[00:00:00] Antony Whitaker: Welcome to the Grow My Salon Business podcast, where we focus on the business side of hairdressing. I'm your host, Antony Whitaker, and I'll be talking to thought leaders in the hairdressing industry, discussing insightful, provocative, and inspiring ideas that matter. So get ready to learn, get ready to be challenged, get ready to be inspired, and most importantly, get ready to grow your salon business. 
[00:00:28] Antony Whitaker: Hello, and welcome to today's episode of the Grow My Salon Business Podcast. I'm your host, Antony Whitaker. And as always, it's great to have you here with us today. Now video versions of our podcast are also available on our YouTube channel. So if you want to put faces to the names, then head on over to grow my salon business on YouTube and like, and subscribe to the channel.
[00:00:54] Antony Whitaker: And if you're watching this on YouTube, then remember to hit the like or thumbs up button. It's a small thing that you can do that goes a long way for us. So on with today's show. Now, I can't think of any family in the world of hairdressing that has made the impact that the Mascolo family have. Whether it was the salons, the schools, the products, or the incredible shows and stunning photography, the Mascolo brothers, Tony, Guy, Bruno, and Anthony were at the forefront of everything in hairdressing.
[00:01:26] Antony Whitaker: My guest today is Anthony Mascolo, whose creativity and leadership was the force behind the creative direction of the brand. So in today's podcast, we will discuss the use of AI in hairdressing the changing salon business today, leadership and team building and lots more. So without further ado, welcome to the show Anthony Mascolo.
[00:01:47] Anthony Mascolo: Oh, thank you very much. It's a complete pleasure to be chatting with you, Antony. 
[00:01:52] Antony Whitaker: Well, it's good to have the opportunity. We've been able to do this a few times over the last. I dare say 30 to 40 years. 
[00:02:02] Anthony Mascolo: a long time ago in Australia. I remember that.
[00:02:04] Antony Whitaker: in New Zealand when we first met I think it was like
[00:02:07] Anthony Mascolo: New Zealand, first of all, you know what they were both very similar in the sense
[00:02:10] Antony Whitaker: Well, yeah, when you yeah, I get it. Okay, don't tell them
[00:02:14] Anthony Mascolo: good to see you.
[00:02:15] Antony Whitaker: um, okay So listen, let's jump in and get going. So I know you're pressed for time. Um, You recently told me when I last saw you you said to me that you had retired but knowing you that's probably not strictly true So, uh, what are you doing with yourself these
[00:02:29] Anthony Mascolo: Well, you know, we did retire, you know, after COVID it was kind of, um, a lot of different situations were going on and it was a good time to say, right, you know what, I need to stop doing what we're doing. And, uh, take some time out, you know, time out to, to be with my wife and, and just enjoy, you know, the, the next stage of your life really, and I think that's what we're doing.
[00:02:51] Anthony Mascolo: We're having a great time, you know, we still do a few things, you know, if someone wants to shoot something that's appealing, um, then, you know, we'll, we'll go for it and work with it, you know, it's still in your blood to, it's not really work. You know, but still got the library where we do infringe and infringes going strong, you know, We do stuff online all the time and we've got a new print that came out at the end of last year Which year we do one a year one every year and a half And uh, you know, so things are as busy as they can be really
[00:03:24] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Good. Good. Okay. Uh, that's what I wanted to talk about actually with Infringe because one of the things that I noticed that, uh, in the latest one is that you have started to, uh, integrate AI into all the photographic side of stuff that you are doing, which is really exciting. And I know you've always been very experimental with, uh, photography.
[00:03:45] Antony Whitaker: Uh, so talk to us about, um, AI and infringe and how you are utilizing that and what you see the future is for that. Yeah,
[00:03:52] Anthony Mascolo: I think, you know, AI has been there for ages, you know, we haven't really taken as much notice as we do now, but, you know, it's been on our phones. You know, Siri has been there for ages and it's all part of helping you achieve certain commands you want the computer to do. And I think really with photographic work, it's improved a lot in the sense of what it gives you.
[00:04:14] Anthony Mascolo: Uh, there's two ways of playing it. I mean, for me, it was really just experimenting. It's not something that we're really integrating into everything we're doing. Um, because I think it's, uh, the programs that you get depending on what you, how you retouch and how you work with your, you know, pictures and whatever.
