The Modern Hotelier #239: Hospitality's Biggest Stories in 2025 & Predictions for 2026 | Hospitality Roundtable with Katie Cline, Glenn Haussman, Josiah Mackenzie, and Zach Busekrus
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Steve Carran: Welcome to another episode of The Modern Hotelier. This is a special episode. David and I had the opportunity to join a round table with some other hospitality podcasters, which was led by Katie Cline from Suite Success. We were joined by Glenn Hausmann from No Vacancy, Josiah Mackenzie from Hospitality Daily, and Zach Busekrus from Behind the Stays.
In this episode, we talk about what happened in 2025 and some trends and predictions for 2026. David, what were some of your favorite takeaways from this conversation? 
David Millili: Yeah, well it was nice being on camera with some of the other podcasters in hospitality. I thought it was pretty cool some of the insights people had on what happened this year and what they think is gonna be happening next year. So I think it's interesting take from some of the top voices in hospitality. 
Steve Carran: Yeah, I agree. It's always fun to hear, you know, kind of a unique perspective, David, we kind of have our perspectives, but, you know, hearing what other podcasters think and also some of the highlights of 2025. I forget what all happened throughout this year. So this is kind of a fun refresher and reminders of kind of everything that's happened in hospitality. So we hope you enjoy the episode and let us know what you think in the comments. Enjoy. 
Katie Cline: Well, hello everyone. It is so lovely to see you all. I'm Katie Cline, host of Suite Success podcast, and I am genuinely honored to be ringing in the holiday season with some of the most insightful voices in hospitality today. First up, we have Zach Busekrus host of Behind the Stays. Zach, always great to see you.
Zach Busekrus: Thanks for having me, Katie. It's an honor to be here. 
Katie Cline: Next up we have David Millili and Steve Carran, co-host of The Modern Hotelier, David. Steve, how are you both doing? 
David Millili: Doing great. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. Doing great. 
Katie Cline: We also have Glenn Hausmann host of No Vacancy. Glen, how have you been?
Glenn Hausmann: Hey, you're doing great. It's so awesome to be here with all of you today. This should be a lot of fun and maybe pretty dangerous. 
Katie Cline: I hope so, rounding out our proverbial round table, we have Josiah Mackenzie, host of Hospitality Daily. Hi Josiah. 
Josiah Mackenzie: Hey, Katie. Great to be here. Great to see you all.
Katie Cline: So we have gathered together not only to toast the holiday season, but also to reflect on the year that's ending and to look ahead at what's to come in 2026. So let's start with talking about 2025. It was a big year of unexpected partnerships and bold brand reinventions, a renewed focus on guest loyalty, major moves in luxury, and so much more.
We're each going to share our thoughts on what we saw as the most pivotal, impactful story, trend, or development in the hospitality space for the entire year. So I'm gonna go ahead and kick us off. For me, I think I would have to say the most pivotal story of 2025 was the long awaited completion of the eight year $2 billion restoration of the Waldorf Astoria, New York. Personally, I see it as more than a renovation, almost a rebirth of one of the most iconic hotels, not only in New York, but in all of America. The level of investment, the meticulous preservation of art deco details and the addition of hundreds of branded residences felt like a signal of where luxury is and really where the industry is moving to. What did you all think? 
Glenn Hausmann: I think you're spot on. I think luxury is going ultra luxury, and that's gonna be a theme that's gonna permeate, I think through a lot of this conversation going forward. 
Josiah Mackenzie: This property is an irreplaceable asset. I think it speaks to people's desire for history and heritage and making sure that it is fresh and feels, it has the creature comforts that we want in a luxurious property. I think we're seeing a lot more of this. 
David Millili: Yeah. And I'll just say working, having worked and lived in New York for 20 years. It was the only property that if I had no reason to, if I walked by it, I went into the lobby and just wanted, wanted to see it and kind of feel it. It just had that feel. There was even rumors that the, uh, the bellman and the, uh, and you know, the valet or whoever staff was there were making like $200,000 a year in tips and, and salary. So it not only was it luxury, it was one of those places you would, you'd like to work if you were in, in New York. 
Katie Cline: Yeah. Amazing. Zach, what about you? What do you think was the top story of the year? 
Zach Busekrus: That's like asking me to pick my favorite child, and I do have one, but I thought a lot about this, Katie, and I think that. It's not one individual story. I think there's a broader trend that I thought permeated throughout various sectors within hospitality, a trend around like loyalty, right? And consumer loyalty in particular. I think loyalty was disrupted on a number of fronts. American Airlines removed many of the benefits that status holders have cherished for years. Hyatt did something similar. Hilton just announced an overhaul to their own program, in theory, making it easier to earn status.
But then, you know, also introducing an ultra-LX tier as well with our diamond reserve. And, and then in addition to that, we saw programs like premium programs paid membership programs, what Ryanair did, but they launched his paid membership program and then sunsetted it, I think, seven or eight months after they announced it.
And I think there's this general grappling that the industry is going through right now with respect to. What do consumers care about? What is loyalty does? Does loyalty need to be, you know, reimagined? I'm a little biased based off of what I do in my day job? I think the answer to that is yes, but I do think that there, there were several big stories this year that really call into question, what is the future of loyalty?
Loyalty to a brand is loyalty, a feeling? And I think that quite frankly, that is the big thing that we need to be wrestling with over the next couple years in, in this industry. I don't have the answer n necessarily. I also think it's interesting that Airbnb's long talked about launching a loyalty program.
They still haven't quite done it, but they certainly haven't, they're doing a test with hotel tonight, I think some of us have, have talked about before but yeah, so I think there's a big question mark, uh, with respect to what should loyalty look like for today's traveler? And do today's travelers care about loyalty in the same way that maybe generations previous did?
Glenn Hausmann: Zach you are right. That is a huge issue that we have to be concerned about. But I think what's most concerning is all of the major brands tout these huge numbers of loyal customers. We have 180 million, we have 300 million, but. They're not really looking at the reality of the fact that if I, as a consumer, I'm in every single loyalty program, am I really loyal to anything at all? A hundred percent. And we start to chip away at all of those benefits, it makes it a lot more, uh, complicated. Zach, you know, you talked American Airlines. I've been struggling with Delta all year trying to pace out my Delta, you know, Sky Lounge entries and it's really. Makes the experience a lot less satisfactory for me and opens the door for me to be less loyal in the future.
Zach Busekrus: A hundred percent. I think there are lots of big questions here that, that I need to be rested with. 
Steve Carran: Yeah. I feel like I've seen some hotels and get to get a little bit more creative with their loyalty and I, that has not been a big trend yet, and I'm gonna talk more about this later for my 2026 trend. But I think we're gonna see a lot more hotels get creative, not just points, but maybe some actual hyper-local experiences, maybe some amenities in their hotel as well. But like I said, I'm gonna talk about more about that in 2026 when we go there. 
