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Elle: Chris,

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welcome to the show.

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Chris: Elle,

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thank you so much.

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I'm really excited to be here

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and it's always good to, good

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to talk with you.

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Elle: Okay, well

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let's dive right in.

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Uh, I think we all know what

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Adobe is, so tell us more

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about what's your role, what

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products do you care for?

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Chris: Yeah, so I

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focus on enterprise,

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uh, product marketing

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within Frame io and so.

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Quick, like one-liner

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of what Frame is, it's

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a cloud collaboration

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platform, but it's built

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specifically for creatives.

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So if we think about that,

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like creative teams, when

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they're going to launch

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anything from like, uh,

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campaigns, commercials, ads,

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things like that, they have

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to store their assets for work

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in progress projects, right?

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Video, photo design,

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files, docs and more.

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And then control access to

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like their internal team,

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so their, their peers.

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External agencies, their

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executives, freelancers,

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and so they can do all

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of that within frame io.

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So a really like secure place

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to store and collaborate, when

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these projects are, are work

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in progress for the creative

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teams.

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Elle: Ah, that's

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super helpful.

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Thanks for framing that up.

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our subject for today is

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around this, concept of

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an having an ICP strategy.

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So tell us more about what was

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going on with Frame IO when

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you realized you needed to

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rethink that ICP strategy and

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reengage with the buy team.

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Yeah.

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Chris: Yeah, absolutely.

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So one of the things,

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actually, one of the first

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projects I. Went down

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or paths I went down.

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When I started at Frame

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io was just looking at our

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win-loss data and kind of what

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was happening in the market

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with, with frame io for the

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enterprise space specifically.

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But one of the initiatives

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that came up is our

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business unit really

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wanted to re-accelerate,

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or like accelerate our

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run rate business, right?

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And so.

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For anyone out there who

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might not know what run rate

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business is, think about it

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more as the shorter sales

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cycle, more transactional

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sometimes looked at as logo

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acquisition, but for us

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it was also departmental.

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So specific departments,

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especially like I mentioned,

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what frame is the creative

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teams, they typically have a

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set amount of budget that's

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smaller than let's say A

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CMO, for example, right?

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But there are great

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opportunities to

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land frame in there.

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a much faster pace and

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eventually grow into

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what we call at Adobe

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transformational deals

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across the, the organization.

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So we really wanted to focus

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on accounts where we had

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limited to no frame usage or

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penetration, and we wanted

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to get in there, get in with

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the creative teams, with

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the ideal users, and then,

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actually expand from there.

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So that, that is kind of

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like the situation that we

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wanted to dive in at the

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start there.

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Elle: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You can always expect a good

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result when you find the

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right user and you hit 'em

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with the right information.

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So, can you help us help the

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audience really understand

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what this could look like?

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So walk us through a

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hypothetical example of

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what an ICP might look

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like in this world.

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Chris: Yeah.

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so this is where I like to

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spend the most of my time

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because I think coming from

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a sales background, I always

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like to start with sales

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as a channel for marketing

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and, and product marketing.

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And so if I think about,

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like, I'll go kind of high

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level and then into an

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example I. the way I went

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to like approach this was,

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let's first look at our

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internal sales data, right?

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Which is basic.

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Where are we winning?

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what are the verticals?

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Where do we see

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higher win rates?

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As, as much as we can

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find quality data, And

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that was a big piece.

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And for us, like Frame started

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like really within the media

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and entertainment space, but

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we're rapidly expanding into

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like what we call at a high

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level brands, which could

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be like retail, financial

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services, uh, healthcare,

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manufacturing, et cetera.

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And so, you know, we see that

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the win rates are actually

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like growing there and there's

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a good, good opportunity.

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And so it's like,

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okay, that's great.

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And then within that,

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what are the titles or

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the personas within there

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where we're seeing wins?

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So, you know, you

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could take a look at.

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All of your wind data, and

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this is where I like to,

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you know, focus heavily

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on the wind data, where we

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win and not only look at

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who, what are the companies

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that we're, we're winning?

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What is the trend from the

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previous year to this, or like

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the two years ago to this year

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to look at like year over year

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analysis, but also the titles

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and the personas, and start

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grouping those into categories

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of who are we talking to.

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That's actually driving

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these deals forward.

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and so that's what

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we're able to do.

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And then I think one of

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the most important pieces,

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like while that's objective

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and data driven based on

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what we have in our CRM

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and other systems, the

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beauty with something like

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Gong or the call recorders

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these days is you can

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listen to customer calls.

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And so from there,

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what you want to do is

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you actually want to.

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Pick some of those customers

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where you have wins, and

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that's what we did is,

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hey, let's pick an ideal

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customer as we start to

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mold it based on the data.

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And let's actually, instead

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of just listening to calls

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across a bunch of customers,

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let's focus in on 1, 2,

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3 customers and actually

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listen to calls all the way

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through the sales cycle.

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And not only see when that

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champion's involved, but who

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else they're getting involved.

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How they're navigating.

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you know, those conversations

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and, and frankly like where

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sales reps are running into

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challenges because you have

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to establish a champion, then

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you have to go find users who

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are gonna love the product.

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And then you probably have

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to go up to the ultimate

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budget holder and, and pitch

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an ROI story, especially if

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finance or procurement gets

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in or, or IT, and security.

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Right.

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So from there you can really

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get a feel for the buyer

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journey and where the personas

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enter in the buyer journey.

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and that is like a

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big unlock for us.

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'cause ultimately then what

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you end up doing is you

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go, okay, if I can take

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a step back and know that

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I not only need to market

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my product to a specific

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company, but I actually

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need to market different.

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Iterations or flavors

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of messaging to

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different personas.

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So my create my video

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creative leader is gonna

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wanna know one thing.

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the creative director who

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might be overseeing the

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entire creative campaign.

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they might want to hear

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a little bit of different

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thing it and security is

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gonna wanna know that.

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Our commercial is not gonna

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leak before it is meant to

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launch and go out there.

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and then finance is gonna

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want to know ROI as as well

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as an executive, you know,

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and A CMO is gonna wanna

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know how do we differentiate

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our brand and move faster.

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And so we actually took

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these flavors and said,

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let's focus on a narrow

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audience instead of go going

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after our entire, countless,

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let's go after accounts

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that fit within this ICP.

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Let's go after the different.

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personas within that and let's

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actually tweak our messaging

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based on who we're talking to.

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And that actually like really

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created quality pipeline and

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accelerated how fast we were

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able to move those deals.

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So that's what we delve into.

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Now, if you were to like, take

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a look at like an example,

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'cause it's like, okay,

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your world, what is that?

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Like let's say I had

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Chris Clothing Inc.

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Right?

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Which is a global

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retail company.

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And so it's like, okay.

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I know retail is a good

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place we want to focus on,

294
00:06:26,795 --> 00:06:27,965
but within there, I wanna

295
00:06:27,965 --> 00:06:29,345
dive into the personas.

296
00:06:29,495 --> 00:06:31,174
So I'm gonna go find the

297
00:06:31,174 --> 00:06:32,134
folks, the creatives in

298
00:06:32,134 --> 00:06:33,964
charge of video there, right?

299
00:06:33,964 --> 00:06:35,284
And I'm gonna understand,

300
00:06:35,284 --> 00:06:35,914
like, I'm gonna look at their

301
00:06:35,914 --> 00:06:36,934
website and are they putting

302
00:06:36,934 --> 00:06:37,834
videos on their website,

303
00:06:37,834 --> 00:06:38,794
on their social channels?

304
00:06:38,794 --> 00:06:39,874
Do I see them on tv,

305
00:06:39,874 --> 00:06:41,404
on commercials, those

306
00:06:41,404 --> 00:06:42,034
different pieces.

307
00:06:42,064 --> 00:06:42,934
'cause I know that

308
00:06:42,934 --> 00:06:44,434
they're focused on really

309
00:06:44,434 --> 00:06:46,144
creating quality video.

310
00:06:46,579 --> 00:06:47,509
But then I also know they're

311
00:06:47,509 --> 00:06:48,949
probably selling like

312
00:06:48,949 --> 00:06:50,029
budget for video to their

313
00:06:50,029 --> 00:06:51,289
creative director who comes

314
00:06:51,289 --> 00:06:52,429
from a design background.

315
00:06:52,579 --> 00:06:53,509
So I need to talk to them

316
00:06:53,509 --> 00:06:54,829
about speed, quality,

317
00:06:54,829 --> 00:06:56,659
differentiation, those pieces.

318
00:06:56,809 --> 00:06:57,529
They're ultimately

319
00:06:57,529 --> 00:06:58,789
reporting up to A CMO.

320
00:06:59,329 --> 00:07:00,709
They need to know about what's

321
00:07:00,709 --> 00:07:02,419
driving the brand forward.

322
00:07:02,419 --> 00:07:03,741
I. and then I know I have

323
00:07:03,741 --> 00:07:05,901
to put in a flavor of it

324
00:07:06,021 --> 00:07:06,921
who is gonna be focused

325
00:07:06,921 --> 00:07:08,751
on security and finance,

326
00:07:08,751 --> 00:07:09,861
who's gonna be like, Hey,

327
00:07:09,861 --> 00:07:10,731
we have to actually like

328
00:07:10,731 --> 00:07:11,871
figure out budget for this.

329
00:07:11,871 --> 00:07:13,341
How are you gonna justify it?

330
00:07:13,581 --> 00:07:14,571
So I'm gonna take all those

331
00:07:14,571 --> 00:07:15,531
different angles of Chris

332
00:07:15,531 --> 00:07:16,881
Clothing Inc. And understand,

333
00:07:17,061 --> 00:07:18,081
hey, you're creating a

334
00:07:18,081 --> 00:07:19,401
ton of video content.

335
00:07:19,401 --> 00:07:20,481
I'm seeing it go out across

336
00:07:20,481 --> 00:07:21,576
commercials, across YouTube,

337
00:07:21,771 --> 00:07:22,551
across these different

338
00:07:22,551 --> 00:07:23,871
channels, and I can go

339
00:07:23,871 --> 00:07:24,891
in with these insights

340
00:07:24,891 --> 00:07:25,971
to the right personas to

341
00:07:25,971 --> 00:07:27,291
really craft my messaging

342
00:07:27,531 --> 00:07:29,331
and do so, add sales,

343
00:07:29,331 --> 00:07:29,991
things like that.

344
00:07:30,318 --> 00:07:30,858
Elle: Got it.

345
00:07:30,888 --> 00:07:31,248
Okay.

346
00:07:31,248 --> 00:07:33,108
So for you it was really

347
00:07:33,108 --> 00:07:34,878
about identifying the

348
00:07:34,878 --> 00:07:38,571
right company to target as

349
00:07:38,571 --> 00:07:40,761
part of that ICP and then

350
00:07:41,211 --> 00:07:42,531
building the buy team.

351
00:07:42,951 --> 00:07:45,141
And trying to use some

352
00:07:45,141 --> 00:07:45,981
of the insights that you

353
00:07:45,981 --> 00:07:47,871
got about that company to

354
00:07:47,871 --> 00:07:49,212
engage with some of those

355
00:07:49,212 --> 00:07:50,352
members of the buy team.

356
00:07:50,922 --> 00:07:52,019
And then, what did you

357
00:07:52,019 --> 00:07:52,799
guys do after that?

358
00:07:52,799 --> 00:07:53,849
Like what happened after

359
00:07:53,849 --> 00:07:55,289
you built out that buy team?

360
00:07:55,289 --> 00:07:56,519
You had the right messaging

361
00:07:56,519 --> 00:07:58,349
for the right persona for

362
00:07:58,349 --> 00:07:59,939
every member of the buy team.

363
00:08:00,479 --> 00:08:01,469
What did you guys

364
00:08:01,469 --> 00:08:02,369
do with all of that

365
00:08:02,579 --> 00:08:03,089
insight?

366
00:08:03,335 --> 00:08:03,665
Chris: Yeah.

367
00:08:03,665 --> 00:08:05,143
I think there's really

368
00:08:05,143 --> 00:08:06,523
like two phases, right?

369
00:08:06,523 --> 00:08:08,312
That especially at large

370
00:08:08,312 --> 00:08:09,839
organizations, you have

371
00:08:09,839 --> 00:08:10,649
to go through, right?

372
00:08:10,649 --> 00:08:11,969
You have to sell internally

373
00:08:11,969 --> 00:08:13,139
and then sell externally.

374
00:08:13,139 --> 00:08:14,194
I. Uh, it's what I

375
00:08:14,194 --> 00:08:15,244
always say it is product

376
00:08:15,244 --> 00:08:15,904
marketing's role.

377
00:08:15,904 --> 00:08:17,374
So like the first phase is

378
00:08:17,614 --> 00:08:18,784
like sell internally, right?

379
00:08:18,784 --> 00:08:20,434
So I go through and me and

380
00:08:20,434 --> 00:08:21,454
my team go through all of

381
00:08:21,454 --> 00:08:23,344
this data and we see, hey, we

382
00:08:23,344 --> 00:08:25,474
have like a great idea of out

383
00:08:25,474 --> 00:08:26,704
of all of the accounts that

384
00:08:26,704 --> 00:08:28,084
exist that we want sellers and

385
00:08:28,084 --> 00:08:29,464
marketing team to go after.

386
00:08:29,854 --> 00:08:30,964
This set group of

387
00:08:30,964 --> 00:08:32,104
accounts that represent

388
00:08:32,104 --> 00:08:33,454
the largest opportunity.

389
00:08:33,814 --> 00:08:34,834
That doesn't mean anything.

390
00:08:34,864 --> 00:08:36,004
If I'm the only one who

391
00:08:36,004 --> 00:08:37,054
knows that, or my team's the

392
00:08:37,054 --> 00:08:37,924
only one that knows that,

393
00:08:37,924 --> 00:08:39,184
then we have to go to the

394
00:08:39,184 --> 00:08:40,624
head of marketing who we

395
00:08:40,624 --> 00:08:41,824
have to convince to deploy

396
00:08:41,824 --> 00:08:43,294
a campaign and, and actually

397
00:08:43,294 --> 00:08:45,004
have everyone focus around

398
00:08:45,004 --> 00:08:46,084
this and, and take a more

399
00:08:46,084 --> 00:08:47,494
targeted approach instead of.

400
00:08:47,754 --> 00:08:48,594
You know, the evergreen

401
00:08:48,594 --> 00:08:49,494
stuff that's going on or

402
00:08:49,494 --> 00:08:51,234
in addition to, but I also

403
00:08:51,234 --> 00:08:52,194
need to get the sales leader

404
00:08:52,194 --> 00:08:53,454
on board as well, right?

