Morgan Teruel: Welcome to the Sandals Church podcast. My name is Morgan Terrell, and I'm the online campus manager here at Sandals Church. We're so happy to have you join us today as we listen to this message with pastor Matt teaching from our home series. If you've enjoyed our content, consider leaving us a rating to help this podcast reach more people. But for now, let's get into the message.
Pastor Matt Brown: Welcome to the Sentil's Church. We are in this series called home. And today we're gonna talk about something super special. Are you ready? You've all experienced it.
Conflict. Amen? Anybody had conflict? How many of you have had conflict? Don't point.
How many of you have had conflict with someone you love? Raise your hands. Now look around. If your hand is not up, you know no one, love no one, have never been with anyone. K?
I've spent the day with myself and had conflict with me. I've been upset with myself. But today, we're gonna talk about conflict because because here's the thing is, many of us throw away relationships way too soon. We give up. We say, oh my gosh, this is hard.
This is difficult. I can't imagine. Let me tell you something, any relationship worth having is going to be difficult. Point number 1, don't let fatigue keep you from the person you love. A lot of us just give up.
We give up on our jobs. Oh, my gosh. My boss hates me. Maybe he's trying to help you. Oh, my gosh.
My mom, she's always criticizing. Maybe she just wants you to grow up. Amen, moms? K. Oh my gosh.
My wife, she's always nagging. Maybe she speaks the truth. K? Hard conversations are hard. We don't call them easy conversations.
We don't call them fun conversations. We call them hard conversations. But do you know what I've learned about hard conversations? They often start when we are stressed and tired. Like you're not on the beach sipping a margarita, listening to your favorite music, and your wife's like, we need to talk.
That's not when it happens. It happens when you haven't slept, you've lost your job, you're paying bills, right, or you're stuck in traffic with each other. You're both in a cell. Right? I tell my wife, we're not soulmates, we're cellmates stuck in the car.
Anybody have kids? Raise your hand. You have kids. K. When they become teenagers, they they're not gonna talk at 7 AM.
No. No. No. No. No.
That's that's when you're up. They wanna talk at midnight. Mom, dad, I've been thinking. I wanna drop out of school and join the circus. Right?
You know, it's just And it's 12:02 and you're like, maybe I'll let you go to the circus. But we have to be ready. We have to be ready to have these hard conversations because they're not always when we want them. Jesus, if you're not a Christian, listen to me. Not only is he God Almighty, not only is he Lord of the universe, listen to me, he is a master of relationships.
Amen. You can learn a lot from Jesus in terms of relationships. He is the relational God. He came for a relationship with you, and he can help your relationships with others. So let's start in John chapter 4 verse 6, one of my favorite stories.
I probably preach this story more than any story in my career as a pastor. And every time I look at this I learn something new. So let's start in John chapter 4 verse 6. Jesus, tired from the long walk. This whole conflict starts when he's tired.
Starts right, you just got home, you just commuted, you were stuck on the 91 freeway. And if you don't know what the 91 freeway is, the Lord loves you. That's why. That's why you moved to California for the traffic. Came in?
Traffic. So he's tired. Too many times, we don't have the conversation we need to have because we're tired. We had, our niece living with us years ago and and we had a fun relationship, let's call it that, and I said we need to talk and she told me this. She was 17.
She said I don't feel like having this conversation right now. I was like you think I feel like having this conversation right now? But I'm in here because your aunt's gonna kill me if I don't have this conversation. So let's suffer together. So Jesus is tired from a long walk.
Listen to this. He sat wearily beside the well. Listen to me. If you're exhausted in your marriage, don't run away. This may be the time to sink in and just just really kinda suck it up and work it out.
So many people just throw away relationships way too soon. Do you know how many people I've seen in my church that have come to me and say, pastor, I wish I didn't get divorced? Because you know what's hard? Harder than marriage? Being divorced and figuring it out.
It's hard. It's difficult. It's challenging. And we throw away relationships. We cut off friendships.
Man, I've had people that I've loved at this church. We had one disagreement. Boom. They're gone. It is so tough.
