WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.210 --> 00:00:02.110 Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Equine Assisted World. 00:00:02.140 --> 00:00:05.260 I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New York Times best selling 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.330 author of The Horse Boy, The Long Ride Home, and The Healing Land. 00:00:08.379 --> 00:00:11.889 Before I jump in with today's guest, I just want to say a huge 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.139 thank you to you, our audience, for helping to make this happen. 00:00:15.229 --> 00:00:15.999 I have a request. 00:00:16.520 --> 00:00:22.009 If you like what we do, please like, subscribe, tell a friend. 00:00:22.579 --> 00:00:24.319 It really helps us get this work done. 00:00:24.529 --> 00:00:27.299 As you might know from my books, I'm an autism dad. 00:00:27.805 --> 00:00:30.645 And over the last 20 years, we've developed several 00:00:31.345 --> 00:00:35.285 equine assisted, neuroscience backed certification programs. 00:00:35.884 --> 00:00:38.485 If you'd like to find out more about them, go to newtrailslearning. 00:00:40.664 --> 00:00:40.814 com. 00:00:41.065 --> 00:00:43.665 So without further ado, let's meet today's guest. 00:00:47.539 --> 00:00:53.419 Okay, I have got Susie Pritchard Jones. 00:00:53.449 --> 00:00:55.879 I've reeled her in from the thoroughbred industry. 00:00:56.390 --> 00:00:58.129 This is interesting today. 00:00:58.569 --> 00:01:03.759 There is a conversation going on within therapeutic riding about 00:01:03.940 --> 00:01:08.500 off the track thoroughbreds and whether or not they can or should 00:01:08.859 --> 00:01:12.070 do our kind of equine assisted work. 00:01:12.399 --> 00:01:15.639 And it's interesting, people have very, very strong feelings about this. 00:01:16.009 --> 00:01:19.654 Often negatively, and this has often surprised me, but that's because 00:01:19.815 --> 00:01:21.169 I grew up with thoroughbreds. 00:01:21.169 --> 00:01:22.614 I, that was the only horse I knew. 00:01:23.475 --> 00:01:28.075 As a teenager warm bloods just weren't even a thing in England at that time. 00:01:28.075 --> 00:01:29.215 They crept in later. 00:01:29.365 --> 00:01:33.565 We had something called the Hunter Improvement Society, which turned into the 00:01:33.565 --> 00:01:35.305 British warm blood, but we were years off. 00:01:35.455 --> 00:01:39.955 Of course, we had hunters and cross breads and cobs and things like that, but 00:01:40.015 --> 00:01:44.725 thoroughbreds were what most of us cut our teeth on, and we absolutely realized 00:01:44.725 --> 00:01:50.745 that we could repurpose, particularly the steeple chasers quite easily to do various 00:01:50.745 --> 00:01:56.115 types of job within the eventing, jumping sort of a world and obviously hunting. 00:01:56.685 --> 00:01:59.545 And although you did get the odd one that was a bit of a nutter actually 00:01:59.545 --> 00:02:04.245 the vast majority of them, were really, really good once they knew the job. 00:02:04.635 --> 00:02:08.265 So it's clear from me talking that I'm on Team Thoroughbred. 00:02:08.605 --> 00:02:11.964 But it's understandable for people who don't really know them and are nervous 00:02:11.964 --> 00:02:14.135 of them why they might be skeptical. 00:02:14.255 --> 00:02:17.315 And of course we also know that there can be a big difference between a 00:02:17.315 --> 00:02:21.325 flat racer very, very hot, perhaps not terribly strong in the back, et cetera, et 00:02:21.325 --> 00:02:24.355 cetera, and a a big solid steeple chaser. 00:02:24.655 --> 00:02:29.595 But that said, there's a lot more to it because we know that the industry the 00:02:29.595 --> 00:02:34.945 thoroughbred industry is not a popular one even within the the, the horse world. 00:02:35.485 --> 00:02:42.024 And we know that our therapy work is getting more and more attention and 00:02:42.024 --> 00:02:46.914 whether or not we think thoroughbreds should or shouldn't be used in what we 00:02:46.914 --> 00:02:50.994 do and whether or not we think the racing industry should or shouldn't exist. 00:02:51.174 --> 00:02:52.434 The fact is that both. 00:02:52.794 --> 00:02:53.544 Do exist. 00:02:54.325 --> 00:02:57.894 And I think that if we don't explore this and explore this in some 00:02:57.894 --> 00:03:03.314 depth, then we are not doing due diligence within our own practice. 00:03:03.524 --> 00:03:07.244 So anyway, Susie Pritchard Jones is a breeder of racehorses. 00:03:07.754 --> 00:03:10.874 She's also someone who cares very much about the thoroughbred 00:03:10.874 --> 00:03:13.274 horse as well as humans. 00:03:13.994 --> 00:03:19.604 And she divides her time between Ireland and Florida, although she 00:03:19.694 --> 00:03:21.164 breeds her race horses in the uk. 00:03:21.794 --> 00:03:28.545 And she is well versed in this industry and she had the, the good graces to come 00:03:28.545 --> 00:03:33.855 and attend our Horse Boy Tribe Day, which we had in Ireland this year, in 2025. 00:03:34.274 --> 00:03:38.954 And educate us a little bit about what the possibilities might be. 00:03:39.405 --> 00:03:42.915 Between the work we do and the thoroughbred industry. 00:03:43.214 --> 00:03:46.605 So without further ado, I've rambled as I always do. 00:03:46.785 --> 00:03:48.494 Susie, welcome on the show. 00:03:48.975 --> 00:03:50.085 Thanks for coming on. 00:03:50.325 --> 00:03:56.715 Why on earth do you even give a flying beep about the work we do and because 00:03:56.745 --> 00:03:57.825 we know what we all thoroughbred. 00:03:57.825 --> 00:03:59.295 People are just all in it for the money, aren't you? 00:03:59.625 --> 00:04:04.905 And yeah, why, why this curiosity around thoroughbreds 00:04:04.995 --> 00:04:07.165 and the work of healing humans. 00:04:07.885 --> 00:04:11.095 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Well, Ruit, thank you firstly for having me on the show. 00:04:11.095 --> 00:04:15.045 I mean, I'm hugely honored and I, when you asked me, I said this 00:04:15.045 --> 00:04:17.684 is gonna be a really short one, Rupert, it'll be about two minutes. 00:04:17.714 --> 00:04:18.314 'cause I dunno, 00:04:18.644 --> 00:04:19.664 Rupert Isaacson: we all golf down the pub then 00:04:20.204 --> 00:04:21.015 Suzi Prichard-Jones: well out of me. 00:04:21.015 --> 00:04:22.574 But I grew up in the. 00:04:23.474 --> 00:04:25.364 I grew up on a step farm in Ireland. 00:04:25.364 --> 00:04:28.664 My father bred horses and sold them and raced them. 00:04:28.905 --> 00:04:36.864 And I grew up with a Harry Shetland pony and then a Welsh cob and I hunted show, 00:04:36.864 --> 00:04:40.734 jumped cross country, loved to go fast. 00:04:41.064 --> 00:04:46.824 And then I started show jumping some three quarter bread. 00:04:46.974 --> 00:04:51.364 So they were three quarters thoroughbred and probably the other part would 00:04:51.364 --> 00:04:55.294 be Kamara or Irish draft horses. 00:04:55.394 --> 00:05:00.274 And then I got sucked into riding out thoroughbreds, which is great 00:05:00.274 --> 00:05:02.434 fun because you get to go fast. 00:05:02.824 --> 00:05:05.434 Rupert Isaacson: Just quickly, not everyone knows what riding out means. 00:05:05.434 --> 00:05:07.054 Can you just explain the terminology 00:05:07.324 --> 00:05:08.494 Suzi Prichard-Jones: you go to? 00:05:08.544 --> 00:05:10.944 Every morning trainers take the sets of. 00:05:11.604 --> 00:05:16.524 Thoroughbreds to the gallops and they have exercise riders, right? 00:05:17.064 --> 00:05:19.194 So I got to be an exercise rider, 00:05:19.884 --> 00:05:22.014 Rupert Isaacson: short stirrups, bum in the air, like a jockey. 00:05:22.464 --> 00:05:23.304 Suzi Prichard-Jones: All of the above 00:05:23.484 --> 00:05:25.074 Rupert Isaacson: going nuts on a young thoroughbred 00:05:25.374 --> 00:05:26.484 Suzi Prichard-Jones: going on for dear life. 00:05:26.814 --> 00:05:26.994 Yeah. 00:05:27.044 --> 00:05:33.434 I actually was looking at a short video this morning that had been made 00:05:33.434 --> 00:05:39.464 in Australia and they were talking about, you know, how it was so wrong 00:05:39.464 --> 00:05:43.844 and they used to domineer horses and make the horses do what they want. 00:05:43.844 --> 00:05:46.954 And there was one woman who was a breeder of horses. 00:05:46.954 --> 00:05:51.754 She said she'd, she'd bred 80 folds and she made her voices 00:05:52.024 --> 00:05:53.554 do what she wanted them to do. 00:05:54.424 --> 00:05:55.114 And I thought. 00:05:55.834 --> 00:05:59.644 Well, number one, I had a little hairy she and pony that landed 00:05:59.644 --> 00:06:02.404 me down its neck first off. 00:06:02.404 --> 00:06:02.944 And we Yeah. 00:06:03.029 --> 00:06:04.744 Rupert Isaacson: Good luck with making that thing do anything. 00:06:04.744 --> 00:06:04.924 Yeah. 00:06:04.924 --> 00:06:04.984 We 00:06:05.224 --> 00:06:08.734 Suzi Prichard-Jones: had an L stud brew and he said, hit her before 00:06:08.734 --> 00:06:13.654 the fence, hit her over the fence and hit her when you land because 00:06:13.654 --> 00:06:15.124 she didn't really want to jump. 00:06:15.154 --> 00:06:19.084 And she put me off more times than, you know, probably had 00:06:19.084 --> 00:06:21.154 hot dinners at that that age. 00:06:21.514 --> 00:06:25.924 And then after that, when I had my Welsh cob, he used to 00:06:25.924 --> 00:06:27.214 run off with me all the time. 00:06:28.204 --> 00:06:28.264 Yeah. 00:06:28.264 --> 00:06:32.314 And goes riding the race horses and very often it's on a wing in 00:06:32.314 --> 00:06:36.454 a prayer and it's like a lot of trust and faith in each other. 00:06:36.454 --> 00:06:40.594 And you just, you get to that point where they really want to go and you 00:06:40.594 --> 00:06:46.024 are holding on as hard as you can till you reach that point where they 00:06:46.024 --> 00:06:48.124 just take your breath and they relax. 00:06:48.364 --> 00:06:48.664 But 00:06:48.664 --> 00:06:48.674 Rupert Isaacson: yeah. 00:06:49.339 --> 00:06:52.849 Suzi Prichard-Jones: You can't just, they take you to the edge sometimes and if 00:06:52.849 --> 00:06:58.069 you can't just relax and sit there and not panic, they're gonna go with you. 00:06:58.309 --> 00:07:04.209 So this idea of dominating horses it was something very foreign into me 00:07:04.239 --> 00:07:09.429 because a I wouldn't say I had a huge amount of bottle anyway as in nerve. 00:07:09.729 --> 00:07:13.389 So it was always a question of working with them. 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:14.259 Okay, 00:07:14.264 --> 00:07:14.424 Rupert Isaacson: yeah. 00:07:14.644 --> 00:07:15.939 Suzi Prichard-Jones: So you don't wanna go there? 00:07:15.939 --> 00:07:19.089 Well, how if we go over here and then we go around and we go 00:07:19.089 --> 00:07:21.219 there and then everybody's happy. 00:07:21.219 --> 00:07:26.799 So it was, it was that relationship that you developed with every No, I 00:07:26.799 --> 00:07:27.819 Rupert Isaacson: would, I would agree. 00:07:27.919 --> 00:07:32.599 I'm often perplexed myself when people talk about people forcing horses to do 00:07:32.599 --> 00:07:37.969 things because it, that it's actually not a terribly easy thing to do. 00:07:38.509 --> 00:07:43.789 But I think maybe what they mean is just being a bit shitty to the horse, you know? 00:07:45.019 --> 00:07:48.739 If the emotion coming towards the horse is always kind of negative and 00:07:48.739 --> 00:07:54.019 kind, I want you to do this thing you don't really want to do, rather than 00:07:55.069 --> 00:07:58.159 trying to show you how this might be something we want to do together. 00:07:58.369 --> 00:08:03.869 I suppose that you do get that type of personality type in the 00:08:03.869 --> 00:08:06.389 horse world is in anywhere, right? 00:08:06.389 --> 00:08:07.919 People that really want to control. 00:08:08.609 --> 00:08:09.779 But I would agree with you. 00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:13.799 I wouldn't say that that is in the old days, I'm now old. 00:08:14.519 --> 00:08:19.289 I wouldn't say that was really the norm, even though it's, there's a mythology now. 00:08:19.289 --> 00:08:21.449 I agree that it was the norm, but I, I, I agree with you. 00:08:21.449 --> 00:08:22.559 I don't really think it ever was. 00:08:23.324 --> 00:08:26.879 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I think if you grew up hunting like we did Rupert your 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:28.859 horses, your ponies, they loved it. 00:08:29.099 --> 00:08:29.369 Yeah. 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:34.979 I mean, my Welsh cob yeah, as, as somebody tried to jump a fence in front 00:08:34.979 --> 00:08:36.869 of him, they could fall into the ditch. 00:08:37.020 --> 00:08:37.799 Didn't matter. 00:08:37.914 --> 00:08:40.679 He, he didn't even give me a chance to look at it. 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:40.889 He 00:08:40.984 --> 00:08:41.334 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:42.000 He was going, 00:08:42.270 --> 00:08:43.109 Suzi Prichard-Jones: he was gone. 00:08:43.439 --> 00:08:46.379 But if nobody tried that fence, he wouldn't go. 00:08:46.379 --> 00:08:48.329 That hella high water wouldn't get him over it. 00:08:48.929 --> 00:08:49.169 So. 00:08:49.230 --> 00:08:49.409 Yeah, no, 00:08:49.889 --> 00:08:50.699 Rupert Isaacson: absolutely. 00:08:50.699 --> 00:08:54.209 It was, I think the thing with the hunting world too, again, whatever 00:08:54.209 --> 00:08:57.270 you think morally about hunting, 'cause you can also go drag hunting. 00:08:57.270 --> 00:08:58.949 You don't have to go, you know, real hunting. 00:08:59.010 --> 00:09:03.629 But when you go out in a group like that across country, the horses 00:09:03.629 --> 00:09:05.010 are in their big social herd. 00:09:05.129 --> 00:09:05.909 They're loving it. 00:09:06.310 --> 00:09:07.389 They're clearly loving it. 00:09:07.869 --> 00:09:08.469 I agree. 00:09:08.469 --> 00:09:11.949 It, it's, it, it's so much about the need to stay alive too. 00:09:12.099 --> 00:09:15.969 If you are the monkey sitting up there, you don't want to go against your horse. 00:09:16.719 --> 00:09:18.369 And I think we all learn that quite. 00:09:18.489 --> 00:09:18.669 Quickly, 00:09:20.714 --> 00:09:21.094 you know? 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:22.569 So yeah. 00:09:23.199 --> 00:09:29.199 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And that kind of leads very nicely into why I think the 00:09:29.199 --> 00:09:34.969 work that you are doing and so many other people are doing giving help through 00:09:34.969 --> 00:09:42.169 horses, it brings us back to this age old relationship that we've had horses, we've 00:09:42.169 --> 00:09:47.899 walked beside horses for over 6,000 years, and were it not for the horse, it's been 00:09:47.899 --> 00:09:49.939 a partnership between horse and human. 00:09:50.269 --> 00:09:54.439 Where it horse, we would not be where we are today. 00:09:54.769 --> 00:09:55.099 Rupert Isaacson: Very true. 00:09:55.309 --> 00:09:57.379 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Course that help create civilization. 00:09:57.379 --> 00:10:03.049 So we've always had this bond with horses up until the last 80 to a hundred years. 00:10:03.054 --> 00:10:03.154 Rupert Isaacson: Mm. 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:06.139 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And we have lost that now and. 00:10:07.204 --> 00:10:11.584 There's a marvelous connection that anybody who is around horses 00:10:11.734 --> 00:10:16.474 has is, and we've all been really privileged to have them in our lives. 00:10:16.774 --> 00:10:17.044 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 00:10:17.114 --> 00:10:19.664 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Because the therapists, they are natural therapists 00:10:19.844 --> 00:10:29.504 and I see so many young teenagers that are going through hell and they're isolated. 00:10:29.504 --> 00:10:35.504 And now with, since COVID and with the dependence on technology that we have, 00:10:35.834 --> 00:10:42.224 we've got a whole generation that are very, very isolated from the humans. 00:10:42.229 --> 00:10:44.504 And depression is a big thing. 00:10:46.544 --> 00:10:47.144 Rupert Isaacson: I would agree. 00:10:47.144 --> 00:10:49.094 Particularly interestingly among young men. 00:10:49.544 --> 00:10:53.444 It used to be considered rather a female thing, that type of depression. 00:10:53.444 --> 00:10:54.794 And, and it switched. 00:10:54.794 --> 00:10:59.379 It seems almost now pro post COVID and we have a whole generation of boys 00:10:59.379 --> 00:11:00.504 that won't come out of the basement. 00:11:01.165 --> 00:11:03.504 And we call it the Lost Boys. 00:11:03.925 --> 00:11:04.014 Mm-hmm. 00:11:04.555 --> 00:11:05.964 But I believe it doesn't have to be. 00:11:05.964 --> 00:11:11.455 So, but nature and the mind are where we need to be concerned with this. 00:11:11.455 --> 00:11:14.965 And what does a horse do of course, but connect us that way. 00:11:15.325 --> 00:11:19.555 So I I'm absolutely with you on that and that I don't really see any coercion 00:11:19.555 --> 00:11:25.285 and any thoroughbred that I ever met because they're bred to run runs joyfully. 00:11:25.375 --> 00:11:29.335 I am absolutely of the opinion that you certainly don't need to coerce 00:11:29.575 --> 00:11:31.525 or force a thoroughbred to run. 00:11:31.525 --> 00:11:33.265 They will run because they like to run. 00:11:33.785 --> 00:11:36.935 They do it in the field, they'll do it at any opportunity. 00:11:36.935 --> 00:11:37.865 It's what they like to do. 00:11:37.865 --> 00:11:40.505 I've got human friends that like to do that as well, by the way. 00:11:40.865 --> 00:11:42.755 And they are built a bit different to me. 00:11:42.755 --> 00:11:45.665 They're generally longer and stringier than I am. 00:11:45.935 --> 00:11:47.915 And they love to run, you know? 00:11:48.015 --> 00:11:48.705 So. 00:11:49.575 --> 00:11:55.075 Okay, we can accept that there is a running gene in a horse and that if 00:11:55.075 --> 00:11:58.705 you breed to that, you get horses that are very desirous of doing that. 00:11:59.005 --> 00:11:59.605 Sure. 00:12:00.835 --> 00:12:05.635 But why do you give, again, a flying bleep about the work that we do? 00:12:06.835 --> 00:12:09.715 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Because I think everybody needs horses in their lives. 00:12:11.155 --> 00:12:16.585 I think we've, we've always had them, and it's only, like I say, in the last 00:12:16.585 --> 00:12:23.155 80 to a hundred years that we've access you see it in your work with autistic 00:12:23.155 --> 00:12:29.875 children when parents will say, you know, the child smiled for the first 00:12:29.875 --> 00:12:35.455 time in however long or maybe ever, but you see it in any kid that is not 00:12:35.455 --> 00:12:37.645 afraid and wants to get on a pony. 00:12:37.975 --> 00:12:40.705 You see that being from, from here to here. 00:12:41.035 --> 00:12:41.755 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 00:12:42.085 --> 00:12:42.715 Absolutely. 00:12:43.465 --> 00:12:43.945 Suzi Prichard-Jones: You're happy 00:12:44.155 --> 00:12:45.175 Rupert Isaacson: even so. 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:50.920 You're a thoroughbred chick and you haven't really touched our 00:12:50.920 --> 00:12:56.830 work until now, so something must have sparked your curiosity. 00:12:57.550 --> 00:13:02.800 And just to play devil's advocate against myself, I also did not 00:13:02.800 --> 00:13:06.800 spend the first decades of my life wanting to do equine assisted work. 00:13:06.830 --> 00:13:08.090 No thank you at all. 00:13:08.510 --> 00:13:13.610 It only happened when my son, as we know, forced his own relationship with a horse. 00:13:14.070 --> 00:13:18.930 Went from nonverbal to verbal and I realized I had to follow this 00:13:18.930 --> 00:13:21.510 and I had to follow it to the hilt. 00:13:22.110 --> 00:13:26.610 But I absolutely do not hold it against people to not necessarily 00:13:26.610 --> 00:13:29.310 be interested until a certain point, but I'm always interested in why 00:13:29.310 --> 00:13:30.930 someone's interest gets sparked. 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:32.400 What's the catalyst? 00:13:32.460 --> 00:13:36.780 And did you have some, any incidents when you were younger in, you know, 00:13:36.780 --> 00:13:41.370 as a teenager or in your earlier life or even later where psychologically 00:13:41.370 --> 00:13:43.290 or emotionally there was some. 00:13:43.695 --> 00:13:44.595 Trigger point for you? 00:13:44.775 --> 00:13:49.545 For example, for me in my personal life, take my son out of it. 00:13:49.905 --> 00:13:54.825 When I was in my early adolescence, I was having a very, very tough time at school. 00:13:55.125 --> 00:13:58.845 And I got to a point where I couldn't get outta bed and I was effectively 00:13:58.845 --> 00:14:01.875 one of those lost boys for a little bit and it was horses that got me out. 00:14:02.355 --> 00:14:10.025 So I knew from very early that I owed what passes as sanity for me to ponies. 00:14:10.475 --> 00:14:13.475 So have there been any catalysts like that in your life? 00:14:14.285 --> 00:14:18.415 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Sure I was I had a very lucky and privileged 00:14:18.445 --> 00:14:24.805 upbringing, but I was an only child and my pony was my salvation. 00:14:25.495 --> 00:14:28.435 It was, you know, there were a lot of my parents were very 00:14:28.855 --> 00:14:35.245 Victorian and very strict, and I was, I didn't conform that easily. 00:14:35.515 --> 00:14:36.385 Rupert Isaacson: I can feel the pain. 00:14:38.290 --> 00:14:38.580 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Yeah. 00:14:38.660 --> 00:14:42.265 I don't think, I didn't have a pair of jeans, denim jeans. 00:14:42.445 --> 00:14:43.735 I was about 17. 00:14:44.210 --> 00:14:44.500 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:14:45.595 --> 00:14:47.665 Suzi Prichard-Jones: So I was, and I was always trying to 00:14:47.665 --> 00:14:49.945 buck for the establishment. 00:14:50.045 --> 00:14:55.205 So it was and my, my pony was literally my sanity. 