Intro:
Lost Boys,
Chapelle's Show,
Dianne Wiest,
Brian Cox, Hillary and Bill.
Let Me Run This By You: I need to KNOW what your major malfunction is. Compulsive liars, mushrooms.
Interview: We talk to Scott Torrence about raves, feelng famous as a club kid, and surviving Tulsa.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
1 (8s):
And Jen Bosworth and I'm Gina . We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? And then we watched lost boys, which by the way, the lost boys is the lost boys, like from the eighties and that movie. It's hilarious. So in a real way, like there's some comedy gold in that movie that both Myles and I were like, like, look, it's a cheeseball eighties movie, but it holds up.
1 (53s):
There's not, there's no real. I'm trying to think of like, look the thing that Dave, there's no people of color in the movie that sucks. Yeah. But in terms of overtly racial, racist, or sexist, sexist jokes, not, and obviously it's creepy and it's a vampire flake, but it holds up, I was shocked. I thought this is going to be a piece of shit. So what is the thought, how did you arrive at watching this movie? So, okay. So that is such a great, that's a great question in that Myles and I never agree on what to watch ever, ever, ever, ever his idea of like, he wants to watch good things, right?
1 (1m 35s):
Like he wants to watch real stuff. I have to be in a very specific mood to watch real shit. I can't be triggered about anything in any way. I can't, it's really lame. Like I can't, so you're a delicate flower. Yeah. And I think it's also, I just am unwilling to use the brain power and the emotional wherewithal to focus on something that's like really good. So, okay. So which is why I thought lost boys. Right. Cause who cares? But it was so good, but Myles likes to watch, like he wanted me to watch the harder they fall, you know, the new sort of Western on I, I watched a little bit and it was, it was, I thought it was really, really well-written, but it was also Uber violent and Uber, like it was just too much.
1 (2m 23s):
So it didn't. Okay. Chappelle show. Interesting choice. We started watching the first season of Chappelle show. Wow. Wow. No, it is not a shocker that Mr. Chappelle is, is having the problems that he is having. Now, if you go back and watch the show, it's really interesting. And I, I don't know where I fall. I do think that if you kill affordable housing, I hate your guts because those were all of my former clients. And also, and just for humanity's sake. So I hate that. And we talked about that on the podcast. Right. And then, but anyway, so we stumbled upon and I was like, let's watch it pops up on my Netflix feed because why not?
1 (3m 6s):
And, and I was like, all right, let's watch it. And I'm expecting it to be so bad. First of all, Diane weest is a goddamn national treasure. She,
2 (3m 16s):
She really is. She really is. She's such a good,
1 (3m 20s):
Okay. So if I had to pick my, I always play this game, my new parents, my parents are going to be Brian Cox and Diane weest. Yes. I mean, it's, it's going to be very weird, but it, it, that if I quirky, I told you how I met Brian Cox and asked him to be my new dad. Excuse me. It's a lot before,
2 (3m 43s):
After all of the time I've spent talking to you about succession and reading Brian Cox's autobiography.
1 (3m 49s):
I just remembered it. I remembered it when I was talking, thinking about Diane, Diane weest lasted. It was before it was during adaptation that Nick cage made. And I like, I somehow it was, he, he was in a anyway. It doesn't matter. The point is I got to talking to him at a party and I was like, I want you to be my new dad. And at the time my dad was still alive. Right. So, oh, wow. Like, you know what his response was. I get that a lot. And he was serious. He said, people project all this shit onto me.
1 (4m 30s):
I believe
2 (4m 31s):
That makes a lot of sense. Oh, wow. Very interesting.
1 (4m 35s):
Yeah. This is like, before I knew anything about anything and right, right,
2 (4m 39s):
Right, right.
1 (4m 40s):
Oh my God. So we watched the lost boys, all this to say, and we just did it because it was something that we both could agree on that wasn't going to cause me weirdness because I'm weird and it wasn't going to four miles or what ends up happening because I, you know, I was watching about a Canadian cannibal the other night and he's like, I can't watch this before bed. Like, I can't under fair enough. Fair enough. But you know who, the stars of this movie are the true stars. Corey Feldman inquiry, aim pain. Yeah. And the other frog brother, they were Hulu like Cory Ames, Hames, his him, Hey right.
1 (5m 25s):
With age Corey Haim's delivery costumes. Oh my God. The clothing, like from the eighties and his delivery and his, his acting chops, his comedic acting chops are like fucking unparalleled. They're like on par with some deep shit. Anyway. So I that's my recommendation wash the lost boys. I wish there were people of color in it, of course, but
2 (5m 53s):
Maybe they'll do a remake, but that seems to be the way that they, they, you know, fix that well, not to brag, but at my dinner, my mellantine dinner last night, two other very special people were at our same restaurant. Whew. Hillary and bill Clinton. Yes. And it was so moving to see them. It was especially her, him. I'm like, I've changed my tune a little bit about him, but, and she is just as energetic and bubbly and, and kind of course, I didn't want to go up up to them.
2 (6m 36s):
I've never done that, but I've never gone up to a celebrity and said, can I whatever, say hello or take your picture with her. But on the way out, they were seated in such a way that you could sort of see in when, when you left. And I just didn't, you know, I just blew kisses at her and she just, you know, waved her hands and gave me a big smile. It was really, really nice. That is so awesome. We it's okay. We didn't deserve her honestly. Right. We would have, we would've ruined it in one way or another. And then juxtapose that with reading this morning. I don't know how I got on this topic. I start reading about what's happening with Kanye right now.
2 (7m 19s):
It's really sad.
1 (7m 20s):
It's
2 (7m 20s):
Really sad. And why are we still in this place where we, don't not enough of us to know that this is not something to joke about. This is not something to salivate over. Like this person really needs help. And the rich, the Oop, the ultra rich in some ways are in a similar position to the ultra poor when it comes to basic things like, you know, health care, we've talked about it a lot with respect to drugs and all the yes, yes. People that are in celebrities lives that ultimately I think lead to their death, but also the, this issue of mental health going, and I'm sorry, but Brittany Spears seems to be going off the rails too.
2 (8m 1s):
I, I'm not saying that it was right. That she was in that conservatorship, but I think she was on meds that she's not on now. And I'm sorry. I wish it weren't the case that really sick mentally ill people needed to take meds, but they do. They just do there's no, it's just the truth. There's no point in like, quibbling about it.
1 (8m 29s):
All this to say. I have never been in the presence of someone who literally is a compulsive liar. Like I've been around people that, cause this is LA right. Everyone is a blowhard. This person is a pathological compulsive liar. It is so, so, and the reason I bring it up is one to gossip, but to like, right, but to, to talk about this is why, like I was thinking about you, how you posted, how you saw that my name is Anna, right? Like, and how we're writing about Agnes.
1 (9m 10s):
Right? So Agnes, I don't think is a compulsive liar at all, but she's a con person. So there's there's and this person I was around was fascinating. And I actually, once I knew the diagnosis of a person of this person, it, it, it, it settled me. So I find, I don't know if you have this experience where, when I'm around someone and I don't know what their major malfunction is, but there is a malfunction, I am petrified. Right. I'm like, stick me in a room. And someone's like, okay, this person has narcissistic personality disorder with, you know, with, with, with psychotic tendency, whatever it is.
1 (9m 57s):
I'm like, okay, I know what I'm working with. Right. I know what I'm working with. The once her diagnosis, like this is a diagnosis that she's received, right. A personality. But anyway, it put, when I, so I could be in the room or outside with this person and I could say, oh, and this person is so narcissistic. They never listened to our PA, like they, they won't listen to our podcasts. She didn't even really remember who I was in a way in that way. Anyway. So they had a context or whatever. So watching a compulsive liar at work, fascinating, Gina, fascinating.
