Liberty Combined
===

Katie Marinello: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Carried Far, far Away, a podcast where we are watching and reading everything Carrie Fisher did in her short life and story career. My name is Katie Mariella and

Claire Fisher: Claire Fisher.

Katie Marinello: today we are discussing Liberty. Liberty, Liberty. Liberty.

Claire Fisher: I was wondering how long it would take us to make that joke.

Katie Marinello: Oh, so apologies for the COVID cough. I am on hopefully the tail end of my third bout of COVID in five years. So

Claire Fisher: Get your booster shots.

Katie Marinello: yeah, I get your boost shots. COVID is still very much around. , Claire's husband had it. My dad had it. Our dad, sorry, our dad had it.

Claire Fisher: Hmm.

Katie Marinello: And now me. But oddly enough, we have not all seen each other, so it's not like we spread it.

Claire Fisher: It's all from separate vectors. Yeah.

Of the four people you've just mentioned, I'm the only one who's commuting on public transit on the regular. So the fact that y'all got it and I

Katie Marinello: I know, where have I been? I mean, I've been nowhere. Well anyway,

Claire Fisher: [00:01:00] with a

Katie Marinello: except in a house. Yeah. As soon as he got it, he quarantined. , I kept my door closed as much as possible, but, probably should have gone to a hotel. Mom didn't get it and she slept next to him, so,

Claire Fisher: So get your booster shots.

Katie Marinello: yep. You just never know.

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: However, I will say, remember a couple episodes ago I said that I'd rather have COVID again than sun Stroke still holds true.

Claire Fisher: Yep. Okay.

Katie Marinello: Because I was able to work and I can make my own soup.

Claire Fisher: So hydrate and get your booster

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: to the Public Health podcast, run by two people who are exactly as qualified as RFK Junior to weigh in on other people's health

Katie Marinello: Now Claire, neither of us has had a direct, well, actually, yeah, no. Neither of us has had a ancestor who was president.

Claire Fisher: that we know of.

Katie Marinello: Right? Well, I was thinking,

Claire Fisher: uncle really an ancestor?

Katie Marinello: well, I was thinking Ben [00:02:00] Franklin, but he's as much of an ancestor to us as JFK is RFK Junior. But he was never president, so,

Claire Fisher: Okay. We've gotten a bit off

Katie Marinello: so speaking of president, no, we haven't gotten off traffic at all. We're talking about presidents. There's a president in this movie, at least one.

Claire Fisher: and completely misrepresented too. I was offended on behalf of the ghost of Ulysses s Grant.

Katie Marinello: Oh yes. , He really needs your you to defend his honor.

Claire Fisher: I mean, they just put the, the portrait of Robert E. Lee back in the West Point Library. I

Katie Marinello: true.

Claire Fisher: if there's any angry unsettled ghost in America right now, it's grants.

Katie Marinello: I do have a confession for you.

Claire Fisher: What's that?

Katie Marinello: I think I liked this movie.

Claire Fisher: Ah.

Katie Marinello: I know, I know, I know, I know. It took me a long time to start it, as you know, because it's not available on any of the streaming services.

I had to watch it on a very small screen and I kept missing things and having to go back and having to start over. [00:03:00] So the first 54 minutes, which by the way 54 minutes is how long it takes for Carrie Fisher to show up in this movie. The first 54 minute minutes were rough for me. , And I'm not saying she turned it around because I don't think it was her specifically, but something about that last hour, I think I started to enjoy it a little bit

Claire Fisher: Okay,

Katie Marinello: and I, the whole time I was like, Claire's gonna be so mad.

Claire Fisher: I will say I wanted to like it,

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: but there are reasons why I did not We're gonna get into

Katie Marinello: all right. Why don't you tell the people what this movie's about? 'cause I guarantee nobody's seen it.

Claire Fisher: No, nobody has seen it. In fact, we would like to do a special shout out to my good friend Henry, the, godfather of obscure media location online for finding us a copy of this Liberty, which aired on NBC June 23rd, 1986, as part of the NBC Monday night at the movies program, which

Katie Marinello: Not to be confused with Sunday night movies

Claire Fisher: no, from [00:04:00] 1963 to 1997.

NBC aired a movie every week. It was on Mondays, then it was on Wednesdays, then it went back to Mondays. But NBC did one movie a week, and these were either theatrical movies, edited for television, or they were made for tv. This is in the latter category. June 23rd, 1986, number one song in America was on my own by Patti LaBelle and Michael McDonald. it happens to be the exact same day that Eric Thomas unveiled listserv, the very first email list management software in the world.

Katie Marinello: wow.

Claire Fisher: So for

Katie Marinello: Was it like everybody who had an email address was on that list?

Claire Fisher: pretty much, yeah, you could have worked that out. In 1986, there were not that many

Katie Marinello: No.

Claire Fisher: and on NBC that evening from, I believe eight o'clock to 11 o'clock at night, so it was a three hour time slot.

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: we saw a two hour and 16 minute version, 'cause no commercials, but

Katie Marinello: Right?

Claire Fisher: hour time spot you could tune in to watch Liberty.

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: you're probably [00:05:00] wondering what is it about,

Katie Marinello: Yes.

Claire Fisher: allow me to summarize.

Katie Marinello: Alright. And go.

Claire Fisher: Carrie Fisher plays Emma Lazarus, whose poem the New Colossus is on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. Because this movie is so terrible, I'll now spend the rest of my time reciting the new Colossus from Memory with my eyes closed. Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame with conquering limbs of stride from land to land.

Here at our sea washed sunset gates shall stand a mighty woman with a torch whose flame is the imprisoned lightning. And her name, mother of exiles from her beacon hand blows worldwide. Welcome her mild eyes. Command the airbridge harbor that twin cities frame. ancient lands, your storied pipe christee with silent lips. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled muscles yearning to breathe free. Send these, the homeless tempest tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Katie Marinello: You still have five seconds?

Claire Fisher: Cool. For the record, can you tell the people that I, I did that with my eyes closed.

Katie Marinello: no, [00:06:00] I, I almost suggested because I have COVID that we not have our cameras on for this, particular session, but I'm really glad I didn't, 'cause I'm definitely putting that on Instagram.

Claire Fisher: Okay,

I

Katie Marinello: okay.

Claire Fisher: you will now insist that I actually do a re 54 second summary.

Katie Marinello: Oh, did you actually write one?

Claire Fisher: Yeah, I did, but

Katie Marinello: Okay.

Claire Fisher: popped for the, just to hear you laugh.

Katie Marinello: Yes, go ahead.

Claire Fisher: fine. Carrie Fisher plays Emma Lazarus, whose poem The New Colossus is on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty.

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: gives her an entirely fictional friendship with a made up person.

Joseph Marchand, a French Jewish Coppersmith who moves to New York City in the 1860s and goes to work for an Irish American boss named Seamus Marchand, befriends an equally fictional Freedman Robert Johnson, and ends up marrying his boss's illiterate niece Moya, who struggles to keep up with him intellectually. This snooze worthy plot is intertwined with and takes all of the attention away from the real story of Frederick August Mart. Designing liberty, enlightening the world, and embarking on a decades long quest to get it funded and built after seriously insulting the legacies of multiple real people.

The movie [00:07:00] finally attempts to ring some emotion out of Seamus dying pointlessly in a fall from the scaffolding, which never happened.

Katie Marinello: Never happened.

Claire Fisher: it ends with footage of the statue and a voiceover of Carrie reading the new Colossus that which is the best part of the whole movie.

Katie Marinello: I agree. That actually did piss me off. Nobody died during the building of the Statue of Liberty.

Claire Fisher: There's a point of pride for Liberty Island that

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: safely in the 1880s.

Katie Marinello: Yeah. Which was not a historically good time for workers, which this movie does make a point of kind of. I

So I was like, all right, well maybe somebody died. I know these people didn't exist, but maybe somebody died. No, nobody died.

Claire Fisher: Nope.

Katie Marinello: And that's weird. It's weird because I didn't feel like they needed it. But anyway, I need you to take us through the first half of this movie, because I took zero notes for the first half of this movie.

Claire Fisher: Okay.

Katie Marinello: Until Emma Lasker shows up. Here's what I wrote down. Oh, that kind of liberty.[00:08:00] 

Claire Fisher: what kind of liberty did you

Katie Marinello: I didn't know. I mean, Claire, the name of the movie is Liberty. It could mean like a lot of things. It could be about a war, it could be about just the country.

Claire Fisher: Yeah,

Katie Marinello: It could be another music video for all. I know Liberty is a very vague name, so I did not know until I got to And it took a while. Right. 'cause we start with like,

Claire Fisher: all kinds of irrelevant things here.

Katie Marinello: yeah.

With the, , immigration story. So it could have been an immigration story for all I know until we get to France and, people whose names I can't pronounce because they don't speak French.

Claire Fisher: Okay. Well,

Katie Marinello: Frederick and, Edward.

Claire Fisher: yeah.

Katie Marinello: They are talking about the statue. I was like, oh, there we go. Okay, now I see where we are.

I have centered myself in space and time, only to have it ripped away from me pretty quickly afterwards.

Claire Fisher: mm-hmm. Well, I knew what this was gonna

Katie Marinello: I

Claire Fisher: because I knew Carrie Fisher played Emma [00:09:00] Lazarus in a made for TV movie about the construction of the Statue of Liberty,

Katie Marinello: Oh,

Claire Fisher: because she mentions that in her memoir when she talks about how she came to meet and date Senator Chris dod.

