Something Shiny: ADHD What "Finding Your People" Actually Means When You Have ADHD Drop Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2026 *this episode transcription was auto-generated and might contain errors -------- ISABELLE RICHARDS: [00:00:00] Hello. I'm Isabelle. She, her, hers, DAVID KESSLER: and I'm David. He, him, his, ISABELLE RICHARDS: and we're two therapists with A DHD, who sit down to have some chats about A DHD. We can promise we'll stay on topic or be professional or even remotely mature, but we can promise that you'll end up looking at you or your loved one's, beautiful neurodivergent brain in a shiny new way. ISABELLE RICHARDS: This is not a therapy session. This is something shiny. DAVID KESSLER: I love it. JESSE SANCHEZ: Do you DAVID KESSLER: like it? Uh, that's amazing. And can this just be the intro you saying that and me freaking out about how amazing it's Yeah. You tapping your voice. That, that ISABELLE RICHARDS: could be, that could be our first intro. That's so good. So without further ado, welcome to something Shiny. DAVID KESSLER: I'm David. All I can, DAVID KESSLER: Isabel. I've never seen an organization empower kids the way I see the [00:01:00] Neurodiversity Alliance empower kids, and we were invited to see this incredible conference in Denver where you and I were able to get on stage and do a live something shiny and oh my God, was that just absolutely incredible? It was ISABELLE RICHARDS: the best. ISABELLE RICHARDS: It DAVID KESSLER: was ISABELLE RICHARDS: so freaking cool. DAVID KESSLER: Yeah, I got the tingles in it. And what I, what I think listeners need to hear right now just before we start is this is, this is us on stage like four or five chairs on stage, staring at the audience of hundreds of people. All of them. LD supportive, all of them. Part of the Neurodiversity Alliance, all of them in the Eye to Eye program. DAVID KESSLER: This is their leadership training. ISABELLE RICHARDS: And who are these people? David, right? Like so who is this Who, who is this audience made up of? DAVID KESSLER: So the Neurodiversity Alliance is a whole bunch of people, I'd say ranging from the ages of like 17. To 30. These are people that are in college and, and high school that are working with kids and adults with similar learning differences. DAVID KESSLER: So A DHD kids work with a DHD adults and they work on art projects [00:02:00] and work on ways to advocate together. So they sit in small groups, in schools after school, hanging out together and learning identities, learning about their learning differences together. And we're seeing their leadership training. DAVID KESSLER: This is like, we're, we're kind of pulling the curtain back so the world can see it like this is, I feel like this is exciting stuff. ISABELLE RICHARDS: It is so exciting. And okay, so just again, for our listeners who are like, wow, that's a lot of ideas like Neurodiversity Alliance, eye to Eye. So Eye to Eye is what the organization used to be called and now it has, um, kind of like changed its moniker or its name to better encompass the whole range mm-hmm. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Of what it does. Right. And so I think the name Neurodiversity Alliance is also exactly what it's right. It's an alliance of humans who all live on the neurodivergent spectrum, who are. Incredible at telling their story and telling their story from a place that talks about everything from the vulnerabilities to the strengths to the fullness of, I think, what our brilliant brains offer. ISABELLE RICHARDS: And [00:03:00] more than anything, it's like. Changing the education system and the like, the work Yeah. We're doing as we're watching it. Right? So, like, David, you've been involved in this organization for like 20 plus years. Am I wrong? DAVID KESSLER: Oh my goodness. Yeah. For, for a long time. For a real long time. And yes, and I think what I, what we're gonna see here and what the listeners are gonna hear, um, is what happens when kids and adults have mastery around talking about their neurodivergence. DAVID KESSLER: And what you're gonna see is people have the ability to access and talk about their learning styles, what they need, and metacognitive skills, and it's gonna be unbelievable to look at. Now, over the course of time, we're looking at leaders, we're looking at mentors. We're looking at kids themselves and adults themselves that feel vulnerable. DAVID KESSLER: And I just think it's gonna speak for itself the kind of amazing work that this organization does. One thing I do wanna say is while I've worked with the the Neurodiversity Alliance and Eye to [00:04:00] Eye and think different diplomats for years, and I have a lot of history with them. We're not working for them right now. DAVID KESSLER: This is our ability to talk about a program that we believe in because we're seeing the difference that they're making in the world and how they're helping our community. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, we're, we're not a part of this. We're just like huge fans. DAVID KESSLER: So without further ado, let me introduce myself. Flubbing up an intro in front of hundreds of people. DAVID KESSLER: Here we are. DAVID KESSLER: If you can hear the sound of my voice, clap your hands one time. If you can hear the sound of my voice. Clap your hands two times. Oh my God, I love it. Okay, DAVID KESSLER: welcome. Uh, this is something shiny and I don't know if any of you have been to a live recording of a podcast before, but this is exactly what's happening right now. DAVID KESSLER: Our podcasts are very conversational and they're all about A DHD. We're in fact, two therapists with A DHD that sit down and talk about a DHD. And this is what we're doing right now. I can't also tell you how absolutely I exci excited I am to be here, live University of Denver Neurodiversity Alliance. DAVID KESSLER: The summit is something that changes the [00:05:00] world and I'm blown away by it. It's ISABELLE RICHARDS: woo, trying to try not to burst. Anyone's eardrums was my excitement. We started this podcast, so my name's Isabelle and, uh, David and I started this podcast oh, some years ago. Because, uh, we both have a DHD, we're both therapists and like David said, we're trying to create a different access point for people to have really solid information about A DHD. DAVID KESSLER: And so I was thinking like maybe today we could sit down and talk a little bit about. Different kinds of supports, uh, different ways of leaning on people, different kinds of accommodations. And really, I think the way to get that kind of stuff is to get into people's experiences, right? Like, like people will ask me like, can you hand me that book of accommodations or supports? DAVID KESSLER: And it's like, it doesn't exist. It's tailored to every person. They think I'm kidding. I'm not, so in terms of like thinking about supports or mentoring stuff, like where [00:06:00] Isabel can I like push it on you to like maybe jump in there? ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. Um, I can, I mean I'll just be, uh, honest 'cause I can't help it. Audi, DHD here by the way. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Um, so I'll take you very literally. Thank you. Um, I, I would say for me, like the biggest resource or support, um. Has really been people like you, David, right? Mm-hmm. It's been having people in my life who can reflect back to me that they're like fulfilled and in love with life and have so many amazing gifts and also have their traumas and their pains and their wounds and uh, I had a moment 'cause we were just working together and you were helping me out with a bunch of clients I was working with and I loved working with my clients who had a DHD. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Who's gonna tell her, right? Mm-hmm. Who's gonna tell her? Um, I was so, I was like so jazzed to go into every session. I was like, this is the best. Why am I not doing this all the time? And, um, I had a moment where I came to you. We were like, picture, like a very nondescript therapy office. [00:07:00] In the background. ISABELLE RICHARDS: There's mailboxes and David's just like, do, do, do. Like you do. No, DAVID KESSLER: hunter do, do do. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, and I walk up and I, and I have tears streaming down my face and I, like, I've never been more scared maybe, and I go, I, I think I have a DHD. To which you said, DAVID KESSLER: welcome to the tribe. I was so excited. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay. I can't look at you right now. Okay. So I'm gonna get, DAVID KESSLER: I'm not ISABELLE RICHARDS: looking, uh, choked up, but yeah, so the importance of, uh, yeah, just like knowing you have connection and community, but like you kind of don't know what you need until you get it. And anyway, you brought me to the Neurodivergent Alliance. A couple years back and it blew my mind. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like I've never been in a room like that before. It changed my life. It led me to understanding I am A DHD for example. So thank you all. Okay. I'm not gonna crack DAVID KESSLER: this well. Okay. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, DAVID KESSLER: I think, I think in terms what you're really saying, Isabelle is like how important it's to have somebody else not make you feel alone. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. DAVID KESSLER: What it's like to not feel judged in, in a specific group. [00:08:00] And you know, I think LD comes with and learning differently comes with like a number of different superpowers. And today. You should know a couple of my superpowers. Okay, so I cannot spell. Can anyone hear? Did anyone hear struggle with spelling? DAVID KESSLER: Love you all. Yes. Amazing. It was like, just so for those that can't like see what's going on, like two thirds of the room raised their hand. It made me feel really good. DAVID KESSLER: I love DAVID KESSLER: it. Um, I also struggle sitting still. This is the most sitting still you're gonna see. Mm-hmm. Um, I struggled through high school. DAVID KESSLER: Um, I struggle in lots of different ways, but what I don't struggle is introducing Jesse Sanchez. DAVID KESSLER: Oh, we did it. DAVID KESSLER: And this is where I wanna be, hon. Like Jesse and I met a long time ago, I had been, I'd been like with the Neurodiversity Alliance under the eye to eye banner, like. And I, I wanna say like we were in Providence at this place called Kabar in this back room, like really, really stuffed full of people. DAVID KESSLER: Like we shouldn't have been in like that many people at a table. But there were, and it was amazing, and I don't know if you remember this, but we were sitting down talking about equitable ways of fighting systems. [00:09:00] And just so you all know, I'm, I'm kind of like burn it down. And you were the first person I've ever met that said, if you burn it down, we don't have a house. JESSE SANCHEZ: Oh, DAVID KESSLER: and I, JESSE SANCHEZ: I don't remember any of this, by the way. DAVID KESSLER: It's okay. JESSE SANCHEZ: Great. Please keep DAVID KESSLER: going. It's my job. JESSE SANCHEZ: You're making me remember sound interesting. I don't know. DAVID KESSLER: No, no. I mean, we also talked about dads. We had a really long conversation about, and JESSE SANCHEZ: we're talking about dads. DAVID KESSLER: Okay. So we both had memories from this moment. JESSE SANCHEZ: Oh yeah, yeah. DAVID KESSLER: Um, but in that time, like I saw you as this incredibly, incredibly smart leader who wears empathy on a different level. And the thing, I wanna make sure that like people on this podcast, they, they will get it because your voice does this, but you have this aura of safety. Yeah. And interest and curiosity that I think like exudes through the world and changes people. DAVID KESSLER: So what I'd like to do is totally put you on the spot, ask you a lot of really intimate questions in front of a room full of people. Perfect. Perfect. So, JESSE SANCHEZ: and then we're gonna get to sate. You're, we're gonna be in the [00:10:00] hot seat eventually. DAVID KESSLER: Oh, it's true. It was JESSE SANCHEZ: great. DAVID KESSLER: It's true. Um. But, but here I go. And I'll just say like, when you, when, what was it like for you, your first like year, first experience with the Neurodiversity Alliance or eye to Eye? DAVID KESSLER: Like what was your takeaway from that experience? What changed for you? JESSE SANCHEZ: Yeah, so my first experience was this summit, but 15 years ago when you and I were having that conversation, it might have been like the, I don't know, the end of the weekend. It's, you know, it's time blind. It's like, you know, we're sleep deprived and we've traveled a lot. JESSE SANCHEZ: I don't remember when it was during the summit, but I came to the summit as someone who had been identified with learning and attention issues in like middle school, high school, um, but like had zero community. Had never had any conversation around. I feel neurodiversity was also not a term we were using as much then, but not even like a DHD. JESSE SANCHEZ: People weren't even talking to me about like my A DH adhd, which I was very much A DHD or [00:11:00] executive functioning or working memory. Right. I was like, what were these things? Even though I had gone through the system. Identified. It was like all these adults knew something about me that was a secret that by the time I was adult, like I needed to, it was evidence, someone was different, but I needed to figure it out. JESSE SANCHEZ: And so I flew to the summit and I literally showed up to the summit. I was like, I, I, I used the term like I was, um, I was like a DHD. Curious. DAVID KESSLER: I love this like leaning a little bit in. Okay. DAVID KESSLER: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. JESSE SANCHEZ: Yeah. And then like I got to the summit. I, I was like learning disability, curious. Um, and so I got to the summit and I was like, I just like saw myself and like the way I behave and moved through the world and like the, like my own story so much, and all the friends I was new friends I was meeting and the conversations we were having and the [00:12:00] conversation you and I were having, I was like, oh. JESSE SANCHEZ: Two things. One was, yeah, like this must be me. And two was, I hope this is me. You know? Oh, now I was like, ISABELLE RICHARDS: yeah. JESSE