1 (10m 37s):
Because you can see as I'm, so I'm a kind of a gregarious gal, right? Duh. But like, I am, I like people, but I could see when I was telling a story, I was telling the story about my mushroom use. Right? And so how I tried to drive a car on mushroom, it's a Berry funny and sad and funny story. And it's a true story. Fucking happened to me with Ana Maria, who came from Vashon island and Jeffrey Brown and I, and Ana took mushrooms. You've never told me this story. It's the greatest story ever told. I mean, like you told me that you saw a family and you thought they were calling themselves the large family. That was when I was on acid. So different in solving or something different, different fake.
1 (11m 18s):
So, okay. Went to south America, went to Paraguay for a Migos, gave vaccinations. My partner was on a Maria Ana, Maria. She was from Vashon island off the coast of Seattle on bash on island is a hippie island on the, on the grounds of the police station. Grew hallucinogenic mushrooms. All the kids knew about it. Ana Maria decides I want to come visit you. We, we kind of made friends. I'm going to visit you in Chicago. She fucking brings tons of hallucinogens on the plane at 16 she's 16, I'm 16. But to just to disguise them, she puts them in a huge bag of popery.
1 (12m 1s):
So we don't know what's the mushroom and what's the popery okay. Oh, like just mixed it in. Oh yeah. So here in burping up. Well, so we didn't know Jeffrey Brown, of course. And he's fine talking about this. Cause we've talked about it. Jeffrey Brown is like, I'll do them with you. They were no measurements. There were no, we grabbed handfuls of what we thought were, oh, I was 16. Okay. Fine. It all was fun. We had a good time. It was really gross in my throat. Burned from the popery don't know how many mushroom caps I took probably a lot. Probably like, cause it doesn't take a lot, depending on the phone, it's all fun and games until they were, we, I had to drive home and I was driving my mom's Honda.
1 (12m 46s):
So I get in the car and we're on lake shore drive and I stopped the car and I say on lake shore drive and Ana and Jeffrey, we had dropped Jeffrey off and Jeffrey's like honest, like what are you doing? And I'm like, I have to stop the car because, and she's like, why? And I was like, I gotta be honest. I don't know how this car works. Like I couldn't figure out the mechanics of why it was. I said there's piston pistons involved. And she was like talking. Okay. So it crazy. So I'm stuck on lake shore drive. Right. And you were 16. I mean, there's so many things vulnerable about this attrition and I protein anxiety.
1 (13m 29s):
Right. So that's a whole, so, okay. Finally she's like, and she doesn't drive. Right? She doesn't drive. She's 16. She's never licensed yet. She doesn't know how. I barely know how so it was, she's like you have to pull back on. You have to, I think I probably managed to pull off a little bit and she's like, will you, do you know where you live? She's in a new city. She doesn't, there's no cell phones. And I'm like, I live, I know where I live. I live in Evanston. And so that was good. But then I get back in the car and I'm like, oh my God, Ana, I have bad news. And she's like, oh my God, what? And I'm like, there are people chasing us because the headlights in the bed, I was like, there are a lot of cars chasing us. What do you mean women?
1 (14m 10s):
Yeah. And I was like, oh my God. And so I then started to panic, of course. And I, and I go home and I'm like, my parents are having a fucking dinner party Sunday night. Here's this poor girl who brought drugs on an airplane with me who doesn't know my parents from Adam. I lived with her for two months. They don't know her. So I walk in to the dinner party and I say, I'm so sorry to interrupt, but I've just taken. Apparently I've just eaten a lot of hallucinogenic mushrooms and I'm, I'm freaking out. And my mom goes, oh my fucking God.
1 (14m 52s):
Like she like was pissed off. And my dad just put his head in his hands and was like, I'll talk you down. And so he was lovely. Yeah. It was great. My dad, thank God. He was a psychologist, even though he's fucked up. He had some training in this. So I sat with my dad and talked for, and then they were like, we got it. He's like, you should eat something. So like, they should have ordered it, but they're like, no, let's go to the bagel. And I'm like, okay. So we go. So we all go, my parents and this were this woman who is unknown to us other than now my parents know she's a drug dealer. Right. So we go to the bagel now.
1 (15m 33s):
I don't know what was happening, Gina, but we walk into the bagel and there's a clown and full clown suit behind. And I start hyperventilating and I want to leave. And my mom was like, no, you have to stay like, she's punishing me. Right. So I'm like, oh my God. Oh my God. So we say it was like a birthday party or something, but it was like Sunday night. Okay. So we sit down, the waitress comes over to the dinner party. So they all leave. Like it was a bad situation. It was like three other couples crisis teenage crisis. Okay. They leave whatever. All right. So then we go to the bagel and we see the clown or I'm like, oh my God, no, no, no.
1 (16m 16s):
So we set in another area and the waitress comes and literally this is what happened. My mom's like, Hey, the way they were, my mom is like a huge, super dot. And she goes, what's the soup. And the lady goes, oh, cream of mushroom. And then my mom and everybody wraps into laughter. I feel like I'm on, you know, again, tripping. So it was a bad scene. It was a bad scene. And, and I had panic attacks from that from weeks on. So I know that I need to be very careful, but okay. I tell the story for this reason. One, it's a funny story. Yeah. It was my introduction to psychedelics, but too, as I'm telling this story, I see this other person at the party livid and thinking, how can I out story this story?
1 (17m 10s):
Oh shoot. Oh, no, I didn't mean for that. And I thought, oh, of course not. Of course you're not living your life to injure and are looking and looking at me and thinking, you can almost see the wheels turning about like, how am I going to one up the story at this dinner party outside at 8:00 PM. Like, it it's crazy, but there's competition going. And I'm like, and then, so then this person launches into this totally unbelievable, like crazy story about hallucinogens. It was so sad. And I, I wanted to say so many things to this person.
1 (17m 56s):
I said nothing, cause I'm not.
2 (17m 59s):
Yeah. Right. That's, that's their, that's their journey. But did the person whose name we will have bleeped by the time this airs, did that person like say something to you in advance? Or you're just saying you experienced this compulsive liar.
1 (18m 14s):
No, no. They've known, you know, they've known this person forever and it it's the things that this person says is wild. Like we'll say I bought a house and they didn't buy a house. I am going to Greece tomorrow.
2 (18m 30s):
No, no. And, and the person who was having the party is just okay with it because
1 (18m 36s):
My husband chimes in. Cause he's, he's, he's like, why, why the fuck are you friends with this person? And they say, it's like family. It's like this weird. And the answer is, I don't know. And I don't think they know.
2 (18m 50s):
Yeah, right. Anyway, he was like family. I well, and you're right. What you said about when, when you know the context, I like, I have a few friends who, yeah, they, they have diagnosable personality disorders, but knowing this about them and loving them anyway, kind of gets me off the hook of like having to feel bad about it or having to feel worried about it. I mean, yeah. Those are not the people that you're necessarily going to go to with your, every intimacy. Right. But, but to just, just to like, know what brand of crazy you're dealing with can kind of make it because at the end of the day, you know, the only way, not, not that it was anybody's job to change the compulsive layer, but the only way that those people ever do eventually kind of see to a life full of more integrity is not by, I mean, sometimes I guess it's from people abandoning them, but mostly it's from people saying, you know, I love you.
