WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:12.080 Music. 00:00:11.922 --> 00:00:15.722 Podcast, where we turn the volume up on faith and kingdom living. 00:00:15.962 --> 00:00:18.922 Today, we're diving into one of the most debated questions in the Christian 00:00:18.922 --> 00:00:21.342 faith, once saved, always saved. 00:00:21.622 --> 00:00:24.262 In other words, if someone has put their faith in Jesus, can they ever lose 00:00:24.262 --> 00:00:27.242 their salvation? Are they secure in God's grace forever? 00:00:27.522 --> 00:00:31.322 Some find great comfort in the idea of eternal security, while others point 00:00:31.322 --> 00:00:33.542 to passages in scripture that warn about falling away. 00:00:33.762 --> 00:00:36.562 So in today's episode, we're going to take a look at both sides of the discussion, 00:00:36.982 --> 00:00:39.762 walk through some key scriptures, and ask the question, and what does the Bible 00:00:39.762 --> 00:00:43.722 actually teach about the security of our salvation. 00:00:44.342 --> 00:00:47.522 So without further ado, let's get into it. 00:00:48.542 --> 00:00:51.582 What's happening, dog? Oh, man, what's going on? 00:00:52.022 --> 00:00:56.142 Just chilling. Dude, I tell you what, this morning when I got up, 00:00:56.862 --> 00:01:04.322 the cool crispness of the air, fall is near. It is coming down the home stretch. 00:01:04.542 --> 00:01:07.382 We're rounding third, baby. It was fabulous. I loved it. Yeah, 00:01:07.502 --> 00:01:11.602 Jess had the windows open and the screen door open. Yeah. 00:01:11.962 --> 00:01:15.722 Yeah, fall is my favorite time of year. You know what else fall is? 00:01:16.082 --> 00:01:18.562 Football season? Football season. Holler! 00:01:19.842 --> 00:01:23.622 Hey, we're not biased on the podcast. Who are we kidding? Yes, we are. 00:01:23.782 --> 00:01:26.702 And the commanders finally inked their deal with Terry McLaurin. 00:01:26.722 --> 00:01:29.442 Terry McLaurin. Which, I mean, you know, is good. 00:01:29.582 --> 00:01:31.682 I'm just glad it's over. Let's move on now. Yeah, thank goodness. 00:01:31.682 --> 00:01:32.762 I'm tired of talking about it. My goodness. 00:01:32.962 --> 00:01:35.882 Yeah, now we can quit hearing everybody talk about it. Speaking of football. All the time. 00:01:36.482 --> 00:01:39.642 Fantasy Draft is this Thursday. Do we need any more teams or are we good? 00:01:39.742 --> 00:01:41.042 I think we still need like one team. 00:01:41.302 --> 00:01:43.882 I think we need like one team. One team. So let's get on. We got to get this 00:01:43.882 --> 00:01:46.962 out so we can get somebody signed up. Let's get on it. 00:01:47.262 --> 00:01:52.542 The winner will receive a Life on 11 podcast swag bag and the opportunity to come on the podcast. 00:01:52.782 --> 00:01:55.902 Oh, yes. If they want. Do they get to pick the topic too? I mean, 00:01:56.002 --> 00:01:57.422 I'm down with that. That could be interesting. I'm down with that. 00:01:57.462 --> 00:01:58.382 Let's throw that out there. All right. 00:01:58.622 --> 00:02:00.802 I think I picked the topic. Does that mean we purposely have to tank? 00:02:00.982 --> 00:02:04.222 So we don't- Absolutely not. I don't tank for nobody. Oh, okay. 00:02:04.222 --> 00:02:06.102 I don't even take for my kids. Whoa. 00:02:06.402 --> 00:02:09.362 This ain't a participation trophy kind of household. Okay. I like it. 00:02:09.422 --> 00:02:12.602 I dig it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Get Doug. Did you have a good week? 00:02:13.245 --> 00:02:21.865 Yeah, it's been a good weekend and went to another one of my fall favorites, fall baseball. 00:02:22.645 --> 00:02:26.545 It's pretty exciting. That means the playoffs are near. Who'd you go see? 00:02:26.885 --> 00:02:30.665 We went and saw the Orioles versus the Astros. 00:02:31.285 --> 00:02:35.445 Sick invite. Yep, yep. No, we had a really good time with some friends from 00:02:35.445 --> 00:02:38.145 church who were big Astros fans. 00:02:38.585 --> 00:02:42.405 It was a great game, though, but the Astros did get the W over the Orioles. 00:02:42.405 --> 00:02:44.725 Nine, I think it was nine to eight. All right. 00:02:44.945 --> 00:02:47.225 Most people are getting the dub over the Orioles this year. 00:02:47.485 --> 00:02:52.645 I mean, yeah, that's true. But let me just say, I didn't get invited. 00:02:53.085 --> 00:02:58.885 No. We put out a podcast last week about friendships, about homies, about dogs. 00:02:59.165 --> 00:03:03.865 We also talked about how we needed some counseling during that same podcast. 00:03:04.085 --> 00:03:06.525 Remember? I'm just saying. I'm just saying. 00:03:07.885 --> 00:03:11.625 I must have missed my invite to the baseball game. It's in the mail. 00:03:12.225 --> 00:03:16.145 Oh, it's in the mail. It's in the mail. Okay. Yeah, the check's in the mail, you know. 00:03:16.705 --> 00:03:19.885 Yeah. It's in the mail. I'll believe that. What about you? What'd you get into? 00:03:20.065 --> 00:03:20.865 We went to Kings Dominion. 00:03:21.385 --> 00:03:24.945 Huh. Second invite. You were at a baseball game. You didn't. 00:03:25.625 --> 00:03:28.865 Okay, yeah, you did know I was going to be at baseball. I knew exactly where you were. 00:03:30.165 --> 00:03:33.205 We went to Kings Dominion, and we're quickly reminded why we never go to Kings 00:03:33.205 --> 00:03:35.885 Dominion on a Saturday. Oh, I'm sure. Oh, man. 00:03:36.785 --> 00:03:39.125 We had a great day at church on Sunday. I thought church was great. 00:03:39.445 --> 00:03:42.605 Church was great. Church was great on Sunday. It was wonderful, wonderful. 00:03:42.865 --> 00:03:48.345 Had a good time, had a good time. And then, you know, we got together with some 00:03:48.345 --> 00:03:49.965 friends Sunday evening and watched a movie. 00:03:50.285 --> 00:03:54.725 Oh, yeah. So that was fun. That was a good time. And I've been working pretty 00:03:54.725 --> 00:03:56.925 hard trying to get this, trying to get the Lord's lair back in order. 