WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.109 --> 00:00:00.519 Alan: So how's things? 00:00:00.519 --> 00:00:00.978 It's been a few 00:00:00.978 --> 00:00:01.248 weeks. 00:00:01.278 --> 00:00:01.428 Yeah. 00:00:01.638 --> 00:00:03.138 So how's things you've been busy. 00:00:03.138 --> 00:00:04.518 You've been away, right. 00:00:04.849 --> 00:00:05.749 Mario: Yeah, yeah. 00:00:05.749 --> 00:00:08.309 I've been both busy and away at the same time. 00:00:10.038 --> 00:00:11.538 Alan: You're supposed to have relax on holiday. 00:00:11.538 --> 00:00:11.748 Do you know? 00:00:12.269 --> 00:00:12.689 Mario: yeah. 00:00:12.689 --> 00:00:13.139 Right. 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:15.659 I did actually, I did. 00:00:15.719 --> 00:00:16.799 We went away for 00:00:16.799 --> 00:00:17.069 about a 00:00:17.069 --> 00:00:22.529 week and we got to disconnect and be off the grid for pretty much the entire time. 00:00:23.229 --> 00:00:23.349 Alan: I'm 00:00:23.405 --> 00:00:24.185 Mario: Except for a 00:00:24.185 --> 00:00:27.315 couple of times where we had to drive to 00:00:27.315 --> 00:00:30.165 somewhere where we could get signal because we needed to 00:00:30.165 --> 00:00:31.725 put out a couple of fires. 00:00:31.755 --> 00:00:32.055 But 00:00:32.055 --> 00:00:35.085 other than that, we were off the grid for about a 00:00:35.085 --> 00:00:35.445 week. 00:00:35.829 --> 00:00:37.839 Alan: I think it's going off the grid actually comes with 00:00:37.839 --> 00:00:39.609 its own form of, anxiety. 00:00:39.609 --> 00:00:39.849 Right. 00:00:39.879 --> 00:00:41.079 Because you're worried about what 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:41.589 you're missing 00:00:41.589 --> 00:00:44.339 in terms of like, you know, any problems with servers or 00:00:44.359 --> 00:00:46.029 just anything. 00:00:46.059 --> 00:00:46.359 Yeah. 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:46.809 You know, you're 00:00:46.809 --> 00:00:47.169 kind of 00:00:47.169 --> 00:00:50.379 like when you see that certain bars come back, you're 00:00:50.379 --> 00:00:50.559 like, oh 00:00:50.559 --> 00:00:51.969 my God, the notifications are 00:00:51.969 --> 00:00:52.599 just going to come. 00:00:53.090 --> 00:00:53.540 Mario: Yeah, 00:00:54.129 --> 00:00:54.549 Alan: So 00:00:54.710 --> 00:00:55.910 Mario: just a stream of them. 00:00:56.319 --> 00:00:56.649 Alan: yeah. 00:00:57.139 --> 00:00:59.499 to get to a point where actually not getting 00:00:59.499 --> 00:01:02.169 notifications doesn't create anxiety would be nice. 00:01:02.510 --> 00:01:02.960 Mario: Yeah. 00:01:03.110 --> 00:01:08.120 Yeah, totally no, but it was nice to be away for a while. 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:13.662 We went camping in the woods up in the mountains near Santa Cruz, California. 00:01:13.665 --> 00:01:16.485 So Redwood forest, really nice. 00:01:16.844 --> 00:01:17.424 Alan: Very nice. 00:01:17.845 --> 00:01:21.243 Mario: Found a really nice campground and we did have access to, 00:01:21.243 --> 00:01:23.555 restrooms and shower, but, you know, 00:01:24.464 --> 00:01:25.724 Alan: that's the best kind to come ground to go 00:01:25.734 --> 00:01:29.834 because you're you're away, but you still have running water. 00:01:30.245 --> 00:01:31.415 Mario: Yeah, exactly. 00:01:31.865 --> 00:01:32.855 And it was, 00:01:32.855 --> 00:01:35.765 quite a bit of a walk to get to the restrooms, but still 00:01:35.794 --> 00:01:36.064 Alan: were that 00:01:36.455 --> 00:01:37.415 Mario: yeah, exactly. 00:01:37.465 --> 00:01:38.285 They were there. 00:01:38.345 --> 00:01:39.125 It was nice to have that 00:01:39.125 --> 00:01:39.935 option, you know, 00:01:39.994 --> 00:01:40.324 Alan: awesome. 00:01:40.533 --> 00:01:40.953 Very nice. 00:01:41.013 --> 00:01:41.393 Sounds. 00:01:41.393 --> 00:01:42.243 Sounds fantastic. 00:01:42.243 --> 00:01:43.173 You had good weather as well. 00:01:43.574 --> 00:01:44.834 Mario: Oh, yeah, it was nice. 00:01:44.864 --> 00:01:45.524 It's nice and 00:01:45.524 --> 00:01:46.034 warm. 00:01:46.101 --> 00:01:47.514 But at night it would cool 00:01:47.514 --> 00:01:48.724 down a little bit, so it 00:01:48.724 --> 00:01:49.906 would get really nice 00:01:49.906 --> 00:01:51.766 and comfortable, you 00:01:51.766 --> 00:01:52.186 know? 00:01:52.223 --> 00:01:53.183 Yeah, yeah, 00:01:53.332 --> 00:01:53.722 Alan: nice. 00:01:53.752 --> 00:01:54.202 Very nice. 00:01:54.773 --> 00:01:55.253 Mario: yeah, 00:01:55.533 --> 00:01:56.013 So 00:01:56.182 --> 00:01:58.492 Alan: we haven't had quite so a comfortable weather here. 00:01:58.552 --> 00:02:00.979 We've been we've had a lot of rain, so 00:02:00.979 --> 00:02:01.339 we say 00:02:01.429 --> 00:02:02.705 it's it's been something else. 00:02:02.735 --> 00:02:03.215 Yeah. 00:02:03.215 --> 00:02:07.716 We for like four or five days straight, it was like constant, 00:02:07.746 --> 00:02:11.586 just, and not a drizzly either that like proper, you know, proper rain. 00:02:11.976 --> 00:02:15.186 So there's a town about 50 kilometers from here. 00:02:15.456 --> 00:02:16.046 Not far. 00:02:16.826 --> 00:02:20.043 And they had a one on over a meter, 00:02:20.043 --> 00:02:22.563 so that's like three and a half over three and a half 00:02:22.563 --> 00:02:24.693 feet of rain in three 00:02:24.693 --> 00:02:25.113 days. 00:02:25.453 --> 00:02:25.950 And in the 00:02:25.950 --> 00:02:27.030 last five days, they've 00:02:27.030 --> 00:02:32.190 had a third of their usual annual rainfall in five days. 00:02:32.210 --> 00:02:36.258 So there's been like floods and landslides and everything. 00:02:36.258 --> 00:02:37.038 We're okay here. 00:02:37.038 --> 00:02:37.278 Cause. 00:02:38.083 --> 00:02:38.593 Concrete. 00:02:38.650 --> 00:02:41.920 But yeah, up in the mountains and the villages or towns around here, 00:02:41.920 --> 00:02:43.570 we've just been like, oh, it's nasty. 00:02:43.917 --> 00:02:45.387 Mario: Yeah, that's always a danger right. 00:02:45.387 --> 00:02:45.687 In, 00:02:45.687 --> 00:02:47.757 In, the countryside with Hills 00:02:47.757 --> 00:02:47.937 and 00:02:47.937 --> 00:02:50.997 mountains and getting those landslides When you have a lot of 00:02:50.997 --> 00:02:52.647 rain coming down all at once. 00:02:53.096 --> 00:02:53.546 Alan: Exactly. 00:02:53.606 --> 00:02:56.765 It's kind of a lot of, you know, the, I remember when I first moved here, 00:02:56.775 --> 00:03:00.995 date that happened, I think the year we first moved on the site, huh? 00:03:01.025 --> 00:03:01.355 That's 00:03:01.355 --> 00:03:01.835 pretty bad. 00:03:02.045 --> 00:03:03.035 That happened the year after. 00:03:03.035 --> 00:03:05.315 And it happened the year after it's basically happened every single year. 00:03:05.345 --> 00:03:06.485 And there's supposed to be like a 00:03:06.485 --> 00:03:07.565 once in a 50 year. 00:03:08.015 --> 00:03:09.515 I think that this kind 00:03:09.515 --> 00:03:12.545 of rain and landslides happen, it's like, no, no, it happens every year now. 00:03:12.545 --> 00:03:14.765 That's just, that's the way it is now. 00:03:14.765 --> 00:03:15.125 So, 00:03:15.179 --> 00:03:17.159 Yeah, I think there's a lot of things gonna have to change. 00:03:17.233 --> 00:03:18.404 But it's kind of scary. 00:03:18.805 --> 00:03:19.375 Mario: Yeah. 00:03:19.435 --> 00:03:19.855 Yeah. 00:03:19.885 --> 00:03:21.235 Climate change is real. 00:03:21.629 --> 00:03:21.929 Alan: Oh, yeah. 00:03:23.069 --> 00:03:24.569 And things, it's not going to stop you though. 00:03:24.569 --> 00:03:24.959 I mean, here, 00:03:25.019 --> 00:03:29.039 the forecast areas for the next, like, look on, you know, apple weather, 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:30.449 it's like continuous rain for the 00:03:30.449 --> 00:03:33.209 next, you know, until the whole screen is rain. 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:34.529 So it's like a hundred percent 00:03:34.529 --> 00:03:35.159 chance every day. 