[00:04:31] Anthony Mascolo: And there's Adobe that is very strong in this, but very in control of what you do, you know, and then there's other ones that kind of just give you sporadic kind of, uh, images from putting an image in, you get something out of it. But what, what's interesting, it's, it's a form of really research. You know, I don't think it's, um, I enjoyed it because it was something different and quite quick, but it's a form of research really.
[00:04:57] Anthony Mascolo: Like use Pinterest or use, you know, magazines like years ago, cut up magazines and have all different ideas and, and trying to work something in between that, that appealed to you. And that was what you wanted to do. And I think really AI is very similar to that. You know, you're tending to show you lots of different things and, and see what it comes up with.
[00:05:15] Anthony Mascolo: So it's kind of a. an inspirational tool for yourself, you know, because it, you know, it's, it's good at creating stuff. It makes some ridiculous looking things too, but it can do some good, but it's still really, you know, in its infant stages, but it's also very much to do with the creative. You've got to think how AI works really.
[00:05:36] Anthony Mascolo: It's that instead of, you know, going through a load of processes and going through a load of stages, you just tell it. And once you understand the language and learn the language and you know, your particular program learns your language, then you start, you know, you can retouch things much quicker.
[00:05:51] Anthony Mascolo: Instead of going around retouching it all around the picture, you can just tell it to do it and it does it. And so it's instant. So really, it's um, it's just a new tool, like everything, you know, like editing years ago when it was on one inch, two inch, and then it became, you know, avid and revolutionized or, you know, all those big machines.
[00:06:08] Anthony Mascolo: It's the same thing. It'll, it'll take over some. Um, things that you use now anyway and make it faster and allow you to, to do different kind of creatives, you know, but it's still down to the, to yourself, really what you want to achieve. The story we did in, um, in Fringe really was playing around using some of our old images and, and just seeing how it can just transform and, you know, see what can happen with hair.
[00:06:34] Anthony Mascolo: And I, and I think it's, uh, you know, it's a great thing. It's a great thing. You know, it can really be quite creative.
[00:06:40] Antony Whitaker: yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, in the 80s when you sort of picked up a camera and really started to develop that side of your, you know, sort of creative expression, it led to you, you know, entering a lot of awards and winning a lot of awards, you know, uh, you and the team. So I want to ask you about AI in terms of awards, because, you know, what you can do with AI isn't what you're doing with hair, so to speak, as a hairdresser, it's what you're doing with the technology.
[00:07:09] Antony Whitaker: So what sort of impact do you think that AI is going to have on the, you know, awards side of the industry?
[00:07:16] Anthony Mascolo: I would imagine really, uh, it needs to be policed. You know, people need to do it and show the Polaroid and show the real work and whatever. I think maybe eventually there'll be something that is an award for AI. So it's using your own kind of, uh, talent to create something. Um, not necessarily, say, the hairdresser, but the person who's working on, you know, the, the, uh, the actual photographer or whatever, but I don't think it will be a problem.
[00:07:42] Anthony Mascolo: I think they'll find solutions on how to make sure people don't use it to kind of not be doing the hair. I mean when it's a hair awards, it's about the quality of the hair and how they've done it. You know, if you really look now, you know people can retouch Place another bit, make it longer, make it thicker, make it this, make it that, you know, you can do that anyway.
[00:08:00] Anthony Mascolo: And, but, you know, a lot of the looks are, you showed the, you know, the original photograph or the, the Polaroid or, you know, whatever. I mean, everyone can cheat, but I don't think it's really necessary or possible really to cheat that much. AI will be, you'll know. If, if something's, you know, you know, I think you have to have probably eventually it'll be do it live, you know, I mean, that'll probably be, you know, the situation that people, if they're entering and they've got a collection and they've got to do that collection live.
[00:08:32] Anthony Mascolo: I think that will probably be an add on if it becomes out of control, but I don't think it will. I think. You know, I think if it's got its own place, which it probably will get, then it won't have so much a problem of, you know, trying to, you know, you're going to use it to the maximum because that's what you're using, you know, so, but if people are not sure if it's real or not, I think probably eventually some of the, you know, [00:09:00] the photographic competitions will want to see some of the work live, not all of it, but maybe, you know, one or two or something.
[00:09:07] Antony Whitaker: I think that's a really interesting way around what you just said, actually have a section, have a category for AI. So, no one's having to hide anything. You're saying this is the AI category. Uh, and then with the other categories show up before and after Polaroid, you know, that sort of thing. So, 
[00:09:22] Antony Whitaker: yeah, 
[00:09:22] Anthony Mascolo: the real problem is, uh, with art, you know, the A. I. can do a lot of very, you know, creative stuff by studying everybody else's art. They can do it really quickly,
[00:09:32] Antony Whitaker: Yeah.