00:03:57.025 --> 00:03:58.825 I'll tell you what, it's really coming together. 00:03:59.025 --> 00:04:02.645 It's coming together. For sure. It looks like a complete demolition zone. I mean, no, no, no. 00:04:02.665 --> 00:04:06.905 It doesn't look like a demolition zone. And it just looks like some construction 00:04:06.905 --> 00:04:11.325 has been taking place, but it looks like it's nearing completion. 00:04:11.465 --> 00:04:14.065 I'm going to say, I think I might have it done by the weekend. 00:04:14.465 --> 00:04:18.565 Okay. If nothing crazy pops off, I think by the end of this weekend, I'll be done. 00:04:18.825 --> 00:04:23.585 Does that mean week one, commanders and giants? 00:04:23.925 --> 00:04:26.685 Does that mean it's happening right here? I mean, it could be. 00:04:26.785 --> 00:04:28.385 Is that what you're telling me? I mean, let's do it. 00:04:28.745 --> 00:04:32.305 I find no excuse for it not to be. Am I inviting myself? You just did. 00:04:32.465 --> 00:04:34.405 And you're always invited here. That's right. The door is always open. 00:04:34.985 --> 00:04:38.405 That's true. Whether you're in here or not. That is true. I can come in. 00:04:38.605 --> 00:04:40.345 That is true. Okay. All right. Cool. Awesome. 00:04:40.925 --> 00:04:44.065 And hey, anybody else who wants to come now, you know that we're going to be watching the game here. 00:04:44.245 --> 00:04:47.705 So go listen to the podcast. You want to come over and be a part of the first 00:04:47.705 --> 00:04:50.685 football game in the expanded Lord's Lair, then just let us know. 00:04:51.271 --> 00:04:54.271 As long as you're not a Giants fan. Yeah, no Giants fans. Yeah, no Giants fans. 00:04:54.951 --> 00:04:59.291 Do I know any Giants fans? I don't. I mean, I know one Giants fan. 00:04:59.291 --> 00:05:01.331 I was about to say, I feel like Giants fans are kind of like Sasquatch. 00:05:01.451 --> 00:05:03.871 Like, you talk about them, but I've never actually seen one. 00:05:04.151 --> 00:05:09.851 I mean, for the longest time, most Redskins slash Commanders fans didn't really 00:05:09.851 --> 00:05:13.971 want people to know necessarily because they were kind of. Absolutely. 00:05:14.431 --> 00:05:17.631 Yeah. Absolutely. Wearing the bags over their face. Yeah, I actually had a few 00:05:17.631 --> 00:05:19.991 hats that were undercover Commanders hats. Yeah. 00:05:20.951 --> 00:05:24.471 You'd have to anyway so yeah so jeremy 00:05:24.471 --> 00:05:27.751 we're talking about something pretty heavy tonight we definitely are 00:05:27.751 --> 00:05:30.211 talking about something pretty heavy tonight we're talking about one saved always 00:05:30.211 --> 00:05:36.011 saved yes man that's a that can be a hot button absolutely it can be there's 00:05:36.011 --> 00:05:39.431 lots of opinions on it lots of thoughts lots of thoughts yep and we are always 00:05:39.431 --> 00:05:43.431 open to thoughts yep and so we're gonna we're gonna kind of bat this thing around 00:05:43.431 --> 00:05:45.751 between the two of us and some scriptures and things like that. 00:05:46.451 --> 00:05:50.111 And then as always, I invite you all as listeners, if you have thoughts or reflections 00:05:50.111 --> 00:05:52.331 or ideas or, hey, if you just want to tell us that we're wrong, 00:05:53.011 --> 00:05:54.411 you can go ahead and reach out. 00:05:54.811 --> 00:05:58.151 Knock yourself out. Knock yourself out. I'm not afraid to be wrong. Yep. You know? 00:05:58.751 --> 00:06:02.631 I'm not either. No, no. So yeah. So once saved, always saved. 00:06:04.371 --> 00:06:05.171 What's that mean to you? 00:06:08.231 --> 00:06:13.671 So for me, the thought of once saved, always saved, let me start by saying growing 00:06:13.671 --> 00:06:21.251 up, So once saved, always saved was, was never part of the equation in the church I grew up in. 00:06:21.451 --> 00:06:26.631 It was like, I've talked previously about the fear aspect. Absolutely. 00:06:26.971 --> 00:06:33.991 So it was more like the fear was more the driving factor, the fear of hell. 00:06:34.691 --> 00:06:40.131 There wasn't like once you get saved, you don't have to worry anymore. 00:06:40.691 --> 00:06:44.071 It was once you get saved, you got to keep doing all the things. 00:06:44.411 --> 00:06:48.031 So there was still that level of fear that you keep doing the right thing. 00:06:48.391 --> 00:06:52.451 So there was no once saved, always saved. That was never even talked about. 00:06:52.571 --> 00:06:54.971 I never really even thought about it until I was older. 00:06:55.591 --> 00:07:01.671 So personally, I mean, that's where I land. I don't subscribe necessarily to 00:07:01.671 --> 00:07:03.031 once saved, always saved. 00:07:03.191 --> 00:07:06.051 I know there's lots of other thoughts that will bat around, but for me, 00:07:06.831 --> 00:07:11.991 once saved, always saved basically means you accept Christ as your Savior, 00:07:11.991 --> 00:07:16.751 and whatever happens to you through the rest of your life, no matter what you 00:07:16.751 --> 00:07:19.791 do, you're going to heaven. 00:07:20.331 --> 00:07:25.791 Cool. That's mine. There's no continued repentance. It just kind of. You're good. Yeah. 00:07:27.793 --> 00:07:31.093 Yeah, I think that that's pretty much to some varying degrees. 00:07:31.393 --> 00:07:34.853 I mean, there's varying degrees of it. Yeah, same way as the friendship thing. 00:07:34.933 --> 00:07:40.373 There's definitely a whole gamut of cards that can be played there. 00:07:40.473 --> 00:07:47.413 Or Calvinist reformist theology would say eternal security, which also coincidentally 00:07:47.413 --> 00:07:50.173 enough, I mean, really in some ways is related to predestination. 00:07:50.173 --> 00:07:53.153 If you're predestined to be saved, then there's nothing you're going to do about it. That's true. 00:07:54.053 --> 00:07:58.253 Especially from what I've experienced, I'm not an expert in Calvinism or Reformed 00:07:58.253 --> 00:08:02.833 theology, but I've studied enough of it to feel like those two things probably go together. 