Show Notes
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited)
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina <inaudible>. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand
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It. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense
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Of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?
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Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. This is Gina. Welcome to our 50th five zero F episode. Today. We're going to listen back to some of our favorite interviews, some highlights from conversations that we've just adored having. Thank you to all of you who have been supporting us along the way. And I hope you enjoy a look back at some great highlight these coasts. Oh,
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How are you doing? You know, so it's not like in your twenties, it's a wild ride, right? It's like a roller coaster. It's twists and turns and your stomach hurts and you feel like there's a liberated and you felt it. Okay. It's in middle age. It's like a, like, you're just riding one of those trolleys kind of slow and there's are like in San Francisco and there's still Hills. And sometimes it is very beautiful, but a lot of times you're just slowly crawling towards your own day. Oh, the problem is, well, to preface this, to say, this is, this is, did I ever tell you the story about how I ruined someone's surprise wedding?
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So I cannot keep a secret like that. Like when the secret stakes are high, I, I, if you're ever, if never, so my friend, this is crazy. So my friend, my friend's Fiat boyfriend called me and said, hi, I am surprising Sarah in a wedding. She knows we're going on an adventure. We're going on a hot air balloon ride. And we're getting married in the hot air balloon. Oh God, can you come and be the witness? And I was at, first of all, I'm scared of any height. I said, okay. I said, fine.
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So he, this was so crazy. So I kept it. I was like, okay, here it comes. And I was like, seeing her and you know, we're not friends anymore. Shockingly. So I, I were okay. Beans. So I made it, she's supposed to dress up. She doesn't know happening, but the guy who does the hot air balloon is the minister. So he also serves as the minister. It's a whole thing. People do. Okay, fine. But you need a witness. And so I'm the witness. I'm like, this is, this is terrible. So we make it, she's in a dress, like a fancy dress. I'm in a fancy whatever outfit we have to drive to the desert.
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Right. So we're in the car. And I S I literally said, we're going. I remember it's, it's hot, it's windy. And she's excited. Nobody, you know, I sat in the backseat of her fiance or boyfriend sat in the front seat. Cause I don't know why she wanted to talk or something. I don't remember why we're both in the backseat. And I just go, I can't believe you're about to get married to the hotter. And she looked like this and he, we don't know if he I'm sure he, it was really windy. So I'm not sure if he heard, but she heard. And she looked at me and I was like, well, what the, yeah.
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People really still think that you could be sitting at Schwab's drinking phosphate going to say, oh wow, this girl's got talent. You can tell by your sweater. That's amazing. Yeah. And then he gets into his Studebaker drives down to Mayberry and yeah. You know, it's the biggest, I mean, when I found out that that Kylie Jenner made billions of dollars from selling ugly ass lipstick, I was like, wait, what?
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What's what's what did I do wrong? I guess that was important Kardashians. No, you weren't born a Kardashian in Calabasas, wherever the hell they live. But the other thing is my niece wanted to contribute to her. GoFund me to make her a billionaire. And I said, if you contribute to her, go fund me to put her over the billionaire mark. I will no longer speak to you. Hope you had a go fund. Me, go fund me to make her the first billionaire teenager or whatever that heck it was. Yes. She had piece of wood started GoFund me to put her over the edge. Oh, not she didn't start it.
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Somebody started for her. Some crazy teenage girl started it to try to get, make her belly. I mean, this is what we're dealing with here. This is the, this is what we're up against. This is what we're up against. So are you shocked that that Mitch McConnell and whoever Dicky addicted are trying to know we've got this, we've this going on? Gina. Wait, I asked, sorry. I don't have to go back to this. Go fund me. Okay. So did it make money? It work? Yes. It put her over the edge, but did it go to the girl who made the GoFundMe? No. It went to Kylie Jenner, but how, if I wanted to start a GoFundMe for someone or for Meryl Streep?
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Normally, hopefully Meryl Streep would say, you know what, I'm going to pass at. I'm going to donate the money. But I think, and I am not, I am not a hundred percent. We'd have to do the fact checking on this. I think that it put her over the edge and I'm not sure she don't look, I don't want to get sued by the Kardashians. But all I'm saying is it was like this fad thing that caught on make Kylie Jenner a billionaire. Yeah. But okay. You're living in the essential thing and essential thing that I can't wrap my brain around. It's probably really obvious to everybody, but me, if I wanted to start a fund, GoFund me from Streep.
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How on earth would I ever tell Meryl Streep or get the money to her? I'm not going to like go to the white pages and look up Meryl Streep, and then be like, Hey, I I'm raising a bunch of cash for you. Could I have your bank account number? Or what? I mean, I don't know how GoFund me works, but right, right. I think it's because it's going to this girl, maybe it was, and I kind of hope it was, but, but it, but I think it went to her company. I think they, they, like, I don't know. I know is that it was a huge social movement about, I would say five years ago, maybe four years ago. I don't know.
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And my niece was like, I'm going to donate. And I was like, oh my God, no, you're not. I will lay my body down in this Watertower place. We were in the water tower place in Chicago shopping. And I said, I will lay down on this floor and not leave it in front of American girl until you promise me you're not going to donate what has happened. I'm like, well, we've learned two things here at least. Right. Number one, Kylie Jenner is a cult leader. Oh yeah. Yeah. The cult of beauty. The cult of personality. Yes, yes. Yeah.
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Yes. It could really just be the Cole about her lips. Cause it does seem to be kind of all about her lips. It is. It's true. It's true. And additionally, I am now realizing that probably what happened with that GoFund me is that Kylie Jenner paid somebody to start that she says, I'll give you 10% of whatever you raise, because I've read things about those people that they don't, they don't pay their nannies or they, they stiff. They're the kind of rich people who get rich because they're real cheap. Oh, with everybody else except themselves, you know, what are we doing?
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I mean, I mean, that is, that is see, I, my logic, my logic train stops. I never, I never went the full mile of, oh my gosh. She probably did pay this person as a publicity stunt and to get the money, but like the whole thing, oh God, see you really go to the dark, dark, dark side, which I appreciate because I'm sort of like, well, whatever, it's just a bunch of kids having fun. It's kind of, it's, it's kind of jacked up, but like it's not the worst and you're not. I'm like, oh, it's the worst thing. What's the worst thing.
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Okay. So I did my monologue. My monologue was from a Nicky silver play. I don't remember which one. And I don't, and I think it was totally inappropriate, but it's just crazy, like a crazy hysterical woman. I not good. So I do my monologue and I'm totally nervous and I feel totally less than, and just not, I don't feel right. I feel wrong. Everything feels wrong about me. So after, after that, I, what I, I just immediately start drinking profusely because that's the thing that you should really do when you're trying to really help your self esteem is just start drinking profusely.
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And so I was drinking profusely and who walks up to me, but John C. Riley walks up to me. He, he went to the theater school and so he was being very supportive and very whatever. And he walks up to me and he said, I just want to say, I really liked your piece. Great. That would've been the opening to so many other people would have taken that as an opportunity to network with a movie, a buddy movie star at the time and a nice guy by the way. But what comes out of my mouth is I hated boogie nights that comes out of my mouth.
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Gina cheetah. That's got the worst part about it. The worst part is Gina. I had never seen boogie nights. Wow. I lied. I lied about seeing bookie. I had never seen boogie nights. I had never seen it. I don't know what happened to me. I, I, I went crazy. I was so ashamed of myself that I just started saying lying, insults. I don't know. I'm trying to get the, get the scene here. You okay.
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Well, I'm guessing that what happened for you, you felt badly about monologue. And so when he said that thing to you, you felt it wasn't genuine. And he was maybe even mocking you. So you wanted to say something nasty to him, but he was being sincere. It turns out yeah, he, he was and the guy, so I say, I hated boogie nights. And the guy says, John C. Riley says, what any nice person would say, which is why, but I hadn't seen it. Oh my God. So what am I going to say?
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So what I said was, I think it was chauvinist stick. I'm so embarrassed. It was chauvinist. And didn't depict women in a good way. I have no idea if that was true or not, because I hadn't seen boogie nights. So then he says, oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. And then he introduced me to his wife who was lovely and I scurried away. So, okay. So I was mortified. I felt like the one person who gave me any attention at that showcase, I spit in his face, lied to. I mean, it's unbelievable that the idiot that I was, I was so embarrassed.
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And so I just carried that shame for soul so long. And one day I said, I'm going to find John C. Riley. This was like in 2007, eight after my dad died and I'm going to try to make immense. So I go online, I go on Facebook and I try to find him. And I find who I think is him, but who knows? I didn't know what I was doing. And I write this long apology about self esteem and my drinking. And I get a response back from him. But I don't know if it's him saying, I got your message. Of course. I remember you, your monologue was great. But now looking back, I don't know if it was him.
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It was some Facebook account. It could have just been some, some person with a fan Facebook page writing me back, Gina. So I still am embarrassed and I don't know. Wow. Wow. Did you feel good after you wrote the apology? Yeah. I, and I wish that I might still have it somewhere. I'm going to look. It was just like, listen, you said all these things to me that were nice. And I lied. I came clean about the whole thing, but I don't think it was really John C. Riley because chance Riley's not going to have like a Facebook, definitely have to take screenshots of that. And we'll put it up on our Instagram. That's, that's beautiful. And okay.
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But the others, my other for that is like, yeah, maybe it was regrettable, but at the same time, it seems like one of the things that has emerged is if you had gotten a lot of attention and probably moved to, I, I'm not certain that our story would have been one of the ones that went the right way. You know what I mean? Like I was actually just thinking about this this morning. I was thinking about how many female actors that I have loved over the years. And then every once in a while, I'm like, whatever happened to that person. A lot of it got revealed in the Harvey Weinstein of it all because we learned how many careers he ruined.
