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I'm Adam Maness.

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And I'm Peter Martin.

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And you're listening to the "You'll Hear It" podcast.

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Live. Exploring music.

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Exploring music.

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Brought to you today by Open Studio.

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Go to openstudiojazz.com for all your

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jazz lesson needs, and brought to you live at the beautiful Sheldon Concert Hall in

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lovely St. Louis, Missouri. Give it up, everybody, for the Sheldon.

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Yes.

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Well, Adam-

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Yo

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... it's a big day. It's a big live.

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You know, it's-

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It's a big night, actually

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... I was going to say. It's not a big day.

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This is a big evening, Peter, because we rarely do a live

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show. We've never done a live show in our hometown of St.

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Louis, Missouri, where we've recorded all 1,200 of these episodes about a

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quarter mile down Washington, just east of here, a couple blocks away

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in our beautiful studios. But we play-

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You and I always by the light of day. We're like the anti-vampires.

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I know.

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But tonight, we're going in there.

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I really might fall asleep by the end of this.

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I mean, we're coming up on my bedtime already.

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But not only is it a big night for us to be live, but it's a big night

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because this is, I don't know if you know this, but as this is being broadcast,

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it's the night before Miles Davis' 100th

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birthday.

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Yes. The centennial.

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That's right. That's amazing. Miles Davis, everybody.

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Miles Davis, of course, from just a few miles, was born in Alton,

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Illinois, which is, what, four or five miles from where we sit, and

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grew up in East St. Louis, and is most closely associated with East St. Louis.

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Went to Lincoln High School there, continuing on the

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tradition of the amazing St. Louis trumpet players,

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and really established it in a lot of ways.

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I mean, of course, we talk about Clark Terry.

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We talk about many before and after, but I mean, there's nobody

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really in the jazz trumpet world bigger, certainly not from St.

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Louis, and I would say just period.

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Period.

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I mean, Louis Armstrong. Like, that's the godfather, right?

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But then next, I mean, Clifford Brown, Fats Navarro, and many.

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Well-

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But I mean, Miles Davis, the cultural, the musical, the brass

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impact, unparalleled.

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But not just as a trumpeter, though, Peter.

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Miles was one of the great artists of the 20th century of any

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medium. Not just music, not just jazz, but art in general.

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One of the most influential, groundbreaking

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artists who literally invented about four or five

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genres-

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Mm

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... by just being unsettled. Just always

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shifting, never being satisfied with where he was.

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We're going to be listening today to perhaps not just his most famous album, but

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perhaps the most famous album in the entire jazz canon, his

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1959 masterpiece, Kind of Blue. And this album, I think, marks

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the start of Miles saying,

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"I'm not going to do what we've been doing.

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I'm going to go my own way," and pulling in influences and

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people that other

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of the artists, of his contemporaries, weren't doing.

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Right.

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And just having the courage and the confidence to be himself and

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not rest on his laurels, not always just go back to what got him

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there.

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Yep.

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But realizing that when you're making great art, you have to reach deep all the

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time. And this album, I think, is the first time Miles really

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reaches down deep and he makes something that is a

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standalone single achievement, and it is one of my

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favorite albums. I don't know about you, but I could listen to this

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once a month for the rest of my life and be happy.

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I totally agree. It's an amazing record.

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It's kind of a rare intersection

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between

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huge sales, millions of copies, platinum however many times

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over,

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great commercial appeal, the intersection of great commercial appeal, and

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extreme artistic virtuosity, on a number of different

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levels that we're going to explore.

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And you did a great job of kind of outlining the pivot point that

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Miles, one of his several beautiful pivot points of his career that he was

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at in 1959 when this record came out,

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as an artist, as a leader, as a writer, as a trumpeter, but

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also as the beginning of this

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amazing network effect that he had, the

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tentacles of which go all the way to today.

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So on this record, along with Miles Davis, are a couple of slouches by the name of

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John Coltrane.

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Yeah.

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Ever heard of him?

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I've heard of him. I've heard of him.

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Cannonball Adderley.

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Yeah.

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Bill Evans.

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Yep.

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Wynton Kelly.

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Yep.

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Paul Chambers.

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Come on now.

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Jimmy Cobb.

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Yeah.

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These are titans of the music, some of which already were

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beginning to, some of which weren't as known, but they would become more known

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later. But I think Miles' ability to put

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the right people together in the right room or the right recording

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studio with the right music was one of his most

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amazing... And I mean, you hear that from musicians.

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You talk about Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, countless others

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that came up. Joey DeFrancesco-

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Yeah

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... who played with him when he was 16 years old.

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That's right.

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Would talk about his taste-making abilities as a band leader.

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The greatest.

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Yeah. He's the greatest.

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The greatest taste maker.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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So what we're going to experience here on Kind of Blue is Miles Davis, the

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trumpeter, the conductor, the

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leader, the mid-level manager, maybe the micromanager.

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We're going to delve into a little bit of-

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Definitely the micromanager. Also, the composer.

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The composer.

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These are all original songs.

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The co-composer.

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The co-composer-

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As well

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... as we'll get into.

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Yeah.

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Well, let's back it up, Peter. If we're going to say that Miles is reaching deep

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and he's going for something new, let's talk about where he was coming from.

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So-

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Yeah

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... when Miles is a teenager, he moves to New York, and he starts to play with a

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saxophonist who's originally from Kansas City, Missouri, named Charlie Parker, and

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that music is called bebop. And that music is very ornate.

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It has a lot of fast-moving chord progressions that

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really direct the improviser, "Go here now. Here's where we're going.

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This is how it is." There's very structured, almost a baroque-type

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sensibility. It sounds like

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this. Charlie

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Parker, of course.

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Now, here's a young Miles.

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So you can hear-

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That's Miles. It's Miles, but it's like-

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It's still Miles.

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It's Dizzy Junior, right?

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But you can hear in the form of this, that you have these

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Yeah.

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Chord, chord, chord, chord, chord, chord. Right?

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And all of the chord, too, are these functional chords.

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It's not quite paint by numbers, but it's like you do this

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on this, and that goes to here.

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Yeah.

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And it's a very logical structure system.

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It's actually great for learning how to improvise because you

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have these boundaries, these rules in place that help you learn how to do

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it.

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Yeah.

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And Miles continues this through the '50s.

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This is "If I Were a Bell" from "Relaxin' with the Miles Davis Quintet." We just

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covered this on an episode a couple of weeks ago.

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Yeah.

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And this is a Frank Loesser standard, Great American

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Songbook standard, but that kind of structure of those chord changes is still

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there.

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I'll play it and tell you what it is later.

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Miles.

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Oh, great.

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This is the beginning of the Harmon-

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Chord,

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chord

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... period too. Chord.

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So you can still hear all of those dominant chords, those diminished chords-

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Yeah

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... leading the soloist where they're going to go.

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Now, just a year after that-

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Sorry, let me just ask, what would you call...

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That's not straight bebop in that style.

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No, we're kind of past the straight bebop stuff.

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Right.

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That's more like-

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I know you love names of genres, so what would you call that?

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Genres are one of my favorite things, Peter,

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because you don't have to think.

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No. Right.

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I notoriously hate genres because I don't think artists think like that-

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Yeah

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... as they're making the stuff. People put the labels on it later.

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It's great for marketers and for record stores and things, but in general, I don't

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think Miles is thinking about, "I'm going to make a straight-ahead jazz album."

