WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:40.204 --> 00:00:42.004 Duke: All right, Corey, what are we chatting about today? 00:00:42.460 --> 00:00:44.470 CJ: All right, duke, , today we're, talking about what we're 00:00:44.470 --> 00:00:48.620 gonna do next, and that sounds fairly ominous, but it is not. 00:00:49.935 --> 00:00:51.560 Duke: Wait, what we're gonna do next? 00:00:51.770 --> 00:00:53.960 CJ: Chasing not what we are going to do next. 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:58.280 In case folks are getting the wrong idea, though, we might clickbait the title, 00:00:59.270 --> 00:00:59.630 Duke: Yeah. 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:07.610 CJ: but what are we collectively beyond the two of us on this podcast going 00:01:07.610 --> 00:01:13.250 to do next when it comes to the future of work and how AI plays a part in it? 00:01:13.437 --> 00:01:14.277 Duke: Yeah. 00:01:14.500 --> 00:01:16.570 It is a bit of a scramble right now, isn't it? 00:01:17.020 --> 00:01:18.040 I mean, I feel that way 00:01:18.595 --> 00:01:19.795 CJ: No same, right? 00:01:19.795 --> 00:01:23.785 There's just so much happening in every single segment and area that you 00:01:23.785 --> 00:01:28.565 look , and it's hard to keep up with all of it, but you do feel that undeniable 00:01:28.715 --> 00:01:33.545 push of progress, like something big is happening, but you don't really know what. 00:01:34.060 --> 00:01:36.800 Duke: Yeah, everything's changing, but what do we do? 00:01:37.244 --> 00:01:38.699 But what can we do like, 00:01:38.759 --> 00:01:39.469 CJ: Right, right, 00:01:39.969 --> 00:01:42.314 Duke: it's not like it didn't just change and stop. 00:01:42.404 --> 00:01:42.974 You know what I mean? 00:01:42.974 --> 00:01:44.984 It's like changing as we go. 00:01:45.294 --> 00:01:47.964 My focus right now is people who want to get into the ServiceNow 00:01:48.204 --> 00:01:49.464 world, what do you tell 'em now? 00:01:49.839 --> 00:01:50.189 CJ: right. 00:01:50.762 --> 00:01:54.452 Duke: And I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about what are still 00:01:54.452 --> 00:01:58.172 useful skills versus what are skills that you're gonna leave to the AI. 00:01:58.485 --> 00:02:00.315 And I don't have an answer by the way. 00:02:00.315 --> 00:02:02.745 Lemme just be clear that up right up front, I don't have an answer, 00:02:05.010 --> 00:02:06.660 CJ: You thought we were experts on this? 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:07.320 Duke: yeah. 00:02:07.545 --> 00:02:07.785 Yeah. 00:02:07.845 --> 00:02:12.748 What I'm going on though, like my gut feeling is that if I was starting today, 00:02:12.868 --> 00:02:17.935 I would still learn all the things we had to learn five, 10 years ago. 00:02:18.835 --> 00:02:22.012 I'd still learn about task, learn about. 00:02:22.043 --> 00:02:24.863 Building custom apps, even the hard old fashioned ways. 00:02:24.863 --> 00:02:29.160 Before we had all these studios, I'd learn about all the component pieces and 00:02:29.160 --> 00:02:34.160 I'd learn a process, or two, and then at least I would have some inkling of 00:02:34.160 --> 00:02:39.350 what I was asking the AI to do if indeed we're going to exclusively AI builders. 00:02:39.933 --> 00:02:40.593 CJ: Yeah. 00:02:40.767 --> 00:02:41.907 Duke, I think I agree with you. 00:02:41.907 --> 00:02:44.407 I'd still, get the ITIL foundations. 00:02:44.521 --> 00:02:47.941 certification first and then do everything else that you just said. 00:02:48.154 --> 00:02:51.394 It's only a three day or two day class , but I just feel like it gives 00:02:51.664 --> 00:02:56.434 a really great bootstrap into service management that is incredibly important 00:02:56.434 --> 00:02:57.904 if you're gonna follow this career path. 00:02:58.631 --> 00:03:02.401 Duke: So you're still saying go for ITSM if for a process area. 00:03:02.996 --> 00:03:05.186 CJ: I'm a bit biased because it's, where I started. 00:03:05.259 --> 00:03:10.929 But what I do think ITSM gives you is The service management part. 00:03:11.559 --> 00:03:16.569 And I think every other process, while they don't have SM in the 00:03:16.569 --> 00:03:20.349 acronym, they're all service management or most of them anyway. 00:03:21.024 --> 00:03:22.794 But they don't explicitly state that. 00:03:22.794 --> 00:03:29.114 So going through the ITSM gives you, a foundation into service management 00:03:29.114 --> 00:03:32.239 itself, which allows you to pick up some of those other processes easier. 00:03:33.863 --> 00:03:34.163 Duke: Yeah. 00:03:34.223 --> 00:03:38.577 For me it's, think ServiceNow is legitimately so wide now that you 00:03:38.577 --> 00:03:40.617 can, you don't necessarily need that. 00:03:40.617 --> 00:03:41.578 ITSM. 00:03:41.758 --> 00:03:44.428 Deep knowledge in order to be useful in this space. 00:03:44.753 --> 00:03:44.973 CJ: Yep. 00:03:45.353 --> 00:03:45.773 Agreed. 00:03:45.898 --> 00:03:48.418 Duke: easier than ever to sidestep it, but it's just the 00:03:48.418 --> 00:03:51.328 ubiquitousness of of the ITSM content. 00:03:51.408 --> 00:03:54.318 Like how do you teach somebody about UI policy? 00:03:54.318 --> 00:03:56.868 Well, you pull up the incident form and say, wouldn't it be cool if 00:03:56.898 --> 00:03:59.928 this field on the incident form was mandatory if this thing was checked? 00:04:00.348 --> 00:04:04.185 And it's every single example gets pulled from ITSM because that was 00:04:04.185 --> 00:04:05.895 the thing that everybody started on. 00:04:06.345 --> 00:04:07.035 And so. 00:04:07.470 --> 00:04:11.750 It's handy to at least put that under your belt as a beginner, just 00:04:11.930 --> 00:04:16.057 for the absolute glut of domain knowledge that's out there, and that 00:04:16.177 --> 00:04:19.687 that domain knowledge was established before ServiceNow got to it, right? 00:04:19.857 --> 00:04:25.727 ITIL had an old white beard before, before ServiceNow was even a thing. 00:04:25.727 --> 00:04:30.107 But on every other area, ServiceNow has put its touch on it. 00:04:30.247 --> 00:04:30.787 CJ: Correct. 00:04:31.128 --> 00:04:31.488 Duke: Oh wow. 00:04:31.488 --> 00:04:32.928 This got away from AI in a hurry. 00:04:37.023 --> 00:04:39.603 CJ: Well, but so, but maybe it didn't 00:04:42.793 --> 00:04:46.208 but maybe it didn't Duke, When you think about it, because what we're saying here. 00:04:46.973 --> 00:04:50.713 Is that even, though AI is gonna be ubiquitous and is already getting 00:04:50.713 --> 00:04:56.360 ubiquitous you still need to know the underlying thing that you're asking 00:04:56.360 --> 00:05:02.550 AI to do, because how else can you get it to do the thing correctly or 00:05:02.550 --> 00:05:03.810 know that it's being done correctly? 00:05:03.955 --> 00:05:06.515 If you can't judge it like it is, you know what I mean? 00:05:06.515 --> 00:05:10.110 Like you, you go from operator to manager, but you still need to know the 00:05:10.110 --> 00:05:11.790 subject matter in order to manage it. 00:05:12.900 --> 00:05:16.260 Duke: I remember the first piece of content I wrote, I put a little like 00:05:16.650 --> 00:05:20.820 PowerPoint slideshow on beginners and ai. 00:05:20.877 --> 00:05:23.733 And one of the people in the Economist was like, yeah, but 00:05:23.733 --> 00:05:25.023 that's a stupid way to do it. 00:05:25.123 --> 00:05:27.673 Critiquing the a, what the AI suggested, right? 