00:14:55.205 --> 00:14:55.235 Mm 00:14:56.050 --> 00:14:56.270 Rupert Isaacson: mm. 00:14:56.655 --> 00:15:01.245 Suzi Prichard-Jones: So I really, you know, I've always loved, loved horses and 00:15:01.635 --> 00:15:01.845 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:15:01.845 --> 00:15:04.935 A pony is by its very nature, both rock and roll and punk rock. 00:15:05.265 --> 00:15:08.745 Like, it's the soul of freedom and rebellion, isn't it? 00:15:09.345 --> 00:15:10.575 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Because that's, that's who they are. 00:15:11.115 --> 00:15:11.445 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:15:12.135 --> 00:15:15.685 Suzi Prichard-Jones: The tipping point as far as the therapeutic riding 00:15:15.715 --> 00:15:21.775 and EAS is concerned was there's an organization called IAR, the 00:15:21.775 --> 00:15:27.295 International Forum for the aftercare of race horses that was set up in 2016. 00:15:27.835 --> 00:15:32.155 They work mainly with regulatory bodies around the world as 00:15:32.155 --> 00:15:33.775 opposed to boots on the ground. 00:15:34.375 --> 00:15:42.705 But they did make this marvelous video of there was a ride in Dovi in France 00:15:43.155 --> 00:15:49.515 and they had several therapeutic organizations there in attendance. 00:15:49.515 --> 00:15:55.635 And one of them was Horseback uk and they had interviewed Jock Hutson and 00:15:55.635 --> 00:15:58.095 he said, we have mainly thorough roads. 00:15:58.575 --> 00:16:01.765 Rupert Isaacson: By the way, lads listening to this, our podcast with 00:16:01.765 --> 00:16:07.385 Emma Hutchinson from Horseback uk and Jay, her assistant and manager there. 00:16:07.505 --> 00:16:10.535 You must go and go back through Equine Assisted World and listen to that one 00:16:10.535 --> 00:16:12.935 because it's an amazing organization. 00:16:12.965 --> 00:16:13.625 Okay, sorry. 00:16:13.775 --> 00:16:14.315 Back to you. 00:16:14.530 --> 00:16:19.745 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And the light bulb went off and I thought we've got the 00:16:19.745 --> 00:16:26.705 horse racing industry, which is the low hanging fruit on the equestrian tree as 00:16:26.705 --> 00:16:31.805 far as animal rights people are concerned. 00:16:33.185 --> 00:16:38.915 And we have two things in the thoroughbred industry that are the low 00:16:38.915 --> 00:16:43.805 hanging fruits and vulnerable areas, and one is breakdowns of race horses 00:16:43.805 --> 00:16:48.065 because that hits everybody on a visceral level and it's just the most 00:16:48.065 --> 00:16:51.300 horrible thing it you've ever witnessed that, and you don't have to do it. 00:16:51.995 --> 00:16:58.955 Unfortunately, it happens sometimes just as you get wrecks in Grand Prix racing 00:16:59.015 --> 00:17:01.565 or cycling or various other things. 00:17:02.765 --> 00:17:03.155 Rupert Isaacson: Athletic endeavor. 00:17:03.305 --> 00:17:03.575 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Yeah. 00:17:03.575 --> 00:17:06.515 Anything that's slightly on the, the edge of danger. 00:17:07.065 --> 00:17:11.445 And the other thing was what was happening with retired race horses, 00:17:12.495 --> 00:17:18.675 and most of them find second homes and second careers, but some of them don't. 00:17:19.155 --> 00:17:21.555 And that's a concern. 00:17:21.555 --> 00:17:27.195 And it's a, it's an area that is becoming under more and more scrutiny from the 00:17:27.195 --> 00:17:32.565 industry and the industry worldwide is trying to address that because you have 00:17:32.565 --> 00:17:35.505 to remember that we've had horse racing. 00:17:36.165 --> 00:17:39.530 Since the Greeks discovered one horse could run faster than the other. 00:17:39.980 --> 00:17:41.055 Rupert Isaacson: We've had it longer than that. 00:17:41.205 --> 00:17:45.375 We've had it, we've had it since the steps we've had it for since the Yeah. 00:17:45.375 --> 00:17:49.845 The to people 6,000 years ago, whenever first started to 00:17:49.845 --> 00:17:50.955 breed for the higher weather. 00:17:51.045 --> 00:17:51.865 In in, 00:17:52.305 --> 00:17:52.485 Suzi Prichard-Jones: yeah. 00:17:53.175 --> 00:17:54.975 Once the, once the human monkey figured out. 00:17:54.975 --> 00:17:57.105 But it could voices back and, 00:17:57.675 --> 00:17:57.975 Rupert Isaacson: yeah. 00:17:58.275 --> 00:17:59.175 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Through the world. 00:17:59.565 --> 00:18:03.195 But the thoroughbred industry and thoroughbred racing has only been 00:18:03.195 --> 00:18:05.565 around since the 18th century. 00:18:06.705 --> 00:18:12.230 And the thoroughbred was bred by very skilled group of men in North Yorkshire in 00:18:12.235 --> 00:18:15.765 the late 17th century, early 18th century. 00:18:16.545 --> 00:18:22.365 And typically until the beginning, middle, probably middle part of the 00:18:22.365 --> 00:18:27.735 20th century, IT com pro, the racing world comprised of owner breeders. 00:18:28.605 --> 00:18:32.175 So when a horse retired from racing, they would go back to 00:18:32.175 --> 00:18:34.305 these larger states or farms. 00:18:34.545 --> 00:18:38.355 Well, that whole picture started to change mid 20th century. 00:18:38.865 --> 00:18:42.675 And you had people who did not have land coming in and buying race 00:18:42.675 --> 00:18:44.295 horses and now you have syndicate. 00:18:44.415 --> 00:18:47.625 And so the whole landscape has changed and the racing industry 00:18:47.625 --> 00:18:52.305 has been a bit on the back foot catching up with it at the beginning. 00:18:52.935 --> 00:18:58.725 So when I saw the Ifar video, I thought, well, this is a no-brainer. 00:18:58.755 --> 00:19:03.135 Why aren't we using thoroughbreds in this world? 00:19:04.545 --> 00:19:10.335 We have an industry that's a global industry, it has a global media network. 00:19:10.905 --> 00:19:15.915 We can get the word out about what is happening and we can get it. 00:19:16.005 --> 00:19:18.735 'cause we have a very diverse group of owners. 00:19:19.325 --> 00:19:22.745 We get that word out and then we get this thing going. 00:19:23.645 --> 00:19:28.325 And I'm at the point now where it's like, right lads, stop mucking around 00:19:28.325 --> 00:19:32.705 and let's, let's get this thing going because it has huge potential. 00:19:32.705 --> 00:19:36.665 So that was the sort of light bulb, was the iPhone video. 00:19:37.475 --> 00:19:40.395 Rupert Isaacson: So what's interesting to me about that is okay, so that video, I 00:19:40.395 --> 00:19:45.675 know of that video and the, the ride at Ville, let's say someone's listening, you 00:19:45.675 --> 00:19:46.905 know, who might not know what that meant. 00:19:47.445 --> 00:19:50.265 Ville, that area of France is of course where the D-Day landings 00:19:50.265 --> 00:19:51.765 happened in World War ii. 00:19:52.245 --> 00:19:58.315 And so these were groups of these were veteran groups who do work with 00:19:58.345 --> 00:20:02.515 equine assisted work and veterans having a really good idea, which was 00:20:02.515 --> 00:20:07.085 to go and do this ride on those beaches where the Normandy landings happened. 00:20:07.295 --> 00:20:10.625 And all those tens of thousands of, of young men got killed on both sides. 00:20:11.085 --> 00:20:12.255 As a way of. 00:20:13.005 --> 00:20:17.185 Bringing our attention not just to the sacrifice that was made back then. 00:20:17.715 --> 00:20:20.205 Otherwise we'd probably all speak be speaking German right now. 00:20:20.355 --> 00:20:23.835 Although actually I did just sit my B one German exam. 00:20:24.135 --> 00:20:27.675 And so now I, I do actually speak German, but hey but voluntarily 00:20:27.705 --> 00:20:28.635 not at the point of a gut. 00:20:29.025 --> 00:20:35.285 And also it drew attention to the work that is done for post-traumatic stress 00:20:35.285 --> 00:20:40.155 disorder because a lot of those men who survived World War II survived 00:20:40.155 --> 00:20:41.625 with what we then called shell shock. 00:20:41.945 --> 00:20:48.455 But we've come to call PTSD and it was difficult for them to reintegrate to 00:20:48.455 --> 00:20:50.135 civilian life, and not all of them did. 00:20:50.695 --> 00:20:57.745 And the sacrifice that is made on the battlefield sometimes goes on for decades. 00:20:58.165 --> 00:20:58.885 Thereafter. 00:20:59.585 --> 00:21:01.355 We, you referred to Horseback uk. 00:21:01.355 --> 00:21:04.985 You know, Jay, who runs the program there, who we did a podcast with a 00:21:04.985 --> 00:21:09.095 little while ago, he got his face blown off, you know, and in Afghanistan 00:21:09.125 --> 00:21:11.825 and you know, he said, that's a really interesting to lose your face. 00:21:12.755 --> 00:21:15.725 Your face is your identity, whether you like your face or you don't 00:21:15.725 --> 00:21:17.315 like your face, it's you, you know? 00:21:17.345 --> 00:21:21.055 And to not be you is a really, really, really strange thing. 00:21:21.055 --> 00:21:23.125 He said his leg getting blown off and that sort of thing. 00:21:23.275 --> 00:21:26.455 It's kind of a bit more like, eh, but the face, whoa. 00:21:26.905 --> 00:21:30.175 And even though reconstruction was done, you know, you can imagine the 00:21:30.175 --> 00:21:34.765 psychological effects and the horse of course as a wonderful thing with this. 00:21:34.945 --> 00:21:38.665 Now you mentioned Horseback UK also because they use a lot of thoroughbreds 00:21:38.965 --> 00:21:44.005 and in our own Horse Boy program particularly in California, interestingly 00:21:44.005 --> 00:21:48.385 enough with Square Peg Foundation, Joel Dunlap, who runs that, they're almost 00:21:48.385 --> 00:21:52.975 exclusively Thoroughbreds and it's quite a lot of our places in Ireland too. 00:21:52.975 --> 00:21:57.485 Laskin at Farm has quite a few with David Doyle and of course where we did our Tribe 00:21:57.485 --> 00:21:59.615 day at Stewart's Care in County Meat. 00:21:59.615 --> 00:22:04.445 There's a few thoroughbreds there, interestingly, in Ireland. 00:22:05.585 --> 00:22:08.615 There's quite often, even though it's like one of the homes of the thoroughbred, 00:22:08.795 --> 00:22:14.525 there's often a real pushback among an unexpectedly strong pushback among the 00:22:14.525 --> 00:22:19.085 therapeutic riding folk that Thoroughbreds should not really be used for this. 00:22:20.375 --> 00:22:21.695 Why do you think that is? 00:22:22.445 --> 00:22:23.345 And what do you say to that? 00:22:23.845 --> 00:22:27.505 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I'm laughing because it's not just, it's not 00:22:27.565 --> 00:22:31.645 necessarily, thoroughbreds shouldn't be used for therapeutic work. 00:22:31.645 --> 00:22:31.675 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:22:32.965 --> 00:22:35.635 Suzi Prichard-Jones: This is all based on a perception. 00:22:36.385 --> 00:22:36.685 Right. 00:22:36.895 --> 00:22:44.995 And, you know, I would say if you have 12 blonde hair, blue-eyed men going up 00:22:44.995 --> 00:22:49.285 in an elevator to the sixth floor, by the time they get to the first floor, 00:22:49.315 --> 00:22:53.815 they'll have sorted themselves into the, the ones that have bigger ears 00:22:53.875 --> 00:22:55.375 and the ones that have smaller ears. 00:22:55.375 --> 00:22:58.705 And, but it's a natural human instinct. 00:22:58.705 --> 00:22:59.995 We have to sift and sort. 00:23:01.015 --> 00:23:04.345 And nobody likes the racing world. 00:23:04.945 --> 00:23:07.555 In the equestrian world, everybody. 00:23:08.245 --> 00:23:12.785 I've got a good South American friend from Argentina, and you find, 00:23:13.055 --> 00:23:16.115 oh, we don't like the resilience or we don't like the bolivians. 00:23:16.115 --> 00:23:18.695 And it's the same in the equestrian world. 00:23:19.145 --> 00:23:21.155 It's, we don't like the thoroughbred people. 00:23:21.155 --> 00:23:28.685 The thoroughbred people are seen as elitist and we get all 00:23:28.685 --> 00:23:31.295 kinds of monkeys anonymous. 00:23:31.745 --> 00:23:34.595 And if you're riding a thoroughbred, and I, I, I'm sure you've probably 00:23:34.595 --> 00:23:37.025 found this through, but if you are riding a thoroughbred and you are 00:23:37.025 --> 00:23:42.395 out on the hunting field and somebody will go, oh, that's a thoroughbred. 00:23:43.445 --> 00:23:46.955 And they think they're flighty and they're scatty and they're going to kick 00:23:46.955 --> 00:23:51.275 and they're going to do all kinds of things, horses are what we make them. 00:23:52.105 --> 00:23:53.425 If we treat them with respect. 00:23:54.370 --> 00:23:58.720 And expect them to have manners, expect them to stand. 00:23:58.750 --> 00:24:00.460 There's no reason they can't stand. 00:24:01.150 --> 00:24:02.890 There's no reason they can't have manners. 00:24:03.550 --> 00:24:08.080 They will do whatever you want them to do, thorough, both really, 00:24:08.080 --> 00:24:09.580 really, really want to please. 00:24:10.360 --> 00:24:13.690 And they're not, some of them are high strung, but they're not all high 00:24:13.690 --> 00:24:17.290 strung and they're very sensitive. 00:24:17.380 --> 00:24:21.070 They're very reactive, they're incredibly intelligent, and they were 00:24:21.070 --> 00:24:26.350 bred, they're one of the few breeds that were really selectively bred 00:24:26.650 --> 00:24:31.930 for the best traits, including speed, but also for all the other traits 00:24:31.930 --> 00:24:36.540 because they were bred by these really, really smart men in the 17th century. 00:24:38.790 --> 00:24:40.770 Rupert Isaacson: What's interesting, like as you're talking to me 00:24:40.770 --> 00:24:43.650 about that, that that hunt field experience, because there's. 00:24:45.300 --> 00:24:48.750 A lot of times out of the hunt field, the thoroughbreds are flighty, but 00:24:48.750 --> 00:24:53.190 they're flighty, unfortunately because they're not set up for success, as 00:24:53.190 --> 00:24:58.050 you know, in the amateur racing world, which is point to pointing, you have 00:24:58.050 --> 00:25:01.980 to take the young thoroughbreds out and qualify them by hunting them a 00:25:02.010 --> 00:25:07.290 certain number of times with a hunt so that they can go and hunt race. 00:25:07.800 --> 00:25:12.390 And I've always thought that that was a tricky thing to do because people 00:25:12.390 --> 00:25:15.570 then take out 4-year-old thoroughbreds in the hunt field, which is a, you 00:25:15.570 --> 00:25:19.800 know, psychologically and emotionally, pretty highly charged environment. 00:25:20.040 --> 00:25:23.080 And then the thoroughbreds do leap all over the place because they're just 00:25:23.080 --> 00:25:25.030 young horses leaping all over the place. 00:25:25.470 --> 00:25:30.660 And yeah, people naturally give them a wide ber, but it's being 00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:34.560 done just so that they can go in a hunt race later rather than being. 00:25:35.355 --> 00:25:38.295 Correctly schooled so that they can just be calm on the hunt field. 00:25:38.845 --> 00:25:40.345 But as you said, I think that unfortunately that has 00:25:40.345 --> 00:25:41.635 added to the perception. 00:25:42.125 --> 00:25:42.255 But, 00:25:42.510 --> 00:25:44.100 Suzi Prichard-Jones: but in the United States 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:44.670 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:25:45.390 --> 00:25:48.250 Suzi Prichard-Jones: In Ireland they're all thoroughbreds on the hunt field. 00:25:48.790 --> 00:25:49.060 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:25:49.510 --> 00:25:54.100 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And I worked for Michael Dickinson was a very famous 00:25:54.130 --> 00:25:58.810 English steeplechase trainer who had the first five home in the Gold Cup. 00:25:58.810 --> 00:26:01.840 And he went to America and started training in America. 00:26:02.270 --> 00:26:07.190 We used to ring with three year olds out hunting on a Friday, and they loved it. 00:26:07.280 --> 00:26:08.630 Their little ears prick. 00:26:08.690 --> 00:26:11.150 They hear the hunting horn, they follow the hands. 00:26:11.450 --> 00:26:12.350 They're not flighted. 00:26:12.350 --> 00:26:16.370 They will do anything you wanted to do. 00:26:16.370 --> 00:26:20.510 And you've been to square peg and I've seen the videos of 00:26:20.540 --> 00:26:23.240 photographs of Joel's Absolutely. 00:26:23.660 --> 00:26:26.090 And their hands, you know. 00:26:26.090 --> 00:26:26.330 Yeah. 00:26:28.520 --> 00:26:30.585 You go into any, any racing yard you can. 00:26:31.310 --> 00:26:34.850 Put the 2-year-old child on some of those horses back. 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:35.510 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 00:26:35.660 --> 00:26:36.080 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Just like, 00:26:36.890 --> 00:26:37.610 Rupert Isaacson: no, I'm with you. 00:26:37.610 --> 00:26:38.090 I'm with you. 00:26:38.090 --> 00:26:41.600 I'm just, I'm agreeing with, you know, sometimes the perception has 00:26:41.600 --> 00:26:46.010 come because people make some poor choices about, you know, where to put 00:26:46.340 --> 00:26:50.450 those young thoroughbreds and that doesn't really serve the purpose. 00:26:50.510 --> 00:26:54.040 But I agree with you that in my experience, once you show 00:26:54.040 --> 00:26:58.660 a thoroughbred the job, they are exceptionally intelligent. 00:26:58.660 --> 00:27:02.780 So they will adapt to that job very, very fast. 00:27:03.320 --> 00:27:08.570 And even if they have come in from, you know, thinking that the job is always to 00:27:08.570 --> 00:27:13.340 run once you show them there's a different job, they're actually very versatile. 00:27:13.340 --> 00:27:15.020 And they're like, well, okay, yeah, I'll do that job instead. 00:27:15.420 --> 00:27:19.020 And then I'll get my jollies out when I go running in the field 00:27:19.020 --> 00:27:22.920 with my friends, or when my trainer takes me out for a, a nice. 00:27:23.445 --> 00:27:25.815 You know, mood clearing Gallup. 00:27:26.295 --> 00:27:31.035 And then when I go back in the arena with my special needs 00:27:31.335 --> 00:27:33.525 therapeutic riders, I'm good. 00:27:33.675 --> 00:27:38.895 And, and I work with, as you know, largely lucit horses because I like 00:27:38.895 --> 00:27:44.865 'em and they're super adaptable and versatile and very good dressage horses 00:27:44.865 --> 00:27:46.125 and also very good jumpers actually. 00:27:46.365 --> 00:27:50.685 I like 'em and they can also be quite passionate. 00:27:51.025 --> 00:27:52.705 So I give 'em a lot of what I call crazy time. 00:27:52.945 --> 00:27:57.385 And I'm always telling people who have therapeutic practices of any kind. 00:27:57.805 --> 00:28:00.385 Remember that any horse that you have is bred to be an athlete. 00:28:01.225 --> 00:28:04.015 Whether they're a pulling athlete or a jumping athlete or a racing 00:28:04.015 --> 00:28:09.955 athlete, they're bred to move and it's a good idea to give them some playful 00:28:09.955 --> 00:28:12.295 movement in the course of their. 00:28:12.695 --> 00:28:15.695 Weak just for their mental health as, as much as anything else in the same 00:28:15.695 --> 00:28:16.955 way that children, one, one would do it. 00:28:16.955 --> 00:28:19.865 Where they don't have to be a thoroughbred to need that, or horses 00:28:19.865 --> 00:28:21.525 actually need that to some degree. 00:28:22.245 --> 00:28:24.285 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Well, I think Rupert, what we, we haven't 00:28:24.285 --> 00:28:26.565 touched upon here is horsemanship. 00:28:26.955 --> 00:28:27.375 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:28:27.975 --> 00:28:32.505 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And you can have a bad lucer turner. 00:28:32.505 --> 00:28:32.535 Oh, 00:28:32.955 --> 00:28:33.135 Rupert Isaacson: yes. 00:28:34.995 --> 00:28:36.260 Suzi Prichard-Jones: A bad, you 00:28:36.260 --> 00:28:37.545 Rupert Isaacson: can make any horse bad, right? 00:28:37.935 --> 00:28:38.625 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Horse bad. 00:28:38.865 --> 00:28:39.135 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:28:39.405 --> 00:28:40.425 Suzi Prichard-Jones: It's how you, I've 00:28:40.425 --> 00:28:41.265 Rupert Isaacson: been doing it all my life. 00:28:42.885 --> 00:28:46.545 Suzi Prichard-Jones: It's how you, you interact with your horse. 00:28:46.815 --> 00:28:47.025 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:28:47.535 --> 00:28:48.585 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Any breed. 00:28:48.865 --> 00:28:51.025 It's what you expect from them. 00:28:51.385 --> 00:28:51.685 Rupert Isaacson: I agree. 00:28:51.685 --> 00:28:51.775 And 00:28:52.345 --> 00:28:53.365 Suzi Prichard-Jones: to give back to them. 00:28:53.365 --> 00:28:58.325 There are, yes, there are thoroughbreds, but they're mainly bad because 00:28:58.325 --> 00:28:59.705 people have made them that way. 00:28:59.705 --> 00:29:01.115 There are bad warm bloods. 00:29:01.505 --> 00:29:02.315 There are rot, 00:29:02.825 --> 00:29:03.005 Rupert Isaacson: there 00:29:03.005 --> 00:29:05.405 Suzi Prichard-Jones: are rotten IES out there, but 00:29:07.175 --> 00:29:07.685 Rupert Isaacson: hypnosis, yeah. 00:29:09.155 --> 00:29:11.440 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Part of that is what we have made them. 00:29:11.580 --> 00:29:11.800 So 00:29:12.080 --> 00:29:12.440 Rupert Isaacson: I agree. 00:29:12.700 --> 00:29:15.785 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I think the most important thing is having good horse 00:29:15.785 --> 00:29:18.695 people and, and horse men and, and women. 00:29:19.025 --> 00:29:21.485 You do have to know how to handle a thoroughbred. 00:29:21.485 --> 00:29:25.885 One of the, the most lovely things I learned at tribe Day in Cocoon 00:29:25.885 --> 00:29:30.865 in August this year with you was your crazy time for your horses. 00:29:31.225 --> 00:29:34.255 Where before you start working, then you let them out in the school 00:29:34.255 --> 00:29:37.075 and you build some jumps and they can jump and run around and Yeah. 00:29:37.795 --> 00:29:41.935 They want, any living creature is made up of energy. 