1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,240 I wanted more time with my daughter Emerson. On Father's Day. 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,400 We spent three hours together. We had a great time. I had a great time. 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,040 It was really fun. And once the 4 00:00:12,040 --> 00:00:15,720 whole outing ended, I was thinking we'd 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,840 go and do something else we wanted. I wanted to go to a movie or 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,640 hang out by the pool, do something different. And I could feel this 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,170 defensiveness welling up in me. And I even could see 8 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,080 sense myself being tempted to say something that would put pressure or guilt on 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,200 her to spend more time with me. I didn't, 10 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,240 luckily, because I recognized it. But it 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,560 took me down for a little bit. I wasn't being grateful for the time that 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,520 I got. I wasn't recognizing her as an 18 year old who wanted to go 13 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,360 hang out with her friends. And that's the thing about 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,320 being defensive. We make things worse. We add to 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,020 drama. If you interact with people 16 00:00:55,380 --> 00:00:58,980 at work or at home who get defensive often it 17 00:00:58,980 --> 00:01:01,940 adds stress to the interactions. We end up 18 00:01:02,820 --> 00:01:06,460 being focused on things that aren't 19 00:01:06,460 --> 00:01:10,140 important because we have to actually deal with the defensiveness. We 20 00:01:10,140 --> 00:01:13,860 don't feel the freedom to share ideas. It creates some damage. 21 00:01:13,860 --> 00:01:17,340 We don't address core issues. This is where the term walking on 22 00:01:17,340 --> 00:01:20,900 eggshells comes from. Because you feel people can react 23 00:01:21,060 --> 00:01:23,410 to trust is impacted, we waste time. 24 00:01:34,210 --> 00:01:38,050 Today we're going to talk about this. How to stop 25 00:01:38,050 --> 00:01:41,490 getting defensive. Here's how. All right, so this is the 26 00:01:41,490 --> 00:01:44,970 Decide youe Legacy podcast. Welcome today's 27 00:01:44,970 --> 00:01:48,650 episode. You're going to learn three ways you can work on not being 28 00:01:48,650 --> 00:01:52,100 defensive. I'm sure you can think of people at work, at home who can 29 00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:55,940 trigger you and you may even have to brace yourself. Even the word defensive, 30 00:01:56,340 --> 00:02:00,180 well, I have to protect myself. From what? From what? So 31 00:02:00,180 --> 00:02:03,980 if you learn to let that down and actually see today, you're going to see 32 00:02:03,980 --> 00:02:07,540 how impactful that is and how much stress you can 33 00:02:07,540 --> 00:02:11,140 relieve from your life when you have a different approach, 34 00:02:11,620 --> 00:02:14,900 a non defensive approach. In these difficult 35 00:02:14,900 --> 00:02:18,580 interactions that you may have at work and at home and with your 36 00:02:18,580 --> 00:02:22,410 family and friends and different people in the community, you're going to 37 00:02:22,410 --> 00:02:26,250 feel as if you can take that guard down and have tools 38 00:02:26,250 --> 00:02:29,170 to do so and tools you can implement today to start 39 00:02:29,570 --> 00:02:33,210 practicing. You can learn this through steps and it will take 40 00:02:33,210 --> 00:02:36,810 practice. So I faced a fear recently and I share a fear that I 41 00:02:36,810 --> 00:02:40,490 faced in most episodes. Because nothing is more important to your mental 42 00:02:40,490 --> 00:02:44,330 health than facing your fears. And nothing is more damaging than playing it 43 00:02:44,330 --> 00:02:48,010 safe. We're in the business of courage here. And the fear that 44 00:02:48,010 --> 00:02:51,560 I actually Faced was I have started to. 45 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,920 When we at Decide youe Legacy are potentially gonna work with a business 46 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,680 or an individual one on one client to give them some steps that they have 47 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,120 to actually take before we're going to give them a 48 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,959 proposal. So we need to see if they're gonna take action because action is where 49 00:03:06,959 --> 00:03:10,560 change happens. And if they can't do that, then we really can't 50 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,320 help. It isn't the right time. It doesn't mean it won't be in a month 51 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,080 or two months. But that's been scary for me because I 52 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,880 like to help everybody. I'm a people pleaser and I can struggle with 53 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,540 that and it's my own mindset, perspect, perspective, but it's scary. 