Have you ever dreamed of running away from your 9 to 5?
To start a cafe and a bakery where you can surround yourself with delicious
bread and people and food all day long.
If so, stick around because that's exactly what today's guest did.
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And let's dive in.
Our guest today is CEO and founder of Baking Boss, Naomi Rose.
Naomi is a food business strategist and baking coach who helps
people achieve baking success.
With a passion for baking and an unwavering commitment to helping others
achieve their goals, Naomi has made it her mission to help as many people
as possible learn how to bake and build successful baking businesses.
Drawing on her extensive experience in the non profit sector, where she honed
her skills in events, communications, digital marketing, project management,
Naomi quickly established herself as a force to be reckoned with in
the competitive world of food and hospitality, winning national awards.
Today, Naomi aims to inspire and educate aspiring bakers and food
entrepreneurs from all walks of life with our latest business, Baking Boss,
sharing her wealth of knowledge and expertise through online workshops and
podcasts, Baking Boss Kitchen Secrets.
Whether you're looking to take your baking skills to the next level or build
a thriving food business from scratch, Naomi is the ultimate guide and mentor
ready to help you achieve your dream.
Welcome, Naomi.
Thanks for being here today.
Oh, thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Absolutely.
Okay.
As I was saying, it's not very often that you hear of somebody actually leaving
their office job and starting a cafe or a bar or bakery and you did that.
So can you talk about what it was like to make that decision to change your
whole life and your career all at once?
Yeah, so, I mean, in a way it was kind of something that was just bigger
inside of me than I realized, I think.
It wasn't anywhere near an easy decision, but I just got to a
point where I thought, I need to do something I absolutely love doing.
I just don't want to wake up in 20, 30 years time and think, I've
done a job for someone else, which I just, I'm just don't really care.
It's not that, you know, I didn't want to do a good job.
I just didn't care about it.
And I thought, well, I only live once, so I've just got to give it a go.
Otherwise, I don't want to be that person that spends their time going, what if at
the end of their life, just not doing it.
So it was a more of a case of, I have to do this.
Otherwise, I'm just always going to wonder what's going to happen.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
I hear that more and more from people too.
The more I talk to people.
So talk to us a little bit about you were in a nine to five and then you left that.
Can you walk us through that journey a little bit?
Yeah, so leaving the nine to five, I mean, when I used to work
for other people, I was quite a strong minded person and still am.
And I just found it difficult to do stuff that I didn't
always 100 percent agree with.
I was always do it, but I just always felt that the direction
was wrong for what I believed in.
So I was like, there's no other option.
I'm going to have to do my own business because that's the way my brain thinks.
But I think the biggest and most challenging thing transitioning from
working for someone else to then going and opening your business is
suddenly you're you've got no backup.
You don't have the person that you can go to and go, Hey, I'm, I'm stuck.
What do I do?
Cause you are that person.
You have to work out the decisions yourself.
And certainly in, I think in hospitality, particularly, it's really quite tricky
because you have service with a smile.
So every other business that you think you could maybe ask for help
or support, you really don't know what's going on behind the scenes
because people have this kind of.
everything's absolutely fine and everything's okay.
So it, in a way, you kind of feel like you're completely on your
own and you're just flying solo.
And it's, it was very daunting to begin with.
It was actually really quite tricky, but I, I, I knew that I had a plan.
I had a, I literally had a step by step spreadsheet that was color coded.
It had project management all over it.
And I thought, I've just got to keep taking one step at a time and just
work through this list and just.
keep the faith that I've got a direction and I know where I want to go.
And in a way, I was still working full time when I was building
the cafe and bar and the cafe and bar needed a complete overhaul.
It was, it was a building that wasn't a cafe and bar and I set basically the
best part of eight weeks to do it in.
So, but, and it took three months in the end.
So we went over schedule because I wanted to be open before Christmas
because I knew Christmas from a business point of view would bring in
the money, which is crazy and equally a good strategy because you were going
into the biggest time, busiest time of year, not knowing what you're doing.
I knew it from a financial point of view, it made the most sense.
So.
I was still working 9 5 until the November, I think mid November, and
we opened on the 4th of December at the end, so I was juggling two
very busy projects at the same time.
