WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.852 --> 00:00:27.392 Lisbeth: Hello and welcome, Lisbeth. 00:00:27.452 --> 00:00:29.062 I'm super excited to have you here. 00:00:30.132 --> 00:00:30.742 So am I. 00:00:31.022 --> 00:00:31.692 So am I. 00:00:31.722 --> 00:00:32.672 Very exciting. 00:00:32.692 --> 00:00:37.062 We just learned to know each other a little bit before we started to record. 00:00:37.062 --> 00:00:40.702 And I'm just very excited about our little chat that we're going to have. 00:00:40.702 --> 00:00:41.442 Yeah, me too. 00:00:41.452 --> 00:00:41.842 Anke: Me too. 00:00:41.842 --> 00:00:44.612 And I can't wait to, to introduce you to people. 00:00:45.702 --> 00:00:49.822 Well, there's a doggy podcast, like there's going to be dog barking. 00:00:49.942 --> 00:00:50.442 That's funny. 00:00:50.792 --> 00:00:51.892 Um, all right. 00:00:51.892 --> 00:00:55.552 So let's just start like, where are you based and, you know, 00:00:56.072 --> 00:00:57.462 what's your business with dogs? 00:00:58.462 --> 00:00:58.792 Lisbeth: Okay. 00:00:58.792 --> 00:01:01.552 So, uh, I am based in, in Norway. 00:01:02.112 --> 00:01:05.112 I actually, uh, right now I'm in the South of Norway, but. 00:01:05.617 --> 00:01:11.977 Four years ago I moved way up north, I mean above the Arctic Circle, in 00:01:11.977 --> 00:01:14.707 a small village with 280 people. 00:01:15.417 --> 00:01:19.537 It's like, you know, the most remote place, uh, on earth. 00:01:19.567 --> 00:01:19.887 Yeah. 00:01:20.337 --> 00:01:22.457 Not on earth, but well, pretty much so. 00:01:22.897 --> 00:01:26.787 Um, and, uh, I'm the founder of Nordic Dog Trainer. 00:01:26.857 --> 00:01:32.487 The whole name is, um, Education Center for, um, Ethical Dog Trainer. 00:01:32.497 --> 00:01:37.517 So in short, Nordic Dog Trainer, which I started in, uh, 12 years ago now. 00:01:37.737 --> 00:01:38.787 2011. 00:01:38.927 --> 00:01:39.167 Yeah. 00:01:40.477 --> 00:01:40.777 Anke: Wow. 00:01:41.137 --> 00:01:44.907 So what inspired you to, like, I mean, is that your first career or 00:01:44.947 --> 00:01:46.437 did you do something else before? 00:01:46.437 --> 00:01:51.797 Like, how did you go in there and also, you know, how did you find the 00:01:52.177 --> 00:01:56.277 path to be, you know, to literally even name it ethical dog training? 00:01:56.287 --> 00:01:58.617 Cause obviously you would have experienced something else where 00:01:58.617 --> 00:02:00.057 you thought like, this isn't right. 00:02:00.057 --> 00:02:00.297 Okay. 00:02:00.297 --> 00:02:00.537 I'll 00:02:00.537 --> 00:02:02.717 Lisbeth: try and keep this short. 00:02:03.297 --> 00:02:06.327 So, um, I'm 54 years old. 00:02:06.327 --> 00:02:10.882 So I started my business in dog training when I was 42 years old. 00:02:11.382 --> 00:02:12.972 So that's number one. 00:02:12.972 --> 00:02:14.032 You're never too old. 00:02:14.552 --> 00:02:19.152 Actually, it was the perfect time to do it because everything I've done before, 00:02:19.152 --> 00:02:20.652 which is a lot of different things. 00:02:20.652 --> 00:02:22.262 I used to work for hotels. 00:02:22.652 --> 00:02:24.512 I used to work for the Red Cross. 00:02:24.552 --> 00:02:30.382 I have a master's degree in international politics, which doesn't, you know, 00:02:30.392 --> 00:02:32.542 make sense for what I do today. 00:02:32.892 --> 00:02:37.147 So, um, yeah, First, I had a stroke. 00:02:38.667 --> 00:02:44.067 I had a stroke in my mid thirties, and then I had not 00:02:44.067 --> 00:02:45.817 only one, but two heart attacks. 