2 (19m 47s):
And I know you're lying to me, you know, which is a hard thing for me, lying is like, is that if I'm, I don't think I've ever said before that I have a trigger, but that's, my trigger is lying. When somebody starts lying to me, I, I well up with such rage and I realize it's my own narcissism. Right? How dare you lie to me? I, you know, like as if it's something they're doing to me, instead of something that they're doing defensively for themselves in the same way that everything I do is defensively for myself. Like it's just a different brand of defense.
1 (20m 25s):
Yeah. It was wild
2 (20m 26s):
That, that recasts my own experiences with that person. Wow. Okay.
1 (20m 34s):
Yeah. And criminal, we've talked about this criminal things. So it's just, it's what it is for me was real reckoning with my own desire. Right. To be something that I am not like, I understand that in my bones. Okay. I guess, I guess like I practice before, like say, what would I say to this person? Cause I thought like if I was to try to quote, help this person, which I'm not going to try to do, but I'm just saying like, okay, well the urge is there to, to compat have compassion.
1 (21m 16s):
This is what I would say, oh, how I get it? This deep down in my bones need to be something I'm not something greater than I'm not than me. Something prettier, something thinner, something more attractive, something smarter, funnier, all the things I know that feeling. So what I grew up with that feeling it's been reinforced and I know it in my bones and I have tried every way I can think of to combat that. And nothing has worked except for the thing that I'm running the most away from, which is the truth.
2 (22m 5s):
Right.
1 (22m 5s):
It's such a fucking catch 22. It's like, so when I tell the truth, I'm so scared sometimes to tell it whether it's, I feel inadequate, I made a mistake. I, whatever it is, I'm feeling less than I feel you're mad at me. I feel all the things. If I don't say that, if I say anything, but the truth, the suffering I experience only gets multiplied.
2 (22m 36s):
And the person who is a compulsive liar in a way you could think about it like being a verbal tick, like if somebody had Tourette's, you know, and, and was an, every other thing they uttered was like an involuntary sound. That's almost how you could think about the compulsive liar. My, the problem that I have is I get into this thing of like, well, if I don't confront your lie, that I'm co-signing it. Which actually is not how it works. Right. I, I'm not in charge of what you say. You, you, you have lies spewing out of your mouth. I mean, that's, that's your problem.
1 (23m 8s):
Right. It's so interesting. And I think it, I think it, it, it, it, it just is. So it's just a fascinating part of human of human. What is it like pathology when stuff gets, and that's the way it manifests, because we just want to be so much sort of more safe and, and special. We want to be safe and special.
2 (23m 39s):
I think it would be like for a person who is so sick with the line, what do you, it would be like for them. I mean, what, I wonder if it's something as simple as like walking through. Okay. So what do you think is going to happen? If you tell the truth? People aren't going to like me. Okay. Well, has it ever occurred to you that people don't like you for not telling the truth? Right. Well, people aren't gonna like you. And then what, you know, because of course the thing is like, the problem is not that other people aren't gonna want you to promise that you don't like yourself. This is, this is my news. Like not pro, not profound, but profound to me, realization about life.
2 (24m 20s):
Is this just like really the whole thing is whether or not you love yourself. Yeah. Right. And when you're talking about relating to other people, loving other people, supporting other relationships, like pretty much RuPaul said it, if you can't love yourself, how the hell are you going to love somebody else? It's just what it is. It's like a fact, it's not even really an opinion. And, and, and I, I'm on a journey of figuring out how to love myself. And it's really scary. It's like, I have no idea how this is going to turn out. I don't know, from this. Right. But so far my furtive little steps are turning out great.
2 (25m 3s):
As an example, you know, I was talking to somebody about, I was talking to somebody that I'm in a, you know, that I have a closeness with about prob not even problems, but just, you know, areas of challenge and in the, in the relationship. And for the first time I didn't take this person who was telling me what they are struggling with with me. And I didn't take it personally. I took it like, oh, you're telling me what your struggle is. Okay. I get that. I didn't, I didn't have to take it on, like, as my own person, didn't have to make it about my own ego.
2 (25m 48s):
You know, getting feeling rejected. I could really see. And it, the only thing I can attribute it to is I have somewhat more of a better sense of myself, such that I'm not constantly looking to another person to tell me if I'm good or not. Today on the podcast, we are talking to Scott Torrance. Scott Torres is an actor. You may know him from a film that started many theater school graduates like Sean Gunn and Judy Greer and Lee curves, some called the specials.
2 (26m 33s):
He was also in six feet under and a film called Ray and Buffy. The vampire Slayer. Scott is currently living in his hometown of Tulsa, Oklahoma. He is running his very own hair salon and he is funny and charming and sweet and lovable. So please enjoy our conversation with Scott Torrance, Any race. Oh, okay. Good recording progress. Got it. All right. Scott Torrens. Congratulations. You survived theater school.
3 (27m 7s):
Thank you. By the grace of God,
2 (27m 10s):
Grace of God. No. Wait, did you guys graduate the same year? Right? Because you, Scott was in the class right below mine. And then
1 (27m 21s):
What year did you graduate? 98. Yeah. We were in the same, but listen, but listen, I was so far gone that I don't, I just couldn't even, cause I took a year off that I don't remember. Literally I remember nothing. So, so yeah, they were the same class.
3 (27m 39s):
Okay, awesome. Cause I was trying to rack my brain. I was like, I remember you. I remember you being a year ahead of me, both of you. And then, you know what, to be honest, if I was just gonna blame it on a whole lot of ecstasy that I did for four years, I blown out a lot of brain cells as I there's a lot of things to remember. And a lot of things that I did,
2 (28m 1s):
That's good into it because honestly that I think, I mean, I remember that that is what you were going through or getting into or whatever you want to call it. You were the first person I knew who was like really into rave culture, which I thought was so cool and dangerous and adventurous and exciting. Was that something you were involved in before you came to theater school?
3 (28m 26s):
A little bit. I am from Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I was this little gay boy raised by my mom and my aunt. And I knew from the time I knew, I knew once I knew what a big city was, I belonged in. You know, I knew that I never belonged here. And so I just started acting when I, my, my aunt Coco, my crazy aunt, Coco was an actress around town and community theater. And she took me to see Peter pan when I was six. And I fell in love with it because they flew.
3 (29m 7s):
And three years later at the same theater company held auditions. And I was like, I want to play Michael because I want to fly. And I practice and practice audition for it and got called back. And I got that part and the bug bit. And from that point on laser focused, and one of the things that I have, that's a blessing and a curse, I think is I have the ability to get laser focused on something and not stop until I get it. But I usually get laser focused on the wrong things. Be it the rave culture and the club, the club kids. I mean, it was fun, but I, should've probably been focused a little bit more on class.
1 (29m 48s):
Well, I have a question. I think that for me, I don't think there's, I mean, look, I'm not gonna de eh, say your experience. Wasn't valid because it sounds like it, but at least you had fun, right. While the rest of us were like slick. I mean, like tell us what that was like, how did you get into that culture? Because I remember being like, oh my God, these kids are so cool and they're having a fucking blast. Was it fun? First of all,
3 (30m 16s):
It was so much fun. It was too much fun, you know, and coming into the theater school, I knew I wasn't going to be, I knew I was going to be surrounded by people that were better than me. You know, we were all kind of like, I felt like the best of where we came from, you know? So I was prepared to not be the golden child. But what was interesting was I was very curious and I was, you know, dropped into Chicago from Tulsa, Oklahoma. And so I had no fear when I was 18. I mean, I feared the professors, but not Chicago nightlife. And so I just, I went to pro bar one night by myself. I took a class, I waited in line, freezing my ass off for like an hour.