Katie Cline: I'm excited to hear more about that, Steve, because loyalty is a big nut to crack, right? And I think Zach, to your point, customers were sold one thing and then Glenn, your experience is perfect right there. You expect one thing and when you're not having that delivered on, it's turning your head, it's making you think, should I go elsewhere? So it'll be an interesting thing to talk more about later in our discussion. I wanna jump over to David and hear what his top story or trend or development from the year was. 
David Millili: So this is a little outta left field, but my trend is this was, I believe the year of trade show fatigue, meaning there are so many events that have now been entered into our space that the trend I'm seeing is that nobody stays for the whole event. We were just at the hospitality show in Denver and I would say probably 20, 30 people either just went for the one day, left the Monday night, or stayed part of Tuesday, not the whole day, and left. And everybody was just kind of like. I'm just gonna get the blank outta here. I've been to HITEC, I've been to this show, I've been to that show.
So for me, I think we're kind of oversaturated with these events and trade shows and hospitality, and I think, not only the hoteliers, but especially the vendors, they just have fatigue on all these shows that happen throughout the year. 
Josiah Mackenzie: David, I love that. I wonder if you could unpack it a bit because, you know, I lead marketing at Actble. We do a lot of events. I have seen this year, uh, appetite for the hotels that we engage higher than ever for events in general. But I wonder if, is it trade shows specifically? Is it the format of the existing trade shows? Like, do you see an appetite for or an interest in events outside of trade, trade shows? How do you think about the broader space? 
David Millili: Yeah, so for me, I think it's just the fact that there are so many, some of them are very redundant with who's there and who the audience is. Sometimes it's. You know, there, there's events and I, I don't, I probably shouldn't say this, well, I won't even say the event.
There's some events that last three days, um, and you're like, do we really need three days of this? There's other events recently, you know, the hospitality show that started on a Sunday. And so we all work enough, we have a lot of, we already have so much stuff to do, take away from your family on a Sunday to show up, to be at the opening reception. I mean, it's just kind of inconsiderate, but they probably couldn't get the floor or the space that they needed. So for me, I think it's probably more on the vendor side because you want to be everywhere and you wanna get these hotels. If there's something in Miami, you think you're gonna get the Southeast crew, you're in Denver, you're gonna get, you know, west Coast people.
So I think it's just, there's so many of them and sometimes you just, you go and you're just like, this is the same panel, the same topics. So I'm either gonna walk the floor with the same vendors. And again, I think trade shows are great. I'm very pro trade shows, but I think there's just a little bit of fatigue 'cause there's so many of them and they're two full days maybe. I'm just finding the people I talk to, they can get everything they need to get done in one day. 
Katie Cline: I agree. David, I mean from the PR side of things too, you see a lot of the speaker will come in just for their session and then leave. And part of what the event is, billing is almost that network networking ability with people and then they're just coming in for their own thing and leaving. It's very siloed and like you said, a lot of fatigue around the same panels or the same people on panels, or even if the people are different, just like agreement. There's no like discourse, actually travel and leisure at their world's. Best event over the summer, they had an amazing panel on loyalty. And I think the reason I'm still thinking about it is because they were disagreeing on stage very respectfully, but it's rare. You don't see that very often. 
Zach Busekrus: Last thing I would say on this too, and this is an nod to you Katie and the team. I came to the Global Forum. Well, heck, she was only there for a day, so I was one of those people that you shouldn't be at an event. But one of the things I observed, which I loved, is because, you know, y'all are podcasters, journalists, uh, the, the sessions were so, so dynamic, whereas a lot of times you go to these shows, right, and it's somebody who's a moderator, they don't do this full time, they're not a podcaster full time.
They're not a journalist necessarily. And so they might be from the industry, they might be decent at asking questions, but, but you lack sort of like the story narrative architecture that I think folks like who do podcasts regularly and or who are, who are writing stories regularly, that's just part of who they are and, and how they ask questions and how they navigate conversations.
And so I actually thought that was one of the best conferences I've been to in, in recent years. Not because the content was directly applicable in, you know, always to what I do on a daily basis, but more so to the content was interesting, like it was entertaining, right? And I think that that's what you lose at a lot of these events.
Glenn Hausmann: Zach, I gotta agree with you on that one. You know, I know disagreements in Vogue all of a sudden, but I agree with you on this one because, uh, the problem is that panel positions are usually paid sponsorships, right? I understand everyone's gotta make money and stuff like that, but when you put up somebody there that has no business being a host or moderator, you wind up devaluing the entire session. And I would argue doing more harm for your overall business model in the long run than if you just partnered with great, uh, people like all of you are. You know, that's what I'm thinking. 
Katie Cline: I love it, Glenn. All right, let's move on to Steve. Let's hear what you think from 2025 top story trend development.
Steve Carran: Yeah, it's funny, we do a session once a month called Hospitality Hot Topics. What happened in the industry this past month? I felt like every month that we did this, we talked about a brand acquiring an independent hotel group. We had so many citizen, we got acquired, the standard got acquired.
So we're just seeing so many of these lifestyle boutique hotels being acquired by brands, and I think brands have finally realized that, hey, these guests want an experience. They don't just want that standard, you know, box of a hotel room with no design, doesn't feel like home, the bed's not comfortable, they really want that, you know, more homely feel and more experiences tied into their stay. So they're gobbling up independence, which, you know, I totally get it makes sense, but I don't think 2026 is gonna slow down with any independence getting acquired by brands at all. So I think what we see more of that in 2026, and definitely saw a lot of it this year.
David Millili: Yeah. And I think the one thing I've noticed, which is really interesting, um, I was just in Dallas at a Marriott, I think it was a autograph. I dunno which collection it was. But they're doing, what they're also doing is they're not sticking the brand in your face like they did in the past.
So they're getting these, they're starting to realize, and I was on a call with somebody from Hilton who was doing with their lifestyle brand and graduate, and they really kind of realized like, Hey, we can't really mess up the formula. Like we've gotta basically take this. We can't like have Marriott Bonvoy signs all over the place and Marriott in the rooms and things of that nature.
So it's like they want the guest and the hotel want the advantage of being a Marriott, but the guest doesn't want to feel like they're staying at your typical Marriotts. I think they've started to do a much better job of. Not really putting it in your face and trying making you feel like, okay, yeah, I booked in, I'm getting some loyalty points and, but you know, I'm getting a hotel that's not your standard cookie cutter hotel.