00:02:46.367 --> 00:02:51.287 So at the time I was working as a teacher, as a lecturer at the university here 00:02:51.287 --> 00:02:58.097 in Norway, but due to my Unfortunate circumstances, that kind of job was 00:02:58.157 --> 00:03:03.137 not really, uh, something that I wanted to continue doing, uh, because 00:03:03.137 --> 00:03:05.577 I needed breaks during my workday. 00:03:06.187 --> 00:03:09.677 I loved my job, but it, and it was the most difficult thing I've ever 00:03:09.687 --> 00:03:16.327 done, uh, career wise, was to actually resign from a very good, secure job. 00:03:16.327 --> 00:03:18.207 I loved my colleagues and everything. 00:03:18.627 --> 00:03:23.887 It was very interesting, the job I was doing, but I've always loved. 00:03:24.342 --> 00:03:25.702 running my own businesses. 00:03:26.152 --> 00:03:30.662 Um, in 2003, I started a pet shop in Norway. 00:03:31.052 --> 00:03:33.712 I continued, I saw open another one. 00:03:33.742 --> 00:03:38.332 So I actually had two pet stores and I had an import company as well. 00:03:40.612 --> 00:03:46.632 And okay, so in 2001, I got my first dog as an adult because 00:03:46.632 --> 00:03:49.112 I lived abroad for 11 years. 00:03:49.157 --> 00:03:51.797 In 1989, I went abroad. 00:03:51.927 --> 00:03:56.307 I lived in different countries in Europe, and I came back to Norway in 2000. 00:03:56.897 --> 00:04:00.507 And in 2001, I got my first dog as an adult, because I wanted 00:04:00.527 --> 00:04:02.427 to stay in Norway for a while. 00:04:02.427 --> 00:04:03.767 I was working as a teacher. 00:04:04.327 --> 00:04:10.097 And then, by coincidence, I found Thurid Rugo's book on talking terms 00:04:10.127 --> 00:04:13.117 with dogs about the calming signals. 00:04:14.842 --> 00:04:15.852 And I still remember it. 00:04:15.942 --> 00:04:20.692 I was sitting outside on the veranda, actually, reading the book during 00:04:20.702 --> 00:04:26.752 just one weekend, and I thought, wow, it really resonates with the 00:04:26.752 --> 00:04:28.632 same way I'm thinking about dogs. 00:04:28.642 --> 00:04:30.262 It was not about training or anything. 00:04:30.272 --> 00:04:32.262 It was just about the behavior. 00:04:32.782 --> 00:04:33.872 and the dog language. 00:04:35.492 --> 00:04:42.432 So in 2003, I met Thudit because she is kind of the, she's not, of course, she 00:04:42.432 --> 00:04:47.452 didn't make up these comment signals herself, but she did a study, an 00:04:47.452 --> 00:04:51.222 observation study, for many years in dogs. 00:04:51.222 --> 00:04:55.802 And she was the first one to actually write it down and publish a book about it. 00:04:56.167 --> 00:04:56.417 Wow. 00:04:56.447 --> 00:04:57.817 In the late 90s. 00:04:58.127 --> 00:04:59.477 And she's Norwegian. 00:05:00.317 --> 00:05:06.437 So I got to know her in 2003 and later, because of my stroke and everything that 00:05:06.447 --> 00:05:12.187 happened health wise, I wasn't able to do her dog trainer school until 2011. 00:05:13.507 --> 00:05:18.567 And since then, I have been so lucky to that has been my mentor. 00:05:18.577 --> 00:05:21.587 She's been my teacher when it comes to calming signals. 00:05:21.967 --> 00:05:22.947 And now she's. 00:05:24.017 --> 00:05:27.477 teaching at our dog trainer school, you know, the table center. 