Katie Marinello: Oh yeah.

Claire Fisher: filmed in Baltimore, New York City had been modernized by the 1980s, so you couldn't film a period piece there.

Katie Marinello: Oh, okay.

Claire Fisher: the, a lot of the filming is actually in parts of Baltimore that still look vaguely old.

Katie Marinello: Okay. It all comes back to Maryland. I swear since I moved down here, I've learned that Maryland is actually the center of the universe and I left New York City to move down here, so that is surprising. Uh.

Claire Fisher: Yeah. So this film partially on location in France. Her scenes were all filmed in Baltimore. That's where she met Senator Chris Dodd. And they had a relationship which he would later describe as a brief courtship that happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, and which she would later describe as sleeping together a few times. So,

Katie Marinello: for a rinky dink made for TV movie. I wonder what their [00:10:00] budget was because they really did a lot of different sets.

Claire Fisher: they did.

Katie Marinello: So I wondered about where it had been filmed and all that. So

Claire Fisher: So this was actually made to honor slash cash in on the hundredth anniversary of the dedication of the

Katie Marinello: yes, I read that. Yeah.

Claire Fisher: just reopened to the public after a two year restoration. Its own screenwriter hated it so much. He asked to be credited under a pseudonym and, it had extremely negative reviews with Jeff Jarvis of People Magazine calling it quote as pretentious as a high school sophomore, trying to act like a college freshman. And Clifford Terry of the Chicago Tribune describing it as quote TT as well as ludicrous. So

Katie Marinello: Huh. I stand in sharp contrast with

Claire Fisher: stand in

Katie Marinello: The general public. And you never hate movies. So this is,

Claire Fisher: hated this movie.

Katie Marinello: know,

Claire Fisher: Okay.

Katie Marinello: she hated it so much. She texted me to tell me she hated it, which isn't something we try not to do because we try [00:11:00] to do as much on mic as possible.

Claire Fisher: Okay, so let's go over sort of the plot such as it is for this

Katie Marinello: Let's, let's go through it much faster.

Claire Fisher: much

Katie Marinello: say the biggest issue I had with this movie was the, the timing

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: so much takes up so much time. That does not need to take up that much time.

Claire Fisher: because they spend so much

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: fictional characters

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: is actually interesting.

Katie Marinello: I did have that thought. I was like, I think this is actually a really interesting story. I'm not sure we needed, I mean, I know we didn't, but I understand contrasting it with an immigrant story.

Claire Fisher: Sure.

Katie Marinello: It's just that this immigrant story had no internal consistency or character development, really.

Claire Fisher: Yeah. So, Marchant, the entirely fictional immigrant cropper Smith, whom they have inserted into the story

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: Chris Sarandon,

Katie Marinello: Uh, yes. Chris Sarandon. he is, well known for playing Jerry Dandridge Inright Knight, prince, hump Dick in the [00:12:00] Princess Bride, detective Vice Norris in child's play and Jack skeleton's speaking Voice in the nightmare before Christmas. He was a nom nominated for the Academy Award for best supporting actor for his performance as Leon Shermer in Dog Day Afternoon.

So kind of a, you know, decent name to get as the star of this. As far as I can tell, he is neither French nor Jewish.

Claire Fisher: No. Nobody in this movie, which is set in France is French. Um,

Katie Marinello: Oh. And the French accents, uh,

Claire Fisher: yeah, they were pretty hair raising. Okay,

Katie Marinello: that's not true. Actually. One person is French.

Claire Fisher: who's French?

Katie Marinello: Corinne Tze, who plays Frederick's girlfriend eventually wife is a French actress and there's absolutely no other information about her.

Claire Fisher: All right. So the first hour of this movie,

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: Jacques Marchand, French Jewish Coppersmith,

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: comes to America

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: an immigration processing station, which is interesting because it's 1869, and we didn't actually have immigration processing

Katie Marinello: [00:13:00] Did catch that. Yep.

Claire Fisher: Different states had like a medical quarantine system, but like he wouldn't have been asked, what's your religion and your purpose for coming to America?

Because at the time before 1872, we literally had no restrictions on immigration in America,

Katie Marinello: You wanna talk about open borders? We had literal open borders.

Claire Fisher: literal open borders. His immigration to America would've amounted to, hi, do you have a contagious disease?

Katie Marinello: Yes.

Claire Fisher: the whole first hour of the movie contrasts his search for his place in America with Frederick Bartholdi fighting in the Franco Prussian war, which gets completely glossed

Katie Marinello: Completely like it's yada, yada, yada. So he's in France talking about the statue that he wants to make

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: And then there's talk of, oh, there's going to be a war.

Claire Fisher: yeah. And then there's an actual war that he fights in

Katie Marinello: And they jump right through that. Yeah. There's a jump forward to him talking about having been in the war,

Claire Fisher: Okay, great. I'm sure there was [00:14:00] nothing interesting about the Fran oppression war. Nothing.

Katie Marinello: he saw Liberty's face through it, Claire?

Claire Fisher: Yeah. I know he's looked into the devil's eyes that the only face he saw was liberty. What?

Katie Marinello: Indeed.

You don't understand. I was there. I was there. This ridiculous war. I looked into the devil's eye and through it all I could see only one face.

Liberty. I must find her. I must find.

Claire Fisher: So, uh, you mentioned Frederick and Edward. Edward De, I'm sorry I'm not French Lale.

Katie Marinello: Yeah. Sure.

Claire Fisher: Dele actually was someone who was, a democracy activist in France. Really

Katie Marinello: Mm.

Claire Fisher: that the United States had a democracy at this point,

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: his idea to try to organize the gift of a public art piece to the United States from France that would face back towards Europe and be named liberty and lightening [00:15:00] the world, which is what gave Frederick August Bartholdi the inspiration to work on this statue. , However, in their scene together, they're talking not really about that, but about whether Napoleon III deserves to be emperor, which in real life he became emperor in 1852. So people in 1869 were just sitting around saying like, gee, did we make a mistake 17 years ago? Right.

I don't understand. How did this fall end up ruling for

the people wanted him. They remembered his uncle took like Napoleon with all that false glory. They forgot about the blood. Yes, that's why the statue was so important. Easy, my friend. But the idea is yours. A statue made in France. Designed in France, and placed in the United States, the only truly free country on earth facing Europe.

Katie Marinello: Well, 17 [00:16:00] years is a long time,

Claire Fisher: Yeah,

Katie Marinello: and if he is royally fucked it up,

Claire Fisher: he did royally fuck it up. But it was unclear how royally he had fucked it up until the Franco Oppression war, which once again happens in the middle of this movie,

Katie Marinello: right? Yes. Okay. But if Eduardo, Edward, whatever his name is, if he was a democracy activist, he may have had a more strong opinion on this, then your average French citizen,

Claire Fisher: it's fair.

Katie Marinello: also the French, are like kind of known for the revolutions.

Claire Fisher: They have a lot of them and including one that was at the end of the Franco Oppression war, which is weird. 'cause in this movie, later on at the end of the Franco Oppression war, he like goes back to Paris. And I was like, that would be some neat trick considering it was under siege for two years and they got taken over by an anarchist commune.

Katie Marinello: Well, Claire, they broke his pottery.

Claire Fisher: They were having to take the mail in and out by hot air balloon and they ate the animals out of the zoo. Okay. Sorry.

Katie Marinello: And, and that was represented by the broken pottery[00:17:00] 

Claire Fisher: Okay. So

Katie Marinello: in his still standing house.

Claire Fisher: while they're yada ying, the major events of the 1870s, we are watching Marshan look for work, facing antisemitism,

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: and bartholdi like sketching different faces, trying to see like who he would model the statue on. Do you remember who the statues actually modeled after?

Katie Marinello: His mother.

Claire Fisher: Yeah. So there was not a long search for a model.

He just drew his mother.

Katie Marinello: Yeah, no, I know. But the long search for the model. Is so confusing to me because he does this. You know, I must find her. I must find her. Finds the woman he wants to come model for him. Never really says, but her face is wrong. And then after the CRO push war says his brother, I must find her, find you.

Claire Fisher: I think there he is talking about, he has to track down the model who went missing during the war. 'cause she then comes back to him, but

Katie Marinello: I don't think so. He [00:18:00] says, I just saw Liberty's face through the war,

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: so.

Claire Fisher: So the yada yachting of the Fran oppression war, instead of telling us about that,

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: they, they tell us that marshant, is like dying of hunger.

And he like shouts. I am a coppersmith before fainting on the stoop of a, of a shop that is run by Seamus George Kennedy.

Katie Marinello: George Harris Kennedy Jr. Was an American actor who appeared in more than a hundred films. He played Drag Line in Cool Hand, Luke winning the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor. , He received a second Golden Globe nomination after Cool Hand Luke for portraying Joe Pet in airport.

He's actually the only actor ever to appear in all four airport films. , And he also portrays, , police Captain Ed Hawkin in the Nike gun series of films and Corrupt Oil tycoon. Carter McKay on the original Dallas Television series, and I have to mention this because of Carrie Fisher's famous, [00:19:00] monologue about this.

He was married four times to three women because

Claire Fisher: They

Katie Marinello: they had great memories of each other.

Claire Fisher: Well, who else works in this, in this, little Forge, Katie.

Katie Marinello: Laton, Laton, Briton.

Claire Fisher: And Brian made me pause it. He was like, is that little baby LaVar Burton? And I was like, he's not that little. He wasn't that little.