So Jesus sat tired, wearily but beside the well. By the way, it's noontime. It's hot. K? Riverside hot.
You know what I'm talking about? I mean, people at Riverside who don't believe in Jesus, we're gonna go to hell. It's not that bad. That's what we're gonna tell everybody. It's not it's not that bad.
You know? It is so hot here right now. It's awful. So Jesus is chilling in Riverside. Right?
And he's super hot. He's super tired. He's exhausted. Soon, a Samaritan woman came to draw water. You see, in the ancient world, your entire life revolved around water.
Without it, you died. You can go without food for a while, you can't go without water in the Middle East for a day. You could die in a day if you don't have water.
Morgan Teruel: Thank you so much for joining us today. If this message has served you in any way, I wanna invite you to give today to the work that we are doing here at Sandals Church. You can do that by going to give dotsc@anytime. But for right now, let's get back into the message with pastor Matt.
Pastor Matt Brown: We've had that in SoCal. Families have gone out on a day hike on a day hike and they run out of water and they die on a trail on a day hike. The ancient world recognized this, you could never be too far away from water. And Jesus said to her, please give me a drink. He was alone at the time because his disciples had gone into the village to buy some food.
I want you to know, Jesus didn't just send the disciples to go get some food, he sent the disciples to go get some food so he could have a conversation. Can I just say this? Don't don't air your dirty laundry in public. Have it in private. So many of us, we fight in public.
We fight in front of our kids. We fight in front of our friends. Look, go have that conversation. We were out some friends and they were just nitpicking each other. You ever had those friends?
And they're just so grumpy, you don't wanna be with them ever again, but your wife makes you go. And, you know, it's just like, look. Go have your fight alone. This is this is this is my fun time and you're ruining my fun time. So Jesus says, hey, guys.
Go away. I gotta talk to somebody. Handle your business in private. Talk about it in private so you're not embarrassing the person you're confronting. But some of us are like, no, pastor.
I'm too tired. And do you know why fights get out of control? Because we don't deal with them when they're little fights, we wait till they're big fights. Ephesians 426 says this, don't sin by letting anger control you. It's okay to be angry, but don't let the sun go down while you're so angry because here's what happens.
You go to bed and you think, I just need some rest. No. You just need to get this done. You just need to deal with this. And when you give anger permission to sleep the night with you, it gives the devil a foothold in your life.
You ever notice fights get so out of control? It's just a little issue and it explodes. You wanna know where that is? You're not fighting about one thing, you're fighting about 20 things that you've been saving for later. And it's super fun and it just blows up.
Okay. Now let me say this. If things are getting out of control, if things are getting scary, it's okay to take a break. I don't want you to say, pastor said we gotta do this all night long, and then you're both in prison. Okay?
That's not what I'm saying. Don't call me for bail money. What I'm saying is, as long as it's healthy, have it out. When it becomes unhealthy or scary, stop. Take a break.
Take a break. Guys, listen to me. Don't ever put hands on your wife, ever. Ever. K?
If my wife hits me, it's gonna irritate me. If I hit her, it can hurt her. I told this to a man in our church who put hands on his wife. I said, you know what you did wrong? You put it in your hands.
You should have put it in God's hands. And he hurt his wife. He hurt his wife and now he's paying the consequences. So the first thing is, don't let fatigue get in the way. It it never happens when we're refreshed, when we're happy, we're on vacation.
Right? It's always when we're putting the kids in the car, your mother in law's coming over, you're late for church, you know what I'm saying? It's always in those moments when you feel stressed for time. Bam. Pay attention.
Next, be aware of the relational barriers that might be keeping you from each other, from connecting with each other. Some of you are just like, well, I married the worst person in the world. Okay. Okay. Let's hold on.
There's issues that separate us. All kinds of issues. The woman was surprised, John 49, for Jews refused to have anything to do with Samaritans. Did you know America didn't invent racism? Sin invented racism.
We got issues. They had issues back then. All this stuff in the Middle East right now, you know what it is? It's racist stuff. That's what it is.