405
00:08:53,454 --> 00:08:55,104
And so this is where taking

406
00:08:55,104 --> 00:08:56,784
a data-driven approach and

407
00:08:56,784 --> 00:08:57,984
like that objective approach

408
00:08:57,984 --> 00:08:59,634
of sales data, product usage

409
00:08:59,634 --> 00:09:01,164
data where you can, and

410
00:09:01,164 --> 00:09:02,604
crafting the right story to

411
00:09:02,604 --> 00:09:03,864
actually go pitch and sell

412
00:09:03,864 --> 00:09:05,034
internally and say, Hey, I.

413
00:09:05,419 --> 00:09:06,709
Let's focus this effort

414
00:09:07,008 --> 00:09:07,917
really like, we can

415
00:09:07,917 --> 00:09:08,937
unlock a lot here.

416
00:09:08,937 --> 00:09:09,597
And so that's what we did.

417
00:09:09,597 --> 00:09:10,017
We went to the head

418
00:09:10,017 --> 00:09:10,647
of marketing, went

419
00:09:10,647 --> 00:09:11,517
to the head of sales.

420
00:09:11,757 --> 00:09:12,417
They were really

421
00:09:12,417 --> 00:09:13,317
excited about it.

422
00:09:13,317 --> 00:09:14,427
We got their buy-in

423
00:09:14,427 --> 00:09:15,357
to go after it.

424
00:09:15,687 --> 00:09:17,007
And then after that you have,

425
00:09:17,126 --> 00:09:18,250
you know, this brief that you

426
00:09:18,250 --> 00:09:19,720
create that is the overview,

427
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:20,980
the analysis, what the

428
00:09:20,980 --> 00:09:22,270
messaging would look like, who

429
00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:24,160
the personas are, so everyone

430
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:25,840
can sign off on this brief.

431
00:09:26,145 --> 00:09:26,895
And then that becomes

432
00:09:26,895 --> 00:09:27,915
your source of truth for

433
00:09:27,915 --> 00:09:28,845
what you're gonna go and

434
00:09:28,845 --> 00:09:30,435
deploy and expand upon.

435
00:09:30,435 --> 00:09:31,185
And so from there, you're

436
00:09:31,185 --> 00:09:32,355
spinning up working with

437
00:09:32,355 --> 00:09:33,427
teams to spin up, landing

438
00:09:33,427 --> 00:09:35,827
pages, different ads, pulling

439
00:09:35,827 --> 00:09:36,907
in what case studies you

440
00:09:36,907 --> 00:09:38,257
can use to help fuel those

441
00:09:38,257 --> 00:09:39,907
ads and those landing pages.

442
00:09:40,117 --> 00:09:41,137
Going to the business

443
00:09:41,137 --> 00:09:42,397
development reps, the BDR

444
00:09:42,397 --> 00:09:43,927
team, and equipping them

445
00:09:43,927 --> 00:09:45,367
with messaging within their

446
00:09:45,367 --> 00:09:46,477
sequences, going to the

447
00:09:46,477 --> 00:09:48,007
sales team, letting them

448
00:09:48,007 --> 00:09:49,057
know who they're going to

449
00:09:49,057 --> 00:09:50,497
be talking to and how to.

450
00:09:50,770 --> 00:09:51,730
really get, overcome

451
00:09:51,730 --> 00:09:52,810
objections at different

452
00:09:52,810 --> 00:09:54,130
stages, and so you have this

453
00:09:54,130 --> 00:09:55,210
source of truth that ends

454
00:09:55,210 --> 00:09:56,350
up kind of spreading out

455
00:09:56,350 --> 00:09:56,800
throughout.

456
00:09:57,188 --> 00:09:57,608
Elle: Yeah.

457
00:09:57,758 --> 00:10:00,008
So from doing this super,

458
00:10:00,268 --> 00:10:01,075
maybe it wasn't super

459
00:10:01,075 --> 00:10:02,815
intensive, but you had

460
00:10:02,815 --> 00:10:03,895
a super thorough, I will

461
00:10:03,895 --> 00:10:06,265
say, data analysis to

462
00:10:06,265 --> 00:10:09,055
craft the perfect ICP.

463
00:10:09,295 --> 00:10:10,645
Understand the buy team.

464
00:10:10,765 --> 00:10:12,205
You, you leveraged that to

465
00:10:12,205 --> 00:10:15,055
create a hyper targeted.

466
00:10:15,330 --> 00:10:18,060
Marketing campaign that

467
00:10:18,090 --> 00:10:20,100
empowered both the campaign's,

468
00:10:20,100 --> 00:10:21,600
demand gen side of the house

469
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,030
as well as your sellers.

470
00:10:24,396 --> 00:10:25,806
very, very creative.

471
00:10:25,926 --> 00:10:28,386
Now, what if I were a

472
00:10:28,386 --> 00:10:30,546
PMM that wanted to try to

473
00:10:30,546 --> 00:10:33,276
replicate this in my role?

474
00:10:33,516 --> 00:10:33,876
Right?

475
00:10:33,881 --> 00:10:34,866
So I'm trying to go through

476
00:10:34,866 --> 00:10:35,856
the steps that you outlined.

477
00:10:35,886 --> 00:10:36,756
You talked about.

478
00:10:36,781 --> 00:10:38,731
Uh, being data intensive,

479
00:10:38,731 --> 00:10:40,441
you talked about gong calls.

480
00:10:40,699 --> 00:10:41,749
let's back up a minute and

481
00:10:41,749 --> 00:10:43,129
just very quickly outline

482
00:10:43,129 --> 00:10:44,179
what the steps would be

483
00:10:44,179 --> 00:10:45,529
for PMM to replicate this.

484
00:10:45,529 --> 00:10:46,459
Like one, I think

485
00:10:46,459 --> 00:10:47,059
you said data.

486
00:10:47,059 --> 00:10:48,169
So talk to me about data.

487
00:10:48,169 --> 00:10:49,173
Like what about the data

488
00:10:49,173 --> 00:10:50,193
do I need to look at?

489
00:10:50,549 --> 00:10:50,819
Chris: Yeah.

490
00:10:50,819 --> 00:10:52,229
So first you have to develop

491
00:10:52,229 --> 00:10:53,459
your own conviction, right?

492
00:10:53,459 --> 00:10:54,179
And data is the

493
00:10:54,179 --> 00:10:55,102
best way to do it.

494
00:10:55,263 --> 00:10:56,463
data is always like an

495
00:10:56,463 --> 00:10:57,513
imperfect thing, but it

496
00:10:57,513 --> 00:10:59,267
does get you, down the path,

497
00:10:59,267 --> 00:11:00,737
which is how you kind of

498
00:11:00,737 --> 00:11:01,517
develop your point of view.

499
00:11:01,517 --> 00:11:02,417
So I'd say first,

500
00:11:02,417 --> 00:11:03,767
analyze the sales data.

501
00:11:04,082 --> 00:11:04,322
Right.

502
00:11:04,322 --> 00:11:05,852
Sales data unlocks a

503
00:11:05,852 --> 00:11:07,052
lot of insight into

504
00:11:07,052 --> 00:11:08,222
what's going well.

505
00:11:08,554 --> 00:11:09,561
especially if you're looking

506
00:11:09,561 --> 00:11:11,421
at like what to target.

507
00:11:11,421 --> 00:11:12,561
So you should look at wins

508
00:11:12,561 --> 00:11:14,511
and losses For this, we

509
00:11:14,511 --> 00:11:16,731
focused heavily on wins

510
00:11:16,731 --> 00:11:17,751
because we wanna see how do

511
00:11:17,751 --> 00:11:19,848
we put gasoline on the fire of

512
00:11:19,848 --> 00:11:20,718
what's working.

513
00:11:21,032 --> 00:11:21,322
Elle: Yeah.

514
00:11:21,322 --> 00:11:22,102
You wanna know why you

515
00:11:22,102 --> 00:11:22,462
win?

516
00:11:22,462 --> 00:11:22,972
Yeah.

517
00:11:22,998 --> 00:11:23,778
Chris: that's exactly right.

518
00:11:23,778 --> 00:11:24,048
Right.

519
00:11:24,048 --> 00:11:25,008
And so, 'cause you're also

520
00:11:25,008 --> 00:11:25,949
making a trade off of like,

521
00:11:25,949 --> 00:11:26,936
we are actually making

522
00:11:26,936 --> 00:11:28,586
a decision to not focus.

523
00:11:28,901 --> 00:11:30,131
On some area that

524
00:11:30,131 --> 00:11:31,361
we could focus on.

525
00:11:31,361 --> 00:11:33,071
So it's like where do we win

526
00:11:33,071 --> 00:11:34,961
and how do we accelerate that?

527
00:11:35,111 --> 00:11:36,161
And frankly, you're not gonna

528
00:11:36,161 --> 00:11:37,691
get buy-in internally if you

529
00:11:37,691 --> 00:11:39,611
don't come with data, because

530
00:11:39,611 --> 00:11:40,901
that is the way you actually

531
00:11:40,901 --> 00:11:42,491
get folks to, to think

532
00:11:42,491 --> 00:11:43,571
differently about things.

533
00:11:43,571 --> 00:11:44,591
So that's sales data.

534
00:11:44,831 --> 00:11:45,881
You can layer in product

535
00:11:45,881 --> 00:11:47,501
data where you have it,

536
00:11:47,501 --> 00:11:48,761
that's always like a, a,

537
00:11:48,766 --> 00:11:49,781
a great kicker of like how

538
00:11:49,781 --> 00:11:51,341
your product's being used.

539
00:11:51,610 --> 00:11:53,230
but find that data piece

540
00:11:53,230 --> 00:11:54,340
that helps start your story.

541
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:54,760
That's the

542
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:55,240
first step.

543
00:11:55,642 --> 00:11:56,182
Elle: Got it.

544
00:11:56,182 --> 00:11:56,542
Got it.

545
00:11:56,572 --> 00:11:56,872
Okay.

546
00:11:56,872 --> 00:11:58,522
And you mentioned Gong calls.

547
00:11:58,582 --> 00:11:59,992
How do Gong calls play a role?

548
00:12:00,215 --> 00:12:01,387
Chris: So I, and again, I

549
00:12:01,387 --> 00:12:03,337
think this is me coming from

550
00:12:03,637 --> 00:12:06,260
a sales background, is I love

551
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:07,507
talking to customers and I

552
00:12:07,507 --> 00:12:08,827
love hearing from customers.

553
00:12:08,827 --> 00:12:10,867
And frankly, like one of the,

554
00:12:10,867 --> 00:12:11,947
the interesting pieces of

555
00:12:11,947 --> 00:12:13,087
product marketing is like,

556
00:12:13,087 --> 00:12:15,427
we need to be able to speak

557
00:12:15,427 --> 00:12:16,507
internally on behalf of our

558
00:12:16,507 --> 00:12:17,467
customers, and we need to

559
00:12:17,467 --> 00:12:18,847
speak our customer's language.

560
00:12:18,847 --> 00:12:19,057
And so.

561
00:12:19,702 --> 00:12:20,876
You know, with, Gong and these

562
00:12:20,876 --> 00:12:22,481
other platforms that do the

563
00:12:22,481 --> 00:12:23,981
call recordings, it's, it's

564
00:12:23,981 --> 00:12:25,361
become amazing because I can

565
00:12:25,361 --> 00:12:26,681
be walking my dogs and I can

566
00:12:26,681 --> 00:12:26,981
listen to

567
00:12:26,981 --> 00:12:27,161
any

568
00:12:27,223 --> 00:12:27,551
calls.

569
00:12:27,551 --> 00:12:27,911
Right.

570
00:12:28,092 --> 00:12:28,557
Elle: Yeah.

571
00:12:28,587 --> 00:12:29,569
It's such a powerful

572
00:12:29,569 --> 00:12:30,859
insight for pmms.

573
00:12:30,859 --> 00:12:32,569
It's like un unlimited

574
00:12:32,569 --> 00:12:33,649
customer conversations

575
00:12:33,649 --> 00:12:34,489
at your fingertips.

576
00:12:34,592 --> 00:12:35,330
Chris: it's, the best.

577
00:12:35,330 --> 00:12:36,650
And like all these platforms,

578
00:12:36,650 --> 00:12:37,130
again, there's a

579
00:12:37,130 --> 00:12:37,460
lot of

580
00:12:37,460 --> 00:12:37,760
great

581
00:12:37,777 --> 00:12:38,090
ones.

582
00:12:38,137 --> 00:12:39,667
and the nice thing too is they

583
00:12:39,667 --> 00:12:41,257
now have like AI insights,

584
00:12:41,257 --> 00:12:42,862
so they actually, I. Do these

585
00:12:42,862 --> 00:12:44,662
little summary of notes and

586
00:12:44,662 --> 00:12:45,802
you can like pull out the

587
00:12:45,802 --> 00:12:47,092
ones you want to go listen to.

588
00:12:47,092 --> 00:12:48,322
But, but the whole point

589
00:12:48,322 --> 00:12:49,102
being is you can actually

590
00:12:49,102 --> 00:12:49,942
hear how customers are

591
00:12:49,942 --> 00:12:51,382
talking about their problem,

592
00:12:51,622 --> 00:12:52,432
talking about who they

593
00:12:52,432 --> 00:12:53,962
have to get buy-in from.

594
00:12:54,172 --> 00:12:56,090
And so that is establishing

595
00:12:56,090 --> 00:12:57,230
the voice of the customer.

596
00:12:57,230 --> 00:12:59,600
So now I have this data that

597
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:00,920
gives me my perspective on

598
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,930
where to focus on, and I'm

599
00:13:02,930 --> 00:13:03,860
going into this meeting

600
00:13:03,860 --> 00:13:04,550
with, again, head of

601
00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:05,720
marketing, head of sales,

602
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:06,770
maybe head of product.

603
00:13:06,980 --> 00:13:08,030
And I'm not saying.

604
00:13:08,210 --> 00:13:09,020
Hey, this is what

605
00:13:09,020 --> 00:13:09,800
Chris believes.

606
00:13:09,830 --> 00:13:11,180
I'm saying, Hey, this is what

607
00:13:11,180 --> 00:13:12,380
this company is saying and

608
00:13:12,380 --> 00:13:13,730
this company is saying, and

609
00:13:13,730 --> 00:13:15,020
here's what our data says.

610
00:13:15,020 --> 00:13:16,022
So it's like a, it,

611
00:13:16,027 --> 00:13:16,952
it creates a story of

612
00:13:16,952 --> 00:13:18,212
don't take it from me.

613
00:13:18,572 --> 00:13:19,952
Do we wanna like replicate

614
00:13:19,952 --> 00:13:20,732
this with similar

615
00:13:20,732 --> 00:13:21,242
lookalike

616
00:13:21,242 --> 00:13:21,842
customers?

