On this special Veterans Day edition of the Mayo Clinic Q&A podcast, Mayo Clinic chaplain, Loren Olson, and Mayo Clinic security operations supervisor, Charlie Hall, join host Dr. Halena Gazelka for a conversation on caring for veterans.
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Clinic Q&A...
Loren Olson: It's a day where we
can show appreciation and
gratitude to all those who gave
up a big portion of their lives
to serve us.
Narrator: Veterans Day is a
holiday held on the anniversary
of the end of World War One.
It's a day to recognize the men
and women who have served in the
US Armed Forces, to honor them,
and to say thank you for their
service.
Charlie Hall: Veterans are
really no different than anyone
else that didn't serve. We just
got some different stories and
they pledged their lives to
support our system. So actually
just wanting people to be
comfortable with what a veteran
is.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Welcome,
everyone to Mayo Clinic Q&A, I'm
Dr. Halena Gazelka. Veterans Day
is a federal holiday in the
United States for honoring
military veterans of the United
States Armed Forces. The theme
for Veterans Day 2022 is honor.
And this year, we would like to
honor our veterans by showcasing
some of our incredible programs
and efforts here at Mayo Clinic.
With us today are two Mayo
Clinic employees who have been
heavily involved in various
initiatives and programs to
support our veterans. Charlie
Hall is a security operations
supervisor at Mayo Clinic in La
Crosse. Charlie served in the
army as an active duty rifle man
with a combat tour to the
Balkans and as a paratrooper
with close to 100 military
parachute jumps. Loren Olson is
a Mayo Clinic hospice chaplain
who often works with veterans
and their families as they
reached the end of life. Welcome
both of you to the program.
Charlie Hall: Thank you.
Loren Olson: Hi, Halena.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: I have to
say, Charlie and Loren, that I
feel very honored to sit here
with you today and be able to
talk to you about your
experiences and your experiences
with veterans. Thank you both
for your service.
Charlie Hall: Thank you very
much. And likewise.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Charlie,
let's start with you. Thank you
for your service to the
military. What is one memory
that you'd like to share with us
about your time in the service?
Charlie Hall: I guess there are
just so many in a 20-year active
duty career, but that's not much
different from a lot of careers
in the world. Really, it just
comes down to one thing for me
really is just pride. Pride in
being a citizen of our country
and being privileged enough to
not only serve for the United
States, but also being called
into a combat zone. Really, it
has been the pride of my life
really, in my work life,
separate from family and
children. That has been an
overwhelming theme for me. And
you know, otherwise, the two
parachute malfunctions I had
where I nearly wasn't here
anymore. Those were significant
events also.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Charlie, did
you jump again after that?
That's the one thing I wanted to
ask you about. I am terrified of
heights. And I don't know if
there's literally anything but
someone pushing me out that
could make me jump out of an
airplane. What was that like?
Charlie Hall: Well, it's
interesting that you bring that
up because I'm also terrified of
heights. One of the things that
the military does is they train
you at 34 feet in a tower.
That's where the human brain in
most cases can detach from the
height aspect. And it becomes
more of a like we're riding
around in a jetliner aspect and
we're not so physical with the
ground in close proximity. But I
also was afraid, and you know,
in the army in the paratrooper
world, in the airborne, we have
a back on the horse mentality.
Very similar to on the farm, the
horse bucks you off and you got
hurt, you're getting right back
on it. And so I jumped.
Actually, when you have a
malfunction, they require you to
go through some extra training.
And I think I jumped three times
in one day on an afternoon.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Charlie,
tell us about the Final Honor
Walk program and why it's
important to you.
Charlie Hall: The final honor
program is something that I
wanted to develop. I thought we
could do more in that area with
just being privileged, again, to
be able to work with the Mayo
Clinic brand and everything that
the greatest health care
organization on the planet
brings. I just thought that we
could do more in that area. I
had worked with, as I think
we're going to talk about later,
with the We Honor Veterans
program in Rochester, with
hospice, and the near end of
life things with veterans, all
the great things they do there.
I had the privilege of doing
that, but I saw us being able to
do a little bit more in an
inpatient setting. And there
were some obstacles. As we all
know, in a healthcare setting,
we have health information
obstacles, we have, you know,
sometimes it's just really hard
to institute a new program. But
really the leadership here in La
Crosse, and our Global Security
Leadership just really made it
easy. And we're really on the
team to provide a final honor
walk, if you will, of veterans,
when requested. And usually with
family, supported by our staff,
as we go through that final walk
in the flag draped transport.