Katie Marinello: No, this is only a year before TNG, so

Claire Fisher: was already the host of Reading Rainbow. It was nine years after Roots. So like this was well established, grown up LaVar Burton. He just looks young. 'cause now we're used to seeing him, you know, as himself today.

Katie Marinello: Right. Since I figured everybody kind of knows who LaVar Burton is, do you know his full name?

Claire Fisher: Uh, no,

Katie Marinello: levardis, Robert Martin Burton Jr. Levardis. Yeah,

obviously best known for Jordy laforge and Star Trek. Cote in Roots and as the host of the PBS Kids Educational [00:20:00] Television series, reading Rainbow, which he hosted for hell on Claire,

Claire Fisher: 17 years.

Katie Marinello: 23 years from 1983 to 2006, so they were still making new episodes of that when we were in high school.

I did not know that. , And , he received 12 daytime Emmy awards for that show and a Peabody Award as well. So LaVar Burton, other than Carrie Fisher, probably the highlight of this movie for me, just because he's there, not because of his character doing anything.

Claire Fisher: Did we actually skip who plays Bartholdi?

That's how little screen time they give him in this movie. That's about his life's work, by the way. Is that We just forgot to tell you who plays him.

Katie Marinello: Yes, yes. Sorry. Franklin, mostly known for theater having started in the play Yma. In 1966, he's received four Tony Awards out of seven nominations. He also received an Academy Award nomination for reprising. His role as Richard Nixon, which he had previously played on stage in, Ron Howard's, film, frost [00:21:00] Nixon, where the president does it, it is not illegal.

Claire Fisher: Right. He's also mentioned on our favorite, show Angel, as the only performer of Dracula whose performance Angel actually believed.

Katie Marinello: I did notice he was a Dracula. Yeah. But I was like, which Dracula? Somebody draculas.

Claire Fisher: There are so many options. Okay. Anyway, can you tell how little I liked this movie is, I don't even really wanna keep talking about it. I'd rather discuss Dracula references, but Okay.

Katie Marinello: Well, no, no. We already had an episode. Well, no, we had an episode on Frankenstein. I guess we could do an episode on Dracula.

Claire Fisher: Sure.

Katie Marinello: Um, where were we?

Claire Fisher: Okay. So Marshawn faints at the door of

Katie Marinello: Yes. Okay.

Claire Fisher: and the nurse and backs of health, the, the

Katie Marinello: Oh, yes. And he meets his boss's or Seamus niece. , Her name is, moya, MOYA. She is from Ireland as a Seamus. And [00:22:00] her Irish accent comes and goes with a well pleases,

Claire Fisher: Yeah, basically.

Katie Marinello: She's played by Dana Delaney. She is an American actress, no surprise there, and received her breakthrough role as Colleen McMurphy on the a BC television drama, China Beach.

She's also well known as playing Catherine Mayfair on Desperate Housewives. And she also has the longest tenure of playing Lois Lane, having voiced her Superman, the Animated Series, justice League and Justice League Unlimited intermittently over the course of 17 years. You can play Lois Lane for 17 years if they don't have to show your actual human woman face.

Claire Fisher: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

Katie Marinello: 'cause God forbid, Louis Lane didn't have any wrinkles. So,

Claire Fisher: And it's Moya who notes existence of the Franco Prussian

Katie Marinello: yeah, she's like, oh, didn't you hear

Claire Fisher: but she also doesn't remember if it's Russia or Prussia. 'cause she can't read.

Katie Marinello: fair?

So they meet, she's really like interested in , obviously the fact that he [00:23:00] can read, but also that, that he does read and he reads all these different writers from around the world and has aspirations of rising above his station.

Claire Fisher: All right,

Katie Marinello: At the same time. He is a really good coppersmith and, , there's a little scene where. LaVar Burton says to him, man you made all this copper and it's so light. And what was the name of that, technique that you said, and what was the name of the technique? Claire.

Claire Fisher: Ree.

Katie Marinello: And do they ever show it to us, Claire?

Claire Fisher: No, but I do That is how they put the Statue of Liberty together.

Katie Marinello: I know, but I just think it's funny. It's like the turning point of this movie and we never actually see it.

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

it's hard to believe this thing could be so light. That technique you use. What'd you call it again? Repo grape Poe. Sounds French. It sounds expensive. Sure. Looks like a dream. Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: So they like spend time with like Marchand explaining Napoleon III to Moya

Katie Marinello: mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: terms we should probably [00:24:00] cut in because they sound terrifyingly familiar to anyone who's ever witnessed a fascist takeover.

for as long as I can remember this man. Has ruled France. He filled the people's heads with foolish notions about patriotism, glory, the great strength of France. Growing up, I heard nothing else. At the same time, he suppressed all personal freedom.

The people didn't care. They wanted prosperity. They preferred the lie to the truth. That is why I left. But the people of Paris rose up. In Revolt against the repression. So it's about being free. Yes. Well, they should have it. You ask me. I hope they win.

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: Um, but like they're discussing the Fran oppression war in New York,

Katie Marinello: Instead of showing it to us

Claire Fisher: in the Fran oppression war.

Katie Marinello: not to appear in this scene.

Claire Fisher: [00:25:00] Yeah, I know, right? So, In real life, the reason I think that this deserves more attention is they barely mentioned this in the movie, but Bart's hometown got seeded to Germany as a result of

Katie Marinello: do, they, I mean, I did,

Claire Fisher: War.

Katie Marinello: they did mention that.

Claire Fisher: mentioned that an hour and a half later, okay,

Katie Marinello: Yeah. Well,

Claire Fisher: a

Katie Marinello: I mean, he's talking to his mo so at one point he's talking to his mother about this. I must find her face, whatever. And she says, I have to leave because they're coming. So

Claire Fisher: Uh huh.

Katie Marinello: I think, I think it was clear that that was being a

Claire Fisher: She says, I'll come with you to Paris. He's like, Paris is an open revolt. And then yeah, just the broken pottery

Katie Marinello: right.

Claire Fisher: studio. Yeah.

Katie Marinello: And it, becomes a story about overbearing mothers. Right? Like, mother, you can't live with me.

Claire Fisher: in real life though, he and his mother were super close. There's no reason to show Madam Bartholdi being so overbearing. She and her son had a really good creative relationship and he based world famous statue on her [00:26:00] face.

Katie Marinello: And they never even really say that.

Claire Fisher: I

Katie Marinello: Okay. All right, we're getting ahead of ourselves.

Claire Fisher: Okay,

Katie Marinello: Okay. So what's really happening over here in New York

Claire Fisher: I know.

Katie Marinello: in the , the actual action of this movie is, he's developing this friendship with, Moya and teaching Robert and Seamus this French way of putting together copper.

Claire Fisher: Yeah,

Katie Marinello: Um, they

Claire Fisher: him to teach her to read.

Katie Marinello: right, and he says, eh, maybe.

A Frenchman teaching an Irish woman to read English is a problem. No, no. I, I mean, yes, it's a problem. Oh, maybe I don't still, we could try. 

Katie Marinello: They go to a dance, right? We see a couple of dances. This is the thing they kept, like going back to the same set pieces. I guess they spent that much money on them. But like, it seemed like probably all of this could have been [00:27:00] accomplished in one dance.

But

Claire Fisher: Yeah,

Katie Marinello: in one of the dances, they make a Jewish joke, he gets offended in another dance, he asks Robert what it was like being a slave, which not a thing you should just like pull out at parties. And then Moya comes in and they dance, and then that night she comes into his room and takes her nightgown off.

Claire Fisher: It was already implied though. They didn't really need to show us that because she had already said, oh, my uncle will go to mass now. Do you wanna come to church with us? Or should we go back to the house and have tea?

Katie Marinello: Yes,

Claire Fisher: ah, your chaperone is out at church and you're inviting someone home for tea.

I don't suppose you'd be interested in going to church with me, would you? No. No. Would you like to go home then? I could make you a cup of tea. Uncle Shamus and all the others are off to math. I'm all alone down there. Cup of tea.[00:28:00] 

Why not?

Katie Marinello: That was the most suggestive cup of tea that I've heard since I saw that one video of Benedict Cumberbatch, um,

Claire Fisher: What?

Katie Marinello: where he, he talks to the tea, tea, like it's, it's his, uh, submissive and it was bizarrely sexy. I thought I told you about this.

Claire Fisher: seen this video, but Okay. Uh, perhaps

Katie Marinello: I think it changed my sexuality a little bit.

Claire Fisher: So finally at 40 minutes into the movie, you see Bartholdi working a sculpture of a figurine with a spiked crown.

Katie Marinello: We sort of didn't even talk about his models. So

Claire Fisher: Yeah. She's, keeps throwing her out of the house. He's sleeping with his model. She, he keeps throwing her out of the house when his mother's gonna visit.

Katie Marinello: I do think we need to talk about the scene. So this is [00:29:00] pre-war. When he brings her from his hometown to Paris to be his model. , And he says, I need you to take your robe off. And she is like, oh, I couldn't possibly, , which Oh wow. He got her like, he took her here under false pretenses and then asked her to get naked.

That's never happened. From an artist to a model before. And then she decides she's going to do it, which again, what choice does she have? And then she falls into his arms and that's how they fall in love. 'cause he gets to see her boobs.

Claire Fisher: But

Katie Marinello: Um,

Claire Fisher: scene is interrupted by people coming in and saying that France is going to war. So again, like, I don't know what this movie wants to tell us, but it's, it, it's mumbling everything it could

Katie Marinello: mumbling everything. So, yeah. And then like the next thing we know, they're, she's back from the war and she's. Still there and he's kicking her out so that his mother can come live with him for [00:30:00] a little bit. And why does he not marry her

Claire Fisher: Right. Just

Katie Marinello: the whole, the whole time? I'm thinking is he married? Is there some like reason she can't get married?