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Yeah.

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He's just making his own music.

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No, he said it. "We'll play it and tell you about it later."

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Yeah, exactly. So a year later, Miles

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has incredible broad range of taste in art.

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He starts listening to a lot of Ravel, a lot of Debussy, a lot

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of Rachmaninoff and Stravinsky.

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Yeah. And a lot of Bill Evans.

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And a lot of Bill Evans, who's a piano player who's not yet in his band,

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but when he makes this album, "Milestones" in 1958, the title track sounds

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like this.

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Now,

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it still sounds like jazz, right? But that's all happening

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over just one chord.

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Yeah.

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It's just one chord that he's moving around.

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There's no like

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we're moving-

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No

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... all these places. It makes it a little bit more challenging for the

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improviser because there's not as much of a structure.

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Yeah.

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And also, no jazz musicians had really gone, especially as famous as Miles,

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had really gone down that road up to this point.

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Yeah.

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Another person who was really into this was a pianist named Bill Evans,

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and Miles really loved the way Bill Evans

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brought Debussy, Ravel into his own

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playing. And when Miles and

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Bill got together, they talked a lot about that kind of stuff.

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They listened to a lot of music together, and Bill joined his

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band. They started making music that had more of that impressionistic

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sound into the band, and then Bill left.

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Yeah.

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Bill was getting famous, and Bill left.

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But before Bill left, Miles had booked the session for "Kind of Blue," and even

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though Miles had already hired Wynton Kelly to play piano, he brought Bill back

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to make one more album, the third and final album they would make together,

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and that is "Kind of Blue." And that starts like this.

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Now.

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Hey.

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Hi.

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Now we're going

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up.

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C triad over that D minor.

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And then right to the D minor blues.

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Ah.

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Hear me call

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it.

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All those little clusters. Those little

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W. C. Clusters, Bill Evans.

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Bill Evans and Miles, the way they...

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John Coltrane.

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Back down.

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Reaching.

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Oh, right here.

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Oh.

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Yeah.

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That's the rare Aeolian.

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Right here.

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Just two choruses.

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Cannonball.

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Such beautiful language, man.

261
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What's amazing is how all three of the soloists are approaching

262
00:17:47,612 --> 00:17:48,902
this completely different.

263
00:17:49,372 --> 00:17:49,612
Yeah.

264
00:17:49,632 --> 00:17:51,092
They're playing over two chords each.

265
00:17:51,132 --> 00:17:53,602
There's just D minor for 16,

266
00:17:54,532 --> 00:17:56,972
E flat minor for eight, D minor for eight.

267
00:17:57,182 --> 00:17:57,292
Yeah.

268
00:17:58,972 --> 00:18:02,432
But the variance between the three of them is amazing.

269
00:18:02,812 --> 00:18:03,472
And it's

270
00:18:05,892 --> 00:18:06,472
one take.

271
00:18:07,252 --> 00:18:08,332
This is the first take and-

272
00:18:08,392 --> 00:18:09,252
This is the first take

273
00:18:09,272 --> 00:18:09,802
... the only take.

274
00:18:10,012 --> 00:18:11,052
No edits.

275
00:18:11,192 --> 00:18:11,372
Nothing.

276
00:18:11,672 --> 00:18:13,202
They just laid down master solo after-

277
00:18:13,252 --> 00:18:15,112
They'd never seen this music before either.

278
00:18:15,142 --> 00:18:16,652
And they'd never seen the music before.

279
00:18:16,712 --> 00:18:16,912
Yeah.

280
00:18:18,172 --> 00:18:20,232
That's all right.

281
00:18:29,072 --> 00:18:29,402
In the blues.

282
00:18:42,312 --> 00:18:42,342
Crescendo.

283
00:18:42,342 --> 00:18:42,852
Good ear, Pete.

284
00:18:43,912 --> 00:18:43,922
Thanks.

285
00:18:43,952 --> 00:18:44,992
I've heard this record before.

286
00:18:48,852 --> 00:18:49,452
And now we're going to

287
00:18:50,652 --> 00:18:51,332
close out with-

288
00:18:51,752 --> 00:18:51,952
Whoo.

289
00:18:54,912 --> 00:18:55,822
An improvised-

290
00:18:55,972 --> 00:18:56,192
Yeah

291
00:18:56,212 --> 00:18:56,632
... revel.

292
00:19:00,272 --> 00:19:00,812
And this is just

293
00:19:02,132 --> 00:19:04,092
two triads, G triad and F triad.

294
00:19:05,572 --> 00:19:08,912
With three horns, alto, trumpet, alto, sax.

295
00:19:09,312 --> 00:19:09,832
Tenor sax.

296
00:19:12,252 --> 00:19:12,262
Dude.

297
00:19:13,312 --> 00:19:14,012
Second inversion.

298
00:19:16,132 --> 00:19:17,612
And a nice piano solo along with it.

299
00:19:19,912 --> 00:19:21,132
Up a half step, same thing.

300
00:19:39,472 --> 00:19:39,752
Oh.

301
00:19:40,072 --> 00:19:41,992
All those clusters to make these melodies.

302
00:19:45,432 --> 00:19:47,232
What sounds like this in 1959?

303
00:19:47,312 --> 00:19:50,572
Nothing. That's why it kind of hit people like, "Whoa!"

304
00:19:50,712 --> 00:19:50,832
Yeah.

305
00:19:51,132 --> 00:19:51,272
You know?

306
00:19:54,372 --> 00:19:55,672
And then this is a little bit of

307
00:19:57,132 --> 00:19:58,892
a meandering section where-

308
00:19:59,152 --> 00:19:59,732
How dare you?

309
00:20:00,152 --> 00:20:03,732
No. I think, and that ended up being some extra

310
00:20:03,752 --> 00:20:06,532
bars, and I love that they didn't redo it.

311
00:20:06,732 --> 00:20:06,872
Yeah.

312
00:20:07,592 --> 00:20:11,412
Because Paul Chambers wasn't sure, and then Miles was like, "Exactly."

313
00:20:12,512 --> 00:20:15,592
And then he'd swing in and then went right into the line

314
00:20:17,452 --> 00:20:19,712
and just counted it as the first eight bars. You know?

315
00:20:28,892 --> 00:20:30,412
Oh, and leaving off those last

316
00:20:31,732 --> 00:20:33,932
horns on the last E flat, that's genius, right?

317
00:20:35,732 --> 00:20:37,472
Oh, and I love the way this ends. Check this out.

318
00:20:49,692 --> 00:20:50,572
Oh, it's faded out.

319
00:20:50,892 --> 00:20:52,732
Give it up for six geniuses, everybody.

320
00:20:52,772 --> 00:20:52,952
Yes. Okay.

321
00:20:53,032 --> 00:20:53,652
Just doing.

322
00:20:55,952 --> 00:20:59,752
Hearing an album is one thing, but trying to play this stuff is a whole

323
00:20:59,872 --> 00:21:03,772
other thing. But that's exactly what we do and teach at Open Studio.

324
00:21:03,872 --> 00:21:07,472
World-class musicians, real instructors, all in one place.

325
00:21:07,552 --> 00:21:10,112
Go to openstudiojazz.com. That's

326
00:21:10,192 --> 00:21:13,472
openstudiojazz.com. Start your free trial today.

327
00:21:13,932 --> 00:21:14,592
Back to the show.