It's really a special program.
It's something that I kind of
envisioned, and I wasn't really
sure if we were going to be able
to pull it off. But, with the
great leadership that we have
here and as easy as they made
it, it really is a rewarding
program.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: It's
wonderful, thank you for sharing
that, Charlie. Loren, I'd love
to pull you into the
conversation and have you tell
us about your work, and how you
help veterans and their
families, including the We Honor
Veterans program that Charlie
just mentioned.
Loren Olson: You know, from
spiritual care and end of life
issues, we do want to talk to
people about what are the really
important events of your life,
the things you're did in your
life to a very meaningful, that
helped shape who you are, that
help you look back and say,
yeah, you know, my being here I
made a difference. And for many
of our veterans, as Charlie
said, there's just really that
point of pride. That pride that
for a period of their lives,
they did kind of leave behind
their own agendas, and go to
work for our country. Whether it
was for our mission in wartime
or just peace time serving the
country in some way. To resist
that feeling that I'm proud of
what I was able to accomplish
during that period. So in
working with veterans, I always
try to bring that into the
conversation in terms of how
that experience impacted their
broader journey in life. And
oftentimes, you know, that's
very positive. You have people
have very positive experiences
in their service. Some of the
best friendships they ever made
were in their service. I'm
probably doing a funeral on
Wednesday for somebody, even
though he spent his whole life
or his whole military career in
cryptology, in small little
offices, so working far away
from any kind of battlefield. I
think, for him that was just
such an important part of his
life that he served his country
in the United States Air Force
for four years. And it was a big
point of pride for him that he
was going to be able to be
buried at the State Veterans
Cemetery in Preston. That meant
a lot to him. So, again, it's
that point of pride. There are
also those issues that come up,
because sometimes being in
harm's way, things happen.
Charlie had the experiences of
parachute failures. Even
practicing for combat can be
dangerous. I had a patient who
did not want to talk about his
war experiences at all in Korea,
until he got near the end. And
then he talked to me about being
a Marine machine gunner and
mowing down dozens of enemy
troops. And just that question
of, is God going to forgive me?
Will I be welcomed into heaven
after I did that? I mean, it's
that kind of that could have
experienced that, thankfully,
I've never had to experience.
But you know, some people in
service of their country are
called into those situations
that are unimaginable. Another
patient I talked to was in
Vietnam, standing on a little
footbridge over a creek with his
best friend having a smoke. And
suddenly a sniper shot his best
friend and killed him. And you
know they were on a break. And,
for him it was the issue of why
did the sniper choose him
instead of me? Why am I alive
and he's not? And again, that
question really shaped his life.
And even at the end, you can
struggle with that question of
why did I get to live to be 75
years old, where my friend only
lived to be 19. And when those
issues come up, for me, it's
meaningful to have the
opportunity to work with people
through those issues, and in a
spiritual way and help them find
some meaning, find some closure,
find some peace.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Just to
sharing those stories, Loren,
makes me sense how important
this work is. My own father died
on Mayo Clinic hospice here in
Rochester and was a veteran and
had a veteran's pinning. And
that meant very much to him. He
didn't remember a lot of things.
But he remembered his time in
the military and was very proud
of it. Then he, too, is in the
Preston military cemetery, which
is a beautiful spot. What
important work you're doing.
Tell us what else the staff on
hospice do to help build trust
with veterans and their
families, as you're working with
them.
Loren Olson: I think one thing
we can do, you know everybody
has their own unique experience.
And we all live our own lives,
we die our own deaths, but I
think it's important for us to
be aware of the special concerns
that sometimes arise with
veterans and their families. And
like I just talked about, you
know, about the PTSD issues that
can come up from service. The
missing important events,
because you're often deployed,
things like that that come up
that we can be sensitive to and
think about as we're offering
our care. So I think it's just
part of our commitment to care
for our patients and put the
needs of the patient first. And
sometimes our veterans have
special needs. And because of
that, we need to be aware of
that we need to do some training
in that. We need to find ways
that we can support them in that
journey. And one of those is by
honoring them by celebrating
their service.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Charlie, can
you share with us a memorable
moments or achievement that
you've had while working with
the honor walk program?
