Victor Lagos: Welcome to the Debt to Financial Freedom Podcast. I'm your host, Victor Lagos, and the founder of Lagos Financial. I've been in the finance and lending industry for 16 years, and I've personally made financial mistakes and learn from them. I started this podcast to share stories and lessons on my own journey, and to share insights that may help others on their journey. And I interviewed people that I've connected with that share the same values and mission to help others create financial freedom.
Victor Lagos: My goal this podcast is to share raw, honest, transparent and helpful stories that you can relate to, and inspires you to take control of your finances and only have debt that brings you closer to financial freedom.
Victor Lagos: Everything on this podcast is general in nature. And for education purposes only. None of your personal objectives, financial situation or needs have been taken into consideration. I highly recommend you seek personal financial, legal taxation and credit advice before you take any action on what has been heard on this podcast.
Victor Lagos: Welcome to episode four of the debt to financial freedom podcast. I'm your host, Victor Lagos. I'm also the founder of Lagos Financial, which is a finance broking business. Today we have a special guest, Alex Minter, from a student property network. He's a buyer's agent.
Victor Lagos: He used to work for a developer.
Victor Lagos: He's aligned with the mortgage aggregator that I work with. We met last year and we had a we had actually no we met a couple of years ago. We are, yeah, but face to face with a lot see. And we connected because we share a passion about helping people understand what they can do to improve their chances of success in property and what they can do prepare themselves for what's out there and not be taken advantage of. Absolutely. So, Alex, welcome.
Alex Minter: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Want to add this is my first podcast. So
Victor Lagos: I hope you enjoy the pressures on now. I really appreciate you coming out and spending the time because, you know, this is a really important topic. I shared it in episode one about my parents, you know, when it came to debt that my mom accumulated, that was a big part of it. But another part is when what happened was they were sold brand new property off the plan.
Victor Lagos: I was much younger. And I didn't actually know what was going on at the time. I only know this in hindsight now that had been in in the industry for a while and I've had involvement in property. But basically what happened was there was a recipe for disaster they they bought brand new, they thought it was a freestanding house. Turns out it was part of a gated community.
Victor Lagos: So illustrata casa, didn't account for the loan was an interest only for five years, I believe was only like one or two years. So the loan reverted to p&i unexpectedly there in the property prices went down and this was in, in Queensland, specifically in the Gulf Coast, Nerang sub it was and the tenants moved out. And then on top of that, when mom was out of work, so for like a year, they were in financial hardship, trying to hold on to this property, they put $100,000 of their own money from home equity to buy this place. After a year of hardship, they had to cut their losses. They sold that property for much less than what they bought it. So the 100 Grand was gone. And get this, they still owe 20,000 to the bank after selling it, so the bank had to agree to let them to sell it at a loss. So the bank defaulted them. So they weren't able to ever borrow again. They ended up having to sell their home not too long after that.
Victor Lagos: Now they're in a seven is the retired on the age pension, and paying rent, and they'd have no money to their name. So my purpose with this podcast in bringing you along, Alex is to really share some of your experiences working in the sight of the developer. And also now we help people to buy a property that's established property where it's a fee for service, it's all transparent. And just so they're aware of what goes on out there. Like how can we stop this from happening to other people, so they don't end up like my parents?
Alex Minter: Absolutely. Yeah, look, sorry to hear that's happened or the experience that your parents have had? And the unfortunate thing is, it's happened to many people, right.
Alex Minter: My ask, you know, how they got into that situation where they advise did they just go to a developer to buy directly from them? Or was it a recommendation? Yeah, it's
Victor Lagos: a good question.
Victor Lagos: So one of the questions I wanted to ask you, which is what's the difference? Well, what's a what's a project market or property? spruikers because people don't know those terms.
Victor Lagos: They might have heard a property speaker but this property they bought was sold to them through a project marketer, and they presented themselves As as, you know, property strategist or you know, property investment specialist or something like that they present, you know, high quality fliers and in booklets and they all the shiny stuff and they say, We know you want financial freedom, we know you're wanting to provide for your family, we've got a pathway to do it, you're gonna get depreciation benefits. This is the cash flow, you're gonna get this is the capital growth that we're estimating. We've done all the research for you, you don't have to do the research, all you got to do is sign this contract.
Victor Lagos: And guess what, it doesn't cost you anything. That's how they sell it to them. They're like, this is too good to be true, because they care about their family, because they're wanting to provide they signed dotted line. And next thing, you know, they don't actually realize that they bought an overinflated property. Because there was commission built into the price.
Victor Lagos: And what many people don't know is that that commission is sometimes 3040 $50,000. And a buying in an area. And I know, you shared this recently on a workshop we talked about, but they're buying an area where there's a lot of new development. So the time it will take to get that capital should even get even to what they bought it for. Is there's a big lag there. Sounds like it didn't even happen. It never happened went backwards. So obviously, the rank probably went up since then. But someone else got the gain from their loss. Right. So that's, yeah, that's what I
Alex Minter: understand. Well, look, the I mean, the words Brooker has been around for years, and is organizations that have been doing this for years.