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But I think, I think that there's a bit Jillian, other more like mundane reasons that, that, and it's things like that. I mean, not necessarily like embarrassing yourself, but you go down this path and it's like, it's, you're not ready for it. And then you blow it up in some kind of way. And I think if it, and then you blow it up, then you feel maybe inhibited from ever trying to return to it, which is not the position that we're in. So I guess, cool. No, that makes me feel better because really I was like, so ashamed that I blew, but I feel ashamed, but also looking at it now and hearing you, I am grateful that I happen sooner rather than later.
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It's not like I was on set. And like, you know, I don't know it was shot someone or did something crazy or like overdosed on drugs and, and, you know, you know, whatever, but it was not. And apparently he's like the nicest person that's what hooks was saying is the night he said, you're the only person in America. Is that a bad interaction with John? Totally
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My fault. <inaudible>
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One of the questions that boss and I ask most often of our guests is what made you want to be an actor? What led you down this path? And we got some really great answers. So take a listen to Jeff Brown, Stephanie White, and Sean got and talk about this very
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Thing you want to know. I was, I was yes, actor early, early on, which I think was detrimental to my work creatively as an actor personally. Why? Well, I decided, I mean, I remember being a kid and being like, everyone's like, you can be whatever you want when you grow up. And I was like, well, if I could be anything I want, why not be an actor? Like what, what's, what could be more fun than that? That sounds perfect. So
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Fence mechanism, a survival tactic. And so the fortunate side of that is with that, I developed a, a very refined skill of observation and, you know, add activity. Is that a word, an ability to adapt? Because I had to, I had to, it was tough at the time, but looking back, I'm so glad because it's, it's, it's it's thread that, that, that ability is threaded itself through, through my whole life. But what I'm thinking about is having that many siblings has to be a big part of your sense of humor.
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All of my memories about you from the theater school, all relate to hilarious things that you've said or did, are you the funny one in your sibling group? No, no, no. Nothing like,
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Amen. We're all the funny ones in my family. I mean, I don't, I don't think, you know, I try, but w w we, we all jockey to be the funny one in one way or another, maybe a couple, maybe two or three of us, more than the others. A little bit, but like, we're, we're constantly the thing about being a big family that really helps and really helped my acting a lot is timing. You like, you learn that, like, you've got one narrow window to six people or eight people when my parents were there and you're all trying to like crack each other up, particularly world teenagers and stuff.
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And we're trying to crack each other up. You've got about a quarter of a second to get your joke in, to maximize. If you're going to get laugh, to be able to say it before somebody else says it, if you miss it, it's gone. And so you, you learn timing that way. And that helped me immensely when I started doing, doing work on camera and like auditioning for, for sitcoms and, and, and a lot of commercial work and stuff like that, where, where comic timing was, was incredibly important. And it's one of it's, it's a, it's a massive strength of mine. And yet another strength that the theater school more or less didn't give a shit about.
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I mean, they didn't, nobody was, nobody was like, patting you on the back saying you've got great comic timing. You know, like if anything, it was, it was the opposite. It was like, stop trying to go from the last stop trying to get, yeah, God forbid, we get laughs. Right.
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We have found that a lot of people were motivated to go to a conservatory based on the level of engagement that they experienced with theater in their high school. Here's a great story from Rollo. Romig
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The theater almost by default because it was the first thing that I really enjoy doing. And that I seem like I was good at both at the same time. And like, I was good at math, but I hated math. I didn't get it. And so, so that was just what I went for. But, you know, my school, my high school had like 300 students in it. And so yeah, I did really well in the high school that was, you know, very like big fish in a small pond scenario. And so, but then on the other hand, the weird thing was like the drama teacher at my high school was really gung ho and she treated us like professionals and she treated us, like we were all going to go into the theater, even though it was weird, it was not a performing arts school.
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It was just like your normal sort of like Catholic high school. But she was like in her own universe where she was like, no, when you're in my shows, you are at a performing arts
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High school. Wow. So wait, she was waiting for Guffman. She was Christopher guest.
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Great. She was wonderful. You know, and she, and the funny thing is like, there were students from my school who became very successful in this tiny school. So like a couple of years older than me was Keegan Michael Key. And he said before that she was, and I knew him well at the time. And she said before that, that, I mean, he, he said before that she was like the formative influence, like she's the one who got him into music and drama teacher. And so, and he was really encouraging to me to, you know, like I remember like when he was already in drama school, I think at the university of Detroit.
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And I remember like visiting him there, he showed me around and he was great. And like, you know, he kind of made me, I don't wanna blame him, but he did make me kind of feel like I could do it. One
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Of the biggest obstacles to getting into theater school is the audition. Some of us were better prepared than others, both for what we were going to do, but also for what we were going to see when we were at these auditions, take a listen to Shayna from, and Larry Bates talking about auditioning.
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You remember like Carnegie Mellon when you said Carnegie Mellon. Right. Do you remember that? Yeah, well I did musical theater there, so, which was very different. So I I'm a singer, so I, I didn't know what I wanted to do if I wanted to go to straight. I knew I wanted to be like a serious actor, which is funny now because I'm a comedian, which is like ridiculous, but I definitely auditioned for the music theater department at Carnegie Mellon. And I'll never forget, there was a ballet audition. Okay. So like, how are these kids? Like, weren't, you know, we weren't dancers, but you had to do the dance audition. And I just remember sitting there and like the, everyone was stretching, you know, like getting real serious and just stretching.
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And there, some people were wearing like, like I was probably wearing sweat pants, but like this girl was wearing tights and a leotard and all of her pubes were out inside of her telling me she was like, stretching, like led up in the air, like, and just, and I just, you know, I was like 17, like, Ooh, like, oh my God, I probably didn't even have pubic hair like mortified, and I'll never forget it. And I had
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To drive to new Orleans, which was like four hours away. And my speech teacher gave me two, two plays. One was my children, my Africa. And I think the other one was like, whose life is it anyway. But one of them was about a guy who was a quadriplegic is, is from neck down. Right. And pear. Okay. Yeah. So he's a quadriplegic. So that was also very full of myself. So I'm like, oh, I'm just going to do this. I'm going to, I'm going to do the monologue, the quadriplegic. And again, and again, I didn't, I didn't read
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The play. I didn't read the play. I didn't have the concept of reading the play.
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So I'm like, yeah, I'm going to do that. I'm just going to sit there and just talk with my head and they're going to love, they're going to love me. They're going to love me. So I'm like, yeah. That's. So I work on that monologue for like two weeks, get in the car to drive to new Orleans. And I just go, you know what, Larry, maybe you should do something where you're a little more in the car ride. Yes. So I'm learning
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The monologue from my children, my
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Africa on the car ride to new Orleans. Okay. So Larry May have felt like
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He could get away with doing that because he had a lot of experience in high school doing speech and drama, but let's take a listen to Ryan Ketley to learn about what his experience was like. Having literally, never done a play or audition for anything in his life before coming to his theater school audition.
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But I never, I just asked so many people, I'm like, how do I do this? What do I do? You know, I was living with like my non-acting roommates and I would perform it for them. And they'd just be like, oh yeah, that's great. So how did you memorize, memorize all those lines? So I laugh about the, the audition because I walked in, it was the large movement room, John, I think John Jenkins was there. I know John Bridges was there, maybe Melissa Meltzer and Jim Mostel.
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Right. And I had no idea what to expect. I walk, I walk in and you know, it's empty except for a chair in the middle of the room. And I kinda looked at the chair. I'm like, I've never done this monologue sitting down. I'm thinking to myself, like, what do I do with this chair? So, I mean, I didn't, yeah. I just didn't know. And I mean, I was so nervous and, you know, just picture those four, especially Austel hop, just sitting there staring at me. So I grabbed the chair to kind of move it. And Jim, from, you know, all the way at the other end of the room, he's just like, put the chair up stage.
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I didn't know what that meant. Kidding you. I was like, I didn't, I was looking around and he's like, put the chair upstage. And so I kinda like I've moved. I don't, I don't remember what I did, but he literally had to say up by the other wall, you know? So I was like, okay, great. So, and you know, and I mean, they must've just been like you guys, like, are you kidding me? You didn't know it.
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In contrast to Ryan's experience, we have also interviewed plenty of people who were acting ever since they can remember. And just because somebody is born, wanting to be an actor doesn't mean they come from a family of performers. In fact, sometimes they come from a family of rugby players, listen to this story by Amy Farrell, that
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Annie thing was my dad who was that he was like a rugby player, construction worker, Irish motherfucker. And he was like, oh, what the fuck? What are you doing? What's his acting shit. He came to every rehearsal for Annie and sat in the back. He never said a thing like big. I just sit in there, never said a thing. And then one day we were driving home in the big suburban. He goes, Amy, that same with that with the dog, like I kid. And he got fucking love that dog. I don't believe it. I believe you don't love that dog. That dog is going to be everything to go into the backyard and we're going to practice. And we, Tony soprano acting coach before every performance of Annie, we did a complete rugby warmup in the backyard.
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Cause that's all he knew
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Was going to do a super cut of every time somebody brought up the marketing department on this podcast. We have many of us have said that the only way we ever found out about the school that we wanted to go to was because they sent us something in the mail and how there should be statues of the marketing department directed on the conservatory campuses. But let's hear a different kind of getting to know your school story from PJ powers feels
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Authentic about this place. And I, and I loved Chicago. I grew up just outside Detroit. So I'm, you know, Midwestern boy. So it, it just felt, it felt right. And what's funny is so that, that weird experience I had standing in the lobby of like, oh, there's no one actually here for me happened again. When I came back to audition. Cause like I flew into town by myself. I'm like, thanks, mom and dad, I just, just, you know, good luck get on a plane and took a cab to the theater school, like on a Friday. And the audition was Saturday morning and they were supposed to have a student host me for the night. Oh yeah, yeah. Or, or in their apartment or something.
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And so it was December. So, you know, people were on break. So there's not many people around the building. So again, I showed up and they're like, Ooh, yeah, we dropped the ball. There's no one to host. I'm 18 years old. I'm in Chicago. And I'm like, okay, where do I stay? Pull up the
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Mat and room for three.