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:37.459 And it's like, yeah, it's not going to stop anytime soon. 00:03:37.469 --> 00:03:39.149 This is, suppose this isn't rainy season. 00:03:39.149 --> 00:03:40.679 This is just, you know, summit now. 00:03:41.115 --> 00:03:41.565 Mario: yeah. 00:03:41.785 --> 00:03:42.265 Yeah. 00:03:42.659 --> 00:03:43.379 Alan: So yuck. 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:44.369 No good. 00:03:46.394 --> 00:03:46.854 So, yeah. 00:03:46.854 --> 00:03:48.013 you haven't really done a lot to 00:03:48.085 --> 00:03:48.575 fusioncast. 00:03:48.595 --> 00:03:49.855 Then if you've been up in the mountains, 00:03:50.061 --> 00:03:50.571 Mario: Yeah. 00:03:52.821 --> 00:03:54.639 Yeah, both fortunately And 00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:55.839 unfortunately, right. 00:03:56.053 --> 00:03:57.733 Alan: you need it, you need that break, 00:03:58.029 --> 00:03:58.809 Mario: yeah, yeah. 00:03:58.809 --> 00:03:58.899 It 00:03:58.933 --> 00:04:02.313 Alan: especially since you're studying new job and you're, you know, got to get 00:04:03.013 --> 00:04:04.783 kind of back into gear for that. 00:04:04.783 --> 00:04:05.023 It's 00:04:05.023 --> 00:04:08.593 nice to have a bit of separation and a clear head a little bit before that. 00:04:08.593 --> 00:04:08.773 Right. 00:04:08.773 --> 00:04:09.073 As well. 00:04:09.349 --> 00:04:09.709 Mario: Yup. 00:04:10.069 --> 00:04:10.339 Yup. 00:04:10.519 --> 00:04:11.659 Starting next Monday. 00:04:11.659 --> 00:04:12.259 So 00:04:12.508 --> 00:04:12.868 Alan: Excellent. 00:04:13.468 --> 00:04:14.818 But you said it's fully remote, right? 00:04:14.818 --> 00:04:15.448 So you go 00:04:15.448 --> 00:04:16.198 from your 00:04:16.198 --> 00:04:19.648 desk to the same place, just different set of coworkers, right. 00:04:20.009 --> 00:04:20.429 Mario: Yup. 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:20.879 Yup. 00:04:21.599 --> 00:04:21.839 Yup. 00:04:21.869 --> 00:04:22.559 Fully remote. 00:04:22.559 --> 00:04:22.889 So, 00:04:22.918 --> 00:04:23.848 Alan: Changing jobs. 00:04:23.848 --> 00:04:25.408 Remote is that is kind of weird. 00:04:25.468 --> 00:04:25.738 Yeah. 00:04:25.738 --> 00:04:27.958 Because you're like, I'm still here. 00:04:28.948 --> 00:04:30.178 It's just a different slack channel. 00:04:30.749 --> 00:04:31.139 Mario: Right. 00:04:31.948 --> 00:04:34.048 Alan: It's kind of weird as nice, nice 00:04:34.048 --> 00:04:36.058 chance to get to know some new folks. 00:04:36.058 --> 00:04:38.608 And I think so that the roles actually different. 00:04:40.009 --> 00:04:40.999 Mario: It's more, 00:04:40.999 --> 00:04:42.319 development, heavy, more 00:04:42.669 --> 00:04:44.269 engineering side of things. 00:04:44.269 --> 00:04:46.129 more so that than design or 00:04:46.129 --> 00:04:46.879 anything like that. 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:47.039 I, 00:04:47.049 --> 00:04:48.969 think they kind of liked that I have 00:04:48.969 --> 00:04:52.059 some design background, you know I just know enough to be dangerous, 00:04:52.059 --> 00:04:53.289 when it comes to design, But 00:04:54.898 --> 00:04:56.098 Alan: You've got something to tell him that. 00:04:56.624 --> 00:04:58.214 Mario: Yeah, thanks. 00:04:58.934 --> 00:05:00.134 But primarily 00:05:00.164 --> 00:05:01.394 the role is as 00:05:01.394 --> 00:05:02.114 a developer. 00:05:03.233 --> 00:05:04.613 Alan: I was pleasantly surprised this week. 00:05:04.613 --> 00:05:08.633 So, you know, I've been kind of a little paranoid about my design skills 00:05:08.663 --> 00:05:10.493 or rather lack of design skills. 00:05:10.807 --> 00:05:13.507 And I tweeted something earlier in the week. 00:05:13.573 --> 00:05:18.103 Just kind of a mini update was poked by nudged by a friend here. 00:05:18.433 --> 00:05:18.793 And it's 00:05:18.793 --> 00:05:20.803 like, you know, you haven't posted anything for ages. 00:05:20.803 --> 00:05:22.813 And then you kind of get into this way. 00:05:23.658 --> 00:05:24.498 Because you're 00:05:24.498 --> 00:05:26.688 doing it, you assume people know about it. 00:05:26.688 --> 00:05:27.018 Right. 00:05:27.018 --> 00:05:30.468 And sometimes you kind of, it forces, you know, somebody else kind of 00:05:30.468 --> 00:05:33.588 going, you know, you're not actually talking about it It's all going on in 00:05:33.588 --> 00:05:35.928 your head, on, on your laptop, but. 00:05:36.108 --> 00:05:37.488 you're not actually talking about it. 00:05:37.488 --> 00:05:40.950 So just that small notice, like, oh Yeah, I should probably post something. 00:05:40.950 --> 00:05:44.772 So I posted just a few screenshots of like the, the redesigned new check-in. 00:05:45.957 --> 00:05:48.567 And like, does that a modal for like, you know, the welcome 00:05:48.567 --> 00:05:49.347 modal or something? 00:05:49.707 --> 00:05:54.519 So I posted those and somebody who I did some work for, oh 00:05:54.549 --> 00:05:55.959 God, a really long time ago. 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:57.069 Like 10. 00:05:57.839 --> 00:05:58.029 Yeah. 00:05:58.029 --> 00:05:59.463 about 10, nine or 10 years ago. 00:05:59.463 --> 00:06:01.584 So he he's built a number of companies. 00:06:01.584 --> 00:06:06.014 He's kind of smart guy CEO of founded like an bank in the UK. 00:06:06.394 --> 00:06:10.505 And so he posted like for for a new product that, you know, your, your app 00:06:10.535 --> 00:06:12.935 looks incredibly elegant and really nice. 00:06:12.935 --> 00:06:13.235 design. 00:06:13.235 --> 00:06:13.655 And I'm like, 00:06:14.121 --> 00:06:14.271 Mario: Oh, 00:06:14.465 --> 00:06:17.465 Alan: seriously, I, I can't tell anymore. 00:06:17.945 --> 00:06:20.285 And some of my friends would have followed up with like, 00:06:20.315 --> 00:06:21.485 no, really is it looks great. 00:06:21.755 --> 00:06:25.685 I I'm like That's That means a lot to me because I am really 00:06:25.754 --> 00:06:28.844 self-conscious of the design, just because I don't have any confidence 00:06:28.874 --> 00:06:30.494 in whether it's a good design or not. 00:06:30.524 --> 00:06:33.368 It's like, Well, it looks not too untidy. 00:06:33.368 --> 00:06:35.547 And it looks kind of okay to my iPad. 00:06:35.577 --> 00:06:38.574 I've got no it's very difficult for me to, to be, 00:06:38.574 --> 00:06:41.803 To, to actually have an understanding of whether it's good or 00:06:41.803 --> 00:06:41.983 not. 00:06:42.050 --> 00:06:43.846 So just to get somebody who I don't 00:06:43.846 --> 00:06:45.076 have any regular contact with. 00:06:45.531 --> 00:06:45.891 You know 00:06:45.954 --> 00:06:47.634 w we don't really talk or 00:06:47.634 --> 00:06:49.915 anything apart from, you know, a long time ago for him 00:06:49.915 --> 00:06:50.575 to, to 00:06:50.725 --> 00:06:53.185 say something like that was like oh, okay. 00:06:53.245 --> 00:06:56.065 Maybe it's all right after all, if he's not so bad. 00:06:56.935 --> 00:06:57.135 So that 00:06:57.135 --> 00:06:57.505 was nice. 00:06:57.931 --> 00:06:59.431 Mario: Well, no, it does look great. 00:06:59.431 --> 00:07:00.841 I haven't seen the latest 00:07:01.501 --> 00:07:07.445 redesign you've done, but, from using it before it's really nice and clean and, 00:07:07.445 --> 00:07:10.565 and it has this, what I like, about it is 00:07:10.565 --> 00:07:11.705 that it has this 00:07:12.275 --> 00:07:16.445 nice combination of modern, but old school at the same time with 00:07:16.475 --> 00:07:18.545 just simplicity, you know, very, 00:07:18.864 --> 00:07:19.914 Alan: A few people have said this to 00:07:19.914 --> 00:07:22.164 me before the eight kind of feels a slightly 00:07:22.164 --> 00:07:23.784 retro and I'm like, eh, that's okay. 00:07:24.355 --> 00:07:24.835 Mario: yeah, 00:07:24.864 --> 00:07:25.314 Alan: don't mind 00:07:25.645 --> 00:07:27.055 Mario: I'm pretty sure that's intentional, 00:07:27.174 --> 00:07:27.624 Alan: it is 00:07:27.805 --> 00:07:28.885 Mario: keeping it simple. 00:07:29.154 --> 00:07:29.514 Alan: right. 00:07:29.514 --> 00:07:31.424 I mean, it's it's partly just my aesthetic. 