Pete: I'm Pete Wright.
Andy: And I'm Andy Nelson.
Pete: Welcome to the next reel. When the movie ends
Andy: Our conversation begins.
Pete: After the fox is over,
Andy: Grab your girl, barge your gold, hold your jewels, The fox is loose. I will be out of here by 3 o'clock tomorrow. This I promise you. Dodecard. Dodecard.
Who is the fox? I am the fox. Who is the fox? I am the fox. Who are you?
I am me. Who is me? Me as a thief. Espinucci, there has been a change in the plans. The fox is out of the tree.
We are taking the gold of Cairo job. Speak to me. Say something. Mama, please. There has been enough crying.
Take this soap and wash those lips off your face. Oh, I hate you. I hate to be like that. Okay, Andy. After the fox.
I've been thinking about it for 2 weeks.
Pete: This was, a fun, weird little movie, strangely directed by Fittorio De Sica, which might be the thing that's most surprising when you, look at the sorts of films that De Sica had helmed, and then you see that, you know, the director of Bicycle Thieves also brought us After the Fox. Such a strange a strange little twist in his, career. But
Andy: Is this an example of of a director doing one for a paycheck? Like, is that this could be it. This is to seek his paycheck.
Pete: Yeah. I wonder exactly, like, what I mean, I know that this is something that, like, Peter Sellers had reached out to him and wanted to work with him. According to Neil Simon, that, you know, he kind of made it sound like DeCica had a gambling problem, and he needed a way to help pay for his gambling problem. So this film came along. That's entirely possible.
So I I'm not completely sure, but it is kind of funny to think that that could have played into his reason for jumping onto this film, which it doesn't sound like he necessarily had a great time doing.
Andy: I don't know. I mean, this movie gives me such bowfinger Hudson Hawk vibes. I can't imagine not having a good time on this movie and that it just reminds me that maybe the wrong the wrong team mad to make it. Like, it's just this is just a fun, weird, frivolous comedy.
Pete: Right? Yeah. It's while also and I I don't know. I think that Neil Simon, this is his first screenplay, and Vittorio paired with Vittorio De Sica. There's definitely an element of them poking fun at the world of, like, filmmaking, film directors, actors, even fans, and critics.
We do get poking fun at a critic later in the film. I can't help but there was some of that that they were really enjoying in just kind of the way that they were kind of skewing all this stuff. So, yeah, it's a very light frivolous heist comedy, but it does feel like, while not necessarily completely successful on all counts, they were having quite a bit of fun of doing some of that with it.
Andy: Yeah. Right. You know, so I I I pulled out the, obviously, the film industry. Like, they're lampooning the film industry. I mean, it really is is clever, and it's in the way it pokes fun at the film industry.
And I think the 3rd the entire sort of third act of trying to get out, and and their beach, extended beach sequences is funny. We can talk about that. I think aging in celebrity is one of those big deals. Like, the the big things in this movie is is the kind of fun they have with Victor Mature in this movie is I mean, that was a massive high point for me. As good as Peter Sellers is, I really loved watching Victor Mature battling with his agent about wanting to do the movie just because he's he's looking for his fount of youth.
He's looking for people to perceive him as younger than he is. And all of his efforts to get to to, like, be young, hit me hit me as hard as you can that just end up failing as he collapses in the other room, I think are just so, so good. Like, those kinds of bits are really, really funny. I love his weird protective relationship with his family, Vinucci's, relationship with his family?
Pete: Sister. Yeah.
Andy: His sister is so funny. And, of course, we get Peter Sellers in disguises. Like, that just it it feels like that's where he should be. He always I think he's at his best in disguise. Disguise.
And one of our in our preshow chat, we talked about earworms. We didn't even get to the Pink Panther theme.
Pete: Right. Yeah.
Andy: So the the the that's my those are my quick hits of of the things in this movie that I thought were really well done.
Pete: Yeah. I mean, clearly, they're having fun with the whole idea of a heist comedy. They come up with this this pitch for this heist. You know, they they set us up for the great heists in history, the great train robbery, and there was something in, some big jewel, heist in the fifties in Arabia. And now we're talking about this great gold robbery in Cairo, and then we kind of witness how they kind of set that whole thing up.
All largely successful because of a pretty woman. The way that, that Okra, Akim Tamaroff's character, uses his sister and her and her voluptuous form to, to to get these guards to basically drive off the road accidentally. It it played. It was actually quite funny. But you set that whole thing up with this the the funny setup of all these great heists in history, and this is one of them.
And then you have this commission talking about this heist, trying to figure out how are we gonna deal with this. And then they have their own separate setup of all these great thieves who could potentially help the gold thieves get the gold into Europe. And they're trying to track all of this in very much the way of, like, you know, this is the this is our narrator explaining to us who the thief or who the fox is. We get this pitch of, like, these 4 great thieves who could potentially handle this, and one of them now is, really, really old. One of them has gone blind.
One of them has gotten really obese. And then the 4th one, the fox, is in prison. And that's kind of the setup. They were kind of, like, pitching these different things. And so it's really fun how Neil Simon sets this story up to give us this idea of, like, okay.
We've got one of the great heists of all time, and we've got 4 potential great thieves who could actually help mastermind this. Only one of them could potentially do it, but he's in prison. And now we get to actually see him at work. And that was a really fun way to kind of set up our character of the fox and and this, this thief who figures out these silly ways to get himself out of prison, which works both times in in comedic ways. I had a lot of fun watching him because it's sellers at his best putting on disguises, as you said.
Andy: Outstanding.