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They just started like walking around the, the lounge there. And they're like, Hey, they might be willing to have this dude crash on his couch. And still Jessica, Jessica something I'm forgetting her last name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She was like, yeah, I'll take you. So she, she took me to dinner at salt and pepper and I like crashed on her couch audition. The next,
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We have also talked to people who really didn't know what to expect when they came to a big city and to a theater conservatory, listen to Tate Smith. As he talks about his first day at theater school,
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Sean Spratt was from San Jose. And then you had like hunter, Andre from Florida, who is like 50 years old as a freshman, you know, and you had Joe Jonas who had, and some of these people had done like movies and commercials and stuff, and people from Texas and Detroit and dancers and, you know, people that were smoking and wearing leather vests and fedoras had pagers. And I'd like to what is going on
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<inaudible> so we've
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Made it into theater school. We've gotten past our first day. We've some of us have gotten acquainted with for the first time with things like voice and speech and movement to music and pelvic clock and Feldon Christ and Linklater. And what we all get really excited about almost universally is when we're first going to be cast in something, there's a lot of anticipation around getting cast. And there's a lot of unsurprisingly disappointment there to people who got cast and things that they did not want to be cast in people who did not get cast and things that they did take a listen to Jen Kober and Eric Slater talking about to such experiences.
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Like I get that. I had a lot of tricks, you know, being when you do comedy there's tricks, there's, there's a little Rolodex of things you can do that are going to get a laugh, you know, repeating things and, and, and things like that. And, and I, I knew all of those tricks and I was very good at them and I understand them wanting to, you know, pull that back and get me into something that was more organic and more natural. But that's not what it felt like. It felt like they were just trying to like pull away everything. That was me and make me into this, this sort of neutral actress, which isn't what I wanted to do it. And they kept casting me in these 10. I was in a production of the birds in a workshop, in a fucking classroom.
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It was like a Greek era. Stephanie's yes. Yeah. It was awful. It was painful. It was awful. And it was directed by Rob chambers who was one of the most incredibly talented directors that, that school ever fucking produced. He was fantastic. I still know that cat to this day, I hang out with him. He's a great fucking director, but, but, but we're doing the birds as, as like a fucking, the workshop. Like, you know, Bella is sitting in the fall asleep because the room was so hot with him because it was the middle of the fucking winter. And we're dressed in leotards like Burke, Dallas, like a beach, looks like a penis on my face and the show.
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And I played, I was the king of the birds and I played it like Danny fucking Devita. I was like birds. Like they hated me. They hated me so much and anything I was doing and they weren't ready for me as a fucking bird, like who looks at me and says, yep. Bird. Like, I don't understand. So it was, it was annoying for me to be there because I didn't feel like they understood who I was. I didn't feel like they wanted to understand who I was. I don't feel like they wanted me to bring me to what I was doing. And that felt very stifling and confusing. And I wasn't a happy cat when I was there.
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Well, so it's a good thing. You didn't stay. But
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The adding machine was one of them. I really wanted to be in that one. And I really wanted to be in the seagull, like really bad. And I, that one hurt my feelings. I got my feelings that was Bella. And I, I remember talking to her, like go making an appointment and talking to her in her office after not getting it. And just, and I waited for the show to open and I saw it and I was just like, you know, can I talk to you about it? And she knew I was coming. Right. So I sit down and I was just like, so what's the problem. What's your problem with me? Why couldn't I be in that show? And her response was like, I didn't want you in it.
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And I was like,
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One of biggest memories from being at the theater school and being upset about casting is one I'm really not proud of, but in the spirit of trying to be truthful and owning it all, I will just say, yes, it was vandalism. Yes. The glass shattered. Actually there is no, but it was just bad, but I did
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Three to six months anyway. So my point is what, what, in some ways was worse or as damaging as getting cut was getting these shit parts every single time. Every single time I just yellow boat was just like a fun experience. But I was like in the chorus essentially. So, so it all culminated for me. When I kicked in the door, right. The door I was away, I was away. But I heard about, you told me about it. And Russell told me about it. I had kids. Did anyone ever, did you ever get busted? Nope. And they're not even in that building anymore.
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So I can't have the statute of limitations has expired. No, but it was the fi, remember how we used to go wait for the cast list? That's the worst? The worst. What was that bar? That Irish bar like a, a block away Kelly's was it called? Kelly is Navy Kelly's and wait for the cast list to come up. And then we go, so my very final term of my final year, I got another workshop and I kicked in the door.
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Okay. That was bad. But in my defense, I will say, I am not the only person who gets this passionate about doing a play. Listen to another story from Rollo. Romig about his high school drama teacher and man, she made it.
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So this teacher made it so exciting to like, you know, she made us feel like what we were doing was the most important thing in the world. And she had really high standards. Like I remember the first show that I was in with her when I was a sophomore was south Pacific. And it was like the night before we opened. And she was really unhappy with the level of focus coming from the chorus. She was enraged about it. And she started screaming. We were in the, like in the gym, which had been made in the auditorium. You know, it was all set up with folding chairs and everything already. We were ready to go and she just like lost it.
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And she just started screaming at us in the gym, like screaming at the chorus in particular,
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Like, what are you doing? This show starts
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Tomorrow. And while she's yelling, she's picking up metal cores incurred over her head and just shucking them across the room,
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Or they're flying into other folding chairs
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And crashing if he does this over and over. And like, and I remember some of the parents were like, not happy about this
2
Fucking around.
1
There is one story about how somebody dealt with their casting situation, that tops, every other story we had to include it, take a listen to John Cabrera,
3
The lovers together. And, and we both again experienced the defeat of being in the, in the workshop pool. My reaction to that was a little different from Gina's. But, and, and so I, I approached, you know, it was like, Hey, I got an idea I want to do. I want to do this photo shoot where I want to sort of through a series of, of images. I want to recreate my experience, discovering that I was cast in merrily, we roll along.
4
And so we did this whole photo shoot with
3
Me, like auditioning then me like, yeah. Then be like walking up to the door, be looking to see where my name was, then me like falling into the door, sliding down the drone. And then, and then when I did that, I had those photos developed. And then I printed them all onto white crew, the loom t-shirts that I got from Kmart or wherever. And I put all of them on one after the other. And then I put like my main shirt over the top of it. And I showed up, you know, to that day. And people were looking at me like, what's, what's wrong with that guy? Like, there's something going on with JP as he put on some weight or, you know, cause I was like really puffy, you know?
3
And then everyone was going around the room, they were going around the room, doing their thing, you know, and everyone was looking at me like, because everybody's got like <inaudible> and all that stuff. And JP is just sitting there twiddling his thumbs and they're thinking there's something up with JP and, and also they're also, some of them are thinking JP didn't do it. Like he didn't do he like he, you know, once again, just didn't bring in his assignment and he's going to come up with some excuse for why he doesn't have his work, you know? Cause that was also another trend with me is that I just didn't like doing homework.
3
And so they got to me and I stood up and I was like, yeah, I've been thinking a lot about this, you know, broken dreams thing. And you know, and I, I realize it's true that I do have a broken dream that I want to share with the class. And then I just proceeded to remove t-shirt after t-shirt and threw the t-shirts to people. And cause everyone was dying, laughing, including Betsy Hamilton. And they all wanted the t-shirts. Right. Like they, they were like, they were, you know, so I'd like toss in people t-shirts across the room. By the time we got to the end of it. And like Betsy was like on the floor. And of course she knew what I was saying, which was, I really, really, really don't want to buy, but she also couldn't deny that like brilliant.
3
I, you know, that I, that I, well, that she wanted that she, that she walked into that.
1
So let's say you're one of the people who was pretty happy with how you got cast and did it on a main stage show and did get a lead part that did not guarantee that there were not going to be any onstage calamities, take a listen to Sarah Shera par telling her story. Super funny. Okay. And, and,
2
And I was thinking about Lee Kirk, this, my cousin Lee Kirk was in it. Sean Gunn was in it. JP Cabrera was in it, Alex. I mean, and, and, and, and, and Bradley Walker and that, that play Kendra through. And that, that was, that play was epic. It was all I knew that was my favorite place for sure. That I did. Although, full of calamitous moments of, of outer tear and destruction. Did you get dizzy on that rake stage too? No, I got, I got sculled. I got to horrible things happen in the show I have to. Okay. So the first one was, there's always a show at the end of like one scene, there's like a coin toss. And then that determines what the next scene is going to be. And we had to run off stage. It was a rainstorm. We had to run back onstage wet.
2
So we got dunked with water off stage and ran back on. And I can't remember, Stan, I'm such a crumb. He was a lovely stage manager. He had long kind of Auburn hair and he was just adorable. Oh, yes.
1
It'll come to me. <inaudible> reddish
2
Hair. You're with me. Okay. I can picture him, but I can't. So I remember he had told the, the, the kids, I say kids cause what other, th th th the kids working crew, make sure you put relief, warm water in at the top of the act, put hot water in the bucket at the top of the app so that when we dunk them in water, they aren't freezing. And, oh, no, whoever neglected to do this. So did it at the end of the act. And I ran off stage and literally had a giant bucket of scalding water poured on top of me. And I had to run immediately back on stage and finish a scene that was alarming,
1
Scott horrible. And how far along were you on stage? I was on stage
2
Then for another few minutes, and then we did the coin toss, but I just looked at Kendra and like, you're doing the next scene. I was like, this is not because I couldn't go on. I was like hyperventilating. I'm like, I mean, it's like burn cream and my line. And then I had, like, I had like a scene or two to recover, and then I had to go back on. But that, because it was like the potential to do like eight different plays or whatever, the way that play was set up. But that wasn't the most terrifying moment. I will, the most terrifying thing that happened that show. So there was a whole big picnic scene. We were all, I remember this all on that hill. And Gus, the whole thing is about the extra guy. I think it was Bradley's character. An extra guy shows up. So we were one short we're, one short of everything. And all of the dialogue in that scene revolves around the one shortness and goddammit.