Alex Minter: Right. And there still is today.
Alex Minter: Okay, so it differentiate, you know, spruikers, compared to property advisors, legitimate property advisors or buyer's agents, I mean, this broker typically hold events, you know, you go to an event, I mean, in this day and age, it's done on webinars as well. Right. But, but they hold events, they put on, you know, all the jazz, there's food drinks, you know, there's researchers there. And look, you know, there's a lot of shiny lights, they do educate on areas, I do that I think, you know, part of these events, some, some of them are good, right. But then there's always, oh, and by the way, we have some opportunities here for you tonight, right? So typical, you know, scarcity, as well, if you sign up tonight, there may be some incentives and stuff. But look, and then you know, they're naturally selling for the developer, right? So, so that in a nutshell, is how spruikers operate. And we've even seen today, the model is changing a little bit where, you know, they still hold events, they still put on all the shiny lights, or the glitz and glamour. They even charge you to sign up to the organization, right. So they do they charge your membership, they charge you a fee, whatever that entails, you know, management fee, service fee, whatever it is. And they still only do new off the plan selling for developers and getting paid from that side as well.
Victor Lagos: And do any of them actually, always, I was always curious about this, like, are there some of them that legitimately help? And they disclose how much they make? And they maybe even share that with the customer? Yeah, yeah, put a discount in the property, others, some of them, they will buy new property as well. Right.
Victor Lagos: Exactly.
Alex Minter: Exactly. Right. And I think we may touch on this later on in this conversation. I don't think we should be, you know, telling people never buy from a developer or never buy from a builder, right? Because the reality is we need developers and we need we need builders, right? Where where I think there needs to be more awareness is, you know, if you're working with an organization that is promoting only that type product, and not diversification into other assets or property types. People need to understand they're working for the developer or they're working for the vendor.
Alex Minter: Think. And again, there's no no problem in that mean, there's always a cost to a sale, right?
Alex Minter: developers need these types of organizations. But yeah, I think there needs to be more awareness broader around that.
Victor Lagos: Why isn't it regulated? That's, that's always another thing, right? It's this Yeah, everyone's wants to buy property. It's an Australian dream. Why hasn't the government come up with some regulations to protect people from these? You know, sales tactics or practices that go on? Sure. Is it because they make so much money from?
Alex Minter: Look, you know, the government need developers, the government need people to buy property? Right? I mean, you know, look at how much they would make and stamps. Okay. You know, how do you regulate the property space? It's such an open book. I mean, if they bring in regulation for people selling property, how do they regulate every single real estate agent who is saying, you know, you should buy this property because of all these attributes, you know, what I mean? So I think where the gray area is, is and where there needs to be more regulation is, if your organization or the company you work for is in the space and promoting wealth creation, you know, building wealth through property, like I think that needs to be more more regulated.
Alex Minter: Because because it falls under advice. Well, yeah, I mean, it walks the fine line, it walks a fine line, there are industry bodies out there, which we are members of as well. PIP Yeah.
Alex Minter: So, so there for my understanding, they're at the forefront of, you know, more regulation now, space. Okay. So what are the what are the requirements that they create?
Alex Minter: Well, disclose. So if you're part of that organization, you know, if you are getting paid by the developer, if you're getting paid by whoever it is, you have to disclose that right.
Alex Minter: Transparency is a big one here.
Alex Minter: Right? So, you know, I think their major thing is always keeping the buyers best interest at heart. Okay. So whether, if you are charging the vendor, and it's case, it's disclosure in that space, however, if you are charging a fee for service, you can't be clipping the other side as well. Right? So it's one or the other. Okay, so that's where the gray area is. And I think it's too hard at this stage to regulate, right? So but if
Victor Lagos: they do disclose it, they can just put it in a contract and say, Yeah, we make, you know, 1520 30,000, blah, blah, blah, but we've still done the research, like, they can still easily talk around it.
Victor Lagos: Yeah. And not let the customer know that. Yeah, they're paying more than they would if they found that private property themselves. Yeah. Or if they bought the land, and they saw the builder, and they got it, you know, priced up, like so, that doesn't really solve the problem. Obviously, it does help by disclosing. But I guess the purpose why I'm asking this is like, is there more education out there is other resources available for potential buyers so that they can become more empowered themselves and not rely on, you know, property?
Victor Lagos: Market or whatnot to actually do the work for them?
Alex Minter: Yep. I think, you know, I think we should be clear as well. I mean, there are marketers, there are people out there who do new properties or work with developers who I believe they have a genuine interest to help people, right, because I was one of those at one point, right. And it comes down to think about things like this, the state that the building industry is in at the moment. And Kay, you know, let's put a date on this. We're February 2023, in the last 12 month building has been struggling. Okay. There's a lot of builders out there that have to try and recoup what they've just lost over the last 1224 months. Okay, so if they're continuing to operate in the industry, their prices have gone up. That's okay. And their margins, the margins are, right.
Alex Minter: So if a builder is selling you a build for I'll just pull a figure out the $400,000. Right?