Pete: And then, and also a lot of it is because, like you said, the protective nature he has toward his family. Like, he's gotta get out and make sure his family is okay and everything. And so I don't know. Just the setup worked really well for me as we're kind of getting an idea of who the were what the world is and who this character is who's going to kind of lead us on this, this crazy journey. And the fact that right out of the gate, he's using disguises for his dis for his escape, that kind of paints a picture of the type of burglar he is, the type of thief so that when we get into the story, it really makes sense that he's kind of putting on these disguises all the time.
Andy: It's funny. I and I know you haven't finished it yet, but next week's movie, we're gonna be talking about 19 sixty seven's grand slam, another heist movie. And I I can't wait for you to watch that with after the fox in mind. I almost think we should have done these in reverse order because grand slam is a movie that is like here's best case scenario set up for all of your and it's exactly the same. It's like here are all these guys that are the best in the world with clean records, and You are absolutely set up for success as you build the team And then other things happen in that movie, which also make it great.
This movie is from the jump You are guaranteed to fail because everybody you have is a buffoon at this point in their lives And I I find that really funny how both of these movies can be successful for me in in that setup part of it is, you know, as you said Peter Sellers confidence and His his just sort of natural suave nature the fact that he says I'll be leaving, you know, at 3 3 o'clock Yeah, with such confidence and such, you know grace and then he does it Especially because he's caught in a lot of weird scenarios like he's when he's covered in soap, on the banister. Like, he's so suave getting out of prison, but everything else he does isn't kind of a mess.
Pete: Yeah. Right. Which really speaks to perhaps the police and their inept, portrayal throughout the film because he is not necessarily that great at all this, but you have these 2 cops who are perpetually tracking him, trying to figure out where he is, what he's up to, who never can actually pin him down. And this is after he's hiding in the bubble bath or, you know, gets out of the bubble bath, covered in bubbles, trapped outside in the nude. Like, there are some hilarious moments, and these inept police just never can quite figure it out.
And I think that's part of anytime you have a heist comedy, there's always going to be a level which might actually fall into tropes. I wonder where it stands in the world of tropes, but the police generally are gonna be fairly inept at their ability in in actually capturing you, which makes it fun.
Andy: Well, it it does, unless you're, you know, police. What's your sense of the Neil Simon ness of it? Where does this fit for you in in the kinda goofball y Neil Simon screenplays?
Pete: Well, you might, be able to speak better to that than than me. I know that this like I said, this was early in his career. He had 3 shows on Broadway, I think, at the time of this of the release of this film, Little Me, Barefoot in the Park, and The Odd Couple. So, obviously, was doing quite well and then making the shift to film. I don't know.
And he he started in TV, I believe. Right? Before Yeah.
Andy: He did your show of shows and Okay. Yeah.
Pete: Right. Before he went into doing the theater and everything.
Andy: So Like Barefoot in the Park and right.
Pete: Right. And then, like, right after this, he then will start that's when he kind of starts doing some of his adaptations because then he adapts Barefoot in the Park, the odd couple. I probably haven't seen nearly as many of his works as you have, and I've never I don't think I've ever actually seen anything in the theater of his. Okay. The only Neil Simon I've ever seen is actual film, either original scripts like this one or adaptations of his own works.
And I we've only talked about murder by death on the show. Right? Is that the only the one we've discussed?
Andy: Yeah.
Pete: So, well, no. He helped adapt the lonely guy, I guess.
Andy: Oh, I guess yeah. That's
Pete: true. Yeah.
Andy: That's true.
Pete: I but I enjoy his stuff. And and his comedy here, like, I mean, there are some moments where the lines just come fast and furious, and the banter back and forth between the characters, like, really speaks to how I see Simon's writing, like, where just the the things just bounce off each other so quickly, whether it's, the way that he's talking to his family or his bumbling cronies, like his little team of thieves that he's working with, or particularly once we get to the town where what was the town's name? Not Salerno. What was the little town they end up in?
Andy: No. Wasn't that right? So you said it, and
Pete: now that's exactly what I think. Salerno? Was it Salerno? Anyway. That's So Savaglio.
Savaglio.
Andy: Savaglio. God. And they all sound the same.
Pete: He ends up the the town of Savaglio, once we end up there, like, his interactions with the police chief there, that just plays, like, so much what I expect from kind of that that Simon type of comedy. Like, the way that, you know, he wants him to say good morning, and the way that he just sticks his head into the camera saying good morning. You know, it just like it just really struck a chord with me that it felt very much like that Simon type of, quick comedy writing.
Andy: I I mean, you said it, all of that. I agree with all of it. And I think what's fascinating about it is I think this so this movie when it came out, You know critics I did not I I don't think appreciated the Neil simon ness of it Yeah, and that's largely because you know, like I said, this was very very early. This was his first screenplay that he had written and mostly it was called a mess and that, Peter Sellers was great, but the rest of the movie was a big mess, Neil. And then he goes on to do, you know, out of towners and the goodbye girl and murder by death.
And you come back around, and I think you see more of the Neil Simoness stuff in this movie after you've seen other Neil Simon screenplays and adaptations of his own work. And I think that's what makes this movie fun for me is that I feel the genetic imprint of Neil Simon's comedy even though it does feel early. It it feels early, but his choices, like, we we talked about setting up the team, his choices to set up the team the way he does is is principally Neil Simon. Right? To to just take this tropey role and fill it with someone who is unable to to fulfill the level of the trope because of some adaptation, I think is really, really smart.
And so it is a delightful fish out of water story because it puts a really capable supposedly capable cat burglar in, teaming up with a an oddball, you know, crew. And all of those things are, you know, that's where Neil Simon sings. So I think it's I think it's a really solid entry.