2
If I didn't open that picnic basket and it was fucking empty, there was like a napkin and two plates, and I'll never forget. And this is what I was thinking of liquor. Cause like I was really, I was really tight with those guys at the time and, and I was running the picnic. So all the dialogue was motivated by me, motivated by prompts about the things and about the lack of things. And I remember opening it up and looking at it being like, there's nothing in here and this is that the reskin, like there's people out there. And I turned to Sean, Sean, and go, and he was playing my boyfriend staff and I'm like, Stafford, could you go to the car and see if there's a bank in the com.
2
And I just remember looking over and seeing Lee Kerr, cause he could tell him he just went and put his hands behind his head and lean back. Like I can't wait to see how Sarah gets out of this one. I'll never forget that fucker. It was so funny. I mean, it was like the most panicked and we just had to basically make up the entire like, and then I remember seeing that same stage manager whip off his headset go poking around, trying to find, and then like, you know, three minutes later Sean comes walking out. I was like, oh, this is what you're looking for. I'm like, oh, it's super, thank you so much.
1
If the presiding memory for Sarah was about getting scalded in the show, there is another person whose presiding memory is actually about Sarah. And so let's listen to Bradley Walker just
3
When we're on this park bench, she's sitting on the bench and I'm kneeling behind the bench, sort of with my arm over it, like leaning on it. And we're having this prelude to a kiss, a scene and we were in the mural rescue and we're not miked and that's a big house and she was just speaking, just speaking normally. And just for a minute, I was completely taken out of the scene because I could feel all the resonance of her voice in the wood. Like, I mean, like she was her voice was, and she wasn't screaming.
3
She wasn't booming or belting. She just had the resonance and that frequency. And she filled up that hall and you know, we all could, we could cheat it if we couldn't, if we couldn't do it legitimately, we had our tricks, but she was just making that bench vibrate. And I, for whatever reason, I've always remembered that just what an amazing voice
1
Actors are often tasked with playing roles that are so far outside of their own experience, that they can be unnerving. Let's listen to another story from Ryan Kelly, Nicky, Nicky, silver. I love that play. I love at play so much. I love that play
3
And I'll always love it. It was, it was, that was the first full play. Cause the intro we kind of did, like, I don't know, we did like a one act and then we switched roles and we did the second act. So the intro wasn't like a full play, but I did raise an, a captivity and I I'll never forget it. Sean Gunn was in it with me. I was in it with him and he was, he was so good in that play. I'll never forget. And he's such a great actor and such a cool guy, but I have a scene where I play a gay prostitute and I'm making out with Sean Gunn, like rolling around on the floor. And, but like one of the, I think it was probably, you know, one of the first shows where we had audience, I had my college buddies and an ex-girlfriend sitting in the first row, you know, first grade sitting in the, you know, in the classroom, in the room there.
3
And they had no idea what to expect. I didn't tell him anything. I mean, they they'd never seen me act. They, you know, they're couple of the guys were like, you know, X jocks or whatever. And they're just like, what was that? They were like, clearly, what was that?
0
You know, they didn't know what to say after the show.
1
Okay. We've talked a lot about acting and actors and acting training, but theater school has a lot more disciplines than that. Including directing and set making and lighting design and costume and makeup. Let's listen to a story from Nick Boling about one particularly ambitious project he did.
3
So we, we were given an assignment. We had this class called, you know, con fab or something like that, collaboration, which was directors and designers and how cool it would have been if there could have been actors in that as well. But then that would have been the entire school. And that would have been a whole, you know, an enormous thing. That was one of the challenges. But anyway, concept, we were given an assignment to kind of work on a play called an opera called Triston. And he's old, his old day, I think is what it's called. And you know, it's this very passionate Wagnerian opera. And I was working on it with Kevin. It was just the two of us. And we were given a room over in the annex to, to design an idea, right?
3
So we came up with this idea of this room, filled with water, where there would be two naked bodies, two naked bodies, and then a burning ice moon. We wanted a burning ice moon in the room. The entire room would be black and there'd be come crystals sparkling through the whole room. And then this ice moon, we Burnie and pieces of what turned out to be plastic. So many wrongs burning and dripping down into the water, hot burning plastic, stopping in the water.
3
And I'm talking eight over a foot of water in this room. Now let me tell you where this room was located directly above the computer lab while nobody told us we could do that. Nobody told us we couldn't do it, Kevin, you know, we've we leak, we put stuff down to leak-proof the room. This is where Kevin was really amazing. He just was like, we can do it. And we get, and then we build this ice moon out of such a I'm sure there was something very toxic about this out of, you know, the plastic things that go around a can of soda, the things that are killing the animals and the turtles are stuck.
3
So we put them to good use. We, we put them inside this ice cone. That was, I mean, seriously, maybe. Well, I'd probably it's figured in my head, but maybe it was like 15 inches in diameter, whatever it be. And we put tons of them in there. And then when we did it, we lit the thing and it burned into the middle slowly and this, and it burns these little things off and go take this moon was melting. This ice moon was burning and freezing cold and drinking at the same time. You know, it's funny. Let me just say this. There was other smells to be involved because the room, the water had been sitting there for a few days with a bit of a, and that there were naked bottles.
1
So we've talked a lot about what people did in theater school, but we haven't really talked about the point of our show, which is how people survived. Many people survived on account of their friendships, the relationships that they developed when they were in theater school. That's certainly true for me. And for many people that we've talked to, let's listen to a story that both talks about that. And a particularly interesting acting exercise with David <inaudible> and John <inaudible>
3
That you're in the ensemble family mode during rehearsal. And it felt like kind of during a production, but then it was right back to, you know, this really intensely bizarre, like John there's no better, I guess, adverb than mind fuckery of, and, and it was, it was, I'm very grateful and many great, true friendships came out of that time because when you go through something that intense and that trying, but we, we, we, I would love to tell a quick story if I can, because we were kind of, we weren't kind of, we were absolutely fuck ups. We were in trouble a lot because it's no mystery that I had a pretty intense substance abuse problem in college.
3
And John had a pretty serious attitude problem in college. And neither of us dealt well with authority, although we loved being directed, which has always been a paradox with us. Like we love great directors. They get in and like help guide us and shape things. But at the same time, we are the first people to, you know, get our backs up sometimes. And I, and I remember John and I were so frustrated that some of the people like he, he, there was this, this feeling of like posturing or presentation that always felt in authentic to us. And we wanted, you know, Chicago, we want to rub real dirt on our faces and smashed glass, and we're going to get in there. And, and we were doing a scene together from Glen Gary, Glen Ross for second year scene study work with Joe <inaudible> and it was so intense.
3
It was the Moss era now seen at the Chinese restaurant. John is just needling into meta, like, you're going to, you're going to get in on this heist or I'm going to ruin your life. And we loved, like, we got into that so much. It was all space work. And we're in generally John and I were in, I was either in rave clothes or John was in some tight Bob Marley thing. And, and so we had this big, special guests coming to the theater school who was going to do a scene study workshop. And it was F Murray Abraham. And I'll never forget. We were all so excited, big fans. We go, they did it at a separate location on campus. And it was where it was where nobody cheated.
3
And he,
5
He goes, he blew through the fees
3
That he was working on so quickly. And he was getting frustrated, like stop with the bullshit, stop with the presentation. Like let's work these. No. So he was also like not giving, like he would give a really incisive note and then would be like, all right, now, fuck off and do better in life. You didn't want over preparation. He wanted this to be like a malleable Play-Doh eat kind of moment where we could. So we were part of that event, John and I were just sitting in the back row, probably like, just like, whoa, this is so cool, dude. Like that's every brand I'm doing seeds. And he looked to the crowd. He's like, is that all you got? Cause they had prepared. I don't remember four or five scenes for him.
3
Yeah. It was like, it looks like, well, it was like two from each classroom. And, and then we had like a break and the teachers were kind of looking around at each other like, well, that's all I had. And Dave, you went to it's Loic turn to me and John and slow. It goes,
5
You guys, can we do it, John? Can we do it? I was like, yeah, let's do it.
3
We had no prop prepper, everyone else's in costumes that they've got their props that John and I hopped up with. We, we may do right. We got a bottle that we brought from someone else's seen some cups and we jumped up there and we did this. We did the scene where F Murray had recently done the piece or he was familiar enough with it that he could kind of jump in and, and do with this. But I was so proud that day, even though I knew what F ups we were. And even though I knew that I was, I knew that the work we were putting into and the discipline and the, and the, and the love we were putting into building these characters together and how much we loved playing off one another was, I knew in that moment, this is something I'm going to do with this guy for the rest of my life.
3
And sure enough, we've gone on to do films, two films together, outside of school. We continue to collaborate. I knew in that moment though, I was like, this guy I'm holding onto him for the rest of my life. Dude, I to, I want to jump in because that was such a, that was, first of all, it was, it was an amazing experience that we were like, we were like greyhounds, just ready to run. And, and we were also, we didn't realize that. So I'm going to, we talk about surviving the theater school. I don't know where to start, but more importantly, I don't know where I should stop. So you guys got to shut me up. So, so I ran, I got that bottle from my roommate who drank Jamison, like all the time. So I ran across because we were in Seton hall, not Seton hall, but a sanctuary.
3
And I got the bottle on, it came back and Dave and I were getting ready and we do this, we do the scene. And I knew, we knew that F Murray was going to just like, give us a note and dismiss us. So he gave us this note. And the w the one thing was I had been breaking up this paragraph that I was given to Dave, you know, kind of feeling my way through it. And she kind of smacked him and he was like, you know, this David Mamet gives you all of the direction you need with the punctuation. It's like Shakespeare. And you need to just drive through without taking a break, because that's going to give you more payoff at the end of the, at the end of the scene. And Dave and I looked at each other and we just started doing the scene before he could dismiss us.
