Frankenstein Final === Claire Fisher: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Carried Far, far Away, a podcast where we are watching and reading everything Carrie Fisher did during her short life and storied career. I'm Claire Fisher, Katie Marinello: i'm Katie Marineo Claire Fisher: and tonight we are talking about Katie Marinello: Frankenstein. Claire Fisher: No, not that one. Katie Marinello: Nor that one also not that one. Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: one you're thinking of? Absolutely not that one. Claire Fisher: Nope. Katie Marinello: Um, but first, hi. Claire Fisher: Hi. Katie Marinello: It's been a little bit of a break. Um, kind of a semi accidental season break because we had travel and work and Claire Fisher: Easter and finals and, Katie Marinello: Yes. All of those things. So we are back. Claire Fisher: I know Nora never gave up Katie Marinello: No, she never gave it back. I saw her last night and she was plugging our podcast as our number one fan, so, thank you Nora. So that does mean that I watched this movie, like, [00:01:00] I don't know, when we're mom and dad here? March two months, two, almost two months ago. Claire Fisher: A month and a half ago. Oh, Katie Marinello: Like, yeah. Claire Fisher: Huh. Alright, well, uh, would would you like me to refresh your memory with a 54 second plot summary? Katie Marinello: Please do, Claire Fisher: Ready to time me. Katie Marinello: um, go. Claire Fisher: Carrie Fisher plays Elizabeth, who has been raised in the Frankenstein family and is engaged to her brother Victor when Victor begins conducting mysterious experiments in a tower at his family's castle. Elizabeth writes to their childhood friend, he Henry Larval for help Figuring out what Victor is up to. Henry's idea of help is to assist Victor in his attempts to transplant a brain into the corpse of a hanged man and Katie Marinello: I. Claire Fisher: the result. After the creature attacks them both and escapes, Victor tries to bring himself back to sanity by planning his wedding. Meanwhile, the creature is attacked by startled neighbors, but educated by a blind man who stumbles upon after accidentally killing two robbers who attacked the blind man, as well as Victor's little brother, William and Justine, the governess. He finds Victor and asks him to [00:02:00] reanimate Justine to be his friend. Henry and Victor have separately decided that these experiments are immoral. However, the creature kills Elizabeth and Victor blows up the lab with both of them inside the end. Katie Marinello: Very good. 52. Claire Fisher: Alright, so. Katie Marinello: So Claire Fisher: It's more or less the story of Frankenstein. Katie Marinello: is it, Claire Fisher: Yeah. Well, so okay. For context, Katie Marinello: I've not ever read Frankenstein. I tried, I know I tried, but I um, I had just finished Dracula and I just couldn't do another pistol Mary novel. Um. Claire Fisher: what kind of novel? Katie Marinello: A slurry. Claire Fisher: , The letter writing type of novel? Katie Marinello: Correct. The kind where you have to write letters back and forth. I couldn't do it. I could not do another writing letters novel because Dracula, while I respect it, has so much [00:03:00] unnecessary back and forth and you just have to remind yourself that you're reading a novel for people who have never read Dracula. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: it's okay when she takes the garlic down. Anyway, so I have not read Frankenstein and I know that the popular version of Frankenstein with the Igor and the is not, um, well this is a really, it's good podcasting right there. Claire Fisher: Okay, Katie Marinello: I know that that's not in the book, but I didn't know how much of this was in the book. Claire Fisher: okay. So by contrast, fortunately I am someone with qualifications because one time mom introduced me on local radio as a Frankenstein Dramaturg. Katie Marinello: Really? Claire Fisher: Yes. Katie Marinello: had no idea. Claire Fisher: Mom was trying to put together a production of Frankenstein for a community theater. Katie Marinello: Oh yeah, Claire Fisher: we went on the radio to try to like, interested from actors to try Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: um, at that time had not [00:04:00] read the book, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: she introduced me as the Frankenstein expert. Katie Marinello: Okay. Great. Claire Fisher: see, I've been assigned to read and or watch Frankenstein, like assigned in a class at least five times in my life. Katie Marinello: Really? Claire Fisher: it once for fun. Katie Marinello: Huh? Claire Fisher: I've heard every possible interpretation of Frankenstein, the queer interpretation, the feminist interpretation, the fan theory where Victor has just lost his mind and is hallucinating the monster, Katie Marinello: Oh. Claire Fisher: tie, in theory, the theory embraced by the Vulcan on enterprise. I was once introduced as a Frankenstein expert, and I pulled off the radio interview is what I Katie Marinello: Right. Okay. Claire Fisher: interpretations and reinterpretations of this plot, and this is a bad one. Katie Marinello: Yes. Okay. I have not read the novel, not seen many of the other adaptations. I don't think I've ever seen like a straight Frankenstein adaptation. I've seen like young Frankenstein and like, you know, jokey Frankenstein's, monster Mash, that kind of thing. I too knew that this was a bad version. So turns out you didn't have to do all that [00:05:00] research to know this was a bad version. Claire Fisher: Yeah, I mean, it's okay. condensed it to the point that like major plot points, like why Victor Regrets creating this monster are Katie Marinello: Gone. Claire Fisher: over, but it's somehow also a slow and talky version of the story. So when the creature says he doesn't know why Victor wants to destroy him, I'm like, well, neither do I. Katie Marinello: Nobody does. Yeah, exactly. Claire Fisher: Victor doesn't know what Victor's doing. Victor is poorly written. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Is this a good time for reviews from Claire's mom? Claire Fisher: This is an excellent time for reviews from Claire's mom Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: Claire's, let's call that reviews from our mom. Katie Marinello: No. No. So for those of you who don't know us personally, I love referring to her as Claire's mom or your mom in conversation Claire Fisher: And she loved doing that even before. That's how they started introducing her. On our sister podcast, the Kurt Locker. Katie Marinello: yeah. No, I've, no, it, it has nothing to do with the Kurt Lacher much as I love them. [00:06:00] Um, Claire Fisher: predates that. Katie Marinello: completely. Yes. Uh, so to be fair, when I'm talking to mom, sometimes I refer to you as her daughter. So Claire Fisher: Okay. Uh, sometimes I do that when I'm talking to dad. Katie Marinello: what? Claire Fisher: I say, your other daughter Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: when I'm Katie Marinello: but not your mom. Claire Fisher: No, mom remembers your name. Dad's the one who mixes us up. Katie Marinello: Okay, so refuse from Claire's Bob. I felt the whole piece move so quickly. It's a complicated book, but they made it so thin. The script didn't give the character the transitions, but she, meaning Carrie found it and she managed to move through, through the story with emotional truth. It's not an emotional story, but you felt that she had an inner life. So I think I agree with her that Carrie is [00:07:00] possibly the only highlight of this movie. Claire Fisher: Yeah, Carrie, Carrie was obviously doing a job here. Um, okay. Let, let, shall we, shall we just quickly talk about the context a little bit of how this got made? Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: So this was a Showtime original movie Katie Marinello: was Showtime like brand new? Claire Fisher: yeah. June 17th, 1984. Showtime was really a few years old at this Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: Yeah. So one year later. Okay, so just for cultural context, Cirque de Soleil was founded on June 16th. This aired one day later. Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: where we are in the milieu. The top movies in America when this was made were Ghostbusters Indian Jones and the Temple of Doom Gremlins and Star Trek three, Katie Marinello: Okay. Those are all, those all hold up more or less Claire Fisher: And goes to show that there was sort of an appetite for like monster movies going on at the time. Katie Marinello: gremlins. Claire Fisher: Terminator came out later in the year, gremlins was [00:08:00] out, before making Terminator. James Cameron had done like Parama three or something like that. The thing was a year and a half old at this point, you know, so like there were a few things out there in the milieu that made, have made Showtime think, Hey Monster movie based on a public domain book. Why, why not? Right? Katie Marinello: It's free. Why not? Claire Fisher: I found a, little con more context on the website, 1000 misspent hours. So thank Katie Marinello: I saw that one when I was Googling around as well. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Scott Ashland, explained that Showtime had a quote intermittently ongoing series of stage to screen transplants unquote, and notes that this version of Frankenstein is actually a play, by Victor Jella, which, was brought to Broadway. Um, Katie Marinello: Oh God. Claire Fisher: and got hooted off the stage on its official opening night after 29 troubled preview performances, unquote. Katie Marinello: 29. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: [00:09:00] lot of preview performances. Claire Fisher: and it didn't really go well. Katie Marinello: No, they must have been changing a lot of things and extending the previews. Claire Fisher: the play was one of the most expensive flops in Broadway history. It Katie Marinello: Ooh. Claire Fisher: $2 million in 1981. Which is $7.02 million. Now, Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: it was described in the New York Times by reviewer Frank, rich as quote, a talkie stilted mishmash that fails to capture either the gripping tone of the book or the humorous pleasure of the film, unquote. Katie Marinello: I, yeah, that. Yeah. That sums it up Claire Fisher: This flop was notorious enough that it got a 40th anniversary in the New York Times, in which it's, it's script writer. Ella was still defending it. He said, quote, it was never a failure in our minds. Katie Marinello: in our minds. Who's us? Claire Fisher: So apparently what was wrong was that, think about like some of the set pieces in this Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: like the, the castle and the Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: blowing up [00:10:00] at the end. They tried to do that all on stage with 1980s special effects technology Katie Marinello: Oh, interesting. Claire Fisher: went massively over budget and to the end, the set. was so overwhelming that like, basically you couldn't hear the actors Katie Marinello: Oh. Claire Fisher: or like hear or see the Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: do you get invested in a play? Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: stay home and watch a movie on Showtime instead, right? Katie Marinello: So all that happened, and then Showtime thought, yes, that version, Claire Fisher: okay. So Showtime being 1-year-old was looking for something to adapt that they didn't have to pay a lot Katie Marinello: right? Claire Fisher: they bought the rights to the script and as noted on 1000 misspent hours, they shot on location at a genuine castle in Yorkshire, England. Uh, the, the book is set in Switzerland, so I don't know why they picked Yorkshire, but, okay. Katie Marinello: Because that's where the castle was. Claire, come on. Claire Fisher: Yeah. The cast is what, as Ashlyn says, quote, A mix [00:11:00] of Joing British character actors and name stars whose reputations conveniently exceeded their asking price. Yes. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: And I think that's a good encapsulation of Carrie Fisher's career, unfortunately. Claire Fisher: unfortunately. But I'll note, think about what cable TV is now, like prestige television, like the kinds of things that Showtime makes Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: has made in the last like 25 to 30 years. 'cause I mean, they've had a, a number of hits. I mean, Stargate SG one Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: original, right? For the first Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Uh, but in 19 Katie Marinello: one of my favorites. Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: great, great show. But they didn't have a lot of money in 1984 and they weren't yet a name. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: So this was an early effort. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Gotta put something up there. Claire Fisher: And it doesn't Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: It doesn't work in the least. It's, it's pretty much terrible. And I know this is a small thing, but like, I kept getting so annoyed every time a woman had to walk quickly in this movie. [00:12:00] She like hiked up her skirts. All the Katie Marinello: Mm. Claire Fisher: like her knees Katie Marinello: she wouldn't have done. Claire Fisher: which is completely period inappropriate. You would not hike up your skirt unless you were like tripping on stairs in Victorian era England. which this is implied to be Victorian era. 'cause even though the book is set in the 1780s, they're like talking about Darwin and stuff. So I Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: set in the 1870s. , But it just like that to me like just rang. So they obviously didn't want the costume designer to have to put in extra work hours cleaning the costumes because they couldn't afford that. And so instead they were having people be inaccurate about the way they wear clothing. And that just speaks to a certain lack of caring, right? at least a lack of money, which is practically the same thing when it comes to producing Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: shows. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: So it, it just doesn't come together. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: [00:13:00] together. Katie Marinello: So should we talk about it at all, or, Claire Fisher: yeah. We can talk about it. Katie Marinello: Well, let's talk about some actors first. So, very brief. Most of these actors are like, like you said, character actors. So like their faces are known, but there's not like one thing they're really known for necessarily. So Robert Thomas Powell, who plays Victor Frankenstein, he was known, for the title role roles in Mailer, M-A-H-L-E-R and J, and Jesus of Nazareth, and for his portrayal of secret agent Richard Hanney in the 39 Steps. And its subsequent spinoff television series. He was nominated for. Best actor bafta, for Jesus of Nazareth, and he won a Best Actor award at the Venice Film Festival for performance in the film imperative in 1982. Michael, Claire Fisher: Jesus of Nazar. Katie Marinello: I'm sure you have, Michael Cochran, who played Henry. , His face is very familiar to British television viewers. He's been in pretty much every long running [00:14:00] mainstream British television show since the 1970s, including wings. Dr who where , he had two different appearances as diff as different characters. And then Terrence Alexander, who played Alphons Frankenstein was an English film and television actor for six decades. He's best known for his role as Charlie Hungerford in the British TV Drama Berg Rack, which ran for nine series on BBC one between 1981 and 1991. Then David Warner, who played Creature, was an English actor who worked in film, television and theater. His lanky, often haggard appearance