1 00:00:05,490 --> 00:00:09,060 Welcome back to count me in IMA's podcast about all things affecting the 2 00:00:09,061 --> 00:00:11,940 accounting and finance world. I'm your host, Adam Larson. 3 00:00:11,941 --> 00:00:16,500 And this is episode 141 of our series. For today's conversation, 4 00:00:16,501 --> 00:00:17,790 we welcome back Anders Liu-Linberg. 5 00:00:18,750 --> 00:00:23,370 Anders is an advisor to senior finance and FP&A leaders on how to succeed with 6 00:00:23,371 --> 00:00:25,500 business partnering. He is a partner, 7 00:00:25,530 --> 00:00:29,370 the chief operating officer and the chief marketing officer for the business 8 00:00:29,371 --> 00:00:30,360 partnering Institute. 9 00:00:30,750 --> 00:00:35,520 Back in episode 45 of count me in Anders talked about how insight time influence 10 00:00:35,850 --> 00:00:40,500 equals impact when it comes to business partnering. In this episode, 11 00:00:40,710 --> 00:00:44,700 he focuses on the influence piece of that equation and shares how business 12 00:00:44,701 --> 00:00:47,640 professionals can increase their influence across the organization. 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,330 Keep listening to hear more about business partnering and contributing to 14 00:00:51,331 --> 00:00:52,260 overall impact. 15 00:00:58,350 --> 00:01:02,610 So first Anders, thank you for joining us again in our first podcast episode, 16 00:01:02,611 --> 00:01:03,990 I know we really talked about, 17 00:01:04,110 --> 00:01:06,870 business partnering at a little bit of a higher level. You know, 18 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:11,550 you gave us your definition of insights, times influence equals impact, 19 00:01:11,551 --> 00:01:14,910 and we really appreciated all that information you shared. 20 00:01:14,911 --> 00:01:17,640 So we wanted to bring you back and for today's conversation, 21 00:01:17,641 --> 00:01:21,480 we really want to dive into the influence piece of that equation and how, 22 00:01:21,481 --> 00:01:25,200 developing influence leads to more effective business partnering. 23 00:01:25,201 --> 00:01:29,760 So to start off our conversation, you know, as far as influence goes, 24 00:01:29,820 --> 00:01:32,160 what is the first step? You know, 25 00:01:32,220 --> 00:01:36,090 what does it take to be an influential business leader? 26 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:41,340 So if you're a finance professional today and you want to influence 27 00:01:41,341 --> 00:01:42,300 business leaders, 28 00:01:42,660 --> 00:01:46,560 I guess the first simple step that you need to take is to 29 00:01:46,740 --> 00:01:51,120 identify who are those business leaders that you're most likely to be 30 00:01:51,330 --> 00:01:55,560 supporting, because that are always clear to people, right? So who is, 31 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:56,730 who's my stakeholder, 32 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,020 who is this person or these few people that I need to influence? I think that's, 33 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,770 that's really step number one. And then step number two, once you have 34 00:02:06,870 --> 00:02:11,520 intensified them is really to reach out to them and say, Hey, you know, 35 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,740 I used to work in accounting and finance, 36 00:02:13,741 --> 00:02:16,770 and now when I get closer to the business and, you know, 37 00:02:16,780 --> 00:02:18,450 help you drive your agenda, 38 00:02:19,020 --> 00:02:22,770 can we have a talk about what you're doing and how it can maybe help, right? 39 00:02:22,771 --> 00:02:25,800 So then you can have the first conversation and of course, 40 00:02:26,010 --> 00:02:30,960 then you build on it from there, but at two steps, identify and engage and then, 41 00:02:30,961 --> 00:02:33,270 you know, we can get it into the more details. 42 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,120 And then the business leaders that you work with, 43 00:02:36,270 --> 00:02:39,450 they're not always just interested in data and reports, right? 44 00:02:39,451 --> 00:02:42,480 There's a little bit more of a relationship, I think that has to be built, 45 00:02:42,481 --> 00:02:46,500 especially when we talk about business partnering. So as far as influence, 46 00:02:46,740 --> 00:02:49,110 how can I become part of the team? 47 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,570 Yeah. So, so key for someone to send to you is obviously that they trust you 48 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,630 and in any kind of human relation, you know, 49 00:02:57,631 --> 00:03:02,380 we want to get to know people before we start to trust in them, of course, 50 00:03:02,410 --> 00:03:04,780 from a finance and accounting perspective, 51 00:03:04,900 --> 00:03:08,500 we come often with the numbers and with the data and, you know, 52 00:03:08,501 --> 00:03:11,350 the foundation is that they can trust those, right? 