00:05:27.928 --> 00:05:28.438 CJ: Right. 00:05:28.813 --> 00:05:32.683 Duke: And he was wrong in the sense that I went from nothing to a solution in 00:05:32.683 --> 00:05:35.023 a five minute interval with Chat g pt. 00:05:35.858 --> 00:05:36.148 CJ: Yeah. 00:05:36.163 --> 00:05:38.988 Duke: But he was also right in the case that yeah, it was a stupid way to do it. 00:05:42.763 --> 00:05:43.243 To do it. 00:05:43.243 --> 00:05:49.023 And so I fear for the newer members of the community that are in that position, 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:53.510 the force of the ecosystem is towards. 00:05:53.618 --> 00:05:57.008 Ask the ai, ask the ai, ask the ai, save yourself some time. 00:05:57.008 --> 00:05:58.238 Get the AI to do it. 00:05:58.748 --> 00:06:05.692 But it's only the people who fought in the trenches that can sense that good 00:06:05.692 --> 00:06:08.342 way, bad way, or good way, better way. 00:06:08.365 --> 00:06:11.125 just flat out wrong, like there's no such a thing as that. 00:06:12.250 --> 00:06:12.940 CJ: Yes. 00:06:12.983 --> 00:06:14.033 the hallucinations. 00:06:14.273 --> 00:06:19.493 And I, do think, do that while AI will help, folks who are new 00:06:19.493 --> 00:06:21.563 to this get onboarded quicker. 00:06:22.133 --> 00:06:27.053 I think it will help the folks who are already pros at this so much more. 00:06:27.303 --> 00:06:30.220 And I, said this when I was in the Creator Con keynote a couple years 00:06:30.220 --> 00:06:36.020 ago, AI helps me, 10 x my skillset, a lot easier than I think it helps you 00:06:36.020 --> 00:06:38.000 know, someone new 10 x their skillset. 00:06:38.330 --> 00:06:43.900 Now if you think about that, and my skillset is already 10 x someone 00:06:43.900 --> 00:06:49.553 new, So now AI has just given me an almost insurmountable edge 00:06:49.637 --> 00:06:51.767 over someone new in the ecosystem. 00:06:52.157 --> 00:06:53.957 And what does that mean? 00:06:54.413 --> 00:06:55.043 I don't know. 00:06:56.668 --> 00:06:57.383 You know what I mean? 00:06:57.443 --> 00:07:01.103 Like I don't know what it means, but I mean, I think it's good for me. 00:07:01.373 --> 00:07:02.873 Is it good for the ecosystem? 00:07:03.053 --> 00:07:03.563 Maybe? 00:07:04.643 --> 00:07:05.213 I don't know. 00:07:05.298 --> 00:07:05.718 Mm-hmm. 00:07:06.463 --> 00:07:09.883 Duke: as a few of you already know, I am no longer a freelancer. 00:07:09.883 --> 00:07:11.143 I actually took a job at mothership. 00:07:11.397 --> 00:07:14.773 And that question came up at an internal conference legit? 00:07:14.773 --> 00:07:16.183 Is AI gonna replace us or not? 00:07:16.183 --> 00:07:19.633 And one of the very, very, very, very senior leaders 00:07:21.763 --> 00:07:28.040 basically said, okay, let's just assume that AI makes everybody five x better. 00:07:28.543 --> 00:07:30.463 Everybody just gets a five x uplift. 00:07:31.058 --> 00:07:32.138 And he says, great. 00:07:32.588 --> 00:07:33.998 Maybe now, 00:07:36.038 --> 00:07:40.995 maybe now we'll be able to meet the requests that are coming in. 00:07:41.075 --> 00:07:41.315 CJ: Right. 00:07:41.700 --> 00:07:43.987 Duke: in terms of the things the, market wants. 00:07:44.317 --> 00:07:47.407 And so the impression there was no, 00:07:47.457 --> 00:07:51.357 the amount of work anybody can do is just gonna be magnified, but there's 00:07:51.357 --> 00:07:55.775 still a lot more work than there are, resources to, fulfill it all. 00:07:56.198 --> 00:07:59.378 But you're right, it's still like, , take somebody who's just a middle of 00:07:59.378 --> 00:08:03.278 the pack developer outta all those people and they get a five x uplift. 00:08:03.868 --> 00:08:04.158 CJ: Yeah. 00:08:04.718 --> 00:08:08.438 Duke: But that means the difference between that person and a beginner is 00:08:08.438 --> 00:08:10.478 five times more than it used to be. 00:08:10.748 --> 00:08:11.648 CJ: Yes, 00:08:12.938 --> 00:08:13.478 Duke: Maybe. 00:08:13.568 --> 00:08:14.138 Maybe. 00:08:14.138 --> 00:08:14.528 I don't know. 00:08:14.528 --> 00:08:16.598 I don't know, but like, maybe I'm not thinking about this, right? 00:08:17.648 --> 00:08:18.938 Maybe I'm not thinking about this right? 00:08:19.178 --> 00:08:19.628 I don't know. 00:08:20.163 --> 00:08:21.273 CJ: That's what I think, dude. 00:08:21.273 --> 00:08:24.750 I mean, if I'm already 10 x, a, new person, right? 00:08:24.924 --> 00:08:29.669 let's say , you can get 10 times the value working with me, then you can. 00:08:30.709 --> 00:08:32.359 Working with someone new to the ecosystem. 00:08:32.359 --> 00:08:33.949 And that's probably an understatement. 00:08:33.949 --> 00:08:34.369 Honestly. 00:08:34.369 --> 00:08:36.199 It's probably, it's probably more than that. 00:08:36.519 --> 00:08:39.069 And I say that it sounds a little cocky, but it's kind of true. 00:08:39.309 --> 00:08:39.639 Um. 00:08:45.864 --> 00:08:46.224 Duke: Arrogant. 00:08:48.334 --> 00:08:48.634 CJ: Yeah. 00:08:48.634 --> 00:08:49.204 Whatever. 00:08:49.627 --> 00:08:50.587 we're vibing with it. 00:08:52.867 --> 00:08:55.104 But then, if you 10 x me, right? 00:08:55.104 --> 00:08:59.424 Like now I'm a hundred x versus the baseline and then you 10 x the new person. 00:08:59.667 --> 00:09:02.817 I still feel like that golf now is way bigger. 00:09:03.030 --> 00:09:05.100 I don't know what the math looks like right When we was writing that 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:08.317 equation out, the golf probably, maybe on paper still looks the same. 00:09:08.317 --> 00:09:09.337 It's not the same though. 00:09:09.612 --> 00:09:11.322 It is not the same. 00:09:11.322 --> 00:09:15.782 when you 10 x amazing versus 10 x, beginner. 00:09:15.832 --> 00:09:18.052 It completely obliterates the scale. 00:09:18.622 --> 00:09:20.482 Duke: Could we maybe do a thought exercise? 00:09:21.302 --> 00:09:27.212 at the very beginning you would be like, that geometrically better. 00:09:27.262 --> 00:09:30.592 But, but that only lasts a certain amount of time until they get 00:09:30.592 --> 00:09:32.182 into like a five x baseline. 00:09:32.752 --> 00:09:33.042 CJ: True. 00:09:33.247 --> 00:09:39.572 Duke: So how can we think of ways AI could help a ServiceNow beginner? 00:09:40.581 --> 00:09:40.701 CJ: Hmm. 00:09:41.002 --> 00:09:41.302 Yeah. 00:09:41.302 --> 00:09:42.082 Good question. 00:09:42.962 --> 00:09:45.999 Duke: I would say it can't be you, the vacuum and the ai, right? 00:09:46.149 --> 00:09:47.199 that's not gonna work. 00:09:47.299 --> 00:09:49.480 You still need a mentor or a community. 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:51.877 You can ask to cross-reference the ai. 00:09:51.907 --> 00:09:54.637 But I think like someone can still prompt the AI. 00:09:54.790 --> 00:09:58.517 look at its output and try to interpret it. 00:09:58.864 --> 00:10:00.514 Ask AI to explain it. 00:10:00.514 --> 00:10:01.984 Ask it if it's sure. 00:10:02.404 --> 00:10:05.530 And then ask a community, is this legit? 