1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,800 Jessie Cruickshank: Hello and welcome to the ordinary 2 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:05,880 discipleship podcast. I am Jesse Cruikshank, and I am here today, 3 00:00:06,180 --> 00:00:10,980 actually, on location in Hilo, Hawaii, with my dear friends, 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,480 Pastor Sheldon, Pastor bunny. My husband is here. Bob. Say Hi, 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,660 Bob. Hello, there you go. He's never on the podcast, but we've 6 00:00:18,660 --> 00:00:25,160 recruited him today, and I am so excited to share and introduce 7 00:00:25,700 --> 00:00:30,140 Sheldon and Bunny to you guys. They have been pastoring in 8 00:00:30,140 --> 00:00:35,540 Hilo. They're best friends their whole lives, and they have been 9 00:00:35,540 --> 00:00:40,220 doing this thing together. And what is amazing about them is 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:46,780 they have been practicing the process of turning a normal, 11 00:00:46,780 --> 00:00:51,220 regular, classical kind of, you know, church that has programs 12 00:00:51,220 --> 00:00:54,160 and cares about performance and all that stuff. And they have 13 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,940 been migrating that church, not from one that just makes 14 00:00:57,940 --> 00:01:04,200 disciples, but to one that makes disciple makers. And so want to 15 00:01:04,380 --> 00:01:07,380 have a conversation with you guys today about what that's 16 00:01:07,380 --> 00:01:10,920 like, because I can, you know, share, hey, here's how we did 17 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,820 it. You know, the environments that I come from, but some to 18 00:01:14,820 --> 00:01:17,100 some degree, you know, like the wilderness ministry that was 19 00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:20,720 starting from scratch, to some degree, right? But you guys have 20 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,620 taken an existing congregation that has been around for decades 21 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:30,440 and have been moving it. My first question, just to kind of 22 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,960 warm us into it, is, how's that been and how long has it taken 23 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:39,020 to like, like, how long has it taken you to get to where you 24 00:01:39,020 --> 00:01:40,360 are? So first of 25 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,100 Sheldon Lacsina: all, thank you for having us here. Thank you 26 00:01:42,100 --> 00:01:46,540 for letting us be a part of ordinary discipleship. And we 27 00:01:46,540 --> 00:01:51,460 listen to the podcast all the time. So I'm thankful I know for 28 00:01:51,460 --> 00:01:55,600 you too, Bunny. The exciting part is watching what's taking 29 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:00,160 place today, because bunny brought this maybe seven years 30 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,160 ago. I don't know when she met you. I don't know 31 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,500 Unknown: how long that yeah, long time before you and I met, 32 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:05,640 yes. So a while 33 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,400 before. So when she brought it to me again, it was, yeah, 34 00:02:08,460 --> 00:02:11,160 that's great. Sounds good, yeah. But this is what we're doing 35 00:02:11,159 --> 00:02:13,379 at our church. We have discipleship programs, yeah, 36 00:02:13,379 --> 00:02:13,499 yeah. 37 00:02:13,740 --> 00:02:16,260 We have discipleship classes already. So what are you what 38 00:02:16,260 --> 00:02:19,080 are we doing? So it took a couple years for me to even 39 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,880 catch the heart and vision of what she was talking about, 40 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,960 because it didn't, it didn't make sense. But when I saw her 41 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,800 life change, then I started to think, Wait, what is Why is she 42 00:02:30,860 --> 00:02:33,620 different? Because we'd argue a lot, right? We're really good 43 00:02:33,620 --> 00:02:37,700 friends, so maybe not argue. It's more like she's wrong and 44 00:02:37,700 --> 00:02:40,660 I'm right and I'm like, How can you not see from my perspective? 45 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,040 Well, you thought you were right sometimes anyway. So that pause 46 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,280 says it all. So there are times when we remember there wasn't a 47 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,420 pause, yeah, it wasn't a pause. It was, uh, whatever you want to 48 00:02:52,420 --> 00:02:53,260 believe, right? Wait 49 00:02:53,260 --> 00:02:55,000 Jessie Cruickshank: so children, when you said that you didn't 50 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,440 understand, maybe like, Help us. Help us in. Know your frame of 51 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,980 mind at that time, either what you what you thought, or what 52 00:03:01,980 --> 00:03:05,460 you heard, or, you know, because I'm sure there are people out 53 00:03:05,460 --> 00:03:08,940 there who hear about, oh yeah, discipleship, yeah, even 54 00:03:08,940 --> 00:03:11,520 ordinary discipleship. Sure, we should all make disciples. We're 55 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,000 already doing that whatever, so they might be able to under 56 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,560 identify with with worry. 57 00:03:16,620 --> 00:03:19,620 Unknown: It was, it wasn't measurable. There wasn't a 12 58 00:03:19,620 --> 00:03:23,300 week course. There were no metrics for it. There was no 59 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:26,960 certificate. There was this is what I knew, like, how we knew, 60 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,040 yeah, so what do you mean? No, that's and it was too simple. 61 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,620 It's just too simple. How can that? How can that make me feel 62 00:03:36,620 --> 00:03:40,360 like I have authority? Because that's all we knew. You go 63 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,580 through this class, you get a certificate, and now you have 64 00:03:42,580 --> 00:03:46,360 the authority to go do something in someone else's life, and now 65 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,560 you can mentor them that qualified you, because nobody 66 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,940 wants to be discipled using air quotes with someone who, like, 67 00:03:54,940 --> 00:03:57,520 what are your credentials now? Who hasn't been certified? 68 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,380 Right? You're not certified to coach me. So that's what I 69 00:04:01,380 --> 00:04:03,960 couldn't understand. I'm like, okay, so how does this make 70 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,440 sense in discipleship? And she used the term, I think it was 71 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,980 life on life, or something like that. She also used terms like, 72 00:04:10,980 --> 00:04:13,980 you come alongside of people. You go on like you have your 73 00:04:13,980 --> 00:04:15,660 journey. They have their journey. I'm like, Yeah, but 74 00:04:15,660 --> 00:04:17,040 Jessie Cruickshank: I wish that. I wish the audience could see 75 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,620 your confused face. Oh my, yeah. We should 76 00:04:19,620 --> 00:04:24,260 Unknown: have filmed film this too. So even in the context of 77 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:29,720 my neural pathway was this, this is what I knew my entire life. 78 00:04:30,260 --> 00:04:37,820 She's bringing something that is so different and simple that I 79 00:04:37,820 --> 00:04:42,280 just couldn't get it, not until we were talking about something, 80 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:47,080 and again, getting into a debate or back and forth kind of thing 81 00:04:47,380 --> 00:04:51,640 that normally would go that way. As we're getting into it, she's 82 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,700 fine. She's like, Okay, that sounds great, if that's what you 83 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:57,700 feel the Lord saying we can do that at first, I thought she was 84 00:04:57,700 --> 00:04:58,540 being sarcastic, 85 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:00,180 because bunny. Was 86 00:05:00,180 --> 00:05:06,060 never sarcastic, never, never as Yeah. So, so when, when she said 87 00:05:06,060 --> 00:05:09,360 it like that, I thought, okay, she being real? Or is that or 88 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,800 she's being sarcastic? So I said, so what does that mean? 89 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,900 She goes, No, that's fine. We can do that, and we'll get the 90 00:05:15,900 --> 00:05:19,200 teams ready, whatever it was. And then the next time it 91 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,280 happened, I thought, that's different again. And then there 92 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:24,680 are certain other things that she wasn't doing. I was 93 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:29,840 thinking, Is she changing? Like, why is she Why is she different? 94 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,100 So I had that in the back of my mind. And then, and we, we do 95 00:05:34,100 --> 00:05:37,580 life together, outside of ministry, with our family, our 96 00:05:37,580 --> 00:05:41,800 children. So when I seen her different with her family and 97 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,520 with other people. I'm like. She's not acting she's not being 98 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,600 sarcastic. This is an actual life transformation. What 99 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,900 happened like, what am I missing? What am I not seeing? 100 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,720 Jessie Cruickshank: So so beforehand, discipleship to you, 101 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,600 was a program that gave a certificate that conveyed 102 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,720 authority. It acted like had nothing to do with heart change. 