WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

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I'm Travis Bader,
and this is The

00:00:10.500 --> 00:00:11.670
Silvercore Podcast.

00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:15.150
Join me as I discuss
matters related to

00:00:15.150 --> 00:00:17.700
hunting, fishing, and
outdoor pursuits with the

00:00:17.700 --> 00:00:20.100
people in businesses that
comprise the community.

00:00:20.910 --> 00:00:22.770
If you're a new to
Silvercore, be sure to

00:00:22.770 --> 00:00:27.180
check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca we can

00:00:27.180 --> 00:00:29.730
learn more about courses,
services and products

00:00:29.730 --> 00:00:31.830
that we offer as well
as how you can join The

00:00:31.830 --> 00:00:34.140
Silvercore Club, which
includes 10 million

00:00:34.140 --> 00:00:36.580
in north America wide
liability insurance, to

00:00:36.580 --> 00:00:38.820
ensure you are properly
covered during your

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outdoor adventures.

00:00:43.950 --> 00:00:46.050
Today, I'm joined by
my friend and past

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Silvercore podcast
guest April Vokey.

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April is a world renowned
angler, entrepreneur,

00:00:51.750 --> 00:00:54.040
and all around cool
person who traces her

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humble beginnings to
my hometown of Surrey,

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British Columbia.

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April, thanks again
for coming on this

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Silvercore Podcast.

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Thanks for having me.

00:01:02.370 --> 00:01:04.410
Um, I love talking,
or speaking with

00:01:04.410 --> 00:01:05.280
you and Tiff.

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Well, you know, I've,
I've been looking forward

00:01:08.370 --> 00:01:09.810
to getting together
with you for some time

00:01:09.810 --> 00:01:12.390
now, but with you being
stuck down under, or

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as the media would
have me believe in the

00:01:14.910 --> 00:01:17.700
upside down what we're
going to have to settle

00:01:17.700 --> 00:01:18.810
for a virtual meetup.

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It's a, it seems like
things are getting a

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little crazy down under.

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Uh huh.

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Yeah, we can talk
about that to.

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We can nav, try
to balance that

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one carefully.

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Yes.

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So, you know, with, with
Silvercore partnering

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with you to offer
Anchored Outdoors

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courses, I thought
it'd be good to give

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my audience a chance to
get to know you better,

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but you know, in all
likelihood you've been on

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60 Minutes, you've been
on the Steve Harvey Show.

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You've been a
MeatEater, Shorelines,

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and many others.

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And you only have what?

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125,000 followers
on Instagram.

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They probably
already know you.

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Um, Nope.

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Nope, definitely not
everyone knows me.

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Thank goodness.

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Yeah.

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Well, we were spit
balling back and forth,

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but a few different
ideas of, um, uh, of

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a, value that we can
bring to the listeners.

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And I, and I'm looking
at how many podcasts

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are you in now?

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You're like 158 is it?

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No more than that.

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85?

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In eight, yeah,
it's almost 200 now.

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Holy crow.

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Holy crow.

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What happened?

00:02:22.590 --> 00:02:24.720
So most of that's you
interviewing other

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people, mind you you've
been on other people's

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podcasts and people get
to interview you and

00:02:29.130 --> 00:02:32.040
you probably talk about
the same stories and a

00:02:32.040 --> 00:02:34.769
lot of the same things
coming up and which fly

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rods the best, how'd
you get into fishing.

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Yes.

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And I thought I'd take
a little bit different

00:02:42.209 --> 00:02:43.680
approach to this.

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Um, so I said, tell
you what, I got

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five questions.

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You come up with
five questions.

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I don't know what these
questions are gonna be.

00:02:51.165 --> 00:02:52.995
Uh, from you, you don't
know what the questions

00:02:52.995 --> 00:02:54.795
are going to be from me,
but the caveat is, as

00:02:54.795 --> 00:02:56.385
we both kind of have to
answer them, if we're

00:02:56.385 --> 00:02:57.045
coming up with it.

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So we really can't
sink the other person.

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Uh, so I got a
question for you.

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All right.

00:03:01.635 --> 00:03:02.235
Hit me with it.

00:03:02.925 --> 00:03:03.285
Okay.

00:03:04.095 --> 00:03:07.155
Henry David Thoreau
has a, has a quote and

00:03:07.155 --> 00:03:10.365
he says "many men go
fishing all of their

00:03:10.365 --> 00:03:13.305
lives without knowing
that it was not fish

00:03:13.335 --> 00:03:14.235
that they were after."

00:03:14.895 --> 00:03:15.855
Have you heard
that mode before?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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April, what
are you after?

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Adventure.

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Yes?

00:03:22.815 --> 00:03:25.305
Yeah, that was a question
that plagued me for

00:03:25.365 --> 00:03:26.775
probably 10 years.

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Honestly, I'd say my
late twenties and early

00:03:29.955 --> 00:03:32.385
thirties, I had this
transition in life, as

00:03:32.385 --> 00:03:35.085
many of us do as we grow
up and change and evolve.

00:03:35.085 --> 00:03:38.835
And I definitely was
at, at, I had a moment

00:03:38.835 --> 00:03:40.875
where I didn't know
why I was doing it

00:03:40.875 --> 00:03:42.795
anymore, or, you know,
the age old question of

00:03:42.795 --> 00:03:43.635
what makes you happy.

00:03:44.115 --> 00:03:46.545
I was like, well, what,
what does make me happy?

00:03:46.605 --> 00:03:48.945
And I kept coming
back to excitement.

00:03:48.975 --> 00:03:50.325
Being excited
makes me happy.

00:03:50.325 --> 00:03:51.315
Well, what excites me?

00:03:51.615 --> 00:03:54.585
Adventure is what
excites me and therefore

00:03:54.585 --> 00:03:55.305
makes me happy.

00:03:55.305 --> 00:03:57.195
So for me, I'm always
in search of the next

00:03:57.195 --> 00:03:59.325
adventure and the next
thing that's going

00:03:59.325 --> 00:04:00.465
to tickle my fancy.

00:04:01.425 --> 00:04:02.775
So how do you
define adventure?

00:04:03.285 --> 00:04:05.775
Well, it depends on
the season of my life.

00:04:05.805 --> 00:04:08.865
So now that I'm a mom,
my adventure is probably

00:04:08.865 --> 00:04:10.635
a little more mild
because I can't die,

00:04:10.665 --> 00:04:13.605
which is always, um, an
interesting revelation

00:04:13.605 --> 00:04:15.795
and actually one that's
really starting to

00:04:15.795 --> 00:04:19.049
become a very real
part of my new reality.

00:04:19.049 --> 00:04:23.640
I mean, my husband's 50,
I'm 38, well, he's 49.

00:04:23.640 --> 00:04:24.479
I'm 38.

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And if we, you know,
with all of this stuff

00:04:27.690 --> 00:04:29.099
that's happening in the
world right now, you

00:04:29.099 --> 00:04:31.530
just never know what's
going, what could happen.

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And w and we have a
child and I have, I can't

00:04:34.859 --> 00:04:37.559
go on an adventure and
just die anymore, which

00:04:37.559 --> 00:04:38.340
sounds really silly.

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But when you're younger,
there's something very

00:04:42.299 --> 00:04:46.380
free knowing that you can
go out and live your best

00:04:46.380 --> 00:04:47.520
life and not come home.

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And that you're okay
with that, but I can

00:04:49.799 --> 00:04:51.479
no longer, I no longer
have the freedom to

00:04:51.479 --> 00:04:52.380
be okay with that.

00:04:52.380 --> 00:04:53.640
That would make
me selfish.

00:04:53.760 --> 00:04:55.979
So I'm coming to terms
with that recently.

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So my adventures
are a lot more mild.

00:05:00.330 --> 00:05:02.130
You know, that, that was
one thing that I found.

00:05:02.159 --> 00:05:05.429
Nothing makes you realize
your own mortality,

00:05:06.030 --> 00:05:06.719
like having kids.

00:05:06.719 --> 00:05:08.469
That's right.

00:05:08.469 --> 00:05:11.940
It's weird, but man,
the number of times I've

00:05:11.940 --> 00:05:14.250
gone out to do something
and that little nagging

00:05:14.250 --> 00:05:17.940
voice in the back of
my head is, will you

00:05:17.940 --> 00:05:19.200
be okay afterwards?

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Will your kids remember
you as you were?

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Will they be able to
remember you into the

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future because you've
been around for them.

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And it stopped me
from doing a number of

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things that previously
I wouldn't even have

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thought twice about.

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Right.

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That's what I'm
talking about.

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And the other things that
it does to your brain.

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I mean, remember when
you and Tiffany were up

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at my place in Smithers?

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Yep.

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And I'd said to you,
listen, I have this

00:05:43.695 --> 00:05:45.795
suspicion, I've got
this new black bear

00:05:45.795 --> 00:05:48.395
on my property, the
old black bears gone.

00:05:48.425 --> 00:05:50.175
I've got this new guy
and I don't feel great

00:05:50.175 --> 00:05:51.975
about him, I fired
some shots over him.

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He's too gutsy.

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He's been
watching Adelaide.

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He sits behind the cabin.

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I'm not scaring him,
I don't feel great

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about this bear.

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Remember that
conversation?

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I sure do.

00:06:00.825 --> 00:06:02.095
So it's been, what,
two years now?

00:06:02.845 --> 00:06:03.325
Mhmm.

00:06:03.685 --> 00:06:05.505
Well, wouldn't, you
know, it, he is out

00:06:05.505 --> 00:06:09.495
there killing sheep
and the CO's have put a

00:06:09.525 --> 00:06:11.715
trap, they're trying to
get him on the river,

00:06:11.745 --> 00:06:13.755
but he lives behind my
cabin on the property.

00:06:14.235 --> 00:06:16.785
So there was a time when
I would never kill a

00:06:16.785 --> 00:06:17.685
bear, you know, never.

00:06:17.685 --> 00:06:20.385
And now I've got two
buddies and I've drawn

00:06:20.385 --> 00:06:23.055
them out a map of this
is the, this is the bed

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one, this is bed two.

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This is what, what
his pattern is.

00:06:26.715 --> 00:06:27.735
All of that fun stuff.

00:06:27.735 --> 00:06:29.355
So it changes everything.

00:06:29.355 --> 00:06:32.355
It changes my it's, it's
changed my, my morals,

00:06:32.355 --> 00:06:34.425
it's changed my planning.

00:06:34.425 --> 00:06:35.655
It's changed
my adventure.

00:06:35.655 --> 00:06:37.065
It's just, it
changes everything.

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Yeah.

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And I guess there's sort
of a balance there as

00:06:41.715 --> 00:06:43.965
well, because, well,
I guess you bring up

00:06:43.965 --> 00:06:45.555
two things which are
kind of interesting.

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Number one is,
trust your gut.

00:06:47.445 --> 00:06:49.255
It really drives you
to trust your gut.

00:06:50.115 --> 00:06:53.025
It's amazing how many
times people will

00:06:53.025 --> 00:06:54.525
come up and they'll
say, you know, I had

00:06:54.525 --> 00:06:57.585
a gut feeling about
ABC, whatever it was.

00:06:57.825 --> 00:06:59.415
I thought that
person was bad.

00:06:59.415 --> 00:07:00.825
I thought that
animal may have done

00:07:00.825 --> 00:07:03.165
something, but people
don't act off of it.

00:07:03.555 --> 00:07:06.165
I found the older you
get, the less you start

00:07:06.345 --> 00:07:09.390
caring about what other
people might think

00:07:09.390 --> 00:07:10.409
about your actions.

00:07:10.469 --> 00:07:13.169
And if you trust that
gut, all of those

00:07:13.200 --> 00:07:15.239
indicators that you
have at that moment

00:07:15.239 --> 00:07:18.390
that are giving you that
gut feeling, those are

00:07:18.390 --> 00:07:20.219
the things that people
look back on and say, I

00:07:20.219 --> 00:07:23.729
should have known because
A, B and C, but the

00:07:23.729 --> 00:07:25.530
process of rationalizing
that through your

00:07:25.530 --> 00:07:26.549
logical brain.

00:07:27.690 --> 00:07:28.109
I don't know.

00:07:28.109 --> 00:07:31.320
I think, I think it's a
step, uh, being a parent,

00:07:31.349 --> 00:07:33.840
that you just stop caring
and you don't have to

00:07:33.840 --> 00:07:34.950
rationalize it anymore.

00:07:34.950 --> 00:07:37.440
It's in the gut
feeling and you

00:07:37.440 --> 00:07:38.099
just work with it.

00:07:38.580 --> 00:07:40.320
But do you know, two,
two things on that.

00:07:40.380 --> 00:07:42.990
One, I have a buddy
who's a detective in

00:07:42.990 --> 00:07:45.960
America and he told me
years ago, one of the

00:07:45.960 --> 00:07:47.669
number one things that
he sees with homicide

00:07:47.669 --> 00:07:50.099
cases that could have
been prevented is that

00:07:50.099 --> 00:07:52.440
the woman verse, we were
speaking specifically on

00:07:52.440 --> 00:07:55.020
women's safety or safety
on women in the world.

00:07:55.260 --> 00:07:57.929
And he was saying that
most of the time, the

00:07:57.929 --> 00:08:01.169
woman knows that she's
entering a situation that

00:08:01.169 --> 00:08:01.950
she should not be in.

00:08:01.950 --> 00:08:04.289
Her gut is screaming for
her to walk away, run,

00:08:04.590 --> 00:08:06.030
call for help, anything.

00:08:06.450 --> 00:08:08.190
And because of what
she's, she's worried

00:08:08.190 --> 00:08:09.960
about what society
will think of her or

00:08:09.960 --> 00:08:12.090
being rude or whatever
it is, the stigma

00:08:12.090 --> 00:08:15.330
she's worried about
portraying, she ignores

00:08:15.330 --> 00:08:18.990
that and therefore, um,
often ends up in harm.

00:08:19.289 --> 00:08:21.840
But the second part
of this is, being a

00:08:21.840 --> 00:08:26.370
relatively newer hunter,
I have really opened

00:08:26.370 --> 00:08:28.920
my eyes in watching
animal behaviour.

00:08:29.445 --> 00:08:31.034
Especially during certain
times of the year.

00:08:31.034 --> 00:08:34.064
I mean, I know it's
not fair to, to speak

00:08:34.064 --> 00:08:35.985
entirely during the
rut because males are

00:08:35.985 --> 00:08:37.564
an entirely different
beast during the rut,

00:08:37.635 --> 00:08:40.034
but I hunt year round,
cause I'm not just

00:08:40.034 --> 00:08:42.015
looking, um, you know,
I don't just wait for

00:08:42.015 --> 00:08:43.635
the two week, awesome.

00:08:44.415 --> 00:08:45.425
Excuse me, time
in the rut.

00:08:46.214 --> 00:08:47.564
Hunting is a
year round thing.

00:08:47.564 --> 00:08:49.005
You're constantly
tracking, figuring out

00:08:49.005 --> 00:08:51.314
patterns, learning new
property, all this stuff.

00:08:51.314 --> 00:08:53.505
And so I've noticed
consistently that

00:08:53.505 --> 00:08:55.395
the females seem to
be more in tune with

00:08:55.395 --> 00:08:57.525
their instincts than
the males do, whether

00:08:57.525 --> 00:08:59.625
it's goats, deer.

00:09:00.135 --> 00:09:03.375
Um, I haven't
necessarily found birds

00:09:03.375 --> 00:09:04.214
maybe, maybe birds.

00:09:04.214 --> 00:09:06.285
I'm not a huge bird
hunter, but I have

00:09:06.285 --> 00:09:07.905
noticed specifically
around here with

00:09:07.935 --> 00:09:10.605
goats and with deer
that the females tend

00:09:10.605 --> 00:09:11.704
to know whats up.

00:09:12.074 --> 00:09:13.935
They have this
weird spidey sense.

00:09:14.145 --> 00:09:16.214
And so for me, it's
like, well, I mean,

00:09:16.214 --> 00:09:20.084
maybe I'm not, maybe I
I'm reading it wrong,

00:09:20.505 --> 00:09:23.295
but I know I get busted
by females a lot faster

00:09:23.295 --> 00:09:24.704
than I'm busted by bucks.

00:09:24.944 --> 00:09:27.194
And it just makes me
question as humans,

00:09:27.704 --> 00:09:31.845
do we, as females also
have some sort of peaked

00:09:32.655 --> 00:09:36.225
spidey sense or instinct
when it comes to danger?

00:09:37.064 --> 00:09:38.714
You know, I think
some were back in our

00:09:38.714 --> 00:09:39.944
little reptilian brain.

00:09:39.975 --> 00:09:44.745
We male, female, we all
have it, but the male ego

00:09:44.745 --> 00:09:49.584
will quite often get in
the way of, uh,accepting

00:09:49.605 --> 00:09:50.175
what you're feeling.

00:09:50.175 --> 00:09:52.275
They call it women's
intuition or guys will

00:09:52.275 --> 00:09:53.204
have gut feelings.

00:09:53.204 --> 00:09:57.105
And In order for a man to
have a gut feeling, more

00:09:57.105 --> 00:10:00.315
often than not, the man
will sit here and try and

00:10:00.315 --> 00:10:02.895
rationalize it, or maybe
there'll be driven by

00:10:02.895 --> 00:10:05.265
other things, hormones or
something else that kind

00:10:05.265 --> 00:10:07.155
of override what that
gut feeling might be.

00:10:08.175 --> 00:10:10.095
It's interesting that
you notice that in

00:10:10.095 --> 00:10:11.235
wildlife as well.

00:10:12.195 --> 00:10:12.555
Yeah.

00:10:12.585 --> 00:10:15.465
Well, I mean, I would
say it's mostly, in my

00:10:15.465 --> 00:10:18.135
situation, it's mostly
hormones where I have

00:10:18.135 --> 00:10:19.605
found that because
I'm just, I'm thinking

00:10:19.605 --> 00:10:21.615
now, you know, when I
am hunting and I, I,

00:10:21.615 --> 00:10:23.715
I had to batch up like
a bachelor property at

00:10:23.715 --> 00:10:26.415
buck property and they
are pretty onto me.

00:10:26.835 --> 00:10:28.755
I will say they are
pretty onto me when

00:10:28.755 --> 00:10:29.445
they're all together.

00:10:29.745 --> 00:10:32.295
But during the rut
especially, is when

00:10:32.295 --> 00:10:34.185
you see that the males
are obviously occupied,

00:10:34.185 --> 00:10:35.235
they're going through
all these chemical

00:10:35.235 --> 00:10:37.065
changes that's happening
within their bodies.

00:10:37.575 --> 00:10:39.135
But the females you
ever noticed, the way

00:10:39.135 --> 00:10:41.055
that they sit, even, you
know, they've got someone

00:10:41.055 --> 00:10:42.865
on the lookout and.

00:10:42.865 --> 00:10:43.145
Right.

00:10:43.295 --> 00:10:45.165
You know, I even am at
the point now where,

00:10:45.165 --> 00:10:48.525
when I'm trying to
sneak up on, you know,

00:10:48.585 --> 00:10:51.285
a number of deer, I try
to tell myself, okay,

00:10:51.555 --> 00:10:53.595
don't let that don't
have any intention.

00:10:54.135 --> 00:10:55.875
Don't, don't be thinking
that you're going to

00:10:55.875 --> 00:10:57.495
kill something right
now, because I just

00:10:57.495 --> 00:10:59.175
don't know how deep
that instinct goes.

00:10:59.355 --> 00:11:00.735
Can they sense
that they're

00:11:00.735 --> 00:11:01.895
being preyed upon?

00:11:01.915 --> 00:11:02.715
I mean, I don't know.

00:11:03.525 --> 00:11:04.935
There's a lot of people
who think you do.

00:11:05.085 --> 00:11:06.915
I remember one guy
was out hunting moose,

00:11:06.915 --> 00:11:09.375
and he says, uh, he
was a European fellow.

00:11:09.405 --> 00:11:11.355
He's like, you gotta
be thinking happy

00:11:11.355 --> 00:11:12.795
thoughts when he walks
through the bush.

00:11:13.035 --> 00:11:15.405
Don't think I'm a hunter,
I'm out here, I'm going

00:11:15.405 --> 00:11:16.455
to harvest something.

00:11:16.785 --> 00:11:18.435
You got to think
I'm happy, I'm just

00:11:18.435 --> 00:11:19.175
enjoying the bush.

00:11:19.875 --> 00:11:22.035
He was a very successful
hunter, so there might

00:11:22.035 --> 00:11:22.785
be something to it.

00:11:23.055 --> 00:11:23.205
Yeah.

00:11:23.475 --> 00:11:25.395
I don't know, but
we are animals and

00:11:25.395 --> 00:11:26.925
that does, that's the
key takeaway here.

00:11:26.925 --> 00:11:29.415
You know, we are animals
at the end of the day.

00:11:29.865 --> 00:11:31.935
And I think that we
just shouldn't be

00:11:32.055 --> 00:11:33.075
ignoring that gut.

00:11:33.555 --> 00:11:34.665
How do we get onto that?

00:11:35.235 --> 00:11:36.825
I don't know,
but, uh, I'm okay

00:11:36.825 --> 00:11:37.665
yapping about that.

00:11:37.694 --> 00:11:41.205
Um, so I think
that was all from

00:11:41.205 --> 00:11:41.985
the Thoreau quote.

00:11:42.405 --> 00:11:43.095
What drives you?

00:11:43.245 --> 00:11:45.765
And you talked about
taking less risks

00:11:45.855 --> 00:11:46.694
as you get older.

00:11:47.205 --> 00:11:48.815
Have you reached a point
yet where you looked

00:11:48.815 --> 00:11:50.595
and say, I want to start
taking some more risks.

00:11:50.925 --> 00:11:51.525
Oh yeah.

00:11:51.975 --> 00:11:53.444
Like the day after
I gave birth.

00:11:53.505 --> 00:11:53.925
Yeah.

00:11:55.455 --> 00:11:56.355
I never changed.

00:11:56.355 --> 00:11:57.215
I think that's the thing.

00:11:57.215 --> 00:11:58.635
That's the big thing
is, you know, everyone

00:11:58.635 --> 00:12:00.045
says, oh, you're
going to change.

00:12:00.615 --> 00:12:01.665
And for, yeah.

00:12:01.665 --> 00:12:04.335
I mean, I was the person
saying I'll never change.

00:12:04.455 --> 00:12:06.765
And I guess we've just
established that I have

00:12:06.765 --> 00:12:12.555
changed, but not me, not
April the person, I still

00:12:12.555 --> 00:12:14.325
am just as wild as I was.

00:12:14.625 --> 00:12:17.535
I'm just not allowed
to be as wild as I was.

00:12:17.535 --> 00:12:19.335
I'd just have to be
more responsible,

00:12:19.395 --> 00:12:20.535
you know, but.

00:12:20.595 --> 00:12:21.645
A little bit
better containment.

00:12:21.855 --> 00:12:22.215
Yeah.

00:12:22.245 --> 00:12:23.835
But yeah, no, I I'm
at the point now

00:12:23.835 --> 00:12:25.665
where I'm ready to get
wild and crazy again.

00:12:26.175 --> 00:12:27.555
Uh, but I'm stuck.

00:12:27.585 --> 00:12:28.335
I can't go anywhere.

00:12:28.335 --> 00:12:31.155
And it sucks because
we were all aligned

00:12:31.155 --> 00:12:32.954
to do all these wild,
crazy adventures.

00:12:32.954 --> 00:12:35.715
And we had started that
again when lockdown

00:12:35.715 --> 00:12:38.925
had lifted and now
we're back in jail.

00:12:39.825 --> 00:12:43.530
Well, you've almost
died a few times.

00:12:43.560 --> 00:12:45.630
I'm, being rafting down
the river when your raft

00:12:45.630 --> 00:12:49.079
overturned and it's,
course thatcar accident

00:12:49.079 --> 00:12:51.060
you were in was, uh,
was, you're pretty

00:12:51.060 --> 00:12:52.220
lucky to walk away from.

00:12:52.250 --> 00:12:52.520
Big time.

00:12:52.630 --> 00:12:54.150
Did you have other
experiences like that?

00:12:54.750 --> 00:12:56.250
Oh, I think the
usual, you know, I've

00:12:56.250 --> 00:12:57.930
had a lot of bear
encounters when I used

00:12:57.930 --> 00:12:58.800
to guide on the Dean.

00:12:58.829 --> 00:13:00.770
We were in Tweedsmur.

00:13:00.800 --> 00:13:03.300
So surrounded by grizzly
bears, I've been charged.

00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.120
Um, I can't think
of anything that's

00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:07.680
too obvious.

00:13:07.680 --> 00:13:08.880
You know, I haven't
had, it's not like I've

00:13:08.880 --> 00:13:11.220
wrestled a Cougar or
anything, or any of the

00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:12.720
stories that some of
your guests have done,

00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:15.210
but you know, it's just
part of the, it's just

00:13:15.210 --> 00:13:16.829
part of the experience.

00:13:16.829 --> 00:13:18.600
If you're going to be out
in the bush, it's, that's

00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:19.829
just part of the gamble.

00:13:22.260 --> 00:13:22.470
Yeah.

00:13:22.470 --> 00:13:25.949
You know, I've before
having kids, I said,

00:13:26.130 --> 00:13:27.880
tell you what we've made
the decision gonna have

00:13:27.900 --> 00:13:29.640
kids, my life is on hold.

00:13:29.699 --> 00:13:31.319
I'm going to live
100% for them.

00:13:31.710 --> 00:13:33.150
Now that my kids are
getting a little bit

00:13:33.150 --> 00:13:35.310
older, I'm looking
and saying maybe that

00:13:35.310 --> 00:13:37.829
wasn't entirely the
right decision, because

00:13:37.829 --> 00:13:40.890
there's definitely a
lot in yourself that you

00:13:40.890 --> 00:13:43.829
need to feed so you can
provide the best possible

00:13:44.040 --> 00:13:45.810
you to your kids.

00:13:45.930 --> 00:13:48.210
And so we find ourselves
going out on more and

00:13:48.210 --> 00:13:50.100
more adventures and as
they get older, they're

00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:52.260
now accompanying you
on those adventures.

00:13:52.439 --> 00:13:54.510
I must be a horribly
selfish human because

00:13:54.510 --> 00:13:57.060
I never thought that.

00:13:57.060 --> 00:13:58.980
And I, and I will
admit if we're being

00:13:59.010 --> 00:13:59.760
totally honest.

00:13:59.760 --> 00:14:01.620
And because we're
friends, I went through

00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:03.839
a bit of guilt because
I kept waiting for

00:14:03.839 --> 00:14:04.829
that thing to happen.

00:14:05.280 --> 00:14:06.780
You never, I kept saying
you're going to change.

00:14:06.780 --> 00:14:09.405
So I kept waiting for
this change to happen.

00:14:09.405 --> 00:14:12.405
And I kept waiting
to put her life first

00:14:12.405 --> 00:14:13.665
and it would be all
about her and it

00:14:13.665 --> 00:14:14.895
just never happened.

00:14:15.405 --> 00:14:19.215
And then I realized it's
because I had a child

00:14:19.545 --> 00:14:21.585
too, because I finally
felt like I was ready

00:14:21.585 --> 00:14:24.765
as a woman to give a
person on this planet,

00:14:24.975 --> 00:14:25.995
the best that I'd had.

00:14:25.995 --> 00:14:27.615
I mean, I've been
working for 40 years to

00:14:27.615 --> 00:14:30.075
be the best self, you
know, my, my best self.

00:14:31.005 --> 00:14:34.395
I can't, if I lost
all that and just

00:14:34.425 --> 00:14:37.545
totally abandoned all
of these years of work

00:14:38.055 --> 00:14:39.795
and was overshadowed
in this, you know,

00:14:39.795 --> 00:14:43.185
societal stigma of what
motherhood should be.

00:14:43.455 --> 00:14:45.194
Then I knew I was going
to actually deprive my

00:14:45.194 --> 00:14:46.815
daughter of all of the
things that I'd worked

00:14:46.815 --> 00:14:47.955
so hard to pass onto her.

00:14:48.525 --> 00:14:50.805
So to me, it was almost
like I gave birth to this

00:14:50.805 --> 00:14:53.055
little by little compadre
and yes, I'm responsible

00:14:53.055 --> 00:14:55.725
for her and I love her
more than anything, but

00:14:56.475 --> 00:15:01.155
she's, um, I'm not ready
to give up my life yet.

00:15:01.155 --> 00:15:02.985
Does that make me a
horribly selfish human?

00:15:03.765 --> 00:15:04.845
No, I don't think so.

00:15:04.875 --> 00:15:05.535
I don't think so.

00:15:05.535 --> 00:15:07.635
I think the whole idea
of giving up your life

00:15:07.725 --> 00:15:10.455
in order to live for
the kids is, uh, was

00:15:10.455 --> 00:15:12.285
probably a little too
far on the end of the

00:15:12.285 --> 00:15:15.825
spectrum of my, my iod,
ideology is definitely

00:15:15.825 --> 00:15:18.885
come on back because you
need to have something

00:15:18.975 --> 00:15:21.795
that you're continually
developing in yourself to

00:15:21.795 --> 00:15:23.625
be able to share with the
little ones that you're

00:15:23.625 --> 00:15:24.525
bringing into this world.

00:15:24.555 --> 00:15:26.085
I don't think, I think
you're just a little

00:15:26.085 --> 00:15:29.295
bit more rational than
I was in my approach to,

00:15:29.295 --> 00:15:30.295
uh, into all of that.

00:15:30.525 --> 00:15:31.815
But you were a
young parent, right?

00:15:31.815 --> 00:15:33.105
How old were you
when you guys?

00:15:34.335 --> 00:15:35.105
Good question.

00:15:35.105 --> 00:15:39.915
Uh, lets see, uh if I
,2007 had the first one.

00:15:39.915 --> 00:15:40.995
So what would
that make me?

00:15:41.655 --> 00:15:42.735
I don't even know
how old I am.

00:15:42.735 --> 00:15:43.814
People ask me
how old are you?

00:15:43.814 --> 00:15:44.265
I don't know.

00:15:44.265 --> 00:15:46.185
I was born in 1978
and I do the math.

00:15:46.185 --> 00:15:47.385
I think that's 43 now.

00:15:47.865 --> 00:15:52.005
Uh, so 43, takeaway 14.

00:15:52.005 --> 00:15:53.165
So I would have
been yeah, 29.

00:15:53.515 --> 00:15:53.645
Yeah.

00:15:53.844 --> 00:15:54.375
And what a time.

00:15:54.375 --> 00:15:55.285
I don't know if
that's young.

00:15:55.435 --> 00:15:57.824
But 29 is such an
interesting time.