00:10:05.554 --> 00:10:06.149 is this the right answer? 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:08.679 CJ: Yeah, so that's the thing, right? 00:10:08.919 --> 00:10:15.759 When you're new to ai, I think you depend heavily on AI being correct or having a 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:18.939 way to confirm that the AI is correct. 00:10:19.209 --> 00:10:25.106 And the question is, does that add more time to your learning process or less? 00:10:25.313 --> 00:10:28.053 I wonder, does it make the knowledge that you get more durable? 00:10:28.379 --> 00:10:32.797 I feel like for me it probably makes you better, even if it 00:10:32.797 --> 00:10:35.947 takes a little bit longer, even though I'm not sure that it would. 00:10:36.007 --> 00:10:37.717 And the reason I say that is because. 00:10:37.831 --> 00:10:40.981 If you get knowledge and then you have to understand if that knowledge 00:10:40.981 --> 00:10:45.971 is correct by cross-checking it, you're learning, And validating. 00:10:46.001 --> 00:10:48.024 And that's kind of how you learn. 00:10:48.187 --> 00:10:49.267 at least it's how I learn, right? 00:10:49.267 --> 00:10:52.807 Like, troubleshooting is really the way that I've learned most concepts. 00:10:52.841 --> 00:10:57.281 and the way that I learned them quickest and how they persist with me. 00:10:57.467 --> 00:10:59.177 so I think of this as kind of like. 00:10:59.882 --> 00:11:02.382 A newbie getting in and they start using ai. 00:11:02.752 --> 00:11:04.162 They've got troubleshoot that teaching 00:11:04.582 --> 00:11:05.152 Duke: yeah. 00:11:05.557 --> 00:11:06.157 CJ: learning from 00:11:06.172 --> 00:11:07.522 Duke: gotta do that anyway, right? 00:11:07.522 --> 00:11:07.822 Like I 00:11:08.082 --> 00:11:08.887 CJ: Well, do they? 00:11:09.052 --> 00:11:09.382 Duke: everybody. 00:11:09.717 --> 00:11:13.001 I think so, I'm still learning where I can trust the prompt 00:11:13.001 --> 00:11:14.471 and where I have to be careful. 00:11:14.571 --> 00:11:14.861 CJ: Sure. 00:11:15.186 --> 00:11:17.376 Duke: I haven't got to the gut feel level of that yet. 00:11:18.051 --> 00:11:18.341 CJ: Yeah. 00:11:18.426 --> 00:11:21.156 Duke: I'm using prompts, I feel like everybody's gotta start 00:11:21.156 --> 00:11:22.836 doing that as part of their job. 00:11:23.076 --> 00:11:26.327 And so Maybe it is a productivity Tax on the newcomers. 00:11:26.604 --> 00:11:29.124 Well, it used to be I, I just learned ServiceNow, but now 00:11:29.124 --> 00:11:32.904 I've gotta learn ServiceNow in parallel with learning the ai. 00:11:33.144 --> 00:11:35.754 But there's gotta be a way for AI to accelerate something else. 00:11:35.754 --> 00:11:38.731 Like, oh, what's another example is you ever have those people that message you 00:11:38.731 --> 00:11:42.301 on LinkedIn and they're like, Hey, can you send me a whole bunch of practical 00:11:42.301 --> 00:11:43.921 examples for me to do on ServiceNow? 00:11:44.716 --> 00:11:45.826 CJ: Oh yeah, absolutely. 00:11:46.161 --> 00:11:48.831 Duke: can you tell me to build an app or can you tell me a whole 00:11:48.831 --> 00:11:52.191 requirement of an implementation so I could do, it's like, wow, I really 00:11:52.191 --> 00:11:54.231 appreciate that, that's what they want. 00:11:54.231 --> 00:11:59.511 But that is a ridiculous amount of work that no, I'm not doing for you. 00:11:59.511 --> 00:12:00.231 I'm sorry, 00:12:02.151 --> 00:12:03.501 CJ: a lot of unpaid labor. 00:12:04.011 --> 00:12:06.351 Duke: I don't mean to be rude, but you have no idea what you're 00:12:06.351 --> 00:12:08.361 asking me to do here, but. 00:12:09.411 --> 00:12:10.881 AI doesn't get tired, right? 00:12:11.091 --> 00:12:11.421 CJ: True. 00:12:11.937 --> 00:12:14.797 Duke: let's actually, okay, lemme pop open chat chip. 00:12:15.957 --> 00:12:17.607 CJ: Yeah, I mean, 'cause typically what do you do? 00:12:17.767 --> 00:12:20.677 right now I send them to, to developer do servicenow.com 00:12:20.917 --> 00:12:22.057 or to now learning. 00:12:22.157 --> 00:12:27.217 And I feel like between those two, know, there's a lot of practical exercises and, 00:12:27.217 --> 00:12:28.807 teaching that, get someone on their way. 00:12:29.272 --> 00:12:30.712 but then what do you do after that? 00:12:30.712 --> 00:12:30.832 Right? 00:12:30.832 --> 00:12:33.412 Because there is always an after that it's typically not 00:12:33.412 --> 00:12:34.822 enough, especially when you knew. 00:12:35.032 --> 00:12:38.782 I think what new people suffer from most is a lack of confidence more 00:12:38.782 --> 00:12:40.462 than it is a lack of understanding. 00:12:40.922 --> 00:12:45.535 And so even when they probably have enough knowledge and 00:12:45.535 --> 00:12:47.455 understanding about the material to. 00:12:47.492 --> 00:12:48.662 Get them going. 00:12:48.662 --> 00:12:50.282 They probably still feel like they don't. 00:12:50.282 --> 00:12:53.672 And so they're always looking for that next exercise or that next exercise 00:12:53.942 --> 00:12:56.762 and something to validate that they actually know what they're doing. 00:12:56.929 --> 00:13:01.189 And I think that's where those requests from, Hey, can you send me the blah, blah, 00:13:01.189 --> 00:13:06.595 blah, blah comes from, and but that's a lot to actually create those exercises. 00:13:07.629 --> 00:13:10.449 , Duke: We've never done this before, like read the results of chat GPT. 00:13:10.479 --> 00:13:10.719 Okay. 00:13:10.719 --> 00:13:10.869 So 00:13:11.574 --> 00:13:12.414 CJ: All right, here we go. 00:13:12.579 --> 00:13:14.950 Duke: I'll, I'll actually make a link to it and then people can. 00:13:15.194 --> 00:13:16.034 You can do that, right? 00:13:16.034 --> 00:13:16.669 CJ: Yeah, you can do that. 00:13:17.474 --> 00:13:17.774 Duke: Okay. 00:13:17.774 --> 00:13:21.074 So I basically said this might be a bad prompt, but we'll just, we'll see. 00:13:21.884 --> 00:13:24.284 You are a service telling chat, GPT. 00:13:24.284 --> 00:13:25.364 You are a ServiceNow trainer. 00:13:25.514 --> 00:13:28.934 Explain an easy to understand example of what a script include is. 00:13:29.144 --> 00:13:32.295 Once you're done, can you create a few exercises for me to do? 00:13:32.787 --> 00:13:33.077 CJ: Okay. 00:13:33.372 --> 00:13:34.242 Duke: what does a script include? 00:13:34.242 --> 00:13:37.842 A script include in ServiceNow is like a reusable toolbox of code. 00:13:38.442 --> 00:13:42.372 It's server side, JavaScript runs on the server, not in the user's browser. 00:13:42.552 --> 00:13:46.872 You can define functions and logic once, then reuse 'em anywhere in ServiceNow, 00:13:46.872 --> 00:13:51.312 business rules, UI actions, workflows, flow designer actions, et cetera. 00:13:51.552 --> 00:13:54.522 And it helps you keep your code organized, reusable, and 00:13:54.522 --> 00:13:56.142 easy to maintain on the whole. 00:13:56.192 --> 00:13:56.942 Pretty close. 