328
00:21:16,472 --> 00:21:20,292
Okay, I just realized we can do a whole episode just on this

329
00:21:20,352 --> 00:21:23,932
one tune, and we've got, oh, this album has five songs,

330
00:21:24,492 --> 00:21:28,412
but it's so epic to me. I think it's 38 minutes long, but this

331
00:21:28,472 --> 00:21:31,912
record always feels like, well, especially as you're going to hear it on this

332
00:21:31,972 --> 00:21:34,332
episode, it's going to feel like a lot longer than 38 minutes.

333
00:21:35,132 --> 00:21:38,812
But to me, it has such a dramatic

334
00:21:38,892 --> 00:21:42,452
arc to the whole album.

335
00:21:43,752 --> 00:21:45,552
And look, the way we're doing it here is not

336
00:21:46,572 --> 00:21:47,872
necessarily the recommended way.

337
00:21:47,912 --> 00:21:49,032
Hey, don't sell us short.

338
00:21:49,252 --> 00:21:49,872
No, I'm not.

339
00:21:49,882 --> 00:21:49,982
Come on, man.

340
00:21:49,992 --> 00:21:52,932
This is a good-- This is like you're in the kitchen, you're learning how to stuff,

341
00:21:53,012 --> 00:21:56,532
but to sit down and listen to this album from beginning to end, maybe turning it

342
00:21:56,592 --> 00:21:57,572
over on the LP.

343
00:21:59,552 --> 00:21:59,732
So-

344
00:22:00,072 --> 00:22:00,292
Here's a-

345
00:22:00,632 --> 00:22:04,532
It's got such depth in terms of the overall

346
00:22:04,632 --> 00:22:08,512
narrative, dramatic flair to it, but also within each of the

347
00:22:08,552 --> 00:22:11,922
compositions. So like, to me, they're going between the different solos and then

348
00:22:11,932 --> 00:22:15,852
coming back, and the stuff like Jimmy Cobb at the drums is the one who just

349
00:22:15,912 --> 00:22:18,972
holds it together. I mean, PC for sure, but he's not always walking.

350
00:22:20,172 --> 00:22:21,452
And the melody's in the bass.

351
00:22:21,732 --> 00:22:21,912
Yeah.

352
00:22:21,992 --> 00:22:22,932
Like this is not really

353
00:22:23,732 --> 00:22:26,272
There's really not much melody.

354
00:22:26,472 --> 00:22:26,922
No. In the bass.

355
00:22:26,922 --> 00:22:29,312
I mean, there's a melody, but I mean, if we go back to like

356
00:22:30,892 --> 00:22:31,072
Yeah.

357
00:22:31,162 --> 00:22:31,912
"Moose the Mooch."

358
00:22:32,572 --> 00:22:32,692
Yeah.

359
00:22:32,792 --> 00:22:34,692
Where you have this like flowy-

360
00:22:34,812 --> 00:22:36,392
Get me out of that. Get me out of that.

361
00:22:36,592 --> 00:22:40,372
So here's a couple of things. So if you don't have Miles Davis' autobiography, you

362
00:22:40,492 --> 00:22:43,372
are missing out in your life because this thing is salacious.

363
00:22:43,432 --> 00:22:45,421
He got it yesterday, by the way. Don't let him make you feel bad.

364
00:22:45,432 --> 00:22:49,352
I didn't get it yesterday. These pages are a deep tan because they've been

365
00:22:49,411 --> 00:22:50,552
in and out of the sun for

366
00:22:51,352 --> 00:22:51,772
20 years.

367
00:22:51,992 --> 00:22:52,522
Thrift shop.

368
00:22:52,732 --> 00:22:56,172
So Miles writes, "I didn't write out the music for 'Kind of Blue,' but brought in

369
00:22:56,232 --> 00:22:58,862
sketches for what everybody was supposed to play because I wanted a lot of

370
00:22:58,872 --> 00:23:02,622
spontaneity in the playing, just like I thought was in the interplay between those

371
00:23:02,632 --> 00:23:06,092
dancers and those drummers and that finger piano with the Ballet

372
00:23:06,152 --> 00:23:10,032
Africain. Everything was a first take, which indicates the level everyone

373
00:23:10,052 --> 00:23:13,942
was playing on. It was beautiful. When I tell people that I missed what I was

374
00:23:13,992 --> 00:23:17,872
trying to do on 'Kind of Blue,' that I miss getting the exact sound

375
00:23:17,952 --> 00:23:21,802
of the African finger piano up in that sound, they just look at me like I'm

376
00:23:21,892 --> 00:23:25,192
crazy. Everyone said that record was a masterpiece, and I loved it, too,

377
00:23:25,772 --> 00:23:29,532
and so they just feel I'm trying to put them on, but that's what I was

378
00:23:29,572 --> 00:23:33,232
trying to do on most of that album, particular on 'So What.' I

379
00:23:33,372 --> 00:23:35,152
just missed." Can you believe that?

380
00:23:35,492 --> 00:23:38,472
Yeah, totally. I totally can because I've read the book.

381
00:23:38,832 --> 00:23:39,472
But also-

382
00:23:40,472 --> 00:23:40,481
Come on.

383
00:23:40,512 --> 00:23:43,672
No, because this is not a perfect album.

384
00:23:44,112 --> 00:23:44,672
What?

385
00:23:44,732 --> 00:23:45,972
No, it is not a perfect album.

386
00:23:46,012 --> 00:23:48,972
That's literally the name of the playlist that I came up with is Perfect Album.

387
00:23:49,212 --> 00:23:52,782
No, because it's a great

388
00:23:52,932 --> 00:23:56,632
album, maybe the greatest. But by perfect, I mean like the fact that

389
00:23:56,672 --> 00:24:00,572
Paul Chambers played eight bars because either Miles didn't cue him or

390
00:24:00,612 --> 00:24:02,872
they weren't sure. It came out, I mean, I couldn't imagine-

391
00:24:02,912 --> 00:24:05,212
Can we define terms a little bit? What about, what's perfect?

392
00:24:05,432 --> 00:24:06,532
There's mistakes on this album.

393
00:24:06,612 --> 00:24:06,872
Okay.

394
00:24:06,972 --> 00:24:10,352
But you know what I mean? And that's part of the beauty, the way that they played

395
00:24:10,412 --> 00:24:13,232
them. Let me just read you something from the liner notes, Mr.

396
00:24:13,852 --> 00:24:14,672
I've Got Something to Read.

397
00:24:14,832 --> 00:24:15,282
Are we having a read?

398
00:24:15,312 --> 00:24:16,872
I got a little thing called a printer, buddy.

399
00:24:16,952 --> 00:24:18,292
Are we having a research-off right now?

400
00:24:18,452 --> 00:24:22,152
Yeah. No, so this is the liner notes that was actually

401
00:24:22,172 --> 00:24:26,092
written on the original album. This has unfortunately been redone in a

402
00:24:26,112 --> 00:24:27,652
bunch of different times, but originally, Miles

403
00:24:28,952 --> 00:24:32,852
had Bill Evans write the liner notes. And this is picking it

404
00:24:32,912 --> 00:24:36,682
up part of the way through. "Miles conceived these settings only hours

405
00:24:36,712 --> 00:24:40,272
before the recording date and arrived with sketches which

406
00:24:40,312 --> 00:24:42,162
indicated to the group what was to be played.