Like they never address why he doesn't marry her for years?

Claire Fisher: so they find time for some actual exposition. Edward says, out loud to someone as they're waving goodbye to Bartold, I guess he boards a ship. Oh, he's going to scout sites for our statue. Meanwhile, I'm going to raise the money

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: from ordinary citizens, not a sue from the government.

And I'm like, oh, everybody got that, for those

Katie Marinello: Yep. Yep. Yep.

Claire Fisher: at home. Um, um, so, you know, meanwhile, back in New York, Moya is pregnant. We saw that coming.

Katie Marinello: Yes. But here's, okay. Here's the thing about this, and I know I'm, this unfortunately is, the heart of the story. So he comes home from getting into a bar fight with, Seamus and Robert, [00:31:00] because somebody calls Robert the N word. Uh, which I have questions about the status of, desegregation in New York in the 1860s.

Claire Fisher: Well,

Katie Marinello: I mean, I know that like official segregation would've necessarily started, and I know New York was not like Jim Crow, but would he have been at the same dances as them?

Claire Fisher: well, the implication is he came as Seamus as guest, and that's why he's the only black man in the room.

Katie Marinello: Okay. He, so he's been in this bar fight. He comes home, she's sitting at the top of the stairs, and he immediately seems colder towards her, and I don't really understand where the shift happened before.

She tells him she's pregnant

Claire Fisher: yeah. Um,

Katie Marinello: Then she tells him she's pregnant. Obviously, then there's a shift.

Claire Fisher: yeah, nope. They're not interested in explaining

Katie Marinello: You don't have any explanation.

Claire Fisher: instead we see Bartholdi coming into New York Harbor and saying, oh, which island is that? Oh, it's Belos Island.

Katie Marinello: Explanation. Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: he's like making the pitch. He wants to unveil this, for America's centennial in 1876. They don't know exactly how much it's gonna cost.

The people of [00:32:00] France will pay for the statue if the people of America can contribute the cost of the pedestal and assembly of statue. Problem is you have to get the island donated by the government.

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: And Bartholdi says, well, Liberty is priceless. And then he goes to talk to President Grant, which by chance was the second portrayal of US Grant I had seen in two days

Katie Marinello: Oh.

Claire Fisher: I'd been watching a different show the day before. Grant is so rude and dismissive of the concept of public art. And I'm like,

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: real life, grant was kind of noted as like a nice guy. When you were in the room with him, even if he didn't agree with you.

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: I feel like if this meeting ever happened, it definitely wasn't that mean.

Is there a budget for this enterprise, Mr. Bargi? Well, no, not yet.

We are looking. I didn't ask that. Looking at estimates, I didn't ask that. What I want you to tell me is this, what's in it for you? 

Katie Marinello: Very weird. And also would you ever walk into a meeting with the president that unprepared? Like you should have a number.

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: Sure. Is it [00:33:00] gonna go over budget? Of course everything does. But to have no idea and really not really know what you're even asking for. But just Liberty.

Liberty. I'm sorry. I know you're an artist, but you're there to make a pitch.

Claire Fisher: Yeah. So we're an hour into this movie and we finally see Carrie

Katie Marinello: Yay. So, Rashan is walking, , home one day and he sees a sign outside. I think it's a New York public library, isn't it?

Claire Fisher: I don't think they had that public

Katie Marinello: Or a, a New York public library now, the,

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: That says poetry reading tonight. And so he goes in and there she is, 54 minutes in Emma Lazarus, played by Carrie Fisher. And she's reading a poem and I saw nothing wrong with this poem, but after the poetry reading, he decides he needs to mansplain to her what poetry is.

Claire Fisher: Oh my god, I was so furious.

Katie Marinello: It was bad. It was so awkward.

Claire Fisher: We

Katie Marinello: Um, let me see,

Claire Fisher: just 'cause [00:34:00] people won't believe us if we describe it,

I don't understand how a Jew with your talent can write poetry.

That is so incipient. Brainless, pointless. Goodnight. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Please. I, I must talk you. You can't let your talent wither on a lot of secondhand sentiments outta books. Are you a critic? No. No. I'm a coppersmith and a good one. That is the point who speaks for me. I, I'm not quite sure I understand you.

Katie Marinello: Right. How, how cringey. All I wrote was to Jacques is mansplaining, poetry and suffering to Emma. And she says, but I'm a poet, not a politician.

I'm a poet, not a politician. Yes, yes. But words can mean something. They, they can be weapons. Look at, look at what Harriet Esau did with slavery. She wrote propaganda. So you say let them meet cake.

Katie Marinello: And he [00:35:00] says, well, let me show you my world. And, you know, there's nothing rich folks love more than coming downtown.

And so let it with the poor.

You a Jew. You know how most Jews live here? Many of them are worse off than they were in Europe. Well, I don't believe that. Come, I'll show you. That's all right, Jordan. He's a friend. Alright, show me.

Katie Marinello: So he gets in her carriage with her, the carriage takes them to where he's living. And she's like, oh my goodness.

Claire Fisher: Oh, let me clutch my pearls.

Katie Marinello: Yes.

Claire Fisher: yeah,

Katie Marinello: and he says, and I have a job, which I mean, listen, wasn't, it's obviously super possible to live in New York or really any city and not see the depths of poverty in that [00:36:00] city. It's certainly possible that he felt. Passionate that people should be more true to life in their art.

But there's no indication of this in the lead up. He's not like advocating for better living conditions or better working conditions. At any point during the first hour of this movie, he is not, even complaining about the conditions for the first outta the movie. We have no indication that this is a passion of his until he starts yelling at this poor lady who he's never met.

Claire Fisher: And he even throws it in her face like, you're Jewish. You should care more about Jewish people. And

Katie Marinello: Yes.

Claire Fisher: reason I didn't like this movie is that it misrepresents the legacies of actual

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: Like Ulysses S. Grant was not anti-public

Katie Marinello: Right.

Claire Fisher: Emma Lazarus did not need a random man to come up to her and tell her that Jewish refugees existed.

Like she was super passionate. So Emma Lazarus was from a rich

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: ancestors had been at, this is interesting from a group of Portuguese Jews who arrived in New Amsterdam in 1654 to escape the Inquisition.

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. [00:37:00] Interesting.

Claire Fisher: So they'd been in New York since before it was New

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: But she was very interested in the fate of Eastern European

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: after the pogroms in Russia.

That happened in 1881.

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: a huge activist. She worked with the Hebrew Technical Institute, Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, and even founded the Society for the Improvement in colonization of Eastern European Jews. So she was not like some rich girl head in the clouds, didn't understand refugee. The woman who wrote the new Colossus understood refugees.

Okay.

Katie Marinello: But I, I mean, the implication of the movie is that she didn't before she like, went downtown. Right. Because they do, at least they show her activism with the,

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: Jewish refugees. I was worried that they wouldn't, because I also obviously knew that was a big part of her legacy. I was like, oh. So they're setting it up that he like inspired her to be an activist.

And I don't agree with any of this. I don't like any of this. This woman was more than Capable of both deepening her poetry and learning about social justice without this completely [00:38:00] fictional, made outable cloth man. But so then she asked to see his flat, asks if he's married. He says, no, not married.

And then again, they, they go to his flat and I'm like, it's not, I mean, we've, we've been to the Tenement Museum. It doesn't look that bad.

Claire Fisher: No. At least he doesn't have to live 12 in a room.

Katie Marinello: Right. It's just him.

Claire Fisher: own room.

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: Um,

Katie Marinello: there's a shared kitchen, shared bathroom, fine, whatever.

Claire Fisher: That was pretty normal for the time.

Katie Marinello: exactly. So, and then, Moya comes home or not home, I guess she comes to talk to him 'cause they're not married and she.

Gets introduced to Emma Lazarus and it's like just this awkward moment of like who he wishes he was more on par with and then like who he is gonna have to marry.

Claire Fisher: Yeah. Okay. Uh, there's an entirely fictional and actually impossible meeting where like Bartholdi gets a phone call and phones didn't exist on Earth until five years after the scene is set.

Katie Marinello: No, no, no, no. It's not a phone [00:39:00] call. It's a intercom. I

Claire Fisher: did they have intercoms? Before they had phones?

Katie Marinello: don't know,

Claire Fisher: No, the answer is no. Um,

Katie Marinello: maybe it was a radio. Yeah. Intercom is just a radio.

Claire Fisher: yeah. Okay. Wireless radio. What year was that invented?

Katie Marinello: Oh. Right before, the Titanic psych

Claire Fisher: So 40 years later?

Katie Marinello: 40 years later. Yeah.

Claire Fisher: So this is a literally impossible scene and

Katie Marinello: Unnecessary because it's just to let them know that there's people down in the lobby.

Claire Fisher: Yeah, and it's a, , gun manufacturer who will offer him money towards the building of this statue if he replaces the torch with a gun, which again, it's fictional, it's impossible, and it's unnecessary.

Katie Marinello: It is not even a gun manufacturer. It's a castor oil. It's a castor oil salesman who wants them to put a gun and then inscribe the name.

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: like, if you're an oil company, wouldn't you want the, okay,

Claire Fisher: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay, so this

Katie Marinello: he does not accept that particular sponsorship.