00:08:03.293 --> 00:08:10.273 Then you have more of an Arminian view that would say you can lose your salvation, 00:08:10.293 --> 00:08:17.413 which for the most part, you grew up Mennonite and me growing up Breda. 00:08:17.413 --> 00:08:24.153 There's a pietist theme that runs through Brethren in Midnight Theology, which is very, 00:08:24.473 --> 00:08:29.873 like, that pietism is probably the root of work, I don't want to say workspace 00:08:29.873 --> 00:08:33.133 salvation, but in a lot of pietist theology, 00:08:33.473 --> 00:08:37.133 workspace salvation is a real threat to salvation, 00:08:37.513 --> 00:08:40.153 eternal security, and things like that, because there is that, 00:08:40.253 --> 00:08:43.713 like, I actually used the scripture on Sunday, you know, work out your own salvation 00:08:43.713 --> 00:08:45.113 in fear and trembling, what does that mean? 00:08:45.113 --> 00:08:50.953 And so, yeah, I, like you, I didn't give, like, it was never really taught. 00:08:51.848 --> 00:08:54.928 That definitely was not taught yeah and so 00:08:54.928 --> 00:08:58.428 the first time i wrestled with it was at when when 00:08:58.428 --> 00:09:01.048 i went to liberty when i went to undergrad school oh okay that's the 00:09:01.048 --> 00:09:03.748 first time i really wrestled with the i mean like i had heard about it and we 00:09:03.748 --> 00:09:06.548 talked about it i was like the first time i actually had to wrestle with it 00:09:06.548 --> 00:09:13.468 a little bit and like what what does this mean and yeah i i like you i'm i do 00:09:13.468 --> 00:09:19.328 not support once saved always saved there are things about it like i think it's well we'll get into it. 00:09:19.408 --> 00:09:21.948 I think it's harder to lose our salvation than we think it is. 00:09:22.348 --> 00:09:26.528 I would agree with that. You know, I don't think like you sneeze and you lost it or something. 00:09:26.708 --> 00:09:32.588 Yeah, for sure. It would be a genuine defiance of Christ. 00:09:32.768 --> 00:09:36.868 Like you are against him. Yeah. So what would you do? 00:09:37.328 --> 00:09:40.008 What would you say? Because there are those people who would say, 00:09:40.108 --> 00:09:46.088 well, if you said you were a Christian and you backslid or you lost your salvation, 00:09:46.128 --> 00:09:48.028 you were never saved in the first place. Yeah. 00:09:48.168 --> 00:09:53.448 So that was a conversation I had with a pastor many, many years ago. 00:09:54.148 --> 00:10:03.288 I was working with the youth at another church, and the kids had a lot of questions about salvation. 00:10:03.648 --> 00:10:07.968 And, you know, they were hearing these things like, once you're saved, you're always saved. 00:10:08.148 --> 00:10:12.208 Like, you can't lose your salvation. Like, and I said, okay, well, here's how I feel. 00:10:12.688 --> 00:10:14.528 This is what, this is my opinion. 00:10:15.068 --> 00:10:19.048 Well, then the pastor happened to show up the same time that we were talking 00:10:19.048 --> 00:10:22.288 about this. And we were like, Hey, let's ask this guy. 00:10:23.208 --> 00:10:28.968 So, so we asked him and he, he was, he was more in the camp of, of what you just said. 00:10:30.251 --> 00:10:37.011 Where if someone backslides or says they were saved and then start going against 00:10:37.011 --> 00:10:39.931 Christ, then they weren't ever actually saved in the first place. 00:10:39.951 --> 00:10:49.011 And I have a very hard time with that because I believe that people can be saved, 00:10:49.131 --> 00:10:52.511 give their life to Christ, and through whatever, 00:10:53.531 --> 00:10:58.411 circumstance life throws at them, they then denounce their salvation. 00:10:58.411 --> 00:11:02.311 And I do believe that that can happen. 00:11:02.491 --> 00:11:05.311 And that's why I feel the way I do, because I think that could happen. 00:11:05.491 --> 00:11:09.871 So one of the ways, when I had to study this at Liberty, if I would have been 00:11:09.871 --> 00:11:12.511 forethought enough, I would have seen, I probably can't pull up the paper that 00:11:12.511 --> 00:11:13.631 I wrote because that was 20 years ago. 00:11:14.451 --> 00:11:18.871 But my kind of thesis in the paper that I had, or the project I had to do for 00:11:18.871 --> 00:11:23.571 this class was like, I don't believe you can lose your salvation because lose 00:11:23.571 --> 00:11:24.871 implies that it's accidental. 00:11:25.431 --> 00:11:28.531 Like if I lose something, I think I accidentally did something. 00:11:28.531 --> 00:11:33.211 Fair right like i lost my wallet i lost my car keys yeah i don't think you can 00:11:33.211 --> 00:11:37.351 lose your salvation i think you can forfeit your salvation okay i think that 00:11:37.351 --> 00:11:39.151 you can make conscious decisions. 00:11:39.871 --> 00:11:42.811 And walk away from the decision 00:11:42.811 --> 00:11:48.191 that you made but i don't think it's lost like oh i accidentally did that like 00:11:48.191 --> 00:11:52.151 i i think and so that's where i struggle with the whole idea of like you were 00:11:52.151 --> 00:11:56.911 never saved in the first place because i think you can have a transform a transformational 00:11:56.911 --> 00:12:00.411 moment with Jesus and you can, you can be saved and mean it with your whole heart. 00:12:00.771 --> 00:12:04.371 And man, life is, life's crappy sometimes. It absolutely is. 00:12:04.451 --> 00:12:07.611 And some people, you know, lose that footing. 00:12:08.131 --> 00:12:12.491 And so, I mean, I, I know, I mean, boy, you look at some of the, 00:12:12.651 --> 00:12:16.471 some of the, some of the folks that I know that, man, they, they know the truth 00:12:16.471 --> 00:12:20.471 and they walked away from it and, you know, you pray they come back. 00:12:20.931 --> 00:12:25.951 But again, that wasn't like that, that to me wasn't, it wasn't accidental. 