Zach Busekrus: And I think what's also happening is, you know, to, to give the flags some credit here, is they're getting a little bit more creative with their partnerships, right, you know, you see trail borne for example, right? And what they're doing this kind of four star product near national parks would, and you know, I can't talk super publicly about this, but they've shared a little bit about what their partnership looks like behind the scenes.
And I was just very impressed, quite frankly, that they were able to negotiate the kind of agreement that they were able to negotiate of getting benefits of, of Bonvoy, right? Without needing to, you know, quote unquote sell their soul. And so you, I think even what Mart's doing with like the outdoor collection, for example, is really interesting here. And so we'll see how these trends continue. But I think it's smart, and it can be very beneficial to many hotel operators. 
Josiah Mackenzie: I think there's a huge opportunity for independence now with my team, I've gone through some of the data, this has been a year of a lot of top line challenges and independence have had very strong performance on the top line relative to other segments.
A little behind luxury overall as a category, but across all chain skills of independence they've done well. And I think that speaks to the appetite that consumers today have for a different experience. And so it stands out, especially in a world where there's a lot of parts of hospitality struggling we have more data on that at hoteldata.com, but it's interesting to get into the numbers and see this isn't just a, a feeling or kind of a buzzword. We're kind of seeing this in the financial performance as well. 
Katie Cline: Hmm. I love that. Grounding it back in the data too, to actually say, this isn't just something that's making headlines, but it's actually making money as well. Great. Let's move over to Glenn.
Glenn Hausmann: Mine is gonna be two sides of the same coin over here. I'm gonna say the abject confusion around the implementation of artificial intelligence, AI stuff. And on the other side, the unearned confidence about how you're going to be able to be successful with AI, too many people are boasting, uh, certain things that I don't think they should be.
I think really we're at the part of that, at the adoption of a new technology like all other technologies where we have to kind of figure it out. And I think that's why it's the big story of this year. It's every conversation was dominated by this topic as we all are trying to figure out together how we're gonna be able to best leverage opportunity 'cause we all know going forward the operating environment's gonna get tough and we need this technological break. Breakthrough, can you continue to reduce costs up customer service and create better profitability? So that's mine. What do y'all think? 
Josiah Mackenzie: I don't know if you've had this experience, but I feel like a lot of the industry conferences I go to the sessions talking about AI are packed, staining room only. So there's a lot of appetite for that. And then, you know, we spoke to this earlier in the conversation, but just the things I'm hearing on stage are not that interesting. It really is years behind what other industries are doing. So I would love to see some groups, some individuals on panels, like talk about what you're experimenting with that is new and novel and most importantly, driving results.
I was at a marketing conference a couple months ago in San Francisco. A lot of kind of, you think about kind of marketing San Francisco ai, these would be at the leading edge, uh, you know, 2000 people in the room who's driving more revenue in your business with AI is like two hands go up, there is the potential to do this though.
If you look at kind of the commercial side of the business, if you look at kind of saving money and operations, there's potential to dis and I know there are people out there doing it. I'd just love to see more stories, more best practices shared. 
Glenn Hausmann: I gotta follow up with that Josiah 'cause you hit on a point that really frustrates me. And I see this at all conferences, and I don't think it's hospitality specific. I think it's mankind specific. And by that I mean we have lost the lack of critical thinking. And typically what I see is somebody says one thing, then everybody parrots that back as it is sacrosanct in the cocktail parties, in the vendor booze, wherever, instead of deeply questioning what's going on to find out what the truth is. So I've been fighting the good fight to keep critical thinking alive, but I'm scared I've lost. 
Josiah Mackenzie: But it's so important, Glenn 'cause I think like this is becomes more important in a world, more driven by AI, 'cause like this is what AI does. It just parrots back common knowledge, right? So if this is the way that we're operating, we become less and less valuable. Maybe parroting back common knowledge used to work at one point it's gonna matter less and less. 
Zach Busekrus: I also think like there's a lot to be said for good leadership in this moment, right? I think that, you know, there's depending on who you talk to, especially from a staffing perspective, there's, there's fear, there's trepidation around these tools, right?
And people when they talk about using AI might be using AI to write an email, right? And that's it. And that's their usage today. So I think there's a huge opportunity for leaders to step up to the play, to work alongside teams and not just command a general statement like, we need to be using AD to get more efficient, right?
But actually, working alongside staff to say, Hey, we wanna make your lives better. We wanna make your day better. Let's go through your day and let's talk day by day, hour by hour. What are the things that you're doing? And how can I help you do more of the things that you love, right? And reduce some of the things that maybe, maybe you could care less about. And so I think like, this is moment, this is a moment for leadership to really stand strong and whatnot. And the best leaders will get their teams excited about this usage about using AI and show them how to do it in a way that's meaningful for them, right? First and foremost, but also the business. And unfortunately, like the worst leaders will either say, you need to, we need to be using AI to be more efficient and or they just won't be having the conversation around AI at all. 
Katie Cline: Yeah, I like what you're saying too about not just saying that general statement, and this is really going back to what Glenn talked about too.
Now, look guys, you know, I come from a background as a publicist, so I love a talking point as much as anybody else, but I think consumers, and especially us in the industry, we're a bit over it. You can see through it now. So if you're just using these talking points of how you're using AI or how you're building brands and you're just using buzzword, buzzword, buzzword.
We're starting to say, yeah, but what does that actually mean? How does that actually come to life? And I like what you just said about using AI for an email, because I talk to chatGPT every day. Does that mean I'm an AI super user? Absolutely not. Because I was using it for very basic tasks 'cause that was all I understood how I could use.
And the other day I had this kind of slight breakthrough for myself where I was trying to learn a new software that I didn't know anything about. And I was able to take real time screenshots of what I was doing and say, yeah, but this is showing like this, or show me exactly how I need to do it in real time.
And even just that little step up, I was like, wait, I'm, I'm knocking on a whole new world of what AI can actually do for me in real time with learning. So I feel like that as an industry, we're in the infancy of understanding what this technology can do. And we're talking about it as if we're familiar with it.
Steve Carran: I think we need to really look at how AI is gonna enhance the hotel experience, not just build something because it's ai. And when we do that, let's look at the competition and if anybody else is doing their similar, something similar in the industry. There are so many people that I've talked to where it's like, this has never been done. Nobody else is doing that in the industry. And I'm like, I just talked to four people down the road from me that are doing the exact same thing. Maybe not the exact same process, but the outcome is gonna be the same. So I'm challenging people who are really into ai. Let's actually look, take a, take a deep look in how this is gonna actually help hoteliers, maybe automate processes, not necessarily replace people, but really help hoteliers be more efficient at their job.
And then let's look at the market, if anything out there is out there. I know it's tough. AI moves fast, but man, the amount of people I've heard, oh, this has never been done before and it's not out there. And I've heard the same people talk about it a few minutes later, has happened to me multiple times at trade shows and with other folks in this industry.