[00:09:33] Anthony Mascolo: and, you know, merge them, do the same, or whatever. So, you know, to be an artist, and to paint, and to do all those things, and to create, and think, and whatever, takes you years, and it, you know, it takes, uh, you know, being clever, and a genius, or whatever, having that, you know,
[00:09:49] Anthony Mascolo: so there is a slight problem because you can't always, you know, the AI is really a wealth of information that it can just put that stuff together.
[00:09:58] Anthony Mascolo: With hairdressing, I think, yeah, you know, yeah, you've got to do real hair to be hairdresser. You've got to do clients. I think that's why we're in a good place. We've always been in a good place. A lot of things have taken over from other industries, but you can't really get someone else to do, you know, a machine to do hair.
[00:10:15] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Uh, I know we were just chatting before we pushed record and you'd just come back from Japan. Uh, and it's interesting, you know, what you see in different countries as to, as to how salons, uh, use technology. So what I wanted to ask you about was AI in a salon sense, not photography. Do you see any other uses as
[00:10:38] Antony Whitaker: to how AI can be integrated?
[00:10:40] Anthony Mascolo: I think it's being used anyway, you know, gathering data, going to your clients, making sure that you can then give them information at the right time, what they, what shampoos they like and all that. That's AI, working it all out for you, kind of getting it in some kind of order.
[00:10:55] Anthony Mascolo: And I think really technology, absolutely. Where it's organizing and, and detailing and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. It's already being used. I would imagine. It's, you know, it's not there. Look at ai, how it's changing everything. It's just slowly doing its bit, you know, it's getting better and better and, and more effective so it can then eventually, you know, do the job, you know, for you in a sense of that you, you still have to tell it and, and gear.
[00:11:20] Anthony Mascolo: It's not gonna do it on its own and you know, because it's doing it for you. So I would imagine that's not really going to change.
[00:11:27] Antony Whitaker: yeah, okay.
[00:11:29] Anthony Mascolo: I'm not, I'm not really sure. I'm not in the salon. So,
[00:11:31] Antony Whitaker: yeah, yeah,
[00:11:32] Anthony Mascolo: but I know everything is much more, you can look at everything on your phone, everybody's clients, you know, when they're coming in, who's canceled, what time they're doing this, that, that, and everything.
[00:11:42] Anthony Mascolo: You know, it's all on your phone. So I think that's really a little bit to do with AI.
[00:11:46] Antony Whitaker: yeah, yeah, no, it is for sure. Okay, um, now you're not in the salon business, so to speak, anymore, but, you know, 20, 30 years ago, when, you know, you and your brothers, the Toni and Guy salons were sort of exploding everywhere. It was a very different sort of business. To what it is today, because like in the UK now, 60 percent of hairdressers are self-employed.
[00:12:08] Antony Whitaker: If you, if you were opening salons today, if you and your brothers were starting today, what do you think you would do different as far as salons go?
[00:12:16] Anthony Mascolo: Well, the thing is when we opened the Salons, you know, my brother started first Toni and Guy, you know, the oldest, and they started Toni and Guy and that was in the sixties, 63. Um, then from there, Bruno joined in 68 and I joined in 74. My dad was part of it. So basically the, the thing that we did was that we were a family.
[00:12:37] Anthony Mascolo: It was a family doing the business. And I think the success was because it was a family and we were all very, you know, close and we all had a different role. I think, you know, if you started today, you'd do the same thing, really, if you could still work as a family. You do the same thing, but you probably have a different system, you know, of how you work, you know, I think people having people coming in and you get all the systems and, you know, you work it that way and they all train, they do their bartering and they grow, you know, all the things that we learned and kind of studied from, you know, all the different ones that they made our own method in our own way.
[00:13:11] Anthony Mascolo: Obviously we had our own way of cutting, but it was getting everything in some kind of order, you know, it is different today, you know, I think you can still do that, but it would be different. You know, I think, you know, people don't have as many assistants in salons, you know, they, a lot of the stylists on commission, you know, uh, a lot of them freelancers.
[00:13:32] Anthony Mascolo: So, you know, there's a lot of businesses that, um, I think what's important when you have a salon is that the quality of everybody in that salon is a high standard and the equal standard, you know, as much as possible. That's why we obviously did all that training and still do, you know, the Toni and Guy Saturday.