SANCHEZ: I was like, this is like. A really like rad tribe, and this could like explain so much for me. Like I'm really stoked to go back home and actually get, like, pursue a clinical diagnosis as an adult for the first time and figure out. JESSE SANCHEZ: But then part of me was like, oh, but what if I'm not, DAVID KESSLER: oh my God, I had to feeling too, my JESSE SANCHEZ: gosh. And so, so I actually in many ways showed up. Uh, I, like I said the, I said the term like neurodivergent curious, but I was also, I was, I was actually almost more identifying as an ally. Uh, in some ways, right, like, I guess like formally, because I hadn't had like a stamp yet. DAVID KESSLER: You're talking about, you see what I'm saying? Yeah. You're talking about the meaning shift, that the meaning for you was about fighting for others, and then all of a sudden you realized you were the people you were fighting for. JESSE SANCHEZ: [00:13:00] It's funny that like, so it's not that the meaning for me was fighting for others, it was actually figuring myself out. JESSE SANCHEZ: It was like, okay. Yeah, there's something going on here. It's not without reason that I had like an IEP and like benefited from, you know, accommodations when I used them and really struggled when I didn't use them, right? So it wasn't like I'm fighting for others. It was literally at exploration of my myself. JESSE SANCHEZ: It was like, there's something going on here. I need to meet other people who have like operate in this world so I can figure out what it is. Ah. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh. So, so, I mean, can anyone I, I'll just ask for the listeners, like, can anyone here relate to that? 'cause when you said the thing just now, Jesse, about the fear, like, oh my gosh, this tribe is so rad. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, what if I don't belong? Like the fear is actually switches. I don't know. At some point in my life that really happened where the fear switched from. What does this mean to, oh my gosh, I wanna like this. I feel like I [00:14:00] belong for the first time, and. Oh my gosh, I'm so scared it's gonna get taken away. JESSE SANCHEZ: It was, it's in it. 'cause when I was like, I'm just being very literal. Um, when I left the summit I was like, I think this is me. But I won't know until I get the stamp, until I get the diagnosis. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, gotcha. JESSE SANCHEZ: And so that was like priority number one. And then I was like, great. So like what's gonna come of that? JESSE SANCHEZ: Like, is that gonna open up this world of kind of like personal research and understanding and figuring myself out, which it did, you know, including things like, you know, benefiting from like. Uh, you know, like reliable forms of, of, of management and self-care, like cognitive behavioral therapy and medication, right? JESSE SANCHEZ: And so this was like a distinctive conversation. I remember that night, you and I having, I. You at the time. I think were a grad student at Northwestern. DAVID KESSLER: Absolutely. Yeah. You could put, you could throw anything out. You don't have to protect me at all. Okay. Yeah, you JESSE SANCHEZ: just correct me. Jump [00:15:00] in and correct me. JESSE SANCHEZ: You're, yeah, you're good. And you know, I think you might have been like practicing in some for form or another therapy, but like you had like this level of real credibility. Right. Uh, around this whole topic, not just your lived experience, but also like academic and professional and you were like I was talking about like the cultural reticence around medication that comes from my family, right. JESSE SANCHEZ: Um, which probably a lot of folks can relate to and. You said to me, you're like, Jesse, like in the 21st century, like society and economy, like if you're gonna like have a career and you have a DHD, you're, you're like, unless you're like a farmer, like you're probably gonna really need and benefit from a medication. JESSE SANCHEZ: And like that really landed with me and I was like, can I actually get my life sorted out with treatment and medication? And it was just like. It was this experience. It was these interactions, these relationships that set me on my journey of honestly, like not just figuring myself out so that then I could [00:16:00] care for myself effectively enough to frankly build a life for myself. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Whoa. DAVID KESSLER: My mind is like, I'm, I'm okay. A part of me is choked up. Right? ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. DAVID KESSLER: But for you, this experience of like figuring out yourself more. Are there any other spaces aside from like the Neurodiversity Alliance or eye to eye, where you found the ability to explore yourself like that? Like this part of you? JESSE SANCHEZ: I mean, not the like ND or like. Brain and neurological part of me. It's interesting 'cause I feel like when we're ex, you know, as adolescents and young adults and like in the alliance kind of stage of club stages of life, it's like there's a lot of exploration in figuring out your yourself out. And there's a lot of communities that can support that, right? JESSE SANCHEZ: Like different, like affinity groups and clubs. Um, I heard someone say once, and this landed with me. It wasn't complete, but it landed with me an interestingly, they're like, if you really wanna understand yourself, you, it'd be really, really helpful. [00:17:00] To really know your brain. Now there's a lot of things that contribute to identity formation, right? JESSE SANCHEZ: Socioeconomic status, race, gender, sexuality, ethnicity. And I did explore a lot of those things and I was a part of like my Latino Sonido Student Association for example. And, um, that was really impactful for me actually. Um, but the body. Piece, the brain piece I think was, there's something valuable in centering a little bit on that. JESSE SANCHEZ: But the other thing that was really beautiful about neurodiversity is, um, I just, it was always clear to me that it was so much more of a unifier than a divider. Like, you know, we've lived in an era of like culture wars and identity politics, right? And I just have this motivation or drive that's like. JESSE SANCHEZ: What do we have in common? Mm. Like how, [00:18:00] like I love authentic interpersonal connectedness. Like, I like finding common ground and I, I like also like the more different you are than me, like the more interesting and excited it is for me to like to, for us to achieve that. That's like maybe one of my why's. JESSE SANCHEZ: I get a lot the energy from that. And there's something distinctly about neurodiversity that allows that. Whereas frankly, a lot of other affinity identity groups actually serve a really important place, I think, on our journey. But sometimes they actually just create a lot more divisiveness sometimes when they're done in certain ways. ISABELLE RICHARDS: If I, okay, can I pause and just make sure I know you're having a moment. I know like listeners and audience members, I, I just want you to know that there's like such beams of love going between, it's so real. So awkward stepping in and going, I'm so sorry. No, you, I just met you. Um, there, what I am really strucked by, as I hear both of you describing this, is like, well one, I don't know if y'all are picking up on this at all, but like, it's almost like you have a shorthand [00:19:00] already about some things as you're talking, like, I don't know, just like there's something that's happening. ISABELLE RICHARDS: I dunno if this makes sense, but like when you're describing the way in a neurodivergent space in a neuro inclusive space, you're feeling like. I don't know, like very integrated, like all parts or aspects or more aspects of your identity are welcome than maybe in other areas. Am I hearing that ish? JESSE SANCHEZ: I think that's part of it, but I think it's also, I've had a unique experience. JESSE SANCHEZ: You know, we're increasingly, every generation in the US has become increasingly more diverse and integrated. I identify as a mixed race person. My father's from Mexico. My mother, you know, is a white woman. And so a lot of spaces are like clubs, clubs. You know, the general term I kind of moved in, I always felt somewhat like a partial, like a, in like an outsider within or a partial belonging. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm JESSE SANCHEZ: Uh, whereas this is one where like. That's, that's never the [00:20:00] case. You know what I mean? ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, oh my gosh. Yeah. I, sorry, I just forgot. Forgot goose bumps. JESSE SANCHEZ: I forgot the question actually, but ISABELLE RICHARDS: that came up for me. No, that like, that is even better actually. I'm pointing your goosebumps. Yeah, I actually, it's literal, I mean evidence. ISABELLE RICHARDS: I take it. Yeah. It's quite literal that that okay. That like so deeply resonates 'cause it's like I don't, and, and I just speak for myself. 'cause who else can I speak for? Um, there, there's like something. I don't, I don't know. I feel like you all, or like this type of space is, is like, it, it's like the first experiment in what it means to be all of myself. JESSE SANCHEZ: Hmm. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Does that make any sense? JESSE SANCHEZ: Oh yeah. Oh, I wanna know more. ISABELLE RICHARDS: It, it makes me feel kind of like. I don't know. Like right now, I'm aware I'm masking pretty heavily 'cause I can't help it. I mean, I'm on a stage with people and there's people looking at me and also I can help it. Wait a minute, where am I? Ha ha ha ha. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, you know, like I can fidget, I can move, I can like do my thing. I can play with my ribbon. Um, there is [00:21:00] like a. I don't know. It just feels expansive. There's an expansiveness in opening, a releasing that is happening and it's like built into the whole concept of it, right? Yeah. Because the whole concept is like, like more, more, more instead of less, you know? ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like JESSE SANCHEZ: it's more, more, it's like all, all, all, ISABELLE RICHARDS: yeah. Not necessarily more sensory. It's like us, JESSE SANCHEZ: us, us. Yeah. All of us. All of us. All of us. But that word expansive comes up for me with the notion of neurodiversity and the and and the neurodiversity alliance. ISABELLE RICHARDS: I'm wondering if you can think of a specific moment, and I don't, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna use the word intentionally. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Can you think of a cringe moment from like your own relationship to yourself? JESSE SANCHEZ: I guess the closest I can get, I don't, this doesn't land as cringe, but this is what's coming up for me is, uh, I think just like the very. It's hard to find the words, like the word broken comes up for me. The very broken, defective, this, these are like the [00:22:00] words I would use to like describe my relationship to myself. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, wow. JESSE SANCHEZ: Like, like I think, yeah, I think like defective, inadequate, and I don't know, like how many people have had moments as like a neurodivergent person where like you just felt like. It's just inadequate. DAVID KESSLER: There's such a reality to like, like feeling in, in middle school, in high school, I can relate to these feelings of like, if I'm acting different than other people, I must be deficient. DAVID KESSLER: Mm. And the Neurodiversity Alliance, these spaces were the first place that I started to learning like different, it doesn't necessarily mean deficient. And it was a, it was a really powerful thing in the context of my life. But now. Jesse, you've had, and this is, I'm just like, I'm kind of getting here. This is my last question for you because I'm ki I like, I I need to talk to you more, but like in this moment, honestly, you're, you're now, you started here as a mentor. DAVID KESSLER: You started here running art rooms. Becoming a think different diplomat moving around like in many different alumni spaces and [00:23:00] now you're the president. And, and I think like that's a really important journey to like, think about. And in the context of that journey, you bring a ton of expertise from both being in the, like boots on the ground kind of expertise and I think community building expertise. DAVID KESSLER: So I have like a couple questions for you. What is it like. To find yourself in this role. Mm-hmm. And then I'm gonna ask you a question about space and time. JESSE SANCHEZ: Yeah. I mean, like, what is it like to find myself in this role? It's like, it's such a joy bomb. It's like so every, like, I feel like this is the first time in like my kind of both personal and also professional life, you know, I've like. JESSE SANCHEZ: I, I don't know, 15 years into my career now, um, that I felt like everything was very aligned. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. JESSE SANCHEZ: Um, I was recently introduced to this, uh, acronym that I think is really interesting, especially for our community. Oh no, it's not an acronym, it's an acrostic. Uh, the acrostic is shape. It's SHAP. And the S, uh, I like to adapt it for superpowers. JESSE SANCHEZ: What is your superpower? [00:24:00] The H is your heart. What's most on your heart? You know, your motivated around the A is your abilities, like what can you do? Um, and the P is your personality, which I think is nontrivial and the easier experiences. And, but the other piece is when you're navigating a career, um, and you're thinking about making a career move, you should evaluate it in terms of three different buckets. JESSE SANCHEZ: Is this just a job, right? Is this like paying the bills for now or is this a career, right? Like this is something that I'm kind of pursuing long term and I'm invested in growing in. And the third is, or is it a calling, right? Is it kind of like a highest calling? Is it almost like above you and beyond you and your interest and your will? JESSE SANCHEZ: You're being kind of called to go pursue something and I feel called to do this and like it's a real great joy and I think so. It means a lot to me to do this work, but it's such a ch it's been such a challenge as a neurodivergent person, navigating, building a life for myself [00:25:00] and finding my shape and finding my calling. JESSE SANCHEZ: That's like one of the things that I'm most committed to and excited about. As president of the India Alliance is like supporting all of you, all supporting all of our students and also supporting all of our alumni because like you and I, Dave, we're like one of, I don't know, more than probably 20,000 or like alumni, right, who are all active in the workforce, right? JESSE SANCHEZ: How do I support us and how do we support one another, right In like finding our shape and our calling as nd people. DAVID KESSLER: I love what you're saying, but I want to get. Kind of serious if, if you JESSE SANCHEZ: I wasn't serious. DAVID KESSLER: No. I tired of fun and games are coming in. No, no. I wanna bring this to a different level. So you don't know this. DAVID KESSLER: Um, but I actually have invented time travel. JESSE SANCHEZ: I'm So you have a what DAVID KESSLER: Have invented time? Travel. Oh yeah, time travel. I'm not joking around serious. Okay. And, and part of this is like you have the ability to go back in time to have a 32nd conversation with like a younger version of [00:26:00] you, we'll say like 10-year-old. JESSE SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm. DAVID KESSLER: Okay. Maybe nine 11. You pick, but like. What information do you think that you've learned now? I mean, think about the shapes that you've been talking about. Think about like the life that you live, what you've learned, the insights you've had, like everything you've learned has come from a significant amount of pain. DAVID KESSLER: So if you were to go back in time, 30 seconds or less, what would you say to yourself? JESSE SANCHEZ: Like, you are worthy and you are like loved beyond measure. DAVID KESSLER: Oh, JESSE SANCHEZ: you know, and like guess what? Like no one can take that from you. Like even in the times that you're not loving yourself. Right. I think that's one thing I would say. JESSE SANCHEZ: Um, and then I think the other thing I would say is, oh, it's escaping me. I'm forgetting it. Um, wait, what was it? It was, oh, do the thing. DAVID KESSLER: Do the thing. JESSE SANCHEZ: Yeah. Or you can like, DAVID KESSLER: what was JESSE SANCHEZ: I talking? Talking about DAVID KESSLER: bread crump. Oh, the bread crumbs. No problem. So this is, we were talking about going back in time, I learned about JESSE SANCHEZ: this listening on your Speaking of resources one, your podcasts. JESSE SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm. I, I heard you talk about DAVID KESSLER: this. Yeah. We just go back in time and say all the data so you get the breadcrumbs to go back. So we were talking about going back [00:27:00] in time. You'll get 30 seconds to talk to a 10-year-old version of you. You said they were in fifth grade. You had one bullet point, then you came with the second bullet point. DAVID KESSLER: The fourth bullet point was on loving yourself. Because you are working. JESSE SANCHEZ: Oh yeah. Okay. Got it. And this, so it's like connected. It works. It works. David. So you reminded me. So the other thing I would say is that, um, your worth is absolutely, is decoupled and has nothing to do with your performance or your economic value or like your economic performance. DAVID KESSLER: How much money you make doesn't ma doesn't matter in the kind of person you are, is what you're saying. JESSE SANCHEZ: Yeah. I think that's, that's, that's a way of naming it. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. DAVID KESSLER: Okay. All right, now, woo. Watch out. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Well, and and just to, in case anyone is worried, like I was the first couple of times you've done this, David, this form of time travel. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Does it count for like the multiverse and loops and every, like you've closed the loop, you've returned, you haven't altered enough of the past. You. That's you's, DAVID KESSLER: you can't bring physical objects [00:28:00] back. Those rules. Just saying, I wanted a little closure. ISABELLE RICHARDS: I wanted a little closure. Okay. DAVID KESSLER: Thank you so much for listening. DAVID KESSLER: If you ever have that thought where you think, Hey, I have nothing. Stop. Remember, you're so something's shiny. ISABELLE RICHARDS: That's right. Just as you are. If you like what you heard and you want to hear more free episodes of this podcast, please subscribe, rate and review anywhere you listen to podcasts. We're on Instagram as something shiny podcast, and if you're looking for more information, useful links, definitions, visuals, everything we can think of and more is on our website@somethingshinypodcast.com and it's all free. ISABELLE RICHARDS: Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you in two weeks. I.