00:15:57.824 --> 00:15:58.875
And I don't know if
it's the same for

00:15:58.875 --> 00:16:02.339
men, but I know myself
and my friends, 29,

00:16:02.339 --> 00:16:04.755
29 to 34 was huge.

00:16:04.995 --> 00:16:06.735
That was a huge pivot.

00:16:07.245 --> 00:16:09.645
Uh, just, uh, a big
change in our, in

00:16:09.704 --> 00:16:10.605
many of our lives.

00:16:10.605 --> 00:16:12.435
So, I mean, I don't know.

00:16:12.435 --> 00:16:14.745
Maybe there was, maybe
it has something to

00:16:14.745 --> 00:16:15.905
do with that, may.

00:16:16.035 --> 00:16:17.505
There's a lot of
reasons, but here's

00:16:17.505 --> 00:16:18.375
my question for you.

00:16:18.375 --> 00:16:20.115
Now, let me throw
this back at you.

00:16:20.115 --> 00:16:20.985
Here's one of my five.

00:16:21.795 --> 00:16:26.985
If you, looking back
now and do it being so

00:16:26.985 --> 00:16:29.204
responsible, because when
you tell me you're 43,

00:16:29.204 --> 00:16:31.365
it makes me it does, it
makes me go, oh my gosh.

00:16:31.365 --> 00:16:34.905
I mean, you guys have it,
you guys are so together.

00:16:34.964 --> 00:16:36.645
You and Tiffany
are so together.

00:16:36.675 --> 00:16:38.355
When I think of people,
I really look up to

00:16:38.355 --> 00:16:41.535
as entrepreneurial
husband, wives, parents.

00:16:41.535 --> 00:16:44.235
I honest to goodness,
conservationist, I

00:16:44.235 --> 00:16:44.985
think of you guys.

00:16:44.985 --> 00:16:45.675
I really do.

00:16:46.265 --> 00:16:47.835
I'm deeply flattered.

00:16:47.865 --> 00:16:49.995
I put on a very good
illusion I guess.

00:16:51.495 --> 00:16:53.595
But there's only four
years between us that

00:16:53.595 --> 00:16:55.905
I feel like you're 25
years older than I am.

00:16:56.385 --> 00:17:00.615
Looking back now in all
of that responsibility

00:17:00.615 --> 00:17:04.230
that you've taken on,
do you feel like in

00:17:04.230 --> 00:17:06.180
your twenties and your
thirties say you missed

00:17:06.180 --> 00:17:08.579
out on something that
you would change now,

00:17:08.639 --> 00:17:09.510
if you could go back.

00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:11.400
Ooh, that's a
good question.

00:17:11.490 --> 00:17:16.230
So in some aspects, no.

00:17:16.349 --> 00:17:20.310
So when I look back into
my younger years, I was

00:17:20.310 --> 00:17:21.780
not excelling in school.

00:17:21.810 --> 00:17:23.190
It just wasn't
the thing for me.

00:17:23.250 --> 00:17:26.550
And in fact, I
was politely asked

00:17:26.550 --> 00:17:28.560
to leave several
different schools.

00:17:29.070 --> 00:17:31.080
I think I had five
different high schools

00:17:31.080 --> 00:17:32.580
and went to a couple
of different, uh,

00:17:32.610 --> 00:17:33.720
elementary schools.

00:17:34.360 --> 00:17:35.850
It just wasn't for me.

00:17:36.330 --> 00:17:38.730
But I looked at some of
my friends who were going

00:17:38.730 --> 00:17:42.210
on to post-secondary
education and or career

00:17:42.210 --> 00:17:44.430
trades training, and
they were getting

00:17:44.430 --> 00:17:46.740
their life in order
at such an early age.

00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:48.900
And they were earning
and they were, uh,

00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:51.270
being able to acquire
all the things that

00:17:51.360 --> 00:17:53.240
at that age you figure
you should have, right.

00:17:53.290 --> 00:17:56.250
They've got a vehicle and
there they've got a place

00:17:56.250 --> 00:17:56.910
that they're getting.

00:17:57.420 --> 00:18:01.980
And I, I didn't
have that.

00:18:02.040 --> 00:18:05.610
I kind of floundered
or foundered, whatever

00:18:05.610 --> 00:18:08.190
the word is, in school
and I got out and I

00:18:08.190 --> 00:18:11.129
just, I was all over the
board, ADHD kicking in.

00:18:11.129 --> 00:18:13.500
I was working several
different jobs and, and

00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:14.670
trying to build my own.

00:18:14.670 --> 00:18:15.750
And finally, I
reached a point.

00:18:15.750 --> 00:18:16.440
I said, you know what?

00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:20.400
I want to retire when
I'm 32, I want to be

00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:22.770
able to have mortgage
paid off, be able to

00:18:22.770 --> 00:18:24.420
retire by the age of 32.

00:18:24.450 --> 00:18:25.740
How do I do that?

00:18:26.340 --> 00:18:29.100
And I started looking
at different business

00:18:29.100 --> 00:18:30.930
models that I could
possibly take on.

00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:33.930
And I came to the
conclusion that

00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.080
whatever I do, it's
going to require all

00:18:37.080 --> 00:18:39.480
of my effort, 110%.

00:18:39.630 --> 00:18:41.310
And I'm not going to
be able to have the

00:18:41.310 --> 00:18:46.530
benefit of a, sort of
an education roadmap.

00:18:46.560 --> 00:18:48.030
Like some people go
to business school

00:18:48.060 --> 00:18:50.700
and they know one
plus one equals two.

00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:52.590
I know the path, they
know the formula for

00:18:52.950 --> 00:18:57.300
generating a livelihood,
but I knew I wouldn't,

00:18:57.390 --> 00:18:58.800
I wouldn't thrive
in that setting.

00:18:58.800 --> 00:19:01.230
And I would once
again, be the same

00:19:01.230 --> 00:19:02.940
as my previous
schooling experiences.

00:19:03.690 --> 00:19:05.520
So I really did
approach it from a

00:19:05.520 --> 00:19:07.380
school of hard knocks
and just nose to the

00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:08.850
grindstone sort of way.

00:19:09.390 --> 00:19:13.680
Um, and I was
fortunate enough to be

00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:17.910
successful at an early
age, more  through

00:19:18.020 --> 00:19:20.730
pure determination
than anything else.

00:19:21.210 --> 00:19:24.300
I mean, if I wanted to be
able to make X amount of

00:19:24.300 --> 00:19:27.030
money at the end of the
month, I would find a way

00:19:27.030 --> 00:19:28.110
to be able to do that.

00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:30.480
Now that might've been,
let's say I make a

00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.510
hundred dollars in one
month, but I worked

00:19:33.570 --> 00:19:35.910
every single hour of
at each day in order

00:19:35.910 --> 00:19:37.860
to make that, I can do
that, but I would look

00:19:37.860 --> 00:19:40.620
back and say, does the
ends justify the means?

00:19:40.620 --> 00:19:41.880
Like, was it
all worth it?

00:19:42.510 --> 00:19:45.960
So when I look back,
did I miss anything?

00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:49.140
In some respects, I
started giving up all of

00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:51.450
my evenings and all of
my weekends, because I

00:19:51.450 --> 00:19:53.790
was providing training
to people who, when that

00:19:53.790 --> 00:19:54.690
was their free time.

00:19:54.750 --> 00:19:56.850
So I missed out on some
of this stuff on weekends

00:19:56.850 --> 00:19:59.730
and evenings, but to be
honest, that was never.

00:20:01.065 --> 00:20:02.685
That was never
something that was a

00:20:02.685 --> 00:20:03.705
true driver for me.

00:20:03.705 --> 00:20:06.524
Like I worked in
nightclubs as a bouncer,

00:20:07.514 --> 00:20:09.855
but aside from that,
I didn't find joy

00:20:09.885 --> 00:20:12.435
or pleasure in going
out, partying it up.

00:20:12.764 --> 00:20:15.585
And I never really wanted
to be the weekend warrior

00:20:16.125 --> 00:20:17.925
with everybody else and
all the other crowds.

00:20:17.925 --> 00:20:20.925
So I, I can't say I
missed too much there.

00:20:21.254 --> 00:20:23.085
When you talk about
a pivotal point in

00:20:23.085 --> 00:20:25.875
your thirties, my
thirties were a blur.

00:20:26.415 --> 00:20:29.925
I mean, I, I spent
eight years from about

00:20:29.985 --> 00:20:34.485
29 onwards, uh, just
in a blur, just trying

00:20:34.514 --> 00:20:36.495
madly to keep the
business afloat and

00:20:36.495 --> 00:20:39.495
keep things running
and, and, uh, fighting

00:20:39.495 --> 00:20:40.395
different fights.

00:20:40.395 --> 00:20:44.534
And just, there was a
lot of difficulties and

00:20:44.534 --> 00:20:46.004
strains during that time.

00:20:46.395 --> 00:20:50.885
So I really don't have
much of a thirties when,

00:20:50.895 --> 00:20:53.115
when you mentioned that
and it sounds weird, but

00:20:53.325 --> 00:20:56.175
I feel like I've missed
most of that period.

00:20:56.955 --> 00:21:01.545
And that was a by-product
of being an entrepreneur,

00:21:01.905 --> 00:21:06.345
I think, and not
necessarily taking

00:21:06.345 --> 00:21:09.284
the precautions as an
entrepreneur entrepreneur

00:21:09.764 --> 00:21:11.955
that's needed in order
to protect yourself

00:21:11.985 --> 00:21:14.415
from outside parties
that may wish to try and

00:21:14.415 --> 00:21:15.225
do what you're doing.

00:21:15.254 --> 00:21:19.905
And so that, that, from
that perspective, I

00:21:19.905 --> 00:21:22.395
think it was probably
a very necessary

00:21:22.395 --> 00:21:24.825
point of my learning
process to have that,

00:21:25.425 --> 00:21:27.254
but not one I'd ever
want to have repeated.

00:21:28.365 --> 00:21:29.774
I don't know if that
answers the question.

00:21:30.104 --> 00:21:31.004
Yeah, it does.

00:21:31.304 --> 00:21:33.165
It's it's funny, you
know, you have to

00:21:33.165 --> 00:21:35.264
invest, everything's
an investment, right?

00:21:35.475 --> 00:21:38.024
So you're investing
the time to be

00:21:38.024 --> 00:21:39.225
able to play later.

00:21:39.225 --> 00:21:39.465
Right.

00:21:39.465 --> 00:21:41.504
So work hard now,
play hard later,

00:21:41.504 --> 00:21:42.254
all of that stuff.

00:21:42.524 --> 00:21:45.915
But I'd be very
curious if, because a

00:21:45.915 --> 00:21:47.804
lot of things happen
emotionally, right?

00:21:47.804 --> 00:21:49.395
When you're young and
running around and

00:21:49.395 --> 00:21:53.175
traveling and just
being, especially

00:21:53.175 --> 00:21:53.715
in your thirties.

00:21:53.715 --> 00:21:56.115
So I'm going to be
watching you very closely

00:21:56.145 --> 00:21:57.615
for a midlife crisis.

00:21:57.615 --> 00:22:00.645
I'm going to see what
happens in your fifties.

00:22:01.905 --> 00:22:02.415
Somehow.

00:22:02.415 --> 00:22:04.695
I can't see a midlife
crisis, a friend of mine,

00:22:04.695 --> 00:22:07.425
he talked me into, um,
he says, you gotta get

00:22:07.425 --> 00:22:08.504
your motorcycle license.

00:22:08.504 --> 00:22:11.715
And it just so turns
out that a school that

00:22:11.715 --> 00:22:14.294
I taught out of back
in my early twenties,

00:22:14.544 --> 00:22:16.455
a fellow there, he's
their, their lead

00:22:16.455 --> 00:22:18.645
instructor, brilliant
instructor, really

00:22:18.645 --> 00:22:19.995
great guy runs a school.

00:22:20.415 --> 00:22:22.155
Uh, he says Trav,
come on in, come on,

00:22:22.165 --> 00:22:23.895
you gotta get your
motorcycle license.

00:22:24.135 --> 00:22:26.145
I think that's
the closest to a

00:22:26.145 --> 00:22:27.135
midlife crisis.

00:22:27.135 --> 00:22:29.534
And of all of that,
I've, you know, I enjoy

00:22:29.534 --> 00:22:31.574
riding motorcycles, but
I got no desire to be

00:22:31.574 --> 00:22:33.165
able to drive around
in the lower mainland.

00:22:33.465 --> 00:22:37.844
Seeing, seeing too many
of the adverse side

00:22:37.844 --> 00:22:38.804
effects of that one.

00:22:39.284 --> 00:22:39.524
Yeah.

00:22:40.485 --> 00:22:41.685
Yeah, yeah.

00:22:41.685 --> 00:22:43.064
That's that, that
is a good one.

00:22:43.064 --> 00:22:45.975
How about you would,
uh, you've I mean,

00:22:45.975 --> 00:22:48.254
like you've worked
your butt off.

00:22:48.375 --> 00:22:52.125
You have been so
passionate towards

00:22:52.965 --> 00:22:54.495
every endeavor that
you've just jumped

00:22:54.870 --> 00:22:56.040
feet first into it.

00:22:56.340 --> 00:22:58.830
Do you look back and say,
man, I wish I tempered

00:22:58.830 --> 00:22:59.700
myself a little bit.

00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:00.840
No.

00:23:01.470 --> 00:23:02.550
I was always
a workaholic.

00:23:02.580 --> 00:23:05.490
I mean, from date,
from the beginning,

00:23:05.520 --> 00:23:07.920
from the first, I was
a workaholic before it

00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:08.639
was allowed to work.

00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:10.500
I mean, I remember taking
my babysitting course

00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:13.260
when I was a kid and
printing out cards and

00:23:13.260 --> 00:23:15.270
door to door and I was
trying to pick up as

00:23:15.270 --> 00:23:16.350
many shifts as possible.

00:23:16.350 --> 00:23:18.840
And I would've been, I
would've been what 11, I

00:23:18.840 --> 00:23:20.700
mean, just a total kid.

00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:22.740
Sorry, I'm going to just
shut this email down.

00:23:23.310 --> 00:23:26.040
And um, and then from
there, you know, going

00:23:26.040 --> 00:23:29.190
to work in restaurants
from the age of 13, I

00:23:29.190 --> 00:23:31.500
think it was 13, 15,
whenever you're, whenever

00:23:31.500 --> 00:23:32.430
you're allowed to work.

00:23:32.520 --> 00:23:33.659
And as soon as that
happened, I was

00:23:33.659 --> 00:23:34.590
working two jobs.

00:23:34.590 --> 00:23:37.800
And then, uh, I started
my first business at

00:23:38.280 --> 00:23:40.889
21 and I've always
just, it gets me off.

00:23:40.889 --> 00:23:44.670
I love working, but,
but I've always played

00:23:44.670 --> 00:23:47.610
hard in the day and I've
always worked hard at

00:23:47.610 --> 00:23:51.000
night and my sacrifice
has always been sleep.

00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:53.190
So I sacrifice sleep.

00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:54.840
And so looking back
now, it's hard to regret

00:23:54.840 --> 00:23:56.760
sacrificing sleep because
all you do is have

00:23:56.760 --> 00:23:58.290
a good night's sleep
and you forget that

00:23:58.290 --> 00:23:59.229
you sacrifice sleep.

00:23:59.810 --> 00:24:00.239
Totally.

00:24:00.590 --> 00:24:01.920
So it's, I don't
feel like I've

00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:03.030
given anything up.

00:24:03.450 --> 00:24:05.280
Well, what was it that
drove you to work?

00:24:05.340 --> 00:24:06.180
Was it the money?

00:24:07.470 --> 00:24:09.240
I think so, at first.

00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:09.480
Yeah.

00:24:09.899 --> 00:24:12.420
I think I want to
security and stability.

00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:14.940
So I, uh, my strategy
a friend asked me

00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:16.860
this the other day,
what's your strategy?

00:24:16.860 --> 00:24:18.180
And my strategy has
always been that I'm

00:24:18.180 --> 00:24:19.220
a long-term player.

00:24:19.690 --> 00:24:20.879
So I've always,
I mean, I started

00:24:20.879 --> 00:24:22.440
investing at 16, right.

00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.050
I was always looking
very, very long

00:24:25.050 --> 00:24:25.680
in the future.

00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:27.000
I'm always
looking way ahead.

00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:31.320
And so I think for me,
um, you know, I was

00:24:31.320 --> 00:24:33.810
driven by being prepared
to have all of the

00:24:33.810 --> 00:24:36.120
chess pieces in place
so that when I was in

00:24:36.120 --> 00:24:39.160
my forties, I could
relax, which is ironic

00:24:39.180 --> 00:24:40.890
because now I probably
work harder than ever.

00:24:40.890 --> 00:24:43.290
But I think it's because
I just love it so much.

00:24:43.290 --> 00:24:45.360
And I'm finally on to
a business plan that is

00:24:45.360 --> 00:24:48.210
really working and I love
it and it's satisfying

00:24:48.210 --> 00:24:51.090
and it's just, I'm, I've
never been so fulfilled

00:24:51.090 --> 00:24:51.840
as I am right now.

00:24:52.350 --> 00:24:54.720
But, um, I, it was
probably about having

00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:56.940
security and money
so that I could

00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:57.720
fish all the time.

00:24:58.200 --> 00:24:58.410
Right.

00:24:58.410 --> 00:25:00.629
I never wanted to be
loaded, but I wanted

00:25:00.629 --> 00:25:03.000
to have enough money so
that I could do what I

00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:04.890
wanted in the daytime.

00:25:05.190 --> 00:25:07.440
And that was at the
time fish, now more

00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:08.550
recently, fish and hunt.

00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:12.270
Um, but then, you know,
a couple of things

00:25:12.270 --> 00:25:14.910
happened in my life
and, um, you know,

00:25:14.910 --> 00:25:17.370
one day I did actually
wake up to some money.

00:25:17.370 --> 00:25:19.620
Some things had happened
and I woke up to money

00:25:19.620 --> 00:25:23.850
in my account and it
didn't change anything,

00:25:23.850 --> 00:25:24.720
nothing changed.

00:25:24.750 --> 00:25:25.770
I didn't feel any better.

00:25:25.830 --> 00:25:27.210
I didn't feel any
more relieved.

00:25:27.600 --> 00:25:29.520
I didn't feel any
less stressed out,

00:25:29.520 --> 00:25:30.630
like nothing changed.

00:25:31.410 --> 00:25:32.730
And that was when
I thought, okay, so

00:25:32.730 --> 00:25:34.170
why am I doing this?

00:25:34.620 --> 00:25:37.260
And, um, part of the
problem is my brain goes

00:25:37.320 --> 00:25:38.460
a million miles an hour.

00:25:38.490 --> 00:25:39.389
I'm like you, right.

00:25:39.389 --> 00:25:42.320
My brain just, but it's,
it's just constantly,

00:25:42.810 --> 00:25:43.620
can't sleep at night.

00:25:43.620 --> 00:25:44.790
And that's one of
the reasons why I've

00:25:44.790 --> 00:25:45.480
always worked at night.

00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.720
I just cannot sleep at
night, I thrive best

00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:49.889
off five hours of sleep.

00:25:50.159 --> 00:25:50.909
My brain just.

00:25:52.350 --> 00:25:52.860
Stop.

00:25:53.340 --> 00:25:53.760
Right.

00:25:54.330 --> 00:25:57.600
And so, um, I just
need to keep it busy

00:25:57.629 --> 00:26:00.480
to be totally honest
and what better way

00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.700
to do it than to do it
with the business that

00:26:02.700 --> 00:26:04.379
you love and you're
passionate about, and

00:26:04.620 --> 00:26:06.899
that does help support
you and does help bring

00:26:06.899 --> 00:26:08.220
income to your family.

00:26:08.490 --> 00:26:10.950
Um, and like I said,
in more recent years

00:26:11.010 --> 00:26:12.840
built a community of
people that you really

00:26:12.840 --> 00:26:13.889
enjoy hanging out with.

00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:15.899
I like that.

00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:17.639
And you know, even
though you said that

00:26:17.970 --> 00:26:20.100
money was probably the
motivator from a young

00:26:20.100 --> 00:26:22.530
age, when you're talking
there, it didn't sound

00:26:22.530 --> 00:26:24.540
like it was money that
was a motivator, but

00:26:24.540 --> 00:26:26.550
the proceeds of money,
what money will bring

00:26:26.550 --> 00:26:28.260
you, and that brings
you your hobby, that

00:26:28.260 --> 00:26:29.760
brings you the security
that brings you.

00:26:30.060 --> 00:26:30.690
Time.

00:26:31.110 --> 00:26:33.629
Time was, I wanted time.

00:26:33.629 --> 00:26:36.899
I wanted to be able to
have enough money so

00:26:36.899 --> 00:26:38.370
that I could use my time.

00:26:40.080 --> 00:26:42.570
So what was it that
Rockefeller said, I

00:26:42.570 --> 00:26:43.919
think it was a reporter
that asked him.

00:26:43.919 --> 00:26:45.210
It says, how
much is enough?

00:26:45.540 --> 00:26:47.550
And he says just $1 more.

00:26:47.669 --> 00:26:48.030
Right?

00:26:48.270 --> 00:26:49.950
Always more,
always want more.

00:26:49.950 --> 00:26:53.550
And there's at, there's
always this drive within

00:26:53.580 --> 00:26:57.000
certain people to want
to build more, to create

00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:59.280
more, to have more time,
whatever it might be.

00:27:00.450 --> 00:27:04.100
But at some point this
will all end that,

00:27:04.100 --> 00:27:04.980
that time will end.

00:27:05.370 --> 00:27:09.120
Do you feel like right
now, you are dedicating

00:27:09.120 --> 00:27:12.540
the appropriate amount
of time in your day to

00:27:12.540 --> 00:27:13.820
what's really important?

00:27:16.530 --> 00:27:16.860
Do you?

00:27:17.090 --> 00:27:18.465
Oh are you asking
me that right now?

00:27:18.495 --> 00:27:18.965
Yeah.

00:27:19.195 --> 00:27:21.255
Oh, well, it's a really
tricky time right

00:27:21.255 --> 00:27:22.935
now because it's,
we're in lockdown and

00:27:22.935 --> 00:27:24.885
have been for like
a year, by the way.

00:27:24.885 --> 00:27:25.475
I know.

00:27:25.495 --> 00:27:27.525
I mean, yeah, we get,
we get like two weeks

00:27:27.525 --> 00:27:30.795
here and there, but
we are, we are in a

00:27:30.795 --> 00:27:32.685
very, very strange time
and I'm, I'm starting

00:27:32.685 --> 00:27:35.535
to forget what normal
felt like to be honest.

00:27:36.105 --> 00:27:38.865
And so right now, no,
I don't feel like any

00:27:38.865 --> 00:27:40.815
of those things are,
are happening, but I'm

00:27:40.815 --> 00:27:44.935
also quite literally a
prisoner in my own home.

00:27:44.935 --> 00:27:46.425
I love my home.

00:27:46.425 --> 00:27:47.695
What does your
lockdown look like?

00:27:47.955 --> 00:27:49.425
Oh you can't, you
can't leave the house.

00:27:49.425 --> 00:27:51.615
So I know the
media was making it

00:27:51.615 --> 00:27:52.485
seem pretty crazy.

00:27:52.485 --> 00:27:55.335
There were helicopters
above telling people

00:27:55.335 --> 00:27:58.095
to get inside and there
are helicopters telling

00:27:58.095 --> 00:28:00.675
people to get inside, but
right now, as it stands,

00:28:00.675 --> 00:28:01.995
it's absolutely asinine.

00:28:01.995 --> 00:28:03.195
I mean, I can't
meet a friend at

00:28:03.195 --> 00:28:04.275
the park with kids.

00:28:05.055 --> 00:28:05.585
I can't even.

00:28:05.585 --> 00:28:05.805
Wow.

00:28:05.805 --> 00:28:09.015
Meet a friend at the
park with children.

00:28:09.075 --> 00:28:09.885
They're changing it.

00:28:09.915 --> 00:28:12.705
So now for vaccinated,
we can hang out together

00:28:12.705 --> 00:28:15.075
in the park, but, and
again, this is a very

00:28:15.075 --> 00:28:16.725
slippery slope and
probably not the right

00:28:16.725 --> 00:28:17.445
platform for this.

00:28:17.445 --> 00:28:19.095
And I am certainly not
the right person to speak

00:28:19.095 --> 00:28:20.775
on this, but it is crazy.

00:28:20.775 --> 00:28:22.785
And I've told Charles
I will give it, I

00:28:22.785 --> 00:28:24.495
understand Canada
or BC has got an,

00:28:24.495 --> 00:28:26.805
a mandate coming in
soon, mid September.

00:28:27.705 --> 00:28:28.755
I think it's the 13th.

00:28:28.785 --> 00:28:32.265
We've got a, uh, uh,
COVID passport that

00:28:32.265 --> 00:28:33.935
they've proposed and
say it's coming in.

00:28:34.155 --> 00:28:36.195
I'm going to very
patiently wait and

00:28:36.195 --> 00:28:36.795
see what happens.

00:28:36.825 --> 00:28:37.804
And I've told
Charles that come

00:28:37.804 --> 00:28:40.064
November I'm leaving.

00:28:40.455 --> 00:28:42.165
But right now, so the
reason why we haven't

00:28:42.165 --> 00:28:44.235
left is it's illegal for
an Australian citizen

00:28:44.245 --> 00:28:46.425
to leave the country
and has been for almost

00:28:46.425 --> 00:28:47.084
two years, by the way.

00:28:47.865 --> 00:28:48.145
So.

00:28:48.145 --> 00:28:49.064
So Charles can't leave.

00:28:49.094 --> 00:28:49.665
He can't leave.

00:28:49.665 --> 00:28:52.185
So I can, with Adelaide
and we can leave.

00:28:52.185 --> 00:28:54.705
But the problem is is
that even if we apply

00:28:54.705 --> 00:28:56.715
for a permit to come
back, because I'm not

00:28:56.715 --> 00:28:58.665
a citizen here, I'm
a Canadian citizen.

00:28:59.205 --> 00:29:00.885
There's no guarantee
that we can get back

00:29:00.945 --> 00:29:02.235
before 10 months.

00:29:02.865 --> 00:29:05.534
And so that's a long
time away from picking

00:29:05.534 --> 00:29:06.945
my daughter away from
her father, which I would

00:29:06.945 --> 00:29:09.915
never do to her because
for all she knows,

00:29:09.915 --> 00:29:10.754
everything's normal.

00:29:10.784 --> 00:29:12.495
We've played things
very, very, very

00:29:12.495 --> 00:29:13.354
normal for her.

00:29:14.094 --> 00:29:14.354
Sure.

00:29:14.404 --> 00:29:16.754
But 10 months away from
her father is not normal.

00:29:17.084 --> 00:29:19.304
And then, and then
I'd have to do two

00:29:19.304 --> 00:29:21.885
weeks quarantine with
a three-year-old in

00:29:21.885 --> 00:29:24.584
a hotel, which just
is also not normal.

00:29:24.584 --> 00:29:27.465
So, um, this is a time
where I've definitely put

00:29:27.465 --> 00:29:29.445
her and my family first.

00:29:29.564 --> 00:29:32.145
And, um, and I don't
mind cause I stay busy

00:29:32.145 --> 00:29:35.685
with work and we, we do
live in the country here.

00:29:35.685 --> 00:29:38.895
So there's lots to
do, but, um, I don't

00:29:38.895 --> 00:29:40.485
know how much more of
it I can take Travis.

00:29:40.485 --> 00:29:42.165
It starts to weigh
on your mental.

00:29:42.735 --> 00:29:44.985
I mean, there was, there
was, it was just on

00:29:44.985 --> 00:29:46.004
the news the other day.

00:29:46.034 --> 00:29:48.675
There is a remote
community of Aboriginal

00:29:48.675 --> 00:29:52.294
people who called to
say, we can't get food.

00:29:52.885 --> 00:29:54.540
And the government,
whoever they'd

00:29:54.540 --> 00:29:57.120
calledhad said call
Uber eats, they're in

00:29:57.120 --> 00:29:59.250
the middle of nowhere.

00:29:59.679 --> 00:30:02.159
So somebody went out
and shot a kangaroo

00:30:02.159 --> 00:30:03.419
to feed the community.

00:30:03.870 --> 00:30:05.790
And they were told by
the government that

00:30:05.790 --> 00:30:06.480
that had to stop.

00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.340
I think w they must've
been either selling it

00:30:08.340 --> 00:30:10.860
or give at, there was
something that broke

00:30:10.860 --> 00:30:14.610
the law about wild meat,
that it wasn't fit that

00:30:14.610 --> 00:30:17.340
wild game meat wasn't fit
for human consumption.

00:30:18.149 --> 00:30:20.220
So if that doesn't
start to drive a person

00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:22.429
a little bit mental, I
don't know what, what

00:30:22.429 --> 00:30:26.220
will, so I'm hanging on,
but I probably have about

00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:28.169
two months in me before
I start to crack I think.

00:30:29.129 --> 00:30:31.439
I tell ya, you know, I,
I did a podcast a couple

00:30:31.439 --> 00:30:34.500
of days ago with a, a
fellow super nice guy,

00:30:34.860 --> 00:30:39.179
uh, ex British Special
Forces, Commando, uh,

00:30:39.210 --> 00:30:42.990
intelligence, um, worked
as a spy and corporate

00:30:42.990 --> 00:30:46.429
spy and a really
interesting backstory.

00:30:47.100 --> 00:30:50.820
You know, he was
talking about his

00:30:50.820 --> 00:30:53.189
concern being the way
that the information

00:30:53.189 --> 00:30:55.470
is being disseminated
and how discussion

00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:58.409
around, whether it be
lockdowns or passports

00:30:58.409 --> 00:31:01.800
or COVID in general is
not being permitted.

00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:03.929
And he says, you
know, from a military

00:31:03.929 --> 00:31:06.480
intelligence standpoint,
there's a lot of things

00:31:06.510 --> 00:31:10.830
that are raising his
concern because they're

00:31:10.830 --> 00:31:13.050
very similar to what
countries will do to

00:31:13.050 --> 00:31:16.140
third world countries
in order to, to,

00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:18.780
to feed information
or misinformation.

00:31:19.290 --> 00:31:20.790
He says, I don't
have the answers.

00:31:20.790 --> 00:31:21.900
I don't know what
the answers are.

00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:24.660
I don't think anybody
on the internet is going

00:31:24.660 --> 00:31:27.150
to have the answers
for you, but the fact

00:31:27.150 --> 00:31:30.120
that the conversation
is so stifled without

00:31:30.120 --> 00:31:33.660
somebody being called,
uh, an anti-vaxxer

00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:38.040
or, um, flat earth or
whatever it might be,

00:31:38.370 --> 00:31:41.910
he says that's a very,
very concerning thing

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:43.050
from his standpoint.