[00:13:48] Anthony Mascolo: which my, my nieces and nephews run. You know, it's their, their business. They do a great job. But it's still, you know, if it was today and you're starting, you probably, you know, I would, you would have maybe more people renting a position, but still being under a banner of education. So you could still do education for everyone.
[00:14:10] Anthony Mascolo: I mean, this is me just talking off the top of my head
[00:14:12] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, no, no. It's interesting your thoughts on
[00:14:14] Anthony Mascolo: You'd still, you'd still want everyone to have some form of, you know, quality in where they're working from, but they're not, you know, as committed, I suppose, you know. Being involved in every single thing and then making their own money and whatever.
[00:14:28] Anthony Mascolo: I think people after COVID, it changed dramatically. You know, you've seen a lot of people that have had salons and a lot of salons, you know, slowly tech, you know, lose some of them. And I think it's really to do with everyone getting their independence. It's it's COVID it was Instagram, social media, everyone being able to promote themselves as themselves and create their own little world of clients and whatever.
[00:14:52] Anthony Mascolo: I think really. It's progression. It's where it's moved on to. Um, you know, we, we all still have how we believe hair should be done and whatever. But, you know, it was no different then to is now. You know, you've got really great ones and you've got ones that weren't much good, you know. There were a lot of people that knew what to give the client, you know, and not necessarily cut perfect and did this style, but did what the client wanted and had a big clientele.
[00:15:19] Anthony Mascolo: And I think that's where it's at now. People are, you know, all a bit more independent. I think after a while, people will like to go somewhere and belong to something. But that can be in a different way, you know, maybe not as tied in and pay people and, you know, maybe they can rent a chair or pay for a position.
[00:15:38] Anthony Mascolo: There's a few salons doing that, you know, that are starting to move in that way. And I think, you know, we'll have to see, we'll have to see where it goes. But it's the passion that whoever's doing it, you know, and if I look back at what was done, you know, it was four of us all having our own passion.
[00:15:59] Anthony Mascolo: Blended together that made it what it was, you know, I think it's very difficult to say I would have done all of that Myself, you know, it'd be very different if I was on my own I think it'd be different if my brothers wouldn't have on their own as well. 
[00:16:10] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah. 
[00:16:12] Anthony Mascolo: You know it made what it was
[00:16:14] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. That was the strength of it. You all had unique talents and combined it turned into something that was, uh, very special. And, and that led to, uh, Tigi, uh, the product brand, which was a You know, a huge powerhouse in the, in the world of products and inevitably, you know, you had to sell it or you did sell it, you chose to sell it.
[00:16:36] Antony Whitaker: Um, and I often reflect on brands that are developed like by entrepreneurs, you know, the hairdresser who builds a brand like you guys did with Tigi, and then you sell it out to a, uh, a big multinational, which, which I think is that there's an inevitability about that because that's how you get your payday.
[00:16:55] Antony Whitaker: Some of those brands succeed. Others don't under the under the banner of the multinational. And I often wonder, why is it that some succeed and others don't? What, what's your sort of take on that?
[00:17:08] Anthony Mascolo: Well, the, you know, the hairdressing business is very unique and, you know, when we built the product company, it was very much attached to the trade and to the hairdresser. So it was an extension to our salons, our academies, our clients, our schools, and, and, and then products. So it all intermixed into everything that you were doing.
[00:17:28] Anthony Mascolo: And the more we were teaching, the more people wanted to buy into the whole concept and idea so you sold products. Products were a great way of selling. You know, get people wanting education, but the more it went on and more it went on, like today, you know, you can get a lot of free education and there's tons of it, but what you do is not really free if they have to buy products or, you know, it all worked in a way, but it was very much geared
[00:17:50] Anthony Mascolo: to the profession and to the hairdresser. And I think this was instilled in us that we, you know, as much as it was a lot harder and you had to work a lot, lot more for less, you know, you know, how you sold it and how it worked, you know, because if you sell direct to the clients and you have all the middle situations out of the way, you make a lot more money, but we were very true to what it meant.
[00:18:13] Anthony Mascolo: What it was, but you know, it comes a day when, you know, it's owned by not just myself, but, but my brother and my brother really, you know, it's, it works in Italian family works, you know, the oldest
[00:18:23] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, yeah,
[00:18:24] Anthony Mascolo: and, um, you know, it was a decision that was made, we were moving ahead. We were having different difficulties trying to get color out there because of the big companies and, you know, pretty much it stopped you, they pretty much could stop you and then it could go backwards.