Katie Cline: All right, Josiah, do you wanna close out our 2025 lookback stories highlights, top developments?
Josiah Mackenzie: You're happy to. I think, I love this conversation on AI and I just to riff a little bit on what you shared there, Steve, it is funny 'cause I just, before this got off a call with our head of product at Actble, we were talking about ai, like where's this all going? And he said something that kind of stuck, stuck with me in the sense that there's, there's actually, if you think about it, it's not AI strategy, it's like product strategy. And I think, or it's business strategy. It's leadership strategy, it's hospitality strategy and yeah, he's the accelerant of that. I think Steve and others, I think your comments, you're getting at that, right?
It's like, don't look at this as a standalone thing like this is, you have to think, you know, what are the biggest problems to solve? And I'm excited. I think, I mean our industry has been challenged by a staffing shortages or turnover from executive leaders or, or property level leaders. And there could be an opportunity to level up the performance by enabling better decision making, faster decision making that makes better working environment, better guest experience.
So I'm excited to see where this goes, my biggest story of the year I think is how operators really came through to, uh, protect profits. And you might think, Hey, like, why do profits matter? I'm not, uh, an investor. Like, does this even matter? You know, we all love all the different elements of hospitality, but profits are what enable it. All right? Attracting, retaining, paying well, uh, to the great people in hospitality, investing in the infrastructure, the design, the amenities, the guest experience that takes money, right? And the hotel business is, is uh, uh, you know, a real estate business. It's an operating business that has to make money to succeed.
And so, I used to work for real estate investment company a couple years ago. And just coming outta COVID, there's sort of this phrase going around like, survive until 25, and then 25 starts and then it became like, survive 25. And here we're recording this at the end of, of 25. And it's interesting, like, again, looking at the data is.
You know, there was a big miss to expectations on the top line. People started the year saying, Hey, we're gonna deliver this across, you know, across the us across chain skills, and we saw misses when we were looking at the data. And I think, you know what happened though even though there's a top line, miss smart Operators were able to protect profits by controlling expenses carefully.
And doing it in a way that was actually really tricky. It's one thing just to slash costs, it's another thing to recognize, Hey, we have guests with Sky High expectations. We need to meet and exceed those. We have people that we've had this risk of turnover and it's hard to retain good people, right?
And they've been able to create good working environments while at the same time delivering, and protecting profits as much as as possible. So I would say if you think about the whole ecosystem from brands to investors, to operators is really those operators both on property teams and above property teams that were, uh, demonstrating leadership. They were demonstrating here's what it looks like to operate with excellence, to build a strong culture, to use technology, and all the tools in our toolkit to, to do that. But it's been really, really remarkable to, to see that, and I'm excited to see where this goes in the air head. 
David Millili: It's also been interesting for me, having run hotels that sometimes, they are worried about the profits and they forget about the guest experience. And there are things, as you know, Glenn was talking about, there are things that can be done. We talked about AI that can really not take away, and help the hotel, you know, continue to be profitable. So anyway, I think it's, I think what you said is right.
Katie Cline: Alright, that wraps up our look back at this year, 2025. I really enjoyed all of those stories. I think, uh, we all started to debate and, uh, get excited about some of the things we were talking about. So I'm really looking forward to what we're gonna talk about next, which is, as this year comes to a close, let's think about if we had a crystal ball, what do we think will shape the headlines of 2026? Glenn, let's start with you. 
Glenn Hausmann: So, the reason why I was so quiet after Josiah's profitability comment, because that's really what I wanna focus on in 2026. And I have been preaching and over and over again about this K shaped economy, the bifurcation of the haves and have nots. And I think it's really endangering not just the hospitality industry, but overall society as a whole.
And I think we're gonna see this really come to fruition sadly, over the next year, 'cause I have been very pessimistic about the overall state of the American economy and macroeconomic trends globally as well. So the super uber wealthy people are living it up and having a great experience. And that profitability outside luxury hotels and upper upscales is almost non-existent.
So I'm out there trying to share with people that we have to start thinking about it almost as two separate industries. Otherwise we're gonna, or unfortunately may go down the wrong path and make decisions because we think things are one way or the other couple of examples, I went to a Virtuoso event for next year $50,000 per person trips are up something like 20%.
I dunno if that's the exact number, something around that, right? But at the same time, we're living in a society where more people are buying subway sandwiches on Klarna and paying it off on time. And my fear, and I hope this is the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life, is saying that I'm really afraid that next year is gonna be a reckoning that we're not expecting.
But if we're smart, if we're sensible, if we focus on the issues that can help us retain that profitability, I think individually we could each have successes, but I think overall we're in for some hard times, but not like 2020. So it's gonna be easy to get through emotionally that way. 
Josiah Mackenzie: I mean, Glenn, it's really interesting and I feel like you're as dialed in as anybody into kind of what's happening and unfolding right now. And I think there's been reporting already on this, and I think, you know, kind of you have a perspective into where things can go. I do think that's gonna accelerate. It's interesting even looking at ultra luxury just as compared to luxury, and that is even accelerating faster. So it does seem the trend lines are going that way. I think, there's a lot of issues that brings up, I think, one silver lining or kind of a component of this, that if there is that continued separation, sometimes in luxury there are practices and things and innovations that can happen that can be applied elsewhere. I think, you know, kinda look across sectors that sometimes happens.
There's also where I think a world where in this ultra luxury sector that money would've been, uh, spent on other consumer goods or brands or fashion. And so in general, I'm optimistic about money moving into the world of hospitality. I think there's a lot of implications on exactly how does this play out for everyone? But if we can kind get more money moving from other sectors into hospitality, into travel there could be trickle on benefits that benefit others. 
Glenn Hausmann: Josiah, I think you're absolutely right. And one of the things that I've been preaching over the last 15 years or so is the shifting from a materialistic economy to an experiential economy. And now that's coming out of everybody's mouths all the time. So people in my opinion, will travel. I'm here in Las Vegas as we're recording this, and, uh, people are coming to see bands at Sphere. People are gonna be flying in to go to the Raiders game as we're, we're running this. But you know what I'm saying out there.
So I think there's a great opportunity plus now that I've been in this business 30 years, I've seen a number of cycles. And the one thing that always amazes me is just when we think we've reached our peak, we can't solve any problems. New technological breakthroughs come through that reset the deck and give us so much opportunity going forward. So while I'm very pessimistic, things like ai, that shift in societal culture to wanting to have experiences over things, I think is in the long run, gonna be the saving grace if hoteliers out there can play that strategy properly. 