00:07:31.464 --> 00:07:31.524 Yeah. 00:07:31.617 --> 00:07:32.577 Preferences as well. 00:07:32.577 --> 00:07:35.757 You know, I kind of like older style web applications 00:07:35.757 --> 00:07:39.417 and you know, that style of just simplicity and. 00:07:40.487 --> 00:07:41.327 So it does what it says. 00:07:41.327 --> 00:07:41.529 Right. 00:07:41.529 --> 00:07:45.628 So that, but with a slightly, you know, obviously tailwind UI has been 00:07:45.638 --> 00:07:48.278 a, an absolute godsend for me, you know, just because it's given me 00:07:48.312 --> 00:07:48.882 a good 00:07:48.882 --> 00:07:49.690 set of 00:07:49.693 --> 00:07:52.753 like foundation of like stepping stones to build upon. 00:07:52.756 --> 00:07:56.858 And, and I think I mentioned before reading Adam's refactoring 00:07:56.858 --> 00:07:58.458 UI, is it his, his book? 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.910 I'm sure I've mentioned before, but like I read through that a number of times 00:08:01.910 --> 00:08:05.720 of just like, kind of dipping in, you know, when you, you dip into something 00:08:06.050 --> 00:08:09.440 and you don't actually think that you've read it all, you kind of like, oh Yeah. 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:10.640 I kind of skimmed that. 00:08:10.640 --> 00:08:14.150 I read a few pages and in your mind, it's like, no, I really 00:08:14.150 --> 00:08:15.189 should go back and read that. 00:08:15.222 --> 00:08:18.432 And then when you, do you realize you've actually probably read it 00:08:18.432 --> 00:08:21.702 all just in different segments and. 00:08:22.722 --> 00:08:26.862 And it struck me that when I did go back and look at it, I was actually 00:08:26.862 --> 00:08:31.092 using the techniques that he covers without actually realizing it. 00:08:31.180 --> 00:08:31.810 You know, I've kind of. 00:08:32.590 --> 00:08:34.300 I I've somewhat absorbed them. 00:08:34.330 --> 00:08:37.680 And it, I think it's helped my design skills a 00:08:37.680 --> 00:08:40.440 lot, even though, you know, that's still a long way to go in 00:08:40.450 --> 00:08:42.570 a style sense, but I 00:08:42.570 --> 00:08:43.278 think the 00:08:43.314 --> 00:08:43.734 A lot of 00:08:43.734 --> 00:08:46.914 the things he talks about, I seem to have taken on board 00:08:46.970 --> 00:08:48.964 subconsciously and seem to, be using those. 00:08:48.964 --> 00:08:50.284 So hopefully that's helped as well. 00:08:50.314 --> 00:08:54.531 So it's it's a really good resource that book and just tailwind UI in general, 00:08:54.531 --> 00:08:56.421 just cause there's some very good. 00:08:57.071 --> 00:08:58.421 Useful patterns in there 00:08:58.421 --> 00:08:59.550 that you can build upon. 00:08:59.596 --> 00:09:02.716 So yeah, I like it saves me save my life. 00:09:02.746 --> 00:09:02.956 That's 00:09:03.852 --> 00:09:04.452 Mario: yeah. 00:09:04.572 --> 00:09:05.862 I haven't had a chance to, 00:09:06.672 --> 00:09:11.311 I've seen tailwind UI, just a website and the sample, components 00:09:11.311 --> 00:09:12.331 that they have there, but 00:09:12.331 --> 00:09:15.101 I haven't to use the product itself and I haven't. 00:09:15.496 --> 00:09:16.496 bought the book either, 00:09:17.226 --> 00:09:17.486 but, 00:09:18.316 --> 00:09:19.836 but I, but I am using tailwind 00:09:19.836 --> 00:09:21.906 CSS, so it's awesome. 00:09:21.906 --> 00:09:22.386 I love it. 00:09:22.950 --> 00:09:24.450 Alan: I think then, I mean, there's 00:09:24.450 --> 00:09:24.840 this 00:09:25.260 --> 00:09:29.130 danger of falling into like, you know what bootstrap was in the 00:09:29.460 --> 00:09:31.530 early two thousands, mid two thousands. 00:09:31.530 --> 00:09:31.890 Maybe. 00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:34.770 I can't remember when bootstrap first kind of started and it 00:09:34.770 --> 00:09:35.100 was the 00:09:35.100 --> 00:09:36.947 first re-usable and 00:09:36.947 --> 00:09:38.867 dropping and looks good 00:09:38.881 --> 00:09:39.541 framework. 00:09:40.081 --> 00:09:41.191 There was this danger 00:09:41.191 --> 00:09:41.401 of 00:09:41.611 --> 00:09:43.591 suddenly everything looked like bootstrap, right. 00:09:43.591 --> 00:09:46.831 You know, overnight, every website was bootstrapped. 00:09:46.897 --> 00:09:47.467 Mario: yeah. 00:09:47.467 --> 00:09:49.117 You could see it from a mile away. 00:09:49.117 --> 00:09:49.477 Every 00:09:49.477 --> 00:09:51.067 website Oh Yeah. 00:09:51.127 --> 00:09:51.787 It's bootstrap. 00:09:51.986 --> 00:09:52.466 Alan: It's pretty strong. 00:09:52.556 --> 00:09:53.936 So there's a slight danger. 00:09:53.996 --> 00:09:56.756 I mean, when you start using tailwind UI, you see this all the time. 00:09:56.756 --> 00:09:57.356 You say, oh, 00:09:57.836 --> 00:09:59.846 that windows it's the same 00:10:00.056 --> 00:10:01.861 backgrounds, the same site you know, 00:10:01.891 --> 00:10:02.551 color. 00:10:02.752 --> 00:10:03.742 Mario: Same aesthetics. 00:10:03.916 --> 00:10:04.886 Alan: Same aesthetics yeah. 00:10:04.906 --> 00:10:08.176 So there's a slight danger of that, but it doesn't seem to have kind 00:10:08.176 --> 00:10:10.516 of annihilated everything else. 00:10:10.516 --> 00:10:13.216 Like bootstrapped did, there's not taken over in the same way, 00:10:13.486 --> 00:10:17.882 but it's there's definitely easy to spot, but it, as I say, there's a lot 00:10:17.882 --> 00:10:21.452 of components that are a lot of styles that I'm using that are completely my 00:10:21.452 --> 00:10:24.962 own, but I started with a tailwind. 00:10:26.182 --> 00:10:28.522 It may be, that was what it was first on the page. 00:10:28.522 --> 00:10:31.582 And It's been completely rewritten and moved around a bit, but it stuck 00:10:31.582 --> 00:10:35.099 with that general layout and the that the systems that it's using. 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:38.039 And it's, it's just a really good foundation for, for someone 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:39.299 like me who, you know, isn't, 00:10:39.619 --> 00:10:41.819 doesn't have any design background to draw upon. 00:10:41.819 --> 00:10:42.509 So it's 00:10:43.409 --> 00:10:44.519 highly recommended for me. 00:10:45.495 --> 00:10:45.885 Mario: Yeah. 00:10:46.199 --> 00:10:46.739 Alan: well worth it. 00:10:46.739 --> 00:10:50.249 Or is it $180 or something it's paid for? 00:10:50.249 --> 00:10:53.699 It's you know, I think it paid for itself in the first hour when I used it 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:56.489 Highly recommended. 00:10:56.870 --> 00:10:57.350 Mario: yeah. 00:10:57.920 --> 00:10:58.190 yeah. 00:10:58.190 --> 00:10:58.970 I'll, I'll get to it. 00:10:58.970 --> 00:10:59.630 at some point. 00:11:00.089 --> 00:11:01.699 Alan: Well, it's probably less 00:11:01.709 --> 00:11:04.283 necessary for you because you obviously know based on, you know, 00:11:04.283 --> 00:11:07.283 fusioncast, and you know, your, your landing pages and everything 00:11:07.283 --> 00:11:08.253 yet, you 00:11:08.303 --> 00:11:09.083 don't need, it so much 00:11:09.153 --> 00:11:09.363 as. 00:11:11.528 --> 00:11:14.078 but but the book is, is probably, there's probably even some 00:11:14.078 --> 00:11:14.318 stuff 00:11:14.318 --> 00:11:17.108 you get from this book, which is just like, oh yeah, that's why I do this. 00:11:17.378 --> 00:11:21.155 I think more than anything that I'm explaining it's not just, 00:11:21.185 --> 00:11:22.325 this looks good, this doesn't, 00:11:22.325 --> 00:11:24.395 it's like, this is why this is better than this. 00:11:24.455 --> 00:11:27.395 And just internalizing those things was really helpful for me. 00:11:27.515 --> 00:11:27.725 So. 00:11:27.726 --> 00:11:30.076 Mario: Yeah, Yeah, because that becomes repeatable. 00:11:30.076 --> 00:11:32.686 And once you understand those principles and why we need 00:11:33.076 --> 00:11:34.696 spacing, why you need, more. 00:11:34.971 --> 00:11:39.029 all the core principles of design, repetition, you know, negative 00:11:39.029 --> 00:11:40.319 space and all that stuff. 