Claire Fisher: and [00:40:00] this is where Bartholdi and Maranda first in the same room, although they do not meet.

Katie Marinello: Freaking final. Yes. Yes. Okay. So finally, after what seems like it must have already been nine months, Seamus comes to him and says, I expect you to be a man about. My niece and so they go to get married. She's in her wedding dress at the church and the priest is like, I can't marry you because he's Jewish.

Claire Fisher: And then a rabbi won't marry them either because she's Catholic, so,

Katie Marinello: they go to the mayor of New York. Now he has just been the representative of poverty in New York City

Claire Fisher: and they go to

Katie Marinello: To,

Claire Fisher: York.

Katie Marinello: to Emma Lazar is taking her to show her the real true New Yorker, and then somehow they have connections to the mayor of New York,

Claire Fisher: Well, it's not, somehow they did mention earlier that Seamus made him register as a Democrat

Katie Marinello: right?

Claire Fisher: Seamus is in touch with Tammany Hall,

Katie Marinello: Right.

Claire Fisher: which if you're not from the New York [00:41:00] City area, we should specify, was a very corrupt party machine in New York City that pretty much ran the city and the state, and lined their own pockets for many decades. And Boss Tweed is randomly in this

Katie Marinello: Yes, he is. Isn't he the one who comes up with the Statue of Liberty name?

Claire Fisher: Okay. It's super suspect because 1871 is actually the year he got exposed and arrested

Katie Marinello: Mm,

Claire Fisher: for like massive amounts of, embezzlement. Uh, in the movie, Lafarge, uh, a minor character tells Bartholdi, oh, he's responsible for more plundering than anybody since the Visigoths.

Katie Marinello: yes.

Claire Fisher: arrested in July. Okay, so assume this is earlier, right?

Katie Marinello: Yes.

Claire Fisher: like June.

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: got pregnant after a St. Patrick's Day dance. So like, maybe it's, it's springtime, right?

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: Bartholdi is asking him for his support for the statue and Tweed says, oh, Liberty enlightening, the world is too long.

So it should be called just the Statue of Liberty, drop the blah, just Facebook. Right? Um, totally bonkers because when do you think they [00:42:00] started calling the statue? Statue of Liberty?

Katie Marinello: Uh, like after it was unveiled?

Claire Fisher: Exactly The 1890s.

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: So, um, it was certainly not nickname by Boss Tweet,

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: was dead before that name was coined.

Katie Marinello: Certainly gone. Yes. Not no longer on the scene.

Claire Fisher: it was called Liberty Enlightening the World or Sometimes Lady Liberty in the poem, it's called Mother of Exiles, but

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: not get the common name Statue of Liberty until the 1890s.

Katie Marinello: Yeah. Well, maybe they were afraid at this point that some of the audience didn't know what this movie was about because they would be forgiven for that.

Claire Fisher: hadn't told us. Yeah, this movie has been meandering a lot. Uh,

Katie Marinello: See, I, it's funny 'cause we agree on all of this, but I'm coming at it from a place of joy and you're coming at it from a place of rage.

Claire Fisher: okay, because then they do a time skip. They do a three year time skip, which

Katie Marinello: Yep.

Claire Fisher: sense because Bartholdi was not in America fundraising for three [00:43:00] years before going back to France.

Katie Marinello: No, I, I don't think that was the implication. The implication. He was coming back and forth.

Claire Fisher: Okay. Well, but anyway, he finally gets word that bed lows available. Island is available. Meanwhile, Moya and Jacques have had a second baby.

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: Um,

Katie Marinello: Which is weird because it's very well established that they're not talking at all. He won't engage with her intellectually, which is weird because he was before they were married, and suddenly he's like, not liking that she can't read, but like, it was his job to teach her, or, you know, he had said he would teach her.

And so then he's having this like weird flirtation with Emma Lazarus, where they run into each other a couple times.

Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm.

Katie Marinello: Um, I'm not gonna remember the order in which they run into each other, so I'll just summarize it. But every time she's like, you should go home to your wife. Or you should talk to your wife about these things.

And he's like, I can't. Yes, you can.

Claire Fisher: Yeah, like he's saying like, well, what do you think about the Brooklyn Bridge? The bridge over the [00:44:00] harbor, which

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: in 1870. And she's like, what does your wife think about the Brooklyn

Katie Marinello: Right.

Claire Fisher: yeah. Lots of people had opinions about the Brooklyn Bridge. It was like a major thing, right?

Katie Marinello: Right. It still is. I have opinions about the Brooklyn Bridge. You have opinions about the Brooklyn Bridge. Um, it's exhausting to walk across.

Claire Fisher: exhausting to walk across. They once marched a bunch of elephants across though, and that was

Katie Marinello: Those women who sell mangoes on the side of the Brooklyn Bridge are the true heroes of New York City.

Claire Fisher: They are. They are. Yeah.

Katie Marinello: See opinions

Claire Fisher: Okay. So back in France, it's 1876, they've missed the deadline for the centennial. They're

Katie Marinello: aas.

Claire Fisher: Like school children are asking people to give money and they

Katie Marinello: Okay. That was a cute scene. Oli and, um,

Claire Fisher: la.

Katie Marinello: are sitting in a cafe and the school children come in to ask for their donation and they give them money and it's, that was cute.

Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Um, sure.

Katie Marinello: Sure. She says.[00:45:00] 

Claire Fisher: Bartold, he also visits Kmar, which in real life he did, like, he kept his childhood home in Kmar,

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: a different country. So

Katie Marinello: Yeah, I saw that. Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: His neighbor says, oh, people who run countries are never in favor of liberty. You

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: popular around here. What they totally gloss over is that at this point France was a republic.

Katie Marinello: Oh,

Claire Fisher: Like they became a republic after Napoleon II lost the Franco pressured war

Katie Marinello: oh, yeah. You would think that being a Dema democracy, agitators, I mean, maybe he was more into the art than the agitating, but his sponsor certainly wasn't.

Claire Fisher: Yeah. So, um.

Katie Marinello: Yeah. You would think that that would've come up. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: So then he's in Colemar 'cause he's trying to get Jean

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: says, oh, you love your statue more than you love me. I'm not a statue. Go home to her. And he's, this is only important 'cause he says, I'm about to bring the hand and the torch to Philadelphia, which he actually did do.

He brought it to the Centennial Exposition in [00:46:00] Philadelphia in order to raise American enthusiasm for the idea of completing the statue.

Katie Marinello: Right.

Claire Fisher: She went with him in real life. His future wife went with him and they got married in Providence, Rhode Island in 1876.

Katie Marinello: that's adorable. Yeah, they really drag this out then because she says, all right, well then go do your thing and come back to me when you're ready. Which at this point they've been together how long?

Claire Fisher: Like eight years.

Katie Marinello: Eight years. Yeah, girl, move on. In my notes. I kept writing. Why won't he marry her?

Wait. So she is going to wait for him? Why doesn't he just marry her and take her to Philly with him? What the fuck?

Claire Fisher: Well he did in real life.

Katie Marinello: And then this is another time that, Jacques runs into Emma Lazarus. They're in another museum or library or something. He says, let me take you back into the real world again. What a douche.

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: And then, when she drops him off or whatever, he like grabs her arm again. She says, go home to your wife.

And I'm like, she has given you [00:47:00] zero indication that she's interested in you romantically, like nothing. And you were married. So what are you yearning for my dude

to breathe free? Well, you should have thought of that before Moya sniffed out the candle

Claire Fisher: So meanwhile Bartholdi is bringing the arm in the torch and when they're unloading it, it gets damaged and someone comes rushing into Seamus to shop saying, does anyone here know Ray Poe?

Katie Marinello: Oh my God.

Claire Fisher: Its

Katie Marinello: Okay. So like from, at what point did you realize this is where the movie was going? Like from the point where like LA Burton is talking about, about rape pro se, right?

Claire Fisher: from the very beginning because the guy kept saying he was a coppersmith and I was like, oh yes. In a movie about a copper statue.

Katie Marinello: Yes. So it takes, I didn't write down the timestamp, but it takes like an hour and a half for them to. Be in the same, like you said, they were in the same room with Boss Tweed, but now the, I was like, oh, they're [00:48:00] finally going to hire these people to be their coppersmith like dear Lord.

Claire Fisher: Yeah. This is where they have a get to work montage. They establish that Marchand is actually from Ale that was only six miles away from Colemar.

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: Bartholdi are from the same country, but different worlds. Um, everybody works all night to save liberty and

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: invites them all to come to the Centennial Exposition.

Katie Marinello: As my guest, you must come. And at, at the celebration, he offers Jacques a job

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: France.

Claire Fisher: to France. Go

Katie Marinello: I need someone who knows New York to help me finish the statue

Claire Fisher: Um,

Katie Marinello: and

Claire Fisher: But can I tell you about my least favorite scene?

Katie Marinello: Sure.

Claire Fisher: Absolutely. They're at the Philadelphia Exposition and a journalist is there to

Katie Marinello: You did mention this? Yes. Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: about how suffragettes say, like, how can you make Lady Liberty when, when the women are not free, and, , people worry that it's a pagan goddess and blah, blah, blah. And the journalist introduces himself, who is he? Katie.

Katie Marinello: Joseph [00:49:00] Pulitzer.

Claire Fisher: And he

Katie Marinello: Pulitzer.

What did you say your first name was? Joseph? Joseph. Joseph. Joseph Ative of the St. Louis Post. We need your help. We need everyone's help. You will write about it. I will please. 

Claire Fisher: Pulitzer.