00:29:42.475 --> 00:29:42.745 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 00:29:43.285 --> 00:29:47.725 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Unless you can express that energy, it gets bottled 00:29:47.725 --> 00:29:49.165 up and it becomes destructive. 00:29:49.315 --> 00:29:52.375 And you've got to do what you do. 00:29:52.375 --> 00:29:53.395 Have the crazy time. 00:29:53.395 --> 00:29:54.985 Have the, the downtime. 00:29:54.985 --> 00:29:55.885 Let them have fun. 00:29:56.755 --> 00:29:57.445 Rupert Isaacson: Exactly. 00:29:57.445 --> 00:29:58.825 I think, I think horses. 00:29:59.290 --> 00:30:03.310 Just like people desperately need time to express themselves 00:30:03.310 --> 00:30:04.660 where they're not micromanaged. 00:30:05.120 --> 00:30:08.510 I think quite a lot of resentment builds up in humans when 00:30:08.510 --> 00:30:09.740 we micromanage each other. 00:30:09.740 --> 00:30:14.930 And the same thing with horses, and of course with horses now all horses are 00:30:14.930 --> 00:30:16.490 basically leisure horses these days. 00:30:16.730 --> 00:30:20.810 So there's a lot of expectation from the owner to perform. 00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:25.160 And this has created, I feel, sometimes an overly controlled environment, 00:30:25.550 --> 00:30:27.110 which horses end up resenting. 00:30:27.620 --> 00:30:32.810 And some of the explosions that we see now are not actually because the horses 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.670 bred to run or anything is because they're just pissed off because they 00:30:37.670 --> 00:30:43.190 don't like a kid in school just constantly being in class rather than, you know, 00:30:43.195 --> 00:30:46.190 and, and now we know with schools we have less and less sport, less and less 00:30:46.190 --> 00:30:50.480 recess, less and less playtime, less and less break, more and more academics. 00:30:50.990 --> 00:30:52.070 It's not good, you know, 00:30:52.120 --> 00:30:52.475 Suzi Prichard-Jones: or more problems. 00:30:53.155 --> 00:30:54.055 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, exactly. 00:30:54.085 --> 00:30:54.745 Exactly. 00:30:55.225 --> 00:30:57.685 And then even if they pass all their exams and they're just miserable, 00:30:57.715 --> 00:31:02.645 you know, so that we get the logic of and also yes, create the, you 00:31:02.645 --> 00:31:03.755 create the horse that you want. 00:31:03.935 --> 00:31:07.865 There's two stories that stand out for me in my life like that. 00:31:08.285 --> 00:31:11.735 Just to speak to your point there, it's a very good point when you 00:31:11.735 --> 00:31:17.765 said horses kind of will adopt the persona that you expect of them. 00:31:18.295 --> 00:31:22.885 You know how there's some people who like love to ride hot horses and 00:31:22.885 --> 00:31:25.645 be the person who, and somehow they always have a hot horse under them. 00:31:26.065 --> 00:31:29.665 But often when you pass that horse to somebody else, it's not so hot 00:31:30.265 --> 00:31:33.265 and it's like the horse just, no, I'm expected to be kind of hot. 00:31:33.955 --> 00:31:37.085 I used to, when I used to hunt as a teenager, I remember there was this 00:31:37.085 --> 00:31:42.425 boy, this man who was a fighter ace, he'd been shot down in the Battle 00:31:42.425 --> 00:31:45.845 of Britain and he'd lost his legs and he'd lost his legs quite high. 00:31:46.220 --> 00:31:48.590 So it wasn't like he had them, you know, to the knee or 00:31:48.590 --> 00:31:49.640 something with a prosthetic. 00:31:49.850 --> 00:31:51.680 His prosthetics went almost to his hip. 00:31:52.040 --> 00:31:54.320 And as you know, in that area of England where I used to hunt, 00:31:54.320 --> 00:31:57.530 which is lestershire, the, the fences, the jumps are, are big. 00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:03.080 So, and sometimes you get fields of up to 120 riders, you know, out. 00:32:03.080 --> 00:32:05.840 So there's a lot of pushing and jostling and people getting run away with. 00:32:06.170 --> 00:32:09.620 And I remember one woman turning to him once and saying, how come you 00:32:09.620 --> 00:32:11.300 never get run away with by horses? 00:32:11.390 --> 00:32:13.190 And quite a lot of his horses were thoroughbreds. 00:32:13.490 --> 00:32:18.710 And he said, Madam, because if they did, I wouldn't be able to stop them. 00:32:21.020 --> 00:32:24.530 That was such a telling, because for him it was life or death. 00:32:24.860 --> 00:32:27.930 And then another life or death thing was, one of the guys who first 00:32:27.930 --> 00:32:32.490 turned me onto in hand work was a French master called Bernard Saxe. 00:32:32.700 --> 00:32:35.430 He's still out there and he's really interesting 'cause he's in a wheelchair. 00:32:35.730 --> 00:32:38.830 He was a stunt man and he broke his back during a stunt. 00:32:39.430 --> 00:32:42.520 And he does his in-hand work with someone standing behind him in 00:32:42.520 --> 00:32:43.990 the chair and maneuvering him. 00:32:43.990 --> 00:32:48.190 And they have to like read his mind for where he wants to be. 00:32:48.310 --> 00:32:49.510 It's amazing to watch. 00:32:49.840 --> 00:32:55.640 And I was watching him do it in an aisle of lucit stallions and the 00:32:55.670 --> 00:32:59.450 stallions could get their heads over the stable doors and they couldn't 00:32:59.510 --> 00:33:02.780 quite get their teeth into the other, but they could certainly threaten to. 00:33:03.260 --> 00:33:05.210 And I was looking at this going on. 00:33:05.210 --> 00:33:08.060 I said, Bernard, what are you gonna do if one of this horse 00:33:08.060 --> 00:33:09.500 like reacts and jumps on you? 00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:10.820 He says, well then Rupert, I would die. 00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:16.670 But he said, what you'll find Rupert, is that in general there 00:33:16.670 --> 00:33:22.610 are exceptions, but in general the horses will take on the personality. 00:33:23.180 --> 00:33:27.350 Of the culture, of the stable that you create yourself. 00:33:27.710 --> 00:33:30.140 You are the lead horse. 00:33:30.830 --> 00:33:36.500 And in my case, I choose for that to be pretty chill 00:33:37.130 --> 00:33:38.930 because my life depends on it. 00:33:39.350 --> 00:33:40.670 But yes, there, there's a risk. 00:33:40.675 --> 00:33:43.100 So those, I I, I absolutely agree with you on that. 00:33:43.370 --> 00:33:47.560 One of the other things which I, I find intriguing though is the feeling 00:33:47.560 --> 00:33:54.100 I get is that you are getting into this work of advocacy for thoroughbreds 00:33:54.970 --> 00:33:59.860 in special needs work and, and healing work as much to save the 00:33:59.860 --> 00:34:04.120 thoroughbred itself as to help monkeys. 00:34:04.750 --> 00:34:06.010 And I rather like that. 00:34:06.865 --> 00:34:08.755 Because I feel that's a very honest place to come from. 00:34:09.025 --> 00:34:10.645 Could you elucidate a little bit? 00:34:10.645 --> 00:34:15.145 You, you said earlier that the racing industry is the low hanging fruit. 00:34:15.295 --> 00:34:15.775 Okay. 00:34:15.775 --> 00:34:18.775 For not only for the animal rights industry what is an industry, 00:34:18.775 --> 00:34:22.795 actually animal rights industry, but also because of its unpopularity 00:34:22.825 --> 00:34:24.835 within the equestrian world. 00:34:25.075 --> 00:34:28.495 And I'm sorry, but a lot of the racing people are their own worst enemies. 00:34:28.495 --> 00:34:29.515 They do come across as wan. 00:34:29.515 --> 00:34:30.775 'cause a lot of them, they just do. 00:34:30.835 --> 00:34:31.915 I'm, you know, they do. 00:34:31.915 --> 00:34:36.265 And, and they could amend their behavior and just be cooler and 00:34:36.265 --> 00:34:37.765 maybe they'll have to be later. 00:34:37.765 --> 00:34:40.795 But up until now, they have been a fairly elitist close bunch. 00:34:40.945 --> 00:34:44.885 When you meet them, they're not terribly welcoming compared, but that doesn't 00:34:44.885 --> 00:34:46.355 mean they're wrong or evil or anything. 00:34:46.355 --> 00:34:48.875 It just means that they're a bit autistic and tribal. 00:34:49.445 --> 00:34:52.955 However that, that, that is a many people's experience. 00:34:53.135 --> 00:34:53.225 Yeah. 00:34:53.675 --> 00:34:54.815 That doesn't come out of nowhere. 00:34:55.275 --> 00:34:56.325 Same with the hunting people. 00:34:56.355 --> 00:34:58.065 You know, hunting people have been their own worst enemies. 00:34:58.065 --> 00:34:58.875 I should know. 00:34:58.875 --> 00:35:01.245 I, I loved hunting and I could watch them. 00:35:01.995 --> 00:35:05.325 Or shooting their own foot off, you know, as I was a teenager, think 00:35:05.325 --> 00:35:08.685 someone's gonna ban you guys, you know, because you just don't come across well. 00:35:09.075 --> 00:35:12.375 They've learned to come across better subsequently for the most part. 00:35:12.915 --> 00:35:18.945 But I do think that the breed itself, the tradition and all of 00:35:18.945 --> 00:35:20.745 that is something worth preserving. 00:35:21.195 --> 00:35:21.645 I do. 00:35:22.095 --> 00:35:27.915 And I don't think there's anything wrong with having that as also one 00:35:27.915 --> 00:35:30.735 of the reasons that you're coming to this, because like I say, I 00:35:30.735 --> 00:35:34.305 didn't, I didn't get into equine assisted work because I wanted to. 00:35:34.545 --> 00:35:35.085 I got into it. 00:35:35.085 --> 00:35:35.895 'cause I had to. 00:35:36.505 --> 00:35:39.115 And then I decided, well, if I'm in, I might as well try to get good at it. 00:35:39.925 --> 00:35:45.635 So why do you feel the thoroughbred itself might be under threat? 00:35:46.265 --> 00:35:51.545 And what can we do to help with that? 00:35:51.965 --> 00:35:55.655 Because I could see with that then we could also start looking at breeding. 00:35:56.765 --> 00:36:01.565 As you said, for other qualities as well that are not just speed, so, 00:36:01.715 --> 00:36:04.895 so why do you feel the thoroughbred needs protecting at this point? 00:36:06.545 --> 00:36:10.310 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I think it needs protecting from the racing industry. 00:36:10.710 --> 00:36:10.990 Okay. 00:36:11.500 --> 00:36:17.165 It's the racing industry that's under attack and when you have 00:36:17.675 --> 00:36:23.525 even be it just one horse that ends up in distress circumstances. 00:36:23.555 --> 00:36:23.645 Mm-hmm. 00:36:24.305 --> 00:36:28.955 One horse, too many no horses should fall through the net when 00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.070 they've retired from racing. 00:36:30.790 --> 00:36:31.030 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 00:36:32.520 --> 00:36:38.460 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And to me, equine assisted services seemed 00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:41.060 like a perfect symbiotic fit. 00:36:41.620 --> 00:36:41.700 Rupert Isaacson: Hmm. 00:36:42.515 --> 00:36:47.195 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I feel that it's a win-win situation for the equine assisted 00:36:47.195 --> 00:36:49.025 world and for the thoroughbred world. 00:36:49.415 --> 00:36:54.335 It's an opportunity for the thoroughbred world to give back to society in a very 00:36:54.335 --> 00:36:56.285 meaningful way and make a difference. 00:36:57.005 --> 00:37:02.615 And I think it's for the equine assisted world, it's a way of, as we said 00:37:02.615 --> 00:37:08.295 before, getting exposure and moving things along and getting equine therapy 00:37:08.295 --> 00:37:11.445 to a place where it's recognized by all governments around the world. 00:37:11.445 --> 00:37:12.225 And funded, 00:37:14.090 --> 00:37:15.765 Rupert Isaacson: funded is, is the key word there. 00:37:17.115 --> 00:37:21.855 The, the thoroughbred industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, but they 00:37:21.855 --> 00:37:31.495 are not known outside of certain programs for giving money to therapeutic programs. 00:37:31.555 --> 00:37:32.605 I said they're not known for it. 00:37:32.605 --> 00:37:34.135 I didn't say it doesn't happen. 00:37:34.935 --> 00:37:35.354 Right. 00:37:35.654 --> 00:37:36.254 And. 00:37:36.795 --> 00:37:39.045 How can we address that problem? 00:37:39.255 --> 00:37:44.745 Because right now it would offend anybody's sense of justice to see millions 00:37:44.745 --> 00:37:49.005 and millions of these horses being bred, tons of money being made on them, them 00:37:49.005 --> 00:37:54.015 being sort of discarded, and then when they come into their after lives, if, 00:37:54.015 --> 00:37:58.185 when they're lucky enough to do that, the people who take those on, whether 00:37:58.185 --> 00:38:02.535 it's for therapy or for repurposing them as leisure horses in some way 00:38:02.535 --> 00:38:08.115 or other, are not necessarily having any financial support to do that from 00:38:08.115 --> 00:38:11.505 the industry that has discarded them. 00:38:11.865 --> 00:38:15.464 Now, I know that's not the entirely accurate picture. 00:38:15.855 --> 00:38:18.915 Can you correct me where I'm wrong on that? 00:38:20.325 --> 00:38:21.975 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Well, there's something drastically 00:38:21.975 --> 00:38:22.755 wrong with that picture. 00:38:22.904 --> 00:38:23.085 Rupert Isaacson: Good. 00:38:23.145 --> 00:38:23.805 I'm relieved 00:38:24.525 --> 00:38:27.225 Suzi Prichard-Jones: every level that you, you look at it. 00:38:27.615 --> 00:38:27.975 Okay. 00:38:28.455 --> 00:38:29.714 And a hundred percent right. 00:38:30.225 --> 00:38:34.665 As we referred to earlier, the landscape has changed. 00:38:34.695 --> 00:38:39.135 We've gone from owner breeders to individual owners and syndicates, and 00:38:39.705 --> 00:38:41.865 so the land is not there to put them on. 00:38:42.465 --> 00:38:42.645 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:38:43.035 --> 00:38:48.825 Suzi Prichard-Jones: In the last 20 years, we've seen attempts by the thoroughbred 00:38:48.825 --> 00:38:57.384 industry to create organizations to filter horses coming from the racetrack to put 00:38:57.384 --> 00:39:04.265 them into competitive equestrian sports to put them into leisure and trail riding. 00:39:05.005 --> 00:39:08.605 We have some prison programs which are absolutely amazing. 00:39:08.935 --> 00:39:12.654 Run by the Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation in the States, they 00:39:12.654 --> 00:39:14.335 have eight as far as I know. 00:39:14.515 --> 00:39:14.694 Rupert Isaacson: Great. 00:39:14.694 --> 00:39:16.314 When the thoroughbreds retire, they get to go to jail. 00:39:16.794 --> 00:39:17.185 I'm just kidding. 00:39:17.605 --> 00:39:18.265 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Oh no. 00:39:18.415 --> 00:39:20.154 Rupert This's the most amazing thing. 00:39:20.154 --> 00:39:25.265 We have one in Ireland at re was the first equine program in a prison 00:39:25.265 --> 00:39:28.174 in Europe, and now I think there are two, if not three in England. 00:39:28.644 --> 00:39:29.349 But if you, and are 00:39:29.349 --> 00:39:31.074 Rupert Isaacson: they using those, by the way, for therapy or are they 00:39:31.074 --> 00:39:35.694 repurposing them there to then be passed on into the leisure industry? 00:39:36.049 --> 00:39:38.424 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Not, not necessarily repurposing them. 00:39:38.424 --> 00:39:42.834 What they're doing is they are creating, in most cases it's a six 00:39:42.834 --> 00:39:45.264 or 12 week course for the inmates. 00:39:46.494 --> 00:39:46.524 Okay. 00:39:46.524 --> 00:39:50.064 And they come and they just handle the horses, they lead them out, 00:39:50.064 --> 00:39:54.024 they pick their feet, they groom them if they need medical attention, 00:39:54.024 --> 00:39:55.764 wrapping bandages, things like that. 00:39:56.064 --> 00:39:58.554 They come out of it with a certificate. 00:39:59.574 --> 00:40:01.284 So it gives 'em a skillset. 00:40:01.359 --> 00:40:01.389 Okay. 00:40:02.799 --> 00:40:06.789 And that's where I wanted to talk to you further because I think 00:40:06.789 --> 00:40:08.739 we ought to have your wonderful 00:40:09.939 --> 00:40:10.009 Rupert Isaacson: I'm in, 00:40:10.419 --> 00:40:11.594 Suzi Prichard-Jones: in hand in, I'm 00:40:11.594 --> 00:40:11.674 Rupert Isaacson: in 00:40:12.009 --> 00:40:12.729 Suzi Prichard-Jones: all prisons. 00:40:13.059 --> 00:40:15.370 But that's something I'm advocating for at the moment. 00:40:15.819 --> 00:40:20.410 And if you think about the horses in prison, think about the prisoner 00:40:20.859 --> 00:40:27.910 who's emotionally shut down physically shut down in that he's devoid of one 00:40:27.910 --> 00:40:29.800 of your five senses, which is touch. 00:40:30.670 --> 00:40:36.220 And when you actually get to touch a horse, if you've been devoid of touch 00:40:36.220 --> 00:40:39.730 and you've deprived of it, that's huge. 00:40:40.120 --> 00:40:40.450 Rupert Isaacson: Indeed. 00:40:41.050 --> 00:40:43.134 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Physiological and emotional level that Yeah, 00:40:43.134 --> 00:40:45.215 Rupert Isaacson: well, oxytocin, absolutely serotonin. 00:40:45.430 --> 00:40:46.600 Suzi Prichard-Jones: That is huge. 00:40:47.200 --> 00:40:52.439 What they most people say, I've talked to a couple of people who've run the 00:40:52.439 --> 00:40:57.719 programs and I say, well, if, is there a word that you, one word to describe. 00:40:58.349 --> 00:41:03.969 And John Evans, who ran the Lowell Prison Program for 18 years, said, miraculous. 00:41:04.569 --> 00:41:05.739 No other word for it. 00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:06.939 The effect. 00:41:07.219 --> 00:41:08.929 Robert Hall Newcastle. 00:41:08.929 --> 00:41:13.309 Ray in Ireland said, empathy and hope. 00:41:14.689 --> 00:41:15.079 Business. 00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:15.379 Hope. 00:41:15.739 --> 00:41:15.949 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:41:15.949 --> 00:41:17.089 Social functionality. 00:41:17.089 --> 00:41:19.429 Horses are also social animals. 00:41:19.429 --> 00:41:19.669 Right. 00:41:19.699 --> 00:41:24.829 They demonstrate to us what healthy socialization actually looks like. 00:41:25.459 --> 00:41:25.519 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Yeah. 00:41:25.895 --> 00:41:28.225 Rupert Isaacson: If you're in the equine assisted field, or if you're 00:41:28.225 --> 00:41:32.655 considering a career in the equine assisted field, you might want to consider 00:41:32.725 --> 00:41:36.995 taking one of our three neuroscience backed equine assisted programs. 00:41:37.055 --> 00:41:42.635 Horseboy method, now established for 20 years, is the original 00:41:43.230 --> 00:41:49.540 Equine assisted program specifically designed for autism, mentored by and 00:41:49.540 --> 00:41:52.210 developed in conjunction with Dr. 00:41:52.210 --> 00:41:55.090 Temple Grandin and many other neuroscientists. 00:41:55.430 --> 00:41:58.700 We work in the saddle with younger children. 00:41:59.195 --> 00:42:04.145 Helping them create oxytocin in their bodies and neuroplasticity in the brain. 00:42:04.805 --> 00:42:06.245 It works incredibly well. 00:42:06.245 --> 00:42:07.965 It's now in about 40 countries. 00:42:08.675 --> 00:42:09.425 Check it out. 00:42:10.105 --> 00:42:14.255 If you're working without horses, you might want to look at movement 00:42:14.265 --> 00:42:17.635 method, which gets a very, very similar effect, but can also be 00:42:17.635 --> 00:42:19.385 applied in schools, in homes. 00:42:19.585 --> 00:42:24.575 If you're working with families, you can give them really tangible exercises to do 00:42:24.575 --> 00:42:26.115 at home that will create neuroplasticity. 00:42:27.470 --> 00:42:28.750 when they're not with you. 00:42:29.260 --> 00:42:32.700 Finally, we have taquine equine integration. 00:42:33.060 --> 00:42:35.680 If you know anything about our programs, you know that we need a 00:42:35.680 --> 00:42:39.680 really high standard of horsemanship in order to create the oxytocin 00:42:39.710 --> 00:42:44.000 in the body of the person that we're working with, child or adult. 00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:47.780 So, this means we need to train a horse in collection, but this 00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:52.040 also has a really beneficial effect on the horse's well being. 00:42:52.240 --> 00:42:56.530 And it also ends your time conflict, where you're wondering, oh my gosh, how 00:42:56.530 --> 00:42:59.830 am I going to condition my horses and maintain them and give them what they 00:42:59.830 --> 00:43:02.925 need, as well as Serving my clients. 00:43:03.165 --> 00:43:07.665 Takine equine integration aimed at a more adult client base 00:43:07.995 --> 00:43:09.645 absolutely gives you this. 00:43:09.755 --> 00:43:10.445 Okay. 00:43:11.045 --> 00:43:14.615 How much does it cost to run that prison program per year? 00:43:16.895 --> 00:43:18.905 Suzi Prichard-Jones: That, I don't know. 00:43:18.910 --> 00:43:20.040 The, the TRF. 00:43:20.140 --> 00:43:23.570 Provide the horses the prison service provide ERF 00:43:23.570 --> 00:43:24.440 Rupert Isaacson: stands for 00:43:24.740 --> 00:43:27.320 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Thorough Retirement Foundation in the state, 00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:28.155 Rupert Isaacson: which is run by, 00:43:28.940 --> 00:43:31.430 Suzi Prichard-Jones: which is run by the TRF, the Thoroughbred 00:43:31.430 --> 00:43:32.540 Retirement Foundation. 00:43:32.810 --> 00:43:32.840 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:43:33.500 --> 00:43:35.090 Suzi Prichard-Jones: An organization foundation. 00:43:35.090 --> 00:43:35.180 And 00:43:35.180 --> 00:43:36.290 Rupert Isaacson: where do they get their money from? 00:43:36.900 --> 00:43:39.150 Suzi Prichard-Jones: They like everything they fundraise. 00:43:39.780 --> 00:43:41.010 Rupert Isaacson: So this is my point. 00:43:41.220 --> 00:43:45.260 So for example, we, we talked about one of our Good Horse Boy programs. 00:43:45.260 --> 00:43:49.570 It's in one of our best, it's, it's in California Square Peg Foundation. 