00:13:57.197 --> 00:13:57.617 CJ: Yeah. 00:13:57.662 --> 00:13:57.882 Yep. 00:13:58.052 --> 00:13:59.792 Duke: Except your client callable as well. 00:14:01.092 --> 00:14:01.382 CJ: Yeah. 00:14:01.862 --> 00:14:02.552 Duke: server side. 00:14:02.962 --> 00:14:03.322 Okay. 00:14:03.322 --> 00:14:04.402 Everyday analogy. 00:14:04.672 --> 00:14:06.142 Imagine you're building a house. 00:14:06.142 --> 00:14:07.942 You have tools like a hammer saw on a drill. 00:14:07.942 --> 00:14:11.062 Instead of buying a new hammer every time you need one, you keep 00:14:11.062 --> 00:14:12.502 them in a toolbox and reuse 'em. 00:14:12.502 --> 00:14:15.082 And ServiceNow, the script include is the toolbox. 00:14:15.532 --> 00:14:18.112 Each function inside of it is like a specific tool. 00:14:18.112 --> 00:14:21.987 Any part of the platform can open the toolbox and use this tool. 00:14:23.069 --> 00:14:23.399 CJ: Fair. 00:14:23.802 --> 00:14:24.312 Duke: Not bad. 00:14:25.152 --> 00:14:28.722 Simple example, let's say you often need to calculate the number of days 00:14:28.722 --> 00:14:32.532 between two dates instead of writing the same date difference code everywhere. 00:14:32.532 --> 00:14:34.872 You can put it in a script include, okay? 00:14:34.872 --> 00:14:39.461 And then they give what appears to be, well formatted script include, 00:14:39.660 --> 00:14:42.270 don't necessarily like this example though, because it's like don't they 00:14:42.270 --> 00:14:43.740 have the glide daytime query for that? 00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:45.150 But anyway. 00:14:45.450 --> 00:14:49.080 CJ: Man, time, date coding, uh, kryptonite. 00:14:50.625 --> 00:14:53.595 Duke: Now anywhere in ServiceNow you can do, and it shows an example of writing 00:14:53.625 --> 00:14:57.112 like summoning that script include, When to you use the script include when you 00:14:57.112 --> 00:15:01.192 have complex logic that might be used in multiple places when you want clean 00:15:01.192 --> 00:15:03.502 organized code instead of copy pasting. 00:15:03.802 --> 00:15:04.612 Amen to that. 00:15:04.942 --> 00:15:07.762 When you want a share functionality between business rules, amen. 00:15:07.762 --> 00:15:08.362 Double amen. 00:15:08.362 --> 00:15:09.052 Triple amen. 00:15:09.112 --> 00:15:11.692 When you want a share functionality between business rules, UI actions, 00:15:11.692 --> 00:15:16.342 flow designer, et cetera, okay, exercises, hello world toolbox. 00:15:16.342 --> 00:15:18.232 Create a script include called My utils. 00:15:18.232 --> 00:15:19.462 Inside it, create a function. 00:15:19.942 --> 00:15:20.842 Say hello. 00:15:20.842 --> 00:15:22.252 That returns, hello name. 00:15:22.912 --> 00:15:26.941 Test it from a background script tells you, actually shows you two math helper. 00:15:26.941 --> 00:15:27.661 Create a script. 00:15:27.661 --> 00:15:29.461 I swear to God this was mine. 00:15:32.671 --> 00:15:35.011 This is what I tell my students to build, is just put a bunch 00:15:35.011 --> 00:15:36.421 of math functions into a script. 00:15:36.421 --> 00:15:36.841 Include 00:15:37.531 --> 00:15:38.466 CJ: You're mining your data. 00:15:39.031 --> 00:15:41.521 Duke: Yeah, that's what you're welcome. 00:15:41.521 --> 00:15:41.971 Chat chip. 00:15:43.561 --> 00:15:45.331 Create a script include called Math helper. 00:15:45.391 --> 00:15:49.081 Add to functions, add X to Y, multiply X and Y. 00:15:49.221 --> 00:15:51.501 Test it from a business rule or a background script. 00:15:51.930 --> 00:15:52.710 Date differences. 00:15:52.710 --> 00:15:54.150 Again, no, don't do that as a beginner. 00:15:55.230 --> 00:15:55.530 CJ: Yeah. 00:15:56.310 --> 00:15:58.200 Duke: And then would you like me to give you step by step 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:00.030 instructions for the first exercise? 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:02.130 Jump straight to the next level, like making a script. 00:16:02.130 --> 00:16:05.730 Include callable from client scripts via glide Ajax, which sounds better. 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:07.140 So that isn't bad. 00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:08.550 CJ: No, it's pretty good. 00:16:09.540 --> 00:16:11.890 Duke: I mean, it gave a decent explanation. 00:16:12.970 --> 00:16:14.440 Enough to get you started, right? 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:15.820 Like it's not like you're gonna know. 00:16:15.820 --> 00:16:18.160 The entire vital essence of script includes 00:16:19.065 --> 00:16:20.835 CJ: Yeah, but let me tell you what that just did for me. 00:16:20.835 --> 00:16:22.635 Even just listening to you read it right. 00:16:23.325 --> 00:16:24.555 A great refresher. 00:16:24.555 --> 00:16:26.115 Oh, what a script they include is, 00:16:28.215 --> 00:16:31.351 even though I'm a consultant, even though I'm an architect, I'm still hands on. 00:16:31.351 --> 00:16:31.501 Right. 00:16:31.501 --> 00:16:33.001 I'm still building, I'm still writing code. 00:16:33.271 --> 00:16:33.421 Right. 00:16:33.421 --> 00:16:38.601 So I, I do, I use scripting clues a lot, but sometimes people get to a level where 00:16:38.601 --> 00:16:40.958 we are Duke and, they stop writing code. 00:16:41.108 --> 00:16:44.718 And they're more, advisory and they're more, you know, architect and 00:16:44.718 --> 00:16:47.148 they're designing the solutions, but they're not actually building them. 00:16:47.448 --> 00:16:48.198 But then they might need to. 00:16:49.203 --> 00:16:52.510 And like, I don't think a script include is probably something 00:16:52.510 --> 00:16:54.430 that folks, would forget. 00:16:54.460 --> 00:16:57.700 But there are probably other things that folks might need a refresher on 00:16:57.776 --> 00:17:01.126 that level of summary, but also detail. 00:17:01.311 --> 00:17:05.061 Feels like something that would be really beneficial to someone 00:17:05.061 --> 00:17:06.141 who is getting their sea. 00:17:06.561 --> 00:17:07.581 Getting their sea wings again. 00:17:07.641 --> 00:17:08.181 Is that a thing? 00:17:08.181 --> 00:17:08.841 Sea wings? 00:17:09.081 --> 00:17:09.501 I don't know. 00:17:09.711 --> 00:17:11.301 Who's sea legs. 00:17:11.391 --> 00:17:11.871 Thank you. 00:17:12.051 --> 00:17:13.341 Who's getting their sea legs again? 00:17:13.341 --> 00:17:13.611 Right? 00:17:13.611 --> 00:17:15.021 You haven't been on the boat in a while. 00:17:15.231 --> 00:17:16.191 You back on the boat. 00:17:16.641 --> 00:17:17.721 How does this thing work? 00:17:18.411 --> 00:17:19.851 Give me that in five minutes. 00:17:19.881 --> 00:17:20.931 Five minutes later. 00:17:21.021 --> 00:17:22.011 Oh yeah, that's right. 00:17:22.161 --> 00:17:24.291 I remember this now, and now you're back in the saddle. 00:17:25.182 --> 00:17:25.882 Duke: Oh, dude. 00:17:25.952 --> 00:17:26.507 Okay, so 00:17:28.577 --> 00:17:31.817 just for the giggles, I, said I'm a 15 year veteran of ServiceNow. 00:17:31.847 --> 00:17:34.877 Tell me something about script Includes, I don't already know. 00:17:35.492 --> 00:17:35.972 CJ: Okay. 00:17:36.872 --> 00:17:40.112 Duke: Number one, lazy loading versus preloaded script includes. 00:17:40.172 --> 00:17:40.532 Yep. 00:17:41.432 --> 00:17:42.482 CJ: Did not know that. 00:17:42.482 --> 00:17:43.052 All right. 