Alex Minter: These the builder within their right to charge 400,000. They absolutely are, right, because that's probably what a cost to build that property. Right. So we can't be sitting here saying, well, the builder shouldn't be charging that because I believe it's worth less, right. Is a land developer in their right to charge what the market is paying for that for land? They absolutely are. Right. But when you look at pack packaging that together, you know, you've got to go okay, well, what I'm buying this for, what is this the true value for property in the suburban my over that at the moment? Right? Does that make sense?
Victor Lagos: So and if if they disclose it, say that same example 400 for the build, say the land is say, 300, that's 700,000. If there's a middleman that says, I'm gonna package it up for you, you know, this is the ideal area to help you create wealth. And now you're paying 750. That's right. Yeah.
Victor Lagos: And this is where that's where the buyer needs to be aware that it's only worth 700. That's the true cost, if it's worth 700.
Victor Lagos: But if the builders charging a set amount the developers charging, yes, you're right, we need to compare the market, is it? Yeah. Because where, where people get from my experience, and my knowledge of it is that they'll target people who have got existing properties and access to equity, because then they can cover the shortfall. So if the valuation comes in, not, it's not worth 700, let alone 750. Say it's worth 650.
Alex Minter: But it's alright.
Alex Minter: You've got 100k in equities that you can tap into. Yeah, exactly.
Victor Lagos: That's where they get that's what they do my parents, right. They had to use equity. And they that cover that extra cost that that commission that they built in. And, you know, for someone who wants to build a property portfolio, they need equity. They need that to buy the next one, right. i My wife and I we bought an established property and we extracted the equity and then we bought a second one in 12 months, she bought a brand new Property, especially from one that's overinflated. In this current market, especially exactly
Alex Minter: right, I think I think you hit the nail on the head there in this current market, right? Have people bought house and land packages?
Alex Minter: And let's call it over the last two years and made money they absolutely have. Right. But the market has done that. Right. And I think where, you know, again, this gray area, and where this awareness needs to be is there's going to be organizations out there. Because it's all over socials, right? Organizations, and let's call them spruikers, marketers, they'll be sitting there saying, you know, we've made a minimum of $200,000 for every client right over the last two years, but the market has done that, if you're going to keep doing that now, in the condition the market is in, it's highly unlikely the market is going to perform the way that just has over the last two years. Right. So again, you mentioned it before, I mean, if your parents still held that property, in the rank today, there's a high chance that they would have made some money if they were selling it today, right? So it's hard for, it's hard for anybody to sit there and say you never make money if you buy new or if you buy off the plan, right? Because there's certainly times where you can do that. And there's certainly times where you can make that money.
Victor Lagos: You're right, you're right, and depends on the market. You know, a couple years ago, I did help a client and they were they weren't even buying for investment, they bought a home in like, you know, Campbelltown area now they've sort of expanded out there. They bought it for 700,000 Brand new, they've got a guarantor loan, so they only paid well, they pretty much paid nothing, because if they finance the whole thing, because of the market we were in, it's now worth closer to a million. Alright, so they made money on the property. But it's where this this property spruikers or whatnot, they start saying, Oh, it's because of our research, we found a property that got you that 200 No, that's,
Alex Minter: that's what the market did, right. And again, like, the last two years, were almost draconian times, right? I mean, I don't think we're ever going to see a boom as hard as what it boomed over the last few years, in the in within the next, you know, this generation, right. But, yeah, and then, you know, and this is where, like, you know, people particularly buying from, let's call it 2023, onwards over the next five years, just have to be cautious on who they're working with who they're talking to. Because it's easy for people to say, I've made money over the last two years, because you could have bought a chicken coop out in the back of book, all right, and you would have made some cash, right. But yeah, now you have to be more strategic. Right. So and, you know, again, this is where the nervousness in the building space is, at the moment, you know, builders have to charge premium prices, land developers are still charging premium prices. So you can go and buy that there's no one stopping you from going to buy that type of product. But you now have to rely solely on on the organic growth of that location or suburb to make you equity, and then you don't know when that's going to come and how does that chop into your timeline timeline.
Victor Lagos: And then there's also the risk, of course, where, you know, as interest rates keep rising, and borrowing capacity squeezed, will they even be able to borrow the money to settle so someone bought off the plan, whether it's, you know, land and hasn't registered, or an Off Plan, apartment, or townhouse by the time it completes, you know, they want to be able to settle in if set
Alex Minter: settlement risk is massive, is massive, right?
Alex Minter: Developers have sold off the charts over the last two years.
Alex Minter: If the if the developers got out of the ground, they're settling in, you know, now or even two years time, what's the right environment going to be their settlement risk is massive.
Victor Lagos: What's gonna happen with all the developers that went too hard, too quick, and that some of them are going bust because they got the finance for for land, they settled. And then obviously, they had conditional approval at the time to build. But now because the cost of materials has gone up, and you know, inflation, interest rate rises, now, the lenders aren't going to fund the construction. Now they have to sell investors lose their money and put money down on these, like, what, what impact is that going to have to the greater market?