617
00:13:22,041 --> 00:13:22,521
Elle: that's right.

618
00:13:22,521 --> 00:13:23,331
Validation.

619
00:13:23,432 --> 00:13:24,032
Chris: Exactly.

620
00:13:24,032 --> 00:13:24,452
Exactly.

621
00:13:24,471 --> 00:13:24,930
Elle: Yeah.

622
00:13:24,984 --> 00:13:25,854
Right, exactly.

623
00:13:25,854 --> 00:13:27,714
So I wanna circle back to

624
00:13:27,714 --> 00:13:28,524
something that you mentioned

625
00:13:28,524 --> 00:13:29,394
earlier that I thought

626
00:13:29,394 --> 00:13:30,684
was such a good idea.

627
00:13:30,774 --> 00:13:31,344
It probably took

628
00:13:31,344 --> 00:13:32,154
a lot of time.

629
00:13:32,514 --> 00:13:34,434
I imagine a lot of calls,

630
00:13:34,434 --> 00:13:35,664
a lot of deal cycles that

631
00:13:35,724 --> 00:13:36,534
that I've been exposed

632
00:13:36,534 --> 00:13:37,374
to can sometimes be

633
00:13:37,374 --> 00:13:37,974
lengthy and there's a

634
00:13:37,974 --> 00:13:38,784
lot of calls involved.

635
00:13:38,784 --> 00:13:39,414
But you mentioned that

636
00:13:39,414 --> 00:13:40,614
you would hone in on two

637
00:13:40,614 --> 00:13:42,132
or three customers, and

638
00:13:42,132 --> 00:13:44,862
you would listen to every

639
00:13:44,862 --> 00:13:46,752
sales conversation from

640
00:13:46,882 --> 00:13:48,472
deal open to deal close.

641
00:13:49,312 --> 00:13:50,482
I'm curious, anything

642
00:13:50,482 --> 00:13:51,892
surprising from that as

643
00:13:51,892 --> 00:13:53,303
just as a PMM, that's a

644
00:13:53,303 --> 00:13:54,473
lot of sales conversations

645
00:13:54,473 --> 00:13:56,003
to listen into and you

646
00:13:56,003 --> 00:13:56,933
really get insight to

647
00:13:56,933 --> 00:13:59,393
the entire deals cycle.

648
00:13:59,933 --> 00:14:01,523
What, what did you learn?

649
00:14:01,523 --> 00:14:02,393
Anything insightful

650
00:14:02,393 --> 00:14:03,173
or surprising?

651
00:14:03,319 --> 00:14:04,523
Chris: So first, I agree

652
00:14:04,523 --> 00:14:05,333
it does take a lot of

653
00:14:05,333 --> 00:14:06,563
time and you have to find

654
00:14:06,654 --> 00:14:07,581
you know, go for a walk,

655
00:14:07,581 --> 00:14:08,391
listen to a few calls.

656
00:14:08,391 --> 00:14:09,471
Don't be afraid to skip

657
00:14:09,471 --> 00:14:10,251
the 10 minute call.

658
00:14:10,251 --> 00:14:11,331
That's gonna go nowhere.

659
00:14:11,751 --> 00:14:13,371
But I would challenge any

660
00:14:13,371 --> 00:14:14,391
product marketers listening

661
00:14:14,391 --> 00:14:15,321
to this to say like, how

662
00:14:15,321 --> 00:14:16,221
many deals have you been

663
00:14:16,221 --> 00:14:17,361
on from start to finish to

664
00:14:17,361 --> 00:14:18,801
really understand what your

665
00:14:18,806 --> 00:14:19,821
customer, it's the only way

666
00:14:19,821 --> 00:14:20,661
to do it, in my opinion.

667
00:14:20,661 --> 00:14:21,801
So it, it is a worth

668
00:14:21,801 --> 00:14:22,791
it grind out work.

669
00:14:23,301 --> 00:14:24,441
The interesting insight

670
00:14:24,441 --> 00:14:26,061
that I came up with is.

671
00:14:26,376 --> 00:14:27,546
and, and this might seem so

672
00:14:27,546 --> 00:14:28,416
obvious, but it's important

673
00:14:28,416 --> 00:14:29,796
to call it, these are people.

674
00:14:30,231 --> 00:14:31,371
These are real people

675
00:14:31,491 --> 00:14:33,291
with real problems that

676
00:14:33,291 --> 00:14:34,971
have life outside of work.

677
00:14:35,211 --> 00:14:36,801
And the thing is, is they

678
00:14:36,801 --> 00:14:38,001
have very limited time.

679
00:14:38,241 --> 00:14:40,101
We all have such limited time.

680
00:14:40,101 --> 00:14:41,793
We're so busy, and so

681
00:14:42,363 --> 00:14:44,703
people's time is valuable.

682
00:14:44,943 --> 00:14:46,593
And so as a product marketer,

683
00:14:46,653 --> 00:14:49,563
my job is to get to the value.

684
00:14:49,803 --> 00:14:51,393
As quick as possible and

685
00:14:51,393 --> 00:14:52,683
help my salespeople in this

686
00:14:52,683 --> 00:14:54,063
instance get to the value

687
00:14:54,063 --> 00:14:55,310
as quick as possible and

688
00:14:55,310 --> 00:14:57,500
really give them the so what.

689
00:14:57,740 --> 00:14:59,360
And so I had this kind

690
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:00,920
of enlightened moment, if

691
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,480
you will, of everything

692
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,400
I do that goes external.

693
00:15:04,820 --> 00:15:05,990
I should have that thought.

694
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:07,010
This person has very

695
00:15:07,010 --> 00:15:08,420
little time and I need

696
00:15:08,420 --> 00:15:09,470
to really value it.

697
00:15:09,470 --> 00:15:10,880
So it's like every ad,

698
00:15:10,940 --> 00:15:12,710
every blog, every customer

699
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:15,380
story, and every event that

700
00:15:15,380 --> 00:15:16,640
we're bringing people to.

701
00:15:17,315 --> 00:15:19,055
Am I providing them value?

702
00:15:19,055 --> 00:15:20,675
Am I giving them that takeaway

703
00:15:20,675 --> 00:15:22,205
that's not just clickbait

704
00:15:22,205 --> 00:15:23,255
and in it for me, but it's

705
00:15:23,255 --> 00:15:24,275
like they're coming away

706
00:15:24,275 --> 00:15:25,625
with something actionable.

707
00:15:25,805 --> 00:15:26,435
That's what I've

708
00:15:26,435 --> 00:15:27,425
like obsessed about

709
00:15:27,425 --> 00:15:28,175
since going through an

710
00:15:28,175 --> 00:15:28,805
exercise like

711
00:15:29,109 --> 00:15:30,249
Elle: And,  and how quickly

712
00:15:30,249 --> 00:15:31,479
can you get to the value

713
00:15:32,199 --> 00:15:33,489
when you're looking at their

714
00:15:33,489 --> 00:15:35,709
time as, being something of

715
00:15:35,709 --> 00:15:37,433
a, that they're giving to you?

716
00:15:37,821 --> 00:15:38,931
Chris: it's exactly right.

717
00:15:38,931 --> 00:15:39,201
Right.

718
00:15:39,201 --> 00:15:40,821
And again, it's like attention

719
00:15:40,821 --> 00:15:42,501
spans are down, time is down.

720
00:15:42,771 --> 00:15:44,751
And like, I want you build

721
00:15:44,751 --> 00:15:46,229
trust by providing value.

722
00:15:46,229 --> 00:15:47,099
And that's, that's really

723
00:15:47,099 --> 00:15:47,699
what our job is.

724
00:15:48,129 --> 00:15:49,419
Elle: Yeah, exactly.

725
00:15:49,449 --> 00:15:51,249
So, okay, you did this

726
00:15:51,249 --> 00:15:52,869
huge data analysis on

727
00:15:52,869 --> 00:15:54,189
your, your sales data.

728
00:15:54,189 --> 00:15:57,009
You focused in on why you win.

729
00:15:57,309 --> 00:15:59,169
You blended that with

730
00:15:59,169 --> 00:16:00,309
voice of customer from

731
00:16:00,309 --> 00:16:01,629
sales conversations.

732
00:16:01,689 --> 00:16:03,339
And then you shot this around

733
00:16:03,339 --> 00:16:04,914
to your marketing leaders,

734
00:16:04,914 --> 00:16:05,949
to the sales leaders.

735
00:16:05,949 --> 00:16:07,929
You've got buy-in, you've

736
00:16:07,929 --> 00:16:08,829
built out the campaign.

737
00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:12,489
This must have been monstrous

738
00:16:12,549 --> 00:16:13,929
to roll out with a lot

739
00:16:13,929 --> 00:16:15,339
of different stakeholders

740
00:16:15,369 --> 00:16:16,599
across sales and marketing.

741
00:16:16,659 --> 00:16:17,499
I guess like talk through

742
00:16:17,499 --> 00:16:18,729
like what did the rollout

743
00:16:18,729 --> 00:16:19,779
process look like?

744
00:16:19,869 --> 00:16:20,739
You know, did, how

745
00:16:20,739 --> 00:16:21,879
did you enable sales?

746
00:16:22,029 --> 00:16:22,839
Did you have to do like

747
00:16:22,839 --> 00:16:24,309
road, internal road

748
00:16:24,309 --> 00:16:26,619
shows or workshops?

749
00:16:26,619 --> 00:16:27,849
You know, like maybe what kind

750
00:16:27,849 --> 00:16:28,779
of content did you have to

751
00:16:28,779 --> 00:16:30,489
prepare for the salespeople?

752
00:16:31,010 --> 00:16:31,430
Chris: Yeah.

753
00:16:32,015 --> 00:16:33,399
Yeah, well, you know better

754
00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:34,329
than anyone, some of the

755
00:16:34,329 --> 00:16:35,646
values of, companies like

756
00:16:35,646 --> 00:16:36,606
Twilio is write it down.

757
00:16:36,606 --> 00:16:37,446
So I think the first thing

758
00:16:37,446 --> 00:16:38,346
is, what I mentioned was

759
00:16:38,346 --> 00:16:39,636
this the source of truth.

760
00:16:39,936 --> 00:16:40,716
Where is the source of

761
00:16:40,716 --> 00:16:41,556
truth that anyone can

762
00:16:41,582 --> 00:16:43,425
go to, to understand

763
00:16:43,425 --> 00:16:44,625
what this initiative is?

764
00:16:44,625 --> 00:16:46,155
And, and again, going back,

765
00:16:46,155 --> 00:16:46,965
even selling internally,

766
00:16:46,965 --> 00:16:48,015
the so what behind it?

767
00:16:48,045 --> 00:16:49,065
Why are we making this bed?

768
00:16:49,065 --> 00:16:50,925
So that first doc that we

769
00:16:50,925 --> 00:16:51,855
went in and get buy-in,

770
00:16:51,855 --> 00:16:52,905
and sometimes it turns into

771
00:16:52,905 --> 00:16:54,375
a deck, it's so important

772
00:16:54,375 --> 00:16:55,545
and people go back to it.

773
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:56,605
And then you're exactly right.

774
00:16:56,605 --> 00:16:57,235
It does become a

775
00:16:57,235 --> 00:16:58,225
bit of a road show.

776
00:16:58,578 --> 00:16:59,903
so again, the marketing

777
00:16:59,903 --> 00:17:00,833
team you mentioned like

778
00:17:00,893 --> 00:17:02,213
campaign marketing growth,

779
00:17:02,213 --> 00:17:03,203
like those different folks,

780
00:17:03,413 --> 00:17:04,613
you get them on a call and

781
00:17:04,613 --> 00:17:05,813
you go through it, right?

782
00:17:05,813 --> 00:17:06,323
The part that's

783
00:17:06,323 --> 00:17:07,193
important for them.

784
00:17:07,403 --> 00:17:08,363
And then you branch off

785
00:17:08,363 --> 00:17:09,293
into, okay, I need help

786
00:17:09,293 --> 00:17:11,243
with ad creation, creative

787
00:17:11,243 --> 00:17:12,293
that's gonna go into those,

788
00:17:12,293 --> 00:17:13,403
those types of pieces.

789
00:17:13,403 --> 00:17:13,883
I'll get into that

790
00:17:13,883 --> 00:17:14,723
more in a second.

791
00:17:15,098 --> 00:17:16,088
Sales is the same way.

792
00:17:16,088 --> 00:17:17,438
I like to branch off BDR

793
00:17:17,438 --> 00:17:19,106
from, account executives

794
00:17:19,106 --> 00:17:19,916
because I think it's a

795
00:17:19,916 --> 00:17:20,816
slightly different thing.

796
00:17:20,816 --> 00:17:21,416
So then I like to

797
00:17:21,416 --> 00:17:22,676
do A BDR enablement

798
00:17:22,676 --> 00:17:24,296
with the BDR manager.

799
00:17:24,645 --> 00:17:25,375
I like to do sales

800
00:17:25,375 --> 00:17:26,755
enablement with the sales

801
00:17:26,755 --> 00:17:27,955
leaders because they need

802
00:17:27,955 --> 00:17:30,332
to be bought in, as well.

803
00:17:30,332 --> 00:17:31,952
And so it does feel like

804
00:17:31,952 --> 00:17:33,422
a lot, but in those three

805
00:17:33,422 --> 00:17:35,702
conversations, if you

806
00:17:35,702 --> 00:17:36,782
manage your time well,

807
00:17:36,782 --> 00:17:38,402
you can get a lot done.

808
00:17:38,522 --> 00:17:39,362
You just have to be very

809
00:17:39,362 --> 00:17:41,072
specific with what they get.

810
00:17:41,376 --> 00:17:42,386
The, thing that I think is

811
00:17:42,386 --> 00:17:44,246
really important for folks to

812
00:17:44,246 --> 00:17:44,846
look at, 'cause you go, oh,

813
00:17:44,846 --> 00:17:46,286
this is a whole new campaign.

814
00:17:46,286 --> 00:17:47,036
We're spinning up.

815
00:17:47,456 --> 00:17:48,926
We actually used a lot

816
00:17:48,926 --> 00:17:50,336
of previous content

817
00:17:50,336 --> 00:17:52,376
we had, and so you can,

818
00:17:52,406 --> 00:17:54,386
like Retap Creative, you had

819
00:17:54,386 --> 00:17:55,586
content, you had, we looked

820
00:17:55,586 --> 00:17:57,700
at case studies and I, me

821
00:17:57,700 --> 00:17:58,630
and my team read through

822
00:17:58,660 --> 00:17:59,470
case studies and we're like,

823
00:17:59,470 --> 00:18:01,000
okay, we have these four

824
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,560
personas we want to go after.

