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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun and

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<v Speaker 1>practical ways. Hey, everybody. Happy Thursday.

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<v Speaker 2>Happy Thursday.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure. Why not?

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<v Speaker 2>We're so excited. We can hardly stand it.

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<v Speaker 1>Make this day the best Thursday ever.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>And by the way, it could be the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the day.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think Thursday doesn't get very good attention. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's Monday. Everybody hates Mondays.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Wednesday's hump day, you're like, hey, we're over the hump now.

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<v Speaker 2>We're halfway to the good part of the week.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Fridays are- Fridays are, thank God, it's Friday. Weekends

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<v Speaker 1>are great.

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<v Speaker 2>Weekends are amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>So really, Tuesday and Thursday are the redheaded stepchilds of

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<v Speaker 1>the week.

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<v Speaker 2>We get forgotten. So hey, it's time for us to

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<v Speaker 2>give honor to whom honor is due. Thursday's been standing

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<v Speaker 2>there for us all this time. If it weren't for Thursday,

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<v Speaker 2>we wouldn't have anything to do between Wednesday and Friday.

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<v Speaker 1>Aw, little buddy Thursdays. All right. All right. Well, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>today we are, before we jump into what is titled

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<v Speaker 1>as the hardest prayer.

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<v Speaker 2>The hardest prayer.

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<v Speaker 1>How about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a segment, and this is Stump the Pastor.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, cool.

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<v Speaker 1>And Stump the Pastor is actually something that we actually

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<v Speaker 1>collect questions. We enjoy them, and we encourage you to

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<v Speaker 1>email us right now. So go to info, actually send

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<v Speaker 1>an email to info at thebibleguys.com. Yeah. It'll get to us.

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<v Speaker 1>Or just comment on YouTube. And we'll try to grab

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<v Speaker 1>your question right there.

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<v Speaker 2>I love questions like this. I love like just open

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<v Speaker 2>forum Q & A kind of stuff. Do you enjoy that?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes. Well, it shows that people are thinking. Yeah. And

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<v Speaker 1>it shows that people care. And they're like, hey, I

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<v Speaker 1>have a question about the Bible and I really want

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<v Speaker 1>to know this answer.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Several times, a couple times a year, usually I'll

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<v Speaker 2>meet with our high schoolers and just take an hour

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<v Speaker 2>or two and say, hey, it's just any question you

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<v Speaker 2>want to ask. And it's amazing how they'll stay sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>for hours and hours just asking questions. So I'll tell them,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll stay as long as your parents will let you stay.

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<v Speaker 2>And so then they start, then all of a sudden

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<v Speaker 2>mom and dad are all standing around. We got the

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<v Speaker 2>crowd of people standing around just asking Bible questions. Done

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<v Speaker 2>it a few times with our young adults. We got

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<v Speaker 2>a hundred and something young adults in our church and

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<v Speaker 2>we do the same thing there. We got a fly

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<v Speaker 2>flying around us. And so do the same thing with

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<v Speaker 2>our interns and residents will do it. I just, I

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<v Speaker 2>love it when people are using their minds. They've come

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<v Speaker 2>across the thing. They're not sure what the answer is.

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<v Speaker 2>And instead of just giving up, Like I think a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people have grown up with a religious view

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<v Speaker 2>or belief of don't ask questions. It offends God.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. Instead, I love it. The book of Jeremiah says,

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<v Speaker 2>come now, let's reason together, says the Lord. God wants

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<v Speaker 2>us to use our minds. God invented your mind.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. He did. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>And he knows that you have this ability to have

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<v Speaker 2>big questions and he's not offended when we have questions.

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<v Speaker 2>So I love it. I love this segment. And so

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<v Speaker 2>what's our question today?

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<v Speaker 1>By the way, I recently learned. that Chad is more

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<v Speaker 1>reluctant to let me do a public Q & A

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<v Speaker 1>than you.

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<v Speaker 2>Our executive pastor?

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<v Speaker 1>Our executive pastor.

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<v Speaker 2>Our executive pastor is very protective.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know why?

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<v Speaker 2>Because he's— Because you go rogue?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, he's not afraid of my theology of the answer.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>He's afraid of my diplomacy. Oh. Or lack of it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Right? So he's like— and I'm not even sure afraid is

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<v Speaker 1>the word.

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<v Speaker 2>He's just a little bit more cautious. Cautious.

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<v Speaker 1>More cautious.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>He's like, we don't really know if Chris is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be as diplomatic as Jeff. Oh, you would do fine.

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<v Speaker 2>You would do fine.

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<v Speaker 1>Because we all know that you're diplomatic. Well, it's definitely

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<v Speaker 1>clear that you're way more diplomatic than me.

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<v Speaker 2>At times. At times.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. Publicly.

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<v Speaker 2>I can also be a bigger jerk than you.

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<v Speaker 1>At times.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my lows are lower and my

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<v Speaker 2>highs are higher.

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<v Speaker 1>What? My lows are low and my eyes are harder. Yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>That's pretty good.

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<v Speaker 2>All right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So this question is written by Bill T.

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<v Speaker 2>Bill. Bill T.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes. Hey, Bill. Yes. Not Bill T, but Bill T.