Alex Minter: So if you're a first time developer over the last two years, I think you're going to struggle right? Most most lenders will now only touch developers with decent balance sheets. track records, okay.
Alex Minter: Those guys are still getting off the ground as a developer I think if you appeal to the owner occupier market or downsize a market where people have cash, I think you're gonna be okay.
Alex Minter: Right. Now the developers in the other boat where they may not be able to get out the ground now or they've got a land bank their site for another 510 years, they'll sit out the rest of this cycle, okay? The that suburb is now not going to have whether it's 30 apartments so we're going to build 300 apartments that suburb is now not going to be delivered that many apartments right. And there's still massive demand for housing across the country. A shortage, it's a massive shortage, especially now they're letting migrants 100%. And this is where like, and I just want to be very clear here as well, like, I liked development, right? We need development as a country, we need builders, and we need people to buy that product.
Alex Minter: Because if that people didn't buy that product, then we'd be going back our economy wouldn't, it'd be going backwards. So we need that type of product. But the pressure or the demand that what's happening now is putting on the established market is huge. And this is where we're finding more value in established now as opposed to anything close to you.
Victor Lagos: Yeah. Can you touch on that a little bit more?
Victor Lagos: Now that you, you are a buyer's agent versus working for a developer? You focus? Let's
Alex Minter: make that clear.
Victor Lagos: Yeah, you focus solely on established property?
Victor Lagos: Absolutely. Yeah. And with the current market conditions that we're in, is still a good time to buy.
Alex Minter: Look, my my personal opinion here, I think, regardless of any economic condition, there's always opportunity. There's always times to buy, right? And this just comes down to understanding or your numbers, your strategy, your appetite, right? Because there's always opportunity, right? Regardless if the markets in a massive Upswing or downswing, there's this opportunity to be found. I guess if you're asking, you know, should people be holding off at the moment? Should they be waiting till the bottom of the market looks like it's reared its head? Look, it's up to the individual, right? You've got to do what is right for you and your family at the time. And I think you've got a long term play or a long term strategy, you know, we're talking 10 years plus, I mean, yeah, it's great to buy at the bottom of the market or close to the bottom, because, you know, then you're going to have an upswing, right.
Alex Minter: But my my opinion on that as well is, I mean, do you really want to try and find the bottom?
Alex Minter: Because how long is it going to take for that Upswing to come?
Alex Minter: Yeah, alright. Maybe you want to be looking in an upswing market?
Alex Minter: And, again, you know, we're seeing a lot of media at the moment around rate rises and their property market tanking and going down. And we know that it's certainly moved. We know that has certainly taken a bit of a dip, right. But there's areas out there that haven't shown any signs of that, right that it may remain extremely buoyant.
Victor Lagos: Plus, because of the because of the shortage, and because people can't borrow as much or buy for certain prices that they weren't able to before. It's put a lot of pressure on the rental market.
Victor Lagos: Yes, absolutely. So the rent has gone up, which has meant investors are getting higher yields, which is offsetting some of that higher interest costs.
Victor Lagos: Yes. Yeah, the property.
Alex Minter: And that's why we're not seeing a lot of blood on the street as well. I mean, as a buyer's agent, distressed housing is, you know, an ideal environment, right. I think, you know, stats just that we looked at just recently, from in the entire country, there's about 220,000 listings, and only 6000 are classified as distressed.
Alex Minter: Right. So which is not much compared to what has been previously.
Victor Lagos: So all this stuff on the media where they're talking about, you know, putting fear out there, there's actually not much distressed sales out
Alex Minter: there. There's no if you look at stats, you know, from the RBA, and we just held a webinar recently this week on all of this, you know, sharing data with the general public, right? Because stuff that the media is not going to take the media obviously hone in and focus on right at the moment.
Alex Minter: And so we're not we're certainly not, not dismissing that rate rises are going to impact people, right? Because they do, I think the people that it's going to impact are the people that probably shouldn't have bought a $1.5 million house in the first place a rates of 2%.
Alex Minter: And they are stretching their neck, right. So they're the people that I think it's going to impact. But if we look at what we have in our offsets, if we look at how much we've been paying off our principal, which has been more than the interest on our loans at the moment, we have buffers and we have a lot of safety nets at the moment.
Alex Minter: Right? So and our rates, even though even though we're in the fives now, we're still at 30 year lows for our rates. Right now, unemployment levels are at record lows. Okay, so if you've lost your job, it's very likely you're probably gonna get another one at the moment, right? Yeah. If you've lost, you've lost your job and you can't get another job. In the current environment. I mean, the property if you're holding an investment property, the rents are probably going up. And it's servicing itself. Right. So we're not seeing a lot of distressed sales. We're not seeing blood on the street here and is and you know, further to that, you know, that the housing epidemic that's across the country at the moment, there's, it's a perfect storm for landlords, right. So again, as a as a buyer's agent and doing what we do, like you always look for opportunity where people may be in distress and where you can pick up a deal, but there's not a lot of that.