407
00:24:42,622 --> 00:24:46,382
Therefore, you will hear something close to pure spontaneity in these

408
00:24:46,392 --> 00:24:49,932
performances. The group had never played these pieces prior to the

409
00:24:49,952 --> 00:24:53,092
recordings, and I think without exception, the first complete

410
00:24:53,172 --> 00:24:56,892
performance of each was a take. Although it is not

411
00:24:56,932 --> 00:25:00,872
uncommon for a jazz musician to be expected to improvise on new material

412
00:25:00,932 --> 00:25:04,452
at a recording session, the character of these pieces represented

413
00:25:05,072 --> 00:25:06,172
a particular challenge."

414
00:25:07,312 --> 00:25:10,052
And then he describes very briefly each of the compositions.

415
00:25:10,072 --> 00:25:11,672
I'll just do the first one because that's what we've heard.

416
00:25:12,012 --> 00:25:15,992
Briefly, the formal character of the five settings are, "So What," what we just

417
00:25:16,012 --> 00:25:19,702
heard, a simple figure based on 16 measures of one scale,

418
00:25:20,082 --> 00:25:23,872
eight of another, and eight more of the first, following a piano and bass

419
00:25:23,892 --> 00:25:26,612
introduction in free rhythmic style.

420
00:25:26,652 --> 00:25:30,332
And that's what really sets the tunes like So What and Flamenco

421
00:25:30,392 --> 00:25:34,032
Sketches apart is because if you remember the bebop with all that structure and do

422
00:25:34,092 --> 00:25:34,712
this now-

423
00:25:34,912 --> 00:25:34,992
Yeah

424
00:25:35,002 --> 00:25:38,552
... this is completely open, which you might be like, "Oh, well, that must be

425
00:25:38,632 --> 00:25:41,492
easier." But the thing is, is when there's no restrictions, when there's no

426
00:25:41,512 --> 00:25:45,172
boundaries, when you can do literally anything, it becomes very

427
00:25:45,212 --> 00:25:48,092
hard to make a cohesive statement.

428
00:25:48,212 --> 00:25:51,852
It would be like if I stripped the rules of grammar away

429
00:25:52,532 --> 00:25:56,452
and you had to do freeform poetry, we could all kind of do it,

430
00:25:56,952 --> 00:25:57,792
but would it be good?

431
00:25:58,612 --> 00:25:59,492
No, probably not.

432
00:25:59,542 --> 00:25:59,852
No. Let's try.

433
00:25:59,912 --> 00:26:01,022
Not at first. No, but

434
00:26:02,032 --> 00:26:05,952
great poets spend a lot of time with rules and with structure and learning how

435
00:26:06,232 --> 00:26:06,372
the-

436
00:26:06,732 --> 00:26:08,342
Yeah. But this speaks to Miles's-

437
00:26:08,372 --> 00:26:09,532
And then you can be free, yeah.

438
00:26:09,572 --> 00:26:13,412
Right, and this speaks to Miles's acumen as a leader and a

439
00:26:13,472 --> 00:26:16,632
visionary that he could bring in these sketches-

440
00:26:16,932 --> 00:26:17,162
For sure

441
00:26:17,312 --> 00:26:17,812
...

442
00:26:18,152 --> 00:26:18,572
that they never-

443
00:26:18,602 --> 00:26:18,772
Well, and the band.

444
00:26:19,312 --> 00:26:19,652
Yes.

445
00:26:19,732 --> 00:26:20,832
The band can take it.

446
00:26:20,892 --> 00:26:24,742
Right. But also, they could bring their personality, their

447
00:26:24,772 --> 00:26:28,652
improvisational skills, to a situation where-- Look,

448
00:26:28,732 --> 00:26:32,232
this was kind of the norm at the time, actually, to do single takes.

449
00:26:33,052 --> 00:26:36,792
You could certainly do more, but tape was expensive back then.

450
00:26:37,232 --> 00:26:37,362
And

451
00:26:38,172 --> 00:26:41,122
we're going to maybe listen to a little bit of the legacy stuff where they're in

452
00:26:41,131 --> 00:26:44,872
the studio. Once the producer says the tape is running, it's like,

453
00:26:44,921 --> 00:26:48,732
"Okay, come on." It's not rushed, but there's always a little bit of tension

454
00:26:48,932 --> 00:26:52,861
because Miles will be like, "Hold on a second." The intention,

455
00:26:53,212 --> 00:26:57,152
it's not like today where it's just megabytes that are free, which

456
00:26:57,192 --> 00:26:59,112
has really changed the music. But-

457
00:26:59,152 --> 00:27:01,612
Before we move on to Freddie Freeloader, Peter, I want to play a couple clips.

458
00:27:01,692 --> 00:27:05,192
The first is Miles talking about this relationship with Bill and their love

459
00:27:05,432 --> 00:27:08,032
of Debussy and French impressionistic music.

460
00:27:08,492 --> 00:27:08,831
Bill

461
00:27:10,132 --> 00:27:11,572
Evans

462
00:27:13,052 --> 00:27:16,432
is one of my all-time favorite pianists. Bill Evans.

463
00:27:18,472 --> 00:27:20,272
His approach to the piano just

464
00:27:21,172 --> 00:27:22,912
brought that piece out

465
00:27:25,312 --> 00:27:27,652
because he used to bring me

466
00:27:28,832 --> 00:27:30,052
pieces by Ravel.

467
00:27:31,692 --> 00:27:33,612
The Concerto for Left Hand and Orchestra.

468
00:27:34,592 --> 00:27:38,392
You hear that. What's the piece? Ravel's friend went bombing

469
00:27:38,872 --> 00:27:42,392
and came back. He was a pianist, but he lost his right hand, so he wrote

470
00:27:42,972 --> 00:27:45,912
a piece for left hand and orchestra for piano.

471
00:27:47,832 --> 00:27:51,632
And Bill used to tell me about different modes, which I

472
00:27:51,712 --> 00:27:55,612
already knew. And we just agreed on something, and that's the

473
00:27:55,632 --> 00:27:59,432
way the album went. We were just leaning toward

474
00:27:59,492 --> 00:28:02,872
Ravel

475
00:28:02,952 --> 00:28:04,232
and

476
00:28:05,852 --> 00:28:08,632
playing a sound with only the white keys,

477
00:28:10,672 --> 00:28:12,132
Dorian minor modes, and

478
00:28:14,792 --> 00:28:17,592
it just came out. It was just a thing to do.

479
00:28:18,652 --> 00:28:18,932
You know what I mean?

480
00:28:18,952 --> 00:28:20,052
It's amazing to hear. Now-

481
00:28:20,392 --> 00:28:23,421
So this is that sound when he's talking about all white keys.

482
00:28:23,452 --> 00:28:24,032
All white keys.

483
00:28:26,852 --> 00:28:29,032
And then it goes up in that first tune up a half step.

484
00:28:30,832 --> 00:28:32,792
Same relationship, very open.

485
00:28:34,652 --> 00:28:37,012
Obviously, it's like what did they do with it, though, right?

486
00:28:37,252 --> 00:28:40,592
So, I started to do some research on some of the classical elements of this, and I

487
00:28:40,612 --> 00:28:44,292
realized that I am 100% ignorant of all of that.

