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This file was generated by Descript 

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Sam: Hello and welcome
to the 10,000 things.

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My name is Sam Ellis.

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I'm Joe Loh.

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Ali: And I'm Ali Catramados

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Joe: today on the show, a
bit of a thought experiment.

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I think of your favorite film.

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And you will find according
to Alexandra, Catramados.

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That you identify.

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With the main character.

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Um, so you can

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Ali: usually ask the
question without that.

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So

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Joe: you just say, think
of your favorite films.

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And then pause.

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So you're not rocking

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Ali: that decision informed.

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Oh, I fucked it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You're making that like, oh, what's
my, like, what's my favorite movie.

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And then going back and
realizing, oh, that's why.

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Relate to those.

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Characters.

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Yeah.

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Sam: In hindsight it's clearer.

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Ali: Yes.

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Yeah, but you're not.

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Your decision is not clouded by it all.

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Like I want to pick a cool movie
because I want to be perceived as cool.

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You're picking a movie just
based on honest answers.

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Honest answers that you love,

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Sam: which VHS did you wear out?

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Yeah.

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Ali: Yeah.

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Sam: Mm.

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Yeah.

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And you know, what did you take off TV?

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Not once, but twice.

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And then

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Ali: given that over and over again, we've

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Joe: out again.

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And then given that this is
a deeply intellectual show.

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Some deep psychological
truths will be revealed.

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Correct.

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When we now discuss
what our favorite films.

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That's right, right.

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Is that the concept for this episode?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Ali: When I, I thought about it and I
started rattling off my favorite movies,

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I, it sent me into a downward spiral.

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Well, you had some.

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The themes.

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It was consistent, obvious.

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Joe: Right.

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If I had to think of my favorite
film, I'd probably say pulp fiction,

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which is an ensemble cast that
doesn't have a main character.

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Sam: Oh, there's plenty to relay.

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There's plenty to plenty of people.

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Straight away.

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I guess, you

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Joe: know, Ali's theories
in the toilet, but.

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To play the game.

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Uh, no one made me think.

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Maybe think of.

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Three things.

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Do you want me to, I was going
to slowly eat them out over

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the episode, but I'll tell ya.

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So Edward Furlong, Terminator two.

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Here we go.

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Not that I identified with him cause
he has so much more of a bad-ass.

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To be him probably.

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Yeah.

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Sam: He was cool.

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Joe: Yeah.

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I mean, he's the one who actually said
hasta LA Vista, baby, To, to a girl

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and he's like 13 and he got money.

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Out of an ATM.

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Easier.

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The baby.

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Yeah.

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Like he was the coolest teenager.

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So cleared ever so cool.

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So with hair and his
eyes and all that shit.

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So definitely.

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Terminated twos.

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Very close to my favorite film ever.

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Yes.

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And I guess Edward fell along
about the same age as me at

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that time, but much cooler.

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Yeah.

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The other one was when I
served, saw the matrix.

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Yup.

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Yup.

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Uh, and I was on acid.

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Yeah.

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The first time in the cinema.

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That would have been a.

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Hell.

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Yeah.

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And obviously Neo.

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Yeah, and I think.

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Sam: Oh, Morpheus.

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I like, I kind of want it to be more,

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Joe: Neo's kind of stayed with me as.

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The chosen one.

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You know, the one that's going
to say through the matrix.

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Well, We've had the Keanu
sons' yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Like.

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See.

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What really what's really going
on and then save the world.

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I.

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That's

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Ali: the saving the world.

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It seems to be the theme like your, the.

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You're the one, then it's going to save
the world with your enormous capabilities.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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And it's

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Joe: caused me a lot of grief as an
adult to approach the world like.

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Ditch that, and then the other one
that, that came to me was less samurai.

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French film.

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Oh yeah.

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And it's like a Hitman.

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Yeah.

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Costello, his name

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Sam: is, um, late nineties.

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Joe: Oh, the

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Sam: sixties.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I think I watched
it in the late nineties.

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Joe: Yeah, the samurai and
he's really cool and detached

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and where's the cool hat.

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And no one really knows what's going
on with him and he's not trying to

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solve the problems of the world.

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Ali: They're all very cool character.

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Yeah.

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Thank you.

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Something just.

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Being your friend and knowing that
that's something you actually value.

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Joe: Cool.

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And Kate very

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Sam: keen and capable.

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Yeah.

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Joe: I would say coolness
is very close to my

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Sam: highest value.

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And I think cinema and
coolness are inextricable.

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Like,

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Joe: yeah, they've always.

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The attachment that I.

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I haven't achieved, you know, John
Connor saving the world status.

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I haven't achieved.

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Neo seeing through the
matrix, being the one status.

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And I'm way too emotional
and open to be super cool.

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Like a Hitman with a hat.

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But the detachment.

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Of the Hitman is the closest
I've come to in real life.

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Is that I can be quite
detached from my own life.

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And not in a healthy way.

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No, but.

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You know, it's funny doing this podcast.

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I think something my therapist
said to me a couple of days is.

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Yeah, it seems like you're
okay being heard, but you

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really don't want to be seen.

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Oh, like strongly perceived.

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Um, so this guy, Jeff Costello is walking
around in this film and he, you see him

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as the coolest looking guy ever, but he's
also able to fade into the background.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Sam: What about you, Sam?

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Oh, no.

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That's really interesting.

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I'm going to psychoanalyze the, just
for a moment longer before I throw

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in anything but that, so the first
movie you liked when you were 12.

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You know, Eddie and it, you know, you
and Eddie, both sort of similar age.

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And then Neo when you're like 18, 19.

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Joe: Yeah.

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Sam: Right.

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And then this other guy, what age?

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Joe: Uh, Jessica Stella or whatever,
mid twenties, but that's the one

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I've gone back to the interesting.

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I don't go back anymore and watch
Terminator two or the matrix.

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No, but I'll go back and watch
lists MRI and be like, wow,

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this is a fucking cool film.

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And I've got, you know, other samurai.

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Poster up on my wall and.

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Sam: I think I can almost picture it.

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Yeah.

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So I think all of that makes a lot of
sense and you can see the evolving needs.

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You know, John is.

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Young.

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And cool.

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And that's the aspirational
part he's capable.

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That's also aspirational and he's, but
here's where the relate here's where the.

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You would have related to him because.

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Because there's problems with these
parents, he's there and he's in

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foster care and he's vulnerable.

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He's very vulnerable, even
though he is very capable.

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He's also very vulnerable.

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He's in a very dangerous situation.

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So maybe there's a bit to
relate to as well as aspire to.

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You know, cause there are some
people who say the matrix is.

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Yeah, well, some people take
it quite literally and have

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gone down the simulation.

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With it.

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Yeah.

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And

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Ali: then like, yeah.

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Obsession with reality.

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Yes.

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And where you sort of drifted, I suppose,
where your mind has gone during the post.

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Yeah.

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Alternate sort of.

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Psychosis is.

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Joe: Psychosis is a lot more like

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Sam: the Truman show.

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Yeah.

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Uh, which was a movie that
came out around the same time.

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Had the same impact.

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Joe: The one that's that's.

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Probably my favorite
film in terms of film.

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I want to watch tonight with
some mates is the big Lebowski.

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Sure.

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Yes.

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And Jeff Lebowski is actually
the character I'm by far

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the most like, of course of.

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Eddie film character, probably you are

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Sam: a lot like the dude.

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If

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Joe: I only went back to
smoking weed, I'd pretty much.

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I mean,

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Sam: I like bowling, whereas
I'm more, whereas I'm more like

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Donnie or Walter, I'm afraid.

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Yeah.

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Joe: No, not really.

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You're not hapless, like, like Dani.

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Uh, no, no, I'm probably.

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Continue with your cycle analysis.

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It's really taken me
back to film theory, 2002

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Sam: man with the, well, I could
never understand the obsession in

00:07:26.870 --> 00:07:29.780
film theory because I did a bit of
it in English and cultural studies.

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And I couldn't understand why they
kept banging on about psychoanalysis.

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And then all these years later,
I'm like, oh no, I get it now.

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so of all the, so the,
basically the theory.

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There's an important little
piece of academic theory.

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Always get it out the way real quick
that all art should be psychoanalyzed.

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Right.

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But.

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That there's something
about film that is the most.

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Rich symbolically and it's
got, it's got the most.

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Kind of projection and fantasy and, It's
richly, richly psychoanalytical in a

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way that novels, which were seen as the
pinnacle of psychoanalytic technology at

00:08:05.351 --> 00:08:07.001
one time, you know, the novel, cause it.

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You know, first person consciousness
and really just exploring.

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It was the state of the art of
exploring consciousness at one time.

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Right.

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Then cinema comes along and
it's like, oh no, no, no.

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You're going to see, you're going to see.

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The foyer, the voice.

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So there's so much going on.

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It's not just the Voya aspect,
although that's incredibly important.

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It's.

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The also the simultaneous, the
placing the projecting of the self

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into which is separate to the voice.

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That's.

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And as you're

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Joe: watching.

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Your self.

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Disappears.

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Yes.

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And you merge with the screen
ideally, and you forget that

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you're surrounded by people.

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Like all of that.

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So that's, I mean, I bang on about
the self being an illusion, but

00:08:51.249 --> 00:08:54.579
the best way to probably experience
that in the world still is to.

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Being grossed in a film.

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Sam: Yes.

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One of the great attractions
of truly excellent cinema and I

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include like an action movie in
this or the most subtly bittersweet.

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drama.

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They can both achieve the same
thing of Co creating complete

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identification with what's happening
and the people and you are.

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Uh, raised.

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Uh, effectively.

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That's right.

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Yeah.

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And you experienced that
one sense of oneness.

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Yeah, with all other humans,
which is a very cool thing for.

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The only thing that's

00:09:23.436 --> 00:09:26.286
Joe: not cool about that it's like
is that you have to come back.

00:09:26.676 --> 00:09:27.516
Oh, it's brutal.

00:09:28.956 --> 00:09:32.046
You know, That also, I haven't
been able to enter that state.

00:09:32.676 --> 00:09:33.306
No movies.

00:09:33.396 --> 00:09:34.776
These aren't doing it for you before.

00:09:34.806 --> 00:09:35.286
COVID.

00:09:36.396 --> 00:09:37.956
I haven't dropped away.

00:09:37.956 --> 00:09:39.186
The self hasn't dropped away.

00:09:39.246 --> 00:09:41.976
It drops away in meditation, but it
doesn't drop away in a cinema anymore.

00:09:42.036 --> 00:09:43.746
When's the last one that, oh, man.

00:09:44.226 --> 00:09:46.206
Ah, maybe nomad land actually.

00:09:46.236 --> 00:09:48.096
In the cinema, highly praised.

00:09:48.096 --> 00:09:48.456
Sam: Yeah.

00:09:48.546 --> 00:09:49.626
Anyway, back to the.

00:09:50.046 --> 00:09:51.486
The psychoanalysis of you.

00:09:51.546 --> 00:09:53.646
So we had to get the academic footnote out

00:09:53.646 --> 00:09:54.246
Joe: the way.

00:09:54.324 --> 00:09:57.744
uh, bear in mind that obviously
listeners to this have never met me.

00:09:57.804 --> 00:09:59.004
And I have no idea who I am.

00:09:59.004 --> 00:10:00.954
So you're going to speak
very clear with any.

00:10:01.314 --> 00:10:02.694
Biographical details.

00:10:02.964 --> 00:10:03.324
Okay.

00:10:03.534 --> 00:10:05.934
It's not like we just make this
show and then just our friends.

00:10:05.934 --> 00:10:06.324
Listen.

00:10:06.384 --> 00:10:06.594
Sam: Yeah.

00:10:06.594 --> 00:10:06.984
That's right.

00:10:06.984 --> 00:10:10.494
Well, just to be clear right
now, Joe is wearing a Ray ban

00:10:10.494 --> 00:10:12.654
wayfarers and a matching tracksuits.

00:10:12.714 --> 00:10:14.424
So it's already pretty cinematic.

00:10:14.574 --> 00:10:16.734
And he's holding, he's
holding a microphone.

00:10:16.884 --> 00:10:19.674
I mean, You can see how tightly.

00:10:19.760 --> 00:10:21.200
His life has been bonded.

00:10:21.470 --> 00:10:22.760
Boundary with film.

00:10:22.910 --> 00:10:25.400
And now w why don't you
discovered spirituality though?

00:10:25.400 --> 00:10:26.930
See, this is where I
was getting back to Neo.

00:10:27.057 --> 00:10:29.157
There's the literalist
rating of the matrix, right?

00:10:29.217 --> 00:10:31.767
The simulation bros,
because they usually are.

00:10:31.858 --> 00:10:34.498
and then you've got the
kind of political reading.

00:10:34.908 --> 00:10:40.008
I think the, probably the most
interesting area to get into with.

00:10:40.458 --> 00:10:42.978
Sort of the, the readings of
the matrix, the ones that I

00:10:43.098 --> 00:10:44.238
sort of got to at the end of it.

00:10:44.370 --> 00:10:45.600
The psychoanalytic one.

00:10:46.020 --> 00:10:50.250
And the psychosis hallucination
and so on mental health.

00:10:50.910 --> 00:10:51.270
Type.

00:10:51.390 --> 00:10:53.010
It's an exploration of consciousness.

00:10:53.153 --> 00:10:57.533
And also of, uh, you know, that
phenomenology and meditation

00:10:57.533 --> 00:10:58.433
and all that kind of stuff.

00:10:58.463 --> 00:10:59.873
And that seeing through.

00:10:59.977 --> 00:11:03.247
We're seeing three reality or seeing
reality in a different way and like, okay,

00:11:03.277 --> 00:11:07.627
we're not living in a simulation, but
we're experiencing it as a simulation.

00:11:07.627 --> 00:11:09.517
And then, you know, meditation is.

00:11:09.654 --> 00:11:12.594
You know, as Joe can attest, he's
gone further with it than me.

00:11:12.696 --> 00:11:14.436
That you've penetrated the.