54 00:03:24,540 --> 00:03:28,100 What's something scary that you have done over the last week? 55 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:32,260 I challenge you to put some time into thinking about that because you probably 56 00:03:32,260 --> 00:03:35,460 have done something and if you have not, plan it into the rest of your 57 00:03:35,460 --> 00:03:39,140 day. Today, I'm your host, Adam Gragg. I'm a legacy coach. 58 00:03:39,140 --> 00:03:42,820 I'm a corporate coach. I founded Decide youe Legacy in 2012 59 00:03:43,860 --> 00:03:47,540 and our purpose is to help organizations and people 60 00:03:47,540 --> 00:03:51,180 live with courage, rise above, live with 61 00:03:51,180 --> 00:03:54,980 courage. That's it. So I often struggle 62 00:03:55,140 --> 00:03:58,900 with getting defensive and actually people who can get defensive. 63 00:03:59,220 --> 00:04:02,860 I brace myself for interactions that I know could and I 64 00:04:02,860 --> 00:04:06,260 will receive some pushback. That doesn't mean I shouldn't say what I want to say 65 00:04:06,260 --> 00:04:09,860 to help them. It's not about me, but it doesn't mean it's easy 66 00:04:09,860 --> 00:04:13,620 either. Here's what I do to go into interactions and I've had a 67 00:04:13,620 --> 00:04:17,460 number of them over the last week to go into interactions prepared 68 00:04:18,340 --> 00:04:21,860 for a potential defensive response. It's 69 00:04:21,860 --> 00:04:25,060 painful to deal with this. I believe 70 00:04:25,460 --> 00:04:28,860 that a lot of people get defensive because they're 71 00:04:28,860 --> 00:04:32,420 afraid of being looked at as incompetent. 72 00:04:32,580 --> 00:04:35,900 They're afraid of somebody taking 73 00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:39,380 advantage of them. So if I don't tell them the truth about this situation, they're 74 00:04:39,380 --> 00:04:42,660 going to use that against me. They're going to see me as not doing my 75 00:04:42,660 --> 00:04:46,340 job. They're going to judge me. I'm not going to have opportunities when 76 00:04:47,060 --> 00:04:50,740 the opposite is true. Your defensiveness actually makes the 77 00:04:50,740 --> 00:04:53,380 problem worse. And collusion is a word I want you to grasp. 78 00:04:54,420 --> 00:04:58,220 Collusion, the definition, and I really like this because it motivates me to 79 00:04:58,220 --> 00:05:01,980 not be defensive is it's. I mean, this is the definition. A secret or 80 00:05:01,980 --> 00:05:05,620 illegal cooperation or conspiracy in order to cheat or deceive others. 81 00:05:06,660 --> 00:05:09,860 Wow. So when we're engaging in defensiveness, 82 00:05:10,340 --> 00:05:13,870 and there's a big difference between defensiveness and just 83 00:05:14,510 --> 00:05:17,710 making a point, pointing out facts. And it's the heart. 84 00:05:18,350 --> 00:05:21,950 It's the heart. And that's something I'm going to challenge you to consider. 85 00:05:22,030 --> 00:05:25,390 Where's my heart? Why am I doing this? What is my objective? 86 00:05:25,710 --> 00:05:29,230 Is it guarded or is it open? That's going to give you some indication. 87 00:05:29,310 --> 00:05:33,070 But we collude. We actually engage in deceptive 88 00:05:33,070 --> 00:05:36,830 activity when we're getting defensive. Do you want to 89 00:05:36,830 --> 00:05:40,600 do that? That's the problem. So here are 90 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,360 three steps that you can take to prepare and to go into 91 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,160 these interactions when you may have a tendency where you 92 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,800 may have a tendency to get defensive. Okay, the first one is to remember 93 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,640 it's not about you. If you can grasp and 94 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,320 make that kind of shift to say it's really not about me. 95 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,480 Their behavior is a reflection of them and what's going on inside of 96 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,080 them. Their behavior has potentially 97 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,760 nothing to do with what we're talking about here. It can go 98 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,280 and be stemming from way back in their life. And 99 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,360 I may perceive it as it being about me, but it's not about me. 100 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,920 That makes you. Helps you to step back and see the big 101 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,760 picture and realize that 102 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,200 everything you say is probably not going to sink in, even if you say 103 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,680 it in this situation. And defensiveness to 104 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,380 recognize it. It comes in many different forms. You may thinking 105 00:06:36,380 --> 00:06:40,100 about somebody who's loud and obnoxious and they just 106 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:43,780 have to get the last word. And that is one form of defensiveness. 107 00:06:43,780 --> 00:06:46,980 But defensiveness also can be from avoidance, 108 00:06:47,140 --> 00:06:50,940 passive aggressive behavior. They're defending through not addressing anything 109 00:06:50,940 --> 00:06:54,500 at all. It can come in the form of distraction. I'm 110 00:06:54,500 --> 00:06:58,340 defensive in the form of not actually being willing to talk about 111 00:06:58,740 --> 00:07:02,530 the core issues at hand. You're bringing up other issues frequently rather 112 00:07:02,530 --> 00:07:06,290 than facing the one main one. And a key indicator of 113 00:07:06,450 --> 00:07:09,730 somebody being defensive is this 114 00:07:09,890 --> 00:07:13,410 flavor of avoidance. I'm going to avoid through 115 00:07:13,490 --> 00:07:17,090 excuses, through negativity, through passivity. 