Chain of Learning: Leadership Strategies for Transforming Culture, Developing People, and Getting Results

Overstepping ownership rarely looks like overstepping. It looks like moving things along.

You know how something could be improved, so you give your suggestion. Work gets done, progress is visible, but the person you were there to develop doesn't build the capability they need, and the improvement doesn't sustain.

Every change leader, manager, and executive does this at some point. And when we take on ownership of what isn't ours, we end up the bottleneck.

As a transformational change leader at Kaiser Permanente, Anna Pessah watches this play out every day with the internal consulting team she leads, and with the physician and operational leaders she supports.

We break down this challenge and share the practices to use instead. Leaders don't need to stop helping or teaching. It's about getting clear about what each person owns, and adjusting how you help based on what that leader needs in the moment.

When ownership sits in the right place, people grow, improvements hold, and you have the space to do what is actually yours to do.

You’ll Learn:
  • How to make ownership explicit from the start, by contracting up front and saying out loud which hat you're wearing, coach or consultant or teacher
  • Why leaders learn good coaching practices best by being coached, and how making your own practice visible lets others model it
  • Why the pull to step in gets stronger the more you care about the outcome
  • Why a new practice often swings too far one direction at first, and how to find the middle without abandoning it
  • When asking coaching questions stops being helpful, and how to be directive without taking over the thinking
ABOUT MY GUEST:

Anna Pessah leads the internal consulting team that oversees the operating system at the North Valley Service Area of Kaiser Permanente, where she coaches physician and operational leaders on strategy, management systems, and the behaviors that support a culture of improvement. She is an industrial engineer from the University of Michigan and an ICF-certified coach. Anna brings a blend of systems thinking, operational improvement, and leadership development to help leaders generate insight, turn goals into action, and build habits that stick.

IMPORTANT LINKS:
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:

03:16 Why change leaders struggle to keep ownership with leaders
05:22 When helping starts creating dependence
06:15 Building capability instead of becoming the bottleneck
07:12 Why doing more can make your job harder
09:23 Getting explicit about roles and ownership
11:25 Why new practices require reflection and adjustment
13:17 Making your leadership practices visible
16:03 How to give direction without taking over
22:16 What happens when leaders operate at the wrong level
24:05 The personal cost of staying in the weeds
25:30 Why helping can turn into overstepping
27:43 When coaching questions aren’t helpful
31:25 The power of listening—and leaving space
36:46 Why humility is essential to learning
38:18 Recognizing your own pull to control
39:06 Simple practices for keeping ownership where it belongs

Learn more and apply for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/

What is Chain of Learning: Leadership Strategies for Transforming Culture, Developing People, and Getting Results?

Chain of Learning® is the leadership podcast for leaders and change practitioners who believe that people, not tools, are the foundation of lasting results.

If you're working to transform your organization's culture, develop leaders at every level, and build teams that are capable, confident, and empowered to solve problems and innovate, this podcast is for you.

Hosted by Katie Anderson, award-winning author of "Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn" and globally recognized expert in people-centered leadership, Chain of Learning explores how leaders break free from the Doer Trap™, and create the conditions in their organization for success and build a vibrant culture where impact is exponential.

Each biweekly episode offers practical insights, reflective questions, and real-world examples to help you:

- Develop leaders at scale, not just one at a time
- Build high-performing cultures of continuous learning, grounded in psychological safety, trust, and empowerment, that thrive and grow
- Lead culture transformation and change leadership with intention
- Strengthen coaching culture, problem-solving, and leadership development across your organization
- Move from managers who focus on outcomes to leaders who develop people, improve performance, and get results

Grounded in human-centered leadership and adult learning practices, and informed by principles of the Toyota Way, Lean thinking, and operational excellence, Chain of Learning features conversations with influential thinkers and leaders shaping the future of leadership at scale and organizational learning. Past guests include Carol Dweck, Michael Bungay Stanier, Rich Sheridan, Barry O'Reilly, Steve Spear, Jim Womack, Gene Kim, and Larry Culp.

Subscribe and follow Chain of Learning® to deepen your impact. Share this podcast with your colleagues, fellow change leaders, and friends so we can strengthen our Chain of Learning together.

Join the conversation: ChainOfLearning.com
Katie Anderson’s website: KBJAnderson.com
Connect with Katie: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
Read Katie's Shingo Publication Award-winning book: LearningToLeadLeadingToLearn.com
Download the KATALYST™ Change Leader Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/Katalyst

Popular Episode Topics Include: Leadership Development, Developing Leaders at Scale, The Doer Trap, Coaching Culture, Building a Culture of Learning, Culture Transformation, Change Leadership, Leading Change, Change Readiness, Change Adoption, Stakeholder Engagement, Organizational Change, Lean Leadership, Lean Thinking, Operational Excellence, Toyota Way, Toyota Leadership, People-Centered Leadership, Psychological Safety, Building Trust, Leadership Coaching, Break the Telling Habit, Leader as Coach, Continuous Improvement, Kaizen, Organizational Learning, Problem-Solving Culture, Developing People, High-Performing Teams, Learning Organization, Executive Leadership, Strategic Alignment, Leading Without Authority, Influence, Leading Through Influence, Leadership Identity, Gemba Leadership, A3 Thinking, PDCA, Growth Mindset, Leader Development, Japan Leadership Experience, Learning to Lead Leading to Learn, Leadership Podcast