00:17:43.107 --> 00:17:43.457 We're. 00:17:43.472 --> 00:17:45.962 Duke: Did you, did you know, here we go. 00:17:46.142 --> 00:17:47.132 Assuming it's right. 00:17:47.342 --> 00:17:51.302 So what we would do, take note of this, if you're a beginner, the first thing I 00:17:51.302 --> 00:17:55.772 would do is try and understand this, then go ask my friend John Dahl, if it's right. 00:17:56.072 --> 00:17:56.552 CJ: Yeah. 00:17:56.552 --> 00:17:56.997 There you go. 00:17:57.567 --> 00:17:58.397 Shout out to John. 00:17:58.922 --> 00:17:59.852 Duke: shout to John. 00:18:00.557 --> 00:18:03.857 Did you know you can control when a script include is loaded into memory by default, 00:18:03.857 --> 00:18:05.477 most script includes are lazy loaded. 00:18:05.477 --> 00:18:08.477 They're only parsed loaded the first time they're called. 00:18:08.837 --> 00:18:12.137 But you can preload a client script by checking the client 00:18:12.137 --> 00:18:15.797 callable box, even if you don't actually call it from the client. 00:18:16.151 --> 00:18:16.371 CJ: Huh? 00:18:16.501 --> 00:18:18.601 Duke: What, why? 00:18:19.111 --> 00:18:21.451 This is the, the very next section, why should you care? 00:18:22.046 --> 00:18:22.266 CJ: Yes. 00:18:23.956 --> 00:18:27.526 Duke: If you have heavy classes that multiple things use. 00:18:27.556 --> 00:18:31.156 Preloading can improve performance by avoiding multiple load calls. 00:18:31.546 --> 00:18:35.746 Conversely, for rarely used classes, keeping them lazy, saves memory. 00:18:36.071 --> 00:18:38.621 CJ: So, if you have a utility script that's being called by a lot of 00:18:38.621 --> 00:18:41.801 different things, you might wanna check the client box anyway, so it 00:18:41.801 --> 00:18:43.621 gets loaded into, , instance memory. 00:18:43.621 --> 00:18:47.011 So it's already available so you don't have to have all these other 00:18:47.011 --> 00:18:48.241 scripts that are gonna call the script. 00:18:48.241 --> 00:18:51.854 Include, making those loads and having it, um, repeat over and over again. 00:18:52.589 --> 00:18:56.909 Because I assume that if that client check box is not checked, 00:18:57.209 --> 00:18:59.549 then a script will reach out. 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:05.129 It will then load the script, include, use the function, and then unload from memory. 00:19:05.189 --> 00:19:07.499 That seems to be the implication there. 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:12.779 But by checking, yeah, by checking the client box, it doesn't unload, so you 00:19:12.779 --> 00:19:16.349 never have to do all of those subsequent loads from the different scripts. 00:19:17.054 --> 00:19:20.144 Duke: Yeah, so we'll have the link to this little conversation I had with 00:19:20.144 --> 00:19:23.264 Chad Chip because there's like, there's like seven or eight of these things. 00:19:23.264 --> 00:19:23.954 Some of 'em I knew. 00:19:23.954 --> 00:19:26.714 Others are like, wow, this might be a little bit too out there for me. 00:19:26.714 --> 00:19:31.244 But at any rate, I think what we're proving on the fly here is 00:19:31.244 --> 00:19:36.462 that it can be a powerful learning tool if you, what would we say if 00:19:36.462 --> 00:19:38.382 we just distrust it just enough? 00:19:39.372 --> 00:19:39.972 CJ: Yes. 00:19:41.082 --> 00:19:42.042 Duke: Like absorb it. 00:19:42.132 --> 00:19:43.572 See if you can understand it. 00:19:43.632 --> 00:19:44.922 Ask it to explain. 00:19:45.312 --> 00:19:46.662 That's one thing I love about it, right? 00:19:46.662 --> 00:19:49.482 You could just, you'd be like, no, explain it to me again. 00:19:49.482 --> 00:19:54.262 Use a different metaphor like gimme editor exercise, and it will do 00:19:54.262 --> 00:19:57.862 that tirelessly like a human is just gonna wear out with your questions. 00:19:58.912 --> 00:20:00.422 CJ: Yeah, so that is the thing, right? 00:20:00.422 --> 00:20:02.642 So if we're going back to like, how you use this to actually 00:20:02.642 --> 00:20:08.252 help, you can incessantly ask it, to elaborate more detail. 00:20:08.562 --> 00:20:09.702 Give me another one. 00:20:09.912 --> 00:20:15.329 Focus on just only this thing, if you are persistent enough and creative enough, 00:20:15.532 --> 00:20:19.582 you can use it as a personal tutor that targets your individual deficiencies and 00:20:19.582 --> 00:20:24.612 your individual curiosity, In a way that you can't get from a mentor in a way 00:20:24.612 --> 00:20:29.182 that you can't get from a teacher, in a way that you can't get from, practically 00:20:29.182 --> 00:20:34.036 any other human that you're not paying, like, a lot of money to, to indulge you. 00:20:34.216 --> 00:20:37.096 That is worth probably its weight in gold. 00:20:37.392 --> 00:20:37.752 Duke: Okay. 00:20:37.902 --> 00:20:39.132 Another experiment here. 00:20:39.577 --> 00:20:41.917 it's one thing to just have a tool in the toolbox and just 00:20:41.917 --> 00:20:42.787 say, what the heck is this? 00:20:42.787 --> 00:20:43.627 Like a basin wrench? 00:20:43.627 --> 00:20:44.587 First time I saw one of those. 00:20:44.587 --> 00:20:44.887 What? 00:20:46.152 --> 00:20:46.472 CJ: A who? 00:20:46.507 --> 00:20:47.077 Duke: I used it. 00:20:47.527 --> 00:20:47.887 Yeah. 00:20:48.277 --> 00:20:52.637 But what about so another prompt I just did, I'm trying to learn ServiceNow. 00:20:52.637 --> 00:20:54.677 Could you give a suite of common requirements? 00:20:54.677 --> 00:20:57.587 People might have to deploy ITSM on ServiceNow. 00:20:57.797 --> 00:21:00.887 I want to use these as stories to develop them on my PDI. 00:21:01.367 --> 00:21:02.147 Is that a good prompt? 00:21:02.378 --> 00:21:02.668 CJ: Yeah. 00:21:03.008 --> 00:21:04.448 Duke: It's decent enough, I guess, right? 00:21:04.448 --> 00:21:04.658 We could 00:21:04.658 --> 00:21:04.948 CJ: Yeah. 00:21:05.153 --> 00:21:05.633 Close enough. 00:21:05.633 --> 00:21:05.873 Yeah. 00:21:06.263 --> 00:21:08.033 And what I like about it right, is the pro, your prompt 00:21:08.033 --> 00:21:08.903 doesn't have to be perfect. 00:21:08.903 --> 00:21:12.813 Cla uh, chat, GPT and the other AI models too, right, are have, are 00:21:12.813 --> 00:21:16.623 really good at interpreting your meaning, even when it's imperfect. 00:21:17.045 --> 00:21:18.665 Duke: this is actually pretty hot, man. 00:21:18.725 --> 00:21:20.345 Like really? 00:21:20.525 --> 00:21:22.625 I didn't, I didn't expect it to be this good. 00:21:22.625 --> 00:21:22.685 So. 00:21:24.935 --> 00:21:25.415 So, 00:21:25.655 --> 00:21:29.615 CJ: in real time, we are watching as the Duke discovers ai. 00:21:31.925 --> 00:21:32.315 Duke: okay. 00:21:32.315 --> 00:21:36.815 So it gave me the current affluent encouragement and a pat 00:21:36.815 --> 00:21:38.675 on the back that chat, GPT does. 00:21:38.959 --> 00:21:41.629 And then it says incident management stories. 00:21:41.629 --> 00:21:41.749 Okay. 00:21:41.779 --> 00:21:43.189 I'll just read the headings from there. 