We gotta call it what it is. She said to Jesus, you're a Jew and I'm a Samaritan woman. Why are you asking me for a drink? Listen to me. All relationships, dating people.
All relationships, we went out for a week and we have everything in common. All relationships have barriers. Don't you hate people who've been dating like 3 times? We we love all the same things. Air, walks on the beach, vacations, and eating out.
Wow. You are soulmates. Every single relationship has barriers. So let's just talk about some of them. These aren't all of them.
Let's talk about race. K. Most of the couples in our church that are getting married are interracial. That's a beautiful thing. It's also a barrier.
It's also a barrier. Families are different. Black families are different from white families, are different from Hispanic families, are different from Middle Eastern families. Right? K?
It just means that there's an added barrier. It doesn't mean you can't fall in love. It doesn't mean that you can't get married, but you do need to pay attention. See, listen to this. She says, you're a Jew.
I'm a Samaritan. You need to pay attention to that when you're fighting because there may be cultural differences that you're not paying attention to. Then there's gender issues. Any guys in here marry a woman? I've been married to the same woman as far as I know.
We watched this movie a couple years ago where this woman's married to a guy who is an identical twin and she's married to both of them and they're just weird. And I just asked my wife. I was like, do you have a twin? Like I was like, what's what's going on here? My wife for 28 years has surprised me every day.
And do you know why that is? I don't think like her. I I don't. Ladies, you wanna know what the number one problem is in your relationship to a man? Listen to me.
You know what women think? Women think men are just a hairier version of women with more issues. That's it. That's it. Guys, we know you are nothing like us.
That's why we like you. We've seen the dudes. They're gross. We like you. But we are so different.
My wife and I process everything on earth different. My wife is constantly afraid of being kidnapped and raped. And then every night when we watch TV, she wants to watch a show where women are kidnapped and raped. Maybe this is why you can't sleep. Oh my gosh.
Right? But guys are the same way. She's like, why do you watch sports? Why are you so involved? None of these guys like you.
They don't know you. They're not gonna hang with you. We got race. We got gender. Oh, religion.
You're a Samaritan and you're a Jew Doesn't just have race, gender, it also has religious connotations. And some of you think this doesn't matter. Oh, we're just getting lost. Let me tell you something. I grew up in a home where we gave 10% of our income to the local church.
I never thought about it. I never imagined growing up and not tithing. Some of you don't even know what tithing is. Amen? K.
My wife did not grow up in a home where tithing was ever mentioned or even brought up. Okay. Spending 10% of your income on something is something you need to talk about before you get married, and we didn't. And it's especially difficult when you don't have a lot to tithe. You know what I'm saying?
We didn't have a lot of a lot of money to tithe. And it caused all kinds of fights, all kinds of issues. It's a big issue. You gotta talk about your religion. You gotta talk about your faith because you think it doesn't matter and then you're married sitting in church by yourself and it hurts.
I see it over and over again. Next, age. Anybody have kids? If you have a child they're a lot younger than you. Man, it's a different time.
It's a different world. Our youth group interviewed me and just asked me like words, do you know what riz means? And I'm like, no. You know, they're like use it in a sentence. I'm like, I can't?
Like, they're using a whole language. Like, they speak English, I speak Linguish. I don't understand what they're saying. Listen to me. A lot of you parents, you've forgotten what it's like to be young.
You need to go back and ask yourself, okay, what was it like when I was this age? Because age is different. If you get married and there's there's there's a big age gap difference, there's three and a half years difference between Tammy and I. When we first got married, she always felt like I was talking down to her because I was so much older and wiser at 24. I know.
Right? I have been thinking. But she felt that way. And it was a huge gap because I was actually the age of her older sister. See, age creates an issue.
Now let's talk about the big elephant in the room. Okay? We're not gonna talk about all of them but here's the big one, wounding. You've all had people that you loved, that you trusted, that hurt you. That is in the relationships that matter.
My wife grew up with an alcoholic father and she's a survivor of sexual abuse. It doesn't make me better, it means her life was harder. And I've got to pay attention to that as her husband, as her friend. I gotta pay attention to that. Listen to me biblically.
