WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:04.707 --> 00:00:06.537 Welcome to Outer Orbit. 00:00:06.537 --> 00:00:11.847 This is the bit where we take one of our guests and maybe pick up on something 00:00:11.847 --> 00:00:16.567 interesting that came up that we didn't really have time to, examine fully in the 00:00:16.567 --> 00:00:23.059 main bit of the show, and I'm here with Martin Braddock from GENIXICONSULTING. 00:00:23.430 --> 00:00:26.520 Just for our listeners, just in case they haven't heard the main 00:00:26.520 --> 00:00:28.890 episode, just tell us what you do. 00:00:29.490 --> 00:00:32.233 Okay, so I'm founder of GENIXICONSULTING. 00:00:32.253 --> 00:00:36.683 I had a career in the biopharm industry for nearly 30 years. 00:00:36.688 --> 00:00:37.108 Crikey. 00:00:37.328 --> 00:00:40.018 And prior to that, an academic career, university of 00:00:40.018 --> 00:00:41.698 Oxford, University of Dundee. 00:00:42.098 --> 00:00:43.998 So I've been around science... 00:00:43.998 --> 00:00:44.508 around the block. 00:00:44.738 --> 00:00:45.938 quite a while. 00:00:46.428 --> 00:00:50.558 Drug discovery and drug development and commercialization of drug products. 00:00:50.603 --> 00:00:51.683 So interesting. 00:00:51.751 --> 00:00:54.271 We were talking a lot about the developments of drugs in space 00:00:54.271 --> 00:00:57.751 and the benefits of the absence of gravitational effects and designing 00:00:57.751 --> 00:00:59.521 drugs, et cetera, et cetera. 00:00:59.641 --> 00:01:02.431 One thing just at the end of our conversation, which is why I wanted 00:01:02.431 --> 00:01:06.211 to keep you, we started to go a little bit more esoteric, I think, and we 00:01:06.211 --> 00:01:10.467 started to talk about this idea of human longevity in space and This 00:01:10.467 --> 00:01:14.367 sounds very sci-fi 'cause of course one of the great sci-fi tropes was that 00:01:14.427 --> 00:01:18.027 the astronauts on their, have spent thousands of years in space and they. 00:01:18.677 --> 00:01:22.667 In Alien, famously, the kind of pods open up and they kind of awake from 00:01:22.667 --> 00:01:27.407 their hibernation state years having passed as a way of circumnavigating 00:01:27.407 --> 00:01:30.317 the short lifecycle span of humans. 00:01:30.647 --> 00:01:34.067 Is this total sci-fi, but you were hinting that maybe that's something there? 00:01:34.252 --> 00:01:35.862 I don't think it is total sci-fi. 00:01:35.862 --> 00:01:39.082 I mean, it is total sci-fi at present for human beings. 00:01:39.632 --> 00:01:42.642 Then if we think about, well, what precedents are there 00:01:42.672 --> 00:01:44.052 within the animal kingdom? 00:01:44.592 --> 00:01:47.802 And, for anybody who's ever had a tortoise as a pet, well, 00:01:47.802 --> 00:01:48.882 you, you know, they hibernate. 00:01:49.257 --> 00:01:50.397 For people of a certain age. 00:01:50.422 --> 00:01:54.792 and there are plenty of other examples of where animals hibernate 00:01:55.212 --> 00:01:57.882 they are to an extent in stasis. 00:01:57.952 --> 00:01:58.162 Yeah. 00:01:58.372 --> 00:02:02.122 They metabolize very little, of course they don't eat, they don't 00:02:02.432 --> 00:02:05.922 do the, things that the opposite end of the elementary canal either. 00:02:06.352 --> 00:02:10.812 So there, there is a precedent for, hibernation and stasis. 00:02:11.672 --> 00:02:15.272 But I think in fairness, we don't really understand it and we don't 00:02:15.272 --> 00:02:19.862 understand why we can't, in theory at least, do it in humans as of yet. 00:02:19.962 --> 00:02:22.362 When you say we don't understand, have we not, someone must have 00:02:22.362 --> 00:02:26.652 done their PhD study on why bears hibernate or why tortoise is hibernate. 00:02:26.652 --> 00:02:28.132 We must kind of understand it? 00:02:28.402 --> 00:02:31.932 We understand why it happens in the animal kingdom, but I don't think we 00:02:31.932 --> 00:02:36.782 understand why it doesn't happen in the human species and why perhaps it 00:02:36.782 --> 00:02:38.942 couldn't be induced to happen in humans. 00:02:39.462 --> 00:02:44.862 The part of what we do understand is how to put somebody in, if 00:02:44.862 --> 00:02:48.102 you like, an induced coma, of course, after traumatic injury. 00:02:48.162 --> 00:02:51.072 Which is sadly the case in some instances. 00:02:51.532 --> 00:02:54.232 But that tends to be for very short periods of time, not 00:02:54.232 --> 00:02:55.792 weeks and months or even years. 00:02:55.842 --> 00:03:00.389 As would have to be the case in a alien or passengers type voyage. 00:03:00.749 --> 00:03:04.319 But presumably it'd be a useful thing if you were a colonizer on Mars or on 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:06.119 the Moon and someone has an injury. 