00:11:14.886 --> 00:11:19.146
The Curt, like the veil you've
gotten you've you've drawn the veil.

00:11:19.506 --> 00:11:20.106
Aside.

00:11:20.436 --> 00:11:21.096
On more than one.

00:11:22.026 --> 00:11:22.476
Through

00:11:22.476 --> 00:11:25.536
Joe: is a term commonly used
in the meditations that I do.

00:11:26.136 --> 00:11:29.736
Seeing through, which is that's what the
whole gut, the whole name of the game in

00:11:29.736 --> 00:11:31.566
the matrix is to see through the matrix.

00:11:31.596 --> 00:11:31.716
Yeah.

00:11:31.746 --> 00:11:32.046
Yeah.

00:11:32.256 --> 00:11:32.616
Right.

00:11:32.676 --> 00:11:32.736
And.

00:11:33.002 --> 00:11:36.812
I would say that in my actual life,
that's how I see the separate self.

00:11:37.232 --> 00:11:40.442
As this, this persistent illusion,
a projection, a projection.

00:11:40.532 --> 00:11:43.862
Just keeps re reappearing and
reappearing and reappearing, but

00:11:43.862 --> 00:11:45.572
it's, it's, it's actually not real.

00:11:45.572 --> 00:11:49.380
So I need to try and see through it,
but it's methodical process to try to

00:11:49.380 --> 00:11:53.100
see through it again and again, and
eventually from what I'm told you.

00:11:53.250 --> 00:11:54.150
You know, you do see through it.

00:11:54.180 --> 00:11:55.440
And also the Buddhist.

00:11:55.555 --> 00:11:56.815
If you want to talk about the matrix.

00:11:57.175 --> 00:11:59.245
I heard someone who's studied.

00:11:59.365 --> 00:12:00.535
Embolism say.

00:12:00.663 --> 00:12:03.033
that once you understand impermanence Hmm.

00:12:03.573 --> 00:12:05.763
And permanent is so thorough going.

00:12:05.883 --> 00:12:06.963
It's so it's a total.

00:12:07.383 --> 00:12:09.003
Theory, even in permanence.

00:12:09.213 --> 00:12:09.873
This isn't real.

00:12:09.933 --> 00:12:10.413
Yes.

00:12:10.623 --> 00:12:13.803
Even in this there's so
little permanence that yeah.

00:12:14.013 --> 00:12:16.203
Even in permanent doesn't capture it.

00:12:16.263 --> 00:12:16.443
Yeah.

00:12:16.443 --> 00:12:17.733
You can go really far with it.

00:12:17.883 --> 00:12:21.303
That's and that's the concrete,
that's two and a half thousand

00:12:21.303 --> 00:12:22.833
years to put us thought.

00:12:22.951 --> 00:12:25.861
Talking about impermanence
and you know, so that's not

00:12:25.861 --> 00:12:27.331
saying we live in a simulation.

00:12:28.381 --> 00:12:32.641
But it's saying that what we
take to be fixed real solid.

00:12:33.118 --> 00:12:34.558
It's just not that.

00:12:35.098 --> 00:12:35.998
Sam: Yeah, that's right.

00:12:36.268 --> 00:12:38.428
And I think cinema is
actually really good.

00:12:39.088 --> 00:12:44.248
At both creating these surface
realities and dispelling them and

00:12:44.248 --> 00:12:45.868
penetrating them at the same time.

00:12:46.348 --> 00:12:50.998
Joe: Phenomenological experience
at Northlands in 1999.

00:12:51.058 --> 00:12:51.328
Yeah.

00:12:51.418 --> 00:12:53.518
On my own on half a tab of acid.

00:12:53.728 --> 00:12:54.988
Watching the fucking matrix.

00:12:55.048 --> 00:12:55.498
Hard hitting.

00:12:55.618 --> 00:12:57.298
Without even knowing
much about it and that.

00:12:57.748 --> 00:12:59.338
But hell by the time I got out of there.

00:13:01.918 --> 00:13:02.308
Yeah.

00:13:02.582 --> 00:13:03.572
I felt like that seems

00:13:03.572 --> 00:13:04.352
Sam: point break.

00:13:04.472 --> 00:13:05.012
Joe: Yeah.

00:13:05.402 --> 00:13:07.772
Maybe it's coming back
to me now that feeling.

00:13:08.390 --> 00:13:09.890
Being a savior or whatever.

00:13:09.920 --> 00:13:10.130
Yeah.

00:13:10.220 --> 00:13:10.730
Oh, yeah.

00:13:10.820 --> 00:13:11.060
Yeah.

00:13:11.150 --> 00:13:15.410
You know, like, so as much as I said,
your theory was in the toilet, Allie,

00:13:15.410 --> 00:13:17.120
and we'll have to get onto you too guys.

00:13:17.870 --> 00:13:18.470
Sam: Endorsing it.

00:13:18.680 --> 00:13:18.920
Yeah.

00:13:19.103 --> 00:13:20.543
Joe: Well, it's deeply rich.

00:13:20.663 --> 00:13:20.903
It's.

00:13:21.323 --> 00:13:22.973
Psychologically, very rich.

00:13:23.003 --> 00:13:28.163
Actually, if I think back to how I
felt walking out of the matrix and

00:13:28.223 --> 00:13:33.113
how I've approached my life and, and
the problem I have with the news is

00:13:33.113 --> 00:13:37.403
that I can't read the news without
imagining myself in some heroic role.

00:13:37.463 --> 00:13:38.033
Yes.

00:13:38.093 --> 00:13:38.393
Yeah.

00:13:38.393 --> 00:13:40.523
It's coming between two warring sides.

00:13:40.763 --> 00:13:41.153
The illusion

00:13:41.183 --> 00:13:42.653
Sam: of the separate self right there.

00:13:42.743 --> 00:13:43.223
Yeah.

00:13:43.283 --> 00:13:43.643
Joe: Right.

00:13:43.643 --> 00:13:45.473
So I can't really engage with the news.

00:13:45.533 --> 00:13:45.893
Why?

00:13:45.893 --> 00:13:47.243
Because of my grandiosity.

00:13:47.513 --> 00:13:49.738
Because I don't take myself to be.

00:13:50.278 --> 00:13:52.858
A citizen of Australia
living in Melbourne.

00:13:52.918 --> 00:13:56.248
I take myself to be someone who
just might be about to get a phone

00:13:56.248 --> 00:13:57.688
call from the white house, you know?

00:13:58.018 --> 00:13:59.458
Oh, well, How do we got to sort this out?

00:13:59.728 --> 00:14:02.608
Well, actually, Thinking about this a lot.

00:14:03.028 --> 00:14:03.598
That's right.

00:14:03.598 --> 00:14:03.988
That's right.

00:14:04.078 --> 00:14:06.418
And about the middle east is so yeah.

00:14:06.478 --> 00:14:07.138
I'm glad you guys

00:14:07.138 --> 00:14:07.528
Sam: called.

00:14:07.618 --> 00:14:07.858
Joe: Yeah.

00:14:07.948 --> 00:14:09.058
Yeah, that's right.

00:14:09.465 --> 00:14:12.640
that's another illusion that
I'm working on, man, but this

00:14:12.640 --> 00:14:13.720
is an illusion that cinema

00:14:13.750 --> 00:14:14.560
Sam: implants.

00:14:14.950 --> 00:14:15.460
In all of us.

00:14:15.520 --> 00:14:16.090
The hero.

00:14:16.180 --> 00:14:16.540
Yeah.

00:14:16.750 --> 00:14:16.930
The

00:14:16.930 --> 00:14:17.740
Joe: hero's journey.

00:14:18.070 --> 00:14:21.130
I know it's it worked
until it did it, you know?

00:14:21.310 --> 00:14:21.610
Yes.

00:14:21.940 --> 00:14:24.610
So now I just need to abandon that.

00:14:25.330 --> 00:14:26.290
Bogging the software.

00:14:26.350 --> 00:14:26.860
Kind of thing.

00:14:27.340 --> 00:14:27.850
You know,

00:14:27.970 --> 00:14:29.140
Sam: uh, so.

00:14:29.860 --> 00:14:31.720
What did you ever get into realist cinema?

00:14:31.780 --> 00:14:34.510
Like, uh, you know, social
realists, that kind of stuff?

00:14:34.540 --> 00:14:35.890
Or were you more about the.

00:14:36.550 --> 00:14:37.180
Fantastic.

00:14:38.680 --> 00:14:39.010
Joe: Yeah.

00:14:39.190 --> 00:14:39.430
Yeah.

00:14:39.490 --> 00:14:40.240
I love all that shit.

00:14:40.300 --> 00:14:40.660
Yeah.

00:14:40.900 --> 00:14:42.220
I've been, I loved all that shit.

00:14:42.220 --> 00:14:45.310
I've lost my relationship with
cinema in the last five years.

00:14:45.310 --> 00:14:46.660
Completely like com.

00:14:47.410 --> 00:14:47.710
It feels

00:14:47.740 --> 00:14:49.510
Sam: like it's a done deal for now.

00:14:49.630 --> 00:14:49.960
Joe: Not.

00:14:50.170 --> 00:14:50.710
Yeah.

00:14:50.890 --> 00:14:51.970
I might come back, man.

00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:53.260
Why come back, you.

00:14:53.290 --> 00:14:57.160
You know, 20 years, but I, whatever,
I'm just letting it go for now.

00:14:57.400 --> 00:14:59.380
Sam: That's the, and that's
the Buddhist way, like, yeah,

00:14:59.410 --> 00:15:00.700
don't be clinging just, yeah.

00:15:01.180 --> 00:15:01.990
Yeah, it ain't, it ain't.

00:15:02.290 --> 00:15:06.190
Joe: If I get, I mean, I don't have enough
time to, to do the meditation practices.

00:15:06.220 --> 00:15:07.420
I've got them backing up.

00:15:07.780 --> 00:15:11.650
Um, on my app that I want to
sit and spend hours actually

00:15:11.800 --> 00:15:13.270
going through these practices.

00:15:13.420 --> 00:15:14.290
Talk about the real stuff.

00:15:15.010 --> 00:15:15.460
Yeah, I know.

00:15:15.520 --> 00:15:18.790
I don't let myself get distracted
by my phone or whatever, but.

00:15:18.860 --> 00:15:20.270
Yeah, kind of the real cinema.

00:15:20.540 --> 00:15:21.620
Kind of sobbing.

00:15:22.670 --> 00:15:24.590
I'm not saying I'm
spiritually enlightened.

00:15:25.070 --> 00:15:26.030
Or even.

00:15:26.390 --> 00:15:29.870
I can't even prove a spiritual
experience, but something happened where.

00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:33.290
Meditation started to be this.

00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:35.000
It's not a form of entertainment, but.

00:15:35.330 --> 00:15:37.130
Became incredibly nourishing.

00:15:37.160 --> 00:15:37.580
Yes.

00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:41.870
But cinema, I became I'd watch it and
think I couldn't suspend disbelief.

00:15:41.900 --> 00:15:41.990
This.

00:15:42.170 --> 00:15:42.290
An

00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.360
Sam: actor I've been struggling
with this for a long time.

00:15:44.420 --> 00:15:45.290
Joe: Came into reality.

00:15:45.500 --> 00:15:46.010
Too much.

00:15:46.040 --> 00:15:46.250
Yeah.

00:15:46.580 --> 00:15:50.150
Like somehow, like, I meditated
my way into a reality where

00:15:50.150 --> 00:15:51.980
I can't just pretend anymore.

00:15:52.010 --> 00:15:52.310
Yeah.

00:15:52.550 --> 00:15:54.170
And I'm like, oh, why is this so violent?

00:15:54.170 --> 00:15:56.150
I can't watch a fictional violence.

00:15:57.380 --> 00:15:57.860
I don't lie.

00:15:58.010 --> 00:15:58.640
Obviously.

00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:00.610
Uh, terminated to the
whole world gets blown up.

00:16:00.640 --> 00:16:00.790
Yeah.

00:16:00.940 --> 00:16:01.480
Fiction.

00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:05.140
It's a series of grizzly
torture and murder and yeah.

00:16:05.530 --> 00:16:06.790
When I was a teenager, I loved.

00:16:06.820 --> 00:16:07.810
Very nihilistic.

00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:09.250
Sam: Very nihilistic text.

00:16:09.280 --> 00:16:09.580
Joe: Yeah.

00:16:09.610 --> 00:16:10.030
Yeah, yeah.

00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:11.410
So I've just.

00:16:11.501 --> 00:16:14.351
I may be getting older and
more sentimental or whatever.

00:16:14.411 --> 00:16:15.791
I just don't want to watch.

00:16:16.721 --> 00:16:17.261
I do

00:16:17.261 --> 00:16:18.461
Sam: not want to either.

00:16:19.031 --> 00:16:20.771
Joe: Whereas in the twenties, it was a.

00:16:20.868 --> 00:16:21.438
Sam: It was fun.

00:16:21.798 --> 00:16:22.458
Joe: It was cool.

00:16:22.458 --> 00:16:23.538
It was coolest fucking thing.

00:16:23.808 --> 00:16:24.108
Did you see

00:16:24.108 --> 00:16:26.118
Sam: the way they blew that
guy's head off or the best?

00:16:26.178 --> 00:16:26.568
Joe: Yeah.

00:16:27.318 --> 00:16:27.648
Yeah.

00:16:27.708 --> 00:16:28.008
Yeah.

00:16:28.068 --> 00:16:28.218
Like.

00:16:28.368 --> 00:16:30.918
I think it was Terentino's
he said like, ladder.

00:16:31.008 --> 00:16:34.398
The language of violence is the
language of American cinema.

00:16:34.638 --> 00:16:35.268
He's not wrong.

00:16:35.808 --> 00:16:36.558
That's what we

00:16:36.558 --> 00:16:36.888
Sam: do.

00:16:37.068 --> 00:16:37.218
Yeah.