And yeah, it was, it was definitely, like, my head was so much focused on
getting to opening day that I actually then didn't really, really consider.
How much effort I would need once it's open.
So I got to opening day and thought, yes, I've done it and then
realized like, no, this is it now.
This is every day.
So I was absolutely shattered by the time we got to open day.
But it was, I mean, it was an amazing transition, but yes, it was.
You needed a strong mind and sometimes you just did not have that.
It wasn't always there.
It was definitely lots of self doubt, lots of questioning what
you were doing and learning.
It was such a big learning curve.
I didn't, you know, I didn't realize we needed building control.
I mean, these are all basic things that people go, well, if you've
done it before, you would know that.
Well, I hadn't done it before, so I didn't know that, but we learned.
So it, but it was a really steep learning curve.
So why a cafe?
I think for me, I'd, I'd always baked, I baked all my whole life.
It'd always been there in the background.
And it's something that my grandmother, my business was named after my
grandmother, Elsie May, and she always wanted her own tea room.
And I spent a lot of time with her and she had this kind of amazing zest for
life, if you like, she was very positive.
She always saw the bright side of everything.
She never complained.
And I wanted to create somewhere.
that people could go relax, meet friends, be there on their own, or, you know,
just feel that they can go to a place where they can take their dog, enjoy a
nice coffee, maybe hear some live music.
And that's what I wanted to create.
I wanted to create this space that people could enjoy, because I felt
that I could offer that to people.
And that'd be that.
comfort away from home that they sometimes need.
And it, it just felt that was the right place for me.
And it combined my love of baking and the, the bar actually was more
from a business point of view.
I knew the bar would help support the cafe, which was my true
passion, but the bar would be where we'd make a bit more money.
So sensibly, it was a good addition to have.
Plus I get still the fun evenings and themes and all of that sort of thing.
And I just loved doing events.
So that was, it was really what was.
That's sort of got me into the whole business, really.
Absolutely.
And where was this magical cafe located?
It was in just north of Cambridgeshire in the UK.
So probably about an hour outside of London.
Okay.
And then you went about adding to it as well in a really interesting way, right?
Yeah.
So obviously when we 2018.
So we had 15 months of basically getting to grips with everything,
learning everything before we then went straight into lockdown and the pandemic.
So a thing that nobody could have possibly predicted as sort of
throwing this banner in the works.
But myself and the team went, well, let's use this as an opportunity.
We don't get very often in business and particularly in hospitality
where we've been able to stop.
So let's look at everything we're doing well, let's get rid of the
stuff we're not doing so well and don't want to do anymore, and
let's focus on what we do next.
And I always loved baking bread.
It was something I'd done Probably the only baking course that I did
was in bread, believe it or not.
So I hadn't trained professionally or anything like that, but I
loved working with bread, but I didn't get time with the cafe.
There just wasn't enough hours and we had a tiny kitchen.
It was like almost like a home kitchen set up.
So baking bread was just not going to happen, but we'd had so many problems
with our Bakery supplier because I use local and they had gone through terrible
problems with staff So sometimes we we wouldn't get our bread until lunchtime and
when you're serving breakfasts from 9 a.
m.
People want bread Yeah, it's like it's like a standard, right?
right, so let maybe let's just start baking bread for just the cafe and
we'll just try it and see where we go and I, you know, I told my
staff and we all started serving it and people go, I love your bread.
Where'd you get it from?
Like, well, we bake it.
Well, can you make us some?
Like, no, we've got other, which is tidy.
So, but yes, we started sort of selling the odd bit here and there on the side.
And then when we went back into the second lockdown, I started actually
delivering it and selling it to people as well, because I had the capacity
then because the cafe wasn't running.
100 percent of the time.
So I was like, I think this town needs a bakery.
There's a, there's a gap in the market.
It doesn't have one.
It's not, there's no artisan bakery here.
and I think people might like it.
So I'd initially gone to the bank to get a loan because they were offering
resilience loans at the time in the UK.
And the bank said no, because I wasn't in, I wasn't making profit every month.
And I'm like, I'm breaking even it's locked down.
I think I'm doing all right.
And that's the whole purpose of a resilience loan to help you
get back on your feet again.