00:05:30.547 --> 00:05:30.817 She's 00:05:30.817 --> 00:05:31.157 Anke: out. 00:05:32.217 --> 00:05:37.177 So, yeah, you will say that that it's. 00:05:38.112 --> 00:05:42.252 I mean, like that makes, I think that's probably what even drew me 00:05:42.292 --> 00:05:44.552 towards when I came across your work. 00:05:44.592 --> 00:05:50.962 It's that idea that it's like our job isn't necessarily to teach a lot of stuff. 00:05:50.962 --> 00:05:54.102 It's almost like it's our jobs to help the dogs relax. 00:05:54.112 --> 00:05:57.122 Like we put them in an environment that isn't necessarily 00:05:57.122 --> 00:05:58.337 their natural environment. 00:05:58.487 --> 00:06:02.417 So our job is to help them relax and you've got some 00:06:02.547 --> 00:06:03.997 magic tricks up your sleeve. 00:06:05.377 --> 00:06:06.107 Lisbeth: I do. 00:06:06.107 --> 00:06:06.657 I do. 00:06:06.657 --> 00:06:12.087 And that's the fantastic thing because I, I am the crazy dog woman for real. 00:06:12.147 --> 00:06:13.537 I mean, this is me. 00:06:13.547 --> 00:06:19.077 So, um, I ended up with eight dogs just because I could, I was living on my own, 00:06:19.077 --> 00:06:20.907 so I could, I didn't have to ask anyone. 00:06:21.307 --> 00:06:23.707 I took in rehomed dogs. 00:06:24.107 --> 00:06:26.117 So I had eight dogs. 00:06:26.472 --> 00:06:33.642 at the most and my interest in is in behavior and I just want dogs to have 00:06:33.642 --> 00:06:41.762 the best possible life that I can give them domestic dogs because I hate to 00:06:41.762 --> 00:06:46.062 say it but they are not free they're in captivity when we have them as pets 00:06:46.582 --> 00:06:48.612 and I think it's our responsibility. 00:06:50.152 --> 00:06:56.762 to know what kind of, uh, species that we're living with, to know 00:06:56.772 --> 00:07:00.242 the basic stuff with them so we can communicate and understand them, 00:07:00.242 --> 00:07:06.322 so we can provide the best living conditions possible for our dogs. 00:07:06.562 --> 00:07:09.502 It's nothing to do with being spoiled or anything, it's just 00:07:09.602 --> 00:07:15.767 the minimum requirements, I think, is that we understand What we 00:07:15.777 --> 00:07:18.077 decided to take into our homes. 00:07:18.747 --> 00:07:19.397 That's so true. 00:07:19.457 --> 00:07:20.067 That's so true. 00:07:20.307 --> 00:07:23.397 Anke: Is there something like one or two things or whatever, 00:07:23.447 --> 00:07:27.017 something in particular that you think, oh boy, I wish people knew. 00:07:27.297 --> 00:07:29.167 Something where people constantly put their foot up. 00:07:30.077 --> 00:07:31.747 Lisbeth: I, I wish I knew myself. 00:07:32.002 --> 00:07:37.652 The calming signals, the language, the small subtle signs to dogs because they 00:07:37.652 --> 00:07:42.532 speak all the time and we all think we know the dog's language like when it's 00:07:42.552 --> 00:07:46.732 wagging its tail it's happy and when it's growling it's you know angry or 00:07:46.742 --> 00:07:53.412 aggressive even you know but it's so much more to that and what I learned 00:07:53.452 --> 00:08:00.032 through my um school going to uh Turid's dog trainer school reading her books 00:08:00.332 --> 00:08:02.572 being mentored by her was just too good. 00:08:02.927 --> 00:08:11.017 Relax and stop training and start living normally relaxed, 00:08:11.267 --> 00:08:13.417 stress free life with my dogs. 00:08:13.897 --> 00:08:16.767 So we were talking earlier about the hand signal. 00:08:17.227 --> 00:08:18.737 We have something we call magic. 00:08:19.717 --> 00:08:20.537 And yeah. 00:08:20.537 --> 00:08:24.107 And I thought, how do I describe the way we train? 