103 00:06:04,380 --> 00:06:08,580 Unknown: Heart change was the afterthought, like, like 104 00:06:08,820 --> 00:06:14,520 everything was heart but what was what we were doing? Didn't I 105 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,440 could say it didn't feel like it was doing a heart change. It 106 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,840 felt like memorized scripture. It was very performance driven, 107 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:25,280 very performance. High performance 108 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:29,000 driven. Yeah. Are you studying your Bible, and are you? Are you 109 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:30,020 in the Word of God? 110 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,340 Yeah. And if you do all of So, your equation was, if you do all 111 00:06:34,340 --> 00:06:36,200 of those things, then you're then I'm worthy, 112 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,240 then you're worthy, you're qualified, then you're called, 113 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,500 and then you can, now you can serve. So you couldn't serve 114 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:44,620 until you were discipled, or went through the discipleship 115 00:06:44,620 --> 00:06:45,160 classes. 116 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,040 Bunny Correa: And if you were difficult, like, in my case, you 117 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,040 know, if you were difficult, you'd go to the discipleship 118 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,640 class. And I went, I don't know, like seven times I like seven 119 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:59,260 certificates, like, Man, I still can. I still can't do anything. 120 00:06:59,620 --> 00:07:02,940 No, oh, okay, so it doesn't work. Then your your system, 121 00:07:03,420 --> 00:07:07,140 yeah, oh, unless I'm, unless I'm a dude, then it would, then it's 122 00:07:07,140 --> 00:07:10,620 different. But I mean, back then, oh well, so it was, it was 123 00:07:10,620 --> 00:07:15,360 different because I remember having to go to the classes, and 124 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,680 then even part of before we got married, it was like, Well, you 125 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,400 do know you guys need to go through this discipleship 126 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,420 program so that you can disciple your children. And so that was 127 00:07:26,420 --> 00:07:30,080 like, oh, okay, because that's what I thought, that's what was 128 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,160 told. So that's what I thought we needed to do. And we did that 129 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:40,160 for years, years. And one of the conversations that Sheldon and I 130 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,400 had when we were doing youth ministry together, and we were 131 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:48,400 in our 20s, and we would talk about the church and always be 132 00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:52,900 like we were thinking about, Oh, imagine if, and the way we did 133 00:07:52,900 --> 00:07:57,820 discipleship in youth ministry wasn't through a class. In fact, 134 00:07:57,820 --> 00:08:00,180 we called it salt serving and learning together. We did it 135 00:08:00,180 --> 00:08:03,900 together, that's right. And we just would come alongside of 136 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:08,520 these kids and and they were like, Oh, it's so different. But 137 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,560 then by the time they got to young adults, it's like, oh, I 138 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,320 guess you guys got to go to discipleship, right? Yes, but 139 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:14,220 then we had a, but 140 00:08:14,220 --> 00:08:16,320 Jessie Cruickshank: not the detention version, right? The 141 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,440 like, you're gonna actually get authority, not merits, 142 00:08:21,740 --> 00:08:22,520 discipleship. 143 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:28,100 Unknown: But I think early on, we we knew that we just the only 144 00:08:28,100 --> 00:08:32,600 thing I knew how to do, like any type of leadership was through 145 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:37,040 relationship, because that's the only way that I knew how like 146 00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:40,360 was taught to me, or I could understand, or I received. I 147 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,300 didn't really receive very well when someone told me what I 148 00:08:43,300 --> 00:08:46,120 could and couldn't do, like, that doesn't land. That didn't 149 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,100 land very well with me or my my personality and so, and I've 150 00:08:51,100 --> 00:08:54,520 been part of this church since I was seven, so it's like, okay 151 00:08:54,700 --> 00:09:00,820 and but I was, like, trying to prove to my parents and to the 152 00:09:00,820 --> 00:09:05,640 leaders and to God that I was worth something because of all 153 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,460 the things that I did in my past. So I thought, Okay, wait. 154 00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:12,180 I have to prove myself and decide if I just do this and I 155 00:09:12,180 --> 00:09:16,740 look like this, then maybe they'll believe in me. You know, 156 00:09:16,740 --> 00:09:21,260 maybe this is what will happen. But what we decided to do is we 157 00:09:21,260 --> 00:09:24,140 had the conversation was like, hey, one day we're going to be 158 00:09:24,140 --> 00:09:27,080 the old ones in the church. We're going to be the ones that 159 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,160 are going to be we can change, like we might have an 160 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,180 opportunity to actually change how we do things, not knowing 161 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,380 that God was going to put us in these, oh, in these shoes. Yeah, 162 00:09:39,380 --> 00:09:42,220 we I didn't know I was going to be the senior pastor. No idea. 163 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,980 No in fact, when, when I became the senior pastor, one of the 164 00:09:47,980 --> 00:09:54,160 first things we did was redo our discipleship classes. We redid 165 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:59,140 them, renamed it, but still was missing something. Right? It's 166 00:09:59,140 --> 00:10:03,360 like, it's just not. Landing. And from it started with like 20 167 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,180 something people in one of the classes, and then it ended up 168 00:10:06,180 --> 00:10:11,700 with like seven. So there's a high drop off rate. So we 169 00:10:11,700 --> 00:10:15,480 thought, what if we just do what we did while we were in youth 170 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,120 ministry, and just do life with people. 171 00:10:18,180 --> 00:10:22,520 But the church is so massive. Yes, that was the youth ministry 172 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,420 we could do, because we had 100 kids, right? That was doable. 173 00:10:26,780 --> 00:10:29,780 Because maybe we had 1015, leaders, and we all could, you 174 00:10:29,780 --> 00:10:33,380 know, rally around these kids. Have right life together. But 175 00:10:33,380 --> 00:10:37,880 then you take on a church that has 1500 plus. How do we do that 176 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,860 when now our the staff is smaller, and God was like, you 177 00:10:41,860 --> 00:10:44,800 can't, yeah, right, no, the math doesn't work. It does, and we 178 00:10:44,860 --> 00:10:50,860 didn't know. And when we had our, you know, I'm my aha 179 00:10:50,860 --> 00:10:55,420 moment. I'm like, I'm texting Sheldon, going, bro, we are 180 00:10:55,420 --> 00:10:59,860 doing something wrong. And, and I just couldn't get no, no, it's 181 00:10:59,860 --> 00:11:03,240 fine, because the program, because we have so many people, 182 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,660 it has to be this way. Yeah, we cannot do it relationally. It 183 00:11:06,660 --> 00:11:10,260 has to be this way. I'm like, there has to be it. Okay. So, 184 00:11:10,260 --> 00:11:14,280 okay. And you know, when the Lord spoke to me about, don't 185 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,100 worry about the ship, because the ship, you know, yeah, he's 186 00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:19,740 like, don't worry about the ship. It's gonna turn but you're 187 00:11:19,740 --> 00:11:21,620 gonna have to, you're gonna have to hold the 188 00:11:21,620 --> 00:11:24,260 ropes for a little while. She had to go through some brutal 189 00:11:24,260 --> 00:11:30,020 moments to stay and to stay the course, because to try and 190 00:11:30,020 --> 00:11:33,200 convince me that was the most difficult thing. Yeah, she's 191 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:34,520 Jessie Cruickshank: not the only stubborn one in this 192 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:35,480 relationship. Yes, 193 00:11:38,180 --> 00:11:40,760 Unknown: right and stubborn in the right direction is a good 194 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,440 thing. I was stubborn in the wrong direction, right? And so 195 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:45,160 being we all 196 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:46,300 are until it gets fixed, 197 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,220 yes. And I think along the way, I think what has been the most 198 00:11:51,220 --> 00:11:55,600 difficult thing is those who are stuck in the system, 199 00:11:57,220 --> 00:11:59,020 Jessie Cruickshank: they just like being in the matrix, and 200 00:11:59,020 --> 00:11:59,920 they don't know it, right? 201 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:03,780 Unknown: They don't know Yeah, and they're and so they don't 202 00:12:03,780 --> 00:12:08,640 know Yeah. They don't know that there's a there's a vision 203 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,900 behind what we're doing. It's not just dismantling things. And 204 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:16,200 we can cast a vision over and over and over, but when that 205 00:12:16,260 --> 00:12:23,360 neural pathway is just firing it, it there on the not just 206 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:29,840 unwilling to learn, but almost unable to, unless, right, you 207 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:30,920 make that choice. 