116 00:07:17,090 --> 00:07:20,850 I'm going to avoid. When you recognize 117 00:07:20,850 --> 00:07:24,370 that it's not about you, then it's not an attack. 118 00:07:24,610 --> 00:07:28,050 It's not personal. It's something you can actually 119 00:07:28,370 --> 00:07:32,110 feel some empathy for. And you can see them as a 120 00:07:32,110 --> 00:07:35,950 person who is struggling rather than somebody who is trying to bring you 121 00:07:35,950 --> 00:07:38,310 down. Because your 122 00:07:39,270 --> 00:07:42,550 mindset is like, they've gone through a lot of stuff. 123 00:07:43,270 --> 00:07:46,790 They had a bad day, they don't feel great about themselves. 124 00:07:46,950 --> 00:07:50,430 They don't feel like they contribute. There's something else in that 125 00:07:50,430 --> 00:07:53,710 situation. This not about me attitude makes you 126 00:07:53,710 --> 00:07:57,390 check your own perspective about why you may 127 00:07:57,390 --> 00:08:01,030 be feeling defensive. What is it about you that is occurring 128 00:08:01,030 --> 00:08:04,590 in this situation and what has happened in your life that 129 00:08:04,590 --> 00:08:08,070 leads you to interact with this defensive person in a way where you have to 130 00:08:08,070 --> 00:08:11,790 guard yourself. That is going to give you some clues. Maybe. Maybe you 131 00:08:11,790 --> 00:08:14,990 want to be a person who is always 132 00:08:15,550 --> 00:08:19,310 looked at as smart, or the person who has the answers or the person who 133 00:08:19,310 --> 00:08:22,950 has the ability to contribute in every situation. I mean, it's a 134 00:08:22,950 --> 00:08:26,470 humbling thing to say. I don't know. I don't have the answer, but I'll research 135 00:08:26,470 --> 00:08:29,550 it and I'll find out. When it's not about you, you're willing to do that. 136 00:08:29,550 --> 00:08:33,230 That's where the stress leaves. Because you have more 137 00:08:33,710 --> 00:08:37,150 time and opportunities. It doesn't have to be fixed in this specific 138 00:08:37,230 --> 00:08:40,750 moment. You can listen and understand when you're defensive. 139 00:08:41,150 --> 00:08:44,750 You're formulating your response even before you're actually listening. That's one of the costs of 140 00:08:44,750 --> 00:08:48,390 being defensive. You don't actually understand. You stay in a 141 00:08:48,390 --> 00:08:52,200 guarded place. You aren't even 142 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,960 able to build relationships because of that wall between you 143 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,800 and somebody else because you're not willing to put it down. Their defensiveness 144 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,800 does not mean that you have to be defensive as well. In fact, 145 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,520 the likelihood of them not 146 00:09:07,159 --> 00:09:09,560 interacting in that way is 147 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,800 directly is influenced greatly in a direct 148 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,310 fashion. If you can stay calm and you can 149 00:09:18,310 --> 00:09:21,430 remember that it's not about you. So 150 00:09:22,230 --> 00:09:25,830 real client conversation that I had recently, 151 00:09:26,950 --> 00:09:29,590 a lady who can get defensive with her husband, 152 00:09:30,630 --> 00:09:33,669 and there are certain things that her husband will say 153 00:09:34,230 --> 00:09:37,750 that trigger this defensiveness. And I asked her, well, what are those things? 154 00:09:37,910 --> 00:09:41,750 And as we talked about it, and it wasn't really the easiest conversation. They were 155 00:09:41,750 --> 00:09:45,580 things related to managing time productivity. And 156 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:49,460 I don't think this husband was being a control freak or 157 00:09:49,460 --> 00:09:53,140 anything like that. Her answer, as we discussed it was, he 158 00:09:53,140 --> 00:09:56,700 says things that are actually true. He points out things in my life. 159 00:09:56,780 --> 00:10:00,580 He shines light on it in a way. And she described it as in 160 00:10:00,580 --> 00:10:03,820 a compassionate, caring way. But I get defensive because 161 00:10:04,220 --> 00:10:07,940 I don't like the fact that I spend time on these specific 162 00:10:07,940 --> 00:10:11,660 activities. They weren't necessarily time wasters, but they were things that weren't 163 00:10:12,340 --> 00:10:15,940 as productive and encouraging in her life. They weren't helping 164 00:10:15,940 --> 00:10:18,820 her at the same level that other activities help. 165 00:10:19,460 --> 00:10:23,140 And that was insightful. That was stepping back and seeing 166 00:10:23,140 --> 00:10:26,820 that her defensiveness was rooted in 167 00:10:28,180 --> 00:10:32,020 her not wanting to change these parts of her life 168 00:10:32,020 --> 00:10:35,380 where she isn't using her time wisely. 169 00:10:36,180 --> 00:10:39,760 Her words, not her words. So. And she even said, you 170 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,400 Know, he points out the ways that I can be selfish. 