00:03:06.119 --> 00:03:09.292 Well, actually you need to not just to explore far away places, but 00:03:09.292 --> 00:03:12.172 I think for example, you, you're absolutely right, Dallas. 00:03:12.172 --> 00:03:17.705 So let's just say that we're on, well, maybe if we're on the moon at least we 00:03:17.705 --> 00:03:19.377 can get people back relatively quickly. 00:03:19.377 --> 00:03:23.877 But if we're on Mars, somebody's had a serious accident, it's gonna take you 00:03:24.567 --> 00:03:27.887 six months to find the right window to be able to get people back to 00:03:27.887 --> 00:03:29.657 earth, let alone the travel time too. 00:03:30.137 --> 00:03:32.207 What would we do to be able to manage that? 00:03:32.267 --> 00:03:37.087 Put them in some form of induced hibernation and and save their lives. 00:03:37.112 --> 00:03:41.042 There are companies cause I'm sure I did a program about it or a podcast or something 00:03:41.042 --> 00:03:46.322 where they, companies that will freeze you people who are, have some incurable 00:03:46.322 --> 00:03:48.187 illness and they'll stick you in a vat... 00:03:48.817 --> 00:03:49.377 yeah, yeah 00:03:49.507 --> 00:03:51.727 . of something and you'll be frozen until they find a cure 00:03:51.727 --> 00:03:52.777 and then they'll bring you back 00:03:53.632 --> 00:03:54.472 That's true. 00:03:54.522 --> 00:03:56.162 Cryogenics companies are around. 00:03:56.182 --> 00:03:58.272 I'm not sure how successful been. 00:03:58.342 --> 00:03:59.887 Well, no one's. 00:03:59.977 --> 00:04:00.757 Well, yeah, 00:04:00.772 --> 00:04:04.337 Not sure I'd like to put it to the test myself, but in theory, yeah, in theory. 00:04:04.442 --> 00:04:07.222 There's this idea, I think it's, it is torpor isn't That's 00:04:07.222 --> 00:04:08.302 the word we use, isn't it? 00:04:08.352 --> 00:04:11.882 William who was sitting there for our main episode who works here was talking 00:04:11.882 --> 00:04:16.552 about he'd been involved in some kind of, research into this as serious research. 00:04:16.649 --> 00:04:19.629 there is certainly serious research being done into torpor. 00:04:19.889 --> 00:04:23.839 There is research being done into what's called geroprotection, 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:26.269 which is effectively anti-aging. 00:04:26.369 --> 00:04:30.809 If we're serious about understanding what space does to the human body, there 00:04:30.809 --> 00:04:34.939 is, research I know that telomeres, the little bits of repeats at the end 00:04:34.939 --> 00:04:38.479 of our chromosomes shortened faster in space than they do on earth. 00:04:39.229 --> 00:04:43.479 Which tends to imply, that we age faster in space than on earth. 00:04:44.559 --> 00:04:47.319 And I know there are some very nice studies that are being conducted in 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:51.239 the UK for example, at the University of Oxford, trying to understand 00:04:51.239 --> 00:04:55.469 the effects of space on aging at a cellular level in the first instance. 00:04:55.989 --> 00:05:00.939 There are very good markers of the aging process that we can now map 00:05:00.939 --> 00:05:03.519 methylation markers of the DNA clock. 00:05:03.609 --> 00:05:04.479 We can stop aging. 00:05:04.479 --> 00:05:05.079 Do you think? 00:05:05.099 --> 00:05:07.649 We can understand perhaps how to slow it down. 00:05:07.649 --> 00:05:08.639 I'm not sure we can stop it. 00:05:08.889 --> 00:05:10.119 And what are the implications of that? 00:05:10.119 --> 00:05:11.109 Are we gonna live for... 00:05:11.769 --> 00:05:13.429 Well, the implications are that we would live... 00:05:13.449 --> 00:05:14.909 biblical length of time. 00:05:14.979 --> 00:05:17.109 Healthier lives, I think for longer. 00:05:17.569 --> 00:05:21.049 I don't think anybody would want to live a long life and not be healthy. 00:05:21.169 --> 00:05:23.179 Um, Or at least I wouldn't. 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:26.866 But I think the implications are we could live healthier lives for longer. 00:05:27.074 --> 00:05:30.014 Everything at the moment seems to be a big hockey stick tick at the end of it. 00:05:30.704 --> 00:05:32.504 Space exploration, for example. 00:05:32.684 --> 00:05:38.699 Recently, access to space has seemed to become really quite exciting 00:05:38.699 --> 00:05:40.529 again and all sorts of possibilities. 00:05:41.249 --> 00:05:45.039 Do you think we're gonna see a revolution in health because of space? 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:48.904 I think there's the opportunity there to drive that revolution. 