Galatians 6:2. Carry each other's burdens. Do you know what a burden is? It's something you can't carry yourself. And in this way, you will fulfill the law of Christ.
And, oh, by the way, my wife's dad died when she was 27. I'm 53 and I still have my dad. My wife has had a lot of loss, a lot of heartache, a lot of hurt. And then her husband picked this stupid job called pastor, where you care for people that cut you. I love you.
You wanna be a pastor? Just go practice knife fighting in an alley. K? And don't bring a knife. Just be like, come on.
Bring it in. That's pastoring. Okay? Next, create a space of grace for people to be honest. Create a space of grace.
Some of you who are fighting, here's what you need to say. Let's go to the well. Let's go to the well with Jesus and let's talk about stuff that's real. Here's the truth. Some of you are married to your best friend, but you can't be honest because you're afraid of what they'll do and how they'll judge you.
Jesus says to this woman, she says, you're a Jew, I'm a Samaritan, you're a man, I'm a woman, we shouldn't be having this real conversation right now. And Jesus replied, if you only knew the gift that God has for you and who you are speaking to, you would ask me and I would give you living water. Jesus is saying, I love you. And this is a safe place. This is a safe place.
And even in the context of marriage, we're afraid to be real. We're afraid. Ephesians 42, always be humble. When? Always.
I'm gonna pray about that. No. Always stop praying, start being humble. Always be humble, wait for it, and gentle and gentle and be patient with each other. We got parents in our church losing their minds that they're 3 year old.
They're 3. Now if they're doing that at 33, let's talk. They're 3. They haven't had an act today. They need to fart.
They haven't pooped. Make an allowance for each other's faults. Why? Because of your love. When's the last time you just gave a redo and you said, you know what?
I'm gonna throw grace on this. Last week, I came back from vacation and I found out a past church member is very upset with me and they're putting stuff on social media. As far as I knew, I thought we were okay, but this person doesn't think we're okay and they've just been torturing me on social media. And you say, oh my gosh, why are you calling a person out? Because that could be like a 1,000 people.
I'm just telling you. But this this person in particular was close to me and I was really really upset. And so I I went and hung out with one of our pastors and I just said, hey, can I share some stuff? And I shared with my pastor friend here at our church. And I just said, hey man, here's what's going on.
Here's what's going on. And I just told him, I said, here's what they're doing, here's what they're saying about me. And here's what the pastor in our church said. He said, do you know why I like following you as my pastor? And I went, oh great, here it comes.
He said, because you follow Jesus no matter what and I know you're gonna forgive that person and you're gonna give them grace. And I was just like Because here's what the pastor said to me. Jesus forgave his enemies. Jesus forgave people that did evil against him. And he said it's only those kinds of Christians that are gonna change the world.
That's it. And he said if we can't do that, what are we doing? And I so wish I had talked to another pastor. Amen. I said what?
I got I got plenty. Why did I pick you? But let me ask you this. When you're fired up, when you're all upset, when you're all angry, have you ever been wrong in your life? And if you haven't, you are so wrong.
Have you ever been wrong? When you're busting your kids, I can't believe they lied. Have you ever lied? And oh, by the way, maybe the reason they're lying is they're afraid of you. Have you ever thought about that?
I just I just can't believe they lied. And then you're in your kid's face, Tell mama the truth. Tell mama the truth. And if they look at me, I'm gonna be over there in the corner. Tell pastor the truth.
I will not eat you. Mama might. Listen to me, moms. Go deal with your issues for all the people in your past that lied to you and quit taking it on your kid or your husband who loves you. Have you ever have you ever have you ever been lied to?
You ever been wrong? And here's what we say to Christians. Well, pastor, I feel like you're making an excuse. Listen, as Christians, we don't excuse sin. We invite grace.
We invite grace. We invite grace. Colossians 46. Listen to this. This is the word of God.
This isn't like Matt Brown thinks. This is the word of God. Let your conversation always be full of grace. And some of you are full of something else. Amen?