208 00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:34,640 Yeah, we couldn't say it was an age thing, because my mom's in 209 00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:37,160 seven. Oh, I don't believe it. Yeah, it was like it was an 210 00:12:37,340 --> 00:12:40,900 intentional thing. And then we decided, You know what? Okay, 211 00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:44,620 we're not gonna, it's okay. It's okay, if that's what, you know, 212 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:48,580 that's how you do it. But this is how we're gonna, we're gonna 213 00:12:48,580 --> 00:12:51,820 start here. And and we just started to like, let's implement 214 00:12:51,820 --> 00:12:55,840 it first in our own lives, see if we can do this in those that 215 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:01,560 are around us, you know? And then we started to see, wow, 216 00:13:02,460 --> 00:13:08,760 okay, wait, if we only did it like Jesus, maybe that's the 217 00:13:08,820 --> 00:13:15,540 solution to, like, do, wow. And but having God's grace, like his 218 00:13:15,540 --> 00:13:20,220 grace was so like, I look back, I'm like, man, you're so good 219 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,020 because we didn't know it all. We didn't know what to do, but 220 00:13:24,020 --> 00:13:28,640 yet his grace was still present, and people didn't leave. They 221 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,700 were being discipled. Holy Spirit does his thing. We just 222 00:13:31,700 --> 00:13:36,980 had to learn the correct system and go with that. And the 223 00:13:36,980 --> 00:13:40,900 correct system was to do it like Jesus did. And we even changed 224 00:13:40,900 --> 00:13:44,980 the model, like, of our our church, like, these are big 225 00:13:44,980 --> 00:13:47,920 decisions that people like our elders, and people are like, 226 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,180 What are you doing? And this is where I'm really thankful that 227 00:13:52,180 --> 00:13:55,540 Sheldon is a captain, because he's like, okay, like, but he's 228 00:13:55,540 --> 00:14:00,360 caring, but yet he still knows this is what the Lord said. So 229 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,000 therefore we're gonna do it this way. But the way he did it was 230 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,680 very like, gracious. But on that side, that side of like, Hey, 231 00:14:07,740 --> 00:14:10,740 we're gonna do it reach those far from God, one relationship 232 00:14:10,740 --> 00:14:15,840 at a time that became our model. Yeah, before we even the buy in, 233 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,080 happened like that. Oh yeah, for the buy in. So he already, the 234 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,740 Lord was already speaking to him, like, we gotta do it 235 00:14:21,740 --> 00:14:25,220 through relationship. We just didn't know how. Yeah, so 236 00:14:25,220 --> 00:14:27,920 Jessie Cruickshank: bunny, for you, learning about some of the 237 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,740 stuff around ordinary discipleship, and, you know, 238 00:14:30,740 --> 00:14:37,100 trying to entreat Sheldon into these ideas and him, you know, 239 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:41,000 not getting it like, what, well. And then you had to hold space 240 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:47,500 with that right for for a couple years. What about the idea of 241 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,980 everybody being a disciple maker, doing it Jesus's way? 242 00:14:50,980 --> 00:14:57,040 Like, like, what about that gave you enough hope to endure, to be 243 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,560 patient or long suffering to not. Fight the fights, but trust 244 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:06,120 God like, like, what was the joy set before you that helped you 245 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,040 wait it out? Well, 246 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,960 Unknown: one of the things that one, I have a deep relationship 247 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,460 with Jesus, and I've always, like, had conversations with 248 00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:22,400 him, and when he told me, You're not going to go anywhere. You're 249 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,840 going to you're going to hang with Sheldon. I also have a deep 250 00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:30,140 relationship with Sheldon, so it became like, Okay, wait a 251 00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:34,160 minute. I can do this, and it's going to be a little difficult, 252 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:39,200 but you're going to help me. But the joy comes from the fact that 253 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,980 I would have a group of young adults like I would do, like, 254 00:15:41,980 --> 00:15:45,340 this is what you're gonna do. I said, Okay, I can do this, and 255 00:15:45,340 --> 00:15:50,860 we would just cook. And I started to learn from this young 256 00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:56,200 man. He was maybe 18 at the time, and I remember when, wait 257 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,140 a minute, am I learning something from this dude? Like 258 00:15:59,140 --> 00:16:04,560 he doesn't even read his Bible at all. He comes to church, but 259 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,580 he's like, you know, but he's doing life with me. And I 260 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,400 remember just having like, a conversation with him, and I was 261 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,560 like, where did you get that from? He goes, Well, I talked to 262 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,920 God, and he just told me to tell you. I was like, wait what? 263 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,680 Like, you didn't go to seminary, you didn't go. You're not you're 264 00:16:19,740 --> 00:16:24,980 you know. But I was like, oh, okay, wait a minute. Jesus is 265 00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:29,600 talking to me through this 18 year old. And right there, I was 266 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,260 like, okay, then it's possible. Hmm, like, God's like, I'm gonna 267 00:16:33,260 --> 00:16:38,360 show you that's gonna give you enough hope so then you can hang 268 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,520 and have this space and anytime, like, and I remember you saying, 269 00:16:42,580 --> 00:16:45,700 then, just be his friend, right? Like, just be his friend, 270 00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:46,360 because you're 271 00:16:46,420 --> 00:16:49,600 Jessie Cruickshank: you could be his mom, but the Lord is talking 272 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,040 to you through him and showing you what a person who just 273 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,040 listens to the Holy Spirit is capable of, 274 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,040 Unknown: yeah. And I remember having the conversation like, 275 00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:04,980 but what if? What if so and so did could disciple us? No, 276 00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:07,320 that's not possible. They haven't been. They don't have 277 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,800 enough experience. Okay? They don't have a certificate, yes, 278 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,300 but that was the the block. And once we started to and he's 279 00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:21,080 super like once the nerdy side of Sheldon kicked in, and he's 280 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,200 competitive, so part of it was like, Well, maybe you just 281 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,200 can't, I would use words like that. Oh, 282 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,140 so I see the folding of my arms right now. Yes. 283 00:17:30,980 --> 00:17:34,100 Remember just like, Well, maybe you can't learn from someone 284 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:37,580 else then. And he was like, No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm 285 00:17:37,580 --> 00:17:41,860 like, Oh, what are you saying then? Holy moly. But, and that 286 00:17:41,860 --> 00:17:47,080 young man was Travis, and he's 28 today, and it's been and we 287 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,460 still do life together. He's a lifer, and now it's like we 288 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:52,480 learn from him, 289 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,360 Oh, my goodness, constantly, constantly, 290 00:17:56,020 --> 00:17:59,440 all of our younger ones, yes, so we all have to do this together. 291 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,580 Yeah, that's how we're going to have a greater reach. And when 292 00:18:02,580 --> 00:18:06,180 that aha moment came, we're like, okay, Jesus. Because how 293 00:18:06,180 --> 00:18:10,920 did Jesus do it with 12? He can, obviously he can do it with 12. 294 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,320 Obviously it works. How do we do this? 295 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,260 Jessie Cruickshank: And how long have you been taking the church 296 00:18:16,260 --> 00:18:17,640 on this journey? On 297 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,800 Unknown: purpose, maybe two to three years. Okay? On purpose. 298 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,160 Before that, it was unintentionally, yeah, God knew 299 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,640 what He was doing. I didn't know Right? Because everything I did 300 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,060 all my life was relational. I was operating, even when we had 301 00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:34,340 discipleship classes, relationally. All I knew was 302 00:18:34,340 --> 00:18:36,320 relationship, right? That was easy. 303 00:18:36,740 --> 00:18:38,300 Relational culture, yeah, 304 00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:42,640 and why? Why work hard at something that I'm not good at, 305 00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:47,200 classroom setting when I do this very well. So even with our 306 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,020 youth, I didn't know I was discipling them. I just hung out 307 00:18:50,020 --> 00:18:52,060 with them. They came to my house. They all slept over. We 308 00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:54,520 had, you know, sometimes eight kids over the house just to hang 309 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,520 out and but that was the culture. 