00:16:37.278 --> 00:16:41.268
Jen, Janet Jackson can have a
titty out on the Superbowl halftime

00:16:41.268 --> 00:16:42.318
show and it brings the world.

00:16:42.948 --> 00:16:43.758
Well to an end.

00:16:43.818 --> 00:16:49.188
Yeah, but like, yeah, let's just like
in, at Tara that same Tarantino film,

00:16:49.218 --> 00:16:51.588
you know, where they accidentally
shoot Marvin in the backseat.

00:16:51.648 --> 00:16:52.428
That actually really did.

00:16:52.968 --> 00:16:55.518
Shock me made me feel awful, but for days.

00:16:55.608 --> 00:16:56.598
Oh, I just thought it was cool.

00:16:56.598 --> 00:16:58.638
It was fuck, but yeah, that's right.

00:16:58.848 --> 00:17:00.228
So then none of that's a big deal.

00:17:00.258 --> 00:17:00.348
I

00:17:00.348 --> 00:17:03.078
Joe: think it's a lack of
mortality at 80 cents of mortality.

00:17:03.108 --> 00:17:03.858
When you're 21.

00:17:06.078 --> 00:17:06.948
part fiction came out.

00:17:07.248 --> 00:17:09.588
Yeah, but like you can see
someone's head, we blow it off.

00:17:09.828 --> 00:17:10.668
Oh, that's funny.

00:17:11.478 --> 00:17:12.618
But now like, fuck it.

00:17:12.618 --> 00:17:13.578
I'm going to die too.

00:17:13.578 --> 00:17:13.818
And that.

00:17:15.588 --> 00:17:16.128
Ali: Too real.

00:17:16.368 --> 00:17:16.998
But also like

00:17:17.508 --> 00:17:18.018
Joe: respectful

00:17:18.018 --> 00:17:18.438
Sam: life.

00:17:18.708 --> 00:17:18.828
Yeah.

00:17:18.858 --> 00:17:22.810
Ali: Potentially the timeline of when you
started to switch off from these things.

00:17:22.810 --> 00:17:27.040
And like you said, during the pandemic,
that was actually a very real threat to

00:17:27.280 --> 00:17:27.790
Sam: cinema.

00:17:28.270 --> 00:17:29.770
Ali: Well, yeah, but also to our existing.

00:17:29.950 --> 00:17:30.760
And mortality.

00:17:30.760 --> 00:17:32.590
So perhaps it's yeah.

00:17:32.620 --> 00:17:36.400
The things you've now chosen to engage
with and not engage with has also

00:17:36.430 --> 00:17:38.740
shifted because your perception of yeah.

00:17:38.770 --> 00:17:40.000
Mortality's changed.

00:17:40.270 --> 00:17:40.510
Joe: Yeah.

00:17:40.510 --> 00:17:41.080
I think that's right.

00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:45.370
I think there was, there was a moment
when there was a wave of COVID hitting

00:17:45.370 --> 00:17:49.300
Melbourne and, uh, The bodies were
stacking up in Italy, as you said, and.

00:17:49.570 --> 00:17:49.870
Sure.

00:17:50.320 --> 00:17:54.760
I read something about, I dunno, it
was like a healthy guy in his thirties,

00:17:54.790 --> 00:17:56.650
in Melbourne getting COVID and dying.

00:17:56.710 --> 00:17:56.860
Yeah.

00:17:57.430 --> 00:17:57.730
And, uh,

00:17:58.035 --> 00:18:00.495
in my, uh, 40 group chat.

00:18:00.975 --> 00:18:04.245
It was like, for some reason
that turned into like a COVID

00:18:04.365 --> 00:18:05.595
panic fucking group chat.

00:18:05.595 --> 00:18:07.035
And I was like, yeah, I can imagine.

00:18:07.425 --> 00:18:09.285
Say something about that.

00:18:09.345 --> 00:18:12.945
And he quoted, I think it
was Albert Chino from heat.

00:18:13.305 --> 00:18:13.845
Right back.

00:18:13.995 --> 00:18:14.325
He's like

00:18:14.715 --> 00:18:16.605
Sam: you can die walking
a little, little doggy.

00:18:16.965 --> 00:18:18.615
Yeah, that's right.

00:18:18.645 --> 00:18:19.215
That's right.

00:18:19.905 --> 00:18:20.085
Yeah.

00:18:20.115 --> 00:18:20.475
Yeah.

00:18:20.745 --> 00:18:21.735
Joe: Y fuck.

00:18:21.795 --> 00:18:25.245
I'm in my forties that I'd
never really thought about how I

00:18:25.245 --> 00:18:26.085
Sam: could just die.

00:18:26.115 --> 00:18:28.455
You can die on the Eastern freeway
on your way to the Westfield.

00:18:29.175 --> 00:18:29.565
Joe: That's it.

00:18:29.745 --> 00:18:33.825
And I was like, dude, so I've got,
you know, between now when I die, I've

00:18:33.825 --> 00:18:35.775
got a fuck ton of work to do around.

00:18:36.105 --> 00:18:39.345
It's 10 sensing and
experiencing mine mortality.

00:18:40.155 --> 00:18:44.003
Ironically Jeff Costello from,
uh, Le samurai at the end,

00:18:44.003 --> 00:18:45.413
he commits suicide by cop.

00:18:45.623 --> 00:18:48.203
Sam: Well, I was going to say, cause
he's a death dealer, this character.

00:18:48.653 --> 00:18:49.343
And he walks

00:18:49.343 --> 00:18:50.573
Joe: into his own death.

00:18:50.663 --> 00:18:51.923
And it just lets it happen.

00:18:52.493 --> 00:18:54.533
And it's mysterious to this day.

00:18:55.313 --> 00:18:57.623
You know why he does that in that film?

00:18:57.773 --> 00:18:58.193
You know?

00:18:58.283 --> 00:19:00.233
Sam: Well, I think one can speculate.

00:19:00.233 --> 00:19:03.563
I think it's got to do
with an acknowledgement.

00:19:04.043 --> 00:19:05.393
That his life is.

00:19:05.783 --> 00:19:06.713
Joe: It hadn't seen the film.

00:19:06.743 --> 00:19:08.633
Sam: No, I think I did see
it in the late nineties.

00:19:08.693 --> 00:19:08.933
I think.

00:19:09.593 --> 00:19:09.623
I

00:19:10.733 --> 00:19:13.403
Joe: can say I've had a
theory on literally anything.

00:19:15.173 --> 00:19:15.323
No,

00:19:15.323 --> 00:19:15.533
Sam: no.

00:19:15.803 --> 00:19:17.753
I think I saw this film because it was.

00:19:18.113 --> 00:19:20.843
Thinking of a Hitman maybe.

00:19:21.923 --> 00:19:23.243
Professional professional.

00:19:23.243 --> 00:19:23.933
Sorry, John.

00:19:24.443 --> 00:19:24.743
Joe: Yes.

00:19:24.833 --> 00:19:26.363
Now the French film about a Hitman.

00:19:26.363 --> 00:19:26.573
Yes.

00:19:26.603 --> 00:19:27.053
Sam: Yes.

00:19:27.203 --> 00:19:27.503
And.

00:19:28.013 --> 00:19:28.613
Joe: Good film too.

00:19:28.673 --> 00:19:28.973
And her

00:19:28.973 --> 00:19:32.933
Sam: whole family has been killed
and she says, yeah, So John Reno is.

00:19:33.623 --> 00:19:34.763
She's 12 or whatever.

00:19:35.363 --> 00:19:37.523
Is it always like this,
or just when you're a kid.

00:19:38.003 --> 00:19:40.043
And for the first time in the
film, he doesn't know what to

00:19:40.043 --> 00:19:41.903
do and he's just standing there.

00:19:41.903 --> 00:19:42.563
And then he says,

00:19:42.763 --> 00:19:44.773
No, always like this in

00:19:44.773 --> 00:19:44.833
Joe: the

00:19:44.833 --> 00:19:45.433
Sam: professional.

00:19:45.463 --> 00:19:45.703
Yeah.

00:19:45.823 --> 00:19:46.273
Yeah.

00:19:46.453 --> 00:19:48.703
And then they go on to have
an inappropriate relationship.

00:19:49.603 --> 00:19:53.383
Yeah, but so warning, if you
watch that, so just watch out

00:19:53.383 --> 00:19:55.063
for that, but there are some.

00:19:55.573 --> 00:19:58.303
There were some, I didn't actually
pick up on that whole side of the

00:19:58.303 --> 00:20:02.383
film to me, it was about this guy
who's capable of killing people.

00:20:02.743 --> 00:20:03.973
And now has two.

00:20:04.057 --> 00:20:07.957
Deal with the fact that he
there's this human, that really

00:20:08.437 --> 00:20:11.857
is a witness to something and
should just be gotten rid of.

00:20:11.887 --> 00:20:13.387
But yeah, he can't do that.

00:20:13.687 --> 00:20:17.346
So, you know, it's the beginning of
his hero's journey of, embracing life

00:20:17.706 --> 00:20:20.076
and, What is it like to be a Hitman?

00:20:20.076 --> 00:20:21.786
Like that's not really the question.

00:20:21.786 --> 00:20:23.256
The question that's asking is.

00:20:23.294 --> 00:20:24.978
What does life mean?

00:20:25.068 --> 00:20:28.728
to anyone, but if you were capable of
killing somebody and if that's how you.

00:20:29.418 --> 00:20:30.888
Made your own living.

00:20:31.728 --> 00:20:32.718
What does that mean?

00:20:32.789 --> 00:20:35.009
so it's, you know, it is about
a Hitman, but it's, it's,

00:20:35.009 --> 00:20:35.969
it's kind of about this idea.

00:20:35.999 --> 00:20:41.440
Idea of like What problems are ever solved
by going around whacking people and at

00:20:41.530 --> 00:20:43.660
the real problems of life consist in.

00:20:43.843 --> 00:20:46.303
Life itself rather than ending like.

00:20:46.513 --> 00:20:48.103
That life presents problems.

00:20:48.433 --> 00:20:48.943
And that.

00:20:48.967 --> 00:20:51.907
Have you finished your
analysis of many of the matrix.

00:20:52.477 --> 00:20:53.107
Yeah, pretty much.

00:20:54.157 --> 00:20:58.267
Well, did I think you did ha I think he
did have you your Neo moment in the end.

00:20:58.687 --> 00:21:02.917
Yeah, and, and that you can bring
a message back for the world.

00:21:02.937 --> 00:21:07.017
Joe: The only time I've done
anything heroic that I can think of.

00:21:07.467 --> 00:21:10.077
Is where my eldest daughter
got out of the shower.

00:21:10.437 --> 00:21:11.697
There was no bathmat.

00:21:11.847 --> 00:21:12.057
Yeah.

00:21:12.327 --> 00:21:13.107
Flipped over.

00:21:13.437 --> 00:21:14.547
She smashed her head.

00:21:14.577 --> 00:21:14.937
Yeah.

00:21:15.417 --> 00:21:17.847
An hour later, she was
not making any sense.

00:21:17.847 --> 00:21:18.627
Delirious.

00:21:18.867 --> 00:21:20.127
Rushed her to the hospital.

00:21:20.263 --> 00:21:23.143
And the doctors were talking about
possible bleeding on the brain.

00:21:23.173 --> 00:21:24.133
They didn't know what was going on.

00:21:24.163 --> 00:21:25.393
She didn't know who I was.

00:21:25.483 --> 00:21:28.423
And my heroic act was
to sit there with her.

00:21:28.783 --> 00:21:29.653
Be calm.

00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:31.679
And wait for something to happen.

00:21:32.219 --> 00:21:34.349
Over submerged threw up all over me.

00:21:34.409 --> 00:21:36.719
And then she snapped out and
said, oh dad, where am I?

00:21:37.019 --> 00:21:37.169
Yeah.

00:21:37.379 --> 00:21:40.619
That's the closest I've ever come to
be a hero was rushing my daughter to

00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:42.779
the hospital and keeping it together.

00:21:43.169 --> 00:21:46.379
Well, when the doctors were not really
keeping together, they didn't really

00:21:46.379 --> 00:21:47.549
know what was going on with her.

00:21:48.059 --> 00:21:49.169
Oh, that's terrifying.

00:21:49.229 --> 00:21:52.049
That's real, absolutely
terrifying, but real heroism.

00:21:52.139 --> 00:21:52.559
Yeah.

00:21:52.709 --> 00:21:54.959
And afterwards the nurses
said why he did a great job.

00:21:54.959 --> 00:21:55.859
He stayed really calm.

00:21:55.979 --> 00:21:56.219
Yeah.

00:21:56.309 --> 00:21:59.159
And for someone who was told at
19, then I'm a bit defective.

00:21:59.189 --> 00:22:01.679
I've got a mental illness
to do something very adult.

00:22:02.219 --> 00:22:03.149
Vaguely heroic.

00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:07.426
and then, you know, there was protests
and there was propaganda films and

00:22:07.456 --> 00:22:08.836
it was all this shit, but actual.

00:22:09.106 --> 00:22:10.756
Heroism just getting my.

00:22:10.814 --> 00:22:12.254
Daughter to the hospital on time.

00:22:12.314 --> 00:22:13.184
Yeah, big time.

00:22:13.214 --> 00:22:15.464
So that's, it's actually.

00:22:16.034 --> 00:22:18.434
Yeah, no, one's going to come
and ask me to save the world.

00:22:18.464 --> 00:22:19.634
No, that detachment

00:22:19.634 --> 00:22:22.604
Sam: that you, that detachment you
sometimes are good at, well, it can be

00:22:22.604 --> 00:22:24.254
handy in those circumstances, right?

00:22:24.284 --> 00:22:25.544
And, and, and also.

00:22:26.324 --> 00:22:26.924
Can I say that.

00:22:27.224 --> 00:22:31.514
So many parents in that situation, make
it about them without realizing it.

00:22:31.754 --> 00:22:32.534
And so well done.

00:22:32.654 --> 00:22:33.584
Like the nurses,

00:22:33.614 --> 00:22:35.774
Joe: man, nothing like a pat
on the back from a fucking.