Pete: Yeah. Well and we we do have to mention that he did work on this with, Cesare Zavattini. That was a, a writer that had often collaborated with Vittorio De Cecco, who De Cece wanted to work on this with, with Simon. And even though they didn't speak the same language, they had interpreters help. And, actually, Simon said it was very like, he was a very helpful person, lot of intelligent comments, that I could readily understand and agree with.
So I think the the struggle that it seemed like Simon had is a lot of the social statements that De Cease was trying to put into the into the film. I mean, even later, Simon also will go on to talk about how there are elements that work, but, also, it just kind of becomes a little bit more of a jumble than I think that he necessarily wanted. I think he was looking for more of a just a straight up broad farce of, just kind of like the the industry and of, just kind of a heist comedy. And you can tell that. Like, by the time we get to that 3rd act courtroom scene, and we have, Vannucci on the stand, it does feel a little bit like they're trying to say a few things.
Like, he has the things that he's talking about. This is after they've screened all of the footage, and the critic praised it, which was very funny. But, you know, Vinucci's talking about how, you know, walking through the people and, like, looking at Victor Mature's character, Tony, and saying, like, you need to see that you are still a Capa Black dude. Like, he's kind of, like, doing the the big final pitch that you get in that kind of the climactic moment. And it feels like it's kind of there, but it doesn't quite feel like they're nailing it yet.
And I think that's the thing that, that kept it from completely working for me in those moments. You know? Like, I I I and I don't know if that that came from Daseke, if that was something Simon wanted or Zavatini was trying to put in there. How did all of that kind of come together to build to that? Because I do feel like by the time we get to that point and maybe it's part of the joke, but the entire heist part of the story kind of completely disappears and evaporates from us.
Andy: That that was my big central question for you about this. Like, at what point did you forget that the movie was a heist movie? Because it becomes such a, I'm gonna pretend to be in the film industry movie, like, I'm I'm on the lam kind of a movie that I forget that there's gold involved. And I almost think the movie did not pick a lane kind of early enough to figure out what it wanted to be. Are these criminals on the lam, or are they trying to or is it a heist film?
And if it's a heist film, we spend too much time, you know, not talking about the heist in the movie part. And if it's a criminals on the lam film, we should've gotten to the movie part earlier.
Pete: Well yeah. And, I mean, I I like that it it's a it's a creative setup, and I thought it would it played well for us to see how, Vinucci comes to this realization that these movie people can get whatever they want. They have the police chaperoning them, doing whatever they need, and everybody's kind of bending over backwards to help them out. And I thought that was such an incredibly funny, kind of dig at the film industry because, I mean, I've seen it in action. Like, you can see how people really do kind of, like, bend to give you what you want because, oh, it's a movie.
They don't even know what the movie is or if they'll ever even see it, but they're just excited about the idea of a movie being made in their presence, and they're witnessing it. Like, that's that's what's so funny about this industry and and the way that they they kind of rip on it. It it plays really well. And so I I like the way it sets up Vannucci having that realization when he's in the movie theater, kind of all of that. And then once he's in the town, yeah, it does kind of take a long time.
And maybe it's because they just felt like, well, we need to slow things down a little bit. So that's when we have okra, like, slow
Pete: it down. Slow it down. The boat's
Pete: you know, the whatever. The anchor got stuck or whatever, all these issues with the boat. I think that it could have worked better had we not had it slow down so much because of the boat with the gold, but just get the gold here faster and then involve the production more in the gold that entire gold part. Like, by the time we have okra, like, the gold arrives, and then okra just steals it and makes off with it on his own and kind of leaves everybody else. You got that big car chase, which is a funny car chase, but it it leads us to this place where I I just wanted the heist to go a little longer, the actual heist to your point.
The filmmaking is a lot of fun, but keep it going, but just, like, integrate the heist into it more. Like, you get the gold. Now what? Now you've gotta get it from, Savaglio to Rome or whatever. And and, like like, I could have used more of that.
And and I feel like that's where for me, I I was left a little wanting.
Andy: Yeah. I and the the trick of about being left wanting, because I was too, is that they replaced what I was wanting for with something that was also easy to easy to watch. Right? Because I found it funny. Yeah.
I just it's one of those movies that when I stop to think about it, I think I I wonder if those choices like, how were those choices made to your point of, like, trying to figure out if it was a a desica thing, if it was a Simon thing, like, how what was that relationship like? Because it does you do feel a little bit of the dueling ideology in here, right, of the idea of what it means to steal, to get away with something. You know, what does it say about the police, the the state of the police and police protection and the sort of withering ideological choices that police get to make in how they protect and serve, which which I think are all interesting things. It's just that movie doesn't commit. It just leaves it on bits.
Pete: Yeah. Well, and, you know, that's probably why critics at the time struggled with the film and found it to be a bit of a mess. Because when you don't already have a sense of the Neil Simon ness of the script and kind of the fun that he puts into the types of stories that he tells and you've had a better understanding of of what he's delivered over the decades, Without that and you're just watching this, I can see that it's like it's a little bit of a struggle. Like, well, where where are we going with this? Like, what's the point?
Now I can still have a lot of fun with it because I'm really enjoying the setup of these characters and the story and and the skewering of the industry and the way that actors feel about aging and making fun of fans, like, when they're they when Tony is pulling up and all the fans are screaming, and this is when they're still running from the police, All the girls are like, who is it? I don't care, but it's somebody famous. Like, it just that speaks to, like, the way the fans react to that. And so they're having a lot of fun, and that's why I have I I mean, I honestly had so much fun with this movie even while I still have all of these issues with it.