171 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,040 Whether or not she's being super selfish, 172 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,280 I don't know. I don't have the details. But our 173 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,120 defensiveness, their defensiveness can easily 174 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,840 be related to things that they don't want revealed that are true. 175 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,840 And if you remember that it's not about you, you can have empathy for it 176 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,320 being hard to shine light on areas that are 177 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,040 dark. The darkness can't hide anymore. It can get 178 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,640 into more darkness, and that's sometimes what happens. But it 179 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,480 can't hide for that moment in the darkness. So the 180 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,240 second step thing to focus on here, one is to remember it's not 181 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,000 about you. I'm going into this interaction. It's not about me. It's not about 182 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,720 me. And the second thing is you can get 183 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,270 curious. And I'm. You've heard me say this. All my 184 00:11:32,270 --> 00:11:36,030 corporate, all the Decide youe Legacy clients, I mean, they know this. Be curious. Be 185 00:11:36,030 --> 00:11:39,870 curious. So. So by curiosity, you're taking the focus off of 186 00:11:39,870 --> 00:11:43,590 you and you're putting it towards some kind of production productive interaction 187 00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:47,270 where you're getting to know somebody better, you're understanding the situation better. 188 00:11:47,590 --> 00:11:51,350 There's loads and loads and loads of opportunities to learn about 189 00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:55,030 somebody else. When you see somebody, 190 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,360 even when they're difficult as having value and 191 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,120 counting the same as you and somebody you can learn about 192 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,320 and get to know and understand, then 193 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,480 it's going to lead you to want to interact in a way 194 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,520 that's productive, where it's moving the needle and where it's not 195 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,480 destructive. And which, by the way, 196 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,680 productive meetings for businesses. 197 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:23,440 And I get this all the time. In fact, I'm going to do a podcast 198 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,180 in the next few on how to have a great meeting. Something that I 199 00:12:27,180 --> 00:12:30,820 hear a lot. But as I've talked about this today, it 200 00:12:30,820 --> 00:12:34,620 reminded me that meetings where people get defensive, 201 00:12:34,780 --> 00:12:38,620 they don't move the needle on solving a problem. They just use 202 00:12:38,620 --> 00:12:41,780 that as a distraction to not actually address the core issue. That 203 00:12:41,780 --> 00:12:45,540 defensiveness guards them from actually making 204 00:12:45,540 --> 00:12:49,340 progress and it makes meetings suck. And that's why people don't like meetings, because they 205 00:12:49,340 --> 00:12:53,060 don't make progress. I see meetings that companies 206 00:12:53,060 --> 00:12:56,180 have where they're excited to go. I had one last night with a company leadership 207 00:12:56,180 --> 00:12:59,140 team. They're excited to engage because they're making 208 00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:03,140 progress. And the structure and the leadership and 209 00:13:03,140 --> 00:13:06,580 ownership of how we can get defensive adds to that 210 00:13:06,580 --> 00:13:10,340 progress. It makes that environment fun. And who shouldn't have fun at 211 00:13:10,340 --> 00:13:13,900 work. I know Troy likes to have fun. We like to have fun. 212 00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:17,460 Okay. Fun is good. So another client, 213 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,000 Real Situation, had 214 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,680 talking about some difficult interactions at work. He was able to 215 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:29,200 identify that his defensiveness often comes 216 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:33,360 from not knowing the answers and wanting to appear as if he does 217 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,720 know the answers. So his heart is. 218 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,840 Isn't in the right place, his motive isn't in the right place. He's new in 219 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,530 his position, he's very competent, he's very smart. He, he's around 220 00:13:43,530 --> 00:13:47,210 other very competent, smart people. So bunch of 221 00:13:47,210 --> 00:13:50,730 architects and newer in that kind of role. 222 00:13:51,290 --> 00:13:54,970 And it comes out as defensiveness. So he's bracing when 223 00:13:54,970 --> 00:13:58,410 asked questions to give a response that makes him look 224 00:13:58,730 --> 00:14:02,170 competent and it leads him into interactions 225 00:14:02,490 --> 00:14:06,330 where there's not an exchange of information because those questions 226 