00:11:40.428 --> 00:11:43.267 Alan: Yeah, a lot of stuff with just deemphasizing 00:11:43.537 --> 00:11:45.847 texts with using colors and instead of like 00:11:46.087 --> 00:11:47.017 labels and things, 00:11:47.017 --> 00:11:50.178 just using color schemes and deemphasizing things with, you 00:11:50.178 --> 00:11:52.818 know, bolding, certain things and it's 00:11:52.908 --> 00:11:53.448 yeah. 00:11:53.478 --> 00:11:55.398 Which, you know, adds, just 00:11:55.398 --> 00:11:58.788 stick a label next to everything and go, is there, you know, what it is, right. 00:11:59.748 --> 00:12:01.038 When someone says I there's a better 00:12:01.038 --> 00:12:01.248 way, 00:12:01.278 --> 00:12:01.788 and this is 00:12:01.788 --> 00:12:01.968 how 00:12:01.968 --> 00:12:02.388 you get it. 00:12:02.418 --> 00:12:02.928 Oh, okay. 00:12:02.928 --> 00:12:03.178 I get 00:12:03.264 --> 00:12:03.624 Mario: Yeah. 00:12:03.624 --> 00:12:04.704 Yeah, it's pretty cool. 00:12:04.754 --> 00:12:09.884 That's why a while back, I decided to invest a little more time in learning 00:12:09.914 --> 00:12:13.539 a little bit of these principles because I was really clueless when it. 00:12:13.539 --> 00:12:14.529 came to designs, 00:12:14.663 --> 00:12:14.783 Alan: Yeah. 00:12:14.783 --> 00:12:16.493 you didn't have any design background? 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:16.889 Either. 00:12:17.790 --> 00:12:19.290 Mario: No, no, no. 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:21.540 I just started a few years ago. 00:12:21.540 --> 00:12:23.470 I started paying more attention to that. 00:12:23.470 --> 00:12:23.770 Okay. 00:12:23.770 --> 00:12:25.660 Why is it that I like this website? 00:12:25.660 --> 00:12:28.240 What are the characteristics that make it 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:29.740 a aesthetically pleasing? 00:12:29.740 --> 00:12:30.100 Right. 00:12:30.150 --> 00:12:31.870 And I started paying more 00:12:31.870 --> 00:12:33.430 attention to that and okay. 00:12:33.430 --> 00:12:38.290 I like the typography or, you know, how much space they used and how 00:12:38.290 --> 00:12:42.190 things are lined up in a certain way and, or, you know, Different 00:12:42.190 --> 00:12:46.790 little characteristics that make a site look, you know, nice and 00:12:46.790 --> 00:12:48.260 look as aesthetically pleasing. 00:12:48.260 --> 00:12:52.250 So, yeah, and I, I took some of those free email courses, you know, 00:12:52.250 --> 00:12:54.670 you get a drip style, read some blog 00:12:54.670 --> 00:12:56.620 articles and, and just all over time. 00:12:56.620 --> 00:12:57.320 I kept. 00:12:57.343 --> 00:12:59.623 Consuming more of that content and 00:12:59.623 --> 00:13:00.373 internalizing 00:13:00.373 --> 00:13:02.413 some of those principles of design 00:13:02.413 --> 00:13:03.703 and, little by little, it was just, 00:13:03.733 --> 00:13:03.853 you 00:13:03.853 --> 00:13:05.613 know, I would like to think that I got a 00:13:05.613 --> 00:13:08.193 little bit better, you know, about that 00:13:08.253 --> 00:13:09.333 and, I just know enough 00:13:09.333 --> 00:13:09.513 to 00:13:09.513 --> 00:13:10.143 be dangerous. 00:13:10.143 --> 00:13:10.563 Like I said. 00:13:12.277 --> 00:13:13.597 Alan: no it's great. 00:13:13.807 --> 00:13:16.177 So, I mean, I kind of learned programming the same way. 00:13:16.177 --> 00:13:16.327 Right. 00:13:16.327 --> 00:13:17.827 You know, nobody taught me to program. 00:13:17.827 --> 00:13:18.127 It was like, 00:13:18.943 --> 00:13:19.063 Mario: Hm. 00:13:19.332 --> 00:13:20.712 Alan: read books and copied the other 00:13:20.712 --> 00:13:22.392 people's code until I knew 00:13:22.392 --> 00:13:22.962 how to do it. 00:13:23.022 --> 00:13:23.262 Right. 00:13:23.262 --> 00:13:24.072 So I guess, 00:13:24.912 --> 00:13:25.632 similar thing, it's 00:13:25.632 --> 00:13:27.432 just, I had less of a, I guess, 00:13:27.432 --> 00:13:27.912 less 00:13:28.242 --> 00:13:32.052 confidence in design, whereas, you know, code was always like this, 00:13:32.082 --> 00:13:32.622 this 00:13:32.742 --> 00:13:37.552 feels like my domain, whereas design, I don't know whether 00:13:37.592 --> 00:13:37.702 it. 00:13:39.187 --> 00:13:42.837 I guess it's not really gatekeepery or anything, but it feels 00:13:42.837 --> 00:13:43.527 like, you know, 00:13:43.587 --> 00:13:44.727 I Don't have permission to do 00:13:44.727 --> 00:13:45.327 it well, 00:13:45.357 --> 00:13:49.097 like I'm not the designer, so therefore, you know, but it's, I guess it's, 00:13:49.097 --> 00:13:49.797 same with anything else. 00:13:49.797 --> 00:13:51.327 If you do it, that's what you do, right. 00:13:51.418 --> 00:13:51.868 Mario: Yeah. 00:13:51.898 --> 00:13:52.168 Yeah. 00:13:52.407 --> 00:13:54.357 Alan: Don't need someone's permission to be a designer. 00:13:54.508 --> 00:13:56.788 Mario: you give yourself permission and just go for 00:13:56.788 --> 00:13:56.968 it. 00:13:57.448 --> 00:13:57.958 Yeah. 00:13:57.988 --> 00:13:58.098 It's 00:13:58.098 --> 00:14:01.778 just a step outside your comfort zone and that's how you grow. 00:14:01.778 --> 00:14:02.528 So, Yeah. 00:14:02.528 --> 00:14:03.218 You're right. 00:14:03.218 --> 00:14:04.118 same as programming. 00:14:04.118 --> 00:14:05.438 much of 00:14:05.438 --> 00:14:06.968 what I know about coding. 00:14:06.968 --> 00:14:07.958 I've learned it on my 00:14:07.958 --> 00:14:08.228 own. 00:14:08.228 --> 00:14:12.548 Reading and looking at other people's code and, and tinkering with things 00:14:12.548 --> 00:14:14.078 trial and error, all the time. 00:14:14.078 --> 00:14:16.568 So it's the same thing with design, I think. 00:14:16.568 --> 00:14:19.178 And then sometimes I look at some designs from actual 00:14:19.178 --> 00:14:21.218 designers and, they look amazing. 00:14:21.218 --> 00:14:22.718 I'm like, I can never 00:14:22.718 --> 00:14:25.568 do something like that, but you know, as long as we know, 00:14:25.568 --> 00:14:26.918 enough to make something. 00:14:27.107 --> 00:14:27.347 Alan: Right. 00:14:27.435 --> 00:14:28.275 Mario: User-friendly 00:14:28.275 --> 00:14:28.575 and 00:14:28.674 --> 00:14:29.004 Alan: Yeah. 00:14:29.034 --> 00:14:30.834 I mean, I have a folder on 00:14:30.834 --> 00:14:35.844 my desktop that I generally screenshot or anything that stands out in any way to 00:14:35.844 --> 00:14:37.884 me, like, oh, that that's, that's good. 00:14:38.138 --> 00:14:39.638 I'd screenshot and throw it in there. 00:14:39.638 --> 00:14:40.568 and, I. 00:14:41.358 --> 00:14:42.888 There probably is, but I've never looked over. 00:14:42.898 --> 00:14:46.188 She was a tool that I could organize the, I don't know, organize them, 00:14:47.388 --> 00:14:50.044 but make them more accessible to me as opposed 00:14:50.044 --> 00:14:50.134 to 00:14:50.134 --> 00:14:52.324 just a folder that I throw everything to. 00:14:52.324 --> 00:14:53.442 But one day I'll go back 00:14:53.442 --> 00:14:54.012 and, organize it. 00:14:54.012 --> 00:14:54.192 Right. 00:14:54.282 --> 00:14:55.212 Like my music library. 00:14:55.664 --> 00:14:56.174 Mario: Yeah. 00:14:56.234 --> 00:14:56.744 Yeah. 00:14:56.835 --> 00:14:58.545 Alan: But yeah, it's a, I think. 00:14:58.965 --> 00:15:03.680 Like anything, when you start paying attention to it, then you automatically 00:15:04.340 --> 00:15:05.480 start to get a little bit better. 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:07.160 Cause you start to question, why does that, look good? 00:15:07.160 --> 00:15:09.830 you know, what's the one thing, actually, this is a slight 00:15:10.670 --> 00:15:12.320 detail, but, it's a design tactic. 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:16.100 I've seen on a few websites now with, regarding to onboarding. 00:15:16.100 --> 00:15:21.095 So I've been as I said, I did some new modals for like when you arrive at 00:15:21.505 --> 00:15:24.951 DotPlan for the first time after signing up, up for accepting an invitation. 