[00:18:40] Anthony Mascolo: So you needed, uh, you know, an investment, you know, you needed someone New to Puff and, and for, I would say for 10 years it was, it was great, but I like anything, it really, I think their decision was to go more to the public and, you know, which is not a bad one, you know, and I, and I think, but it was obviously not what we did.
[00:18:59] Anthony Mascolo: You know, we had a team, you know, it was about, uh, people doing hair, going loud, building salons, and, you know, which is a long way round. And I'm sure they looked at that and said, you know, it's a pretty long way around this. Let's do it the way we know. And the way they know is obviously they sell millions of products to everyone, you know, from lots of different things.
[00:19:19] Anthony Mascolo: And I think really then, you know, once you've sold, it's not yours. So you're there to help and assist. The direction they want to take and I think, you know, after, you know, a couple of years, you get used to that and you, you work with that and, uh, you know, and then eventually decide, okay, do I like this or I don't, but I think, you know, the decision obviously is there.
[00:19:40] Anthony Mascolo: So, depending how you look at it, you know, for them, there is something in a different way, you know, for us, it was a product for the trade. So in the trade, it's probably gone a different direction. So, you know, but everything has to stay, you know, I think, you know, and, you know, it's, it's done. It was amazing for us.
[00:19:58] Anthony Mascolo: And it great times.
[00:19:59] Antony Whitaker: Uh, was huge.
[00:20:01] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, yeah, I mean for young hairdressers, you know, that are maybe just entering the industry now, they don't Understand just quite how big it was because it just was everywhere.
[00:20:11] Anthony Mascolo: I think today hair is different as well. You know, you know, what it represented, what it did was very much the 90s and the beginning of the, you know, thousands, 2000s. And it was, it had a real big impact, you know, through what it did to the hair and obviously what we were doing to the hair and, you know, that creative side.
[00:20:31] Anthony Mascolo: It was, it was a very fun, young kind of thing going on and it was a perfect timing. 
[00:20:37] Antony Whitaker: Okay, uh, you have always been regarded as being the sort of creative.
[00:20:44] Antony Whitaker: You know, powerhouse behind the brand, um, and your brothers had different roles, um, and your four tables of photography, the creativity, et cetera. But I think what a lot of people maybe underestimate and, you know, I, I really like to draw attention to it because I think that one of the things that you brought to it, which maybe didn't get the recognition that it should have is your qualities as a leader.
[00:21:10] Antony Whitaker: Uh, you personally and your qualities of building a team because you were always very adamant about the art team. It was about the team of people and you built a very strong team. So for people that are, you know, listening to this, watching this now, what would you say the keys are to building a successful team?
[00:21:33] Antony Whitaker: What are the keys to being a great leader?
[00:21:35] Anthony Mascolo: Well, I think, you know, whatever you want to lead, you need to be good at doing it yourself. You know, I think that's very important, and be confident, and learn, and have the rules that you make for yourself. You know, you've got the rules that you want to tell other people, you've got to do them too. And I think that's very important, but you know, I was taught, you know, I've got to say, it's not just something that comes along, you know, my brother was a great leader, all three of them were, you know, Tony is a fantastic, you know, what he did, how he, you know, just grew the business, you know, the franchising and the thing, and what, what, What we had when you do creative people want to be part of that and they want to be it's then Bruno, you know, taught me how you gather people and you make them feel part of it and you know, you make them be inspired and then, you know, not just tell people, but get to be part and share.
[00:22:24] Anthony Mascolo: And I think the thing I learned from Bruno was, you know, whatever you do, share it. So then you have to learn more and you have to do more. And I think really, he showed me also that, you know, he would give me the opportunity to do the hair instead of him doing it because he was the creative beginning, you know, he would let me do it, let Pat do it, you know, and different people that were there at the time.
[00:22:45] Anthony Mascolo: So he would share the, the, the. Creativity, you know, having given you the platform to be able to do something. And, and I think, uh, a lot of, you know, if you really look, there's a lot of people out there that it's their name, but you don't really see many other people within that brand or within their, their name that are doing stuff.
[00:23:03] Anthony Mascolo: It's all about them. And I think that's fine because that's how That works. But then when you're one of four brothers and you're all doing a different thing, you're all accepting that the other is doing great at what they're doing, you're not thinking you can do everything. And I think that kind of instills you then to grow that family and grow that family in, in creativity, which was my job, you know, get people involved.