00:14:06,410 --> 00:14:10,180 oftentimes are just curious questions and people are trying to 227 00:14:10,180 --> 00:14:13,220 get to know him and understand. But that defensive response 228 00:14:13,940 --> 00:14:17,780 kills the progress and it's not what we actually want. 229 00:14:17,940 --> 00:14:21,660 We stay guarded. We don't grow. We let 230 00:14:21,660 --> 00:14:25,460 our guard down. We're open out of hope, we grow. 231 00:14:25,940 --> 00:14:29,780 Hope versus fear. Big deal. So if you want to work 232 00:14:29,780 --> 00:14:33,460 on this, I'll tell you. When you go into interactions 233 00:14:33,460 --> 00:14:35,460 potentially where you know, you might get defensive, 234 00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:39,650 it's really essential to 235 00:14:40,370 --> 00:14:43,090 recognize how your own personal, 236 00:14:44,210 --> 00:14:47,090 I don't necessarily like the phrase self care, but your own personal 237 00:14:49,730 --> 00:14:52,970 self care is impacting it. So if you didn't get enough sleep, if you're not 238 00:14:52,970 --> 00:14:56,770 eating healthy, if you're not getting exercise, and also if you're 239 00:14:56,770 --> 00:15:00,410 not going into those interactions prepared, so know what 240 00:15:00,410 --> 00:15:04,160 you're dealing with so you don't give your power away and don't. That's exactly 241 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,000 what you do when you get sucked into someone else's defensiveness. You're giving 242 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,840 all the power and productivity to somebody else. In fact, 243 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,680 it's not productive, but you're giving anything good that could have come out of that 244 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,160 interaction is being thrown away 245 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,920 because now you're just spinning in collusion, 246 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,680 making it worse. And you're going on a tangent which isn't leading you towards 247 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,210 progress, which discourages everybody, including 248 00:15:30,210 --> 00:15:34,010 yourself. Don't want to do that. So what I like to 249 00:15:34,010 --> 00:15:37,850 do is have some questions prepared in 250 00:15:37,850 --> 00:15:41,490 advance if things go south. So what you can do 251 00:15:41,650 --> 00:15:45,450 is even somebody is defensive and you 252 00:15:45,450 --> 00:15:49,090 know and you can ask the question, can you tell me more? 253 00:15:49,250 --> 00:15:52,370 You're getting curious. So they have to give you specific examples 254 00:15:52,770 --> 00:15:56,290 potentially or even ask that question. Can you give me specific examples? 255 00:15:56,610 --> 00:16:00,380 I can tell this is bothering you. I would really like to 256 00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:03,900 learn more. I'm curious. Can you give me an example? Or 257 00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:07,820 you can ask similar Questions in a defensive manner, which 258 00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:10,860 happens. And that's not what I'm talking about here. 259 00:16:11,180 --> 00:16:14,460 Crossing your arms and shaking your head and saying, can you tell me more? You 260 00:16:14,460 --> 00:16:18,220 know, opening your, your arms up, that's not a open posture. 261 00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:21,340 So it has to be a genuine curious 262 00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:25,670 question, right? There has to be, or else it's going to 263 00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:29,190 collude. And you don't want to collude. If 264 00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:33,110 you go in knowing that if things go really south in that interaction 265 00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:35,910 and you're probably caught off guard with some of these defensive 266 00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:39,830 interactions, but you can always 267 00:16:41,750 --> 00:16:45,510 remember that other people in the situation, you can ask them questions 268 00:16:45,830 --> 00:16:49,590 and that can take people out of that emotional place into their prefrontal 269 00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:53,420 cortex where they have to think. And that's what you want. Because defensiveness 270 00:16:53,420 --> 00:16:56,860 comes out of the part of the brain that's emotion centered, called the amygdala. 271 00:16:57,180 --> 00:17:00,940 And thinking doesn't come from that same 272 00:17:00,940 --> 00:17:04,540 space. You can see this in interaction. So people start to think 273 00:17:04,780 --> 00:17:08,580 and they start to let their guard down. So third action 274 00:17:08,580 --> 00:17:11,900 to take keep in mind when going into potentially 275 00:17:12,380 --> 00:17:16,100 difficult conversations is your time horizon. 