00:21:43.189 --> 00:21:48.989 And auto assign incidents based on category priority calculation rule. 00:21:49.289 --> 00:21:50.069 Hmm. 00:21:50.162 --> 00:21:51.712 That already pre-exists, doesn't it? 00:21:52.192 --> 00:21:55.427 CJ: Yeah, I mean, there's a whole like a, there's a whole module for that. 00:21:56.492 --> 00:21:59.882 Duke: SLA for P one incidents, email notification for VIP 00:21:59.882 --> 00:22:02.672 users Dynamic incident form. 00:22:02.672 --> 00:22:05.462 If the incident category equals hardware display an extra field 00:22:05.462 --> 00:22:06.752 called device serial number. 00:22:06.877 --> 00:22:07.167 Okay. 00:22:07.827 --> 00:22:08.047 CJ: Yep. 00:22:09.347 --> 00:22:12.602 Duke: There're at least, simple things that you can apply 00:22:12.602 --> 00:22:14.102 the tool knowledge to, right? 00:22:14.567 --> 00:22:17.707 CJ: And allow you to build on them, which is good. 00:22:18.507 --> 00:22:21.567 Duke: this got a whole other section for problem management, for change management. 00:22:21.927 --> 00:22:26.727 Auto link incidents to problems, problem review, workflow, known error knowledge 00:22:26.727 --> 00:22:31.687 base change management stuff, enforce cab approval for high risk changes. 00:22:31.856 --> 00:22:32.936 that would be a deep dive. 00:22:33.266 --> 00:22:35.156 Change management flows are crazy. 00:22:35.676 --> 00:22:36.096 CJ: Oh man. 00:22:36.096 --> 00:22:37.926 The new stuff though are, is great. 00:22:38.112 --> 00:22:39.852 change models and approval rules. 00:22:40.887 --> 00:22:42.437 That stuff is kick ass. 00:22:43.127 --> 00:22:45.612 Duke: Uh, how new is change in. 00:22:45.957 --> 00:22:48.744 CJ: Not like new, new, but new-ish, I guess. 00:22:48.744 --> 00:22:50.364 La I don't know. 00:22:50.364 --> 00:22:51.894 My, my concept of time is horrible. 00:22:51.984 --> 00:22:53.764 Last year or two maybe longer than that. 00:22:53.764 --> 00:22:54.184 I don't know. 00:22:54.664 --> 00:22:56.734 For me last year or two is what it feels like. 00:22:57.634 --> 00:22:58.444 Duke: Isn't that crazy? 00:22:58.444 --> 00:23:00.844 Like last year was like five minutes ago without, 00:23:01.204 --> 00:23:01.654 CJ: Yeah. 00:23:01.654 --> 00:23:01.984 Yeah. 00:23:02.524 --> 00:23:03.664 Duke: we've been on it so long. 00:23:03.664 --> 00:23:04.624 Last year's, nothing. 00:23:05.764 --> 00:23:08.104 CJ: Yeah, somebody's, when we release this dude, somebody's 00:23:08.104 --> 00:23:10.684 gonna post a comment and it's like, yeah, no, that came out in Berlin. 00:23:11.824 --> 00:23:12.994 Duke: Yeah, seriously. 00:23:13.444 --> 00:23:13.654 Wow. 00:23:13.869 --> 00:23:16.539 Even old timers like us get it wrong every once in a while 00:23:16.749 --> 00:23:17.349 CJ: Yeah, 00:23:17.409 --> 00:23:19.869 Duke: and we haven't met a quota for one mistake per year. 00:23:19.869 --> 00:23:20.079 So. 00:23:20.829 --> 00:23:21.549 CJ: working on it. 00:23:23.604 --> 00:23:24.804 Duke: So this is actually pretty good. 00:23:24.804 --> 00:23:29.274 So it, I mean, service request, catalog item, a new laptop request, autofill user 00:23:29.274 --> 00:23:31.554 info, and a catalog item bundle request. 00:23:31.554 --> 00:23:31.854 Man. 00:23:31.854 --> 00:23:33.474 Have you ever used bundles in catalog? 00:23:33.994 --> 00:23:35.914 CJ: Yes I have, but not often. 00:23:36.124 --> 00:23:37.294 And probably only once. 00:23:40.149 --> 00:23:40.849 Duke: Man, there's like a. 00:23:40.914 --> 00:23:45.504 decade long gap between, I was just like, you ever read something and 00:23:45.504 --> 00:23:48.234 it's like, oh yeah, that was a thing. 00:23:48.549 --> 00:23:48.899 CJ: Right. 00:23:49.699 --> 00:23:52.639 That's a long time ago, dude, that, that reminds me of Wizards. 00:23:52.729 --> 00:23:53.779 Remember Wizards 00:23:54.049 --> 00:23:55.129 Duke: I love wizards. 00:23:55.249 --> 00:23:59.059 I like, I just broke my heart when they deprecated them. 00:23:59.359 --> 00:23:59.659 CJ: yeah. 00:23:59.659 --> 00:24:00.619 There's so much potential there. 00:24:00.619 --> 00:24:02.544 They were buggy, but they were great. 00:24:02.604 --> 00:24:03.544 If you can get 'em working. 00:24:03.919 --> 00:24:04.249 Duke: Oh yeah. 00:24:04.249 --> 00:24:06.019 I mean, messy too, right? 00:24:06.019 --> 00:24:10.129 Like when you were, wizard page would transition to another, . It wouldn't have 00:24:10.129 --> 00:24:11.479 the page name, it would only have a sis I, 00:24:11.954 --> 00:24:12.244 CJ: yeah, 00:24:12.979 --> 00:24:16.159 Duke: so we were like manually sewing these things together on their SI 00:24:16.159 --> 00:24:18.919 society, but oh man, was it ever good? 00:24:18.949 --> 00:24:19.129 Okay. 00:24:19.129 --> 00:24:23.311 For those of you who weren't here for wizards, It was like a choose 00:24:23.311 --> 00:24:25.321 your own adventure for the catalog. 00:24:25.761 --> 00:24:26.051 CJ: Yeah. 00:24:26.941 --> 00:24:29.581 Duke: So it would start off on a page and it would ask you a bunch of questions and 00:24:29.581 --> 00:24:33.124 then based off the answers on that page, you can go to another page and another 00:24:33.124 --> 00:24:35.134 page and another page and another page. 00:24:35.434 --> 00:24:37.564 And the end points were a lot more flexible. 00:24:37.564 --> 00:24:41.251 So it wasn't like, oh, you answered the questions and you get, either 00:24:41.491 --> 00:24:45.181 a rhythm and an SC task or whatever thing the record producer is for. 00:24:45.421 --> 00:24:47.046 The endpoint for this thing could be. 00:24:47.731 --> 00:24:52.141 A record, like a record producer, or go to a knowledge article or go to some other 00:24:52.141 --> 00:24:54.451 page, or just pull up a record or a list 00:24:55.611 --> 00:24:59.345 CJ: Yeah, honestly, I, what it feels a lot like is a order guide, 00:24:59.375 --> 00:25:01.295 but a self-contained order guide. 00:25:01.478 --> 00:25:02.348 if that even makes sense. 00:25:02.348 --> 00:25:03.333 I'm not even sure that that does. 00:25:04.253 --> 00:25:05.393 I think, you know what I mean? 00:25:05.393 --> 00:25:08.453 Like with the way that you land on an order guide, and 00:25:08.543 --> 00:25:09.533 order guide has questions. 00:25:09.533 --> 00:25:12.293 You ask the questions, and then it generates like, oh, based 00:25:12.293 --> 00:25:14.393 on what you answered, these are the things that you need to do. 00:25:14.543 --> 00:25:17.243 Except the wizard was like an order guide on steroids, right? 00:25:17.393 --> 00:25:20.093 Because you can go through several iterations of that 00:25:20.303 --> 00:25:23.243 before you finally needed to dump somebody off at a destination. 00:25:23.993 --> 00:25:26.603 Duke: But I think where an order guide could say, okay, well we 00:25:26.603 --> 00:25:30.623 met all 10 of these conditions and therefore run 10 rhythms off of it. 00:25:30.758 --> 00:25:31.148 CJ: Right. 00:25:31.943 --> 00:25:35.423 Duke: I think the wizard was like a single endpoint, but the fact you didn't 00:25:35.423 --> 00:25:38.193 necessarily have to end at a task. 00:25:38.353 --> 00:25:41.383 You could end it in knowledge article and it, I loved that. 00:25:41.413 --> 00:25:43.093 I loved love, love, love, loved that. 00:25:43.123 --> 00:25:44.268 But it's gone now, so. 00:25:45.358 --> 00:25:48.598 CJ: It's somehow this is like, this just got like really relevant to 00:25:48.598 --> 00:25:50.128 something I'm doing with a client, right? 