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<v Speaker 2>Bill T.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. So he writes this. Is there a distinction in

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<v Speaker 1>the Bible between justifiable and unjustifiable anger? Can Christians express

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<v Speaker 1>anger in a righteous way, as Jesus did in the temple,

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<v Speaker 1>or should all anger be avoided entirely?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm afraid to answer this question. I want Bill

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<v Speaker 2>to be mad at me.

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<v Speaker 1>I see what you did there. So, yeah, I mean, like,

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<v Speaker 1>so I remember a sermon, you know, some sermons you

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<v Speaker 1>remember forever, right? I don't know if you do. I do.

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<v Speaker 1>But I remember a sermon that Bill Hybels gave at

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<v Speaker 1>a leadership summit back in like 2006. And so we

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<v Speaker 1>were actually at the leadership summit and he actually talked

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<v Speaker 1>about righteous indignation. And he talked about how Jesus had

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<v Speaker 1>righteous indignation and how he flipped over the money changers

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<v Speaker 1>tables at the temple. So, and by the way, because-

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<v Speaker 1>He made a whip. Yeah, because that's correct.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, he did.

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<v Speaker 1>Because that's been mentioned twice, we might as well at

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<v Speaker 1>least explain that. Sure. So Jesus actually in the Bible

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<v Speaker 1>got angry and he got angry at the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>He actually said, you have made my house into a

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<v Speaker 1>den of thieves. Right. And he was referring to people

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<v Speaker 1>who were abusing what? It was like selling sacrifices and

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<v Speaker 1>making a profit, an unreasonable profit.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, yeah. It was exorbitant. They had kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>monopoly on the... If you were traveling hundreds and hundreds

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<v Speaker 2>of miles to the temple, normally you wouldn't bring your sacrifice.

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<v Speaker 2>You would take that perfect sacrificial animal. You would sell it.

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<v Speaker 2>Bring the money to Jerusalem and buy another animal that

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<v Speaker 2>you could do rather than trying to bring it the

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<v Speaker 2>whole way.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, what was happening was the money changers and then

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<v Speaker 2>the people running businesses at the temple, they were, you know, five, six, 10,

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<v Speaker 2>20 times more expensive than what you could have gotten

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<v Speaker 2>in your village for the same animal. And it's because

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<v Speaker 2>they had a monopoly on it. They were abusing people

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<v Speaker 2>just to make money. Right. And it really made Jesus mad.

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<v Speaker 2>So he makes a whip, he flips over the tables

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<v Speaker 2>and sets all the animals free and spills all their

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<v Speaker 2>money everywhere and really chews them out. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, Jesus with a whip is not a

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<v Speaker 1>common painting. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Usually it's like a sad Jesus with long hair and

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<v Speaker 2>blue eyes looking up into the stars.

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<v Speaker 1>Who's Caucasian.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, the stars. And he's holding a lamb and

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<v Speaker 2>hugging a child.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, right, right.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't usually think of Jesus with his sleeves rolled up,

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<v Speaker 2>whipping people, flipping tables.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and not only that, but like he was a

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<v Speaker 1>strong man.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah. He was a carpenter. Right, that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>And so he was a specimen. I mean, we know

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<v Speaker 1>that just from the physical, you know, brutality of even,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what he endured and he endured it. Right. So. So, yeah. So,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this the picture would be a strong, muscular man. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>Angry with a whip flipping over tables. And so I

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<v Speaker 1>almost wonder, because, again, everything to me is Hollywood, not

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<v Speaker 1>for the sake of Hollywood, by the way, for the

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<v Speaker 1>sake of reality.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. So Hollywood, meaning when I say Hollywood, I mean like.

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<v Speaker 1>I can picture the whole entire scene right now. That's

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<v Speaker 1>what I mean. Right. But I don't mean Hollywood fake

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<v Speaker 1>or Hollywood dramatization. I don't mean any of those terms

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<v Speaker 1>when I say Hollywood. What I mean is. You can

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<v Speaker 1>see a movie of this event. I can see this

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<v Speaker 1>being played out. And so oftentimes when I Hollywoodize a narrative,

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<v Speaker 1>I will try to suppose or wonder and think to myself, like,

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<v Speaker 1>did somebody try to oppose him? Like it doesn't say so, right?

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<v Speaker 2>No, not at all.

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<v Speaker 1>It does not say that somebody came up to him

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<v Speaker 1>and he pushed them out of the way or three

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<v Speaker 1>men were thinking about charging him and then he held

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<v Speaker 1>up the whip and looked at them and they knew

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<v Speaker 1>he was serious and so they backed off, right? But

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure those things happen, right? Because guess what? You

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<v Speaker 1>don't come into a place and destroy people's profitability and

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<v Speaker 1>their livelihood without opposition. Right. You just don't, right? I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure they caught him by surprise. And I'm sure that

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<v Speaker 1>everybody knew who Jesus was. Right. I mean, they certainly

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<v Speaker 1>knew who he was. So there might have been a

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<v Speaker 1>fear of like, I don't know what to do right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Just get out of here.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I'm a nobody. I'm a guy who's

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<v Speaker 1>making a profit off animal sacrifices. And here's that. And

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<v Speaker 1>I know who that is. That's Jesus. And so I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what to do right now. But those are

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of things when I say a Hollywood, I

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<v Speaker 1>think to myself, like, how did that play out?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Because certainly people had to have a reaction. To Jesus. Anyway. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, in Ephesians 4, 26. Is it 26? Ephesians 4 something.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me find it. Ephesians 4. Ephesians 4.