Victor Lagos: What about when we have about how much is about$380 billion worth of loans coming off a fixed rate See?
Alex Minter: Yeah, I think that'll create a bit of a ripple effect. I think the markets that will be impacted there at the Sydney and Melbourne markets and again, for the people who probably shouldn't have stretched their neck out and spent, you know, millions on these assets, right? Because you're coming off the 2% interest rate with a million dollars worth of mortgage and you're now paying five. You do the math on what that is per month.
Victor Lagos: Yeah, I know, right. This is what I what I tell people who ask or clients that, you know, to reach people out there that are in this position where they were paying 2% or less for the last couple of years, and it's coming off of that, and they're about to go to a maybe a 5% interest rate, right? What they can do is actually go online, go to a p&i calculator, principal and interest calculator, work out in advance, what's the repayments going to be? So to plug in, say, 5%, you got 28 years left to put 28 years. And that will tell you your weekly payment or your monthly What are you paying now, it's probably a lot less than that. If you're on fixed, you can actually pay 10 grand extra per year without any penalty.
Victor Lagos: But when the rates are so low fixed, you can even pay more than 10 grand the bank is not going to penalize you for that.
Victor Lagos: And so therefore, stop paying that now pay that extra payment.
Victor Lagos: Can you afford it? Because you're gonna have to anyway, right. And if you can't, then stop adjusting you your household expenditures, right.
Victor Lagos: Yeah, absolutely. People are already doing that. Right. Yeah, but you. But if, if you wait until the loan changes, it's going to be a big shock. Because you didn't know what to expect the way to the bank send you a letter. And that letter is two months in advance, and then possibly the two more rate rises between that point, then then it becomes very reactive. That's when there's distressed sales, because you only really lose money on good property if you sell too soon, because you can't afford to hold it right. So yes, some people got cash buffers, and that will carry them I think for a period of time. But if they can start getting used to because that's the norm, right, the normal be probably around that 5% for the performing economy, right. Sub 2% rates were for global pandemic, right.
Victor Lagos: Like, that's not how it's supposed to be for performing economy. Would you agree?
Alex Minter: Absolutely. Yeah.
Alex Minter: And when when the rates were 2%, a lot of the communication from us was, you know, you should be considering p&i. I mean, I don't think we're gonna get any rate lower than this at the moment.
Alex Minter: So smash your debt, right? So the people who have done that they've put themselves in a position now to either refinance and set them up for a bit of a downturn when it comes right.
Alex Minter: So, but, but yeah, I think if we're trying to work out when the distressed sales will come, it will be when our buffers dry up. And it will be when we come off these rate rises. And this is what a lot of the bank economists are saying as well, that there's nervousness around that. Right. And again, just because that happens, and just because the high value markets, you know, like the Sydney and Melbourne may be impacted more than others. There's other markets that will remain completely fine and buoyant.
Alex Minter: Right? Because if you think about if you, you know, if you're buying property between let's call it 500 and a million, right, that's a very affordable market. It has a lot of interest from owner occupiers. And it has a lot of interest from investors. Okay, because of the yields. And with these rate rises, we're seeing, I'm sure you're seeing the same we're seeing people become more condensed into this market of between 500 and a million because they can't afford $1.2 million anymore. Yeah. Right. So it's condensing this this price point. Yeah. And there's a lot of people that can still buy this heaps, right. Contrary to, to the media, there are so many people, we're seeing it that have a lot of equity, and are ready to buy. But they're condensed into this price point market,
Victor Lagos: which is to be honest, if you consider the cost to, to build if, if they're sitting on land, and they were to, you know, knock that house down and build a brand new house. That intrinsic value itself is certainly so far you can go down or even if the market drops, it's not going to say, Oh, now this house is worth 300 grand when it costs 500 grand to build a new house anyway. Right? So that price point between 500 and a million.
Victor Lagos: It is the sweet spot. Right? And there's always going to be demand. That's why I think it is an opportunity for investors out there that can borrow at that, that can weather this period of time where we're interest rates are going upward. Because let's face it, the masses will follow what the media put out there.
Victor Lagos: And if the media is saying, you know, it's a scary time to buy and people say, yeah, people don't buy, but then the ones that opportunistic say, Well, I can afford it. I can put cash aside to cover the interest rate rises. I know what the in case the repayments do jump up by say 2%. I can cover that. They're buying property that ticks all the fundamental boxes. As soon as the media changes the narrative and they say, oh, RBA is gonna drop rates. What happens? demand increases? That to go up? Yeah,
Alex Minter: I think I think where, where we can anticipate another spike in the market or a change in the market is when we see that transparency and interest rates, right? Because the public want transparency. At the moment, it's rolling the dice, right? It's like, you know, the grilling, Mr. Low, low, you know, the RBA when a rates gonna stop, and he I don't even think he knows, right. And there's no transparency there.
Alex Minter: So I think once we have maybe 234 months of consecutive months, where there's no rate rises, I think people will pull the trigger again, because they know what they're working with.
Alex Minter: Right?
Victor Lagos: It's a good point.