00:12:25.951 --> 00:12:31.511 It was, they formed a life path that took them, right? 00:12:32.051 --> 00:12:35.611 I mean, yeah, kind of like how we talked about the unforgivable sin. 00:12:35.791 --> 00:12:40.251 You can't ever accidentally commit the unforgivable sin. Right. 00:12:40.431 --> 00:12:44.271 So the same thing, you can't ever accidentally lose your salvation. 00:12:44.271 --> 00:12:49.531 Because we all admit, even though we're saved and we're Christ followers. 00:12:50.471 --> 00:12:56.971 Sin is still in our DNA. Well, maybe not our DNA, but ever since sin— Spiritual, yeah. 00:12:57.551 --> 00:13:00.971 Sin is still part of our lives. 00:13:01.151 --> 00:13:07.311 We have to continually repent and try to be better, try to be more Christ-like. 00:13:08.052 --> 00:13:13.312 But because of the world around us, we are going to continue to fail. Right. 00:13:13.952 --> 00:13:19.312 Well, one of the passages that many people use for eternal security comes from John chapter 10. 00:13:19.812 --> 00:13:27.672 And it's Jesus talking about the sheep. And this is starting at verse 25 and going to verse 28. 00:13:27.992 --> 00:13:31.912 Jesus answered, I did tell you, but you did not believe. The works I did in 00:13:31.912 --> 00:13:35.172 my Father's name testify about me. But you don't believe because you are not my sheep. 00:13:35.292 --> 00:13:37.552 My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me. 00:13:37.552 --> 00:13:41.712 I give them eternal life and they shall never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. 00:13:42.272 --> 00:13:47.172 It's that snatch word that gets me, right? Like, I don't think someone can snatch 00:13:47.172 --> 00:13:50.132 you from the hands of Christ, but I think you can jump out. 00:13:50.612 --> 00:13:53.732 Like, I think you could make the conscious decision to say, you know what? 00:13:53.812 --> 00:13:55.992 I'm rejecting this truth. 00:13:56.132 --> 00:13:59.172 And I think we've seen, I've seen folks who have done that. 00:13:59.432 --> 00:14:04.052 And so, no, again, like, I don't think, like, I think when you are held in the 00:14:04.052 --> 00:14:07.872 palm of Christ, the only thing that can get you out of the pile of Christ is 00:14:07.872 --> 00:14:09.972 you. Is you. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. 00:14:10.572 --> 00:14:16.032 And, and we've, I've seen that, you know, I've been there. 00:14:16.152 --> 00:14:21.152 Like I've had moments in my life where I like the roughest parts of my life. 00:14:21.672 --> 00:14:23.532 It's not like I didn't know what I was doing. 00:14:24.432 --> 00:14:28.292 I knew, I knew that I was turning my back on Jesus, you know, 00:14:28.352 --> 00:14:31.792 and by God's grace, my life wasn't, you know, taken. 00:14:31.812 --> 00:14:36.472 So where I think if that would have happened, then I lost my salvation because 00:14:36.472 --> 00:14:37.992 I had walked away from Jesus. 00:14:38.772 --> 00:14:44.432 And by God's grace, you know, he found the lost sheep. He left 99 to find me. 00:14:44.592 --> 00:14:48.692 And here I sit because of it. But it's not like when I was doing that stuff, 00:14:48.832 --> 00:14:50.772 it wasn't like, oh, I didn't know any better. 00:14:50.912 --> 00:14:53.532 Oh, yes, you did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, you did. 00:14:54.092 --> 00:14:58.432 And you may not have walked away. Like you may not have publicly said, 00:14:58.432 --> 00:15:02.912 like I'm done with Jesus, but your life certainly. Yeah. 00:15:03.612 --> 00:15:06.812 Your life speaks for itself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:15:07.112 --> 00:15:11.892 What about Romans 8? Romans 8 is one of my favorite passages to share with people, 00:15:12.092 --> 00:15:13.972 especially like in the hospital and stuff like that, you know, 00:15:14.012 --> 00:15:17.092 neither height nor depth nor angels nor demons, powers, principalities, 00:15:17.212 --> 00:15:21.212 nothing on all the earth shall separate us from the love of Christ that's in 00:15:21.212 --> 00:15:23.752 Christ Jesus, from the love of God that's in Christ Jesus. 00:15:24.032 --> 00:15:27.732 Great scripture, powerful scripture. Does that talk about eternal security to you? 00:15:30.212 --> 00:15:36.872 I mean in a in a in a sense i guess it does because it kind of the same thing 00:15:36.872 --> 00:15:42.572 about snatching away it kind of gives you that same that same thought where 00:15:42.572 --> 00:15:46.212 oh man i just had this thought in my head this this is starting to happen to 00:15:46.212 --> 00:15:48.612 me more often this is not good my brain's not working. 00:15:50.075 --> 00:15:53.515 I don't know where I was going. Well, let me help. All right. Yeah, help me out. 00:15:54.955 --> 00:15:58.515 I still don't see how that has to do with salvation for me. Okay. 00:15:58.675 --> 00:16:01.155 And here's why. God loves everybody, period. 00:16:01.955 --> 00:16:05.615 True. So even, again, the unforgivable sin. 00:16:06.395 --> 00:16:11.555 If you commit blasphemy against God, it's unforgivable. But it doesn't say he stops loving you. 00:16:12.255 --> 00:16:17.295 Right? And so for me, like, this scripture just talks about the pursuing love 00:16:17.295 --> 00:16:21.295 of God, which will always pursue us. and it will always be around us. 00:16:22.455 --> 00:16:25.375 God loves people who aren't saved. Well, absolutely. 00:16:25.715 --> 00:16:28.415 And so- I mean, and we are called to love them as well. I mean, 00:16:28.455 --> 00:16:29.795 same thing. Absolutely. 