[00:23:26] Anthony Mascolo: The only way to get better is to get them to do. And I think really that was taught to me. So being, being someone that shares what you do and, and, you know, you've got to be good at what you do and believe in it. And I, I think that. In turn, creates a good leader. But I think really the job was to create talent that would be there to do things that we needed for the academies, for the salons, for and create a standard that we all wanted and believed in.
[00:23:55] Anthony Mascolo: And I think that having that, you know, kind of strict plan in front of you, you know, makes you a good leader, you know, and giving people the opportunity.
[00:24:05] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, you've always acknowledged the role that Pat has. So yes, there's the four brothers, but then Pat also has always been your wingman. I mean, not just doing, you know, makeup and styling and hair and whatever. Um, you so obviously have a very strong relationship and you've been together a very long time.
[00:24:29] Anthony Mascolo: have. How long have we been together? 39? 40? I don't know, I'm 67 next week. And we were together when we were 20, 21
[00:24:40] Antony Whitaker: there you go. So yeah, that's a long
[00:24:42] Anthony Mascolo: so that's a long time.
[00:24:43] Antony Whitaker: So, so what's the key to that? Like, because you work together, obviously you're married
[00:24:47] Antony Whitaker: as well. What's the key to that success? 
[00:24:49] Anthony Mascolo: I found somebody that, you know, really loves me and I love her. And we're compatible in lots of things. She accepts all the things I can rubbish at, you know, all my faults. And, you know, she doesn't really have any faults. So, you know, I obviously accept her being great. So, you know, it's, uh, we're very lucky, you know, we're, we have fun.
[00:25:07] Anthony Mascolo: You know, the reason that we retired, you know, we, we're going to all the places that we went for work to go and have a look. We went to Japan, like we were saying earlier. And we went to Singapore. We've been to Singapore a few times, never seen it. So we went and stayed in that fancy hotel, with the boat on the top,
[00:25:23] Anthony Mascolo: all the trees, you know, and it was really a lot of fun.
[00:25:26] Anthony Mascolo: I think what we have is that, you know, well, you know, we love each other and I think really, we've been together. She's always been very strong in what? We do, you know, sometimes, you know, in, in the period of when we did it, you know, she took the back seat, but you know, that was because she was having kids and we were having children and whatever.
[00:25:45] Anthony Mascolo: So she was partly working, but mainly looking after the kids, but still always been involved in, you know, what we do, uh, right down to everything, really. I mean, you know, we do it together and I think we do it together. Because we love each other. No, we've been together a long time, and I couldn't be more grateful.
[00:26:07] Anthony Mascolo: Very lucky to have Pat and to have had us, you know, I mean, you get blessed for murder.
[00:26:13] Antony Whitaker: yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:26:16] Anthony Mascolo: No, she's been great, fantastic. And she is very inspirational, very talented
[00:26:19] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, I, I, I know she is and and she often doesn't get that acknowledgement for
[00:26:22] Anthony Mascolo: I mean, you remember, you know, she was doing all the, all the tricky ones that no one could do or wanted to do. Pretended they didn't want to do them, but couldn't do them. That was really funny.
[00:26:33] Anthony Mascolo: Well, you know, I, I think I give her as, as much as
[00:26:36] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, you do, you, you consciously
[00:26:38] Anthony Mascolo: I give her all
[00:26:39] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, no, no, she 
[00:26:41] Anthony Mascolo: I'll take some for
[00:26:42] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, she, she deserves it. I mean, I've been lucky enough to be a little bit behind the scenes with you at different events and shows, and I see just how much she does and has always done. So, uh, it's
[00:26:53] Anthony Mascolo: mean, you know, when, you know, when we were at Toni and Guy and we had a role, and then when we did Tigi, you know, we worked very closely together, we got the
[00:27:02] Anthony Mascolo: it's always been that we work together, you know, through, and then we started doing, uh, you know, she kind of forced me to do the photography, bought me a camera, you know, I used about a year later.
[00:27:11] Anthony Mascolo: She started then doing the makeup. So we will take in responsibility of the creativity that we wanted to do. And I think obviously the ideas were very close, you know, and she obviously, you know, loves me like I love her. So, you know, I think that's how we, we have that good relationship.
[00:27:29] Antony Whitaker: that's good. That's good. Okay. Um, so looking back, You know, you've sort of retired. You look back at this incredible career. It's good that you can enjoy that time now because you worked so hard for so long on the road.