Victor Lagos: They're just, you're right, they just want that certainty. They want us stability, and they want to know that, you know, they don't need to plan for, you know,
Alex Minter: yep. And I don't think they're gonna go out and spend $2 million on a property anymore. That's right. And this is going to condense that market that between 500 and a million.
Victor Lagos: And that just means that people that own property, at that level 2,000,001 and a half million, if they want to sell, they can't sell at those prices anymore, because the majority people can't borrow enough to get to that.
Alex Minter: Yeah, I mean, that that market has certainly dropped right off, right?
Alex Minter: Because the amount of buyers, they're now at $2 million.
Alex Minter: Certainly dropped compared to what it was two years ago at rates a 2%. Yeah, okay. So it's not saying they will, they won't get what they want, or they won't make money. And it's just not that big of a market. The market is condensed. Yeah, it will be the downsizes
Victor Lagos: have got access to cash. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of cash.
Alex Minter: And this is where again, you know, just going back to our conversation around development and stuff. I think the developers and the builders who target those markets have downsized and people with cash owner occupiers, they're fine.
Alex Minter: Right. So they'll do well.
Victor Lagos: Yep. Okay, so what do you think is gonna happen to prices in the next 12 months?
Alex Minter: That's a million dollar question. I mean, it's so it's all speculation at the moment, but I think, you know, from our conversation, just then around this condensed price point, you know, again, $502 million, I think it will remain extremely buoyant, right, because people are being pushed into that. You can still afford it as an owner occupier, and you can still afford it as an investor. Right. And again, I think once there's transparency in interest rates, that's when people will pull the trigger.
Alex Minter: They'll go and buy because they know what they're working with.
Alex Minter: And then history shows us when that transparency, is there, the market trends in an upward direction. Okay. Yeah. So again, that's speculation. Right? So but that's my, my personal opinion.
Victor Lagos: Okay. So I've got a question around for people that have never used a buyer's agent before. What can you tell them other benefits of using a buyer's agent compared to doing the research, education and buying a property themselves?
Alex Minter: So there's many in the buyer's agency space in Australia is still a very infant industry, right compared to, you know, the likes of the US and other parts of the world. If you're thinking about engaging a buyer's agent, understand there are so many different buyer's agents with different strategies, right? different understandings of different markets. It's about finding one that works for you, and is in line with what you're trying to do. Because an example of that is there's buyer's agents who really specialize in owner occupiers, there's buyer's agents who really only specialize in with investors, there's buyer's agents who specialize in commercial, right, so depending on, you know, what you're looking for, and you may not even know what you're looking for at the moment, okay.
Alex Minter: But as an investor, let's just talk as an investor, what I would encourage is, you know, one work with a buyer's agent who's reputable integral as well, right, has integrity. And, and understands numbers, right?
Alex Minter: Because a foreign investor, at the end of the day, it's about understanding your numbers first, right? And then having somebody who understands what your numbers are, and can marry up opportunities, strategies that meet what the numbers are looking for. So when you
Victor Lagos: say numbers, are you talking about? price point, rental return cash flow? Yeah, it's,
Alex Minter: it's about working out all of that, right. You know, so many investors, and you know, from my experience with particularly first time investors, you'll have a conversation with them, and they've got no idea where they're trying to get to know ID, you know, a question, you know, well, what sort of income are we trying to generate here?
Victor Lagos: I have no idea. So you're setting a goal for them and your and you work out what that goal is? Yeah. And the reason for that goal as well, right? Because then they might say I want $10 million with property say well, why? And why do you think 10 Aliens the number so you break it down.
Alex Minter: You can any reverse engineer it you work backwards?
Alex Minter: Yeah. Because you can break it down to understanding because most investors, they'll say I want growth, well how much growth you want, you want 10 grand a year in growth 50 grand a year and growth, like what?
Alex Minter: What sort of growth is it? And they don't know that. So it's about working that out with them. And again, you know, nobody can guarantee you go and buy in that location over there.
Alex Minter: And it's going to give you 20, grand, gross 50k growth, whatever it is. But when you start to understand those numbers with them, it starts to help you go, Okay, well, based on what this investor is looking for, from a numbers point of view, there's different strategies that, you know, may suit what they're looking, for.
Alex Minter: Example, could be subdividing blocks adding value that way, right? It could just be a normal buying hold, it could be looking for a high yielding asset.
Alex Minter: Right. So it's about understanding all that first, and then finding those. So those
Victor Lagos: are the different strategies that you would go for, depending on that investors. Risk Appetite.
Alex Minter: Yeah.
Victor Lagos: How much access to capital do they have? Yeah. How much can they borrow? What's your experience? Like? So you kind of tailor it to them?
Alex Minter: Yeah. And then ultimately, you know, finding an opportunity that they purchase for less than what it's worth.
Victor Lagos: But justify your fear as well, then? Yeah, well, that's
Alex Minter: exactly the charge.
Alex Minter: It's not a free service. 100%.