00:16:30.035 --> 00:16:36.215 And so I can't see how Romans 8 follows to there because I think that God loves 00:16:36.215 --> 00:16:39.155 you because he loves you because he loves you because that's who God is. Yeah, okay. 00:16:39.435 --> 00:16:44.735 And so I can't find Romans 8 relating to eternal security or once saved, 00:16:44.775 --> 00:16:46.855 always saved because whether you're saved or you're not saved, 00:16:46.955 --> 00:16:49.555 God still loves you and he's always going to love you. there's nothing you're 00:16:49.555 --> 00:16:51.495 ever going to do. So that's just where I come out on it. 00:16:51.915 --> 00:16:57.955 Okay. Okay. Fair. Fair. I guess what I was, maybe what I was getting at, 00:16:58.055 --> 00:16:59.895 I had a thought from something earlier on. 00:17:02.115 --> 00:17:07.795 Salvation is not, you know, it's not anything that we earn, right? 00:17:08.295 --> 00:17:11.955 It's already given to us. All we have to do is accept it. 00:17:12.695 --> 00:17:18.915 So like a gift, when you receive a gift, the only other thing that you could 00:17:18.915 --> 00:17:20.155 do, you could give it away. 00:17:20.635 --> 00:17:26.235 You know what I mean? So I think that, and you know, you purposefully have to do that. 00:17:26.455 --> 00:17:30.735 You know that you're doing that. So that was the thought in my mind, 00:17:30.855 --> 00:17:35.895 thinking of it as a gift. You receive the gift, but then you give it away for 00:17:35.895 --> 00:17:38.275 whatever reason, whatever happened. 00:17:38.775 --> 00:17:43.035 That's the only way that you can lose salvation is giving it away. 00:17:43.675 --> 00:17:51.055 So if there is a scripture that I would say I think builds the best argument 00:17:51.055 --> 00:17:57.995 for eternal security, I would say it's Hebrews chapter 6, verses 4 to 6. 00:17:58.095 --> 00:18:00.655 If you're going to build this theology for me and get me to believe it, 00:18:00.715 --> 00:18:01.555 this is where it's going to start. 00:18:01.775 --> 00:18:07.235 Hebrews 6, starting at verse 4, it is impossible for those who have once been 00:18:07.235 --> 00:18:11.235 enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 00:18:11.475 --> 00:18:15.355 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming 00:18:15.355 --> 00:18:19.135 age, and who have fallen away to be brought back to repentance. 00:18:19.315 --> 00:18:26.835 To their loss, they are crucifying the son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 00:18:28.255 --> 00:18:34.275 That's the one that if you're going to ask me, you know, I'm going to get tripped 00:18:34.275 --> 00:18:36.495 up on one, that's one that I'm going to get tripped up on. 00:18:37.155 --> 00:18:39.335 What about that scripture? Like, what's that say to you? 00:18:40.299 --> 00:18:47.159 Yeah, that's, I mean, we almost have to go a little further back, 00:18:47.179 --> 00:18:49.879 but just specifically looking at that, 00:18:50.019 --> 00:18:56.319 I mean, obviously in the translation, it does say it is impossible for those 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:58.999 who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, 00:18:59.099 --> 00:19:00.099 who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 00:19:00.259 --> 00:19:05.359 and who have fallen away to be brought back. 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:08.239 So that to 00:19:08.239 --> 00:19:11.199 me almost makes it sound like you can 00:19:11.199 --> 00:19:15.219 fall away but you cannot be 00:19:15.219 --> 00:19:21.579 brought back is almost how that reads right right so if you versus once saved 00:19:21.579 --> 00:19:27.579 always saved it almost contradicts that in a little a little bit yeah yeah yeah 00:19:27.579 --> 00:19:34.299 and i think that goes back to that like so you can lose it And if you lose it, you never get it back. 00:19:34.679 --> 00:19:40.479 Yeah, that would almost be the argument you could come from here in my just 00:19:40.479 --> 00:19:43.719 short little review here. 00:19:44.459 --> 00:19:48.899 Right. And, I mean, I definitely, boy, if that was the case, 00:19:49.059 --> 00:19:53.299 then we would all be in trouble would be my thought. Like, I don't know about you. 00:19:53.579 --> 00:20:02.459 Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I think I was looking for this passage in this book. they. 00:20:04.265 --> 00:20:07.525 It talks about how it says they tasted the heavenly gift. 00:20:07.745 --> 00:20:13.185 That is, they didn't just sample the heavenly gift, but the word taste means to experience. 00:20:13.485 --> 00:20:15.285 The word taste is multifaceted. 00:20:15.865 --> 00:20:21.285 That if they experienced Jesus, if they tasted all that he has to offer, 00:20:21.445 --> 00:20:25.085 if they became partakers in the Holy Spirit, that is, they shared a partnership 00:20:25.085 --> 00:20:28.885 with the Holy Spirit and had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. 00:20:28.885 --> 00:20:34.405 If they did all those things, then they fall into apostasy, right? 00:20:34.485 --> 00:20:37.045 That's different. There's a difference in backsliding. 00:20:37.885 --> 00:20:42.025 And I think that is like, again, to me, people backslide. 00:20:42.165 --> 00:20:47.765 We all do it. We all have seasons of it. There's a difference in being a backslider 00:20:47.765 --> 00:20:50.245 and being an apostate, right? 00:20:50.245 --> 00:20:52.265 So an apostate is someone who literally 00:20:52.265 --> 00:20:58.385 believes falsehoods and practices deception and lies about Christ. 00:20:58.885 --> 00:21:03.765 Like, again, I don't think like apostasy is a choice that you make when confronted 00:21:03.765 --> 00:21:07.605 with the truth and confronted by your brothers and sisters in Christ. 00:21:07.665 --> 00:21:10.145 You still go down that path anyway. 00:21:10.585 --> 00:21:14.385 Sure. Okay. Right. Yeah. And so to me, that's what this is. 00:21:14.505 --> 00:21:17.605 Like, this isn't talking about who you backslid a little bit. 00:21:17.725 --> 00:21:21.885 Oh, you, you, you, you stopped going to church for six months or you did what it like. 00:21:22.005 --> 00:21:28.605 This is like you, you were following Jesus with everything you have and you just plain walked away. 00:21:28.885 --> 00:21:31.785 You have called God a liar to his face. 00:21:32.685 --> 00:21:36.905 Right. That to me is the difference here. And maybe that's what people are getting 00:21:36.905 --> 00:21:41.365 at when they say things like, well, if somebody said they were a Christian and 00:21:41.365 --> 00:21:45.045 now they lost their salvation, they weren't in the first place. 