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<v Speaker 1>I know Ephesians 4, 32. I know Ephesians 4, 20. Oh, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>There you go. 4, 26. And don't let sin. And

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<v Speaker 2>don't sin by letting anger control you. Right. Don't let

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<v Speaker 2>the sun go down while you're still angry. For anger

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<v Speaker 2>gives a foothold to the devil. Another translation says, be

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<v Speaker 2>angry and sin not. And then don't let the sun

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<v Speaker 2>go down on your anger. And your anger does not sin.

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<v Speaker 1>So anger isn't the sin. Right, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Anger is just an emotion. Where it becomes sinful is

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<v Speaker 2>when it's self-centered. I'm angry at you because you offended me.

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<v Speaker 2>If you just let that fester, that's why he says,

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<v Speaker 2>don't let the sun go down on your anger. You

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<v Speaker 2>let that fester, it's going to turn into bitterness. This

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<v Speaker 2>bitterness gives a foothold to the devil. So you talked

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<v Speaker 2>about righteous indignation. Man, if somebody was coming through the

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<v Speaker 2>door to hurt my wife and my daughter in the

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<v Speaker 2>middle of the night.

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<v Speaker 1>That's correct.

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<v Speaker 2>Believe me, they're going to get the full force of Jeff.

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>And the anger then is driven by the threat to

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<v Speaker 2>what I love so dearly. So first of all, I

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<v Speaker 2>have to really make sure I love the right things.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not just me. It's not just my happiness and

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<v Speaker 2>my comfort. But I love my wife. I love my daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>I love my freedom. I love, right? There's a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of those things. And so because of that major threats

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<v Speaker 2>to those things, it's not a sinful thing to have

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<v Speaker 2>that anger feeling, that rush come into you saying, I

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<v Speaker 2>need to defend this. The Bible talks multiple times that

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<v Speaker 2>it's the responsibility of the strong to protect the weak.

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<v Speaker 2>to speak up for those who don't have a voice,

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<v Speaker 2>to protect those who can't protect themselves, right? So Jesus

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<v Speaker 2>talks about at one point, you know, the kingdom he's

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<v Speaker 2>putting violent men will have to seize it, right? And

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<v Speaker 2>he's not talking about like violence, like you and I

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<v Speaker 2>think of blood and gore, but by men that just

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<v Speaker 2>stand up in their strength and grab a hold of

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<v Speaker 2>this thing. So I'm always cautious when people start to ask,

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<v Speaker 2>is it sometimes okay for me to be angry? Because

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<v Speaker 2>on occasion, I'm not saying Bill T is this guy,

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<v Speaker 2>but on occasion, it's people who have trouble with their

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<v Speaker 2>anger and they're trying to justify it and win an

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<v Speaker 2>argument with their spouse later.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>Or if they're an angry person in general, they may

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<v Speaker 1>be generally concerned about their demeanor.

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<v Speaker 2>If you are having trustworthy people, spouses, children, friends saying, boy,

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<v Speaker 2>you seem like you're pretty angry lately. Then maybe you're

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<v Speaker 2>starting to cross the line between being angry and sinning not.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>You need to get back to that don't sin. So

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<v Speaker 2>let your anger drive you to do something good. So

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<v Speaker 2>right now, for instance, one of the ministries you're really

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<v Speaker 2>focusing a lot on lately has been child trafficking.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. Right?

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<v Speaker 2>So how does that make you feel? You drive through

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<v Speaker 2>those neighborhoods and you know what's happening. In Dominican Republic,

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<v Speaker 2>their parents are selling their own children.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll actually make a statement. When I went on a

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<v Speaker 1>tour and I actually saw, I saw it with my eyes.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw it. I saw the child. I saw what

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<v Speaker 1>was happening and the men protecting it. And I saw

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<v Speaker 1>a person go up and inquire about it. I have

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<v Speaker 1>never felt more anger in my entire life, in my

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<v Speaker 1>whole life. And I've gotten angry about a lot of things,

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<v Speaker 1>but I've never felt more anger than that.

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<v Speaker 2>So God is not calling you to be Batman, become

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<v Speaker 2>some vigilante, come swooping in, kick the doors down necessarily.

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<v Speaker 2>But that anger has driven you to start helping build

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<v Speaker 2>a system to rescue those kids, raise the money through

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<v Speaker 2>Transform One and actively begin working towards a good solution.

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<v Speaker 2>And that may not be repaying evil with evil, right?

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<v Speaker 2>It's repaying evil with good. And so how do you

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<v Speaker 2>go solve that?

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<v Speaker 1>Which by the way, since you already mentioned it, I

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't going to say it, but by the time this

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<v Speaker 1>goes on the air, we will be two weeks out

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<v Speaker 1>from our 5k. And if you want to make a small.