00:22:36.104 --> 00:22:37.064
They see it all and

00:22:38.474 --> 00:22:38.924
Ali: everything.

00:22:39.164 --> 00:22:40.874
Sam: And they say a lot of parents who.

00:22:41.504 --> 00:22:43.064
They have to help as much as yeah.

00:22:43.154 --> 00:22:44.294
They basically said that.

00:22:44.384 --> 00:22:44.954
Yeah.

00:22:45.194 --> 00:22:45.614
Joe: Yeah.

00:22:45.974 --> 00:22:47.354
Anyway, what's your favorite film, Sam?

00:22:47.486 --> 00:22:48.626
Sam: So the thin red line.

00:22:49.256 --> 00:22:50.306
Joe: Oh, one of my favorites.

00:22:50.486 --> 00:22:54.369
Sam: Yeah, And obviously Jim Caviezel is a
bit of a nutcase these days, but, I think

00:22:54.369 --> 00:22:57.909
he turned in a really good performance
and shout out to my mate, Eric, who

00:22:57.909 --> 00:22:59.649
is one of the extras in that film.

00:22:59.649 --> 00:22:59.739
He.

00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:02.739
P a P is in several scenes
is just one of many.

00:23:02.800 --> 00:23:04.022
Soldiers moving.

00:23:04.081 --> 00:23:07.681
And, you know, a good, a good
effort from Terrence Malick.

00:23:07.681 --> 00:23:11.123
Who's done a few good ones over the years
worth checking out his catalog, because

00:23:11.123 --> 00:23:12.833
he deals a lot of things, you and I do.

00:23:12.923 --> 00:23:16.433
We all DKI, you know, the consciousness
and, you know, the experience.

00:23:16.763 --> 00:23:19.223
Of, uh, reality and all the human beings.

00:23:19.223 --> 00:23:20.153
And what's it all about?

00:23:20.182 --> 00:23:20.692
But I think.

00:23:20.722 --> 00:23:21.892
I think I kind of admired.

00:23:22.432 --> 00:23:22.792
Wit.

00:23:23.145 --> 00:23:26.722
Because  He was sort of a little
bit detached and a little bit.

00:23:27.202 --> 00:23:30.802
Innocent and sort a
little bit gormless and.

00:23:30.844 --> 00:23:34.654
you know, it was very much just
thrown into this situation and.

00:23:34.732 --> 00:23:37.792
I really liked Sean Penn's character
of, you know, who was trying to

00:23:37.792 --> 00:23:41.092
like ground him in reality, you
know, like there's just this

00:23:41.092 --> 00:23:44.556
rock, Like It's like, oh no, man.

00:23:44.586 --> 00:23:48.726
I just want to like jump off the ship
and swim to the islands and just.

00:23:49.536 --> 00:23:53.676
You know, just eat a banana and just
like, watch the locals, just hang out.

00:23:53.826 --> 00:23:55.926
What's this war at the heart of nature.

00:23:55.986 --> 00:23:56.646
That's right.

00:23:56.736 --> 00:23:58.506
Why does it vibe with itself?

00:23:58.626 --> 00:23:59.706
Joe: Yes, fuck.

00:23:59.706 --> 00:24:02.226
That's a good, I could almost
be my favorite film of all time.

00:24:02.316 --> 00:24:04.386
Sam: And of course, you know, So you,

00:24:04.836 --> 00:24:06.246
Joe: you relate to someone is off.

00:24:06.756 --> 00:24:07.656
Heading the clouds.

00:24:07.776 --> 00:24:07.926
Oh,

00:24:07.956 --> 00:24:08.586
Sam: very much.

00:24:08.736 --> 00:24:10.866
Joe: They're looking at the biggest
possible picture, even though

00:24:10.866 --> 00:24:11.946
they're faced with their own.

00:24:11.976 --> 00:24:12.336
Totally.

00:24:12.726 --> 00:24:13.056
Sam: Yeah.

00:24:13.266 --> 00:24:13.536
And Vera.

00:24:13.686 --> 00:24:15.036
And very much like.

00:24:15.546 --> 00:24:16.236
Zoom out.

00:24:16.296 --> 00:24:16.506
Joe: Yeah.

00:24:16.536 --> 00:24:18.006
It was annoying degree where you lose.

00:24:18.066 --> 00:24:18.816
No resolution.

00:24:18.846 --> 00:24:19.416
And it's like, oh,

00:24:20.106 --> 00:24:21.036
Sam: Zoom in man.

00:24:21.036 --> 00:24:21.996
It's absolutely true.

00:24:22.356 --> 00:24:24.306
And I think come to think of it.

00:24:24.846 --> 00:24:28.056
I guess I'm about when I first saw
that film, I would have been about the

00:24:28.056 --> 00:24:30.996
age of the character and Ali's theory.

00:24:31.116 --> 00:24:31.446
Yeah.

00:24:31.566 --> 00:24:35.736
And 18, 19 20 thereabouts, because
there were just, I mean, In the Pacific,

00:24:35.736 --> 00:24:37.416
because there were just these kids.

00:24:37.536 --> 00:24:41.016
Um, getting off boats and getting
blown to pieces in seconds or

00:24:41.016 --> 00:24:42.906
drowning with a full backpack of gear.

00:24:43.536 --> 00:24:44.136
And.

00:24:44.280 --> 00:24:45.360
And just many of them.

00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:51.960
Affectively conscripts and just complete
innocence, knew nothing about the world.

00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:55.590
Next thing they know they're in the
middle of fucking epic war in the Pacific.

00:24:55.620 --> 00:24:57.210
Like it's crazy to think about.

00:24:57.750 --> 00:25:00.420
And what would I be
like in that situation?

00:25:00.600 --> 00:25:01.080
Absolutely.

00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:02.010
Just like that.

00:25:02.061 --> 00:25:05.841
Trying to get away from the
present reality by going to the.

00:25:06.231 --> 00:25:09.981
The absolute and the, the big
picture and the cosmic and.

00:25:10.090 --> 00:25:11.830
Cause, cause he's not.

00:25:12.310 --> 00:25:12.910
Like he did.

00:25:12.940 --> 00:25:16.630
The character is a degree, has a degree
of spiritual enlightenment, which I think

00:25:16.630 --> 00:25:22.300
I admired, but really he's trying to
deal with mortality like everybody else.

00:25:22.360 --> 00:25:25.900
And Sean, Penn's trying to deal with
it by being super realistic and.

00:25:26.018 --> 00:25:28.748
Which Jim Caviezel, his character
is trying to deal with it by.

00:25:28.817 --> 00:25:31.294
by meditating on, you know,
what's it really all about?

00:25:31.353 --> 00:25:33.543
And I'm trying to see
the beauty in things.

00:25:33.812 --> 00:25:37.382
But then it's interesting at the end of
the film without spoiling anything that

00:25:37.382 --> 00:25:43.316
he, uh, Has to take action and to save his
own life and does so basically, and he's

00:25:43.316 --> 00:25:45.499
capable of rising to the, to the occasion.

00:25:45.499 --> 00:25:47.551
but he doesn't take any
pleasure in killing anybody.

00:25:48.091 --> 00:25:50.191
And there are characters
in the film that do.

00:25:50.881 --> 00:25:51.541
And.

00:25:52.291 --> 00:25:56.491
It's sort of like a series of
vignettes of, you know, the M

00:25:56.761 --> 00:25:58.711
the ambitious officer who hasn't.

00:25:58.850 --> 00:26:01.189
Gotten far enough in his career and.

00:26:01.322 --> 00:26:04.484
The officer who doesn't want to
risk the lives of any of his men.

00:26:04.543 --> 00:26:05.083
And.

00:26:05.168 --> 00:26:07.748
all the way down to this private
who just sort of doesn't.

00:26:07.862 --> 00:26:09.872
Yeah, it's not really
engaging with reality.

00:26:10.322 --> 00:26:12.992
And so, yeah, so I think
there was something in that.

00:26:13.064 --> 00:26:15.344
Would the film have the
same impact on me now?

00:26:15.374 --> 00:26:15.674
Prob.

00:26:16.274 --> 00:26:16.784
Maybe not.

00:26:16.864 --> 00:26:21.154
Joe: So when I think of the film, I think
of long grass is blowing into weighing

00:26:21.154 --> 00:26:21.784
Sam: in the breeze.

00:26:21.814 --> 00:26:22.774
Nice little shots.

00:26:23.404 --> 00:26:23.854
Joe: Relate.

00:26:23.944 --> 00:26:27.394
A deep, psychological level
to a connection with nature.

00:26:27.424 --> 00:26:30.424
Did you grow up in somewhat in nature or.

00:26:30.754 --> 00:26:31.534
Oh, yeah, sure.

00:26:31.534 --> 00:26:32.524
Lots of Bush walks.

00:26:32.674 --> 00:26:33.064
Sam: Yeah.

00:26:33.094 --> 00:26:34.984
And, and I think I very much.

00:26:35.224 --> 00:26:40.684
Was a romantic and you know, the,
as in Capitola, And, you know,

00:26:40.714 --> 00:26:44.374
words worth and landscapes and.

00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:51.720
I think I was totally all in on the
simplistic binary of nature civilization.

00:26:51.767 --> 00:26:54.737
the untouched and the spoil and so on.

00:26:54.767 --> 00:26:56.837
Now I don't look at the
world that way at all.

00:26:57.137 --> 00:26:57.527
I see.

00:26:58.397 --> 00:26:58.487
The

00:26:58.517 --> 00:26:59.687
Joe: fucking myth.

00:27:00.167 --> 00:27:01.037
It is nice.

00:27:01.247 --> 00:27:01.577
Yes.

00:27:02.357 --> 00:27:02.567
Sam: Yeah.

00:27:03.167 --> 00:27:04.277
It's fucking nature.

00:27:04.367 --> 00:27:06.857
Well, yes, I think we could
do with less concrete.

00:27:07.187 --> 00:27:08.087
Uh, but it's not.

00:27:09.017 --> 00:27:10.067
Sorry, that's a sidetrack.

00:27:10.457 --> 00:27:11.717
Uh, grass is as important,
you know, people.

00:27:12.077 --> 00:27:12.167
I

00:27:12.167 --> 00:27:16.487
Joe: realized that I was like, this
is a con, this is actually why I.

00:27:16.487 --> 00:27:18.797
I see it's part of nature and

00:27:18.827 --> 00:27:20.447
Sam: there's no such thing
as untouched wilderness.

00:27:20.597 --> 00:27:22.757
There's always Virgin and wilderness.

00:27:23.477 --> 00:27:25.787
Joe: And this isn't,
maybe isn't the best idea.

00:27:25.907 --> 00:27:26.927
What do European

00:27:27.197 --> 00:27:28.757
Sam: white men want to do with virgins?

00:27:28.757 --> 00:27:30.377
You know, let's think
about it for a second.

00:27:30.437 --> 00:27:33.557
And, uh, or anyone, any, any people could.

00:27:33.677 --> 00:27:36.407
The colonizers, not just
white, but certainly, yeah.

00:27:37.367 --> 00:27:41.087
Joe: I can't think of a single
film that captures the yeah.

00:27:41.179 --> 00:27:42.859
the romance of nature.

00:27:42.949 --> 00:27:46.309
Oh, absolutely because it's in the
contract context of a war, but.

00:27:46.390 --> 00:27:46.780
yeah,

00:27:46.810 --> 00:27:49.090
Sam: we're buddies, but yes,
but I will say this about Malik

00:27:49.120 --> 00:27:50.380
that he's not falling for.

00:27:50.380 --> 00:27:53.110
The, like the nature
is the Virgin fallacy.

00:27:53.140 --> 00:27:53.620
Like it.

00:27:54.070 --> 00:27:54.700
It's brutal.

00:27:54.730 --> 00:27:55.240
That's right.

00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:55.420
And he's.

00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:56.950
And he's locating.

00:27:57.220 --> 00:28:00.940
This is not an, this is not a timeless,
untouched, primitive landscape.

00:28:01.270 --> 00:28:01.450
No, no.

00:28:01.450 --> 00:28:02.410
What he's saying is.

00:28:03.040 --> 00:28:04.690
There were people here already.

00:28:05.080 --> 00:28:07.420
Who have lived a certain
way on this landscape?

00:28:07.870 --> 00:28:11.800
And then there's these other people
that came from somewhere else.

00:28:11.950 --> 00:28:15.700
And brought this other reality and
landed it on top of these people.

00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:17.800
And that's just the 20th century foyer.

00:28:17.830 --> 00:28:18.520
Like it.

00:28:18.580 --> 00:28:19.840
It was a hell of a ride.

00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:23.170
It's sort of what he's saying, I think,
and then this is great, but at the

00:28:23.170 --> 00:28:27.550
Emory, you know, this is a, and then
I w like, we're all just sparks from

00:28:27.550 --> 00:28:29.290
one big fire or something like that.

00:28:29.350 --> 00:28:30.340
I was like, yeah, that's cool.

00:28:30.610 --> 00:28:31.720
So much great writing in that.

00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:32.770
A lot of great writing.

00:28:34.030 --> 00:28:34.600
Joe: I like it.

00:28:34.750 --> 00:28:35.320
Yeah.

00:28:35.410 --> 00:28:36.400
Yeah, you are.

00:28:36.850 --> 00:28:37.720
Somewhat off.

00:28:38.350 --> 00:28:39.190
With the fairies.

00:28:39.250 --> 00:28:40.000
Sam: Yeah, absolutely.

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:42.190
And then, well, here's two
more examples that would serve,

00:28:42.215 --> 00:28:43.325
Joe: But you're not
supposed to think about it.

00:28:43.355 --> 00:28:44.945
What's your favorite film of all time?

00:28:45.575 --> 00:28:46.925
Oh, straight down the line.

00:28:50.675 --> 00:28:55.535
Sam: See that struggle for immersion that
you've had in more recent years, I've

00:28:55.535 --> 00:28:57.245
experienced that all the way through.