[00:27:46] Anthony Mascolo: I mean, you know, when you, when you're doing something, you love, it's not really work, but if I really think about it, you know, since I was 14, I've been working seven days a week, you know, six, five days a year.
[00:27:56] Anthony Mascolo: Now I'm going to be in my brother getting us to do seminars on boxing day for years. He used to love it, but you know it, but you know, I wouldn't change a minute of it.
[00:28:08] Anthony Mascolo: It was a, such a great opportunity. You know, to be part of the whole thing that Toni and Guy created, you know, and be part of creating something to do with it, you know, I think it's uh, an incredible journey and, you know, very lucky to, you know, to be looking back and then, you know, enjoying it and still going.
[00:28:27] Anthony Mascolo: You're doing an amazing job, you know, over here in the rest of the world with the salons. America's doing great with the education. You know, you move on, you know. But I think for us, you know, as we moved on and we're working more with TIGI and Unilever, you know, it's a good time to say, you know, thank you very much.
[00:28:44] Anthony Mascolo: And, you know, you think, right, what do I want to do? Do what I did? No, I don't want to do that. I'd like to do some shoots, and it's fun. You know, do the magazine a little bit, which, you know, I've got here. And play with some of the ideas. But the passion that we had before was, you know, the drive, because we were all four of us together, going in the direction as brothers.
[00:29:05] Anthony Mascolo: And then all the team with you. You know, we had some fantastic people that have worked with us. very much. You know, and been part of, you know, the journey of Tony and Guy and teaching. And, uh, you know, you can only look back and say, yeah, wow, what a great journey.
[00:29:20] Antony Whitaker: there one particular career highlight when you look back at this, you know, incredible career you've had,
[00:29:27] Antony Whitaker: uh, and sort of think that was, uh,
[00:29:29] Anthony Mascolo: I think, I think there's been a few shows that have really, you know, wow, this has been really great and they really pull them off and people really love it.
[00:29:39] Anthony Mascolo: And then there's obviously winning the awards when you're really trying to, you know, So the early days of getting the awards was really good, you know, and it were, they were good, you know, obviously, personally, there's been lots of other things that, you know, me and pap enjoyed, but we've enjoyed those things together, you know, when, um, you know, I'm British, they were, they were interesting days because you're really at a point where you were, you know, your brain was going mad because you just wanted to do stuff to beat everybody and to be better.
[00:30:08] Anthony Mascolo: And I think that, that passion, obviously. You do it and you do it and you know, it's something you can remember and it's something that's new to you when it's happening. You know, it's not something, you know, people still have that passion. I still have the passion to enjoy everything that we've done and what we can do.
[00:30:24] Anthony Mascolo: But I think, you know, you do remember those as like, you know, the first experiences.
[00:30:30] Antony Whitaker: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, I want to throw this question at you. What do you wish you were better at?
[00:30:37] Anthony Mascolo: No, I wish I was better at sport. I wish I was more consistent with sport and, uh, you know, training. Yeah, I'll do it for a couple of months. Then I'll get fed up if I, you know, I wish I was better at that, but it's a bit late now, you know, 67, I can still do a bit, a little bit of sport and maybe I will kind of get myself, you know, so I do it consistently, but yeah, looking back, you know, I would have liked to have done more sport.
[00:31:05] Antony Whitaker: Okay. So looking forward, what, what's next? Last question.
[00:31:09] Anthony Mascolo: Oh, yeah, just going on holiday with my wife.
[00:31:12] Antony Whitaker: Life's a holiday.
[00:31:14] Anthony Mascolo: You know, going holiday with my wife, you know. Look, here we're at the library. My son does art, he does hair as well. He works with Paul Hamlin occasionally doing, you know, the fashion shows, which is great and he loves it. You know, he doesn't want to do hair every day.
[00:31:28] Anthony Mascolo: So he's doing his art and he's doing some great stuff. I'm very proud of him and that my daughters, you know, one's getting a PhD and she's about to finish that. And, you know, it continues, you know, to continue learning. My other daughters, you know, raised a beautiful granddaughter for us and she's amazing, you know?
[00:31:44] Anthony Mascolo: And so you couldn't be more. Grateful really for what's going on, you 
[00:31:48] Anthony Mascolo: know, and, uh, just enjoy that and, uh, try and spend more time, you know, when they were young, you know, we were busy, we were with them all the time, but, you know, we're with them even more, you know, now. So, you know, we took my daughter and my granddaughter to Japan.