David Millili: Yeah, and I think I don't wanna get political, but I think if you look at a hotel and you were to cut all these services, your guest wouldn't be happy. And I think when you look at the political landscape, what's happening in the country is there's cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. You talked about, you know, having to do a payment plan for a subway sandwich. I mean, that's where we're at. So I think that's where there's a fine line, what's going on in hospitality and what's going on in this country as far as cuts where people are trying to save money, and how is that really affecting the citizens or the guests in kind of a parallel, kind of strange world.
Glenn Hausmann: Yeah, I'm sitting in a city right now that I think is having trouble because of a death by a thousand fees, you know, so cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, and then all, you don't even, you think you're doing great and then all of a sudden you hit that tipping point and then everything suddenly changes and you're caught off guard.
Zach Busekrus: Yeah. I also wonder too, right, where the opportunity exists and I, I saw chase put out there as like Travel Trends report last week or the week before. And one of the things, uh, I discovered in this report is that I guess, uh, 2026 is the hundredth year anniversary of Route 66. And so like huge opportunity for, you know, road trips and what we know with travelers and, and just looking back through loads of historical data, people are, people hold onto their trips, right? They hold onto their travel. It might shift, they might skip Europe, they might skip, you know, Disneyland, right? Maybe they'll do a road trip in, in 2026. And so I think that that's a huge opportunity for operators, you know, with two star, three star, you know, product along Route 66, right? To get really thoughtful now on, hey, what is our game plan for the year, right?
How are we thinking through a marketing strategy for this year? What guests might we be able to track this year that we wouldn't, you know, be able to track otherwise, given all the macroeconomic effects that, that you just highlighted, Glnen. 
Steve Carran: Zach, I think you're a hundred percent right. One of the trends that kind of started this year was more local vacations.
People going on vacations within 50 miles of their house. So taking those longer weekends. I know we have the ultra luxury that are going to other countries on private jets doing all that, but people are gonna travel and stay in hotels regardless, you know? So I think those independent hotels, Josiah, like you said, great opportunity for maybe those smaller markets where people wanna go to a, a smaller, you know, city. I'm like Estes Park, that's close to me. You know, great, beautiful mountain town where they're not gonna be spending money going to the spa or on all these, you know, things. They're gonna be spending time in nature to save money, things like that. So I think everybody's gonna be traveling, but just, I agree with you and Zach as well, like a lot of opportunity here for maybe smaller markets and independences as well.
Katie Cline: Yeah, an opportunity for alternative accommodations too, outside of hotels, whether it be short-term rentals, glamping sites, et cetera. And I'm loving what you guys are saying about road trips because I have two young children and so road trips are kind of my jam right now. So I have been in the car more than I have ever been and still wanting to get that travel fixed just not necessarily wanting to change time zones right now with the little ones. But anyway, we're gonna move on to our next trend or prediction for 2026. Josiah, let's go over to you. 
Josiah Mackenzie: I'm gonna go out on a limb on this one because I love data, but what do they say if you're talking about data, then you're reporting on it versus predicting. So I'm gonna go out with something that has, has no data to support it. It's a feeling, but it's coming from some conversations and my observations over the course of this year? I think there's gonna be significant dislocation with regards to the workforce powered by AI. Some of it will be direct and some will be indirect.
I think in corporate America, there is a perception that if we cut, we can juice profits, which in a lot of cases we don't need to go down that, that path. But there is, this has unfolded. I think it will continue to unfold whether it is real or imagined. There is a sense of, hey, we can lay a lot of people off and then powered by technology. We're gonna do quite well. I think that is going to manifest as a lot more people working or wanting to work in the world of hospitality. If you look at it from a demographics perspective, the population that's probably most vulnerable is people early in their careers, people that you know, honestly are, are good candidates to work in hospitality.
But even in San Francisco, which is, uh, one of, if not the epicenter of AI, you know, I've had conversations with people that worked at technology companies and now working at the fire department or working at a restaurant, and you know, whether they think their job is at risk or they're just tired of it, there's an appetite to work in the world of hospitality.
I think that is a great thing. I think hospitality can become sort of this safe harbor for people who are dislocated or just burnt out and want more human to human interaction. I think in an increasingly AI driven world, we talked about this. I'm excited about AI. I think it could do really important and powerful things, but there's also a downside to consider and, uh, second and third order implications of what a more AI powered world could look like.
I think hospitality will be a beneficiary in more demand from a guest perspective. But from an employee perspective as well. And so I think we're gonna start to see some of this in 26. I think it's going to accelerate in the years ahead. I think that is, uh, a huge opportunity for hospitality, not only to, you know, staff, to a level that enables hotels and other hospitality businesses to provide good service, but to think more expansively about what can a hospitality business offer? Maybe there's other services that hotels haven't traditionally thought about. Maybe they become hubs of opportunity in their neighborhoods, or they become opportunities for, you know, connecting people. And so I think it is the rise of AI is a strong tailwind behind hospitality, both from an efficiency and profitability perspective, but just from a employee and guest demand perspective as well.
David Millili: Never thought about it this way, but we interviewed and have done some work with an AI, phone attendant that picks up answers to phone for the front desk in different areas. As we were talking, the way they positioned it was that front desk agent. Who doesn't have that AI call agent to pick up the phone is now trying to check people in the phone's ringing, putting them on hold, the stress level's going up.
Now there's two more people in line that person's on hold, somebody else calls the front desk and now that person, they, their whole perception of what it's like to work in hospitality is like, this sucks. I don't want to be here. I don't wanna be at the front desk. I don't want this person getting upset.
I see the people poking their head in line. And so that technology is something that, you know, actually might help that person stay in hospitality, enjoy their job, and then kind of move on and up in their career in the hotel, versus people being afraid that that technology took away the job of someone.
Katie Cline: So, it's also gonna allow that front desk associate to have a conversation with the people checking in and hear why they're in town or if it's their first time, and then maybe be able to do a surprise and delight that's really tailored to them because they had the two minutes to talk rather than balancing the phones like you were just talking about.
Steve Carran: Yeah, exactly. 
Katie Cline: All right, Steve, let's move over to you. 
Steve Carran: So I said we're gonna talk more about loyalty in 26. So Zach, I'm curious to hear your thoughts about this. You're the loyalty guy here. And Josiah, I'm gonna kind of go off what you just said. As hotels being hubs in the community, I think instead of seeing so many points given out, I think we're gonna see a lot more experiences and possibly tangible goods as well, hypothetically, if you're staying at a hotel and you know, your guest is a big gym rat, you see 'em in the gym. There are guests that stayed with you multiple times. Oh, we have an open 60 minute massage today. Hey, go get a massage after your workout today, you know that your guest is a big foodie.
