{ "version": "1.0.0", "segments": [ { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "0.0", "endTime": "21.785", "body": "The time you have in your twenties is unbelievable. It is some of the the most valuable time you have, and there's a temptation to waste it doing things that don't really matter in the scheme of things. And so going back to your purpose and then thinking through how you spend time, really might ask yourself, is this a really valuable use of our time when we could be doing other more profitable things?" }, { "speaker": "Narrator", "startTime": "22.585", "endTime": "36.739998", "body": "Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and Doug give no nonsense advice to level up your life. So buckle up and listen closely to Up Your Average." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "42.739998", "endTime": "52.655003", "body": "Good morning, Caleb. What do you think? Not too much. You ready for another Up Your Average and hopefully bring some encouragement to some folks? Let's do it." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "52.975002", "endTime": "84.635", "body": "We are gonna spring back to our hypothetical friends, Paul Williams, and we can today, we're gonna call it either his wife or his girlfriend, Bridget, and they are 20 year olds. 20 we'll give them 20 to 22 year olds and say, what advice would we offer the young Paul and Bridget? And so I don't know if you wanna kick it off or if you want me to kinda kick off some thoughts about it, but let's let's help this couple along on their journey of life." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "84.715004", "endTime": "95.52", "body": "Yeah. I am a lot closer to that age than you are, so it's a lot more recent and relevant to me, but I'll let you kick it off. I'm curious to hear what you have to say." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "95.84", "endTime": "134.445", "body": "Well, I I think what I lacked as a 20 year old was purpose. And I think I would spend some time figuring out purpose because purpose works as a foundation to help you launch onto the things that matter. Yeah. And the system, the world system will tell you that what matters is money, things, shiny things, travel, you know, what the world sees, and I don't think that really I think that just wears out for people. So I would I would zero in and tell Paul and Bridget to think, What's a common purpose the two of you have?" }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "134.445", "endTime": "168.96501", "body": "And then go from there. And then what I would then say was to, in that purpose, I would value marriage and kids. I don't think our culture values marriage and kids. And so I would say, if you find the right person, like Paul and Bridget evidently have found each other, I would really step into the marriage and kids things. And I didn't really grasp that as a young man, and I was over 30 when I did both of those things." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "169.045", "endTime": "174.405", "body": "And I think if I had it to do again, I probably would kind of kick that ball off earlier." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "175.03", "endTime": "204.04", "body": "Yeah. We were talking about not necessarily kids last night or marriage with Judah and her family, but we're just saying, like, there's never gonna be a good time to do something. Like, there's always gonna be a reason to not do it, whether with kids or marriage, it's you're not financially ready. You don't have things in mind. You're too young." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "204.04", "endTime": "215.95999", "body": "Like, there's always gonna be reasons to kick it down the road or not go ahead and do something. So I I would say the right time to do it is right now." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "216.855", "endTime": "271.72", "body": "Yeah, I was gonna offer a reference to our friends that are watching as a good we talked about this last week on podcast number 79, and it's titled What Changed in sixty Years, talking a little bit about the history of financial services. And I think, unfortunately, the financial services industry, along with probably even the federal government, has devalued probably both of those things, kids and marriage. And the government did it through the agricultural department where they were saying it's like, I forget the number, $385,000 to raise each kid, which is absolutely not that expensive, but they don't talk about the benefit of having a spouse or the benefit of having a kid. And those are immeasurable things that I think would kind of fit into your purpose for life." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "271.87997", "endTime": "272.28", "body": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "274.595", "endTime": "281.55502", "body": "So you opted to get married at a young age. Tell tell our friends about that process." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "282.035", "endTime": "314.44", "body": "Yeah. I mean, I got married like, a week before my 20 birthday, which seems abnormal these days. But, like, looking back at it, my wife's parents got married at this age or early twenties. I think their parents got married early twenties. So it wasn't really anything new, but I think when you find your person, you you don't wanna wait." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "315.47998", "endTime": "357.575", "body": "I mean, we were I feel like Judah and I were already doing most things that a married couple were doing. We were down at school in Murray, Kentucky, spending most of our time together, but having to coordinate what time works to hang out, what time are you doing this, what time of that, rather than just coming home and being with each other. We were searching for churches we wanted to go to together, which I don't know. It seems more like what a married couple do. So there are just a lot of things that we were doing that was the point where was like, why don't we just get married?" }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "358.135", "endTime": "383.745", "body": "Yeah. I I think I probably you all may not like this. I think I told the Tyner kids, the only reason I could think to date was to have sex or to find your spouse, and I don't think having sex with somebody that's not your spouse is the most profitable thing. So if you found the right person, I don't understand why you would wait for a long term. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "383.82498", "endTime": "411.44003", "body": "I think it's what you started off saying is that we're waiting for everything to get in a certain place, and you never know if things are gonna get in a certain place. So you might as well, if you're confident that that's the right person, you might as well move forward and see what happens. So I thought that even, you know, as you got into the educational process, the cost of college even dropped for you guys because you were married. It" }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "411.92", "endTime": "451.51498", "body": "did. We instead of being under your income, yours and mom's income, it turned into our income. All we were making was what my internship was, which it was a lot of money for us at the time, but in the grand scheme of things, what the government perceives is we were making next to nothing. So we got some benefits for schooling, and I think I already had scholarships. And then on top of that, we were really just for my school paying for housing and food." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "451.91498", "endTime": "453.675", "body": "It's like schooling was paid for." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "453.675", "endTime": "470.58002", "body": "So the the government thought you impoverished. Did you feel poor? No. Yeah. I think poor, a lot of times, is a perception, and rich is a perception, but the things that matter in life, a lot of times, don't even cost money." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "471.025", "endTime": "505.435", "body": "Right. And so, you know, Paul and Bridget, they're 20, they're trying to decide whether to get married, or maybe they already are married. Let's say they put a purpose as a foundation, and then, you know, the system's gonna tell you not to have kids, and that's a really easy concept to adapt and accept. I was under that belief when mom and I got married and didn't really know if I wanted any kids. And then after we had our first one, was like, man, this is pretty good." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "505.435", "endTime": "532.42505", "body": "And I was a cheerleader all the way to number five. So I would have never guessed who would have had five kids, and looming in the back of my head was kids are an expense because the financial system talks about the expense. They put the perspective, you gotta do this for them, gotta do that, all these things you have to do. And the answer is you don't have to. We did a podcast on saying no a couple weeks ago, and you can say no to things." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "532.505", "endTime": "558.985", "body": "Yeah. I don't think it was common when I went to college that parents paid for their kids' college. But in the last forty plus years, it's been built into people's psyche that they are expected to pay for their kids' college. And I would just say, just say no, it's not an expectation we're gonna live up to. Because college may not be the right thing, and the cost of it has got out of line with reality of the days gone by." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "559.46497", "endTime": "568.745", "body": "But the other thing is that if you can think of children as a blessing rather than an expense, I think you're gonna have a whole different perspective about it." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "569.17", "endTime": "595.055", "body": "Yeah. And, I mean, I see Amanda with Elliot come in and just bring light into the office whenever he comes in, or we're just Judah and I were talking to some of our friends who have close to a two year old, and they said they're in a very busy season of life, but it's amazing. They they enjoy every last last bit of it." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "596.18994", "endTime": "664.195", "body": "We, I was showing you this earlier, it's an old article from Ameritech announcing firing of 2,500 managers back in 1992, and we helped a lot of phone company retirees in the day, and the people, depending on their pay grid, they basically made the same amount of money most of their careers. And what I discovered over time was the amount of money somebody made wasn't the determinant of wealth accumulation, but what I discovered was the number of kids that took them in the wealth. And it just puzzled my mathematical brain for a while, and then I had to stop and think about it. But those who tended to have more kids than the others, relative to their income, tended to have greater wealth. And it would have seemed intuitive that that's true, but the more I stepped back and thought about it, I was like, Oh, you had to live a more disciplined life with more kids because you didn't have the money to spend." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "664.195", "endTime": "696.565", "body": "You had to say no a lot more. That's And the fewer kids, the more extravagant as you were. And what happens in both of those lifestyles is you build habits up here, quality of life habits, and those quality of life habits consume your wealth. And so when the kids all flew the nest, the people that had a lower standard of living started accumulating wealth, and their wealth started growing pretty rapidly. Yeah, I don't know if I've ever heard anybody else talk about it, but it's a real fascinating mathematical thing that I think that's what happened." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "696.72504", "endTime": "700.325", "body": "Yeah. So what else would you offer to Paul and Bridget?" }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "700.565", "endTime": "738.42004", "body": "I mean, I feel like I wrote down some just basic advice for finances. I feel like a big one for our generation, even just around Greater Indianapolis is trying to keep up with the Joneses. You you ride down the street and you see every sign, every business trying to get your money. And it's alright to like you were talking, say no. Like, you don't need every every new iPhone." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "738.42004", "endTime": "755.555", "body": "You don't need all the new gadgets. You don't need to go clothes shopping every other weekend. Like, can if you can learn to be content, I think that will, one, help you financially, but two, just in life, being able to be content is a blessing." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "756.42", "endTime": "808.405", "body": "Yeah, contentment is a learned idea, because constant advertising is trying to get you discontent with what you have, and if you can make your ambition to lead a quiet, simple life, I think you're gonna find amazing opportunities. One the things I do is I go to the woods close to our house and go for a walk most days, and I'm entertained for about an hour every day, I'm mesmerized by what I see because it's never the same one day from the next, and it costs exactly zero other than in my taxes, right? Like, that's all it costs. Those kind of ideas can help you build wealth. We were talking on one that you and I were doing about the idea of one soft drink per family member per week at a restaurant." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "808.805", "endTime": "847.69", "body": "And I think we did the math for fifteen years, and I gave a wrong number. I think what it showed was just one soft drink for, say, six people for fifteen years, once a week was about $20,000 And so I would tell Paul and Bridget that you can do things, but maybe you just cut some corners like that. Maybe if you go out to eat, maybe maybe you share a meal from time to time, or maybe you you can do things on less when you're younger, and maybe you you just wait for coupons too. That that was a younger version of many of the things we had to do is use coupons more often." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "847.69", "endTime": "868.085", "body": "Yeah. And nowadays, you've got mobile apps for pretty much any restaurant, and they have all sorts of deals every day, which is part of my thinking with finding somewhere to eat for lunch or dinner is, alright, what's got the best deal today? I love it. If we're going out to eat. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "868.085", "endTime": "917.40497", "body": "I love it. So another idea that occurred to me with the 20 year old, particularly a young married couple, is I just wrote down in my thoughts one checkbook, there's a temptation today for people to have his, hers, and ours in the checkbook, and over the years that I've helped families with their finances, that is a surefire way to end up with a lot less wealth. Because really what you're talking about is this money that's in each of these separate ones, don't want to talk about, and we'll just talk about the shared one. And the more that you can communicate to one another and stay objective about how you're spending money, the more money you're gonna have later in life. The harder you have a hard time communicating about it, I think more money will be wasted on things that probably aren't necessary." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "917.565", "endTime": "944.67505", "body": "Yeah. That that just having a soundboard, even like, do we need this? Is this something we can't afford? It helps decipher whether you guys need it, can afford it, and whether it's something that will be beneficial for you guys. Because I know, say, in high school, when it was just me I had to worry about, it's like, oh, I've got the money." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "945.155", "endTime": "960.81", "body": "Alright. Let's do it. And then maybe two weeks down the road, I'm like, oh, I probably shouldn't have bought that. That was a waste of money. So even having to talk to your spouse or whatever gives you just more thinking like whether it's worth it or not." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "961.53", "endTime": "993.59", "body": "Another way I decipher whether, say, I'm going out clothes shopping and want to buy a new polo shirt is how much is it? Oh, is hypothetically, say it's $20. And or in high school, I make $150 every time I go have a shift. Oh, that's gonna take three hours of my time to afford that. Is that shirt worth three hours of my time?" }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "994.23", "endTime": "1000.405", "body": "And I think that helps help me go through and prioritize" }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1001.925", "endTime": "1040.78", "body": "what I want. I was taught to think that way a long time ago by a friend, and it's really helped me, like, I I, you know, I know that my wage has increased over time and that my hourly wage now, I can afford things that are not that big a decision, but at the same time, I value time so much that to just acquire something and not realize that it's gonna do much value for me for the future, just more often than not, I'm like, I'm good. I don't need But there's things that I value that I would spend money. Like, I value travel, so I would spend money on travel. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1040.78", "endTime": "1045.98", "body": "And that goes back to your purpose in life and your kind of mutual direction as a couple." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "1046.62", "endTime": "1086.115", "body": "And the last one I had for advice for Paul and Bridget is to live life. You're only I assume if you're 20, you might be in college, you're only in college once you probably have very low expenses, low responsibilities. If you're at, if you're not out of college or working a full time job, yeah, you don't, you're not tied up to anything. So if you have the money, you can go go travel, go go hang out, go do do stuff that you probably won't have the time or energy a few few years down the road." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1086.995", "endTime": "1125.275", "body": "That's that fits in with, like, one of our core principles at Gimbal is to live adventurously, and you can do that at any time. But definitely, when you're in your twenties and twenty twenty six, there's a big temptation for me just observing to do this. And looking at this, you are gonna never get that time back. And so I know in my twenties, one of the things that I did was I didn't value my time. And so that wasn't necessarily the thing I was looking at, but maybe I was watching TV when I could be doing something productive." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1125.9299", "endTime": "1160.3301", "body": "And the time you have in your twenties is unbelievable. It is some of the most valuable time you have, and there's a temptation to waste it doing things that don't really matter in the scheme of things. And so going back to your purpose and then thinking through how you spend time, really might ask yourself, is this a really valuable use of our time when we could be doing other more profitable things? Yeah. Other financial principles I'd throw out there to you, I would say, don't listen to the old advice." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1160.3301", "endTime": "1194.37", "body": "The old advice was buy more house than you can afford. In 2026, I think houses are overpriced, so buy the appropriate amount of house. Even if you buy too small a house, your finances are gonna work out better, your stress is gonna be better, and you can always upgrade. But if you get too big of a house, it's gonna create challenges and thoughts and frustrations, and you're going to then have to spend money to fill it up too with stuff that you may or may not want to buy right now. So Right." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1194.525", "endTime": "1228.905", "body": "That would be a practical thing I would say. I would throw out there, I said earlier, valued time, but if you're 20 years old, I would say plan on working fifty years. Base your career on fifty years, because I think you're going to be healthy at 70, most cases these days, that you guys are better educated about how to eat and exercise than my generation was. I plowed a lot of french fries in my twenties down. I would encourage you, don't plow french fries in your twenties." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1228.905", "endTime": "1271.65", "body": "Do whatever you can to keep your metabolism cranking out in your twenties. But think of your career as fifty years, and then you can turn down the noise from the financial services industry on how much you need to save in your twenties. I would say you need to save less in your twenties than most everybody else does, because you need to live in your twenties. And if you put a fifty year career or a timeframe, you can be more selective on the jobs you take, the wages you earn, you don't have to earn as much, and you can be in a situation where you find a role that you like. And I think if you like your role, it makes it a lot easier to save money, get up in the morning, stay healthy, do a lot of things." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1271.65", "endTime": "1285.2549", "body": "And if you don't enjoy your work, that's gonna cost you a lot over the next fifty years. Yeah. And then finally, I'd say by wisdom, you don't know what you don't know when you're in your twenties." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "1286.49", "endTime": "1287.21", "body": "Right." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1287.85", "endTime": "1318.73", "body": "And a smart man I'll probably screw this quote up. A smart man learns from his mistakes, and a wise man learns from other people's mistakes. And when you're buying wisdom, often you're gonna get the advice from other people's experiences to save you from having to cross that bridge. You can save more money by having wisdom in your life than not. And so that's probably a worthwhile idea for young people to keep in mind." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1319.45", "endTime": "1320.41", "body": "What else do you got" }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "1320.41", "endTime": "1357.37", "body": "for Paul and Bridget? Anything? I would just say, I think a lot of what at least young men struggle with is one, feel like they they feel like they have the burden of being able to financially provide. And it feels harder these days to buy a house or just afford groceries. But I would say just overall, the unknown is scary for young men, especially." }, { "speaker": "Caleb", "startTime": "1360.3049", "endTime": "1373.4249", "body": "But if you can learn to be content and just take it day by day, those days add up. And in a couple years, you'll look back and be amazed by how far you are. So that would be my last word of advice." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1373.55", "endTime": "1391.145", "body": "I think that's a spectacular way to bring this thing to a close is look to the future with a smile. Don't be afraid of it. It's gonna work out. And just know your friends here at Gimbal wanna help you up your average, and we're willing to cheer on the youngsters out there. If you got questions, we have some wisdom that we can help you on down the road." }, { "speaker": "Keith", "startTime": "1391.4651", "endTime": "1394.3451", "body": "Caleb, thanks for hanging out today. Thank you. See you guys soon." } ] }