00:43:50.050 --> 00:43:53.650 Joel, who runs it, came up through the racing industry, as you know, was 00:43:53.650 --> 00:44:00.280 a 16-year-old single mom of a special needs kid, making her living as an 00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:04.120 exercise rider in the very, very tough world of the American race tracks. 00:44:04.120 --> 00:44:07.090 And, you know, she's now graduated to having, you know, 00:44:07.090 --> 00:44:09.160 this incredible, organization. 00:44:09.220 --> 00:44:12.280 Everyone who's listening, if you dunno, square Peg Foundation, look 00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:14.320 it up now and check out what they do. 00:44:14.350 --> 00:44:15.100 'cause it's amazing. 00:44:15.610 --> 00:44:20.710 And she does get grants from the OTTB, the Off the Track 00:44:20.710 --> 00:44:22.540 Thoroughbred what's the B for? 00:44:22.600 --> 00:44:24.280 Oh, off track TB Thoroughbred Yeah. 00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:26.500 Association in the USA. 00:44:26.560 --> 00:44:32.260 And they do give to her relatively significantly in terms of the date, you 00:44:32.260 --> 00:44:34.270 know, the yearly budget that she has. 00:44:34.510 --> 00:44:37.000 But I'm looking how, I just Googled while you, you were chatting. 00:44:37.240 --> 00:44:41.110 So I wanted to say, what, how much does the racing industry generate? 00:44:41.320 --> 00:44:46.840 So the first thing that comes up in Google for now, it's 127 billion. 00:44:48.130 --> 00:44:48.340 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Well, right. 00:44:48.340 --> 00:44:48.580 So 00:44:49.150 --> 00:44:49.750 Rupert Isaacson: if that, yeah. 00:44:49.750 --> 00:44:51.190 If that is indeed true. 00:44:51.190 --> 00:44:52.210 And, you know, who knows? 00:44:52.780 --> 00:44:54.550 Just 'cause Google says it's true, doesn't mean it's true. 00:44:54.550 --> 00:44:57.490 But let's say it's, you know, significant amount of dos. 00:44:59.110 --> 00:45:04.210 Well, I haven't seen any and when I've gone and done now 00:45:04.510 --> 00:45:05.680 that's not entirely true. 00:45:06.745 --> 00:45:12.175 But it can appear that way because my program, okay, it's not my program, but 00:45:12.175 --> 00:45:17.275 a program that I've trained over there in California, it is supported then Le Skin. 00:45:17.275 --> 00:45:21.625 It has definitely been supported by people within the racing industry. 00:45:21.775 --> 00:45:22.345 That's it. 00:45:22.375 --> 00:45:25.710 David Dole's amazing place in counting Limerick and so on and so on. 00:45:25.710 --> 00:45:30.155 So it's not true that there is no support and some of that support has been quite 00:45:30.155 --> 00:45:35.945 significant, but there isn't a sort of recognizable institutional thing yet. 00:45:36.125 --> 00:45:40.655 You know, where the racing industry somehow as a whole comes together and 00:45:40.655 --> 00:45:46.985 says, okay, out of this 127 billion or whatever it is, we are going to 00:45:47.375 --> 00:45:54.545 create a 5% budget or a 10% budget to look after to do the right thing. 00:45:55.415 --> 00:45:57.005 That has not yet. 00:45:58.010 --> 00:45:59.900 Leapt into the public consciousness. 00:46:00.350 --> 00:46:03.440 It is happening here and there for sure. 00:46:03.620 --> 00:46:06.620 And where it is we need to give credit where credit is due, and 00:46:06.620 --> 00:46:07.430 that's what I'm trying to do. 00:46:07.640 --> 00:46:09.380 But nonetheless, the perception is not that. 00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:13.720 And what can we do, you know, when there's that kind of money around, you 00:46:13.720 --> 00:46:19.340 know, it does just beg the question, why on earth aren't we seeing really 00:46:19.340 --> 00:46:25.370 significant, noticeable in the public consciousness kind of, support that way. 00:46:25.790 --> 00:46:28.850 And that could be, as you say, simply because it's taken 00:46:28.855 --> 00:46:30.320 a while just to catch up. 00:46:31.160 --> 00:46:35.150 But now that we are having this conversation, people like you within the 00:46:35.150 --> 00:46:39.470 industry are having this conversation with each other as well as with people like me. 00:46:40.700 --> 00:46:43.640 What do you think the plan for that is because of, you know, that that's, 00:46:43.640 --> 00:46:46.400 from an outsider's perspective, that's just the logical question to us. 00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:47.420 I got a lot of dos. 00:46:47.600 --> 00:46:48.140 Let's see it. 00:46:49.805 --> 00:46:54.125 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I think there's, there's two sections to that question. 00:46:54.695 --> 00:47:01.925 The first is the aftercare situation, and we talked about changing landscape and the 00:47:01.925 --> 00:47:04.085 industry being somewhat on the back foot. 00:47:04.732 --> 00:47:07.522 so they're catch they're playing catch up. 00:47:08.062 --> 00:47:08.512 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:47:09.013 --> 00:47:14.353 Suzi Prichard-Jones: What happened was you had some philanthropic individuals 00:47:14.653 --> 00:47:18.823 who looked at the situation, said, right, this is what we need to do, 00:47:19.153 --> 00:47:22.963 and they set up the Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation one day. 00:47:23.653 --> 00:47:26.623 Then they set up the Thoroughbred Charities of America. 00:47:27.673 --> 00:47:31.033 Then Jack will set up Thoroughbred Aftercare Alliance. 00:47:31.693 --> 00:47:33.823 Those are the three biggies. 00:47:33.883 --> 00:47:38.173 And they give out, all three of them, give out two of them 00:47:38.173 --> 00:47:40.213 give out grants every year. 00:47:41.143 --> 00:47:45.283 The TAA accredit, different REHOMING facilities. 00:47:46.813 --> 00:47:47.863 So that's working. 00:47:47.893 --> 00:47:53.713 What, what went wrong there is, it wasn't one of our so-called institutions 00:47:54.613 --> 00:47:58.723 such as the Jockey Club that said, or a main body, like the Thoroughbred 00:47:58.723 --> 00:48:00.673 Owners and Breeders Association. 00:48:00.673 --> 00:48:01.213 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:48:01.633 --> 00:48:04.153 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Said, right, this is an issue. 00:48:04.183 --> 00:48:06.313 We need to take care of this. 00:48:06.733 --> 00:48:12.193 No, it was about five individuals who did this off their own 00:48:12.193 --> 00:48:15.013 backs and set organizations up. 00:48:15.103 --> 00:48:18.943 And then everybody else said, oh, well, you know, it's all taken care of. 00:48:19.513 --> 00:48:21.493 That's one aspect. 00:48:21.853 --> 00:48:22.033 So. 00:48:22.753 --> 00:48:28.483 What I'm trying to do now, because I, I have absolutely zero affiliation to 00:48:28.483 --> 00:48:35.113 anybody and I'm totally independent, is I go and shake the trees and say, you 00:48:35.113 --> 00:48:36.823 need to do this, you need to do that. 00:48:37.423 --> 00:48:44.413 One of the, the big issues I ran into was, yes, if we give money, where's 00:48:44.413 --> 00:48:46.998 it going to, where's the money going? 00:48:47.053 --> 00:48:47.203 Where's 00:48:47.203 --> 00:48:48.133 Rupert Isaacson: the accountability? 00:48:48.283 --> 00:48:48.643 Yeah. 00:48:49.123 --> 00:48:53.433 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And it just struck me about when I was at Kentucky a couple of 00:48:53.433 --> 00:48:56.253 weeks ago and I went, that's what's wrong. 00:48:56.703 --> 00:49:03.753 We've got to build a structure first that's totally transparent so people 00:49:03.753 --> 00:49:05.973 can see where the money's going to. 00:49:06.573 --> 00:49:07.083 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 00:49:07.473 --> 00:49:09.098 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And it's got to be the jock. 00:49:09.198 --> 00:49:09.418 How 00:49:09.418 --> 00:49:09.858 Rupert Isaacson: do we do that? 00:49:10.533 --> 00:49:14.283 Suzi Prichard-Jones: The Jockey Club has to be the umbrella organization that 00:49:14.283 --> 00:49:17.373 receives the funds and distributes the 00:49:17.378 --> 00:49:17.458 Rupert Isaacson: fund. 00:49:18.258 --> 00:49:21.438 Suzi Prichard-Jones: You keep all the other layers in place. 00:49:22.368 --> 00:49:24.948 So that's the first part of your question. 00:49:25.218 --> 00:49:27.978 The second part of your question is more interesting. 00:49:28.848 --> 00:49:30.768 I've grown up in this industry. 00:49:32.148 --> 00:49:34.758 It was only when I saw the i a video. 00:49:35.178 --> 00:49:35.958 When was that? 00:49:36.168 --> 00:49:40.608 2019 perhaps that they made that they went to normal. 00:49:40.608 --> 00:49:40.788 Something 00:49:40.788 --> 00:49:41.148 Rupert Isaacson: like that. 00:49:41.148 --> 00:49:41.358 Yeah. 00:49:41.358 --> 00:49:42.288 Relatively recent. 00:49:42.708 --> 00:49:49.818 Suzi Prichard-Jones: It was only then that this whole world of EAS came on my radar. 00:49:50.208 --> 00:49:52.308 I didn't know anything about what you were doing. 00:49:52.308 --> 00:49:54.168 I didn't know what anybody was doing. 00:49:54.378 --> 00:49:57.078 I knew about the RDA writing for the disabled. 00:49:57.078 --> 00:49:59.028 I used to in my twenties. 00:49:59.028 --> 00:50:02.388 I volunteered with that, so I knew about that. 00:50:02.898 --> 00:50:07.008 They don't know is, is the short answer. 00:50:08.508 --> 00:50:11.868 And when I took, I, I spent the last few years. 00:50:12.498 --> 00:50:15.048 Around doing a lot of research and finding out the different 00:50:15.288 --> 00:50:18.138 places that are providing EAS. 00:50:18.948 --> 00:50:21.108 And I talk to various people and I go, do you know soa? 00:50:22.008 --> 00:50:23.538 And they go, no. 00:50:24.528 --> 00:50:26.383 And I go, well, they're doing the same thing that you are doing. 00:50:26.923 --> 00:50:27.213 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:50:28.848 --> 00:50:30.108 Suzi Prichard-Jones: You need to talk to soa. 00:50:30.828 --> 00:50:31.128 Who's that? 00:50:32.208 --> 00:50:36.228 And it's a bit like the thoroughbred aftercare field. 00:50:37.338 --> 00:50:40.248 A lot of these are sole practitioners. 00:50:40.728 --> 00:50:41.028 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:50:41.808 --> 00:50:43.458 Suzi Prichard-Jones: They have this concept. 00:50:43.998 --> 00:50:48.468 They bring the concept to fruition that takes energy. 00:50:48.888 --> 00:50:51.498 Then they have to run it on a daily basis. 00:50:52.038 --> 00:50:52.308 Absolutely. 00:50:52.878 --> 00:50:55.638 That fundraise it because where's the money coming from? 00:50:55.638 --> 00:50:58.578 Because they've now about run outta of money. 00:50:59.118 --> 00:51:03.078 So that takes so much more energy and you come to them and say, 00:51:03.168 --> 00:51:04.548 you need to talk to so and so. 00:51:04.938 --> 00:51:07.008 They're just trying to keep their head above water. 00:51:07.248 --> 00:51:07.308 Yeah. 00:51:08.028 --> 00:51:10.008 And they don't have the energy. 00:51:10.638 --> 00:51:13.968 They may or may not have the skillset to take it to the next level. 00:51:14.688 --> 00:51:20.958 So you see that in the aftercare situation with all these, so 00:51:21.198 --> 00:51:24.498 people, individual people who are doing rescue, running rescue farms. 00:51:24.798 --> 00:51:28.368 And you see it in the equine assisted therapy world. 00:51:28.698 --> 00:51:28.968 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:51:29.418 --> 00:51:31.038 Suzi Prichard-Jones: It's generally, and the other problem 00:51:31.038 --> 00:51:32.958 is it's generally all women. 00:51:33.708 --> 00:51:33.798 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 00:51:34.368 --> 00:51:35.118 Suzi Prichard-Jones: When you 00:51:35.118 --> 00:51:36.078 Rupert Isaacson: can, why is that a problem? 00:51:37.038 --> 00:51:42.168 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Because you are going into an environment in, certainly in the 00:51:42.168 --> 00:51:47.628 racing world and in, for a large part in the corporate world that's male dominated. 00:51:49.458 --> 00:51:56.548 And somebody said to me during the summer that he'd mentioned the RDA 00:51:57.478 --> 00:52:01.978 writing for the disabled, and this colleague of his turned round and went. 00:52:02.728 --> 00:52:03.958 Ah, yeah. 00:52:05.128 --> 00:52:08.668 You mean women of a certain age leading the pony from the 00:52:08.668 --> 00:52:10.228 coffee shop to the hairdresser? 00:52:10.288 --> 00:52:10.828 Yes. 00:52:11.458 --> 00:52:14.818 And that's the thing, it's like you're a silly, sentimental woman. 00:52:14.818 --> 00:52:20.158 That's what women do, but we're businessmen, so you have to bring 00:52:20.158 --> 00:52:24.688 it into their world and say, Hey, you know, this is important stuff. 00:52:24.958 --> 00:52:28.318 We've got a mental health crisis in the western world. 00:52:29.128 --> 00:52:29.488 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:52:29.848 --> 00:52:33.058 Suzi Prichard-Jones: The racing industry, you have a social license that you 00:52:33.058 --> 00:52:34.408 better buck up and pay attention. 00:52:34.828 --> 00:52:35.128 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 00:52:35.128 --> 00:52:39.688 And you also, by the way, also have a bunch of lost boy sons. 00:52:40.288 --> 00:52:40.438 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Yeah. 00:52:40.438 --> 00:52:40.948 Grandsons 00:52:40.948 --> 00:52:44.728 Rupert Isaacson: and nephews who need this help. 00:52:45.208 --> 00:52:45.268 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Yeah. 00:52:45.378 --> 00:52:48.438 Rupert Isaacson: You know what's so interesting is that when I've 00:52:48.438 --> 00:52:54.228 been at shindigs of upper levels of the horse sport world could be, 00:52:54.438 --> 00:52:57.528 you know, not necessarily racing necessarily, but a lot of them, when 00:52:57.528 --> 00:52:58.498 you actually get talking to people. 00:52:59.283 --> 00:53:01.623 You find out that so many of them individually in their 00:53:01.623 --> 00:53:03.333 families have something going on. 00:53:03.993 --> 00:53:09.153 But they of course, are very private and they're, the old 00:53:09.153 --> 00:53:11.133 school was also not to complain. 00:53:11.763 --> 00:53:16.053 And the old old school was to put 'em way out of sight. 00:53:17.193 --> 00:53:24.593 And so given that the horse industry is an old, old school thing it's 00:53:24.593 --> 00:53:28.043 not surprising that the ethic of we don't really want to look at it and 00:53:28.043 --> 00:53:33.293 we don't really want to deal with it, is still to some degree there. 00:53:33.293 --> 00:53:36.443 But I do think that that tip, I think we've reached a tipping point. 00:53:36.473 --> 00:53:38.753 I think that that has tipped over now. 00:53:39.173 --> 00:53:43.313 And equally when you said, you know, the corporate world and the racing 00:53:43.313 --> 00:53:48.193 world is largely male, we also know that that is changing and changing 00:53:48.193 --> 00:53:51.553 quite rapidly actually, particularly on the business side of things that, 00:53:51.553 --> 00:53:54.013 that the corporate world is changing. 00:53:54.803 --> 00:54:00.623 From the bottom up, just because the sheer number of people going into the corporate 00:54:00.623 --> 00:54:02.303 world now is, is more female than male. 00:54:02.603 --> 00:54:06.278 At, at the younger, at the younger because they're the ones who 00:54:06.308 --> 00:54:07.778 are doing better at university. 00:54:08.228 --> 00:54:11.648 So, but we don't wanna hang around for that change. 00:54:11.738 --> 00:54:15.458 And it doesn't mean that just because the men at the top may eventually get replaced 00:54:15.458 --> 00:54:19.508 by women at the top, that they shouldn't do the right thing while they're there. 00:54:19.988 --> 00:54:24.878 So it is interesting to me, this thing that you say of, of when people present 00:54:24.878 --> 00:54:26.618 themselves as well, I'm a businessman. 00:54:26.828 --> 00:54:28.508 Why should I care about that? 00:54:29.048 --> 00:54:30.668 That, that's never made any sense to me. 00:54:30.998 --> 00:54:37.268 It was like, well, whether you're a businessman or a street sweeper or a 00:54:38.618 --> 00:54:42.548 priest or a, I don't know, whatever you are, you're a human being alive on 00:54:42.548 --> 00:54:44.978 planet earth, you'll be dead some, and, 00:54:45.008 --> 00:54:45.398 Suzi Prichard-Jones: it's this thing 00:54:45.398 --> 00:54:46.328 Rupert Isaacson: called the Golden Rule, right? 00:54:46.688 --> 00:54:48.038 Why not do some good if you can? 00:54:48.158 --> 00:54:48.398 Yeah, 00:54:49.208 --> 00:54:50.588 Suzi Prichard-Jones: no, I'm on my track. 00:54:50.618 --> 00:54:52.838 I have my title, my position. 00:54:53.648 --> 00:54:53.738 Yeah. 00:54:53.738 --> 00:54:54.788 I'm making money. 00:54:54.938 --> 00:54:57.038 This is, do you know what I'm worth? 00:54:57.248 --> 00:54:57.608 You know? 00:54:57.638 --> 00:54:58.028 Do you see? 00:54:58.028 --> 00:54:58.303 Yeah, yeah, sure. 00:54:58.568 --> 00:55:01.058 I think that's, these are my priorities. 00:55:01.058 --> 00:55:04.628 Don't have some woman come to me about, you know, ponies 00:55:05.108 --> 00:55:05.528 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:55:05.888 --> 00:55:06.908 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And mental health 00:55:07.388 --> 00:55:09.968 Rupert Isaacson: or some idiot hippie, you know, like me. 00:55:09.968 --> 00:55:10.388 Yeah. 00:55:10.668 --> 00:55:14.963 Suzi Prichard-Jones: So there's that mentality, but life comes 00:55:14.963 --> 00:55:17.173 at us all and it doesn't care. 00:55:17.473 --> 00:55:22.033 You know, what you drive or who you are or, you know, yeah. 00:55:22.153 --> 00:55:24.223 We come to the, we come to the part. 00:55:24.433 --> 00:55:26.923 All of us at some point in life come to the part where we 00:55:26.923 --> 00:55:28.648 have to say, uncle, don't we? 00:55:28.813 --> 00:55:30.343 We sort of rot back on our hos. 00:55:30.343 --> 00:55:34.123 And Indeed and you, you get a quick life lesson and you've got 00:55:34.123 --> 00:55:35.528 to get your priorities suited. 00:55:35.833 --> 00:55:39.853 I think we just have a huge opportunity here with the right, 00:55:39.853 --> 00:55:43.693 Rupert Isaacson: so, so let's talk about what needs to happen on quote unquote your 00:55:43.693 --> 00:55:46.933 end, which is the industry end and what quote needs to happen on quote unquote 00:55:47.023 --> 00:55:49.543 our end, which is the practitioner side. 00:55:49.903 --> 00:55:52.093 So you mentioned, let's get start with your end first. 00:55:52.093 --> 00:55:53.353 So you mentioned the jockey club. 00:55:53.443 --> 00:55:53.773 Right. 00:55:54.163 --> 00:56:01.543 Who currently, to my knowledge, do not have some easy to find really big 00:56:01.543 --> 00:56:07.063 philanthropic thing for equine assisted work combined with thoroughbred aftercare. 00:56:07.453 --> 00:56:09.253 Unless I'm wrong and I could well be wrong. 00:56:09.583 --> 00:56:13.843 So what do we need to do for them to get them to buck up? 00:56:13.873 --> 00:56:14.593 That's the first thing. 00:56:14.593 --> 00:56:18.943 And then let's talk after that about what we need with people like me so that 00:56:18.943 --> 00:56:21.763 we can buck up to meet that challenge. 00:56:23.473 --> 00:56:25.888 Suzi Prichard-Jones: It comes down to structure with it, I think. 00:56:26.028 --> 00:56:26.448 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 00:56:27.398 --> 00:56:30.643 Suzi Prichard-Jones: When I first started to look at the equine assisted world. 00:56:31.528 --> 00:56:35.668 It was just so overwhelmingly fragmented. 00:56:36.328 --> 00:56:38.098 I couldn't make any sense outta it. 00:56:38.518 --> 00:56:38.938 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:56:39.358 --> 00:56:45.958 Suzi Prichard-Jones: It needs structure and what I see today is 00:56:46.018 --> 00:56:53.008 that Horse Boy is an organization that has created a community. 00:56:53.518 --> 00:56:53.608 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 00:56:54.038 --> 00:56:56.768 Suzi Prichard-Jones: You have three distinct modules. 00:56:56.858 --> 00:57:03.218 You have the Horse Boy module, you have the movement method, and you have kin, and 00:57:03.218 --> 00:57:06.728 you have certification in all of those. 00:57:07.518 --> 00:57:11.988 I think Hos Boy is the place to start. 00:57:12.558 --> 00:57:18.918 I think you have to, if you're talking about equine assisted services, you have 00:57:18.918 --> 00:57:24.378 to be able to put something in front of somebody and say, there's a book. 00:57:24.673 --> 00:57:24.893 Rupert Isaacson: Mm. 00:57:26.778 --> 00:57:26.928 Suzi Prichard-Jones: You, you've. 00:57:27.333 --> 00:57:32.163 A room full of shelves with things like this on it, or pull one of 00:57:32.163 --> 00:57:34.083 those down and say, this is the book. 00:57:34.923 --> 00:57:36.573 So they, they know what it is. 00:57:36.573 --> 00:57:39.243 They can touch it, feel it, understand it. 00:57:40.503 --> 00:57:40.803 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:57:40.803 --> 00:57:42.153 That's what we can do on our end. 00:57:42.303 --> 00:57:43.803 Suzi Prichard-Jones: But one of, one of the things, 00:57:44.073 --> 00:57:47.703 Rupert Isaacson: how do we, let's say, let's say I go with you 00:57:47.973 --> 00:57:48.213 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Yeah. 00:57:48.693 --> 00:57:52.203 Rupert Isaacson: Into a room with the Jockey Club dudes, and we are like, 00:57:52.203 --> 00:57:56.223 all right, we're here to get you guys to do the right thing effectively. 00:57:56.883 --> 00:57:57.783 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Now you've gotta show them, 00:57:58.143 --> 00:58:00.363 Rupert Isaacson: well, okay, fine. 00:58:00.933 --> 00:58:06.153 But nonetheless, there has to be, we will of course do our damnedest to do that 00:58:08.343 --> 00:58:11.913 at the same time, of course there needs to be a certain will on the 00:58:11.913 --> 00:58:14.403 end of the people of the Jockey Club folks, the people you're going into the 00:58:14.403 --> 00:58:19.743 room with, to be somewhat be disposed to do something other than say no. 00:58:20.703 --> 00:58:21.513 And. 00:58:22.773 --> 00:58:24.723 Of course one would think, well that's just a human thing. 