farmholes, definitely, you know, Kirk, McCoy, and Spock going farming,
singing, row, row, row, row, row, row, row, row, row, row, row, row your boat.
Kevin: That's right, yes.
Rob: Even if life is but a dream.
Kevin: It always leads back to Star Trek V.
Rob: back to Star Trek V, man.
Kevin: What we don't realize is Star Trek 5 is the nexus
of the Star Trek, uh, canon.
Rob: Yeah, yeah, and Malcolm McDowell's trying to get there.
That would have made Generations far more interesting.