53 00:03:11,351 --> 00:03:15,940 If our accounting is not working so well and the numbers keep changing, I mean, 54 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,720 we need to fix that foundation first because otherwise there's not going to be 55 00:03:19,721 --> 00:03:20,554 any trust. 56 00:03:20,950 --> 00:03:25,450 The second bit is then to develop the interpersonal trust and build the 57 00:03:25,451 --> 00:03:27,490 relationship that can best too, 58 00:03:27,491 --> 00:03:30,760 by spending as much time as possible with your stakeholders. 59 00:03:31,180 --> 00:03:33,520 So today many finance teams, you know, 60 00:03:33,521 --> 00:03:37,570 they sit on their own floor in the building and they sit together and they do 61 00:03:37,571 --> 00:03:41,080 finance stuff. But if you want to build relationships with business leaders, 62 00:03:41,470 --> 00:03:46,030 you got to get out from that cubicle and move your desk and your chair 63 00:03:46,180 --> 00:03:49,240 down to those people you want to support and sit with them, 64 00:03:49,450 --> 00:03:52,090 if not for a full week, then at least three to four days a week. 65 00:03:52,091 --> 00:03:55,660 And then maybe you can one day finance because that's the best way to build 66 00:03:55,661 --> 00:03:57,370 trust, to be around them, you know, 67 00:03:57,371 --> 00:04:02,350 have the coffee side chat and all those small info and sometimes follow up 68 00:04:02,410 --> 00:04:05,320 is that we need to do, because that's how you get to know people. 69 00:04:05,710 --> 00:04:08,350 And if you don't know people, they probably don't trust you either. 70 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:10,120 That's a great point. 71 00:04:10,180 --> 00:04:14,830 And it is a lot of times I feel some of those more casual conversations as well, 72 00:04:14,951 --> 00:04:16,690 where you kind of learn about each other. 73 00:04:16,930 --> 00:04:19,870 So putting yourself out there and kind of forcing that opportunity, 74 00:04:19,871 --> 00:04:23,320 I think is a great recommendation, kind of building on this, you know, 75 00:04:23,321 --> 00:04:27,340 a little bit more, as far as the steps, is there a proven structure, you know, 76 00:04:27,341 --> 00:04:31,600 that could help me to really start influencing these business leaders and the 77 00:04:32,410 --> 00:04:33,820 decision-making, you know, beyond the relationships. 78 00:04:33,850 --> 00:04:35,680 Now let's get back into the business a little bit. 79 00:04:36,620 --> 00:04:40,270 Yeah. So we generally have like a three-step process you could follow. 80 00:04:40,810 --> 00:04:45,100 The first step is what we already talked about is to identify your stakeholders 81 00:04:45,610 --> 00:04:48,850 or the business leaders that you want to support. And then do a small, 82 00:04:48,851 --> 00:04:51,880 let's say a desktop, a biography of analysis and say, 83 00:04:52,180 --> 00:04:55,360 how strong is my current relationship with these stakeholders? 84 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,100 How much influence do they have in decision making? 85 00:05:00,490 --> 00:05:03,550 And what are the currently thinking about, right? Because then you sort of know, 86 00:05:03,700 --> 00:05:03,960 you know, 87 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,620 that the important ones where the relationship is maybe not so strong and then 88 00:05:08,621 --> 00:05:10,300 maybe they don't have such a good impression of you. 89 00:05:10,540 --> 00:05:14,560 That's where you need to start to identify the person and say, Hey, 90 00:05:14,561 --> 00:05:16,210 I want to sit down, have a lunch or talk with you. 91 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,410 So at that talk with our coffee or lunch, or virtual, whatever it might be, 92 00:05:20,860 --> 00:05:22,870 you sit down and talk about three things, 93 00:05:23,980 --> 00:05:27,820 introduce yourselves if you haven't done that already talk about how their 94 00:05:27,821 --> 00:05:30,580 business is going and then, you know, 95 00:05:30,581 --> 00:05:33,700 get an idea about what do they think about finances right now, 96 00:05:33,820 --> 00:05:38,380 because that tells you one of their priorities and what do they think if you. 97 00:05:38,381 --> 00:05:40,810 Then you had, when you've had that talk would be half an hour, an hour, 98 00:05:40,811 --> 00:05:44,530 it doesn't have to be long. Then you go back to them and say, 99 00:05:44,531 --> 00:05:47,440 thanks for having that chat with me. Now, I know more about your, 100 00:05:47,441 --> 00:05:52,210 let's say your top three priorities. Now I want to try to help you. So, 101 00:05:52,660 --> 00:05:55,060 can we discuss how it can be a part of that? 102 00:05:55,510 --> 00:05:56,890 And so maybe they have some priorities. 