00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:44.520
I don't know.

00:31:44.820 --> 00:31:48.330
It's um, it is getting
a little bit, uh,

00:31:48.360 --> 00:31:50.310
disconcerning when
I, when I look at

00:31:50.310 --> 00:31:51.060
what's going on.

00:31:52.110 --> 00:31:52.410
Yep.

00:31:52.470 --> 00:31:54.900
And that that's, I just
taking it all in right

00:31:54.900 --> 00:31:57.510
now, just learning,
just watching it all,

00:31:57.510 --> 00:32:00.180
learning, trying to keep
business afloat, trying

00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:03.660
to raise a daughter,
trying to stay sane and

00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:05.190
just listening to it all.

00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:06.960
So it'll be very
interesting.

00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:08.070
I think the next
two months are going

00:32:08.070 --> 00:32:08.730
to be very telling.

00:32:10.080 --> 00:32:11.040
Why the next few months.

00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:13.980
I think that September,
middle of September

00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:16.620
is going to be a very
telling time in Canada.

00:32:17.460 --> 00:32:19.980
So I'm curious to see
how that unrolls, I

00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:21.750
think that from what
I've seen anyway, it

00:32:21.750 --> 00:32:24.090
looks like cases are
ramping up in America.

00:32:24.210 --> 00:32:26.580
And I think that that's
going to bring about

00:32:26.580 --> 00:32:28.080
some policy that is
probably going to

00:32:28.080 --> 00:32:28.950
upset some people.

00:32:29.190 --> 00:32:31.530
And I know that Australia
is at its breaking

00:32:31.530 --> 00:32:32.460
point right now.

00:32:32.970 --> 00:32:35.310
Um, and, and this
lockdown is also

00:32:35.310 --> 00:32:39.000
set to end in at the
end of September.

00:32:39.060 --> 00:32:41.640
And so if that doesn't
happen and it extends

00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:43.410
into October, it's
all just going to

00:32:43.410 --> 00:32:44.040
be a big mashup.

00:32:44.470 --> 00:32:47.264
So I'm just, I think the
next realistically is

00:32:47.264 --> 00:32:49.365
probably the next month,
but I always like to

00:32:49.365 --> 00:32:50.264
give myself some padding.

00:32:50.294 --> 00:32:51.435
So I'm going to
say two months.

00:32:51.945 --> 00:32:53.925
Two months, I think
you're probably onto

00:32:53.925 --> 00:32:54.585
something there.

00:32:54.645 --> 00:32:56.655
I think as we take a
look at the, uh, the

00:32:56.655 --> 00:32:59.385
numbers and the trends
that we've seen in the

00:32:59.385 --> 00:33:02.925
past, uh, you're going
to start seeing in areas

00:33:02.925 --> 00:33:05.925
where they, they figure
there's no issue or

00:33:06.105 --> 00:33:07.575
issues starting to arise.

00:33:07.784 --> 00:33:07.905
Yep.

00:33:08.085 --> 00:33:10.065
So we'll just see what
happens, but, um, but

00:33:10.065 --> 00:33:11.565
yeah, the work is keeping
and that's one of the

00:33:11.565 --> 00:33:13.455
other reasons why I want
to continue to work.

00:33:14.085 --> 00:33:16.754
I go to work every
day on my, on my work.

00:33:16.754 --> 00:33:19.605
I have an online
company and I really

00:33:19.605 --> 00:33:22.185
genuinely love the
people I work with.

00:33:22.485 --> 00:33:24.645
And I'm a huge
proponent and fan

00:33:24.645 --> 00:33:25.544
of online learning.

00:33:25.544 --> 00:33:26.415
I use it for everything.

00:33:26.415 --> 00:33:26.835
I use it.

00:33:27.135 --> 00:33:29.625
I, I spent a fortune
on online learning

00:33:29.625 --> 00:33:32.145
from gardening to
taking classes on

00:33:32.145 --> 00:33:34.365
cryptocurrency and
understanding investing.

00:33:34.665 --> 00:33:36.825
I just love investing
in online education.

00:33:36.915 --> 00:33:39.405
And so I get to go to
work everyday with an

00:33:39.405 --> 00:33:42.945
amazing community and
create online content

00:33:42.945 --> 00:33:45.675
to help myself and
others really be able

00:33:45.675 --> 00:33:47.585
to thrive in certain
outdoor scenario's.

00:33:47.605 --> 00:33:50.415
So for me right now work,
if I didn't have work

00:33:50.415 --> 00:33:53.175
right now, I would be
going, I think a little

00:33:53.175 --> 00:33:54.004
bit out of my mind.

00:33:55.415 --> 00:33:56.175
Fair enough.

00:33:56.655 --> 00:33:58.245
Well, maybe I'll leave
the COVID stuff for a

00:33:58.245 --> 00:34:02.835
little bit, but when this
one comes out in a few

00:34:02.835 --> 00:34:05.715
weeks after it's been
recorded here, we'll,

00:34:05.715 --> 00:34:08.085
uh, we'll be closer
to that a one month,

00:34:08.114 --> 00:34:09.105
two month period here.

00:34:09.154 --> 00:34:10.275
It'll be
interesting to see.

00:34:10.485 --> 00:34:11.145
Indeed.

00:34:12.554 --> 00:34:12.915
Okay.

00:34:12.915 --> 00:34:15.810
What's your
next question?

00:34:16.950 --> 00:34:17.700
I got it right here.

00:34:18.630 --> 00:34:20.550
You're a role model
for a lot of people.

00:34:20.820 --> 00:34:25.890
You are followed
by 125,000 people

00:34:25.890 --> 00:34:26.790
on Instagram.

00:34:26.970 --> 00:34:29.460
You've got people
following you in your

00:34:29.460 --> 00:34:31.800
training programs,
through social

00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:33.870
media, through TV.

00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:37.220
Do you see yourself
as a role model.

00:34:37.890 --> 00:34:38.330
No.

00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:38.490
And.

00:34:38.910 --> 00:34:39.240
Sorry.

00:34:39.410 --> 00:34:39.690
Does it.

00:34:39.690 --> 00:34:40.250
Didn't mean to
cut you off.

00:34:40.250 --> 00:34:41.970
Does it shape how
you behave and

00:34:41.970 --> 00:34:42.840
present yourself?

00:34:43.410 --> 00:34:44.190
Yes and no.

00:34:44.220 --> 00:34:47.280
So, um, I don't think
that that social

00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:49.800
media following really
carries any merit

00:34:49.950 --> 00:34:52.440
and I have a number
of reasons on that.

00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:54.180
I mean, I'm sure when
people first started

00:34:54.180 --> 00:34:55.740
following me on social
media, it's because

00:34:55.740 --> 00:34:57.630
I was a woman who
fished that doesn't

00:34:57.630 --> 00:34:59.280
make me, it doesn't
make me a role model.

00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.100
It just makes me a
woman who fishes.

00:35:02.700 --> 00:35:04.740
Um, you know, more
recently I've had a

00:35:04.740 --> 00:35:06.450
lot of outdoor parents
follow me because

00:35:06.450 --> 00:35:08.040
they want to see how
to navigate that with

00:35:08.040 --> 00:35:08.880
their child outdoors.

00:35:09.390 --> 00:35:11.190
Does that make
me a role model?

00:35:11.220 --> 00:35:12.960
No, I'd say it makes
me a pretty like-minded

00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.030
outdoor parent and it
makes us a community.

00:35:15.600 --> 00:35:19.770
Uh, now when it comes to
being more responsible,

00:35:21.690 --> 00:35:24.510
as far as being April
Vokey the brand, because

00:35:24.600 --> 00:35:27.150
sometimes I've had to,
you know, call myself

00:35:27.150 --> 00:35:29.010
that because if you're
trying to shop yourself

00:35:29.040 --> 00:35:30.660
for television or you're
trying to shop yourself

00:35:30.660 --> 00:35:32.970
for even teaching
workshops or speaking

00:35:32.970 --> 00:35:35.490
at clubs or, or writing
articles, you know, you

00:35:35.490 --> 00:35:38.820
are selling yourself
that I always knew that

00:35:38.820 --> 00:35:40.110
I came with a level of.

00:35:41.265 --> 00:35:43.335
Um, contention, I
guess some people

00:35:43.335 --> 00:35:46.785
are like, maybe I
had some controversy

00:35:46.785 --> 00:35:48.524
behind me just because
I have been in the

00:35:48.524 --> 00:35:49.455
spotlight for so long.

00:35:49.455 --> 00:35:51.044
I was in the spotlight
when I was younger,

00:35:51.345 --> 00:35:54.645
doing stupid things and
not, not that stupid,

00:35:54.645 --> 00:35:57.314
but you know, just being
one of the first young

00:35:57.314 --> 00:36:00.015
woman on Facebook, as,
as a young, we spoke

00:36:00.015 --> 00:36:01.424
about this when I was
on your show last time.

00:36:01.424 --> 00:36:04.035
You know, it's just
people, don't always

00:36:04.035 --> 00:36:05.895
like you when you're
in your early twenties

00:36:05.895 --> 00:36:07.665
and I can't blame them.

00:36:07.694 --> 00:36:10.875
So, but by moving forward
to now, you know, as

00:36:10.875 --> 00:36:13.575
a woman who is almost
40 and is beyond just

00:36:13.575 --> 00:36:15.404
April Vokey, now I'm
Anchored Outdoors.

00:36:15.404 --> 00:36:17.865
I have a community to run
and a membership to run.

00:36:18.585 --> 00:36:22.125
Now I feel a level of
responsibility because

00:36:22.125 --> 00:36:25.095
now I actually know
who my audience is now.

00:36:25.214 --> 00:36:28.185
My audience, I have
several thousand members

00:36:28.515 --> 00:36:31.185
who are my community
and my people, and

00:36:31.185 --> 00:36:31.904
they're watching me.

00:36:31.904 --> 00:36:33.944
And I do feel a
responsibility, not as

00:36:33.944 --> 00:36:38.415
a role model, but as, as
a part of that community

00:36:38.415 --> 00:36:40.035
or as the moderator
of that community.

00:36:40.035 --> 00:36:40.335
Yes.

00:36:40.335 --> 00:36:42.134
I do feel a level
of responsibility.

00:36:43.694 --> 00:36:44.265
Interesting.

00:36:44.895 --> 00:36:47.205
And of, have you felt
a changed how you act?

00:36:47.995 --> 00:36:50.024
Yeah, I'm not
as controversial

00:36:50.024 --> 00:36:50.745
as I used to be.

00:36:50.745 --> 00:36:54.034
I didn't use to stir the
pot for, for traffic.

00:36:54.154 --> 00:36:55.565
That was never
even a thing then.

00:36:55.845 --> 00:36:59.355
Um, I, I stirred the
pot because for me,

00:36:59.355 --> 00:37:03.345
it made people think,
and that was why

00:37:03.345 --> 00:37:04.154
I stirred the pot.

00:37:04.544 --> 00:37:06.734
But that was also
before I had a podcast.

00:37:07.815 --> 00:37:09.495
And it was before
I had a voice.

00:37:10.095 --> 00:37:12.495
So I had to get my point
across with social media,

00:37:12.675 --> 00:37:13.905
which made you want to
bash your head against

00:37:13.905 --> 00:37:15.195
the wall because people
don't pay attention

00:37:15.195 --> 00:37:18.345
for longer than eight
seconds anyway, or via

00:37:18.375 --> 00:37:21.345
articles, which is always
hard because there's

00:37:21.345 --> 00:37:22.305
always more to the story.

00:37:22.995 --> 00:37:25.245
So now that I found
a voice though, and I

00:37:25.245 --> 00:37:27.555
have a podcast and I
have an avenue and a

00:37:27.555 --> 00:37:30.795
way to have these long
form conversation, it's

00:37:30.795 --> 00:37:33.315
allowed me to be a lot
less controversial and

00:37:33.315 --> 00:37:36.525
a lot less provocative
because I now have time

00:37:36.885 --> 00:37:38.115
to get my point across.

00:37:38.115 --> 00:37:40.665
And I now have time to
let all the words come

00:37:40.665 --> 00:37:41.865
out in the conversation.

00:37:42.375 --> 00:37:45.225
So it has as have I,
has it been my audience

00:37:45.225 --> 00:37:47.625
and the community that's
made me smarten up and be

00:37:47.625 --> 00:37:52.305
less of a shitster, no,
it's having a platform

00:37:52.305 --> 00:37:54.285
to actually have long
form conversation.

00:37:54.285 --> 00:37:56.625
That's allowed me
to settle in to not

00:37:56.625 --> 00:37:58.365
always having to stir
the pot and just let

00:37:58.365 --> 00:38:00.625
the organic long-form.

00:38:01.065 --> 00:38:02.715
I keep saying long-form
conversation, but

00:38:02.715 --> 00:38:03.915
that's because I
think that that's

00:38:03.915 --> 00:38:05.115
what we're missing.

00:38:05.115 --> 00:38:06.945
And I, and I think that
that's what we need to

00:38:06.945 --> 00:38:09.045
really help navigate
through a lot of the

00:38:09.045 --> 00:38:10.395
trying times that
we're having right now.

00:38:11.265 --> 00:38:12.915
I find the desire
for long form is

00:38:12.915 --> 00:38:13.575
more and more.

00:38:13.875 --> 00:38:16.665
You know, when I started
my podcast, my very

00:38:16.665 --> 00:38:20.385
first podcast I ever
truly listened to was

00:38:20.385 --> 00:38:23.175
yours at the MeatEater
episode down in Seattle.

00:38:23.175 --> 00:38:25.365
I think that
was, uh, oh geez.

00:38:25.395 --> 00:38:25.685
How long?

00:38:25.735 --> 00:38:30.595
That was the number of
years ago where i, I

00:38:30.615 --> 00:38:33.765
had no time or patience
for, uh, for podcasts.

00:38:33.825 --> 00:38:37.095
I consume most of my
information by reading

00:38:37.095 --> 00:38:40.005
or through YouTube and
with my office being

00:38:40.005 --> 00:38:41.085
a 10 minute walk away.

00:38:41.115 --> 00:38:44.355
And my studio being a
10 minute drive away and

00:38:44.355 --> 00:38:47.295
my home office, who's
got time to listen to a

00:38:47.295 --> 00:38:51.645
podcast, but I'm finding
more and more people

00:38:51.645 --> 00:38:55.305
are growing tired of
the quick clickbait,

00:38:55.665 --> 00:38:57.585
old clickbait that
used to work doesn't.

00:38:57.975 --> 00:39:00.045
People are seeking,
I think they're

00:39:00.045 --> 00:39:01.695
seeking emotion.

00:39:02.085 --> 00:39:06.525
They're seeking some sort
of a, um, an intellectual

00:39:06.555 --> 00:39:09.975
or emotional connection
to whatever it might be

00:39:09.975 --> 00:39:10.875
that they're consuming.

00:39:10.904 --> 00:39:12.134
And I find that
on a greater and

00:39:12.134 --> 00:39:12.825
greater basis.

00:39:12.825 --> 00:39:15.075
And I don't know if
that's just because

00:39:15.255 --> 00:39:17.445
the way that people
interact has been so,

00:39:18.015 --> 00:39:21.795
um, so changed through
basic technology and

00:39:21.795 --> 00:39:23.745
texting and, and,
and all the rest.

00:39:23.895 --> 00:39:28.095
Or if that's a direct
relation to being

00:39:28.095 --> 00:39:31.455
locked down for so long
and people just, they

00:39:31.455 --> 00:39:34.515
want to, they want to
feel something real.

00:39:34.515 --> 00:39:36.795
And I, I, I'm getting
so many people

00:39:36.795 --> 00:39:38.924
commenting and saying,
Travis, you're longer,

00:39:38.955 --> 00:39:39.645
the longer you go.

00:39:39.645 --> 00:39:41.415
Cause I used to keep
these around 40 minutes.

00:39:41.865 --> 00:39:43.605
I seem to remember
somebody telling me 40

00:39:43.605 --> 00:39:45.674
minutes is about the,
uh, the timeframe, the

00:39:45.674 --> 00:39:47.595
key frame that you want
to keep your podcasts.

00:39:48.045 --> 00:39:49.515
And I thought,
okay, 40 minutes to

00:39:49.515 --> 00:39:50.564
an hour thats max.

00:39:50.924 --> 00:39:53.715
Now um, I'll just,
I'll let them go.

00:39:53.715 --> 00:39:55.365
And we'll see where it
goes and people seem

00:39:55.365 --> 00:39:56.964
to be enjoying that.

00:39:57.524 --> 00:39:57.694
Yeah.

00:39:57.694 --> 00:39:59.220
And I think that they've
always enjoyed it

00:39:59.250 --> 00:40:00.480
even before lockdown.

00:40:00.510 --> 00:40:03.780
I know my season, I think
I'm in season seven and

00:40:03.780 --> 00:40:06.000
they've always gone on
and on and, you know,

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:09.030
sometimes maybe they
drone on, but I really

00:40:09.030 --> 00:40:11.730
do believe that it's
the one way that we can

00:40:11.730 --> 00:40:13.620
really truly get the
whole story these days,

00:40:13.620 --> 00:40:15.780
because where else are
you going to get it?

00:40:15.810 --> 00:40:16.890
I mean, I've worked
in television.

00:40:16.890 --> 00:40:19.920
I assure you that is,
that don't even get

00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:20.670
me started on that.

00:40:20.670 --> 00:40:22.530
But the amount of stuff
that hits the editing

00:40:22.530 --> 00:40:24.930
floor that you never
see, um, you know,

00:40:24.930 --> 00:40:26.550
trying to work around
commercial breaks

00:40:26.640 --> 00:40:28.950
also clickbait, not
necessarily to click, but

00:40:28.950 --> 00:40:29.880
to keep you tuning in.

00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:30.990
So you don't
change a channel.

00:40:31.530 --> 00:40:34.290
Um, just, I mean,
clickbait is sums it up

00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:36.990
for so many of these,
of these platforms,

00:40:36.990 --> 00:40:38.760
whether it's social
media, whether it's

00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:40.440
a news article that
you're reading, whether

00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:43.620
it's television, but
podcasts are, they seem

00:40:43.620 --> 00:40:48.180
to be our last form
of this sort of, you

00:40:48.180 --> 00:40:53.070
know, unedited, truly
authentic conversation.

00:40:53.190 --> 00:40:55.500
So, and that brings you
back to my initial point.

00:40:55.500 --> 00:40:59.100
I've seen a lot of my
peers start to feel

00:40:59.100 --> 00:41:01.350
like they have to be
less provocative in the

00:41:01.350 --> 00:41:03.420
way of stirring the pot
and getting people all

00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:04.770
riled up for clickbait.

00:41:05.430 --> 00:41:06.810
I mean, there was a
time when I used to,

00:41:06.810 --> 00:41:09.180
if I wanted to get
people on board for the

00:41:09.180 --> 00:41:14.100
conservation, um, project
or a conservation focus,

00:41:14.520 --> 00:41:16.410
I would try to post
a picture of myself.

00:41:17.565 --> 00:41:19.455
I've never been like a
bikini babe, but I would

00:41:19.455 --> 00:41:21.135
try to post a picture
of myself that would get

00:41:21.135 --> 00:41:22.575
people to look like if
you're scrolling, you're

00:41:22.575 --> 00:41:24.495
going to look, whether
it's to hate me or to

00:41:24.495 --> 00:41:27.555
love me, I needed you to
stop, but I needed you to

00:41:27.555 --> 00:41:31.545
stop because I needed you
to read the caption and

00:41:31.545 --> 00:41:33.705
then read the comments,
which were always

00:41:33.705 --> 00:41:34.485
about the conservation.

00:41:34.485 --> 00:41:34.635
Right.

00:41:34.635 --> 00:41:36.285
But I needed that
clickbait to stop you.

00:41:36.945 --> 00:41:38.985
I know myself and a lot
of peers have stopped

00:41:38.985 --> 00:41:40.965
needing to clickbait
because we just,

00:41:40.995 --> 00:41:42.765
they call me now, the
biologist called me.

00:41:42.765 --> 00:41:44.775
I've had government
call me and say time

00:41:44.775 --> 00:41:45.915
to hop on a podcast.

00:41:46.425 --> 00:41:48.555
So that is very
refreshing that we no

00:41:48.555 --> 00:41:51.945
longer have to, you
know, stoop to our

00:41:51.945 --> 00:41:54.195
hot photos of us being
blonde in our twenties.

00:41:54.405 --> 00:41:57.975
Cause we know that we can
just hop on a podcast and

00:41:57.975 --> 00:42:00.435
people will be generally
quite receptive to it.

00:42:01.965 --> 00:42:04.095
But you're at your
place right now because

00:42:04.095 --> 00:42:05.865
you've taken that
route in the past.

00:42:06.045 --> 00:42:07.155
Love it, hate it.

00:42:07.365 --> 00:42:09.135
People for it,
against it.

00:42:10.245 --> 00:42:12.675
Would you change how
you got to where you

00:42:12.675 --> 00:42:13.695
currently are now?

00:42:13.725 --> 00:42:14.464
Or do you think that.

00:42:14.464 --> 00:42:14.544
No.

00:42:15.845 --> 00:42:20.055
It still is, is a path
that, is one that you'd

00:42:20.055 --> 00:42:20.955
recommend to others?

00:42:21.225 --> 00:42:23.505
Oh, as far as, um,
clickbaiting yourself.

00:42:23.925 --> 00:42:24.285
Right.

00:42:26.025 --> 00:42:27.735
I don't think it's
necessary anymore.

00:42:27.765 --> 00:42:29.355
I mean, I mean, maybe
it is for someone who

00:42:29.355 --> 00:42:31.125
doesn't have a platform
like this or doesn't have

00:42:31.125 --> 00:42:33.225
a podcast, maybe it is.

00:42:33.225 --> 00:42:36.345
I think that there
are always ways that

00:42:36.345 --> 00:42:38.025
you can do it that are
still modest and humble.

00:42:38.025 --> 00:42:39.705
I was like, I wouldn't,
I wouldn't suggest

00:42:39.705 --> 00:42:41.835
that you take off
your pants and post a

00:42:41.835 --> 00:42:42.634
picture of your bum.

00:42:43.215 --> 00:42:46.425
Which I see people do,
um, or, you know, crazy

00:42:46.425 --> 00:42:48.195
twerking moves to get
people to stop scrolling.

00:42:48.205 --> 00:42:50.895
I think that there are a
number of, of wholesome

00:42:50.895 --> 00:42:52.095
ways that you can do it.

00:42:52.095 --> 00:42:53.865
And I would like to just
preface this by saying

00:42:53.865 --> 00:42:55.965
what, or go back and
say, when I was posting

00:42:55.965 --> 00:42:58.245
pictures for clickbait,
I mean, what was

00:42:58.245 --> 00:43:01.725
considered provocative
would be me in a pink

00:43:01.725 --> 00:43:06.495
cardigan with a pink
hat on with blonde hair.

00:43:06.735 --> 00:43:08.055
I wasn't doing anything.

00:43:08.055 --> 00:43:10.945
I was just
different, looking.

00:43:11.065 --> 00:43:11.615
Right.

00:43:11.755 --> 00:43:14.265
You know, or I had God
forbid back then mascara

00:43:14.265 --> 00:43:16.155
on, which was a really
big deal back then.

00:43:16.575 --> 00:43:18.345
Um, so it would, you
know, stop people

00:43:18.345 --> 00:43:19.515
because who is she?

00:43:19.515 --> 00:43:21.075
Why is she fishing
wearing makeup?

00:43:21.105 --> 00:43:22.935
It's not a big deal now,
but back then it was.

00:43:23.325 --> 00:43:24.585
And so, yes.

00:43:24.615 --> 00:43:26.925
Um, you know what I
would, I change that.

00:43:26.925 --> 00:43:27.705
Absolutely not.

00:43:27.705 --> 00:43:29.085
That's exactly who
I was back then.

00:43:29.085 --> 00:43:30.765
It's not like I
put all that stuff

00:43:30.765 --> 00:43:32.295
on or dyed my hair
blonde to go fishing.

00:43:32.295 --> 00:43:34.715
I was, as we've discussed
before I was caught,

00:43:34.725 --> 00:43:35.925
you know, serving,
I was a cocktail

00:43:35.925 --> 00:43:36.645
server and a casino.

00:43:36.645 --> 00:43:37.505
That's just what
I look like.

00:43:37.505 --> 00:43:37.615
Right.

00:43:38.185 --> 00:43:39.825
Um, so no, I wouldn't
change any of that.

00:43:39.855 --> 00:43:42.045
I, I wouldn't
change a thing.

00:43:43.425 --> 00:43:44.655
But what would you
recommend to other

00:43:44.655 --> 00:43:46.695
people at via path
that you would take?

00:43:47.715 --> 00:43:48.495
Yes.

00:43:48.825 --> 00:43:51.055
No, both, depends
what it is.

00:43:51.055 --> 00:43:51.545
Yeah, okay.

00:43:51.785 --> 00:43:55.125
So, you know, if you're,
if you're a young, if

00:43:55.125 --> 00:43:58.185
you're a young babe,
man or woman, right.

00:43:58.215 --> 00:44:00.915
And you've got a photo
of yourself and you

00:44:00.915 --> 00:44:02.625
think then you've got a
message that you really

00:44:02.625 --> 00:44:03.705
need to get out like now.

00:44:04.515 --> 00:44:06.375
And you think that
posting that photo, let's

00:44:06.375 --> 00:44:07.185
just talk social media.

00:44:07.185 --> 00:44:07.845
Cause it's easy.

00:44:08.065 --> 00:44:08.154
Sure.

00:44:08.335 --> 00:44:09.645
That posting, that
photo is going to stop

00:44:09.645 --> 00:44:11.895
people right away and
somehow drive them to

00:44:11.895 --> 00:44:15.075
that petition link or
to that, that, that PDF

00:44:15.075 --> 00:44:16.965
or whatever it is that
you need to get them to.

00:44:17.325 --> 00:44:18.285
And it's
wholesome enough.

00:44:18.315 --> 00:44:21.405
I mean, but it's makes
people stop then yes.

00:44:21.585 --> 00:44:23.745
But sometimes the
best option is to

00:44:23.745 --> 00:44:25.425
post a picture of
a Steelheads face.

00:44:25.455 --> 00:44:26.265
Maybe that's,
what's going to

00:44:26.265 --> 00:44:26.835
get them to stop.

00:44:26.835 --> 00:44:29.145
So read your audience
and do what you have to

00:44:29.145 --> 00:44:32.415
do to get them to stop
within, within reason.

00:44:32.445 --> 00:44:34.785
So I, would I suggest
people to do what I

00:44:34.785 --> 00:44:36.795
did back then, as far
as being wholesome,

00:44:36.825 --> 00:44:39.015
but choosing a photo
that made people stop.

00:44:39.015 --> 00:44:39.405
Sure.

00:44:39.585 --> 00:44:40.815
Would I suggest you
take your clothes

00:44:40.815 --> 00:44:43.095
off, uh, and violate
your own integrity?

00:44:43.365 --> 00:44:44.655
No, definitely not.

00:44:44.715 --> 00:44:44.985
Right.

00:44:46.755 --> 00:44:47.685
What about you?

00:44:48.255 --> 00:44:51.855
Have you been in a
situation where, because

00:44:51.885 --> 00:44:54.675
listen, all business
owners get in a situation

00:44:54.825 --> 00:44:57.495
where they need to
drive traffic and we go

00:44:57.495 --> 00:44:58.965
through all the things
in our heads, right?

00:44:58.965 --> 00:45:00.465
It's like, okay, if
we're not going to

00:45:00.465 --> 00:45:02.895
pimp ourselves out,
are we going to team

00:45:02.895 --> 00:45:04.005
up with an influencer?

00:45:04.875 --> 00:45:06.615
Are we going to team
up with another brand?

00:45:07.065 --> 00:45:09.015
Are we going to try
to be controversial?

00:45:09.165 --> 00:45:10.965
Are we going to work
with this organization?

00:45:11.175 --> 00:45:13.035
Are we going to step on
the side of politics?

00:45:13.095 --> 00:45:14.955
Are we not going to step
on this side of politics?

00:45:15.255 --> 00:45:17.895
Have you been in a
situation yet, where

00:45:17.895 --> 00:45:20.355
you felt like you had
to drive yourself to

00:45:20.355 --> 00:45:24.105
one of those factors to
get your point across?

00:45:25.305 --> 00:45:29.685
No, I haven't actually
had a situation where I

00:45:29.685 --> 00:45:38.160
have had to, uh, where
I've had to really

00:45:38.160 --> 00:45:41.100
try to drive myself
in a way that might

00:45:41.100 --> 00:45:43.259
be contrary to how I
normally would do it.

00:45:43.770 --> 00:45:49.020
I have actually found
myself in more situations

00:45:49.020 --> 00:45:52.529
where I'll stubbornly
do the opposite, where

00:45:53.430 --> 00:45:56.549
people will ask for
certain things to be

00:45:56.549 --> 00:46:01.860
able to, uh, in order,
certain contracts that

00:46:01.860 --> 00:46:03.960
we've come up with and
they want to see a, B

00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:06.720
and C, I guess, working
outside of the TV world.

00:46:06.779 --> 00:46:09.900
We, like in the Hollywood
world, which I've done

00:46:09.900 --> 00:46:11.940
a little bit of work
with some people in,

00:46:12.569 --> 00:46:16.049
in media, man, the
requests can be weird.

00:46:16.080 --> 00:46:20.190
The, um, uh, the
dynamic can be really

00:46:20.190 --> 00:46:22.680
weird and you really,
really have to stick

00:46:22.710 --> 00:46:23.910
close to your guns.

00:46:24.270 --> 00:46:26.790
Uh, if you don't
want to compromise

00:46:26.790 --> 00:46:27.569
your integrity.

00:46:27.930 --> 00:46:31.470
So I haven't found myself
in that many situations

00:46:31.470 --> 00:46:34.380
at all, where I've had,
or I've been asked to do

00:46:34.380 --> 00:46:39.060
something, which would
be contrary to how it

00:46:39.060 --> 00:46:40.350
normally comport myself.

00:46:41.160 --> 00:46:43.400
I, I guess maybe it.

00:46:43.770 --> 00:46:44.840
Here's a
question for you.

00:46:45.070 --> 00:46:47.039
Bear attack, you
have a podcast

00:46:47.589 --> 00:46:48.419
about a bear attack.

00:46:49.410 --> 00:46:49.590
Yep.

00:46:50.220 --> 00:46:52.529
What image, and this is
different because it's

00:46:52.529 --> 00:46:54.000
not trying to drive
traffic to conservation.