3
So we jumped right into it. And he had gone through all the people in our class that had been put forward. He had gone through upperclassmen, and that was the first group Dave and I were the first that had the audacity. Did you jump, take the note and jump back in that's when we finished, he was like, that is preparation, preparation, mother fuckers,
1
Any good theater school has professors and teachers who are characters themselves. And we have talked to so many people with so many wonderful and terrifying and horrible and funny and heartwarming stories of teachers and hear his boss talking about her encounters with her first year acting teacher. This is crazy.
2
Like he, my one, when I met with him and got a warning, the first, whenever the first warnings came out, we had to meet. And he was my teacher and we met, he literally said, what sign are you? I swear to God. And I said, I'm a Libra. And then he started talking about the problems that Libras had. I mean, it was crazy, but at the time, I didn't think it was crazy. Now, looking back, I'm like, what side? What did he literally was talking about astrology during?
0
What is <inaudible>?
1
Some professors are truly legends and one of them is Dr. Bella at kin. We're going to have in the future a whole episode devoted to Dr. Bella. But in the meantime, here's a great story from Susan Bennett.
2
Yes. Like, so I had, so I had Dr. Bella and I was a very repressed, very rigid person when I entered the theater school. And naturally I thought it was very edgy, but really what I wasn't very rigid for me. So you understand? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I thought I was cool. Really? I was in a few repressed state. Yes. So we've all been there and maybe that's what the draw to theater school is, is like you have this, you, whatever it is that you need, it is, it is kind of based in this need to find out for yourself who you really are and that's the time of life, but it's definitely what theater school, at least for yacht for undergrad folks was about.
2
And so Dr. Bella's class was technique and, you know, the look, the bellows, very understated person, very, very serious person. And that for me was very, very threatening because I was very supercilious and very on the surface about things and kind of had this edge that I was putting out in the world. And Dr. Pella was not impressed and had seen 4 million students like me. And she was trying to impart something that perhaps that even a certain point, she realized like this kid isn't ready to understand, like when she would say like, you'll feel it in your six, put it there.
2
And I didn't understand what that meant. I didn't understand like, oh, I have memories in my body, in my organism that I can draw upon. If I merely imagine that sensation there, it will go there. If I imagine that I'm excited and tense and upset, it will go there. If I imagine that I'm really relaxed and I'm, you know, in an essential situation, then I can put it in my body and my body will communicate things that my face won't communicate that my, you know, that I intellectually can't communicate. Like I will just communicate those things I didn't get. I didn't understand that. When did you get it?
2
When I got a C I got a C in Texas big and believe me, I was like, I wanted to be edgy, but I also want to get good grades. I had been like a great girl. Like I got good grades, goddammit. And so I got the, well, you know what? I think I came to understand that I didn't know what I was doing when I got the C, but it wasn't until, so the correction, I got the C I realized like, I don't know what, I don't understand what the fuck is going on. And then I started acting. I got very lucky when I came out of school, I was in a production of Layla liaison DonJoy and then I did a production of uncle Vanya. And it was in those, it was in those situations where I was on stage with other people who are really skilled and wonderful actors that I S I started to understand, like, it was through observation.
2
It was through kind of understanding, like, why, how are they able to create this over and over and over again? And I think honestly, probably maybe four or five years out of school, I started to kind of understand like, oh, I think now I get, cause she would say things like you're in the desert is very hot. You're thirsty. You've been out there a long time. And the phone rings. I'm like what he does, I'm in the desert phone, can't ring the desert instead of, oh, I'm hot. Like you're, you should be able to imagine it to switch between these states.
2
Right? First of all, I have to just say, you know, your impressions are
1
Fully channel
2
Channel. It's not even impression channeling. And I, I shouldn't be surprised for all the work you do with your body and your voice. You clearly, you know what you're doing, but when you say that stuff about like, it took you four or five years, I don't think I still know that
1
Acting is one of those things that looks really easy, but it's actually really hard and it's hard to teach acting. It's hard to learn acting. It's hard to do acting. And it is especially hard for people who were in their late teens and early twenties who are meant to play in a conservatory experience. The compliment of roles that are out there in the cannon of theater, which include a lot of characters that are not 21 years old. Listen to this story from Lee Kirk,
3
21 or something, 22 playing. Okay. I remember playing father Jack in dancing at Luna, so right. Okay. This guy is like in his he's like 55, I guess. And he has malaria. I had no clue. I had no connection to that. So I played him like a shuffling old man. I played him like he was 85, 90 years
2
Old wheezing and all this. And I remember one
3
Day Phil said to me, you realize he's like 55. Right? She's
2
Like, he's like my age almost. So yes. And I had
3
No use for that. I was like, I don't know how to play 50, hold on. Play 55. Like, all I can do is you old guy or young guy. So I'm playing old guy right now, you know?
1
Right. That's hilarious. Among other things, conservatories are also meant to be colleges and offering the same college experience as you might otherwise have. And most people in college are really trying to find themselves. So let's listen to a story from Siler Thomas about finding himself. But I w so,
3
And so we, the show is Phaedra's. I was on the lighting crew, my job during the show. And do you remember, they used to do these shows and no one would see them because they were only in December, your, your classmates wouldn't see your show. Remember that at all? I don't remember that at all. Yeah, it was. I hope they don't do it anymore because it's, you know, like no one gets to experience what you, what you're doing,
1
Because are you saying th this was just an optional thing.
3
Quarter system, you know, everyone goes home at Thanksgiving. I was assigned to this particular play, which only played in the month of December, which was fader that year. So nobody saw it. My friends didn't see it. No. I mean, only people that were crew and then the handful of subscribers to
2
These bad marketing right there.
3
The show is amazing. I sat in, there was a anyway, but, but I, I, I sat at this, at this place in the basement, turned off a switch off and on that was, I touched the switch four times. That's all I did a big, a big light move from one side of the shore to the other designed by John Colbert, brilliant lighting design. Like it was this beautiful show that absolutely no one saw, but I sat down there and I read mere Christianity by CS Lewis and just little light bulbs, or just like, as I'm like in the basement of the then Blackstone theater. So it was just this kind of really man, I'm just, I am, I am figuring out what's my worldview. Who am I? What's what's what, how does this all work together?
3
And, yeah, so that was, that was great. How
1
About the poetry of your on lighting crew and you have these light bulbs? Oh my gosh.
4
I love that you can credit me. And when you use that
1
Most, if not all theater, conservatories and programs in the world have abandoned. If they ever had one in the first place they're cut system boss and I were in school and many of our guests were in school at a time where the cut system was still very much in effect. And we wanted to take a moment to listen back to some people who were cut, sharing their stories. First up is Blake Hackler. So what is your understanding about why you didn't get asked back after your second year?
3
Oh yeah. So this is kind of a long involved story. So I feel like can do it, do it. So I sort of knew that I knew that it was a possibility because so in our second year, you know, we do those like seen like showings, right? Like everyone comes and watches and it's like a test. Right? So my first one was with Paul home Quist and we did this great scene from a play called the Lisbon Traviata. And we did an amazing job if I do say so myself and no, it was, it was, it was really good.
3
Dawn was super excited about it. And after that, so I got a lot of like, the faculty really thought it was great. They thought I did an amazing job, all of that. And then Don came in like that next week and was like, well, just get ready. Cause you're going to get caught. And I was like, why? I just did an amazing job at this. He's like, I know he's like, but these people have no imagination. And he's like, you did a great job, but you did a great job because so many things in your life right now are conspiring to like make, you know, what that scene is about. And he's like, what it shows is that you can do that thing.
3
Like you can do that kind of work, but you don't know how to like, get there on a consistent, you know, it's going to take. And, and he, he, he said, but they will expect this kind of work every single time now. And if you don't do it, they will think that you, you know yeah. And he was 100%, right? Yes. And so my official note, my official warning, it only had one thing on it. It, it said that I had a physical hold between my shoulder blades and you're kidding. No, I am not.
3
No, I'm
1
Not saying that on your physical
3
Hold between my shoulder blades and that I needed to, to work on that. And so I, I think the, my third, my like my third, like show was with, it was the Norman conquests and it was with Patrice, I think. Yes. Yes. And so I spoke to her about it and I'm like, I need to work on this. And she's like, great. We will, you know, we will do that. But that was it. Like, that was the only thing. And my GPA was like, like a 3.8 or a 3.9. Like I had like super high grades. So the day that I found out was I, they, they had just had their like big faculty powwow.
3
And so Don calls me right after. And he's like, well, I told you, so he's like, you've been cut. And I was like, really? And he was like, yes. He's like, but you can have wide. He was like, it doesn't matter. He's like, you're an actor. You're going to be totally fine. And I was like, Dawn, what do I do? And he's like, go and he's like, go to work, start auditioning. And then when you're ready to go back to school, you're going to be fine. And you know what I mean? And I think I just chose to believe him.
1
If you haven't listened to Blake's episode and you just heard that clip, you probably don't know that Blake went on after being cut to go to several other theater programs from which he graduated and actually is now running a department at SMU. Next up is ed Ryan.
3
Cause when I got my letter, it said that I had three absences from voice and speech. And to this day I say, no, I didn't. I would have never done that. Like I was pretty committed. She, I had a full freedom, so I was born like tongue tied. And she was like, I want you to go. I never had any speech issues, but she's like, I want you to go see this doctor. So I went to see this doctor bastion and he was an ear nose, throat guy that worked with actors in Chicago. And he was like, oh my God, let me clip it. And he's like, I've never gotten to do it. I was like, it's a little thing underneath your tongue. So it's, it actually tells your tongue behind your bottom teeth.
3
Like everybody's develops that way when you're pouring it recedes. If you're not, they usually just clip it when you're born, but they never discovered mine. And so I wound up letting this doctor like do it. And then I had rehearsal for like my intro with Trudy. And I just remember meeting her in her office and her being like sticking her thumb in my mouth and being like, oh yeah, you have a significant overbite. Like, and just saying like, you know, you don't have a speech issue, but maybe if you got your tongue, you know, released, it would change your speech. You know, I would love to see what it does. You know, I just felt like I was pretty committed to it.