00:58:24.723 --> 00:58:27.123 Of course they would want to support this type of thing 'cause 00:58:27.123 --> 00:58:27.873 it's the right thing to do. 00:58:27.873 --> 00:58:28.383 But no. 00:58:28.623 --> 00:58:33.873 So what do we need to do to change the culture within, say, the Jockey Club to 00:58:33.903 --> 00:58:38.793 be predisposed to act philanthropically 00:58:40.473 --> 00:58:43.443 Suzi Prichard-Jones: towards equine assisted services? 00:58:43.773 --> 00:58:44.848 Rupert Isaacson: In this particular case? 00:58:44.868 --> 00:58:45.088 Yes. 00:58:45.088 --> 00:58:48.453 Because I guess you could, you could say that the, that's actually a good point 00:58:48.453 --> 00:58:52.233 that you make because you could say that the injured jockey fund has been doing 00:58:52.233 --> 00:58:54.963 that philanthropically for generations. 00:58:55.063 --> 00:58:58.873 And they do do quite a lot of work to try to look after they're humans. 00:58:59.383 --> 00:59:01.003 It's now just the next stage. 00:59:01.183 --> 00:59:03.433 How do we, yeah. 00:59:03.493 --> 00:59:05.263 How does one affect that culture? 00:59:05.443 --> 00:59:06.733 I, I totally take your point. 00:59:06.733 --> 00:59:09.523 That one needs to go in there with a good structure and all of that 00:59:09.523 --> 00:59:18.013 stuff, but if there isn't a basic predisposition to do the right thing. 00:59:19.758 --> 00:59:22.668 No matter how good your structures are, you're dealing with someone 00:59:22.668 --> 00:59:25.638 who really doesn't want to hear what you've gotta say. 00:59:26.628 --> 00:59:28.188 So that's a cultural thing. 00:59:28.938 --> 00:59:31.908 Suzi Prichard-Jones: It it's not so much culture as an educational thing. 00:59:32.178 --> 00:59:32.568 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:59:33.198 --> 00:59:34.128 How do you separate the two? 00:59:34.488 --> 00:59:36.558 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I promise you they don't know. 00:59:37.038 --> 00:59:37.128 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 00:59:38.028 --> 00:59:41.958 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Nobody knows about equine assisted services, 00:59:42.318 --> 00:59:43.308 Rupert Isaacson: so we need to go talk. 00:59:43.848 --> 00:59:46.458 Suzi Prichard-Jones: People in the racing industry, equine assisted services, 00:59:46.458 --> 00:59:51.438 they look at me and they pause for a moment and then they go, ah, you 00:59:51.438 --> 00:59:52.818 mean writing for the disabled, right? 00:59:53.748 --> 00:59:56.748 I go, yeah, but it's so much more than that. 00:59:57.048 --> 01:00:04.008 So that's where the equine assisted world has not, you haven't gotten your message 01:00:04.008 --> 01:00:06.328 out to explain to people this Yeah. 01:00:06.978 --> 01:00:09.348 Doing, this is the science behind it. 01:00:09.468 --> 01:00:13.848 Do you know how long it took me to find this amazing person called Rupert 01:00:13.848 --> 01:00:22.578 Isaacson, who was standing on a video with a video by a whiteboard, drawing out 01:00:22.878 --> 01:00:30.528 little stick man and showing oxytocin and cortisol and the Kinsey cells and beating. 01:00:30.528 --> 01:00:30.648 Well, 01:00:30.648 --> 01:00:31.248 Rupert Isaacson: you're good. 01:00:32.958 --> 01:00:34.518 Suzi Prichard-Jones: That took me forever to find. 01:00:36.318 --> 01:00:36.648 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:00:36.888 --> 01:00:39.978 Well, I'll tell you why it took you forever to find, because 01:00:40.878 --> 01:00:41.478 Suzi Prichard-Jones: when 01:00:41.718 --> 01:00:44.478 Rupert Isaacson: the Jockey Club doesn't give me a million bucks a 01:00:44.478 --> 01:00:45.918 year to go out and publicize it. 01:00:45.978 --> 01:00:47.988 And so the difficulty is that we do what we can. 01:00:47.988 --> 01:00:48.168 Right? 01:00:48.168 --> 01:00:52.638 So we, we do put stuff out on YouTube and we do, but if we were to do like 01:00:52.638 --> 01:00:58.218 an actual publicity campaign, we would need that funded and we'd have to, 01:00:58.218 --> 01:01:02.508 we would have to quo, we would have to justify why we are using that. 01:01:03.228 --> 01:01:06.648 To fly our flag rather than to do the work. 01:01:06.888 --> 01:01:10.968 So up until now, because you know, let's say we've been around for 20 years, 01:01:11.868 --> 01:01:15.998 what we've tended to spend our money on when we've fundraised is services 01:01:16.628 --> 01:01:21.428 servicing people and helping new places get started and giving grants to 01:01:21.428 --> 01:01:23.318 those new places and so on and so on. 01:01:23.318 --> 01:01:24.488 Because that's where the need is. 01:01:24.488 --> 01:01:30.008 If you're in my position, I'm a dad, you know, if I'm choosing to spend this dollar 01:01:30.488 --> 01:01:36.218 here to educate people, even though I know long term we need to, and here to serve 01:01:36.218 --> 01:01:39.428 this family who's in crisis, well I know where I'm gonna spend that, that dollar. 01:01:40.028 --> 01:01:46.928 So that is of course, exactly what the equine assisted world needs from 01:01:46.958 --> 01:01:51.428 the more established entity is the money to go out and do that education. 01:01:51.428 --> 01:01:53.258 'cause it's not just to the horse industry, it's to 01:01:53.853 --> 01:01:54.893 government and to government. 01:01:55.118 --> 01:01:55.448 Yeah. 01:01:56.018 --> 01:01:57.758 Regulatory bodies and so forth. 01:01:57.788 --> 01:02:00.428 Insurance companies, you know, all of that. 01:02:00.908 --> 01:02:02.708 So I, I'm, I'm with you. 01:02:03.048 --> 01:02:06.498 It's just that, as you said, you answered that point earlier where you said, well, 01:02:06.498 --> 01:02:10.368 people are so busy kind of doing what they're doing and bootstrapping it. 01:02:11.208 --> 01:02:16.218 And you know, like for if I go to talk to the Jockey Club, for example, 01:02:16.428 --> 01:02:21.018 let's say we actually do that, which means you say Rupert at two o'clock on 01:02:21.018 --> 01:02:22.758 Tuesday, there's something of something. 01:02:23.298 --> 01:02:27.918 We are going to go and have this meeting in Virginia or Ireland or Kentucky 01:02:27.978 --> 01:02:31.008 or new Market or wherever, right? 01:02:31.338 --> 01:02:36.228 So I will then have to get my butt on a plane, go there. 01:02:36.288 --> 01:02:43.188 It's gonna cost me a minimum of 2K to just go there and make my case minimum. 01:02:43.308 --> 01:02:46.998 That's before we've even talked about, I don't know. 01:02:47.848 --> 01:02:50.548 Maybe doing two or three more places because then you say, 01:02:50.548 --> 01:02:51.718 okay, well now we're on the road. 01:02:51.898 --> 01:02:54.628 Maybe actually we should also go to the French and we should also go to 01:02:54.628 --> 01:02:56.308 the Irish and dah, dah, dah, dah. 01:02:56.428 --> 01:02:58.498 So now it becomes 5K, six K 01:02:59.218 --> 01:03:00.418 Suzi Prichard-Jones: and nothing will have happened 01:03:00.868 --> 01:03:02.398 Rupert Isaacson: and the day, 01:03:02.638 --> 01:03:02.848 Suzi Prichard-Jones: nothing. 01:03:02.848 --> 01:03:03.028 Right. 01:03:03.028 --> 01:03:05.938 Rupert Isaacson: And those, and it's not like the organization has said, 01:03:06.538 --> 01:03:08.068 Hey, we, we've heard about you. 01:03:08.068 --> 01:03:08.638 This is great. 01:03:08.668 --> 01:03:11.158 Here's six K, come and talk to us. 01:03:11.158 --> 01:03:11.608 Right. 01:03:12.718 --> 01:03:16.498 So I'm not saying we can't get around this issue. 01:03:17.328 --> 01:03:23.298 I'm just exploring the practicalities of how do we strategize this? 01:03:23.298 --> 01:03:25.008 You are sitting there within the racing industry. 01:03:25.008 --> 01:03:30.528 I'm sitting here with a product that works for the racing industry and for the 01:03:31.158 --> 01:03:31.758 Suzi Prichard-Jones: humanity. 01:03:31.758 --> 01:03:32.838 Rupert Isaacson: We would get served by the thorough. 01:03:33.348 --> 01:03:34.698 So how do we reach 'em? 01:03:35.463 --> 01:03:38.688 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Well, I think what you, you have to remember 01:03:38.688 --> 01:03:43.968 is the equine assisted service industry is a new industry. 01:03:44.268 --> 01:03:44.718 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:03:45.138 --> 01:03:48.918 Suzi Prichard-Jones: So you are doing what you would do in any new 01:03:48.918 --> 01:03:52.458 industry is you are working the grassroots, you are making your family. 01:03:52.458 --> 01:03:52.728 Absolutely. 01:03:53.508 --> 01:03:56.328 And that's where you have to spend your time and energy and money. 01:03:57.228 --> 01:04:00.708 And you've been doing that for the last 20, 25 years. 01:04:00.768 --> 01:04:01.278 Am I right? 01:04:01.758 --> 01:04:02.088 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:04:03.048 --> 01:04:04.758 Not to mention bring my own son up, you know? 01:04:04.818 --> 01:04:04.998 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Yeah. 01:04:05.568 --> 01:04:08.148 Rupert Isaacson: Which is a certain thing as well. 01:04:08.148 --> 01:04:08.508 Yeah. 01:04:08.958 --> 01:04:14.038 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And I met Rowan at tribe in this August and he's 01:04:14.038 --> 01:04:16.918 the most lovely, lovely young man. 01:04:17.188 --> 01:04:19.138 And he's got a beautiful speaking voice. 01:04:19.318 --> 01:04:19.498 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:04:19.503 --> 01:04:19.633 He does 01:04:20.248 --> 01:04:21.958 Suzi Prichard-Jones: most gorgeous speaking voice. 01:04:22.618 --> 01:04:25.648 And I came away from that and I thought, oh my God. 01:04:26.638 --> 01:04:32.608 Rupert was told that, you know, when he was, what, three and a half that this is? 01:04:32.638 --> 01:04:32.908 Yeah. 01:04:32.908 --> 01:04:33.448 That's it. 01:04:33.658 --> 01:04:35.398 We can't do anymore from you on your own. 01:04:36.008 --> 01:04:38.768 And the same that with David Doyle's daughter. 01:04:38.768 --> 01:04:39.908 Take her home and love her. 01:04:41.003 --> 01:04:45.653 And I thought about Rowan and he's a big boy. 01:04:45.683 --> 01:04:46.463 He's a big man. 01:04:46.763 --> 01:04:47.153 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:04:47.543 --> 01:04:48.413 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And he's strong. 01:04:49.583 --> 01:04:49.673 Yeah. 01:04:49.673 --> 01:04:50.633 A gentle giant. 01:04:51.023 --> 01:04:51.083 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:04:51.083 --> 01:04:51.173 And 01:04:52.373 --> 01:04:55.523 Suzi Prichard-Jones: had Rupert not gone on this journey and been 01:04:55.793 --> 01:05:00.683 curious and inquisitive and you know, just to tenacious about, you 01:05:00.683 --> 01:05:05.213 know, finding a way through this and finding Temple Brandon Rowan would 01:05:05.213 --> 01:05:07.673 be a young man now who was nonverbal. 01:05:08.243 --> 01:05:12.983 Can you imagine how frustrated and how angry he would be? 01:05:13.433 --> 01:05:13.703 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:05:13.973 --> 01:05:16.313 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I mean, it's a totally different scenario. 01:05:16.583 --> 01:05:19.493 Those are the sort of stories that you need to 01:05:20.123 --> 01:05:20.483 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:05:21.113 --> 01:05:21.743 Suzi Prichard-Jones: To people. 01:05:22.113 --> 01:05:23.463 Something that gets them. 01:05:23.703 --> 01:05:31.233 I think what you do is yes, you poke away at the Jockey Club. 01:05:31.443 --> 01:05:34.713 I can do that and it's not costing me anything. 01:05:35.853 --> 01:05:41.493 'Cause I'm in the States, but I think what what you do is you start to educate the 01:05:41.493 --> 01:05:47.793 racing community and you find people who have connections to autistic children. 01:05:48.423 --> 01:05:48.453 Rupert Isaacson: Mm. 01:05:48.843 --> 01:05:50.973 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And it's, you know, the incidence of 01:05:51.033 --> 01:05:53.553 autism now is, it's pretty high. 01:05:54.033 --> 01:05:54.213 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:05:54.213 --> 01:05:54.483 It's, 01:05:54.538 --> 01:05:56.733 Suzi Prichard-Jones: and I was just reading something this morning about 01:05:56.733 --> 01:06:00.548 how they're saying I think it's Robert Kennedy saying this, that one in 01:06:00.548 --> 01:06:00.748 Rupert Isaacson: 12, 01:06:01.308 --> 01:06:04.488 Suzi Prichard-Jones: That Tylenol pregnant women who took Tylenol, 01:06:04.518 --> 01:06:06.138 that's what causes autism. 01:06:06.618 --> 01:06:13.088 So, it, anyway, there's there's a large incidence of, of autistic. 01:06:13.538 --> 01:06:13.748 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:06:13.748 --> 01:06:16.958 There is, whatever you think of what the causes are. 01:06:17.768 --> 01:06:24.548 It went from one in 10,000 to one under one in 20. 01:06:25.088 --> 01:06:29.438 In 30 years, something has happened. 01:06:29.618 --> 01:06:30.098 Yes. 01:06:31.013 --> 01:06:36.533 But where I come in is, whatever has happened, we can do something about it. 01:06:36.713 --> 01:06:38.063 That's neuroplasticity. 01:06:38.273 --> 01:06:40.493 We can rebuild brains. 01:06:40.493 --> 01:06:41.213 We know this. 01:06:41.663 --> 01:06:44.333 And you can do it with strokes, you can do it with traumatic brain injuries. 01:06:44.333 --> 01:06:48.743 You can do it, and we can certainly do it with regressive autism, because that, 01:06:48.773 --> 01:06:53.073 that's often what we're seeing is kids that were developing somewhat normally and 01:06:53.463 --> 01:06:55.743 at some point they took some sort of hit. 01:06:55.803 --> 01:07:01.203 Now it's too controversial to go into what that hit might have been. 01:07:01.323 --> 01:07:05.523 And also from my point of view, almost irrelevant because I'm 01:07:05.523 --> 01:07:07.563 dealing with the aftermath. 01:07:08.253 --> 01:07:13.083 And what we find is that Well, yeah, actually we can do a lot. 01:07:13.353 --> 01:07:16.203 So I'm, I'm with you and of course I'm playing devil's advocate 01:07:16.203 --> 01:07:19.233 against myself here because horse boy currently is in Berlin. 01:07:19.753 --> 01:07:24.803 Talking to the to the, the Bundestag, the, the, the German parliament you 01:07:24.803 --> 01:07:29.913 met the amazing Henrik and Giddy Bergoff and their son Julian in, 01:07:29.913 --> 01:07:32.163 in the wheelchair and their story. 01:07:32.433 --> 01:07:34.353 And spotter alert lads. 01:07:34.353 --> 01:07:37.113 I just yesterday did a, a podcast with Giddy Burko. 01:07:37.883 --> 01:07:40.193 You, you need to listen to that one.. 01:07:40.553 --> 01:07:43.313 And so they're, they're, they're, and David Doyle is with them. 01:07:43.433 --> 01:07:46.673 So David Dole has flown from Ireland and they are talking 01:07:46.673 --> 01:07:52.553 to the, the German Parliament about getting state funding for. 01:07:53.113 --> 01:07:56.263 Horse boy movement method and other, not just us, but all 01:07:56.263 --> 01:07:57.973 sorts of equine assisted things. 01:07:58.473 --> 01:08:01.323 And this builds on the back of what David DOL has already done 01:08:01.323 --> 01:08:05.073 in Ireland, getting those programs supported by government there. 01:08:05.253 --> 01:08:07.533 So I'm playing devil's advocate against myself. 01:08:07.533 --> 01:08:11.253 We have actually been doing this kind of thing, and of course, as you know, Joel 01:08:11.253 --> 01:08:16.973 Dunlap from Square Peg in California is, has been in Kentucky several times. 01:08:16.973 --> 01:08:18.713 She is working on that level. 01:08:19.193 --> 01:08:22.493 And I also know that you are getting something together up your 01:08:22.493 --> 01:08:25.693 sleeve at the Cura in Ireland. 01:08:25.723 --> 01:08:28.093 Somewhere in the next 12 months or so. 01:08:28.363 --> 01:08:31.573 We'll all be there and I'll get my ass there. 01:08:31.573 --> 01:08:32.203 Of course. 01:08:33.073 --> 01:08:37.423 So, you know, but I think the reason why I'm asking you these questions and 01:08:37.543 --> 01:08:41.353 having you answer them on this podcast is because I'm, I'm throwing this out now 01:08:41.353 --> 01:08:43.123 to you, the listeners and the viewers. 01:08:44.863 --> 01:08:45.853 You can't, we can't. 01:08:48.178 --> 01:08:51.718 Expect people to know what we do if we don't tell 'em. 01:08:52.948 --> 01:08:57.388 So for every single one of you that is out there doing that good work 01:08:57.388 --> 01:09:03.178 and you are all out there doing this good work, put the bugger on YouTube 01:09:04.378 --> 01:09:07.168 Suzi Prichard-Jones: just a, just a short little YouTube film. 01:09:07.228 --> 01:09:08.578 It can be 60 seconds. 01:09:08.938 --> 01:09:12.838 Anything Rupert that convey exactly what you're doing. 01:09:13.078 --> 01:09:14.578 Rupert Isaacson: And don't worry if it's crap, 01:09:14.788 --> 01:09:15.208 Suzi Prichard-Jones: doesn't matter 01:09:15.628 --> 01:09:17.068 Rupert Isaacson: because then you'll do another one. 01:09:17.073 --> 01:09:17.343 Yeah. 01:09:17.638 --> 01:09:20.458 And it will be better and you'll do another one and it will be better. 01:09:21.568 --> 01:09:26.308 And Eve also really good is your higher functioning artists. 01:09:26.608 --> 01:09:30.928 Get them to make little films about you and put it out there. 01:09:31.648 --> 01:09:34.978 But what we can't, I love the Irish term giving out. 01:09:35.878 --> 01:09:37.828 We can't give out, we can't complain. 01:09:39.118 --> 01:09:44.218 If we are not, so we, I, I asked those challenging questions to Susie 01:09:44.218 --> 01:09:48.628 just now saying, well, what can the thoroughbred industry do for us? 01:09:49.438 --> 01:09:53.458 And well, we know they can give us money and we need to go in there and tell them 01:09:53.488 --> 01:09:54.928 why they should and what they should do. 01:09:55.198 --> 01:10:00.028 But where she's right is they need also to hear from us. 01:10:00.958 --> 01:10:03.388 So what about open letters? 01:10:03.538 --> 01:10:10.578 What about you know, campaigns of I dunno why my brain is blanking on the word, when 01:10:10.578 --> 01:10:12.828 everyone signs their name to something. 01:10:12.908 --> 01:10:14.168 Yeah, petition. 01:10:14.168 --> 01:10:14.708 Thank you. 01:10:14.708 --> 01:10:15.248 Good lord. 01:10:16.018 --> 01:10:16.918 I need another cup of tea. 01:10:16.918 --> 01:10:19.378 Clearly, you know, all of these things make a difference. 01:10:19.468 --> 01:10:21.508 And also reaching out to your local racetrack. 01:10:21.508 --> 01:10:22.918 So we talked about David Doyle. 01:10:23.488 --> 01:10:28.288 He came out with a really good idea in Ireland, which is to go to individual 01:10:28.288 --> 01:10:30.358 race courses, which stand Id. 01:10:30.883 --> 01:10:34.273 In between race meetings and they have these amazing facilities 01:10:34.453 --> 01:10:36.763 and they're actually looking for reasons to be relevant. 01:10:37.093 --> 01:10:40.573 So they do, you know, stag parties and they do this and they do that. 01:10:41.743 --> 01:10:47.113 He went to them and said, what about equine assisted work happening in 01:10:47.113 --> 01:10:48.523 these places in between race meetings? 01:10:48.523 --> 01:10:51.283 And they went, that's a good idea. 01:10:51.763 --> 01:10:55.573 So back in the spring of this year, I found myself at Limerick Race Course 01:10:56.263 --> 01:11:01.063 with David Doe with a whole bunch of autistic riders in jockey silks on 01:11:01.213 --> 01:11:04.783 thoroughbreds where we began, which were donation thoroughbreds at the racetrack. 01:11:04.783 --> 01:11:07.963 And this was really interesting to me because they were then being taken back 01:11:08.143 --> 01:11:13.633 to their old world, these thoroughbreds now with very vulnerable riders on them 01:11:13.633 --> 01:11:19.253 and parading in the you know, the warmup area as if they were about to go and race. 01:11:19.493 --> 01:11:23.093 And we were on TV and everyone was being interviewed and we're talking about why 01:11:23.093 --> 01:11:27.293 this is important, this great that they absolutely stepped up and supported us. 01:11:27.998 --> 01:11:30.248 And I was thinking in the back of my mind, 01:11:32.318 --> 01:11:37.778 will there be any kind of return to previous pre therapy behavior? 01:11:38.418 --> 01:11:43.968 This will be an interesting ex Well, there wasn't the, the retraining was 01:11:43.968 --> 01:11:47.808 so effective and so thorough that even when these thoroughbreds were 01:11:47.808 --> 01:11:52.638 put back centrally, not just in the, in the location where they had been 01:11:52.638 --> 01:11:57.858 getting ready to race, but the rider is now wearing jockey silks and boots 01:11:57.858 --> 01:12:00.558 and all that, and don't think that horses don't notice that sort of thing. 01:12:00.558 --> 01:12:01.398 Of course they do. 01:12:01.908 --> 01:12:04.908 And yet not a foot put wrong. 01:12:05.208 --> 01:12:08.028 They could not have been better ambassadors for their own breed, 01:12:08.658 --> 01:12:09.558 you know, it was extraordinary. 01:12:10.048 --> 01:12:10.198 They have. 01:12:10.978 --> 01:12:11.068 Had 01:12:11.698 --> 01:12:12.988 Suzi Prichard-Jones: vulnerable children on that. 01:12:12.988 --> 01:12:13.498 Indeed. 01:12:13.828 --> 01:12:15.628 Rupert Isaacson: Very, very vulnerable passengers. 01:12:16.588 --> 01:12:16.858 Oh. 01:12:16.888 --> 01:12:23.663 So if you are an equine assisted outfit, is there anything stopping you from a, 01:12:23.848 --> 01:12:25.768 approaching your own local race course? 01:12:26.488 --> 01:12:29.308 Remember that these are individual businesses that are run. 01:12:29.458 --> 01:12:33.728 Is there anything from stopping you from approaching your local hunt and their 01:12:33.728 --> 01:12:37.358 point to point meeting, which they have every year, there's nothing stopping you. 01:12:37.628 --> 01:12:39.548 And don't worry if they say no. 01:12:40.148 --> 01:12:41.378 If they say no, go to the next one. 01:12:41.858 --> 01:12:44.618 I've generally found that there's a, a three no rule. 01:12:45.308 --> 01:12:47.468 People will say no three times and then they realize that 01:12:47.468 --> 01:12:48.458 you're just not gonna go away. 01:12:49.298 --> 01:12:50.468 And then they're like, all right, fine. 01:12:50.528 --> 01:12:52.298 You know, just to shut you up. 01:12:53.138 --> 01:12:55.688 And then they realize, oh, actually we come out of this looking quite good. 01:12:55.688 --> 01:12:56.108 You know what I mean? 01:12:56.288 --> 01:12:56.828 So 01:12:57.338 --> 01:12:59.563 Suzi Prichard-Jones: a little booth, have a little table there. 