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<v Speaker 2>Donation, Or a big donation.

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<v Speaker 1>Or a big donation.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't want to limit your donation. If you'd like

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<v Speaker 2>to make a donation.

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<v Speaker 1>I would love it. If somebody who normally isn't a

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<v Speaker 1>part of Heritage, because, you know, a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>who listen to this are part of our community anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're like, I've already heard about this. Yes. But

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<v Speaker 1>there has to be thousands.

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<v Speaker 2>Thousands of people who don't know what we're talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>Who don't know what we're talking about. Would you do

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<v Speaker 1>me a favor? Go to HeritageChurch.com slash 5K. Everything's on there.

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<v Speaker 1>So if to donate or watch the video, find out

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<v Speaker 1>more about it, heritagechurch.com slash 5k, make a donation. That'd

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<v Speaker 1>be awesome.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So if you're asking the question because you've had

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<v Speaker 2>people tell you, you seem really angry lately, then let

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<v Speaker 2>that be God's way of saying, hey, you're starting to

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<v Speaker 2>cross a line.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't use Bible verses to justify your anger. But if

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<v Speaker 2>you're feeling a holy anger or a righteous indignation towards

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<v Speaker 2>some kind of wrong thing in society, and you're wondering,

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<v Speaker 2>am I sinning? Well, no, you're not sinning necessarily as

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<v Speaker 2>long as you direct that in a way that causes

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<v Speaker 2>you to then address this issue in a healthy, godly way, right?

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<v Speaker 2>So people are not your enemy. Satan is our enemy.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>And so we don't fight people. We fight the actions

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<v Speaker 2>of Satan in society. And that's what we do.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah. That's great.

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<v Speaker 2>That's great. Hey, thanks, Bill. Good question, Bill.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's great. All of those answers are people... People

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<v Speaker 1>wonder about those. So that's why they're called Stump the Pastors.

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<v Speaker 1>And sometimes Stump the Pastors are, I don't know. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>Because depending on the question, but this is something I've

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<v Speaker 1>heard so many times. So thanks, Bill, for asking.

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<v Speaker 2>I've thought several times it would be fun to do

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<v Speaker 2>a Stump the Pastor week.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>If we could get enough people to write in questions.

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<v Speaker 2>If we could get like 100 questions, we could do

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<v Speaker 2>three or four a day.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's announce it right now. After the Dangerous Prayers series,

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<v Speaker 1>let's do a five-day stint where we do a Stump

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<v Speaker 1>the Pastor. Make the whole episode. I was going to

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<v Speaker 1>say the one question may not carry us the whole episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but if we get 100 questions, we could just

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<v Speaker 2>filter through them and find the ones that would fill

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<v Speaker 2>up the 25 minutes every day. I think it'd be fun.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it'd be fun. Okay, so there it is. There's

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<v Speaker 1>your assignment, people. If you want to see this series

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<v Speaker 1>come into fruition, then comment on YouTube right now. Or

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<v Speaker 1>comment online or email us at info at thebibleguys.com. And

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<v Speaker 1>we would love to get your Stump the Pastor questions.

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<v Speaker 2>Cool. Wow.

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<v Speaker 1>That's neat.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there you go.

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<v Speaker 1>All right.

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<v Speaker 2>Now we have permission from Des.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Because we only have the appearance of being in control

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<v Speaker 2>of this podcast, but we know who the real puppet

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<v Speaker 2>master is.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes. Yeah. You know, even no matter how angry we get,

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<v Speaker 1>we are still commanded to forgive.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, you're right.

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<v Speaker 1>And that leads us to this next segment or this

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<v Speaker 1>next passage where Jesus forgives.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, good transition.

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<v Speaker 1>That was actually a good transition. That was not a

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<v Speaker 1>bad transition.

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<v Speaker 2>No, that was a very good one. So we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to pick up on Luke chapter 23, verse 32. It says,

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<v Speaker 2>two others, both criminals, were led out to be executed

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<v Speaker 2>with him. Talking about Jesus. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>And when they came to a place called the skull

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<v Speaker 2>or Golgotha, they nailed him to the cross. And the

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<v Speaker 2>criminals were also crucified, one on his right and one

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<v Speaker 2>on his left. Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they

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<v Speaker 2>don't know what they are doing. And the soldiers gambled

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<v Speaker 2>for his clothes by throwing dice. The crowd watched and

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<v Speaker 2>the leader scoffed. He saved others, they said. Let him

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<v Speaker 2>save himself as if he really is God's Messiah, the

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<v Speaker 2>chosen one. The soldiers mocked him too by offering him

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<v Speaker 2>a drink of sour wine. They called out to him,

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<v Speaker 2>If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>A sign was fashioned above him with these words, This

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<v Speaker 2>is the King of the Jews. One of the criminals

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<v Speaker 2>hanging beside him scoffed, so you're the Messiah, are you?

