- You've gotta run all the processes
and deal with all the shareholder issues,
the various stakeholder issue.
Of course, you know, that's part of the day job.
But I think it's really dangerous for a CEO
when he loses sight
of what actually the company's trying to do.
- All too often, size becomes a disadvantage.
Outside, insurgents start to run circles around us.
Inside, the endless meetings and PowerPoint slides,
well, they start to destroy our souls.
What about those pesky customers?
Well, they feel more like a distraction
from our urgent meetings or change management seminars.
And of course, horizontal activities matter,
because that is where the benefits of scale come from,
but they're not enough.
We must also remain maniacally vertical.
We've got to keep our connection directly with our customers
and the frontline that serves them.
How?
Well, perhaps the answer lies,
I don't know, in courting plumbers, patching lightning,
or maybe even putting a man on the Moon.
(cheerful music)
I'm Jimmy Allen,
and this is the "Founder's Mentality: The CEO Sessions."
And today, we're speaking with David Haines.
He's CEO of the Flora Food Group.
His career spanned across founder-led companies like Mars,
fast tech startups like Vodafone in the early days,
and large companies like Koch.
He then moved into private equity-backed companies,
first serving as CEO of Grohe for almost a decade
before taking the helm at Flora.
Across industries and continents,
David has built brands by staying vertical,
connected to customers in the front line.
And that mindset is something that he's been working on,
well, since his teenage career as a cheesemaker.
- So I started my frontline belief, I suppose, pretty early.
When I was a young teenager living in Somerset,
I started working in supermarkets.
I worked on the shop floor of a factory
when I was a student making cheese in Ilminster.
And of course, in my early days in my career,
I was in sales and learned the power of talking to customers
and what I would call real people.
But I think the defining moments really came later,
you know, when I was in my mid-20s,
when I joined Mars, Incorporated
on the pet food side in Germany.
And I had the very, very good fortune
of being in a situation which was quite unique, right?
I joined in 1989,
and it was just as the Berlin Wall was coming down.
And so, suddenly, we had 17 million new consumers
that we had to market and sell our products to,
get distribution with.
Shops in East Germany were not a great big, large Walmart.
They were a little 50-square-meter, if you were lucky,
mom-and-pop by and large.
So they couldn't take the whole range.
And so there was no point in us doing stuff
that worked in the West Germany.
We had to do stuff that worked in East Germany.
And the only way you could do that was going over there
and talking to people, and all that to be organized,
we know which products we were gonna sell,
how are we gonna advertise?
I mean, people have been seen advertising for years,
I suppose, but how are we gonna focus our distribution,
get our sales forces there, get it all built?
So it was like very pioneering
to have suddenly this country.
You know, it had the same name,
I was about to say same language,
but it wasn't even exactly the same language,
and it's certainly a different cultural history.
So it was just, you know, through all of that.
And the other thing, right, was I was very fortunate
in those early days to meet the owners of Mars, Inc,
John Mars and Forrest Mars.
I remember presenting to John as a 29-year-old.
Candidly, I was very nervous. I mean, he was the owner
of one of the largest companies in the world.
Given that we turned the sales around of what we were doing,
my brand, which was called Chappi back in the day,
dog food, it went fine.
A few months later, John came back for another visit
and somehow asked him to go
for a walk through the car park with me.
And when I came back, my boss asked me,
"So what job did he offer you?"
And I don't know, we just got on.
And I think he also liked the, you know,
the enthusiastic frontline focus
of what we were trying to do with his friends.
- What's interesting about those stories
is we often sit in boardrooms
and talk about how our consumers experience our brands.
And then there's the reality of in the frontline,
the actual experience is very often driven
not by what the brand owner wants,
but what the stores wants,
the recommender in between, et cetera.
You must have taken that experience to Vodafone.
- Well, when I got hired by Julian Horn-Smith and Christian,
you know, that my task was, global brand director,
and my task was to create a global brand within three years.
And we went about it and we defined the positioning
and we worked out a vision of where we wanted to get to,
but we all had to do with intangible assets.
So suddenly we had to migrate these 250 brands
under the one Vodafone brand, right,
across basically all parts of the world.
And we had partner markets
and we had direct markets like here in Germany.
So we created a vision for the brand,
what we wanted the brand to stand for.
We thought about the tools, but of course,
you know, you had to change the name in the screen,
you had to change the service,
but you had to change the stores.