00:08:24.107 --> 00:08:25.677 We don't really train. 00:08:26.027 --> 00:08:27.187 We are teaching. 00:08:27.187 --> 00:08:30.197 We want to teach our dogs the same, same thing as training. 00:08:30.277 --> 00:08:30.737 Okay. 00:08:31.147 --> 00:08:36.802 So Positive dog training or ethical dog training, the way I see it, is not 00:08:37.602 --> 00:08:40.622 about drilling obedience or anything. 00:08:41.892 --> 00:08:43.942 We have to have boundaries. 00:08:44.172 --> 00:08:48.952 Our kids and our dogs cannot, you know, uh, walk all over the table 00:08:48.952 --> 00:08:53.632 and, you know, they have to be quiet at certain, uh, times and so on. 00:08:53.632 --> 00:09:00.802 So, they have to learn things to be able to live with us, but we don't do obedience 00:09:00.802 --> 00:09:03.952 or anything, and we, Don't speak so much. 00:09:03.952 --> 00:09:05.872 We don't give any cues or commands. 00:09:06.212 --> 00:09:09.222 So instead you can use your body language. 00:09:09.522 --> 00:09:16.482 You can show the palm of your hand to your dog and in most instances 00:09:16.532 --> 00:09:18.822 they will understand it immediately. 00:09:18.852 --> 00:09:20.932 Sometimes it takes a couple of times. 00:09:21.637 --> 00:09:24.477 depending on the dog in the situation and how you do it. 00:09:25.237 --> 00:09:28.697 But when I started using my body language in the community, and it's 00:09:28.697 --> 00:09:32.277 not a weird thing, we don't go, you know, with weird things, dancing or 00:09:32.277 --> 00:09:35.887 anything, it's just, you know, turning your head a little bit to the side. 00:09:36.127 --> 00:09:39.987 When you know how dogs communicate, it's so much easier to talk with them, 00:09:40.027 --> 00:09:42.547 to have, you know, a real conversation. 00:09:42.997 --> 00:09:43.397 Anke: Yeah. 00:09:43.617 --> 00:09:43.847 Yeah. 00:09:43.857 --> 00:09:47.707 I mean, and I try, I mean, I, I saw, you know, your, your webinar with 00:09:47.707 --> 00:09:50.717 the hand signal and I literally, I went off and tried it and I 00:09:50.977 --> 00:09:53.362 was like, I can't believe it. 00:09:53.362 --> 00:09:55.287 This is really magic. 00:09:55.517 --> 00:09:56.627 And it's so simple. 00:09:56.627 --> 00:09:58.347 It's like, we do it to people all the time. 00:09:58.357 --> 00:10:01.097 It's like, I'm talking on the phone, like, yeah, give me a second. 00:10:01.117 --> 00:10:01.387 Right. 00:10:01.607 --> 00:10:03.937 It's like literally that movement and they get it. 00:10:05.007 --> 00:10:05.357 Lisbeth: So that's 00:10:05.357 --> 00:10:06.197 Anke: fascinating. 00:10:06.527 --> 00:10:11.037 Lisbeth: A beautiful example how we can do things is instead, so what it 00:10:11.397 --> 00:10:17.457 helped me doing was to stop saying no, stop, don't do that, you know, and we 00:10:17.457 --> 00:10:22.067 try and do, you know, if, for example, a dog is jumping on you, you don't want 00:10:22.067 --> 00:10:24.427 your dog to jump at you at this moment. 00:10:24.437 --> 00:10:28.697 For example, I was carrying my, um, grocery bags. 00:10:28.707 --> 00:10:30.607 So this is a scenario. 00:10:30.607 --> 00:10:31.467 I come home. 00:10:32.147 --> 00:10:33.857 I have eight dogs waiting for me. 00:10:34.227 --> 00:10:37.437 They're very happy when I come home and I have two grocery bags. 00:10:38.427 --> 00:10:43.377 And, you know, the way I used to do it was to try and carry the grocery bags above my 00:10:43.377 --> 00:10:45.537 head, you know, so they couldn't reach it. 00:10:45.847 --> 00:10:47.397 And I went, Oh, stop it. 00:10:47.407 --> 00:10:48.687 You know, I'm very happy to see you. 00:10:48.687 --> 00:10:53.467 I was talking a lot and maybe even with a very loud voice, like stay down, you 00:10:53.467 --> 00:10:55.407 know, giving them cues and commands. 