825
00:18:03,145 --> 00:18:03,985
Where do we have quotes

826
00:18:03,985 --> 00:18:04,945
from those personas and

827
00:18:04,945 --> 00:18:06,085
what case studies, and

828
00:18:06,085 --> 00:18:07,405
then what creative do we

829
00:18:07,405 --> 00:18:08,695
have in those case studies?

830
00:18:08,725 --> 00:18:09,295
Okay, great.

831
00:18:09,295 --> 00:18:10,105
Those are ads.

832
00:18:10,255 --> 00:18:11,575
Quote from that persona,

833
00:18:11,905 --> 00:18:12,655
the creative from that

834
00:18:12,655 --> 00:18:14,365
persona and like that

835
00:18:14,365 --> 00:18:15,535
was able to be reused.

836
00:18:15,535 --> 00:18:16,165
So we didn't need to go

837
00:18:16,165 --> 00:18:17,215
find a new case study.

838
00:18:17,215 --> 00:18:17,395
Right.

839
00:18:17,395 --> 00:18:18,745
You probably have a lot of the

840
00:18:18,745 --> 00:18:20,545
information and then a lot of

841
00:18:20,545 --> 00:18:21,745
the creative and the content.

842
00:18:21,745 --> 00:18:23,965
'cause we have Frame and Adobe

843
00:18:23,965 --> 00:18:25,195
really has a best in class

844
00:18:25,195 --> 00:18:25,885
creative team,

845
00:18:25,885 --> 00:18:26,035
so

846
00:18:26,224 --> 00:18:26,995
anything we produce

847
00:18:26,995 --> 00:18:28,855
is, is, is, top notch.

848
00:18:28,855 --> 00:18:29,545
It's, I mean, it's like

849
00:18:29,545 --> 00:18:29,815
one of the

850
00:18:29,959 --> 00:18:30,835
coolest things ever.

851
00:18:31,090 --> 00:18:32,290
Yeah, it's amazing.

852
00:18:32,290 --> 00:18:33,490
Like people produce unreal

853
00:18:33,490 --> 00:18:34,540
stuff, so like, we're

854
00:18:34,540 --> 00:18:35,470
not gonna go create it

855
00:18:35,470 --> 00:18:36,670
on our own, like as a

856
00:18:36,670 --> 00:18:37,810
product marketing team.

857
00:18:38,139 --> 00:18:39,279
so reuse is good.

858
00:18:39,279 --> 00:18:40,989
And then again, like emails

859
00:18:40,989 --> 00:18:42,219
and, and BDR, like a lot of

860
00:18:42,219 --> 00:18:44,118
that messaging is how do we

861
00:18:44,118 --> 00:18:45,828
give them that structure to,

862
00:18:45,918 --> 00:18:47,088
uh, kind of spin and create

863
00:18:47,088 --> 00:18:49,091
their own, pieces of it, well.

864
00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:50,130
Elle: Yeah.

865
00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:50,580
Yeah.

866
00:18:50,580 --> 00:18:51,240
It's interesting that

867
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:52,165
you included BDRs.

868
00:18:52,170 --> 00:18:52,830
'cause sometimes I feel

869
00:18:52,830 --> 00:18:54,739
like they're left out of

870
00:18:54,739 --> 00:18:57,259
the enablement process, but

871
00:18:57,259 --> 00:18:59,449
they're so critical in terms

872
00:18:59,449 --> 00:19:00,619
of getting foot in the door.

873
00:19:00,842 --> 00:19:01,312
Chris: there's some of my

874
00:19:01,312 --> 00:19:01,882
favorite.

875
00:19:01,882 --> 00:19:01,972
I

876
00:19:01,972 --> 00:19:02,512
started as A

877
00:19:02,551 --> 00:19:03,292
BDR.

878
00:19:03,343 --> 00:19:04,033
Elle: Yeah.

879
00:19:04,033 --> 00:19:05,770
They're  full of energy.

880
00:19:05,830 --> 00:19:06,280
Love it.

881
00:19:06,310 --> 00:19:07,225
Love to the BDRs.

882
00:19:07,752 --> 00:19:08,722
Chris: It's a hard job.

883
00:19:08,842 --> 00:19:09,652
It's a very hard

884
00:19:09,652 --> 00:19:10,852
job, so I, I have a

885
00:19:10,852 --> 00:19:11,542
lot of respect

886
00:19:11,542 --> 00:19:12,052
for, for

887
00:19:12,085 --> 00:19:13,045
Elle: I believe it.

888
00:19:13,195 --> 00:19:13,945
I believe it.

889
00:19:13,975 --> 00:19:14,185
Okay.

890
00:19:14,185 --> 00:19:15,475
So after you launched, what

891
00:19:15,475 --> 00:19:16,555
did this look like from

892
00:19:16,555 --> 00:19:17,755
a customer's perspective?

893
00:19:17,755 --> 00:19:18,745
Like what kind of content

894
00:19:18,775 --> 00:19:19,675
was included in the

895
00:19:19,675 --> 00:19:20,660
scope of the campaign?

896
00:19:21,307 --> 00:19:21,637
Chris: Yeah.

897
00:19:21,637 --> 00:19:23,617
So I, I think this is

898
00:19:23,617 --> 00:19:24,990
the part that like,

899
00:19:24,990 --> 00:19:25,860
was the coolest to me.

900
00:19:25,890 --> 00:19:26,790
'cause it was a, a kind

901
00:19:26,790 --> 00:19:28,320
of like circle the wagon

902
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:29,532
in the right way, type

903
00:19:29,546 --> 00:19:30,656
of a strategy, right?

904
00:19:30,656 --> 00:19:31,796
So if we go back to like.

905
00:19:32,201 --> 00:19:33,521
Crisp Clothing Inc. Let's

906
00:19:33,521 --> 00:19:34,391
say that was within our

907
00:19:34,391 --> 00:19:35,801
target account list, right?

908
00:19:36,041 --> 00:19:38,141
A CMO is getting specific

909
00:19:38,141 --> 00:19:39,371
ads that are targeted.

910
00:19:39,371 --> 00:19:40,421
They're probably not getting

911
00:19:40,421 --> 00:19:41,921
the initial outreach from

912
00:19:42,161 --> 00:19:43,301
sales or BDRs 'cause they're

913
00:19:43,301 --> 00:19:44,381
too high up and we know we

914
00:19:44,381 --> 00:19:45,491
need to build a champion,

915
00:19:45,491 --> 00:19:46,361
but they're getting like

916
00:19:46,748 --> 00:19:47,624
brand differentiation,

917
00:19:47,624 --> 00:19:48,734
those types of messaging.

918
00:19:48,977 --> 00:19:49,607
a little bit later

919
00:19:49,612 --> 00:19:50,147
in the process.

920
00:19:50,147 --> 00:19:51,887
But like we really, from

921
00:19:51,887 --> 00:19:52,667
the start, it was like.

922
00:19:53,102 --> 00:19:54,782
Video creatives and creative

923
00:19:54,782 --> 00:19:56,012
leaders or creative ops

924
00:19:56,012 --> 00:19:57,812
leaders getting a set message,

925
00:19:57,812 --> 00:19:59,582
having BDRs hit them with

926
00:19:59,582 --> 00:20:01,172
a very specific message.

927
00:20:01,352 --> 00:20:02,462
We were actually sending them

928
00:20:02,462 --> 00:20:04,472
a lot around case studies and

929
00:20:04,472 --> 00:20:06,242
proof, so it is again, like

930
00:20:06,242 --> 00:20:07,502
a, don't take it from us.

931
00:20:07,502 --> 00:20:09,212
We were leading with insights

932
00:20:09,362 --> 00:20:10,382
and things that would be like,

933
00:20:10,382 --> 00:20:11,432
here's someone in a similar

934
00:20:11,432 --> 00:20:12,992
company in a similar or role.

935
00:20:13,112 --> 00:20:13,562
Doing it.

936
00:20:13,562 --> 00:20:14,582
We should talk about how you

937
00:20:14,582 --> 00:20:16,022
could do this for your org.

938
00:20:16,292 --> 00:20:17,372
So really insights

939
00:20:17,372 --> 00:20:18,992
driven messaging and ads.

940
00:20:19,232 --> 00:20:20,192
And then like I said, as

941
00:20:20,192 --> 00:20:21,272
we open the door, we're

942
00:20:21,272 --> 00:20:22,562
not turning off the engine.

943
00:20:22,562 --> 00:20:23,222
That's, our job's

944
00:20:23,222 --> 00:20:23,912
not done there.

945
00:20:24,212 --> 00:20:25,262
We know that eventually

946
00:20:25,262 --> 00:20:26,702
this is gonna go to A CMO.

947
00:20:26,702 --> 00:20:28,232
So at that point, yes, we

948
00:20:28,232 --> 00:20:29,552
do want them to get ads.

949
00:20:29,552 --> 00:20:30,572
We do want them to start

950
00:20:30,572 --> 00:20:31,682
seeing frame in our

951
00:20:31,682 --> 00:20:33,272
brand, in their messaging.

952
00:20:33,272 --> 00:20:34,502
And the same thing that we

953
00:20:34,502 --> 00:20:35,912
started talking about is, um.

954
00:20:36,737 --> 00:20:37,637
IT and procurement.

955
00:20:37,877 --> 00:20:38,987
Very similar thing like

956
00:20:38,987 --> 00:20:40,337
security type messaging

957
00:20:40,337 --> 00:20:42,137
and, and ROI type messaging

958
00:20:42,137 --> 00:20:43,397
because at some point

959
00:20:43,787 --> 00:20:45,617
someone internally is

960
00:20:45,617 --> 00:20:46,937
going to have to sell that.

961
00:20:46,937 --> 00:20:47,867
And, and the thing that I

962
00:20:47,867 --> 00:20:49,037
always go back to with our

963
00:20:49,037 --> 00:20:51,617
team is those folks, they

964
00:20:51,617 --> 00:20:53,687
are best in class creatives.

965
00:20:53,843 --> 00:20:54,503
They were never

966
00:20:54,503 --> 00:20:55,703
hired to be sellers.

967
00:20:55,763 --> 00:20:56,513
Selling stuff

968
00:20:56,513 --> 00:20:57,593
internally is hard.

969
00:20:57,593 --> 00:20:58,523
We have challenges selling

970
00:20:58,523 --> 00:21:00,233
stuff internally, so like

971
00:21:00,233 --> 00:21:01,313
we know they're gonna be

972
00:21:01,433 --> 00:21:02,273
putting themselves on the

973
00:21:02,273 --> 00:21:03,983
line at some point when

974
00:21:03,983 --> 00:21:05,003
we're not in the room.

975
00:21:05,003 --> 00:21:06,353
So how do we help surround it

976
00:21:06,353 --> 00:21:07,643
and build that story for them?

977
00:21:07,913 --> 00:21:08,843
And then we had ROI

978
00:21:08,843 --> 00:21:10,523
calculators and presentations

979
00:21:10,523 --> 00:21:11,183
that they could share

980
00:21:11,273 --> 00:21:12,143
internally at the right

981
00:21:12,143 --> 00:21:13,223
time to build that

982
00:21:13,676 --> 00:21:14,186
Elle: Very cool.

983
00:21:15,086 --> 00:21:15,836
So empowering the

984
00:21:15,836 --> 00:21:17,336
champion as well.

985
00:21:17,486 --> 00:21:18,656
Yeah, very smart.

986
00:21:19,436 --> 00:21:20,576
What I think is so

987
00:21:20,576 --> 00:21:22,436
sophisticated is that you

988
00:21:22,436 --> 00:21:24,176
have this buy team that

989
00:21:24,176 --> 00:21:25,916
you've identified, and then

990
00:21:25,916 --> 00:21:27,499
you have this, hyper targeted

991
00:21:27,499 --> 00:21:28,939
content that ladders up to

992
00:21:28,939 --> 00:21:30,439
each member of the buy team,

993
00:21:31,039 --> 00:21:32,989
but timing of everything.

994
00:21:33,034 --> 00:21:35,134
When you're doing an A

995
00:21:35,134 --> 00:21:36,544
BM campaign, that must

996
00:21:36,544 --> 00:21:37,624
be so sophisticated.

997
00:21:37,654 --> 00:21:39,094
'cause you have, however, X

998
00:21:39,094 --> 00:21:40,894
number of accounts, I'm just

999
00:21:40,894 --> 00:21:41,674
gonna throw out a hundred.

1000
00:21:42,304 --> 00:21:42,784
Even if you have

1001
00:21:42,784 --> 00:21:43,684
thousands, right?

1002
00:21:44,074 --> 00:21:45,634
You have that many accounts,

1003
00:21:45,634 --> 00:21:47,583
but then that many individual

1004
00:21:47,583 --> 00:21:48,663
stakeholders within those

1005
00:21:48,663 --> 00:21:49,563
accounts that you're trying

1006
00:21:49,563 --> 00:21:50,913
to engage with, but you

1007
00:21:50,913 --> 00:21:51,633
wanna hit 'em at the right

1008
00:21:51,633 --> 00:21:52,863
time, that's appropriate

1009
00:21:52,863 --> 00:21:53,973
for that specific account.

1010
00:21:54,663 --> 00:21:55,953
I guess how did you do that?

1011
00:21:55,983 --> 00:21:56,613
Like, how did you

1012
00:21:56,613 --> 00:21:57,273
figure that out?

1013
00:21:57,326 --> 00:21:58,356
I realize it's probably a

1014
00:21:58,356 --> 00:22:00,546
multi-pronged solution across.

1015
00:22:01,161 --> 00:22:02,541
Sales and marketing, but

1016
00:22:02,541 --> 00:22:03,593
any insights you can share?

1017
00:22:04,159 --> 00:22:04,699
Chris: I mean, I think

1018
00:22:04,699 --> 00:22:05,929
there's a lot of great systems

1019
00:22:05,929 --> 00:22:07,160
to like, systematically

1020
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,450
run those programs now.

1021
00:22:08,450 --> 00:22:09,620
And a lot of folks on my

1022
00:22:09,620 --> 00:22:10,760
marketing team a lot smarter

1023
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,200
than me who can help.

1024
00:22:12,350 --> 00:22:13,160
You know, we, we've always

1025
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:14,150
heard the, the message

1026
00:22:14,150 --> 00:22:15,350
wherever you go of like engage

1027
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:16,430
the right person at the right

1028
00:22:16,430 --> 00:22:17,630
time with the right message.

1029
00:22:17,630 --> 00:22:19,160
And so, you know, luckily

1030
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,540
there's a lot of technology

1031
00:22:20,540 --> 00:22:21,380
out there to go and

1032
00:22:21,380 --> 00:22:22,160
do that the right way.