There were thousands of stores
branded other things across Europe,
and we had to think about things
like with the new phones that were coming out,
we had to put people in the stores
to get them to put five names of your friends in the phone
'cause it seems inconceivable today.
But back then, just getting your friends names
into the phone so you could talk with them spontaneously
wasn't available.
And Chris and Julian were inspired, I believe, in many ways
to bring in someone with consumer goods experience
to try and do this, to create this brand.
And we achieved what we wanted,
but we had some great tools, right?
We had a great simple idea.
Often the best marketing ideas,
or first of all, these global jobs,
you can only win with great ideas.
You don't win with great PowerPoint.
You have to have great ideas
based on a strong strategy and insight.
Ours was ask a simple human question.
How are you? How are you doing?
Because how you're doing
is the beginning of every conversation.
And that simple insight that we tried to then bring to life
through various, you know, advertising tools,
the Dandy Warhols, we did the music,
went on to do a number one,
we sponsored Formula One, sponsored Ferrari.
We tried to make our brand
the most relevant brand of the day.
And I think people would say back then it was,
we achieved our objective.
- I love this idea of relevance and the pride you took,
and I totally agree that at for its moment,
you know, at the beginning of the mobile industry,
Vodafone is probably the most relevant brand.
And so I just even love to go back to that one idea.
How did you get a retailer
to help a consumer put in five names in a mobile phone?
- The retailers all were those days interested
in selling handsets.
Their whole raison d'etre was to sell more handsets.
And so the idea of having more modern handsets,
and I don't know if you remember when we came up
with this concept called Vodafone live!
It was the first flip phone with a Sharp.
And we pointed out to these retailers, right,
the way you sell a new handset is to offer new services,
services that then did not exist.
And it may seem crazy today in 2025
that the service was to put in five names
so you could talk a bit more,
but everything has to start somewhere, right?
And it did start with that simple service.
So, you know, it was really exciting,
completely irrelevant in 2025.
So relevance to the consumer is all about the here and now.
As we say in the world of private equity,
we have to play the ball as it lies,
not how we'd like it to lie.
- If you're not the most relevant brand in the room,
you're invisible.
Incumbents lose to insurgents because PowerPoint slides
become more important than customers.
They lose their obsession with the full customer experience.
That's every retailer, every gatekeeper, every single hand
between you and the end customer.
What David did was simple. He brought data.
He showed the retailers
that if they wanted to sell more high margin handsets,
they needed to help consumers
use all the features on the phone.
One initiative, walk out talking.
Get the consumer to put the numbers
of friends and family in their phone, and guess what?
They call friends and family from their phone.
He wasn't just shifting boxes, he was creating experiences.
And guess what? David did it again with Vodafone live!
And again, you have to remember how long ago this was.
Where combining Vodafone's network
with a shiny new Sharp handset
and a suite of services transformed the mobile industry.
The result, one and a half million customers
in seven months, and Vodafone went
from just another mobile operator
to the most relevant brand in mobile.
And that's vertical focus.
It isn't just thinking about how your product
or ad leaves your office.
It is caring deeply about how it hits the customer.
Now in 2004, David entered the private equity arena,
this time as CEO of Grohe, and armed with a vertical mindset
and a frontline focus, he had a single goal,
revive that brand.
- Grohe was a great trademark available mainly in Europe,
but it was not a great brand.
It didn't have a brand essence really other than quality,
a little boring but reliable.
So that was a good platform off which we could build,
so my predecessors had done a good job.
And we created what we used to call real relevant innovation
that we thought consumers would pay a premium for
'cause our big danger was the Chinese and cheap imports,
which would copy PR designs very quickly.
As you are selling these products
primarily through what we would call today an influencer,
an influencer could be a plumber, you know.
You floors, it's broke, you're having a new bathroom,
the plumber will come around and recommend something,
or an architect if you're doing it
with an architect or an interior designer,
all three influencers.
We tried to come up with this concept
called Moments Of Truth.
What was the point that made us different, special,
and better than the alternative
expressed in a consumer friendly way?
So, for example, the core benefit as it turns out of Grohe
was the what they called the cartridge
in the middle of the tap,
which made it move very softly and very gently,
and by the way, also, when it's 30 years old.
This concept of SilkMove was born.
Another one that we had in our thermostats,
we had cold water run around the outside
so that you didn't scold yourself
on the hot water on the inside.
The moment of truth was called CoolTouch.
And there was a concept that suddenly, very simply
gave the plumber, the architect, the designer a reason
to recommend our products to the consumer.