lent itself to a variety of villainous characters as well as more sympathetic roles. He received two nominations for outstanding supporting actor Ity series Emmys for his roles as Reinhard Hendrick in the NBC Mini Series Holocaust. And as Po PP pos Falco in the ABC's miniseries, messa and he won that one Claire Fisher: Are we thinking that [00:15:00] they counted this role as villainous or sympathetic? Katie Marinello: both. Uh, probably this role did not come up when they were writing this Wikipedia page. Graham McGrath, who is William Frankenstein. His first appearance was in a TV commercial for Colgate toothpaste as a 6-year-old. His first major film world was the Loyal Titch in the 1983 Fantasy Adventure film Kroll. And as the 10-year-old Peter the Great, in a 1986 mini series, he played Tom Pi in episode six of the BBC's 1987 adaptation of John LE's, the Perfect spy, et cetera, et cetera. He's still active. He's been active pretty much the whole time, and he's made the transition from child to adult actor, primarily in England. Okay. All right. Let's talk about the film, because I guarantee there's not a single person listening to us right now of the, like, five people that listen to us who's seen this movie so, well, maybe if mom and dad figure out how to use [00:16:00] podcasts again, um, because they, Claire Fisher: podcasts. Katie Marinello: I don't know, but have you noticed that every week they ask us to send them the link as if they don't know how to use a podcast? Claire Fisher: Dad likes to get texts from us so soon. Katie Marinello: Okay. So if mom and dad managed to listen to this episode, they have seen it because they watched it with me. God bless 'em. So we should probably talk about the plot, such as it is. Claire Fisher: so let me just say, I noticed straight away play was an adaptation of the book, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: not the much more famous movie. Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: important because the book is in the public domain. The movie is not yet, it's not even today, and Katie Marinello: right, Claire Fisher: wasn't 40 years ago. Katie Marinello: right. Claire Fisher: there are certain things they were hoping copyright office might not notice Katie Marinello: okay. Claire Fisher: by blending things in. Katie Marinello: So let, let's just say, when you say the much more famous movie that came out, when Claire Fisher: okay. [00:17:00] 1930, Katie Marinello: Uhhuh, Claire Fisher: a starring Boris Karloff yeah. Um, not have Igor in it, does not have a monster with his arms up going. Ooh. I mean, the monster goes Ooh. But he doesn't have his arms up in that one. His Katie Marinello: Does he have little thingies coming out of his neck? Claire Fisher: Yes, he does. Katie Marinello: Okay. So that's where that started. Okay. All right, Claire Fisher: arms go up in the, the third. Oh God, I'm, I sound like such a geek. Okay. There Katie Marinello: don't stop now. You've been a geek for 34 years. Claire Fisher: then there was bride of Frankenstein, then there was son of Frankenstein. And in son of Frankenstein, he goes blind because somebody shoves a, a torch too close to his eyes in an attempt to scare him off. And because he's blind, he navigates by groping with his hands, which is where we get the Frankenstein walk Katie Marinello: Oh my God. Claire Fisher: Yeah, Katie Marinello: So every time a Frankenstein actor does that, it's ableist Claire Fisher: it absolutely is. Katie Marinello: rude. Claire Fisher: All right, so [00:18:00] the book, Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: which was written in the 18 teens and set in the 1780s, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Has Victor be like a weirdo loner who's away from his family going to medical school and in his dorm room effectively cooks up a creature. Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: They don't say how. Katie Marinello: oh. So there's none of the grave robbing. Claire Fisher: There's none now. Okay. The implication. See, if you were reading a book about a medical student in the 18 teens, you knew that there was grave robbing Katie Marinello: 'cause that would've been the norm. Yeah. Claire Fisher: how great how medical students used to get corpses for experimental purposes. Katie Marinello: Right. Or educational purposes. Claire Fisher: Yeah, she didn't have to say Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: When they made the movie 120 years after that, they made it textual to up the creepiness factor. And also because of historical accuracy that Victor [00:19:00] Frankenstein is absolutely experimenting on corpses. The movie also tacked on a happy ending, Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: of for no reason at all. The haze code was not yet in effect. So there wasn't like a requirement for a happy ending. I guess James Whale just wanted one. I don't know. Katie Marinello: And people get happy when there's like a kiss at the end. Claire Fisher: Yeah. It ends with a toast to the House of Frankenstein, As I said before, I say again here, here. Claire Fisher: which they have in this movie, in this version. The 1984 Katie Marinello: During the dinner party? Claire Fisher: Yeah. A toast, A toast to the House of [00:20:00] Frankenstein. Time to the loving memory of its mother, to the happiness of its children. And to the bright promise of its future. The House of Frankenstein, Frankenstein, Frankenstein. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Okay. Claire Fisher: borrowed a line Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: movie. Katie Marinello: Mm. I see what you're saying. Claire Fisher: the grave robbing from the 1930 movie. They borrowed the idea that lightning is involved in reanimating, this monster Katie Marinello: That's not in the book either. Claire Fisher: The book specifically has Victor, who's narrating tell the person he's talking to. I'm not gonna tell you how I did it 'cause then you'll try. Katie Marinello: Oh. Claire Fisher: However extra textually Mary Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: um. Said that one of her inspirations for the book was, Galvin, the French scientist for whom Galvanism was named Galvin, had [00:21:00] experimented with a dead frog's leg and an electrode and had proved that muscles contract based on electrical impulses, Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: discovery and has lots of cool implications for the future. But, that's where James Whale got the idea, oh, it should be lightning reanimate. This Katie Marinello: Hmm. Claire Fisher: was interested in electrical experiments Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: writing this book, but Katie Marinello: she, I mean, she's brilliant. Honestly, she didn't, she made it so that she didn't have to, explain any of this. Which you can do in a book and is less successful in a movie. Claire Fisher: yeah. So not every adaptation, not every film adaptation goes for the lightning Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: the ones Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: an earlier one from, I believe, 19. 16 that has like a chemical vat that the monster comes out of. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Well, that's just every superhero ever and super villain. Claire Fisher: Well maybe 'cause some early superhero were [00:22:00] written by people who had seen the 19 teens Katie Marinello: Right, right. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Everything's all connected. And the other thing I will note is like in the book, Victor ever sees the monster. Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: ever interacts with the monster Katie Marinello: oh, Claire Fisher: and everything we know about the Monster's crimes are Victor's version. book is like a, a story within a story format. A. Sea captain on an Arctic exploration voyage finds a guy who's seemingly lost in the wilderness and dying of hypothermia. And after rescuing him, he says, hi, I am Victor Frankenstein. I'm not lost. I'm chasing my monster. Katie Marinello: okay. Claire Fisher: say, what monster? So Victor starts to tell, explain the story, and then story within a story tells the story of how he grew up with a foster sister. He was gonna marry her. They said, just go away to medical school first, so you'll be able to earn a living when you get back. He went away to medical school. He was living alone. Working alone, made this monster alone, panicked when the monster came to life. the [00:23:00] next day, Henry Larval showed up to start his university studies and found Victor in what was called a brain fever, what we would today call like a psychotic break. This introduces, as I said earlier, there is an interpretation of the book where Victor's just lost his Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Is hallucinating this monster throughout, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: It's left somewhat ambiguous. The like, sea captain thinks he sees a monster at the Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: But because of the structure of the story, it's not completely clear if that might also be an imaginary character. Katie Marinello: captains also tend to hallucinate things. Yeah. Claire Fisher: they do. Katie Marinello: Yeah. I mean, you're, you're isolated on a boat in the Arctic and somebody's telling you a scary story. You might start seeing the scary story. Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. And in the book, the Monster's, murders are all intentional Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: So at first he tries to befriend people, but they all reject him Katie Marinello: right, Claire Fisher: he's a creepy looking monster. They don't really go into details of how exactly he's creepy in the book. They just say [00:24:00] he's unusually large. But he must look like a reanimated corpse, otherwise, why are people panicking? Right. Katie Marinello: right. Not necessarily green. Claire Fisher: No, he's not green. He's definitely not green. 'cause he passes as a normal human at a distance. Right? Um, he, he's also worth noting the 1930 movie is black and white, so he's not green there either. Katie Marinello: Right, right. Claire Fisher: Then in the movie, the 1930 movie, James Whale had kind of an interesting career, but without going way off the track, let me just say he had a lot of sympathy for all his monsters Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: movies. He decided to insert a scene where the first murder is an accident. Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: In other words, when the creature is kind of lost in the world, having been shown nothing but cruelty and rejection, he meets a little kid who wants to play with him and they're throwing flowers into a river he thinks, oh, this is fun. Throwing things in the river and throws the little girl in the river [00:25:00] and she Katie Marinello: Uh, yeah. Claire Fisher: And then the townspeople are after him. And the subsequent murders are, self-defense. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: This movie tried to square the circle and not very successfully, I Katie Marinello: No, Claire Fisher: 'cause he's neither is trying to kill anybody nor is taking responsibility for anything. Nor is he really necessarily reacting to rejection Katie Marinello: right Claire Fisher: in every case. He, he a little bit is, Katie Marinello: at the very beginning. Right. Okay. So let's, okay, Claire Fisher: yeah. So anyway, I, I, Katie Marinello: so this, this version of the movie Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: starts with a man being hanged, which is an interesting choice. So it doesn't even start in the castle, right? It starts with the corpse that will eventually become part of the reanimated creature. Then we go to Henry showing up at the House of Frankenstein, Claire Fisher: yeah. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: saying, oh, Victor's been locking himself in the Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: weird experiments. You have to talk to him. And I'm kind of thinking, honey, why don't you, uh, why don't you go [00:26:00] into the tower? About a year ago he made the tower and some kind of laboratory, a place we could work without disturbance. Now he spends nearly all his time up there. I hardly ever see him, even as his fool brought up at the servants. Sometimes he works all night. He used to share his work with me, but now it's all become so strange and secret. Katie Marinello: Didn't she say? I thought she said that she like was trying to get through to him and, but I guess she didn't go into the tower. Claire Fisher: she does later, like, she, Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: up in the middle of the night and like listens at the door and then later on she goes into the lab. I was like, if that was on the table, Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: that in the first place? Katie Marinello: Well, we don't know that she didn't, but we just know that he's not communicating with her. He's kind of withdrawn and he's spending all his time up in the tower. Claire Fisher: but he does play with his little brother before bed. Katie Marinello: Yeah, Claire Fisher: So like he's not a weirdo loner the way he is in the book. Katie Marinello: right. Is the little brother in the book? Claire Fisher: Yes. And Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: from the [00:27:00] 1930 movie, which means a lot of adaptations that are based on the movie. Katie Marinello: Don't have him. Okay. Yeah, there was a lot, like, a lot of trying to figure out who all these characters were at first for me because, it kind of seems like the kid is young enough to be, Elizabeth and Victor's son, and then it's like, oh, it's his brother, blah, blah, blah. And then there's all the, exposition about how she's lived there her whole life and was basically groomed to marry her brother, as you said, in your 54 second opening, Claire Fisher: Believe me, that's even worse than the book. Katie Marinello: I'm sure. And that Henry was like their childhood friend and whatever. Now are they both surgeons or does Henry have a different specialty? I can't remember. Claire Fisher: In this movie, Henry and Victor are both surgeons and when Henry goes to try, okay. Your childhood best friend's acting very strange. Your childhood best [00:28:00] girlfriend begs you to try to figure out what's going on. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: goes into the lab Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: like a weird moment where like, there's an oddly framed shot where it looks like they're gonna kiss each other and I'm kind of like, oh, that would be a, a new Katie Marinello: That would be a, a new, a new take. Yeah. Uh, the, uh, Claire Fisher: don't do it. Katie Marinello: yeah. Claire Fisher: And Victor's actually excited to show Henry Wood. He's invented. I think I have discovered the very cause of life itself. I believe you to be a good man. A brilliant son is capable of anything but. God creates life. You have enormous skill, Henry. You always have. All you lack is imagination. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: They, Katie Marinello: And Henry's like, this is horrible. I'm going to help you. Claire Fisher: yeah. So, um, this is sacrilegious. Okay, I'll [00:29:00] help because Katie Marinello: could you? All right. Well, Claire Fisher: So who's that friend in your life, Katie? Katie Marinello: uh, you, let's be honest. Claire Fisher: Wait, am I Henry or am I Victor? Katie Marinello: Uh, I think it depends on the circumstances. I think either of us could be either of them at any time, but the other one would probably jump in and help while saying the whole time, this is a really bad idea, Claire Fisher: Yeah. In all fairness, this right here really a bad idea. Katie Marinello: truly a horrible idea. Claire Fisher: Pro tip, , if your friends try to pressure you into helping them, reanimate a corpse, tell a trusted adult or maybe at least put up some sort of token resistance before you help them. Katie Marinello: And what is Victor's like? Excuse. He like tries to talk him into it somehow. Right? Claire Fisher: Yeah. He says, with or without you, I will proceed. Come with me as a scientist, right? With or without you, [00:30:00] Henry, I will proceed. Katie Marinello: Yeah. There's no like, oh, this will be good for humanity because X, Y, Z. It's just like, come on, we're scientists. We do stuff. Claire Fisher: Yeah. And, um. Come on. We're scientists. We do stuff and a stuff a, a a thing they do. Katie Marinello: They do a thing. Yes. Claire Fisher: Weirdly though, this is the slowest reanimation scene in any version of Frankenstein that I've ever seen, there's closeups of them screwing the corpse to the table. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: I, I mean, with a screwdriver came out wrong. There are closeups of them restraining the corpse to the Katie Marinello: So there are bolts in this one. They're just not out of his neck. Claire Fisher: Um, there's like intermediate, like while they're setting up for this, Elizabeth is like listening at the door 'cause she woke up. 'cause this is a dark and stormy night. Katie Marinello: Yes, Claire Fisher: And then they somehow do the, it's a live moment twice. It's Alive is from the thirties movie, Katie Marinello: Uhhuh Claire Fisher: the, oh God, it's [00:31:00] Alive. Reaction is, is from the book. Katie Marinello: and they do both. Claire Fisher: tried to do both. They say, it's alive. I can feel its pulse. It's alive, Henry. I can feel a pulse. My God, the man is a lie. That's just weakening. I can barely feel [00:32:00] it. Claire Fisher: Then it stops moving and they're like, no, no live. Damn. You live. And then there's another lightning strike and it does live. And I'm like, well, if it was that easy live, damn, you live okay. Yeah, I Katie Marinello: Yeah. Okay. Claire Fisher: up, I'm up. I said I was up. Katie Marinello: And I believe this is true to the text, but there has been no thought of what comes next, right? Like there's no, like, okay, we did it. There's no plan. There's just sheer panic. Claire Fisher: So I mentioned the, many, many interpretations of the story, and one of the ones is that it was actually a metaphor for Mary Shelley's postpartum depression, which Katie Marinello: Oh, because there's a child, and then you don't know what to do with it. Yeah. Okay. Claire Fisher: Mary, she keep in mind she was 19 writing this Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: had one kid. No, she had already had one baby die Katie Marinello: Mm Claire Fisher: and had Katie Marinello: [00:33:00] mm. Claire Fisher: to a second during which she nearly died. so, you know, she, this was a teenager. She was a mother, but she was still a teenager who had been through a lot who Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: Right. Katie Marinello: to mention having to put up with Lord Byron for a weekend. She'd been through a lot, is what I'm saying. Claire Fisher: she ran, Aw, she left her first husband for, for Percy Shelly, who then wanted to sleep with Lord Brien while they were all on vacation together. So, yeah. Katie Marinello: So Mary Shelly went into her bedroom and invented science fiction. Claire Fisher: Yes. Drop mic. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Yeah. So Claire Fisher: exactly what Katie Marinello: none of our criticism of this movie has anything to do with Mary Shelley, who is by all accounts, a certified badass. Claire Fisher: absolutely. And I was so mad when they did her dirty on Star Trek Enterprise. Katie Marinello: Okay. So, all right, so baby comes alive. No one knows what to do with it. Unfortunately, baby can Uh, yeah, [00:34:00] baby can talk, which is. Good. True to the book and not to the popular, a adaptations of said book. And then he runs away, right. Claire Fisher: He attacks 'em, runs away, jumps over the ramparts, jumps off a bridge to get away from Henry and Victor. Katie Marinello: Who are trying to do what exactly. Restrain him. Claire Fisher: I, I guess, Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: and then Victor, the massive drama queen is telling Elizabeth the next morning, all the work I've been doing for the next last few months, is she for nothing. And I'm like, you have total proof of concept Katie Marinello: Oh. 'cause he assume, or he kind of hopes slash assumes that he drowned. Right. Claire Fisher: Yeah. But like, get yourself another corpse. Katie Marinello: And do it again. Yeah. Claire Fisher: do it a second time. Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: or a drama queen? Katie Marinello: right, right. Peer review here, right? Like, you have to be able to replicate the experiment. Claire Fisher: I mean, yeah, and or at least write down your results. Katie Marinello: Right, right, right. So, I mean, he's invented, he's discovered the secret to life and apparently it's lightning. And [00:35:00] he's just given up, which, okay, so creature runs away. Claire Fisher: And tries to ask someone for help Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: but gets stabbed. Katie Marinello: Right, they're, they're scared of him. 'cause he's not typical Frankenstein looking, but scary looking. Claire Fisher: he is badly burned from the lightning. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: of just seems like someone who's having a problem, Katie Marinello: Right. Well, I mean, he sound, he talks kinda slow, right. 'cause he is just learning the language. He is. Maybe bigger right. Taller right. But like, kind of uncoordinated. So, I mean, it could easily just be like a metaphor for mental illness. Claire Fisher: Yeah, it's interesting. So he finds the blind man, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Who has no problem with his appearance because he can't see him. Claire Fisher: There's a blind man's cottage in several versions of the story. The difference being that, in some versions, he doesn't know there's anybody watching him, and Frankenstein just figures out how [00:36:00] to act like a person by watching this guy go through his life. Katie Marinello: Oh, very creepy. I like it better this way. Claire Fisher: And this version Delacey has a stranger at his door, apparently mute, apparently, disfigured and is immediately like, oh, come sit by the fire. No one will hurt you. Poor creature. That's better. Now give me your hands. Hmm. No, no. Don't be afraid. My hands are as close as yours. That's better now. Ah, sort. Feel warm again. Warm. Ah, poor a creature. What has happened to you? Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: show you how to use a spoon. And he even says, oh, was someone cruel to you? Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: shall learn everything again in time. So like Delacey, who apparently is a retired school teacher, he apparently assumes this is someone who has like a traumatic brain Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: a, a traumatic incident or may have some sort of mental illness. He doesn't immediately assume monster. And he [00:37:00] doesn't immediately assume like developmentally disabled Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: from his asylum, Katie Marinello: right, right, right. Yeah. Claire Fisher: goes, straightforward. Let's see if we can help you, You should stay here and I will be your tutor and you will be my friend. Hmm. Friend. Yes, friend. Katie Marinello: Right. How do we figure this out? Yeah. And so he teaches him to read right? He teaches him to use a spoon, like you said, talk more fluently. Claire Fisher: Pray. Katie Marinello: Pray. Yeah. , And it's a beautiful thing if only it would be allowed to stay that way. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: But a less, some neighborhood du wells come to try to rob, the the house. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Yeah. They try to rob Rob the house and for [00:38:00] some reason they say, oh, you are Frankenstein's guy. Katie Marinello: Really? Claire Fisher: Yeah. That's the thing. So the Katie Marinello: weird. Claire Fisher: that's on YouTube has very bad audio. So like I rewound, I think they say, oh, you must be the guy Frankenstein's looking for. Katie Marinello: Okay. So he has been out looking for him. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Which is a drastic change from the book. Katie Marinello: I have a lot of questions about how he describes, said like what, who he was looking for. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: There's this large man that may not be able to speak Claire Fisher: With Katie Marinello: I'm looking for. Claire Fisher: burns. Yeah. He looks a lot like the guy they hanged. Katie Marinello: Oh yeah. Wait, doesn't somebody recognize him Claire Fisher: I, Katie Marinello: I think, I think the first set of people he like, they freak out because he is supposed to be dead. Claire Fisher: mm-hmm. Yeah. Katie Marinello: the kind of connection with the beginning. 'cause you see everybody kinda gathering around to watch him be hanged. Claire Fisher: Yeah. So wanted criminal, allegedly dead criminal, Frankenstein's monster. They try [00:39:00] to rob the guy who's been taking care of him. He kills them both and burns down the house, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: but he drags delacey's body out of the fire saying like, friend, speak to me. Friend, Katie Marinello: Hmm. Claire Fisher: he came back from the dead. Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: that dead people stay dead. Katie Marinello: right, right. Such a shame. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Though of course we're, we're giving it more emotional resonance than maybe it did in the movie, but Claire Fisher: no. This Katie Marinello: is Claire Fisher: adaptation. Our, our explanation better than that. Katie Marinello: yes. As, as has been the case with so many of these movies. So then he's kind of back to wandering, right? Claire Fisher: Elizabeth's trying on her wedding dress and she says to Justine, the governors who, Katie Marinello: Why don't you take, oh yeah. Take the dad and the, the little boy out for a picnic, right? Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: really a non-entity in this version of the story, but he is in a wheelchair. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: takes him out for a picnic, they're reading Jane Air, Alfonz falls asleep. The little boy and the dog wander [00:40:00] off and Katie Marinello: Yep. Claire Fisher: the Katie Marinello: Right. And then the creature, , like you said, it's not, he's not really reacting to him as a monster. He's, um, Claire Fisher: the dog Katie Marinello: The dog does. Yeah. But he's curious. And then he just hugs him to death. Claire Fisher: Yeah. So the creature says to William, oh, can we be friends? Katie Marinello: Right? Claire Fisher: yes. He tries to give him a hug and then he somehow crushes Katie Marinello: Yeah. It's not really clear. Claire Fisher: Yeah. And then Justine is looking for, William Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: a dead body, sees the creature, runs away screaming the creature tries to comfort her, and she like runs off a cliff in her confusion. Right. Um, sympathize 'cause as you will remember, I was once in a haunted hay ride and the zombie broke character to try to comfort me with a hug and a pod being offered a hug by a zombie. I damn deer fell off a cliff, which would've Katie Marinello: And refuse to ever go on a haunted hay ride again. Claire Fisher: I went once more 10 years later. [00:41:00] Um, but. I see this as an improvement over the novel because Justine's fate in the novel is horrified. Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: I hate it. Katie Marinello: Do you wanna tell it? Claire Fisher: Sure. In the novel, Justine, the monster frames Justine for William's murder, Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: the monster breaks William's neck and then, hides William's jewelry in Justine's, skirt pocket. Katie Marinello: oh Lord. Claire Fisher: Justine, who was, she's actually another foster sister to the Frankenstein children. She was like raised in the household, but as a servant rather than as a future bride. Um, Katie Marinello: but, okay. Claire Fisher: a different social status, who loved William can't defend herself in court, and Victor can't defend her either because Katie Marinello: Then he'd have to explain what he's been up to. Claire Fisher: he can't convince anyone that the creature is real. Katie Marinello: [00:42:00] Mm. Claire Fisher: No one else has seen it. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: how can you say there's a monster that hates me and my family and is seeking revenge on us? doesn't work. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: like wrongfully executed Katie Marinello: Jesus. Okay. Well, falling off a cliff altogether an improvement. Claire Fisher: and also over quicker, which if you're making a movie for Showtime and you don't have a lot of budget Katie Marinello: Or a lot of plot apparently. . So she falls off the cliff then. So then they discover both bodies. Claire Fisher: So William was looking for the dog. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: was looking for William. We swallowed this spider to catch the thigh. Katie Marinello: And then the dog comes back. Right. They only, the dog makes it back to Alphons. Claire Fisher: Yeah, Henry goes looking for William and Justine. And meanwhile the creature got directions to the house from William Katie Marinello: Right? Claire Fisher: in the lab. Katie Marinello: Right. Because he wants a companion. Right. So, so we didn't even talk about this. So he reads the Bible with the teacher and [00:43:00] decides he's Adam, Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: And that he wants an eve because it's not good for him to be lonely. Claire Fisher: That's from the book and from the Sequel Bride of Frankenstein. Katie Marinello: So he's hiding in the lab, ostensibly to convince Victor to make him a wife, right? Claire Fisher: Well, at first to try to figure out what the hell is going on. He called me dead. I'm not dead. They scream and run away from me. He said, your name, what are you to me? I created you. You. That is your body was dead, created dead. In the book of God, you know the Bible. I know of the Creator. You are my creator.[00:44:00] You are God. Claire Fisher: Like he says, they call me dead. I'm not dead. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: and run away from me. What are you to me? And oh yeah. 'cause you are my creator. yeah. And he's heard about God and Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: you created me. You're not God. Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: And then he says, you know, alright, well if you created me, do what God did and give me friends. Right. A wife. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Victor immediately starts saying that that's impossible, even before he finds out that this creature has killed William. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: at some point, Katie Marinello: Decided he was never doing this again. Claire Fisher: having worked really hard to make it happen in the first place, has Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: I'm not doing that again. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: was for some reason a reproducible, Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: experiment. Katie Marinello: Despite living in a castle, clearly having the money to pay grave robbers to get a female body if he really wanted to. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Oh, and guess what? Katie Marinello: Oh, there happens to be a female body. [00:45:00] How exciting. Just laid out for you? Claire Fisher: at the bottom of a Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Um, comes home screaming, Justine is dead, and God damn you, Victor, and says to Elizabeth, pray for him, Elizabeth. Pray for all of us and friends out screaming. And I'm like, you fucking drama queen. You helped. Katie Marinello: were there? Yes. You did nothing to stop it, nor did either of you seem to like follow up. Claire Fisher: You didn't report this, you didn't have Victor confined to an asylum. You didn't say like, Hey, maybe we shouldn't do that again. Katie Marinello: Or let's go find it. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: We just created something that's not gonna have any idea where it is or what's it it's doing and it's a lot stronger than any other man. Hmm. Claire Fisher: hmm. Katie Marinello: do something about that? Claire Fisher: I don't know. I don't know. That sounds like work. Katie Marinello: You're right. And we are Victorian era wealthy men's, [00:46:00] so we've got like some ball to attend or something. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: There's a nice fancy dinner for us to sit down to, Claire Fisher: We have to plan a wedding. Katie Marinello: right? Claire Fisher: Yeah. So finally, finally, finally, Elizabeth's like, okay, Victor, tell me what is going on Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: And he says. I've done is unforgivable. And I'm like, okay, when did you come to that conclusion? Because, Katie Marinello: Tell her what happened. Claire Fisher: and he says, please don't ask me to explain anything. What a dumb thing to ask for What have you done? Why did Henry say those things? Because what I've done is unforgivable. What have you done? I am responsible for the death of my own brother. No. Please, please, please don't [00:47:00] ask me to explain. Not yet. Just believe. That I will put an end to what I started. Katie Marinello: Such a cop out, right? Like, oh, we don't wanna have to explain anything. So we're just gonna have him say that, Claire Fisher: that. Not gonna Katie Marinello: that he is not gonna explain anything, so don't bother to ask him. Claire Fisher: Yeah. And meanwhile, the creature has found Justine's body and come back to the lab, and Elizabeth comes into the lab again. Why didn't she do that in the first Katie Marinello: she was trying to respect his space. 'cause you know, she's, she's a woman. Claire Fisher: yeah. Katie Marinello: She doesn't understand science. Claire Fisher: The creature and victor got into a tussle and the creature like choked victor in self-defense, but didn't kill him. And I'm like, you just killed a kid with a hug. Katie Marinello: I had the same exact reaction. I was like, wait, whoa, you don't know your own strength when it comes to hugging a kid, but when you're actually trying to, well plot armor, I guess Victor has plot armor. Claire Fisher: [00:48:00] Yeah. The creature and Elizabeth come face to face, Katie Marinello: mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: and the creature who mind you up till now has done nothing intentionally bad, right? only acted in self-defense or out of ignorance. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: Says to Elizabeth, I will be revenged scream. He must hear you scream. I will be revenged you. Ah, his companion, he too, will be alone. Scream. He must hear you. Scream. Scream, please scream. Katie Marinello: Oh yeah. Claire Fisher: And she doesn't, Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: her anyway. Katie Marinello: right. Claire Fisher: [00:49:00] And I'm like, okay, well you just, I mean, you were you, you had my sympathy until now. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Yeah. Claire Fisher: And then he starts crying and I'm like, okay, no, stop it with the. Katie Marinello: He doesn't understand his emotion. I mean, think about it. He's basically a baby and a teenager and an adult man all at one. None. None of those people are good at processing their emotions. So he's just like all over the place. Claire Fisher: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it doesn't come across as like poignant Katie Marinello: No, Claire Fisher: or anything. Katie Marinello: no. Claire Fisher: No, I, Katie Marinello: It comes off as chaotic because this whole thing is chaotic Claire Fisher: yeah. Katie Marinello: because the whole thing is like a 90 minutes long with commercials. Claire Fisher: then there's a final confrontation with Victor. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: barely worth mentioning except for the line. You created me, you gave me life. Why did you not give me a soul? I try to do good. I only do evil.[00:50:00] You gave me life. Why did you not give me a soul? Because I have not. God, Claire Fisher: and Victor's saying, because I am not God. And I'm like, this is a terrible time to come to that conclusion picture. You needed to think that through a year ago. Katie Marinello: Victor is the reason that you now have to like, submit your hypothesis ahead of time to the NIH? Claire Fisher: Yeah, there's like what the institutional review board is going to be invented in specific response to these events. Katie Marinello: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. You gotta post your abstract ahead of time. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Uh, Katie Marinello: Um, Claire Fisher: To borrow a line from your favorite actor ever. You were so busy figuring out whether you could, you never asked whether you should. Katie Marinello: and, you know, life finds a way.[00:51:00] Claire Fisher: And Katie Marinello: to state for the record that Jeff Goldblum was not my favorite actor ever. I just find him attractive. Claire Fisher: who's your favorite actor then? Katie Marinello: Kerry Fisher? Claire Fisher: Oh, okay. And Victor says. I'm damned and blows up the lab with both of them in it, which is not a great resolution. Katie Marinello: way to end it. Yeah. Claire Fisher: It's one way to end. I mean, in defense of all movie adaptations, the book really doesn't have an ending. Katie Marinello: Right. Because he is still share, he's still chasing him, right? Claire Fisher: No. He just dies of, like he caught his death while chasing this guy through the Arctic Katie Marinello: so he just told the story and then died. Claire Fisher: and then he dies. Katie Marinello: Okay, so this is kinda like that. They told the story and then they died. Claire Fisher: When they went to adapt it to a play, they were like, well, it needs an ending. And had it be like, okay, the, the monster jumps off a cliff. And then in the movie they said, okay, the monster gets trapped inside a windmill that the villagers set on fire,[00:52:00] Katie Marinello: Right? Claire Fisher: where the torches and Katie Marinello: Torches and, yeah. Pitchforks. Yeah. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Mind you, I have to point out here, the 1930 Frankenstein is 67 minutes long. This one is an hour and 20 minutes long, so it's actually 15 minutes longer and has less of a story. Katie Marinello: Right. Good point. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Claire Fisher: Yeah, Katie Marinello: As much as I believe that no movie deserves a third hour, because all movies should be 90 minutes long, you can do, like you said, you can do a lot in 90 minutes. This adaptation shows not to Claire Fisher: Yeah. didn't, Katie Marinello: just didn't. So there was not really much for us to learn from it. Claire Fisher: mm. Katie Marinello: There wasn't much of anything and yet as always, I found her delightful. Claire Fisher: I have to wonder again, who's Carrie's agent? Katie Marinello: Who is [00:53:00] Carrie's agent? Did she, did she not have one? Like she's Debbie Reynolds' daughter. Claire Fisher: Yeah, she came off, the Return of the Jedi really made a lot of money. In Katie Marinello: Right, right. Claire Fisher: She did Garbo Talk, which the same year, which is a smaller movie. probably a lower budget, but like an interesting character And then she also like spent a weekend in Yorkshire this for Showtime. Katie Marinello: we know that , she likes England, so Claire Fisher: yeah. Katie Marinello: she went to the British, actors college. Claire Fisher: , Like why did they go out and get her Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: for this? I dismiss it by saying a weekend, Elizabeth is in this movie, she just doesn't do very much. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: her doing things like singing for the family, serving like presiding at the table during a meal, tucking William, her, foster brother into bed, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: talking to Justine about wedding dresses, asking Henry to [00:54:00] help Victor, but like terms of plot impact, really not Katie Marinello: Yeah. Not a ton Claire Fisher: with the agency Katie Marinello: that she, except off screen. Like she started the plot, right? 'cause she wrote to Henry, but like, yeah, there's not a ton that she does autonomously. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Um, and then Claire Fisher: interesting Katie Marinello: she. Claire Fisher: so watered out. Katie Marinello: Her biggest moment of triumph, I guess, is not screaming Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: right, and, and kind of , stoically dying. So, yeah, Claire Fisher: It's not much a triumph, is Katie Marinello: no, it's not. It's nots, so. Claire Fisher: I will say that's true to the novel. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: She doesn't scream, Katie Marinello: Mm. Claire Fisher: which is a problem because Victor, who is literally in the next room, could have saved her if she'd screamed. Katie Marinello: Uh, that's better. Yeah. Claire Fisher: But guess [00:55:00] what? He sent her to bed knowing that the monster was on the way to attack them. He assumed the monster was after him and sent her to Katie Marinello: Uh. Claire Fisher: and so the creature catches her sleeping. So in the book, her death is actually like Victor is so self-centered that he can't even fathom that the Katie Marinello: the people he loves. Claire Fisher: that the monster would go after the people he loves. And so in the book, it's really like Victor's just childish Katie Marinello: Yeah. I would argue in this version, he is also childish, Claire Fisher: Yeah, well, in a different way. In this, in this version, he's the kid who won't give you an explanation. I won't, you can't make me. Katie Marinello: right? Right. Claire Fisher: But like that's supposed to be played for a bit of tragedy that he's so underdeveloped, he can't be a proper father to his monster Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: in. Well, okay. I know. Um, I've had way too many interpretations of Frankenstein shoved down my throat in my life. But one of several is that it was sort of a, examination [00:56:00] of the concept of a noble savage. Like, are we born evil or not? Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Are we born evil and need restraint? Or are we born good and turned evil by other people being evil around us? Right. And if you read it that way, the implication is that if Victor was a better father. The monster wouldn't need to be a monster. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: and the movie version from 1930, which has been the most influential adaptation, this turns into like, Victor's actually a cruel father. He like disciplines this creature with like whips Katie Marinello: Jesus. Claire Fisher: and that's why it turns on him. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: but then Victor survives and has a happy ending, which Katie Marinello: Right, right, right. Claire Fisher: um, Katie Marinello: is not, yeah. Claire Fisher: and then to make the sequels they reccon that like, oh, they all survived and just, yeah. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: that, but modeled in that version. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: in the, in the 1930 version that like happy ending is that he goes [00:57:00] home to get married and like it ends with him in bed and Elizabeth kissing him. So like the implication being like, oh, everything's gonna be okay as long as they have like normal ative sex now instead of him try to create children out of corpses. And Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: I mean, I guess on balance that's probably the better. Solution Katie Marinello: If you're gonna pick one. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Maybe not reanimating humans. Yes. Okay. Should we rank her Claire Fisher: Oh, one Hot Slayer. I mean, she doesn't even scream when she's getting murdered. Katie Marinello: on purpose? Claire Fisher: Okay, so instead of zero, she gets one for intentionally not screaming while Katie Marinello: I don't think we ever gave a zero. So. Um, Claire Fisher: in, um, under the rainbow? Katie Marinello: maybe, I don't remember. Claire Fisher: Mm, Katie Marinello: should probably make one of your famous charts for this. Claire Fisher: you want a chart? Katie Marinello: For those of you who don't follow Claire's blog, dead fictional [00:58:00] girlfriend's research reports, she does love a chart. Yes. I would love a chart so we can start ranking these movies. Claire Fisher: So what you want, like a line graph up, down, up, down. Or? Katie Marinello: Um, maybe put them in order of how we rank them. Claire Fisher: Oh, you want just like a table? Katie Marinello: No, I mean it can be a bar graph I suppose, if that makes you happy. Claire Fisher: No, no, no. Not a bar graph, blood Katie Marinello: I know you wanted a line graph. I'm saying I think a line graph just would imply that it's like over time, whereas the bar graph is just like a comparison. Claire Fisher: Um, Katie Marinello: We are nerds, we are nerds. Ooh, this calls for a spreadsheet. Claire Fisher: it does call for a spreadsheet 'cause you know, you know how you make a chart in the modern era is you have to have Katie Marinello: have to have a spreadsheet. Claire Fisher: spreadsheet. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. I love a spreadsheet. This is what my one like mathematical brain side of things. I love a spreadsheet. [00:59:00] So, Claire Fisher: So speaking of lists, what is up Katie Marinello: oh, let's look at our spreadsheet. Shall we Claire Fisher: You shall. Um, so this happened in the same year as Garbo talks, Katie Marinello: Uhhuh Claire Fisher: technically be our next episode, Katie Marinello: technically, Claire Fisher: recorded it. Katie Marinello: uh, giving away our secrets? Yes, we did. Claire Fisher: is Made, Katie Marinello: Yes, we did. So that will be the next episode. And then what are we watching after that? Claire Fisher: the Man with One Red Shoe, Katie Marinello: Oh, wow. Okay. Back to red shoes. We went from, Dorothy to. Now a man with one shoe. Claire Fisher: Red Shoe starring Tom Hanks, Katie Marinello: oh, okay, cool. Next week I get to tell you about Tom Hanks' career. Claire Fisher: I Augusta. Until then in the immortal words of Carrie Fisher, if my life wasn't funny, it would just be true. Katie Marinello: And that's unacceptable. [01:00:00] Alright, good night. Claire Fisher: Good night. Katie Marinello: Thanks for listening to another episode of Carried Far, far Away. This podcast is hosted, produced, edited re-edited obsessed over and loved by Katie Marinello and Claire Fisher. You can follow the show on Facebook and Instagram at carriedawaypod You can email us at awaycarriedpod@gmail.com You can follow Claire deadfictionalgirlfriends and Katie katiedaway We are proud to be part of the 12 24 network. You can join fans and creators from the Network on Discord by clicking the link in the show notes. All clips used in this podcast are done so under the protection of fair use. Have a wonderful week, and may the force be with you. ​ Katie Marinello: And now our space, grandma wisdom of the week. You have to make the hard stuff funny as quickly as you can because otherwise it sort of just hangs over you. ​ [01:01:00]