00:25:50.128 --> 00:25:54.028 Where we're working a lot on case deflection and just thinking about 00:25:54.028 --> 00:25:56.965 that, a wizard of what you just described as case deflection. 00:25:56.965 --> 00:25:57.145 All right. 00:25:57.145 --> 00:26:00.925 So let's, let's walk through these questions, did you do a, did you do B? 00:26:00.925 --> 00:26:02.305 Did three, did C happen? 00:26:02.305 --> 00:26:04.285 Oh, let's go back to the, oh, see, didn't happen. 00:26:04.285 --> 00:26:05.785 Or we're gonna go to seven, right? 00:26:05.785 --> 00:26:08.545 Like, you know, and then ultimately, and here's your answer, and 00:26:08.545 --> 00:26:09.805 you don't need to call anybody. 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:11.750 And Wow. 00:26:11.750 --> 00:26:12.530 Mind blown. 00:26:12.882 --> 00:26:17.025 Duke: You know what I think ServiceNow can do everything that wizard could do. 00:26:17.295 --> 00:26:18.435 But better now 00:26:18.780 --> 00:26:18.870 CJ: Yeah. 00:26:18.870 --> 00:26:19.500 Virtual agent. 00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:19.950 Yeah. 00:26:20.415 --> 00:26:21.285 Duke: that Exactly. 00:26:21.285 --> 00:26:22.125 That's exactly what I'm saying. 00:26:22.620 --> 00:26:22.920 CJ: Yeah, 00:26:23.685 --> 00:26:24.075 Duke: Yeah. 00:26:24.255 --> 00:26:26.175 Or even whatever ai, right? 00:26:26.385 --> 00:26:26.805 Even if 00:26:27.570 --> 00:26:29.520 CJ: Well now assist the Naval virtual agent. 00:26:29.520 --> 00:26:30.930 Right, which is kick ass. 00:26:31.328 --> 00:26:31.988 Duke: it is. 00:26:32.978 --> 00:26:33.218 Yeah. 00:26:33.353 --> 00:26:36.383 CJ: you man, the best thing about it is that, all those long branching 00:26:36.383 --> 00:26:39.083 conversations that you had to meticulously put together now 00:26:39.083 --> 00:26:41.393 assist, abstracts a lot of that away. 00:26:41.393 --> 00:26:43.493 So it makes things a lot easier to do. 00:26:44.078 --> 00:26:47.408 Duke: Man, I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you, I gotta tell everybody, okay? 00:26:47.978 --> 00:26:48.548 I've seen a 00:26:48.773 --> 00:26:50.603 CJ: It just me and you talking about. 00:26:52.118 --> 00:26:57.068 Duke: I've seen a lot of service catalog deployments in my time, and a lot of 00:26:57.068 --> 00:27:01.878 good ones, but man is ServiceNow's internal service catalog experience. 00:27:02.380 --> 00:27:03.460 So good. 00:27:03.610 --> 00:27:05.020 So, so good. 00:27:05.830 --> 00:27:10.710 It's amazing and, it's got AI search on it and I'm never that 00:27:10.710 --> 00:27:12.060 far from whatever I need, right. 00:27:12.248 --> 00:27:13.748 if I'm saying, where do I find this? 00:27:13.748 --> 00:27:16.868 And it's like, oh, here's a catalog item for you to order it, or maybe you're 00:27:16.868 --> 00:27:17.918 thinking about this knowledge article. 00:27:17.918 --> 00:27:19.688 And it's never popping up weird stuff. 00:27:19.718 --> 00:27:21.758 It's always the most relevant stuff. 00:27:22.203 --> 00:27:24.003 CJ: Duke, two things on that right. 00:27:24.003 --> 00:27:28.263 First thing that sounds like a great now on now for, uh, knowledge 26. 00:27:28.623 --> 00:27:31.953 And the, but the right. 00:27:32.658 --> 00:27:35.358 Duke: Sometimes it's the little thing like, how good is your service catalog? 00:27:35.613 --> 00:27:37.263 CJ: That was my second point. 00:27:37.383 --> 00:27:42.483 sometimes we get so enamored with the new and shiny that we forget 00:27:42.483 --> 00:27:47.733 that it's the basics that form the building blocks of great experiences. 00:27:48.733 --> 00:27:50.683 And a good no. 00:27:50.683 --> 00:27:51.283 A great. 00:27:51.437 --> 00:27:58.093 Service catalog experience goes a long way to framing how your end users view 00:27:58.213 --> 00:28:01.810 ServiceNow as a product, as a tool that they can use, Because that's the front 00:28:01.810 --> 00:28:05.813 door that most of them are coming in through, And if your front door is, 00:28:06.153 --> 00:28:10.863 got gold and gilded and some, some of those nice grotesques hanging out and 00:28:11.043 --> 00:28:15.663 all of that, like, you know, people are gonna feel like, yeah, this is great. 00:28:16.758 --> 00:28:19.788 Versus if you go through the thing and you got to pull away the planks 00:28:19.788 --> 00:28:21.288 in order to get in and all of that. 00:28:21.288 --> 00:28:21.438 Right. 00:28:21.438 --> 00:28:23.448 Like it just really frames the experience different. 00:28:23.957 --> 00:28:24.227 Duke: Yeah,. 00:28:24.227 --> 00:28:25.937 It does do AI really well. 00:28:26.137 --> 00:28:28.657 you can tell, sometimes it's thinking and kind of like assembling an 00:28:28.657 --> 00:28:31.887 answer versus, oh, here's a knowledge article with that term in it. 00:28:32.547 --> 00:28:32.767 CJ: Yes. 00:28:33.367 --> 00:28:33.457 Duke: I. 00:28:33.917 --> 00:28:37.022 CJ: Like here, I know, like I got, I understood the meaning 00:28:37.022 --> 00:28:38.722 behind what you, fed me, and. 00:28:38.962 --> 00:28:39.682 Duke: Yeah, yeah. 00:28:40.282 --> 00:28:43.402 CJ: And now I'm gonna give you something that answers that intent, 00:28:43.916 --> 00:28:47.516 Duke: I think, I can't remember, this is like early on, so in my first few weeks 00:28:47.516 --> 00:28:51.279 I had to, fly out to a team meeting and I come back and it's like, really important 00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:52.749 to get your expense reports in, right? 00:28:52.749 --> 00:28:55.869 And so it was like I was new and I'm like, oh, man, what, what was the 00:28:55.869 --> 00:28:57.279 name of our expense report app again? 00:28:58.074 --> 00:29:02.251 I think I just typed in how do I do this expense report, and then it's just 00:29:02.251 --> 00:29:03.901 like, oh, you want to open this app? 00:29:03.961 --> 00:29:06.391 And I think it was like a one click and open app. 00:29:07.081 --> 00:29:07.891 CJ: That's awesome. 00:29:09.121 --> 00:29:09.841 Duke: I can't remember. 00:29:09.871 --> 00:29:10.801 I'm pretty sure though. 00:29:10.921 --> 00:29:11.461 Anyways. 00:29:11.461 --> 00:29:14.221 Anyways, so we got 35 minutes of record. 00:29:14.411 --> 00:29:19.153 Let's try and summarize again for the new people, You gotta learn ai. 00:29:19.363 --> 00:29:19.993 It's tough. 00:29:20.053 --> 00:29:21.073 Everybody's gotta do it. 00:29:21.278 --> 00:29:22.508 At least the prompting. 00:29:22.816 --> 00:29:24.356 CJ: you gotta make this thing, man. 00:29:24.356 --> 00:29:25.346 You your new best friend. 00:29:25.771 --> 00:29:30.751 even though I think AI is insanely more valuable for folks who know the subject 00:29:30.751 --> 00:29:35.431 that they're using AI for versus folks who don't, I think everyone needs to use it. 00:29:35.791 --> 00:29:39.478 And, just because it doesn't make you as valuable as it makes me, 00:29:39.778 --> 00:29:43.348 doesn't mean that it doesn't make you incredibly more valuable, 00:29:43.988 --> 00:29:44.338 Duke: Right. 