00:46:54.230 --> 00:46:54.400
Ahh.

00:46:54.650 --> 00:46:55.850
This is driving
traffic to sales,

00:46:55.890 --> 00:46:56.660
but so what image.

00:46:56.660 --> 00:46:56.899
Okay.

00:46:57.089 --> 00:46:59.490
Do you use to try to
drive traffic to your

00:46:59.490 --> 00:47:00.580
bear attack podcast?

00:47:01.310 --> 00:47:03.225
That is a good question.

00:47:03.465 --> 00:47:06.165
So when we start talking
about thumbnails for

00:47:06.165 --> 00:47:11.025
the, uh, uh, let's say
on, on YouTube, or I did

00:47:11.025 --> 00:47:14.985
a, I've done, uh, Colin
Dowler attacked by a

00:47:14.985 --> 00:47:16.305
bear, put an image up.

00:47:16.335 --> 00:47:17.955
It was a picture
of me and Colin

00:47:18.045 --> 00:47:19.935
and we're standing
beside each other on

00:47:19.935 --> 00:47:21.075
a bit of an incline.

00:47:21.075 --> 00:47:24.924
And, uh, I mean the
guy I'm 6'6", 250.

00:47:24.945 --> 00:47:27.785
And I mean, I, I put
him up on an incline

00:47:27.785 --> 00:47:30.075
beside me and I still
look like Sasquatch,

00:47:30.075 --> 00:47:30.735
right beside him.

00:47:30.735 --> 00:47:33.465
I mean, this guy is
a smaller fellow.

00:47:33.465 --> 00:47:36.735
I think he weigh's
125 pounds and that's

00:47:36.735 --> 00:47:37.605
his fightin' weight.

00:47:38.385 --> 00:47:41.115
And, um, mind you,
the guy fought off

00:47:41.115 --> 00:47:41.895
a grizzly bear.

00:47:42.345 --> 00:47:44.025
And so I thought this
is a great picture,

00:47:44.055 --> 00:47:46.485
throw this thing up and
it just wasn't getting

00:47:46.545 --> 00:47:47.295
the traction I want.

00:47:47.295 --> 00:47:49.215
So, you know, what's a
picture up right now, a

00:47:49.215 --> 00:47:52.735
great big old snarling
grizzly bear because

00:47:52.735 --> 00:47:54.645
people will look at this
and say whoa, look at

00:47:54.645 --> 00:47:55.815
that scary grizzly bear.

00:47:55.815 --> 00:47:57.075
Maybe I should
listen to this.

00:47:57.165 --> 00:48:00.585
So yes, I can definitely
see where you're going on

00:48:00.585 --> 00:48:03.465
that one in the same way
that a, I did a podcast

00:48:03.465 --> 00:48:07.155
with a friend of mine
who did SAS selection,

00:48:07.335 --> 00:48:08.535
twice actually.

00:48:08.535 --> 00:48:13.395
And he was in the British
army and, uh, doing some

00:48:13.455 --> 00:48:14.745
really interesting stuff.

00:48:15.135 --> 00:48:18.735
And although we talked
about everything under

00:48:18.735 --> 00:48:22.035
the sun, I knew that
people will want to

00:48:22.035 --> 00:48:24.945
listen to his story
only if they can see

00:48:24.945 --> 00:48:27.825
the SAS selection to
kind of get them in to

00:48:27.825 --> 00:48:30.195
the, uh, to click on
it, to get in there.

00:48:30.745 --> 00:48:32.939
So, yeah, I can
definitely see where

00:48:32.939 --> 00:48:33.810
that game is played.

00:48:34.229 --> 00:48:37.560
So yeah, so you have,
so you have experienced

00:48:37.560 --> 00:48:39.270
it to some degree and
listen, I've worked with

00:48:39.779 --> 00:48:42.479
various news outlets
or media outlets where

00:48:43.049 --> 00:48:46.049
it kills them at the
core to have to focus

00:48:46.049 --> 00:48:49.770
on things like bear
attacks and other stories

00:48:50.009 --> 00:48:51.390
that drive traffic.

00:48:51.419 --> 00:48:55.529
They want to be covering
other topics that aren't

00:48:55.529 --> 00:48:58.770
clickbait, but they
are for one reason or

00:48:58.770 --> 00:49:01.830
another forced to, you
know, by the powers that

00:49:01.830 --> 00:49:05.310
be, um, focus on things
that will drive traffic.

00:49:05.310 --> 00:49:08.649
And therefore up
their, their views.

00:49:08.669 --> 00:49:11.220
I could see that I, you
know, I guess the closest

00:49:11.220 --> 00:49:13.560
I've ever been to having
people say, I want you

00:49:13.560 --> 00:49:16.740
to do ABC, or I want
you to say something.

00:49:17.250 --> 00:49:19.740
I, I, I do work with
different law firms.

00:49:19.740 --> 00:49:20.669
I do consulting.

00:49:20.669 --> 00:49:23.370
And sometimes some
lawyers will turn around

00:49:23.370 --> 00:49:26.759
and say, well, would
it be fair if you said

00:49:26.939 --> 00:49:29.549
AB and they'll try and
reframe or rephrase

00:49:29.549 --> 00:49:32.160
whatever it is that
you are presenting

00:49:32.160 --> 00:49:33.359
as a court expert.

00:49:34.200 --> 00:49:38.970
And you have to be
very, very, uh, attune

00:49:39.450 --> 00:49:42.569
to exactly what it is
you're saying, and not

00:49:42.569 --> 00:49:44.669
allow other people to
try and manipulate what

00:49:44.669 --> 00:49:45.870
it is that's coming out.

00:49:45.870 --> 00:49:50.080
So there's been some
that have hired me to do

00:49:50.109 --> 00:49:53.984
work for them when, in
fact what you're doing

00:49:53.984 --> 00:49:56.055
is acting as a subject
matter expert for the

00:49:56.055 --> 00:49:57.555
courts and not for them.

00:49:57.794 --> 00:49:59.265
And so you always just
have to keep that in

00:49:59.265 --> 00:50:00.944
the back of your head
and regardless of how

00:50:00.944 --> 00:50:02.055
they want it framed.

00:50:02.055 --> 00:50:04.875
And there's been times
when I've put together

00:50:04.875 --> 00:50:07.665
reports, which are
completely contradictory

00:50:07.875 --> 00:50:10.634
to what it is that I
know their client or

00:50:10.634 --> 00:50:14.415
they wanted to get,
and they've worked up

00:50:14.415 --> 00:50:16.245
and down to try and
get something that

00:50:16.245 --> 00:50:18.944
at least was usable
for their, for their

00:50:18.944 --> 00:50:20.174
case or their defense.

00:50:20.834 --> 00:50:23.984
And you have to be,
you have to be very,

00:50:23.984 --> 00:50:27.105
very sure of what your
messaging is and just

00:50:27.105 --> 00:50:29.415
stick to what your gut
is, because once you

00:50:29.834 --> 00:50:33.765
are influenced to maybe
change or maybe agree,

00:50:33.765 --> 00:50:35.654
or maybe it's a grey
area and you can see

00:50:35.654 --> 00:50:40.185
it from another side,
I personally feel that

00:50:40.605 --> 00:50:43.575
it'll be easier and
easier as you continue

00:50:43.575 --> 00:50:46.004
down to perhaps look at
things from different

00:50:46.004 --> 00:50:48.435
perspectives and be
influenced out of it

00:50:48.435 --> 00:50:49.305
as you go forward.

00:50:49.904 --> 00:50:53.595
So I can see areas
within my spectrum of

00:50:53.595 --> 00:50:57.524
work, where people have
would very much like

00:50:57.524 --> 00:51:00.855
me to say one thing
and I've had to very

00:51:00.855 --> 00:51:04.905
consciously, uh, stick to
what I know to be true.

00:51:05.295 --> 00:51:07.845
And to borrow  from
liberal speak, I have

00:51:07.845 --> 00:51:08.895
to speak my truth.

00:51:09.555 --> 00:51:10.535
Right, that is.

00:51:10.755 --> 00:51:13.245
Which one lawyer
says, don't say that

00:51:13.245 --> 00:51:15.105
because that would
imply that there is

00:51:15.105 --> 00:51:16.035
more than one truth.

00:51:16.235 --> 00:51:17.395
Yeah, yeah, it's true.

00:51:18.685 --> 00:51:19.375
Anyways.

00:51:19.675 --> 00:51:21.945
So what's your a and I
do, and I just want to

00:51:21.945 --> 00:51:23.595
make it very, very clear.

00:51:24.015 --> 00:51:26.955
I have two very separate
mentalities when it comes

00:51:26.955 --> 00:51:29.235
to sales for my company
and marketing for my

00:51:29.235 --> 00:51:32.925
company, versus trying
to urgently get people

00:51:32.925 --> 00:51:34.185
to a conservation issue.

00:51:34.365 --> 00:51:36.105
To me, they're
very, very, very

00:51:36.105 --> 00:51:36.915
separate things.

00:51:37.515 --> 00:51:39.555
Um, because again,
I'm always looking at

00:51:39.555 --> 00:51:43.305
business as a long-term
game, but often with

00:51:43.305 --> 00:51:46.095
con with, with co with
conservation, even though

00:51:46.095 --> 00:51:48.675
it is also long-term
most of the time I'm

00:51:48.675 --> 00:51:51.255
reached out to you with
real urgent matters.

00:51:51.255 --> 00:51:53.115
And so I need to
get people people's

00:51:53.115 --> 00:51:54.405
attention now.

00:51:55.215 --> 00:51:55.635
Right.

00:51:56.295 --> 00:51:56.475
Yeah.

00:51:56.475 --> 00:51:57.735
I like what you say
about business being

00:51:57.735 --> 00:51:58.575
a long-term game.

00:51:58.875 --> 00:52:01.065
I think people who look
at it in the short term,

00:52:01.245 --> 00:52:03.765
and I know some people
like that, I've seen

00:52:03.765 --> 00:52:04.875
them make millions.

00:52:05.235 --> 00:52:07.215
I've seen them lose
millions and I've

00:52:07.215 --> 00:52:09.705
seen them do it
over and over again.

00:52:10.215 --> 00:52:13.065
And, uh, one good friend
of mine, he's built so

00:52:13.065 --> 00:52:15.495
many businesses and he's
made so much money and

00:52:15.495 --> 00:52:16.875
he's lost so much money.

00:52:17.565 --> 00:52:20.895
Uh, he's finally taken
a different approach,

00:52:20.925 --> 00:52:24.495
looked at a long-term
and man he's built

00:52:24.495 --> 00:52:28.354
something that here in
Canada is worth millions.

00:52:28.394 --> 00:52:28.514
Oh good.

00:52:28.514 --> 00:52:30.865
And it was only because
he, he finally took the,

00:52:30.865 --> 00:52:36.584
uh, the approach of, look
at it as a long journey.

00:52:37.185 --> 00:52:39.915
And I mean, even in
what you're building, in

00:52:39.915 --> 00:52:43.185
your training and your,
your members and your

00:52:43.185 --> 00:52:45.915
community that you're
building, I think you're

00:52:45.915 --> 00:52:51.495
like me and perhaps the
desire and the impatient

00:52:51.495 --> 00:52:53.055
ness, can speed up.

00:52:53.055 --> 00:52:55.205
And you're  like, I want
all of this now I want to

00:52:55.205 --> 00:52:57.674
have, I want to be able
to provide the absolute

00:52:57.674 --> 00:52:59.774
best for the community
and have everything that

00:52:59.774 --> 00:53:01.004
they need right now.

00:53:01.935 --> 00:53:04.725
But that process of
growing and building

00:53:05.115 --> 00:53:07.604
is what's going to make
the community strong and

00:53:07.604 --> 00:53:10.395
it's going to be what
builds massive value

00:53:10.964 --> 00:53:12.044
later on down the road.

00:53:12.044 --> 00:53:15.315
So you can look
at retiring or.

00:53:16.295 --> 00:53:17.384
And it being authentic.

00:53:17.384 --> 00:53:20.354
I mean, authenticity is
so important for me when

00:53:20.354 --> 00:53:21.194
it comes to business.

00:53:21.194 --> 00:53:22.814
And I spoke about
this before.

00:53:22.814 --> 00:53:23.955
I don't know if I've
mentioned it to you,

00:53:23.955 --> 00:53:26.865
but prime example of
business and clickbait

00:53:26.895 --> 00:53:28.334
and driving traffic now.

00:53:28.694 --> 00:53:32.924
It would be very easy for
me to hire instructors

00:53:32.924 --> 00:53:35.104
who've got large social
media followings.

00:53:35.845 --> 00:53:35.974
But.

00:53:35.974 --> 00:53:36.064
Sure.

00:53:36.064 --> 00:53:38.700
That would go entirely
against my business

00:53:38.700 --> 00:53:40.830
model of being
authentic and playing,

00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:43.020
you know, long-term
or, or striving for

00:53:43.020 --> 00:53:44.880
longterm, uh, results.

00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:46.980
And, and, and I believe
that authenticity

00:53:46.980 --> 00:53:48.240
and long-term
go hand in hand.

00:53:48.240 --> 00:53:49.410
I think that they're
one in the same,

00:53:49.410 --> 00:53:50.040
in many ways.

00:53:50.430 --> 00:53:53.370
And so I choose to hire
instructors who are the

00:53:53.370 --> 00:53:57.060
best at what they do, not
who have the most eyes.

00:53:57.270 --> 00:54:00.780
Which isn't necessarily a
great sales strategy, but

00:54:00.780 --> 00:54:04.000
it certainly is providing
the best quality and

00:54:04.050 --> 00:54:07.830
the best um, it's the
best thing possible for

00:54:07.890 --> 00:54:09.390
our students and for
our members, because

00:54:09.390 --> 00:54:12.510
they are genuinely
learning from the best.

00:54:13.740 --> 00:54:16.410
You know, I've seen some
courses, I've looked

00:54:16.410 --> 00:54:18.180
at different online
courses that people

00:54:18.180 --> 00:54:22.500
have, and there's a lot
of sizzle and no steak,

00:54:22.530 --> 00:54:25.020
a lot of flash on a buy
now look at, and you

00:54:25.020 --> 00:54:26.760
can upgrade and you'd
get into the course

00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:27.300
and you look at it.

00:54:27.300 --> 00:54:29.850
You're like, why did
I pay for this thing?

00:54:29.880 --> 00:54:31.860
Like, it looked really
flashy, but what's

00:54:31.860 --> 00:54:34.050
the actual value that
I'm getting out of it.

00:54:34.050 --> 00:54:37.020
And that's where I've
just loved what you're

00:54:37.020 --> 00:54:39.270
putting together,
because you care so

00:54:39.270 --> 00:54:43.110
deeply about what the
end user is going to

00:54:43.110 --> 00:54:44.160
experience out of this.

00:54:44.160 --> 00:54:46.260
And you and I we've had
conversations about this

00:54:46.650 --> 00:54:50.430
back and forth, uh, ad
nauseum about the value

00:54:50.430 --> 00:54:54.510
that you're bringing to,
to the end user and to

00:54:54.510 --> 00:54:55.830
the, to the community.

00:54:56.654 --> 00:54:58.605
And if there's something
that you feel just,

00:54:59.024 --> 00:55:00.825
just, wasn't a hundred
percent that it just

00:55:00.825 --> 00:55:03.674
wasn't really on point
you're feeling guilty

00:55:03.674 --> 00:55:05.145
and this, this stuff
you've never even put

00:55:05.145 --> 00:55:06.015
up because of that.

00:55:06.225 --> 00:55:06.404
Yeah.

00:55:06.404 --> 00:55:07.724
So I think that.

00:55:07.724 --> 00:55:08.564
It hurts.

00:55:08.595 --> 00:55:09.935
Totally, and I
think that often.

00:55:09.935 --> 00:55:11.504
It's like money down the
drain and you're like,

00:55:11.544 --> 00:55:13.904
ah, but it's a learning
lesson, you know?

00:55:14.865 --> 00:55:15.165
Yeah.

00:55:15.165 --> 00:55:16.754
But you know, the
long-term money

00:55:16.754 --> 00:55:18.944
down the drain, it's
not there right?

00:55:18.944 --> 00:55:20.865
You put, throw, you,
throw it out now and it

00:55:22.335 --> 00:55:24.254
eats at the integrity
and it eats at what

00:55:24.254 --> 00:55:27.555
people feel that they
can trust out of a brand.

00:55:27.884 --> 00:55:30.884
And so I would
much rather throw,

00:55:31.634 --> 00:55:31.995
I would run.

00:55:32.384 --> 00:55:35.895
For example, we spent,
uh, a good chunk

00:55:35.895 --> 00:55:38.355
of money with an
organization recently

00:55:38.355 --> 00:55:40.305
exploring a route that
we're going with one

00:55:40.305 --> 00:55:43.365
of our endeavors, only
for me to say, no.

00:55:43.634 --> 00:55:47.174
No, deep down, at a core
gut level, this isn't the

00:55:47.174 --> 00:55:48.464
right way for us to go.

00:55:48.975 --> 00:55:52.064
And two weeks later, they
came back with another

00:55:52.064 --> 00:55:54.044
group that they're
bringing in, which is a

00:55:54.044 --> 00:55:55.785
thousand times better.

00:55:55.785 --> 00:55:57.705
It's going to be so
phenomenal for what

00:55:57.705 --> 00:56:02.475
we're doing, even
though I was so like pot

00:56:02.504 --> 00:56:05.895
committed to this one,
being able to say no.

00:56:05.895 --> 00:56:08.384
And looking at that as
an expensive learning

00:56:08.654 --> 00:56:12.285
venture led to in only
two weeks period of

00:56:12.884 --> 00:56:14.825
them coming back with
something that is better,

00:56:14.825 --> 00:56:15.615
is so much better.

00:56:15.615 --> 00:56:19.455
So I, I, I'm a thousand
percent on the same page

00:56:19.455 --> 00:56:20.625
as where you are on that.

00:56:21.855 --> 00:56:24.194
If you don't have what
you feel to be the best

00:56:24.194 --> 00:56:25.385
quality productout there.

00:56:26.085 --> 00:56:28.765
Only the best food
leaves the kitchen right?

00:56:28.935 --> 00:56:30.885
Or, you know, you gotta
add some seasoning to it.

00:56:30.945 --> 00:56:33.465
I read every single
review and I listened

00:56:33.465 --> 00:56:36.105
to every single bit of
feedback that I get.

00:56:36.705 --> 00:56:38.445
And then we just
build on top of it.

00:56:38.445 --> 00:56:40.035
So you felt we were
missing that in

00:56:40.035 --> 00:56:41.895
that course, what
we are adding that

00:56:41.895 --> 00:56:42.525
to that course.

00:56:42.525 --> 00:56:45.855
I mean, just constantly
adding, building,

00:56:46.695 --> 00:56:47.445
making it better.

00:56:47.445 --> 00:56:47.715
Right.

00:56:47.715 --> 00:56:49.965
So that's been a big
part of it too, of, of,

00:56:50.415 --> 00:56:52.995
of this business, for me
having a business that's

00:56:52.995 --> 00:56:56.805
community-based and not
April Vokey based is that

00:56:56.925 --> 00:56:59.985
you have to learn how to
take criticism and not,

00:57:00.315 --> 00:57:01.545
not in a negative way.

00:57:01.605 --> 00:57:03.855
You have to learn
how to take criticism

00:57:03.855 --> 00:57:07.245
and really see it as,
as great feedback.

00:57:07.785 --> 00:57:09.195
Um, and, and I
think that's.

00:57:09.195 --> 00:57:09.295
Yes.

00:57:09.295 --> 00:57:10.845
Been my biggest learning
lesson over the last

00:57:10.845 --> 00:57:12.945
couple of years is I
remember I used to get

00:57:12.945 --> 00:57:15.345
the, you know, web form
inquiry and my stomach

00:57:15.345 --> 00:57:16.545
would go upright.

00:57:16.565 --> 00:57:17.745
What have I
done wrong now?

00:57:17.775 --> 00:57:19.305
Or you get a review
and what have I

00:57:19.305 --> 00:57:20.085
done wrong now?

00:57:20.595 --> 00:57:20.995
Right.

00:57:21.025 --> 00:57:23.085
Or a cancellation, what
have I done wrong now?

00:57:23.115 --> 00:57:24.495
But then you go,
okay, well, hang

00:57:24.495 --> 00:57:25.965
on, they're right.

00:57:26.355 --> 00:57:28.305
I'm going to listen
and I'm going to make

00:57:28.305 --> 00:57:29.985
that better so that
I don't have to feel

00:57:29.985 --> 00:57:32.955
sick again when I get
that web form inquiry.

00:57:32.955 --> 00:57:34.485
So just building upon it.

00:57:34.485 --> 00:57:36.375
But the only way to do
that is you have to have

00:57:36.735 --> 00:57:39.495
a quality product and
person to begin with.

00:57:39.855 --> 00:57:42.795
And so I knew in my gut
and in my heart that

00:57:42.795 --> 00:57:45.045
I was never going to
be able to genuinely

00:57:45.045 --> 00:57:47.835
stand behind courses
that were led by

00:57:47.835 --> 00:57:49.685
people, just because
they have a strong

00:57:49.685 --> 00:57:51.150
social media backing.

00:57:51.690 --> 00:57:54.450
So I've had to focus
on instructors who are

00:57:54.450 --> 00:57:55.710
genuinely the best.

00:57:55.830 --> 00:57:57.450
Some of them don't
even have social media.

00:57:57.720 --> 00:57:59.460
Some of them, when I
say, can you please post

00:57:59.460 --> 00:58:00.690
that your course is live?

00:58:01.080 --> 00:58:02.820
Are like, where
do I do that?

00:58:02.820 --> 00:58:04.260
How do I edit this link?

00:58:05.520 --> 00:58:06.260
So, you know, it's.

00:58:06.260 --> 00:58:06.650
That's hilarious.

00:58:06.720 --> 00:58:08.370
It's trying, but
at least, at least

00:58:08.370 --> 00:58:08.940
it's genuine.

00:58:09.060 --> 00:58:10.710
So anyway, that's,
that's, we probably

00:58:10.710 --> 00:58:12.480
flogged that one,
but, um, yeah.

00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:14.100
That's where I stand
on authenticity

00:58:14.100 --> 00:58:17.280
and, and business
versus conservation.

00:58:17.520 --> 00:58:18.810
And trying to get
your point across

00:58:18.920 --> 00:58:19.960
urgently fast.

00:58:20.860 --> 00:58:21.070
Yeah.

00:58:22.870 --> 00:58:24.540
And it's 189 episodes.

00:58:24.540 --> 00:58:25.320
I'm looking at it here.

00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:26.920
I think you're at
189, almost 190.

00:58:26.920 --> 00:58:28.280
Holy moley.

00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:31.560
For, for you, for your
age, that that's crazy.

00:58:31.680 --> 00:58:34.620
Are you, as I look, as
I look at that number

00:58:34.620 --> 00:58:36.270
of episodes, is there
any part of you that

00:58:36.270 --> 00:58:41.040
says, man, I got to
record another episode

00:58:41.550 --> 00:58:44.310
or are you just like,
I can't, I love it.

00:58:44.340 --> 00:58:46.510
I get, I get to record
another episode.

00:58:47.030 --> 00:58:49.470
Uhm, yeah, no, I think
what it comes down to

00:58:49.470 --> 00:58:51.900
is, oh, I've got an
edit another episode,

00:58:52.410 --> 00:58:54.450
you know, that's
different, but recording.

00:58:54.450 --> 00:58:54.750
No.

00:58:54.750 --> 00:58:56.580
And listen, if I, if
I feel like I'm in an

00:58:56.580 --> 00:58:58.770
anti-social week, I just
don't book any podcasts.

00:58:59.940 --> 00:59:00.210
Right.

00:59:00.210 --> 00:59:03.120
There, I, I know I need
to stick to my schedule.

00:59:03.540 --> 00:59:05.700
Uh, they, all the
gurus say, make sure

00:59:05.700 --> 00:59:07.320
you post the same
day at the same time.

00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:09.240
I don't want to
exhaust myself.

00:59:09.240 --> 00:59:10.180
It's not fair
to my listener.

00:59:10.180 --> 00:59:10.300
Right.

00:59:10.300 --> 00:59:11.220
I mean, to my listener.

00:59:12.195 --> 00:59:13.965
I want my guests to
know I'm genuinely there

00:59:13.965 --> 00:59:16.185
to hear their story
as so know, I'm not

00:59:16.185 --> 00:59:18.255
there yet because the
stories that I'm, that

00:59:18.255 --> 00:59:20.175
I'm listening to are
really, really inspiring.

00:59:20.355 --> 00:59:23.535
My podcast has made
me a better person,

00:59:23.565 --> 00:59:25.395
hands down, every
day of the week.

00:59:26.055 --> 00:59:28.425
Like there's no,
there's no way to grow

00:59:28.425 --> 00:59:30.375
an ego when you're
podcasting some of

00:59:30.375 --> 00:59:31.395
these men and women.

00:59:31.395 --> 00:59:34.005
Because you just, you
can't help, but look

00:59:34.005 --> 00:59:37.665
at yourself after and
think, how can I, how

00:59:37.665 --> 00:59:38.445
can I be like that?

00:59:38.445 --> 00:59:40.215
Or how can I have such
a full life or how can

00:59:40.215 --> 00:59:42.255
I do what they've done?

00:59:42.345 --> 00:59:44.505
You know, they,
they really humble

00:59:44.505 --> 00:59:45.405
me, big time.

00:59:46.965 --> 00:59:49.005
So out of all the
podcasts that you've

00:59:49.005 --> 00:59:51.585
done, you've talked
to so many people.

00:59:51.585 --> 00:59:55.695
Is there one person out
there that you would love

00:59:55.695 --> 00:59:58.695
to have on your podcast,
but you haven't yet?

00:59:59.355 --> 01:00:08.685
Oh, maybe, maybe.

01:00:08.955 --> 01:00:09.585
I don't know.

01:00:09.585 --> 01:00:11.655
I think I've had most
of the P uh, yes.

01:00:11.655 --> 01:00:13.365
I mean, the answer is
yes, for sure, there is.

01:00:13.545 --> 01:00:15.495
And listen, there
are people who don't

01:00:15.495 --> 01:00:16.335
fly fish that I like.

01:00:16.335 --> 01:00:17.894
I'd love to have
Jordan Peterson

01:00:18.255 --> 01:00:19.835
on my podcast and.

01:00:19.835 --> 01:00:20.385
Tell me about it, yes.

01:00:20.385 --> 01:00:21.355
Not for clickbait.

01:00:21.375 --> 01:00:22.935
I mean, I would do
it without recording.

01:00:22.965 --> 01:00:25.155
I just have got so
many questions for him.

01:00:25.155 --> 01:00:27.465
So there are people
outside of fishing.

01:00:27.645 --> 01:00:29.505
Um, there is a woman I'd
really like to get on,

01:00:29.505 --> 01:00:32.445
her name's Diana Rudolf
and she's, uh, this

01:00:32.445 --> 01:00:33.825
amazing Tarpon angler.

01:00:33.825 --> 01:00:37.305
She's very private and
she's one of the best.

01:00:37.305 --> 01:00:39.805
And I would love to pick
her brain about certain

01:00:39.825 --> 01:00:42.825
things, fishing and from
an industry stance, why

01:00:42.825 --> 01:00:44.595
she's chose, chose to
go the route she did.

01:00:44.595 --> 01:00:46.424
She had a baby
later in life, she's

01:00:46.424 --> 01:00:47.565
married to someone
else in the industry.

01:00:47.565 --> 01:00:49.485
All of these things
are very interesting

01:00:49.485 --> 01:00:51.045
to me, but, but no.

01:00:51.045 --> 01:00:54.105
So, so far there's
been a lot of people

01:00:54.285 --> 01:00:56.384
who I didn't realize
that I needed to hear

01:00:56.384 --> 01:00:57.525
their story to grow.

01:00:57.525 --> 01:01:00.735
I mean, um, I interviewed
a man named Ted Jurassic

01:01:01.125 --> 01:01:03.435
on the show, um, and
you know, he walked

01:01:03.435 --> 01:01:06.944
me through life and
concentration camps and

01:01:06.944 --> 01:01:08.595
you know, we're both
in tears in that one.

01:01:08.595 --> 01:01:10.305
And Frank Moore,
you know, he's in

01:01:10.305 --> 01:01:12.194
his nineties and the
most happily married

01:01:12.194 --> 01:01:13.154
man I've ever met.

01:01:13.634 --> 01:01:17.325
And just those two
guys and, and there's

01:01:17.325 --> 01:01:19.485
a few others I've
walked away from those

01:01:19.485 --> 01:01:20.595
episodes different.

01:01:21.255 --> 01:01:22.245
I've walked
away different.

01:01:22.245 --> 01:01:23.384
I was not the same again.

01:01:24.615 --> 01:01:26.295
And you know, it used
to take me having to fly

01:01:26.295 --> 01:01:28.665
to Argentina to have the
sort of transformation

01:01:28.995 --> 01:01:31.335
and to be able to do it
in a two-hour segment

01:01:31.575 --> 01:01:33.255
of going into their home
and sitting with them,

01:01:33.265 --> 01:01:34.185
let's say three hours.

01:01:34.605 --> 01:01:36.645
Of seeing their lives
and walking away three

01:01:36.645 --> 01:01:38.745
hours later, different,
as a different human.

01:01:39.325 --> 01:01:40.215
That's really cool.

01:01:41.505 --> 01:01:44.145
What about this whole
online podcasting?

01:01:44.775 --> 01:01:45.884
Like it, don't like it.

01:01:45.884 --> 01:01:46.605
What are your thoughts?

01:01:47.235 --> 01:01:47.835
Look, it's.

01:01:47.895 --> 01:01:50.685
I like it because I can
get more people that I'm

01:01:50.685 --> 01:01:51.645
really interested in.

01:01:52.275 --> 01:01:55.455
And it's a great
way to, to obviously

01:01:55.455 --> 01:01:57.705
stay connected and,
and meet new people.

01:01:57.735 --> 01:02:00.855
But there's nothing quite
like walking into John

01:02:00.855 --> 01:02:03.115
Geer X home and seeing.

01:02:03.115 --> 01:02:03.425
Right.

01:02:03.585 --> 01:02:06.085
His house and drinking
coffee with them.

01:02:06.384 --> 01:02:10.410
And just going into
his messy desk area,

01:02:10.500 --> 01:02:11.850
you know, hanging
out with his wife,

01:02:12.360 --> 01:02:12.990
that kind of stuff.

01:02:12.990 --> 01:02:15.509
Seeing the deer in his
front yard, that there's

01:02:15.509 --> 01:02:16.410
nothing quite like that.

01:02:16.410 --> 01:02:17.700
And it's, it's the
little thing I hate.