Charlie Hall: They're all so
special, Halena. As you know,
they're all unique. They're all
beautiful in their own personal,
individual way. But what I do
remember is, without getting
into any details, we did have a
gentleman pass, inpatient, that
actually fought alongside of the
United States in the Vietnam
War, and was a friendly
supporter, both militarily and
conceptually. And his entire
family was upstairs at the time
of passing, and they requested
us. And that was just another
one of the very unique services
that our great security team
does on a 24 hour a day basis
when called upon. They're all
unique. All of the situations
are different, but that one
really sticks out for me because
that was what we would refer to
as a veteran that completed the
mission. At the time all of that
happened, he didn't even live in
this country. He wasn't even a
legal citizen at the time. And
for the amount of things that
family paid. It was pretty
remarkable to be able to be a
part of that and have them open
up and have us come in and
perform that for them.
Definitely one I won't forget.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Loren, you
shared a couple. But I'll ask
you the same question. Do you
have a story that you would like
to share or a memorable moment
from working with the We Honor
Veterans program or other
veterans' initiatives here at
Mayo?
Loren Olson: I can think of a
few. Several pinning ceremonies
that were particularly
meaningful. One that comes to
mind right away is we had a
patient who had struggled with
mental illness and addiction
much of his life. But to do four
years of duty in the United
States Army, serving in the
Philippines and Korea, and we
were able to do a veteran's
pinning for him. And what I saw
was kind of a transformation
because, here we kind of looked
at a life where there been a lot
of disappointment, a lot of
difficulty. But we were able to
bring him back to a time when he
was a capable human being who
did serve four years in the army
with distinction. He did a great
job. And also, there's that
pride of country. We were able
to remind him of a time when it
wasn't all about his problems, a
time that he was serving others,
when he was doing useful things.
And I know he talked about that
for weeks and weeks after that
pinning ceremony because it just
meant so much to him to be
honored and to bring back those
memories of his military
service.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Can I ask
you one question to describe for
those who have not experienced
it what a pinning ceremony is?
Loren Olson: Sure. So it's just
a small, simple way of saying
thank you to a veteran. We come
into the veteran's home or
wherever they're at, and we
usually bring a pillowcase that
represents the branch of the
service that they served in, and
a small little pin they could
put on a lapel, or a lot of them
put them on their military hats,
and a coin from Mayo expressing
our appreciation for their
service, and a certificate. And
we'll just do us a short little
ceremony just saying thank you.
First of all, we invite them to
share, like you invited Charlie,
some special experiences from
their time in the military. And,
and then we just do a short
ceremony thanking them for their
service. And then if they're
open to it, we offer a prayer, a
blessing for them at the close
of the service. So and it's a
ceremony that can take just five
minutes, but I was at one last
week that took an hour and 20
minutes, because we just got
this veteran talking about his
experiences. He was just having
so much fun and brought us into
the fun. So the ceremony went on
and on and on, and we all loved
it. It was a great time.
Charlie Hall: Loren, if I could
add one thing off of what Loren
mentioned, there are some really
beautiful moments in those
pinning ceremonies. I personally
have witnessed a couple of
handfuls of them, of family
communicating and getting
together when they haven't in a
very long time. And some of the
conversations needed to happen.
And they did. And you know, it
was just a very beautiful,
unique experience that's
occurring right before your
eyes. And you really had no idea
that all of this was going to
come together like this, but I'm
sure Loren, and you've also been
through it. Halena, it's just a
beautiful time, and there are so
many good things that occur
there. So I completely agree,
Loren, it's just a beautiful
scenario, when that all happens,
Loren Olson: It's just a
beautiful time, and it can be
just a Mayo employee and the
veteran, or it could be, as
Charlie says, I've been in a
room with 30 people that are
family members who gathered to
celebrate that event for that
person.
Charlie Hall: I actually emceed
an event in Minnesota. It was
going to be planned as just one
veteran and a few family
members. And the home set up a
microphone and they invited the
entire home into the area. And I
think I had over 100 folks. We
had every veteran that wanted to
be in that ceremony was in that
ceremony. They came through,
some on wheelchairs, they
saluted the veteran, the family
and just the entire atmosphere
in the way that it was all set
up. I did not plan on that. But
I ended up being the emcee for a
group ceremony, which was
beautiful. And I'll never forget
that one either.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Oh, that is
wonderful, Charlie, thank you
for sharing that. Charlie, what
does Veterans Day mean to you as
a veteran?