3 (31m 1s):
And then I saw these magical people, like just walk through with these huge platform shoes and this crazy makeup. And I was like, oh my God, I want to beat them. And finally got in and like bought my way to the back of the club where all of these fantastic people were. And I had the nerve to just ask one of them. I'm like, where'd she get those shoes? And I'm like, oh, I have a maid. I was like, where, okay. I like a cobbler or something like that. So I got my dad's combat boots that he gave me. Cause he really wanted me to be a tough guy. And I said, I'll keep these boots. And I took them in and I got six inches of like platform attached, dressed up in these, like these like striped overalls.
3 (31m 49s):
And I had this like matching hat and I wore those shoes and I walked up to the club the next time. And they were like, right, this way you don't have to pay. Like, and from that point on, I felt like I felt famous.
2 (32m 4s):
Never occurred to me until just now that raves or theater. I don't know why that current, till, till you just said it, you made your entrance and with your correct costume on, and then you got the part. Yeah.
1 (32m 18s):
Great. And you were also famous. Yeah. I mean, I think that's the other thing that I've learned from talking to people like you and another guest ed we had on kind of talked about this, that like that and watching documentaries that the club kid thing was a tr a mix of like fashion show meets theater meets like calendula, like D like, so what debauchery, but it's, it's a theater. It was like theater of it meets the fashion shows. It was fantastic.
3 (32m 51s):
I agree. And I also on the, on the touching on the famous part, feeling famous, not having to pay $20 at the time, which was pretty hardcore. I thought to get into anywhere. I was like hobnobbing with like a Dennis Rodman in the VIP lounge was totally, he was totally hot now. He's not anymore. Billy Corgan. I mean, I was hanging with these like stars. So I felt famous. I remember talking to Billy Gorgon. I was as tall as he was, because it was six inches on this five, seven foot body we were face to face and he like, where'd you get those shoes? They're pretty cool. And I'm like, oh my God, I love you so much.
3 (33m 33s):
Like, it was just, it was magical. But I was also like, I was so wrapped up that it got me into some like, kinda like bad situations. And do you mean like dangerous situations? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Okay. So did you guys remember the seven minute rule? Like if you were late seven minutes, the door would close and then if the door closed three times you were completely kicked out of school. It didn't matter if it was like last semester, senior year, three times you're out. And from what I remember, our credits wouldn't transfer.
3 (34m 14s):
So they put the fear of God in us to like, make it on time, which I agree with. Like, I think, you know, time is money. I've never really had a problem with being prompt, but there was one night that, okay. So I had bill Burnett for voice and speech. I think it was our second year. And I just could not with him. I would just say
1 (34m 40s):
I got in a fight with him in class where I stormed out, because he's told me I had, I was a chicken necking and that I did this too much. And then I looked like a chicken and I couldn't take it because, and I just stormed out that motherfucker. I never liked him. Well,
3 (34m 55s):
He just put me to sleep and granted, I probably wasn't on any sleep, you know, going into that class. But I risk, I risked it, that biscuit and I just skipped twice. I was like, I can't, I can't, but I won't miss the third time. Now this is kind of a dark sword, but I went to so Tuesdays and Wednesdays in Chicago where like the nights that like weren't ethic and back then, and I remember just going to this gay bar and boys town just to have some drinks. And I remember all of a sudden waking up in the emergency room with restraints on my arms and legs and a catheter.
3 (35m 37s):
And I was like, I had no idea how he got there. I was like, what happened? And finally the doctors came in and said, you know, you were fighting us. We were trying to have, and I, I don't remember. I don't, I'm total blackout. And you guys, I've never laid a singer on anyone in my life, but they said it was a possible GHB overdose or roofie overdose. So someone bought me a drink the one night that I just went out to just have like a couple of drinks, not like eat a bunch of eggs to see, and like, you know, dance still done anyway that morning. If I hadn't gotten out of that and gotten to build Burnett's class, I would have been kicked out.
3 (36m 22s):
So after they removed the catheter, sorry, this is Jolene. It was, it was very, very painful. And they took the restraints off. I was like, I have to get to Bill's class or I'm going to get kicked out. And I gained my Ivy out of my arm. I like dress as fast as I could. I ran. Cause I feel like it was really close to the theater school that ER, I ran to his class and I got in there in time. I was mortified, but I was like, I can't miss this class. Like I can't or I'll be kicked out. So yeah. Does
2 (36m 59s):
That mean you don't know what happens to you that night?
3 (37m 2s):
I don't. I, I don't think because the guy that I went with supposedly like just like dropped me off. But anyway, I don't believe that anything happened to me. I think that I was trying to fight maybe because I was like in a blackout that I felt like people were like trying to undo my clothing, but it was probably like the nurses and the doctors and stuff, you know?
2 (37m 30s):
Right. Oh my
3 (37m 31s):
Dad, it was nuts. And I think about it now and I'm like, oh my God, that really was fucked up. But you know what? I made it to Bill's class. And I been,
2 (37m 40s):
How old were you? Eight? Was that our second year? So 19
3 (37m 44s):
Funnier, 1920.
2 (37m 47s):
Oh my God. Well, I'm really sorry that happened to you. I'm really glad that nothing, nothing terrible happened to you. But I wanted to jump just back to the thing that you said in the beginning about feeling famous, because that is what my, I wouldn't have occurred to me until you said it, but that is my impression of you like that. You not in a jerky way, but that you were, it seems, you seem very self-possessed to me. Well, and for sure you had a life outside of school, which many of us didn't, so that was sort of like intriguing, but overall it does seem like you have a lot of grit as a person.
2 (38m 28s):
Would you say that's true?
3 (38m 30s):
I definitely did. Back then. I had kind of had no fee, well, I had all the fear in the theater, but, but yeah, there was, I don't know. I, you know, I think it's that like invincibility thing when you're younger, you know, the older you get, the more, or for me, the older I get, the more I'm I cherish, you know, I, I think about what I have. Like, I don't just, I don't ride brides on rollercoasters anymore. Like the last time, I mean, I went to Hawaii a few years ago with my family and my mom, like I kept being told, like take the helicopter tour is magical. It's it is a religious religious experience. I was like, so looking forward to, well, my mom booked for whatever reason, book the helicopter with the doors off you guys, it was like an hour long panic attack.
3 (39m 17s):
Like my nails dug it into my mom was like, I was like, make it stop. This is horrible. And then when it was over, I was like, when did I become a web? Like when did I? But I think it comes with age, right.
2 (39m 28s):
It totally does. I was just talking to somebody about this the other day. Oh, it was about skiing. I was talking about, about skiing. I'm saying like, I just can't ring this bell of knowing people die from skiing, like from kind of minor, sort of you make one false move and you're just dead. And just seems like not a, not a way to, it's not worth it in terms of a way to go. If you're going to take a danger, take a risk, it should be like really, really worth it. But you, so is it right to say that the thing you sort of regret or feel badly about with the partying and school, is that you, that you might've almost gotten kicked out or did you, was it, was there more to it than that?
3 (40m 16s):
I don't think I regret it. I mean, I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but like I had to be somewhat talented to like roll into like Shakespeare class, no pun intended roll into Shakespeare class and do some Shakespearians on it after coming straight from after hours, like on no sleep, like, I don't know how I did it, but somehow I did it and I also came out, you know, alive that God, I had a girl in my class that something really horrible happened to. And I don't know if we, I don't know if we can bleak names.