01:02:17.730 --> 01:02:20.009
I hate, I know the
word nuance is used too

01:02:20.009 --> 01:02:22.740
much these days, but
it's all those little

01:02:22.740 --> 01:02:25.799
tiny things, right?

01:02:25.799 --> 01:02:29.040
The awkward silence, the
comfortable silence of

01:02:29.040 --> 01:02:31.290
drinking coffee and not
having to say anything.

01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:32.279
Maybe we have lunch.

01:02:32.310 --> 01:02:34.460
All those little
things to me are

01:02:34.470 --> 01:02:36.360
the, I mean, that's
where the magic is.

01:02:36.660 --> 01:02:38.610
So I think that we
get the job done,

01:02:38.700 --> 01:02:40.890
but I don't know if
it's quite the same.

01:02:42.180 --> 01:02:43.980
You know, I've, I've
had some people who

01:02:43.980 --> 01:02:47.259
were eager to come on as
guests on The Silvercore

01:02:47.279 --> 01:02:50.050
Podcast, but they said
only if it's in person,

01:02:50.600 --> 01:02:53.040
so I'm waiting for
borders to open up so I

01:02:53.040 --> 01:02:55.230
can start traveling to a
few different locations.

01:02:55.230 --> 01:02:56.790
But they say a hundred
percent, the only

01:02:56.790 --> 01:02:58.230
way I'll do it as
if it's in person.

01:02:58.230 --> 01:03:01.440
They say, I don't feel
like I can open up and

01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:04.320
talk to somebody over
a camera or over the

01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:07.110
internet, which I can
totally appreciate.

01:03:07.110 --> 01:03:08.730
I think that's
a learned skill.

01:03:08.790 --> 01:03:10.799
And I think it's,
it's difficult to

01:03:10.799 --> 01:03:12.960
get a temperature
check on the person

01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:15.420
and see where they're
at when, when it's

01:03:15.420 --> 01:03:16.350
through a screen here.

01:03:16.410 --> 01:03:18.810
But I thousand
percent agree it sure

01:03:18.810 --> 01:03:19.799
makes life easier.

01:03:20.009 --> 01:03:21.779
I mean, you don't have
to get, leave the house

01:03:21.779 --> 01:03:24.420
and you can have, you
can have that Argentinian

01:03:24.509 --> 01:03:25.420
podcast, right.

01:03:26.700 --> 01:03:27.180
That's right.

01:03:27.210 --> 01:03:27.750
Exactly.

01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:29.250
There's an energy when
you're in the room.

01:03:30.075 --> 01:03:31.815
And it floats over
all of you, right?

01:03:31.815 --> 01:03:33.555
It's like this pixie
dust and it just

01:03:33.555 --> 01:03:34.035
does something.

01:03:34.075 --> 01:03:34.255
Yes.

01:03:34.255 --> 01:03:35.415
It transfers
back and forth.

01:03:35.415 --> 01:03:37.815
And unfortunately it just
doesn't seem to transmit

01:03:37.815 --> 01:03:39.484
through the screen
quite as well, but.

01:03:40.005 --> 01:03:40.875
Not in the same way.

01:03:41.415 --> 01:03:41.685
Yep.

01:03:41.865 --> 01:03:43.634
So, you know,
swinging, swinging it

01:03:43.634 --> 01:03:44.444
back around at you.

01:03:44.444 --> 01:03:45.435
What about you?

01:03:45.435 --> 01:03:46.455
Who would you have on.

01:03:47.325 --> 01:03:47.865
You know what?

01:03:47.865 --> 01:03:49.815
I met the guy once
I thought he was a

01:03:49.815 --> 01:03:54.285
pretty cool individual,
the chances of them

01:03:54.345 --> 01:03:56.805
ever coming on the
podcast, like slim to

01:03:56.805 --> 01:03:58.275
none, but Bear Grylls.

01:03:58.484 --> 01:04:00.615
I figured Bear Grylls
would be a cool guy to

01:04:00.615 --> 01:04:01.904
have on the podcast.

01:04:01.904 --> 01:04:04.725
The guy has the Guinness
Book of World Records

01:04:04.725 --> 01:04:06.585
for a youngest Brit
to summit Everest.

01:04:06.585 --> 01:04:09.464
He crossed the Atlantic
ocean in a rigid

01:04:09.464 --> 01:04:12.615
inflatable boat from a,
I think it was from Nova

01:04:12.615 --> 01:04:15.734
Scotia over to Ireland
in a, like a little,

01:04:15.825 --> 01:04:17.835
little rigid inflatable
boat with, I think it

01:04:17.835 --> 01:04:18.975
was a three man crew.

01:04:19.335 --> 01:04:21.464
I think he took a
paraglide over top of

01:04:21.525 --> 01:04:25.325
Everest, uh, longest
indoor skydive, like the

01:04:25.335 --> 01:04:29.895
guy's a mental fortitude
and positivity is crazy.

01:04:30.255 --> 01:04:32.295
And I would love
to be able to chat

01:04:32.295 --> 01:04:35.535
with him further in
a podcast scenario.

01:04:35.595 --> 01:04:36.165
I think that.

01:04:36.285 --> 01:04:36.705
Bear are you.

01:04:36.705 --> 01:04:37.535
That would be fun.

01:04:37.535 --> 01:04:37.714
Listening?

01:04:38.095 --> 01:04:39.674
Bear, where you?

01:04:39.674 --> 01:04:40.274
Come on Bear.

01:04:41.174 --> 01:04:44.115
You know what he, you,
you you'd be surprised.

01:04:44.475 --> 01:04:46.095
And that is the great
thing about this digital

01:04:46.095 --> 01:04:47.895
world now is I'm, I
am finding a lot of

01:04:47.895 --> 01:04:49.634
people are agreeing
to do it because it is

01:04:49.634 --> 01:04:51.765
very simple for them
to just hop online.

01:04:51.825 --> 01:04:53.535
So it's worth
reaching out.

01:04:54.825 --> 01:04:56.654
What would you do if
you were disappointed?

01:04:56.745 --> 01:04:58.185
What would you do
if halfway through

01:04:58.185 --> 01:04:58.605
the interview?

01:04:58.605 --> 01:05:00.690
And I've been there,
halfway through the

01:05:00.690 --> 01:05:04.620
interview, you realize,
uh oh, this guy isn't

01:05:04.620 --> 01:05:06.360
what I thought he was.

01:05:06.390 --> 01:05:10.770
Do you, as an
interviewer, take that

01:05:10.770 --> 01:05:12.570
conversation down that
road and start asking

01:05:12.570 --> 01:05:15.780
some tough questions or
do you just play along

01:05:15.780 --> 01:05:19.560
with the bop and the
happy-go-lucky facade?

01:05:19.710 --> 01:05:21.570
What do you do
as an interview?

01:05:21.570 --> 01:05:23.610
Where, where do you
draw the line on your,

01:05:24.150 --> 01:05:27.840
um, on your integrity
as far as, uh, being

01:05:28.770 --> 01:05:31.760
somebody in journalism or
reporting interviewing?

01:05:31.950 --> 01:05:35.370
So in my podcasts
that I do, I've always

01:05:35.370 --> 01:05:38.100
encouraged a two-way
dialogue, but it always

01:05:38.100 --> 01:05:41.940
tends to be more often
me asking questions and

01:05:41.940 --> 01:05:43.050
them answering questions.

01:05:43.050 --> 01:05:44.640
And some people can
take those questions

01:05:44.640 --> 01:05:46.650
and they'll build
a story and they'll

01:05:46.650 --> 01:05:48.840
tell all about it and
they're super engaging.

01:05:48.840 --> 01:05:50.940
And some people will have
the back and forth, but

01:05:51.240 --> 01:05:53.070
more often than not the
people that are coming

01:05:53.070 --> 01:05:55.800
on have never really been
in a situation like this.

01:05:55.800 --> 01:05:57.810
And quite obviously
there'll be some nerves

01:05:57.810 --> 01:05:59.760
and these things that
you have to overcome.

01:05:59.790 --> 01:06:06.000
So, um, I'm, I feel
like I'm still finding

01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:08.730
my voice within The
Silvercore Podcast.

01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:10.750
I specifically called
it The Silvercore

01:06:10.770 --> 01:06:14.640
Podcast because I
wanted to be able to

01:06:14.850 --> 01:06:16.590
talk about anything.

01:06:16.590 --> 01:06:18.510
It's not Silvercore
firearms, it's

01:06:18.510 --> 01:06:19.830
not outdoors.

01:06:19.830 --> 01:06:21.900
It's not, I wanted
to be able to talk

01:06:21.900 --> 01:06:22.800
about whatever it is.

01:06:22.800 --> 01:06:26.025
My ADHD mind kind of
fancied at the moment.

01:06:26.025 --> 01:06:28.425
Cause like you there's,
there's so much

01:06:28.545 --> 01:06:32.115
more to my interest
level than just that

01:06:32.115 --> 01:06:33.225
one singular thing.

01:06:33.945 --> 01:06:38.625
Um, so when I first
started doing these

01:06:38.625 --> 01:06:42.255
podcasts, my major thrust
was, I want to make sure

01:06:42.255 --> 01:06:46.515
that people come on here
and there they've got a

01:06:46.515 --> 01:06:48.525
platform where they can
share their positivity.

01:06:48.615 --> 01:06:50.895
I want to find positive
people who have

01:06:51.105 --> 01:06:54.705
extraordinary experiences
and be able to share

01:06:54.705 --> 01:06:55.905
that in a positive way.

01:06:55.935 --> 01:06:59.415
And sometimes I would
navigate the conversation

01:06:59.415 --> 01:07:01.185
in such a way when
they were pitfalls.

01:07:01.755 --> 01:07:03.855
So they wouldn't fall
down those pitfalls.

01:07:04.905 --> 01:07:07.665
I am learning to shut
my mouth a little

01:07:07.665 --> 01:07:09.465
bit as hard as it is.

01:07:09.705 --> 01:07:11.295
I'm learning to
shut my mouth.

01:07:11.625 --> 01:07:13.425
And if they want
to talk about some

01:07:13.425 --> 01:07:16.155
of these pitfalls
or these areas that

01:07:16.155 --> 01:07:20.475
might be contentious,
to do so, because

01:07:20.925 --> 01:07:22.905
that's what a true
conversation truly is.

01:07:22.965 --> 01:07:24.675
It's not one person
trying to guide them

01:07:24.675 --> 01:07:26.475
through the questions
and through things.

01:07:26.685 --> 01:07:27.915
If they want to bring
something up and

01:07:27.915 --> 01:07:29.505
talk about it and
throw it back at me,

01:07:30.225 --> 01:07:32.325
I am providing them
that opportunity.

01:07:32.325 --> 01:07:34.125
But that's a learned
thing when, when I

01:07:34.125 --> 01:07:36.735
first started, no,
I, I definitely help

01:07:36.765 --> 01:07:38.295
people kind of avoid
certain things.

01:07:38.835 --> 01:07:43.785
Would I push them down
that rabbit hole further?

01:07:45.345 --> 01:07:47.475
Um, I might ask
questions about it if

01:07:47.475 --> 01:07:48.285
they open the door.

01:07:50.340 --> 01:07:51.570
If it's something
they're truly

01:07:51.570 --> 01:07:52.770
uncomfortable about.

01:07:52.890 --> 01:07:56.400
No, I want to be
able to showcase the

01:07:56.400 --> 01:07:57.510
best possible them.

01:07:57.510 --> 01:07:59.550
And I want other people
to know when they come

01:07:59.550 --> 01:08:03.810
in that the best possible
version of them will

01:08:03.810 --> 01:08:05.040
also be showcased.

01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:05.970
Yeah.

01:08:06.030 --> 01:08:07.740
I think if that answers.

01:08:08.250 --> 01:08:08.760
It does.

01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:08.940
Yeah.

01:08:08.940 --> 01:08:10.830
It's a big difference
between the gotcha

01:08:10.860 --> 01:08:12.690
interviews, which I
actually can't stand

01:08:13.380 --> 01:08:17.040
and, and the genuine
two-way conversation,

01:08:17.190 --> 01:08:19.830
you know, it's a
tricky one to navigate.

01:08:19.830 --> 01:08:22.140
It's a balancing act for
sure, because you want

01:08:22.140 --> 01:08:23.430
to lead them through.

01:08:24.300 --> 01:08:25.800
Um, but you, you
also don't want

01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:26.490
to censor them.

01:08:26.520 --> 01:08:26.940
Right.

01:08:28.050 --> 01:08:31.080
So, so that's what,
it's tough to navigate

01:08:31.080 --> 01:08:33.000
that, but no, I think
you do a great job.

01:08:33.030 --> 01:08:34.350
But yeah, sometimes,
and it's not

01:08:34.350 --> 01:08:35.280
necessarily a pitfall.

01:08:35.280 --> 01:08:39.450
I mean, sometimes these
awkward subjects, they're

01:08:39.450 --> 01:08:40.680
there to discuss them.

01:08:40.680 --> 01:08:41.340
I've been there.

01:08:41.340 --> 01:08:44.490
I've been on a show where
I, I def I wanted to talk

01:08:44.490 --> 01:08:47.100
about something awkward
and we did discuss it

01:08:47.130 --> 01:08:49.560
and then he cut the whole
thing out of the podcast.

01:08:50.160 --> 01:08:50.550
But I was there.

01:08:50.550 --> 01:08:51.200
Now I want to
know what that is.

01:08:51.200 --> 01:08:51.840
I was there too.

01:08:52.160 --> 01:08:55.320
It doesn't matter now
this 15 years ago, but,

01:08:55.650 --> 01:08:57.870
or 10, 15 years ago.

01:08:57.870 --> 01:08:58.290
Yeah.

01:08:58.650 --> 01:09:01.530
Um, and looking back
now, maybe he did save

01:09:01.530 --> 01:09:02.970
me a bit, but it was,
it was actually, no,

01:09:02.970 --> 01:09:04.170
he wouldn't have now.

01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:07.620
Nowadays, with us
being honest about

01:09:07.620 --> 01:09:09.390
some of the things
that we've seen in the

01:09:09.390 --> 01:09:11.730
industry and in me too.

01:09:12.240 --> 01:09:14.040
Um, and I, you know,
this is a long time ago.

01:09:15.210 --> 01:09:16.230
I shouldn't have
been censored.

01:09:16.230 --> 01:09:17.520
I should have been able
to have said what I

01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:19.200
said without it being
cut out, I taught I was

01:09:19.200 --> 01:09:21.330
there to talk about it.

01:09:21.359 --> 01:09:21.720
Hmm.

01:09:21.720 --> 01:09:21.790
Yeah.

01:09:22.529 --> 01:09:24.600
So, you know, so
sometimes you have to

01:09:24.600 --> 01:09:26.490
let your guests take
that fall because it's

01:09:26.490 --> 01:09:28.050
not a fall, they're
that's, they're there

01:09:28.050 --> 01:09:28.770
to talk about it.

01:09:29.910 --> 01:09:31.680
Has anyone ever done
a podcast with you?

01:09:31.680 --> 01:09:32.880
And then they turn
around and said, man,

01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:35.070
I wish, I wish I didn't
say certain things.

01:09:35.090 --> 01:09:36.690
I didn't want to have
certain things out there.

01:09:37.350 --> 01:09:37.890
Yes.

01:09:38.010 --> 01:09:38.760
All the time.

01:09:39.060 --> 01:09:41.700
But I say before I
press it, before I press

01:09:41.700 --> 01:09:46.050
record, I say, this is
, don't come to me after to

01:09:46.050 --> 01:09:48.930
ask me to edit anything
out, tell me during the

01:09:48.930 --> 01:09:49.890
recording to take it out.

01:09:50.070 --> 01:09:52.740
And so, no, I haven't had
someone come, come to me

01:09:52.740 --> 01:09:54.810
after they'll they will
ask me during recording,

01:09:54.810 --> 01:09:56.100
hey, that's off record.

01:09:56.100 --> 01:09:56.790
Can you take that out?

01:09:56.790 --> 01:09:58.770
And yes, absolutely, I
just take it right out.

01:09:58.980 --> 01:10:00.540
I've had episodes where
I've cut out a whole

01:10:00.540 --> 01:10:03.480
hour because we'll end
up, you know, going

01:10:03.480 --> 01:10:05.160
down this road of
talking about their

01:10:05.160 --> 01:10:07.080
relationship and how
it ruined their lives.

01:10:07.080 --> 01:10:08.760
And it gets very
emotional and it's not

01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:10.800
necessary to be aired
to the world so that

01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:11.610
stuff just comes out.

01:10:11.750 --> 01:10:12.000
Yeah.

01:10:12.900 --> 01:10:13.200
Right.

01:10:13.890 --> 01:10:14.010
Yeah.

01:10:14.010 --> 01:10:14.700
I can see that.

01:10:14.870 --> 01:10:15.070
Yeah.

01:10:15.540 --> 01:10:16.770
I do a similar thing.

01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:18.660
I say, once it's gone
live and it's going out

01:10:18.660 --> 01:10:19.380
there, it's out there.

01:10:19.500 --> 01:10:22.290
So anytime before
that, let me know.

01:10:22.470 --> 01:10:27.660
Uh, but usually I've
only, we've got one with

01:10:27.660 --> 01:10:29.460
a government organization
that I'll be doing

01:10:29.460 --> 01:10:31.830
shortly and, and they've
asked for full review

01:10:31.830 --> 01:10:32.840
after it's done, which

01:10:32.890 --> 01:10:34.770
.
And it'll be all scripted
anyway, they don't even

01:10:34.770 --> 01:10:35.550
let you ask the question.

01:10:35.850 --> 01:10:37.800
We need you to submit
your questions first.

01:10:38.100 --> 01:10:39.660
Then we need to know
exactly how we're going

01:10:39.660 --> 01:10:40.620
to script our response.

01:10:40.620 --> 01:10:42.660
It's there, the
government interviews

01:10:42.690 --> 01:10:44.740
are the worst.

01:10:44.760 --> 01:10:45.990
I actually won't
take them anymore.

01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:47.340
I won't take them.

01:10:47.500 --> 01:10:47.700
Really?

01:10:47.700 --> 01:10:47.809
Nope.

01:10:48.070 --> 01:10:49.170
If you're going to, if
you're going to come

01:10:49.170 --> 01:10:51.480
on my show and air your
politics and all of your

01:10:51.480 --> 01:10:56.280
total bullshit, you have
to be retired or let me

01:10:56.280 --> 01:10:57.870
sway the conversation
as it's going to go

01:10:57.930 --> 01:11:00.059
because they, they,
they want to script

01:11:00.059 --> 01:11:01.740
and control the whole
conversation down their

01:11:01.740 --> 01:11:03.120
own narrative and no.

01:11:04.030 --> 01:11:04.450
Good luck.

01:11:04.450 --> 01:11:05.700
Good luck with that.

01:11:05.840 --> 01:11:06.070
Yeah.

01:11:06.070 --> 01:11:06.570
Thank you.

01:11:06.570 --> 01:11:07.620
Well, I've got
them to agree with.

01:11:07.650 --> 01:11:11.010
So I, I looked at, I
said, here's the general

01:11:11.010 --> 01:11:12.240
gist of the questions.

01:11:12.240 --> 01:11:14.070
I said, listen to
the previous podcast.

01:11:14.070 --> 01:11:15.630
I'm not here to
play gotcha games.

01:11:15.630 --> 01:11:18.660
I'm not here to, here's
what the intention is.

01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:21.330
I said, but if you
want to have engagement

01:11:21.390 --> 01:11:23.280
and you want people to
listen to what you have

01:11:23.280 --> 01:11:25.380
coming out, you're going
to have to be genuine.

01:11:25.410 --> 01:11:27.210
And that's going to
be, if that's going

01:11:27.210 --> 01:11:30.630
to require not all the
questions ahead of time,

01:11:31.080 --> 01:11:31.769
because I've done that.

01:11:31.769 --> 01:11:34.440
I've I had one group
before and I provided

01:11:34.440 --> 01:11:35.370
all of the questions.

01:11:35.370 --> 01:11:39.240
That person came on,
great guy, a really

01:11:39.240 --> 01:11:41.370
talented individual,
really knowledgeable,

01:11:41.670 --> 01:11:42.630
but very nervous.

01:11:43.110 --> 01:11:44.940
And they wanted to
know what all the

01:11:44.940 --> 01:11:45.780
questions were.

01:11:45.870 --> 01:11:48.690
And we provided basically
a whole list of exactly

01:11:48.690 --> 01:11:49.410
what I'm looking to do.

01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:52.350
That podcast started
and ended in under

01:11:52.350 --> 01:11:57.180
15 minutes, because
they said, they had

01:11:57.180 --> 01:11:59.370
all the answers and
there was no, there

01:11:59.370 --> 01:12:00.540
was no conversation.

01:12:01.080 --> 01:12:03.420
So he came back
afterwards and said,

01:12:03.990 --> 01:12:05.790
how about a story
about A, B and C?

01:12:05.820 --> 01:12:06.690
Oh, I could tell that.

01:12:06.750 --> 01:12:08.610
Or how about a personal
experience about this?

01:12:08.730 --> 01:12:10.050
Oh, I guess I could
expand on that.

01:12:10.995 --> 01:12:13.725
Probably one of the
most, uh, time-intensive

01:12:13.725 --> 01:12:16.455
editing processes to
try and seamlessly

01:12:16.455 --> 01:12:18.885
weave all that back
in, into things.

01:12:19.245 --> 01:12:21.105
But we're able to do
that showcase in a

01:12:21.105 --> 01:12:24.675
great light and it
taught me, I am the

01:12:24.685 --> 01:12:25.485
taught me a few things.

01:12:26.205 --> 01:12:27.855
Don't talk to the person
too much before you

01:12:27.855 --> 01:12:29.445
get into a podcast,
because all the good

01:12:29.445 --> 01:12:31.275
stuff is talked about
before and afterwards.

01:12:31.455 --> 01:12:33.615
Never, never, that's
like rule number one,

01:12:33.675 --> 01:12:35.145
don't ask any questions.

01:12:35.145 --> 01:12:36.465
Even if you look super
rude while you're

01:12:36.465 --> 01:12:37.875
sitting there before
you press record.

01:12:38.715 --> 01:12:39.195
Totally.

01:12:39.555 --> 01:12:42.975
I don't provide them
with all of the questions

01:12:42.975 --> 01:12:45.375
and information ahead
of time, because your

01:12:45.375 --> 01:12:46.885
response will come
back to scripted.

01:12:47.365 --> 01:12:48.055
Yeah.

01:12:48.825 --> 01:12:51.915
One that I think out,
I I've tried a couple

01:12:51.915 --> 01:12:54.555
of times, which is
I'm just going to

01:12:54.555 --> 01:12:55.605
keep things recording.

01:12:55.605 --> 01:12:57.705
We're wrapped up, we're
done, but I'm going

01:12:57.705 --> 01:13:00.765
to keep the re uh, the
recording process go.

01:13:00.765 --> 01:13:02.505
And we can just kind
of debrief on a few

01:13:02.505 --> 01:13:03.195
different things.

01:13:03.615 --> 01:13:07.125
And it's funny, I've
had some podcasts that

01:13:07.125 --> 01:13:11.625
are almost entirely
the after conversation.

01:13:12.035 --> 01:13:14.145
Do they know they're
on record, do

01:13:14.145 --> 01:13:14.695
they know they're.

01:13:14.695 --> 01:13:14.785
Yes.

01:13:14.785 --> 01:13:15.145
On record?

01:13:15.165 --> 01:13:15.465
Okay.

01:13:15.885 --> 01:13:16.245
Yes.

01:13:16.275 --> 01:13:16.685
Oh no, no.

01:13:16.695 --> 01:13:17.175
A hundred percent.

01:13:17.175 --> 01:13:18.705
I said, I'm just going
to, this is a chance for

01:13:18.705 --> 01:13:19.875
us to be able to relax.

01:13:20.355 --> 01:13:21.885
Talk about a few
different things,

01:13:21.885 --> 01:13:23.115
regroup over stuff.

01:13:23.115 --> 01:13:23.955
It's still recorded.

01:13:23.955 --> 01:13:27.345
Maybe we'll put this as
a, as a interim or use

01:13:27.345 --> 01:13:28.995
it if there's little
sound bites that come

01:13:28.995 --> 01:13:30.765
out of here that we can
use on social media.

01:13:30.795 --> 01:13:31.125
Great.

01:13:31.875 --> 01:13:34.245
And if we don't like
it, you just let me

01:13:34.245 --> 01:13:36.405
know and we can just,
we can wipe that part

01:13:36.405 --> 01:13:37.455
after, afterwards.

01:13:37.455 --> 01:13:39.855
And so no, a hundred
percent, I would never

01:13:40.065 --> 01:13:43.725
ever trick anybody on the
recording process because

01:13:43.725 --> 01:13:45.495
that's a surefire way to
never have anybody else

01:13:45.495 --> 01:13:46.335
want to come on the show.

01:13:47.925 --> 01:13:50.205
And some of the
best conversations

01:13:50.205 --> 01:13:52.815
happen the second is
you stop recording.

01:13:52.815 --> 01:13:55.485
So I found that to
be a useful trick.

01:13:55.755 --> 01:13:56.235
Yes.

01:13:56.235 --> 01:13:59.235
And then the other one
that I do is I always

01:13:59.235 --> 01:14:02.655
do push it a little
far with that one extra

01:14:02.655 --> 01:14:04.545
question that I know I
probably shouldn't ask.

01:14:04.875 --> 01:14:07.965
And so my trick is,
and is really hard

01:14:07.965 --> 01:14:10.635
as I'll ask it, it
hurts to ask it.

01:14:10.725 --> 01:14:12.465
It makes me cringe
sometimes to ask it.

01:14:12.885 --> 01:14:16.635
And then in the weird,
awkward silence, right

01:14:16.635 --> 01:14:18.285
as I'm about to say
something, I will

01:14:18.285 --> 01:14:23.715
literally put my tongue
between my teeth, so

01:14:23.715 --> 01:14:26.085
that I don't break
either of us out of it.

01:14:26.625 --> 01:14:28.395
And I let them take us
out of it because they'll

01:14:28.395 --> 01:14:29.895
take you out of it one
way or the other, but

01:14:29.895 --> 01:14:33.255
it's usually, it usually
brings that conversation

01:14:33.285 --> 01:14:35.475
just to that next little
bit of down to earth,

01:14:35.745 --> 01:14:39.375
real raw honesty and
some beautiful things

01:14:39.375 --> 01:14:40.185
happen out of that.

01:14:40.185 --> 01:14:41.205
It doesn't have
to be gotcha.

01:14:41.355 --> 01:14:42.645
It doesn't have to
be controversial.

01:14:42.705 --> 01:14:43.905
Sometimes it's emotional.

01:14:44.175 --> 01:14:46.575
Sometimes it's something
about their childhood

01:14:46.575 --> 01:14:48.585
that they're, I've
had so many people

01:14:48.585 --> 01:14:51.345
on the show stop, and
this is why the beauty

01:14:51.345 --> 01:14:52.545
happens in the silence.

01:14:52.575 --> 01:14:54.645
The beauty happens in
the silence and that's

01:14:54.645 --> 01:14:57.225
why I bite my tongue,
literally because

01:14:57.855 --> 01:14:59.535
they remember things.

01:15:00.434 --> 01:15:02.144
And you can see
them remembering.

01:15:02.745 --> 01:15:06.585
And it, as, as people
who read, read people,

01:15:06.585 --> 01:15:08.745
we want to help them,
but they need that

01:15:08.745 --> 01:15:09.705
moment just to remember.

01:15:09.705 --> 01:15:11.565
And then some of the
most amazing things

01:15:11.565 --> 01:15:14.295
happen when they step
back into their past.

01:15:14.804 --> 01:15:15.735
Can you hear
the kookaburra's

01:15:15.735 --> 01:15:16.424
laughing at me.

01:15:16.735 --> 01:15:17.884
I can hear 'em.

01:15:18.224 --> 01:15:19.575
And I like
that technique.

01:15:19.605 --> 01:15:24.014
That is what are the
hardest ones for me to

01:15:24.014 --> 01:15:27.075
practice, and I know I
should be doing that.

01:15:27.105 --> 01:15:33.375
And for whatever reason
I tend, I have, I think

01:15:33.375 --> 01:15:35.295
maybe I have to do what
you do is literally

01:15:35.295 --> 01:15:37.455
stick your tongue
up into your mouth.

01:15:37.514 --> 01:15:38.655
Because you don't
want, she's seeing

01:15:38.655 --> 01:15:39.674
people uncomfortable.

01:15:39.674 --> 01:15:41.235
I see it all the time
with you, you know, I've

01:15:41.235 --> 01:15:42.405
known you long enough.

01:15:42.405 --> 01:15:44.025
You really don't
like seeing people

01:15:44.025 --> 01:15:44.505
uncomfortable.

01:15:44.505 --> 01:15:46.545
You don't want to
push people down.

01:15:46.545 --> 01:15:48.745
You want to pull
people up right.

01:15:48.745 --> 01:15:48.924
Right.

01:15:48.924 --> 01:15:51.285
And so sometimes in
that moment of silence,

01:15:51.295 --> 01:15:53.684
you think that they're
dropping, but they're

01:15:53.684 --> 01:15:54.674
actually coming up.

01:15:54.674 --> 01:15:57.825
So just let them
find their footing.

01:15:58.514 --> 01:15:59.804
I think that's
awesome advice.

01:15:59.894 --> 01:16:00.075
Yeah.

01:16:00.075 --> 01:16:02.355
I did a, a number of
courses on interview

01:16:02.355 --> 01:16:03.795
and interrogation
and some with the

01:16:03.795 --> 01:16:05.894
Vancouver police or
with the Reed Institute

01:16:06.705 --> 01:16:07.455
out of the states.

01:16:07.455 --> 01:16:09.525
And there's, there's
all these different ways

01:16:09.525 --> 01:16:13.094
to be able to elicit
information from people.

01:16:13.575 --> 01:16:16.724
And I've never wanted
to use those techniques

01:16:17.805 --> 01:16:19.755
in a podcast scenario.

01:16:20.535 --> 01:16:23.265
Because quite often
it'll feel manipulative,

01:16:23.295 --> 01:16:25.725
but one technique that
they talk about, which

01:16:25.725 --> 01:16:28.995
is very, very powerful
is simply shut up,

01:16:29.115 --> 01:16:32.025
keep your mouth shut
because socially, people

01:16:32.025 --> 01:16:34.935
want to be able, the
silence is uncomfortable

01:16:34.935 --> 01:16:35.625
for everybody.

01:16:36.975 --> 01:16:38.715
People want to fill
that with something.