Katie Marinello: Pulitzer. Okay. And it's Pulitzer,

Claire Fisher: Pulitzer mispronounced

Katie Marinello: his own last name. Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: That is okay. I know you couldn't always Google it, but you could have just called the Columbia School of Journalism and asked them how they pronounce the name of the prize.

Katie Marinello: right, eh, doesn't bother me.

Claire Fisher: Oh, it drove me nuts. Drove me

Katie Marinello: It doesn't bother me because this is not a biofilm, like I hate when they like misrepresent things during. A biopic, but I don't think anyone thought this was the real story of how the pistachio liberty got built. , Because it's not, it's mostly a,

Claire Fisher: of it?

Katie Marinello: it's, there's no point, Claire.

Claire Fisher: That's okay.

Katie Marinello: All right. So he offers [00:50:00] Jack this job in France.

To his credit, he does say he has to talk it over with his wife. And he says that, the salary would be really good. Um, two years. You'll learn more than you would learn in decades, whatever, whatever. Um, he goes back to France and he marries the, uh, Jean Jean, incomplete silence. Um,

Claire Fisher: but then refuses to let his mother move in with them.

Katie Marinello: right. So he stands up to his mother. Yay. And then we go back to New York and. Jacques is leaving for France, and I was like, take your wife to France, take your wife to France. Why is he not taking his wife to France?

Claire Fisher: Look, because she's gotta take care of the kids. Katie.

Katie Marinello: But the kids can't go to France.

Claire Fisher: I guess not,

Katie Marinello: There's no public, like, it's not like they're going to school, like they're still young.

And also I feel like it was much easier to just kind of go to France at the time.

Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm.

Katie Marinello: Um,

Claire Fisher: easy.

Katie Marinello: so I don't quite understand. And like, I think in the real world it would probably be a [00:51:00] monetary thing, but in this movie it's been well established that, Marshawn will just pay for whatever. So, um, anyway, he doesn't, she's waving to him with her, handkerchief

Claire Fisher: And then we find out they haven't raised the money for the pedestal yet.

Katie Marinello: yes, Pulitzer is incensed.

Claire Fisher: He says he's going to buy the New York world and something will be done immediately.

Katie Marinello: Immediately.

Claire Fisher: He did actually buy the New York World in 1883. So the timing here, they're a little early 'cause the title card said 1877, but

Katie Marinello: Okay.

Claire Fisher: They're compressing a bit because hey, they realize they only have an hour left to finish this stupid movie.

Katie Marinello: But he does print every name, right? Wasn't that him?

Claire Fisher: that's real. But that happened in 1885,

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: we're a little early for that.

Katie Marinello: Okay. And then this is where we see Emma Lazarus with the Russian immigrants. And she kind of, just like picks one randomly out of a crowd [00:52:00] and then on her way there picks up another, black worker and go to Seamus shop to see if he can give them a job.

And he's like, no, I don't have work for all the people that I have working here. And she. Says, is it, 'cause one of them is Jewish and he said No. And she said, is it because one of them is black? He's like, if you knew anything, you would know that that's not the case. And he shows her like a drawing of him and Robert Johnson and Jacques, and she's like, oh, I knew him.

is it because one of them is Jewish? Is that it? Was that it? No, no, no. I've got more people working here now than I know what to do with. Is it because one of them is black? If you had eyes in your head, you'd realize it isn't because he's black.

That's Jack Ash.

You know him. Yes,[00:53:00] 

Robert.

Robert, what is it, James? See if you can find something for those two lives to do.

Claire Fisher: So then Seamus has to hire the men, and it's later revealed that Robert Johnson has learned Yiddish from working alongside Jacques.

Katie Marinello: So he's able to teach.

Claire Fisher: the Russian

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: uh, workers.

Katie Marinello: And I do have to say, yeah, this is just the best language in the world. We've talked about this.

Claire Fisher: And, and it is true that a lot of black people living in New York learned Yiddish so that they could be Sha.

Katie Marinello: that makes sense. Yeah.

Claire Fisher: in fact, the first secretary of Defense in American history to be fluent in Yiddish was Colin Powell.

Katie Marinello: Oh, interesting.

Claire Fisher: he grew up in the South Bronx and he worked for, an orthodox couple.

He would like run their shop

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: for them.

Katie Marinello: Yeah. Do you wanna explain what the she is to our

Claire Fisher: Shavaya meaning, um, [00:54:00] the Gentile who does your chores for you on Saturday when

Katie Marinello: Yeah,

Claire Fisher: Jewish people don't,

Katie Marinello: things like turning on your oven,

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: pressing the elevator button, that kind of thing.

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: Um, okay. So we do see that Moya did go back to school, which was very exciting for me because she, when she was pregnant, had been talking about wanting to go back to school once the baby is born. Usually when you see that scene in a domestic drama of any kind in any century, it never happens.

So it was nice to see that she did. And then she's like crying to her Uncle Seamus about, how much she misses him. It's been too long. He's sending money, he's sending letters, but it's just not the same. And he gives her money to go to France. And again, why didn't they just do that in the first place?

Claire Fisher: Well, they do reconnect in France

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: them about taking their oldest kid to concerts and going to the new Metropolitan Museum, which had opened in 1870.

Katie Marinello: And I was so on edge the whole time. 'cause it's been set up that he's like fallen out of love with her. Right. So like the whole time that [00:55:00] she's, first of all, when she shows up at his workplace and then later when she's rambling about all these different things that she's doing with the kids to like get them to be more educated.

I was so worried that he was gonna like crush her spirit,

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: he doesn't, he just apologizes that everything's fine now.

Claire Fisher: Yeah. They make up, they kiss the makeup and meanwhile, the actual story of how they got the pedestal built is completely compressed and done out of order, but Okay. In real life there were two, se there were several rounds of fundraising attempted to get this pedestal built. Emma Lazarus wrote the new Colossus for one round of fundraising in 1883, and then Joseph Pulitzer published people's names on the front page of the New York world if they donated even just a penny in 1885.

Katie Marinello: Okay.

Claire Fisher: in real life happened two years apart, but they're shown as happening simultaneously.

Katie Marinello: the same time. Yeah.

Claire Fisher: Um,

Katie Marinello: she finally, recites the poem

Claire Fisher: right.

Katie Marinello: and,

Claire Fisher: In the very next scene, Pulitzer saying, pop the champagne. We did it.

Katie Marinello: right, but let me read my notes from this [00:56:00] time. I said, oh, it's actually a really good poem though. And then my next note is, is it possible I don't hate this movie? So we're at like two hours, two hours at this point. And I'm like, maybe I don't hate it that much.

So then they, yeah, so then pop the champagne. We did it. And they're getting ready to actually erect the statue. So, and she is,

Claire Fisher: New York

Katie Marinello: she is, yes. Everybody's back in New York, everybody's reunited.

Claire Fisher: bed Lows Island.

Katie Marinello: and Emma Lazarus is also there and she tells, Jacques that she's very ill and she, , doesn't know what's wrong.

So the hypothesis now is that it was Hodgkin's lymphoma and that

Claire Fisher: I, I did like their exchange for one reason. He says, oh, I, I read your poem, mother of Exiles. And

Katie Marinello: mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: that before I even saw her. And he says, Leonardo wasn't at the last supper either,

Katie Marinello: I had that written down as well. Yeah,

So it's becoming real at [00:57:00] last. What was it? You called her in your poem. Mother of exiles. Yeah, I wrote that before I even saw it, this drawing. Oh, Leonardo wasn't at the last supper either.

Claire Fisher: I thought it was sweet because one thing a lot of people only know that as the Statue of Liberty poem,

Katie Marinello: yeah, yeah.

Claire Fisher: it was written before they put the statue up.

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: And like one reason I like that poem is that it was actually even before they got the statue put up, it was already giving it an additional possible meaning. 'cause

Katie Marinello: Right.

Claire Fisher: to be Liberty

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: she said it's also Liberty welcoming

Katie Marinello: Welcoming. Mm-hmm. Right.

Claire Fisher: so by adding mother of access, so she says. When she says she's sick, she's leaving for Italy in hopes of getting Well, that's like it's at least she got to see this statue before she died,

Katie Marinello: Yeah. But [00:58:00] she didn't die for a full year

Claire Fisher: Yeah.

Katie Marinello: and she died in New York. In this movie, they show her dying in Italy.

Claire Fisher: right.

Katie Marinello: And I'm like, wouldn't it have been nice if they'd shown a scene of her coming back and seeing the statue, like as she sailed back to New York? 'cause presumably that did happen, at least in some form.

Claire Fisher: That would've been really cool. And

Katie Marinello: I thought it was weird that they showed her death at all. 'cause I think it would've been perfectly acceptable for her to say, I'm not feeling well. I'm going to Europe. We never see her again, but they do show us

Claire Fisher: part

Katie Marinello: Yet another, set piece where she's at the, um, convent and I thought that was weird, or Yeah, dying at the convent.

I thought that was weird. But anyway, so.

Claire Fisher: they're back. They're putting the torture hand on. And one of the, um, of the people that Emma Lazarus convinced Seamus to hire

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: and

Katie Marinello: Yes.

Claire Fisher: trying to rescue him.