Pray about it. But if you're struggling with your kids lying to you, ask yourself, parents, what am I doing that's preventing my kid from telling the truth? When I was a kid, I was a teenager, a couple friends and I, we went and bought a 24 pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon beer and if you don't know what that is it's because you're rich. It's it's it's like 13¢ a beer can. And so we bought we bought 24 beers.
And you know, when you're a kid you don't actually like beer, you just want to look cool. So we drank I think 1 and a half between the 4 of us. So we had like 23 beers left. And I'm like, I'm not throwing this away. We spent $4 on this.
You know? And so I got home late at night on on a Friday night and I stored it in the ivy in our front yard. I threw it in the ivy and I said, I'll deal with that later. I forgot on Saturday morning because my dad does yard work. So I remember I I I heard the lawnmower going and my my conscience was screaming get up, get up, get up.
And then I hear the lawnmower shut off and I hear my dad come in the house. I hear him walking down the hall. I hear him come in my room. He says son get up. Come with me.
And he takes me out to the front yard and he points to the beer and he says, do you know whose this is? What do you think I said? No, dad. I have no idea. He said, you're telling me you don't know who stuffed beer in my ivy.
Have no idea, dad. Have no idea. He said, well, whose beer could it be? I said, maybe the neighbors. My dad said, pick up the beer.
I picked up 23 cans of beer, put them in my arm. We're walking to the neighbor's house. True story. I'm gonna die. I know I'm gonna die.
It's all over. My dad's generation died in Vietnam. I'm dying in ivy. Right? I'm like, I'm gonna die in ivy.
We walk over to the we walk over to the front door. My dad says, are you sure this is the neighbor's beer? I was like, I don't know whose beer it is, dad. Like, I'm so committed to this lie. My dad knocks on the door.
A Middle Eastern man in his bathrobe and boxers and and slippers opens the door eating cereal. My dad says, I'm Steve Brown, your next door neighbor. My son says, you left your beer in the ivy. Is that true? The Middle Eastern man sets his bowl of cereal down, says yes, Takes the beer and closes the door.
And that's when I knew there's a God. There's a God and he loves me. Now, here's the truth. Did my dad know whose spirit was? Yes.
Did I know whose spirit was? Why could why couldn't I be honest? I was afraid. I was afraid of the truth. When people lie to you, listen to me, it doesn't mean they're all bad.
Praise God, parents. It means they know they know what's good. So here's what I wanna encourage you if you're a parent and your kid is lying to you. And if you think your kid never lies to you it just means they're really good at it. Just tell your kid this, I don't think you're telling the truth.
Don't say, I know you're lying. Just say this, I don't think you're telling the truth. And then say this, I would have a hard time telling the truth in this situation as well. I want you to know nothing will ever keep me from loving you, but lying will keep me from trusting you. And I wanna be able to trust you.
So take some time and come back here when you're ready to be honest. Listen to this. Listen to this and tell them, I'm not gonna be any more upset when you tell me the truth than I am right now. See, what your kid is afraid of is if they admit not only to doing it and lying about it, that it's piling on. Encourage your kids to be honest.
Now tell them. Say, hey, there's gonna be a consequence, but it's not gonna be any worse for you being honest. Don't tell them. And if I find out you're lying, you're not on restriction for 1 week, you're on restriction for life. Say come back and tell me the truth.
Come back and tell me the truth. I had to have a hard conversation with my son this year and here's what I told him. I said, son I've thought a lot about what it was like when I was 21. Now here's the truth, son. I said it's been a long time since I was 21.
So my memory, it's not exactly accurate. But I want you to know that the most important thing in this hard conversation, right, and that's the moment he pooped his pants, is that you know I love you, but I wanna be able to trust you. And I said at the end of this, I'm gonna ask you how I did. And we got to the conversation and it was a hard conversation. And I asked him at the end.
I said, how was it? Listen to me, parents. This is what he said. He said, dad, I think it's the best conversation we've ever had. Now not all conversations go that way.
Right? They don't all go great. Expect negative pushback. Expect it. Some of you guys, you confront somebody and they get upset, you're like, oh, oh, my gosh.