01:16:40.245 --> 01:16:42.645
And if you shut up, the
person will keep talking,

01:16:42.645 --> 01:16:43.725
just like I am right now.

01:16:44.025 --> 01:16:45.465
No, but you know,
what's beautiful

01:16:45.465 --> 01:16:46.005
about it though.

01:16:46.005 --> 01:16:47.625
And this is where
I learned my lesson

01:16:47.625 --> 01:16:48.465
was in editing.

01:16:49.035 --> 01:16:52.035
In that moment, the
silence feels like it

01:16:52.035 --> 01:16:56.925
goes on forever, but in
the edited version, when

01:16:56.925 --> 01:16:59.475
you, when you're looking
at the audio waves, that

01:16:59.475 --> 01:17:02.025
silence wasn't nearly
as long as it felt.

01:17:03.465 --> 01:17:04.485
That's a really
good point.

01:17:04.635 --> 01:17:08.295
So sometimes that
, three, four seconds

01:17:08.295 --> 01:17:10.905
of silence feels like
it's 40 seconds and

01:17:10.905 --> 01:17:14.415
it's painful, but trust
the audio waves, bite

01:17:14.415 --> 01:17:16.485
your tongue, let them
find their footing.

01:17:16.935 --> 01:17:18.405
And they'll almost,
listen if they don't

01:17:18.405 --> 01:17:19.995
want to go down
that road, they will

01:17:19.995 --> 01:17:22.105
usually, there'll
usually be a sign.

01:17:22.125 --> 01:17:24.705
And listen, if, if panic
flashes over their eyes,

01:17:25.825 --> 01:17:27.795
I'll shut, you don't
have to answer that.

01:17:27.825 --> 01:17:29.025
It's all good, you don't
have to answer that.

01:17:29.715 --> 01:17:30.975
You know, you're reading,
you're reading them.

01:17:30.975 --> 01:17:32.895
That's why, it's why it's
nice to be in person too.

01:17:32.895 --> 01:17:35.745
You can see, you can feel
like you're breathing

01:17:35.745 --> 01:17:36.495
in their energy.

01:17:36.495 --> 01:17:37.695
You can feel that change.

01:17:37.695 --> 01:17:39.225
So we do lose some.

01:17:39.325 --> 01:17:39.415
Yes.

01:17:39.465 --> 01:17:40.995
Of that by doing
it remotely.

01:17:42.405 --> 01:17:45.555
That energy is something
that's palpable at times.

01:17:45.555 --> 01:17:47.895
When you're in the
podcast studio, like

01:17:48.195 --> 01:17:50.715
we brought up Colin
Dowler before I just,

01:17:50.865 --> 01:17:53.865
his emotional story of
what he went through.

01:17:54.225 --> 01:17:55.875
There is so much
of that that ended

01:17:55.875 --> 01:17:59.655
up cut out because
from a psychological

01:17:59.655 --> 01:18:02.955
perspective, here I am
flown in, at his house.

01:18:02.955 --> 01:18:04.395
He was kind enough
to let me in and

01:18:04.395 --> 01:18:05.265
do this interview.

01:18:06.135 --> 01:18:07.595
And I want to hear the
story about how you

01:18:07.635 --> 01:18:09.345
fought off a grizzly
bear with a knife.

01:18:09.975 --> 01:18:13.485
And all I'm hearing
from him is minutiae

01:18:13.545 --> 01:18:16.365
and details all around
the event, as opposed

01:18:16.365 --> 01:18:17.205
to the actual event.

01:18:17.235 --> 01:18:19.005
And I could tell
at a certain point,

01:18:19.785 --> 01:18:23.715
he is emotionally
and psychologically

01:18:24.345 --> 01:18:27.285
avoiding that, that
whole instance again.

01:18:28.005 --> 01:18:30.165
And I remember
telling him, I

01:18:30.165 --> 01:18:31.005
said, look at Colin.

01:18:31.425 --> 01:18:32.925
It doesn't matter
that I flew out here,

01:18:32.925 --> 01:18:33.615
it doesn't matter.

01:18:33.885 --> 01:18:34.815
Why don't we
go for lunch?

01:18:34.965 --> 01:18:36.015
We don't have to record.

01:18:36.225 --> 01:18:37.515
Let's just listen.

01:18:37.575 --> 01:18:39.435
He says, no, no, no,
this is important.

01:18:39.435 --> 01:18:40.965
I want to get this
story out if we can

01:18:40.965 --> 01:18:41.775
save someone's life.

01:18:41.775 --> 01:18:46.095
And, but that the level
of connection and, um,

01:18:49.155 --> 01:18:51.735
that vibe that you get
with some of the people

01:18:51.735 --> 01:18:56.085
is, uh, uh, I find
is what drives me to

01:18:56.085 --> 01:18:58.255
be better at what I'm
doing here and everyday

01:18:58.275 --> 01:18:59.955
I'm reading, looking
at different ways to

01:18:59.955 --> 01:19:00.995
be better at this.

01:19:02.505 --> 01:19:02.825
Boom.

01:19:02.825 --> 01:19:03.385
So if, oh go.

01:19:04.445 --> 01:19:05.475
No, that's exactly right.

01:19:07.559 --> 01:19:09.180
So, if you had an
uncomfortable question

01:19:09.180 --> 01:19:11.710
for me, what would
that question be?

01:19:13.269 --> 01:19:15.570
Oh, it's probably
political.

01:19:16.470 --> 01:19:22.410
Um, uh, well, I just, I,
I'm always very curious

01:19:22.410 --> 01:19:24.300
how you manage politics.

01:19:24.300 --> 01:19:25.950
I don't know if that's,
if I'm going to die on

01:19:25.950 --> 01:19:26.849
the sword though,  I
don't know if that's

01:19:26.849 --> 01:19:29.610
the one I want to go on.

01:19:29.669 --> 01:19:31.849
You get one chance!

01:19:31.940 --> 01:19:32.359
Just one.

01:19:32.359 --> 01:19:34.549
Um, if I had to ask you
a really uncomfortable,

01:19:34.549 --> 01:19:36.570
well listen, I did
have, that was one

01:19:36.570 --> 01:19:38.610
of my questions about
regrets in life.

01:19:39.330 --> 01:19:41.370
Uh, that'd be our w
we did cover earlier.

01:19:41.700 --> 01:19:43.650
And then I also
did wonder how you

01:19:43.680 --> 01:19:45.480
navigated marketing
through integrity

01:19:45.480 --> 01:19:46.710
versus clickbait.

01:19:46.740 --> 01:19:49.830
We've covered that, but
yeah, politics, I mean,

01:19:49.830 --> 01:19:52.950
you, you work primarily,
or you're known in a lot

01:19:52.950 --> 01:19:56.639
of ways for firearms,
which is an incredibly

01:19:56.639 --> 01:19:57.750
polarizing subject.

01:19:57.750 --> 01:19:59.519
It's something
where you can be

01:19:59.519 --> 01:20:00.360
painted into a box.

01:20:00.360 --> 01:20:02.610
And listen, I get a
little bit frustrated

01:20:02.610 --> 01:20:04.380
sometimes because I've
been painted into the fly

01:20:04.380 --> 01:20:05.490
fishing steelhead box.

01:20:05.519 --> 01:20:07.230
Even though I fly
fish around the world,

01:20:07.230 --> 01:20:08.190
I fish saltwater.

01:20:08.190 --> 01:20:10.860
I hunt, I do all of these
things, but I'm a fly

01:20:10.860 --> 01:20:11.880
fishing steelhead girl.

01:20:12.570 --> 01:20:15.809
How does it feel being
painted into the box

01:20:15.840 --> 01:20:19.860
of firearms company and
how are you planning on,

01:20:20.099 --> 01:20:21.630
I mean, I guess that's
two different questions.

01:20:21.780 --> 01:20:23.099
Let's stay away from
politics because

01:20:23.099 --> 01:20:25.230
I don't understand
gun politics at all.

01:20:25.800 --> 01:20:28.740
From a branding stance,
how are you planning

01:20:28.830 --> 01:20:32.115
on stepping outside of
being put in the firearm

01:20:32.804 --> 01:20:34.605
corner, cause nobody
puts bady in the corner.

01:20:36.165 --> 01:20:37.514
No one puts bady
in the corner.

01:20:38.144 --> 01:20:39.885
So what's really
funny about that

01:20:39.885 --> 01:20:43.184
question is the one I
had for you next was

01:20:43.245 --> 01:20:44.315
getting pigeonholed.

01:20:44.395 --> 01:20:45.885
Ah hah!

01:20:45.885 --> 01:20:51.105
And talking about how
you were putting into

01:20:51.105 --> 01:20:53.144
a box and how you're
breaking out of that.

01:20:53.415 --> 01:20:53.955
Yes.

01:20:53.985 --> 01:20:55.514
People look at
me as a gun guy.

01:20:56.595 --> 01:20:57.224
I get it.

01:20:57.615 --> 01:20:59.894
I get why they would
look at me as a gun guy.

01:21:00.135 --> 01:21:02.385
I have never looked at
myself as a gun guy.

01:21:02.745 --> 01:21:05.144
I got my first gun, I
started shooting when I

01:21:05.144 --> 01:21:07.365
was four, got my first
gun when I was five,

01:21:07.365 --> 01:21:12.375
competed as a preteen and
teenager, I've trained at

01:21:12.375 --> 01:21:14.894
all levels of government
and trained others at

01:21:14.894 --> 01:21:16.095
all levels of government.

01:21:16.125 --> 01:21:18.135
I've gunsmithed for
a number of years

01:21:18.135 --> 01:21:21.434
for police agencies,
armour car companies,

01:21:21.434 --> 01:21:24.855
for private security,
done work with, all

01:21:24.855 --> 01:21:27.405
over the board and in
the firearms world.

01:21:27.764 --> 01:21:31.365
And I have never once
considered myself

01:21:32.085 --> 01:21:33.014
to be a gun guy.

01:21:33.405 --> 01:21:35.054
Those gun guys, they're
the ones that the

01:21:35.054 --> 01:21:37.335
gun show, they're the
ones on the forums.

01:21:37.365 --> 01:21:39.465
They're the ones
doing all of these

01:21:39.465 --> 01:21:40.125
other things.

01:21:40.665 --> 01:21:44.295
Um, they're really
diehard, they're into it.

01:21:44.865 --> 01:21:47.835
I've always considered
myself, you know, I

01:21:47.835 --> 01:21:49.485
guess I've had a hard
time really putting

01:21:49.485 --> 01:21:52.695
my finger on exactly
what it is that that

01:21:53.235 --> 01:21:54.285
truly drives me.

01:21:55.455 --> 01:22:00.285
But like you, I think
it's the adventure

01:22:00.300 --> 01:22:01.260
of the unknown.

01:22:01.980 --> 01:22:02.520
Excuse me.

01:22:03.420 --> 01:22:07.740
So when, when I was
younger, I would push

01:22:07.740 --> 01:22:11.370
myself on adventures
quite often, which were

01:22:11.520 --> 01:22:12.810
extremely dangerous.

01:22:12.870 --> 01:22:17.430
And I would come out of
that feeling invigorated.

01:22:17.700 --> 01:22:20.100
And I would tell others,
I said, you never

01:22:20.100 --> 01:22:24.450
feel truly alive until
you've reached a point

01:22:24.930 --> 01:22:28.830
where that threshold
between possible life

01:22:28.830 --> 01:22:31.770
and possible death
is, is razor thin.

01:22:32.220 --> 01:22:33.060
You leave that.

01:22:33.330 --> 01:22:35.250
And I felt, hey, on
top of the world,

01:22:35.250 --> 01:22:35.880
this is great.

01:22:37.560 --> 01:22:39.780
And I've had to take
a look at a way that's

01:22:39.840 --> 01:22:42.150
probably a lit, a
bit more healthier

01:22:42.150 --> 01:22:44.370
to navigate into
the adventure and

01:22:44.370 --> 01:22:45.810
the unknown and I've
done that through

01:22:45.810 --> 01:22:46.710
the business world.

01:22:47.430 --> 01:22:52.920
So I've been pigeonholed
by many as the big guy,

01:22:52.950 --> 01:22:58.800
or the gun guy, or I
think most who truly know

01:22:58.800 --> 01:23:03.870
me would see me more as,
he's a family man, and

01:23:03.870 --> 01:23:07.670
he has way too many, um.

01:23:07.910 --> 01:23:08.160
Toys.

01:23:08.160 --> 01:23:08.700
Toys.

01:23:08.700 --> 01:23:08.870
Yeah.

01:23:08.980 --> 01:23:09.670
And hobbies.

01:23:09.990 --> 01:23:11.260
That's how I see you.

01:23:11.360 --> 01:23:11.540
Right.

01:23:11.990 --> 01:23:12.429
I love it though.

01:23:12.429 --> 01:23:15.090
What are you going to do
with, how are you going

01:23:15.090 --> 01:23:17.580
to play with all these
different toys, right?

01:23:18.525 --> 01:23:20.295
Yeah, I dunno if it
comes from not having

01:23:20.295 --> 01:23:22.575
many toys growing up
and trying to reach

01:23:22.575 --> 01:23:24.975
a point where you can
actually have something.

01:23:25.095 --> 01:23:26.895
I never ever figured
I'd be the type of

01:23:26.895 --> 01:23:30.855
person to achieve, even
just a fraction of what

01:23:30.855 --> 01:23:34.965
I've got and if I'm
able to help others.

01:23:35.655 --> 01:23:39.705
Because at my core, I'm
always, what gets me

01:23:39.705 --> 01:23:41.595
really excited is being
able to help others

01:23:41.595 --> 01:23:44.595
do similar things, to
see other people reach

01:23:44.595 --> 01:23:45.735
their full potential.

01:23:46.425 --> 01:23:54.135
Um, I, I think that would
be, uh, perhaps a pigeon

01:23:54.135 --> 01:23:56.865
hole that I would be more
or a moniker that I'd be

01:23:56.865 --> 01:23:58.125
more comfortable wearing.

01:23:58.635 --> 01:24:00.525
Uh, then than
the gun guy.

01:24:01.035 --> 01:24:04.155
I consult for law
firms or federal court,

01:24:04.155 --> 01:24:07.095
provincial Supreme court
on firearms and use of

01:24:07.095 --> 01:24:09.375
force related matters,
I still don't consider

01:24:09.375 --> 01:24:11.025
myself the gun guy.

01:24:11.115 --> 01:24:11.685
I don't know.

01:24:13.755 --> 01:24:15.165
I guess it's easy in the.

01:24:16.395 --> 01:24:16.755
All right.

01:24:16.755 --> 01:24:17.955
So where did
we leave off?

01:24:17.955 --> 01:24:19.845
We were talking
about pigeonholing.

01:24:20.655 --> 01:24:22.035
We're were talking
about pigeonholing

01:24:22.845 --> 01:24:24.675
and I forget what the
actual question was.

01:24:24.675 --> 01:24:26.985
And I think I meandered
all around on my answer

01:24:26.985 --> 01:24:27.825
there a little bit.

01:24:28.125 --> 01:24:29.835
You did a little
bit, but what is your

01:24:29.835 --> 01:24:30.825
plan moving forward?

01:24:30.825 --> 01:24:32.955
Are you planning
on trying to very

01:24:32.955 --> 01:24:34.785
cognitively and
very deliberately

01:24:34.905 --> 01:24:36.135
break out of that?

01:24:37.305 --> 01:24:42.735
So what I see is
the firearms world,

01:24:42.795 --> 01:24:45.765
although I don't see
myself as a gun guy,

01:24:46.585 --> 01:24:50.055
is the majority of what
I know through life

01:24:50.085 --> 01:24:51.225
and through business.

01:24:52.095 --> 01:24:54.735
And it's where I've
put so much effort

01:24:54.765 --> 01:24:55.755
up until this point.

01:24:56.025 --> 01:24:59.235
But I do see the
writing on the wall

01:24:59.415 --> 01:25:02.625
in so far as a social
stigma associated with

01:25:02.625 --> 01:25:03.645
the firearms industry.

01:25:04.185 --> 01:25:07.215
All it takes is one
lunatic to go out and

01:25:07.215 --> 01:25:09.555
use a firearm in an
inappropriate fashion.

01:25:10.215 --> 01:25:12.585
And the world's in an
uproar again, all of

01:25:12.585 --> 01:25:14.895
a sudden Shopify is
closing down people's

01:25:14.895 --> 01:25:17.055
accounts if they
have firearms related

01:25:17.055 --> 01:25:19.935
activities or merchant
providers are saying,

01:25:19.935 --> 01:25:20.895
yeah, we're backing out.

01:25:20.895 --> 01:25:22.125
We're not going to
use you anymore.

01:25:22.125 --> 01:25:25.845
And from a long-term
business model

01:25:25.845 --> 01:25:27.585
perspective,
that's scary.

01:25:27.975 --> 01:25:31.395
And I think it makes
sense to try and take

01:25:31.395 --> 01:25:32.685
that conversation.

01:25:33.045 --> 01:25:35.025
I mean, you're
essentially going

01:25:35.025 --> 01:25:39.735
against almost a a
hundred years of social

01:25:39.735 --> 01:25:43.935
engineering on the
perception of firearms.

01:25:45.135 --> 01:25:47.685
I don't know if that's
something that I

01:25:47.685 --> 01:25:49.155
really want to take on.

01:25:49.695 --> 01:25:52.665
I mean, I can, I can go
against that current.

01:25:53.025 --> 01:25:56.505
I can try and I can
try and fight it, or

01:25:56.505 --> 01:26:00.105
I can find a way to
change that narrative

01:26:00.105 --> 01:26:01.155
in a positive way.

01:26:01.545 --> 01:26:05.025
Moving forward, there
is a definite conscious

01:26:05.055 --> 01:26:09.495
aspect to how do you
grow the game forward

01:26:09.495 --> 01:26:12.555
using what you know,
but in a way that is

01:26:12.615 --> 01:26:15.935
acceptable to today's
current cancel culture.

01:26:17.440 --> 01:26:18.089
Yeah, right.

01:26:18.879 --> 01:26:18.990
Yeah.

01:26:19.230 --> 01:26:20.339
Dun dun dun dun.

01:26:20.339 --> 01:26:23.170
We just opened up a
new can of worms..

01:26:23.250 --> 01:26:24.870
Oh, tell me about it.

01:26:25.260 --> 01:26:28.590
So there are so many
opportunities that I

01:26:28.590 --> 01:26:31.530
have been provided in
the firearms industry

01:26:31.530 --> 01:26:33.870
and continue to be
provided that I am

01:26:33.870 --> 01:26:35.730
simply not taking up.

01:26:36.240 --> 01:26:42.840
Although lucrative, the
emotional energy required

01:26:42.870 --> 01:26:47.130
to push that one forward,
in my opinion is not

01:26:47.160 --> 01:26:49.019
worth it at this point.

01:26:49.290 --> 01:26:51.240
And I feel like I can
do a heck of a lot

01:26:51.240 --> 01:26:53.580
more for the outdoors
community, for the

01:26:53.580 --> 01:26:55.980
hunting community, for
the firearms community,

01:26:57.059 --> 01:27:01.800
by, by transitioning the
narrative of how firearms

01:27:01.800 --> 01:27:04.349
are typically looked
at and into something

01:27:04.349 --> 01:27:06.460
that's way more socially
acceptable and riding

01:27:06.540 --> 01:27:08.700
current trends that
are currently in place.

01:27:08.700 --> 01:27:11.429
I mean, it doesn't take
a genius to have to log

01:27:11.429 --> 01:27:14.130
into Google trends and
see what what's popping

01:27:14.130 --> 01:27:18.480
and what isn't, and be
able to leverage that

01:27:18.480 --> 01:27:22.950
one much in the same way
that, um, Shane Mahoney,

01:27:23.639 --> 01:27:27.179
as a environmentalist,
as a conservationist,

01:27:27.210 --> 01:27:30.240
is taking an approach
to, uh, getting

01:27:30.240 --> 01:27:34.349
people interested in
conservation, uh, is a

01:27:34.349 --> 01:27:36.120
similar approach to what
I'm looking at doing

01:27:36.120 --> 01:27:38.519
with firearms and with
my business in general.

01:27:39.510 --> 01:27:40.469
Yeah, absolutely.

01:27:40.500 --> 01:27:41.340
No, I like it.

01:27:41.760 --> 01:27:43.080
I think you guys
are doing great job.

01:27:44.720 --> 01:27:45.630
It's funny, isn't it?

01:27:45.630 --> 01:27:50.790
How a business can, you
know, unintentionally

01:27:50.790 --> 01:27:53.040
form someone's
opinion about you.

01:27:53.040 --> 01:27:55.500
I mean, I remember
meeting you and Tiffany

01:27:55.500 --> 01:27:57.180
very clearly, like
it was yesterday, and

01:27:57.540 --> 01:27:59.820
thinking to myself, I
just automatically put

01:27:59.820 --> 01:28:01.890
you guys in a box and
I'm not against firearms.

01:28:01.890 --> 01:28:02.730
I have firearms.

01:28:03.870 --> 01:28:06.120
But for some reason,
when you guys told me

01:28:06.120 --> 01:28:09.660
you're into foraging and
going crabbing and all

01:28:09.660 --> 01:28:11.340
of the wonderful things
that you're doing and

01:28:11.340 --> 01:28:13.770
going fly fishing and
stuff, I just, it was a

01:28:13.770 --> 01:28:15.900
surprise, which is really
ignorant on my part.

01:28:15.900 --> 01:28:18.990
So unfortunately with
our, our short attention

01:28:18.990 --> 01:28:21.120
spans these days, we
tend to, it's easy

01:28:21.120 --> 01:28:23.680
just to put people
in a box and decide.

01:28:23.680 --> 01:28:24.240
It totally is.

01:28:24.240 --> 01:28:25.110
Where you're
putting them.

01:28:25.380 --> 01:28:26.880
And then you know
where to turn to when

01:28:26.880 --> 01:28:27.780
you need that box.

01:28:27.780 --> 01:28:28.470
You know what I mean?

01:28:28.800 --> 01:28:29.610
It's not fair.

01:28:30.550 --> 01:28:30.970
Yeah.

01:28:31.310 --> 01:28:32.790
You know, I
enjoy surfing.

01:28:32.820 --> 01:28:33.780
I like skateboarding.

01:28:33.780 --> 01:28:35.030
I got my electric
skateboard.

01:28:35.040 --> 01:28:35.970
I'll take into work.

01:28:35.970 --> 01:28:37.320
I enjoy mountaineering.

01:28:37.320 --> 01:28:41.670
I enjoy snowboarding,
skiing, scuba, fishing,

01:28:41.670 --> 01:28:42.660
hunting, firearms.

01:28:42.660 --> 01:28:44.840
I mean, it's just, it's
all over the board.

01:28:44.880 --> 01:28:46.470
Like woodworking,
metalworking.

01:28:46.470 --> 01:28:50.250
I like electronics and it
just, the list goes on.

01:28:50.250 --> 01:28:52.290
And for me to be kind
of pigeonholed into one

01:28:52.290 --> 01:28:58.020
simple area as firearms
alone is uh, I don't

01:28:58.020 --> 01:29:00.660
know, it's somewhat
limiting and it's one,

01:29:00.660 --> 01:29:03.360
it's one area where I've
never allowed myself to

01:29:03.360 --> 01:29:05.240
be truly pigeonholed in.

01:29:05.430 --> 01:29:07.470
May, maybe I consciously
fight getting too far

01:29:07.470 --> 01:29:08.730
into there cause I
know that's going to

01:29:08.730 --> 01:29:10.800
take away from other,
other areas and other

01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:11.820
interests that I have.

01:29:12.060 --> 01:29:14.160
But I think in the end
it'll lead to a more

01:29:14.160 --> 01:29:18.240
holistic community
and uh, and business.

01:29:19.140 --> 01:29:19.530
That's right.

01:29:19.530 --> 01:29:20.970
People are
multi-dimensional,

01:29:21.240 --> 01:29:23.250
we're not just, you
know, one or nothing.

01:29:23.250 --> 01:29:24.690
But I have a
question for you.

01:29:24.990 --> 01:29:27.840
You have mentioned ADHD
a number of times now,

01:29:28.230 --> 01:29:32.640
and as somebody who, I
don't believe I'm ADHD,

01:29:33.000 --> 01:29:35.550
but I know that I have
a very similar brain to

01:29:35.550 --> 01:29:36.510
yours in a lot of ways.

01:29:36.780 --> 01:29:38.790
And I have my own
uneducated opinion.

01:29:38.940 --> 01:29:41.670
So it's very much just
an opinion on ADHD.

01:29:41.670 --> 01:29:43.140
I do wonder sometimes.

01:29:43.290 --> 01:29:46.020
And my sister's
a, uh, a doctor

01:29:46.080 --> 01:29:48.170
that's psychiatrist.

01:29:48.900 --> 01:29:49.140
Yeah.

01:29:49.140 --> 01:29:50.430
Which is the one
that yes, she's

01:29:50.430 --> 01:29:51.120
a psychiatrist.

01:29:51.450 --> 01:29:54.060
And so I know that she's
got all this medical

01:29:55.800 --> 01:29:59.070
stuff around ADHD, but
I often wonder sometimes

01:29:59.070 --> 01:30:01.230
if people who have ADHD
just are people who

01:30:01.230 --> 01:30:04.140
should be outside, maybe
when we were younger.

01:30:04.140 --> 01:30:07.695
I mean, when we were
primitive or more

01:30:07.695 --> 01:30:10.275
primitive, you know, back
in the day, maybe that's

01:30:10.335 --> 01:30:12.615
the people who had ADHD
were meant to be out

01:30:12.615 --> 01:30:16.215
there providing for, you
know, their families.

01:30:16.434 --> 01:30:18.644
Anyway, we could go down
a whole different, like

01:30:18.644 --> 01:30:20.655
I said, very uneducated
tangent on that.

01:30:20.655 --> 01:30:22.394
I would sound like
a complete ass if I

01:30:22.394 --> 01:30:23.835
don't already, but.

01:30:24.804 --> 01:30:25.384
You don't.

01:30:25.644 --> 01:30:26.034
You don't.

01:30:26.065 --> 01:30:28.035
But, well, I just, I
remember once I think I

01:30:28.035 --> 01:30:29.505
said something and this
would have been again

01:30:29.505 --> 01:30:32.445
about a decade ago, I
said something about ADHD

01:30:32.445 --> 01:30:33.735
isn't real or something.

01:30:33.735 --> 01:30:36.285
And I had doctors
just put me in my

01:30:36.285 --> 01:30:37.095
place pretty fast.

01:30:37.095 --> 01:30:40.335
So I'm very much ignorant
when it comes to that.

01:30:40.335 --> 01:30:42.555
But I have my own
little theories and

01:30:42.555 --> 01:30:44.684
speculations about that.

01:30:44.835 --> 01:30:47.715
But, but, but let me
get on track here, ADHD

01:30:47.715 --> 01:30:49.385
and you, Travis Bader.

01:30:50.684 --> 01:30:53.445
One thing I do know a
lot about, as far as

01:30:53.445 --> 01:30:58.184
having a racing mind
and fly fishing, is that

01:30:58.184 --> 01:31:01.575
they can work really
well together or really

01:31:01.575 --> 01:31:02.565
poorly with each other.

01:31:02.985 --> 01:31:05.235
Because fly fishing
is very meditative,

01:31:05.295 --> 01:31:06.105
meditative.

01:31:06.105 --> 01:31:08.144
And so if forced, I
mean, you could meditate

01:31:08.144 --> 01:31:10.035
by listening to the
sound of wind, right?

01:31:10.035 --> 01:31:11.355
You just have to
focus on the sound of

01:31:11.355 --> 01:31:12.705
something else beyond
your own thoughts.

01:31:13.184 --> 01:31:16.755
And so with fly fishing,
uh, you focused on

01:31:16.875 --> 01:31:19.095
a particular motion,
which is actually

01:31:19.095 --> 01:31:19.995
quite repetitive.

01:31:20.175 --> 01:31:21.885
And so it can be
very meditative for

01:31:21.885 --> 01:31:22.575
a lot of people.

01:31:23.700 --> 01:31:25.170
As somebody who has
a brain that goes

01:31:25.170 --> 01:31:27.600
a mile a minute,
sometimes it's good

01:31:27.750 --> 01:31:28.830
to help me slow down.

01:31:28.860 --> 01:31:31.290
And sometimes it's
impossible because I

01:31:31.290 --> 01:31:33.120
can't get into casting
because my brain's

01:31:33.120 --> 01:31:33.930
moving a mile a minute.

01:31:34.769 --> 01:31:39.000
You are pretty new to fly
fishing and your brain

01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:40.860
moves 200 miles a minute.

01:31:41.940 --> 01:31:45.090
Does fly fishing pain
you because it's just too

01:31:45.090 --> 01:31:48.450
hard to sit still or has
it helped you to relax

01:31:48.510 --> 01:31:50.340
and focus and meditate?

01:31:51.210 --> 01:31:53.730
I think you have
a number of good

01:31:53.730 --> 01:31:54.780
questions in there.

01:31:54.960 --> 01:31:57.690
I almost feel like you
pulled a punch there as

01:31:57.690 --> 01:31:59.190
well, at the beginning.

01:31:59.700 --> 01:32:02.250
But my personal
opinion on the

01:32:02.250 --> 01:32:03.600
whole idea of ADHD.

01:32:03.720 --> 01:32:06.630
So I was diagnosed with
ADHD when I was in grade

01:32:06.660 --> 01:32:11.519
three, I was, uh, told
that I was a perfectly

01:32:11.519 --> 01:32:14.460
lovely human being up
until I hit school.

01:32:14.880 --> 01:32:18.480
And, uh, my parents would
tell me that the teachers

01:32:18.480 --> 01:32:19.830
ruined me, right.

01:32:19.860 --> 01:32:22.050
They, and the school
system, and I just

01:32:22.050 --> 01:32:23.130
didn't jive with it.

01:32:23.160 --> 01:32:27.660
And, um, by grade three
I was taken in, I was,

01:32:28.320 --> 01:32:31.500
uh, diagnosed with
ADHD and prescribed

01:32:32.010 --> 01:32:33.450
a lot of Ritalin.

01:32:33.630 --> 01:32:35.850
And in fact, as the years
went on all the way up

01:32:35.850 --> 01:32:38.370
until grade seven, I
was prescribed Ritalin.

01:32:38.430 --> 01:32:41.220
I was told by my doctor,
I was on the highest

01:32:41.220 --> 01:32:46.110
dosage of Ritalin, uh,
that he's aware of, of

01:32:46.110 --> 01:32:48.300
anybody in the province
because they could only

01:32:48.670 --> 01:32:51.390
prescribe X certain
amount in per pill.