276 00:17:16,100 --> 00:17:19,660 Okay, so what I mean by this is time is a big deal. It's 277 00:17:19,890 --> 00:17:23,410 the way we orient ourselves to life. I had a client recently 278 00:17:23,570 --> 00:17:27,250 that interacted with me in a way where it seemed like he had to make 279 00:17:27,250 --> 00:17:29,970 every decision that day. Everything was urgent and important 280 00:17:30,770 --> 00:17:34,610 and just discussing things and his age 281 00:17:35,170 --> 00:17:38,850 and realizing in the conversation that he wants to be in this career that he's 282 00:17:38,850 --> 00:17:42,610 in for the next 30 years potentially, well, he's got lots of time to make 283 00:17:42,610 --> 00:17:46,410 mistakes and try new things and learn how to delegate. It doesn't have to 284 00:17:46,410 --> 00:17:50,220 happen today. Now, when people bring up money, a lot of times there's urgency 285 00:17:50,220 --> 00:17:53,940 tied to that. Even that. If you think I have lots of time 286 00:17:53,940 --> 00:17:57,780 to make money and lose money, but get better at making money, that's expanding your 287 00:17:57,780 --> 00:18:01,460 time horizon and it's going to decrease your anxiety going into 288 00:18:01,460 --> 00:18:04,940 potential difficult interactions. Because if they get defensive, 289 00:18:05,260 --> 00:18:08,660 and if you get defensive and you collude, well, you're going to have 290 00:18:08,660 --> 00:18:11,580 opportunities to learn. I don't want you to do that, but you're going to have 291 00:18:11,740 --> 00:18:15,510 opportunities to learn from that. If you 292 00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:18,750 are in an interaction and you don't feel like it goes anywhere because of their 293 00:18:18,750 --> 00:18:22,230 defensiveness, well, you have a longer term time horizon, that's 294 00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:25,590 okay. And you can still get a lot out of this interaction 295 00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:28,830 if, if you handle it, if you do your part, if you do your. So 296 00:18:28,830 --> 00:18:32,550 you can practice, that gives you the freedom to practice. You have lots and lots 297 00:18:32,550 --> 00:18:36,310 of time and lots and lots of chances. Seven up right 298 00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:39,990 there. So my buddy Brent, who is good friend 299 00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:43,670 and he's a therapist, and I refer clients to him because that's not our world. 300 00:18:44,180 --> 00:18:48,020 It was my world in the past. But he, as I 301 00:18:48,020 --> 00:18:51,740 was talking to him, can talk about and be a little 302 00:18:51,740 --> 00:18:55,180 bit hard on himself. You know, I should have done this differently with this client. 303 00:18:55,180 --> 00:18:58,140 You know, I wish I would have known that before or when am I going 304 00:18:58,140 --> 00:19:01,820 to learn how to engage in a way where helps the 305 00:19:01,820 --> 00:19:05,460 client, you know, better, like other people help clients? I mean, that's not the 306 00:19:05,540 --> 00:19:09,220 verbatim in our conversation. But I asked him, though, because 307 00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:11,380 he's a little older than me. I said, do you want to be doing this 308 00:19:11,380 --> 00:19:14,300 in 20 years? And his answer was, quickly, 309 00:19:15,020 --> 00:19:18,860 yeah, if I can get past some of this junk right now, 310 00:19:18,940 --> 00:19:22,620 is the gist of what he said. And, well, how 311 00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:25,980 good do you think you'll be in 20 years? And he said, well, I'll probably 312 00:19:25,980 --> 00:19:29,660 be better than I am now. And then we talked 313 00:19:29,660 --> 00:19:32,540 about, well, if you're going to be doing this 20 years 314 00:19:33,180 --> 00:19:36,220 and you're going to keep getting better at it, then 315 00:19:37,260 --> 00:19:41,010 what are the actions you should focus on now over 316 00:19:41,010 --> 00:19:44,610 the next 90 days that are going to help you to keep getting better? And 317 00:19:44,610 --> 00:19:48,450 he had certain tasks and actions that he could 318 00:19:48,450 --> 00:19:52,250 engage, and one was working on his patience with himself, 319 00:19:52,250 --> 00:19:56,090 and another was related to some training 320 00:19:56,090 --> 00:19:59,610 and application of that training. But he had some ideas. But I could see in 321 00:19:59,610 --> 00:20:03,450 him, at least my perception was it relieved a lot of the tension 322 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,080 about from him going into these interactions, which you 323 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,800 can deal with defensiveness as a clinician and other people. 324 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,480 I mean, that is that resistance to change. It's the big fear people have. 325 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,320 It's a big fear and loss of connection. And you risk, 326 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,400 you risk, you go into a therapeutic interaction. 327 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,040 I mean, it's like they can get defensive. So you got time, 328 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,680 you got chances, which is a great, encouraging, 329 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,600 exciting thing. And if you go 330 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,280 in that way, like, for me, I made a 331 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,120 shift about two years ago. A year and a half. Well, 332 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:46,480 I would say a year and a half ago. And the shift was 333 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,720 that because there were times in my life where I just wanted to make 334 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,880 money fast in my career. I wanted a home run, 335 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,440 like. And I do projects and sell 336 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,240 