310 00:18:57,940 --> 00:19:00,480 I didn't so that was the difference, right? Like, 311 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:06,060 discipleship was a thing to be taught, and relationship was was 312 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:10,020 just being with people. They weren't the same thing. I didn't 313 00:19:10,020 --> 00:19:10,620 know, and 314 00:19:10,620 --> 00:19:14,040 a lot of times I we would for me, I would think, well, I don't 315 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,400 have any I'm your teacher. I'm your mentor. You'll learn from 316 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,860 me. And I never really was like, Well, I'm learning from you, 317 00:19:19,860 --> 00:19:23,840 until I did learn something from them, because I always was. They 318 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,060 were like, Auntie bunny, you know? What about this, this and 319 00:19:26,060 --> 00:19:28,340 this, and we would hang and all the kids would come over. We'd 320 00:19:28,340 --> 00:19:31,580 do all these life we would just do life together. But it wasn't 321 00:19:31,580 --> 00:19:35,840 until I realized I could learn from them as well. I needed to 322 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,240 get to a place of it's not about me. I needed to go through a lot 323 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:45,520 of deep like sifting. And the Lord would give us words. We was 324 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,480 every year, it would be like a word. And there was maybe 2021, 325 00:19:50,260 --> 00:19:54,400 the word was sift. And I was like, oh no, oh no, no, no, no, 326 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,920 no, no, no, no, no. And, and then yeah, and he would be his. 327 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,440 Hype to the staff was like, You think last year was hard? This 328 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,440 year is going to be even harder. Are you guys excited? You're 329 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:16,140 excited? Like, get ready, yeah, yeah, so and so that I was like, 330 00:20:16,140 --> 00:20:19,380 COVID was going to come. But then the Lord gave a word, I 331 00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:23,960 think was our 2022 and it was intentional, specific and 332 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,940 purposeful. And we're like, Well, what does that mean? We 333 00:20:25,940 --> 00:20:30,620 don't know. For Sheldon to say, I don't know, but all I know is 334 00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:34,880 something's going to be different. And we started to 335 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,720 just even do it with our staff. Like, let's just be intentional 336 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,680 with our staff. It was us first. Yeah, the staff 337 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,700 also so that they knew what we were doing and why we're doing 338 00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:51,700 what we're doing. Because the unknown is a problem for me. I 339 00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:55,000 want to know, right? But what the Lord also showed was, 340 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:58,240 because we're opposite, for bunny and I, opposite sides of 341 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,040 the spectrum. And what I mean by that is, let's just say, for 342 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:06,600 instance, when we talk about how we speak with people, she'll 343 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,360 have one perspective. I'll have a totally different perspective. 344 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,620 She'll say, go to the youth ministry. We have some young 345 00:21:13,620 --> 00:21:17,700 adults there, and there's a problem. I'm like, Oh, they can 346 00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:21,740 handle it, yeah, but it might be dangerous, because a person is 347 00:21:21,740 --> 00:21:25,100 on campus right now. I'm like, Yeah, but these are men. They're 348 00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:27,740 grown men. They can take care of themselves, yeah? But they're 349 00:21:27,740 --> 00:21:31,580 they're young kids. I'm like, they're in their 20s. They're 350 00:21:31,580 --> 00:21:35,480 not young children. They're like, my babies, they're not 351 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,740 your babies, because she's seen them grow up. So so I get the 352 00:21:39,740 --> 00:21:43,420 motherly side. My side is too bad. Yeah, but what if they get 353 00:21:43,420 --> 00:21:46,960 hurt? Then they get hurt. Not every hospital, not everybody 354 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:47,440 makes it. 355 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:54,040 Not everyone makes that's how we lie, the polar opposites, which 356 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,760 is necessary for the both of us, that we find that middle ground. 357 00:21:57,820 --> 00:22:00,420 Listen to Holy Spirit. So there's sometimes where I need 358 00:22:00,420 --> 00:22:03,720 to yield. Sometimes she needs to yield so that the polar 359 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:10,020 opposites work. I am discipling without knowing it relationally. 360 00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:15,360 So by the time it comes to her saying, I can learn from these 361 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:20,480 guys, I'm already learning from them, but I was learning the 362 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,600 things I wanted to learn. When her aha moment was, I can learn 363 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,000 from them. I'm thinking, I've always been learning from them, 364 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:29,780 but my aha moment was, yeah, but I'm picking and choosing what I 365 00:22:29,780 --> 00:22:36,200 want to learn now it's I need to learn that if that doesn't feel 366 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,660 good, I would just learn the things that feel good to me, 367 00:22:38,660 --> 00:22:38,840 right, 368 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,620 Jessie Cruickshank: that you were interested in, or healthy 369 00:22:41,620 --> 00:22:42,640 everybody, it 370 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,340 Unknown: was hard to get to a place where we were vulnerable 371 00:22:45,340 --> 00:22:48,760 because we thought that was weakness, right? And how do you 372 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:53,260 lead when you're weak? And so that my that mentality, when we 373 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,240 made that mind shift, like, wait a minute, it's not about maybe 374 00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:01,680 he, he's making us strong in our weakness. So it's better if 375 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:01,860 we're 376 00:23:01,860 --> 00:23:04,200 Jessie Cruickshank: weak. It's the ninja move that people don't 377 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:10,620 know. Yes, right? Oh, wait, God is there's more of God when, 378 00:23:10,860 --> 00:23:15,720 like, I'm okay to be weak, like God's power shows up and I don't 379 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:16,740 have to do it. So 380 00:23:16,740 --> 00:23:20,960 Unknown: that transformation, and watching what God was doing 381 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,760 in her and Bunny, I could pick up on very easily because of our 382 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,120 relational value and how close we are as brothers and sisters, 383 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,120 we could, I could pick up on, wait, that's real. That's not 384 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,320 she's not performing. She's not it's not a facade. So what is 385 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,160 that? That's what got me to a place of candy to learn this 386 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,800 then. And I love neuroscience. I love the brain. I try my best to 387 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,860 study it as much as possible how the brain functions. I'm 388 00:23:47,860 --> 00:23:53,140 intrigued and curious about it. So once I heard about you, and 389 00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:59,080 it may have been at one of our conferences that you taught, and 390 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,940 you taught about someone who was drowning, and that how to save 391 00:24:02,940 --> 00:24:06,240 them through and you're talking about discipleship, that your 392 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,440 life, you're like a life preserver for them, that you're 393 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,320 going to come alongside of them on their journey, and you're 394 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,260 going to stay afloat together, and you're going to risk your 395 00:24:16,260 --> 00:24:20,040 life for them. Yeah, you know, just says, jump off the cliff. 396 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,260 Yeah. Now jump off the cliff, but you 397 00:24:21,620 --> 00:24:23,900 graduate to jumping off the cliff, you just have the 398 00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:24,440 parachute. 399 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:31,160 Yeah. So once, once I heard neuroscience. Once I heard neuro 400 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,740 over the cliff with them. You've got the parachute. 401 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,920 So I was locked in once it was neuroscience. So 402 00:24:36,980 --> 00:24:38,300 Jessie Cruickshank: funny. You've been on this journey for 403 00:24:38,300 --> 00:24:43,240 about eight years. Sheldon eventually joins the club, joins 404 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,060 the club, gets on the right page. And I 405 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:48,760 Unknown: mean, finally we can learn new things. Oh my gosh, 406 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:52,720 I'm teaming up with someone. Finally we can move on down. 407 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,380 Jessie Cruickshank: And so you guys kind of work that, and the 408 00:24:56,380 --> 00:25:00,480 Lord is teaching you stuff it, I would say probably. A fairly 409 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,620 private way, because of the the vulnerability was, was in its 410 00:25:04,620 --> 00:25:08,220 Baby, baby step phase, right? So then, and I remember when we 411 00:25:08,220 --> 00:25:11,640 talked in 22 and you were talking about, we're going to be 412 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,900 intentional. And for you, what I what I took away from that 413 00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:18,900 season was that you were starting to narrate a little 414 00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:22,640 more about how you thought you were. You were starting to bring 415 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,800 the staff into the your mindset, right? So you're explaining, 416 00:25:28,100 --> 00:25:31,520 you're being intentional. You're explaining what you know and 417 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,100 