Anyway, that's a whole other question.
Yeah, exactly.
I don't know.
But anyway.
it, one of my friends said, well, why don't you think about crowdfunding?
And I'm like, that's a, it's a brilliant idea because actually what
it does is I can involve the community.
I can find out if this is actually really what it, what they want in the town.
And I'm building a customer base for the bakery before it's even opened.
It's brilliant.
And I then get the funding that I need from people investing into my idea
that then can help me open my business.
So that's what we did.
And.
The support was unbelievably overwhelming.
I didn't quite believe how much we ended up raising.
It was 17, 000 pounds in the UK.
So absolutely more than what we asked for from three, over 300 people had
invested as well, and it was just phenomenal community support for it.
So we were able to open it and it was, it was amazing and we had
to, I mean, the, we had to teach ourselves lots of new bakes as well
because sourdough was not my thing.
I did not get on with sourdough.
We were not friends for a very long time.
I actually think it took us about three months.
before we mastered how to get a sourdough loaf to work properly.
It took that long and that was practicing recording every day and
we literally had a sheet and it was like a scientific experiment where we
just adjusted things slightly every day until we got what we wanted.
So yeah, so we added the bakery which opened in January 22 and I decided to
enter the team into Britain's Best Slave Awards, partly just to go out and have a
bit of a networking day and eat lots of lovely bread and meet lots of bakeries.
And this was three months after opening, and we went and won the award, which I'm
completely blown away by because It was something that we'd gone in just kind of
going, we'll be open minded, we'll get some feedback, we'll have a nice time.
But it was such a, such a good way to celebrate all the amazing things
that we'd worked so hard to do.
And actually truly showing the hard work was definitely worth actually what
we'd gone through to get to that point.
So it was, it was really quite special.
And we completely couldn't believe it really happened to us, really.
That's amazing.
so, you changed this year from the bakery, correct?
So can you talk a little bit about that as well?
Like this next pivot that you made?
Yeah, so not long after we'd won that award.
And we were thought, right, we're just, we're starting to come out
of the pandemic, we've got the bakery going, everything's going
in the right direction, finally.
And then the cost of living crisis hit, the war in Ukraine and Russia had
an, almost an immediate impact on the, bakery where our flour delivery went
from three days overnight to 14 days and everything just started to get,
all the energy bills rose, everything started getting more expensive.
And even though we still had a good regular customers, they weren't
spending as much and there's only so much I can do to put up profits.
And There seemed to be also a bit of a, in hospitality as well as a lot of
other industries here in the UK, there seemed to be a lot of staffing shortages,
so bakeries that were in the bigger cities compared to me were offering
staff that were working for me that were apprentice level, jobs that were
requiring skills of people with three to four years experience, which was
paying a hell of a lot more than I had.
And I mean, of course, why wouldn't they take those kinds of jobs?
So it was, it was really tricky and they kept saying to
me, I don't know what to do.
I'm like, you have to do what's right for you.
I'm like, I can't pay you.
What you're asking for, because it's not the right standard for the industry.
So it was just, everything got very difficult.
And in the end I had to make the decision to close the business,
which was absolutely the last resort.
And I kept it going as long as I could.
financially this situation wasn't going to improve and the bills kept
just getting larger and I hadn't built up enough cash flow from building
the bakery and everything else and getting through COVID to weather
the storm of what was coming next, which we didn't know how long it was.
So the most sensible decision to make was to close it, which
was, was very, very difficult.
And one that I know I wasn't the only one very upset about it.
I had a lot of customers who were, but incredibly supportive.
And I actually, when we were talking about how I would go about what the PR
messaging was, I'm like, I'm going to tell people what's actually going on.
I'd rather they understood what's going on behind the scenes and have other
baking businesses similar to mine, feel that there's some comfort knowing that
this is not just happening to them.
It's happening to me as well.
And in a way, it's like I say, service with a smile, you keep everything behind
closed doors in hospitality because you don't want people to see any struggles,
but sometimes I think it really helps people understand what goes on, and
they're allowed then to support in the ways that they feel comfortable to do so.
I think there's some really extreme power to what you're saying because
there's so many, there's this precedence in the world that we can't show those
struggles that we can't tell people.