courses and have tried new things. And I 337 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,720 want it to work at a high level right away. I have this 338 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,280 urgency addiction. But I remember 339 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,920 reading a book and having some conversations with some other business 340 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,480 leaders, and it started to sink in that I'm going to be doing this for 341 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,320 a long time and I'm going to make mistakes and it's okay. I like 342 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,100 to think of myself doing this for at least 27 more years. Running 343 00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:27,780 the side youe Legacy, doing coaching and doing more and more. What is fascinating and 344 00:21:27,780 --> 00:21:31,620 motivating to me most, which is coaching and which is creating 345 00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:35,300 content, which is. And there's some things that are just irritating for me 346 00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:38,540 and learn how to delegate that. But that time horizon is like, I can go 347 00:21:38,540 --> 00:21:42,300 into interactions and I can experiment and I can give myself 348 00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:46,140 some grace if it doesn't go well. Total shift 349 00:21:46,140 --> 00:21:49,890 for me. I mean, when I keep that mindset in place. So 350 00:21:49,890 --> 00:21:53,090 you want to do that as you go into interactions. I mean, give yourself 351 00:21:53,490 --> 00:21:57,330 some grace as you go in and deal with other people's defensiveness. 352 00:21:57,330 --> 00:22:01,130 So I want to share a 353 00:22:01,130 --> 00:22:04,970 story that this is something that happened. This 354 00:22:04,970 --> 00:22:07,330 happened a couple months ago and 355 00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:12,130 I was. I had a meeting with 356 00:22:12,130 --> 00:22:15,850 a number of business owners. So they all own a 357 00:22:15,850 --> 00:22:19,500 specific business and one of 358 00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:23,140 the owners was very skeptical about engaging 359 00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:27,940 corporate development our services. And I knew that I had never 360 00:22:27,940 --> 00:22:30,740 met him. I had met two of the owners. I had not met two of 361 00:22:30,740 --> 00:22:34,180 the owners. But I knew the guy had been in this job for over 30 362 00:22:34,180 --> 00:22:37,700 years. He had been a big part of the success of the company. There had 363 00:22:37,700 --> 00:22:41,340 been a number of different changes. The organization wants to grow a lot of things 364 00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:45,180 that were good and positive. But this level of defensiveness, I knew 365 00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:48,430 it was going to be something I was facing that day. 366 00:22:48,910 --> 00:22:52,390 And I'll tell you what, I mean, for a long period of time, I was 367 00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:56,030 dreading having that interaction. I was like, it's not going to go 368 00:22:56,030 --> 00:22:59,390 well. My inner roommate is, you know, he's not going to like me. 369 00:22:59,630 --> 00:23:03,470 One of those things. It. They're not going to want to work with me, 370 00:23:04,350 --> 00:23:08,110 you know, but do I want to work with them? I don't even want to 371 00:23:08,110 --> 00:23:11,950 have this meeting. You should cancel the meeting. It's not going to be useful anyway. 372 00:23:12,290 --> 00:23:16,090 I knew that was fear. I knew that wasn't healthy. When I could make 373 00:23:16,090 --> 00:23:19,570 the shift to say, I want to help these people and if I can, 374 00:23:19,810 --> 00:23:22,450 let's see if we can move forward. But we got to have this interaction to 375 00:23:22,450 --> 00:23:26,170 even see if it's possible for me to help this company for decide your 376 00:23:26,170 --> 00:23:29,970 legacy to help them. And so sure enough, and this has happened to 377 00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:33,690 me many times. It's not like I haven't experienced this before, but I knew when 378 00:23:33,690 --> 00:23:37,450 I was going in that he was going to be Defensive. And he questioned 379 00:23:37,450 --> 00:23:41,230 my credibility. So it was more like, you know, who have you 380 00:23:41,230 --> 00:23:44,950 helped? You know, what's your education? Why are you qualified to help us? 381 00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:48,750 You're not in our industry, which I'm not in that industry. I'm the only. I'm 382 00:23:48,750 --> 00:23:52,550 not in any of the industries of the companies that we actually work for. So 383 00:23:52,550 --> 00:23:55,270 that's fine. I mean, he knew the answer to these things. But 384 00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:59,950 going into that interaction, I ended up le. I 385 00:23:59,950 --> 00:24:03,710 ended up. It ended up being a very good interaction, so very defensive. And what 386 00:24:03,710 --> 00:24:06,970 I did is I said, hey, can you tell me more? 387 00:24:07,450 --> 00:24:10,730 I'd like to know more. What is the concern that you have? 388 00:24:11,610 --> 00:24:15,210 And this has happened numerous times. But his response 389 00:24:15,690 --> 00:24:19,530 to that was to not answer that question 390 