Andy: Well, you know what's funny? I mean, you bring up another one. This this idea of fandom of of celebrity, the fact that it's not just that he gets what he wants in terms of police protection and cooperation from the city. It's that he gets way more than he bargains for because he didn't anticipate the frothing celebrity, you know, that they would bring to that town just by virtue of setting up a camera and bringing, you know, what's his name, the the Victor Matures character, Tony Powell, to that little town. Like, he did not like, he'd never anticipated that he would get more, than than that particular bargain called for.
Like, that he would get people in the way that would become an obstacle to him getting what he wanted. Right.
Pete: Like, he has to figure out how can I now the police chief is a key part of this? Good morning. What do I do to make this work where the police chief is helping me, but he's not gonna be in my way and not investigating us? And, like, the way and and it plays smart. It was fun, you know, having to figure out how to integrate him and and have him say lines and just like and that's what I love so much about Peter Sellers, the way that he plays the director as, Fabrizzi.
Like, he is constantly, like, playing that perfect idea of what people think of as a director, the person who, like, stops mid conversation and just puts their hands up to look at you through their little their little window, or he's got his little viewfinder to go, wait. Your jaw, look over there at the light. And he, like as he's just like, I've never seen a jaw like yours. Like, the way that he could just kind of pitches it and sells it, like, that is fun and very funny skewering of just the way that people view a lot of these filmmakers. And, you know, my understanding is that they were kind of poking fun at people like Fellini and and DeMille and Antonioni.
And even DeSica himself, you know, he's poking fun at like, he's the one who is filming that biblical epic that they go steal all the gear from. Right? And so, like, with I think it was John Houston who was playing Moses, and, like, I I can't I mean, a fake John Houston, but, like, it was so funny just how even he himself was gonna allow, to be, torn into a little bit. I just thought that was a lot of fun.
Andy: So Martin Balsam is our, agent?
Pete: Yes.
Andy: What a face, Martin Balsam.
Pete: Oh, yeah.
Andy: Yeah. 180 credits. Been in just about everything. Do you have a favorite Martin Balsam performance?
Pete: I think I always think of him in Psycho before anything else. I think that's where Oh, sure. That's a
Andy: big one.
Pete: My brain goes. Yeah. Yeah. Arbogast. Yeah.
Just the the kill his killing on the staircase and the way that that's shot always like, that's where I think of, first with his face. I'm trying to think, like, what else do I think of regularly when I think of him?
Andy: The the problem is
Pete: a gazillion things of his.
Andy: Exactly. Exactly. But I could not tell you what he was doing in them, like 2 episodes of Murder, She Wrote. I think that is quintessential, Martin Balsam, because I would see him and think that's a guy I know very well, but I would not be able to tell you what he was what he was from, even though he's been in so so many things.
Pete: Well, he's one of those that guys. Right?
Andy: Yeah. Yeah. He's a that guy. He was an all All the president's men. Yeah.
Yeah. That's a big one.
Pete: But, again, to your point, like, I'm not sure I can tell you who he was in that.
Andy: Taking a Pelham 1, 2, 3. Oh, and 12 angry men. He was juror number 1. 12 angry men.
Pete: Okay. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah.
I mean, just yeah. Yeah. He's, he's a great face, and it's fun to see him kind of playing the, the the agent who is struggling dealing with his actor who is constantly, like, following his whims. And I think that's part of the joy, because he's trying to actually do his job and and get this guy to listen to him and then his actor. You know?
Victor Mature, who's also just, I mean, so great to kind of see just the way that he plays is just perfect in this role. And I don't think we've talked about a Victor Mature film before, but he's another one of those faces that I think just always works, whether it's like playing Doc Holliday in My Darling Clementine or in some of the movies he'd like, the kiss of death, things like that. Like, he's just he's just a fantastic actor. I just I really enjoy seeing him.
Andy: He really is fantastic, and I think it's it's funny that this movie allows him to lampoon himself. Right? Like, that's it's it feels like such an effortless kind of easy part for him because he's just playing Victor Mature at this point in his career.
Pete: Well and what's fun is, like, he had actually retired before this. Like, he said it's it's not fun anymore. He didn't wanna act anymore, and he was fine financially. And so he's just like, you know what? I'm not having fun.
I'm just gonna quit. And Peter Sellers brought kind of lured him into doing this again, and he had so much fun, kind of parodying himself and just kind of playing this sort of thing that he just loved it and wanted to come back and and do more. And so he did, you know, it wasn't a ton of stuff, but he did end up in things like, wanton ton, the dog that saved the world, and would continue acting. I just don't think he ever got back into it as much as he had before he retired. Yeah.
And, you know, at that point, you're he I think he's able to just kind of do what he wants. You know?
Andy: Dare to dream, man. Dare to dream. Yeah. Right? What a smile.
Pete: We've talked about sellers a few times before doctor Strangelove and being there. I think this is much more in line with the doctor or doctor Strangelove type of performance where we're seeing, just a very big sort of performance and one where he's, putting on different disguises. So certainly more in line with kind of the pink panther sorts of movies.
Andy: Yeah. Murder by Death. Right?
Pete: Oh, yeah. Right. Yep.
Andy: I I just think he he plays it so well. And I I think when you look at something like Being There like, like, I remember talking about that movie and it was it's always such a surprise watching that movie because the part is so much more subdued and straight than, I certainly was used to watching, of Peter Sellers. I I wonder, and I don't I mean, I don't know. I haven't read anything about this, but I wonder if Peter Sellers ever felt trapped in his own ability to be a comic acting hero because he's he's such a great serious actor too.