00:10:56.217 --> 00:11:00.407 And then when I learned more about this, I realized, Is there a 00:11:00.407 --> 00:11:02.387 problem to let them sniff my bags? 00:11:02.387 --> 00:11:05.547 No, it's not because I am in control of the grocery bags. 00:11:06.017 --> 00:11:10.457 So, one day I walked into the house with the grocery bags. 00:11:10.547 --> 00:11:14.077 I opened the door to the garden and I let them choose. 00:11:15.337 --> 00:11:18.627 And it took like 20 seconds. 00:11:18.677 --> 00:11:21.127 All of them had smelled my grocery bags. 00:11:21.197 --> 00:11:23.847 No one started eating what was inside of them. 00:11:24.167 --> 00:11:26.167 Nothing weird was happening. 00:11:26.652 --> 00:11:31.232 They just didn't jump anymore and they didn't bark and it 00:11:31.232 --> 00:11:32.972 was all more stress free. 00:11:32.972 --> 00:11:36.702 And I thought, wow, why don't I just continue behaving normal? 00:11:37.412 --> 00:11:38.682 Anke: Yeah, that's so true. 00:11:38.692 --> 00:11:43.232 And I love the, I love the like talking less, you know, I mean, I at home 00:11:43.232 --> 00:11:47.422 often get in trouble because like I do, I don't say a lot, you know, and 00:11:47.422 --> 00:11:51.496 then I'm getting accused for like, well, you let them do everything. 00:11:51.496 --> 00:11:54.212 I'm actually the, the more like strict ones. 00:11:54.212 --> 00:11:55.782 Like I love, I won't let them. 00:11:56.122 --> 00:12:00.282 back at the table because I don't want them to get used to it if visitors 00:12:00.282 --> 00:12:05.662 come, you know, but it's like, I just don't say much, you know, and, and it's 00:12:05.662 --> 00:12:09.657 so common that people like, you don't know, but you know, it's like, oh, it 00:12:09.657 --> 00:12:10.872 drives, you know, it makes me nervous. 00:12:10.872 --> 00:12:14.762 Lisbeth: We're making it so difficult. 00:12:15.172 --> 00:12:19.372 And when I see, and I've been to, I promise you, I've been to a lot of courses 00:12:19.372 --> 00:12:21.832 and webinars, trying to learn everything. 00:12:22.432 --> 00:12:28.447 And it's, It sounds so complicated, you know, uh, it's like we have 00:12:28.447 --> 00:12:30.247 a protocol for everything we do. 00:12:30.717 --> 00:12:33.767 And when I was in the beginning, when I went to courses myself and I 00:12:33.777 --> 00:12:37.197 tried to learn it, I was like, Oh my God, this is too complicated for me. 00:12:37.797 --> 00:12:39.877 So I, I can't do complicated. 00:12:39.907 --> 00:12:41.577 I just want to do easy. 00:12:42.017 --> 00:12:45.087 So what I want is my dogs to have a good life. 00:12:45.117 --> 00:12:49.817 I want them to have nice, relaxing walks because that's what I like, you know? 00:12:50.187 --> 00:12:53.837 So you can teach them to walk on a long, loose leash. 00:12:55.112 --> 00:12:58.412 Very easily, without cues and commands. 00:12:59.142 --> 00:13:00.682 Anke: And that's so refreshing. 00:13:00.682 --> 00:13:01.862 I just love it. 00:13:01.902 --> 00:13:02.742 Absolutely love it. 00:13:03.102 --> 00:13:08.232 So where can people go to, you know, to find out, to watch your webinars, to find 00:13:08.232 --> 00:13:10.072 out how to take your classes, join your 00:13:10.222 --> 00:13:10.672 Lisbeth: school? 