Alex Minter: So, yeah, there's many different ways. Yeah, look at it. Yeah,
Victor Lagos: the buyer's agent that I used to had on on a previous episode, Joe Tucker, he was able to get the property below market value. And at the time, because they weren't rate rises, yet. It was only a couple of them. The that gap was larger. And I recently did a desktop valuation just to see where it landed. And it's only now with 10 grand more than what I bought it for. And at first, I was like, damn it, guys. Oh, my equity. Yeah, but wait a minute.
Victor Lagos: It's a downward market. Yeah.
Victor Lagos: And it's still worth more than what a waterfall I did. Pretty good. Right?
Alex Minter: Yeah. As a mortgage broker, yeah. You probably understand lenders viewer is very conservative. Right? Yeah.
Alex Minter: Go and get another Val. And it might come in 50k. More. So
Victor Lagos: yeah. That's what I always go across a few. Yeah, I wasn't doing that for a specific purpose of of lending.
Victor Lagos: I just wanted to get a feel for what it was at what was that now? So
Alex Minter: with that? I mean, I'm assuming you weren't disheartened by only making 10k?
Alex Minter: Well, yeah.
Victor Lagos: At first I was an admin and when I sort of, you know, thought about it more.
Victor Lagos: It's positive. hasn't gone backwards. Yeah, exactly. Even we'd like eight rate rises. And you holding it over the long term? Exactly. Yeah. It's a buy and hold. Right. Yeah. Okay.
Victor Lagos: Cool. And the other question, I would say is what how does someone differentiate? Say they are talking to different buyer's agents? What should be the questions they would ask to gather? If they are the right agent to work with?
Alex Minter: Yeah. I mean, hidden with how many properties do they have? Oh, that person?
Alex Minter: Well, I think, you know, it's because, you know, you can question you can we can sit there and advise somebody or guide somebody, but if you haven't done yourself, right, it's, you know, you know, without getting too deep, you know, I have a portfolio, I've got interests SMSFs, you know, me, so I've got different structures as well. So I've understood that. But they share from personal Yeah, exactly.
Alex Minter: Right. So, um, but again, you know, it's not my role to discuss if it should be bought in a trust, or if it should be bought in an SMSF. I mean, typically, people come to us already, with that, you know, strategy in place. And our role is to source the property. Yeah.
Alex Minter: And that's
Victor Lagos: why it's always good to have a trusted network of professionals that you work with. Absolutely. And I have that you're obviously part of that network. So that for what advice you need, whether it's around the property, or the other tax effective structure, or the loan structure, which is the advice that I give, or the insurance is to protect that wealth, which will be a financial planner, lawyer to review the contracts, it's like, all that you gotta have a good team around you. Right? Network.
Victor Lagos: Exactly. Awesome. Okay, so, this one, I don't know if you know, if you're willing to share, but what would be some of the best locations to invest in right now?
Alex Minter: Yeah, that's, look, it's a hard one, right? I mean, it's what everybody asks and what everybody wants to know.
Alex Minter: But again, it comes down to, you know, what are your numbers?
Alex Minter: What are you trying to achieve here? Right, you know, you can again, go back over the last few years, and I don't think there was one place in the country that didn't produce good, you know, or growth, some some form of growth, right. I'm gonna show there was, but, you know, I mean, like, you were talking major capitals and surrounds you know, it comes down to fundamentals as well, you know, if you look at start to look at interstate migration rates, where are people moving out of where people moving to, you know, what's the infrastructure going to these locations and suburbs, you know, what's the demographics you know, you can start to look at all those metrics and start to drill down and go okay, well, I you know, based on what I can spend, I think, you know, southeast Queensland's right right for me, or you know, Maybe I should be exploring Perth or Adelaide. So there's no, again, my personal opinion, I don't think there's any one place that is the best or is going to far outperform the rest, right? Because they all have their pros and cons.
Alex Minter: But again, it comes down to understanding what is it that you're trying to achieve from a numbers point of view? Right.
Alex Minter: And, you know, you look at, you know, Joe and Jeff's group, you know, I'm part of that on, I think it's a fantastic group to be a part of, right. I think they've done a very good job of helping protect the general public as well. Right. So hats off to those guys. In a year, look at the posts, they get on a daily, you know, I've got 500,000, I've got X amount, where should I buy? Right? And you see the comments, and it's, what's your strategy? What are you trying to do here? Right, yeah. 90% the time investors don't know, they're like, I want growth. I want a year on growth in yield, right. So but because if you understand what it is that you need from, you know, if you need X amount of yield, if you need, you know, certain percentage, yeah, you can start to break it down to go, Okay, well, these areas are producing that percentage, right, so maybe we should shortlist them. Right?
Alex Minter: If we need X amount of growth, these areas have shown signs that they're producing X amount of growth, right, and you can start to shortlist. Yeah. So everyone is different.
Victor Lagos: Yeah, it depends on where they're up to on their journey, right. Because you know, the podcasts, which is debt to financial freedom, you could be on the bottom of that spectrum, a lot of debt, no property, no other income except your employment. Or you could be on the further end, where you've got a few properties, got some passive income, you're closer to financial freedom. So that strategy is really important.