Pete: Yeah. And and I think that's, probably a trick. I mean, the thing is that I take for granted is how many other films he had been in that you know? So it's like, it's hard to necessarily comment on that without doing a deeper dive into his filmography and really getting a better handle on what he was up to. Like, I know he did, What's New Pussycat right before this, which is part of the joke in the movie poster for this film.
You caught the pussycat, now chase the fox. Like, that they they were just playing on that. And I know that there was kind of a variety of different films, but I do wanna kind of walk through his filmography a little bit more to just to get an understanding as to what else he was doing that might have been something worth worthy of, like, his notice. Oh, Lolita. Certainly, there's another example of something that was a little more little more serious.
Yeah.
Andy: For sure. I just look at his legacy, and I can't find like, there's I I don't know how if if you haven't seen those movies and you wonder, like, who is this Peter Sellers guy? What comes up is going to be the Pink Panther. Right? What comes up is going to be the legacy of a comic actor.
Right. And that's what I that that's the thing that I'm most sort of compelled by is, you know, was he ever stuck? Did he ever feel stuck in behind that part of his legacy when he offered so much more?
Pete: Yeah. Because he did, let's see. A shot in the dark is the 1st Pink Panther movie. Right?
Andy: Mhmm. And
Pete: then it goes to the Pink Panther, the return of the Pink Panther, the Pink Panther strikes again, revenge of the Pink Panther, trail of the pink panther. And I think the trail is the one that he it was it was posthumously made, and I think it was just footage that that had been cut from all of the other films that they were doing to put that together, and it led to a lawsuit and everything. So, yeah, so quite a number of those films over his career. So I really I I think I've only seen A Shot in the Dark completely. And then I've seen bits and pieces of the others to the point where I don't know which one is which.
So I should sit down and just watch them all at some point. Andy, come on. I
Andy: know. That's a that's a series that's begging to be done. You really have not seen like, you haven't lived is I think what I'm supposed to say. Andy, you haven't lived until you've seen more Pink Panther movies.
Pete: Yeah. I guess I need to. Yeah. Definitely do.
Andy: Lady we didn't even bring up the lady killers.
Pete: Well, he wasn't in that. Oh, really? Wasn't was he? That was Alec Guinness.
Andy: I'm just are you looking? I I'd like you to look.
Pete: Harry Robinson. Alright. I forgot. I I get so focused on Alec Guinness in that film. I guess I just completely forgot that he was in it.
Andy: There is there is an interesting crossover, though, for those 2 because, like, well, I the my one of my favorite movies is the man in the white suit, and that's Alec Guinness. And at this era, Alec Guinness and Peter Sellers look very similar.
Pete: There is a similarity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy: Alright.
Pete: At the time, Peter Sellers was married to Britt Eklund who plays his sister in the film. And, again, we talked about how much we enjoyed how protective he was of his sister to the point where if they're talking about her acting ability or her beauty, it's totally fine. But if if they have any hint of saying anything how they are interested in her, then it flips a switch in his head, and he goes into attack mode. It's very funny. Very, very funny.
Andy: It's funny. Who is it?
Pete: Was it, I think it was Charlize Theron who played Brit in that, Peter Sellers biopic. Right? The one with, Jeffrey Rush as Sellers. Do you remember that one?
Andy: No. I didn't I don't think I saw it.
Pete: It was a made for TV biopic. It might have been just called, like, the life and times of Peter Sellers, I think. The life and death of Peter Sellers.
Andy: The life and death of Peter Sellers with Jeffrey Rush and Charlize Theron. Look at you.
Pete: Yeah. Okay.
Andy: 2 for 2.
Pete: Yeah. Pulled that out. Great. It was a really great biopic. Pretty interesting story about his life worth checking out.
It's interesting to kind of see how they all played. Emily Watson was his first wife, Anne Howe, and Charlize Theron was Brit. John Lithgow was Blake Edwards. Stanley Tucci was Stanley Kubrick. Yeah.
Definitely worth checking out. But I liked Brit in this. I mean, I think that it was quite a bit of contention with DeCica. We should say Vittorio De Sica. Peter Sellers said, hey.
Let's get Vittorio De Sica to direct this. He was producing this with his new producing partner, John Bryan. This was their first and only film that they produced under their production company banner that fell apart because they struggled working together on this one film. Peter Sellers wanted Vittorio De Sica to come on board and then hated working with De Sica. De Sica, he said he thinks in Italian, I think in English.
He wanted to replace De Sica, but his producing partner said no for, financial and artistic reasons. De Sica was very impatient with Sellers, didn't like his performance, didn't like Simon's screenplay, and had a miserable time making this movie, and didn't like the fact that he was essentially forced to cast Brit Ekeland to play the sister because he's like, she in no way looks Italian. She looks Nordic.
Andy: Yeah.
Pete: And that was that was a frustration for him. But outside of that, I enjoyed her in the part, though.
Andy: Oh, yeah. Well, it and, you know, she she she has a certain kind of part. Right? Like, she doesn't do that much. The movie revolves around Peter Sellers' relationship with her, and that's the most important part is what he thinks of her.
Pete: Yeah. And her cutesy fandom of being a fan of this actor, but then also getting to be an actress and kind of, like, have her own fans signing autographs. I mean, it's just a it was kind of an easy role. Easy role. I did as far as, in jokes, something that we didn't bring out was, possibly my favorite bit where they're talking about, this is when Tony is talking to his agent.
And, and his agent's like, did you ever hear of this guy, Federico Federico Fabrizzi? And Tony's like, no. And Harry's like, he's downstairs. He wants to talk about a picture. And Tony says, what?