00:15:24.951 --> 00:15:28.063 And when you own a different one, when you go to the new check-in 00:15:28.063 --> 00:15:31.123 page for the first time, it just explains what the things are. 00:15:31.123 --> 00:15:36.749 So I probably will change to using one of those little pop up things, but they're 00:15:36.749 --> 00:15:40.439 expensive and I'll put that off for another day, at least for the moment. 00:15:40.472 --> 00:15:40.712 So. 00:15:41.852 --> 00:15:44.522 And looking at like onboarding modals and things. 00:15:45.122 --> 00:15:49.860 I noticed something with sign-ups and, and also like the, the 00:15:49.870 --> 00:15:52.960 onboarding or the signup process for some apps that I've seen. 00:15:54.400 --> 00:15:58.210 That looks really good and kind of as given me ideas for how I want to 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:01.330 do it, which is, you know, there's a multi-step process, like, you 00:16:01.330 --> 00:16:05.290 know, your name and then create an organization, which I have this idea, 00:16:05.290 --> 00:16:08.440 you know, you create your account and then if it's not an invitation, 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:09.910 you have to create a workspace. 00:16:09.940 --> 00:16:11.650 What's the workspace name or workspaces. 00:16:12.140 --> 00:16:14.690 You know, you're grouping, whether it's your company name or whatever. 00:16:14.722 --> 00:16:20.485 But I've seen three or four pages now that, on that, rather than give you just 00:16:20.485 --> 00:16:26.935 a white page with a form that she put a blurred out, somebody else's like demo 00:16:26.995 --> 00:16:29.395 page of the application behind the modal. 00:16:29.635 --> 00:16:32.179 So even at the sign-up things, you know, creating an account. 00:16:32.674 --> 00:16:35.584 They'll put like an example page of the application in 00:16:35.584 --> 00:16:36.079 progress. 00:16:36.079 --> 00:16:36.818 But then blow 00:16:36.818 --> 00:16:36.938 it 00:16:36.938 --> 00:16:41.588 out slightly and it looks really good as in like, you, you get 00:16:41.588 --> 00:16:44.618 an idea for what you're signing up for, not just a white page. 00:16:44.732 --> 00:16:45.902 You know you've read the landing 00:16:45.902 --> 00:16:48.542 page and you go to sign up and it just gives you a blank page, but it 00:16:48.542 --> 00:16:49.892 gives you like a, it feels like you're 00:16:49.892 --> 00:16:51.842 already inside the application, even though you're 00:16:52.142 --> 00:16:53.552 just a static signup page. 00:16:53.733 --> 00:16:54.693 Mario: You're signing up. 00:16:54.693 --> 00:16:55.607 Alan: So I'm kind 00:16:55.607 --> 00:16:58.127 of attempted to try and do that at some point when I 00:16:58.127 --> 00:17:02.942 have a spare afternoon to spare, I'm not busy not doing anything. 00:17:02.942 --> 00:17:03.231 But 00:17:03.307 --> 00:17:04.237 Mario: In your sleep. 00:17:04.611 --> 00:17:05.361 Alan: yeah, exactly. 00:17:05.467 --> 00:17:06.127 Mario: it in your sleep. 00:17:07.551 --> 00:17:07.971 Alan: So I 00:17:07.971 --> 00:17:10.971 think it might have a trailer that just because there is this multi-step 00:17:11.001 --> 00:17:12.291 process, you know, for signing up 00:17:12.331 --> 00:17:14.877 and I think it, it just looks, it feels 00:17:14.877 --> 00:17:18.697 nice as, you know, as you're signing up, it's like, oh, I'm already in it. 00:17:19.148 --> 00:17:19.568 Mario: Yeah. 00:17:19.778 --> 00:17:20.168 Yeah. 00:17:20.858 --> 00:17:23.228 Talking about design and onboarding. 00:17:23.678 --> 00:17:24.098 One of 00:17:24.098 --> 00:17:27.797 the one of the demos that I did I was showing the. 00:17:28.797 --> 00:17:30.867 The screen that comes up when you log in for the 00:17:30.867 --> 00:17:35.127 first time into a fusion cast, and I've created, if you 00:17:35.127 --> 00:17:40.137 remember this little graphic that shows boxes, that show recordings, 00:17:40.137 --> 00:17:40.347 go 00:17:40.415 --> 00:17:41.045 Alan: This is in there. 00:17:41.307 --> 00:17:43.017 Mario: and sessions go into podcasts. 00:17:44.157 --> 00:17:46.387 And I kind of explained a little bit there that's 00:17:46.387 --> 00:17:50.407 the extent of my onboarding at this point, you know, it's super simple. 00:17:50.407 --> 00:17:50.617 And, 00:17:50.617 --> 00:17:51.697 when I was explaining 00:17:51.697 --> 00:17:52.777 that and showing that. 00:17:53.867 --> 00:17:54.035 The 00:17:54.035 --> 00:17:58.655 person I, I, was doing the demo for she's like, are you an engineer? 00:17:59.255 --> 00:18:00.605 And I'm like, yes. 00:18:00.899 --> 00:18:01.199 Alan: Maybe. 00:18:03.245 --> 00:18:04.625 Mario: It's just like, Hmm. 00:18:04.715 --> 00:18:05.225 Okay. 00:18:06.305 --> 00:18:10.355 Because the way I'm presenting that, it's, it's just like, is this how things are 00:18:10.745 --> 00:18:12.425 structured in the database? 00:18:13.415 --> 00:18:13.895 Yeah, 00:18:14.149 --> 00:18:15.199 Alan: Yeah, he's putting into a box. 00:18:15.485 --> 00:18:16.655 Mario: Yeah, pretty much. 00:18:17.615 --> 00:18:18.605 It's just like, Hmm. 00:18:18.645 --> 00:18:19.065 Okay. 00:18:20.149 --> 00:18:20.839 Alan: Yeah, it's a giveaway. 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:21.109 Isn't it? 00:18:21.470 --> 00:18:21.950 Mario: Yeah. 00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:22.370 Yeah. 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:24.740 And she's a UX designer. 00:18:24.740 --> 00:18:27.950 So, I'm sure she's going to have a lot of 00:18:27.950 --> 00:18:31.026 feedback about that because she was already pointing out 00:18:31.026 --> 00:18:33.366 the fact that, I'm presenting this from an 00:18:33.366 --> 00:18:34.686 engineer perspective. 00:18:34.686 --> 00:18:35.916 And it's not necessarily 00:18:35.916 --> 00:18:39.456 the most user-friendly thing for someone, 00:18:39.456 --> 00:18:40.266 without a technical 00:18:40.266 --> 00:18:40.836 background. 00:18:40.836 --> 00:18:41.406 And so. 00:18:42.145 --> 00:18:43.225 Alan: Yeah, You got to be careful. 00:18:43.225 --> 00:18:44.515 I mean, it's so easy to 00:18:44.845 --> 00:18:48.835 expose your light database design in your forms and things just because 00:18:48.835 --> 00:18:49.885 that's the easiest way to do it. 00:18:49.885 --> 00:18:50.095 Right. 00:18:50.095 --> 00:18:52.795 And it's say, well, this is, this is one model and this is another, and 00:18:52.795 --> 00:18:54.475 therefore the different forms, right? 00:18:54.475 --> 00:18:57.745 When, you know, a lot of the time that the user doesn't care 00:18:57.745 --> 00:19:00.145 about that differentiation, if I take confuses them, you know? 00:19:00.145 --> 00:19:00.385 So, 00:19:00.426 --> 00:19:00.816 Mario: Yeah. 00:19:01.002 --> 00:19:02.622 Alan: I mean you have a reasonably clear. 00:19:03.977 --> 00:19:05.447 Terminology you using in 00:19:05.447 --> 00:19:05.867 terms of, 00:19:05.867 --> 00:19:08.484 like shows and episodes And things. 00:19:08.484 --> 00:19:08.734 so. 00:19:08.734 --> 00:19:08.878 Yeah. 00:19:08.898 --> 00:19:09.478 maybe there's some 00:19:09.478 --> 00:19:10.738 other way of visualizing it. 00:19:10.768 --> 00:19:11.728 That is, that 00:19:11.728 --> 00:19:14.488 is more in line with, this is a show and this is an 00:19:14.488 --> 00:19:15.208 episode, right? 00:19:15.208 --> 00:19:16.221 So even within 00:19:16.221 --> 00:19:18.359 like an example podcast player or something, you 00:19:18.619 --> 00:19:20.239 might be able to show something like that. 00:19:20.269 --> 00:19:20.995 So but yeah, 00:19:21.025 --> 00:19:23.245 but box is probably a little bit engineering, 00:19:25.465 --> 00:19:25.735 so. 00:19:27.122 --> 00:19:27.602 Mario: Yeah. 00:19:28.600 --> 00:19:29.230 Alan: Giving it away 00:19:29.892 --> 00:19:30.432 Mario: Yeah. 00:19:30.432 --> 00:19:35.772 And the, the whole mental model of, one thing goes inside another inside 00:19:35.772 --> 00:19:40.602 another, there's got to be a better way, but then again, you know, I'm 00:19:40.602 --> 00:19:47.315 not a UX designer, I'm not a designer, but yeah, I try I do my best. 00:19:47.859 --> 00:19:49.185 Alan: So one thing I I had, 00:19:49.271 --> 00:19:51.098 It had a couple of oh, are you okay for time? 00:19:51.098 --> 00:19:51.861 By the way, I 00:19:51.879 --> 00:19:52.648 Mario: Yeah, yeah. 00:19:52.663 --> 00:19:54.433 This one's going to be a short one, I guess. 