what you don't know. Here's my intent, but I don't know what 418 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,620 the plan is, things like that, right? So, so now you're 419 00:25:36,620 --> 00:25:40,240 inviting them into the space that you're at, and that's 420 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,000 completely different from for them, right? Then that's a 421 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,840 radical experience for them, because they are used to program 422 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:51,820 performance, execution, delegated to right like here, 423 00:25:51,820 --> 00:25:54,700 tell me what to do. My job is to show up and do the thing, which 424 00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:57,880 is an amazing thing in a volunteer, until you start to 425 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,700 change the culture, and it's very disorienting. Then when 426 00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:04,320 that's the way it's been for decades, 427 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,760 Unknown: we started with community agreement. That's what 428 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,140 we ended up. I said, before we make any drastic changes, let's 429 00:26:13,260 --> 00:26:17,580 bring definition. And we are not we just were like, Okay, let's 430 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,320 just try to do this with our small teams, which was like a 431 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:27,500 train wreck, because it was like, Okay, everybody, bring 432 00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:30,080 what you want part of this agreement. What do you want our 433 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,780 team to you know, how are we going to thrive? What words are 434 00:26:32,780 --> 00:26:34,880 you going to bring? Like, we were like, we thought it was 435 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,520 going to be so easy. Because for us, we're like, yeah, 436 00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:38,720 Jessie Cruickshank: yeah, because you're, you're four 437 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,080 years in the journey, shelves, two years it was a journey. 438 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,320 They're beginning the journey, and they're like, what, like, 439 00:26:44,380 --> 00:26:47,440 Unknown: where are we going? What wilderness? Well, it's a 440 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,220 journey. It's, it's about the great adventure, no, but where 441 00:26:51,220 --> 00:26:54,940 are we gonna go? We do Sunday service, yeah, yeah. So it was a 442 00:26:54,940 --> 00:26:58,600 lot of back and forth, you know, people not getting it, and we're 443 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:03,120 like, he was a little bit more like, no, it's fine. Just that, 444 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:05,040 that word's fine. I'm like, No, but they need to have 445 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,700 definition. So it was like, it was crazy. Let's just say, but 446 00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:12,720 what is crazy? But what we realized a good way, was we 447 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:19,020 thought everyone understood what we were saying until we did that 448 00:27:19,020 --> 00:27:24,620 exercise, and then what God highlighted was we have a whole 449 00:27:24,620 --> 00:27:30,440 younger generation that their definition of anything, maybe 450 00:27:31,340 --> 00:27:35,240 family, you know, or transparency, like everybody 451 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,300 wants to be, oh, we want trust and transparency. And we're 452 00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:41,320 like, Okay, well, what does that mean to you? Oh, that you would 453 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,020 just be honest with also that on, like, literally, no one 454 00:27:44,020 --> 00:27:49,180 could define, no one could land. And when we finally did, it was 455 00:27:49,180 --> 00:27:53,680 like, Can I even do that? So bringing it back, we had to 456 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,120 scale back and go, Okay, wait Lord, help us be able to do 457 00:27:58,180 --> 00:28:01,560 this? And how are we gonna? And we just it has to just be in us 458 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,240 at this point, instead of making it again a mission statement or 459 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,800 this or that, like 460 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,180 anything else is still ongoing, right? But the common phrase 461 00:28:12,180 --> 00:28:16,020 that I get, and I understand it, it happened this morning, is 462 00:28:16,020 --> 00:28:18,000 guys don't worry about that, that we don't need to worry 463 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,420 about that, and they're like, You taught us this. Yeah, maybe 464 00:28:20,780 --> 00:28:23,060 don't worry about that. You taught us about excellence. You 465 00:28:23,060 --> 00:28:25,160 taught us about things need to be done a certain way. You 466 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,760 taught us about timing. So what are we supposed to do? You 467 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,820 trained us for this like we well, then ungrained yourself. 468 00:28:33,020 --> 00:28:35,360 Then did I say that? Wait? Did I wait? Did I say that? Oh, I'm 469 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:35,660 telling 470 00:28:35,660 --> 00:28:36,560 you something different. 471 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,300 Yes. And that's hard, because it's been ingrained in them for 472 00:28:40,300 --> 00:28:42,700 some of them, 10 solid years, and 473 00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:46,360 they're watching. And the thing is, it was watching Sheldon, 474 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:51,700 like, match his words, right? Once his actions started to 475 00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:54,700 match his words, there were some people were like, it's just 476 00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:58,120 easier to operate in law. Just do, tell me what to do, and I'll 477 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,980 do it. But now it's like, Wait, we're gonna, we're gonna operate 478 00:29:01,980 --> 00:29:03,960 in love. What does that look like? Well, there's still law 479 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,160 and love. Okay, wait, what does that mean? Okay, we're gonna 480 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,240 have to just show you. So whenever he would be you still 481 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,480 are in our staff means transparent or vulnerable. And 482 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,920 he's like, Hey, sorry. You know that's an old neural pathway. 483 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,020 I'm really trying to relearn this, because I do want it to be 484 00:29:24,020 --> 00:29:27,320 excellent, but I also want you, what is your excellent? And 485 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,560 let's What is it about the people, not the program, right? 486 00:29:30,860 --> 00:29:35,000 And so once we started to to live that way, they were able to 487 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,900 trust, right? And there's still a little residue of like, the 488 00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:42,040 fear, because that of the PTSD, what we would say, like, 489 00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:45,880 because, because of my reaction, but then how you respond to it. 490 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,260 Now we quit. We are quick to like, hey, hey, let's, let's 491 00:29:50,620 --> 00:29:54,160 talk this out. Let's have this space. And a lot of times I'm 492 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,980 just, I'm like, I'm in that space, and I'll ask certain 493 00:29:56,980 --> 00:30:00,480 questions. How did that make you feel? Okay? So I. Can we 494 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,340 acknowledge that that feeling is accurate, but is it true? And 495 00:30:05,340 --> 00:30:08,280 they be like, it's not true. Okay, so it's not true, but the 496 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,820 feeling was accurate. And then there's confession, and then 497 00:30:11,820 --> 00:30:15,540 there's what we call like pono, and we bring it back, and okay, 498 00:30:15,540 --> 00:30:20,240 then we can move from there. The more times we do that, there's 499 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,980 more trust now, right? And now they they can start to relearn 500 00:30:24,980 --> 00:30:30,500 and unlearn and experience new things and experience new 501 00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:34,820 revelations and and, yeah, we're still in it, but I don't think 502 00:30:34,820 --> 00:30:37,340 we'll ever be out of it. I think this is just an ongoing thing, 503 00:30:37,340 --> 00:30:41,380 and it's our life, because we're humans and where people and 504 00:30:41,380 --> 00:30:42,220 things are, but you're 505 00:30:42,220 --> 00:30:44,080 Jessie Cruickshank: starting to turn a corner, right? 