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<v Speaker 2>Prove it by saving yourself and us too while you're

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<v Speaker 2>at it. But the other criminal protested, don't you fear

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<v Speaker 2>God even when you've been sentenced to die? We deserve

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<v Speaker 2>to die for our crimes, but this man hasn't done

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<v Speaker 2>anything wrong. And then he said, Jesus, remember me when

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<v Speaker 2>you come into your kingdom. And Jesus replied, I assure

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<v Speaker 2>you today, you'll be with me in paradise. By this time,

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<v Speaker 2>it was about noon and darkness fell across the whole

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<v Speaker 2>land until three o'clock. The light from the sun was

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<v Speaker 2>gone as suddenly the curtain in the sanctuary of the

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<v Speaker 2>temple was torn down the middle. Then Jesus shouted, Father,

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<v Speaker 2>I entrust my spirit into your hands. And with those words,

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<v Speaker 2>he breathed his last.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. There's a lot in there. Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think the big, the dangerous prayer is Father,

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<v Speaker 2>forgive them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that is definitely the focus of the topic. And

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<v Speaker 1>we can go on forever about everything else that's in there. Uh, but, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know why I just got super emotional thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about the criminal, you know, he, you know, here's this

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<v Speaker 1>criminal who's doesn't have a name. He's just known as

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<v Speaker 1>the criminal. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And, uh, one day we're going to one and criminal too, right.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to get to heaven. And I'm, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of questions. I think that God will

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<v Speaker 1>indulge us with these questions. I do.

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<v Speaker 2>I do.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, I think we'll have time obviously to explore

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<v Speaker 1>every question that we have and, uh, that we have

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<v Speaker 1>now on this earth. And I think that, uh, I would,

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<v Speaker 1>I would love to talk to this criminal. The, the

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<v Speaker 1>idea that, that one of them, you know, is scoffing.

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<v Speaker 1>And then the other is completely recognizing that in believing

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<v Speaker 1>that he's the son of God and saying, don't you

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<v Speaker 1>fear God? He's saying, how dare you talk to God

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<v Speaker 1>this way? I mean, he is, he is a believer.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, keep in mind that it did say that

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<v Speaker 1>there were so many people there at that, uh, What

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<v Speaker 1>am I trying to say? Passover week?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Passover festival?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the city was just bursting at the seams at

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<v Speaker 2>this point.

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<v Speaker 1>And it said many were there because they had heard

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<v Speaker 1>that he had raised Lazarus from the dead. So his

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<v Speaker 1>popularity had grown to such a degree to where people

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<v Speaker 1>had heard his claims to be the Messiah. At this time,

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<v Speaker 1>he held nothing back. And so he had done nothing wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody knew it. This is even a testament of the public.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, sometimes... When something happens and there's a patsy,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like you can't sort of, I just watched it yesterday.

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<v Speaker 1>I watched a movie where everybody knew that what was

429
00:18:55.369 --> 00:18:58.779
<v Speaker 1>happening was unjust. And this person who was the patsy

430
00:18:58.819 --> 00:19:01.420
<v Speaker 1>didn't deserve to get fired from his job. But everybody

431
00:19:01.460 --> 00:19:03.119
<v Speaker 1>knew it. Everybody knew it. But nobody wanted to talk

432
00:19:03.140 --> 00:19:05.440
<v Speaker 1>about it because everybody was afraid of the authorities. That

433
00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:08.319
<v Speaker 1>happened just last night. And so here it is. This

434
00:19:08.380 --> 00:19:12.440
<v Speaker 1>man makes a statement that represents, like, everybody here knows

435
00:19:12.500 --> 00:19:15.589
<v Speaker 1>that this man is innocent. Everybody here knows he's done

436
00:19:15.619 --> 00:19:20.240
<v Speaker 1>nothing wrong. And this man recognizes Jesus. Anyway, that's not

437
00:19:20.259 --> 00:19:23.559
<v Speaker 1>the focus of the dangerous prayer.

438
00:19:23.619 --> 00:19:25.839
<v Speaker 2>I want to point out one interesting thing to me.

439
00:19:27.259 --> 00:19:33.730
<v Speaker 2>This guy on the cross, maybe in this specific moment

440
00:19:34.730 --> 00:19:39.170
<v Speaker 2>in history, had the most faith of maybe everybody else

441
00:19:39.190 --> 00:19:45.119
<v Speaker 2>on the planet. Because Jesus came preaching the kingdom of God.

442
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.450
<v Speaker 2>And when you're naked and nailed to the cross, the

443
00:19:49.490 --> 00:19:50.769
<v Speaker 2>kingdom seems like it should be over.

444
00:19:50.890 --> 00:19:54.269
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, everybody lost hope. All the disciples lost hope.

445
00:19:54.430 --> 00:19:56.529
<v Speaker 2>And only the guy on the cross next to him said,

446
00:19:56.670 --> 00:19:57.710
<v Speaker 2>I still believe in your kingdom.

447
00:20:00.890 --> 00:20:02.559
<v Speaker 1>Is that an original thought right now?

448
00:20:02.579 --> 00:20:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Isn't that neat?

449
00:20:04.900 --> 00:20:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Because that's incredible. Yeah. That's incredible.

450
00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Peter lied and denied. James and the Marys, they're standing

451
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:13.720
<v Speaker 2>back in the crowd.