How many of you like being corrected or challenged? Like, you just love it. Correct me again, honey. Tell me again how I am false. Tell me again how I have blown it once again.
I want to be a better man. Nobody thinks that. Nobody. Nobody. Couple years ago, we were working out at the gym.
My wife was and I are working out, and some woman from our church comes up and corrects the way my wife is doing the exercise. She still talks about it to this day. Do you remember that time we were in the gym? That woman. That woman.
It happens, right? None of us likes it. Couple years ago, I I was driving in a neighborhood I didn't know and I just blew through a, a red light. Blew through it. We were looking around trying And I mean I went through it at full speed.
Anybody ever done that? Just me? Blew through a red light and there was a CHP officer right there waiting for me. He had an appointment with pastor Matt. And I just blew right through it.
CHP right there. And and I just I just pulled over. I didn't even wait for the lights. I didn't even He didn't even start up his lights. Like he's sitting there, you know, on his phone, eating ramen, whatever he's doing at the middle of the night.
And I just pull over and he I I I watch him. And he's like He goes past me because he thinks he's gonna pursue me. And he has to back up. And he looks at me and I've got my license and registration, and my hand's out the window, and I'm like, you got me. And my wife is cracking up.
My kids are like, you're going to jail, dad. Everybody's laughing. And the cop comes up, and he's like, he's just like, he doesn't know what to do because everybody pushes back on cops, even if you know you did it. He's just like, he's like, I have never experienced this before. I was like, what am I gonna say?
I'm I'm a pastor. I can't lie in front of my wife and my kids. They all saw me watch, you know, run through the red light. My kids were saying, dad, dad. I'm like, don't bother me.
I'm driving. Right to the red light. He let me out. He's like, man, I've never seen this in my life. He's like, have a good day, sir.
Yeah. No. I'm not I'm not promising that'll happen to you. Expect pushback, but sir, you don't have a rope or a bucket. She said, oh, it gets you don't like it when your kids talk back?
Listen to this. And the well is very deep. And where would I get this living water? And besides, here's the nasty talk. Do you think you're greater than our ancestor Jacob?
Mhmm. Right? Who do you think you are? Jesus? If I was the Lord in the conversation, you know, father, I was I was being so kind.
And you know, you both and I, we both know I can't deal with that. Listen to me moms, dads, if the Lord Jesus can deal with a little talk back maybe you can. Now I'm not saying you should excuse it. I'm just saying don't lose your mind. She says how can you offer better water than he and his sons and his animals enjoyed?
She's saying, who do you think you are? Listen to what Jesus does. He doesn't bite. He doesn't bite. Oh.
Man, isn't it amazing how the people that you love can push your button? My wife knows right where my button is. My kids know right where my button is. My my mother knows right where it is. Whoo.
Man, isn't it amazing? The closer the relationship, the bigger the button. Come on. It just is. Look what Jesus does.
He doesn't bite, he doesn't take it personal. He doesn't take it personal. When you're a teenager's like I hate you, you're ruining my life. They don't even know what life is yet. Just take your button and put it over here.
You're not you're not pressing this and they're gonna try. Jesus replied, anyone who drinks this water will soon become thirsty again, but those who drink the water I give, listen to this, he says anyone. He takes it away from her and he takes it to everybody, anyone. Listen, so if you're in a fight, look, I can totally see how a lot of people would see the see the way you see it. It's not just you.
I understand that. He says, but what I'm saying is I got something better for you and if you drink what I have, you will never be thirsty again and it becomes a fresh bubbling spring within them giving them eternal life. He just took all the attention off her and he put it everywhere else and now she has the space to go, okay. Listen to me. Jesus is not trying to put her down.
Listen to this. He's trying to set her free. Come on now. Remember that. That's good.
Remember that when you're in an argument. Remember that. What's the goal of the argument? Is it to win? If the goal of the argument is to win then you've already lost.
That's right. He's not trying to put her down. He's trying to set her free. Alright. When you're dealing with conflict work to identify the deeper issue.