00:24:20,410 --> 00:24:24,090 and to let the other people in the meeting 391 00:24:24,570 --> 00:24:28,410 ask their questions. And he interacted at a higher level after 392 00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:32,170 that. Because I didn't collude and say, well, I've 393 00:24:32,170 --> 00:24:35,550 helped all these companies and I've got this education or whatever. That 394 00:24:35,550 --> 00:24:39,310 stuff didn't matter to him. And I'm not big 395 00:24:39,310 --> 00:24:42,990 on that kind of stuff either. As far as showing people's credibility, 396 00:24:42,990 --> 00:24:46,750 I'm big on results. So this company has gotten this result, this person 397 00:24:46,750 --> 00:24:50,550 has gotten this result. Yes. And I believe 398 00:24:50,550 --> 00:24:53,630 training is valuable and experience is valuable. Don't get me wrong. There 399 00:24:54,270 --> 00:24:57,830 to him, to build trust. I asked a question, I got him to think. He 400 00:24:57,830 --> 00:25:01,630 didn't answer the question. And during the rest of the interaction, they were good 401 00:25:02,300 --> 00:25:05,980 times where he was engaged and there were times where he wasn't. I left that 402 00:25:05,980 --> 00:25:09,580 meeting and I believe, even. I believe all 403 00:25:09,580 --> 00:25:13,100 four, although one individual, this individual 404 00:25:13,180 --> 00:25:17,020 probably wouldn't, I don't believe, would have admitted it at the end of the conversation. 405 00:25:17,340 --> 00:25:20,980 He will admit it now, but it was an interaction where we were 406 00:25:20,980 --> 00:25:24,740 energized. I was energized. I could tell they were energized because there was 407 00:25:24,740 --> 00:25:27,980 some action that could be taken based on that conversation. 408 00:25:29,250 --> 00:25:32,770 Defensive person, difficult interaction, but a really 409 00:25:32,770 --> 00:25:36,290 positive and productive one. So if, if you. 410 00:25:37,010 --> 00:25:40,730 Just to summarize, you're going to go into interactions, you're going to have to 411 00:25:40,730 --> 00:25:44,570 face it. You're going to have situations. So you remember three things. This 412 00:25:44,570 --> 00:25:47,730 is your training. This is what you practice, what you leave with. It's not about 413 00:25:47,730 --> 00:25:51,490 you. It's not about you. It's about them. It's about them. It's about the issue 414 00:25:51,490 --> 00:25:55,240 at hand. It's about something bigger and better and. And greater. Not that 415 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,880 you're not great. I know you're great. You can get curious and 416 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,600 Tap into that curiosity and expand your time horizon. Man. Cut yourself some slack. 417 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,080 Is it really going to be the end of your life if you deal 418 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,800 with a defensive person? It's going to help you to be calm because you 419 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,640 don't have to defend because you have an expanded time horizon. So check 420 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,200 out Shatterproof Yourself Light. Follow me 421 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,190 and check out this content. It's free. You can 422 00:26:22,190 --> 00:26:25,710 download it on the app. You can go through the content on your browser, on 423 00:26:25,710 --> 00:26:29,230 your computer. And one of the sections is 424 00:26:29,230 --> 00:26:32,870 on channeling hope rather than 425 00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:36,510 fear because defensiveness creates fear. It is fear. 426 00:26:36,510 --> 00:26:40,310 It is fear externalized right there. Watch the Hope vs. 427 00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:43,910 Fear cycle in the app in that course. Check it out 428 00:26:44,150 --> 00:26:47,840 and then we have the full version of Shadow Proof Yourself. Seven small 429 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,480 steps to a giant leap in your mental health. Check that out. If you like 430 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,240 Shadow Proof Light, check that out as well. Nothing will make 431 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,280 my day more better. 432 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,480 That's not good grammar, but nothing will make me happier than knowing you took action 433 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,560 on something based on this content today. 434 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,360 And I would encourage you to do something to take action by the end of 435 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:13,160 the day because that will make it stick. Nothing's more important than 436 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,890 action, and insight is less valuable. You're gaining insight today. Apply 437 00:27:16,890 --> 00:27:20,330 something you learned. To decide means to eliminate other options. Your 438 00:27:20,330 --> 00:27:23,890 legacy is the impact your life has on other people. There's no 439 00:27:23,890 --> 00:27:27,570 positive change until you decide to change. I want to close the way I always 440 00:27:27,570 --> 00:27:31,250 do. Live the life today that you want to be remembered for 10 years 441 00:27:31,250 --> 00:27:35,090 after you're gone. You decide your legacy. Nobody else. 442 00:27:35,170 --> 00:27:37,890 I appreciate you greatly and I'll see you next time. 443 00:27:45,540 --> 00:27:53,019 Sam.