1033
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,390
It's never going to be.

1034
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:24,290
Perfect.

1035
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:25,910
But again, I think like going

1036
00:22:25,910 --> 00:22:27,800
back to being able to even

1037
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,360
look at personas and lead

1038
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:31,130
with the right message is

1039
00:22:31,130 --> 00:22:32,270
a big piece of it, right?

1040
00:22:32,270 --> 00:22:33,320
Because like I think

1041
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:34,520
sometimes we go, oh, okay,

1042
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:35,960
like we want to talk about

1043
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,010
how great our product is.

1044
00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:37,070
It.

1045
00:22:37,355 --> 00:22:37,879
no one cares.

1046
00:22:37,879 --> 00:22:38,929
We, they want to know what

1047
00:22:38,929 --> 00:22:40,399
it's gonna do for them.

1048
00:22:40,399 --> 00:22:41,719
And I think, you know, I'm

1049
00:22:41,719 --> 00:22:42,919
pretty realistic in knowing

1050
00:22:42,919 --> 00:22:44,779
that like A CMO is probably

1051
00:22:44,779 --> 00:22:46,459
not gonna like, just cold want

1052
00:22:46,459 --> 00:22:48,349
to talk to us or, you know,

1053
00:22:48,349 --> 00:22:49,849
even a chief creative officer,

1054
00:22:49,849 --> 00:22:50,599
like they're gonna need to

1055
00:22:50,599 --> 00:22:51,949
build up something internally.

1056
00:22:51,949 --> 00:22:52,939
And so our thing is like,

1057
00:22:52,939 --> 00:22:54,439
hey, when you go into

1058
00:22:54,439 --> 00:22:55,159
these accounts, even

1059
00:22:55,159 --> 00:22:56,329
as A BDR, it's like.

1060
00:22:56,764 --> 00:22:58,354
Instead of focusing any

1061
00:22:58,354 --> 00:22:59,914
messages on maybe that

1062
00:22:59,914 --> 00:23:01,564
like C-suite at the start,

1063
00:23:01,564 --> 00:23:02,464
like, let's go director

1064
00:23:02,464 --> 00:23:03,514
level, let's go manager

1065
00:23:03,514 --> 00:23:04,834
level, let's do the creative

1066
00:23:04,834 --> 00:23:06,064
technologist, now let's do

1067
00:23:06,064 --> 00:23:07,744
the video creative and let's

1068
00:23:07,744 --> 00:23:08,854
massage those messages.

1069
00:23:08,854 --> 00:23:10,744
And then we have a team that

1070
00:23:10,744 --> 00:23:11,854
can turn on the engine of

1071
00:23:11,854 --> 00:23:13,504
the CMOs and build that case.

1072
00:23:13,504 --> 00:23:13,924
And at that

1073
00:23:14,054 --> 00:23:15,574
point, account executive

1074
00:23:15,604 --> 00:23:16,624
gets involved too, and

1075
00:23:16,624 --> 00:23:17,659
they kind of have the

1076
00:23:17,659 --> 00:23:18,739
clout sales leaders can get

1077
00:23:18,739 --> 00:23:19,729
involved and reached out.

1078
00:23:19,879 --> 00:23:20,539
And now we have this

1079
00:23:20,539 --> 00:23:21,979
executive level engagement

1080
00:23:21,979 --> 00:23:22,339
that we can

1081
00:23:22,339 --> 00:23:22,579
pull

1082
00:23:22,579 --> 00:23:22,789
on.

1083
00:23:22,898 --> 00:23:24,308
Elle: It is so sophisticated,

1084
00:23:24,308 --> 00:23:25,358
so coordinated.

1085
00:23:25,568 --> 00:23:26,138
I love it.

1086
00:23:26,138 --> 00:23:26,768
So great.

1087
00:23:26,826 --> 00:23:28,056
okay, last question for

1088
00:23:28,056 --> 00:23:29,136
you on this topic, Chris.

1089
00:23:30,186 --> 00:23:31,686
Let's say, um, you know,

1090
00:23:31,686 --> 00:23:32,886
for our product marketers

1091
00:23:32,886 --> 00:23:34,296
out there who are working

1092
00:23:34,296 --> 00:23:36,216
on it, ICP strategy, they're

1093
00:23:36,216 --> 00:23:37,566
so inspired by your story.

1094
00:23:37,566 --> 00:23:38,796
They wanna go out and,

1095
00:23:38,796 --> 00:23:40,956
and build a campaign for

1096
00:23:40,956 --> 00:23:43,086
their ICP or a narrative.

1097
00:23:43,476 --> 00:23:44,436
What advice do

1098
00:23:44,436 --> 00:23:45,156
you have for them?

1099
00:23:45,575 --> 00:23:46,151
Chris: Be customer

1100
00:23:46,431 --> 00:23:47,391
obsessed, like fall in

1101
00:23:47,391 --> 00:23:48,416
love with your customers.

1102
00:23:48,484 --> 00:23:49,890
they will take you to.

1103
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,430
what the answer is honestly,

1104
00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:53,350
I think sometimes we try to

1105
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,240
like over-engineer our own

1106
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:56,380
thought process and stuff

1107
00:23:56,380 --> 00:23:57,850
around these and, and find

1108
00:23:57,850 --> 00:23:59,470
that like silver bullet.

1109
00:23:59,770 --> 00:24:00,700
Just understand your

1110
00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:02,050
customers, listen to them

1111
00:24:02,050 --> 00:24:03,250
and they will tell you

1112
00:24:03,250 --> 00:24:04,840
exactly what you need to do.

1113
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:05,380
So just be

1114
00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:06,040
obsessed with them.

1115
00:24:06,335 --> 00:24:07,055
Elle: I love it.

1116
00:24:07,055 --> 00:24:08,585
You wear the customer's shoes.

1117
00:24:08,645 --> 00:24:09,905
It's such a great value.

1118
00:24:10,063 --> 00:24:10,663
Okay.

1119
00:24:11,053 --> 00:24:12,523
All right, so now it is

1120
00:24:12,523 --> 00:24:14,233
time for our next segment.

1121
00:24:14,293 --> 00:24:15,763
This is such a fun segment.

1122
00:24:15,763 --> 00:24:17,173
It's the message critique.

1123
00:24:17,241 --> 00:24:18,381
so Chris, this is where

1124
00:24:18,381 --> 00:24:19,851
we as product marketing

1125
00:24:19,851 --> 00:24:21,591
experts get to analyze

1126
00:24:21,591 --> 00:24:22,911
real world messaging.

1127
00:24:23,211 --> 00:24:24,351
Um, here's the fun part.

1128
00:24:24,381 --> 00:24:25,731
You, my guests get to

1129
00:24:25,731 --> 00:24:26,661
choose the company.

1130
00:24:27,406 --> 00:24:28,306
Uh, so before we get

1131
00:24:28,306 --> 00:24:29,026
started, I wanna share

1132
00:24:29,026 --> 00:24:30,166
some ground rules.

1133
00:24:30,346 --> 00:24:31,366
So you're gonna pick the

1134
00:24:31,366 --> 00:24:32,206
company, we're gonna talk

1135
00:24:32,206 --> 00:24:33,046
through three things.

1136
00:24:33,376 --> 00:24:34,306
First, you're gonna tell

1137
00:24:34,306 --> 00:24:35,476
me one thing that you

1138
00:24:35,476 --> 00:24:36,676
love about the company's

1139
00:24:36,676 --> 00:24:38,086
product or messaging,

1140
00:24:38,476 --> 00:24:39,496
like what's working,

1141
00:24:39,496 --> 00:24:40,366
what's really standing

1142
00:24:40,366 --> 00:24:41,296
out about the product.

1143
00:24:41,496 --> 00:24:42,471
And then second, you're

1144
00:24:42,471 --> 00:24:43,551
gonna share something

1145
00:24:43,551 --> 00:24:44,991
you wish the PMM maybe

1146
00:24:44,991 --> 00:24:45,891
would've done differently.

1147
00:24:45,921 --> 00:24:47,451
Maybe it's something

1148
00:24:47,451 --> 00:24:47,901
that could have made

1149
00:24:47,901 --> 00:24:48,831
the message clearer or

1150
00:24:48,831 --> 00:24:50,781
stronger, more impactful.

1151
00:24:50,811 --> 00:24:51,981
Use a customer story.

1152
00:24:52,101 --> 00:24:52,731
It could be any

1153
00:24:52,731 --> 00:24:53,361
number of things.

1154
00:24:53,451 --> 00:24:54,711
And then third.

1155
00:24:55,208 --> 00:24:56,087
tell me how they can

1156
00:24:56,087 --> 00:24:57,497
iterate or take the message

1157
00:24:57,497 --> 00:24:58,367
to the next level or

1158
00:24:58,367 --> 00:24:59,327
their creative campaigns.

1159
00:24:59,327 --> 00:25:00,737
They could do cool content,

1160
00:25:00,737 --> 00:25:01,645
they could think about,

1161
00:25:01,731 --> 00:25:02,871
something of that nature.

1162
00:25:03,223 --> 00:25:04,602
so no negativity, just a

1163
00:25:04,602 --> 00:25:06,462
thoughtful, constructive,

1164
00:25:06,522 --> 00:25:07,722
super fun critique.

1165
00:25:07,842 --> 00:25:08,292
Ready to go.

1166
00:25:08,566 --> 00:25:09,016
Chris: Yep.

1167
00:25:09,157 --> 00:25:10,717
This is perfect.

1168
00:25:10,717 --> 00:25:10,987
Let's do

1169
00:25:10,987 --> 00:25:11,257
it.

1170
00:25:11,422 --> 00:25:11,834
Elle: Okay.

1171
00:25:11,834 --> 00:25:13,544
So tell me about a product

1172
00:25:13,544 --> 00:25:15,464
or company that may have

1173
00:25:15,494 --> 00:25:16,544
caught your attention.

1174
00:25:16,544 --> 00:25:16,604
I.

1175
00:25:17,105 --> 00:25:17,435
Chris: Okay.

1176
00:25:17,435 --> 00:25:19,865
I am going to go with

1177
00:25:19,865 --> 00:25:20,975
one that has been on my

1178
00:25:20,975 --> 00:25:22,368
mind, quite a lot lately.

1179
00:25:22,428 --> 00:25:23,838
It's superhuman.

1180
00:25:23,838 --> 00:25:24,738
Have you heard of Superhuman?

1181
00:25:24,738 --> 00:25:24,768
I.

1182
00:25:25,109 --> 00:25:26,159
Elle: Only when you mentioned

1183
00:25:26,159 --> 00:25:26,969
it to me the other day,

1184
00:25:26,969 --> 00:25:28,709
but I have not otherwise

1185
00:25:28,709 --> 00:25:29,369
had not heard of them.

1186
00:25:29,369 --> 00:25:29,849
So I'm going to

1187
00:25:29,849 --> 00:25:31,229
superhuman.com.

1188
00:25:31,354 --> 00:25:32,584
Chris: Go to superhuman.com.

1189
00:25:32,674 --> 00:25:33,664
It is, you know, if

1190
00:25:33,664 --> 00:25:34,504
you wanna know what

1191
00:25:34,504 --> 00:25:36,334
it is, big line here.

1192
00:25:36,334 --> 00:25:37,954
But it is the most productive

1193
00:25:38,014 --> 00:25:39,814
email app ever made.

1194
00:25:40,266 --> 00:25:41,443
which is intriguing, but

1195
00:25:41,443 --> 00:25:43,993
it's basically, better way

1196
00:25:43,993 --> 00:25:45,763
to go about your email.

1197
00:25:45,834 --> 00:25:46,704
that's like the simple

1198
00:25:46,704 --> 00:25:47,544
way that I would put it.

1199
00:25:47,544 --> 00:25:48,524
I don't use it.

1200
00:25:48,524 --> 00:25:49,634
I've just heard about it

1201
00:25:49,964 --> 00:25:51,284
and I've been looking at

1202
00:25:51,284 --> 00:25:52,628
them, quite a bit from a

1203
00:25:52,628 --> 00:25:53,618
product standpoint, which is

1204
00:25:53,618 --> 00:25:54,128
interesting.

1205
00:25:54,497 --> 00:25:55,194
Elle: So I pull up

1206
00:25:55,194 --> 00:25:56,604
their homepage and

1207
00:25:56,604 --> 00:25:57,684
super clean, very crisp.

1208
00:25:57,684 --> 00:26:00,589
Their big headline is

1209
00:26:00,969 --> 00:26:02,429
say, four hours per

1210
00:26:02,429 --> 00:26:04,554
person every single week.

1211
00:26:04,989 --> 00:26:05,949
So that tells me right

1212
00:26:05,949 --> 00:26:07,539
away, okay, the value

1213
00:26:07,539 --> 00:26:08,499
is gonna be time save.

1214
00:26:08,859 --> 00:26:09,690
But tell me more

1215
00:26:09,690 --> 00:26:10,260
about the messaging.

1216
00:26:10,260 --> 00:26:11,130
What are you loving about it?

1217
00:26:11,556 --> 00:26:12,506
Chris: Yeah, so this one's

1218
00:26:12,506 --> 00:26:13,556
interesting because the

1219
00:26:13,556 --> 00:26:15,560
headline doesn't say what

1220
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:16,430
it is, but it gives you the,

1221
00:26:16,430 --> 00:26:17,540
so what, which I think is

1222
00:26:17,540 --> 00:26:18,620
actually really interesting.

1223
00:26:18,620 --> 00:26:19,700
So save four hours

1224
00:26:19,743 --> 00:26:20,523
that brings me in.

1225
00:26:20,523 --> 00:26:21,333
I like that.

1226
00:26:21,742 --> 00:26:22,800
so I do feel the, so what

1227
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,491
there, and then that, first

1228
00:26:24,491 --> 00:26:25,211
line that I mentioned,

1229
00:26:25,211 --> 00:26:26,021
it's the most productive

1230
00:26:26,021 --> 00:26:27,401
email app ever made.

1231
00:26:27,401 --> 00:26:27,701
Very

1232
00:26:28,696 --> 00:26:30,076
mean, my, my big thing is I do

1233
00:26:30,076 --> 00:26:31,156
not need to scroll to actually

1234
00:26:31,156 --> 00:26:32,416
figure out objectively.

1235
00:26:32,761 --> 00:26:34,051
What it is, I now know

1236
00:26:34,051 --> 00:26:35,461
what it is and the so what

1237
00:26:35,461 --> 00:26:37,453
behind it without having a

1238
00:26:37,453 --> 00:26:39,133
scroll, whether I'm on my

1239
00:26:39,133 --> 00:26:40,543
laptop or I'm on my phone,

1240
00:26:40,573 --> 00:26:41,743
it's all above the fold.