00:28:57.335 --> 00:28:58.745
Joe: You were never a film school kid.

00:28:59.255 --> 00:28:59.945
Uh, yeah.

00:29:00.005 --> 00:29:00.125
But

00:29:00.155 --> 00:29:02.645
Sam: like an English nerd, but
also when I was 10 years old.

00:29:02.945 --> 00:29:05.075
I was constantly like, but wait a minute.

00:29:05.255 --> 00:29:05.915
Who's that?

00:29:06.245 --> 00:29:07.175
Where did they come from?

00:29:08.015 --> 00:29:12.065
Or I'd be, or if I learned to shut up
eventually, but I'd be like, I'll be

00:29:12.065 --> 00:29:14.855
like, but like, but where did they live?

00:29:15.095 --> 00:29:16.685
What does he do for a job?

00:29:17.135 --> 00:29:19.835
How does anyone, how
did they suddenly get.

00:29:20.885 --> 00:29:22.685
I'm just like too many
unanswered questions.

00:29:22.685 --> 00:29:23.435
Not good for that.

00:29:23.705 --> 00:29:26.375
Well, I'm glad one film
thin red line came along and

00:29:26.375 --> 00:29:27.095
Joe: blew your mind.

00:29:27.485 --> 00:29:28.895
Sam: Yeah.

00:29:29.405 --> 00:29:30.065
Oh, man.

00:29:30.275 --> 00:29:34.841
I had another good one a while ago,
but yeah, Ellie, We w we were chatting.

00:29:35.021 --> 00:29:36.971
There was a lot of, let me see.

00:29:37.001 --> 00:29:38.381
There was some Barbara Streisand.

00:29:38.411 --> 00:29:40.811
There was some, uh, Yeah.

00:29:41.231 --> 00:29:44.141
Ali: So this is, I mean, I do
like old movies and I guess.

00:29:44.610 --> 00:29:45.240
Watching them.

00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:47.370
It was a really nice thing
that my mum would do with,

00:29:47.370 --> 00:29:48.480
cause my mum loves old movies.

00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:50.670
So it was always a thing like
where they used to show them

00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:51.900
on the ABC on a Friday night.

00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:54.210
But then my mom also collected old movies.

00:29:54.210 --> 00:29:56.190
And so we would, so she
exposed us to a lot of.

00:29:56.301 --> 00:29:56.451
yeah.

00:29:56.481 --> 00:29:59.061
Old movies and like from the
thirties and forties, Oh, really?

00:29:59.271 --> 00:29:59.781
Yeah.

00:30:00.921 --> 00:30:01.611
So the first Lucky's.

00:30:01.641 --> 00:30:02.781
Lucky's yeah.

00:30:03.621 --> 00:30:05.061
So the melodrama.

00:30:05.061 --> 00:30:06.231
So the first one.

00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:10.809
That I remember watching was Stella
Dallas with Barbara Stanwyck and it's

00:30:10.809 --> 00:30:16.193
this woman who, she sort of, you would
say like a bit tacky, a bit trashy.

00:30:16.793 --> 00:30:21.863
And she meets this very sophisticated
and very handsome and lovely man

00:30:21.863 --> 00:30:24.143
and falls, madly in love with him.

00:30:24.143 --> 00:30:24.473
And.

00:30:24.668 --> 00:30:26.678
And they have a baby and it's.

00:30:27.278 --> 00:30:31.928
But ultimately they've come from such two
different worlds that, you know, that.

00:30:32.348 --> 00:30:34.718
The relationship sort of breaks down.

00:30:35.078 --> 00:30:40.748
And she's got this beautiful daughter
and it just sort of shows her moving

00:30:40.748 --> 00:30:45.968
through life on her own after the
breakup and what she sacrifices.

00:30:46.448 --> 00:30:51.668
For her daughter to be able to have that
life that she knows would be best for her.

00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:52.349
there's just.

00:30:52.949 --> 00:30:57.059
At the same, which I shared, I think
in the group chat where she's standing.

00:30:57.201 --> 00:31:01.851
You know, in the rain, the rain looking
through like the gates, watching her.

00:31:02.211 --> 00:31:05.961
Daughter get married, finally get married
and like, you know, and she's looking

00:31:05.961 --> 00:31:10.101
really bedraggled and, and, you know, the
police offers like police officer comes

00:31:10.101 --> 00:31:11.571
up instead of getting them to move along.

00:31:11.571 --> 00:31:13.281
And she's like, I just
want to see a kiss him.

00:31:13.671 --> 00:31:15.501
Oh, I'm going to start crying.

00:31:15.801 --> 00:31:21.021
Yeah, it just, it was so this woman
who was sort of a bit tacky and

00:31:21.021 --> 00:31:22.911
ridiculous, and there was something.

00:31:22.986 --> 00:31:27.846
so aspirational but all about her, but
also at the same time, really realistic.

00:31:27.906 --> 00:31:32.256
And like I said, sacrificing
her own happiness for her.

00:31:32.256 --> 00:31:33.396
Child's happiness.

00:31:33.726 --> 00:31:36.546
Which I, and I watched that,
uh, quite a young age, but.

00:31:36.632 --> 00:31:38.432
even now, still thinking about it.

00:31:38.462 --> 00:31:42.422
There is something that I
obviously identified with.

00:31:42.452 --> 00:31:43.022
And then.

00:31:43.097 --> 00:31:44.027
If we're thinking then.

00:31:44.087 --> 00:31:48.311
And that when I was a little bit older,
I watched now voyage out with, bet Davis.

00:31:48.821 --> 00:31:53.651
And she plays like someone who's
basically had a nervous breakdown.

00:31:53.921 --> 00:31:56.621
Um, she lives with a
really controlling mother.

00:31:56.677 --> 00:32:01.120
she's sort of, Hamot a shut-in,
but she finally gets the.

00:32:01.217 --> 00:32:05.177
courage to go on this cruise and then
falls in love with a married man.

00:32:05.303 --> 00:32:06.983
and it obviously doesn't work out.

00:32:07.883 --> 00:32:12.563
And it's just, again, this tragedy
and sacrificing her own happiness

00:32:12.863 --> 00:32:14.333
to take care of her mother.

00:32:16.193 --> 00:32:17.003
And then

00:32:17.063 --> 00:32:18.023
Sam: themes emerging

00:32:18.023 --> 00:32:18.923
Ali: themes are emerging.

00:32:18.923 --> 00:32:22.013
And then I would say like
probably my favorite and the one

00:32:22.013 --> 00:32:25.403
that I've watched more than any
other, because I love a musical.

00:32:25.463 --> 00:32:29.746
I love, again, the melodrama of
Eddie's Barbara Streisand in funny go.

00:32:30.076 --> 00:32:31.006
Yeah, that's great.

00:32:31.576 --> 00:32:33.466
She she's absolutely brilliant in it.

00:32:33.496 --> 00:32:34.879
And So it's based on Fanny.

00:32:34.879 --> 00:32:35.869
Brice is real.

00:32:36.019 --> 00:32:37.069
You know, actress and.

00:32:37.261 --> 00:32:41.723
yes, she sort of makes a name for
herself being this daggy awkward.

00:32:42.143 --> 00:32:43.613
But very talented.

00:32:43.883 --> 00:32:47.153
Um, star, but she does not look
like the other women, like the

00:32:47.153 --> 00:32:48.533
other women or the tall leggy.

00:32:49.043 --> 00:32:52.689
You know, beautiful sort of, you know,
actresses on the stage, you know, singing

00:32:52.689 --> 00:32:56.079
and stuff, but she's got this incredible
voice, but she's, she's hamming it up.

00:32:56.109 --> 00:32:58.089
She's taking control of.

00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:00.519
The joke, like the very
famous scene where.

00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:01.869
When she first comes out.

00:33:01.899 --> 00:33:01.989
The

00:33:01.989 --> 00:33:03.219
Sam: brassy one, not the.

00:33:03.789 --> 00:33:04.239
Classy.

00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:04.689
So

00:33:04.719 --> 00:33:06.969
Ali: like he wants her to play it, you
know, like, you know, you're supposed

00:33:06.969 --> 00:33:11.349
to be this beautiful bride and she
comes out on stage with a pillow, shoved

00:33:11.349 --> 00:33:15.099
up under a dress as she's a pregnant
bride and she's, and everyone's sort of

00:33:15.099 --> 00:33:18.819
like shocked, but she's like, I can't
pretend to be beautiful because I'm not.

00:33:18.907 --> 00:33:22.837
but she also, she owns it and then
she becomes wildly successful.

00:33:22.927 --> 00:33:26.047
And again, Falls for man.

00:33:26.587 --> 00:33:26.917
Sam: I don't know,

00:33:27.288 --> 00:33:29.301
Ali: Riddled with, he's a gambler.

00:33:29.331 --> 00:33:29.541
He.

00:33:29.871 --> 00:33:31.161
Loses all his money.

00:33:31.161 --> 00:33:34.731
There's like all this pride she had,
all she wants to do is support him.

00:33:34.971 --> 00:33:38.481
She she's willing to
sacrifice this amazing career.

00:33:38.489 --> 00:33:42.622
for him because she just wants to be with
him and, Ultimately he, and he ends up

00:33:42.652 --> 00:33:45.710
going to jail and she ends up putting,
She, she puts her life on hold and she's

00:33:45.710 --> 00:33:47.000
willing, she's waiting there for him.

00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:48.590
And she's like, I will be
there when you come out.

00:33:48.590 --> 00:33:50.210
But he sort of is like, no, I can't.

00:33:50.540 --> 00:33:51.530
And breaks our heart.

00:33:51.530 --> 00:33:55.401
And the scene at the end where she's
seeing, you know, my man, that song.

00:33:55.731 --> 00:33:56.001
Okay.

00:33:57.501 --> 00:34:00.831
I love it, you know, and she's
singing about like, yeah, that she

00:34:00.861 --> 00:34:04.311
would just do anything for him and
sacrifice her own happiness and.

00:34:05.031 --> 00:34:08.181
I just, like I said, I started
to thinking about these movies.

00:34:09.384 --> 00:34:11.631
Um, Head in a bit of a down one spot.

00:34:12.471 --> 00:34:13.341
It's like, okay.

00:34:13.341 --> 00:34:13.431
I'm.

00:34:13.761 --> 00:34:15.501
Like I need, even if I
think of other ones, like.

00:34:15.921 --> 00:34:16.221
Yeah,

00:34:16.521 --> 00:34:19.701
Joe: so sacrificing for
the sun sacrificing.

00:34:20.571 --> 00:34:22.161
The mother is very strong.

00:34:22.611 --> 00:34:23.301
For the partner?

00:34:23.331 --> 00:34:24.051
Yes.

00:34:24.081 --> 00:34:24.501
Yes.

00:34:24.561 --> 00:34:24.861
Yeah,

00:34:25.161 --> 00:34:29.541
Ali: like you're willing to
put your happiness on hold.

00:34:29.601 --> 00:34:30.141
Jesus.

00:34:30.441 --> 00:34:31.401
Yeah, and I.

00:34:31.851 --> 00:34:34.431
If I look at the patterns
of my relationships and.

00:34:34.731 --> 00:34:37.521
Relationships within my
family relationships within.

00:34:38.331 --> 00:34:44.121
Oh, Without getting too much into a trauma
history of the things that I have done.

00:34:44.267 --> 00:34:47.027
To protect your family.

00:34:47.057 --> 00:34:47.537
Yes.

00:34:47.604 --> 00:34:50.364
that it was a great cost to myself.

00:34:51.128 --> 00:34:56.790
It's something that I very much relate
to and whether it was, you know, putting

00:34:56.790 --> 00:34:59.340
my dreams on hold to support our partner.

00:34:59.700 --> 00:35:02.700
Um, whether it was, yeah, like I
said, making those sacrifices to

00:35:02.700 --> 00:35:06.674
protect a family member, whether
it was Prioritizing other people's.

00:35:06.715 --> 00:35:08.995
Health and wellbeing above my own.

00:35:09.535 --> 00:35:10.135
And.

00:35:10.795 --> 00:35:11.395
It's like, oh,

00:35:12.565 --> 00:35:13.885
Sam: This is strong stuff.

00:35:14.095 --> 00:35:14.695
Yes.

00:35:14.695 --> 00:35:15.595
It's strong stuff like.

00:35:15.625 --> 00:35:15.745
I

00:35:15.745 --> 00:35:18.835
Ali: identify with cause and
all of those characters as well.

00:35:18.835 --> 00:35:20.965
There's sort of an
ugliness to the women in.

00:35:21.025 --> 00:35:21.565
Yes.

00:35:21.625 --> 00:35:23.365
Like, you know, Barbara
Streisand plays like this.

00:35:23.485 --> 00:35:25.435
Uh, you know, sort of awkward and attract.

00:35:25.465 --> 00:35:25.555
Yeah.

00:35:26.815 --> 00:35:27.625
Sam: Flattering.

00:35:27.685 --> 00:35:28.015
Yeah.

00:35:28.045 --> 00:35:28.855
Like she's not, she's

00:35:28.855 --> 00:35:30.355
Ali: not the beautiful one.

00:35:30.355 --> 00:35:33.595
The same as like when, um, you know,
bet Davis is on the cruise and stuff.

00:35:33.595 --> 00:35:36.325
She buys a few nice outfits and she
sort of makes the most of herself,

00:35:36.355 --> 00:35:39.085
but she's not, she's supposed
to be quite a homely sort of.

00:35:39.565 --> 00:35:39.775
Yeah.

00:35:40.015 --> 00:35:41.365
And even, and yeah, Stella.

00:35:41.455 --> 00:35:41.845
It's a hard

00:35:41.845 --> 00:35:42.745
Sam: sell with Betty Davis.

00:35:43.495 --> 00:35:43.765
Same with

00:35:43.765 --> 00:35:44.005
Ali: Barbara.

00:35:44.005 --> 00:35:44.395
Stanwyck.

00:35:44.605 --> 00:35:46.495
She's a stunningly beautiful woman.