Victor Lagos: Absolutely. Yeah. And also, how old are you? How much more working? Life Do you have?
Victor Lagos: Right? To borrow money? Yeah, right to? Do you need equity in the short term? Or the long term? Can you hold it for another 20 years? Or do you need to sell it in like five? To retire? Right? So let's say the value
Alex Minter: away away, you know, this is very general, right? I mean, a way that people can start to work that out is you've got to work at a timeframe. The way to work out the timeframe is think about how old you are today. And what's the age you want to be where you'd want to replace your income, or what people know is retire, right? So if you can work out how long you have left in the workforce, okay, so that gives that gives you your first piece of the puzzle, then you got to start to break it down to go, Okay, well, if I'm 6065, whatever it is, for the individual, what sort of income do they need to be producing?
Alex Minter: What do they want to live on?
Alex Minter: Then you got to work out well, how long do I need to live on that income for? And this is where nobody knows when it when they're going to kick the
Victor Lagos: bucket, right?
Victor Lagos: Assuming they're healthy, and they
Alex Minter: were all statistically 85. Right? Is you so then, you know, if you go okay, well, I want to have 100 grand a year. And if I'm retiring at 65, and I'm kicking off at 85. I need it's 20 years, I need 2 million bucks. Right?
Alex Minter: So that shows you somewhere to start, right? And then you work backwards. Right? Okay, well, what's my what's my debt at the moment? What's my assets at the moment? What's contributing to this? Right? So then you can break it down to go okay, well, over the next, let's call it 20 years in the workforce, I may need X amount of growth. Yeah.
Alex Minter: Okay.
Victor Lagos: That makes sense.
Victor Lagos: So, the quick, my last question for you is, how would you define financial freedom?
Alex Minter: For me personally, yep. It's doing what you want, when you want on your own to? I mean, that's what it comes down to. I mean, you ask any investor, why do you want to do this? You know, I want to do what I want to do when I want to do it. I want to work for them in the rest of my life. Yeah.
Alex Minter: Right. You want
Victor Lagos: to work? Because you want to work? Yeah. Because you have to work right? Yeah.
Victor Lagos: That's why I want to get this idea of like waiting to retirement before you financially, we want to get that out of people's psyches. Because you don't have to wait until you're 65 Before you can start living. You can replace your income much sooner than that.
Victor Lagos: It's about having that growth mindset. It's about looking for opportunities that are going to create assets that pay you an income. And that income I said to do earlier, it's about having a money machine that gives you enough income to let you do what you do. Without working doesn't mean you won't work. Yeah, just means you don't have to
Alex Minter: 100% I did, I did some numbers the other day for my personal scenario. And I've worked out if I you know, had all the debt gone from my investment assets, maybe I could I could live comfortably. You know, I'm not driving Ferraris, but I could live comfortably.
Alex Minter: You know, so it's a good feeling. You know, so
Victor Lagos: So you do so realistically, you're kind of financially free now. To an extent
Alex Minter: to an extent. Yeah.
Alex Minter: If Yeah, I think my partner would be cracking the whip for me to get out there.
Victor Lagos: Would you would you say though, that when you approach your business, you don't need the money to live anymore? You can do it because you care?
Alex Minter: Well, I don't want no transparency I need I need to produce an income to pay my debt down. Right So I'm still going to do that. Right. You know, I still got mortgages, and I've got families to feed and
Victor Lagos: you know, we want to own those properties. Yeah.
Victor Lagos: Then you need income to pay off the debt. Yeah. Otherwise you have to sell them to pay it off and be left with one or two or whatever. Yeah,
Alex Minter: exactly. Right. And so, you know, I think I'll have the option within the next 15 years. So, yeah, awesome, which is good for me. No, I
Victor Lagos: love it. Okay.
Victor Lagos: Where can people find you?
Alex Minter: So look, I think I fly under the radar a bit.
Alex Minter: Right. So, look, I, you know, when I started as do property network, the goal was to be within the space or, you know, service businesses within financial services. Right. So that's typically where we roll.
Alex Minter: And it's, which is how we met.
Alex Minter: Right. So, I mean, we obviously have a website we have, you know, social media, which is probably not, you know, lacks a bit so
Victor Lagos: that you have some videos on YouTube.
Alex Minter: Yeah, look, we've got all that right. But, you know, go to our website,
Victor Lagos: Astutepropertynetwork.com That's correct. Yes. Okay. So customers can go to you directly. They don't have to go through No, no.
Alex Minter: Absolutely not at all. Okay, so reach out to us directly. You're happy to have a chat and help where we can
Victor Lagos: awesome look, I'm really grateful for you to take your time out today. Come on the show. Share some of your insights, your experience and you know, really help the audience who are either already investors or they're thinking about it. So thanks again. Yeah, looking forward to working with you in the future.
Alex Minter: Yeah. Awesome.
Alex Minter: Thanks. Big Cheers.
Victor Lagos: Thank you, everyone. If you enjoyed that, please follow us on our socials and listen out for the next episode.