Katie Marinello: And that kid also dies, but nobody seems to care about that. I mean, they mention it.[00:59:00] 

Claire Fisher: And then Bartholdi gives a touching eulogy about how she, she's a monument to you. The men who are free to work with their hands, their brains, their hearts, it's sweet. But again, totally fictional. That was not at

Katie Marinello: Right, right. So, as I mentioned at the beginning, I thought, okay, so. People did die a lot during construction projects. So I looked it up. And this is what, uh, you know, the little Google ai, summary at the top. No one died during the construction of the Statue of Liberty Fact. That is notable given the hazardous conditions workers faced during the project in both France and the United States.

But I did like his speech

Seamus Riley. Honored me by working on the Statue of Liberty, but I always wanted him to know that the statue honors men like him and men like you. It is a monument of liberty, but before it is anything. It is a monument to you. Men and women who work in freedom. [01:00:00] Men free to work with their brains and their hands.

And their hearts

in all the centuries of the world. No group of craftsmen has ever done anything to equal the hope of this Colossus. I dreamed her. She is my daughter of liberty, but you made a real, and now she belongs to Seamus and to Frankie Martin and to all of you. She's yours. And your children's. And your children's children.

Katie Marinello: And I did think it was very funny that they then did a flashback to the entire movie.

Claire Fisher: Yeah, so the grand unveiling,

October 28th, 1886. While it's being unveiled. There's flashbacks to everything that just happened. Just like for those of you just tuning in

Katie Marinello: I mean, I guess it makes sense if it was a babe for TV movie, [01:01:00] like maybe you were coming in in the final hour, but it was weird.

Claire Fisher: And then, Robert Johnson says, I wish Seamus was here. And, Jacques Marcan says he

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: because this is really a monument to him. Totally trying to pull some emotion out of a non-existent event when you're at a real world, very emotional

Katie Marinello: Right, right. So unnecessary and especially this late in the movie, when I felt like you've already established all your emotional beats. We're good. We've, we've gotten here. Um,

Claire Fisher: abruptly cuts to 1980s aerial footage of the refurbished statue and

Katie Marinello: I.

Claire Fisher: reading the poem and voiceover End of movie.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame conquering limbs. Astri from land to land. Here at our sea wash Sunset gate, she'll stand a mighty woman with a torch whose flame is the imprisoned lightning and her name, mother of exile from her beacon hand glows worldwide. Welcome [01:02:00] her mild eyes command. The air bridged harbor the twin cities frame.

Keep ancient lands. Your storied pump cry. She silent. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled mass. Is yearning to breathe. Breathe the wretched of your teaming shore. Send these, the homeless tempest tossed to me. I lift my lamb beside the golden door.

Katie Marinello: Okay. That was a beautiful, beautiful scene of her. Her reciting it again and at seeing the World Trade Center behind her always makes me emotional because about 18 months before nine 11, I took my class trip to Liberty Island and um, no, to Ellis Island, but we obviously took the Ferry Pass, Liberty Island, and I have that picture of the statuary with the.

World Trade Center behind it because my best friend at the Time's Father worked in the Towers. He's fine. [01:03:00] He'll outlive us all.

Claire Fisher: Yeah, it's a beautiful picture, but

Katie Marinello: yeah, so that was interesting. Um, and I do think so that was the end of the movie. Yay. We're done. Um, I did watch this on Labor Day, which was interesting

Claire Fisher: Uh

Katie Marinello: because there is.

Buried under all this unnecessary personal drama, uh, story about workers and workers' rights, and that that, eulogy that I guess we'll cut in parts of, at least, is about working men, right? And people, people who are free to work, so

Claire Fisher: it just seemed like they were muddling the message. Like what, what are they trying to say? Are they trying to say that like, education is

Katie Marinello: right.

Claire Fisher: free? Are they trying to say is work that ma is what makes us free? Men? Are they trying to say that the statue, I, I, I didn't understand what they were talking about and there's lots of different ways you can interpret the meaning of the Statue of

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: they seem to have just gone for

Katie Marinello: All of them.

Claire Fisher: of them. Right. [01:04:00] So here's the thing. I wanted to like this. I like period

Katie Marinello: Yeah. You love historical fiction? Yeah.

Claire Fisher: I like the Statue of Liberty. But this was just so ridiculously

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: It added fictional characters who weren't interesting. It misrepresented. people and like you could tell an interesting story about Frederick August Bartzi.

You could tell an interesting story about Emma Lazarus. You could tell an interesting story about Les S Grant or Joseph Pulitzer, or Boss Tweed

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: You could tell an interesting story about the statue. Like there, that is a story of how it got

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: they tried to go for like all of the above and none of the above.

Katie Marinello: also,

Claire Fisher: they wanted to include all these people but not tell any of their

Katie Marinello: right?

Claire Fisher: Right. Um, like we said, the yada yada at the f Frank oppression war. Right. So at the end of it, I was thinking I would rather watch a three hour story, a three hour story of just the Statue of Liberty and things that happened

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: Like the German sabotage [01:05:00] of 1916, the Puerto Rican takeover of 1977, the time you and I got stuck in line there behind an entire Boy Scout jamboree in

Katie Marinello: I can't believe we've gotten this far in the episode without mentioning our own visit to the statue. So I've only ever been once. I know you've been since, um, but

Claire Fisher: you've never gone

Katie Marinello: I've never gone back. No,

Claire Fisher: your only experience with her is being stuck in line behind the Boy Scout jamboree.

Katie Marinello: no, Claire. I lived in New York for seven years. I saw her all the time. I felt like every time I saw her, it was a beautiful bolt of lightning, you know, shining down upon us, showing freedom. I love her. I have not been back inside her. I think I'm okay with that. When you live in New York, do you ever go to New York Monuments?

It was amazing that I made it back to the Empire State Building, and that was only 'cause I was on a date.

Claire Fisher: I mean, I went to monuments when

Katie Marinello: Because that was your job to do.

Claire Fisher: Okay.

Katie Marinello: Claire used to take like her job. Her job was working with immigrants and showing them around the city. So yeah, of course.

Claire Fisher: is still working with immigrants. I just no longer have the [01:06:00] funding to take them on field

Katie Marinello: Right. You were in a field trip based organization at the time.

Claire Fisher: I was just bringing this up because I am someone who teaches the new colossus to immigrants regularly. I've done it three times

Katie Marinello: That's a beautiful poem.

Claire Fisher: It's a beautiful poem and it was a poem written about immigrants not really written to immigrants 'cause it was written for an

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: but they, they added it to the statue in 1903.

And like, that's become a major part of the statue's legacy. A disputed part of the statue's legacy. 'cause like people say, oh, well it didn't say to RS we P and you know, when they wanna support immigration and people who want, you know, are like, let's. Close the borders and let people drown in their ships is, you know, they always say, well that wasn't really the original name of the statue.

You know, this is like a, actually a major part of like American culture in a way that very few poems and actually very few works of public art have the legacy or the recognition

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: the Statue of Liberty and the new [01:07:00] Colossus have achieved

Katie Marinello: Right.

Claire Fisher: I think it's a beautiful statue. I think it's a beautiful poem.

I think there's a really interesting moral, a really interesting lesson. And I teach it to my students. And I say you have to understand she wrote this before she had seen the statue, but this is what she was hoping the statue would come to mean to you, to you my immigrant students who are currently living through a world where people are being kidnapped off the street for being immigrants.

Right. Um, and it's hard to teach the new Colossus. It has very dated

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: It has weird references to ancient Greek art. I have to pause and explain what the Colossus of Roads was every time we start the

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: but I go through it because of how much I love the Statue of Liberty, and I love that

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: and I hated this

Katie Marinello: Yeah, it's true. It was prime for you to be a fan.

Claire Fisher: I should be so impressed and I'm

Katie Marinello: Yeah, I understand. I think I was. I don't, I don't even know what to say. Like I can't [01:08:00] name a reason I liked it. I just think that I found it charming. O overall. But, I totally understand why it disappointed you, especially with your level of connection to the Statue of Liberty. We kind of glossed over this, so the one time that I have been there, the one time I've actually gone up to the Crown, Claire and I were together with our mother.

There were approximately 3 million boy scouts there for their annual jamboree.

Claire Fisher: they were having an actual jamboree,

Katie Marinello: So I understand that. So, and I don't do well with it. I didn't do well with heights when I was little. I'm much better now. And so for those of you who haven't done this, which is most people, the pedestal is like normal stairs, right?

When you get to the actual statue, the stairs are very tiny and very windy. 'cause they have to go up. Through her. And when you're doing that at approximately one step every 15 minutes, you have like a lot of time to think about how high you are.

Claire Fisher: You were so

Katie Marinello: I was petrified,

Claire Fisher: had to[01:09:00] 

Katie Marinello: I was crying. There's no way to go back. I don't know what it's like normally.

And I know now they have like time tickets and stuff, so they don't have that problem. This was pre nine 11, but,

once you're, once you were in, there was no way to go out at that point. So I had to keep going. And it was rough.

Claire Fisher: staircase up and one

Katie Marinello: Yeah, it was really, it was really tough. But yeah, I, you know, I did it. No, we can say we've done it. Um,

Claire Fisher: But the way you reacted to that is the reason we didn't go to windows on the world

Katie Marinello: are you, are you blaming me for nine 11?

Claire Fisher: No, but mom, mom wanted to take us to the top of the tallest building, but because we had freaked out the Statue of Liberty, she didn't,

Katie Marinello: That's not why, that's not why we ran outta time we were gonna go the next summer. It's absolutely not. Why you don't, you didn't have to climb to the, the windows on the world

Claire Fisher: Yeah. But we were also scared at the Empire State Building. To be fair,

Katie Marinello: let's not re-litigate. Um, it was,

Claire Fisher: you go now, if you wanna go now, 'cause we don't want [01:10:00] to discourage

Katie Marinello: yeah,

Claire Fisher: go. They definitely no longer allow entire Boy Scout jamborees to go

Katie Marinello: to just show up. Yeah. You have to buy tickets ahead of time, which you learned.