3
And David was my acting teacher second year. And in David's class, it was like, I could do no wrong. You know what I mean? I remember like almost hating it, like him being like some like, okay, you know, you critique each other's like scenes or improv or whatever you were doing. And he would say, so who saw what ed was doing? And somebody was critiquing it. And they were like, what are you? He was like, you know, what are you talking about? Like, he was like, he was fine. Like, he was like, my opinion is the only one that matters. So, you know, and just being like, okay, for now, they hate it. I have to say, I'm shocked
2
That, you know, usually the story is that the second year acting teacher hates your guts and then you get cut. Like, that was my experience. Cause I was cut and then asked back crazy, crazy. But, but it's interesting that David, that thought you could do no wrong in your, as your acting teacher?
3
Well, well, it was really weird because I had David and first quarter I was in David's intro and he gave me a better grade in my intro. Then he did an acting class and I remember him saying to me, do you know why I did that? And me being like, yeah, like, and really having no clue. But I remember, I remember getting into a fight with him in that rehearsal for that intro and him saying something to being able to like, okay, well what, what, what do you want? And he was like, I don't know, you know, just, you better try something else. Cause that's not working. Like he yelled at me and everybody was like, oh, and David and I used to take these walks around the block at the theater school and have these little chats. And he was like, you know, he, he, he gave me every indication that he thought I was talented.
3
And then I remember my second year him saying to me, do you really want to be here for another two years? And I was like, well, yeah, you know, I really want a degree. And he was like, what are you going to get out of Shakespeare classes? And I remember, and I was like, I don't know. And then I remember telling him about my issues, Trudy and him being like, you know, Trudy. And he's like, I'm the head of the voice and speech, which I didn't even didn't really even know at the time, you know, it was odd to me that he was and, and then, but then he gave me, but then he gave me a bad grade, like in acting class. And so it was sort of like this. I was like, what the fuck?
3
Like what, you know,
1
And very ugly fact about theater is that it tests historically been not diverse and not inclusive. That is only beginning to change. Very recently. The dial is shifting ever so slightly thanks to the hard work of change makers, one of whom we interviewed. So take a listen to Justin Ross
3
To that, that story. And it was just was, it was beautiful to see, you know, my class was the largest black acting class that the school has ever had in the history of the Goodman school of drama. Yeah. We have. How
1
Many, can you give us a sense of how many people
3
12 in my acting class
1
That's amazing. Isn't that crazy?
4
Isn't that crazy? It's like, whoa, you know, it's both
1
Crazy that they didn't have this before. I mean, I I'm sure you've heard basically from the, yeah, it was like one, it was almost like a, a system designed to have one or two people of color. I mean, as you know, and Phyllis was our only professor of color and, and that, to my knowledge, that lasted for quite some time and 12, by the way, out of a hundred, did your, did you start with a hundred in your class?
3
Then we have 32, 30, 2 of us. And so 12 out of the 32. And actually what you're saying during the, our lady of key bail process, you know, when I came in, I started an organization called the black artists of today, which is the first affinity group that the school has seen in its history as well. I was like, oh, he's black. And I'm from Atlanta, it's black and hell here. So I was just like, all these black people. I was like, no, we can't together. What are we doing? And we're stronger together. And you know, a lot of, and so we came together and for key bay, especially we saw a lot of the unconscious bias and a lot of the aloof racism within that process, black people learn differently.
3
It's the truth. We, when you bring, that was a, that was an all black cast except for one white actor. We were, we were warming up with a dance. We were warming up with a Jim bay drum. That's not a process that usually people in the theater school go through. And so they, they did not respect our process is the truth of it. We're stepping into this, Rondon dialect these and people. So we need to step into the Rwandan music. The Randan th the, the, the, the, the culture of community. That's what African, a lot of African cultures are about is that community creating rhythm in a dance. Like we had a whole dance that they would not allow us to do.
3
There were just a lot of things that they were like, we can't make time for that. We can't do this. And then Phyllis watching Phyllis like have to like surrender. All of the kids in our class were like, what the fuck is going on? Like, hell no. Like we, and we had a whole moment where we were like, Phyllis, has this been what you've been going through all of these years? Is this what you've been going through?
1
The climate? It was like in the late nineties, take a listen to Stephanie White
2
And then obviously material material, historically. There's nothing, you know what I know, Stephanie and I, for Don Elko found a scene, we were trying to find a scene for a Latina and a black woman. Okay. We found a scene. There were no scenes, right? Like, this is shit. This is shit, shit, shit. But we, but we found it. I mean, and then he, and then the play was not well-written. We were real, super contemporary.
2
And we tried to bring it, like, give it like a real fresh edge with like up-to-date music and say, you know what I mean? And, and we're just really trying to sincerely connect with what, who we were as people and express ourselves through something other than like old white men from the 18 hundreds or whatever these scripts, you know, I just remember crying. I was crying. We both were falling in that because he's, he was what I heard was your shit. Nothing exists for you and your type, what is garbage?
2
And that's too bad. Yeah. That's too bad for you. You're an actress. You're supposed to be able to act. And it's like, but Hey,
4
Right. He wouldn't have that relevant.
1
Right. He wouldn't have probably either been able to grasp this whole idea of like, it was his job to help you find material that both was, you know, an acting challenge for you, but that also, wasn't just completely outside of your experience and that you could bring something unique. I mean, it really, among other things, it's a missed opportunity to provide, not just you, but all of us with like anything too cutting edge,
2
You know, I mean, I understand we're talking about the fundamentals here, you know, from like a real basic building block way. And I, I appreciate that a hundred percent. You gotta have that in any game you're trying to play, you know, but, but there needs to be the more accessibility for creativity and celebrating different experiences, not just, you know, I don't know, April or whatever, really. It really broke my heart. And it also propelled me to see, and it also, I felt really a lot closer to you.
2
And then I felt like we were able to, then we worked together on a different scene. And then we worked together in a kid's show and the police and the lion both were expressive in that way. Both were expressed. And you know what? They both came from him. He picked that scene that we did. And he directed Andrew please. And the line. Yeah.
1
Any harmful effects of not having proper representation generally in theater and in theater school is that students of color and students who are represent other oppressed voices have largely had to do the work, be the agents of change for institutions, which means that those college kids let's say in this example are both having to struggle with the experience of going to college, learning how to be an actor and do all of this social work. That really is not their responsibility. Take a listen to a interesting story from Leslie ivory.
1
And I are very interested in like, what's happening with people emotionally and psychologically while they're in school. Do you, did you know any, like shifts for you in terms of your emotional, psychological wellbeing? Did it get challenged? Yeah. I
2
Had a really big shift. I probably in January, so this would've been when I was halfway through our course. I hope I had it out with a few people in my class because, so we were, we came into new semester and we had new projects. The project was that every year they put on, they take a screenplay. Right. And we'll do sections of the screenplay and we'll have costumes. We'll have a whole semester on just character analysis and we'll go take a nice deep dive. So we did the film bell. Have you seen that with, with Google and bought the wrong? So it's a P it's a period piece. And it's about it's set in like 1749 and it's in England and it's a black woman and she, you saw that, right?
2
So her father is white. And so her father brings her over to the family. And so she's going how to navigate this 18th century, you know, aristocracy as a black woman. And meanwhile, you know, there's like this big, her, her, her grandfather, he's like a Supreme court judge. And so he's having to deal with this new case of the slave ship that was being drowned and tends to be or not. So he's having to preside over this case. So there are all of these at the center of it is race. I mean, it's about her navigating this world. So this was a play we're going to do. There are two of us who are, who are black women in the course. So at the architectures, like great, there's two women. They can handle it. And then everyone else, you know, we'll divvy it up. You choose your character. We'll go from there. So how it started was actually a course lead was on vacation or this time.
2
So another teacher stepped in and he came to me, he said, okay, just for this project, we're actually going to open up this character of Dido, who was a black woman to the rest of your female counterparts who are not of color at all. Okay. Would you mind sharing your experiences as a black woman to your, to your classmates? And let me say this, the person that the teacher who was talking to me, I adore him and immediately I was like, yes, of course, of course, because he's a person that you just don't, you just do anything for, cause he's so genuine. And he, and I just really vibe in such a great level and then went home and then I was like, wait a minute, I'll call my dad.
2
And I was like, this isn't, something's not, this is not right. This is not okay. As soon as I was like going home, I was like screaming. Cause I was like this, because the thing about it is that sure I can share my experiences. They don't, they don't give a shit. Because what I learned was that they are more concerned with how many lines from the play who was the, or in the screen who was the lead, who, you know, who gets to have the lead. So, so w we went back to teacher and I said, no, you will not open it up to, to my, my peers who are not of color because this whole industry is built to exclude people of color. And if they feel excluded, then that's a, that's a lesson to be learned for them to take on as they go out in the world.
2
And so we said, okay, you know what? You're right. Let's, you're right. We'll close it off. So we closed it off and that's when shit hit the fan. So there were protests within our class of, well, well, why can I play the lead role? And as a matter that she's black, who cares it, isn't about race racism, doesn't matter. You know, why do you feel that? Why are you angry? Why don't you feel that what you do? And, and what really got me was the fact that, and explaining, I shouldn't have had to explain myself, but, and trying to explain to my classmates respectfully, why this is an issue instead of being heard, I was being, you know, pushed back and shouted at and not listened to. And that's, and that that's was the issue for me. There's one thing to, to, you know, to educate your, your peers or to have a conversation when you came in, let me speak about my own experiences as a black woman, that's an issue for me.
2
So it got to the point where we had another person and their employee at the school come into our classes. But at this point, our class was starting just a fracture. She comes through classes to talk about empathy and race relations, and what's okay. Was that okay? And it just blew up even further and in a discussion where you think people would be like, oh, okay, we understand it's hard for people of color in the world. No, it was well, it's unfair because I should be getting this. I mean, it was just privileged. It's all it was just privilege about. And, and so they try, we had several discussions or discussions and it just got worse and worse.