506 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,140 Definitely. Now, now the staff have been on the journey for a 507 00:30:47,140 --> 00:30:50,920 couple years, okay, maybe one and a half. Yeah, maybe Okay, 508 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,180 one and a half, 18 months intentionally, right? So, so 509 00:30:55,180 --> 00:31:01,500 you've been being a disciple and and then you've been sort of on 510 00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:04,980 the DL, discipling them, but, but helping them experience in 511 00:31:04,980 --> 00:31:08,040 it. Because it was so disorienting to when you were 512 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,120 naming everything, so So experiencing more, kind of 513 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:18,300 starting to name. And now you've got a couple cohorts into, you 514 00:31:18,300 --> 00:31:21,740 know, people going through the the the book, going through the 515 00:31:21,740 --> 00:31:24,080 material and learn just, you know, just learning the new 516 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,560 thing. While you're you're also kind of ninja, recreating the 517 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,520 culture. And you know, you're asking them to start making 518 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,960 disciples. So it, it's, it's going through its next, its next 519 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:42,220 season. What, what are you seeing? We're six and eight 520 00:31:42,220 --> 00:31:44,980 years into this adventure. What are you starting to see? I 521 00:31:44,980 --> 00:31:45,520 already 522 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,060 Unknown: see fruit because they see what we're seeing. Yeah, 523 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,020 they see what they read in your book. They see it and they 524 00:31:53,020 --> 00:31:57,640 notice it in one of them said, I didn't know I was I had the 525 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,140 opportunity to decide to disciple my sister. Yeah, I'm 526 00:32:01,140 --> 00:32:03,300 talking to her the other day, and I'm talking to her, she's 527 00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:05,460 talking back to me, and as I'm talking to her, I'm thinking, 528 00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:09,660 and that was her aha moment. Oh my goodness, this is the person 529 00:32:09,660 --> 00:32:14,400 I'm supposed to disciple, yep. So that's what she does now. And 530 00:32:14,460 --> 00:32:18,060 her sister doesn't come to church, but she's discipling 531 00:32:18,060 --> 00:32:22,460 her. She gets to love her where she's at, and now, as a sister, 532 00:32:22,460 --> 00:32:26,600 she's not frustrated at her sister, because that's her 533 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,260 journey. That's her sister's journey, and that came out of 534 00:32:30,260 --> 00:32:34,400 going through our cohort with huology, just the understanding 535 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,840 of no as a disciple, you follow Jesus. You choose to follow 536 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,860 Jesus, you choose to live changed, but now you want to 537 00:32:41,860 --> 00:32:45,460 make a disciple maker. Now you come alongside of them, and you 538 00:32:45,460 --> 00:32:49,660 help them do what you do. You help them live changed lives and 539 00:32:49,660 --> 00:32:52,300 following Jesus and be changed by Jesus. That's that's all 540 00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:56,080 you're doing. So you, what you've been able to bring to us 541 00:32:56,140 --> 00:33:00,780 is simplicity, and we always say it, it's simple, but not easy, 542 00:33:00,900 --> 00:33:01,080 right? 543 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,040 Yeah, it's not easy. That's why God keeps it simple, 544 00:33:05,820 --> 00:33:10,020 simple. And so I do see fruit. I see the excitement in the 545 00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:12,480 people, even those in our cohort. And we keep it to 10 546 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:18,240 people because it we're able to relate. We don't need the 547 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,040 masses. So we're trying to do it in small pockets, so that they 548 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,640 get it. We want to go deep. We don't need broad. We want to we 549 00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:28,100 like from the very beginning. Want to make sure we do this 550 00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:32,600 thing. Well, we don't need 1000 people. We just need 10. If we 551 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,720 can love on these 10, we can help equip these 10, then we're 552 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,580 good with that next cohort. Then, 553 00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:43,240 because it becomes exponential, right? If they, if it's deeply 554 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,740 caught, then even if those people don't stay in leadership, 555 00:33:47,740 --> 00:33:51,640 or don't stay at the church, yep, wherever they go, that's 556 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,060 the point. They're they're going to do the same thing. They will 557 00:33:55,060 --> 00:34:00,240 be changed forever. To me, hearing your guys's story, it's 558 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,140 the Jesus story, right? You know, you live, you live the 559 00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:09,120 fruit and and people want that fruit, right? Like you Sheldon, 560 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,200 you're like, Bunny is different. Why is she different? Yes, I 561 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,780 want to know why she's different, because I like who 562 00:34:15,780 --> 00:34:20,660 she is. Now, you know. And so you keep asking questions, and 563 00:34:20,660 --> 00:34:23,900 you keep trying to find out, and then that just keeps spreading. 564 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,220 Yeah, spreading, yeah. 565 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,360 One of the fruit that I have been able to witness is our 566 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:35,000 younger cohort attendees, and knowing that they chose this one 567 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,120 girl, she's like, I think I'm going to disciple I'm going to 568 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,000 tell my grandma that I'm going to disciple her and wow, to 569 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:49,240 think that we break that that mindset of only older can teach 570 00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:55,180 younger, and younger only can receive rather than teach. That, 571 00:34:55,180 --> 00:34:58,480 to me, is a huge hurdle, especially in our culture, 572 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,760 because she she. Came in, she's like, I'm not really that great. 573 00:35:02,820 --> 00:35:05,700 I was, I didn't have good grades in school, and I have a hard 574 00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:10,440 time reading. And you sure I'm I'm supposed to be in here. And 575 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:16,800 I'm like, yes, yes, the Lord specifically said you. And she's 576 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,380 okay. I don't know who I can disciple. I mean, maybe my 577 00:35:19,380 --> 00:35:21,860 younger brother, my sister anyway, for her to come back and 578 00:35:21,860 --> 00:35:25,760 say, I, because one of the exercises was to ask the Lord, 579 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,400 and she's like, okay, let's just, let's just do it. Let's 580 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,360 try. Just try it. And for her to say, my I'm going to ask my 581 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,380 grandma, and her grandma is someone who comes to church and 582 00:35:36,380 --> 00:35:40,960 will probably say, okay, yeah, let's I want to be a disciple 583 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:47,920 maker, and to me, it's like that makes all the hard work worth 584 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,120 it, and it gives me the hope that even when I'm not here 585 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,960 anymore, that it continues exactly what Jesus did. I'm 586 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,480 going to go and you guys are going to do great things, 587 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,100 because my spirit is going to empower you. And I rely on that. 588 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,340 And I just am like, Okay, Lord, what do you want us to do? And 589 00:36:05,340 --> 00:36:08,340 he's like, do what I ask. Just go love my people, my sheep, and 590 00:36:08,340 --> 00:36:11,280 tell them about me and empower them, and I'm going to send the 591 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,740 Spirit and and, and that makes me hopeful. And it's it made 592 00:36:16,860 --> 00:36:20,900 holding the rope for all those years worth it. I knew it was 593 00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:22,160 worth it because, well, that's why 594 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:23,720 Jessie Cruickshank: I had to go through the discipleship class 595 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:31,580 seven times. You had the strong enough seven certificates, 596 00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:36,200 exactly. It's like seven years worth of certificates. Look at 597 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,660 this. Guys are so drained. You 598 00:36:38,660 --> 00:36:41,320 Unknown: know what I love about that? Because I because I was 599 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,380 asking the Lord. I said, that can't be in vain the Lord. And 600 00:36:44,380 --> 00:36:48,220 he said, No, people still learned. They still were able to 601 00:36:48,220 --> 00:36:50,560 memorize scripture, they still got the word, they were still 602 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,500 able to do but they didn't make disciples. What we're trying to 603 00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:57,460 do is make disciple makers. So they went through the class and 604 00:36:57,460 --> 00:36:59,500 they be, some of them became teachers, but they're just 605 00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:02,820 teaching them to do the same thing. It's not perpetual, 606 00:37:03,300 --> 00:37:07,080 because where are they now, right? If we had 200 people 607 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,660 through those classes, we should have 200 discipleship Oh, 200 608 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,160 disciple makers. But we didn't. It ended, and that, that was it, 609 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,580 and then they served. But this is perpetual. We're talking 610 00:37:17,580 --> 00:37:20,840 about. This is you're, you're making disciple makers. It is a 611 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,640 lifestyle. This is an ongoing, continuous life. There is no 612 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,480 ending, right? So I'm still being discipled. There's I'm 613 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:34,160 still just today. Today, I caught myself and I said, I 614 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,460 said, Hey, that's a good idea. That's probably what I didn't 615 00:37:37,460 --> 00:37:39,980 think about. I didn't see from your perspective. Tell me about 616 00:37:39,980 --> 00:37:42,700 that, then they would tell me, this is what I see. I said, 617 00:37:42,940 --> 00:37:46,480 Awesome. Why don't you guys talk about what you just learned 618 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,060 today, let me know how I can help, and then we can move on 619 00:37:49,060 --> 00:37:52,660 from there to me. That was that had nothing to do with the thing 620 00:37:52,660 --> 00:37:56,680 we were fixing. What it had to do is, what it had to do with is 621 00:37:56,740 --> 00:38:02,520 I felt anger, I felt frustration, but then I'm being 622 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:07,260 discipled by this person right now that my old neural pathway, 623 00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:11,100 I feel it, but my new neural pathway is now firing, so now I 624 00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:13,680 have to switch to this new neural pathway, and now I have 625 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,560 to unlearn what I've always known to learn this new thing. 