00:21:45.125 --> 00:21:46.145 Maybe that's what they're saying. 00:21:46.265 --> 00:21:51.705 Like maybe if they had experienced Jesus in the most transformative way, 00:21:51.945 --> 00:21:54.765 then they would have never gotten in the position to fall away. 00:21:54.765 --> 00:21:58.925 I still, I don't see that, but I guess that's maybe where that argument comes from. 00:21:59.385 --> 00:22:02.885 Yeah, it could be. You know, I was, I was reading a little, a little further, 00:22:03.285 --> 00:22:05.825 further through in this passage in Hebrews. 00:22:07.198 --> 00:22:12.218 So, when you get a little further down, when we speak like this, 00:22:12.298 --> 00:22:14.538 dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case, 00:22:14.718 --> 00:22:17.118 the things that have to do with salvation. 00:22:17.378 --> 00:22:20.118 God is not unjust. He will not forget your work and the love you have shown 00:22:20.118 --> 00:22:22.038 him and help people to continue with them. 00:22:23.058 --> 00:22:28.598 We want each of you to show the same diligence to the very end so that what 00:22:28.598 --> 00:22:30.318 you hope for may be fully realized. 00:22:30.318 --> 00:22:34.198 We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who, 00:22:34.318 --> 00:22:37.898 through faith and patience, inherit what has been promised. So this is more 00:22:37.898 --> 00:22:43.878 of like the make sure you're continuing to be diligent in your walk. Right. 00:22:44.178 --> 00:22:52.318 So I think it's more of like a warning and a guide more so than, yeah. 00:22:52.858 --> 00:23:00.218 And let's, again, like we are not debating whether or not God is able, right? Oh, yeah. 00:23:00.598 --> 00:23:03.738 God can do whatever he wants. Whatever he wants. Whenever he wants. 00:23:03.738 --> 00:23:09.198 And God's promises are always good, and they're always yes and amen, you know? 00:23:09.538 --> 00:23:16.798 So it's not that the possibility of losing salvation has nothing to do with 00:23:16.798 --> 00:23:18.198 God's word not being good enough. 00:23:18.458 --> 00:23:20.938 It's our own intentions. And I mean, over and over again in scripture, 00:23:21.118 --> 00:23:24.398 like, stand firm. You know, don't forget the calling that you've been called to. 00:23:24.718 --> 00:23:28.578 You know, take heart. Like, all these scriptures that tell us that we need to 00:23:28.578 --> 00:23:34.918 continue to walk these things out. Yeah, I mean, everything in Scripture that—, 00:23:35.834 --> 00:23:45.034 went wrong so to speak was because a person messed up absolutely like that like it's always human. 00:23:47.154 --> 00:23:52.754 Human disobedience or we are really good at messing stuff up yeah yeah we started 00:23:52.754 --> 00:23:57.974 we started day well we don't know what day it was but very very very early in 00:23:57.974 --> 00:24:01.854 the story it was very early in the story and we went into the first four chapters 00:24:01.854 --> 00:24:04.194 i can i can tell you that we didn't at four chapters in. 00:24:05.374 --> 00:24:08.874 So here, okay. And the other thing is, so here's my caution. 00:24:08.974 --> 00:24:13.634 And this is where I think, man, this, this gets really interesting because if 00:24:13.634 --> 00:24:16.874 you start saying once saved, always saved, do you know what I think it produces? 00:24:17.954 --> 00:24:23.314 Really lazy entitled Christians. Absolutely. And I think that's why this passage 00:24:23.314 --> 00:24:24.994 in Hebrews says what it does. Yeah. 00:24:25.454 --> 00:24:35.334 Yeah. Diligent. Because if I can't lose my salvation, why should I not do these things? Exactly. 00:24:35.654 --> 00:24:41.674 What is the point? And not necessarily like going off and sinning freely in 00:24:41.674 --> 00:24:47.894 whatever you choose, but even such as trying to bring others to Christ. 00:24:48.294 --> 00:24:51.434 You're like, yeah, you know, what's the point? I'm good. Like, 00:24:51.614 --> 00:24:55.274 why try to save anybody else? Well, I even think the first one. 00:24:55.714 --> 00:24:58.514 Like, I think that there are plenty of people who, like... You're right. 00:24:58.674 --> 00:25:03.794 There very well could be. I mean, but it can be even not that serious, 00:25:03.854 --> 00:25:04.974 so to speak. Oh, yeah, absolutely. 00:25:05.114 --> 00:25:07.454 Because, I mean, I've had those conversations with people where it's like, 00:25:07.834 --> 00:25:12.634 you know, what's the scripture talk about? Like, a good tree produces good fruit, right? 00:25:12.814 --> 00:25:16.994 And there are people where I'm like, hey, like, you know, we're missing you 00:25:16.994 --> 00:25:19.594 at church, or Christians shouldn't do this, or you're doing this. 00:25:19.594 --> 00:25:21.574 It's contrary to the word of God. Well, I'm saved. 00:25:22.254 --> 00:25:26.014 You're saved. Well, yeah, back in 1972, I went to, you know, 00:25:26.134 --> 00:25:29.954 the Big Tent Revival down in, you know, wherever, and I gave my life to the 00:25:29.954 --> 00:25:32.554 Lord, and I went to the altar, and I accept Jesus as my Lord. 00:25:32.594 --> 00:25:33.834 And I'm like, all right, then what happened? 00:25:34.646 --> 00:25:39.726 You know, like, seriously, I mean, because now you find them and they are sexually 00:25:39.726 --> 00:25:41.926 immoral and they are spiritually immoral. 00:25:42.126 --> 00:25:45.346 And you're right. But they point back to this thing. They're like, well, I'm I'm saved. 00:25:45.526 --> 00:25:50.546 And you're like, you know, maybe you maybe you were maybe you are. 00:25:50.626 --> 00:25:54.686 I don't know. But I do know that it talks about keeping up with the fruits of 00:25:54.686 --> 00:25:58.846 repentance, keeping up with the work of repentance and that your life should 00:25:58.846 --> 00:26:00.106 reflect that at some level. 