What's happening?
Like you're saying service with a smile, especially in hospitality and a lot of
I've seen it in other industries as well.
And, you know, my own parents had a business for 26 years and, you know,
all it took was two big box brand stores going and not far from them
and their business just diminished.
And it's, it's a very hard decision to make to close a business or to,
to make a pivot like you've done.
That's very extreme like that because you put so much passion and energy and focus
and time and resources and everything into that business that I think that
being able to tell people why you're making the decisions you're making.
Like you said, it really, really can help them.
Yes, I believe so.
And I think people don't, people don't realize it actually costs you
money to close a business as well.
So actually you have to accommodate for that.
So, you know, sometimes talking about all of these things that really go on
behind the scenes can help make people.
better and stronger in the industry because they're realizing
there is a support out there.
And I was very fortunate because when I first opened my business, I was really
scared of the competition, but actually we talked quite a lot to each other.
And we, particularly during the pandemic, it was quite useful
to have that support from other businesses, but people don't see that.
And I think a lot.
Baking businesses, particularly if they're on their own, they
don't get to have that support because they don't know it's there.
And that's what, that's what I kind of wanted to share was, you
know, you're not alone in this.
This is where, what's happening, there's ups and downs and we can
all be here to support each other.
Absolutely.
I'm, I know I'm, I'm thinking of my cousin who actually bought a cafe the week before
he bought the cafe in February of 2020.
And March 13th is when everything shut down here in California, so it was very
much like he had this brand new cafe he just bought and he had to figure
it out, like what am I going to do?
And I think that had he had more people to talk to, you know, he did
really well and got very creative because he didn't know what he didn't
know, but I think that there's a lot of how much more could you have done?
If you knew and were able to have those conversations with others,
not just you, but general bakers and general people in the industry.
I 100 percent agree.
I think it's very, very difficult.
And when I first started the business, I'd gone from nine to five office
to suddenly running a cafe bar.
And then later on, obviously bakery.
And I was flying blind.
I, there was no one I could find that could help support
with a small cafe business.
There was lots of big food consultants and food brands and
restaurants, but it wasn't what I was.
So everything I learned was Googled.
Or guest and it, you know, I wasted a lot of money.
My staff used to laugh at me 'cause I've got used to keep getting stuff
wrong with the Amazon orders as well.
So they'd either tie up giant or tiny for kitchen equipment.
So I'd like have the massive great big tweezers when they only
wanted small ones or like big, big lads that they didn't need.
I mean, it was just ridiculous.
But I mean it, they were just the small examples of stuff that just.
got wrong, but it was, there was a lot of learning and a lot of my time was taken up
by just trying to work it all out without knowing what to do and how to do it.
And those are steep, steep learning curves that you have to make up quickly, right?
Like you said, I'm going to do this.
I'm starting to do this.
And now I'm like, okay, I thought I needed to know this.
Isn't that always the case, right?
Like you think you only need to know like.
Do things like, okay, this is what it's going to take.
And then all of a sudden you open it up and you're like, Oh, wait,
I need to know all the things.
Yes.
And then, you know, you, you don't really appreciate that customers are then there
and they have questions and you've kind of got to try to answer them confidently.
We're thinking, is that the right answer?
I'm going to make it up confidently until I get there.
Exactly.
Bake it till you make it is my face.
There you go, there you go.
Now, along those lines and the problems and the challenges that you
ran into trying to navigate that, can you talk a little bit about what
you did after about your current business and what you created after
you decided to close down the bakery.
Yeah.
So it closing the bakery was definitely just, it was, it was
horrible in many, many ways, but it was absolutely the right decision.
There was no other option I'd run out of options.
And even though my head will always go, what else could I have done?
And that will always happen.
I think I know that I did exactly the best I could do with what I had
at the time, but where it kind of led me to was I've just done, been
through this whole entire journey.
I've done a lot of it on my own with no support.
And well, that said I have my team and my team were brilliant and my friends
and family around me were also brilliant.
So there was support there, but the actual business running management and all that
sort of thing, it was all by myself.
I did it sort of on my own.
And I didn't want to lose all this knowledge and everything I'd learned from
those years of just figuring it all out.