626 00:38:16,620 --> 00:38:20,040 How can I learn from what he just said? So I had to stop 627 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:25,880 myself switch that neural pathway and intentionally listen 628 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,080 to what he was saying. So it is ongoing. It is continuous. I 629 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,260 have an unbelievable team around me, right? Teams with others 630 00:38:33,500 --> 00:38:35,960 that they're going to call me on it, they're going to get in my 631 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,560 face. Great team, yeah, and we give them permission speak to us 632 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:40,660 too, because we're all 633 00:38:40,660 --> 00:38:44,200 friends, we have to be friends. Who we're we're this is our 634 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,580 community. Yeah, right, so that's who we're going on this 635 00:38:48,580 --> 00:38:53,320 journey with. This is who we're with. Everyone has something to 636 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,700 bring, and we do it together, because it's not just one person 637 00:38:57,700 --> 00:39:01,260 telling everyone what to do. It's how do we partner with what 638 00:39:01,260 --> 00:39:04,740 God is doing in you? And how do we do this? Because It's he who 639 00:39:04,740 --> 00:39:06,120 sits on the throne, not us. 640 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,220 Jessie Cruickshank: So you can experience, you're starting 641 00:39:08,580 --> 00:39:14,520 experiencing how it's actually a light burden and an easy yoke is 642 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,240 a game changer, right? Because it seems super theoretical. 643 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:21,140 Slash, don't really believe it. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I 644 00:39:21,140 --> 00:39:23,780 don't have enough faith, and that's why it feels heavy and 645 00:39:23,780 --> 00:39:28,820 hard. But when you when the culture starts to shift, and you 646 00:39:28,820 --> 00:39:33,320 feel the burden lift, because everybody is doing it, and 647 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,380 really the Holy Spirit is in charge, like, oh, you can't go 648 00:39:36,380 --> 00:39:40,720 back. I when I felt that change, like, I can't go back. I can't 649 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:43,000 go back to anything that's not shared leadership. I can't go 650 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,620 back to something that feels like a burden, because I know 651 00:39:47,620 --> 00:39:52,480 that's not the Lord, right? I mean, we are talking six, eight 652 00:39:52,540 --> 00:39:56,500 years, right? And I tell people, it takes a long time and they 653 00:39:56,500 --> 00:40:00,720 want to program because that can produce results. Yeah. Within 12 654 00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:06,000 weeks. And it's not like that, unfortunately, but let's say 655 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,300 that there is, there's a person out there, and maybe they're a 656 00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:11,940 ministry leader, maybe they're just a person in their church, 657 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:17,520 and they're contending for a community that makes disciples, 658 00:40:17,580 --> 00:40:20,960 an actual thing where we do it all together. How would you 659 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,780 encourage them? Let's, let's, maybe, yeah, close with that. 660 00:40:23,780 --> 00:40:26,960 And like, what advice would you give them or encourage them? 661 00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:30,200 Because even though you have positional authority, doesn't 662 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,960 mean actually anybody listens to you or they do what you say, 663 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,860 right? So just because you know, you could be the top dog or the 664 00:40:36,860 --> 00:40:40,900 senior pastor and say, This is what we're doing now, and no one 665 00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:45,100 goes with you, right? So it so where you are in the 666 00:40:45,100 --> 00:40:49,240 organization kind of actually doesn't matter all that much. 667 00:40:49,540 --> 00:40:53,500 Yeah, so to anybody, what? What would you say? What advice would 668 00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:54,520 you have, or encouragement? 669 00:40:54,700 --> 00:40:59,140 Unknown: Stay very close to Jesus. Just hold space with Holy 670 00:40:59,140 --> 00:41:04,140 Spirit. Just sit and let him be your encourager, because there's 671 00:41:04,140 --> 00:41:06,900 going to be moments where you're going to think, this is nuts, 672 00:41:07,260 --> 00:41:13,680 like, Am I able to do this? The answer is no, you're not, not 673 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:18,060 without him, and so holding that space with him, I'm going to 674 00:41:18,060 --> 00:41:22,400 tell you right now, when you whether it happens in a year, 675 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,060 whether it happens in eight years, it will be worth it. It 676 00:41:26,060 --> 00:41:33,080 will be so, so worth it. And the community that you'll see 677 00:41:33,380 --> 00:41:40,960 thrive, the reach like me, someone may never see you in 678 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:45,400 that private space with Holy Spirit contending they don't 679 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,880 have to, because that's not why we do it. We do it because the 680 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:53,200 Lord said so, and that is where the honor comes. And you're 681 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:58,000 honoring the Lord, and you may not know why or how long, but 682 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,800 when you're obedient, that's what the the blessings come, and 683 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,060 I'm now witnessing things I never thought I all I wanted was 684 00:42:06,060 --> 00:42:10,380 for Sheldon to be nicer to me. That's all I want, unless you 685 00:42:10,380 --> 00:42:14,940 are right. I was like, bro, what? I was like, Lord, what are 686 00:42:14,940 --> 00:42:18,720 you doing? Why? Why? And he's like, you don't need to know 687 00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:24,860 why, how you're gonna hold this rope until I tell you let it go. 688 00:42:25,460 --> 00:42:28,820 And when you let it go, the cells are gonna open up, and my 689 00:42:28,820 --> 00:42:30,920 wind's gonna blow and you're gonna see that. Don't worry 690 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,680 about who's in leadership I was. Don't worry who's in charge. 691 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:38,540 Don't worry about like I was in this room, this space in 2010 692 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,000 where the Lord told me that, and I was so frustrated. I'm like, I 693 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,400 couldn't breathe, and I didn't know why I couldn't breathe in 694 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,520 this I was like, What is wrong with this church? Like I can't 695 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,180 breathe, like it's so heavy, and the Lord's like, this is what I 696 00:42:52,180 --> 00:42:55,360 need you to do, and I need you to pull down the cells are going 697 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,060 to come down, and there's the ship's not going to move, and 698 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,900 you're going to hold the rope until I tell you. And I just 699 00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:04,680 contended for Sheldon, and I prayed, and I just sat and I 700 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,200 said, Hey, Lord, what do you want me to do? Need you to pray, 701 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,700 and you need to and you're going to honor me in that, not anyone 702 00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:14,220 else, and no one's going to see you. Are you okay with that? 703 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,280 Like no one's going to see you doing this? Are you okay with 704 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:17,940 that? Yes, 705 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,800 and I struggle long as he's nicer to me. No, no, I wasn't. 706 00:43:21,980 --> 00:43:24,200 That was a joke, but it was like, because we still did 707 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,480 ministry, and I just remember Kay Lord, and it would 708 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:31,040 constantly come back up and and I would have to do retreat to go 709 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,980 spend time with Holy Spirit. Like, are you sure? Is this 710 00:43:33,980 --> 00:43:36,980 really what I'm supposed to do? Because, and then I would get 711 00:43:36,980 --> 00:43:40,960 job offers. You know, when I would leave home, it would be 712 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,740 like, I could be like, breathe. Oh, I can do who be, who I was 713 00:43:44,740 --> 00:43:47,200 supposed to be. And then the Lord's like, no, I need you to 714 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,340 stay right there. I was like, Okay. And then whatever, the 715 00:43:51,340 --> 00:43:54,100 Lord's like, I'm going to work on you. Don't just look at 716 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,880 everybody else. It's going to be you that I'm going to try to 717 00:43:58,300 --> 00:44:02,260 unpack all of these things. And I remember just holding on. And 718 00:44:02,260 --> 00:44:04,320 that was the vision. Gave me. Just hold on to the rope, and 719 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,540 you're gonna sit there now. You're gonna see other people do 720 00:44:06,540 --> 00:44:08,820 things, and you can't do anything because you're holding 721 00:44:08,820 --> 00:44:11,460 the rope, and you're gonna see Sheldon at the helm, and you're 722 00:44:11,460 --> 00:44:15,000 just gonna hold the rope until I tell you to let it go. And it 723 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:21,300 was right before, like, think it's 2019 it's about 2019 it's 724 00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:26,240 coming to the end of 2019 when the Lord said, Okay, let go. And 725 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:29,180 I just let go. And it was like, it the winds came, and just our 726 00:44:29,180 --> 00:44:32,180 whole church just, and what was interesting about it, because 727 00:44:32,180 --> 00:44:35,180 right before pandemic too, and it was like, and now we're 728 00:44:35,180 --> 00:44:41,560 starting to see a different like, he's giving us different 729 00:44:42,220 --> 00:44:46,300 direction. And I can look back and go, oh, oh, that's what you 730 00:44:46,300 --> 00:44:49,900 are doing. And now I can encourage others. Hey, maybe the 731 00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:54,880 Lord's telling you to hold rope. Just hold that rope. Sit and 732 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,580 when you let go, you watch what he does, and you get to be a 733 00:44:57,580 --> 00:45:01,380 part of what God's doing. So be encouraged with. That because it 734 00:45:01,380 --> 00:45:05,940 is life changing, and people come to know Jesus, and you got 735 00:45:05,940 --> 00:45:07,020 to be a part of that. 736 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,600 Jessie Cruickshank: That's so good. That's so good. She'll 737 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,060 anything you'd add to that. Yeah, I mean, it was perfect. 