Do you know most of the stupid stuff we fight about isn't even the real stuff that's the issue? It's not even the issue. It's not about, guys, your underwear on the floor or your socks. It's not about that. It's about the fact that your wife feels not appreciated and unseen.
That's the issue. And all the underwear and the socks do is highlight that. That's all it is. When you're fighting about sex and frequency, the issue is not sex. The issue is your husband feels rejected or the wife.
I've had it in both instances. The person is feeling like, hey I wanna be loved, I wanna be seen, and they're feeling rejected. When you're constantly only bringing up the stuff your kids aren't doing, All you're doing is highlighting what they already feel and that's that they're not good enough because that's what they learn at school every day. Not cool, too skinny, too fat, too dumb, not athletic enough. Man, if I learned anything in the Olympics this year, it's how many athletes battle internal negative demons.
Like when Simone Biles thinks she sucks, what does that mean for me? Do you know what the pommel horse would do to me? It would pommel me. Watching swimmers, like, they're depressed for 3 years because they got a silver medal. Dude, if I had a bronze medal, I'd be wearing it right now.
Did you see this? Isn't it amazing? These these are some of the most high functioning gifted athletes in the world and they feel worthless. So what does that mean about your kid that's probably never even gonna attend an Olympics? Not compete, attend.
You gotta build them up. Please sir, the woman said, give me this water. Then I'll never be thirsty again and I won't have to come here and get water. And Jesus says, go and get your husband. It was never about water.
It was never about the well. Talk about the real issue. Go and get your husband, Jesus told her. I don't have a husband, the woman replied. Listen to me.
You can never solve a problem when you are fighting about the wrong issue. Look at our political problem. Look at the left and look at the right. We're never going to solve this problem between Democrats and Republicans until we just say this out loud, the dream of America isn't working for most people. That's the problem.
We're paying a ton of money at the grocery store and things aren't working. And I don't care whose idea it is, but somebody fix this. Rather than name calling and pointing fingers and talking about how terrible the other person is, why don't we talk about this? The America that my parents gave to me is not the America that I'm able to give to my kids. It's not as good.
And that's a problem. And name calling won't fix that. How many of you guys want better jobs and make more money? Anybody? And if your hand's not up, go to counseling.
Nobody wants better jobs and to make more money in here? Don't put your hand up if you work for me. Me. Talk about talk about the real issue. I recently did some counseling with a couple.
And please don't, you know, Instagram me, do count I I can barely do it and I I just try to do it whenever I can just to stay fresh on what's really happening. That's why I try to do it. Because I actually want to be a pastor. I just don't wanna play 1 on Sundays. You know what I'm saying?
But they were separated talking about divorce. And so we met. They're already separated. They're already living in different places. Look, this is a 911 4 alarm fire counseling session.
And I asked the husband, I said, do you love her? And he says, of course I do. I said, tell her. And he said, I love you. And I said, do you believe him?
To the wife. And she just kinda looked at me. I said, do you trust him? And she didn't say anything. I said, does he lie to you?
And they both said yes. They both said yes. I asked him, I said, why do you lie to her? I said, do you love her? He said, yes.
I said, but she doesn't trust you. I said, why do you lie? Listen to what he said. He said, I'm afraid if I tell her the truth, she's gonna leave me because she already has. The core issue isn't lying, it's fear.
It's fear. He's afraid to tell her the truth so you can fight all day long about lies, about honesty, about accountability. He's afraid that his wife will leave him if he's honest about what he's done. And by the way, as your pastor, if I thought if I told Tammy the truth about something I'd done, if I thought I would lose her forever, I'm going to tell you as your pastor who believes lying is wrong, I would really struggle being honest. And if that's too real for you, go to another church.
Our vision is to be real. His issue was he was afraid of losing her. And then I asked her, why do you keep threatening to leave? Why do you keep leaving? Why do you keep doing this?
And then she said, she said, I'm ashamed. She said, I don't think I'm worthy of him. His issues fear and her issues shame. And they've never talked about either of those issues. She kept running away to protect herself.
I said, do you love him? She said, absolutely with all my heart. I just don't think I deserve him. Listen to me. A problem rightly identified is half solved.