3 (40m 57s):
Do you guys remember like names, like, remember who I'm talking to? So that could have happened to me. You know what I mean? Like I put myself not to say that she did anything wrong at all, but you know, that could've happened to me, you know? And
2 (41m 13s):
For the grace of God
3 (41m 14s):
There, before the grace of God out,
1 (41m 16s):
Did you make, were there a bunch of kids at, in our class, in our school that, that you went with? I remember some, but like, did you, or did you have two totally separate groups of friends?
3 (41m 28s):
So starting out, I remember listening to Noel's podcasts with guys and I heard her say I was sitting around at a friend's place and I'm like, let's go to a club. But I think she was talking about me because Noel was hot and I is beautiful. She's gorgeous. And I was like, well, that'll help me get into this club. And we were friends, you know? And so she was like happy, like hanging out in the VIP room. Whereas I was ex to see did something to my body. It made me dance all night long without stopping. And so I started dropping all this baby weight. And so there was another part of it, which was body image.
3 (42m 9s):
You know, I was as chunky monkey my whole life. And then I just started dropping weight, like crazy because I was dancing literally all night long.
1 (42m 19s):
Yeah. You literally were doing cardio for 12 hours at a time, right?
3 (42m 24s):
Yeah. Well, yes, yes, totally. I could ring my jeans out, my big old raver jeans that I got in a lot of trouble out of theater school for wearing. Cause they said that, you know, we can't see your full movement. I could ring those with. So, I mean, it was, it was like hot yoga for 12 hours, but like, or Zumba.
1 (42m 45s):
So what, w w why and when, and how did the party at,
3 (42m 50s):
So not till later on? Not till, honestly, not till after, so, okay. So I never felt like the golden child at the theater school. I don't know if any of us said, although listening to these podcasts, like some of the people that I thought were golden, they didn't, they didn't, you know, we all have this similar experience where it's like, oh, you were scared too. Oh, wow. I had no like, Hey, you guys are scared. I thought everybody loved them. Yale. The, the only real feedback like that I had that was positive from any teachers were John Jenkins and Jane Jane alderman.
3 (43m 36s):
And I know that's not, I haven't heard a lot of that on this podcast, but, and I almost had kind of like imposter syndrome in her class because I was like, well, she hasn't seen my work all four years. So like I, and I felt like that was kind of competitive, like pretty competitive, but grade.
1 (43m 56s):
It was very weird, very
3 (43m 58s):
Weird. Especially the girls. Like I didn't get, you know, like I didn't get a lot of, I don't, I didn't feel the same heat from the guys as I did from some of the girls. But anyway, so I had a really amazing, it's weird. Like I had the most amazing showcase experience ever. I think I was blown away. I couldn't believe it.
1 (44m 25s):
This is a great story because I'm obsessed with showcase stories and they've all been horrific. It pretty. So can you tell us your experience? I'm so excited.
3 (44m 35s):
I would love to. Okay. So I was like freaking out about a monologue. Didn't know what to do, but Jane, you know, Jane was just, she was just kind of, you know, she didn't favor me. I didn't believe she was just kind. And she was like, just ask Zack helm to write your monologue. So I reached out to Zach who I'd never, I mean, we weren't really friends. I mean, I knew who he was, but I got his number. I called him and he said, okay, I want you to make me a mix tape and send it to me. And I'm like, okay. He's like, don't think about it. Just make me a mix tape, send it to me. And so I did, and he wrote me this monologue and it wasn't, I think this is important for actors that are about to graduate.
3 (45m 24s):
It wasn't a character. It wasn't, I wasn't playing anybody else. It was me ranting on stage. I walked out and I just was going off about what really pisses me off in the world. And, and so I lucked out with that Chicago showcase. I was one of those, I walked off stage and I was like, I have no idea what that was. You know, that was an out-of-body experience. I don't know if that went well, then we go to LA and it was like, all the stars aligned you guys. Like, I cannot even tell you, I got out there. I like started into this laughter started happening. And I was like, okay, I've got these people in my pocket.
3 (46m 6s):
So I just go on and on and rant and rave. And I got a fucking standing ovation shut. I'm not kidding you. I could not believe it. I was like, is this real? This can't be real. Like it did that. Did I imagine that? And then I remember afterwards,
1 (46m 21s):
Oh my God, this is the greatest thing I've ever heard.
3 (46m 25s):
It was one of the best moments of my entire life. Rick Murphy walks up to me and he's like, well, someone did well this evening. And I was like, oh my God. And then Jane called me into her hotel room and she sat me down and she goes, okay, look, listen, I want you to know that you have more interest than Judy Leonard or Mike Moody combined. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? She's like, no. So I need you to go home and get some, or go to your hotel room, go night night, because you are booked like this entire time. So I don't know what everybody else did. But I took meeting after meeting, after meeting, after meeting, then one of the
1 (47m 7s):
Interrupt, can I interrupt you? Because I just have a question. What was that I have where you like, my whole life is about to ch like I am now a star. Cause I would be like, Hey mom, I'm never coming home. Like I'm now fucking a star.
3 (47m 22s):
I couldn't, I couldn't believe it. I honestly felt like I was dreaming the whole time. I was like, oh, just my dreams are coming true. And I of all people me, like, because I just felt really not, I don't know. I just, I was never, I felt like I was never really liked by most teachers, you know? And I don't think they knew what to do with me casting what? I didn't, I couldn't picture me in a lot of things. Like I couldn't see a clear picture of where I belonged in the business.
1 (47m 50s):
It's so interesting. I think you hit LA and LA hit you at a time where you said the stars aligned, but they were looking for something and that something was you like, that is the clear thing of like perfect match and perfect time for that. Anyway. It's just so it's such, I'm so intrigued. Keep going, keep going.
3 (48m 14s):
No, I agree with you. So then I, then every, so I think people were there for two days. Maybe I didn't see anybody. Cause I was just, it was one meeting after the other. And then I was told I needed to stay a day later because there was this audition for this movie called rave. And I was like, okay. So everybody else flew back to Chicago. And I had to stay in the hotel room by myself and I got the sides to the script and I was like, oh my God, I'm going to audition for a movie in Hollywood tomorrow. And by the way, all the meetings that I took, they were like, go back to Chicago, get your sad card and then move out here. That was like, basically what everyone said, go back to Chicago, get your sad card, move back here.
3 (48m 59s):
So I go to this audition by myself. First of all, it's hard as fuck to find a cab in LA coming from Chicago. I was like, how the hell am I going to get there? But I figured it out. I went, I auditioned for it. I didn't really know how I did flew back to Chicago. And then I found out that I booked, I booked it and I was like, wow,
1 (49m 22s):
Are you fucking kidding?
3 (49m 26s):
Not totally true. And I wasn't sag. And so they did something called a Taft-Hartley, which I don't know. I think that I should probably look that up, but it's like waves of magic wand and now you're. Yeah. So I graduated and then two weeks later flew to Los Angeles. I moved in with so Zack helm, Kate McKinnon, Kat Phillips, Ellen, Mel's Jeff you'll Terman. We're all living in this huge house in Korea town. And they're like, we would love to have you as a roommate. And I'm like, that's great because I have no idea where the hell I'm going or what I'm doing.
3 (50m 9s):
I flew in $5 to my name. Oh, in saffron. Don't let me forget. Saffron also lived at that house, went to sleep, woke up and I think it was Kate or Zach that drove me to set the first day. Cause mean, I didn't know directions. I didn't have a car. And I started shooting this movie and it was just totally unbelievable.
1 (50m 31s):
I have to just say this whole thing is unbelievable, but like, can I ask you, like when you're sitting in these meetings, because you were like, what, how old were
3 (50m 39s):
You? I was 21.