738 00:45:12,060 --> 00:45:13,020 But to 739 00:45:14,460 --> 00:45:19,200 Unknown: add anything it was, it was my aha moment. Was watching 740 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,520 Doctor Strange. So Doctor Strange came out his there's a 741 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,520 line in the movie where Doctor Strange says something, it's 742 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,580 supposed to be funny. The sorcerer, librarian, I forget 743 00:45:28,580 --> 00:45:32,600 his name anyway. He doesn't Wong, yeah, he doesn't laugh. 744 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,960 And Dr, strange says, usually people laugh at that. And he 745 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:42,160 says, did they work for you so? And he said that, I'm like, Oh, 746 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:47,500 my goodness, are all these people that are around me like 747 00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:51,880 that because I'm the senior pastor and they must behave this 748 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,480 way? Are they? Are they my friends? Or aren't they my 749 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,260 friends? Because long ago, when I was in when I was a junior 750 00:45:59,260 --> 00:46:01,860 high Pastor, I was maybe 21 751 00:46:04,380 --> 00:46:08,820 around there. While I was serving, one of the teenagers 752 00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:14,820 was acting up. Left the youth room. I went after. I said, Hey, 753 00:46:14,820 --> 00:46:18,660 why aren't you listening? So we got into this squabble. And then 754 00:46:18,660 --> 00:46:22,460 she left with, you're not my dad. And then she walked away. I 755 00:46:22,460 --> 00:46:25,640 said, Hey, I may not be your dad, but I'm your friend, okay? 756 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,460 And now we're still good friends today. She's like, 40 something 757 00:46:28,460 --> 00:46:31,640 years old. Anyway, the youth pastor told me, said, and he 758 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,520 heard what I said. He said, I'm going to teach you something 759 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:39,860 right now that will help you. You cannot be friends with 760 00:46:39,860 --> 00:46:46,840 people in ministry. Then the moment he said that, instantly I 761 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,680 felt the Lord hold that like guarded my heart. Oh, thank God. 762 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:55,300 And said, don't listen to that. Don't listen because all I knew 763 00:46:55,300 --> 00:47:00,220 was to be friends with people in ministry. Another person told me 764 00:47:00,340 --> 00:47:03,480 you cannot hire your friends because there's a conflict of 765 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,020 interest. So you cannot be friends with people on staff. 766 00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:11,700 Lonely at the top. And then that was the other one, just letting 767 00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:14,040 you know, when you get into this it's going to be lonely at the 768 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,220 top those three moments. The first one was, don't listen to 769 00:47:17,220 --> 00:47:21,200 that. Guard your heart. The second one was, why can't I 770 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,460 Jesus had friends with him? The third one, when they said it's 771 00:47:25,460 --> 00:47:29,180 lonely at the top was then I don't want to be at the top. Why 772 00:47:29,180 --> 00:47:33,200 would I want to get to the top and be lonely? Who wants that? 773 00:47:33,380 --> 00:47:36,020 Right? So I'd rather be at the bottom with my friends than on 774 00:47:36,020 --> 00:47:36,080 the 775 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,860 top right 100% yes. So if 776 00:47:39,860 --> 00:47:43,240 God calls me his friend. Why can't I call my coworkers my 777 00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:45,640 friends? Why can't I call people to ministry? My friends? Yeah, 778 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:48,400 ministry is hard. Do it with your friends. Do it with your 779 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,100 friends. That's why we can continue to me the highest form 780 00:47:51,100 --> 00:47:54,640 and the highest honor of any relationship is friendship. 781 00:47:54,640 --> 00:48:00,420 Yeah, yep. God calls us friends. How much higher can we get in a 782 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:05,220 totem pole of or a hierarchy of relational value, it has to be 783 00:48:05,220 --> 00:48:06,000 friendship. And 784 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,080 the other thing is, like, it's lonely at the top. I mean, God 785 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,260 doesn't even do it alone, right, right? You know, it's not 786 00:48:13,260 --> 00:48:15,960 biblical to be alone, like he can't even do it. Like, yeah, 787 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,560 there's the Trinity, yeah, right. And so, yeah, bad advice, 788 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,560 and I'm glad you didn't take it for those who 789 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:26,120 are listening and you're wondering, like you, you stay 790 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,980 strong in relational value if it takes eight years, fight for it, 791 00:48:31,100 --> 00:48:34,760 fight for your relationships, fight for the value that you 792 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,960 have. And when it goes bad, don't just forget about it and 793 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,160 say, Okay, well, too bad. Like, learn something from it. And 794 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,160 yes, as far as it depends on you be at peace with all people, but 795 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,740 that's the farthest you can actually go. You can't force 796 00:48:47,740 --> 00:48:50,860 people to be your friends. You can't force people to when 797 00:48:50,860 --> 00:48:54,820 there's betrayal, to now come together. And you must do this. 798 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,240 You do the very best that you can when it comes to relational 799 00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:01,680 value. Other people are going to make their decisions too. You 800 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,400 can't own everything that doesn't belong to you, or you 801 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,920 can't own things that doesn't belong to you. You can own what 802 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,580 belongs to you, but if other people make their decisions, you 803 00:49:11,580 --> 00:49:16,140 can disciple and love from afar too, and just continue on with 804 00:49:16,140 --> 00:49:19,320 what bunny said. So you got to stay close to Jesus. That's the 805 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,460 only way possible. The more we run to Jesus, if you look at a 806 00:49:22,460 --> 00:49:24,740 triangle, right, if you're on opposite ends, the more you run 807 00:49:24,740 --> 00:49:28,400 to Jesus, the closer you get to each other. So run to Jesus. 808 00:49:30,140 --> 00:49:32,780 Jessie Cruickshank: You guys are amazing. You guys are amazing. 809 00:49:32,780 --> 00:49:38,000 We love you so much. I love you guys so well. Thank you for 810 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,900 being on the ordinary discipleship podcast today. I 811 00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:44,140 hope, if you're out there and you're listening, I hope you 812 00:49:44,140 --> 00:49:46,900 were encouraged. I hope you were challenged. I hope you were 813 00:49:46,900 --> 00:49:50,620 inspired, if anything, be inspired to come to Hilo, 814 00:49:50,620 --> 00:49:56,500 Hawaii, and come visit New Hope Hilo and see what it looks like 815 00:49:56,500 --> 00:50:02,160 to turn a culture of of a large. Your church, right? Not not a 816 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,640 not a starting church, not a smaller church. They have 817 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,240 different cultures, different challenges, but you can always 818 00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:13,200 come out here and visit, yes, my dear friends and so we love you. 819 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,640 If you are interested in more about hoology, you can always 820 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:23,240 check out whoology.co. That's W, H, O, O, o, l, o, G, y.co, we've 821 00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:27,440 got some resources. We've got an online class that you can have 822 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:32,180 for small groups. So it's a it's a Bible study and and Bunny you 823 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,660 you know, you can get a reference if you want, and ask 824 00:50:35,660 --> 00:50:38,480 them you know how it works and how it you know what they like 825 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,040 about it. So, but we just want to thank you for joining us 826 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,940 today and yeah, be blessed. Go be out there with the Lord 827 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:46,480 Aloha. 828 00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:47,140 Unknown: Aloha, a.