01:13:00.983 --> 01:13:03.653 With some flies, some toys or whatever. 01:13:03.653 --> 01:13:08.393 Something to just, something to bring them in and just tell them what you're doing. 01:13:08.393 --> 01:13:12.533 Because I promise you, people in the racing industry do not know what's 01:13:12.533 --> 01:13:14.123 happening in the equine assisted world. 01:13:14.423 --> 01:13:20.843 It's a relatively new area, and everybody today has got their 01:13:20.843 --> 01:13:22.463 head down in the road mm-hmm. 01:13:22.463 --> 01:13:22.673 Field. 01:13:22.763 --> 01:13:26.693 And they're not looking over the hedge unless you get an idiot like me who's 01:13:26.693 --> 01:13:28.073 just like, what's happening over there? 01:13:29.783 --> 01:13:30.563 Rupert Isaacson: Well, curiosity. 01:13:30.563 --> 01:13:31.553 Thank God for it. 01:13:32.783 --> 01:13:33.323 Okay. 01:13:33.593 --> 01:13:34.583 I'm optimistic. 01:13:34.643 --> 01:13:37.163 I I think you're gonna do it, Susie. 01:13:37.223 --> 01:13:41.333 I think that you are going to be the catalyst that makes that difference. 01:13:41.813 --> 01:13:45.203 I, I met you, I hung out with you in kil Coon, and I thought, 01:13:45.263 --> 01:13:46.673 oh, this woman is a force. 01:13:47.363 --> 01:13:49.433 You didn't have to show up to our tribe day, 01:13:50.003 --> 01:13:50.898 Suzi Prichard-Jones: but you wouldn't keep me away. 01:13:53.588 --> 01:13:55.418 Rupert Isaacson: But you had other things in your life to do. 01:13:55.748 --> 01:13:56.918 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I show up everywhere. 01:13:57.168 --> 01:14:00.178 Rupert Isaacson: if you're a horse nerd, and if you're on this podcast, 01:14:00.578 --> 01:14:05.478 I'm guessing you are, then you've probably also always wondered a little 01:14:05.478 --> 01:14:07.728 bit about the old master system. 01:14:08.193 --> 01:14:09.503 of dressage training. 01:14:09.543 --> 01:14:18.113 If you go and check out our Helios Harmony program, we outline there step by step 01:14:18.183 --> 01:14:24.463 exactly how to train your horse from the ground to become the dressage horse 01:14:24.473 --> 01:14:30.993 of your dreams in a way that absolutely serves the physical, mental and emotional 01:14:31.043 --> 01:14:33.813 well being of the horse and the rider. 01:14:33.873 --> 01:14:34.613 Intrigued? 01:14:34.813 --> 01:14:35.673 Like to know more? 01:14:36.543 --> 01:14:39.373 Go to our website, Helios Harmony. 01:14:41.073 --> 01:14:42.763 Check out the free introduction course. 01:14:43.323 --> 01:14:43.843 Take it from there. 01:14:44.347 --> 01:14:48.217 You know, and you live between different spots and all of this, and you made time. 01:14:48.217 --> 01:14:50.257 You took time, and you didn't just show up alone. 01:14:50.257 --> 01:14:54.847 You, you brought a couple of interested parties and you showcased us. 01:14:54.997 --> 01:14:55.057 Yeah. 01:14:55.537 --> 01:14:56.677 You didn't need to do that. 01:14:56.947 --> 01:15:04.537 So I'm both grateful and very optimistic because I know talent when I see it, and 01:15:04.537 --> 01:15:06.067 you're clearly gonna get the job done. 01:15:06.617 --> 01:15:08.477 And rising tide lifts all boats. 01:15:08.477 --> 01:15:11.837 So yes, we'll spoil will be in there doing the things that you do, but we 01:15:11.837 --> 01:15:16.277 will be turning around to lots of other programs and saying, come along with us. 01:15:16.817 --> 01:15:19.067 Let's not sit in our own silos. 01:15:19.067 --> 01:15:23.297 And certainly let's not, horse boy won't be trying to like, hold the money 01:15:23.297 --> 01:15:25.307 from the racing industry to itself. 01:15:25.367 --> 01:15:26.207 Quite the opposite. 01:15:26.257 --> 01:15:32.047 What I would like to do is work on setting up funds that are just purely merit-based 01:15:33.097 --> 01:15:36.067 across the equine assisted field because. 01:15:36.907 --> 01:15:41.137 What we do as you know, is, is fairly specific in terms of, you know, 01:15:41.137 --> 01:15:44.677 neuroplasticity, but there's all kinds of other programs out there as well. 01:15:44.677 --> 01:15:47.197 You mentioned the prison ones and Horseback uk. 01:15:47.197 --> 01:15:49.597 What they do, you know, there, there's a bunch out there. 01:15:50.167 --> 01:15:56.977 I, I would like to be a catalyst in making sure that everybody gets served. 01:15:58.987 --> 01:16:04.357 So I do think when we have you on again next year to give the report 01:16:04.357 --> 01:16:07.237 on what the progress has been with the Jockey Club, I think you're 01:16:07.237 --> 01:16:08.767 going to be reporting progress. 01:16:09.367 --> 01:16:11.347 There's something else I want to ask you about there. 01:16:11.677 --> 01:16:16.537 Do you remember a bit earlier in this conversation, I said you got 01:16:16.537 --> 01:16:20.347 into this as much because you wanted to protect the thoroughbred horse 01:16:21.097 --> 01:16:24.637 as to help people like my son. 01:16:24.947 --> 01:16:28.157 And I think that that's perfectly valid and honest and good. 01:16:29.147 --> 01:16:31.547 Tell me why the thoroughbred itself. 01:16:32.072 --> 01:16:35.942 In terms of its bloodlines is a little bit vulnerable right now. 01:16:35.942 --> 01:16:37.292 This was really interesting to me. 01:16:37.292 --> 01:16:39.092 I didn't know this until you told it to me. 01:16:39.932 --> 01:16:41.912 We tend to think of thoroughbreds as like this thing. 01:16:41.912 --> 01:16:42.812 It's been there forever. 01:16:42.812 --> 01:16:43.532 It'll always be there. 01:16:44.492 --> 01:16:46.322 Not so much perhaps it seems. 01:16:46.652 --> 01:16:48.272 Tell me what it is and why you care. 01:16:49.802 --> 01:16:51.242 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Could, can I divert you? 01:16:51.422 --> 01:16:53.432 Very, very, it won't be for long. 01:16:53.912 --> 01:16:57.962 With horse boy, your three modalities, the Hakeem in hand 01:16:57.962 --> 01:17:01.292 dressage work that you do Yeah. 01:17:01.292 --> 01:17:06.002 Passes into collection and balance for horse boy. 01:17:06.632 --> 01:17:07.022 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:17:07.412 --> 01:17:10.622 Suzi Prichard-Jones: They can create those big rocking motions that will rock 01:17:10.622 --> 01:17:12.662 the children's hips and create oxytocin. 01:17:13.292 --> 01:17:13.592 Yeah. 01:17:15.362 --> 01:17:19.292 I saw Terry Brosnan demonstrate 01:17:19.892 --> 01:17:21.677 Rupert Isaacson: she runs the horse by place at Hillco. 01:17:21.677 --> 01:17:21.687 Yeah. 01:17:21.752 --> 01:17:22.082 Yeah. 01:17:23.342 --> 01:17:25.022 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And a light bulb went off. 01:17:25.352 --> 01:17:28.952 'Cause she said we get them to cross over the midline. 01:17:29.222 --> 01:17:29.492 Yeah. 01:17:29.942 --> 01:17:35.072 What is coming over the midline horses, thoroughbred horses 01:17:35.282 --> 01:17:37.352 certainly don't do that ever. 01:17:38.462 --> 01:17:43.472 And it suddenly occurred to me, my God, every yearling that has been 01:17:43.472 --> 01:17:47.582 started needs to do this work. 01:17:47.942 --> 01:17:48.272 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 01:17:49.322 --> 01:17:52.262 Suzi Prichard-Jones: How to cross over the midline Because I can't tell 01:17:52.262 --> 01:17:55.532 you how many two year olds and older horses I've ridden that will try to 01:17:55.532 --> 01:17:57.962 buck and you go, God, don't do that. 01:17:57.962 --> 01:17:58.502 You idiot. 01:17:58.502 --> 01:18:01.652 You're going to fall down because they dunno where their feet are, 01:18:01.862 --> 01:18:05.432 their front feet are, and they end up going a over t kettle. 01:18:05.942 --> 01:18:09.662 Not only does it give them the body awareness and where their 01:18:09.662 --> 01:18:13.382 feet are, are, it creates balance. 01:18:14.432 --> 01:18:14.912 It puts, it 01:18:14.912 --> 01:18:16.652 Rupert Isaacson: creates neuroplasticity in the horse 01:18:16.772 --> 01:18:19.862 Suzi Prichard-Jones: and posture and it creates neuroplasticity in the 01:18:19.862 --> 01:18:21.512 horse because it's left, right brain. 01:18:21.722 --> 01:18:22.082 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:18:22.412 --> 01:18:23.072 They can think. 01:18:23.222 --> 01:18:23.492 Yeah. 01:18:23.822 --> 01:18:25.562 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And it brings 'em into collection. 01:18:25.562 --> 01:18:29.642 But even more than that, it gives 'em confidence. 01:18:30.842 --> 01:18:35.642 So to me, if you were to do this with a yearling before 01:18:35.642 --> 01:18:37.112 you're, as you're starting him, 01:18:37.442 --> 01:18:37.652 Rupert Isaacson: yeah. 01:18:37.652 --> 01:18:37.742 You are 01:18:38.132 --> 01:18:43.082 Suzi Prichard-Jones: getting a much more balanced, collected horse 01:18:43.082 --> 01:18:47.372 that knows where his body, where his feet are, where his body is. 01:18:47.892 --> 01:18:49.842 You're gonna end up with a sand horse, 01:18:50.862 --> 01:18:51.102 Rupert Isaacson: a hundred 01:18:51.717 --> 01:18:52.207 Suzi Prichard-Jones: hundred, 01:18:52.872 --> 01:18:54.852 Rupert Isaacson: and you can actually rehab the injuries this way 01:18:54.852 --> 01:18:56.922 too, because it's like a yoga and 01:18:57.552 --> 01:18:58.927 Suzi Prichard-Jones: it then sets them up for. 01:18:59.667 --> 01:19:01.647 Further career options. 01:19:01.707 --> 01:19:02.427 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 01:19:02.517 --> 01:19:02.967 Absolutely. 01:19:03.147 --> 01:19:06.987 Because you put the building blocks in for the jumping and the dressage 01:19:07.227 --> 01:19:07.557 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Yeah. 01:19:07.707 --> 01:19:07.827 That 01:19:07.827 --> 01:19:10.917 Rupert Isaacson: they might need later, which is just about balancing yourself. 01:19:11.367 --> 01:19:12.567 You've set that up for them. 01:19:12.957 --> 01:19:13.137 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Yeah. 01:19:13.142 --> 01:19:13.322 You do. 01:19:13.322 --> 01:19:17.817 I think to Keen is the bridge into the thoroughbred world. 01:19:17.817 --> 01:19:17.877 Yeah. 01:19:18.177 --> 01:19:23.577 And Friday, Terry Brosnan is very kindly going to come down to Jesse 01:19:23.577 --> 01:19:31.262 Harrington's in common stand, and she's going to teach my three-year-old Okay. 01:19:32.217 --> 01:19:33.447 In the indoor school. 01:19:33.687 --> 01:19:33.717 Okay. 01:19:34.767 --> 01:19:40.527 And I'm hoping that I, we can show it to Jesse and she'll see the results of that. 01:19:40.527 --> 01:19:40.587 Now, 01:19:40.947 --> 01:19:41.907 Rupert Isaacson: who is Jesse Harrington? 01:19:42.147 --> 01:19:45.687 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Jesse Harrington is Alan's national treasure. 01:19:45.717 --> 01:19:45.747 Okay. 01:19:46.512 --> 01:19:46.572 Rupert Isaacson: She 01:19:46.992 --> 01:19:48.732 Suzi Prichard-Jones: is a racehorse trainer. 01:19:48.732 --> 01:19:51.492 She was a very successful steeplechase trainer. 01:19:51.492 --> 01:19:54.312 She was on the Olympic three day team. 01:19:54.722 --> 01:19:57.932 And she's a very successful flat horse trainer, and she's one of 01:19:57.932 --> 01:20:03.212 the larger trainers in Ireland and just an exceptional human being. 01:20:04.142 --> 01:20:07.712 And I'm lucky enough to have my horse and some other horses down. 01:20:08.462 --> 01:20:08.492 Okay. 01:20:10.872 --> 01:20:12.272 Said yes. 01:20:12.272 --> 01:20:13.262 Yes, that'll be fine. 01:20:14.222 --> 01:20:14.822 Rupert Isaacson: Oh, wonderful. 01:20:15.182 --> 01:20:17.942 Suzi Prichard-Jones: So what I'd like to see is I would like 01:20:17.942 --> 01:20:22.232 to see the thoroughbred world endorsing the keen method. 01:20:22.322 --> 01:20:22.382 Yeah, 01:20:23.162 --> 01:20:24.092 Rupert Isaacson: I, I agree with you. 01:20:24.092 --> 01:20:26.642 That's where the, that's where the crossover is. 01:20:27.072 --> 01:20:29.352 Because it serves the horse as much as it serves. 01:20:30.102 --> 01:20:30.672 Human. 01:20:31.522 --> 01:20:35.392 And just for those listeners who are not familiar, 'cause not everyone 01:20:35.422 --> 01:20:42.212 who listens to this knows what our programs are takin, T-A-K-H-I-N is the 01:20:42.392 --> 01:20:44.372 in-hand work lunging and long reigning. 01:20:44.372 --> 01:20:48.302 So it's not ridden as no ridden work where you teach the horse all the 01:20:48.302 --> 01:20:52.322 dressy stuff and the strengthening and the suckling that they would 01:20:52.322 --> 01:20:54.722 need to know to do the dressage. 01:20:56.252 --> 01:21:02.762 You use this as its own therapy to prepare, maintain and rehab horses. 01:21:02.942 --> 01:21:08.252 But of course we then get autistic people, veterans service users of 01:21:08.252 --> 01:21:13.772 any kind to be the trainers that do the work so that it, it's a sort of 01:21:13.772 --> 01:21:16.232 circular, holistic, win win, win thing. 01:21:16.532 --> 01:21:19.772 And then also for the people who run the, the program. 01:21:20.432 --> 01:21:23.492 Any of you who are running programs, you know how stressed you are 01:21:23.492 --> 01:21:27.092 because you don't have enough time to condition and maintain your horses 01:21:27.092 --> 01:21:29.312 because you've just got so many clients coming through the door. 01:21:29.552 --> 01:21:35.852 Well, what TA Keen does is it makes those conditioning sessions the 01:21:35.852 --> 01:21:37.652 session that you do with your client. 01:21:37.862 --> 01:21:43.202 So instead of trying to separate out that time and be in stress and time conflict, 01:21:43.502 --> 01:21:46.502 you have no time conflict anymore. 01:21:46.712 --> 01:21:48.422 So, yes, I, I, I agree. 01:21:48.522 --> 01:21:53.802 And so much of that work, if you do it very early, 'cause the horse isn't 01:21:53.802 --> 01:21:57.822 bearing any weight because you can introduce all the lateral work, you 01:21:57.822 --> 01:22:02.082 can introduce the pf, you can introduce all these things without, in any 01:22:02.082 --> 01:22:05.442 way negatively affecting the horse because there is no weight being born. 01:22:05.682 --> 01:22:09.612 So I'm very, very pleased to hear that that's about to happen and 01:22:09.612 --> 01:22:13.662 a bit nervous and 'cause now the pressure's on to do a good job. 01:22:14.442 --> 01:22:17.982 Suzi Prichard-Jones: But going to set them up to be sound or horses in the long run. 01:22:18.282 --> 01:22:18.732 Rupert Isaacson: Yes. 01:22:18.822 --> 01:22:19.092 Yeah. 01:22:19.092 --> 01:22:19.662 Absolutely. 01:22:19.662 --> 01:22:22.062 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Knows, knows where his body is, his 01:22:22.062 --> 01:22:24.342 feet are and they're balanced. 01:22:25.092 --> 01:22:26.142 That's half the battle. 01:22:26.502 --> 01:22:27.012 Rupert Isaacson: It is. 01:22:27.012 --> 01:22:28.542 And this brings me to your book. 01:22:28.602 --> 01:22:28.992 Okay. 01:22:28.992 --> 01:22:33.592 So, I asked you, so you, you diverted me from my question about why is the third 01:22:33.592 --> 01:22:35.542 Red Horse itself vulnerable at the moment? 01:22:36.112 --> 01:22:37.672 So you wrote a book called The Biley Turk. 01:22:37.672 --> 01:22:38.032 Right. 01:22:38.482 --> 01:22:44.512 And one of the reasons why I find the Biley Turk an interesting historical place 01:22:44.512 --> 01:22:50.932 to put one's focus as a horse person and a therapy person is because that story 01:22:51.112 --> 01:22:55.522 of, so the Barley Turk being one of the foundation stallions of the Thoroughbreds 01:22:55.882 --> 01:23:02.602 what often isn't known is that this was a warhorse, so it was acquired somehow 01:23:03.262 --> 01:23:05.152 at the siege of Vienna, I think, was it? 01:23:05.482 --> 01:23:05.812 Or. 01:23:06.682 --> 01:23:07.312 A Buddha. 01:23:07.612 --> 01:23:07.942 Yeah. 01:23:08.252 --> 01:23:13.052 So when the, when the Ottomans were trying to take over Europe and remember they got 01:23:13.052 --> 01:23:18.512 as far as Vienna and all of the European powers had to suddenly stop punching 01:23:18.512 --> 01:23:20.312 each other up and go, hold on a second. 01:23:21.062 --> 01:23:22.862 Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. 01:23:22.982 --> 01:23:27.092 If we don't like get our shit together for at least five years, these guys 01:23:27.092 --> 01:23:29.462 are just gonna take it all from us and it will all be irrelevant. 01:23:29.642 --> 01:23:31.952 So maybe, maybe we should cooperate here. 01:23:32.102 --> 01:23:32.882 So they did. 01:23:32.882 --> 01:23:37.592 And at the end of the 17th century, they, you know, managed to secure 01:23:37.742 --> 01:23:41.822 Europe from the Ottoman threat, but it was not done without great effort. 01:23:42.212 --> 01:23:47.802 And in these coalitions of military that came together to do this, many of 01:23:47.802 --> 01:23:52.702 those European co countries when they were reorganizing their military at 01:23:52.702 --> 01:24:01.582 that time had Irish contingents because the Anglo-Irish nobility and the Irish. 01:24:02.002 --> 01:24:05.242 Poor peasants often sold themselves as mercenaries. 01:24:05.612 --> 01:24:08.552 It was one of the ways that they made a living and they all had a 01:24:08.642 --> 01:24:12.362 sort of fighting spirit, and they were great horsemen and so on. 01:24:12.362 --> 01:24:15.632 So they went and made a few Bob fighting for the Germans or fighting 01:24:15.632 --> 01:24:19.832 for the Austrians or this or that or the other as, as well as obviously 01:24:19.862 --> 01:24:20.882 for the Brits from time to time. 01:24:21.392 --> 01:24:25.322 And so there's this chap, he biley, he shows up at this siege and 01:24:25.322 --> 01:24:26.732 he somehow acquires this horse. 01:24:26.732 --> 01:24:29.582 And there's all these different stories right about did he buy it, 01:24:29.582 --> 01:24:31.112 did he nick it, did he exchange? 01:24:31.112 --> 01:24:32.342 It was, you know, was it gifted? 01:24:33.602 --> 01:24:36.362 Whatever happens, he brings this thing home. 01:24:36.692 --> 01:24:44.282 And we talked about racing, having started with the step cultures. 01:24:45.692 --> 01:24:50.612 The Turman horse is of course one of the purest throwbacks 01:24:50.822 --> 01:24:53.402 to that early step culture. 01:24:53.702 --> 01:24:56.432 And it's both a dressage horse and a racing horse. 01:24:57.032 --> 01:25:00.062 And it is still to this day, Turk and horses. 01:25:00.572 --> 01:25:02.732 Rock, they're rad, they're fantastic. 01:25:02.912 --> 01:25:05.942 I know people who've got them and they're brilliant because they have all the 01:25:05.942 --> 01:25:09.332 fire, but they have all the nos as well. 01:25:09.542 --> 01:25:12.062 And you can use them in multiple purposes. 01:25:12.242 --> 01:25:13.892 They just don't grow terribly big. 01:25:14.102 --> 01:25:18.152 So you're probably not gonna jump a meter 60 on them if you're a big-ish human. 01:25:18.392 --> 01:25:22.412 But nonetheless, they are a really versatile, so of course the 01:25:22.412 --> 01:25:26.102 ancestor of the modern, no, this bloke brings it home to Ireland. 01:25:26.642 --> 01:25:27.452 And guess what? 01:25:27.452 --> 01:25:28.802 It shows up at another battle. 01:25:29.322 --> 01:25:32.742 The battle that basically decides that England is gonna be England. 01:25:33.172 --> 01:25:36.022 The Battle of the Boyne, which weirdly and confusingly is fought 01:25:36.022 --> 01:25:38.632 in Ireland because it ends up being a Protestant Catholic thing. 01:25:38.632 --> 01:25:43.942 And I could go into why that happened in one of my more boring old dead dudes. 01:25:44.192 --> 01:25:45.452 His history of dress thing. 01:25:45.452 --> 01:25:48.752 I think I will, but suffice to say, but relatively 01:25:49.052 --> 01:25:52.022 Suzi Prichard-Jones: little bloodshed in England, but a lot in, in Ireland. 01:25:52.177 --> 01:25:52.597 Indeed, 01:25:52.712 --> 01:25:52.952 Rupert Isaacson: indeed. 01:25:52.952 --> 01:25:54.062 We like to do our proxy war. 01:25:54.062 --> 01:25:54.302 Yeah. 01:25:54.582 --> 01:25:56.622 But also to be fair, you know, anytime that. 01:25:56.972 --> 01:26:00.332 France or someone else wanted to mess with England, you'd do it through 01:26:00.332 --> 01:26:04.052 the back door of Scotland or Ireland, bite him in the butt, you know, and 01:26:04.052 --> 01:26:06.272 then that would turn our attention over there, and then you could do 01:26:06.272 --> 01:26:07.832 naughty things to us somewhere else. 01:26:08.242 --> 01:26:11.932 And this of course is one of those big, but this was a decisive battle in 01:26:11.932 --> 01:26:16.142 terms of European of British history because it basically decided would we 01:26:16.142 --> 01:26:17.882 be Protestant or would we be Catholic? 01:26:18.002 --> 01:26:22.622 And the Protestants win, and Bali is on the winning side, I believe. 01:26:23.072 --> 01:26:26.882 And then so this horse before it becomes a race horse. 01:26:26.882 --> 01:26:30.002 So we think of, we think of thoroughbreds, as you said, as they don't cross 01:26:30.002 --> 01:26:31.322 the midline, they just go zoom. 01:26:31.952 --> 01:26:35.852 But at least one of their ancestors was crossing the midline a lot. 01:26:35.852 --> 01:26:41.012 Because if you fight hand to hand on a horse, you use the tacking system. 01:26:41.372 --> 01:26:46.652 The ting system that we are talking about was originally created for three things. 01:26:47.232 --> 01:26:51.932 I'm talking thousands of years ago, not by me Ru but Isaacson, it was to, to put your 01:26:51.932 --> 01:26:54.122 horse able to move in three dimensions. 01:26:54.122 --> 01:26:55.052 Why do you want to do that? 01:26:55.352 --> 01:26:59.702 Because you wanna catch cows because you're a step herder and you live off 01:26:59.702 --> 01:27:02.912 cows and goats and sheep, and they move in three dimensions and try and 01:27:02.912 --> 01:27:04.772 run away from you and stop and spin. 01:27:04.772 --> 01:27:08.582 And so you've gotta have a horse that can do the same thing, which means you've 01:27:08.582 --> 01:27:12.482 gotta train them to go to the side and cross the midline and do pirouettes. 