488
00:28:44,532 --> 00:28:48,092
However, one of the advantages, Peter, of us being jazz piano

489
00:28:48,172 --> 00:28:48,652
YouTubers-

490
00:28:48,852 --> 00:28:48,982
Yeah

491
00:28:49,092 --> 00:28:50,572
... is that we've met a lot of other-

492
00:28:50,632 --> 00:28:51,851
It's called influencers, by the way.

493
00:28:51,912 --> 00:28:52,412
Okay, go ahead.

494
00:28:53,042 --> 00:28:53,542
But go ahead.

495
00:28:53,112 --> 00:28:57,012
We've met a lot of other piano influencers,

496
00:28:57,292 --> 00:29:00,672
and one of our favorites is a guy in San Antonio, Texas, named Daniel

497
00:29:00,692 --> 00:29:01,312
Anastasio.

498
00:29:01,442 --> 00:29:01,942
Yeah.

499
00:29:01,452 --> 00:29:05,372
He's a great classical pianist. He's got a great YouTube channel and a

500
00:29:05,412 --> 00:29:06,851
great social media presence. Follow him.

501
00:29:06,892 --> 00:29:10,752
He has loads of interesting stories about classical music and the

502
00:29:10,812 --> 00:29:14,672
structure of some of that music. And I was texting Daniel last

503
00:29:14,692 --> 00:29:16,212
night as I was working out at the gym.

504
00:29:16,272 --> 00:29:19,832
I was like, "Hey, buddy, we're doing this podcast. What about Kind of Blue?

505
00:29:20,152 --> 00:29:24,062
What are some comps to that? Where were they getting these sounds?" And he sent

506
00:29:24,072 --> 00:29:27,292
me back, I swear to God, five voice memos

507
00:29:27,512 --> 00:29:31,192
right away. And they were so good, because he's a really good

508
00:29:31,232 --> 00:29:32,932
YouTuber, that I just texted back.

509
00:29:32,992 --> 00:29:35,692
I was like, "Can I just play this

510
00:29:36,772 --> 00:29:39,712
at the show?" And he was like, "Sure." So, I'm going to play the first one.

511
00:29:39,952 --> 00:29:40,112
Okay.

512
00:29:40,172 --> 00:29:44,012
And Daniel's going to explain some of these textures and give some examples

513
00:29:44,132 --> 00:29:47,052
of things that Bill and Miles might've been listening to.

514
00:29:48,292 --> 00:29:52,212
Hey, man. Yeah, I was thinking, in the Debussy preludes, how Debussy is

515
00:29:52,312 --> 00:29:56,272
using harmony is in these

516
00:29:57,712 --> 00:30:00,452
modal and pentatonic shapes. So he's

517
00:30:01,552 --> 00:30:05,052
often, like in The Sunken Cathedral, using parallel

518
00:30:05,172 --> 00:30:06,552
octaves and fifths.

519
00:30:10,372 --> 00:30:14,032
And it's not growing to anything. It's not resolving

520
00:30:14,072 --> 00:30:15,652
anywhere. It doesn't have any tension.

521
00:30:16,272 --> 00:30:18,602
It is just a color or an environment

522
00:30:19,472 --> 00:30:20,112
or a shape.

523
00:30:24,392 --> 00:30:24,692
And

524
00:30:25,532 --> 00:30:26,222
it doesn't

525
00:30:27,152 --> 00:30:30,382
have the same kind of tension that the music from the late romantic period does.

526
00:30:30,382 --> 00:30:31,222
It sounds like the intro to So What.

527
00:30:31,222 --> 00:30:31,502
It's about this-

528
00:30:31,872 --> 00:30:32,462
Yeah. Totally

529
00:30:32,462 --> 00:30:36,332
... coloristic exploration. So, Girl with the Flaxen Hair,

530
00:30:36,812 --> 00:30:37,372
for example.

531
00:30:38,124 --> 00:30:41,644
Which does have a little drama in it because it has this cadence.

532
00:30:44,664 --> 00:30:47,704
Oh, f****d that up. But later on, listen to these voicings.

533
00:30:51,724 --> 00:30:51,964
Yeah.

534
00:30:53,164 --> 00:30:55,384
Parallel fifths, parallel fourths.

535
00:30:57,404 --> 00:30:59,384
And I feel like you get that in the album, too.

536
00:31:00,084 --> 00:31:01,774
In Kind of Blue. Isn't that great?

537
00:31:02,404 --> 00:31:02,724
So good.

538
00:31:03,464 --> 00:31:06,204
The best piece of advice is always get friends that are smarter than you.

539
00:31:07,544 --> 00:31:07,664
Wow.

540
00:31:07,724 --> 00:31:08,364
That's why you're here.

541
00:31:08,484 --> 00:31:08,724
Yeah.

542
00:31:10,624 --> 00:31:13,424
No, it's so good. And what we're going to hear on the next track, too, which is a

543
00:31:13,504 --> 00:31:14,364
straight-up blues.

544
00:31:14,504 --> 00:31:14,584
Yeah.

545
00:31:15,044 --> 00:31:18,504
Miles is already sort of the master of making these

546
00:31:18,544 --> 00:31:22,224
connections with his artistry, when he's doing the modal stuff

547
00:31:23,264 --> 00:31:24,004
over So What.

548
00:31:26,764 --> 00:31:27,964
And at that one point, he's just like,

549
00:31:31,724 --> 00:31:35,094
so bringing the blues in. He knew how to combine, which

550
00:31:35,104 --> 00:31:38,704
it hadn't not been done before. And in some ways, Louis

551
00:31:38,764 --> 00:31:40,744
Armstrong did this in the late '20s.

552
00:31:40,804 --> 00:31:43,544
We kind of heard some of this, where you're taking some of these,

553
00:31:44,644 --> 00:31:48,474
maybe more concert band, John Philip Sousa kind of influences with the New

554
00:31:48,524 --> 00:31:51,544
Orleans thing, and then the blues, and putting it together with this

555
00:31:51,584 --> 00:31:54,384
improvisational flair that was revolutionary.

556
00:31:54,404 --> 00:31:54,804
Absolutely.

557
00:31:54,824 --> 00:31:58,424
And they literally took the world by storm, and it's right when recordings

558
00:31:58,764 --> 00:32:00,044
and radio was coming out and stuff.

559
00:32:00,384 --> 00:32:04,354
But Miles really sat in that tradition in a way with

560
00:32:04,384 --> 00:32:08,204
this modal stuff and his love of the Ravel and the Debussy and

561
00:32:08,344 --> 00:32:10,744
stuff. And it's just genius the way it's all kind of

562
00:32:11,544 --> 00:32:13,504
the tapestry that it became.

563
00:32:13,864 --> 00:32:17,724
So, this second track is called Freddie Freeloader, and this is the only track that

564
00:32:17,764 --> 00:32:19,404
Wynton Kelly plays on on this album.

565
00:32:19,454 --> 00:32:21,734
Again, Wynton was already hired as-

566
00:32:22,004 --> 00:32:22,914
He was the new pianist that Miles-

567
00:32:22,914 --> 00:32:26,644
... the pianist in this band. But he showed up to the session and Bill

568
00:32:26,704 --> 00:32:28,484
Evans was there, and he was like, "What the..."

569
00:32:29,584 --> 00:32:30,754
And he almost left. He was like, "Oh, I-"

570
00:32:30,754 --> 00:32:31,444
And he almost left.

571
00:32:31,664 --> 00:32:32,964
Because I guess I'm not starting yet.