1 (50m 42s):
So you're sitting in these meetings with people. Were you able to like, do you think here's what I'm making up? Okay. And I could be wrong. Like all your stuff with like the club scene where you have to pretend and dress up and like you, and you're already famous, kind of, do you think that helped prepare you for these meetings in terms of feeling like you deserved to be there?
3 (51m 4s):
I don't know if, no, but you know what it did teach me like hanging out with all those club kids. When I got the, the sides to that movie, I was like, I know this guy. I argued with this guy. I mean, I, it just felt like I could totally do this. And there weren't a lot of parts. I did bomb and Gilliad with John Jenkins, my second year as an intro where I got to wear my stacks in that, in that thing. And I got to be this like over the top, flaming, like hooker boy, not to say that, you know, but I, I had something to base that off of, you know what I mean?
3 (51m 45s):
So that was really fun. Rave kind of just like fell. Right? I mean, it was, again, it was luck. It was like winning the lottery stars aligned. I party with this character before, so I know how to play him. And, but, but they a lot. So the agency that I liked the most, they still wouldn't sign me. They were like, this doesn't happen. So, but we still like use, so we're going to hit pocket you and we're going to send you out on auditions. And I was like, okay. And they're like, and get ready to not work. And I was like, okay. And I didn't feel entitled. I mean, I felt like I was just lucky, like right place, right.
3 (52m 26s):
Time stars aligned. And they started sending me out on auditions. And then I remember going to an audition that they said, you know what go, you just need to go meet this casting director because she just want to award for buggy nights. And I was like, cool. Okay. And I went in and Sean Gunn was in the room and his brother was in the room. And I, it was like a two liner for this movie called the specials and Judy was in it and, and Sean was in it. And so I walk in and I do the two lines. They're like, did you Goodman? And I said, yes, I shared it. And they're like, thanks. And then I get a phone call for me. You booked it, come in and sign the papers.
3 (53m 8s):
Like you're signed, let's do this. And I was like, yes. So that paid off because connections. Right. Like knowing people, right? Like the theater school was a connection for me in that room. Little did I know then? But the gum brothers, how like amazing. Right. But, but
1 (53m 25s):
Yeah, you, you hit the ground clearly running like clearly. So you just, could, we never talked to anybody that literally has had this experience where you, your showcase went so well, that you basically just stayed, you, you, you, you moved to LA and you had an agent and everything, but I want to say, how was it shooting the rave movie? Just not knowing how to make movies? Like how did you do that?
3 (53m 56s):
Well, I learned very quickly that you know, the camera's right in your face. So I got, you know, I first day they were like tone it way down, dude. Like, camera's right here, you know, don't act for the back of the house. And I also was getting cues from my fellow actors. We were, I think the first scene, we were all like laying in bed after like this raid goes terribly wrong. And one of our friends Odis, and we're talking about like, is she going to be okay? And I'm like, she'll be fine. And they'll know like, listen, and the other two actors were like whispering and, and we were whispering in bed. I was like, oh right. Yeah, the camera is like right here.
3 (54m 38s):
Okay. I got, I got clocked by a couple of directors for just being too big. I did an episode about the, the vampire Slayer. And I, I was this half, this kid that blows himself up with a bomb and he's half zombie, half burned victim and comes back to wreak havoc on the high school. And I, all this makeup, it took like four hours to get into this makeup. And I would practice in my trailer and I'm like, and I did these nervous ticks and stuff for this job. I mean, I got called in like five times for this part, which was just like one episode. But I had, it was this nerdy guy with these ticks. So I was like, you can't really see what I'm doing in this makeup again.
3 (55m 18s):
I was just told you, bring it down, like stop being so extra. Like, we'll see you. And I'm like, got it. Okay. Gotcha. But yeah. Well, Scott,
2 (55m 29s):
At the risk of sounding like a terrible television movie, and then what happen because you got all this, what happens?
3 (55m 38s):
So the thing is I got really close to a lot of pilots. I would go in tests for network and it would always need it to me. And one other person, another person, and every single time it didn't work out. I would cry. Like I would, I would be devastated. And then, then I would go to work with like the swollen red face. Like I get red and splotchy anyway, I would get red and slushy walking into auditions that was before I knew anything about beta blockers, but Hey guys, if you're out there auditioning and you turn red as a beet, if you feel any sort of beta blockers can be a big help, but I was tired of crying. I was tired of having my heart broken.
3 (56m 18s):
I mean, and I feel like Larry Bates said on this podcast, confidence is everything. And I can, I cannot agree more when I would book a job, then I would be confident and that would lead to three more jobs. And then I wouldn't, and I wouldn't work for a year or more, you know, and then I would get so close. So close every single time. Nope. Nope. And my I'm S I'm a sensitive guy. Like I think I was like born with like an extra like dose of emotions and I was just tired of crying and having my heart broken. And I had had my, my laser focused on being a movie star from the time I was nine years, six years old, honestly.
3 (57m 2s):
And there was no plan B. It's so funny when my mom dropped me off at DePaul, she was like, you know, you could go to beat beauty school and like, learn how to do that. So you can cut hair in the dorms to make money. I'm like, there's no plan B. Like I'm going to be a movie star. That's all there is to it. Well, that's what I do now. I own my own hair salon. So she, you know, but it all worked out the way it was supposed to, but basically I stopped because I was like, is there anything else in this world that will make me happy because I am miserable right now. I'm tired of crying every day. You know, you're selling yourself, they're telling you, you know, there's only so much rejection that I could take at that time.
3 (57m 45s):
So
1 (57m 46s):
Where you, where you still did you feel like you had a community out here in LA or no? Like, did you, or, and also where did the raving continue in LA? Yeah.
3 (57m 56s):
Prior to that? Yeah. So I was also suffering from like, I don't know if this is stage fright or a mixture of stage fright and drugs, but anytime I would get, you know, like I would go out for something that I got really excited for. I remember they were casting this gate character on Dawson's Creek. And I was like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. I couldn't remember the lines you guys. And it was, it wasn't, you know, pages and pages, but I just, I was psyching myself out. I did better at auditions on things that I didn't know really a whole lot about. But yeah, I, so I, I think it was a mixture of partying and also just kind of like being set up and I couldn't remember the lines and there's nothing more humiliating than, you know, that's like the bait, you know, you guys know when they're like, listen, remember those lanes,
1 (58m 53s):
I have the same thing. And so I was diagnosed. It's like, my therapist literally thinks that what happens is that it is, it's obviously anxiety, but it's also, there is some kind of shame, fear of shame that happens that becomes so large shame of not remembering shame of not doing well enough. This is for me. I don't know if this resonates with you, but like, and she was like, it is. And then the brain literally shuts down and, and goes into, I will protect you at all costs, which means all of my resources have to go into like, basically keeping you in your body and who gives a shit about copy written by some dude in a room like you now are in survival mode.
1 (59m 43s):
So that's, it's panic, it's, it's panic and it's fear of humiliation and it it's real. And it, and it has really debilitated me as an actor and I'm still working through it.
3 (59m 56s):
Yeah. Can I just tell you both, I'm so obsessed with you, both, like, are you, did you both become therapists at some point? Because this, I, I, I, I so wanted to, I'm a huge, huge fan of therapy, huge and endorsed it, love it will go for the rest of my life. And there's a part of me that wishes, gosh, you know, if there weren't so much school and if I wasn't 46, like I would love because it's fascinating to me. And I think you're absolutely right, Jen. I think that, you know, it was like, I remember, okay, there's really, really bad, bad show on MTV TV.