I wanted to use it for good.
So that's exactly why I created Baking Boss.
In fact, the day after the official paperwork went through on the closing of.
The cafe, this new business started, so I did it straight away.
It wasn't like I had much of a downbeat.
I'm like, no, I'm not.
I'm not gonna just gone through all of this just to let it fester in my mind and
vanish because people need help and people need support, and I don't want their, I
want us to be able to talk openly about.
you know, business finances, how to price your products, how to do stuff,
what happens when environmental health comes around, because that is always
terrifying to know what to do when environmental health comes around.
But I want to be able to have these conversations with people and people
be able to ask questions and get honest answers so that they can
create successful businesses they want to run in their own ways.
And I thought, well, I'm going to create Baking Boss because it gives me the
opportunity to still do what I love, which is bake, because I love baking, so I do
a lot of recipe writing, and I share my recipes with my followers because they
love baking too, and I get loads of tips from them, they're amazing, I just learn
so much from them as much as I share my recipes, I learn a lot from them.
And then I can also talk about the other side of it, which is the business bit,
which A lot of people that bake go in because they love baking, so they'll
start a business because they love baking, but actually the business side
is not their zone of genius, and it's a whole different skill and knowledge set.
So I wanted to be able to give.
We lost you for a second.
Those of you watching, Naomi is in the middle of the UK, and there's
tremendous storms happening, so we're going to bear with us here for a second.
Make sure I have a lot more, a lot more baking to do.
I am.
We lost you for whatever you were just saying.
Okay.
Sorry, do you want to start that again?
Yes.
Can you repeat that very passionate statement?
I was like, no!
No problem.
Yeah, so.
Baking boss started the day after I closed the cafe and bar and I wanted it to not
lose any of the knowledge and all of that information I learned over the years.
And I don't want people to ever feel alone doing their own baking businesses.
I was alone for a lot of it and it was quite lonely.
And I Want people to be able to go somewhere for support.
They can ask questions and not feel like they're being stupid.
We can talk about finances openly, which is a topic that
often doesn't get talked about.
What happens when environmental health comes round.
All of those bits that you're like, I just don't know what to do.
But that's why Baking Boss exists.
But it also gives me the opportunity to bake as well, because I love baking.
I love creating recipes and that's where the whole business began.
So I share all the recipes that I've learned or the skills I've learned in
baking, because I've learned a huge amount, not just by just a lot of it
practicing, but from my team as well.
My team were amazing bakers.
We're all home bakers and we learned from each other and we
learned from our customers as well, because they helped create that.
So I have an amazing team of, community of people that love baking, they share
their tips with me, I learn from them, and we just share our love of baking.
And then I also got a community of baking business owners who start
their businesses loving to bake, but they don't, their zone of genius
really isn't the business side of it.
It's not something they know, and That's not nothing to say that
they're stupid or anything like that.
Far from it.
It's just that it's a whole knowledge and other skill set that you need it.
And it's a different part of your brain to use.
And that's where I can help because I've done both sides of it.
So I understand the baking side, but I also know the business side and that
combining the two without having to make the choice between doing something
you love and creating a business, because often we think we can't do
both, but you absolutely can do both.
And I can help kind of build that bridge that they can create a successful baking
business that's built around them rather than something that they end up having
to do many, many hours a week to really try and make the money they need to have
the business survive, which is often what you see a lot in the industry.
I think that's really powerful.
And I see it a lot in other industries as well, right?
Like healthcare people or, and I've worked a lot with them lately where they go in,
you know, my, They're a physical trainer or a person, a physical therapist, or
they're, you know, some person who's passionate, an author, you're passionate
about what you create and that thing you can do and how you can help people
or what you can create in the world.
But then the business side is entirely, like you said, the opposite
side of your brain a lot of times.
And like everything else, it has its own language and it has its own things.
And it's, to your point, it's extremely hard to find the things that are relevant.
How to price, what to do, what to expect, how to look out for, you
know, what to look out for, how to get started, what to, you know, no
one wants surprises in their business.
No, and also, there's so much, when you start Googling stuff,
there is so much information.