Somebody write that down. A problem rightly identified is half solved. So agree on the problem, then discuss possible solutions. And then each of you recommend the best choice. Like with your teenagers, what's the problem?
Have them go and do the work. Bring back 3 solutions and then ask them what's the best one. Now, you don't have to submit to a parent, you're the parent, but oftentimes your kid will identify the best decision. Next, speak the truth in love. Jesus said, you're right.
You don't have a husband. For you have had 5 husbands and you aren't even married to the man that you are living with now. You certainly spoke the truth. Sir, the woman said, you must be a prophet. I have no idea why she doesn't flip Jesus off and walk away.
Some of you've never thought about this. You see there is a way to say offensive things without being offensive. Our politicians may have forgotten this but as Christians we can never forget this. There's a way to say offensive things without being offensive. How do you do that?
Remember the goal. The goal wasn't gotcha, you're a slut, you're a whore, you're a bad girl, I win, I'm Jesus, oh yeah, that was never the goal. The goal was her. She was the touchdown. She was the home run.
She was the gold medal. That's why he was there, not to make her feel bad but to win her back. Amen. Amen. Come on.
Jesus replied, believe me, dear woman, we've just identified, she's been married 5 times, she's currently living with a man and you think, Ben, that's not relationally successful today. 2000 years ago, it's disastrous. It's why she's at the well all alone. Women won't even go with her. He says the time is coming when it will no longer matter whether you worship the father on this mountain or in Jerusalem.
But the time is coming, listen to this, and in is in and is indeed here now. When true worshipers will worship the Father, listen to this, in spirit and in truth, the Father is looking for those who will worship him in that way. For God is spirit and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. And the woman said, I know the Messiah is coming. You see what Jesus has awakened in her is hope.
You wanna know why you give up on relationships? You lose hope. I don't wanna have this conversation again. It never solves. It never matters.
They never change. Jesus awakened hope. The woman said, I know the Messiah is coming, the one who is called the Christ. When he comes, listen to this, he will explain everything to us. Then Jesus said, I am the Messiah.
It was all about reconciliation. Christianity is all about regulation reconciliation. And you say you have no idea what this person has done to me. You have no idea what you did to Jesus. So when we did that marriage counseling, they came in to my office.
He sat on one couch, she sat on the other. And as we talked for an hour, they just kept sliding and getting closer and closer and closer. And by the end, she's cuddling up next to him like a cat. And I'm like, bro, I would go home right now. Right now is the time.
And I said, do you love each other? And they said, yeah. I said, then never forget it. And we prayed. We prayed.
Listen to me. I know some of you have said there's no hope for my relationship with my kid, my friend, my church. This is too far gone. Look. I just sat there and watched the Lord work.
I just sat there and watch watched the Lord work and all we did was create a space of grace, we got to the real issue, and we rejoiced when the truth went out. That was it. That was it. So here's what I wanna challenge you to do today. Whatever person has offended you and hurt you, I want you to pray for that person and say, lord, help me to love them the way that you love me.
Now listen to this. And help me to act towards them. You're gonna hate this prayer. The way that you have acted towards me. If you can live that out, you will be such a bright light.
Everyone in your life will wanna know Jesus. Everyone will wanna know Jesus. I love you, I'm praying for you. Your marriages, your relationship with your kids, I'm praying for you. Your friendships, your roommates, people that you work with, look, people are hard.
That's why we have to have hard conversations. But if you can learn to do this, you will have a better home life. I promise this. Let's pray together. Heavenly father, we pray in the name of Jesus that you would bless our relationships.
God, give us a heart for the person who's offended us like Jesus had a heart for this woman. God, teach us through this passage. Some of us need to listen to this message over and over and over again as we try to figure out as broken people how to be married, how to love our kids, how to love our parents, how to love our friends, how to love our church, how to love people, lord Jesus. Help us with this, we pray in Jesus' name. Amen.
Morgan Teruel: Thank you so much for tuning in today. If you want more content from this series, we have a YouTube playlist linked in the description. And if you want more information about who we are and what we do, you can go to sandals church.com.