3 (1h 0m 37s):
It was called undressed. And it was this really bad soap opera. And I, and it was really bad acting. But then when I got on, on set, I was like, oh, it's really bad acting because they're giving everybody line readings. Like, they're telling you to say it just like this <em></em> and I forgot my lines. I kept forgetting my lines. They were getting so frustrated with me. And I was like, I didn't know that I could never ask questions. Like, I was always scared to ask for what I wanted. Like I just was like, I don't know, just, oh, sorry. I'm bouncing all over the place. But Christine Goodman said something so amazing. And in her podcast about how the whole MFA's, they looked at it as like, I'm paying you to learn that blew my mind.
3 (1h 1m 26s):
Like if I went in with that, just, just with a notion of that, like, oh my God, I, I taught, I mean, she just, I love her so much, but I wish that I had thought that a little bit more. And I mean, that's not the case when you're working on set, but you know, in Hollywood they're paying you to do a job, but like what Lee paid those, those professors to teach us. And I feel like some of the things that I don't know, th their behavior, I think sometimes we wouldn't fly today. I'll tell you that
1 (1h 1m 57s):
Right now. Well, no, it wouldn't.
2 (1h 2m 0s):
Well, you probably know boss and I are kind of big into this idea that like, when success doesn't happen to people or it doesn't happen in the timeline that they want or whatever, it's often for the best, because you know, like I've said to her, if she hadn't made all of these terrible choices, basically turning down opportunities that were coming her way left and right. She might have found herself fit successful and not able to handle and kind of blow it up. And like, you know, I mean, I'm using her your words positive. They use I'm like, I probably would have ended up dead.
2 (1h 2m 40s):
Oh, I would have been dead. Yeah. So Scott, do you think that that's kind of, there were some, yeah, that's what I thought. That's what I thought
3 (1h 2m 50s):
I would've pulled a Lindsey Lohan. I would've, I would've ended up dumpster. Yeah, no. I mean, so I, I truly believe that, like, I, I I'm so happy that I did it, you know, I it's, I don't, I think you'll only regret the things you don't try, the things you don't do, but then there's also this part of me, I'm not gonna lie that, you know, the love never goes away that I, I don't wanna say it's an empty hole that, you know, I do hear now, it's very creative. I own my own salon. It's just me and my clients. And, you know, we all, I think everybody puts on their work face or, you know, whatever, but it's nice to be able to be adaptable and, and entertain while you're doing, you know, whatever.
3 (1h 3m 38s):
But you guys have been such an inspiration. This podcast has been such an inspiration for me because you guys got my creative juices flowing. That, that part that I have, not that hasn't been full in 24 years, you know, like I'm, I am like, I'm like, I'm going to do a podcast. I, you guys
2 (1h 3m 58s):
Do it, do it.
1 (1h 4m 1s):
We're doing a documentary. Or we're planning to do a documentary on the theater school times. And you will be in that documentary. So
2 (1h 4m 11s):
Road trip, road, trip to Tulsa, you're in Tulsa, right?
3 (1h 4m 15s):
Buckle on the Bible belt.
2 (1h 4m 16s):
Okay. Now, yeah. That's what I was going to ask you about. Like, what's it like to live in Oklahoma when you're not the most traditional person?
3 (1h 4m 24s):
Right. So, I mean, if you told me, you know, you're going to move back to Tulsa one day and you're going to find your husband and you're going to be content. I would have been like, you're smoking crack. Like there's no way in hell. You couldn't pay me enough money. What, what, what, what person, what, what, what any sort of minority, why would you choose to live in this horrible red state? Right. But, you know, I really lucked out there's good people and bad people, wherever you go. And the pandemic, I actually had a silver lining with the pandemic. I was working at a competitive salon, kind of like the theater school.
3 (1h 5m 5s):
I don't know why I'm drawn to those kinds of things, but pandemic happened. And I have, my mom has a heart patient. She had triple bypass at 42. So she's immune compromised. My husband is immune compromised. And then there's me that just tends to catch every cold that's out there. And I was trying to rack my brain during lockdown. Like, how do I do my job? Six feet away from someone like, I have to be like, I have to touch you. Like I have to cut your bangs and basically in your mouth, what I'm kind of like, how am I going to do this? And I, I, I took this, this pandemic very seriously because I, I have so many loved ones that it wouldn't be good if they got it.
3 (1h 5m 48s):
So I just decided to take a chance and open my own salon where it's, COVID, it's basically, COVID free and people have to be like fully vaccinated and show me their card. And I have air purifiers. We wear masks. It's just a single room with me and my client one at a time. And what's so wild is I thought I was going to shoot myself in the foot. When I said, you have to be vaccinated or else I can't take you, but there are all these unicorns, all over Tulsa, Oklahoma, they come to me and honestly, business is booming. It's never been better. And it's wonderful because it's just me and it's, it's very private.
3 (1h 6m 29s):
We don't have to worry about, we can talk politics as loud as we want, because there's nobody sitting next to us. Like, you know, looking at us up and down or telling us we're wrong. Or so there are good people here and they're all my clients.
2 (1h 6m 45s):
And by establishing those boundaries, you created the unicorn club where everybody can, is drawn to you because you've established from the outset, what your thing is. And that makes people understand what is, and isn't tolerated by you. And then that makes, that draws all the right people to you.
3 (1h 7m 3s):
And I will say, I will tell you, I don't think I'll ever work for anyone ever again. Like, I don't think I'll ever have a boss ever again. I mean, I I'll work with someone at least in the hair world, but oh my God. Being your own boss, you guys is the best. I highly recommend it.
1 (1h 7m 21s):
So, Scott, how did you end up? So what was the transition like leaving LA? Like, did you, did you go out in a fi like me in a fiery blaze of driving drunk into a swimming pool? Or like, did you,
3 (1h 7m 34s):
I, you know, again, like, I'm very lucky that I, I moved to New York. So when I quit, I was so I decided, I was like, okay, I'm done with, with acting for a while. I'm going to take some time off. And then I was like, well, why am I living in Hollywood? I've always wanted to live in New York. So I moved to New York partied and worked retail for four years. It was kind of tired of being like a broke college student. And I'm like, well, let's go back to LA where at least it's a little bit easier. And the weather's nice. And I went back to LA this whole time, by the way, never sucked partying. Right. And I got to the point where I was like, you know, I don't think that I can be here. It's too triggering for me to go out and dance.
3 (1h 8m 15s):
And it graduated from ecstasy to speed. And I was a functioning addict, but I was like the only way I'm going to be able to not get fired from work. And I, I really just wanted like two months to sleep, to catch up. So I went to rehab, which was one of the best things I ever did. And I learned that I am a drug addict, but I'm not an alcoholic because drinking was never my thing. It's still really kind of, not my thing through lockdown. I will say. I mean, I was guilty of maybe pouring a martini at like 10:00 AM, because I felt like we were all living in Vegas and nobody had any idea what day or time it was.
3 (1h 8m 58s):
But, but yeah, no, so I can socially drink and that's fine. But I just was like, I'm going to die if I stay here. And my mom got divorced from my stepdad and I wanted to come back to Tulsa to check on her. It was, I was like three months. That's it? And then it was weird. Like growing up here, there was nothing happening. And coming back here, I think I changed, but also to also change a little bit for the better. So like the best nightclubs, like the best shopping. No, not here, but that's not the most important to me. And like the traffic's not bad here. The cost of living is real cute here. And I met my husband here on grinder, by the way, Gina,
2 (1h 9m 44s):
I love that. That's beautiful. I mean, you guys, what would it take? I'm just thinking about your experience there. Like they built you all the way up the first day you got to LA it couldn't go any higher than that. You got to stay an extra day. You gotta to your meeting after meeting. Well, you know, P people like me and boss are like going to the beach and whatever is she wasting her time in LA because we were getting any minis. So everybody loved, you got a standing ovation, you got Rick Murphy to say you did great. And then it was a process after, you know, some sex successes of getting jobs. Then it was a process of like tearing you down. When if there could have been a way for you to tolerate or survive the rejection, you might've stayed and had like a sane career.