Charlie Hall: That's
interesting. You know, a lot of
times people don't understand
why veterans don't necessarily
get too excited about holidays
that are made on their behalf.
That's not the norm usually in
our country. But when we see
Memorial Day come along, I know
personally, for me, knowing I
had three fellow soldiers that
were killed in both Iraq and
Afghanistan conflicts, killed in
action, Memorial Day is
difficult for me. I completely
pretty much dismiss it and I
think there are a lot of fellow
veteran brothers and sisters out
there that just want that day to
be done. Maybe similar to
someone that lost a family
member on a holiday. And that
holiday comes around and it's
like I can't wait until
midnight, you know? And that
really, for me, is difficult.
But Veterans Day, now that is
for all veterans to celebrate
serving. Unfortunately,
sometimes, and we may get into
this later, but one of my wishes
would be that if people could
really distinguish between
Memorial Day and Veterans Day,
and you really have to kind of
think about it and research it.
Memorial Day is for those that
gave their life in battle, or in
training for the country. And
Veterans Day, is to appreciate
all veterans that have served
and there really is a
distinction that sometimes, you
know, people don't all know. The
media gets it confused a little
bit, sometimes, not by any fault
of their own, and not by any
fault of anyone. But it's the
separation of the two I think is
really important. But Veterans
Day has always been great. I
always do make my best
opportunity to get out to
whatever events we can in my
hometown, in my local town with
the American Legion and the
soldiers, Veterans of Foreign
Wars. So it really is a great
day. It's a great chance to
honor all of those that served.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Wonderful,
Loren, what does Veterans Day
mean to you?
Loren Olson: I think, as Charlie
said, I think it is a day where
we can show appreciation and
gratitude to all those who gave
up a big portion of their lives
to serve us. Like I think of my
grandfather, who was a World War
One veteran, an ambulance driver
in France, and Veterans Day was
a highlight for him, just a
point of pride and just time to
celebrate. And he loved to tell
the stories of his year in
France. And my uncle did three
tours of duty in Vietnam. And
you just want to say thank you.
We just want to say thank you
for we who benefit from their
service. And I think it is great
to have a holiday that's just
based on gratitude. And you
don't have to go out shopping
for anybody, you don't have to
cook big meals. You just have to
say thank you for your service.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: I love that.
And I try to do that for each
and every patient who comes in
my office if I find out that
they're a veteran. Often they're
wearing a hat, like you said
earlier, and I'll thank them for
their service, because we're so
grateful for that. On Veterans
Day, what are some of the ways,
Charlie and Loren, that Mayo
staff honor our veterans who are
with us?
Charlie Hall: Well, I think
Halena, you just hit on a big
one. I do the same exact thing.
When I'm in the clinic here,
anywhere on campus, or any of
our clinics in the region, if
that veteran is wearing a hat
that signifies their veterans
status if you will, that to me
is the okay to come up and thank
them for their service. And I do
that routinely here. It's
usually a surprise to the
veteran. They're usually
extremely grateful. And that
probably is the number one thing
is to acknowledge them. It's so
important in our environments to
make people feel at ease when
care is coming, especially when
there are some complex
situations with medical care.
There's some very sensitive
conversations that have to
happen. We all know that happens
so much easier when we have
great rapport with our patients.
So really, with the recognition
of on the outward part of
wearing the hats, but also on
the on the inside in the exam
room, for example. Not that I've
ever been there, but I can
imagine as a patient in an exam
room to have some of those
potential stigmas that come
along with your veterans
service. Circling around mental
health issues, homelessness
issues, and all of the terrible
things that happen in all of our
society, but within the veteran
segment, there is quite a big
incidence of that. To kind of
make that veteran feel at ease
if you will. And to not be
afraid, if that's not too hard
of a word. Because they sense
that, and a lot of times it
won't be a productive
conversation. So communication
through all of the different
techniques that we use to make
people feel comfortable and that
they're wanted here, they're
appreciated, and we thank them.