Hey, why we have a se seat open for the chef's tasting tonight. Why don't you come do that instead, you know, somebody is at your hotel. You know, bleisure, that's been a big term we've talked about this year. We know they're there for work. Hey, why don't you go, uh, set up in our executive lounge today, uh, so you can work in peace and you don't have to be stuck in your hotel room.
Also, things like, cons we talked about on our podcast, how much revenue, uh, and how Taylor Swift stimulated economies when she would go to a city, oh, you're gonna a Taylor Swift concert. Guess what? I know you were talking to our concierge about that. Here's a free behind the meet and greet or skip the line or something like that.
I think we're just seeing, you know, the focus on experiences so much more. And it's kind of funny, I was talking to somebody about loyalty, and I don't wanna offend anybody here, but like they were saying, if you're only relying on points, that's more bribery than loyalty, somebody's just gonna come stay with you because of the points.
And we're seeing that now happening already brands being booked directly are being booked more than any other type of hotel, solely because of points. Now I think if we add in some kind of more tangible experiences into that loyalty as well, we're gonna see people, you know, staying at the same hotel and increase loyalty through that. Zach, what do you think about that? I'm putting you on the spot right now on it, but wanna hear your thoughts? 
Zach Busekrus: No, I always appreciate a good, a good tee up, Steve. I think you're a hundred percent right. Right. I think, and if that someone was Bashar Ali, he's a good friend, and if that was me, he often that sounds like a Bashar as I like to call him. I believe it, and I think you're, I think you're spot on. Right? And I think this goes back to what we were hashing out a little earlier, is what do, what is loyalty, right? What do consumers actually care about? If I'm an honors member, a Marriott member, a high member, right?
Am I actually loyal to any one of those brands? Right? And by the way, I actually am member of, you know, all of them. You guys probably are as well, right? To some varying status degrees. But I think you're asking a million dollar questions, Steve. And what I think about based off of everything we're just chatting about with respect to AI, is for the first time ever, right, we've talked about guest personalization, right?
For eons for decades, right? And the idea of offering a really coveted, uh, personalized experience and the reality of the situation is that's very hard to do. For your average operator outside of your VIPs, like it's hard enough to, to do it for your VIPs. We're now living in a world where with ai, you're able to make every guest your best guest, you're actually able to personalize at, at scale.
Right? So I can know that, you know, David likes to golf and, you know, Glenn likes to run in the morning and, and you know, Katie wants a spot away from the kids. I can know all those things, even if none of these folks have status with me. Right? And I think that there's this unlock that's happened with this, with this technology that actually, if applied correctly, enables the desire that I believe most hoteliers have, right? Which is to treat every guest like their best guest. So how that, how that translates to loyalty, Steve, is I think loyalty is going to, you know, be the carrot. I think points are gonna be the carrot, but the actual experience right around why you stay, why you move up with the brand, why you stay consistent, whether it be that property or, or properties that share a similar ethos and soul with that, with that property.
Will be because of the experience that you had. And that experience is never going to it, it's never been easier to deliver that sort of experience than that sort of tailored offering than it has, than, than, than it is today. And it's only gonna get, uh, better, better from here. I do think there is this broader question to, to wrestle with, which is why I think the Ryan Air Program failed. It's why I think Frontiers program of like unlimited flights for 2 99 a year, whatever it is, is likely to fail, is I think it's really hard to build like a paid kind of like premium membership program when you have like one core sku, right? Like, like I think Amazon works, right? Because like Prime Works because of the breadth and depth of offerings.
I get movies through Prime, I get free shipping through Prime. I get Whole Foods delivery through Prime, right? With Frontier, with Ryan Air, with any of these programs. I mean the product is an airplane seat, right? And, and oftentimes an airplane seat that I can't even book till 24 or 48 hours before, before check-in, right?
And I think. Consumers are just wary of those sorts of offerings. And so this is kind of a convoluted way of just saying that I think it's going to be hard to compel consumers to join new loyalty programs, to get people excited about new programs when the product isn't differentiated enough. So why I'm excited about, you know, the work that, that I'm doing now is if we can bring multiple product together, right?
And build a really exciting program there that tells the consumer that you can earn points, experiences, rewards through it, through a breadth and depth of product, I think that is the next frontier of loyalty. So anyways, that was way longer than anyone wanted it to be, but those are Zach unfiltered thoughts on the future of loyalty.
David Millili: Yeah, and I just wanna add onto that. I mean, I think, you know, for me, what I've learned, especially with American Airlines is really the points are fool fool's gold. They really are fool's gold. I mean, I was in Miami and I was gonna, I was coming home and I was like, oh. Let me see. I'll upgrade it and like, oh, you can upgrade for whatever, or one way from Miami to Phoenix was a hundred thousand miles to upgrade.
Zach Busekrus: Yeah. 
David Millili: And now what I love about American is I've been in Phoenix now for nine years. They've been running an exclusive credit card offer for nine years, and like, oh, 80,000 miles, you can, two of you can travel, blah, blah. And it's like, no, you can't. Like you where you go like you can't do it. Like I've tried, I've looked like they don't give you an easy way to figure out how you can use those 80,000 miles. I just feel like it's so phoenix to Vegas. That's about, uh, there you go, or upgrade to economy plus.
Steve Carran: Yeah, exactly. Anyway, so that, that's my 2 cents. I'm gonna say this and I said this last year, what I really want and what would create loyalty is a somebody to figure out technology. I'm Josiah. Here's how we use AI to help increase the guest experience here. I want to, when my flight lands. At 11:00 AM utilize ai. So the check-in correlates with my plane. That is what I want. And any hotel that does that, I'm saying it right here. I will be so loyal to you because I usually take the first flight outta Denver to get into a city and it's often that my room's not ready.
I would love to see it and I know people have tried to do it before. I don't think anybody's really succeeded. Maybe I'm wrong on this one, but as soon as people coordinate the flights to check-in times, I'm all in on that. Stay tuned, Steve Uhoh. Well, there we go. That's what I like to hear, Zach. 
Katie Cline: I Alright, let's move over to David.
David Millili: Alright, so my speaking of loyalty and flights, my flight was delayed from Dallas. Big surprise. So I got in really late. So stay, stay with me. 'cause this idea came to me late last night. So, you know, when you go to a buffet and you just, there's so much there and you're just like, and then you're just like, oh, I just really wish I would've had like a, a nice meal.
I would've chose exactly what I want. It would've kind of been tailored. Because all this stuff's not cutting it for me. I think there's gonna be a pushback on the AI buffet. And what I mean by that is that images, videos, LinkedIn, post articles, like it's so obvious that it's AI right now, that it's got no emotion.