452
00:20:13.740 --> 00:20:18.769
<v Speaker 1>Out of fear. Yeah. And everybody can't believe or understand.

453
00:20:18.910 --> 00:20:19.069
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

454
00:20:19.170 --> 00:20:21.450
<v Speaker 1>And it says that they didn't understand. They didn't remember

455
00:20:21.490 --> 00:20:23.690
<v Speaker 1>his words. They didn't know what was happening. Right. And

456
00:20:23.730 --> 00:20:26.210
<v Speaker 1>it says only after he was resurrected, then they remembered

457
00:20:26.230 --> 00:20:28.470
<v Speaker 1>the promise he told them, right? So they had lost

458
00:20:28.690 --> 00:20:31.980
<v Speaker 1>all hope. They were motivated out of fear. They all ran.

459
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:32.960
<v Speaker 1>They were all in hiding.

460
00:20:34.299 --> 00:20:38.059
<v Speaker 2>Wow. And this guy, this one guy said, Jesus, remember

461
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:39.259
<v Speaker 2>me when you show up in paradise.

462
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:43.180
<v Speaker 1>Before the veil rents into, before the earthquake. Yeah. Because

463
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:44.829
<v Speaker 1>the Roman soldier made a statement.

464
00:20:44.849 --> 00:20:47.269
<v Speaker 2>The only thing he had heard Jesus say was, Father,

465
00:20:47.309 --> 00:20:50.289
<v Speaker 2>forgive them. They don't know what they've done. And he

466
00:20:50.329 --> 00:20:55.190
<v Speaker 2>had no hope for forgiveness except that. Wow, Jeff. What

467
00:20:55.230 --> 00:20:55.670
<v Speaker 2>a thought.

468
00:20:55.990 --> 00:20:56.930
<v Speaker 1>What a thought. Yeah.

469
00:20:57.369 --> 00:20:59.970
<v Speaker 2>What a thought. Anyways, Jesus says, Father.

470
00:20:59.990 --> 00:21:02.130
<v Speaker 1>Now I really want to meet this guy.

471
00:21:02.529 --> 00:21:03.349
<v Speaker 2>This is kind of clear.

472
00:21:03.369 --> 00:21:05.759
<v Speaker 1>I really want to meet this guy. I'm going to

473
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:06.740
<v Speaker 1>find this guy.

474
00:21:07.299 --> 00:21:10.259
<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, maybe you guys will be neighbors in heaven, maybe.

475
00:21:10.579 --> 00:21:15.259
<v Speaker 1>Yes, maybe so. Maybe God will honor that. So the prayer, Father,

476
00:21:15.299 --> 00:21:18.009
<v Speaker 1>forgive them for they don't know what they are doing.

477
00:21:19.130 --> 00:21:22.309
<v Speaker 1>Charlie Kirk's wife prayed that. Yes. Yeah, we saw it

478
00:21:22.329 --> 00:21:26.470
<v Speaker 1>all over social media. Yeah. And what an unbelievable thing.

479
00:21:26.789 --> 00:21:30.829
<v Speaker 1>So the nation right now reacted and are marveling at

480
00:21:30.869 --> 00:21:36.329
<v Speaker 1>the fact, like, how can anybody forgive God? The shooter

481
00:21:36.750 --> 00:21:37.869
<v Speaker 1>of your husband.

482
00:21:38.089 --> 00:21:38.349
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

483
00:21:38.609 --> 00:21:41.539
<v Speaker 1>And we've heard stories like this. I mean, it doesn't

484
00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:43.339
<v Speaker 1>even have to be Charlie Kirk's wife, which is in

485
00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:46.819
<v Speaker 1>recent news. But it could be, you know, like, I'm

486
00:21:46.859 --> 00:21:50.299
<v Speaker 1>sure you've heard this. Have you read or seen YouTube

487
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:58.059
<v Speaker 1>or even documentaries where the victim's wife forgives the criminal?

488
00:21:58.500 --> 00:21:58.680
<v Speaker 2>Sure.

489
00:21:58.980 --> 00:22:03.480
<v Speaker 1>I've actually seen a documentary where they became best friends

490
00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:06.119
<v Speaker 1>and she led him to Christ. And he was on

491
00:22:06.220 --> 00:22:10.890
<v Speaker 1>death row. And she mentored him and walked him through.

492
00:22:10.910 --> 00:22:13.390
<v Speaker 1>And he was there for a couple of years. And

493
00:22:13.450 --> 00:22:18.279
<v Speaker 1>eventually she was a part of the appeal to get

494
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:19.200
<v Speaker 1>him off of death row.

495
00:22:19.980 --> 00:22:20.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

496
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:21.799
<v Speaker 1>I mean, like, which is an honor.

497
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:23.779
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to wrap your head around that kind of thing.

498
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:26.579
<v Speaker 2>So forgiveness. And I've told my story many times coming

499
00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:28.619
<v Speaker 2>from a life of abuse and those kinds of things.