01:27:12.692 --> 01:27:13.982 Then of course you might go into battle. 01:27:14.012 --> 01:27:17.432 'cause I want to Nick Susie's cows and I've nicked her cows. 01:27:17.432 --> 01:27:18.152 I'm riding over there. 01:27:18.152 --> 01:27:19.922 Now she's noticed that I've nicked her cows. 01:27:20.102 --> 01:27:21.182 She wants to nick 'em back. 01:27:21.362 --> 01:27:22.532 So we have a running fight. 01:27:23.207 --> 01:27:25.667 If she's a better horseman than me, she will win the fight. 01:27:26.267 --> 01:27:31.487 So her horses trained for battle in these stop start spin laterally stuff, 01:27:31.487 --> 01:27:33.827 including PFS and other things like that. 01:27:34.007 --> 01:27:38.327 And then of course we have a sort of display fun way of doing it where we 01:27:38.327 --> 01:27:42.377 can get together in festivals and PR about, on our horses looking pretty 01:27:42.587 --> 01:27:48.497 to try and impress each other and sell the semen of our, of our horses. 01:27:49.067 --> 01:27:50.387 And this has been going on for thousands years. 01:27:50.387 --> 01:27:54.287 But what's interesting to me is that this horse, it's the foundation horse of the 01:27:54.287 --> 01:28:00.567 zoom, zoom industry was actually three dimensional spinny, spinny, spinny horse 01:28:00.897 --> 01:28:01.887 Suzi Prichard-Jones: that we've come full circle. 01:28:01.887 --> 01:28:02.307 Massage horse. 01:28:02.427 --> 01:28:02.817 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:28:04.317 --> 01:28:05.037 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Which is lovely. 01:28:05.847 --> 01:28:09.387 And the interesting thing, Rupert, is that the three foundation stars of thorough, 01:28:10.317 --> 01:28:17.017 it is rumored that the Barley Turk took part in a race at down Royal, which. 01:28:17.737 --> 01:28:21.307 It's not the down royal race course we have today, but it's actually on the side 01:28:21.307 --> 01:28:23.987 of Dan Patrick with two other horses. 01:28:24.167 --> 01:28:26.657 But that is rumored. 01:28:27.087 --> 01:28:29.277 The Gido and the Arabian was never ridden. 01:28:30.367 --> 01:28:30.997 Rupert Isaacson: Never ridden, 01:28:32.092 --> 01:28:36.562 Suzi Prichard-Jones: and the Dali Arabian came basically as a show horse. 01:28:36.562 --> 01:28:37.942 He wasn't raised either. 01:28:37.942 --> 01:28:39.202 So, so 01:28:39.202 --> 01:28:41.692 Rupert Isaacson: do people just look at the qualities of these 01:28:41.692 --> 01:28:45.592 horses unridden and say, you know what, we are breeding to them. 01:28:45.592 --> 01:28:47.212 What, how did that arise? 01:28:47.622 --> 01:28:51.522 Suzi Prichard-Jones: It happened because there were a number of what they 01:28:51.522 --> 01:28:59.592 called oriental horses in England in the 16th century, 16th, 17th century. 01:28:59.862 --> 01:29:05.142 And there were in excess of, I've counted 190 Oriental stallions, 01:29:05.952 --> 01:29:09.582 and some of them are quite prevalent in the early step book. 01:29:10.512 --> 01:29:10.822 So the. 01:29:11.637 --> 01:29:15.687 Fascinating thing is why is it only three stallions? 01:29:16.107 --> 01:29:16.197 Mm-hmm. 01:29:17.367 --> 01:29:23.607 From at least 190, and it comes down to the three of their descendants who 01:29:23.607 --> 01:29:28.327 were a cocktail of the three stallions, but match and her and ellipse, and that 01:29:28.682 --> 01:29:35.157 they either aside from the Dali line and the Ga dolphin line or the barley. 01:29:35.157 --> 01:29:36.567 So it's a combination. 01:29:36.897 --> 01:29:42.117 So it's not just the Y chromosome, it's probably a combination of the mitochondria 01:29:42.627 --> 01:29:48.117 and the, the y chromosome that's given us our, our foundation of the thorough breed. 01:29:48.117 --> 01:29:50.492 So it's actually inherent in eclipse. 01:29:51.722 --> 01:29:52.012 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:29:52.137 --> 01:29:57.837 Now you told me that, and I didn't know this, that the Bly line 01:29:57.867 --> 01:30:01.917 and the good dolphin line are disappearing from the thoroughbred 01:30:02.367 --> 01:30:02.937 Suzi Prichard-Jones: that's gone. 01:30:03.027 --> 01:30:04.647 Rupert Isaacson: Why and why should we care? 01:30:05.487 --> 01:30:08.547 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Well I wrote the book and then I thought I better 01:30:08.547 --> 01:30:09.927 put my money where my mouth was. 01:30:09.927 --> 01:30:13.857 So I thought, well, you better go and sort of read some of these 01:30:13.887 --> 01:30:18.117 voices and then maybe somebody will join you on your little quest. 01:30:18.397 --> 01:30:19.957 That hasn't happened yet. 01:30:20.587 --> 01:30:25.497 But I was at the sales new market a couple of years ago and one of Michael 01:30:25.497 --> 01:30:32.557 Richard Kent, who had affiliate of mine, he goes, see why that line hasn't lasted? 01:30:33.007 --> 01:30:39.397 He said, because you need time and, and patience and, and staff. 01:30:40.057 --> 01:30:43.767 And he said, Lippi here was trying to put your Philly on the hot walker, 01:30:43.767 --> 01:30:45.057 and she wasn't having any of it. 01:30:45.107 --> 01:30:47.087 And I went, what did I tell you? 01:30:47.477 --> 01:30:50.297 These horses, you have to ask them. 01:30:50.717 --> 01:30:52.607 You cannot tell them what to do. 01:30:53.237 --> 01:30:53.867 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely 01:30:54.167 --> 01:30:55.277 Suzi Prichard-Jones: tell them what to do. 01:30:55.757 --> 01:30:56.807 It's game over. 01:30:56.837 --> 01:30:58.277 It ain't, it's not happening. 01:30:58.277 --> 01:31:03.627 And they don't forget the very, the two lines are very intelligent, 01:31:03.897 --> 01:31:04.257 Rupert Isaacson: interesting. 01:31:04.917 --> 01:31:07.407 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Barley line is extremely intelligent. 01:31:07.707 --> 01:31:09.507 Rupert Isaacson: So you think people have stopped breeding them 01:31:09.507 --> 01:31:10.832 just because they require more, 01:31:11.757 --> 01:31:15.747 Suzi Prichard-Jones: they require more horsemanship and more, I see patients 01:31:15.747 --> 01:31:17.937 and they, they tend to be quite hot. 01:31:17.937 --> 01:31:18.867 They're on their toes. 01:31:18.867 --> 01:31:20.157 They're not bad horses at all. 01:31:20.157 --> 01:31:21.357 They're all lovely people, but 01:31:21.357 --> 01:31:21.897 Rupert Isaacson: they're sharp. 01:31:22.227 --> 01:31:23.067 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Don't cross them. 01:31:23.247 --> 01:31:26.877 Don't come in telling them what to do or they, okay. 01:31:26.877 --> 01:31:27.207 Different. 01:31:27.537 --> 01:31:34.377 They go dolphin, Arabians tend to be quite bullheaded and they're 01:31:34.407 --> 01:31:35.907 tough and they're determined. 01:31:36.507 --> 01:31:38.727 And those are two qualities. 01:31:39.057 --> 01:31:43.497 The intelligence and, and that spirit, that high metal that 01:31:43.497 --> 01:31:45.487 the barley line has and the. 01:31:46.182 --> 01:31:49.542 Toughness and the determination that the good LP line have. 01:31:49.902 --> 01:31:51.972 Those are essential qualities for race horses. 01:31:54.012 --> 01:31:57.192 Rupert Isaacson: So now you say, okay, so I can understand people 01:31:57.192 --> 01:31:58.452 are now trying to cut corners. 01:31:58.452 --> 01:32:01.902 They don't want a horse that you have to work so hard for, so they're trying 01:32:01.902 --> 01:32:04.572 to breed to an easier bloodline. 01:32:05.592 --> 01:32:06.732 Speak to me as a total rookie. 01:32:06.732 --> 01:32:07.692 Why does that even matter? 01:32:07.692 --> 01:32:09.582 Like, why, why don't you say, okay, well fine, breathe that 01:32:09.582 --> 01:32:11.382 line out, breed to another line. 01:32:12.052 --> 01:32:13.702 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Well that's, that's what we're doing. 01:32:13.772 --> 01:32:20.487 We've bred to exclusively to the Dali Arabian line and temperaments a lot 01:32:20.487 --> 01:32:24.807 of times are much, much easier than a Barley Turk temperament by far. 01:32:25.317 --> 01:32:28.287 The barleys, you have to treat little bit like Phillies in 01:32:28.287 --> 01:32:29.282 that you've gotta be, so why 01:32:29.282 --> 01:32:30.762 Rupert Isaacson: do we need then the barley line? 01:32:30.782 --> 01:32:32.337 Why do we need the good offen line? 01:32:32.472 --> 01:32:34.587 Suzi Prichard-Jones: They have that high metal, they have that 01:32:34.587 --> 01:32:36.717 far, they have that courage. 01:32:36.717 --> 01:32:38.007 They're all very brave. 01:32:38.247 --> 01:32:38.787 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 01:32:39.177 --> 01:32:39.807 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Intelligent. 01:32:40.047 --> 01:32:44.847 So you need in a racehorse, you need that far, has the determination 01:32:44.847 --> 01:32:47.847 and the toughness you need that when the chips are down. 01:32:49.527 --> 01:32:52.017 Rupert Isaacson: There must also be an inbreeding issue as well. 01:32:52.017 --> 01:32:55.977 I mean, if you, if you start narrowing down to just one line of 01:32:55.977 --> 01:33:01.737 three, surely there's going to be issues that come up cognitively and 01:33:01.797 --> 01:33:05.217 physically eventually, because there just isn't enough outside blood. 01:33:05.217 --> 01:33:05.607 Right. 01:33:06.147 --> 01:33:07.137 Suzi Prichard-Jones: It hasn't happened yet. 01:33:07.467 --> 01:33:07.887 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:33:08.577 --> 01:33:10.137 Suzi Prichard-Jones: But will happen in, 01:33:10.227 --> 01:33:11.067 Rupert Isaacson: you think it will happen 01:33:11.697 --> 01:33:13.197 Suzi Prichard-Jones: in about 10 years time. 01:33:13.197 --> 01:33:16.737 Rupert, every single thorough red world trace back to a 01:33:16.737 --> 01:33:19.587 course of 1913 called Polaris. 01:33:20.012 --> 01:33:20.302 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:33:21.897 --> 01:33:24.357 Suzi Prichard-Jones: That's how we've, we've narrowed down 01:33:25.192 --> 01:33:26.817 Rupert Isaacson: and, and then we can end up with what, three? 01:33:26.822 --> 01:33:28.347 Three horses with three heads. 01:33:29.997 --> 01:33:30.237 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Oh. 01:33:30.237 --> 01:33:33.132 Probably just horses that are soft and don't have, yeah. 01:33:33.957 --> 01:33:36.327 That will to win, you know, it'll be a different breed. 01:33:36.327 --> 01:33:36.687 I think 01:33:37.227 --> 01:33:39.987 Rupert Isaacson: I should imagine too, physically they, they may not be as tough. 01:33:40.017 --> 01:33:40.077 Yeah. 01:33:40.557 --> 01:33:43.077 So that, would we see more injuries on the racetrack? 01:33:43.077 --> 01:33:44.997 Would we see more tendons popping? 01:33:44.997 --> 01:33:46.287 Would we see more bones breaking? 01:33:48.327 --> 01:33:50.607 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Maybe not, you know, I dunno, 01:33:51.627 --> 01:33:54.057 Rupert Isaacson: in breeding in any animal, it's never seems 01:33:54.057 --> 01:33:55.077 to be a great idea, right? 01:33:55.082 --> 01:33:55.472 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Mm-hmm. 01:33:57.327 --> 01:33:57.387 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:33:57.387 --> 01:33:58.617 Seems to be something to avoid. 01:34:00.627 --> 01:34:01.017 Suzi Prichard-Jones: So, you know, 01:34:01.437 --> 01:34:03.867 Rupert Isaacson: we know with the dog it's not a good idea, right? 01:34:04.062 --> 01:34:05.637 Suzi Prichard-Jones: We've, we've seen it in dogs, we've 01:34:05.637 --> 01:34:06.867 seen it in the English bulldog. 01:34:06.867 --> 01:34:08.397 We've seen it in the French Bulldog. 01:34:08.787 --> 01:34:09.147 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:34:09.837 --> 01:34:12.092 Suzi Prichard-Jones: In Charles Spaniel, where they've, their 01:34:12.372 --> 01:34:15.692 breeding, their, their heads or their skull is too small for their brains. 01:34:15.712 --> 01:34:18.267 And the windpipe is too small. 01:34:18.267 --> 01:34:18.537 And 01:34:18.965 --> 01:34:22.505 Rupert Isaacson: particularly when I'm crossing the line over into the horse boy 01:34:22.505 --> 01:34:28.025 work, where we're doing the mounted work, I actually need a bit of a grumpy old. 01:34:28.760 --> 01:34:30.620 Slightly dominant type of horse. 01:34:30.620 --> 01:34:34.430 I need that because those horses tend not to spook. 01:34:35.310 --> 01:34:38.940 If you, if you go to a horse boy stable, you'll tend to find a whole bunch of 01:34:38.940 --> 01:34:42.870 like dominant grumps because they've all got that kind of uncle or auntie 01:34:42.870 --> 01:34:47.280 brain where they're like, right, that that's the sort of horse's attitude. 01:34:47.520 --> 01:34:51.870 But that is actually what will often keep you and the child alive when you 01:34:51.870 --> 01:34:56.040 are out there and a wild boar jumps out or someone opens an umbrella 01:34:56.040 --> 01:34:57.450 in front of your horse or whatever. 01:34:57.780 --> 01:35:01.500 And of course with horse boy, we need to be out there in the world. 01:35:01.770 --> 01:35:04.170 We do not spend all our time in arenas. 01:35:04.170 --> 01:35:09.660 Because if you've got autom auto, meaning the Greek word for the self, if the 01:35:10.290 --> 01:35:14.730 problem is I've got selfism, autom, I'm locked within the self, the difficulty is 01:35:14.730 --> 01:35:17.130 the relationship with the exterior world. 01:35:17.400 --> 01:35:19.620 Then the last thing I need to do when I'm working with that person is be 01:35:19.620 --> 01:35:23.970 inside some big industrial sterile shed with sand in it, you know? 01:35:24.390 --> 01:35:27.240 That's not the outside world. 01:35:27.240 --> 01:35:30.450 If the difficulty is the relationship with the exterior world, then 01:35:30.450 --> 01:35:31.590 that is where we must go. 01:35:32.160 --> 01:35:36.060 And in order to do that safely, I need horses that have a, as you 01:35:36.060 --> 01:35:37.530 say, have that courageous spirit. 01:35:38.420 --> 01:35:41.480 And sometimes that means, yeah, we have to work a little harder with 01:35:41.480 --> 01:35:45.620 them and we certainly have to work more in partnership with them. 01:35:45.890 --> 01:35:48.140 Like horse boy horses, we don't tell them what to do. 01:35:48.440 --> 01:35:49.490 'cause we're not picking fights. 01:35:49.490 --> 01:35:50.390 We can't pick fights. 01:35:50.780 --> 01:35:54.530 Like I, if I've got your autistic child on, I can't pick a fight. 01:35:54.950 --> 01:35:59.030 I need my horse to have that attitude of I'm with you, you 01:35:59.030 --> 01:36:01.100 know, I, I can make decisions. 01:36:01.100 --> 01:36:01.430 Yeah. 01:36:01.700 --> 01:36:04.460 Suzi Prichard-Jones: But when you have a child on a horse and it's been 01:36:04.460 --> 01:36:08.720 coming to you for a few weeks Mm. 01:36:08.720 --> 01:36:09.950 Same horse every time. 01:36:10.520 --> 01:36:14.810 Do they build a relationship with the horse, which is different 01:36:14.810 --> 01:36:18.320 to a relationship that, a deeper relationship than they'd have 01:36:18.320 --> 01:36:21.260 with another human being or how? 01:36:22.130 --> 01:36:24.770 Rupert Isaacson: Well the answer, go ahead. 01:36:24.770 --> 01:36:25.100 Sorry. 01:36:25.620 --> 01:36:27.540 Suzi Prichard-Jones: There has to be that trust element 01:36:28.020 --> 01:36:31.470 Rupert Isaacson: there does No, I mean the answer is both yes and no. 01:36:31.500 --> 01:36:36.870 Meaning that not every person, because we're not just dealing with kids who 01:36:36.870 --> 01:36:41.430 comes for our services, is necessarily massively motivated by horses. 01:36:41.700 --> 01:36:46.260 So if we have someone coming in through the door who their horses are, oh 01:36:46.265 --> 01:36:47.490 yeah, yeah, I quite like the horse. 01:36:47.830 --> 01:36:49.570 But really I'd prefer other things. 01:36:49.750 --> 01:36:52.270 Then as you know, with Horse Boy and Movement Method and 01:36:52.270 --> 01:36:53.920 so on, we're very versatile. 01:36:53.920 --> 01:36:57.790 We can follow their interests, include the horse in that as much 01:36:57.790 --> 01:37:00.100 or as little as seems relevant. 01:37:00.520 --> 01:37:03.610 But generally over time, because the horses are around, they're 01:37:03.610 --> 01:37:07.180 going to build relationships with them because they're social animals 01:37:07.180 --> 01:37:08.290 that you build relationships with. 01:37:08.350 --> 01:37:11.560 And then you get a certain number of people who are very horse 01:37:11.560 --> 01:37:14.830 motivated and will absolutely. 01:37:15.475 --> 01:37:18.385 Forge very close and personal relationships with the horses. 01:37:18.445 --> 01:37:23.005 And then within that, there's another subset who will either 01:37:23.005 --> 01:37:26.365 generalize, they love all horses kind of equally, or some of them 01:37:26.365 --> 01:37:28.405 will be no, like, this is my horse. 01:37:29.035 --> 01:37:33.475 So we get all of those ranges of personality type that come through the 01:37:33.475 --> 01:37:37.945 door just as we get all these different ranges of horse personality type, some 01:37:37.945 --> 01:37:41.305 of whom love all people, some of whom only love a couple of people, some 01:37:41.305 --> 01:37:44.875 of whom don't really care for people that much, but hey, you know, and we 01:37:44.875 --> 01:37:46.015 will work with them where they are. 01:37:46.315 --> 01:37:48.955 So it, you, you get all of the above. 01:37:49.005 --> 01:37:53.325 But what we need of course is a horse that is versatile, who can 01:37:53.325 --> 01:37:57.285 be as much or as little horses as necessary in that particular moment 01:37:57.285 --> 01:37:58.785 and has that sort of judgment. 01:37:59.745 --> 01:38:08.865 And also we need a horse that when, you ask him to switch jobs, 01:38:10.155 --> 01:38:16.005 can do so in a professional manner and say, oh, you changed the job. 01:38:16.215 --> 01:38:18.075 And not say, well, you changed the job description on me. 01:38:18.195 --> 01:38:19.380 So, you know, not you. 01:38:19.520 --> 01:38:19.740 No. 01:38:20.240 --> 01:38:22.605 You know, we've all seen that in certain horses. 01:38:22.605 --> 01:38:22.815 Yeah. 01:38:23.085 --> 01:38:27.225 That no, we, we look for the, and so that's where I, it's interesting you talk 01:38:27.225 --> 01:38:32.115 about the biley line when you say, if that line is going, that sort of courageous, 01:38:32.235 --> 01:38:36.615 slightly independent, think for itself line, that rings a bell with me as a, 01:38:37.155 --> 01:38:41.925 as a therapeutic practitioner going, Hmm, we actually need that kind of line. 01:38:42.645 --> 01:38:48.405 Because when they come to do the work with us after their racing career, or 01:38:48.405 --> 01:38:52.335 perhaps they're not even bred for racing, perhaps they're just bred for this. 01:38:52.905 --> 01:38:53.940 Suzi Prichard-Jones: It's interesting you say that. 01:38:54.645 --> 01:38:56.325 That occurred to me during the summer. 01:38:56.325 --> 01:38:59.355 I thought, you know, these horses actually would be ideally suited. 01:38:59.535 --> 01:39:00.255 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 01:39:01.035 --> 01:39:03.435 And just because it's a thoroughbred, does it have to be bred for racing? 01:39:03.435 --> 01:39:03.855 No. 01:39:03.975 --> 01:39:04.335 Right. 01:39:04.905 --> 01:39:05.205 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Because they're, 01:39:06.855 --> 01:39:08.955 Rupert Isaacson: would it be interesting, this would be really interesting to me 01:39:08.955 --> 01:39:12.855 would be to identify what's the subset within the thoroughbreds that are like 01:39:12.855 --> 01:39:14.685 the best suited for our kind of work. 01:39:15.225 --> 01:39:15.315 Mm-hmm. 01:39:15.555 --> 01:39:18.615 And say, well, why can't we, why can't we just breed those as well? 01:39:18.645 --> 01:39:25.095 Like, why does it always have to be a retired horse or from the racetrack? 01:39:26.385 --> 01:39:28.215 Just 'cause it's thoroughbred doesn't mean it has to race. 01:39:28.245 --> 01:39:28.455 Right. 01:39:28.845 --> 01:39:30.345 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Nice thing about getting them from the 01:39:30.345 --> 01:39:35.235 racetrack is that they have, from conception, they've been handled. 01:39:35.640 --> 01:39:36.210 Rupert Isaacson: That's true. 01:39:36.510 --> 01:39:40.200 Suzi Prichard-Jones: All come through basically the same sort of protocol. 01:39:41.250 --> 01:39:41.340 Mm-hmm. 01:39:41.340 --> 01:39:42.270 Know what you're getting. 01:39:42.270 --> 01:39:45.660 You know, that they know how to go up, you know how they, 01:39:45.750 --> 01:39:47.610 they know how to switch leads. 01:39:47.745 --> 01:39:49.355 Rupert Isaacson: They know how to be in a group together. 01:39:49.785 --> 01:39:52.620 Suzi Prichard-Jones: They know how to be in a routine 01:39:54.690 --> 01:39:55.350 routine 01:39:55.590 --> 01:39:56.520 Rupert Isaacson: and take on a job. 01:39:56.640 --> 01:39:57.090 Yeah. 01:39:58.230 --> 01:40:01.560 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Another little beef that I've gotten now 01:40:01.560 --> 01:40:02.925 is not the place to air it, but 01:40:03.315 --> 01:40:03.975 Rupert Isaacson: I hear, oh, go on. 01:40:04.485 --> 01:40:06.045 Suzi Prichard-Jones: The horse welfare. 01:40:06.525 --> 01:40:09.705 And I keep saying to people, you've gotta remember, thoroughbreds are 01:40:09.705 --> 01:40:14.295 not quite the same as any other bush brew because they're a hybrid. 01:40:14.625 --> 01:40:17.175 They've never been out on the planes by themselves. 01:40:17.175 --> 01:40:22.605 They've always deposited, they've always been in stalls and yes. 01:40:23.520 --> 01:40:28.350 You can turn them out and that, but they don't necessarily take to being 01:40:29.010 --> 01:40:31.020 left out in the, in the elements. 01:40:31.300 --> 01:40:34.720 They're very, very much creatures of, of routine. 01:40:35.680 --> 01:40:37.660 Rupert Isaacson: Well also I think because they come from those 01:40:37.660 --> 01:40:41.190 desert lines desert people keep their horses very close to them. 01:40:41.190 --> 01:40:43.680 You know, we all know about the sort of bedwin idea of you have 01:40:43.680 --> 01:40:44.790 the horse in your tent with you. 01:40:45.120 --> 01:40:46.860 Of course not every single one of your horses. 