And hey, yes, Grohe may be a little bit more expensive,
but in the end you're getting
a true relevant consumer benefit.
- The story of Grohe is amazing.
I wanna pause for a moment to give people context.
There was a massive influx of Chinese goods
selling often at, you know, 60, 40, 20% of the price
that a good Grohe product would sell.
And a lot of people from the outside were advising you,
you know, "Buddy, you're at the wrong end of this market."
It's about to commoditize, and the CEO has a choice.
I accept that or I fight it
and recommit to the differentiation, that's our product.
And I think Moments Of Truth is this great idea
that you introduce that said,
"Let's assert our right to be premium
and help the consumer understand why."
And I think it's so easy for CEOs at that moment
to give up on their category.
- I went there with the mission.
The private equities industry was renowned at the time
for the ability to cut costs.
But growth, I think it's fair
to say without offending anybody,
was not one of their strengths.
We wrote the manifesto to grow and cut costs,
and the only way we could grow was to reframe the brand,
give the consumer benefits
and reasons to pay the premium, Moments Of Truth,
and do that over time with great design.
And that's kind of what we did.
And by the way, the plumber in the end was easy to convince
because the plumber certainly in this
wasn't really interested in selling cheap Chinese stuff
because he or she knew six, nine, 12, 18 months later,
the consumer would be calling them back,
asking to break open their walls 'cause guess what?
Wasn't working or leaking.
And so actually in the end, there was a consumer insecurity
that we could, of course, reassure with a quality brand.
As I said, our predecessors did a good job
building a reputation for quality.
We brought design and Moments Of Truth
and reasons to believe into that.
And so we were able to build on that
and create this lifestyle brand which went truly global.
- What I love about David is that he's a straight shooter.
Real growth doesn't come from cutting costs,
it comes from finding those moments of truth
with the customer.
And someone else who knew this incredibly well
was Adrian Gore, Founder and Group CEO of Discovery.
In the early '90s when Discovery mostly
was focused on health insurance,
South Africa faced a crisis, a lack of doctors,
high levels of disease, and strict regulation.
Gore's mission was clear,
make people healthier and safeguard their lives.
But his master stroke was to flip the insurance model.
Rather than just covering illness, he set out to prevent it.
He launched Vitality,
a program that promotes healthier choices.
Its promise, if you get healthier
and make it cheaper for us to cover you,
we'll share the benefits.
Eat well, work out, get rewards.
This shared value model,
healthier customers, equal stronger profits,
became Discovery's growth engine, and it worked.
Discovery expanded beyond South Africa
and is now in more than 40 markets worldwide.
That's vertical orientation.
Study what your customers are doing
and find out new ways to help.
By the way, my producer's gonna kill me on this,
but I've gotta tell you guys a fun fact.
So about a decade ago, I was doing a founder's forum
in South Africa, and Adrian Gore from Discovery was there,
but so too is Robbie Brozin,
the legendary founder of Nando's.
And it turns out both of them
had gone to the same primary school at the same time
and took the same bus, bus number four.
And in my calculation,
that bus driver has created more founders
than any other bus driver on earth.
Come on, prove me wrong.
You know, the stories of Vodafone grow
and Discovery are about the same thing.
Understand your customer needs
and make something insanely relevant to them.
And that's not just a lesson for telecom or TAPs.
Our next guest, Iona Gaskell
who develops artist identities at Abubilla Music,
puts it even more starkly.
Before you can connect with fans,
you need to know exactly who you are.
It's a conversation.
At Vodafone, David began with a simple slogan,
how are you?
For Iona, the starting point's deeper, who are you?
- My role is head of artist voice as well as outreach.
So that is both working with artists
when we first sign them to help them
and us figure out who the hell they are as an artist.
And the first step of what we're trying to do
is build their, like, artist manifesto.
So we try and create a kind of keystone document
that articulates a mission statement and their values
and, you know, the characteristics
that feel most core to them,
that they want to communicate with the world,
and also the interesting frictions within that personality
that are actually what makes them unique.
- You're talking about what are conflicts inherent
with them, or what did you mean by that?
- In that initial discovery phase,
there is often a pattern emerges
that there are a few conflicts
and tensions within their character.
If as a label we came along and said,
well, you can't be both a sort of,
like, really thoughtful, intellectual activist artist
and also a goofy, playful nerd.
And we might say you have to pick one or the other,
smooth out those contradictions,
but in doing so, you flatten the surface
and you create something too smooth and impenetrable
that doesn't have the eccentricities and quirks
that actually make interesting people and interesting art.