500
00:22:28.700 --> 00:22:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Early on, my biological father was a very bad man

501
00:22:31.710 --> 00:22:35.769
<v Speaker 2>before he became a Christian. And my My dad adopted

502
00:22:35.829 --> 00:22:38.170
<v Speaker 2>me and my life changed, right? So everything was different

503
00:22:38.190 --> 00:22:41.109
<v Speaker 2>between my biological father and my dad. And my dad

504
00:22:41.130 --> 00:22:42.839
<v Speaker 2>just went to heaven here recently. So I miss him.

505
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:44.759
<v Speaker 2>I just ran across some photos of him at my

506
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.119
<v Speaker 2>desk yesterday. Thought about him for a while. But my

507
00:22:48.140 --> 00:22:52.920
<v Speaker 2>biological father was violent towards my mother and I. Very,

508
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:57.880
<v Speaker 2>very abusive for a very long time. For 30-something years,

509
00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:00.579
<v Speaker 2>I never heard anything from him at all after he

510
00:23:00.619 --> 00:23:02.519
<v Speaker 2>gave me up for adoption. One day he reached out.

511
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:04.619
<v Speaker 2>He sent me an email. said that he'd seen all

512
00:23:04.630 --> 00:23:06.900
<v Speaker 2>my messages online, seen what God was doing in my life.

513
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:10.339
<v Speaker 2>And he said, I hope that you believe in redemption

514
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:14.359
<v Speaker 2>because God's changed me over the last several years. He

515
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.359
<v Speaker 2>got sober and gave his life to Christ and his

516
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:20.980
<v Speaker 2>life had changed. And he said, I hope you can

517
00:23:21.019 --> 00:23:24.059
<v Speaker 2>forgive me. So then when I met him, met him

518
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:28.619
<v Speaker 2>one time, he confessed how he treated me and my

519
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:31.740
<v Speaker 2>mom and that it was wrong and that And he said,

520
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:32.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, I don't think you could have been who

521
00:23:33.140 --> 00:23:35.380
<v Speaker 2>you grew up to be if you'd stayed in my life.

522
00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:38.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, I would have destroyed that. But God had

523
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:41.039
<v Speaker 2>to take you away from me. And that was the

524
00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:44.289
<v Speaker 2>best thing. But I hope you can forgive me. And

525
00:23:44.730 --> 00:23:46.970
<v Speaker 2>I told him the words, I do forgive you. But

526
00:23:46.990 --> 00:23:49.130
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that I felt like I forgave him

527
00:23:50.069 --> 00:23:53.710
<v Speaker 2>until I found out after that conversation, maybe 30 minutes later,

528
00:23:53.750 --> 00:23:55.470
<v Speaker 2>he told me that he was dying of cancer and

529
00:23:55.509 --> 00:23:57.980
<v Speaker 2>asked me to do his funeral. And then I was

530
00:23:58.039 --> 00:23:59.519
<v Speaker 2>faced with that when he did die of cancer. I

531
00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:00.940
<v Speaker 2>was faced with that whether or not I was going

532
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:06.839
<v Speaker 2>to do his funeral. And I realized forgiveness, like Charlie

533
00:24:06.859 --> 00:24:10.180
<v Speaker 2>Kirk's wife just did or whatever publicly, is not saying

534
00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:11.220
<v Speaker 2>what you did is okay.

535
00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:12.299
<v Speaker 1>Correct.

536
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:17.400
<v Speaker 2>It's not. It's not saying, oh, no biggie. It was

537
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:20.839
<v Speaker 2>a big deal. It was a devastatingly big deal. This

538
00:24:20.900 --> 00:24:23.740
<v Speaker 2>is the most devastating thing. You nearly ruined my life.

539
00:24:24.099 --> 00:24:24.279
<v Speaker 1>Right?

540
00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:24.960
<v Speaker 2>That kind of thing.

541
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:26.359
<v Speaker 1>And then your mom.

542
00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:31.460
<v Speaker 2>But what I realized was in Romans chapter 12, he says,

543
00:24:31.500 --> 00:24:35.619
<v Speaker 2>don't repay evil with evil, repay evil with good. And

544
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:37.829
<v Speaker 2>then he says, because vengeance is mine, says the Lord,

545
00:24:37.849 --> 00:24:40.869
<v Speaker 2>I will repay. What I realized is forgiveness really is

546
00:24:40.910 --> 00:24:45.730
<v Speaker 2>just me giving up my right to prosecute you and

547
00:24:45.829 --> 00:24:47.369
<v Speaker 2>judge you and execute you.

548
00:24:48.369 --> 00:24:48.569
<v Speaker 1>Right.

549
00:24:48.630 --> 00:24:51.569
<v Speaker 2>And I'll give that over to God. God, you do

550
00:24:51.609 --> 00:24:53.490
<v Speaker 2>what you need to do with him. You know what

551
00:24:53.509 --> 00:24:55.309
<v Speaker 2>he did? He did die and he did have to

552
00:24:55.329 --> 00:24:57.750
<v Speaker 2>go stand before his maker. And he did have to

553
00:24:57.789 --> 00:24:58.269
<v Speaker 2>give an account.

554
00:24:58.730 --> 00:24:59.269
<v Speaker 1>Right. Right.