00:26:00.106 --> 00:26:04.786 And so I do think that, you know, it can be, I talked about this in my sermon 00:26:04.786 --> 00:26:07.066 a little bit on Sunday, like salvation is a gift. 00:26:07.406 --> 00:26:10.726 Yes. And there is absolutely nothing you can do to earn the gift. 00:26:11.206 --> 00:26:14.806 Correct. But once you get the gift, you are supposed to use it. 00:26:15.286 --> 00:26:19.326 Correct. It is something that is supposed to produce action in your life. 00:26:19.626 --> 00:26:24.006 And that's where I think the once saved, always saved thing can be a little tricky. 00:26:24.746 --> 00:26:29.846 And are there people who maybe said yes to Jesus? And I will also say this, 00:26:29.946 --> 00:26:34.166 when we get to heaven, there will be people there that we will scratch our heads 00:26:34.166 --> 00:26:35.846 and be like, I did not see that coming. 00:26:36.166 --> 00:26:39.146 Did not see that. Yes. Right. But the same will also be true. 00:26:39.466 --> 00:26:42.806 Yes. And there'll be people out there. Excuse me. The opposite will also be 00:26:42.806 --> 00:26:45.266 true. Yeah. We're so-and-so. Yeah. 00:26:46.506 --> 00:26:50.386 You know? But seriously, like, so I don't want to make it sound like we are 00:26:50.386 --> 00:26:55.346 the judgment keepers of, that's God's to do. No, that's 100% God's job. That is God's job. 00:26:55.446 --> 00:26:59.146 We got nothing in that. But if I were to come across somebody and they were 00:26:59.146 --> 00:27:02.666 like, oh, it's okay, I said this prayer 30 years ago, so I'm good, 00:27:02.746 --> 00:27:07.466 I would be like, but what is that producing in your life, right? 00:27:07.686 --> 00:27:10.686 Because there's the second, like, there's two questions, right? 00:27:10.826 --> 00:27:15.306 The first question is, is your name written in the Lamb's Book of Life? 00:27:15.586 --> 00:27:20.086 The second question is, what did you do with what I gave you? Yeah. 00:27:20.746 --> 00:27:28.186 Right? And so people forget, like there's a second question and we are given rewards and crowns. 00:27:28.266 --> 00:27:34.086 And so let's not get those two things confused because you can be saved and 00:27:34.086 --> 00:27:36.826 not be working it out and still get to heaven. 00:27:37.826 --> 00:27:44.106 You can also think that you're saved and have walked away, right? 00:27:44.366 --> 00:27:47.406 And get there and realize, I mean, what did Jesus say? for I 00:27:47.406 --> 00:27:50.426 will tell you verily verily some will say unto me but Lord 00:27:50.426 --> 00:27:53.326 we did all this stuff in your name and I will say depart from 00:27:53.326 --> 00:27:55.986 me for I never knew you I mean those are people who are 00:27:55.986 --> 00:27:59.406 working in the name of Jesus they're not just showing up to church we cast out 00:27:59.406 --> 00:28:02.426 demons we did miracles we did all this stuff and Jesus like and thank you for 00:28:02.426 --> 00:28:08.666 your service but depart from me I never knew you that to me talks about they 00:28:08.666 --> 00:28:13.526 knew Jesus enough to yeah for his spirit to be using them in some way, right? 00:28:14.546 --> 00:28:18.286 True. Tricky, dude. That is tricky. Yeah. You almost opened up another can of 00:28:18.286 --> 00:28:21.146 worms right there, I think. You opened it up, not me. My bad. 00:28:22.846 --> 00:28:25.466 My bad. Pastorally. 00:28:26.472 --> 00:28:29.532 Trust in God's promises. Absolutely. Here's the thing. 00:28:30.372 --> 00:28:33.932 And, and I guess this is what I would say to somebody who's saying, 00:28:34.092 --> 00:28:36.812 what about once saved, always saved? I would say, if you're walking in faith, 00:28:36.852 --> 00:28:37.912 you don't have to worry about it anyway. 00:28:38.592 --> 00:28:42.272 Amen to that. That's true. You're right. Right. You may like for your loved 00:28:42.272 --> 00:28:46.172 one, maybe, but for you personally, if you are following after Jesus, 00:28:46.332 --> 00:28:50.712 once saved, always saved or not, it doesn't matter because you're pursuing Jesus. 00:28:51.072 --> 00:28:55.072 Yep. Okay. Yeah. Why, why, why take the chance? Yeah. 00:28:55.772 --> 00:29:00.492 Why take the chance? Yeah. And so, you know, rest in the promises of God, 00:29:00.492 --> 00:29:06.332 because as we talked about, it sounds like both of us are of the opinion that, 00:29:06.432 --> 00:29:08.532 yes, one can forfeit their salvation. 00:29:08.772 --> 00:29:12.472 But you're going to have to kind of intentionally do that. 00:29:12.852 --> 00:29:17.872 And so if you are even sitting there going like, hmm, am I in danger of losing my salvation? 00:29:18.232 --> 00:29:21.412 Probably means that you're spiritually aware enough to understand. 00:29:21.552 --> 00:29:25.792 Sure. you know that either you're asking that question because you know there's 00:29:25.792 --> 00:29:28.752 something in your life needs to be taken care of or there's somebody in your 00:29:28.752 --> 00:29:30.632 life that you need to go reach because, 00:29:31.112 --> 00:29:35.032 you know i mean i don't sit around at night shaking in my boots thing i'm gonna 00:29:35.032 --> 00:29:40.612 lose my salvation because it's not mine it's it's not it's not my job to be 00:29:40.612 --> 00:29:45.192 jesus saved me yep so it's his job to keep it to keep it active it's my job 00:29:45.192 --> 00:29:47.712 just to walk with him and be faithful when we get there. 00:29:48.312 --> 00:29:55.252 And if half the people in the church spent as much energy working out their 00:29:55.252 --> 00:30:00.852 salvation as they did wondering about their salvation, that's a game changer. 