And Harry's like, a neorealistic film. And Tony's like, send him up. What's neorealism? And Harry says, no money.
Andy: No money.
Pete: Just the fact that De Sica has that little line in there. And I don't know if that, you know, is a Simon thing or whatever, but just the fact that it's in a De Sica film where he himself is now making fun of neorealist films that just have no money behind them. That was a great gag. I I had a good laugh at that.
Andy: The, this is one of the what, you know, on IMDB are Listed in the goofs page as factual errors And I think this one is actually really funny because I wondered as I was watching it and then totally lost track of that I that of the thought and then this brings it back at the beginning of the film the police Conferees are presented with a gold bar to examine Based on its apparent size, it seems to be about a foot and a half long by 3 and a half inches wide and high. It would weigh on the order of a £150, yet it's passed around the table as if it weighs a tenth as much. I thought that was amusing because people forget gold is heavy.
Pete: I was laughing about that because those gold bars were so big. They were absurd. I'm like, what kind of gold bars are these? Like, that was that was very comical. Yeah.
What did you think of, in the scope of a comedy? And maybe this doesn't necessarily fit in the scope of the heist part of the film. But as our comedy film is building, you know, we've got a lot of the comedy beats at the beginning as he's trying to get away from the police and figure his plan out. Then we got the comedy in the town and the filmmaking and stuff, and it builds to a big car chase. How does that as kind of our big climactic comedy moment play for you?
Andy: You mean, is the car chase itself funny?
Pete: Like, yeah. Did that end up working as kind of, like, if we're building if that's kind of the climactic chase of the film, Okra steals the gold, Fabrizio and his team chase after him, the cops chase after them, The sister and all of them chase after. Everybody's chasing trying to get the gold. It's super dusty because they've installed this, like, dust blower machine in the back of the truck, so it's hard to see. And everybody ends up crashing into each other.
That's kind of the big gag.
Andy: It's it's predictable. But you know what? I find myself thinking about when I watch the when I'm watching this particular car chase is just how good the car chase was at the end of the original Italian job. And in the original Italian job, there was a gimmick because there was the bus and the bus hanging off the edge of the cliff was a fantastic punch line to that thing. And I didn't feel like this had a great punch line.
Like, it was just mayhem for for less purpose.
Pete: Right. I think that's where I sit with it. Like, it was fun to watch, but because it leaves the heist, so the heist, it just disappears. Like, okra makes off with the gold and just everyone else crashes and ends up in court. It just kind of left it on a note like, okay.
Are they and, like, I was like, are they trying to say something? Like, the was this some of the commentary that DeCica was trying to throw in here? Like, all of this work and they end up with nothing. I wasn't really sure, but it did it did feel like a letdown after kind of everything else. Like, it didn't build anything overly satisfactory.
Andy: Did you yeah. Did you ever find yourself really, really rooting for them to get away with the gold?
Pete: I didn't I wasn't necessarily rooting for them to get away with it, but I was rooting for cleverness. And I think I had had such fun with the cleverness up to that point that I was just hoping I would be given more cleverness. And, like, it does not end cleverly. Yeah. Right.
And that's, I think, the frustration that comes with it.
Andy: Yeah.
Andy: I agree with that.
Pete: Like, we have like, thinking of other comedy beats that work, and this is something that Austin Powers actually spoofed. Like, the way that you would have the conversations when Vinucci was in a cafe or whatever meeting Okra, but Okra wouldn't talk to him. It was all through his sister. And she would talk, and then Vinucci would answer, But Vannucci was also hitting on her, but, you know, it was this whole conversation through Okra that they were having. Like, that played really funny.
Like, there were some fantastically funny comedy bits as far as, like, how these criminals were communicating and all of that. Like, I loved all of that stuff. It made me laugh out loud to watch the the way that these silly moments would play out. And, yeah, I just I wanted that cleverness to kind of continue building.
Andy: Yes. Yeah. Totally. Because some of those things are just straight funny. Like, not just those conversations, but he's in the shower.
Like, all of those things struck me as really, like, overtly laugh out loud funny.
Pete: Right. Right. Like, that's where Simon was shining. And Yes. Again, is it is it his struggle with working with a collaborator on the script?
Is it what the Desika was trying to put in there or what that ended up kind of just leaving it feeling a little flat by the time we got to the end?
Andy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna blame to Sika. I'm gonna go ahead.
I'll do it. Neil Simon is, is a beautiful white bird and he just needs to fly.
Pete: All right. Last thing that we have to talk about is the title song, this incredible earworm, Bert Bacharach, and the Hollies singing along with, Peter Sellers after the Fox. This is a you know, over our fantastic opening sequence that is kind of just animated titles, which I love films that start with an animated title sequence, especially when it's a silly theme song like this. And, man, does this song stick in your head?
Andy: God, it's rough. I don't understand. I mean, I it's funny, but it's funny in a way that I don't I don't understand. I don't understand why the the call and response is is so absurd. Like, it's it's sticks in my head, and I don't understand it.
It's it's like Peter Sellers is the fox who who speaks incorrectly to to respond. And, like, I can't I I just can't I know I'm overthinking it in the fact that I
Pete: can't think about it. For people who can't remember, let's just speak through the the first section. So I would say, who is the fox? And you would say
Andy: I am the fox.
Pete: Who are you? I am me. Who is me? Me is the fox. Me is the thief.
Is it me
Andy: Oh, me is the thief.
Andy: That's right.
Pete: That's right. And that's that's what you're talking about. Like Yeah. Me is a thief. Yeah.