No, I mean obviously it's got a human element, but you just see it. You see it on the post with the icons, or you see the dashes or you see the image. I'm guilty, I have a headshot. That's ai, but it's old. But I think there's just gonna, like Glenn said, doing it right, like using AI and doing it in the right way.
And even some of the things we're noticing is we've started doing, uh, through our media side of our, our podcast, we've been doing testimonials with the actual GM or director of sales or somebody at the property. And it just resonates so much more than those corporate videos with the actor or actress walking through that lobby with their suitcase.
And so for me, I think, look, I'm a naive AI. AI is not going anywhere. It's gonna continue to grow. But I think there's gonna be this little bit of pushback where people are gonna want that real experience, that real photo, that real article that somebody wrote, um, something without all the goddamn icons and emojis all over the thing.
Like, I think people are just gonna want that they're gonna want, especially in hospitality, they're gonna want to hear from people. They're not gonna want infographics. They're not gonna want these, you know, four page blogs. They're gonna want video and some video content and things of that nature, and just a little less of the AI stuff in certain places. Like I said, it's not going away, but we, I think we, especially in hospitality, we need to also address that people want the real stuff, not just the AI stuff. So that's my rant for the day. 
Josiah Mackenzie: I love it, David, and I feel like, uh, I know we're all podcasters and this is what we do all day. So peop our listeners might think, Hey, we're just patting ourselves on the back. I'm also writing checks, uh, to, to grow a business. And so I think I also see it from that perspective as well. The attention that each of us has the relationships, the insight we can provide. I think that's why each of us shows up every day and does, does the work that we're doing, right?
Because we fundamentally believe this is how people learn. This is what connects with people. We're not creating quote unquote content, right? We're helping people learn through conversation, through with trusted. Expert perspectives of people who have done it and that we can believe in. And that's why I'm very bullish, not only as a podcaster, but as a media buyer, as somebody growing a business. I know this works and I think this becomes increasingly important, and I think for all our listeners maybe that aren't podcasters, I think listening to, you know, the incredible shows that each of us are producing, this is a way to level up your career, level, up your business, right? I mean, there's just gonna be more and more, I think you're right David. This stuff's gonna accelerate. So make sure that you're tuning in, listening to voices that you can trust who have a track record of actually delivering results. 
Steve Carran: I think people just want more authenticity. We don't, we, we wanna know the real person. We don't wanna know the guy behind AI. Or when somebody posts and it's blatantly AI, it's like, I don't care what chat GPT says, I wanna know your perspective and I wanna know, I wanna see it in your thoughts, not running it through chat GPT, clean this up, shorten, you know, make it more politically correct. Like I wanna hear your thoughts, David. That's why I appreciate your rants authentic. And it's really you not a AI character. 
Katie Cline: It goes back to what we were talking about with trade shows too. Like if you think about people on the stage on a panel, you can tell who's just there parroting the briefing document, which again, love to the briefing document and who's there as the authentic self, who's there thinking about their 20, 30 years of experience and pulling in that realtime information and giving a perspective that no computer could jump out at you right now. We really just want that human element. 
David Millili: Yeah, you're right. And I think I will, I won't call it anybody, but we've all seen it. Like if you're on a panel and you, and I apologize if any of you had to do this, I don't think you have, but if you have to have notes when you're up on the panel, then you should not be on that panel. If you just can't talk and you just can't address the topics, then, and it's not offense and some people aren't comfortable, and I get it, some people get nervous, but it's kind of to Glen's point, like either shouldn't be there or shouldn't be there. Like you shouldn't be doing something you're not comfortable with or you shouldn't just be there. And I think what Glenn is getting at, like if you are gonna sponsor a panel, get the person who knows how to run the panel to get the most out of it, versus just taking somebody from the company who's never done it and you can just feel it's awkward. So again, I just think that it's that, you know, it's that same thing. It's like if you. Like, it's like going to New York City and eating at the Olive Garden, like, why the hell would you do that? Like, it just doesn't make any sense. 
Glenn Hausmann: David, that's one of my favorite things to make fun of is the line out in front of the Olive Garden in Times Square. 
David Millili: Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. I'm like, why would you do that? You're in New York City, you're going to Olive Garden. It doesn't make any sense anyway. 
Steve Carran: Well, according to Michael Scott Berros in Times Square does have the best pizza in the nation. 
Katie Cline: All right, Zach, let's move over to you. What are you predicting for 2026? 
Zach Busekrus: As painful as the Sonder Marriott Fallout was, and as you know, much of the internet as it consumed, at least in the hospitality space as it did, my big prediction is we haven't learned our lesson here, right? If you look back, right, this idea of the, you know, this lease arbitrage model of these, these master leases, uh, trying to brand a short-term rental asset flirting between the lines of short-term rentals and hotels. It's been done several times, you know, you know, the Guild didn't pan out as, as expected. Right? You had a lyric, you had something, you know, now, now this latest, uh, episode with, with Sonder, and I think that there's something that we're, and even go back further to WeWork, obviously it's different, but like the WeWork model, and yet, you know, Andreesen Horrowitz just dumped an additional hundreds of millions of dollars into Adam Newman's latest project flow, right?
So there is something that we're all obsessed with this idea of like branded, uh, short term midterm rentals. That, and so I, I don't think that this model of the, the master lease model is going away anytime soon. I still think, we'll, we'll see brands, like the merits and Hiltons of the world try to strike strategic partnerships with folks building in this space.
I think what the folks at Mint House are doing are, are, is, is kind of interesting. Their model's slightly different, but I've been a fan as a, as a guest, so. I don't think this model's going away. I do think that there's some, something fundamentally flawed with the model that we need to kind of figure out.
But my big prediction is we'll, we'll see the rise and fall of another sonder. We won't see the rise and fall in 2026, but we will very soon forget this and we'll see another rise and fall of another, of another company attempting to do what, what Sonder did. So that's my prediction. 
Josiah Mackenzie: I was just listening Zach to your excellent new podcast this week in hospitality. And I think Ben Wolf made the comment where a lot of this gets into the details, how the deals are structured. And I think for me, the one of the other takeaways of this whole experience is the kind of breadth of experience that's needed to execute a hospitality concept. Well, there's a lot of financial, you know, kind of business strategy, real estate, um, expertise that's required to pull this off. The kind of the guest facing elements are a component of it, but there's a lot of stuff underneath the surface that sometimes, you know, isn't thought about in the level of detail it needs to be. But it creates opportunity, I think, for people maybe from other industries with that level of expertise to come into hospitality, partner up with somebody who has great creative brand vision and, uh, bring this to life. I think there's a big opportunity there. 