00:30:01.092 --> 00:30:05.832 That is a game changer. Things would change immensely for sure. 00:30:06.572 --> 00:30:11.572 I'm not going to lie. So I really, I would really encourage everybody to get, I really, 00:30:11.832 --> 00:30:19.172 I feel like this passage in Hebrews has really got me thinking a lot more about, 00:30:19.332 --> 00:30:22.692 you know, especially this last part, 11 and 12. 00:30:23.232 --> 00:30:27.492 We want each of you to show the same diligence to the very end so that what 00:30:27.492 --> 00:30:28.932 you hope for may be fully realized. 00:30:29.452 --> 00:30:33.992 We don't want you to become lazy, but imitate those who through faith and patience 00:30:33.992 --> 00:30:35.192 inherit what has been promised. 00:30:35.752 --> 00:30:40.132 I really like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. And I love this right here. 00:30:40.472 --> 00:30:45.792 This little line, whether you lean to eternal security or conditional security, 00:30:45.792 --> 00:30:52.652 the question isn't just was I saved, but am I walking with Jesus right now? 00:30:53.432 --> 00:30:56.672 Because if, I mean, if you're not walking with Jesus right now, 00:30:57.032 --> 00:31:00.732 then there's something to be done about that. And you can fix that problem like right now. Yeah. 00:31:01.212 --> 00:31:04.992 You know. Like right this minute. Right this minute. Pause the podcast. Come back, please. 00:31:05.612 --> 00:31:10.052 But, you know, get that right first and then come back and finish the podcast. Yeah. 00:31:10.962 --> 00:31:16.282 So, overall, like, and again, like, I know that there's going to be people listening 00:31:16.282 --> 00:31:19.082 to this, but I guess I think we're off our rocker. That's cool. 00:31:19.482 --> 00:31:22.542 I mean, people thought we were off our rocker before they started listening 00:31:22.542 --> 00:31:25.542 to this. I guess about this particular subject. Oh, okay. Sorry, 00:31:25.642 --> 00:31:26.582 I should have been more specific. 00:31:26.942 --> 00:31:30.022 Can you get more off the rocker than off the rocker? Oh, I get more off the 00:31:30.022 --> 00:31:34.402 rocker every day, baby. Okay, all right, all right. Yeah, I'm like four acres off that thing by now. 00:31:34.742 --> 00:31:37.922 Good. Now you might as well throw that rocker away. I'm looking for a new rocker. 00:31:38.262 --> 00:31:42.722 Lose that one, too. But all that to say that we hope that you are trusting in Christ. 00:31:43.022 --> 00:31:47.182 And today, if you have any doubts about your salvation, any doubts at all, 00:31:47.542 --> 00:31:54.922 then we invite you to say the prayer and invite Jesus to be your Lord and Savior and then walk that out. 00:31:55.062 --> 00:31:58.702 And for goodness sake, I mean, if you don't have a home church, 00:31:58.982 --> 00:32:00.642 then reach out to one of us. 00:32:00.782 --> 00:32:05.442 I'd be happy to talk to you about Jesus. But if you can't lay your head down 00:32:05.442 --> 00:32:10.062 on the pillow at night and say, I know that I know that if World War III breaks 00:32:10.062 --> 00:32:12.822 out and they drop a nuke on this place, I'm going to be with Jesus. 00:32:12.982 --> 00:32:18.742 If you are not 100% sure, man, make today the day that you are 100% sure. Amen. 00:32:19.022 --> 00:32:20.062 Because, man, there's no better 00:32:20.062 --> 00:32:24.062 way of living than knowing no matter what happens here, I'm with Jesus. 00:32:24.582 --> 00:32:27.802 I feel sorry for the people I leave behind, but I'm good. 00:32:28.342 --> 00:32:31.942 I'm good. I don't want to leave Jessica, you know, a widow and I don't want 00:32:31.942 --> 00:32:32.962 to leave my kids fatherless. 00:32:33.102 --> 00:32:37.522 But I mean, if something happened to me, I'm going to be with Jesus. 00:32:37.902 --> 00:32:42.602 And, you know, the one request I've had for Jess, and this is going on the podcast, so it's official. 00:32:43.722 --> 00:32:48.062 Oh, no. If Jesus calls me home, okay, and you got to find another man, 00:32:48.322 --> 00:32:50.142 he just can't be funnier than me. 00:32:51.004 --> 00:32:54.004 He's definitely going to be better looking than me. Without a doubt, 00:32:54.144 --> 00:32:55.064 he's going to be smarter than me. 00:32:55.744 --> 00:33:01.384 He's probably going to be much more socially acceptable than me. Okay? 00:33:02.564 --> 00:33:06.544 Just don't let the man take my jokes. Okay? I always want to be the funniest 00:33:06.544 --> 00:33:09.744 man you've ever married. I think that's a reasonable request. 00:33:11.304 --> 00:33:15.824 I don't. I got nothing. That's a reasonable request. I got nothing for that. All right? 00:33:16.204 --> 00:33:19.364 I got nothing. Okay, so if something happens to me tomorrow and you're funny, 00:33:19.544 --> 00:33:21.484 leave my wife alone. Okay. 00:33:22.124 --> 00:33:25.544 If you're rich, come find my wife so you can provide a good life for her and 00:33:25.544 --> 00:33:26.844 my kids. Oh, my goodness gracious. 00:33:27.044 --> 00:33:30.364 Do not. How in the world did we get here? 00:33:31.064 --> 00:33:34.384 What brought you to that? I was talking about if I died tonight. 00:33:34.404 --> 00:33:37.424 I'm going to be with Jesus. All right. Oh, my goodness. I'm going to be with Jesus. 00:33:38.004 --> 00:33:40.444 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like, yeah. 00:33:41.044 --> 00:33:47.304 Yeah. Don't take a chance on believing in once saved, always saved. That's it. 00:33:47.844 --> 00:33:51.924 Live it out every day. Work it out today. Yep. It's been a good podcast. 00:33:52.124 --> 00:33:54.244 It has been. It's been a good podcast. 00:33:54.704 --> 00:33:57.244 If you like what you heard, then please share with a friend. 00:33:57.424 --> 00:34:01.624 The best way to help support what we do is to tell everybody that you like and 00:34:01.624 --> 00:34:04.164 support and listen to the Life on 11 podcast. 00:34:04.504 --> 00:34:07.364 We'll get together again next week, and we hope that you are blessed in all 00:34:07.364 --> 00:34:10.304 you do. Until you get there, have a great week. 00:34:17.200 --> 00:34:30.432 Music.