{ "version": "1.0.0", "segments": [ { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "5.2", "endTime": "14.88", "body": "It's no secret we are all getting older. But how can we age well? Most older Australians say they prefer to age at home. But is this even possible?" }, { "speaker": "Lynette", "startTime": "15.6449995", "endTime": "29.325", "body": "One thing my husband and I have done before retiring is actually think about the things that we need done to our house while we're still earning money. And I think it would be really good for people like that, but also people that want to be independent and want to stay in their own home." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "29.88", "endTime": "44.68", "body": "Welcome to Help! I'm Ageing, a podcast from the National Centre of Healthy Ageing, Australia's leading healthy ageing research centre. We're tackling the big questions we face as we get older. I'm Tracy Parish, and together with co-host, Dr Taya Collyer." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "44.68", "endTime": "45.32", "body": "Hi, Tracy." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "45.405", "endTime": "63.22", "body": "Hi, Taya. We'll be talking with visionary researchers and people with living experience, sharing real stories, real evidence, real insights with you. And we'll discover new ways of thinking and find out how data and science can help you have a healthier future. How can we age well? Well, let's find out." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "63.22", "endTime": "65.62", "body": "But firstly, who are we? Taya, who are you?" }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "65.62", "endTime": "73.14", "body": "I am a medical statistician, Tracy, the lead biostatistician at the National Centre for Healthy Ageing, doing all the stats all the time." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "73.595", "endTime": "83.755", "body": "So impressive. I'm on the other side of the fence. I'm a journalist, Olympic broadcaster, turned medical research communicator, and now apparently a podcaster. What are we exploring today, Taya?" }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "83.755", "endTime": "94.69", "body": "Tracy, I am excited. Our special guest today is Associate Professor Libby Callaway, an occupational therapist who's doing some extremely important, extremely practical research. Welcome, Libby." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "94.69", "endTime": "97.25", "body": "Thanks so much, Taya and Tracy. Great to be here." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "97.73", "endTime": "104.225", "body": "If you were to summarise your entire research profile in three or four words, what would you pick?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "104.945", "endTime": "114.625", "body": "I really look together with people with lived experience and living experience at the intersection of housing, technology, and support that they might use in their day to do the activities they want to do." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "114.945", "endTime": "117.81", "body": "Yes. That sounds capital U useful." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "119.73", "endTime": "140.165", "body": "Libby, we are going to concentrate today about the preference by most Australians. We're hearing over 80 percent of Australians according to the Australian Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety. That's a very long word. But we're hearing that they really do want to stay at home. But what's the reality? We know how hard that is at the moment, and how have you got involved in that research?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "140.54001", "endTime": "167.865", "body": "You're absolutely right, Tracy. People want to stay living where they want to live and who they want to live with. And so a lot of our research that we're doing in partnership with the National Centre for Healthy Ageing is really focusing on how we can give people knowledge and information so they can make choices that can enable them to live in the community for as long as they'd like to. So particularly in our team, and I work in a research centre called the Rehabilitation, Ageing, and Independent Living Research Centre at Monash University." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "167.865", "endTime": "172.70001", "body": "Another big long word. Oh, it is. We call ourselves the Rail Research Centre. A little bit easier. That's much easier." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "172.94", "endTime": "197.515", "body": "We don't look at trains. We look at housing. We look at technology. We look at how people can use that in their lives. So we look particularly with older adults, people that maybe are born with disability or might be ageing into disability or acquire disability. And we talk to them about the activities they want to do, and we are building research and evidence of how we can give them the best information, the best products, the best services at the right time to get the outcomes they want." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "198.08", "endTime": "219.67499", "body": "Okay. So it's often said that this equipment is all about giving older adults better outcomes in their home. And I think what we're often afraid to talk about is what is a bad outcome? And Libby, I'm sure you can help us understand that what are the disasters that we're trying to prevent with this technology? What can go wrong if you're in your home and you're not safe?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "219.67499", "endTime": "246.14502", "body": "It's such a good question, Taya. So I've worked for 30 years as an occupational therapist, and I've seen the best outcomes, and I've seen the worst. And, I mean, some examples of what you're talking about are things like someone that's living home alone, they have a fall, they have a very significant fracture, end up in hospital, and they just can't go back home. So they end up going into an aged care facility or they get stuck in hospital without an option of where to go back to. So that's one example." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "246.38501", "endTime": "273.305", "body": "I think another one, and this is a lot of my work even to this day, is, you know, older parents looking after people that might be born with disability and then are ageing with that disability. And then when those parents are no longer available, that adult goes into crisis. Where do I live now? Who do I live with? And where do I get my support from? So if we can be on the front foot with that sort of planning, then we are gonna see good outcomes and not those very distressing crisis driven outcomes." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "273.305", "endTime": "285.86002", "body": "Yeah. And, I mean, what you're talking about there, a fall with a with perhaps a hip fracture or a head strike. Mhmm. You know, that's your whole life transformed in an instant. Right? That's an ... as you say, some people don't return to their own home." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "286.02", "endTime": "289.38", "body": "Absolutely. Or they don't return to their same level of functioning at all." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "289.38", "endTime": "293.86", "body": "Okay. Yeah. So it's worth, you know, get the drill out and let's make some modifications." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "295.035", "endTime": "322.26", "body": "Later on, we're going to talk more about the Simulation Facilities and the cutting-edge research that's underway down at Seaford in Victoria. But I want to drill down a little bit. I know we do, Taya don't we. We wanna talk more about from a person's point of view, if they're listening to the podcast today, maybe they've got a parent that is in a bit of denial about the fact that they're getting older themselves or maybe it is the person actually in denial. And I say that because we all think we're, you know, really fit and and we'll be fine." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "322.26", "endTime": "338.055", "body": "In fact, we had a friend in his sixties. I won't 'out' him, but he fell off a ladder recently, and he's ended up in hospital. It's about thinking that we can do things easily, as we get older. But the reality is that doesn't necessarily mean we can stay at home for longer." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "338.63", "endTime": "366.405", "body": "We do know from the latest data that in the next 20 or so years, we're gonna have over 20 percent of the Australian population are gonna be aged 65 years, and they're going to spend between the last 10 to 20 percent of their lives living with age-related disability, if not other age-related health conditions, that mean that they really need to make proactive and really informed choices about how they set up their life now to get the best out of life right through to the end of life." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "366.73", "endTime": "380.17", "body": "Okay. Jargon alert. I am a ... this is not really not my specialty, which is so interesting. What is age-related disability? Because I can hear the people out there cringing. Like, what does that actually mean for in someone's life?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "380.19498", "endTime": "392.755", "body": "It's a great question, Taya, and it's ... I guess it's something that if you think about your own body, what you notice is over time, if you've played a lot of sport or if you've been doing particular activities that are heavy, like heavy lifting in work ..." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "392.91498", "endTime": "394.30002", "body": "Working outdoors or whatever." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "394.30002", "endTime": "404.7", "body": "Absolutely. You'll find that your body starts to experience wear and tear, and that's age-related disability. It's actually those conditions that develop over time, often slowly. Right. And then..." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "405.1", "endTime": "411.875", "body": "Right. So this isn't like I've fallen over and I've broken something. This is a a slower, a gradual process that's inevitable." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "411.875", "endTime": "437.92502", "body": "Absolutely. And a really concrete example of that that probably many of your listeners will know is something like osteoarthritis. We put wear and tear on our joints, and we end up with arthritis over time. And that can affect the way we hold items. It can affect the strength in our joints, pain levels, and it means that we really need to be thinking proactively about how we plan out our home, how we plan out our activities so we can keep doing the things we want to do for a long time." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "437.92502", "endTime": "443.125", "body": "Yeah. So this is fundamental. This is like, can I get my own shoes on? Can I open my jar of pickles? Yep." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "443.125", "endTime": "449.20502", "body": "Can I look after the grandkids? Can I go and do that volunteer role that I absolutely love doing that brings me in contact with other people?" }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "449.20502", "endTime": "449.685", "body": "Yeah. Okay." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "449.93", "endTime": "469.14502", "body": "And the other thing is people are being asked to work longer at the moment because even down to, you know, the pension, the Age Pension, it you know, it's 67 now. So if you're a tradie or you're a nurse or someone who's been on their feet for decades now that they've worked like that, that must affect them just having to work longer." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "469.225", "endTime": "486.91", "body": "Absolutely. So, and we want people to be working for as long as they want to work. So that's the other exciting thing is actually there's things you can do that can keep you working into older adulthood, that can keep you with lower levels of pain into older adulthood. So this is really about that positive lens of let's build on those strengths. Let's get really good outcomes." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "486.91", "endTime": "487.79", "body": "What are they?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "487.95", "endTime": "521.15", "body": "So for example, if you want to keep walking and you're finding that you're getting a little bit less stable on your feet or a bit more pain in joints, you can start to think about, well, what equipment might help me out to keep doing my long walks, not just short walks within the house? So that might be simple things like a single point walking stick, just those standard walking sticks that you see at the chemist. Or it could be thinking about actually continuing to do steps but putting in place a grab rail on the steps so that you can do them really safely, keep your leg strength up by getting up and down those steps to your front door each day for as long as possible." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "521.31", "endTime": "541.27", "body": "Okay. Yeah. So the single pointed stick, the grab rail on the stairs, those are things that we see in the homes of the older older adults that we love. But I know for a fact there are people out there who've been told that they should be using a walking stick, and they are refusing to do it. And there is ... I am the least qualified person at this table to speak to this experience." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "541.27", "endTime": "550.95", "body": "As you can tell listeners, I'm about 12 years old. But, why is that? What is this thing that's wrapped around this support this supportive equipment? People don't wanna go there." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "551.365", "endTime": "561.925", "body": "Think it's a really good question, Taya, and it's probably quite different for different people. And it is a conversation you have to have, like, what would you be willing to think about now that's gonna help you to do the activities you wanna do?" }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "561.925", "endTime": "567.05005", "body": "What a great way to frame the question rather than like, mum, why haven't you got the stick? Mum, where's your stick?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "567.05005", "endTime": "567.37006", "body": "Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "567.37006", "endTime": "568.25", "body": "Yeah. Okay." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "568.25", "endTime": "584.08496", "body": "Absolutely. And I think, you know, we know that humans are really social beings. So over our lifetime, if we can keep doing activities that keep us connected to other people, we're gonna get really good health outcomes regardless of if we've got significant pain or if we've got arthritis, for example." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "584.08496", "endTime": "595.20496", "body": "Yeah. But that supportive equipment, it signifies something. Right? It signifies a deterioration or a loss. That's my assumption. Do either of you have experience that that confirms or repeats that?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "595.26", "endTime": "604.78", "body": "Maybe it does for some. I've also spoken to people that use this sort of equipment that say it's their superpower. It's their, it's their cape that they put on. Yes. That allows them to fly, basically." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "604.94", "endTime": "605.98", "body": "That's so great." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "606.38", "endTime": "651.785", "body": "And on the other side, like, when my mum was getting older and she ended up with dementia and she ended up in a facility, because she needed that care. But in the lead up, I remember going to one of those, they're like a store, a shop, whatever you could call it. And the range of equipment looks just like a hospital. There is nothing snappy about them. I mean, I'm thinking, can't some designers get behind this and somehow make it that it's much more groovy. Yeah. I mean, we're talking in a football mad city of Melbourne. Can you not ... can you not get, like, a walking stick that's, you know, perhaps in your club colours? You know, can we think outside the square? Because I've gotta say, I find the equipment's grey or it's black or it's white." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "651.785", "endTime": "653.865", "body": "It's plastic. That weird yellow color?" }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "653.865", "endTime": "668.11", "body": "Oh, yeah. I mean, are you sensing that, Libby? Does anybody say that? I mean, some of the women I've met, they really look after themselves. They're quite stylish, and yet you're asking them to carry around something that just ages them by 15 years." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "668.51", "endTime": "681.545", "body": "Such a good point, Tracy. Well as you know, we call these equipment assistive technology, and we talk about trying to pimp your assistive technology. Yeah. We want people to really sort of style it up, and there's lots of choices now. There are lots of choices out on the market." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "681.545", "endTime": "706.175", "body": "And with the international market, some of these products can now be bought online that give you that choice of design as well as the products you can go in and find at a shop. Mhmm. Some of them are the very traditional design, but you can definitely shop around and look for things that really match your style, your colour preference. You know, I'm dressed in all blue today, listeners. Blue is my favourite colour, and my assistive technology, my equipment would be blue and pink, actually." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "706.175", "endTime": "710.495", "body": "But what if you don't have the money? Yes. Is that available through the Support At Home program?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "711.35", "endTime": "734.575", "body": "So, look, there are some fantastic government programs around for assistive technology now. For example, for people that have very significant disability in Australia, they might be eligible for what's called the National Disability Insurance Scheme. For people aged over 65, we've got the Supported Home Program for Older Australians, and that's just had a big, big revamp. And it does have an assistive technology and home modifications program that sits in that scheme." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "734.93", "endTime": "749.41", "body": "So for people aged over 65 or even a bit younger, if you're an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person, you can get access to funding within your support plan. But this funding is focused on helping you to stay living safely and independently at home." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "749.705", "endTime": "752.745", "body": "You're making it sound fairly easy. Is it that easy?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "752.825", "endTime": "795.84", "body": "It's certainly been a big reform. We saw a new Age Care Act come in last November, and there have been lots of changes to the assistive technology and home modifications program in that scheme. It actually is very clear. The guidelines on the website are very straightforward. There's ways you can get amounts of money put into your aged care plan that allow you to then go and purchase that equipment. It's really clear on that website too, and it's something for your listeners to think about, is that some of that equipment you can just purchase from the local shop you like you described for your mum, but some of it you do need advice, and some of it you even need it to be prescribed by someone else like a physiotherapist or occupational therapist. And if you don't get that advice, you'll probably find you don't get the right fit of equipment that's gonna meet your goals and needs." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "795.84", "endTime": "800.4", "body": "And what does that mean? Like, what so someone who's got the, quote, wrong equipment. Like, what's an example?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "800.4", "endTime": "810.195", "body": "Yeah. So for example, if you were thinking about buying a walking stick like we talked about earlier and you bought one that wasn't height adjustable and you're 6 foot 2 it's actually not gonna work for you because it'll be too short." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "810.195", "endTime": "811.15497", "body": "It might even cause you to fall." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "811.15497", "endTime": "833.63995", "body": "Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. So thinking about what are my goals, what are my needs, and how can this equipment best help me to do what I need to do sometimes takes that bit of advice, and we call that the good practice steps. Actually getting your practice right so you get the best outcome when you're using this equipment at in home or when you go to paid work or volunteer work or when you're looking after the grandkids." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "834.14496", "endTime": "835.90497", "body": "Who's your first point of call?" }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "835.90497", "endTime": "836.46497", "body": "Yeah. Where do I get this sweet advice?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "838.625", "endTime": "880.69", "body": "It's a great question. So for older adults, certainly calling up My Age Care and actually talking to them about the need for an assessment for assistive technology or home modifications, that equipment or the changes to your home is the first step. And then you'll go through a process of assessment where you'll be able to talk to an assessor about your goals and needs, and then there'll be a plan put together. Now with the New Age Care Act, there is means testing that sits behind that, so you may need to co contribute, put in some money to the cost of your equipment, but it really is worth going through that process if you are thinking that there might be some needs you have that could be addressed through some small home modifications or through some equipment." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "880.69", "endTime": "882.45", "body": "And what kind of needs are we talking about?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "882.45", "endTime": "896.785", "body": "Well, again, the sky's the limit. And Tracy just touched on the fact that her mother had dementia. So, you know, there's a whole area of of assistive technology or equipment that actually looks at cognitive support, that the remembering things, the planning things, the initiating things." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "897.105", "endTime": "927.785", "body": "So that's a lot of my work in my team has been talking to people that are living with cognitive changes. So living with memory problems, living with planning and organisation problems perhaps because of an acquired brain injury or dementia, and actually talking to them about how can we use technology in your home or when you travel out of your home for you to be able to remember the things that you need to do, like remembering to take your medication at 9AM or for you to be able to initiate getting to that doctor on time, booking the taxi with the doctor, those sorts of things." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "927.785", "endTime": "956.815", "body": "Right. And when you say technology, you're not talking about IT and and electronic devices necessarily, or are you? That is one option. So we have both electronic and non-electronic or low-tech or no-tech equipment that can help with that memory and thinking support. So we're very lucky these days in that there is technology you can buy off the shelf like, you know, some of the home assistants like a Google Home or Amazon Alexa. That actually can very easily with voice commands set up a reminder. You know?" }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "956.815", "endTime": "961.12", "body": "Hey. Hey, Siri. Remind me to take my medication at 9AM each day." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "961.36005", "endTime": "986.095", "body": "You've talked about the physical side, but then there's the cognitive. And in our example with our mum, there is a clock. I can't give out the brand name, but it was able to help her in her everyday living until she ended up in a needing, you know, bigger help, through a facility. And it showed just the time and the date. It had said today is Wednesday, and they're the things that people forget." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "986.48004", "endTime": "1014.095", "body": "Tracy, that's a great example. Those orientation clocks, and there's many of them on the market, they're really fantastic simple low-tech tools where you set and forget, and it allows the person to orient themselves to whether it's morning or afternoon, what the day is, what the date is, what the year is. And that can be really helpful. Other examples are things like voice commands. You can set up on your mobile phone a very simple voice command, you know, tell your phone to remind you at 9AM each morning to take your medication." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1014.39", "endTime": "1028.23", "body": "That can be the difference between you needing a family member to be calling you or standing right next to you to say take your medication and you being able to use that technology in a very simple and sort of well set up manner that every day at 9am that that alert goes off." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "1028.655", "endTime": "1047.0299", "body": "I want to pivot now to the research that's underway at the National Centre for Healthy Ageing, particularly down at Seaford. And in particular, before we get to the Simulation Facilities themselves, tell me more about the Ageing Well Clinics because I think that is a great idea for people who aren't even thinking yet that they need some support." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1047.19", "endTime": "1102.23", "body": "So the Ageing Well Clinics really serve two purposes. Number one, we're trying to offer no cost, time limited interventions that can make a difference to the health and quality of life of older adults or people living with disability, but we also are trying to train our future allied health workforce. So Monash University has a School of Primary and Allied Health Care where we train speech pathologists, occupational therapists, physiotherapists, podiatrists, social workers to become those graduate health professionals. So what we've done with the National Centre for Healthy Ageing Ageing Well Clinics is we've brought together that perfect combination of let's talk to the community about what sort of things they would like to learn more about, and then let's set up a sort of clinic model. So a couple of visits a week, seven weeks in total, where you can come along and get that input from a clinic where we have clinicians supervising our Monash University students to deliver those time limited services through the Ageing Well Clinics." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "1102.23", "endTime": "1115.6649", "body": "And recently, I got to see one of those clinics underway, and I met a lovely couple, who were having a little bit of trouble with mobility and balance. And interestingly, they said they were recommended to go to that clinic, Mhmm. That they'd had some sort of assessment. What was that?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1115.665", "endTime": "1146.485", "body": "We're seeing fantastic uptake from local GP practices where they're meeting people and saying, look. You know, we're noticing, you know, you've had a fall in the last year or you're finding it more difficult to stay on your feet. And so they are saying, why don't you go along to this clinic? And the most exciting thing about the NCHA, the National Centre for Healthy Ageing Ageing Well Clinics, is they're actually based at the St Kilda Footy Club in Seaford. So that was one of our really significant visions was that we wanted to locate the National Centre for Healthy Ageing Ageing Well Clinics in community settings." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1146.485", "endTime": "1163.8899", "body": "So we've developed a centre there called the Healthy Futures Hub in partnership with St Kilda Football Club and other community-based health, wellbeing, aged care partners. We're all under the one roof, including Monash University with the NCHA, and it allows us to actually run these Ageing Well Clinics embedded in community." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1164.0499", "endTime": "1189.01", "body": "Okay. Rewinding just a just a minute. You mentioned a lot of what we call Allied Health disciplines, and I've been working in ageing research for more than five years, and I've got my head around what that means. But I think there might be people out there who don't know what is an occupational therapist. How can they help me? What is a speech pathologist? How can they help me? Can you enlighten us a bit on that allied health? Because that's who's in the clinics. Right?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1189.01", "endTime": "1197.73", "body": "That's right. Yeah. Taya, you're absolutely right. I've been an occupational therapist for 30 years now, and I still have colleagues that think I'm an occupational health and safety worker. Oh, yes." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1198.0499", "endTime": "1199.01", "body": "Where's your high vis?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1199.6749", "endTime": "1223.12", "body": "So occupational therapists are one of the Allied Health disciplines, and I'll explain a few of them now. Yep. So firstly, occupational therapists is, a four year undergraduate degree or a two years Master's degree and really looks at goal setting with people around the activities they want or need to do in their day. Now that's from getting up and getting showered through to getting out the front door, getting in the car, and getting to work. So the whole spectrum." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1223.12", "endTime": "1253.6799", "body": "We work with people of all ages, children, right through to older adults, and across both hospital and community settings. So particularly the Ageing Well Clinics, occupational therapists are central to that supervision model of our students talking to older adults or people with disability about their goals, assessing their current level of support need, their current level of participation, and then looking at ways that we can offer targeted information, targeted interventions that can help people to either be more independent or more safe in the tasks they do." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1253.6799", "endTime": "1262.3451", "body": "Right. So you're not focusing on a particular condition or disease. You're really all about, can you do what you want to do? And if not, how do we help?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1262.3451", "endTime": "1281.0599", "body": "It's all about functioning and building functioning in areas people want to do so. So one of the Ageing Well Clinics that we run is called the Maintaining Independence at Home Clinic, and we were really fortunate to connect with Anna and her mum, and her mum agreed to volunteer to come along to this clinic for the first block that we trialed. And here's Anna's story. It's incredible." }, { "speaker": "Anna", "startTime": "1281.2999", "endTime": "1358.94", "body": "So my mother attended one of the clinics, the first one that was being run a test situation. She was helping the students as much as getting some valuable information that she didn't necessarily think that she needed. She didn't think she was there, but she has always been very strong about remaining and staying at home to live independently. So she shared the information with me, and I was getting tips that have really come to fruition now because it's incredible how quickly things can change. And she had a couple of months of medical incidents that happened. She was in and out of hospital. Her energy levels went down. Before that incident, of the Ageing Well Clinic that she had attended, we started getting some rails in place at home. And once we had those, if we hadn't had them, when she got home, she couldn't have actually remained at home on her own. And she has even said, that's the best money that we've spent. I'm so grateful that we've got those, and they give me so much more confidence being able to remain at home. And the rails aren't just in the bathroom and the shower and the toilet, but it's also the step that comes up from the garage. It's enabling her to keep her day-to-day life going, and also it's giving our family the knowledge and the confidence that she actually is okay at home." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1360.9401", "endTime": "1364.9401", "body": "Wow, what a crystal clear demonstration of the value of the things that you've been sharing with us, Libby." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1365.7849", "endTime": "1377.5449", "body": "And you've done more than just, like, take over at this St Kilda Football Club premises. Right? I understand there is a new building, an Independent Living Laboratory that is opened onsite. What's going on there?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1377.5449", "endTime": "1403.415", "body": "Yeah. Taya, this is really exciting. It's a bit of a dream, I think, for our team at the National Centre for Healthy Ageing and Frankston City Council allowed us to literally co-design and put in place a visitable demonstration house, a house that you can come and visit. You can look at housing design. You can think about technology that might be used in your everyday activities, and it's in the playground of the Healthy Futures Hub in Seaford. It's at Belvedere Reserve." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1403.415", "endTime": "1405.8151", "body": "Okay. So it's like a pretend house?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1406.07", "endTime": "1432.425", "body": "It pretty much is. You can walk up either via a one in 14 gradient ramp or by some steps on the other side depending on your preference and your abilities, and you can come and visit us. So we've got staffing there. And, again, this will be all research evaluation undertaken in real time with the consent of people that arrive to actually say to them, come on in. Tell us what your goals and needs are. Let's go through some questions, and then let's look around at this really interesting Independent Living Laboratory." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1432.425", "endTime": "1440.82", "body": "Right. So rather than just talking about these issues, people can actually do the things in the house and then and decide what's gonna work best for them?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1440.82", "endTime": "1442.6599", "body": "That's exactly right, Taya." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "1442.74", "endTime": "1448.5", "body": "This is what Ben had to say after visiting the lab recently with colleagues from Wallara, a disability organisation." }, { "speaker": "Ben", "startTime": "1448.865", "endTime": "1466.84", "body": "We tested out some of the equipment behind me. It was pretty good actually, testing out the equipment. We also went on the other playground as well, the one that's being recently built. So it was pretty good actually. It's pretty good to see like how we include people in this, space and very inclusive and all that." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "1467.2401", "endTime": "1471.8", "body": "Recently, you took Lynette through. I got to meet Lynette. Tell me about her reaction." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1471.8", "endTime": "1508.505", "body": "Yeah. Look. Lynette is a perfect example of someone who's living in the community as an older adult and saying, look. Things are going well for me at the moment, but similar to Anna's mum, things can change quickly. And so Lynette came along to the lab and met with me as an occupational therapist, and we talked together about how things are going for her at home, what her daily and weekly activities look like, and then I took her through the lab. We looked at different spaces like the lounge room and kitchen design, the bedroom design, the bathroom design, and we were able to talk through some really simple low-cost options that might just really help her to remain living at home." }, { "speaker": "Lynette", "startTime": "1508.585", "endTime": "1537.4149", "body": "I actually think the facility is amazing. So for people to be able to come in and see these ideas put into practice rather than just people talking about them and things like that. Like, I love the sink that goes up and down. I think that would be really, really helpful. And the laundry with the tap on the front, because I think as I even, you know, like I'm getting arthritis in my hands and I think things like that would be really, really helpful." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "1537.815", "endTime": "1551.2299", "body": "And what really resonated is just the success of that co-design. Now, we banded that around in research. Explain what that means with that community engagement and how they perhaps changed your perspective early in the research project." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1551.39", "endTime": "1591.01", "body": "We did a fantastic piece of work with the Monash Art Design and Architecture team and our School of Primary and Allied Health Care with the National Centre for Healthy Ageing. We ran a really large scale co-design workshop with community members, people of all ages, people of all abilities, providers of services to them, funders of services to them were there as well. And we talked to them about if we were to hit this 'blue sky' goal and actually build this housing demonstration in a playground at St Kilda Football Club, what would you want it to do for you? What would you want it to do for your family member? And we were able to hear from them this tension that exists between I want my home to be my home." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1591.285", "endTime": "1623.885", "body": "I wanna stay living where I am. I wanna do the things I wanna do, but I also wanna know what the future could look like and how I keep my home working for me over time. So there was this really fantastic conversation we had in the workshop around the tension between a home and a lab and that actually we need to get evidence, we need to actually really create research that's going to drive new ways of delivering information and equipment and home modifications to people But we also need to do it in a space where people feel like, yes. This could apply in my own life." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1623.885", "endTime": "1636.41", "body": "I was going to ask, like, I'm imagining a glass fronted, very ritzy, fancy looking house. Like, this is relevant to everyone's home. Right? This is not just your fancy architecturally designed premises." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1636.41", "endTime": "1642.5701", "body": "You're spot on, Taya. It's very much got those spaces that you could imagine would be in your own home or may just look like your own home." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1642.5701", "endTime": "1643.05", "body": "Okay." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1643.05", "endTime": "1672.86", "body": "Yeah. Just talking about the glass, I'm gonna tell you a little story. We were really fortunate to work with the Boon Wurrong Land Council on this design and thinking about culturally safe approaches to delivering demonstration laboratories in playgrounds where there may be artifacts. There may be other traditional sort of or cultural considerations. And one of the most powerful things that has come out into the design of the of the Independent Living Laboratory is this beautiful glass window that looks out over the playground." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1673.145", "endTime": "1705.1749", "body": "And that came from one of the elders of the Boon Wurrong Land Council who said to me, if you're gonna build demonstration housing, what I want is I wanna sit and watch my grandchildren play. And what it's become is actually this lab allows us to not only invite people to come and visit, but it also allows us to look out over a new intergenerational playground that's been built by the National Centre for Healthy Ageing. And we've now got this incredible interaction between those two pieces of infrastructure. And you're seeing it being used already. It is being used so often already." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1705.1749", "endTime": "1747.17", "body": "We literally opened it last week, and we've got people knocking on the door wanting to come in and have a look at what's going on. We had did a fantastic piece of work last week with Wallara Disability Services. They're an NDIS provider. They also run the social enterprise cafe at St Kilda Football Club's Healthy Futures Hub. So we had some NDIS participants come and visit the lab and it was really great to talk to them because they had a really broad range of questions. Some of those participants use manual or power wheelchairs to move around. Some of them are walking independently, but talking about how some of their goals are actually moving from maybe the family home where they were born and grew up to now being a young adult and thinking about what is my future housing gonna be, particularly if mom and dad aren't available anymore?" }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1747.17", "endTime": "1763.265", "body": "You know what I've been thinking about this whole time is IKEA. Well, I love going to IKEA because I always say it's a place where adults can dream. You can wander around there and think, what do I want? What what would you know, how would I like my life to feel?" }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1765.185", "endTime": "1773.7399", "body": "And that's what I'm getting from these stories is that that's the that's the vibe. It's a place where people of all ages can go and dream about what might be possible." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1773.9", "endTime": "1778.62", "body": "100 percent, Taya. But have you ever had that feeling in IKEA where you're just overwhelmed by the amount of choice?" }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1778.94", "endTime": "1779.26", "body": "Yeah. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1779.26", "endTime": "1790.645", "body": "Every time. And so that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to really help people to see all the choices that are available, but then have really, really good conversations that will help them to make choices and decisions that are gonna help them into the future." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "1790.805", "endTime": "1799.74", "body": "What do you want to do with the research? I mean, you're gathering all this information. Are you trying to change policy? Are you trying to change practice? And what are they?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1800.22", "endTime": "1833.24", "body": "Such a good question, Tracy. I think about this often, and there's so much we can do with this research. I guess one of my goals as a researcher, I've been working now 30 years with people that have either experienced an age-related condition or they've been living a life and something's changed, and suddenly their choice about where they live and who they live with is no longer there. And we know Australia's been a signatory to something called the UN Convention on the Rights of People with Disability. It says that people should be able to choose where they live and who they live with, but we know that that really doesn't happen for many Australians." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1833.24", "endTime": "1880.59", "body": "So what I'm hoping is that through the National Centre for Healthy Ageing Independent Living Laboratory is that people are going to have more knowledge, and we know knowledge is power. They're going to have more information that they can take away to use in their own lives or to help their family member to think about. And back to Taya's point around IKEA, not only have we got lots of things on display at the Independent Living Laboratory, but we've got this incredible technology enablement that allows us to take people in to what's called our national equipment database. It's got 45,000 different types of products on this database, pictures, links to where you can buy them, the amount of money they cost. But again, if you've got the right person having these conversations with you, you're gonna have so much more information that you can then hone your decision making to." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1881.07", "endTime": "1898.5349", "body": "Now not everyone is lucky enough to live near our fabulous Independent Living Laboratory. So I think we should, acknowledge that. And if you're in WA, if you're in Tasmania, Victoria's gotten lucky with this first, sort of concept building, What are the other places people can go to get this this really crucial information?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1898.695", "endTime": "1916.85", "body": "That's been one of the exciting things with the Independent Living Laboratory. It's got this incredible technology enablement, we can reach out all across Australia and internationally. So we've just had an Ageing Well clinic. One of the students there connect with someone in Kalgoorlie. Wow. And do some video conference discussions, and it's actually worked so well with the technology we've got there." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1917.09", "endTime": "1937.09", "body": "But also telephone works really well, and some people don't like using, video conference. And so we can also do those conversations over the telephone. We can post out information that we've talked about. So we've got a really flexible model that means that, yes, you can come and visit the laboratory, but also we can reach out to you in your home across Australia. And we've also got interest internationally." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1937.09", "endTime": "1943.89", "body": "I've just been in Bologna, Italy looking at their independent living laboratories, and there's been great interest in what we're doing in Australia with this laboratory." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1943.89", "endTime": "1947.57", "body": "Wow. So this is a national resource and a no-cost clinic." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1947.895", "endTime": "1948.775", "body": "Absolutely. Yeah." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "1948.775", "endTime": "1950.615", "body": "Prepare to be inundated!" }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "1953.1749", "endTime": "1970.1799", "body": "The other thing is it's been a long journey to get here. So we we sound like it it's just already made and it was dropped in. What's the reality of it being able to be strengthened across Australia, like, in some way helping other communities? Is that likely?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1970.1799", "endTime": "1991.32", "body": "It's such a great point, Tracy. And I love Taya's positivity about, you know, this being a no-cost service, and it absolutely is. But what we also know is we really do need further investment in this really innovative model. So we're seeking currently grants from government. We're talking to the government directly because we know that this sort of resource can make such a difference to the lives of older Australians." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "1991.32", "endTime": "1992.84", "body": "What's their reaction so far?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "1992.92", "endTime": "2002.6799", "body": "Very positive because, you know, they can really see the value of this. And also, as Taya said, it is it is a really cost effective model, but it's reaching out to as many people as possible." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "2002.68", "endTime": "2004.875", "body": "So aged care is expensive." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "2004.875", "endTime": "2005.2749", "body": "Yes, absolutely." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "2005.2749", "endTime": "2017.595", "body": "That's something I wish the community really had a handle on. Like, a person moving into residential aged care, the price tag is about half a million dollars a year. So anything cheaper than that is a win, right?" }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "2017.595", "endTime": "2030.9", "body": "And on top of that, if you fall over at home and end up in an ambulance and go to emergency, that's really, really expensive too. It's also really not good for you. Yeah. So our whole aim is that we can keep people at home, independent and safe." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "2031.655", "endTime": "2046.695", "body": "Which leads us to perhaps the finish where we say we did say we'd help people, so what are what are your top three tips for people to be able to stay at home independently and perhaps learn more about what's possible through research? Top three thanks." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "2047.87", "endTime": "2078.6802", "body": "Well my top one as an occupational therapist is really think about the things that you love and think about ways you can do that for as long as possible. So I talk a lot with my children about their interests, and I think if you can have interests and if you can keep those interests over a lifetime, even if they change the way you do those activities, it really can mean that you're gonna have a really high quality of life. So that's number one, thinking about the things you love and trying to do those and finding new things to love if the old ones have to stop. That's number one." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "2078.92", "endTime": "2097.595", "body": "Number two is I think back to our earlier discussion, remember that changing the way you do activities or using equipment to do them is a superpower that's going keep you doing them. So actually embrace the superpower. Don't see it as a negative thing, see it as a way to really keep doing the things you love." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "2098.075", "endTime": "2133.605", "body": "And then number three is that knowledge is power and if you can get information at the right time, particularly navigating systems like the aged care system or the disability system, then you are going to get much better outcomes for you or your family member. So really trying to make sure that you can have good conversations with your GP who might then help you to connect with health professionals like Taya was asking about like speech pathologists or occupational therapists or the Independent Living Laboratory and obviously the National Centre for Healthy Ageing has a whole webpage on this resource now and we'd love to hear from the community and we'd love to connect with them." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "2133.9502", "endTime": "2139.5503", "body": "And we'll have a link to that website in the show notes listeners as well as all the other resources that we've mentioned today." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "2139.79", "endTime": "2145.1501", "body": "Thanks so much for joining us. Our special guest today, Associate Professor Libby Callaway. Great to have you Libby." }, { "speaker": "Libby Callaway", "startTime": "2145.87", "endTime": "2147.1501", "body": "Thanks so much for having me." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "2147.1501", "endTime": "2157.015", "body": "And my co-host, Dr Taya Collyer. Today, we've explored how we can age well and live at home for longer. We hope it helped. You've been listening to Help! I'm Ageing." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "2157.015", "endTime": "2179.38", "body": "It's a podcast from the National Centre for Healthy Ageing. We're proudly driving innovation and transforming health and care through research so we can all lead healthier lives as we age, especially those most at risk. You want to know more? Please go and check out our website at ncha.org.au. If you like this episode, please tell your friends, your family, your colleagues." }, { "speaker": "Taya Collyer", "startTime": "2180.435", "endTime": "2182.515", "body": "Really, show it to anyone in the street." }, { "speaker": "Tracy Parish", "startTime": "2182.515", "endTime": "2201.52", "body": "Go for it. The more the merrier. The more people we can reach, the greater impact the research can have in helping people age well. There is still so much more to talk about, so join us next time for more real stories, real evidence, real insights about healthy ageing. And don't forget to tune in wherever you listen to your podcasts." } ] }