572
00:32:33,144 --> 00:32:36,964
But here's, again, how smart Miles is as a band manager.

573
00:32:37,154 --> 00:32:37,654
Yeah.

574
00:32:37,164 --> 00:32:39,404
As managing his people and getting the best out of it.

575
00:32:39,804 --> 00:32:41,364
Could you imagine this song-

576
00:32:41,664 --> 00:32:42,074
No, of course not

577
00:32:42,074 --> 00:32:43,804
... with Bill Evans instead of Wynton Kelly?

578
00:32:43,864 --> 00:32:43,884
Yeah.

579
00:32:44,324 --> 00:32:47,663
It would be so different. I'm sure it'd be great, but this

580
00:32:47,744 --> 00:32:49,804
is a lot of people's favorite track.

581
00:32:49,824 --> 00:32:53,224
Could you imagine us listening to this track without me playing along with Wynton

582
00:32:53,264 --> 00:32:53,434
Kelly?

583
00:32:53,434 --> 00:32:53,704
Please.

584
00:32:53,964 --> 00:32:54,534
Okay, I'm going to try.

585
00:32:54,534 --> 00:32:55,114
Try to restrain yourself.

586
00:32:55,124 --> 00:32:55,564
I'm going to try.

587
00:33:14,204 --> 00:33:16,324
12-bar blues. We're going back to the top. Repeat.

588
00:33:16,344 --> 00:33:16,524
Yeah.

589
00:33:16,644 --> 00:33:16,784
Right?

590
00:33:19,744 --> 00:33:20,824
All that stuff Wynton's doing there.

591
00:33:20,864 --> 00:33:21,184
Yeah.

592
00:33:21,204 --> 00:33:22,144
Yeah.

593
00:33:26,724 --> 00:33:29,804
It's just like counterpoint to the main, very simple melody.

594
00:33:30,194 --> 00:33:30,694
Yeah.

595
00:33:30,224 --> 00:33:31,424
Man, this is a simple record.

596
00:33:36,124 --> 00:33:38,664
Now check out Jimmy Cobb's going to make a snare drum hit here.

597
00:33:40,024 --> 00:33:40,964
Oh, hi-hat, sorry.

598
00:33:43,844 --> 00:33:44,044
Yeah.

599
00:33:44,404 --> 00:33:45,864
Yeah. We'll fix it in the edit.

600
00:33:50,724 --> 00:33:51,084
Careful.

601
00:34:13,725 --> 00:34:16,705
There's some bebop for you, right?

602
00:34:16,725 --> 00:34:16,924
Sure.

603
00:34:17,924 --> 00:34:19,824
Little flashes of bebop on this album.

604
00:34:25,424 --> 00:34:27,185
Hell, there's the snare.

605
00:34:34,404 --> 00:34:34,665
Oh.

606
00:34:45,984 --> 00:34:49,624
It's so good, dude. It's so swinging. It's so amazing.

607
00:34:55,484 --> 00:34:58,304
It's like a whole generation of piano players that owes Wynton Kelly-

608
00:34:58,764 --> 00:34:58,844
Yeah.

609
00:34:58,884 --> 00:34:59,454
... a lot of money.

610
00:34:59,454 --> 00:35:01,464
Yeah, this is probably the most transcribed, learned

611
00:35:02,544 --> 00:35:06,324
solo of everybody from Herbie Hancock, early '60s to

612
00:35:06,404 --> 00:35:06,604
today.

613
00:35:06,644 --> 00:35:07,464
No, say that again. That's-

614
00:35:07,474 --> 00:35:07,704
Here's Miles.

615
00:35:07,724 --> 00:35:08,024
This is-

616
00:35:14,944 --> 00:35:15,704
Ooh.

617
00:35:18,304 --> 00:35:18,744
Bass.

618
00:35:38,444 --> 00:35:38,864
This line here.

619
00:35:45,364 --> 00:35:47,264
Okay, the solos are perfect on this record.

620
00:35:48,364 --> 00:35:49,504
That much I'll give you.

621
00:35:49,664 --> 00:35:51,134
We're going to arm wrestle over the perfect later.

622
00:35:51,164 --> 00:35:51,943
No, they are, which is rare.

623
00:35:51,964 --> 00:35:52,804
I'm coming at you.

624
00:35:53,084 --> 00:35:54,064
That's rare, though.

625
00:35:54,464 --> 00:35:55,224
Defend yourself.

626
00:35:55,824 --> 00:35:58,344
Everybody's solo, there's nothing that you'd want to change.

627
00:36:01,584 --> 00:36:02,084
Ooh.

628
00:36:19,784 --> 00:36:21,264
There's a lydian dominant chord there.

629
00:36:24,964 --> 00:36:26,664
This is some of the most complicated

630
00:36:28,224 --> 00:36:31,604
snare playing that Jimmy Cobb plays on the whole record, which is, his

631
00:36:31,664 --> 00:36:32,564
restraint

632
00:36:33,404 --> 00:36:34,444
is impeccable.

633
00:36:35,544 --> 00:36:37,724
A lot of drummers could've screwed this whole record up.

634
00:36:39,484 --> 00:36:39,764
This.

635
00:36:42,704 --> 00:36:44,024
Just strolling through it.

636
00:36:44,064 --> 00:36:44,584
Yeah. Take our

637
00:36:44,664 --> 00:36:49,164
time. We're

638
00:36:49,214 --> 00:36:51,414
about to have one of the greatest handoffs-

639
00:36:51,834 --> 00:36:52,064
Oh, yeah

640
00:36:52,064 --> 00:36:53,753
... in jazz history between soloists.

641
00:36:53,834 --> 00:36:53,844
Right. Yeah.

642
00:36:53,854 --> 00:36:55,414
When John Coltrane comes in.

643
00:37:05,374 --> 00:37:06,974
I think it's the end of this chorus. Is that right?

644
00:37:07,254 --> 00:37:07,414
Yeah.

645
00:37:18,384 --> 00:37:22,564
Here's

646
00:37:22,594 --> 00:37:23,394
Abs the Ab.

647
00:37:38,994 --> 00:37:42,504
He just comes in on fire. He's already played more notes than Miles plays on the

648
00:37:42,534 --> 00:37:43,054
whole record.

649
00:37:44,494 --> 00:37:45,114
Like, he has.

650
00:37:56,954 --> 00:38:00,754
Woo.

651
00:38:01,254 --> 00:38:02,474
Man, they're listening. Oh.

652
00:38:12,274 --> 00:38:12,474
Oh.

653
00:38:12,554 --> 00:38:13,534
It's so good, dude.

654
00:38:21,774 --> 00:38:23,894
Man, Trane's blues playing is effortless.

655
00:38:23,994 --> 00:38:26,374
Like, he throws that in like he's just

656
00:38:27,474 --> 00:38:29,234
tossing some tissue out of his pocket, man.

657
00:38:29,414 --> 00:38:30,494
Oh, true. It's true.

658
00:38:44,074 --> 00:38:47,894
And that contrast between Miles is this sophisticated-

659
00:38:47,974 --> 00:38:48,094
Yeah

660
00:38:48,134 --> 00:38:50,254
... sounding, he drives a Ferrari.

661
00:38:51,774 --> 00:38:55,454
Trane just comes in like a train on fire.

662
00:38:55,554 --> 00:38:55,714
Yeah.

663
00:38:55,794 --> 00:38:56,073
Just like...