01:32:51.390 --> 01:32:53.340
So he'd have me takin'
eight pills in the

01:32:53.340 --> 01:32:55.680
morning and six pills
in the afternoon.

01:32:55.680 --> 01:32:58.019
And man, I was humming
because Ritalin

01:32:58.019 --> 01:32:58.860
is a stimulant.

01:32:59.640 --> 01:33:04.410
My personal thought on
all of that is there's

01:33:04.410 --> 01:33:08.100
a lot of people out
there who will want to

01:33:08.100 --> 01:33:11.370
have a label for why
they are a certain way.

01:33:11.670 --> 01:33:14.130
Whether that's
ADHD or, or, or

01:33:14.130 --> 01:33:15.180
whatever it might be.

01:33:15.420 --> 01:33:17.700
It makes them feel more
comfortable with who

01:33:17.700 --> 01:33:22.019
they are as a person and
describing their, makes

01:33:22.019 --> 01:33:23.880
them comfortable with
their own idiosyncrasies.

01:33:26.340 --> 01:33:31.350
I am not entirely sure
I have ADHD, despite

01:33:31.350 --> 01:33:33.900
being diagnosed with it,
despite the troubles in

01:33:33.900 --> 01:33:36.900
school, despite having
to do the, the Ritalin

01:33:36.900 --> 01:33:37.590
and all the rest.

01:33:37.590 --> 01:33:40.260
I remember talking
to a person who was a

01:33:40.260 --> 01:33:42.720
professional individual
at one point and they

01:33:42.720 --> 01:33:44.670
said, is there any
point in your life

01:33:44.670 --> 01:33:47.160
when you felt you
didn't have ADHD?

01:33:47.850 --> 01:33:51.300
And I was, I said,
well, yeah, you know,

01:33:51.300 --> 01:33:55.500
I was, um, when I was
traveling around the

01:33:55.500 --> 01:33:59.490
world and in certain
countries or, uh, I was

01:33:59.580 --> 01:34:02.130
19 years old, couldn't
speak the language of

01:34:02.130 --> 01:34:04.290
the people around, so
you're quite quiet.

01:34:04.470 --> 01:34:07.230
You're quite,
uh, observant.

01:34:07.290 --> 01:34:10.710
And I found there is
a very, very calming,

01:34:10.769 --> 01:34:11.849
calming process.

01:34:11.849 --> 01:34:15.180
And when I finally did
return home for years,

01:34:15.240 --> 01:34:17.910
for about a year, I,
anyways, everyone says,

01:34:17.910 --> 01:34:18.690
man you've changed.

01:34:18.690 --> 01:34:20.400
You're different, you're
calm, you're quiet.

01:34:20.400 --> 01:34:20.670
Right.

01:34:21.510 --> 01:34:26.370
Um, so the person
said, well, if you had

01:34:26.370 --> 01:34:29.490
that, what makes you
think you do have ADHD?

01:34:29.820 --> 01:34:33.000
So ADHD from my
understanding is

01:34:33.000 --> 01:34:36.720
something to do with a
disassociation between

01:34:36.720 --> 01:34:38.640
the prefrontal cortex
and the rest of the

01:34:38.640 --> 01:34:42.240
brain and how it, how it
interacts and why people

01:34:42.240 --> 01:34:45.599
will tend to not look
at consequences, which

01:34:45.599 --> 01:34:48.639
was one thing when I was
growing up, I wouldn't

01:34:48.660 --> 01:34:49.680
look at consequences.

01:34:49.710 --> 01:34:52.620
I would do things, not
thinking that the end

01:34:52.620 --> 01:34:55.260
result of what I'm doing
could be my death, or

01:34:55.440 --> 01:34:58.080
it could be something,
I would just do it.

01:34:58.080 --> 01:34:59.610
Cause right now in
that moment, that was

01:34:59.610 --> 01:35:01.980
something I was keen on.

01:35:03.090 --> 01:35:06.300
But in other ways,
uh, it could be

01:35:06.300 --> 01:35:08.160
environmental, right?

01:35:08.160 --> 01:35:11.280
If you're living in a
certain environment and

01:35:11.280 --> 01:35:13.920
there's a certain level
of chaos in your life,

01:35:14.370 --> 01:35:16.710
perhaps you seek out
chaos because that's

01:35:16.710 --> 01:35:21.450
what you know, to be
comic, normal, natural.

01:35:21.540 --> 01:35:23.519
Perhaps I put
myself in situation.

01:35:24.009 --> 01:35:24.709
Exciting.

01:35:24.709 --> 01:35:24.940
Exciting.

01:35:24.940 --> 01:35:25.249
Right.

01:35:25.249 --> 01:35:27.019
Which makes you
happy, which brings

01:35:27.019 --> 01:35:27.710
us full circle.

01:35:27.710 --> 01:35:28.800
But yes, continue,
continue.

01:35:28.970 --> 01:35:29.690
I'm fascinated.

01:35:30.410 --> 01:35:30.740
Right.

01:35:30.780 --> 01:35:33.410
So was I putting
myself in these

01:35:33.410 --> 01:35:38.100
situations, which were
dangerous or exciting.

01:35:38.130 --> 01:35:40.080
I mean, just,
just stupid crap.

01:35:40.080 --> 01:35:42.660
And you know, part
of me wants to say it

01:35:42.690 --> 01:35:44.880
because people will be
like, oh my God, I can't

01:35:44.880 --> 01:35:45.600
believe you did that.

01:35:45.600 --> 01:35:47.100
It would be interesting
for discussion.

01:35:47.310 --> 01:35:50.380
The other part realizes
that my kids listen

01:35:50.400 --> 01:35:51.180
to the podcast.

01:35:51.600 --> 01:35:53.550
So I think I'll leave
those parts out.

01:35:54.180 --> 01:36:01.050
Um, is it, is it a
by-product of a, uh,

01:36:01.080 --> 01:36:04.470
disassociation or the
neural network between

01:36:04.470 --> 01:36:06.360
the prefrontal cortex and
the rest of your brain

01:36:06.390 --> 01:36:08.310
and making decisions
and consequences and all

01:36:08.310 --> 01:36:13.260
the rest, or is it how
you, uh, deal with your

01:36:13.260 --> 01:36:15.810
surroundings and react
to your environment?

01:36:15.870 --> 01:36:19.860
Um, so when you look
at fly fishing, for

01:36:19.860 --> 01:36:22.920
example, some people
say, man, if you have

01:36:22.920 --> 01:36:26.490
ADHD, you get hyper-focus
other people say, no,

01:36:26.490 --> 01:36:28.620
no, no, no, that's not
hyper-focus, that's the

01:36:28.650 --> 01:36:31.170
inability to unfocus.

01:36:31.350 --> 01:36:33.120
It's not that you've
got this great

01:36:33.120 --> 01:36:33.930
thing going on.

01:36:33.930 --> 01:36:36.720
It's the fact that you
can't switch gears like

01:36:36.720 --> 01:36:37.950
other people normally do.

01:36:38.880 --> 01:36:43.140
I see that in myself
when I work, I work.

01:36:43.740 --> 01:36:47.760
And in fact, I, I re you
know, I can remember one

01:36:47.760 --> 01:36:50.460
shift pulling in, I think
it was 27 hours of just

01:36:50.460 --> 01:36:52.740
working and there I am
in the shop and it would

01:36:52.740 --> 01:36:54.900
be a normal occurrence.

01:36:55.020 --> 01:36:57.600
I mean, Tiff would come
by, I'd be working in the

01:36:57.600 --> 01:36:59.910
shop early in the morning
and she'd bring on some

01:36:59.910 --> 01:37:02.580
food and I got breakfast
and she'd bring me food

01:37:02.580 --> 01:37:03.740
the next morning as well.

01:37:03.750 --> 01:37:06.660
I mean, and then when
I'm not working on

01:37:06.660 --> 01:37:08.790
playing, all I wanted
to do was play, right.

01:37:08.940 --> 01:37:10.200
Then I'm into play mode.

01:37:10.230 --> 01:37:11.820
And I, and I don't,
have to have a

01:37:11.820 --> 01:37:13.440
hard time getting
back into the work.

01:37:14.130 --> 01:37:20.610
The actual act of,
uh, fly fishing for

01:37:20.610 --> 01:37:25.140
me, isn't so much a
meditative process

01:37:25.890 --> 01:37:27.930
because my hands are
always doing something.

01:37:27.930 --> 01:37:29.580
If you could see my
feet right now, they're

01:37:29.580 --> 01:37:32.790
bouncing a mile a minute,
but being in the river,

01:37:34.200 --> 01:37:37.410
being in a boat, being
out in the environment,

01:37:37.650 --> 01:37:40.500
I find that brings a
level of presentness

01:37:41.040 --> 01:37:43.860
that is absent in my,
in my everyday life.

01:37:43.890 --> 01:37:47.730
So it's not necessarily
the activity, but is

01:37:47.730 --> 01:37:50.820
my surroundings that I
find will bring in that

01:37:50.820 --> 01:37:52.110
level of present ness.

01:37:52.440 --> 01:37:54.960
And you say listening to
the wind, it could be as

01:37:54.960 --> 01:37:57.270
simple as looking at a
color and concentrating

01:37:57.270 --> 01:38:01.260
on that color or the
waves or a smell or in

01:38:01.620 --> 01:38:04.140
that is one thing that
I found I've had to work

01:38:04.140 --> 01:38:07.740
really hard on is live
in that present moment.

01:38:08.880 --> 01:38:10.320
That's a long-winded
way of getting at it.

01:38:10.320 --> 01:38:11.670
And there's more,
I got so much more

01:38:11.670 --> 01:38:12.300
to say on this.

01:38:12.730 --> 01:38:13.810
No, I think it's great.

01:38:13.850 --> 01:38:14.230
Hang on.

01:38:14.230 --> 01:38:16.900
So for your listener
and your viewer, I

01:38:16.900 --> 01:38:18.550
have a three-and-a-half
year old under my feet.

01:38:18.580 --> 01:38:22.630
So if you see me like
that, um, having cables

01:38:22.660 --> 01:38:25.570
pulling and me shifting,
and me trying to phrase

01:38:25.570 --> 01:38:28.870
a question intelligently,
unsuccessfully,

01:38:28.870 --> 01:38:31.450
that is why, so
we'll leave that in.

01:38:31.450 --> 01:38:33.370
So people know why I
sound like a moron.

01:38:34.275 --> 01:38:37.335
Um, so now that we've
gotten that out of the

01:38:37.335 --> 01:38:39.075
way, so people know
what's happening because

01:38:39.075 --> 01:38:40.455
they're like, why is
she having spasms?

01:38:40.875 --> 01:38:44.115
Um, do you, and, and
I'm going to just

01:38:44.115 --> 01:38:44.985
come around here.

01:38:45.015 --> 01:38:46.605
So my sister was
diagnosed, was

01:38:46.605 --> 01:38:47.415
diagnosed with it.

01:38:47.805 --> 01:38:50.315
She did not have,
she didn't have it.

01:38:50.315 --> 01:38:50.485
Sure.

01:38:50.485 --> 01:38:51.825
And quite a few
of my friends were

01:38:51.825 --> 01:38:52.665
diagnosed with it.

01:38:52.665 --> 01:38:53.295
They didn't have it.

01:38:53.295 --> 01:38:55.875
And I thought it was
very strange that when

01:38:55.875 --> 01:38:57.735
I would take them out
fishing and more recently

01:38:57.735 --> 01:39:02.205
hunting that suddenly
this ADHD was just gone.

01:39:02.565 --> 01:39:05.685
It didn't, it wasn't
there, because

01:39:05.685 --> 01:39:06.435
they were outside.

01:39:06.435 --> 01:39:08.475
And I am always been
vocal that I believe

01:39:08.475 --> 01:39:10.215
that the way that we're
supposed to, supposed

01:39:10.215 --> 01:39:12.045
to live, you know,
with these nine to five

01:39:12.045 --> 01:39:14.895
jobs, driving an hour
there and an hour back,

01:39:15.165 --> 01:39:17.955
fluorescent lighting,
white walls, basically

01:39:17.955 --> 01:39:20.535
in an insane asylum, for
the majority of our day

01:39:20.535 --> 01:39:21.915
is completely unnatural.

01:39:22.695 --> 01:39:24.135
I've always looked
at people who have

01:39:24.215 --> 01:39:29.055
ADHD, who, because who
normalize and level out,

01:39:29.055 --> 01:39:32.025
out in the wilderness
to just be more in touch

01:39:32.295 --> 01:39:35.415
with who they are as
primitive beings and

01:39:35.415 --> 01:39:36.375
who they are as humans.

01:39:36.975 --> 01:39:40.185
Do you find that the
ADHD and I don't mean

01:39:40.185 --> 01:39:41.415
when you're sitting
there staking out a

01:39:41.415 --> 01:39:43.275
deer and you getting all
these business ideas.

01:39:43.815 --> 01:39:45.015
I mean, that's
just part of being

01:39:45.015 --> 01:39:45.765
a business owner.

01:39:46.035 --> 01:39:46.455
Right.

01:39:46.725 --> 01:39:49.215
But did you ever find
growing up that your

01:39:49.215 --> 01:39:52.845
ADHD and my quotations
are not discrediting

01:39:52.845 --> 01:39:53.605
it medically.

01:39:53.605 --> 01:39:53.844
No no.

01:39:53.844 --> 01:39:54.013
I'm just talking.

01:39:54.013 --> 01:39:54.125
No I.

01:39:54.125 --> 01:39:55.634
About you specifically.

01:39:56.164 --> 01:39:56.324
Yeah.

01:39:56.625 --> 01:39:59.285
Did it disappear when
you were outside.

01:40:02.219 --> 01:40:03.269
Yes.

01:40:03.719 --> 01:40:06.480
And to a, and I will,
I will preface that.

01:40:06.750 --> 01:40:08.610
So when, when you do
the quotation marks

01:40:08.610 --> 01:40:11.550
on ADHD, I'm on the
same page as you, I'm

01:40:11.550 --> 01:40:12.750
not entirely certain.

01:40:12.929 --> 01:40:15.389
I think there's an
entire industry that's

01:40:15.389 --> 01:40:19.980
rotated around mental
health in children that

01:40:19.980 --> 01:40:24.870
is predicated on trying
to give pills or therapy

01:40:25.259 --> 01:40:29.280
to individuals who
could probably thrive in

01:40:29.400 --> 01:40:30.660
different environments.

01:40:30.719 --> 01:40:31.889
The whole school
system that we

01:40:31.889 --> 01:40:32.880
have is antiquated.

01:40:32.910 --> 01:40:35.400
Why are we separating
people based on their age

01:40:35.670 --> 01:40:39.480
as if that will, you're
five years old, this is

01:40:39.480 --> 01:40:40.410
what you have to learn.

01:40:40.530 --> 01:40:42.509
You're 12 years old
here, here's, here's

01:40:42.509 --> 01:40:43.410
what you need to know.

01:40:43.889 --> 01:40:48.300
I mean, my son's 12 and
he flies airplanes, not

01:40:48.389 --> 01:40:51.030
just the remote control
ones, but real airplanes.

01:40:51.090 --> 01:40:52.200
He hasn't
landed them yet.

01:40:52.259 --> 01:40:55.559
He does ground school
at the local uh,

01:40:56.179 --> 01:40:57.210
uh flight center.

01:40:57.300 --> 01:40:59.370
And that's his passion.

01:40:59.370 --> 01:41:00.570
That's what he's
interested in.

01:41:00.570 --> 01:41:02.790
What, what says,
and he's, he won't

01:41:02.790 --> 01:41:05.940
miss a, a, a date
of school, loves it.

01:41:05.969 --> 01:41:08.580
He's there on time,
gets dressed up for it

01:41:08.580 --> 01:41:10.469
because if the pilots
have to look presentable.

01:41:11.519 --> 01:41:13.740
I think the majority
of people who are

01:41:13.740 --> 01:41:17.880
being diagnosed as,
um, whatever abnormal

01:41:17.880 --> 01:41:21.000
personality or learning,
learning traits that

01:41:21.000 --> 01:41:24.220
they might have, are
because our current

01:41:24.720 --> 01:41:28.740
system isn't set up to
easily deal with all the

01:41:28.740 --> 01:41:31.110
different types of people
and how they learn.

01:41:31.320 --> 01:41:31.980
That, that's.

01:41:32.070 --> 01:41:35.280
How can it be
abnormal, when society

01:41:35.280 --> 01:41:36.360
is so abnormal.

01:41:37.140 --> 01:41:37.950
Well, and that's it.

01:41:38.520 --> 01:41:42.990
It's not necessarily, I
think the school system

01:41:43.110 --> 01:41:47.040
is largely, uh, geared
for many years uh,

01:41:47.070 --> 01:41:49.830
there's been a switch to
having a geared towards

01:41:50.380 --> 01:41:51.420
uh female learning.

01:41:51.720 --> 01:41:54.720
So a lot of men in the
school system will have

01:41:54.720 --> 01:41:57.060
a difficult time fitting
in within the same way

01:41:57.060 --> 01:41:59.820
that female learning
is, is conducted.

01:41:59.820 --> 01:42:01.770
There are differences
in gender and how

01:42:01.770 --> 01:42:02.760
people approach things.

01:42:02.760 --> 01:42:05.400
There are differences
in cultures of how

01:42:05.400 --> 01:42:06.180
people will learn.

01:42:06.990 --> 01:42:12.330
I am not entirely
convinced that ADHD

01:42:12.330 --> 01:42:15.480
in and of itself is
something that, um,

01:42:16.830 --> 01:42:18.150
I'll, I'll get myself
in trouble with the

01:42:18.150 --> 01:42:19.560
ADHD world out there.

01:42:20.010 --> 01:42:21.060
Uh, I don't know.

01:42:21.060 --> 01:42:23.460
I I'm like you, a lot of
people who are diagnosed

01:42:23.460 --> 01:42:25.440
with it, who just don't
have it, but you were,

01:42:25.980 --> 01:42:28.320
you were asking about
going out in the outside.

01:42:28.320 --> 01:42:29.049
Uhm trying to keep that.

01:42:29.049 --> 01:42:31.410
There's a solution by the
way, just to cut you off.

01:42:31.410 --> 01:42:32.910
And I apologize,
but the solution is

01:42:32.910 --> 01:42:33.930
always so simple.

01:42:34.380 --> 01:42:36.060
Time to book a
podcast, get one of

01:42:36.060 --> 01:42:37.500
these psychiatrists
on the show.

01:42:37.500 --> 01:42:38.880
I'd recommend my
sister-in-law, but

01:42:38.880 --> 01:42:40.980
she hasn't spent a day
of her life outside.

01:42:40.980 --> 01:42:43.920
So she is a moot point,
but, but, uh, that

01:42:43.920 --> 01:42:45.150
would be an excellent,
I would love to

01:42:45.150 --> 01:42:47.250
listen to you discuss
that with somebody.

01:42:47.520 --> 01:42:50.220
I think that would be
an interesting one to

01:42:50.220 --> 01:42:52.815
do and in fact I know
professionals in the

01:42:52.815 --> 01:42:55.035
industry, and I think
I'll have some contrary

01:42:55.425 --> 01:42:56.745
ideas and opinions.

01:42:57.615 --> 01:43:02.625
Growing up I was raised
and told I'm a square peg

01:43:03.224 --> 01:43:07.125
and all these teachers
are trying to hammer me

01:43:07.125 --> 01:43:08.415
into a round hole, right?

01:43:08.474 --> 01:43:11.445
Oh, I was raised in a
very antiestablishment

01:43:11.505 --> 01:43:13.275
us against them
sort of mentality.

01:43:13.995 --> 01:43:18.705
Um, I don't think that's
doing anybody any favors.

01:43:18.795 --> 01:43:22.545
If somebody has ADHD
or whatever it might

01:43:22.545 --> 01:43:25.965
be, telling them that
everybody else is wrong

01:43:25.995 --> 01:43:29.894
and they're right might
be a comforting platitude

01:43:29.985 --> 01:43:31.005
for a youngster.

01:43:31.514 --> 01:43:34.365
But providing that
youngster with the tools

01:43:34.365 --> 01:43:38.535
and skillset to be able
to operate within this

01:43:38.535 --> 01:43:43.155
world of round holes
is far more beneficial.

01:43:43.215 --> 01:43:46.215
So saying, well you're
just a hyperactive kid.

01:43:46.215 --> 01:43:48.675
You got ADHD or you got
dyslexia, or you have

01:43:48.675 --> 01:43:49.695
whatever it might be.

01:43:49.695 --> 01:43:51.434
Here's some pills,
you're different.

01:43:51.434 --> 01:43:53.355
Here you go over
there, we'll treat

01:43:53.355 --> 01:43:54.075
you differently.

01:43:54.885 --> 01:43:57.585
I think people would
be far better served

01:43:58.785 --> 01:44:01.665
if they looked at these
individuals and found

01:44:01.665 --> 01:44:03.825
what it was that truly
motivated or drove them.

01:44:03.945 --> 01:44:05.655
Cause you look at these
kids like, oh man, that

01:44:05.655 --> 01:44:08.295
kid is super lazy, but
they can sure spend all

01:44:08.295 --> 01:44:10.245
day in front of the TV
playing video games.

01:44:11.295 --> 01:44:13.305
It's not that they're
necessarily lazy,

01:44:13.305 --> 01:44:14.715
it's just that you're
not engaging them.

01:44:15.045 --> 01:44:16.815
You're not providing
them an environment

01:44:16.815 --> 01:44:19.965
that speaks to what
their attention needs.

01:44:20.235 --> 01:44:23.865
So find a way to be able
to speak to the kids and

01:44:23.865 --> 01:44:27.015
to people who have ADHD
or whatever it might be.

01:44:27.405 --> 01:44:28.695
And I think you're
going to find that the

01:44:28.695 --> 01:44:34.275
whole, um, ADHD, ADHD
thing greatly reduces in

01:44:34.275 --> 01:44:37.005
spectrum of who actually
has it and who doesn't.

01:44:37.455 --> 01:44:37.845
Yeah.

01:44:37.995 --> 01:44:38.265
Yeah.

01:44:38.295 --> 01:44:39.855
Well, I think that you
should take that on.

01:44:39.915 --> 01:44:40.695
Spearhead that one.

01:44:40.695 --> 01:44:42.255
I've thought about
it before on my show,

01:44:42.615 --> 01:44:44.415
but, um, it just never
got around to it.

01:44:44.415 --> 01:44:47.655
And I also don't feel,
as I'm being pushed away

01:44:47.655 --> 01:44:48.525
from my interference.

01:44:48.525 --> 01:44:48.825
Sorry.

01:44:49.605 --> 01:44:52.935
Um, I also don't feel
like I could speak

01:44:52.935 --> 01:44:54.495
on it to the same
with, at the same

01:44:54.495 --> 01:44:56.735
depth that you can so.

01:44:56.765 --> 01:44:58.215
Do you feel like
you've got ADHD?

01:44:58.875 --> 01:45:01.785
No, I never did feel
that way because I

01:45:01.845 --> 01:45:03.645
mean, I could never
stay focused at school.

01:45:03.705 --> 01:45:06.345
I fell asleep in class,
but I just knew it

01:45:06.345 --> 01:45:08.535
was because they were
boring me to tears.

01:45:08.535 --> 01:45:12.195
I was not being
challenged and, and

01:45:12.195 --> 01:45:12.915
I worked around it.

01:45:12.915 --> 01:45:14.595
I mean, I, when, when I
was in the 10th grade, I

01:45:14.595 --> 01:45:16.545
said, mom, they're not,
it's not working for me.

01:45:16.905 --> 01:45:18.405
I want to go into an
advanced, advanced

01:45:18.405 --> 01:45:19.155
placement course.

01:45:19.485 --> 01:45:20.115
And so I did.

01:45:20.145 --> 01:45:22.485
And so instead of going
to school in Surrey, high

01:45:22.485 --> 01:45:24.675
school, I went to Clayton
Heights the first year

01:45:24.675 --> 01:45:25.995
that it opened because
they had an advanced

01:45:25.995 --> 01:45:26.745
placement course.

01:45:27.825 --> 01:45:29.445
And, um, and look that
worked a little bit,

01:45:29.445 --> 01:45:31.035
I was a little bit
more challenged, but I

01:45:31.035 --> 01:45:32.985
realized very quickly
because I was working

01:45:33.045 --> 01:45:33.855
throughout both jobs.

01:45:33.855 --> 01:45:36.045
That just what I was
interested in, which was

01:45:36.285 --> 01:45:38.805
investing, like I said, I
started investing at 16.

01:45:39.045 --> 01:45:40.335
I was interested in
things that they just

01:45:40.335 --> 01:45:40.875
weren't teaching.

01:45:41.595 --> 01:45:43.215
And so I thought that
college was going to

01:45:43.215 --> 01:45:44.775
be the, the answer, you
know, then I can pick and

01:45:44.775 --> 01:45:47.825
choose things that will
challenge me, but all it,

01:45:47.825 --> 01:45:48.595
it worked the opposite.

01:45:49.170 --> 01:45:51.000
It made me realize,
okay, so I'm going to

01:45:51.000 --> 01:45:53.160
school though, to get,
cause I'm a long-term

01:45:53.160 --> 01:45:54.990
player, this job.

01:45:55.440 --> 01:45:57.240
And then what is this
job, what is this

01:45:57.240 --> 01:45:58.760
job gonna do for me?

01:45:58.770 --> 01:46:01.020
All, it's going to stick
me right back in the

01:46:01.020 --> 01:46:02.820
same bloody nine to five
that I've been trying

01:46:02.820 --> 01:46:03.780
to escape my whole life.

01:46:03.780 --> 01:46:05.940
So for me, that was
when it all kind of

01:46:05.940 --> 01:46:07.560
full circled back
to, you know, okay.

01:46:07.560 --> 01:46:09.690
So I need to live,
I clearly need to

01:46:09.690 --> 01:46:11.520
be outside because
it's the only thing

01:46:11.520 --> 01:46:13.290
that challenges me
and keeps me engaged.

01:46:13.470 --> 01:46:15.480
Say that in business,
those are my two things.

01:46:15.870 --> 01:46:16.410
What do you know?

01:46:16.410 --> 01:46:17.310
They work well together.

01:46:17.310 --> 01:46:19.920
You do the challenging
outdoor stuff in the

01:46:19.920 --> 01:46:21.420
day and you can do the
challenging business

01:46:21.420 --> 01:46:21.960
stuff at night.

01:46:22.560 --> 01:46:24.270
And so the two went hand
in hand, I dropped out of

01:46:24.270 --> 01:46:25.440
college and here we are.

01:46:27.600 --> 01:46:29.940
Do you find that funny
that two people who

01:46:29.940 --> 01:46:33.840
had difficulties in the
traditional school system

01:46:33.960 --> 01:46:36.900
have gone on and operate
training companies?

01:46:37.500 --> 01:46:40.140
Oh, I have never
thought about that.

01:46:40.680 --> 01:46:42.810
I think, cause I'm still
so new to this, right?

01:46:42.810 --> 01:46:45.060
This is only my second
year at this game.

01:46:45.600 --> 01:46:47.310
Uh, and if you remember,
when I started Anchored

01:46:47.310 --> 01:46:49.260
Outdoors, I didn't
know where I was going.

01:46:49.680 --> 01:46:51.660
I just thought I was
gonna, I mean, the

01:46:51.660 --> 01:46:54.210
show was a storytelling
platform and I thought

01:46:54.210 --> 01:46:55.950
we were going to
continue storytelling,

01:46:55.950 --> 01:46:58.680
but then I listened to
my audience and they

01:46:58.680 --> 01:46:59.780
wanted more instruction.

01:46:59.830 --> 01:47:02.670
So it's, it's,
it's, it's evolved

01:47:02.850 --> 01:47:03.840
naturally that way.

01:47:04.410 --> 01:47:06.600
I don't know, ask me
again in five years.

01:47:06.810 --> 01:47:08.400
I know that, like
I said, I've never

01:47:08.400 --> 01:47:09.540
felt so fulfilled.

01:47:10.890 --> 01:47:13.260
So I mean, I really feel
like I'm giving back.

01:47:13.260 --> 01:47:14.700
I genuinely
feel like that.

01:47:16.260 --> 01:47:18.450
You're an incredibly
good instructor.

01:47:18.510 --> 01:47:19.060
I watched.

01:47:19.060 --> 01:47:19.430
Oh thank you.

01:47:19.430 --> 01:47:19.710
You teach.

01:47:19.920 --> 01:47:21.210
You've got stuff online.

01:47:21.210 --> 01:47:23.340
You've the way that you
communicate to people.

01:47:24.330 --> 01:47:27.030
Have you had any training
in that respect or is

01:47:27.030 --> 01:47:28.920
it just what you feel
comes natural to you?

01:47:29.250 --> 01:47:29.490
Yeah.

01:47:29.490 --> 01:47:30.570
Now it just
comes natural.

01:47:30.570 --> 01:47:33.120
I really, I really enjoy
teaching fly fishing.

01:47:34.530 --> 01:47:34.860
Yeah.

01:47:34.920 --> 01:47:35.929
Well, you're
really good at it.

01:47:35.929 --> 01:47:36.340
Awe thanks.

01:47:36.340 --> 01:47:40.170
And you're able to get
complex, complex ideas

01:47:40.170 --> 01:47:43.470
across in a very simple
fashion and yeah, no,

01:47:43.470 --> 01:47:46.950
you're a I in a good
hearted way as well.

01:47:47.430 --> 01:47:49.080
You did you get into
teaching because it

01:47:49.080 --> 01:47:51.510
was your, a way to kind
of buck the system or

01:47:51.510 --> 01:47:53.340
do you think it just
happened unintentionally?

01:47:54.630 --> 01:47:57.030
Well, when I was 12
years old, I got into

01:47:57.030 --> 01:48:00.720
the army cadet movement
and I, through that

01:48:00.720 --> 01:48:03.420
learned man management
and method of instruction

01:48:03.420 --> 01:48:05.570
from the department and
the national defense's

01:48:05.700 --> 01:48:06.900
standpoint anyways.

01:48:07.860 --> 01:48:10.950
And I found, I thrived.

01:48:10.950 --> 01:48:12.480
I was actually pretty
good at it and it was a

01:48:12.480 --> 01:48:14.490
lot of fun and I enjoyed
getting up there and

01:48:14.490 --> 01:48:16.560
teaching people, I was
never the type of person

01:48:16.560 --> 01:48:18.270
who wanted to be at
the front of the class.

01:48:18.900 --> 01:48:24.150
Yet I was able to,
I, I was able to do

01:48:24.150 --> 01:48:27.000
it in a way that,
uh, was helping other

01:48:27.000 --> 01:48:28.080
people learn skills.