00:19:54.514 --> 00:19:54.754 We'll. 00:19:54.754 --> 00:19:56.974 We'll have to wrap it up in about five to 10 00:19:57.308 --> 00:19:57.638 Alan: Okay. 00:19:57.758 --> 00:19:58.148 I'll be 00:19:58.148 --> 00:19:58.358 quick. 00:19:59.528 --> 00:20:02.314 So I had that interesting mentoring session. 00:20:02.314 --> 00:20:06.481 I had a couple of mentoring sessions at my coworking space over the past few weeks. 00:20:06.481 --> 00:20:09.885 yeah, They, they asked me to Invited to say, we've got these Japanese 00:20:09.885 --> 00:20:13.246 mentors coming in investors and you know, they have experience in 00:20:13.246 --> 00:20:13.966 marketing and things. 00:20:15.076 --> 00:20:17.266 Do you want this in Japanese? 00:20:17.266 --> 00:20:21.586 So one of us can help you if you speak some Japanese as well as kind of handy. 00:20:21.614 --> 00:20:25.410 So we kind of a combination of me plus one of the staff that I am 00:20:25.410 --> 00:20:26.970 friends with was helping translate. 00:20:27.840 --> 00:20:31.937 And so an interesting one this week she was got a lot of experience 00:20:31.937 --> 00:20:36.827 in terms of online marketing for games like mobile games and things. 00:20:37.197 --> 00:20:43.112 And so she was very helpful in looking at it from a Japanese company's 00:20:43.112 --> 00:20:44.623 perspective or at least to Japanese. 00:20:45.483 --> 00:20:47.128 SaaS users' perspective. 00:20:47.149 --> 00:20:50.614 And she's like, okay, now I can't really you know, you, you know, better than 00:20:50.614 --> 00:20:54.484 me marketing this to the world, but I can kind of give you some advice or 00:20:54.484 --> 00:20:57.124 ideas selling it to, to Japanese staff. 00:20:57.544 --> 00:21:01.851 And so there's two, I guess, main things, you know, one thing the onboarding 00:21:01.851 --> 00:21:06.413 is probably even more important here than it is you know, elsewhere. 00:21:06.473 --> 00:21:10.925 And I think I've mentioned this before that the non-Japanese users that have 00:21:10.955 --> 00:21:15.711 had on like on the beta and things were happy to play with it and figure 00:21:15.711 --> 00:21:19.401 it out on their own and almost want to figure out their own way of using it. 00:21:19.439 --> 00:21:24.042 Whereas Japanese staff, and she's like, you know, this, this is how it is. 00:21:25.182 --> 00:21:25.872 I'm telling you now. 00:21:25.872 --> 00:21:31.047 you need to change this, which is basically state how to use it. 00:21:31.077 --> 00:21:33.357 Not, not, you know, you could do this. 00:21:33.357 --> 00:21:35.787 No, this is how the application is used. 00:21:35.787 --> 00:21:37.467 You know, just be clear and direct. 00:21:37.647 --> 00:21:38.367 This is what you do. 00:21:38.787 --> 00:21:40.167 This is why you do it. 00:21:40.167 --> 00:21:40.947 And this is when you do. 00:21:41.013 --> 00:21:45.521 And plus just the onboarding you know, a modal is probably not enough. 00:21:45.521 --> 00:21:49.061 You just need step-by-step you need like, you know, do this here, do 00:21:49.061 --> 00:21:50.231 this there, and then click this. 00:21:51.281 --> 00:21:55.558 Do that and to go with that, give basically guidelines she called them i.e. 00:21:55.615 --> 00:21:59.474 Instructions so like eight for everything that you do have 00:21:59.474 --> 00:22:00.494 a question mark next to it. 00:22:00.494 --> 00:22:04.724 And it opens a help box, which is like, this is this, and this is how you do 00:22:04.724 --> 00:22:06.224 it in a step by step for each thing. 00:22:06.259 --> 00:22:10.422 She was like, you know, you might get a startup-y type users. 00:22:11.542 --> 00:22:14.332 Forgive that, and you know, that might understand that and be okay with it. 00:22:14.512 --> 00:22:19.252 But if you sell to any bigger company, you need that, but there's no option in the, 00:22:19.252 --> 00:22:22.642 it's kind of, you need a guideline for everything that you do in the application. 00:22:22.852 --> 00:22:23.692 You need instructions. 00:22:24.142 --> 00:22:27.762 I say, We've, I kind of knew this was. 00:22:28.202 --> 00:22:30.991 You know, we've been asked to do it before for other things I've done here. 00:22:30.991 --> 00:22:33.691 But for just be like, no, this isn't optional. 00:22:33.781 --> 00:22:34.471 You need this. 00:22:34.471 --> 00:22:38.401 If you sell to anybody above, you know, a smaller company that is more 00:22:38.611 --> 00:22:40.351 engineering kind of focused anyway. 00:22:41.521 --> 00:22:46.836 And I said, okay, so it's we've started it already. 00:22:46.836 --> 00:22:50.046 Cause we had some of them done for one of the customers we're working with here. 00:22:50.110 --> 00:22:51.411 But I guess we just need more. 00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:55.538 But one of the other things she mentioned that that made me there's this do it like 00:22:55.538 --> 00:22:59.618 the onboarding that the landing page and just the sales side of things was, you 00:22:59.618 --> 00:23:03.689 know, you know, one of my plans sooner rather than later, is to have integration 00:23:03.689 --> 00:23:08.009 with Slack primarily, and then potentially Microsoft Teams, just because that's big. 00:23:08.047 --> 00:23:13.117 Both in terms of reminders and also like, you know, digests for, you know, 00:23:13.117 --> 00:23:15.517 at the end of the day, after other people have checked in kind of pop 00:23:15.517 --> 00:23:17.077 up a digest, just something to keep. 00:23:18.277 --> 00:23:22.417 Regular and keep making sure people are involved with it and they can have 00:23:22.417 --> 00:23:25.867 visibility to what's going on and you might get a reminder to, you know, 00:23:25.867 --> 00:23:27.097 to check in and things like that. 00:23:27.136 --> 00:23:28.846 And she's like, that's good. 00:23:28.846 --> 00:23:31.396 But even if you don't have it yet say you're going to do it 00:23:31.396 --> 00:23:32.626 right at the top of your page. 00:23:32.656 --> 00:23:35.146 Because the first thing, when I see anything. 00:23:35.224 --> 00:23:40.415 Web, you know, an application about team communication or team even 00:23:40.415 --> 00:23:41.765 if it's asynchronous or anything. 00:23:41.975 --> 00:23:45.575 If I see the words, team and communication, I think, 00:23:45.575 --> 00:23:46.565 well, we'll just use Slack. 00:23:46.745 --> 00:23:48.325 It's just like, Oh, it's just teams. 00:23:48.635 --> 00:23:49.745 We don't need another thing. 00:23:50.045 --> 00:23:54.995 So by stating early on, as soon as possible on the page 00:23:55.025 --> 00:23:57.185 that you will be introducing 00:23:57.185 --> 00:24:01.175 integration with slack, our teams, it automatically raises the question of, 00:24:01.175 --> 00:24:05.025 well, if it integrates with slack, It must be something different. 00:24:05.535 --> 00:24:07.365 So without stating 00:24:07.365 --> 00:24:11.385 that you're kind of leaving open, that it might just be another slack 00:24:11.475 --> 00:24:12.105 kind of thing. 00:24:12.120 --> 00:24:13.791 So she's at a froze. 00:24:13.791 --> 00:24:14.421 You, even if you, 00:24:14.691 --> 00:24:17.961 if it's not ready yet, just say coming soon and slack integration and then 00:24:17.961 --> 00:24:19.971 link and explain what it will do, 00:24:20.211 --> 00:24:23.421 even if you don't, you know, it's another three months away or so, so 00:24:24.783 --> 00:24:25.293 Mario: Nice. 00:24:25.383 --> 00:24:25.653 Yeah. 00:24:25.653 --> 00:24:27.903 That's that sounds like pretty good advice. 00:24:28.563 --> 00:24:29.493 Sounds good to me. 00:24:29.811 --> 00:24:30.321 Alan: just because 00:24:30.351 --> 00:24:34.281 it's, again, it's in, I've had a few people say, oh, but we 00:24:34.281 --> 00:24:35.451 use Teams and it's like, Yeah. 00:24:35.451 --> 00:24:36.651 but that doesn't matter. 