[00:32:02] Anthony Mascolo: So, you know, they'll take my son to Los Angeles, you know, try and take them apart sometimes together, maybe twice a year together. You know, there will be a fight, obviously, there always is. And, but, the rest of the time, take one with you and then take the other, take the other. So it's,
[00:32:19] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Well, that's good.
[00:32:20] Anthony Mascolo: have some quality time with it.
[00:32:22] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. It's important. It's how many grandchildren have you got?
[00:32:25] Anthony Mascolo: Uh, one,
[00:32:26] Antony Whitaker: Just one. Right. Okay 
[00:32:28] Anthony Mascolo: yeah, it's one, you know, it's the one I got.
[00:32:31] Anthony Mascolo: She's great. Gorgeous. She's ten already. She's like a teenager nearly. Need another little one.
[00:32:37] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, maybe you won't have to wait that long. Um, whereabouts can people, where would you like to send people to check out, you know, what you're doing and stuff? Uh, are you
[00:32:47] Antony Whitaker: on social media? 
[00:32:48] Anthony Mascolo: Infringe. Go, go to Infringe. You know, I think Infringe is really, Just to finish off on that, you know, it was a project that we did because we wanted to do more shoots and kind of, you know, show people what we were doing. But then we discovered there was so much talent out there that we had to, you know, it was, it was unbelievable.
[00:33:05] Anthony Mascolo: And I'm not talking about, you know, the talent that I've been used to all my life doing hairdressing. It was everything but that, you know, they’re literally putting, no, we won't use any of that. We'll have a look at everything else. And then you all of a sudden got artists using hair as a medium and some really crazy stuff, but very innovative, very, you know, gutsy, you know, people with a, you know, with passion and a nerve.
[00:33:32] Anthony Mascolo: And I think that's and we thought, Oh, well, that'll run out really quickly because we call it anthropology and it's about what people did in the past. It doesn't seem to run out at all. People are just, you know, bombarding all this stuff with madder ideas all the time. And so we keep that going on.
[00:33:49] Anthony Mascolo: Infringe, you know, online. So, Infringe magazine, you know, they can see not necessarily what I'm doing, but what, you know, I was given great opportunities and I think Infringe is a good way of showing people what else other talent are doing. And, you know, occasionally we do the, the print, which is always lovely.
[00:34:06] Anthony Mascolo: This is the latest one with Paul Hamman, you know, and the cover and it's very thick. It's like a proper book, the wrong page to open.
[00:34:14] Antony Whitaker: I, I didn't realize you still did them
[00:34:17] Anthony Mascolo: Yeah, yeah, we do the print. It's great, you
[00:34:19] Antony Whitaker: right? Okay. I thought they were, 
[00:34:20] Anthony Mascolo: massive thing. Maybe I make a mistake. It's too heavy,
[00:34:22] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, Yeah, I thought you'd only gone online with them now.
[00:34:26] Anthony Mascolo: No, no, we, we have the, we have four now that we've done and we'll do another one in a year or so,
[00:34:31] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:32] Antony Whitaker: Good. Good. 
[00:34:32] Anthony Mascolo: you know, I've always, uh, I've always loved having it in print,
[00:34:36] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. And I, yeah, I agree with you. And I love the angle you've taken with that about the whole, um, what did you describe it as the anthropology of hair? So it's not about hair, hair for hairdressers or hair by hairdressers necessarily. It's about, um, Culture and, you know, the role that hair has in society.
[00:34:53] Antony Whitaker: So, uh, they can check that out on, uh, on Instagram at, uh, it's just in, in Fringe Magazine. Yeah, I'll put the, uh, I'll put the links to that on our website and in the show notes for today's podcast.
[00:35:06] Anthony Mascolo: Thank you
[00:35:07] Antony Whitaker: So if you're listening to this podcast with Antony and have enjoyed it, do me a favor and share it to your Instagram stories.
[00:35:14] Anthony Mascolo: Uh, and don't forget to subscribe and leave us a rating and review on the Apple podcast app. So to wrap up, Antony Mascolo, thank you for being on this week's episode of the Grow My Salon Business Podcast. very much. Lots of love from me and Pat.
[00:35:26] Antony Whitaker: Thanks, man.
[00:35:27] Antony Whitaker: Thank you for listening to today's podcast If you'd like to connect with us you'll find us at Grow My Salon business.com or on Facebook and Instagram at Grow My Salon business And if you enjoy tuning into our podcast make sure that you subscribe like and share it with your friends. Until next time this is Antony Whitaker wishing you continued success