1241
00:26:41,876 --> 00:26:42,527
and I get it.

1242
00:26:42,767 --> 00:26:43,517
And then, you know, I

1243
00:26:43,517 --> 00:26:44,447
think it's supported here.

1244
00:26:44,447 --> 00:26:45,707
Collaborate faster, get more

1245
00:26:45,707 --> 00:26:47,327
done with AI powered email.

1246
00:26:47,777 --> 00:26:49,358
would say like that kind

1247
00:26:49,358 --> 00:26:50,378
of got pulled with the,

1248
00:26:50,378 --> 00:26:51,968
say four hours as well.

1249
00:26:52,028 --> 00:26:52,778
I like the idea

1250
00:26:52,778 --> 00:26:53,948
of collaboration.

1251
00:26:54,062 --> 00:26:54,872
AI powered email.

1252
00:26:54,872 --> 00:26:55,382
I think everyone's

1253
00:26:55,382 --> 00:26:56,252
putting AI and they're

1254
00:26:56,252 --> 00:26:57,692
either H one or H two.

1255
00:26:57,798 --> 00:26:59,328
but very descriptive is, is

1256
00:26:59,328 --> 00:27:00,738
what I like and very easy to

1257
00:27:00,738 --> 00:27:01,248
consume

1258
00:27:01,518 --> 00:27:01,683
at

1259
00:27:01,698 --> 00:27:01,758
the

1260
00:27:01,971 --> 00:27:02,661
Elle: I love that.

1261
00:27:02,781 --> 00:27:03,501
I love that.

1262
00:27:03,621 --> 00:27:04,791
One thing, curious about your

1263
00:27:04,791 --> 00:27:06,471
perspective on this feedback

1264
00:27:06,471 --> 00:27:07,251
that I've gotten multiple

1265
00:27:07,251 --> 00:27:09,353
times in my career is, to

1266
00:27:09,353 --> 00:27:12,203
avoid using absolute language.

1267
00:27:12,233 --> 00:27:12,683
So for example, they

1268
00:27:12,683 --> 00:27:14,543
have Superhuman, is the

1269
00:27:14,543 --> 00:27:16,073
most productive email

1270
00:27:16,073 --> 00:27:17,419
app ever, ever made?

1271
00:27:17,487 --> 00:27:18,057
that's a pretty

1272
00:27:18,057 --> 00:27:19,313
bold statement.

1273
00:27:19,733 --> 00:27:20,453
Well, I'm just curious

1274
00:27:20,453 --> 00:27:21,053
your thoughts on it.

1275
00:27:21,366 --> 00:27:22,026
Chris: I agree.

1276
00:27:22,193 --> 00:27:23,029
I think it is bold.

1277
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:23,899
It's a good point.

1278
00:27:23,899 --> 00:27:26,306
I think, back it with data and

1279
00:27:26,306 --> 00:27:27,266
so I think like one of the,

1280
00:27:27,326 --> 00:27:28,886
one of the pieces I'd say here

1281
00:27:28,886 --> 00:27:30,596
is like, you have such a great

1282
00:27:30,596 --> 00:27:31,976
stat with save four hours

1283
00:27:31,976 --> 00:27:33,236
per person every single week.

1284
00:27:33,236 --> 00:27:34,016
And I think even if you

1285
00:27:34,016 --> 00:27:35,186
scroll down, it's like

1286
00:27:35,486 --> 00:27:37,226
saves teams over 15 million

1287
00:27:37,226 --> 00:27:39,026
hours every single year.

1288
00:27:39,363 --> 00:27:40,263
Fly through your email

1289
00:27:40,263 --> 00:27:41,733
twice as fast as before.

1290
00:27:41,733 --> 00:27:42,753
So like the one thing I would

1291
00:27:42,753 --> 00:27:44,241
probably think about, but,

1292
00:27:44,453 --> 00:27:45,923
but I agree where it's, you

1293
00:27:45,923 --> 00:27:47,816
know, is it the most, do I

1294
00:27:47,816 --> 00:27:49,466
have to say it's the most, do

1295
00:27:49,466 --> 00:27:51,416
I believe that as a prospect?

1296
00:27:51,757 --> 00:27:52,957
I think maybe a little

1297
00:27:52,957 --> 00:27:54,307
bit of messaging around.

1298
00:27:54,658 --> 00:27:56,225
Why it saves like,

1299
00:27:56,225 --> 00:27:57,035
what is that?

1300
00:27:57,135 --> 00:27:58,305
other piece could be

1301
00:27:58,305 --> 00:27:59,205
interesting there, right?

1302
00:27:59,205 --> 00:27:59,895
We're a little loose

1303
00:27:59,895 --> 00:28:00,825
with most productive.

1304
00:28:00,825 --> 00:28:01,365
We're a little loose

1305
00:28:01,365 --> 00:28:02,025
with collaborate

1306
00:28:02,025 --> 00:28:03,945
faster, get more done.

1307
00:28:04,065 --> 00:28:04,965
It's like what is the

1308
00:28:04,965 --> 00:28:07,065
thing that makes you

1309
00:28:07,065 --> 00:28:08,175
be able to do that?

1310
00:28:08,565 --> 00:28:09,195
That would be one

1311
00:28:09,195 --> 00:28:09,705
thing I would try to

1312
00:28:09,705 --> 00:28:10,575
probably massage out in

1313
00:28:10,575 --> 00:28:10,725
that

1314
00:28:10,815 --> 00:28:10,935
H

1315
00:28:11,028 --> 00:28:11,778
Elle: Sure.

1316
00:28:11,838 --> 00:28:12,288
Yeah.

1317
00:28:12,288 --> 00:28:13,248
I'm kind of surprised

1318
00:28:13,248 --> 00:28:13,968
that the first thing they

1319
00:28:13,968 --> 00:28:14,958
put on there is that it's

1320
00:28:14,958 --> 00:28:16,788
built for Gmail or Outlook.

1321
00:28:16,818 --> 00:28:17,988
That must be for their

1322
00:28:17,988 --> 00:28:19,128
customers, something

1323
00:28:19,158 --> 00:28:21,271
like a top priority, not

1324
00:28:21,271 --> 00:28:22,411
differentiator necessarily,

1325
00:28:22,411 --> 00:28:23,671
but capability that they

1326
00:28:23,671 --> 00:28:24,421
would need to highlight.

1327
00:28:24,632 --> 00:28:25,818
I'm surprised that the AI

1328
00:28:25,818 --> 00:28:26,958
powered inbox assistant

1329
00:28:26,958 --> 00:28:28,368
isn't higher, but I'm not

1330
00:28:28,368 --> 00:28:29,658
their target customer, so.

1331
00:28:29,974 --> 00:28:31,229
I wouldn't necessarily know,

1332
00:28:31,229 --> 00:28:33,389
but I do love the stats

1333
00:28:33,389 --> 00:28:34,259
that they throw out here.

1334
00:28:34,510 --> 00:28:34,870
Chris: I love

1335
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:36,100
the stats and I actually

1336
00:28:36,100 --> 00:28:37,660
love that email is the

1337
00:28:37,660 --> 00:28:38,980
biggest problem hiding

1338
00:28:38,980 --> 00:28:40,090
in plain sight, which is

1339
00:28:40,090 --> 00:28:41,260
further down the page.

1340
00:28:41,260 --> 00:28:42,430
I'm wondering if they ever

1341
00:28:42,430 --> 00:28:44,235
explored pulling that up

1342
00:28:44,235 --> 00:28:45,862
'cause it's such a yes.

1343
00:28:45,862 --> 00:28:47,857
I. Problem statement and like

1344
00:28:47,941 --> 00:28:49,388
this is like their messaging

1345
00:28:49,388 --> 00:28:50,768
doc on a page, which is cool.

1346
00:28:50,768 --> 00:28:51,848
Like we spend hours on

1347
00:28:51,848 --> 00:28:53,768
email, we often reply late.

1348
00:28:53,768 --> 00:28:54,218
That's, yep.

1349
00:28:54,218 --> 00:28:54,908
I feel that.

1350
00:28:55,183 --> 00:28:55,903
don't even reply.

1351
00:28:55,903 --> 00:28:56,323
Yep.

1352
00:28:56,323 --> 00:28:57,883
I feel that we lose deals.

1353
00:28:58,153 --> 00:28:58,303
It's

1354
00:28:58,303 --> 00:28:59,383
like, well what does that lead

1355
00:28:59,422 --> 00:28:59,773
to?

1356
00:29:00,013 --> 00:29:00,463
Makes sense?

1357
00:29:00,463 --> 00:29:01,423
Like you and you start

1358
00:29:01,423 --> 00:29:02,353
saying, we lose deals.

1359
00:29:02,383 --> 00:29:02,743
Okay.

1360
00:29:02,743 --> 00:29:03,913
This is for salespeople.

1361
00:29:04,033 --> 00:29:04,753
Block our teams.

1362
00:29:04,753 --> 00:29:05,413
Oh, it's for more than

1363
00:29:05,413 --> 00:29:06,643
salespeople, miss our goals.

1364
00:29:06,643 --> 00:29:07,483
We all feel that

1365
00:29:07,693 --> 00:29:08,713
not anybody's fault.

1366
00:29:08,713 --> 00:29:09,703
Like this is actually

1367
00:29:09,703 --> 00:29:11,173
like such a great

1368
00:29:11,173 --> 00:29:12,733
messaging statement.

1369
00:29:13,048 --> 00:29:14,278
I'm like, Ooh, do we

1370
00:29:14,278 --> 00:29:15,298
consider pulling this up?

1371
00:29:15,328 --> 00:29:16,798
AB tested a little bit.

1372
00:29:16,948 --> 00:29:17,638
Try to get problem

1373
00:29:17,638 --> 00:29:18,538
statement up a bit.

1374
00:29:18,775 --> 00:29:19,765
so, so they have some

1375
00:29:19,765 --> 00:29:20,905
like really good stuff

1376
00:29:20,965 --> 00:29:21,895
littered in throughout.

1377
00:29:22,244 --> 00:29:23,264
Elle: They do a really

1378
00:29:23,264 --> 00:29:25,634
good job with empathy

1379
00:29:25,943 --> 00:29:27,083
in articulating that

1380
00:29:27,083 --> 00:29:27,978
through their copy.

1381
00:29:28,406 --> 00:29:29,066
Chris: Yes.

1382
00:29:29,156 --> 00:29:29,936
And that is the thing.

1383
00:29:29,936 --> 00:29:31,226
We all get overwhelmed

1384
00:29:31,226 --> 00:29:32,246
with email and they're

1385
00:29:32,246 --> 00:29:33,296
like, it's not your fault.

1386
00:29:33,881 --> 00:29:34,601
It's like, but we

1387
00:29:34,601 --> 00:29:35,621
all, we all do.

1388
00:29:35,774 --> 00:29:36,734
so it is interesting when

1389
00:29:36,734 --> 00:29:37,604
you talked about like most

1390
00:29:37,604 --> 00:29:39,074
productive, it, it, you

1391
00:29:39,074 --> 00:29:40,334
scroll down, they obviously

1392
00:29:40,334 --> 00:29:41,834
do superhuman AI that they

1393
00:29:42,074 --> 00:29:43,004
probably had to introduce

1394
00:29:43,004 --> 00:29:43,934
as their first scroll, but

1395
00:29:43,934 --> 00:29:44,654
when they get into their

1396
00:29:44,654 --> 00:29:46,634
value props like respond

1397
00:29:46,634 --> 00:29:48,014
faster to what matters most.

1398
00:29:48,014 --> 00:29:48,794
It's like, that's another

1399
00:29:48,794 --> 00:29:49,484
one I would actually

1400
00:29:49,484 --> 00:29:51,244
probably think about

1401
00:29:51,244 --> 00:29:52,624
pulling up higher because

1402
00:29:52,624 --> 00:29:54,272
that feels tangible to me.

1403
00:29:54,272 --> 00:29:55,322
So they have like a lot

1404
00:29:55,322 --> 00:29:55,532
of.

1405
00:29:56,072 --> 00:29:57,062
Great messaging and it's

1406
00:29:57,062 --> 00:29:58,412
very, what I love is I

1407
00:29:58,412 --> 00:29:59,582
scroll is like follow

1408
00:29:59,582 --> 00:30:00,572
up on time every time.

1409
00:30:00,572 --> 00:30:01,442
Share and comment with you.

1410
00:30:01,442 --> 00:30:02,252
It's, it is very

1411
00:30:02,252 --> 00:30:03,392
clean, succinct.

1412
00:30:03,662 --> 00:30:05,372
I see it right as I say it

1413
00:30:05,612 --> 00:30:06,782
and it keeps hooking me to

1414
00:30:06,782 --> 00:30:07,472
go deeper and

1415
00:30:07,472 --> 00:30:07,952
deeper, which

1416
00:30:07,956 --> 00:30:08,736
Elle: it does.

1417
00:30:09,096 --> 00:30:09,816
It does.

1418
00:30:10,086 --> 00:30:10,626
Great job.

1419
00:30:10,626 --> 00:30:11,496
Superhuman pmms.

1420
00:30:12,151 --> 00:30:12,909
We love it.

1421
00:30:12,939 --> 00:30:13,629
10 outta 10.

1422
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:15,320
Chris: Love it.

1423
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:15,950
Huge fan.

1424
00:30:15,950 --> 00:30:16,880
So it is good.

1425
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:17,450
And like you said,

1426
00:30:17,450 --> 00:30:18,500
it's, it's clean, it's

1427
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:19,460
creative centric on the

1428
00:30:19,460 --> 00:30:20,510
start too, which is nice.

1429
00:30:20,510 --> 00:30:20,600
I

1430
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,260
like to see that.

1431
00:30:21,570 --> 00:30:22,140
Elle: Yeah.

1432
00:30:22,140 --> 00:30:22,740
Yeah.

1433
00:30:22,770 --> 00:30:24,210
So when we were chatting

1434
00:30:24,270 --> 00:30:25,410
ahead of this conversation,

1435
00:30:25,410 --> 00:30:26,700
you mentioned maybe another

1436
00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:27,720
company you were looking at.

1437
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:28,530
Do you still have

1438
00:30:28,530 --> 00:30:29,550
them on your mind?

1439
00:30:29,816 --> 00:30:30,776
Chris: I do, I do.

1440
00:30:30,776 --> 00:30:32,124
So the other one, which I

1441
00:30:32,124 --> 00:30:33,234
use a lot and I'm sure people

1442
00:30:33,234 --> 00:30:34,974
have heard is Airtable.

1443
00:30:35,891 --> 00:30:36,341
so again.