Who's that's not even English. Like, why are you speaking that way? But that's that's like part of the comedy. Like, it just it's it's nonsense. And, yeah, it's just such a strange thing to to have part of the film, but it plays in a very funny way.
And for me, it kind of set up the comedy.
Andy: It it does. It does. It sets up the comedy, and it's a thing that makes you keep thinking about it like me. Like, it just keeps thinking, like, what is the relationship between this song and the movie, and how much of how much are we getting out of the song that is forecasting the movie. Right?
It's like calling it's like Babe Ruth calling it shot. That's right. The theme song to after the fox is like Babe Ruth. I think it's delightful. I really do.
And it just it breaks my brain a little bit.
Pete: It is one that does a little brain breaking because it is so effective. It's sticking
Andy: in your head.
Pete: So effective. Yeah.
Andy: And if you I mean, if you haven't seen the movie and you do just go watch the trailer because they do play it over the trailer. They don't play the whole thing in in full, but you get enough of it to understand.
Pete: Yeah. You'll know what we're talking about because it just it sticks in your head.
Andy: Can't miss
Pete: it. Alright. Well, we'll be right back. But first, our credits.
Andy: The next reel is a production of True Story FM, engineering by Andy Nelson, music by Ty Simon, bonjour, bonjour, Oratio Saracino, Aureal Novella, and Eli Catlin. Andy usually finds all the stats for the awards and numbers atddashnumbersdot com, boxofficemojo.com, imbb.com, and wikipedia.org. Find the show at true story dot f m. And if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show.
Andy: Be still, my fellow cinephiles. The hunt is on. We've been tracking it for weeks now, through the dense jungle of superhero sequels and the thorny thicket of streaming algorithms. We're not after mere popcorn fare. No, sir.
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Andy: Sequels and remakes, Andy. I mean, if any of these movies demands a remake, it's obviously axe After the Fox.
Pete: Yeah. Unfortunately, no sequels to this. No return of the Fox or anything like that would have been fun to see, but it wasn't popular enough at the time to get that to happen. But as often is the case, there was a Hindi version that was made in 2010 called Thiess Marakhan or he who killed 30, and it was a, heist, heist comedy directed by Farah Khan. And, yeah, it's is the Bollywood version of this story.
So I am now curious to check that one out and see just how much fun it is and see if they come up with a better ending than this one had.
Andy: Okay. I I I guess I'm You're not gonna watch it with me. I'm unprovoked. How to do at the box office to make any money?
Pete: Well, De Sica had a budget of $3,000,000 for this or 29,300,000 in today's dollars. The movie opened in Italy September 8, 1966, then here in the States December 15th 1966 opposite another American Italian film, The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly, along with the cooler memorandum. Perhaps because of the negative reviews, it didn't quite earn its budget back, bringing in only 2,300,000 or 22,400,000 in today's dollars. That lands this seller vehicle with an adjusted loss per finished minute of about $67,000. Well, that's that's disappointing but predictable.
Well, it has gained a cult, following over the years. And so, if anything, it's likely one of those films that has since found its audience and, who knows, maybe even made some money back, not that they report that sort of thing.
Andy: Yeah. Well, I'll tell you. I thought it was really fun. Is it a 5 star movie? I'm gonna tell you now.
It's not a 5 star movie, but it was really fun. And, again, the Hudson Hawk vibes, they were just, they just had my my heart swole.
Pete: Yeah. I had a lot of fun with the film. I had a great time. It has its issues like we've discussed, but that doesn't mean I just didn't have fun the whole time with this one. It's just the kind of silly funny thing.
Something else I was just thinking about is the the fact that when we're in the prison, it's the prisoners who are giving all of the things to the visitors. Like, it's just it's such a subtle, like, visual gag, but, like, they're so much more successful in prison that they're helping out their families, giving them food and everything. Like, that just sucks.
Andy: Know visiting hours were so good. Here's some bread, and here's some canned fish.
Pete: Like, all of those little things. Like, it just it made me laugh so much. I had a great time with this one. Glad we, watched it and, glad to include it in our heist series. Me too.
Alright. Well, we'll be right back for our ratings, but first, here are the here's the trailer for next week's movie, wrapping up this return to our heist film series, Giuliano Montaldo's 1967 film Grand Slam.
Trailer: Rio de Janeiro. Carnival time. Three carefree colorful days and nights of parades, fun making, and dancing in the streets. Hundreds of thousands of people flock to Rio for carnival time. Most of them to enjoy themselves.
On this particular occasion, however, 4 men take advantage of the festivities to carry out one of the most sensational robberies of the century. Grand Slam. The job was planned in New York. Every move worked out in minute detail. Men with nerves of steel, each an expert in his own field are brought together to create a team that will stop at nothing to crack the most carefully guarded vault in the world.
At stake, diamonds worth 1,000,000 of dollars. With nothing left to chance, there was only one thing that could not be allowed for. The reaction of a girl who held the key to success and who stood to lose everything even her life if the diamonds were stolen. With a fortune at stake, nothing was spared to ensure success. Grand Slam.
20 20 minutes was all the time available. 20 suspense filled minutes with no margin for error. The job had to succeed. Anything or anyone who stood in the way of success was ruthlessly eliminated. There was too much to gain and everything to lose.
Once in, there was no way out. Grand Slam. This was no ordinary robbery, but a masterpiece of split second timing timing and ingenious devices specifically designed to neutralize alarm systems that were supposed to be infallible.
Pete: My friends. Do I have a story for you. It's got more twists and turns than a plate of spaghetti. I've been in this filmmaking business for a long time, Capisce, and I've learned that it's all about crafting a story that steals the heart of the audience. Like a master thief stealing Egyptian gold rat from under the nose of the Polynesia.