00:05:49.174 --> 00:05:53.734 I think it's up to the biopharm industry, the biotech industry to 00:05:53.734 --> 00:05:59.169 seize that opportunity, and I think the onus is on us perhaps all to help 00:05:59.169 --> 00:06:02.109 guide those industries, those of us that have been around and know the 00:06:02.109 --> 00:06:05.919 process, to highlight the examples, and to actually say, look, guys, here, 00:06:05.919 --> 00:06:07.419 there, there's an opportunity here. 00:06:07.899 --> 00:06:12.579 We will provide you with X, Y, and Z. Can you use this in your drug 00:06:12.579 --> 00:06:14.214 discovery or drug development cascade? 00:06:14.679 --> 00:06:16.479 And if so, this is how to do it. 00:06:16.504 --> 00:06:20.704 Do you think there's one thing in particular that drug development 00:06:20.704 --> 00:06:22.058 in space could really help? 00:06:22.108 --> 00:06:27.794 The one area that I see where there is potentially immediate return is 00:06:27.794 --> 00:06:31.394 in helping at the early stage of drug discovery and what we call structural 00:06:31.394 --> 00:06:36.854 based drug design, which is the need to have a protein structure such that 00:06:36.854 --> 00:06:42.699 we can design drugs to block that proteins activity, and even with all 00:06:42.699 --> 00:06:47.909 of the advances in new technology, cryo-electron microscopy and alpha folds 00:06:47.909 --> 00:06:50.069 to the artificial intelligence program 00:06:50.104 --> 00:06:51.364 I was gonna talk about AI. 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:57.159 I think even with that, there is most definitely a role for space 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:02.019 born crystal studies to be able to help derive structures that 00:07:02.019 --> 00:07:03.699 will help our drug discovery. 00:07:04.479 --> 00:07:10.209 And if that can be routine and included or not included, but either way, a 00:07:10.209 --> 00:07:15.209 decision point is made in a conventional drug discovery platform, I think that 00:07:15.209 --> 00:07:16.813 could open up a real opportunity. 00:07:16.963 --> 00:07:20.683 Not just for the space industry, but for biopharma itself. 00:07:21.168 --> 00:07:22.888 See, I want to go into torpor. 00:07:23.718 --> 00:07:24.198 Just 00:07:24.248 --> 00:07:25.688 You look even younger than I do. 00:07:25.778 --> 00:07:28.628 I'd be no apart just because I wanna see what everything's 00:07:28.628 --> 00:07:30.038 gonna be like in 50 years time. 00:07:30.038 --> 00:07:31.648 'cause it's gonna be so radical. 00:07:31.978 --> 00:07:32.368 Okay. 00:07:32.368 --> 00:07:35.128 Because you can imagine like the difference between somebody who lived in 00:07:35.128 --> 00:07:37.738 like the 15 hundreds to the 16 hundreds. 00:07:38.293 --> 00:07:38.713 Eh. 00:07:39.153 --> 00:07:41.373 They kind of did the same kind of stuff. 00:07:41.403 --> 00:07:44.673 Things happen, but there's just radical change happening at the 00:07:44.673 --> 00:07:45.753 moment, and I think the next... 00:07:46.393 --> 00:07:47.963 Absolutely breathtaking. 00:07:48.093 --> 00:07:53.803 So even within my relatively short to lifespan so far, the changes I've 00:07:53.803 --> 00:07:56.773 seen, I mean, the changes I've seen in drug discovery and drug development 00:07:56.773 --> 00:07:58.393 over my career have been astounding. 00:07:59.143 --> 00:08:00.313 Absolutely astounding. 00:08:00.363 --> 00:08:05.113 and you would've been laughed at if you'd suggested some of the changes 20 years 00:08:05.113 --> 00:08:07.063 ago even that this have happened today. 00:08:07.543 --> 00:08:12.403 The big problem, of course, with going into, stasis, torpor, hibernation, 00:08:12.403 --> 00:08:16.213 whatever you want to call it for any long periods of time, is when you come back. 00:08:16.213 --> 00:08:21.283 When you come out of it, your email inbox is just gonna be absolutely rammed. 00:08:21.613 --> 00:08:24.133 Can you imagine how many letters you'd have on your doormat 00:08:24.133 --> 00:08:25.303 as well when you got home? 00:08:25.528 --> 00:08:25.948 Yeah. 00:08:26.268 --> 00:08:29.928 Thank you for sticking you around, talking further. 00:08:29.928 --> 00:08:32.088 It's been great to have you here, absolutely fascinating. 00:08:32.103 --> 00:08:34.623 Congratulations and continue doing wonderful things. 00:08:34.623 --> 00:08:35.883 Thank you very much indeed, Martin. 00:08:35.943 --> 00:08:36.613 Thank you Dallas. 00:08:37.247 --> 00:08:42.077 To hear future episodes of In Orbit, be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast 00:08:42.077 --> 00:08:46.697 app and head over to YouTube to watch the video versions of all of our discussions. 00:08:46.787 --> 00:08:50.447 And if you'd like to find out more about how Space is empowering your 00:08:50.447 --> 00:08:55.547 industry, visit the Catapult website or join them on social media.