01:48:28.080 --> 01:48:30.690
And so I had to learn
how to be the person

01:48:30.690 --> 01:48:32.040
who's up in the front
of the class and not

01:48:32.040 --> 01:48:33.090
just be the gray man.

01:48:33.840 --> 01:48:37.380
And consequently, I
started doing some

01:48:37.770 --> 01:48:39.540
training at the Justice
Institute of British

01:48:39.540 --> 01:48:41.490
Columbia as a teenager.

01:48:41.700 --> 01:48:46.065
And uh, enhancing what
I knew and I just found

01:48:46.065 --> 01:48:48.585
some natural things that
I could do, while I was

01:48:48.585 --> 01:48:50.835
still going to school
and do some training

01:48:50.835 --> 01:48:53.865
programs on, on weekends.

01:48:54.764 --> 01:48:57.644
That was never
supposed to be what

01:48:58.035 --> 01:48:59.144
the business model was.

01:48:59.174 --> 01:49:00.825
It was just something
I did that I enjoy.

01:49:00.865 --> 01:49:02.415
The business model
was supposed to be,

01:49:03.105 --> 01:49:08.985
uh, more machining and
woodworking and, uh,

01:49:09.884 --> 01:49:12.344
basically doing it being
a self-taught millwright

01:49:12.344 --> 01:49:14.085
and the gunsmithing
all around that.

01:49:14.085 --> 01:49:16.485
Cause I, I really
enjoy creating things.

01:49:17.264 --> 01:49:20.594
I realized after the
first year or two,

01:49:21.165 --> 01:49:25.224
that if, unless you've,
unless you're a ticketed

01:49:25.224 --> 01:49:28.964
millwright and you want
to be able to do this

01:49:28.964 --> 01:49:31.544
as a business, uh, most
people don't want to pay

01:49:31.544 --> 01:49:35.205
a kid top dollar to work
or build them stuff.

01:49:35.535 --> 01:49:37.634
Most people will trade
you three-year-old

01:49:37.634 --> 01:49:39.834
freezer burnt venison or.

01:49:39.834 --> 01:49:40.355
Excuse me.

01:49:40.575 --> 01:49:40.825
Bear meat.

01:49:40.825 --> 01:49:42.224
Different bits of
parts and pieces.

01:49:42.934 --> 01:49:43.785
Oh, totally right.

01:49:44.325 --> 01:49:45.525
I got some great
bear meat for ya.

01:49:45.525 --> 01:49:46.125
Story of my life.

01:49:46.125 --> 01:49:47.445
Don't get me wrong,
I love bear meat.

01:49:49.634 --> 01:49:54.855
And uh, so I, it, that,
and the fact that every

01:49:54.855 --> 01:49:57.315
job that came in was
different and in order to

01:49:57.315 --> 01:50:02.804
be able to, uh, well, oh,
well that is interesting.

01:50:03.134 --> 01:50:05.655
It doesn't have a
replicatable, uh,

01:50:05.684 --> 01:50:08.835
business model for
long-term success.

01:50:09.075 --> 01:50:13.769
You're basically,
your your, the person

01:50:13.769 --> 01:50:15.690
working behind the
counter at your local

01:50:16.259 --> 01:50:18.419
corner store, you're
running a business.

01:50:18.540 --> 01:50:19.650
It's the same thing.

01:50:19.860 --> 01:50:22.980
It's a model that's
in place that I didn't

01:50:22.980 --> 01:50:26.639
find very fulfilling
in a creative process.

01:50:26.820 --> 01:50:28.110
So that's, that's
why I took it to

01:50:28.110 --> 01:50:28.740
the training side.

01:50:28.740 --> 01:50:32.580
Cause I just, I saw
so much that I could

01:50:32.580 --> 01:50:35.070
do to help others
meet their needs.

01:50:35.730 --> 01:50:38.339
And I thought I've
always felt it was a

01:50:38.339 --> 01:50:39.839
fulfilling thing for me.

01:50:40.230 --> 01:50:44.400
And I could see the,
um, the growth industry.

01:50:45.179 --> 01:50:46.710
Yep, absolutely.

01:50:46.830 --> 01:50:47.280
I love it.

01:50:47.820 --> 01:50:49.320
What other questions
have you got?

01:50:50.339 --> 01:50:50.610
Okay.

01:50:50.610 --> 01:50:52.950
Here's one, what's
a question that

01:50:52.950 --> 01:50:54.419
people should ask
you, but haven't yet?

01:50:54.469 --> 01:50:56.819
That sounds like
a TikTok skit.

01:50:57.059 --> 01:50:57.629
I know.

01:50:59.460 --> 01:51:00.839
That's actually a
really good question.

01:51:03.240 --> 01:51:04.530
I don't know.

01:51:04.559 --> 01:51:07.950
There's a few,
I don't know.

01:51:08.469 --> 01:51:10.150
Because there's going to
be experiences in your

01:51:10.150 --> 01:51:12.429
life that will bring
value to other people

01:51:12.429 --> 01:51:16.269
that they can learn from,
that either people have

01:51:16.269 --> 01:51:21.429
shied away from asking
you, or it's off-brand

01:51:21.610 --> 01:51:23.769
to, to whatever the,
uh, the platform that

01:51:23.769 --> 01:51:24.549
you're currently on.

01:51:26.169 --> 01:51:29.559
Um, I think, and this
isn't something I want

01:51:29.559 --> 01:51:31.540
to go into now, but I
think a question that

01:51:31.540 --> 01:51:33.370
would S that people
don't ask me, but they

01:51:33.370 --> 01:51:35.799
should, is probably
politically, which side

01:51:35.799 --> 01:51:36.580
of the fence I sit on.

01:51:36.669 --> 01:51:38.469
I think a lot of
people assume to know

01:51:38.469 --> 01:51:41.500
my thoughts on things
and they have no idea.

01:51:42.259 --> 01:51:42.780
Um.

01:51:42.825 --> 01:51:43.555
You're libertarian.

01:51:43.705 --> 01:51:44.755
Already know it.

01:51:44.805 --> 01:51:45.705
You'd be surprised.

01:51:46.725 --> 01:51:47.745
You'd be surprised.

01:51:47.805 --> 01:51:49.575
Uh, I'm definitely, I
think I'm a rational

01:51:49.575 --> 01:51:52.635
human being and I see
both sides, but yeah,

01:51:52.695 --> 01:51:54.285
I think that would
surprise a lot of people.

01:51:54.405 --> 01:51:57.735
What I'm afraid of um,
I think would probably

01:51:57.735 --> 01:51:59.025
surprise some people.

01:51:59.085 --> 01:52:00.405
That's a pretty shallow
one, I mean, I'm

01:52:00.405 --> 01:52:01.365
afraid of the dark.

01:52:01.365 --> 01:52:03.135
It's pretty simple one,
but something that I

01:52:03.135 --> 01:52:04.755
think what surprise a lot
of people is my opinion

01:52:04.755 --> 01:52:06.875
on masculinity and men.

01:52:07.425 --> 01:52:07.655
Okay.

01:52:07.655 --> 01:52:09.975
Because recently with,
you know, in light of

01:52:09.975 --> 01:52:10.935
all the me too stuff.

01:52:10.965 --> 01:52:13.275
And like you'd mentioned
earlier, just bringing

01:52:13.275 --> 01:52:15.405
it back to what you said
about female based, I

01:52:15.405 --> 01:52:16.555
think you said education.

01:52:17.985 --> 01:52:18.275
Right.

01:52:18.275 --> 01:52:20.235
Um I think that people
would be surprised to

01:52:20.235 --> 01:52:25.455
hear my thoughts and
opinions on men today.

01:52:26.235 --> 01:52:30.045
Given I have such an
interesting history

01:52:30.045 --> 01:52:31.515
of men with my career.

01:52:31.605 --> 01:52:32.715
You know, I hear
that all the time.

01:52:32.715 --> 01:52:34.245
What's it like to
be a woman in a male

01:52:34.245 --> 01:52:35.325
dominated industry.

01:52:35.715 --> 01:52:38.925
And I have got stories
for days, stories for

01:52:38.925 --> 01:52:41.445
days about horrible
things about men

01:52:41.895 --> 01:52:42.555
in the industry.

01:52:42.885 --> 01:52:43.065
Right.

01:52:43.095 --> 01:52:46.095
But that doesn't
make me look at men

01:52:46.125 --> 01:52:47.055
differently today.

01:52:47.505 --> 01:52:49.605
Um, like I think, I
mean, it does for sure.

01:52:49.605 --> 01:52:50.565
I look at the industry.

01:52:51.405 --> 01:52:53.565
I'm very jaded when I
look at the industry and

01:52:53.565 --> 01:52:56.085
certain professionals,
but I think that a lot

01:52:56.085 --> 01:52:58.035
of people assume I'm on
board with this whole

01:52:58.465 --> 01:53:01.125
woman push because I am
admittedly a feminist,

01:53:01.125 --> 01:53:02.835
back in the day, what
feminist used to be,

01:53:02.835 --> 01:53:04.815
which was just like
equality for both sides.

01:53:04.815 --> 01:53:05.025
Sure.

01:53:05.205 --> 01:53:07.785
Before we started tickets
to this radical extreme,

01:53:08.205 --> 01:53:10.125
but I think people
would be surprised to

01:53:10.125 --> 01:53:14.085
know my take on toxic
masculinity, which is

01:53:14.085 --> 01:53:16.184
interesting because
you may be somebody who

01:53:16.184 --> 01:53:18.585
is deemed as, I mean,
do you open the door

01:53:18.585 --> 01:53:19.835
for women these days?

01:53:21.545 --> 01:53:21.795
Yes.

01:53:21.795 --> 01:53:23.004
You know, that's frowned
upon, right, like.

01:53:23.004 --> 01:53:23.235
I do.

01:53:23.235 --> 01:53:24.735
In some circles
that's really frowned.

01:53:24.735 --> 01:53:25.065
Is that bad?

01:53:25.065 --> 01:53:25.195
Upon.

01:53:25.195 --> 01:53:25.945
Yeah yeah.

01:53:25.945 --> 01:53:26.735
Um, um.

01:53:26.835 --> 01:53:28.995
I, I am, I am so
out of touch with,

01:53:29.054 --> 01:53:30.134
with all that stuff.

01:53:30.165 --> 01:53:32.714
I, I might be a bit of
a luddite on it, but

01:53:32.714 --> 01:53:36.075
I, I I've had younger
generations look at me

01:53:36.105 --> 01:53:40.815
and, uh, I know like I'm
a, like, I'm a dinosaur.

01:53:40.815 --> 01:53:42.554
Those in their
twenties and thirties.

01:53:42.585 --> 01:53:44.894
I'm not that much
older, but they look

01:53:44.894 --> 01:53:47.924
at me like, I'm just
like, not in a bad way.

01:53:47.924 --> 01:53:50.594
Like I've had people
admire me cause, you're

01:53:50.594 --> 01:53:54.254
were so manly, and I'm
like, compared to what?

01:53:54.525 --> 01:53:54.795
Right.

01:53:54.825 --> 01:53:56.955
Well nowadays, and I
think, so I think that's

01:53:56.955 --> 01:53:58.905
something that, and it
will all circle back

01:53:58.905 --> 01:54:01.065
to politically, but
that's just one element.

01:54:01.155 --> 01:54:02.745
That's probably
the safest, most

01:54:03.165 --> 01:54:05.415
relatable element,
just because, like I

01:54:05.415 --> 01:54:07.365
said, fly fishing as a
woman in fly fishing.

01:54:07.724 --> 01:54:09.464
I think that is one
conversation that

01:54:09.464 --> 01:54:11.085
would surprise people
is that I don't,

01:54:11.625 --> 01:54:12.764
I'm not against men.

01:54:12.825 --> 01:54:13.424
I love men.

01:54:13.424 --> 01:54:15.344
I'm married to
an alpha male.

01:54:15.375 --> 01:54:16.815
I'm probably an
alpha female.

01:54:16.815 --> 01:54:18.144
Our marriage is
very interesting.

01:54:18.684 --> 01:54:19.485
Um, but.

01:54:19.514 --> 01:54:19.965
Yes.

01:54:19.965 --> 01:54:24.125
I am definitely not, even
though I'm for equality.

01:54:24.180 --> 01:54:27.240
I think that it's been
taken too far recently,

01:54:27.570 --> 01:54:29.730
so that is always a
topic over a whiskey

01:54:29.730 --> 01:54:31.800
or a glass of wine
that is surprising

01:54:32.130 --> 01:54:34.260
to very close friends
of mine when we start

01:54:34.260 --> 01:54:35.340
to go down that road.

01:54:37.680 --> 01:54:38.070
Yeah.

01:54:38.490 --> 01:54:41.790
I, I think that there's
a lot of people that

01:54:41.790 --> 01:54:44.700
form their opinions
on whatever might be

01:54:44.700 --> 01:54:47.010
going on at the current
time based on what

01:54:47.010 --> 01:54:48.840
the popular wave is.

01:54:48.840 --> 01:54:51.570
And they're afraid to
buck that trend and

01:54:51.570 --> 01:54:53.970
they lack the moral
fortitude and integrity

01:54:54.300 --> 01:54:56.460
to be able to stand up
and say, you know what?

01:54:56.970 --> 01:54:58.650
This is how I
feel and why.

01:54:58.770 --> 01:55:00.420
Or like, I'm okay if
somebody holds the

01:55:00.420 --> 01:55:02.880
door open for me in
the same breath, I, I'm

01:55:02.880 --> 01:55:03.840
not going to be upset.

01:55:03.840 --> 01:55:06.030
If a woman holds the door
open for me, that's fine.

01:55:06.300 --> 01:55:07.950
I probably end up
grabbing it and say,

01:55:07.950 --> 01:55:09.360
after you, not a
problem, cause that's

01:55:09.360 --> 01:55:10.200
how I was raised.

01:55:10.770 --> 01:55:12.090
And in fact, I
did that today.

01:55:12.390 --> 01:55:15.360
I opened, I scooted
up in front, I had a

01:55:15.360 --> 01:55:19.320
meeting with a, uh,
with the person that

01:55:19.350 --> 01:55:21.120
we do business with
and I scooted up in

01:55:21.120 --> 01:55:22.440
front and opened the
door to the restaurant

01:55:22.440 --> 01:55:24.480
for her, not even
thinking twice about it.

01:55:24.540 --> 01:55:25.290
And now that you bring.

01:55:25.290 --> 01:55:26.820
That's, that's toxic
masculinity right

01:55:26.820 --> 01:55:27.720
there at its finest.

01:55:29.130 --> 01:55:30.400
Is that what they sayin?

01:55:30.450 --> 01:55:32.370
I think I
haven't listened.

01:55:32.400 --> 01:55:36.810
I admittedly listen
to an unhealthy amount

01:55:36.810 --> 01:55:37.610
of Jordan Peterson.

01:55:38.700 --> 01:55:40.450
Which I don't know if
there's such a thing.

01:55:40.450 --> 01:55:42.285
For certain people
though, for certain

01:55:42.285 --> 01:55:43.724
people, they've
listened to one eight

01:55:43.724 --> 01:55:45.735
minute segment on
YouTube and they know

01:55:45.735 --> 01:55:47.594
enough about him and
they've automatically

01:55:47.594 --> 01:55:48.105
pigeonholed me.

01:55:48.105 --> 01:55:50.384
They've just put me
in a box that I am,

01:55:50.445 --> 01:55:52.575
you know, of one
mindset or the other.

01:55:52.575 --> 01:55:55.155
I don't agree with
everything he says, but,

01:55:55.214 --> 01:55:57.825
um, but yeah, I mean, in
some people's viewpoints

01:55:57.825 --> 01:55:59.865
back to holding a door
open, that would be

01:56:00.105 --> 01:56:01.905
something that would
be highly offensive.

01:56:02.384 --> 01:56:03.825
And this is all very new.

01:56:03.825 --> 01:56:06.915
So I think I, and
again, I don't open

01:56:06.915 --> 01:56:09.044
this crazy can of like
enormous earthworms

01:56:09.044 --> 01:56:11.054
here, but politically
all of it right now,

01:56:11.084 --> 01:56:15.644
the whole disaster of
cancel culture, the

01:56:15.644 --> 01:56:18.584
trans movement, which
again, I'm not against

01:56:18.674 --> 01:56:19.785
any of these things.

01:56:19.844 --> 01:56:22.905
I just believe in, like,
if you call me a birthing

01:56:22.905 --> 01:56:25.724
parent, I'm going to
punch you in the face.

01:56:27.495 --> 01:56:28.394
And I'm serious.

01:56:28.544 --> 01:56:31.365
That is really, really
offensive to me right?

01:56:31.365 --> 01:56:32.294
Like I just.

01:56:32.985 --> 01:56:33.714
You heard of this.

01:56:33.714 --> 01:56:35.924
So you're gonna have
to tell me, I'm sorry.

01:56:35.924 --> 01:56:37.035
You're going to have
to fill me in, what's

01:56:37.035 --> 01:56:37.665
a birthing parent?

01:56:37.665 --> 01:56:38.455
Oh, oh oh, a
mother, mother.

01:56:38.474 --> 01:56:39.495
And listen, this
is, these are real

01:56:39.495 --> 01:56:40.125
conversations.

01:56:40.125 --> 01:56:41.834
I had it out with a 25
year old, the other day,

01:56:41.834 --> 01:56:45.945
a very well enjoyable
two hour long debate

01:56:46.455 --> 01:56:49.575
about this, but it is
offensive now to call a

01:56:49.575 --> 01:56:52.455
mother, a mother, because
it could be exclusive to

01:56:52.455 --> 01:56:54.825
people who aren't women.

01:56:55.334 --> 01:56:56.084
What is a woman?

01:56:56.655 --> 01:56:58.724
The words, woman,
woman is now offensive.

01:56:58.875 --> 01:57:01.754
So if you, if you're
now having a baby,

01:57:01.754 --> 01:57:04.275
you are called up
birthing parent.

01:57:05.794 --> 01:57:06.424
Birthing unit.

01:57:06.424 --> 01:57:06.855
Parent.

01:57:07.084 --> 01:57:08.544
Parent.

01:57:08.544 --> 01:57:11.034
You are a birthing unit.

01:57:11.034 --> 01:57:12.934
A birthing person
or birthing parents.

01:57:12.934 --> 01:57:13.514
That's right.

01:57:13.514 --> 01:57:15.915
So, so I think, I think
just, you know, for

01:57:15.915 --> 01:57:17.985
entertainment sake,
I think that would be

01:57:18.045 --> 01:57:19.515
something that would
surprise a lot of people

01:57:19.515 --> 01:57:23.895
is my, um, which is
my political stance, I

01:57:23.895 --> 01:57:25.695
think would be probably
quite surprising

01:57:25.695 --> 01:57:26.505
to a lot of people.

01:57:27.075 --> 01:57:29.565
Given, given the
feedback, people send me

01:57:29.565 --> 01:57:32.895
articles and people send
me posts on social media

01:57:32.895 --> 01:57:34.725
and they're like, you'll
really like this, and

01:57:34.725 --> 01:57:36.045
I'm going, why on earth?

01:57:36.465 --> 01:57:38.385
Do you think because I
was bullied by men that

01:57:38.385 --> 01:57:39.525
I'm going to like that.

01:57:40.005 --> 01:57:41.625
Or do you think, because
I look at Patagonia

01:57:41.625 --> 01:57:43.365
that I'm this crazy
liberal, like you need

01:57:43.365 --> 01:57:45.915
to take a step back and,
and do you think that

01:57:45.915 --> 01:57:47.865
I automatically would
vote for Biden because

01:57:47.865 --> 01:57:49.845
you think, you know,
my stance on certain

01:57:49.845 --> 01:57:50.895
conservation issues?

01:57:51.225 --> 01:57:52.665
I, I, so I think
politically I would

01:57:52.665 --> 01:57:56.795
surprise a lot of people
with the new movement and

01:57:56.805 --> 01:58:00.735
this new, um, world of
woke-ism, which again,

01:58:00.735 --> 01:58:02.805
I agree with some of it
and strongly disagree

01:58:02.805 --> 01:58:03.735
with other parts of it.

01:58:03.735 --> 01:58:07.065
So let's just say, um, I
listened to Ben Shapiro a

01:58:07.065 --> 01:58:09.105
lot, even though we don't
agree with everything,

01:58:09.735 --> 01:58:10.285
you know, I, I.

01:58:10.395 --> 01:58:11.475
That guys sharp
as a whip.

01:58:11.475 --> 01:58:12.045
He's great.

01:58:12.285 --> 01:58:12.945
Years ago.

01:58:12.945 --> 01:58:14.975
But a lot of people
right now will tusk,

01:58:14.975 --> 01:58:15.915
stop listening to me.

01:58:16.275 --> 01:58:17.625
They, if they don't
dislike me already,

01:58:17.625 --> 01:58:19.515
they'll dislike me after
this because they will

01:58:19.515 --> 01:58:22.095
assume that I have to
be on one side of the

01:58:22.155 --> 01:58:23.445
one side or the other.

01:58:23.625 --> 01:58:25.665
So I think that that's,
um, that's just always

01:58:25.665 --> 01:58:27.845
interesting to me that
we, as people, whether it

01:58:27.845 --> 01:58:30.810
be social media tidbits,
or whether it be just

01:58:30.810 --> 01:58:33.300
putting someone in a box
politically or at work

01:58:33.330 --> 01:58:34.260
within the outdoors.

01:58:34.560 --> 01:58:36.900
I get very frustrated
with the fact that we

01:58:36.900 --> 01:58:39.270
seem to have discredited
the amount of depth

01:58:39.270 --> 01:58:41.010
that human beings
can actually have.

01:58:43.470 --> 01:58:44.340
Yeah, I agree.

01:58:44.460 --> 01:58:46.800
And just a quick segue,
the Ben Shapiro one,

01:58:46.800 --> 01:58:50.070
years ago, uh, I guess
he came over to UBC and

01:58:50.070 --> 01:58:52.650
he was giving a lecture
and I was contacted

01:58:52.650 --> 01:58:53.820
by somebody, they
reached out and they

01:58:53.820 --> 01:58:56.430
said, you want to be a
sponsor at this event,

01:58:56.460 --> 01:58:57.540
we got Ben Shapiro.

01:58:57.540 --> 01:58:58.380
It's going to be awesome.

01:58:58.380 --> 01:58:59.340
And I said, who?

01:58:59.690 --> 01:59:01.480
Like, I don't know
who this guy is right.

01:59:01.480 --> 01:59:03.510
And, and, uh, they
said, oh, it'll be

01:59:03.600 --> 01:59:04.500
totally on brand.

01:59:04.500 --> 01:59:06.870
Because like, right-wing
like firearms owners

01:59:06.870 --> 01:59:08.070
and these kind of
people they're going

01:59:08.070 --> 01:59:09.450
to love, love him.

01:59:09.450 --> 01:59:10.850
Like, this is what you
want to be involved with.

01:59:10.880 --> 01:59:12.180
I'm like, yeah,
no, thanks.

01:59:12.210 --> 01:59:14.610
Like this guy seems
like too hot to touch.

01:59:14.610 --> 01:59:16.320
I've quickly did
a quick YouTube.

01:59:16.320 --> 01:59:18.920
And, and I, I didn't
know much about him.

01:59:18.920 --> 01:59:20.970
Other than that, people
were like rioting

01:59:20.970 --> 01:59:23.130
and, and trying to
drive him out to

01:59:23.130 --> 01:59:23.880
different audiences.

01:59:24.030 --> 01:59:25.860
In hindsight, it would
have been awesome to

01:59:25.860 --> 01:59:27.720
sponsor that event and
get to meet the guy

01:59:27.720 --> 01:59:30.210
because, you know, he's
extremely sharp, albeit

01:59:30.210 --> 01:59:33.060
sometimes controversial,
oftentimes controversial.

01:59:33.510 --> 01:59:35.640
Uh, and he takes a
different approach than

01:59:35.670 --> 01:59:40.530
Peterson, for example,
uh, where Peterson, I

01:59:40.710 --> 01:59:42.750
don't want to ascribe
a percentage, but if I

01:59:42.750 --> 01:59:45.360
was asked to, I would
say almost 90% of

01:59:45.360 --> 01:59:47.790
what Peterson comes up
with are questions or

01:59:47.790 --> 01:59:51.000
observations, they're
not, you have to do this.

01:59:51.000 --> 01:59:52.470
There are some things
that you'll get hard

01:59:52.470 --> 01:59:54.300
and fast on, but for
the most part, he thinks

01:59:54.300 --> 01:59:56.430
really hard and really
deeply about things.

01:59:57.240 --> 02:00:00.720
And ask certain things
like why is it that A,

02:00:00.720 --> 02:00:05.070
B and C, and it's very
easy to debate or it's,

02:00:05.910 --> 02:00:07.170
he's a very good debater.

02:00:08.280 --> 02:00:10.950
It's easier to debate a
position when you're not

02:00:10.950 --> 02:00:14.580
taking that firm stance
on certain things when

02:00:14.580 --> 02:00:16.200
you're actually asking
questions and putting

02:00:16.200 --> 02:00:18.690
the other person on that,
that, and so I think the

02:00:18.690 --> 02:00:20.520
majority of what Peterson
comes up with actually

02:00:20.520 --> 02:00:21.750
isn't controversial.

02:00:22.080 --> 02:00:22.510
It's just.

02:00:22.510 --> 02:00:23.480
Thought provoking.

02:00:24.740 --> 02:00:24.890
People.

02:00:24.890 --> 02:00:25.140
Right.

02:00:25.200 --> 02:00:30.450
And so I find people are
so intertwined with their

02:00:30.450 --> 02:00:33.870
political ideologies
nowadays, more so than

02:00:33.870 --> 02:00:35.520
ever, in such a way.

02:00:35.520 --> 02:00:36.630
And this is funny
because it's something

02:00:36.630 --> 02:00:39.120
I talked about a couple
of days ago with Sonny,

02:00:39.120 --> 02:00:44.100
the ex British special
forces commando, just

02:00:44.130 --> 02:00:46.740
so closely intertwined.

02:00:46.830 --> 02:00:49.590
I am liberal or I am
conservative, or I am

02:00:49.590 --> 02:00:50.610
whatever it might be.

02:00:50.610 --> 02:00:52.920
And if somebody asks
some questions about

02:00:52.920 --> 02:00:56.310
it or, uh, shines
light on other possible

02:00:56.620 --> 02:00:58.120
alternatives, it's.

02:00:58.120 --> 02:00:58.740
They're shunned.

02:00:58.740 --> 02:01:01.320
It seems to fundamentally
offend them at their

02:01:01.320 --> 02:01:03.570
core because they
said, that's me.

02:01:03.600 --> 02:01:06.900
How can, how can you
look at me and ask

02:01:06.900 --> 02:01:09.930
those sort of questions,
whether that be gender

02:01:09.930 --> 02:01:12.990
identity, whether that be
like you're saying, um,

02:01:13.860 --> 02:01:16.860
uh, toxic masculinity.

02:01:16.950 --> 02:01:18.780
I mean, this is what
everyone's saying.

02:01:18.810 --> 02:01:19.980
This is what
you have to do.

02:01:20.340 --> 02:01:20.640
Yeah.

02:01:20.700 --> 02:01:23.880
It's, it's human nature.

02:01:24.750 --> 02:01:25.110
I think.

02:01:25.905 --> 02:01:27.795
At its very core,
its human nature

02:01:27.795 --> 02:01:28.755
wanting to belong.

02:01:29.565 --> 02:01:34.305
And I remember being
raised, I mean my, my

02:01:34.305 --> 02:01:35.805
father would always
point out someone who's

02:01:35.805 --> 02:01:38.265
got a spiked hair cut
or dyed hair or someone

02:01:38.265 --> 02:01:38.925
wearing an earring.

02:01:38.925 --> 02:01:40.335
It's like, look
at this person and

02:01:40.335 --> 02:01:41.085
trying to be cool.

02:01:41.085 --> 02:01:42.915
Just trying to be
original, just like

02:01:42.915 --> 02:01:43.755
everybody else.

02:01:43.755 --> 02:01:44.055
Right.

02:01:44.625 --> 02:01:49.215
Well, interesting
observation from, from

02:01:49.215 --> 02:01:52.305
the beat cops detect or
beat cops perspective.

02:01:52.815 --> 02:01:55.125
Um, but it's the
same thing now.

02:01:55.395 --> 02:01:56.385
People want to belong.

02:01:57.045 --> 02:02:01.305
They want to know they're
lacking an identity of

02:02:01.305 --> 02:02:04.695
their own and they're
trying very hard to hold

02:02:04.695 --> 02:02:08.715
on to whatever they feel
is a popular identity.

02:02:08.715 --> 02:02:10.725
And quite often that
popular identity now

02:02:10.755 --> 02:02:12.765
is looking at how
unpopular I am, look

02:02:12.775 --> 02:02:13.755
at how different I am.

02:02:14.535 --> 02:02:14.955
Um.

02:02:15.015 --> 02:02:15.825
Yeah, good point.

02:02:16.545 --> 02:02:16.875
Yeah.

02:02:17.445 --> 02:02:20.865
Well, um, I think,
uh, I think we're far

02:02:20.865 --> 02:02:24.405
more complex as humans
than just what we do

02:02:24.405 --> 02:02:26.775
for work or just what
we do for our hobbies.

02:02:27.195 --> 02:02:30.705
Uh, April, I am so
excited about being able

02:02:30.705 --> 02:02:34.165
to showcase your courses
through Silvercore.

02:02:34.635 --> 02:02:37.965
I can't wait for others
to be able to take this

02:02:37.965 --> 02:02:41.085
and provide feedback and,
and be able to experience

02:02:41.085 --> 02:02:42.625
what I've been able to
experience through them.

02:02:43.055 --> 02:02:45.764
Thank you very much
for being on the

02:02:45.764 --> 02:02:46.965
podcast here again.

02:02:46.995 --> 02:02:49.665
And I look forward to
when we are able to get

02:02:49.665 --> 02:02:52.035
back together in person.

02:02:52.035 --> 02:02:52.375
Me too.

02:02:52.425 --> 02:02:53.745
Thank you for
letting me ramble.

02:02:53.745 --> 02:02:56.115
Thank you for everyone
listening, dealing with

02:02:56.115 --> 02:02:59.085
me, being pushed around
and cut off by a three

02:02:59.085 --> 02:02:59.715
and a half year old.

02:02:59.715 --> 02:03:01.035
I really appreciate
your patience with

02:03:01.035 --> 02:03:03.285
me and giving me
the chance to talk.

02:03:03.285 --> 02:03:04.635
You know, it's so nice
to be able to have,

02:03:04.635 --> 02:03:06.855
uh, to really actually
be able to have a

02:03:06.855 --> 02:03:18.165
two-way conversation.

02:03:18.195 --> 02:03:18.675
So thank you.