555
00:25:01.150 --> 00:25:04.710
<v Speaker 2>And that released me on that day when I realized

556
00:25:04.769 --> 00:25:07.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying it's okay. I'm saying it's God's business,

557
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:10.059
<v Speaker 2>not mine anymore. I'm giving them. And dude, I got

558
00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:13.339
<v Speaker 2>set free from the bitterness and the resentment that I'd

559
00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:17.380
<v Speaker 2>had in all that time prior when I finally realized, okay,

560
00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:20.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm not God. I'm going to give him over to

561
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:22.049
<v Speaker 2>God and God's going to do what God's going to

562
00:25:22.109 --> 00:25:23.549
<v Speaker 2>do for justice. Not me.

563
00:25:23.769 --> 00:25:24.369
<v Speaker 1>Right. Yeah.

564
00:25:24.490 --> 00:25:26.980
<v Speaker 2>And that's what sets free. And so, When Jesus says, Father,

565
00:25:27.019 --> 00:25:29.720
<v Speaker 2>forgive them, they don't know what they're doing. Jesus is

566
00:25:29.779 --> 00:25:34.559
<v Speaker 2>actually leading on behalf of those who deserve judgment. And

567
00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:36.079
<v Speaker 2>that's a whole other level, man.

568
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:37.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Right?

569
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:39.900
<v Speaker 2>Personal forgiveness is, I don't have to judge you. But

570
00:25:40.059 --> 00:25:42.369
<v Speaker 2>this is, he's advocating for them now.

571
00:25:42.750 --> 00:25:42.930
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

572
00:25:42.970 --> 00:25:44.130
<v Speaker 2>And that's next level.

573
00:25:44.609 --> 00:25:48.150
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's definitely next level. And really, there's so much

574
00:25:48.170 --> 00:25:52.150
<v Speaker 1>in that statement because he's saying they don't understand. Almost

575
00:25:52.210 --> 00:25:55.210
<v Speaker 1>implying like if they understood. Yeah, yeah. it would be

576
00:25:55.230 --> 00:25:58.049
<v Speaker 1>a whole different thing. Yeah. Right? So Father, forgive them

577
00:25:58.109 --> 00:25:59.549
<v Speaker 1>because they're acting in ignorance.

578
00:25:59.769 --> 00:25:59.950
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

579
00:26:00.250 --> 00:26:00.390
<v Speaker 1>Right?

580
00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:02.180
<v Speaker 2>It was the alcohol in him that was doing it.

581
00:26:02.529 --> 00:26:04.029
<v Speaker 2>He wasn't that way when he was sober. He was

582
00:26:04.069 --> 00:26:05.630
<v Speaker 2>just that way when he was drunk. It was just

583
00:26:05.650 --> 00:26:06.730
<v Speaker 2>the problem was he was drunk all the time.

584
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:07.740
<v Speaker 1>Right. Right?

585
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:11.720
<v Speaker 2>And Jesus is understanding we're drunk on our sin. We

586
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:15.720
<v Speaker 2>are consumed by the evil that is in us to

587
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:18.079
<v Speaker 2>the point we don't even really know the depths of

588
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:19.269
<v Speaker 2>our hearts. Really.

589
00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:19.609
<v Speaker 1>Right?

590
00:26:19.650 --> 00:26:22.930
<v Speaker 2>We're not very self-aware. And Jesus is just like, they

591
00:26:22.950 --> 00:26:25.190
<v Speaker 2>have no idea what they're doing. So forgive them. He

592
00:26:25.690 --> 00:26:32.210
<v Speaker 2>looked at us. He looked at the soldiers, his killers.

593
00:26:32.730 --> 00:26:35.710
<v Speaker 2>He looked at them with a compassion that I hope

594
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.480
<v Speaker 2>we can find in our own hearts. They're like children.

595
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:43.059
<v Speaker 2>They're just stumbling around, consumed by evil. They have no

596
00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:45.859
<v Speaker 2>idea how this is ruining them and everything around them.

597
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:47.700
<v Speaker 2>And if we can start to have that kind of

598
00:26:47.740 --> 00:26:52.119
<v Speaker 2>compassion towards the evils we see in society... Maybe we

599
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:54.359
<v Speaker 2>can come with far more power because it was right

600
00:26:54.380 --> 00:26:56.900
<v Speaker 2>after that prayer that this criminal goes, Jesus, I want

601
00:26:56.920 --> 00:26:57.369
<v Speaker 2>what you have.

602
00:26:57.930 --> 00:26:58.829
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Right?

603
00:26:59.289 --> 00:27:01.009
<v Speaker 2>Man, the world will want what we have when we

604
00:27:01.049 --> 00:27:05.369
<v Speaker 2>step up and we're able to say, God, you fix it. Yeah.

605
00:27:05.750 --> 00:27:09.890
<v Speaker 1>Wow. What a great podcast. I rate this top notch.

606
00:27:10.059 --> 00:27:11.799
<v Speaker 2>All right. That was a good one.

607
00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

608
00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:13.220
<v Speaker 2>It was a good conversation.

609
00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:17.119
<v Speaker 1>Good conversation. All right. Well, hey, hopefully we will see

610
00:27:17.140 --> 00:27:18.380
<v Speaker 1>you tomorrow on The Bible Guys.