1444
00:30:37,001 --> 00:30:37,691
Of course.

1445
00:30:37,691 --> 00:30:39,911
as part of this fun exercise,

1446
00:30:39,911 --> 00:30:40,931
like you start looking at

1447
00:30:40,931 --> 00:30:42,251
all of the, the companies

1448
00:30:42,251 --> 00:30:43,513
and, you know, pick ones.

1449
00:30:43,513 --> 00:30:45,073
And I, I, I love Airtable.

1450
00:30:45,073 --> 00:30:46,063
I think it's amazing.

1451
00:30:46,063 --> 00:30:48,352
There's a, an individual who,

1452
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,124
used to be at, at Frame io.

1453
00:30:50,394 --> 00:30:51,624
She was an absolute power

1454
00:30:51,624 --> 00:30:52,764
user of Airtable to show

1455
00:30:52,764 --> 00:30:53,664
like all of the things

1456
00:30:53,664 --> 00:30:54,474
that you could do with it.

1457
00:30:54,474 --> 00:30:54,714
It's an

1458
00:30:54,714 --> 00:30:55,704
amazing, amazing,

1459
00:30:55,708 --> 00:30:56,758
Elle: Yeah, I've used it at

1460
00:30:56,758 --> 00:30:58,168
like almost every company

1461
00:30:58,168 --> 00:30:58,918
I've ever looked at for

1462
00:30:58,918 --> 00:31:00,568
as long as I can remember.

1463
00:31:00,568 --> 00:31:00,628
Yeah,

1464
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,047
Chris: and it really is great.

1465
00:31:03,047 --> 00:31:04,547
It has this like simplicity

1466
00:31:04,547 --> 00:31:05,327
yet, you know, there's a

1467
00:31:05,327 --> 00:31:06,677
lot of power behind it,

1468
00:31:07,247 --> 00:31:08,027
but it's an interesting

1469
00:31:08,027 --> 00:31:09,137
space right now, right?

1470
00:31:09,137 --> 00:31:10,247
Because a lot of these, what

1471
00:31:10,247 --> 00:31:11,837
I would call as a novice,

1472
00:31:11,837 --> 00:31:13,937
like project management

1473
00:31:13,937 --> 00:31:15,077
tools are like a better

1474
00:31:15,077 --> 00:31:16,187
version of a spreadsheet.

1475
00:31:16,187 --> 00:31:16,757
'cause we all end

1476
00:31:16,757 --> 00:31:17,327
up falling back to

1477
00:31:17,327 --> 00:31:18,864
spreadsheets like they are.

1478
00:31:19,119 --> 00:31:20,678
Becoming a lot more.

1479
00:31:20,678 --> 00:31:21,338
And it's interesting

1480
00:31:21,338 --> 00:31:22,358
to see like what space

1481
00:31:22,358 --> 00:31:23,318
they're going after.

1482
00:31:23,798 --> 00:31:25,151
So we go into this

1483
00:31:25,151 --> 00:31:27,041
one and we see digital

1484
00:31:27,041 --> 00:31:28,511
operations for the AI era.

1485
00:31:28,511 --> 00:31:29,021
You mentioned this

1486
00:31:29,021 --> 00:31:29,711
on superhuman.

1487
00:31:29,861 --> 00:31:31,331
I'm not the persona, probably

1488
00:31:31,331 --> 00:31:32,021
buyer persona

1489
00:31:32,021 --> 00:31:32,141
for

1490
00:31:32,141 --> 00:31:32,561
Airtable.

1491
00:31:32,561 --> 00:31:32,861
I don't

1492
00:31:32,861 --> 00:31:34,295
think I don't know what

1493
00:31:34,295 --> 00:31:36,485
digital operations is.

1494
00:31:36,605 --> 00:31:37,985
I mean, I get it as I say

1495
00:31:37,985 --> 00:31:38,765
it, but I'm like, is that a

1496
00:31:38,765 --> 00:31:40,355
category they're going after?

1497
00:31:40,355 --> 00:31:41,735
Maybe it's a Forest or

1498
00:31:41,735 --> 00:31:42,845
Gartner kind of thing.

1499
00:31:43,445 --> 00:31:44,525
AI era.

1500
00:31:45,032 --> 00:31:46,106
you know, I think it's like.

1501
00:31:46,661 --> 00:31:47,381
Okay.

1502
00:31:47,381 --> 00:31:48,971
And then when I see create

1503
00:31:48,971 --> 00:31:50,111
modern business apps to

1504
00:31:50,111 --> 00:31:51,521
manage and automate critical

1505
00:31:51,521 --> 00:31:53,531
processes, I, my thing is,

1506
00:31:53,531 --> 00:31:55,481
is like, are they an AI app

1507
00:31:55,481 --> 00:31:56,741
builder or are they trying

1508
00:31:56,741 --> 00:31:57,881
to do that?

1509
00:31:57,911 --> 00:31:58,811
That was the piece that

1510
00:31:58,811 --> 00:31:59,981
I was like, huh, what is

1511
00:31:59,999 --> 00:32:01,384
Elle: Yeah, right.

1512
00:32:01,384 --> 00:32:02,194
Would this be like for

1513
00:32:02,194 --> 00:32:05,614
the COO business unit org?

1514
00:32:05,614 --> 00:32:07,414
Like who is this for?

1515
00:32:07,414 --> 00:32:09,154
Is it for PMs, is it

1516
00:32:09,154 --> 00:32:11,683
for, yeah, it's really

1517
00:32:11,683 --> 00:32:12,763
hard to decipher.

1518
00:32:12,828 --> 00:32:13,744
Chris: it's a little,

1519
00:32:13,744 --> 00:32:15,034
you know, ambiguous.

1520
00:32:15,034 --> 00:32:16,084
And it might be because it's

1521
00:32:16,084 --> 00:32:17,854
new category creation and

1522
00:32:17,854 --> 00:32:20,044
ai and frankly, like I do

1523
00:32:20,044 --> 00:32:21,574
know this, like Airtable.

1524
00:32:22,969 --> 00:32:24,979
Can be so much, but that

1525
00:32:24,979 --> 00:32:26,269
can also be overwhelming

1526
00:32:26,269 --> 00:32:28,069
as a prospect or a user

1527
00:32:28,069 --> 00:32:29,179
or someone looking at it.

1528
00:32:29,179 --> 00:32:31,197
And so I really empathize

1529
00:32:31,197 --> 00:32:32,337
with the product marketers

1530
00:32:32,337 --> 00:32:33,567
for Airtable because it's

1531
00:32:33,567 --> 00:32:35,727
like, how do you, not over

1532
00:32:35,727 --> 00:32:36,957
promise, but you still

1533
00:32:37,077 --> 00:32:38,457
paint the like picture of

1534
00:32:38,457 --> 00:32:39,477
where, where it's going

1535
00:32:39,507 --> 00:32:40,677
and where they need to go.

1536
00:32:40,947 --> 00:32:42,417
But when I see modern business

1537
00:32:42,417 --> 00:32:44,607
apps, I'm not really sure

1538
00:32:44,907 --> 00:32:45,657
that can mean so

1539
00:32:45,657 --> 00:32:46,437
much different thing,

1540
00:32:46,437 --> 00:32:47,427
especially with like

1541
00:32:47,457 --> 00:32:48,657
AI coders and things

1542
00:32:48,657 --> 00:32:49,437
like that coming out

1543
00:32:49,437 --> 00:32:49,947
in the world.

1544
00:32:50,511 --> 00:32:51,321
Elle: So when I scroll

1545
00:32:51,321 --> 00:32:53,121
down, I see agility at

1546
00:32:53,121 --> 00:32:54,891
scale for every function

1547
00:32:55,011 --> 00:32:56,331
and immediately I think So

1548
00:32:56,331 --> 00:32:57,411
you're everything to everyone,

1549
00:32:58,832 --> 00:32:59,402
Chris: Yes,

1550
00:32:59,421 --> 00:33:00,531
Elle: which is what all

1551
00:33:00,531 --> 00:33:02,781
the, all the strategy gurus

1552
00:33:02,781 --> 00:33:04,341
out there say not to do.

1553
00:33:04,848 --> 00:33:06,228
so, but I'm curious, you know,

1554
00:33:06,228 --> 00:33:07,698
what, what advice do you have

1555
00:33:07,758 --> 00:33:10,248
for the pmms over at Airtable?

1556
00:33:11,598 --> 00:33:12,078
What do you think they

1557
00:33:12,078 --> 00:33:13,518
need to do with first,

1558
00:33:13,518 --> 00:33:14,508
first order of business?

1559
00:33:14,971 --> 00:33:16,261
Chris: So this is where I go

1560
00:33:16,261 --> 00:33:19,561
back to ICP and my exercise.

1561
00:33:19,561 --> 00:33:20,761
Like I know that they want

1562
00:33:20,761 --> 00:33:21,991
to evolve and push the

1563
00:33:21,991 --> 00:33:24,271
envelope and go, but I think

1564
00:33:24,271 --> 00:33:25,561
we all, like, I would also

1565
00:33:25,561 --> 00:33:27,542
encourage to look at where

1566
00:33:27,542 --> 00:33:29,702
can you win and is it within

1567
00:33:29,702 --> 00:33:30,962
like the core competency?

1568
00:33:30,992 --> 00:33:32,072
'cause it's, they're pushing

1569
00:33:32,072 --> 00:33:33,812
a lot of explore app building,

1570
00:33:34,126 --> 00:33:35,553
and like that modern business

1571
00:33:35,553 --> 00:33:36,393
app and those pieces.

1572
00:33:36,393 --> 00:33:37,953
And I totally get that, but

1573
00:33:37,953 --> 00:33:39,963
I'd be like, how do I get

1574
00:33:39,963 --> 00:33:41,613
someone to get the aha moment

1575
00:33:41,613 --> 00:33:43,323
without scrolling and above?

1576
00:33:43,713 --> 00:33:44,943
The, the fold.

1577
00:33:45,003 --> 00:33:45,903
I think that is

1578
00:33:45,903 --> 00:33:46,923
the, the big piece.

1579
00:33:46,923 --> 00:33:48,573
And, and to be honest,

1580
00:33:48,573 --> 00:33:49,863
like my advice would

1581
00:33:49,863 --> 00:33:51,513
be can we simplify?

1582
00:33:51,742 --> 00:33:52,934
that's what I would be looking

1583
00:33:52,934 --> 00:33:55,035
at because as someone who

1584
00:33:55,035 --> 00:33:57,675
uses Airtable, I don't use

1585
00:33:57,675 --> 00:33:58,875
it in any of the way that

1586
00:33:58,875 --> 00:34:00,405
I see on this homepage.

1587
00:34:00,405 --> 00:34:00,495
And

1588
00:34:00,495 --> 00:34:01,005
so I think it's

1589
00:34:01,005 --> 00:34:01,275
what

1590
00:34:01,275 --> 00:34:01,425
they

1591
00:34:01,552 --> 00:34:02,385
want businesses.

1592
00:34:03,405 --> 00:34:03,915
that's

1593
00:34:03,949 --> 00:34:05,269
Elle: so interesting.

1594
00:34:05,895 --> 00:34:06,255
Chris: Yeah.

1595
00:34:06,557 --> 00:34:07,157
Elle: Wow.

1596
00:34:07,187 --> 00:34:08,370
That's very,

1597
00:34:08,387 --> 00:34:09,199
very surprising.

1598
00:34:10,154 --> 00:34:11,054
Chris: And so it's like

1599
00:34:11,144 --> 00:34:13,064
how do we make sure we

1600
00:34:13,064 --> 00:34:14,234
make it obvious and make it

1601
00:34:14,234 --> 00:34:16,484
very simple and then earn

1602
00:34:16,484 --> 00:34:18,134
the right to expand the

1603
00:34:18,134 --> 00:34:19,724
opportunities from there?

1604
00:34:19,724 --> 00:34:21,044
So go back to ICP and core

1605
00:34:21,044 --> 00:34:21,824
use cases.

1606
00:34:22,292 --> 00:34:23,132
Elle: Right, right.

1607
00:34:23,162 --> 00:34:24,602
Or perhaps they're trying

1608
00:34:24,602 --> 00:34:27,512
to do a pivot, and the

1609
00:34:27,512 --> 00:34:30,032
use case that you are

1610
00:34:30,032 --> 00:34:32,312
most familiar with is no

1611
00:34:32,312 --> 00:34:33,662
longer like a strategic

1612
00:34:33,662 --> 00:34:35,072
focus for the company,

1613
00:34:35,612 --> 00:34:36,422
but even in that case.

1614
00:34:37,256 --> 00:34:39,836
Still focusing on ICP for

1615
00:34:39,836 --> 00:34:42,356
this new use case would be

1616
00:34:42,806 --> 00:34:45,133
helpful to tell, to get their,

1617
00:34:45,223 --> 00:34:46,598
their story to be a little

1618
00:34:46,598 --> 00:34:47,958
punchier, a little clearer.

1619
00:34:48,648 --> 00:34:49,068
Chris: Yeah.

1620
00:34:49,068 --> 00:34:49,758
I mean, and it, it

1621
00:34:49,758 --> 00:34:50,538
is a great point.

1622
00:34:50,538 --> 00:34:51,618
Like as they push into

1623
00:34:51,618 --> 00:34:52,938
these areas, it's like maybe

1624
00:34:52,938 --> 00:34:53,778
they already have a lot of

1625
00:34:53,778 --> 00:34:55,728
traction in, in other areas.

1626
00:34:55,728 --> 00:34:56,628
I just always question 'em.

1627
00:34:56,628 --> 00:34:57,952
Like there's a lot of people

1628
00:34:57,952 --> 00:34:59,002
do, a lot of, most people use

1629
00:34:59,002 --> 00:35:00,442
it the way, you know, I and

1630
00:35:00,442 --> 00:35:01,612
our teams use it, and then I.

1631
00:35:02,305 --> 00:35:02,905
You know, they're,

1632
00:35:02,905 --> 00:35:03,625
they're pushing someone

1633
00:35:03,625 --> 00:35:04,135
else, but how do you

1634
00:35:04,135 --> 00:35:04,855
get, how do you get both?

1635
00:35:04,855 --> 00:35:05,635
And then like, I'm kind

1636
00:35:05,635 --> 00:35:06,535
of interested in like,

1637
00:35:07,165 --> 00:35:07,915
how do I get there?

1638
00:35:07,915 --> 00:35:08,545
Right now it feels

1639
00:35:08,545 --> 00:35:09,505
a bit overwhelming.