00:13:10.787 --> 00:13:17.347 Yeah, because now we have a free lecture on or a free video on the 00:13:17.347 --> 00:13:18.867 hand signal that you're talking about. 00:13:18.897 --> 00:13:24.077 And this spring in May, we're going to do quite a few free webinars as well. 00:13:24.077 --> 00:13:27.412 So if you go to NordicDogTrainer. 00:13:27.442 --> 00:13:29.342 com, that's our website. 00:13:30.022 --> 00:13:32.272 There's a lot of free content. 00:13:32.322 --> 00:13:34.372 We have a lot of free lectures. 00:13:35.952 --> 00:13:39.762 Because, okay, I have crazy goals. 00:13:39.892 --> 00:13:44.452 I want as many people as possible to hear about this so they 00:13:44.452 --> 00:13:46.862 can make an educated decision. 00:13:46.932 --> 00:13:52.922 I'm not saying that my method is the best or what we are doing is the best. 00:13:53.122 --> 00:13:57.102 Of course, I think it is because it made my life much easier. 00:13:57.712 --> 00:14:04.852 Um, but, uh, it, it really, surely is ethical and less stressful for your 00:14:04.852 --> 00:14:08.492 dog, and then less behavior problems. 00:14:09.567 --> 00:14:12.047 Anke: That make, it just makes so much sense, right? 00:14:12.337 --> 00:14:16.017 So I highly recommend, obviously the link, we're going to pop it in the show notes, 00:14:16.057 --> 00:14:19.177 underneath the video, in the newsletter, so it's going to be easy to find us. 00:14:19.377 --> 00:14:23.747 So do yourself a favor, check, check them out, they're absolutely fabulous. 00:14:23.747 --> 00:14:24.077 And also, 00:14:24.537 --> 00:14:30.507 Lisbeth: um, so on Wednesday evenings at 7 o'clock Central European Time, I'm on 00:14:30.507 --> 00:14:34.817 Facebook, on our Facebook page, Nordic Dog Trainer where I do free Facebook 00:14:34.817 --> 00:14:36.867 lives, and all of them are recorded. 00:14:36.867 --> 00:14:39.537 And we talk about these things, just like we are now. 00:14:39.947 --> 00:14:41.577 Yeah, and I've seen, I've seen a 00:14:41.577 --> 00:14:44.827 Anke: couple, so they're absolutely awesome, so do join that and And, 00:14:44.867 --> 00:14:48.837 you know, because it makes for a lot, much, much more relaxed and happy life 00:14:48.847 --> 00:14:50.317 for pretty much everyone involved. 00:14:50.437 --> 00:14:51.729 So, thank you so much. 00:14:51.729 --> 00:14:53.176 I'm so glad you confirmed this. 00:14:53.176 --> 00:14:53.417 Yeah. 00:14:53.417 --> 00:14:54.157 Thank you. 00:14:55.447 --> 00:14:57.027 It was an absolute delight having you. 00:14:57.057 --> 00:14:59.477 So, I will hope to see you soon. 00:14:59.607 --> 00:15:00.067 Thank you. 00:15:00.267 --> 00:15:00.557 Thank you. 00:15:00.567 --> 00:15:01.147 Thank you. 00:15:01.558 --> 00:15:02.788 Thanks so much for listening. 00:15:03.308 --> 00:15:07.608 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:15:07.708 --> 00:15:09.488 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:15:10.278 --> 00:15:13.768 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:15:14.198 --> 00:15:19.768 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:15:19.868 --> 00:15:22.238 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:15:22.238 --> 00:15:25.968 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:15:26.388 --> 00:15:27.528 I'd love an introduction. 00:15:28.008 --> 00:15:29.838 Email me at Anke. 00:15:30.108 --> 00:15:34.343 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.