2
And to the point where teachers just gave up and then we just kept going. And so at the end, so, you know, we did the scenes and it was over and at the MRI at the end of the course, I had a talk with our course leader and she's like, so do you think, you know, the, the class has gotten better? It's gotten healed. I was like, no, I mean, we were so fractured after that. Absolutely not. Oh, I'm sorry. Right. By a week before that all that happened, we were filming a scene. So you get, you have a partner and you can choose what on camera scene. You're going to do someone decided to film a scene from Django. Oh, no, no.
2
Hi Jane, because you all know what's coming. So I just so happen to sit next to the other, the, for my fellow black woman, who's in the course, she just happened to sit by each other because I think we have partners in the scene or something. And, and she said, should the me, she said, just that. And I was like, you would have heard that. She was like, okay. So let me go on rehearsal life. And then we hear it. And she just looks at me and we just, and we just like stopped. And so finally they saw it, and this is a short scene. Granted, I, should you not, they set it at least like seven times and this yes, because in the whole movie, I mean, not that it's an excuse, but that's to be expected.
2
So they, in this scene and money, this is what their tutor. I mean, our instructor, you know, this is all the whole class is here. So they, and we were like, what just happened? And the response was, oh, well, it's just a movie. So one of the gentlemen was from Croatia and the other was from, I think, Columbia, but it was just, well, it's just a film. So what's the big deal. That was the first response to us saying, do you not see an issue with this? That was the very first thing to be said. So this is how it started. And then after all of that started was everything with the movie with bell. So, and so this had been several months of this class. And so, and I think that's probably why I also was grateful for us moving online, because that also meant that I normally had to be in the same room as all this toxic, toxic people who didn't value me as a person who asked me repeatedly to push away a fight my identity for sake of a class exercise.
2
You know, I'm like, if I can, if I had to <inaudible>, it has been so, so hard people, if it meant I could be home in a safe, I was, I was not safe. That's the thing. I was not in a safe place. And I did not feel open. I didn't feel supported by my peers. So how could I be trained as a better actor if I don't even feel like I'm in a safe space to get my best self, but of course, I'm going to shut down and close off because you, you, you all shown yourself to me. But that being said that in itself taught me so much because that was kind of the first real awakening that I've had about myself and my relationship, my racial identity and others. And I think, you know, screw acting, training, screw movement, laying on the floor.
2
That was the class in itself. Right. And how I'm going to enter the world, especially in this industry. And that taught me all I needed to know. I was just going to say our guests, Bridgette <inaudible> talks a lot about trauma and how that really her body works, that she got into at the theater school with Patrice Eggleston, I believe was the main person.
2
Right. And that really freed her up to then go on. She left DePaul, but then she went on to, to, you know, do mega Feldon Christ work and more acting. And now as a therapist that also, I believe integrates some, some of that stuff into her therapy when she's working with clients. So I it's interesting, like she, when she was talking about trauma stored in the body, like even I in my head was kind of not poo-pooing it, but I just, I, you know, people always talk about the body remembers, but I really get it now. Like I re after this last sort of thing with me, it's like, I can see how it, it, it is right.
2
We don't look at it maybe, or we're starting to, you know, with these books and people are saying all kinds of things now it's coming out. But like, you know, growing up there was no, there was no connection to the body. And I think at the theater school, they were trying to get us to do that. But it's like, how do you connect to your body when your body is so filled with trauma?
1
Right. And also like in a way, I have a slightly more nuanced understanding. We've spent a lot of time talking about, they should have done this and they should have done that. And there were so many people who were in so much psychological pain and that kind of stuff came out and, and speech and movement class. And, you know, we were talking about like, everybody should have had a therapist or there should, and all of that is true, but at the same time, if you, if you opened yourself up to that idea, then like, it's, it is like being in a residential treatment program and that's a full-time job. And that can't be what your theater school is. I mean, that's really not their job. So I'm saying this to say like as much time as I've spent lamenting how unsupported we all were.
1
I also deeply understand why, why that had to be the case in certain cases. Yes.
2
And I, I can as well. It's just, it's like, it is so challenging for me to get to the point they want us. It was so hard for me to get to the point where I think they wanted us to get, there were so many roadblocks in the way, emotionally and physically that it's almost at least for people with complicated trauma histories, an insurmountable task to become a great actor and a theater conservatory when you've got all these roadblocks and trauma that has nothing to do with the teachers. Right. But they just triggered it. So like, it's a landmine situation. And I think the people, the people who did really well were people who either can totally compartmentalize like a hundred percent, like, I'm not saying they didn't have trauma.
2
I'm saying they were able to say, okay, either consciously or probably unconsciously at 17, 18, I'm not going to go there because I, I, they, they recognize maybe. And they were just like, Nope, this is about get becoming a famous actor. That's what I'm doing here. And, or there are people like me and perhaps you who are like, just so checked out that we didn't even know the depths of trauma that, that was in our bodies and, or we did. And we just couldn't, or there were people that just freaked out and had to leave right. Or, or were asked to leave because of, because of those roadblocks. So I feel like there's like different paths you can take to get through an experience like that.
2
And, you know, the people who really were quote successful, I think were people that either a didn't, like I said, didn't have the trauma or were able to totally compartmentalize missing the path to it because you can't scare or shame somebody into developing a sense of self and you can't develop it for them. You know, it's an, it's an offer. Does anybody have that born with that? Does that get created? Like do, were we the only, I mean, I think, you know, gender thing, you know, I've talked to, and we'll kind of get to how all this played out, but I ended up talking to Phyllis. I, I ended up presenting at the Feldon Christ conference in Chicago about 10 years ago.
2
And Phyllis was in my class, which is so funny. And so she took me out and took me to a place she was directing and we talked a lot and then spoke since then, because I do, and I haven't prioritized it with just life and everything else I've prioritized, but I'm very, very interested in the psychological health of people in theater conservatory specifically, obviously, because I, you know, I'm invested in that. And I, I spoke with her a bit and, and I spoke with the head of acting at Cal arts a bit. And, and where I'm coming from and looking at this, when you say agendas, does everybody, does anybody have this?
2
My guests and I have nothing to base this on accepted. I feel educated guess that almost everybody in these theater programs has unresolved trauma. And what are we doing as a faculty, as an institution to address the unresolved trauma? I mean, I think more and more that's likely becoming part of programs. I don't know that I know DePaul stopped cutting people, which my goodness talk about like activating unresolved trauma for people threatened to kick them out. So, gosh, yes. So any, it is something I'm very interested in.
1
All right, after that deep discussion, I'm going to take a right turn here. I want to end the episode with a grab bag of fun, little highlights that didn't necessarily fit into the theme for, for this, for this episode, but that we wanted to include in any case. So please enjoy stories from Kevin Fox, Jen Ellison, Jonas Avery, and Dawn, Vanessa brown. It's really
6
Amazing. And that showcase, like I kind of, you know, destroyed the room with it. It was, it was everything you could ever want in terms of how it went. And lots of people wanted to talk to me. And I went to meetings with lots of people and my friends, I was, it was, it was a fun time. I was out there with my friends, PJ and Seiler and, and Amy, I mean, the whole class is out there, but, you know, we were all hanging out and they were all excited for me that I got to go to these meetings and I still remember kind of what I wore to most of them. And it was just an error. I wish someone had, I wish someone had been like, no, no, don't, don't, don't don't wear that. Don't wear that. But it was, you know, it was what I had and it seemed like a nice thing to wear.
6
I felt fancy in it, but all the meetings were, and sometimes I would, the meeting would be with the person who actually saw me. And other times it would be somebody who worked for that person, but almost all the meetings were like, so when are you coming out here? And I was like, I'm a theater actor in Chicago. Like, but you know, like, what do you want me to do? You know, like I'm here now. And I can, you know, I may come out of here again. And I, I don't know why I thought those meetings going to go any differently than they're like, okay, we'll give Scott when you come out here. And I remember writing postcards to all those people, like with my horrible handwriting, writing postcards and sending them to those people, none of whom interacted with me, of course.
6
Why would you, what is he gonna do? Write me a postcard back. I've been thinking about you, Kevin,
1
We're dying for you to move back to LA. We're short on.
6
Yeah, but I met in Chicago
1
Anyway. So yes, I teach. So I don't teach in the theater school at DePaul, which I think is really funny communications school. I teach screenwriting and in various forms for a while, for about seven years, I taught ethics in a video game and cinema until they realized I didn't have of moral philosophy degree.
2
Oops. Did we forget something? Well, it was funny cause I saw it for like seven years.
1
And then one day I got an email from them saying, by the way, we don't think you have a degree in this, do you and I went, no, I just was told to teach this class. So I did. And then, and I actually got really good at it. And then they were like, we can't sorry. And I was like, I get it. You want somebody who has a degree in the thing they're teaching and didn't just teach it to themselves in order to, yeah, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. What year, if I'm understanding what you're saying, you got
7
A job teaching something
1
That you knew you didn't have a degree to teach and then you just taught it to yourself.
2
That's amazing. That's brilliant. You should, they actually should have promoted you to the head of the ethics department
3
With what, with running on empty. So I was doing coastal disturbances at the time and we, all of us, I mean, our, everybody in that show was getting auditions that we had, they were coming out of. Everybody was coming to, they wanted us. We, we were, we were a hot ticket and like movie stars were coming to see us directors were coming to see us. People were like, okay. And obviously a net was the one who flew off the charts and started working gangbusters. But for me, I got an audition, I guess Sidney Lumet came and saw it and wanted me for this film. But they were still working out the other characters and they had hired a river, was like the first person hired.
3
And then Christine Lahti came later and they didn't want to, they wanted to hire me, but they didn't think that I looked enough like them. So they, they, they were sort of like, they kept bringing me back and finally my mother called and said, or Jed, the agent call and say, don't keep bringing Jonas Avery back in. If you're not going to offer it to him. And then we got a call that I didn't get it. And then I guess what happened that up happening was they got Judd to play the dad and they realized that I could be Judson. And that's when they were like, okay, we can bring Jonathan. And so I that's how that worked. And it was, it was a great experience, but he was just, you know, the thing, things were a lot, a lot of fun river was, was a great big brother.