103 00:05:56,891 --> 00:06:01,820 Some are maybe very far out in terms of this transformation or some very 104 00:06:01,821 --> 00:06:02,960 customer centric things, 105 00:06:03,260 --> 00:06:06,230 but some of it could be very relevant also to finance and accounting to get 106 00:06:06,650 --> 00:06:08,990 involved in. So you might pick one of that top roads and say, 107 00:06:09,260 --> 00:06:13,820 I'm going to spend some time analyzing the numbers and figuring out, 108 00:06:14,330 --> 00:06:14,421 you know, 109 00:06:14,421 --> 00:06:17,600 what could be some good insights that can help you make better decisions in this 110 00:06:17,601 --> 00:06:20,990 area. So you spend the time, you know, then you sit behind the desk, 111 00:06:21,090 --> 00:06:24,440 you do analysis. Maybe we still have to work with data reports and analysis, 112 00:06:24,770 --> 00:06:28,130 just not as much as we do today to generate those insights. 113 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,160 And once you have looked at it and probably have talked to some of the team 114 00:06:31,161 --> 00:06:34,310 members and that the business leaders team and develops a business context 115 00:06:34,311 --> 00:06:37,820 around it, you put it on the meeting with the stakeholder, at the meeting, 116 00:06:37,821 --> 00:06:40,040 you present your insights and say, 117 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,250 here's what I've learned about your situation, your priority. 118 00:06:43,700 --> 00:06:46,640 And maybe you even come with some suggestions of how you can move forward, 119 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,860 but then you discuss the insights, 120 00:06:49,460 --> 00:06:54,230 you discuss some actions and then you take action, right? 121 00:06:54,500 --> 00:06:58,430 That's how you really get involved in the decision-making of these senior 122 00:06:58,431 --> 00:07:00,830 business leaders. They want you there, 123 00:07:01,250 --> 00:07:02,720 you got to bring the right things to the table. 124 00:07:03,980 --> 00:07:08,150 And so again, I just want to kind of recap the equation, if you will, 125 00:07:08,151 --> 00:07:11,840 that you put out there, insights, times influence equals impact. 126 00:07:11,841 --> 00:07:16,370 And I know you were just talking about insights, so tying it all together, 127 00:07:16,371 --> 00:07:20,510 a lot of times, as you said, finance professionals have the insights, right? 128 00:07:20,511 --> 00:07:21,830 They have the numbers, they have the data, 129 00:07:21,831 --> 00:07:25,220 and we're talking today about developing that influence. 130 00:07:25,221 --> 00:07:27,860 So even as you follow this proven structure, 131 00:07:27,861 --> 00:07:30,920 these three steps that you just summarized for us, 132 00:07:30,921 --> 00:07:35,090 I think it's pretty often that you'll see the decisions that are made from your 133 00:07:35,300 --> 00:07:38,330 insights are often relayed to you after the fact, right? 134 00:07:38,660 --> 00:07:40,940 So a lot of people interested in business partnering, you know, 135 00:07:40,941 --> 00:07:43,280 that end piece of the equation, making an impact. 136 00:07:43,281 --> 00:07:46,700 They want to get ahead of the curve. They want to be a part of the decisions. 137 00:07:46,910 --> 00:07:50,030 So how do I get ahead of that curve and how do I become, 138 00:07:50,060 --> 00:07:53,570 somebody who can be consulted for these decisions moving forward? 139 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,540 So I think, I think it's important to state that, you know, 140 00:07:56,570 --> 00:07:57,800 Rome wasn't built in a day. 141 00:07:58,130 --> 00:08:01,940 So just because you start to come with some great insights, they might say, 142 00:08:01,970 --> 00:08:03,920 thank you might have a discussion with you, 143 00:08:04,970 --> 00:08:09,740 but there's decisions might still be made behind closed doors with other senior 144 00:08:09,741 --> 00:08:10,574 stakeholders, 145 00:08:10,670 --> 00:08:14,840 but what's high as you consistently show up with great insights. 