1640
00:35:09,535 --> 00:35:10,375
It's like, what would I

1641
00:35:10,375 --> 00:35:11,425
want to do within like

1642
00:35:11,425 --> 00:35:12,385
marketing that they have on

1643
00:35:12,385 --> 00:35:14,125
this page of like automate

1644
00:35:14,125 --> 00:35:15,475
campaign creation, execution,

1645
00:35:15,475 --> 00:35:16,465
drive sales, and improve.

1646
00:35:17,005 --> 00:35:17,450
that's not the

1647
00:35:17,450 --> 00:35:18,500
way I ever saw it.

1648
00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:18,650
And

1649
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:19,220
so,

1650
00:35:19,342 --> 00:35:20,002
It's interesting.

1651
00:35:20,062 --> 00:35:20,422
It's really

1652
00:35:20,422 --> 00:35:20,902
interesting.

1653
00:35:21,025 --> 00:35:21,655
Elle: It's interesting.

1654
00:35:21,685 --> 00:35:22,825
I am very curious though,

1655
00:35:22,855 --> 00:35:24,883
about what the imagery

1656
00:35:24,883 --> 00:35:25,633
that they have that

1657
00:35:25,633 --> 00:35:27,073
show kind of some of the

1658
00:35:27,103 --> 00:35:28,903
vision or capabilities.

1659
00:35:29,305 --> 00:35:30,475
it, it gets me intrigued.

1660
00:35:30,565 --> 00:35:30,685
I'll

1661
00:35:30,771 --> 00:35:31,976
Chris: So I love that

1662
00:35:31,976 --> 00:35:32,606
you call this out, and

1663
00:35:32,606 --> 00:35:33,296
I actually think this is

1664
00:35:33,296 --> 00:35:34,046
a really important one.

1665
00:35:34,046 --> 00:35:35,096
I'd, I'd love your take on

1666
00:35:35,096 --> 00:35:38,036
this is I love product imagery

1667
00:35:38,186 --> 00:35:38,456
on

1668
00:35:38,456 --> 00:35:38,876
website,

1669
00:35:39,234 --> 00:35:39,454
Elle: yes.

1670
00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:41,160
I'm, I'm for it.

1671
00:35:41,219 --> 00:35:41,639
Yes.

1672
00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:42,209
Oh, yes.

1673
00:35:42,209 --> 00:35:42,479
Yeah.

1674
00:35:42,539 --> 00:35:44,519
I don't like illustrations

1675
00:35:44,891 --> 00:35:46,301
No, gimme the screenshot.

1676
00:35:46,361 --> 00:35:47,501
I wanna see what it does.

1677
00:35:48,022 --> 00:35:49,012
Chris: Yes, I, I

1678
00:35:49,012 --> 00:35:49,822
completely agree.

1679
00:35:49,822 --> 00:35:50,962
And so like, again, frame

1680
00:35:50,962 --> 00:35:53,332
IO beauty of it is our

1681
00:35:53,512 --> 00:35:54,712
product designers are

1682
00:35:54,712 --> 00:35:55,792
best in class as well.

1683
00:35:56,122 --> 00:35:57,922
So like I love our ui,

1684
00:35:57,952 --> 00:35:58,972
which is good 'cause I

1685
00:35:59,092 --> 00:36:00,112
am in product marketing

1686
00:36:00,112 --> 00:36:01,612
there, so I want it all

1687
00:36:01,612 --> 00:36:02,602
over the place, everywhere.

1688
00:36:02,602 --> 00:36:03,443
I'm glad you feel the same

1689
00:36:03,448 --> 00:36:04,702
because I just want someone to

1690
00:36:04,702 --> 00:36:05,632
be able to like read and then

1691
00:36:05,632 --> 00:36:06,262
quickly get the

1692
00:36:06,262 --> 00:36:06,772
visuals

1693
00:36:06,772 --> 00:36:06,922
so they

1694
00:36:07,061 --> 00:36:07,781
Elle: Yeah.

1695
00:36:07,961 --> 00:36:09,611
The thing is when you don't

1696
00:36:09,611 --> 00:36:11,231
use real product imagery

1697
00:36:11,231 --> 00:36:13,179
and you just have some maybe

1698
00:36:13,179 --> 00:36:14,229
attractive, but it's just

1699
00:36:14,229 --> 00:36:17,109
an illustration to me that

1700
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:18,819
as a customer that tells me

1701
00:36:18,819 --> 00:36:19,989
that something's not real.

1702
00:36:20,649 --> 00:36:21,519
You don't have something

1703
00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:22,599
that's actually real.

1704
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:23,979
So it, it diminishes

1705
00:36:24,129 --> 00:36:26,409
my faith or, or it, um,

1706
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:28,232
kind of puts some, uh.

1707
00:36:28,562 --> 00:36:29,612
I guess question into

1708
00:36:29,612 --> 00:36:30,932
mind into how much of

1709
00:36:30,932 --> 00:36:31,712
what you're showing me

1710
00:36:31,712 --> 00:36:33,362
is actually a capability

1711
00:36:33,392 --> 00:36:35,252
versus just marketing fluff.

1712
00:36:35,474 --> 00:36:36,734
Chris: Which I think is so

1713
00:36:36,734 --> 00:36:39,164
important in this AI era.

1714
00:36:39,194 --> 00:36:39,494
Let's go

1715
00:36:39,494 --> 00:36:40,364
back to their, their

1716
00:36:40,364 --> 00:36:40,664
call

1717
00:36:40,664 --> 00:36:41,987
because but I think a lot

1718
00:36:41,987 --> 00:36:43,907
of executives and customers

1719
00:36:43,907 --> 00:36:44,867
are challenged with.

1720
00:36:45,178 --> 00:36:46,642
Is this real or is this

1721
00:36:46,642 --> 00:36:47,782
just part of the pitch?

1722
00:36:47,842 --> 00:36:50,122
And so to your point, I think

1723
00:36:50,122 --> 00:36:51,262
as we start to like push the

1724
00:36:51,262 --> 00:36:52,972
envelope of what's real versus

1725
00:36:52,972 --> 00:36:54,232
what's not, the ability to

1726
00:36:54,232 --> 00:36:56,212
show it and bring it to life

1727
00:36:56,212 --> 00:36:58,462
is, is absolutely critical.

1728
00:36:58,462 --> 00:36:59,242
And honestly, I think it

1729
00:36:59,242 --> 00:37:00,292
could be a differentiator

1730
00:37:00,322 --> 00:37:01,492
when being compared

1731
00:37:01,492 --> 00:37:02,452
against other companies.

1732
00:37:03,145 --> 00:37:04,075
Elle: I totally

1733
00:37:04,075 --> 00:37:04,945
agree with you.

1734
00:37:05,395 --> 00:37:06,115
Very helpful.

1735
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:06,880
Alright, Airtable.

1736
00:37:07,491 --> 00:37:08,352
We love your product.

1737
00:37:08,352 --> 00:37:09,402
We're very intrigued.

1738
00:37:09,877 --> 00:37:10,958
We wanna hear, more.

1739
00:37:12,278 --> 00:37:12,548
Okay.

1740
00:37:12,548 --> 00:37:15,038
So Chris, before we go, I

1741
00:37:15,038 --> 00:37:16,328
wanna have a gratitude moment

1742
00:37:16,388 --> 00:37:18,518
and say thank you so much

1743
00:37:18,518 --> 00:37:19,838
for your willingness to come

1744
00:37:19,838 --> 00:37:21,398
on and share your expertise

1745
00:37:21,458 --> 00:37:23,468
with me and the PM community.

1746
00:37:23,843 --> 00:37:24,803
Thank you so much.

1747
00:37:25,126 --> 00:37:26,440
I know I personally get so

1748
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,600
inspired by conversations

1749
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,220
like this and truthfully

1750
00:37:30,220 --> 00:37:31,570
makes me wonder how my

1751
00:37:31,570 --> 00:37:33,100
guests get to be so amazing.

1752
00:37:33,370 --> 00:37:35,735
So, I know for me the way that

1753
00:37:35,735 --> 00:37:37,745
I've grown as a PMM is I've

1754
00:37:37,745 --> 00:37:39,425
been shaped and my skills have

1755
00:37:39,425 --> 00:37:41,675
been honed in by the pmms that

1756
00:37:41,675 --> 00:37:43,505
surrounded me in my career.

1757
00:37:43,505 --> 00:37:44,795
So I wanna ask you, who

1758
00:37:44,795 --> 00:37:46,505
are one or two pmms who

1759
00:37:46,505 --> 00:37:47,405
have really impacted

1760
00:37:47,405 --> 00:37:48,395
you in your career?

1761
00:37:49,006 --> 00:37:49,936
Chris: You of course for

1762
00:37:49,936 --> 00:37:51,106
bringing me on the this show.

1763
00:37:51,106 --> 00:37:51,646
I really do

1764
00:37:51,646 --> 00:37:52,216
appreciate it

1765
00:37:52,216 --> 00:37:54,286
and it's awesome to be working

1766
00:37:54,286 --> 00:37:55,186
with a great PMM and,

1767
00:37:55,186 --> 00:37:55,786
and think through

1768
00:37:55,786 --> 00:37:56,566
these different things.

1769
00:37:56,566 --> 00:37:56,926
'cause that's

1770
00:37:56,926 --> 00:37:57,556
how we learn too.

1771
00:37:57,556 --> 00:37:59,206
But I, you know, throughout my

1772
00:37:59,206 --> 00:38:00,256
career I've been really lucky.

1773
00:38:00,256 --> 00:38:01,306
I had Scott Fallon,

1774
00:38:01,306 --> 00:38:02,446
Collin Zaleski, who

1775
00:38:02,446 --> 00:38:03,256
got me into product

1776
00:38:03,256 --> 00:38:05,206
marketing, uh, originally.

1777
00:38:05,506 --> 00:38:06,706
Uh, at a startup I was

1778
00:38:06,706 --> 00:38:08,150
at, they are absolutely

1779
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:09,860
amazing at Twilio.

1780
00:38:09,860 --> 00:38:11,060
Was lucky to work for

1781
00:38:11,060 --> 00:38:12,710
Vanessa Thompson and then

1782
00:38:12,710 --> 00:38:14,180
Dave Berg, and then work

1783
00:38:14,180 --> 00:38:16,361
with Taylor Del, and, and all

1784
00:38:16,361 --> 00:38:17,651
actually like very different

1785
00:38:17,651 --> 00:38:19,901
types of pmms, which is an

1786
00:38:19,901 --> 00:38:20,891
absolutely amazing thing.

1787
00:38:20,891 --> 00:38:21,971
And then, you know, like I

1788
00:38:21,971 --> 00:38:24,221
said, frame io I, we are a

1789
00:38:24,221 --> 00:38:25,811
product for creatives and

1790
00:38:25,811 --> 00:38:28,256
my, manager is, his name is.

1791
00:38:29,206 --> 00:38:30,586
Amazing PMM crafts,

1792
00:38:30,586 --> 00:38:31,846
like unreal narratives.

1793
00:38:31,846 --> 00:38:32,776
He also like used to

1794
00:38:32,776 --> 00:38:33,886
shoot commercials, so

1795
00:38:33,886 --> 00:38:34,756
comes from like an ultra

1796
00:38:34,756 --> 00:38:35,806
creative background.

1797
00:38:36,161 --> 00:38:37,025
he's unbelievable.

1798
00:38:37,025 --> 00:38:38,585
And so, um, you know, I've

1799
00:38:38,585 --> 00:38:39,515
never been like, challenged

1800
00:38:39,515 --> 00:38:40,805
to push myself more than,

1801
00:38:40,805 --> 00:38:41,675
than I have with him.

1802
00:38:41,675 --> 00:38:42,995
And so I just keep getting

1803
00:38:42,995 --> 00:38:44,375
luckier and luckier honestly,

1804
00:38:44,375 --> 00:38:45,935
as I, I have all my career.

1805
00:38:45,935 --> 00:38:47,825
So I am very humble and

1806
00:38:47,825 --> 00:38:49,115
very grateful and have

1807
00:38:49,115 --> 00:38:50,045
a lot of hard work to do

1808
00:38:50,045 --> 00:38:51,575
to, to consider myself a

1809
00:38:51,575 --> 00:38:52,175
good PMM.

1810
00:38:52,744 --> 00:38:54,424
Elle: Oh, that's awesome.

1811
00:38:54,454 --> 00:38:55,804
I'm sure they're so,

1812
00:38:55,863 --> 00:38:56,879
flattered to hear that.

1813
00:38:56,909 --> 00:38:57,689
Amazing.

1814
00:38:57,839 --> 00:38:59,009
Okay, my last question

1815
00:38:59,009 --> 00:39:00,179
for you, Chris.

1816
00:39:00,359 --> 00:39:01,379
Where else can we

1817
00:39:01,379 --> 00:39:02,399
access your expertise?

1818
00:39:02,399 --> 00:39:03,089
Is it just best to

1819
00:39:03,089 --> 00:39:03,664
find you on LinkedIn?

1820
00:39:04,315 --> 00:39:04,795
Chris: Yes.

1821
00:39:04,795 --> 00:39:09,205
as a, uh, LinkedIn fan person,

1822
00:39:09,205 --> 00:39:10,285
and that's where I started

1823
00:39:10,285 --> 00:39:10,795
my career.

1824
00:39:10,795 --> 00:39:10,975
That

1825
00:39:10,975 --> 00:39:11,185
is the

1826
00:39:11,185 --> 00:39:11,485
place

1827
00:39:11,485 --> 00:39:13,615
to go, uh, for all,

1828
00:39:13,615 --> 00:39:14,305
all networking.

1829
00:39:14,305 --> 00:39:15,055
But yes, please

1830
00:39:15,055 --> 00:39:15,985
find me on LinkedIn.

1831
00:39:15,985 --> 00:39:17,485
Please reach out and connect.

1832
00:39:17,545 --> 00:39:18,055
Um,

1833
00:39:18,374 --> 00:39:18,824
Elle: We,

1834
00:39:18,895 --> 00:39:19,255
Chris: Happy to

1835
00:39:19,255 --> 00:39:20,185
talk to, to product

1836
00:39:20,185 --> 00:39:20,635
marketers.

1837
00:39:20,990 --> 00:39:21,942
Elle: Again, thank you so

1838
00:39:21,942 --> 00:39:23,862
much Chris, and thank you

1839
00:39:23,862 --> 00:39:26,292
PMM listeners for coming on

1840
00:39:26,292 --> 00:39:27,492
this adventure with us today.

1841
00:39:27,492 --> 00:39:29,742
I hope this episode leaves

1842
00:39:29,742 --> 00:39:31,632
you with inspiration to take,

1843
00:39:31,692 --> 00:39:33,219
uh, with you in the next

1844
00:39:33,219 --> 00:39:34,299
steps in your own journey.