Steve Carran: Yeah, I just think it's such a different model than a traditional hotel. Like you said, Zach, I worked with Mint House in the past and I got to stay as a guest recently, and I'm not gonna lie, that was one of my most enjoyable stays I have had at a hotel. We were in Denver for a week, and I'm sorry, I'm not a guy who wants to eat out every night. You know, they had our fridges and they had snacks set up for us, like we were stocked and ready to go for a few days. I loved that model. The space there, the rooms were great. So I'm, I'm curious, I think we still need somebody to figure it out. I think Mint House is, is on that track, but like you said, working with a brand on that two completely different business models.
David Millili: I was just gonna have real quick, and if you kinda read what some, a lot of the reasons why it didn't work is because they didn't have the foresight to plan out the integrations that were needed to make sure that it was, they were able to tap into the benefits of being part of the brand.
And to me that, as a former operator, but a tech guy for 25 years, it just blows my mind like, how did you not have that figured out before you did it? Yeah. Like you're trying to like, it's like, you know, the whole working on the plane or the car while it's driving, it's like, how, how could you have not figured that out and had a great plan? So anyway, so that was my 2 cents. 
Katie Cline: Yeah. I personally own three short-term rentals, so actually on paper. I feel like this should work. And Zach, I'm probably proving your point that I haven't learned the lesson still either. It's like you're in markets that are highly regulated around short-term rentals. So big win right there. Everything Steve just said about people wanting certain elements that you do get in short-term rentals, like a kitchen for example. But we all know with Airbnb, vrbo, it's really hyper dependent on who your host is and do they have any knowledge whatsoever of what hospitality is.
So the experience varies drastically. So in a way, to have somebody operating these branded rentals seems like it should be a slam dunk. And yet, as you've pointed out, Zach, it hasn't worked in the past. 
Zach Busekrus: Yeah, a hundred percent. And to be clear too, I'm super optimistic. I want it to work. I'm right there with Steve. I love that kind of a product, especially when you are staying for a, you know, a longer period of time. It also helps, I've got two young kids, myself, Katie, and. You know, it helps to make staying in a quote unquote hotel more, more doable with a family. There aren't always great short-term rentals like in New York City, right to choose from. So that this sort of model, I think is, is really attractive. The Mint House, by the way, on 70 Pine, for those of you who are in New York and haven't been, should check that out because I think that's like, that is the model. It, they've got an incredible Michelin star restaurant in the lobby floor. Obviously it's not, there's no direct relationship there, but as a guest it feels like it's just the restaurant in the, the lobby, they've got an incredible rooftop bar. So anyways, that, that model, that, that's a microcosm of how Zach at least would want this master lease model to work. 
Katie Cline: Well, Zach, I'm gonna stick with short-term rentals for my final prediction of our round table today for 2026. I am also thinking about branded short-term rentals, but in a slightly different way. So if you are familiar with the fine art photographer, grey Mallon, he's known for these gorgeous aerial beach photography. He also is, in my opinion, the king of brand extensions. He partners with brands like Arla Bar Brown, Janie, and Jack Rugg Bull.
He even has an UNO collection like the the actual Game uno. Um, and about a year ago he launched something called Gray Mallon Getaway House, and it is a short term rental, but it brings all of his brand extensions, his photography. Everything to life. It is absolutely stunning. It's in Montecito, California.
When you walk in, you feel like you are in gray mail's world. So I'm really interested to see more of that. I think we've seen that in the hotel space for a long time. We've seen branded hotel suites like the Eloise Suite at the Plaza or the Bentley Suite at the St. Regis, New York. But we haven't really started to see a lot of brands or even creators, influencers owning that piece of real estate or however it's done in, in the background to really immerse people into that world.
I think it becomes that kind of four walled influencer, something that a brand like Manoan talks a lot about, which has started to make short-term rentals actually shoppable. Because what better way to experience a couch or a coffee maker or a television is to like have the weekend at it with your friends. So that's something I'm interested to see more of in the space. 
Josiah Mackenzie: Katie, I think it's super insightful and it blows my mind how little this happens relative to how much it should happen. I think, you know, if we zoom out, attention is the most finite resource in the world, and the economy goes up and down.
You know, honestly, there's a lot of capital out there. There's a lot of talent out there. We don't have unlimited attention though. And so for anyone trying to grow anything, anyone trying to share an idea, attention is that most, uh, valuable resource and hospitality has an incredible opportunity to provide that immersive environment, to be exposed to a new brand, a new idea, a new product. And I expect this to be a tailwind that only accelerates next year in, in the years ahead. I think it's a great observation. 
David Millili: Yeah. And I would love to see more of Elise on that the short-term rental side. We were talking before we got on, on the air, more of that surprise and delight than surprise and disappoint, and what I mean by that is like when Steve and we went to the mint house. Like we weren't expecting. It was probably $10 worth of stuff, but it was like awesome. It's like, oh, we got bottled water, we got some snacks, we got a couple bananas. It was like, wow, this is great. Versus the surprise of, oh, there's not enough toilet paper.
There's not a choice in pillows. You know, we were the one I was at and I only, you know, I got pissed off at me on, on LinkedIn, but you know, like the pillow, there was no choice in pillows. Like the pillows were like that thick and it was just not comfortable. And so I just think part of that, I think some of the guidelines and just trying to help, um, maybe people get into it like you, Katie, where people get some sort of certification, but they get a little bit trained on how to learn some of that hospitality and things that they could be doing.
And just make it clear to the guests 'cause you would think I didn't like it. I loved it. I just didn't like the fact that I felt like I was running around trying to clean up with little kids and. All these people and trying to pack the car and all this stuff, and people are like, it doesn't take you an hour to clean. And I'm like, Nope. I'm packing. I'm trying to get the hell out. So anyway, but I hear you. 
Glenn Hausmann: Well, it's nice you guys got the water because, uh, I have to stay 50 nights at a particular hotel brand before they'll give me a couple of those, you know, good thing I don't have to drink much. 
David Millili: Well, the funniest thing, we stayed at a hotel and John, our producer, he felt bad because it was the, and I won't stay at a hotel, but they basically had free water that was over, like by the mini bar, but they had the water that was, that you paid for on the nightstand. And so I guess he didn't realize that experience. And he drank like a $7 bottle of water when there was two free bottles, like Right. He would've had just get up. But it's like, it's just little things like that where you're like, and this is a hotel. So again, I'll call it out when it's a hotel, but it's like, put the free water next to the bed and put the, they want the upgraded avion or whatever the hell it was put it over somewhere where they know they're paying for it. 
Katie Cline: All right guys. Well this was an absolute blast. Thank you all for taking the time and wishing everyone listening and watching a very happy, healthy, and dare I say it, hospitable holiday season. 
Glenn Hausmann: Happy holidays everybody. Thanks for doing this holidays, Katie