146 00:08:14,841 --> 00:08:19,550 And you're a great discussion partner and the insights you 147 00:08:19,551 --> 00:08:22,610 give these great decisions that leads to great financial outcomes. 148 00:08:22,611 --> 00:08:25,250 At the end of the day, the business leaders, 149 00:08:25,251 --> 00:08:27,500 they will pull you in more and more. Suddenly, 150 00:08:27,501 --> 00:08:32,390 you're not just part of operational discussions where the budget once 151 00:08:32,391 --> 00:08:34,520 a year, suddenly you are in part of the strategic discussion to say, 152 00:08:34,521 --> 00:08:37,100 what are we going to do in three to five years from now? 153 00:08:37,101 --> 00:08:41,720 What do you think business partner and the gold standard of course would 154 00:08:41,721 --> 00:08:46,340 be that no business leader would make any important decisions without consulting 155 00:08:46,341 --> 00:08:49,400 you the business partner first. But to be honest, 156 00:08:49,401 --> 00:08:52,670 I think few people have arrived at this, this stage here. 157 00:08:52,671 --> 00:08:55,890 But that's the gold standard you can even go further than, but let's, 158 00:08:56,130 --> 00:08:57,510 let's say that for another conversation. 159 00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:59,820 Okay. That's great. We're again, 160 00:08:59,850 --> 00:09:03,120 trying to go full circle here with this conversation and business partnering is 161 00:09:03,121 --> 00:09:05,820 such an important topic. It has been for a long time, 162 00:09:05,821 --> 00:09:09,270 but it's really top of mind for many finance individuals today. 163 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:14,070 So let's just say I'm often involved in these business leaders decisions. Now, 164 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,960 you know, once the decision is made, maybe I don't get the progress, 165 00:09:18,961 --> 00:09:23,010 the results, right? The what happens afterwards, then what's really my role. 166 00:09:23,011 --> 00:09:27,180 How do I continue to maintain and be a part of that conversation? 167 00:09:28,350 --> 00:09:29,850 I think that that's a great point, right? 168 00:09:29,851 --> 00:09:34,020 Because we often talk about business partner as a means to making better 169 00:09:34,021 --> 00:09:35,190 decisions in the company. 170 00:09:35,850 --> 00:09:38,520 But we also know that just because the decision is made, 171 00:09:38,850 --> 00:09:41,910 it doesn't mean that action or the right action is taken, 172 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,220 or it could even be the right action is taken, 173 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,740 but it doesn't lead to the desired outcome. Right? 174 00:09:46,741 --> 00:09:51,210 So the execution part of it while the business partner is not out there moving 175 00:09:51,211 --> 00:09:53,310 the nuts and bolts of things that needs to be done, 176 00:09:53,820 --> 00:09:56,940 he or she can follow up on these things, 177 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,130 be the catalyst that ensures action is taken. And then once action is taken, 178 00:10:02,430 --> 00:10:06,570 you follow up on the results, did we achieve what we wanted? If yes, 179 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,820 maybe you can push for more, but if, no, 180 00:10:08,940 --> 00:10:12,480 you should be part of the conversation to figure out why maybe you would do that 181 00:10:12,481 --> 00:10:16,440 independently and come with new suggestions for what to do instead. Right? 182 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:21,450 So business partnering is an end to end activity, starting with, you know, 183 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,670 getting hold of the data and the numbers, 184 00:10:24,510 --> 00:10:28,620 true to making the decision and going through the whole execution and feedback 185 00:10:28,621 --> 00:10:32,970 loop where, you know, so it's, it's a circuit and I think that's very important. 186 00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:34,710 It doesn't stop once the decision is made, right. 187 00:10:34,711 --> 00:10:35,544 You have to be part of the whole thing. 