00:35:46.675 --> 00:35:51.415
But, yeah, there's a scene where she's
walking through a golf course and these

00:35:51.415 --> 00:35:55.195
young kids are like laughing header
and calling her like a Christmas tree

00:35:55.195 --> 00:35:59.005
because she's jangling because she's got
so many accessories on and she's yeah.

00:35:59.005 --> 00:35:59.965
So this trashy.

00:36:00.175 --> 00:36:00.295
Yeah.

00:36:00.775 --> 00:36:01.315
This woman.

00:36:01.315 --> 00:36:03.445
And there's something
that I've, I think it

00:36:03.445 --> 00:36:04.135
Sam: relates to that.

00:36:05.215 --> 00:36:05.845
I'm like, that looks

00:36:05.845 --> 00:36:07.285
Ali: like a manic episode
she's wearing like, yeah.

00:36:07.885 --> 00:36:10.285
Fad jacket and all the jewelry and stuff.

00:36:10.285 --> 00:36:11.155
And I'm like, oh God.

00:36:11.695 --> 00:36:12.175
Sorry.

00:36:12.955 --> 00:36:15.625
Yeah, I really, I was like, Ooh, I really.

00:36:16.285 --> 00:36:17.275
That's interesting.

00:36:17.695 --> 00:36:18.265
Yeah.

00:36:18.355 --> 00:36:20.365
I just think things to identify with that.

00:36:20.425 --> 00:36:22.015
Sam: And you called it a downward spiral.

00:36:22.585 --> 00:36:22.915
I had

00:36:22.915 --> 00:36:26.005
Ali: a bit of panic about like, oh
God, how have I moved on from this?

00:36:26.005 --> 00:36:27.895
I feel like I've been in therapy.

00:36:27.895 --> 00:36:28.525
Have I moved off?

00:36:28.555 --> 00:36:31.195
But I still love these
movies or is it that there.

00:36:31.645 --> 00:36:34.345
Fundamentally ingrained into me, like.

00:36:35.455 --> 00:36:39.385
That I have, I've had a similar
experience that I can relate to.

00:36:40.015 --> 00:36:44.245
Over my life and how those changing
sort of similar, like yeah,

00:36:44.275 --> 00:36:46.735
self-sacrifice being the theme.

00:36:47.065 --> 00:36:48.445
But in different ways.

00:36:48.835 --> 00:36:49.045
Yeah.

00:36:49.045 --> 00:36:49.255
Yeah.

00:36:49.555 --> 00:36:50.485
Sam: I think there's so much in it.

00:36:50.592 --> 00:36:52.272
felt privileged to witness.

00:36:52.872 --> 00:36:55.272
It's a rare thing outside of therapy.

00:36:55.302 --> 00:36:58.002
And you witnessing yourself in
therapy, having a breakthrough to

00:36:58.002 --> 00:37:01.422
see someone else really putting the
pieces together, like before your

00:37:01.422 --> 00:37:05.278
eyes it's was so-called And it really
confirmed, like I said, I couldn't see.

00:37:05.698 --> 00:37:08.428
I didn't quite understand why
psychoanalysis was so important when

00:37:08.428 --> 00:37:10.228
talking about cinema when I was 19.

00:37:10.378 --> 00:37:10.498
Yeah.

00:37:10.528 --> 00:37:11.308
Now I get it.

00:37:11.698 --> 00:37:16.108
And it is such a clear demonstration
of so many things that are going on,

00:37:16.108 --> 00:37:18.228
but it just raises as many questions.

00:37:18.228 --> 00:37:21.084
for example, The most
pressing question I think is.

00:37:21.151 --> 00:37:23.101
To use a term from the
conspiracy community.

00:37:23.521 --> 00:37:25.021
Predictive programming.

00:37:26.731 --> 00:37:28.271
Ali: So, where are

00:37:28.291 --> 00:37:29.401
Sam: these films?

00:37:29.522 --> 00:37:35.026
Exploring and acknowledging the pain and
sacrifice and loyalty of these women.

00:37:35.117 --> 00:37:38.387
And calling that heroism
and in the process.

00:37:38.687 --> 00:37:42.317
So are they acknowledging the suffering
of women or are they creating it?

00:37:42.707 --> 00:37:43.817
And it's in some

00:37:43.817 --> 00:37:45.347
Ali: ways socializing.

00:37:45.437 --> 00:37:45.587
Yeah.

00:37:45.707 --> 00:37:48.857
From a young age to believe
that that is the thing to do.

00:37:48.887 --> 00:37:49.397
Correct.

00:37:49.667 --> 00:37:50.597
But you were shown hundreds

00:37:50.627 --> 00:37:52.517
Joe: of movies and you chose three.

00:37:53.267 --> 00:37:53.627
Ali: True.

00:37:53.777 --> 00:37:56.477
Joe: Your mom, didn't say what
his movie on repeat until you

00:37:56.477 --> 00:37:57.557
learn how no, it doesn't matter.

00:37:57.557 --> 00:37:57.977
But at some

00:37:57.977 --> 00:38:01.487
Sam: point, even if your self programming
is sort of, who's imposing, it is

00:38:01.487 --> 00:38:05.027
sort of in a sense, not important,
but, but you are right Joe, that.

00:38:05.091 --> 00:38:05.841
There's no denying.

00:38:05.841 --> 00:38:07.641
Allie was drawn to these at a young age.

00:38:07.671 --> 00:38:08.001
Okay.

00:38:08.031 --> 00:38:09.651
So, which, and I enter

00:38:09.711 --> 00:38:10.071
Ali: in.

00:38:10.491 --> 00:38:15.441
In all fairness, like with my history,
the sacrifice started at a very young age.

00:38:15.501 --> 00:38:15.891
Yeah, well,

00:38:15.891 --> 00:38:16.341
Sam: that's what.

00:38:16.671 --> 00:38:16.821
This

00:38:18.051 --> 00:38:18.921
Joe: is Millie over.

00:38:19.011 --> 00:38:22.071
Like once your son grows up
and lose out, do you think.

00:38:22.227 --> 00:38:22.527
Yeah.

00:38:22.617 --> 00:38:23.397
We're into a new,

00:38:23.577 --> 00:38:23.787
Ali: yeah.

00:38:24.117 --> 00:38:25.167
That's certainly something.

00:38:26.007 --> 00:38:26.847
Joe: We still have.

00:38:26.985 --> 00:38:27.885
Something over you.

00:38:28.005 --> 00:38:28.395
Yeah.

00:38:28.635 --> 00:38:30.975
Make you feel bad if you
don't go to such and such.

00:38:31.536 --> 00:38:32.496
Ali: Ruling emotions.

00:38:32.646 --> 00:38:33.516
Like guilt.

00:38:35.466 --> 00:38:38.999
I think that's something I'm always
going to struggle with, but I.

00:38:39.030 --> 00:38:42.810
I do think like one of the biggest
things I've taken from therapy in

00:38:42.810 --> 00:38:47.100
the last few years has been that
it's okay to put myself first.

00:38:47.100 --> 00:38:49.440
And in fact, I should
put myself first, even.

00:38:49.488 --> 00:38:53.088
Before my son, because at the end
of the day, I can't be the parent.

00:38:53.088 --> 00:38:53.838
I need to be.

00:38:53.838 --> 00:38:55.668
If I'm not taking care of myself, Yeah.

00:38:55.728 --> 00:38:57.738
Because that has been the theme of, yeah.

00:38:57.738 --> 00:38:57.978
It's.

00:38:58.218 --> 00:38:58.608
You can't

00:38:58.638 --> 00:39:00.048
Sam: parent from a place of guilt.

00:39:00.078 --> 00:39:00.738
It doesn't work.

00:39:01.308 --> 00:39:01.728
So, yeah,

00:39:01.782 --> 00:39:04.842
Ali: Neglecting myself in every
way, whether it was physically,

00:39:04.872 --> 00:39:06.852
emotionally, psychologically.

00:39:07.392 --> 00:39:07.932
Aye.

00:39:08.562 --> 00:39:10.932
I neglected myself for a really long time.

00:39:10.932 --> 00:39:12.132
And I feel like I have made.

00:39:12.432 --> 00:39:13.872
Really meaningful effort.

00:39:14.382 --> 00:39:16.962
In my life to start to do things.

00:39:17.068 --> 00:39:21.867
To fill my cup up and, you know, put
myself first and whether that's exercise

00:39:21.867 --> 00:39:27.117
or eating healthier or going to therapy
or, and prioritizing time for myself and.

00:39:27.447 --> 00:39:30.327
Do you know, and trying to have
activities and things that are good

00:39:30.327 --> 00:39:31.887
for me that are just for me, that.

00:39:32.037 --> 00:39:35.875
That's really outside of being
a parent or, my job, my family.

00:39:36.205 --> 00:39:37.135
That is just for me.

00:39:37.135 --> 00:39:38.575
So I do feel like.

00:39:38.608 --> 00:39:42.238
I've certainly started to turn a
corner and that, that is not my

00:39:42.238 --> 00:39:44.548
emo anymore to just immediately.

00:39:44.644 --> 00:39:49.091
Put my, My needs secondary to
whoever else is forever on sake.

00:39:49.271 --> 00:39:49.571
Yeah.

00:39:49.601 --> 00:39:49.931
Yeah.

00:39:50.711 --> 00:39:52.121
Joe: The deepest psychological level.

00:39:52.121 --> 00:39:53.891
Would you still quite like to be martyred?

00:39:53.991 --> 00:39:54.711
Ali: Mm.

00:39:54.741 --> 00:39:55.161
Joe: Yeah.

00:39:55.671 --> 00:39:56.271
It's

00:39:56.721 --> 00:39:57.471
Ali: interesting.

00:39:57.501 --> 00:39:58.041
Mm.

00:39:58.177 --> 00:40:00.937
Joe: like if the right cut guy came
along, would you go and get martyred

00:40:00.937 --> 00:40:02.707
for him while he was in jail, though?

00:40:03.127 --> 00:40:03.187
I

00:40:03.187 --> 00:40:05.317
Sam: was Jim Morrison said, did
you have a good world when you

00:40:05.317 --> 00:40:07.207
die enough to base a movie on.

00:40:08.047 --> 00:40:08.887
Yeah.

00:40:08.977 --> 00:40:09.487
Ali: I don't know.

00:40:09.577 --> 00:40:10.027
I don't want this

00:40:10.027 --> 00:40:10.927
Sam: cinematic life.

00:40:11.197 --> 00:40:11.467
Ali: Yeah.

00:40:11.527 --> 00:40:11.827
I want

00:40:11.827 --> 00:40:13.807
Sam: contentment, fulfillment and peace.

00:40:14.077 --> 00:40:14.287
Ali: Yeah.

00:40:14.287 --> 00:40:18.160
I think at some that like in a
really, you know, romanticized, but

00:40:18.190 --> 00:40:20.650
also deeply troubling way when I
was younger, I probably would have

00:40:20.650 --> 00:40:23.860
absolutely been like, yeah, I've
sacrificed and, and been okay with that.

00:40:23.890 --> 00:40:24.670
But not anymore.

00:40:24.820 --> 00:40:26.740
I don't want that for myself anymore.

00:40:27.190 --> 00:40:29.290
Sam: Yeah, you don't have
any romantic illusion about

00:40:29.320 --> 00:40:29.650
Ali: no.

00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:34.288
There's no romantic illusion about
like, Giving all that up for, my son,

00:40:34.348 --> 00:40:37.918
for a partner, for his family, for
anything like that, because I can't

00:40:37.918 --> 00:40:42.328
actually do the things that I want to
do if I'm coming from that place of.

00:40:42.402 --> 00:40:43.392
Complete neglect.

00:40:43.418 --> 00:40:46.088
Sam: So the power of cinema
to reveal these things to.

00:40:46.181 --> 00:40:50.021
Uh, us or the very least we can
look back on the things, the texts

00:40:50.051 --> 00:40:51.626
we were drawn to, and we can.

00:40:52.106 --> 00:40:54.086
We can draw some powerful conclusions.

00:40:54.160 --> 00:40:56.890
and we can see the
illusions, but also just.

00:40:57.018 --> 00:41:00.378
Joe: You know, a binary that constantly
really occurs on this show is.

00:41:00.978 --> 00:41:02.298
Uh, male, female split.

00:41:02.508 --> 00:41:03.738
And how mail.

00:41:04.128 --> 00:41:04.998
And masculine.

00:41:05.298 --> 00:41:09.198
The characters, we identify with
salmon, how extremely feminine.

00:41:09.678 --> 00:41:10.878
I mean, there are three films.

00:41:11.418 --> 00:41:13.548
Ali: Probably in the
extreme version, like.

00:41:14.328 --> 00:41:14.478
The

00:41:14.478 --> 00:41:16.578
Joe: three films that
I do not want to watch.

00:41:16.728 --> 00:41:20.749
I talk like they sound terrible
to me, So it's interesting.

00:41:20.749 --> 00:41:21.349
Incredible.

00:41:23.479 --> 00:41:27.529
However, whatever point we're at
in 2024, actually we fall back

00:41:27.529 --> 00:41:29.359
into these gender stereotypes.

00:41:29.839 --> 00:41:30.679
Denify with

00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:31.699
Ali: socialization.

00:41:31.699 --> 00:41:32.029
Is it?

00:41:32.119 --> 00:41:36.088
Or is it something that we've come to
by ourselves through our own experience.

00:41:36.088 --> 00:41:37.798
It's it's it's complex.

00:41:37.828 --> 00:41:39.658
I don't think it's
either one or the other.

00:41:39.658 --> 00:41:39.778
Yeah.

00:41:39.928 --> 00:41:42.268
That's probably a bit
of influence of both.

00:41:42.298 --> 00:41:42.598
Sam: Yeah.

00:41:42.868 --> 00:41:44.908
Joe: And that's, dude's
identify with dues and chicks.

00:41:44.908 --> 00:41:45.508
Identify with.