Claire Fisher: I tried to go, the first time I tried to go back, it was like 2010 tried to, or 2011 I guess. 'cause they, it was closed a long

Katie Marinello: It was, it was closed a long time after nine 11. Yeah.

Claire Fisher: I tried to go up and like just buy a ticket and they were like, no, no, no. To go to, you can buy a ticket to go to the island, but to go to the Crown, you have to buy three months in advance.

So then, okay, so five years later I was like, okay, fine, I'll do that. I'll jump through the hoop. Now if you're gonna go, you go through the same level of security as you do at an airport,

Katie Marinello: Hmm.

Claire Fisher: they make you put all of your bags and all of your, belts and everything in a, a locker that you like seal with your fingerprint.

It's not even key lockers, it's fingerprint lockers. And then when it's your turn, you get to go up the tiny, tiny spiral staircase, which is still tiny and still steep and still kind of hard to climb. , When you get to the top, you get like five minutes because there's another group coming up after you, right.

Katie Marinello: [01:11:00] How much do you think it costs?

Claire Fisher: Oh, I, I don't know. I haven't been back in like 10 years. Um,

Katie Marinello: Yeah, I'm, I'm actually surprised 'cause I'm pretty sure. The last time I went to the Emperor State Building, it was like really expensive.

Claire Fisher: the Empire State Building is way overpriced. Yeah,

Katie Marinello: So I'm, I'm surprised. But, yeah, so pedestal axis. So the base price is, uh, 25 50 pedestal axis. So I guess that's just a go. I don't know.

Claire Fisher: Yeah,

Katie Marinello: Pedestal axis adds 30 cents.

Crown access adds 30 cents. Okay.

Claire Fisher: and three months of wait,

Katie Marinello: Yeah. And then, it's free to take a Ranger tour. It's free to take an audio tour. And it says, you can add on an Ellis Hard Hat tour, which actually I would like to do for $55.

Claire Fisher: We should do that. Okay. This has been New York City tourism with Katie and Claire. Uh

Katie Marinello: And, oh wait, I do have to say one more thing.

Claire Fisher: but

Katie Marinello: of Liberty is in New Jersey.

Claire Fisher: ah,

Katie Marinello: I.[01:12:00] 

Claire Fisher: that I fool a lot of my Russian students with, when I, I say, when I'm teaching online, I'm like, Hey, what state is Ms.

Claire from? Here's a hint. It's the same one as Lady Liberty. They always guess New York, but technically it's on the western side of the Hudson River.

Katie Marinello: It's in New Jersey, so they, yeah. So they made, there was a big lawsuit over this, right. Or big fight over this. And ultimately, Liberty Island belongs to New Jersey, but the statue belongs to New York.

Claire Fisher: Well, it doesn't come up a lot because there, there, it's a federal

Katie Marinello: Right. So it's not like they're paying taxes.

Claire Fisher: no, the, the, the sales taxes in the gift shop go to New

Katie Marinello: Okay.

Claire Fisher: That's why there was a lawsuit was who gets the sales

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So support New Jersey. Go to the Liberty Statue of Liberty.

Claire Fisher: And buy the gingerbread that's shaped like her head. Yeah. Battery.

Katie Marinello: Yes, that was good.

Claire Fisher: That it's, it, it has the lovely frosting on it. It's green, it's delicious. Um, okay. Uh, can I tell you one last anachronistic, um, of trivia here? [01:13:00] At one point they show a 50 star American flag.

Katie Marinello: Oh, that is bad.

Claire Fisher: America did not have 50 states until 1959.

Katie Marinello: Yeah, that's a full a hundred years later.

Claire Fisher: Yeah. And they actually, the 50 star flag did not debut until July 4th, 1960. So,

Katie Marinello: Yep. Yeah. That's bad. That's pretty bad.

Claire Fisher: So some of the things that actually happened I thought were interesting, but like, they got

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: Like how Napoleon III was elected on a promise to make France great again,

Katie Marinello: Yeah.

Claire Fisher: that ended totally terribly. Pulitzer really did raise money to build the pedestal by printing donors names On page one of his newspaper, Bartholdi really did have to fight in the Franco Prussian war and then watch his hometown get handed over to the people he'd just lost to.

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: Um, Lazarus did write a poem about a statue she'd never seen and then died just a year after

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: again.

I think you could make an interesting movie.

Katie Marinello: I'm sure somebody has, in fact.

Claire Fisher: [01:14:00] Yeah. This ain't it.

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: But you absolutely could tell an interesting story

Katie Marinello: All right. But what did we think of Emma Lazarus in this movie?

Claire Fisher: well, she's barely in it.

Katie Marinello: She is, and it's not her movie, and I get that.

Claire Fisher: She's mainly there to get mansplained too,

Katie Marinello: I don't love the mansplaining, so I'm trying to take the mansplaining out of it because I do think she. Has an arc given the limited screen time. I mean, it's more screen time than the lady who shoots at the Blues Brothers.

So I guess,

Claire Fisher: That's true.

Katie Marinello: um, yeah, I, I mean I'd probably go three or four Hu Slayers. How about you?

Claire Fisher: Three at the most.

Katie Marinello: All right, I'll go three only because we don't get to see like what actually motivates her to go work with the immigrants and stuff, but she does,

Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm.

Katie Marinello: and we know that in real life she was an activist. She never married. She was a single woman in the [01:15:00] 18 hundreds. So good for her.

Claire Fisher: What they used to call a bachelor girl.

Katie Marinello: Bachelor girl. I like that better than Old Maid.

So,

And she had her own career.

Claire Fisher: she did have a career and she was friends with while Faldo Emerson, that gets one line in this, uh, in this,

Katie Marinello: Well, it's not her story.

Claire Fisher: No, it's not,

Katie Marinello: Also they mentioned, wait, I did like the line. Like, uh, he goes to live in the woods. What happens? Nothing happens and everything happens,

Claire Fisher: um,

Katie Marinello: and nobody mentions that his mother came and cleaned for him every day. What?

Claire Fisher: When I was at Walden Pond, someone asked Brian. One of the rangers said to Brian, so have you read on on w Walden Pond? And he was like, what's that? I was like, oh yeah, it's gone hard out of

Katie Marinello: Mm.

Claire Fisher: Right? But it was really well received

Katie Marinello: was apparently Revolution. I've never read it, so

Claire Fisher: No, I [01:16:00] don't think I was ever even assigned to read it.

So it's not like I Skyped

Katie Marinello: no,

Claire Fisher: didn't

Katie Marinello: I'm surprised you haven't read it because of who you are as a person. But

Claire Fisher: I read a lot of things, but Transcendentalism is not really my

Katie Marinello: speaking of reading

Claire Fisher: What are we doing next, Katie?

Katie Marinello: postcards from the edge, I'm so excited to discuss this with you. I know you read it. I haven't started my reread yet, but it's a pretty short book. And it's waiting for me at the library. I just haven't been allowed to go anywhere due to COVID.

Claire Fisher: Well, this one definitely is Carrie's

Katie Marinello: yes.

Claire Fisher: l has no screen

Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm.

Claire Fisher: one, she wrote

Katie Marinello: She wrote it and it's autobiographical, if not an autobiography, and I'm really excited to discuss it with you. So. That will be our next episode, but until then,

Claire Fisher: Just remember if my life weren't funny, it would just be

Katie Marinello: and that's unacceptable.

Claire Fisher: All

Katie Marinello: Live long and prosper. 

Thanks for listening to another episode of Carried Far, far Away. This podcast is hosted, produced, edited [01:17:00] re-edited obsessed over and loved by Katie Marinello and Claire Fisher. You can follow the show on Facebook and Instagram at carriedawaypod You can email us at awaycarriedpod@gmail.com You can follow Claire deadfictionalgirlfriends and Katie katiedaway We are proud to be part of the 12 24 network. You can join fans and creators from the Network on Discord by clicking the link in the show notes. All clips used in this podcast are done so under the protection of fair use. Have a wonderful week, and may the force be with you.

​

Katie Marinello: And now our space, grandma wisdom of the week.

so. Eddie consoles, Elizabeth with his penis. Elizabeth takes a movie in Rome, big budget film, Cleopatra.

She meets her co-star, Richard Burton. Well. Goodbye, Eddie. Hello, Richard. The two of them, they hit it off like gangbusters, you know, and they met and they married and they had a [01:18:00] wild tempestuous relationship with violet eyes and Welsh accents and drinking and dancing and lust and joy and fun. But it was a tempestuous relationship.

So after a while, the storm clouds came and what happened? Cheating what? Storm clouds are a negative. Okay. What's your name? What? Nicole. Okay, Nicole. So

as Nicole said, they did get worse fucked. 

They had good memories of each other. So Nicole, what'd they do? Then? They got married. They remarried. Exactly. Alright, now keep that in mind 'cause it might come up again. 

​

Now, the trick to making a truly perfect cup of tea is to coax [01:19:00] out the tea's natural essence and subtle flavors by ever so gently vocalizing your desire.

You wanna make the tea feel comfortable at this point, so, um, you know, help, help the tea, let its hair down, let it relax, let it steep in your passion.

That's it darling. Take your time.

There's no rush.

It's just you and me. Here together you are perfect. You are radiant. Must have you. And that's it.