00:24:36.711 --> 00:24:37.251 This isn't, 00:24:38.301 --> 00:24:38.751 this isn't a 00:24:38.751 --> 00:24:39.231 chat app. 00:24:39.306 --> 00:24:40.236 It's something different. 00:24:40.536 --> 00:24:42.006 Well, yeah, but we have Teams. 00:24:42.306 --> 00:24:42.696 Yeah, 00:24:42.752 --> 00:24:43.142 Mario: Yeah, 00:24:44.706 --> 00:24:45.216 Alan: so, 00:24:45.242 --> 00:24:45.332 Mario: it. 00:24:45.816 --> 00:24:47.346 Alan: yeah, but by kind of 00:24:47.796 --> 00:24:48.426 being. 00:24:49.836 --> 00:24:51.126 Clear that, Yeah. 00:24:51.126 --> 00:24:51.576 That's good. 00:24:51.636 --> 00:24:52.026 You use 00:24:52.026 --> 00:24:54.966 Teams and you can use this with it for these reasons, and this 00:24:54.966 --> 00:24:56.676 will help with these things 00:24:56.706 --> 00:24:59.524 then hopefully that, that will clear that up. 00:24:59.614 --> 00:25:01.392 So that's, that's something I'm going to. 00:25:02.487 --> 00:25:07.107 I'm going to add to my landing page on my current redesigning kind of thing. 00:25:07.165 --> 00:25:09.287 And one last thing that they 00:25:09.347 --> 00:25:15.667 both her and the previous mentor mentioned was like your current persona 00:25:15.697 --> 00:25:17.987 of who you're targeting is way too wide. 00:25:18.076 --> 00:25:20.628 At least at this stage, just pick someone, pick an industry. 00:25:20.688 --> 00:25:24.078 It doesn't matter, you know, you know, engineers pick engineers and. 00:25:25.398 --> 00:25:26.194 Sell to them. 00:25:26.196 --> 00:25:31.881 At least at first, just because you without that your, I know this, and I've 00:25:31.971 --> 00:25:36.021 read this a million times a night, you know, a million, this isn't something 00:25:36.041 --> 00:25:37.551 it's frustrating because I know this. 00:25:37.551 --> 00:25:37.791 Right. 00:25:37.791 --> 00:25:39.921 But at the same time, it's really hard to do. 00:25:39.926 --> 00:25:42.356 Just because you, you think you're, but 00:25:42.566 --> 00:25:43.706 anybody can use this, right. 00:25:43.706 --> 00:25:46.436 So therefore I don't need to sell to a person, 00:25:46.436 --> 00:25:46.906 but with. 00:25:47.801 --> 00:25:48.041 Yeah. 00:25:48.071 --> 00:25:49.571 They're like, well, who'd you want me to introduce 00:25:49.571 --> 00:25:50.891 you to, and I'm like anybody. 00:25:51.101 --> 00:25:51.881 Oh, that's not good enough. 00:25:51.911 --> 00:25:55.001 Tell me which of my teams do you want me. 00:25:55.061 --> 00:25:55.931 to introduce you to? 00:25:56.321 --> 00:25:57.191 So by, you know, 00:25:57.521 --> 00:25:59.891 having it, even if it's narrow to something 00:25:59.891 --> 00:26:00.671 like, you know, 00:26:00.731 --> 00:26:03.431 creatives, even if it's, you know, designers or engineers 00:26:03.431 --> 00:26:05.081 or someone who's a creative in 00:26:05.081 --> 00:26:06.371 some way, well, that's enough. 00:26:06.551 --> 00:26:08.220 That's better than anybody. 00:26:08.268 --> 00:26:08.478 So, 00:26:08.719 --> 00:26:11.909 Mario: So narrow down, narrow down your target. 00:26:11.909 --> 00:26:15.113 It's still teams, but a specific kind of team, right? 00:26:15.323 --> 00:26:18.084 There's no specific maybe industry or 00:26:18.178 --> 00:26:18.448 yeah. 00:26:18.622 --> 00:26:18.832 Alan: yeah. 00:26:19.252 --> 00:26:21.922 And then, you know, she said, well, obviously that, that makes it easier 00:26:21.922 --> 00:26:23.902 then to target communities. 00:26:23.902 --> 00:26:24.082 Right. 00:26:24.082 --> 00:26:25.287 You know, you can go to a you, 00:26:25.287 --> 00:26:29.217 know, Reddit community or, you know, one of the slack or discord channels 00:26:29.217 --> 00:26:31.947 and be like, Hey, new tool for designers 00:26:32.937 --> 00:26:35.457 or for developers that are doing things. 00:26:35.457 --> 00:26:35.877 So, 00:26:35.937 --> 00:26:38.127 You know, without that you're just like, 00:26:38.507 --> 00:26:39.197 Here's a tool. 00:26:39.808 --> 00:26:40.258 Mario: Yeah. 00:26:40.427 --> 00:26:43.487 Alan: So, and again, even like saying just remote 00:26:43.487 --> 00:26:45.077 teams isn't enough anymore. 00:26:45.307 --> 00:26:49.667 Just cause that could be anybody you might, you know, that's not good enough 00:26:49.667 --> 00:26:49.937 So. 00:26:50.448 --> 00:26:51.498 Mario: That makes a lot of sense. 00:26:51.498 --> 00:26:55.848 And given the fact that you I'm assuming have more developers in 00:26:55.848 --> 00:26:58.488 your sphere or networks, right. 00:26:58.488 --> 00:27:02.268 that makes a lot of sense to target developers, designers, creatives. 00:27:02.652 --> 00:27:04.872 Alan: I mean, it's it's what I know. 00:27:04.872 --> 00:27:05.142 Right. 00:27:05.142 --> 00:27:10.002 So I it'd be really difficult for me to, and I've seen this with other startups 00:27:10.002 --> 00:27:10.842 I've worked with as well. 00:27:10.842 --> 00:27:13.902 If you start trying to sell to somebody who you don't 00:27:13.902 --> 00:27:15.612 have any experience working with, well, 00:27:15.972 --> 00:27:17.292 how are you building a product for them? 00:27:17.292 --> 00:27:18.912 How are you going to talk to them in their language? 00:27:18.912 --> 00:27:22.979 You can't, you know, it's unless you have a very close company 00:27:22.979 --> 00:27:23.909 that you can work with and 00:27:23.909 --> 00:27:24.689 learn from and build 00:27:24.689 --> 00:27:25.649 a case study from them. 00:27:25.649 --> 00:27:26.249 Well, okay. 00:27:26.249 --> 00:27:26.819 That's fair enough. 00:27:26.849 --> 00:27:30.269 But if you're just like, Sell to those people 00:27:30.269 --> 00:27:30.659 over there, 00:27:30.659 --> 00:27:32.009 then it's good. 00:27:32.699 --> 00:27:34.709 And it's frustrating, cause I know this and I 00:27:34.709 --> 00:27:35.189 should've 00:27:35.969 --> 00:27:36.959 done this before, but 00:27:36.989 --> 00:27:37.259 it's 00:27:37.269 --> 00:27:37.658 You know, 00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:40.799 Mario: yeah. 00:27:41.714 --> 00:27:42.584 That's the way it goes. 00:27:42.664 --> 00:27:43.834 No, that sounds great. 00:27:43.954 --> 00:27:46.234 I, I think that's really good advice. 00:27:46.298 --> 00:27:47.038 That's awesome. 00:27:47.098 --> 00:27:50.368 So you're going to be working on that and making some of those changes. 00:27:50.612 --> 00:27:54.572 Alan: Well, yeah, the, I mean, the, the first initial of the things I'm 00:27:54.572 --> 00:27:58.557 doing right now are I'm in paddle integration just because I, I don't 00:27:58.557 --> 00:27:59.967 want to leave that any longer. 00:27:59.967 --> 00:28:00.927 If I sign anybody 00:28:00.927 --> 00:28:05.097 up, you know, in two weeks time, I want the option for them to. 00:28:06.177 --> 00:28:06.517 pay, 00:28:07.162 --> 00:28:08.782 basically, it's, 00:28:08.782 --> 00:28:12.772 I've just got to get over that hurdle in terms of it being just, oh, it's 00:28:12.772 --> 00:28:14.692 an ongoing, ever beta right now. 00:28:14.722 --> 00:28:16.942 I, I w I want something where it's like, okay, it's 00:28:16.972 --> 00:28:21.322 it's version zero.one four, whatever that is, that's that, 00:28:21.352 --> 00:28:22.492 and you know, there's price. 00:28:22.492 --> 00:28:26.122 And if it's discounted, then that's good, but you know, it's an early version. 00:28:26.122 --> 00:28:28.072 So something that says, okay, now 00:28:28.072 --> 00:28:29.362 it's, we're launched. 00:28:29.380 --> 00:28:30.413 I'm desperate to do that. 00:28:30.473 --> 00:28:31.043 And then. 00:28:31.998 --> 00:28:32.568 Once that's 00:28:32.568 --> 00:28:33.318 working then. 00:28:33.558 --> 00:28:33.768 Yeah. 00:28:33.918 --> 00:28:34.278 I'm going to 00:28:34.758 --> 00:28:36.858 redo landing page 00:28:36.888 --> 00:28:38.598 and see what the, 00:28:38.638 --> 00:28:39.858 I mean, as we've said 00:28:39.858 --> 00:28:43.848 before, the, to do list of features is it's never going to disappear, 00:28:43.989 --> 00:28:46.569 Mario: Yeah, it's never ending for sure. 00:28:46.590 --> 00:28:50.030 Alan: And there's nothing, there's no nothing broken in the application and 00:28:50.030 --> 00:28:51.260 it's useful as it is. 00:28:51.260 --> 00:28:56.990 So therefore, you know, call it early access and let people in. 00:28:57.356 --> 00:28:58.046 Mario: go for it. 00:28:58.076 --> 00:28:58.736 Go for it. 00:28:58.736 --> 00:28:59.396 For sure. 00:29:00.356 --> 00:29:00.806 Yeah. 00:29:00.836 --> 00:29:01.166 so 00:29:01.187 --> 00:29:02.647 Alan: it's launched, then you can just grow it, right? 