- You know, in business we'd say,
where does the customer come
into all this brand development.
In your artist voice work, you know,
kind of where do the fans come in?
- Well, fans are obviously so important to artists,
but you can't make art via focus group.
What I think is really important
is starting with them figuring out so strongly who they are
and then what is the world
that they're trying to build around their art.
And it's into that world that we wanna invite people in
and find the people who are going to love it there.
It probably means
that there are gonna be other people who hate it.
You don't want to build an artist world
that everybody thinks is kind of fine
because that way you are not going
to really find your people that you really want
to be in dialogue with through the music that you're making.
- What has been your learning
once that artist actually starts creating music
and releasing it into that world?
- We have found that it tends to be
that you then need to start adjusting.
An example I can give is, an artist that I've worked with,
they had an idea of everything they put out
being incredibly highly curated and intentional
and kinda high production value, very glossy.
And so for the first set of releases,
that's what we went with.
We sort of planned those kinds of pieces of storytelling,
and they did okay,
but the thing that landed was a three minute video
that they just recorded on their phone
when they were kind of mad about something,
like they'd seen something that pissed them off
and they just recorded a reaction it
that through which their real character came through.
It was speaking to these topics
that they really felt were underrepresented,
but there was an immediacy in it
that is what really resonated with people.
So much work has to go into laying that groundwork.
Then it's kind of like catching lightning.
You cannot predict the moment
that the lightning bolt is going to strike.
You just have to be really prepared
so that when it happens you can respond
with your full authentic self.
And that is what will make that moment
be the catching lightning or the moment of truth.
That's what will make it be real.
- You know, it's that phrase again, moments of truth.
For Iona, it's when an artist's music
not only reaches the audience
but truly resonates with that audience.
And for David it's when a product proves why it's different,
why it's special, why it's better, and does so in a way
that the customer really understands.
Different worlds but same concept,
it's kind of the moment people get it.
But, you know, once you spark that moment,
the hardest act of leadership is keeping it alive
because your success means you grow,
and that grow means the pole of horizontal
starts taking you outside the window
where you're looking at customers
and back into those internal meetings,
back into the endless seminars.
So the question for David was,
how do you stay vertical, connected to the customer
when the pole of complexity
keeps dragging leadership sideways?
- I've always worked since I've been in leadership positions
with these manifestos,
and you've seen over the years manifestos that grow.
You've seen them for Flora Food Group, various versions.
What is a manifesto?
A manifesto tries to say, what is our true vision?
What is our purpose? What is our mission?
What are our annual targets? What are our values?
What are we good at? What are we not good at?
And what are our key imperatives broken down into actions?
I try and always ask the question,
what's the equivalent of the Kennedy put a man on the Moon
and bring him back safely by the end of the decade
when he went to NASA in 1963?
And so I've always tried to do that,
create a very clear purpose for our organizations,
and at the end, the consumer is always in the middle,
because what's business about?
It's about selling more stuff to more people more often
at the end of the day.
And so as a CEO, I think it's very important
that you stay on this vertical focus,
have the voice of your customer
in discussions that you're talking about.
And yes, of course, you've gotta run all the processes
and deal with all the shareholder issues,
the various stakeholder issues.
Of course, that's part of the day job.
But I think it's really dangerous for a CEO
when he loses sight
of what actually the companies are trying to do.
I pilgrimage over regularly to Bentonville in Arkansas
to talk to the guys at Walmart
or talk to the German retailers.
I was down in Cologne recently talking to Ava.
Yes, of course, I still do that
because I learn so much, right?
And we invite our customers
to our customer experience center
where we show them our culinary products
and we try and point out how relevant they are
and how this is not just a simple then tap company,
now margarine company.
What we're offering is solutions to problems
with Moments Of Truth, with relevant brands,
with relevant products, with relevant ideas.
And so there is a red thread through these manifestos
of relevance, purpose, vision, mission.
I'm a big believer in values.
And again, at Flora Food Group,
you know, we have three values,
performance, passion, and care.
Clearly we're a performance-driven organization,
but we're also a caring organization.
You know, we saw that how important that was
through COVID and the like.
And I think as you get older,
you learn a bit, right, hopefully.
When you hang around good people,
if you're not stupid, you do pick up the odd thing.
- What do you want the new 25-year-old David
to get from the manifesto?
- If I think back to the mid-1980s,
I was inspired by John Forrest Mars,
and in fact many of the other Mars leaders
with whom I'm still friends.