664
00:38:56,793 --> 00:38:58,083
The Chevy Silverado up in there.

665
00:38:58,094 --> 00:38:58,654
I mean, just like-

666
00:39:00,214 --> 00:39:00,374
I don't know.

667
00:39:00,394 --> 00:39:00,614
What?

668
00:39:00,754 --> 00:39:01,254
I don't know.

669
00:39:02,214 --> 00:39:04,034
Is that a minivan? I can't remember.

670
00:39:05,104 --> 00:39:09,014
But he just comes in and reminds you of everything raw about being a human being-

671
00:39:09,024 --> 00:39:09,524
Yeah

672
00:39:09,024 --> 00:39:12,994
... after you develop this sense of, like, "Well, aren't we fancy?"

673
00:39:13,014 --> 00:39:13,494
With Miles.

674
00:39:13,554 --> 00:39:13,564
Yeah.

675
00:39:13,564 --> 00:39:14,044
You know what I mean? It's just like-

676
00:39:14,054 --> 00:39:15,514
And the connective tissue.

677
00:39:19,114 --> 00:39:19,684
Jimmy Cobb.

678
00:39:19,934 --> 00:39:20,194
I think-

679
00:39:20,334 --> 00:39:21,154
This is Cannonball Adderley

680
00:39:21,164 --> 00:39:22,154
... Cannonball Adderley.

681
00:39:23,914 --> 00:39:24,234
Woo.

682
00:39:38,614 --> 00:39:39,194
Cross-stick.

683
00:39:49,294 --> 00:39:50,754
I mean, Jacksonville, Florida.

684
00:39:50,874 --> 00:39:54,174
Does Cannonball Adderley have the most singable solos on this whole album?

685
00:39:54,224 --> 00:39:54,774
Yeah. So lyrical.

686
00:39:54,794 --> 00:39:55,074
For sure.

687
00:39:55,994 --> 00:39:56,874
Miles is pretty good, too.

688
00:39:57,894 --> 00:39:58,374
Trane did, too.

689
00:40:16,074 --> 00:40:18,594
Oh, it's also swinging from beginning to end. There's that.

690
00:40:21,814 --> 00:40:22,494
All

691
00:40:22,504 --> 00:40:27,994
right.

692
00:40:37,274 --> 00:40:39,374
Okay, this is incredible. We-

693
00:40:40,014 --> 00:40:41,664
It's going to be a real challenge to get this into a tight 90, my man.

694
00:40:41,664 --> 00:40:43,974
This is going to be a challenge because I want to go back and listen to stuff, but

695
00:40:43,994 --> 00:40:44,004
we don't-

696
00:40:44,054 --> 00:40:45,714
Well, hold on. Before we leave Freddie Freeloader, though-

697
00:40:45,794 --> 00:40:45,844
Yeah

698
00:40:45,844 --> 00:40:48,923
... I do want to play just what I think is one of the most amazing moments, and

699
00:40:48,974 --> 00:40:52,354
it's Wynton Kelly's solo. Just listen to a little bit without anybody else.

700
00:40:52,423 --> 00:40:52,923
Oh, yeah.

701
00:40:52,454 --> 00:40:55,534
And notice how he's like a drummer.

702
00:40:55,614 --> 00:40:58,074
You can feel the groove so clearly.

703
00:41:07,594 --> 00:41:08,713
Everything's so precise.

704
00:41:08,773 --> 00:41:08,974
Oh.

705
00:41:09,514 --> 00:41:10,114
In the pocket.

706
00:41:10,334 --> 00:41:11,734
The left hand, so simple.

707
00:41:13,934 --> 00:41:16,533
He lays those back a little bit. Man, so beautiful.

708
00:41:18,234 --> 00:41:18,744
Okay, next up-

709
00:41:18,744 --> 00:41:21,374
Man, so much just, like, two notes in the left hand.

710
00:41:21,634 --> 00:41:22,054
Oh, yeah.

711
00:41:23,534 --> 00:41:23,834
Ah.

712
00:41:23,854 --> 00:41:23,984
Yeah.

713
00:41:23,994 --> 00:41:25,754
Why don't you do two notes in the left hand ever?

714
00:41:25,874 --> 00:41:26,574
I do sometimes.

715
00:41:26,734 --> 00:41:28,054
You do four, buddy. Let's be honest.

716
00:41:28,214 --> 00:41:28,394
Oh.

717
00:41:28,514 --> 00:41:30,114
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. S**t.

718
00:41:30,974 --> 00:41:34,734
Next up is, this has got to be in the argument for one of the greatest

719
00:41:34,794 --> 00:41:37,674
jazz standards of all time, right? This is Blue in Green.

720
00:41:38,084 --> 00:41:39,473
What comes next? Oh, Blue in Green. Yeah.

721
00:41:39,594 --> 00:41:40,314
And

722
00:41:41,354 --> 00:41:41,664
a long time-

723
00:41:41,664 --> 00:41:43,024
A little controversy on this composition

724
00:41:43,024 --> 00:41:45,494
... controversial for a while. It was credited to Miles Davis.

725
00:41:45,524 --> 00:41:46,024
Yeah.

726
00:41:45,554 --> 00:41:48,994
I think in 2002, Miles' estate settled and-

727
00:41:49,024 --> 00:41:50,374
Yeah, it was post-Miles of-

728
00:41:50,394 --> 00:41:51,554
Post-Miles passing

729
00:41:51,634 --> 00:41:51,934
... being alive

730
00:41:52,294 --> 00:41:55,533
... that Bill Evans got credit for writing it.

731
00:41:55,594 --> 00:41:55,694
Yeah.

732
00:41:56,974 --> 00:42:00,774
Whoever wrote it, it's one of the great ballads in jazz history.

733
00:42:00,794 --> 00:42:01,434
This is Blue in Green.

734
00:44:13,864 --> 00:44:14,424
He's painting.

735
00:44:14,884 --> 00:44:15,184
Yeah.

736
00:44:16,424 --> 00:44:16,964
Unbelievable.

737
00:44:17,064 --> 00:44:19,164
Paul Chambers, the unsung

738
00:44:21,104 --> 00:44:24,624
hero of this album at the bass. 23 years old when this record was made.

739
00:44:24,684 --> 00:44:24,944
Nice. Yeah.

740
00:44:25,284 --> 00:44:25,384
Yeah.

741
00:44:25,744 --> 00:44:26,144
PC.

742
00:44:27,464 --> 00:44:28,034
Yeah. Just amazing.

743
00:44:28,034 --> 00:44:28,584
Jimmy Cobb was-

744
00:44:29,604 --> 00:44:30,364
Ah, train.

745
00:44:30,544 --> 00:44:30,644
Yeah.

746
00:44:30,724 --> 00:44:32,224
Yeah. Good, glad you turned that off.

747
00:44:32,664 --> 00:44:32,904
Here's-

748
00:44:33,404 --> 00:44:33,774
Give it up everybody, come on.

749
00:44:33,784 --> 00:44:34,764
No, it's, yeah.

750
00:44:37,304 --> 00:44:37,444
Here's

751
00:44:39,484 --> 00:44:41,564
Bill's perspective on making Kind of Blue.

752
00:44:42,324 --> 00:44:44,064
Of course, Kind of Blue was the

753
00:44:45,264 --> 00:44:46,444
most popular of the-

754
00:44:46,524 --> 00:44:46,624
Yeah

755
00:44:46,924 --> 00:44:48,544
... three albums. But how was,

756
00:44:49,524 --> 00:44:52,824
I have heard you made Kind of Blue in one day in studio.