00:41:46.048 --> 00:41:48.388
Sam: But can I say,
well, once I got to the.

00:41:48.456 --> 00:41:51.816
Because you also in this same
text thread, you reminded me that.

00:41:52.296 --> 00:41:58.206
What a sentimental lad I was, and I
really liked things like beaches by bet.

00:41:58.206 --> 00:41:58.626
Midland.

00:41:58.716 --> 00:42:01.972
And Moonstruck with Cher And
I've always liked romcoms.

00:42:02.542 --> 00:42:03.292
Especially.

00:42:03.802 --> 00:42:07.762
Ones that had a bit of a gritty edge to
them, or, but I kind of don't mind that.

00:42:07.798 --> 00:42:09.298
Tabloid pap either.

00:42:09.298 --> 00:42:10.378
Like I like it all.

00:42:10.439 --> 00:42:14.249
So I don't necessarily have highfalutin
tastes even though yeah, sure.

00:42:14.309 --> 00:42:17.189
Thin red line, you know, technically
classified as an art film, but if

00:42:17.189 --> 00:42:21.479
you want my opinion, I think it was a
successful, fairly populist film, really.

00:42:21.598 --> 00:42:24.509
It just had to go up against
saving private Ryan, what I was

00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:28.679
going to get to is I think that
the, the best cinemas helps me.

00:42:28.919 --> 00:42:29.969
See.

00:42:30.100 --> 00:42:36.070
Because there's lots of great films about
dudes that are trying to be that hero and

00:42:36.070 --> 00:42:40.210
it's not working and it causes problems
and they have to disconnect with reality.

00:42:40.240 --> 00:42:41.680
There's lots of good films that do that.

00:42:41.680 --> 00:42:43.120
I can't remember the names right now, but.

00:42:43.161 --> 00:42:45.411
Films where there's a glide,
trying to solve problems through

00:42:45.411 --> 00:42:47.121
like decisive masculine action.

00:42:47.121 --> 00:42:48.051
And it doesn't work.

00:42:48.231 --> 00:42:50.241
Basically connected to
feelings and talk it through.

00:42:50.361 --> 00:42:50.661
Yeah.

00:42:51.981 --> 00:42:52.311
Joe: Yeah.

00:42:52.761 --> 00:42:54.501
And in the end, I just
decided to go bowling.

00:42:54.741 --> 00:42:55.341
Exactly.

00:42:55.341 --> 00:42:58.251
Which is exactly actually
my hero's journey.

00:42:58.311 --> 00:42:58.941
Yes.

00:42:59.061 --> 00:43:00.051
It's like, ah, fuck.

00:43:00.081 --> 00:43:02.091
All this crazy shit happens in the world.

00:43:02.121 --> 00:43:05.391
And yeah, Joe, you got to pick
the kids up from school now.

00:43:05.961 --> 00:43:06.621
Oh, okay.

00:43:06.731 --> 00:43:06.971
yeah.

00:43:07.001 --> 00:43:08.801
You know, it's like a
constantly waking up.

00:43:08.831 --> 00:43:09.731
It was all a dream.

00:43:09.791 --> 00:43:10.121
Yeah.

00:43:10.361 --> 00:43:11.621
Well, no, whatever.

00:43:11.681 --> 00:43:13.541
No one's tapping you on the shoulder mate.

00:43:13.661 --> 00:43:15.311
Like to come and be the hero.

00:43:15.611 --> 00:43:17.591
Yeah, but you do have
to go get those kids.

00:43:17.621 --> 00:43:18.371
Oh, okay.

00:43:18.551 --> 00:43:22.717
Not try it yeah, I mean, it's interesting
how deep the such psychological

00:43:22.747 --> 00:43:24.746
side of this topic has been.

00:43:25.136 --> 00:43:25.586
Absolutely.

00:43:26.636 --> 00:43:26.816
Yeah.

00:43:27.716 --> 00:43:28.136
I mean.

00:43:28.436 --> 00:43:29.366
Allie dug deep.

00:43:29.756 --> 00:43:29.936
Yeah.

00:43:30.326 --> 00:43:31.196
I learned a lot and.

00:43:31.556 --> 00:43:32.186
Remains.

00:43:33.536 --> 00:43:33.956
Well, can I.

00:43:34.856 --> 00:43:37.496
Just someone who identifies
with someone who's a little bit.

00:43:37.556 --> 00:43:38.606
Well, let me get into clouds.

00:43:38.846 --> 00:43:39.116
And make

00:43:39.176 --> 00:43:39.866
Sam: it to nature.

00:43:39.956 --> 00:43:41.336
Let me be more vulnerable.

00:43:41.349 --> 00:43:46.444
I gotta say it's some real,
like basic bitch, like stuff.

00:43:46.774 --> 00:43:47.674
That I'm going to.

00:43:48.214 --> 00:43:48.814
Celebrate.

00:43:49.051 --> 00:43:49.441
Okay.

00:43:49.621 --> 00:43:50.731
When Harry met Sally.

00:43:51.871 --> 00:43:52.141
Yeah.

00:43:53.731 --> 00:43:54.241
It is.

00:43:55.261 --> 00:43:56.161
Ali: Deeply entertaining.

00:43:56.851 --> 00:43:57.751
Sam: And very moving.

00:43:57.811 --> 00:43:58.141
Yeah.

00:43:58.411 --> 00:44:02.371
And that genuinely the pie is
really got some good payoffs in it.

00:44:02.401 --> 00:44:02.521
Yeah.

00:44:02.641 --> 00:44:04.531
That's how I feel about
four weddings and a funeral.

00:44:04.591 --> 00:44:05.041
It's good.

00:44:05.101 --> 00:44:05.311
Yeah.

00:44:05.551 --> 00:44:05.791
Yeah.

00:44:08.011 --> 00:44:11.041
And actually that one really
landed with me at the right time

00:44:11.041 --> 00:44:13.021
because my mother had passed.

00:44:13.471 --> 00:44:14.281
And that the funerals.

00:44:14.911 --> 00:44:17.071
So, so yes.

00:44:17.281 --> 00:44:19.471
Joe: And the absolute
height stop all the bell.

00:44:19.501 --> 00:44:20.641
Uh, stuff, all the clocks.

00:44:21.211 --> 00:44:22.351
Oh, amazing.

00:44:22.441 --> 00:44:22.921
Amazing.

00:44:23.401 --> 00:44:24.571
Amazing moment in a film.

00:44:24.871 --> 00:44:26.221
Sam: Yeah, I've really enjoyed here.

00:44:26.221 --> 00:44:27.749
Grants work and.

00:44:27.750 --> 00:44:28.740
Bridget Jones.

00:44:28.830 --> 00:44:31.260
Oh, Literally one of my favorite movies.

00:44:31.710 --> 00:44:32.250
Yes.

00:44:32.310 --> 00:44:32.910
Yeah.

00:44:32.940 --> 00:44:33.900
Ali: Very much.

00:44:34.410 --> 00:44:38.880
Favorite, especially in my early twenties,
when that was a pop hugely popular.

00:44:39.630 --> 00:44:43.290
Yeah, I was that woman who
changed smoked was chubby.

00:44:43.560 --> 00:44:44.670
Drank too much.

00:44:45.600 --> 00:44:46.170
Yes.

00:44:46.170 --> 00:44:46.740
Yes.

00:44:47.070 --> 00:44:47.400
Yes.

00:44:47.490 --> 00:44:48.210
That's problematic.

00:44:49.260 --> 00:44:49.740
Wow.

00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:50.430
Very much.

00:44:50.460 --> 00:44:51.930
I was Bridget Jones.

00:44:51.930 --> 00:44:51.960
I.

00:44:52.380 --> 00:44:53.160
And I was okay.

00:44:53.910 --> 00:44:54.420
Sam: Relational.

00:44:54.420 --> 00:44:55.260
They're relational.

00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:56.760
Joe: Yeah.

00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:59.850
Shit, just judge is a much better role
model than those other three women.

00:45:00.090 --> 00:45:00.660
Yeah, I agree.

00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:03.900
Ali: I mean, yes, there was
a ridiculousness about him.

00:45:04.020 --> 00:45:04.230
I have a

00:45:04.260 --> 00:45:05.370
Joe: slapstick quality.

00:45:05.730 --> 00:45:06.720
You want to try to call me?

00:45:07.170 --> 00:45:07.500
Yes.

00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:07.950
Yes.

00:45:08.010 --> 00:45:08.460
It's something

00:45:08.490 --> 00:45:09.540
Ali: that I really related to.

00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:10.920
I think he broke your neck,

00:45:11.160 --> 00:45:12.360
Joe: getting something out of a car,

00:45:12.510 --> 00:45:13.260
Ali: putting my son in the car.

00:45:13.680 --> 00:45:14.010
Yes.

00:45:15.210 --> 00:45:16.320
Breaks down putting

00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:17.160
Joe: this son in the car.

00:45:17.190 --> 00:45:17.820
Oh, my God.

00:45:17.820 --> 00:45:19.050
That is slapstick.

00:45:19.050 --> 00:45:21.990
If you, Nick, wasn't actually literally
broking that that would be hilarious.

00:45:22.200 --> 00:45:22.980
And that's right.

00:45:23.700 --> 00:45:24.210
Reality.

00:45:24.240 --> 00:45:25.530
It's like, oh my God.

00:45:25.620 --> 00:45:25.890
Ali: And that's.

00:45:26.100 --> 00:45:27.360
It's been so many moments.

00:45:27.810 --> 00:45:28.230
Sandy's

00:45:28.230 --> 00:45:29.400
Sam: pulling the baby out of the car.

00:45:29.520 --> 00:45:30.810
Barbra Streisand's in bed.

00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:31.800
Ali: Yeah.

00:45:32.640 --> 00:45:33.390
About my life.

00:45:34.200 --> 00:45:34.830
I've yeah.

00:45:35.250 --> 00:45:35.640
Bridget.

00:45:35.700 --> 00:45:39.150
Oh, she just, yeah, again, but
it's that making that choice and

00:45:39.150 --> 00:45:41.250
chasing the Hugh Grant's yes.

00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:43.080
Like the one that's not good for her.

00:45:43.230 --> 00:45:43.470
Yeah.

00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:45.780
There's something that's
compelling her to go.

00:45:47.070 --> 00:45:48.030
Yeah.

00:45:48.240 --> 00:45:48.360
And

00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:49.800
Joe: you're still doing it to this day.

00:45:51.660 --> 00:45:52.980
Sam: Well, I think we should wrap it up.

00:45:53.220 --> 00:45:54.060
I was going to say no, cause.

00:45:54.780 --> 00:45:57.810
I found it very interesting
to reflect just now on.

00:45:58.260 --> 00:46:00.570
Who did I identify within?

00:46:01.050 --> 00:46:05.610
So like identified with Renee Zellweger's
character, but I also identified with.

00:46:05.636 --> 00:46:06.836
Colin Firth and Hugh grant.

00:46:06.836 --> 00:46:08.426
So that was fun to like have three black.

00:46:08.996 --> 00:46:12.266
And the scene where the two
of them having a fistfight.

00:46:12.356 --> 00:46:14.936
It is the most hysterical thing.

00:46:15.206 --> 00:46:15.836
All times.

00:46:16.046 --> 00:46:16.826
It's incredible.

00:46:16.826 --> 00:46:17.726
Ali: Exactly how.

00:46:17.786 --> 00:46:20.276
Yeah, Darren men fight when
you actually seen a fight.

00:46:20.576 --> 00:46:21.626
That is what they look like.

00:46:21.626 --> 00:46:22.526
It's so ridiculous.

00:46:22.526 --> 00:46:24.476
Sam: How did two trained actors?

00:46:24.716 --> 00:46:27.356
Because the worry would be,
they'd have forgotten how to pull

00:46:27.356 --> 00:46:29.546
off a thing like that because
they've had too much training,

00:46:29.546 --> 00:46:31.526
but no, they absolutely crush it.

00:46:31.646 --> 00:46:33.926
And it's it's dust the best thing.

00:46:33.926 --> 00:46:35.936
It's one of the best
sequences in all the cinema.

00:46:35.966 --> 00:46:36.716
I swear by it.

00:46:36.797 --> 00:46:40.157
like if I had to, at the end of
the day, I'm like, yeah, I'm Renee

00:46:40.157 --> 00:46:41.777
Zellweger, like in that film.

00:46:42.167 --> 00:46:45.797
And when Harry met Sally,
I could identify with.

00:46:45.858 --> 00:46:46.660
With Billy Crystal's.

00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:47.620
Avoidant.

00:46:48.340 --> 00:46:49.390
Attachment in there.

00:46:49.750 --> 00:46:54.670
And that moment where, they've just had
sex and then afterwards, and he's like,

00:46:56.067 --> 00:46:57.117
Staring at the ceiling.

00:46:57.327 --> 00:46:58.107
What do I do now?

00:46:58.107 --> 00:46:58.677
And I'm like, yep.

00:46:58.707 --> 00:46:59.397
I've been there.

00:46:59.505 --> 00:47:03.495
I think now, I think, I feel a bit more
like Meg Ryan, honestly, these days.

00:47:03.525 --> 00:47:06.204
And I'd say the same
about, You've got mail.

00:47:06.504 --> 00:47:06.714
Yeah.

00:47:06.894 --> 00:47:10.524
I think I was kind of the cynical.

00:47:10.612 --> 00:47:11.602
I prefer timeless.

00:47:11.662 --> 00:47:12.262
In Seattle.

00:47:12.352 --> 00:47:12.652
Yeah.

00:47:12.862 --> 00:47:14.332
Ali: Well, I mean, Again, right.

00:47:15.232 --> 00:47:16.462
Sam: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:47:16.492 --> 00:47:17.092
Absolutely.

00:47:17.092 --> 00:47:20.632
And yeah, no, I could, and again,
I could take either part in that.

00:47:20.812 --> 00:47:22.372
And they relate to either.

00:47:22.822 --> 00:47:26.662
But I would say, I think going from
being like the cynical, smart talking

00:47:26.662 --> 00:47:29.722
guy in you've got mail to like the, yeah.