3
I was, I was, I'm an only child. And he treated me like a big brother in good ways. And in bad ways, he treated me no different than his little sister or some or joy was there. And so she, he, he would, we would, I remember there was one point when he, Martha Plimpton and I were rehearsing over on 19th street and Broadway. And we would, I had these, someone would give me a costal, these water balloons that looked like grenades. And we were filling up water balloons and dropping them on people and especially river wanting to make sure that we were dropping them on people, wearing business suits out of, out
2
Of a black neighborhood. You know, I mean, it was like, where, where, where do I fit? So I did what any, any, any smart person would do. I sold all my possessions, tried to shore up some bills and I moved to the Caribbean. I moved to Saint John plot
1
Twist. I would, did not see that coming. I
2
Moved to St. John. I took a preliminary trip. Cause I thought that's what I, because I had taken a vacation and I had gotten to know some local people and I thought they do nothing all day. Their jobs are nothing. I have been working like a dog. I'm going to the Caribbean. It was as simple as that. And I quickly found out, cause I actually researched this and did do it any island. That's not the United States. You need to have a round trip ticket because they don't want anybody dropping out of society in their island. They got enough and which is exactly what I was going to do.
2
But I ended up going and, and finding that St. John was what I needed to do. I started out living in a tent on a, on a campground and you could live there for a month and then you could find another place to live for a week. And then you could go back to the campground for a month. And as long as I kept my, my clothes free of mildew, I was okay. I mean, I, I lived on right. A few steps from the beach. There were wild donkeys. There were land.
2
What are they called? Land crabs. If you ever heard land crabs, the huge, and I became friends with the guy who ran the place. Well, we, we, we, and, and I had the most ridiculous blissful time. I worked for a couple of crazy AA members who lived on St. Thomas, by the way, St. Thomas is extremely dangerous. Don't go there. And they lived on St. Thomas and they would come by, they would come by the theory and they would open up. They owned a string of, of t-shirt shops. And I worked with Caribbean women at the t-shirt shop.
2
And the first day I was like, then I grabbed what you're doing. Sit down, gotten to be here. He talked about us, and then he'll go with the dollar man. And then the other man would take him all around the island, go sit down what you're doing. And then they would steal.
1
And you're like, yes, finally, I'm getting a real education.
2
Like here you're, you're in a gift, a family take these. I supplied my family with a lot of sweatshirts. And St. John taught me a huge lesson that I thought I was escaping. And the bigotry, like bigotry never leaves. There was a huge, you had this wonderful island and they called it paradise. Everybody lived like a hippie. I finally found, oh God, another story. I finally found a roommate. Her name was Joycelyn and she's 50 years old. And I said, hi, Joycelyn what, what are you doing? She said, oh, I'm having a nervous breakdown here.
2
You want to share an apartment? And I'm so nice. I was like, yeah, <inaudible> she looked like a mom. And I said, but wait a minute. But she didn't have, she had a teenage daughter. She didn't have custody of her daughter because the father had it. And I said, well, well, Joseph, why are you here? She said, well, I was running meth. And one time, you know, I got stopped by the Texas Rangers. And they said, ma'am, can we ask you what is in the back of your car? I said, she said, sure, officer I'm running math. I got a whole case of meth in the back of my car. And they laughed because she was white and looked simple and they let her go.
1
Everyone. It's Gina, just jumping on at the end here to say, if you haven't already please subscribe to the podcast. And also please give us a five star review. If you feel so inclined, if you really love us, please write a review. Having those reviews, whether they're good or not helps us with our algorithm in the matrix of it all. So it would be greatly appreciated. I survived theater school is an undeniable Inc production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina plegia are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited, and sound mixed by Gina plegia. For more information about this podcast or any other goings on of undeniable, Inc.
1
Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thanks. So I've never asked any, I don't think we've ever had asked any, any of our guests this question. So I'm going to ask it to you. Is there anything you really miss about theater school about when you were there? Yeah,
2
I miss the feeling of only having one thing to do,
8
Which was go to school
2
And experience one thing at a time. There was a lot of freedom in that I was thinking about that today. I was like, what is the nostalgic like, why, why do I think? Because there's another part of it. That's really nostalgic for me of thinking about the theater school and like, what is that? I was thinking about this morning when I knew we were talking and I was like, that's it, it's like, it's like camp, the same thing I miss about camp, which is you, you, you show up at this one place, right. That building on Kenmore, and you're going to be there all day and all night, but then you go home, but you know, that it's contained in that space.
1
Yes. And, and we were still at the position where people were telling us what to do. And there is a certain kind of freedom in that as much as we re you know, would've probably railed against it at the time. There is, you don't know what you've got until it's gone. Like you did. I didn't know how I felt my life was as complicated as it would ever be then. And now I understand it was a simple, right, right.
2
And I just remember things that, you know, things that seemed so upsetting. Right. So upsetting. And they were upsetting at the time, but I'm like, okay, this is, but yeah, like, I'm just thinking of like, when a boy, you know, I liked didn't like me or when I didn't get a role, but even that, because my self-esteem was so low, I never expected to get any good roles. So, but when a boy I thought liked me, you know, didn't like me at the theater school or like liked someone else. I really thought that was going to be the worst pain I ever felt in my life.
1
Can you imagine, we were saying to ourselves, when I'm an adult, I'm not going to have any of these problems. I'm going to buy whatever I want and do it. Oh my God.
2
We were so dumb, you know? But like, I think everyone is that way. I, I don't know, in some ways, and in fact, if you're not that sort of dumb, you might be in trouble.
1
Yeah. Yeah. I'd be in trouble. Yeah. The thing that I miss the most, or one of the things that I miss the most about that time is I had so much time to sit around and laugh with people. I loved that. I, and I had that, you know, in my twenties to some degree, but I haven't had, it's been a long time since it was a part of my everyday life to be among peers and just sit down and have a good laugh.
2
I agree. I think that's fantastic. And the other thing I remember is this was so funny. And Alex, Scooby is someone who I've reached out to a bunch and just never responded back. But Alex Scooby, after movement to music ones, this is the best. So I was so thirsty and he had a seven up. I remember, and I, I say, can I have a sip? And I took it and I drank the whole thing. And he was so mad at me. He was so angry at me. I couldn't help myself. And he was like, it would became this big thing. But now looking back, I think it was kind of, you know, it was Alex, Scooby was like very dramatic. He was like, that is really not cool. Like Christine crocheted on the pants, you know?
1
Yeah. I, you're going to love just listening. Cause I've got a lot of these, you know, just really funny stories. I have Shayna's story about the P I have Larry's story about choosing to go to his hunt, choosing a different monologues. Wait, that is brilliant. That is amazing.
2
You're doing this. So
1
When Eric Slater went to Bella's office and she said, I didn't want it.
2
It's fantastic. Why, why didn't I get CA I didn't want
1
Thinking about that and talking about Bella. I mean, I think she was always a bad ass, but that is something I look forward to. And even later life feeling even more and more free to just say it extremely plainly. Exactly. Like it is without,
2
You know. Yeah. I have this feeling of like, I wish I had spent more time with her. Yeah. I didn't know shit about like, and I think that comes with age too. And just like, I thought she was an old stodgy lady that was mean and kind of grumpy and, and, oh yeah. She had some history, but who cares about that? I'm into now. I wish I had really taken full advantage of the, of her, of her brilliance. I just, I was scared. And also, I didn't really feel free at the theater school to approach teachers. I didn't have yeah. As an, as to talk to them. So, yeah.
1
So I want to that question about what do you miss? I want to ask that of our guests going forward, more people I'm thinking about the things that we didn't talk about with people. I want to ask people about if they remember their private moment extra.
2
Yeah. Did we all heard that or just Don's class?
1
Well, a lot of us had Dawn, so
2
That was great.
1
I want to ask people about, we've talked to many people about movement to music, but not everybody. I want to get everybody's temperature on that. And I want to talk about what people thought of the work, because we really haven't spent any time talking about, like, I mean, when we've had individual people on, we've said that they re we really liked certain things they did, but like, did people feel when they saw the work excited that they were going to this school or was it more not, or was it a mixed bag?
1
I mean, I'm sure for most people, it was a mixed bag, but I had several moments of like, wow, there's a lot of talent here. You know, I had several like inspirational moments. We don't talk to people very much about watching each other. Mm. You know,
2
That is a great thing to ask people. Great. I, I think that's very insightful that you thought of that because I did have those moments too. Like I remember watching, oh my God. It was the commitments was that it was no the road. I don't know. Some, some British situation that I remember Mike Dunn was in, in, in a, in the movement to music room. And it was a workshop. It was the greatest. And I can't remember what it was. It was some thing that they later made into a movie. So good. And it was a, his ensemble cast. So funny. I remember the accents being so good.
2
So I had those moments, mostly in workshops.
1
Me too, me too. The, the experience I had a lot more about main stage shows was the spectacle of it, how beautiful the costumes were and, you know, and, and mean not to say that there wasn't a lot of great performances, but you got a much better chance to have that real raw kind of emotional experience in the world, like in
2
Your face, you know, like right in your face. That was so, so great. So yeah. That's a great question to ask
1
Us. Yeah. Okay. Anything else you want to say about these last 50 episodes, but what you want to get out of the next 50?
2
I just really want to continue exploring how we end up where we end up and is there, what is the benefit of looking back and, and, and why, and just keep asking, like, for me, like, where does the healing come from? Like, is it from the reliving? The thing, is it from talking about it? But like, I am really, I, I love at first, my really big thing was about resilience. Right. But now I'm really interested in healing, like in a true sense, healing, not just putting a, band-aid, not just, but like, what does it mean to heal? So that's where I'm headed.