Veterans, that's just one facet
of what everyone does in this
world. And we thank our patients
for everything that they've done
good in this world and to make
them feel comfortable and at
ease and to keep that
communication going. So that
would be the the main topic for
myself is what we can do is just
to make that veteran feel
comfortable, be confident in
their presence, and show
appreciation.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: That's
wonderful. It's kind of like
what we would want to do for
every patient who comes through
the door with a little added
thank you for being a veteran. I
love that, Charlie. Loren, what
are your thoughts? What do Mayo
staff do to honor veterans on
Veterans Day and on a daily
basis?
Loren Olson: My experience with
Mayo it's just that honoring
veterans as part of the culture,
at least in my experience, the
hospice at Mayo. One of the
first things I learned as I came
to work the hospice program was
that We Honor Veterans
partnership with the Veterans
Administration is important to
us. We want to honor that. We
want to lift it up, we want
spent time honoring our
veterans. So I do think we have
developed a corporate culture
that just helps us to think of
the specific needs of other
veterans in ways that we can be
thankful. So I just appreciate
that in terms of my experience
with Mayo.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: All right.
Last question for both of you.
This is your opportunity to
educate us. What do you wish
that more people knew about
veterans? We'll start with you,
Charlie.
Charlie Hall: It's really
difficult to to answer your
question Halena, because it is a
bit complicated. Obviously, if
we don't have experiences in
life that other people have gone
through, it's going to be very
difficult to ask the question,
well, why don't you consider
this or do you know what I went
through. And really, it goes
through all facets of our lives,
regardless of what occupation
you're in, but specifically to
veterans. there, as I hit on
some of the issues. Some of the
possible stigmas of mental
health, homelessness,
alcoholism, things of that
nature, have hit that small
percentage of veterans for this
country very hard. I heard a
statistic less than 1% of all
Americans will serve their
country or honorably served
their country at some point in
their life. That's a very small
percentage. So when issues do
happen within that group, there
are going to be some things that
come along with them. So again,
it will come back to making the
veteran feel comfortable, and
just know that they went out
there and they did everything
they could to preserve our way
of life. And none of them that
I've ever met, and I don't
believe I ever will, require a
dime from anyone or want
anything said to them. But they
feel that appreciation. And
that's really the big thing that
I would like people to
understand is, veterans are
really no different than anyone
else that didn't serve. We've
just we just got some different
stories and they pledged their
lives to support our system. So
really just wanting people to be
comfortable with what a veteran
is.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Loren, do
you have any thoughts on what
you wish others knew about
veterans whom you have worked
with?
Loren Olson: I think the point
Charlie made from his own
personal experience. Charlie, of
course has done a lot more with
veterans than I have. I
appreciate that, Charlie, the
way you support your brothers
and sisters in arms.
Loren Olson: I think as you say
a small percent serve now. And a
lot of us aren't touched by
military life as prior
generations where you had the
major wars with big call ups of
people. But there are some
unique experiences that can come
from that in terms of the PTSD.
We know that veterans have a
higher rate of depression,
higher rate of suicide than the
general public. So just some
sensitivity to those issues.
We're all the same, but the
military experience is a unique
experience, and it can create
challenges in person's life. So
I think just some supporting
some of the kinds of programs
that are developed to help the
veterans is helpful, is useful.
I think is we could do more for
veterans, but at the same time,
at least, it's a start to say
thank you. Thank you for that
Charlie Hall: Thank you.
I agree with that. And thank you
Charlie and Loren for being here
unique experience, that unique
commitment that they make on our
behalf.
today.
Charlie Hall: Thank you, Halena.
For acknowledging the programs
I agree. We want to bring more
attention to those programs.
with the We Honor Veterans
hospice, and our inpatient Final
Honors program here. Your
podcast here is going to bring
so much more support to those
programs when they desperately
need to be acknowledged and
folks need to hear what's
available there for their
patients, especially nursing and
folks like that. So thank you so
much for organizing this and
what a great time of year with
Veterans Day to have this
discussion. So thank you.
Thank you, too. Loren.
Loren Olson: Thank you, Halena.
And, and thank you, Charlie.
Charlie Hall: Thank you, Loren,
for everything you're doing.
Dr. Halena Gazelka: Our thanks
to Mayo Clinic's Charlie Hall,
and Loren Olson, for joining us
today to talk with us about
taking care of veterans on
Veterans Day. If you're a
veteran, we thank you. Thank you
for your service. Thank you for
guaranteeing the safety of each
of us. If you're not a veteran,
I encourage you today to find a
veteran to thank on Veterans
Day.
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