00:47:29.722 --> 00:47:32.032
The earnest sincere
little book shop owner.

00:47:32.032 --> 00:47:33.232
It's like, yeah, I think I'm her.

00:47:33.652 --> 00:47:35.332
And, and yeah, it's, it's.

00:47:36.052 --> 00:47:38.542
Like, it's just fun to think about.

00:47:38.610 --> 00:47:40.740
If your identifications
changed over the years.

00:47:40.740 --> 00:47:44.700
Cause what's fun about a romcom
is that the roles are usually

00:47:44.700 --> 00:47:46.170
balanced to some degree.

00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:48.360
Like they, we don't really
have a central figure.

00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:48.990
We have.

00:47:49.092 --> 00:47:51.732
Two people having a hero's
journey at the same time.

00:47:52.002 --> 00:47:57.010
Where, where their quest coincides,
And I think maybe that's why it's such

00:47:57.010 --> 00:48:01.010
a rewarding genre and one that I've
always been drawn to because as much

00:48:01.010 --> 00:48:03.140
as I had heroes that I really admired.

00:48:03.590 --> 00:48:06.710
I think there was always just
something holding me back from going.

00:48:07.070 --> 00:48:09.170
I am Robin hood in prince of thieves.

00:48:09.230 --> 00:48:10.670
It's like, oh no, no, no.

00:48:11.450 --> 00:48:12.980
Kevin, Costner's a movie star.

00:48:13.100 --> 00:48:14.150
Yeah, he's doing that.

00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:15.800
I can't see me doing that.

00:48:15.980 --> 00:48:20.750
You know, like even in fantasy, like
it's just, it's not going over for me.

00:48:20.780 --> 00:48:23.720
I want to be Alan Rickman,
you know, call off Christmas.

00:48:24.303 --> 00:48:25.037
So it's just.

00:48:25.547 --> 00:48:26.117
Just the, yeah.

00:48:26.327 --> 00:48:26.867
I left it

00:48:26.897 --> 00:48:27.767
Ali: just small, like.

00:48:29.087 --> 00:48:29.537
I love.

00:48:31.277 --> 00:48:32.237
I mean, I think

00:48:33.137 --> 00:48:34.607
Joe: for me, it's a secret.

00:48:34.694 --> 00:48:36.854
It's just, it's not an aspiration.

00:48:36.944 --> 00:48:37.724
It's believable.

00:48:37.724 --> 00:48:38.864
It's a secret hope.

00:48:38.984 --> 00:48:40.904
I know that I'll be John Connor.

00:48:41.024 --> 00:48:41.354
Yeah.

00:48:42.134 --> 00:48:42.524
You know?

00:48:42.614 --> 00:48:43.034
Yeah.

00:48:43.124 --> 00:48:46.784
Like if AI blows up the world,
I'll be John Connor and I'll be

00:48:46.874 --> 00:48:48.614
protecting my mum or whatever.

00:48:48.674 --> 00:48:49.094
Right.

00:48:49.973 --> 00:48:55.163
and if reality turns out to be a complete
illusion, I'll be Neo and I'll see through

00:48:55.193 --> 00:48:57.443
the whole thing and I'll save humanity.

00:48:58.013 --> 00:48:59.753
But it's not like it's not.

00:48:59.753 --> 00:49:01.493
Got me thinking I'm capable of that.

00:49:01.763 --> 00:49:05.903
It's like in my secret where nobody
can see little private realm.

00:49:06.803 --> 00:49:11.903
secretly identifying or with a
detached heat man, like when I'm

00:49:12.503 --> 00:49:17.513
dating and stuff like that, it's
like, there's a detachment and yeah.

00:49:17.753 --> 00:49:22.583
And, and like I said, in the end at
44, It's the detachment of the Hitman.

00:49:23.663 --> 00:49:24.803
A little bit capable of.

00:49:25.493 --> 00:49:29.003
Um, And no signs of savior
of humanity that trial.

00:49:29.393 --> 00:49:30.023
At this point.

00:49:30.653 --> 00:49:34.169
Sam: But unlike the Hitman, you have
the reverence for life and it's like,

00:49:34.319 --> 00:49:36.119
okay, so what's the secret fantasy.

00:49:36.629 --> 00:49:38.399
That you know, the secret hope.

00:49:38.429 --> 00:49:39.299
I think you called it.

00:49:39.359 --> 00:49:39.509
Yeah.

00:49:39.749 --> 00:49:40.199
It's about

00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:41.039
Joe: capability.

00:49:41.069 --> 00:49:41.369
Yeah.

00:49:41.729 --> 00:49:43.109
I'll have so much.

00:49:43.194 --> 00:49:44.141
Capability.

00:49:44.261 --> 00:49:44.981
Yes.

00:49:45.041 --> 00:49:48.551
Whereas in my actual life, Like
I do a job that I done for 20

00:49:48.551 --> 00:49:50.381
years, but every time I'll worry.

00:49:50.861 --> 00:49:53.951
The night before, like, oh, fuck,
am I going to fuck this up tomorrow?

00:49:54.071 --> 00:49:55.481
And it's like, The opposite.

00:49:55.841 --> 00:49:58.241
Of the confidence of a hero in a movie.

00:49:58.331 --> 00:49:58.481
Yeah.

00:49:58.871 --> 00:49:59.711
My actual life

00:50:00.011 --> 00:50:00.881
Sam: resolute.

00:50:01.091 --> 00:50:05.891
Although I do think the best characters
do display fear and uncertainty, and I've

00:50:05.891 --> 00:50:07.391
always thought that was more convincing.

00:50:07.421 --> 00:50:10.451
And then that enables the
suspension of disbelief more easily.

00:50:10.451 --> 00:50:10.991
Yeah.

00:50:11.021 --> 00:50:12.491
Dan Rambo just strike.

00:50:12.791 --> 00:50:13.661
Yeah.

00:50:13.871 --> 00:50:14.561
They'll have gunfire.

00:50:14.891 --> 00:50:20.501
Whereas Stallone in the first Rocky
movie, that's, that's a different matter.

00:50:20.591 --> 00:50:21.971
He's very vulnerable or stolen.

00:50:22.001 --> 00:50:23.471
Yeah, all this Rambo.

00:50:23.651 --> 00:50:24.971
Bruce diehard.

00:50:25.091 --> 00:50:25.601
Yeah.

00:50:26.291 --> 00:50:27.041
Relatable.

00:50:28.061 --> 00:50:28.631
That's right?

00:50:28.631 --> 00:50:29.861
Yeah, that's a fun one.

00:50:29.903 --> 00:50:30.832
again, Alan Rickman.

00:50:30.913 --> 00:50:34.293
Joe: but I don't think we should just
endlessly drawing on about film to film.

00:50:35.283 --> 00:50:36.393
Well, I want you to go.

00:50:36.453 --> 00:50:37.653
Sam: I want it to try and satisfy.

00:50:38.223 --> 00:50:41.763
Your challenge to me, which is I'd
haven't necessarily revealed enough.

00:50:41.853 --> 00:50:43.953
And so the secret hope and why was I.

00:50:44.313 --> 00:50:47.943
Continually drawn to these
melodramas like beaches and.

00:50:48.543 --> 00:50:50.343
The N romcoms.

00:50:50.554 --> 00:50:52.564
And who, what is the secret hope?

00:50:52.624 --> 00:50:54.604
And I think.

00:50:54.873 --> 00:50:57.723
What we know with beaches that, well,
it's the fear that you'll be the tragic

00:50:57.723 --> 00:51:03.063
character who dies young, but I think
I've really wanted to be bet mid low

00:51:03.063 --> 00:51:07.233
and like the B the, you know, the triple
threat, like her, like a young character.

00:51:07.263 --> 00:51:07.323
Yeah.

00:51:07.923 --> 00:51:08.493
And.

00:51:08.566 --> 00:51:11.626
Be admired for being talented and.

00:51:12.286 --> 00:51:14.926
Uh, and to have quips ready
all the time like that.

00:51:14.926 --> 00:51:16.186
Yeah, that was very aspirational.

00:51:16.186 --> 00:51:16.996
I really wanted that.

00:51:17.120 --> 00:51:19.280
And then when it comes to the
romcoms, now, I don't want

00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:20.750
to be the dashing handsome.

00:51:20.876 --> 00:51:21.416
Bloke.

00:51:21.546 --> 00:51:24.696
If anything I'll relate to
the bumbling types, much more.

00:51:25.086 --> 00:51:25.476
But.

00:51:25.566 --> 00:51:26.436
I'll I'll say it.

00:51:26.796 --> 00:51:29.496
I want to be like rescued
by the perfect lover.

00:51:29.496 --> 00:51:30.036
There you go.

00:51:30.036 --> 00:51:31.896
Like, I'm not too big to admit it.

00:51:32.496 --> 00:51:36.216
You know, And I think that, you
know, as we were talking about

00:51:36.216 --> 00:51:40.566
the polarities in dating, uh,
dating profiles between episodes.

00:51:40.652 --> 00:51:44.102
that traditional, traditionally
defined feminine energy of

00:51:44.102 --> 00:51:45.362
like, yeah, come find me.

00:51:45.362 --> 00:51:46.732
And create the life.

00:51:47.092 --> 00:51:47.902
That I've always wanted to be

00:51:47.932 --> 00:51:49.642
Joe: rescued by the perfect lover.

00:51:49.702 --> 00:51:50.092
Yeah.

00:51:50.092 --> 00:51:50.362
Yeah.

00:51:50.962 --> 00:51:51.292
I want to be

00:51:51.502 --> 00:51:53.002
Sam: found and yeah.

00:51:54.742 --> 00:51:55.252
Joe: It's about.

00:51:55.672 --> 00:51:56.272
Sam: We're go on.

00:51:56.512 --> 00:51:57.082
Which film?

00:51:57.112 --> 00:51:57.562
Joe: No, that's.

00:51:57.562 --> 00:51:59.632
I couldn't tell you, but
of course I want that.

00:51:59.842 --> 00:52:00.022
Sam: Yeah.

00:52:00.052 --> 00:52:00.292
Yeah.

00:52:00.352 --> 00:52:01.582
I want to be found in place.

00:52:02.002 --> 00:52:02.362
Yeah.

00:52:02.692 --> 00:52:03.112
Ali: Oh, yeah.

00:52:03.172 --> 00:52:03.832
Like, yeah.

00:52:03.922 --> 00:52:05.032
I think everybody does.

00:52:05.032 --> 00:52:06.412
Don't they like, there's a part of it.

00:52:06.412 --> 00:52:07.042
If you can.

00:52:07.162 --> 00:52:07.522
Yes.

00:52:07.882 --> 00:52:10.462
Like someone just is
going to fix everything.

00:52:10.522 --> 00:52:11.452
That would be amazing.

00:52:11.662 --> 00:52:11.872
We're all

00:52:11.872 --> 00:52:12.412
Joe: been sold.

00:52:12.442 --> 00:52:13.402
A massive lie.

00:52:13.642 --> 00:52:14.452
Ali: Romanticism.

00:52:15.112 --> 00:52:15.982
So unrealistic

00:52:15.982 --> 00:52:17.752
Sam: found and placed where I belong.

00:52:17.782 --> 00:52:18.082
Ali: Yeah.

00:52:18.262 --> 00:52:18.562
Sam: Yes.

00:52:18.952 --> 00:52:19.132
Resolve.

00:52:19.582 --> 00:52:20.452
Everything resolved.

00:52:20.482 --> 00:52:21.112
Correct.

00:52:21.412 --> 00:52:25.912
I mean, as much as I, my ASD just, I
couldn't deal with endings in general,

00:52:25.912 --> 00:52:27.772
let alone happy endings and Yeah.

00:52:27.862 --> 00:52:29.452
And then make up the rest.

00:52:29.512 --> 00:52:29.932
I'm like, yeah.

00:52:29.962 --> 00:52:30.802
But then what happens?

00:52:30.952 --> 00:52:34.462
And, uh, does he go to work the next
day or does he take the day off?

00:52:34.852 --> 00:52:35.482
I need to know.

00:52:35.872 --> 00:52:36.292
Um,

00:52:38.182 --> 00:52:38.812
Uh, yeah.

00:52:39.112 --> 00:52:39.532
But no.

00:52:39.532 --> 00:52:41.413
So I think I'm an absolute layup.

00:52:41.450 --> 00:52:44.413
Ali, Well, not for really putting
those pieces together so quickly.

00:52:44.413 --> 00:52:47.023
Also, you were just like, as soon
as you got, as soon as you mentioned

00:52:47.023 --> 00:52:48.373
Barbara Stanwyck, you were off.

00:52:49.273 --> 00:52:49.483
Joe: Yeah.

00:52:49.483 --> 00:52:53.473
I mean, I wasn't sure if that's a deep
and intellectual podcast could handle a

00:52:53.503 --> 00:52:55.573
topic as flippant as your favorite movie.

00:52:56.323 --> 00:52:58.213
But, uh, when, all right, and next

00:52:58.213 --> 00:52:59.773
Sam: week, favorite colors every time.

00:52:59.833 --> 00:53:00.583
Yeah, that's right.

00:53:00.643 --> 00:53:02.533
Come back to favorite colors
and favorite footy team.

00:53:07.813 --> 00:53:08.803
Uh, what's your star.

00:53:09.168 --> 00:53:12.528
But now, Joe, what about that
famous concluding line that

00:53:12.528 --> 00:53:13.608
we haven't done for awhile?

00:53:14.058 --> 00:53:15.888
Joe: We only do it every
couple of episodes.

00:53:17.268 --> 00:53:17.508
Hmm.

00:53:17.898 --> 00:53:19.248
That's been another one.

00:53:19.578 --> 00:53:21.468
Of the 10,000 things

00:53:21.738 --> 00:53:22.278
Sam: it has.

00:53:22.668 --> 00:53:23.118
Thank you.

00:53:23.148 --> 00:53:23.748
Thanks Sam.