I'm putting together a team of the most talented individuals in the business. A group of people who understand the power of cinema and know how to wield it like a finely crafted Italian leather glove. We're gonna make a movie that'll be the talk of the town from Milano to Palermo. By joining our team at the next reel, you'll get your hands on a whole bunch of exclusive content from master analysts who can break down a movie like a skilled chef filleting a brancino. They're ready to spill the beans just like Norma sharing her secret recipes.
As a member of our crew, you'll get ad free episodes packed with insights and analysis that'll make you see movies in a whole new light, like putting on a pair of designer Italian shades. And if you really show us what you're made of, you'll get access to extended editions that go deeper than the blue grotto of Capri. But wait, there's more. You'll also get a golden ticket to our private discord community where you can rub elbows with other movie loving paisanos. It's like having your very own secret Italian cafe where you can sip on espresso and talk movies with people who really get your passion.
You know what I mean? And the best part? It's a piece of cake. Just head over to true story dot f m slash join and take your pick between our monthly or annual membership options. For just $5 a month or $55 a year, you can be part of this exclusive group of cinema lovers.
That's a steal, my friends. Like finding genuine Italian truffles at a discount. So what do you say? You ready to join our crew and become a master of cinematic analysis? You ready to help us make a movie that'll go down in history as the greatest heist of all time?
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Ciao.
Andy: Letterbox, Andy. Letterbox.com/thenextreal. That's where you'll find our HQ page over on Letterbox. And we're gonna talk about, stars, stars and hearts today. Andy, stars and hearts, what are you gonna do for this movie, and where are you gonna take those stars from?
Pete: I had a fun time with this movie. I had a lot of fun. I think 3, 3a half, that range is exactly where it's gonna sit. I'm gonna say 3a half because even if I did have the issues with it, I still just had so much fun, and it's like laugh out loud fun time. So 3a half and a heart is where I'm gonna land.
Andy: Yeah. I I with no disrespect at all intended, it is a 3 star and a heart movie. It's, slightly better than read down the middle, and I I would watch it again. Yeah. How about that?
Very funny. High praise.
Pete: Yep. Absolutely. Well, you'll that'll, average out to 3 and a half and a heart over on our account at, at letterboxed, which is at the next reel. You can find me there at Soda Creek Film. You can find Pete there at Pete Wright.
So what did you think about after the fox? We would love to hear your thoughts. Hop into the show talk channel over in our discord community where we will be talking about the movie this week.
Andy: When the movie ends
Pete: Our conversation begins.
Andy: Letterbox giveth, Andrew.
Pete: As Letterbox always do it.
Andy: I'm gonna go ahead and take the opportunity to go first because what I have say is not directly about the movie, but I find it fascinating. Sounds good. This one comes from Chuzen. It's a 2 star review. Oh.
And yet I don't know what Chuzen thinks of the movie. Here you go. Eureka. After years of trying to figure out where the liner notes and title from Yola tangos, I Can Hear the Heart Beating as 1 came from, I finally, finally, finally saw it 56 minutes and 30 seconds into After the Fox. Quote, what the hell is a yellow tango?
Should we update their Wiki page to indicate the origin story of I Can Hear the Heart Beating as One's title? Updating would save others from the frustration of trying to figure out one of the great mysteries of all time. I mean, I'm not alone, am I? This wasn't some easily obtainable fact that you can just Google, or am I just an idiot, LOL, and everyone else knew about it? But at the same time, would it be ruining the opportunity for someone else to feel such exhilaration when they eventually discover it?
And would it be going against the spirit of it all by simply putting it on Wikipedia? But at the same time, the Venn diagram of people who listen to YLT and people who have seen after the fox is extremely small, one would think. What to do? What to do? Any suggestions?
Please comment below. Wow. Has anyone commented? I don't, no. Yes.
I say put it out there. I love Kaplan's sentiment of the serendipitous delight of stumbling upon the line, but it seems like the likelihood of literally anyone stumbling upon the film hinges ever closer to 0. That is a very,
Pete: yeah, a very fine line of of stumbling upon upon those two things, a fan of Yola Tango's song
Andy: Yeah.
Pete: Who has that question in their head still and then the person who also then watches this movie.
Andy: Oh my god. Andy, choose n, 3 years ago, updates and says update. Finally, I updated the Wiki page. Better late than never. 3 years ago.
Update 2. My edit got taken down. Whatever. I try to help my fellow YLT family, but to no avail. Bureaucracy.
And then, Neil Murphy says, o m g. That's crazy. I had no idea my favorite band in this film would ever be connected. Very cool. I really enjoyed the film too.
Pete: Oh my god. Wow. It's a whole thing.
Andy: What the hell is a yellow tango? Yeah. I have to go listen to that album now.
Pete: Yeah. Yo La Tango Yellow Tango. That's funny. Yeah.
Andy: It is funny. There's it's legit funny, I think.
Pete: Wow. I've heard some of their music, but I don't know if I've specifically listened to that album or anything with this question in mind. So, yeah, it might be Yeah. Might be needing to happen. Well, I've got a 4 star by Tim Kopp who says, this movie proves that I have an endless tolerance for the, quote, Peter Sellers involved in wacky car chases, end quote, genre.
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Give us 4 of Peter Sellers involved in wacky car chases. We need it.
Sure.
Andy: I'll take it.
Pete: Yeah. Even if that's not the best part of the film, it still is very fun.
Andy: Hate it. Yeah. Car chases and mysteries solved. Thanks, Leonard.