And why was I inspired?
I believed in what the company was trying to do,
I believed in their values,
I believed in the bigger picture.
And if my manifestos, our Flora Food Group manifestos
can deliver the same inspiration
with where the company's trying to go,
with what we're trying to do,
if I can inspire young men and women
to sign up and come with us on that journey
and they can find their home in that environment, right,
which is a performance-driven one.
And let's be clear about it.
A performance-driven organization is not for everybody.
And by the way, I'm also very clear about that.
It's not a judgment of someone
if they don't want to go for it,
but, you know, frankly, we like people
who wanna play the top of the champions league,
and if you don't want to, that's fine,
but please go and play somewhere else, that's okay.
- How do you connect with those young men and women
that you're trying to inspire?
What's the process by which you talk to them?
- Well, still I try and walk the talk, right?
I mean, I still visit shops
and I still do what is called a red is good call
where the people down in the organization
are invited with myself and our HR director.
Once every quarter, there's groups of eight
to tell us what they think
about the company that's not working.
We're not interested in the stuff that is working.
That's easy. But what would they improve?
What's their advice? And it's quite hard, right?
'Cause a lot of people don't wanna open up,
they don't wanna bring bad news.
But I mean, I'm very fortunate
to work with an outstanding chief financial officer
at Flora, Florence Naviner.
And she's always on the case and requesting,
"Hey, you know, bad news does not age well.
Let's get it out on the table.
We got a chance of fixing it."
And so we have all the formal stuff,
but I think the informal stuff
where you just talk to people is even more important.
By the way, having two kids, you know,
are in their early 30s and in their business world
doesn't do any harm either
and get their pretty honest feedback,
which they both love to give me frequently.
- I bet. Yeah.
- So stay connected, right, and stay humble.
There's one thing over the years I suppose
is to stay down to earth.
Stay humble, stay on the ground, talk to people,
stay normal, and create an environment
where people are okay to tell you the truth.
- So David, this vertical orientation,
this time that you're committing these red is good,
most CEOs will also say, "God, if I only had the time
and energy to do that stuff."
So what gets in the way of your vertical orientation?
What do you have to fight?
- You have to fight the calendar,
you know, where everyone's trying to get in the calendar
of all the various stakeholders that I'm involved with.
I mean, as you mentioned,
I've been CEO now in private equity finance organizations.
The shareholder management is a big part of it in PE,
setting expectations, reporting,
discussing issues, getting advice.
I'm also very fortunate I've got an outstanding chairman
and a gentleman called Sir Roger Carr,
a veteran of British industry.
There's the shareholder management,
there's the other stakeholders,
the organizational processes, this permanent reviews,
but they are all part of the day job.
But what I do is try and spend time,
I think you would call it deep work in Bain-speak,
thinking about how we stay true north
of what we're trying to do,
this vertical thing, consumer orientation.
And for that I often get accused
of being the optimist in the room, right?
But I think you have to in the CEO role,
where are we trying to go? What's our vision?
What are we gonna do in the next three months, six months?
But what are we gonna do in three years?
Because, you know, if I don't do that, then it won't happen
'cause everyone else is getting consumed
by delivering this week's, this month's,
next quarter's numbers, which is right by the way.
I mean, that's our job.
And we had a world global call only yesterday
with our top 100 leaders.
And there I was preaching, of course,
deliver our FCO 6 for 2025,
'cause now's the time, you have to remind everybody of that,
now is not the time for fancy vision stuff.
You know, there's also, let's be honest,
there's a time and a place for everything.
So in the end, what are the crown jewels
of an organization that I work in?
I always think there are two.
There's of course the brands
which you inherit in whatever state they are
and you try and leave whenever you leave
in a better state when you pass the baton.
But the older I get, the more you realize
it's actually all about the other crown jewel
as well the people.
And I know this is an old cliche, so forgive me for it.
Surround yourself with outstanding people.
And I have an optimistic disposition, thank God.
I didn't choose it. It kind of happened.
And I do think in these roles,
'cause they are, the other thing I would say, right,
these CEO roles, and I try and point it out at home,
they are seriously lonelier.
- Why is it lonely?
- You know, you're making tough decisions
that affect thousands of peoples lives at times.
In Grohe the restructuring
that we had to do when we walked in.
We had to let a lot of people go.
It was front page news in the German press
for the whole locust debate, you know.
It's pretty lonely when you death threats,
when you have a book written about you,
which is still published,
by the way, in Germany to have you killed.