188 00:10:36,390 --> 00:10:38,640 So I do want to ask one more question if that's okay, 189 00:10:38,641 --> 00:10:42,960 and we can maybe use this as a preview for the next conversation, like you said, 190 00:10:43,230 --> 00:10:47,400 but, the end result being impact, right? So if we develop this insight, 191 00:10:47,401 --> 00:10:50,310 we follow this full circle of the full feedback loop. 192 00:10:50,311 --> 00:10:54,810 And after a decision is made finances, such an evolving function right now, 193 00:10:55,290 --> 00:10:56,940 what does impact really look like? 194 00:10:56,941 --> 00:11:00,690 And what should a business partner really kind of be focused on when it comes to 195 00:11:01,140 --> 00:11:03,930 analyzing the results of the decisions that have been made? 196 00:11:04,770 --> 00:11:05,640 Yeah, so I think, you know, 197 00:11:05,650 --> 00:11:09,690 if we talk about the outcomes that we want to create business partners, or, 198 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:09,931 you know, 199 00:11:09,931 --> 00:11:13,290 the fan is functioning in general and how we want to measure ourselves. 200 00:11:13,940 --> 00:11:17,760 And we firmly believe there are three things to look at. The first is, 201 00:11:18,210 --> 00:11:21,030 are we as a business achieving the goals that we want, you know, 202 00:11:21,060 --> 00:11:24,120 could be a relational, tactical, strategic goal, and, you know, you name it, 203 00:11:24,510 --> 00:11:27,750 but how are we reaching our meeting of beating those goals? That is number one, 204 00:11:28,020 --> 00:11:31,260 because we were failing business, we also failing in finance. 205 00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:34,800 We cannot succeed in finance by improving a process or, you know, 206 00:11:34,801 --> 00:11:37,590 making a nicer tool or something like that. 207 00:11:37,860 --> 00:11:41,940 We can only succeed if the business succeeds. So that's, that's number one. 208 00:11:42,570 --> 00:11:44,700 Number two is then are you part of it? 209 00:11:44,730 --> 00:11:49,140 Are you part of the success and a good measure to look at there is customer 210 00:11:49,141 --> 00:11:50,880 feedback or stakeholder feedback. 211 00:11:51,210 --> 00:11:55,960 So as a finance function or an individual with multiple stakeholders do you 212 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:56,613 actually ask for feedback, am I part of creating these results here 213 00:12:02,980 --> 00:12:04,870 or am I just the person that comes to the report, 214 00:12:05,230 --> 00:12:07,870 because obviously those are two different things. And, you know, 215 00:12:07,871 --> 00:12:10,030 by all means it could be that the stakeholder says, yeah, 216 00:12:10,031 --> 00:12:12,850 you're a great support, I love the report, and I can really use it for a lot, 217 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:14,620 but then you're still just doing the report. 218 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:16,030 That's probably half the third step. 219 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,740 The third step is to sort of document what have you been doing to help create 220 00:12:20,741 --> 00:12:23,680 this impact? And we use a simple formula there called SCRI 221 00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:29,710 most the situation pose the challenge we face as a business that we needed to 222 00:12:29,711 --> 00:12:34,060 overcome. What resolution did we come up with and what was the impact? 223 00:12:34,780 --> 00:12:35,830 So you sort of, 224 00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:40,180 as a finance professional to try to have not a few of these impact stories 225 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,930 documented throughout the year. So at the end of it, you know, 226 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,670 finance get some power for ourself and say, 227 00:12:45,671 --> 00:12:50,590 we have these 35 fantastic impact stories that we were part of 228 00:12:51,130 --> 00:12:54,580 to help the business succeed. And boy, did we have a good year this year? Right? 229 00:12:54,581 --> 00:12:58,630 So we were also part of the success finance, but those are the three things, 230 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,080 you know, how we succeeded in the business, 231 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:02,740 how are we getting good customer feedback? 232 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:07,030 And can we actually document and articulate what our role was in that success? 233 00:13:09,370 --> 00:13:12,130 This has been count me in IMA's podcast, 234 00:13:12,131 --> 00:13:15,370 providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from the 235 00:13:15,371 --> 00:13:17,440 accounting and finance profession. If you like, 236 00:13:17,450 --> 00:13:20,830 what you heard and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant accounting and 237 00:13:20,831 --> 00:13:21,880 finance education, 238 00:13:22,030 --> 00:13:26,890 visit IMA's website@www.net that'll work.