00:29:03.153 --> 00:29:04.053 Mario: yeah, yeah, 00:29:04.053 --> 00:29:05.763 So before we wrap up, we wrap it up. 00:29:05.775 --> 00:29:07.102 Just wanted to share, 00:29:07.118 --> 00:29:09.058 One quick thing about fusion cast. 00:29:09.542 --> 00:29:09.812 Alan: Yeah. 00:29:09.812 --> 00:29:10.262 You haven't 00:29:10.558 --> 00:29:11.278 Mario: I have 00:29:11.278 --> 00:29:12.988 been able to spend that much time working 00:29:12.988 --> 00:29:13.378 on it. 00:29:13.378 --> 00:29:15.728 But one thing that I, I did try, 00:29:15.731 --> 00:29:16.218 Was a 00:29:16.238 --> 00:29:17.948 new approach to recording. 00:29:17.948 --> 00:29:19.858 To try to eliminate that issue 00:29:19.858 --> 00:29:20.878 that, happens every now 00:29:20.878 --> 00:29:23.458 and then if, people close the browser in the middle of 00:29:23.458 --> 00:29:25.726 recording and I hit a dead end. 00:29:25.726 --> 00:29:33.142 So after that, I reevaluated and decided to put that on hold, because it's gonna 00:29:33.142 --> 00:29:35.342 take a lot longer to figure that out. 00:29:35.342 --> 00:29:36.482 It's going to take a long time. 00:29:36.482 --> 00:29:37.142 I want to. 00:29:37.546 --> 00:29:42.446 Focus on other areas instead where I can make improvements that are needed 00:29:42.446 --> 00:29:44.246 based on the feedback that I received. 00:29:44.246 --> 00:29:47.686 And I know I can make those happen a lot quicker and, show 00:29:47.686 --> 00:29:51.846 some progress and show that the product is improving and evolving. 00:29:51.846 --> 00:29:52.896 Even if I have this. 00:29:52.913 --> 00:29:56.191 One little thing lingering that I'm not comfortable with. 00:29:56.191 --> 00:29:58.561 It doesn't seem to be happening a lot. 00:29:58.561 --> 00:30:03.796 And if I educate users about the proper way of using the product and the proper 00:30:03.796 --> 00:30:08.836 way of ending a session, it will decrease the number of instances that happens. 00:30:08.836 --> 00:30:12.325 And also if that happens, I was thinking that I would, it would 00:30:12.325 --> 00:30:15.905 be better since I, wouldn't be working on, fixing that problem. 00:30:15.905 --> 00:30:16.965 I would, instead. 00:30:16.986 --> 00:30:21.966 As part of the other improvements, I would give users access to the backup recordings 00:30:21.966 --> 00:30:23.496 in case they need them. 00:30:23.496 --> 00:30:23.796 Right. 00:30:23.866 --> 00:30:24.846 So if this thing 00:30:24.846 --> 00:30:26.866 happens, they have access to the, backup 00:30:26.866 --> 00:30:28.116 recordings, themselves. 00:30:28.116 --> 00:30:32.822 And that kind of moves the needle a little bit and keeps the product evolving. 00:30:32.822 --> 00:30:35.462 and at some point I'll get around to working on 00:30:35.492 --> 00:30:36.662 this issue 00:30:36.776 --> 00:30:37.526 Alan: I think that's fair. 00:30:37.706 --> 00:30:37.916 Yeah. 00:30:38.126 --> 00:30:39.026 I think you, you could 00:30:39.026 --> 00:30:39.236 tie 00:30:39.236 --> 00:30:42.176 yourself up in knots for the next few months trying to, you 00:30:42.176 --> 00:30:44.096 know, rework how this works and 00:30:44.516 --> 00:30:47.936 You know, it, as you said, for 99% of times, it's not an issue. 00:30:47.936 --> 00:30:49.076 And, for that 1% 00:30:49.376 --> 00:30:50.636 while you've got a backup rate. 00:30:50.726 --> 00:30:51.201 So, 00:30:51.201 --> 00:30:54.568 You know, especially if you, as you say, improve the communication 00:30:54.568 --> 00:30:55.498 about how you're supposed to 00:30:55.498 --> 00:30:57.580 do it, then is there any way. 00:30:58.360 --> 00:31:01.060 Forcing a session to 00:31:01.600 --> 00:31:06.850 effectively finalize like in the UI, if it's left hanging maybe 00:31:06.894 --> 00:31:08.454 Mario: Yeah, that's what recovery mode is 00:31:08.454 --> 00:31:10.314 supposed to do, but. 00:31:10.343 --> 00:31:12.023 Alan: if it doesn't, is there some way of effectively 00:31:12.713 --> 00:31:14.003 like deleting that and 00:31:14.003 --> 00:31:15.533 saying, okay, this failed completely. 00:31:15.653 --> 00:31:19.883 So it's not just left as a, a spinning, like, like dead session in the 00:31:19.954 --> 00:31:22.484 Mario: Yeah, no, there's no way to do that right now. 00:31:22.484 --> 00:31:23.084 And I need 00:31:23.084 --> 00:31:24.344 to add that 00:31:24.433 --> 00:31:25.573 Alan: right But that's what I say. 00:31:25.593 --> 00:31:27.013 like sorting 00:31:27.023 --> 00:31:29.843 things like that out, Mike just, well, you know, they get, 00:31:29.843 --> 00:31:31.183 get rid of the niggly things. 00:31:31.484 --> 00:31:31.904 Mario: yeah. 00:31:32.034 --> 00:31:34.080 yeah, so that's what I decided to do. 00:31:34.080 --> 00:31:35.850 So I'm going to be focusing on these little 00:31:35.850 --> 00:31:36.420 things 00:31:36.449 --> 00:31:36.709 Alan: a good 00:31:36.930 --> 00:31:37.500 Mario: and move 00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:39.240 the product forward and, 00:31:39.332 --> 00:31:40.172 Hopefully I 00:31:40.172 --> 00:31:43.842 can, get to the point where I integrate billing and, start 00:31:43.842 --> 00:31:44.682 charging, you 00:31:44.682 --> 00:31:44.922 know, 00:31:46.366 --> 00:31:47.506 Alan: I mean, you're, you're right 00:31:47.506 --> 00:31:47.896 there too, 00:31:47.896 --> 00:31:48.166 you know, 00:31:48.166 --> 00:31:48.432 it's 00:31:48.432 --> 00:31:51.925 it's, it's an incredibly useful and usable and 00:31:52.105 --> 00:31:53.425 polished product, so 00:31:53.486 --> 00:31:54.847 get it launched and then improve. 00:31:55.507 --> 00:31:57.727 So same things What I'm trying to convince 00:31:57.727 --> 00:31:58.267 myself to do. 00:31:58.667 --> 00:31:58.897 Mario: Yeah. 00:32:00.517 --> 00:32:00.957 Thank you. 00:32:01.017 --> 00:32:05.104 Well, yeah, you're, you're almost there too, so Yeah, 00:32:05.182 --> 00:32:07.692 Alan: It feels like that's just the beginning. 00:32:07.722 --> 00:32:07.932 Right. 00:32:08.374 --> 00:32:08.674 Mario: Yeah, 00:32:09.302 --> 00:32:10.722 Alan: We finally got to the start line. 00:32:10.952 --> 00:32:11.322 There we go. 00:32:11.884 --> 00:32:12.364 Mario: yeah. 00:32:12.604 --> 00:32:12.904 Yeah. 00:32:14.824 --> 00:32:16.594 All right, cool. 00:32:16.744 --> 00:32:17.764 So should we 00:32:17.764 --> 00:32:18.514 wrap it up here? 00:32:18.882 --> 00:32:19.932 Alan: It sounds like you've got stuff. 00:32:19.932 --> 00:32:20.562 So, yes. 00:32:20.834 --> 00:32:21.124 Mario: Yeah. 00:32:21.424 --> 00:32:21.814 All right. 00:32:21.814 --> 00:32:23.434 So I'll see you in. 00:32:23.824 --> 00:32:24.274 Yeah. 00:32:24.454 --> 00:32:24.784 Yeah. 00:32:24.814 --> 00:32:26.164 Always, always a pleasure. 00:32:26.434 --> 00:32:28.294 I'll see you in a couple of weeks. 00:32:28.703 --> 00:32:28.943 Alan: Yep. 00:32:29.153 --> 00:32:29.513 Good luck. 00:32:29.513 --> 00:32:30.383 get your billing set up. 00:32:30.383 --> 00:32:31.403 That's my plan too. 00:32:31.403 --> 00:32:31.673 So. 00:32:31.804 --> 00:32:32.164 Mario: Yeah. 00:32:33.904 --> 00:32:34.294 Yeah. 00:32:34.324 --> 00:32:34.864 All right. 00:32:35.104 --> 00:32:35.614 Thanks. 00:32:35.683 --> 00:32:35.893 Alan: on. 00:32:36.103 --> 00:32:37.993 Take a good to good luck with the job on Monday as well. 00:32:38.023 --> 00:32:38.323 Hopefully all 00:32:38.323 --> 00:32:38.683 goes well, 00:32:38.959 --> 00:32:39.439 Mario: Thank you. 00:32:39.469 --> 00:32:39.949 Thank you. 00:32:41.239 --> 00:32:41.539 All right. 00:32:41.539 --> 00:32:42.049 Take care. 00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:42.699 Alan: Cheers man