That's pretty lonely.
When you're dealing with very deep personal issues
of your colleagues
that you know about in their personal lives.
Over the years together we've seen many tough situations,
whether it's health issues, personal issues, career issues,
and to stay focused and optimistic in the organization
when everyone's looking at you all the time
and looking not at you, but, you know, what you do,
what you say, how you act, how you behave.
You know, you're always on.
That's where you need to be surrounded by also at home
and in your personal life
hobbies, activities, and an infrastructure
that has nothing to do with your business card.
- I think this is the most underrated
yet vital trait of great leaders.
It's the courage to be authentic, to be vulnerable,
to talk about the things that no one else dares mention.
David said it. The CEO job can be lonely.
I mean, you know a lot of things you can't share.
There are a couple decisions that only you can make.
And everybody wants your energy,
but very few feel it's important to give you their energy.
You know, I love that David walks the talk.
It's his openness and honesty
that then can spark real adult conversations
in those red is good meetings
and it's what turns a manifesto,
which could so easily just be words on a wall,
into something people can live by.
And if you want more stories
of CEOs really telling it like it is,
check the link in our show notes.
And now back to David with some rapid fire questions.
What brings you energy?
- I love to build brands.
Take a brand, whatever state it's in, sort it out,
move it forward, and get it healthy.
I love it. It's a real kick.
- So what drains you of energy?
- Yeah, shareholders
who have what I call master of the universe-itis.
- I know what you're talking about.
Do you have energy vampires in your work?
- You always have some energy vampires,
and it's often difficult to find them,
but you gotta find them.
And I use a simple methodology,
what I call a Skill Will Matrix.
HR gang hate it 'cause they think it's far too simple,
but it's, you know, skill on the X-axis, will on the Y-axis,
and just plot where everybody is.
And clearly bottom left hand corner, frankly,
no point in having a long conversation,
deal with high skill, but low will serious conversation
and actually the most dangerous.
So you either need to get them on board or out.
Low skill, high will, train.
High skill, high will, let 'em loose.
- What's the best advice you've ever received?
- It's a simple one, given to me by a French,
very successful businessman when I was 28 years old
and was having my first child.
Take your family out for lunch every Sunday.
Your kids can't run off to the bedroom
when you try and have a conversation.
Your wife doesn't have to spend the morning
or you have to have done, have to spend the morning
in the kitchen cooking and you actually get some good food.
- Okay, let's recap some of our key takeaways
from today's episode.
- You don't win with great PowerPoint.
You have to have great ideas
based on a strong strategy and insight.
Ours was ask a simple human question. How are you?
That simple insight that we tried to then bring to life
through various, you know, advertising tools,
we tried to make our brand
the most relevant brand of the day.
- No matter how big the organization,
great leadership still comes down to one thing,
never losing sight of the customer.
I mean, do you measure your day in slides
or conversations with customers
and the people that serve them?
- The moment of truth was called CoolTouch.
And it was a concept that suddenly,
very simply gave the plumber, the architect, the designer
a reason to recommend our products to the consumer.
- You know, you've gotta win across the whole ecosystem.
Guess what?
Doesn't actually matter how ideas leave your office.
What matters is how they hit the customer.
- I've always tried to do that,
create a very clear purpose for our organizations.
And at the end, the consumer is always in the middle,
because what's business about?
It's about selling more stuff to more people more often
at the end of the day.
- To stay vertical, David keeps returning to the mission,
to the manifesto, to the relentless customer focus.
It's connection with the frontline,
but it's also how you act every day.
Are you humble? Are you normal?
And do you create an environment
where people are empowered to tell the truth?
You know, it's easy at the beginning.
Every new customer is a huge victory.
Every sale is a reason to celebrate.
But as our businesses scale,
these events aggregate into numbers.
The millions of conversations
that lead to millions of dollars in sales,
well, they happily live in spreadsheets
and stop echoing in our hallways.
You know, your success is the result of you being relevant,
of being edgy, of mattering to the customer
more than any other offer.
But it's that very success which creates complacency
and a slow drift towards irrelevancy.
So how does a company keep its edge?
And how do you find the energy to stay relevant
year after year after year?
Well, in our next episode, we're gonna talk to Pedro Arnt.
He's CEO of dLocal and former CFO of Mercado Libre.
And he's gonna be talking to us about what it means
to stay relevant through a period of hypergrowth.
So we'll see you in the next episode,
and until then, stay curious.
(upbeat music)