2 (1h 10m 33s):
I think that's the problem is like, there's no sane career. It seems like, and you like either go balls to the wall and, and burn, you know, crash and burn, right? Like, so what would it take to have an environment that was even just 10% more psychologically minded? I mean, I'm interested to pause to what you have to say about that.
1 (1h 10m 58s):
Well, I think it would take each so interesting. It's such a business for me anyway, that thrives on youth. Right? And, and, and when we're young, our brains aren't fully formed. So you've got weird ass people running around doing weird ass shit and their brains aren't formed. So I think it would have to, for me with literally have to take us embracing the knowledge and wherewithal of people as they get older and not so much capitalizing on youth because you don't know shit and we can't know anything. So when you're youth centric industry, it's, it's a mess.
1 (1h 11m 39s):
So what, what, what I would say is like D what would it, what it's going to take is people to say, oh, wait, people of all ages of all races of all can have careers. And I think then it becomes less of a, like, I have to capitalize on what is hot right now, right now, because later is not going to be so hot. It would take a more holistic view of like the human experience. And I there's so much money involved. I'm not sure. And I think coming back at 46 and doing this, and I'm not really trying to be an actor, but as a writer, I'm seeing that, like, you kind of have to go away from like 25 to 40 and come back to LA, if you're going to do it,
2 (1h 12m 22s):
Dude, that I just had this image, like it's, it's LA has kind of run like, like porn. Like, it's all about, like, what's going to get you off, like in five seconds, instead of anything beyond what's going to happen in five seconds. And there's a, there's like a short term memory problem. There's a 'cause I think you described by the way about being the, you know, the thing of the moment, whatever Sean said, the same thing Shawn said, I think that I was able to do what I was able to do, because I just had a particular look at a particular time when they were just looking for my look, you know?
2 (1h 13m 2s):
And that's important for, to, to say again to people out there, like, if you don't succeed, you can't necessarily say it's because of your talent. It really could be like, it's just not the, it's just not your moment. Your Hollywood is not having the you moment right now. It might have had it 10 years ago. It might have it in 10 years. It's just not right now.
3 (1h 13m 26s):
Amen to that. I, I fully agree with you on that. And, and what I love now is that, you know, everyone's writing, it's like, I remember my agency said, you know, you're just not like anybody else. So we're just going to send you out on the everything and which I was that's cool. But like, I would get sent out for like football players. And I was like, Hmm, I don't seem I'll, I'll go. Cause you're telling me to, but I, and I was too scared to say, I don't, you know, I really don't see myself doing this, but yeah, I, I love now how, you know, and, and back in the day, like, I feel like the only thing, like gain gay characters and not that I wanted to always play gay characters, but I have this voice.
3 (1h 14m 9s):
Okay. I came out. I mean, you can, at pictures of me when I'm three years old, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know, you know, that I am a gay man. And so I just, I, I love now that people are of all, I, I don't know, ethnicities are every like will and grace was the only thing that I saw. You know what I mean? So I love, I love that, that now there's so much representation. I think that's wonderful. And I, I love that. And I'm still like, if you want it right at yourself, you know, like what you guys are doing, kind of, right. Yeah.
1 (1h 14m 49s):
I would venture to say that Scott, don't be, I don't think you're done with acting yet. I have this really strange that you're going to, is there, is there any work in Oklahoma, like film and TV wise?
3 (1h 15m 6s):
I, so people ask me all the time when they find out that I had this other life, other career, why don't we do it anymore? And I'm like, you know, I just feel like theater wise, the theater school sort of ruined me as far as like watching community theater, because I cannot turn off that I can't turn off that, that, that critical, you know, that we got taught for four years. Well, I didn't see the weather. I didn't, you know, I didn't see, you know, where they were coming from. Like that the, my aunt is still, she still direct. Like she directs Christmas Carol every year here in Tulsa.
3 (1h 15m 46s):
And she asked me to come to final dress and she was interested in, in my notes. And I was like, okay. And after the first act ended, I opened up my big squirrel and she's like, okay. And I'm like, okay. So first of all, British accents, like, let's just get, let's just get rid of them. Because half the people sound like they are challenged. And she's like, you know, I don't want to hear any more. I don't want to hear any more. I'm like, and you know, they're doing it. They're not professionals that I did it up until I went to DePaul. I mean, they're doing it because they love it. They're doing it because it's fun. But that critical note-taking eye is hard for me to shed that I learned.
3 (1h 16m 27s):
Yeah.
1 (1h 16m 28s):
Yeah. Film and TV
3 (1h 16m 30s):
There. Supposedly. Yes. Supposedly. I mean, they filmed the movie here with Leonardo DiCaprio. It's a Martin Scorsese movie. I'm going blank on the name. It's about don't look up.
1 (1h 16m 43s):
Oh, no, that wasn't Martin's per se.
3 (1h 16m 46s):
Did it already come out? No, not yet. No. It's it's about native native American. I really, I can't remember. I'm going blank right now, but yeah, things do happen here, here and there. And I keep being told by my aunt that there's like a new casting director. That's coming to Tulsa and Tulsa is going to be this new, that dah, dah, dah. And I'm like, maybe I love your podcast. I love you too. You too have like, just nailed it. I mean, I live for this thing. I would love to at least do not, not least I would love to do a podcast. I would love to like salon confessional or, you know, hair happy.
3 (1h 17m 29s):
Like people open up to me so much
1 (1h 17m 32s):
Therapy is perfect.
2 (1h 17m 33s):
That's amazing. And we can produce it on our, this is, you know, we have had in mind for a long time that we would have other podcasts under this umbrella. Seriously, let's talk, let's talk about it because did you come up with that? That's amazing,
1 (1h 17m 49s):
Dude. We got to do it. We'll help you. We'll help you.
3 (1h 17m 53s):
I need your help. You, you ladies are brilliant. And I would love that. That would be, that would be filling the hole that I, you know, it's been,
2 (1h 18m 1s):
It's done. It's done. You're going to do it. It's done. I think you'd be fantastic on a podcast. Yeah.
1 (1h 18m 10s):
I was going to say also like, until that happens, like we could also have you, you know, we have the, let me run this by you segment with just us. So we could have you as our like third, once in a while, let, let us run. And you could talk about like the hair puppy on our podcast. Like
3 (1h 18m 25s):
You don't, you can't see me right now, but I'm doing a literal toe touch right now. Okay. Well now
1 (1h 18m 33s):
I'm like, shit, you better really get, get on the pole what's going on. But yeah, no. Yeah. So we'll talk. We'll talk. But I mean, cause, cause this has been, I mean, L like hearing how we, for me, I wanted to participate in this podcast so that people could know what it takes to survive a hard thing and know they could, that's like how I wanted the stories. That's how it started. And now what has become for me is leaving a legacy for people to see that there is not one way to be successful. That success is a very, a very multilayered thing.
1 (1h 19m 13s):
And that sometimes things happen for a reason and sometimes they don't. But yet here we are.
4 (1h 19m 33s):
If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable Inc production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina <em></em> are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited, and sound mixed by Gina <em></em> for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.