00:29:44.788 --> 00:29:45.088 CJ: right? 00:29:45.133 --> 00:29:48.953 Duke: yeah, there, there's probably gonna be a time where, instead of 00:29:48.953 --> 00:29:51.803 you writing all this stuff out in a client script, you're just telling 00:29:51.803 --> 00:29:54.683 it Build me a client script that does the following and I'll test it. 00:29:55.133 --> 00:29:57.383 That's not too far away. 00:29:57.893 --> 00:29:58.973 If not already here. 00:29:59.003 --> 00:29:59.813 If not already here. 00:29:59.813 --> 00:30:02.603 So maybe you are not actually building the configurations, 00:30:03.083 --> 00:30:04.703 but who's going to tell it? 00:30:04.733 --> 00:30:06.323 What configurations to build? 00:30:06.323 --> 00:30:10.293 Who's going to review it and say, that was a good solution design. 00:30:10.436 --> 00:30:15.686 And to do that, you have to understand the tools that the AI can work with. 00:30:16.331 --> 00:30:17.665 CJ: Yeah, absolutely. 00:30:17.905 --> 00:30:20.765 You said, , about the write me a client script and then thing I 00:30:20.765 --> 00:30:25.145 have had AI actually write code for me and then formula format it 00:30:25.145 --> 00:30:29.345 into a an XML , file that I could import directly into the instance. 00:30:30.300 --> 00:30:30.680 Duke: Yeah, man. 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:32.585 I mean, there's all there's already two or three companies 00:30:32.585 --> 00:30:34.145 out there that have building bots 00:30:34.335 --> 00:30:34.625 CJ: Yeah. 00:30:34.835 --> 00:30:35.615 Duke: already, right? 00:30:35.615 --> 00:30:36.365 It's not new. 00:30:36.515 --> 00:30:38.105 And even some of the, 00:30:38.795 --> 00:30:39.545 CJ: Yeah, no. 00:30:39.545 --> 00:30:40.475 I was like, yeah, no, absolutely. 00:30:40.475 --> 00:30:43.895 But this is just straight like chat GPT, like nothing special. 00:30:43.895 --> 00:30:44.465 No. 00:30:44.705 --> 00:30:47.525 Duke: Like write me an XML, just like drop that into text and then 00:30:47.525 --> 00:30:48.905 import into Service Now and boom. 00:30:48.905 --> 00:30:49.835 Bob's your uncle, right? 00:30:50.665 --> 00:30:54.295 But there's like some of the code tools that I have internally. 00:30:54.295 --> 00:30:58.040 I can literally tell it, go build me this stuff in the in. 00:30:58.295 --> 00:31:00.635 I'm not even on the instance, I'm just like, go build me this stuff 00:31:00.635 --> 00:31:01.955 and it builds the objects for me. 00:31:02.420 --> 00:31:02.660 CJ: Right 00:31:03.155 --> 00:31:03.635 Duke: You know what I mean? 00:31:03.635 --> 00:31:06.995 I don't have, it doesn't have that translation layer of save a xml. 00:31:06.995 --> 00:31:11.645 It's like those XMLs are done built but I would've been useless if I 00:31:11.645 --> 00:31:15.395 didn't have the 10 years of ServiceNow experience to like understand what 00:31:15.395 --> 00:31:16.865 is the thing that should be built. 00:31:17.275 --> 00:31:21.213 CJ: yeah, because look, this is something I've said, previously, , our job, In 00:31:21.213 --> 00:31:27.693 this market, in this doing what we do with ServiceNow, our job is not to code. 00:31:28.143 --> 00:31:29.973 It's not to build workflows. 00:31:30.273 --> 00:31:33.873 It's not to do, any specific technical thing. 00:31:33.873 --> 00:31:35.373 Our job is to solve problems. 00:31:36.033 --> 00:31:41.553 And ultimately, if you don't know the problem, and if you don't know the 00:31:41.553 --> 00:31:45.693 solution, if you can't recognize the solution, then it doesn't matter what 00:31:45.693 --> 00:31:47.523 a, that AI can build it for you, right? 00:31:47.523 --> 00:31:48.363 You gotta know how to tell it. 00:31:48.433 --> 00:31:52.003 This is the problem I'm having, this is the solution I'm trying to get to, right? 00:31:52.003 --> 00:31:55.231 This is what I think will work, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, so 00:31:55.231 --> 00:31:58.111 how you get to the solution to a certain degree doesn't really matter. 00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:00.070 But the solution needs to happen. 00:32:00.150 --> 00:32:03.270 And I think sometimes, and I felt like, I felt like when I started on this, that 00:32:03.270 --> 00:32:06.450 this was relevant, but as I continue, I'm not quite sure, but I'm gonna go anyway. 00:32:08.250 --> 00:32:11.070 My point is Duke, is that a lot of the value that you bring to 00:32:11.070 --> 00:32:13.260 this is being able to recognize. 00:32:13.725 --> 00:32:17.542 When AI did the thing correctly versus incorrectly, the way I look 00:32:17.542 --> 00:32:21.892 at that is the same way in which when I'm working for my client, the thing 00:32:21.892 --> 00:32:27.802 that makes me valuable is knowing when the solution is coding versus 00:32:27.802 --> 00:32:33.858 configuration versus process versus organizational change management, right? 00:32:33.858 --> 00:32:35.418 Like, you know what I mean? 00:32:35.688 --> 00:32:36.228 And. 00:32:36.583 --> 00:32:39.553 Duke: but also like there's a whole gateway there of 00:32:39.553 --> 00:32:40.843 should it be built at all? 00:32:41.073 --> 00:32:42.718 CJ: Yeah, that too, right? 00:32:42.853 --> 00:32:45.883 Duke: many conversations have we had with our customers that are just like, 00:32:46.213 --> 00:32:50.383 Hey, listen, I know why you feel you need this, but there's consequences 00:32:50.383 --> 00:32:52.693 of this beyond what you're seeing, what you're capable of seeing. 00:32:52.843 --> 00:32:53.203 Right. 00:32:53.263 --> 00:32:55.063 Let's try and find some other solution. 00:32:55.093 --> 00:32:59.220 'cause that's one of the things I fear is that the distance between 00:32:59.280 --> 00:33:03.600 asking and ai executing gets so short that they just cut out the devs, 00:33:03.930 --> 00:33:06.900 cut out the experienced resources, and just like, build me what I want. 00:33:07.230 --> 00:33:10.200 And then we just, all we make is a giant. 00:33:10.246 --> 00:33:13.666 platform that makes shit to your applications at the speed of light. 00:33:14.296 --> 00:33:14.516 CJ: Ha. 00:33:15.286 --> 00:33:15.406 Duke: Yeah. 00:33:16.661 --> 00:33:17.501 CJ: Yeah, yeah. 00:33:17.501 --> 00:33:18.881 I couldn't put that better myself. 00:33:21.396 --> 00:33:22.516 I totally agree. 00:33:22.516 --> 00:33:24.376 I think that's exactly what you get, right? 00:33:24.533 --> 00:33:27.373 Understanding, and context really needs to be present. 00:33:27.373 --> 00:33:30.583 And you, are, we are as the people that knowledge, 00:33:30.583 --> 00:33:32.203 understanding and con and context. 00:33:32.713 --> 00:33:33.103 So 00:33:33.653 --> 00:33:33.983 Duke: All right. 00:33:33.983 --> 00:33:37.763 I have to go run and do something, so I think we're gonna have to leave it here 00:33:38.473 --> 00:33:39.583 CJ: we'll leave it here man. 00:33:39.633 --> 00:33:41.523 Hey, good talking to you Duke, as always. 00:33:41.523 --> 00:33:42.903 And uh, still no outro. 00:33:43.453 --> 00:33:44.278 Duke: still no outro. 00:33:44.548 --> 00:33:44.838 Yeah. 00:33:45.013 --> 00:33:46.213 120 something episodes. 00:33:46.213 --> 00:33:46.453 All right. 00:33:46.453 --> 00:33:46.663 Later.