01:40:46.860 --> 01:40:48.750 I think they're a bit selective about which horse they'd bring 01:40:48.750 --> 01:40:51.430 in, but nonetheless yeah, yeah. 01:40:51.460 --> 01:40:54.160 They're horses that are bred to be very human focused. 01:40:54.400 --> 01:41:00.310 I think that this is very true and I think this is often not overlooked even, 01:41:00.310 --> 01:41:04.750 but sort of, it's not that it's ignored 'cause people don't know, but I think 01:41:04.750 --> 01:41:08.320 people have a perception of thorough is this wild, uncontrolled thing. 01:41:09.790 --> 01:41:12.370 Whereas actually, as you say, no, they're, they're selectively 01:41:12.370 --> 01:41:14.830 bred for humanness a bit as well. 01:41:14.830 --> 01:41:15.940 People, people ness. 01:41:16.450 --> 01:41:17.050 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Very much so. 01:41:17.050 --> 01:41:18.520 They have a lot of contact with people. 01:41:19.840 --> 01:41:20.140 Yeah. 01:41:21.415 --> 01:41:21.635 Rupert Isaacson: But 01:41:22.180 --> 01:41:24.910 Suzi Prichard-Jones: no, it's like any, any horse, not every horse is 01:41:24.910 --> 01:41:26.530 going to be suitable for your work. 01:41:26.560 --> 01:41:27.220 Not every company. 01:41:27.220 --> 01:41:27.400 Indeed. 01:41:28.660 --> 01:41:33.430 And you need your big old cold bloods and your warm bloods and your hairy pony and 01:41:33.955 --> 01:41:34.235 Rupert Isaacson: absolutely 01:41:35.620 --> 01:41:36.160 Suzi Prichard-Jones: all of them. 01:41:36.490 --> 01:41:42.310 But I, I think the key is letting people know what's happening in the equine 01:41:42.310 --> 01:41:47.860 assisted world and putting the science behind it, telling them why you are. 01:41:47.860 --> 01:41:52.270 The only person that I've found in the, this area is the horse boy. 01:41:52.270 --> 01:41:55.660 People that will actually tell you this is the science. 01:41:56.410 --> 01:42:02.740 And if you've got the science, then you have buy-in because you have somebody 01:42:02.740 --> 01:42:08.110 who has an autistic child and they're going, oh, it's not just about being 01:42:08.110 --> 01:42:11.710 what somebody and putting my child on a horse and leading him around. 01:42:11.920 --> 01:42:17.290 It's about getting his hips to move and he's releasing oxytocin. 01:42:17.290 --> 01:42:18.010 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 01:42:18.640 --> 01:42:20.650 Suzi Prichard-Jones: So something's happening in his body. 01:42:20.650 --> 01:42:25.420 It's when he gets in that, that space with the the horse, the magnetic 01:42:25.420 --> 01:42:28.420 field of the horse's heart, is going to affect my child's heart, 01:42:29.080 --> 01:42:29.530 Rupert Isaacson: absolutely 01:42:30.250 --> 01:42:31.690 Suzi Prichard-Jones: breathing it. 01:42:31.750 --> 01:42:35.410 He's going to learn quite quickly that he has to somewhat self moderate. 01:42:35.795 --> 01:42:41.435 You explain those because when people hear about equine assisted services, 01:42:41.495 --> 01:42:46.055 they think it's putting people with horses and it's outside and it's nice 01:42:46.055 --> 01:42:47.285 and it's healthy and it's good for them. 01:42:47.495 --> 01:42:47.885 Tell them why. 01:42:48.875 --> 01:42:49.565 Rupert Isaacson: Exactly. 01:42:49.655 --> 01:42:50.735 No, I couldn't agree more. 01:42:51.105 --> 01:42:54.615 Without the science to, to be fair to people, why should they support 01:42:54.615 --> 01:42:57.735 something that isn't explained? 01:42:58.225 --> 01:43:02.665 And it, it's one of my favorite beefs actually, is when I 01:43:02.665 --> 01:43:06.055 hear my own colleagues saying. 01:43:07.045 --> 01:43:09.055 Well, you can't really explain what's, it's just, it's like 01:43:09.055 --> 01:43:10.075 it's a miraculous thing. 01:43:10.075 --> 01:43:11.815 It's like, no, it's not. 01:43:11.815 --> 01:43:14.575 And that's a hard thing to fund it. 01:43:14.575 --> 01:43:17.155 That actually is something going on quite systematically and 01:43:17.155 --> 01:43:21.745 physiologically, and it's not that hard to get your head around it. 01:43:22.165 --> 01:43:25.435 Rock your hips, get this feelgood hormone that calms your nervous system. 01:43:25.495 --> 01:43:27.745 That also makes you communicate, hey, two for one. 01:43:28.075 --> 01:43:31.885 And then because you're crossing the midline all the time, which is solving 01:43:31.885 --> 01:43:34.255 problems, your brain produces a protein. 01:43:34.255 --> 01:43:37.525 It's called BDNF, brain derived neurotrophic factor that turns 01:43:37.525 --> 01:43:40.105 into a stem cell, which turns into a neuron, billions of 'em. 01:43:40.105 --> 01:43:41.665 So the brain produces more of itself. 01:43:41.665 --> 01:43:45.325 And among those neurons is these things with a funny name, sounds 01:43:45.325 --> 01:43:49.975 like a Pokemon character, kinji cells, and they cover social skills. 01:43:49.975 --> 01:43:52.615 So if you do all that stuff together, you're gonna see change. 01:43:52.795 --> 01:43:57.535 That's not a hard thing to learn, to just wrap off your tongue. 01:43:57.925 --> 01:43:59.665 And it's, it's worth, I think. 01:44:00.220 --> 01:44:04.870 The while of equine practitioners to practice that. 01:44:05.170 --> 01:44:10.660 Because when we have to advocate for ourselves, and if, you know, one, one 01:44:10.660 --> 01:44:14.590 of my other piece sometimes is when I'm doing trainings and someone will 01:44:14.590 --> 01:44:17.500 say, and I'll say, look, you kind of actually do need to know this. 01:44:17.500 --> 01:44:21.670 You kind of do need to be able to, to somebody memorize this, or at least put 01:44:21.670 --> 01:44:23.980 it up on your wall so you can refer to it. 01:44:24.250 --> 01:44:27.220 When people come into your program and say, why is it working? 01:44:27.460 --> 01:44:29.780 It is that thing that diagram up there. 01:44:30.080 --> 01:44:32.870 Or when funders come in, they look at it and say, oh, it's that diagram. 01:44:32.870 --> 01:44:37.190 Oh, even better, when the children and adults that you serve, they 01:44:37.190 --> 01:44:39.110 will learn the neuroscience. 01:44:39.110 --> 01:44:43.460 You know, my son knew that neuroscience by the time he was 11, gives them 01:44:43.460 --> 01:44:45.350 a user manual to their brain. 01:44:45.350 --> 01:44:46.370 It, it, it's a tool. 01:44:46.370 --> 01:44:50.390 It, it makes people more independent to know these things. 01:44:50.570 --> 01:44:52.520 And sometimes I get, well, I'm not interested in science. 01:44:53.415 --> 01:44:53.780 Suzi Prichard-Jones: No, no. 01:44:53.810 --> 01:44:54.260 You, yeah. 01:44:54.260 --> 01:44:55.700 Everybody has to know why. 01:44:55.910 --> 01:44:56.210 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 01:44:57.395 --> 01:44:59.465 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And especially if you're gonna put your hand in your pocket. 01:44:59.855 --> 01:45:00.215 Rupert Isaacson: Yes. 01:45:00.485 --> 01:45:02.525 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Have some woman come to you and say, well, we can't 01:45:02.525 --> 01:45:06.245 really explain, it's just that this, this happens and it's Marvel Simpson Miracle. 01:45:06.370 --> 01:45:06.590 Rupert Isaacson: Yes. 01:45:07.260 --> 01:45:11.495 And it's just esoteric and say, well that sounds grand, but I'm not gonna fund it. 01:45:11.495 --> 01:45:11.855 Yeah. 01:45:12.305 --> 01:45:15.995 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Let me take my coffee and walk on now, but show them that this 01:45:15.995 --> 01:45:17.705 is something that you can replicate. 01:45:17.915 --> 01:45:20.540 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:45:20.795 --> 01:45:24.965 Suzi Prichard-Jones: The new New Market Pony Academy, which is at the British 01:45:25.415 --> 01:45:29.785 Sourcing Horse racing school in new Market they run a five day course. 01:45:29.875 --> 01:45:31.405 I dunno if you're familiar with it. 01:45:31.405 --> 01:45:31.495 I'm 01:45:31.495 --> 01:45:31.585 Rupert Isaacson: not. 01:45:31.945 --> 01:45:32.095 No. 01:45:32.095 --> 01:45:32.440 Tell me about it. 01:45:33.370 --> 01:45:35.560 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Well, they're in New market at the British Horse 01:45:35.560 --> 01:45:39.400 Racing School, and they realize that there are lots of people in new 01:45:39.400 --> 01:45:40.720 market who know nothing about horses. 01:45:41.895 --> 01:45:42.245 Rupert Isaacson: Right. 01:45:42.610 --> 01:45:42.730 Yeah. 01:45:43.540 --> 01:45:46.600 Suzi Prichard-Jones: They went to the elementary schools and 01:45:46.840 --> 01:45:50.680 they took out children who were having trouble in school. 01:45:51.130 --> 01:45:53.620 And had some social issues and different things. 01:45:54.100 --> 01:45:55.900 And they've created this five day course. 01:45:55.900 --> 01:46:01.330 They have a little classroom and they have a little book and they have pictures of 01:46:01.780 --> 01:46:06.160 dandy brush, body brush who thick, and you have to write what this one does, 01:46:06.160 --> 01:46:08.440 and then how would you muck out a stool? 01:46:08.440 --> 01:46:09.550 And they have to do that. 01:46:09.580 --> 01:46:12.850 And then they get a tape measure and a measuring stick. 01:46:13.180 --> 01:46:17.980 How many centimeters is 12 two go measure your pony. 01:46:18.100 --> 01:46:19.720 How many centimeters is that? 01:46:19.930 --> 01:46:22.240 So they're doing math, they're doing things like that. 01:46:22.570 --> 01:46:25.540 And then they have they take them out in the garden. 01:46:25.570 --> 01:46:28.330 They put them on the, the ponies in the indoor school. 01:46:28.330 --> 01:46:30.130 They lead them round by the end of the week. 01:46:30.220 --> 01:46:32.440 Those kids are trotting around there. 01:46:33.280 --> 01:46:34.865 I don't Which organization is this? 01:46:35.860 --> 01:46:38.170 It's called the New Market Pony Academy. 01:46:39.910 --> 01:46:39.970 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:46:39.970 --> 01:46:40.870 And it's run by, 01:46:41.560 --> 01:46:43.750 Suzi Prichard-Jones: it's, I think it's back by Go Dolphin. 01:46:43.750 --> 01:46:44.410 Actually. 01:46:44.710 --> 01:46:47.065 It's Sheikh Mohammed has, has done an enormous really. 01:46:48.265 --> 01:46:48.595 Yeah, 01:46:48.865 --> 01:46:50.125 Rupert Isaacson: thank you for turning me onto this. 01:46:50.125 --> 01:46:50.845 I had no idea. 01:46:51.385 --> 01:46:55.555 Suzi Prichard-Jones: A British horse racing school in New Market, and it's run 01:46:55.555 --> 01:46:57.505 by a wonderful lady called Penny Taylor. 01:46:57.925 --> 01:46:58.885 Rupert Isaacson: Will you connect me? 01:46:59.245 --> 01:47:00.715 I would love to have a conversation. 01:47:01.115 --> 01:47:04.265 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And I think the Queen might be one of the patrons. 01:47:04.685 --> 01:47:06.000 She's certainly been there from beyond 01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:06.130 Rupert Isaacson: the grave, 01:47:08.795 --> 01:47:09.725 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Quin, Camilla. 01:47:10.115 --> 01:47:10.295 But, 01:47:10.560 --> 01:47:10.780 Rupert Isaacson: but 01:47:10.895 --> 01:47:14.675 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Rupert, the testimonials, I mean, I read some of those 01:47:14.675 --> 01:47:16.595 and they just, they bring you to two. 01:47:17.585 --> 01:47:21.545 This, there was wonderful girl, I think it was a little girl, might've been a boy. 01:47:21.815 --> 01:47:24.155 And she said, this is my happy place. 01:47:25.505 --> 01:47:25.775 How long 01:47:25.775 --> 01:47:26.825 Rupert Isaacson: have they been running the program? 01:47:28.055 --> 01:47:28.985 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I'd say five years. 01:47:28.985 --> 01:47:29.345 Anyway. 01:47:30.035 --> 01:47:33.275 Rupert Isaacson: So isn't it interesting that here's something big going on? 01:47:34.595 --> 01:47:36.665 I'd never heard of it until I met you. 01:47:36.845 --> 01:47:37.145 Yeah, 01:47:37.235 --> 01:47:40.155 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I talked to somebody who's very involved in 01:47:40.305 --> 01:47:44.145 racing or whose son is very involved in racing and she has grandchildren. 01:47:44.550 --> 01:47:45.330 New market. 01:47:46.260 --> 01:47:48.870 And I said to them, new market, what's that? 01:47:49.890 --> 01:47:52.290 And I go, please tell me. 01:47:53.430 --> 01:47:53.940 Tell tell me. 01:47:53.940 --> 01:47:54.990 You've never heard of it. 01:47:54.990 --> 01:47:56.910 You of all people never heard of it. 01:47:57.360 --> 01:48:00.960 Living in new market on the FA road and did not know. 01:48:01.770 --> 01:48:01.950 Yeah. 01:48:02.250 --> 01:48:02.460 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:48:02.460 --> 01:48:04.830 So once again, this is at the British Racing School and it's 01:48:04.830 --> 01:48:06.660 called the New Market Pony Academy. 01:48:07.140 --> 01:48:07.350 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Thank you. 01:48:07.920 --> 01:48:08.220 And the 01:48:08.220 --> 01:48:09.270 Rupert Isaacson: lady running it is 01:48:09.630 --> 01:48:10.350 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Penny Taylor. 01:48:10.770 --> 01:48:11.400 Rupert Isaacson: Penny Taylor. 01:48:11.400 --> 01:48:13.380 This sounds like somebody we need to be talking to. 01:48:13.440 --> 01:48:13.770 Yeah. 01:48:14.610 --> 01:48:14.760 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Yeah. 01:48:14.790 --> 01:48:16.380 Rupert Isaacson: This sounds like somebody who gets things done 01:48:17.730 --> 01:48:18.690 Suzi Prichard-Jones: and it's backed by Gado. 01:48:19.500 --> 01:48:19.950 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:48:20.490 --> 01:48:21.030 Wonderful. 01:48:21.630 --> 01:48:22.395 Suzi Prichard-Jones: So, no, it's, it's, it's, 01:48:22.770 --> 01:48:24.360 Rupert Isaacson: so there's something that answered my question. 01:48:24.360 --> 01:48:28.620 What, you know, the people that the well in the establishment of the 01:48:28.620 --> 01:48:29.850 racing industry, what are they doing? 01:48:29.850 --> 01:48:32.100 Well, there's something they're doing and I didn't know until 01:48:32.100 --> 01:48:33.090 I met you and you told me. 01:48:34.380 --> 01:48:36.960 Suzi Prichard-Jones: And that happens, you know, this is the same old story. 01:48:37.470 --> 01:48:37.830 Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm. 01:48:38.610 --> 01:48:41.280 Suzi Prichard-Jones: People in the equine assisted world don't know what 01:48:41.280 --> 01:48:42.990 other people are doing in the sector. 01:48:43.045 --> 01:48:43.245 Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely. 01:48:44.100 --> 01:48:45.060 Guilty as charged. 01:48:45.060 --> 01:48:46.440 I'm, I'm busy doing my thing. 01:48:46.470 --> 01:48:46.530 Yeah. 01:48:47.790 --> 01:48:49.500 But that's the point of this podcast, right? 01:48:49.500 --> 01:48:54.540 Is that we exchange information and we don't just wait till we 01:48:54.540 --> 01:48:55.920 meet each other at conferences. 01:48:56.250 --> 01:48:56.700 You know, 01:48:57.185 --> 01:48:58.590 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I need get done. 01:48:58.590 --> 01:49:00.210 So, no, it's this, this is great. 01:49:00.300 --> 01:49:02.060 And let's, let's rock on. 01:49:02.060 --> 01:49:03.620 Let's, all right. 01:49:03.950 --> 01:49:10.915 Venue together for next year and let's get the equine assisted world, well publicized 01:49:10.915 --> 01:49:12.805 within the, the racing industry. 01:49:12.805 --> 01:49:13.195 And let's see. 01:49:13.705 --> 01:49:13.765 So 01:49:13.765 --> 01:49:16.255 Rupert Isaacson: let's, let's make a deal for, for our listeners, Susie and I 01:49:16.255 --> 01:49:23.785 will pledge to do this podcast again in what, a year to 18 months, depending on. 01:49:23.785 --> 01:49:30.415 And we will give you a report of where we've gotten to, and it 01:49:30.415 --> 01:49:33.385 will, wherever it is, it will be further along than where we are now. 01:49:33.995 --> 01:49:34.220 The other 01:49:35.945 --> 01:49:38.595 Suzi Prichard-Jones: they have that they started in the last three years by a guy 01:49:38.595 --> 01:49:41.175 called Bobby Beavers is Autism and racing. 01:49:43.710 --> 01:49:48.320 And they have there's several race courses around England that are set 01:49:48.320 --> 01:49:50.930 up for autistic people and children 01:49:51.950 --> 01:49:54.770 Rupert Isaacson: to come and enjoy the day as a sort of sensory friendly. 01:49:56.330 --> 01:49:56.810 Okay, yeah. 01:49:57.650 --> 01:49:58.370 Talk to them too. 01:49:58.820 --> 01:50:02.105 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Where I live in Ireland, down the road is Mooth, 01:50:02.390 --> 01:50:06.620 which you're from, and it has a big sign as you come into Mooth 01:50:06.620 --> 01:50:08.810 and it says Autism Friendly Town. 01:50:10.100 --> 01:50:10.250 Yeah. 01:50:10.430 --> 01:50:12.830 Rupert Isaacson: And that, of course, Mooth is right where Kil CL is, 01:50:12.830 --> 01:50:15.050 which is our horse boy center there. 01:50:15.470 --> 01:50:18.020 But it's, it's okay. 01:50:18.020 --> 01:50:22.190 So, but these are good initiatives, but I'm still not 01:50:22.190 --> 01:50:23.150 hearing the word Jockey Club. 01:50:23.330 --> 01:50:27.410 So that's what we need to do, is we can, you know, we need to go 01:50:27.410 --> 01:50:30.080 to them and say, you know, lances, it's not just people like Horse Boy. 01:50:30.770 --> 01:50:34.040 You've got stuff within your own industry that ready to go to support 01:50:34.790 --> 01:50:35.150 Suzi Prichard-Jones: and the. 01:50:35.840 --> 01:50:40.820 Within the industry, Rupert, that you can get on this bus? 01:50:40.995 --> 01:50:41.215 Rupert Isaacson: Mm. 01:50:42.140 --> 01:50:44.030 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Show them and make them aware of it. 01:50:45.170 --> 01:50:45.200 Okay. 01:50:45.200 --> 01:50:47.510 You've got a bus moving forwards. 01:50:47.840 --> 01:50:47.990 Rupert Isaacson: Alright. 01:50:47.990 --> 01:50:48.350 Sold. 01:50:48.350 --> 01:50:49.040 I'll be there. 01:50:49.040 --> 01:50:49.790 Set up the gig. 01:50:49.790 --> 01:50:50.420 I'll show up. 01:50:50.990 --> 01:50:53.750 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Put pressure on the establishment. 01:50:53.795 --> 01:50:54.095 Rupert Isaacson: All right. 01:50:56.870 --> 01:50:57.200 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Thank you. 01:50:57.770 --> 01:50:58.190 Rupert Isaacson: Deal. 01:50:59.300 --> 01:50:59.870 Suzi Prichard-Jones: I found Alright then. 01:50:59.870 --> 01:51:00.020 Should 01:51:00.170 --> 01:51:01.370 Rupert Isaacson: we wrap it up there then? 01:51:01.580 --> 01:51:05.300 But before, before you go there, some people will want to know your book. 01:51:05.720 --> 01:51:09.070 Tell us the, the, the, the title again and where they can get it. 01:51:09.740 --> 01:51:10.580 Suzi Prichard-Jones: It's outta print so 01:51:11.690 --> 01:51:12.290 Rupert Isaacson: Best books always are, 01:51:13.365 --> 01:51:14.390 Suzi Prichard-Jones: you can't get it. 01:51:14.390 --> 01:51:16.145 It was called barley. 01:51:16.530 --> 01:51:18.630 The Thoroughbreds Ticking Time Bomb 01:51:19.590 --> 01:51:20.460 Rupert Isaacson: Barley. 01:51:20.580 --> 01:51:22.830 The Thoroughbreds Ticking Time Bomb. 01:51:23.310 --> 01:51:24.480 Why is it a ticking time bomb? 01:51:24.990 --> 01:51:27.210 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Because the line was fizzling out. 01:51:28.440 --> 01:51:28.620 Yeah, 01:51:28.830 --> 01:51:31.695 Rupert Isaacson: but they could get it on meta mops and they could get it on Amazon. 01:51:31.695 --> 01:51:31.855 Right. 01:51:33.120 --> 01:51:35.400 Suzi Prichard-Jones: No, I don't think you can get it on Amazon anymore. 01:51:35.470 --> 01:51:36.130 You could try. 01:51:36.460 --> 01:51:38.350 Rupert Isaacson: Just 'cause it's outta print doesn't mean it's not on Amazon. 01:51:38.590 --> 01:51:39.100 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Well, it might be. 01:51:39.100 --> 01:51:39.520 It might 01:51:39.525 --> 01:51:39.605 Rupert Isaacson: be. 01:51:39.605 --> 01:51:39.845 Yeah. 01:51:39.845 --> 01:51:40.510 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:51:40.990 --> 01:51:42.010 No secondhand stuff. 01:51:42.010 --> 01:51:42.460 All right. 01:51:43.030 --> 01:51:44.200 I will get one. 01:51:44.650 --> 01:51:44.860 Suzi Prichard-Jones: All right. 01:51:44.860 --> 01:51:47.440 Well I will, I will rust one up and send you. 01:51:47.800 --> 01:51:48.280 Rupert Isaacson: Thank you. 01:51:49.120 --> 01:51:49.570 Alright. 01:51:50.110 --> 01:51:54.830 In that case lads, we will reconvene with Susie and give 01:51:54.830 --> 01:51:56.360 you a report of where we got to. 01:51:56.900 --> 01:51:58.820 Thank you so much for coming on the show. 01:51:59.270 --> 01:51:59.870 Suzi Prichard-Jones: Thank you. 01:51:59.870 --> 01:52:01.190 It's been a pleasure and an honor. 01:52:01.428 --> 01:52:04.548 Rupert Isaacson: I hope you enjoyed today's conversation as much as I did. 01:52:05.088 --> 01:52:09.988 If you like what we're doing here, please do like, subscribe, tell a friend. 01:52:09.998 --> 01:52:14.168 It so helps us to get this valuable work done and the message of 01:52:14.168 --> 01:52:16.048 Equine Assisted Stuff out there. 01:52:16.198 --> 01:52:19.278 And if you're interested in more conversations, you might want to check 01:52:19.288 --> 01:52:21.968 out I'll live free ride free podcast. 01:52:22.358 --> 01:52:27.118 And if you'd like to support the podcasts, please go to rupertisakson. 01:52:27.168 --> 01:52:29.658 com and click on the Patreon link. 01:52:30.358 --> 01:52:33.878 If you're a professional in the equine assisted field or considering a career 01:52:34.228 --> 01:52:37.738 in the equine assisted field, you might want to check out our three 01:52:37.748 --> 01:52:43.508 certification programs, horseboy method, movement method, and taquin. 01:52:43.593 --> 01:52:45.063 Equine integration. 01:52:45.333 --> 01:52:50.283 You can find 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