So you suddenly end up with a to do list that is so massive that you
can't possibly do it, which then you end up working 80 hours a week.
just to get through all the things that people tell you you should
be doing rather than actually creating the right business for you.
And that, that is a really hard thing to work out how to do on your own.
Absolutely.
I can't tell you how many times I've had businesses come to me.
And I used to work in a very regulated market like the CBD cannabis space.
And I had so many businesses that they went through marketers
specifically and every marketer told them to do something different.
And so now that by the time they get to me, they have no money left.
Their business hasn't grown.
They're think they're trying, they think they need to do 40 different
things on social media and email and all these things, but they really
just need to do one well to start out.
And they're so burnt out and tired and exhausted and frustrated by
the time they even find me that you're like, okay, how can we help?
Let's, let's figure this out because they, you know, the Google, the Google results
that they got had so many, like you said, like thousands and millions of things
that you should do as a business owner.
And if any of us tried to do all of them, we would be exhausted all the time.
Yes, and I think the other thing is often we think with like, particularly
in baking, we think about the cakes first and actually we need to kind
of think a bit like a CEO, even though there might just be us.
Actually, we need to think like a leader.
We need to think like what's, what's right here for the business
and where are my skills best used?
And sometimes we feel like we can't outsource stuff that's not our thing.
But actually it's kind of going well.
If you outsource, say your social media.
Because you knew that would bring in customers and sales, isn't that a better
use of your money rather than you?
That's your cost.
You're, you're costing your business money by doing that.
So it's, in a way, it's helping people figure out what's right for their
business rather than what they've been told or what they think they should do.
And, or they should do everything themselves and try and make it all
work and not have enough time to do it.
Absolutely.
And that it's okay to ask for help and to find help.
Yeah.
Yes, because, you know, you feel like you have to do it all alone and I,
I, I know I was there for a very long time and I, it took me years before
I felt comfortable asking for help.
So, yeah, no, I love this.
I love our conversation, Naomi, and I love what you've created and I love
what you're doing with Baking Boss.
So can you please let everyone know as we're wrapping up here?
I have two more questions for you.
One, how What, based on all your experience and the pivots you've
had to make and the really tough, hard decisions that you've had to
make as well as the fun ones, right?
What advice that you would give to somebody who might be thinking about,
I'm feeling stuck, I'm unhappy, I don't know if I should do that next thing?
I think the biggest thing for me is, we've always got a choice.
So sometimes it's very easy to put limits on what we're capable
of and listen to what everybody else says, but actually opinion is
really the lowest form of knowledge.
So you've just got to do what you love.
And even if it doesn't go the way you've planned, even if, you know, I
had to close the business, I did it and I'm still here and it's worked out.
So actually.
Sometimes you just got to try things, but as long as you've got a destination
and given that people, if you love what you do and you're passionate, you will,
that will far more carry you than being, having every bit of knowledge it comes
to when you run a business, because actually when you start a business,
we're all starting from ground zero.
No one has really much more knowledge than the other because it's your business.
So you create it the way you want, but just.
Instead of thinking of the reasons you shouldn't do it,
think of the reasons you should.
So go for solutions, not problems.
That's fantastic, fantastic.
And can you tell everyone where they can find you, what you have going on?
Yes.
That way they know where they can connect with you.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm on all the socials.
I am baking boss.
So come find me on Instagram.
I've got a couple of Facebook groups.
So one for business owners and one for baking, but you can find all the
links in my social media channels.
I've got a website where you can go to the blog for business advice and lots
of recipes which is bakingboss.net and I've got a couple of freebies on there.
But I've also got a free challenge and I'm going to be launching my new
Baking a Business course at the end of November so that is going to be
a really great opportunity to get involved and get your business started
and get everything you need to do.
What it is you do best, which is bake and sell lots of amazing
cakes so we can all eat them all.
Absolutely right.
Absolutely.
You'll need more cake in the world.
100 percent agree with that.
I'm like, let them eat cake.
No, that's not right.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Lots of cake.
You can find all of Naomi's links and contact information in the
show notes, so go check that out.
Naomi, thank you so much for being here.
I know there's a raging storm going on where you're at, so I
appreciate you taking time out.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you so much.
All right.
And everyone, we'll talk to you next time.
Thanks.