757
00:44:53,084 --> 00:44:55,844
Yes, that's right. Mm-hmm. Very quickly.

758
00:44:56,574 --> 00:44:58,624
Was that a special experience for you?

759
00:44:59,544 --> 00:45:03,324
Well, yeah, of course, anytime you play with musicians like that, it's a

760
00:45:03,344 --> 00:45:06,363
special experience. But I think we all just

761
00:45:07,444 --> 00:45:09,164
do our professional best. Mm.

762
00:45:10,304 --> 00:45:13,644
And perhaps that day, the chemistry

763
00:45:13,724 --> 00:45:17,014
was maybe a little better than usual or something. Yeah.

764
00:45:17,024 --> 00:45:20,884
Because that you can't predict. What you can do is to be a

765
00:45:20,964 --> 00:45:23,584
good professional, always do a good job. Mm.

766
00:45:23,713 --> 00:45:26,884
And sometimes things come together so that it's

767
00:45:26,964 --> 00:45:29,684
even a little better than professional.

768
00:45:29,964 --> 00:45:33,784
Do you have contact with Miles Davis these days? Some. Yeah.

769
00:45:35,084 --> 00:45:35,204
I

770
00:45:36,164 --> 00:45:36,604
saw him,

771
00:45:37,964 --> 00:45:40,594
well, now it must be a year ago. Yeah.

772
00:45:41,304 --> 00:45:45,224
Because I had heard these rumors. There were so many rumors around about Miles,

773
00:45:45,244 --> 00:45:47,974
and somebody told me he was very sick. Yeah. And they thought he was going to die.

774
00:45:48,024 --> 00:45:49,773
This was in the '70s when Miles-

775
00:45:49,804 --> 00:45:49,894
Yeah, late '70s

776
00:45:49,894 --> 00:45:51,284
... was kind of out of playing, yeah.

777
00:45:51,664 --> 00:45:54,464
That, I love his, that's like the ultimate understatement.

778
00:45:54,493 --> 00:45:56,704
"Yeah, I think it was a little bit better than professional."

779
00:45:57,864 --> 00:45:58,284
Yeah.

780
00:45:58,294 --> 00:45:58,794
Yeah.

781
00:45:58,324 --> 00:45:58,674
Yeah, Bill.

782
00:45:58,894 --> 00:46:00,624
That's what I strive for in this show, bud.

783
00:46:00,804 --> 00:46:00,944
Yeah.

784
00:46:01,054 --> 00:46:01,554
Yeah, just a little bit better than-

785
00:46:01,554 --> 00:46:02,784
Slightly better than professional.

786
00:46:03,304 --> 00:46:07,244
No, it's actually stunning. So let's talk just a little bit before we move on

787
00:46:07,784 --> 00:46:09,604
about the sound of this record.

788
00:46:09,644 --> 00:46:10,104
Oh, please.

789
00:46:10,264 --> 00:46:11,444
Columbia Records,

790
00:46:12,724 --> 00:46:13,744
Fred Plaut-

791
00:46:14,364 --> 00:46:14,654
That's right

792
00:46:14,654 --> 00:46:15,364
... was the engineer.

793
00:46:15,624 --> 00:46:15,764
That's right.

794
00:46:16,384 --> 00:46:18,414
Irving Town, was it Irving Townsend was the producer?

795
00:46:18,414 --> 00:46:19,204
Irving Townsend, yeah.

796
00:46:19,654 --> 00:46:23,004
Yeah. And Teo was already kind of involved, but more as an apprentice, of course,

797
00:46:23,044 --> 00:46:23,444
would become-

798
00:46:23,504 --> 00:46:24,084
Teo Macero

799
00:46:24,124 --> 00:46:27,864
... Teo Macero would become Miles' producer through the great Columbia years.

800
00:46:27,904 --> 00:46:30,844
But even what we heard on that -

801
00:46:30,884 --> 00:46:31,544
On Milestones.

802
00:46:31,624 --> 00:46:33,084
Yeah, that was already on Columbia.

803
00:46:33,104 --> 00:46:33,224
Yep.

804
00:46:33,264 --> 00:46:36,974
That's already that new sound, and I think as musicians, we don't

805
00:46:37,024 --> 00:46:40,924
always give enough credit. Like, the sound of a record like this, had it not been

806
00:46:40,944 --> 00:46:44,104
recorded as it was, and so brilliantly.

807
00:46:44,644 --> 00:46:48,124
Although, talk about imperfections again, the piano's a little bit out of tune.

808
00:46:48,164 --> 00:46:48,433
We heard that.

809
00:46:48,433 --> 00:46:49,964
The piano goes out, especially when we're going to listen to-

810
00:46:50,024 --> 00:46:50,034
Yeah

811
00:46:50,034 --> 00:46:52,024
... all the blues. It's pretty out, and you're just like-

812
00:46:52,044 --> 00:46:55,204
Which is surprising because Columbia was putting a lot of money into, like-

813
00:46:55,574 --> 00:46:56,074
Yeah

814
00:46:55,574 --> 00:46:57,014
... when Miles left Prestige and Blue Note.

815
00:46:57,024 --> 00:46:57,844
Junior pianos.

816
00:46:58,184 --> 00:46:58,824
Yeah, Impulse.

817
00:46:59,064 --> 00:46:59,074
Yeah.

818
00:46:59,264 --> 00:47:02,904
Columbia was Frank Sinatra, Dave Brubeck, all these big

819
00:47:02,944 --> 00:47:03,463
artists.

820
00:47:03,664 --> 00:47:03,844
Yeah.

821
00:47:04,004 --> 00:47:06,204
And Miles was like, that was a big thing.

822
00:47:06,284 --> 00:47:10,024
But the way that they recorded this was a little bit unusual.

823
00:47:10,064 --> 00:47:13,244
It had been done before, but it hadn't been done a lot.

824
00:47:13,304 --> 00:47:14,644
Normally, on a jazz session, you

825
00:47:15,984 --> 00:47:19,544
set up just like on a gig in a jazz club. You're right next to each other.

826
00:47:19,584 --> 00:47:21,824
And they were in what they used to call the church.

827
00:47:22,084 --> 00:47:25,144
It was an old church on 30th Street in, I believe East 30th Street.

828
00:47:25,184 --> 00:47:29,024
It's long gone now. The Columbia recording studios in New York

829
00:47:29,144 --> 00:47:33,004
City, it was an old chapel church, and they had a lot of room.

830
00:47:33,054 --> 00:47:36,484
And they separated the instruments, not in different rooms, multi-track,

831
00:47:36,984 --> 00:47:40,894
but enough where they could isolate and get that particular sound on each of

832
00:47:40,924 --> 00:47:43,044
the instrument, which is really breathtaking.

833
00:47:43,284 --> 00:47:46,604
We take it for granted, and we're like, Miles coming in with that harmon mute.

834
00:47:47,284 --> 00:47:49,864
Yeah. We got a little clip here of Jimmy Cobb actually talking about that.

835
00:47:49,944 --> 00:47:50,034
Yeah.

836
00:47:50,414 --> 00:47:50,764
The drummer.

837
00:47:50,804 --> 00:47:51,133
The drummer.

838
00:47:51,144 --> 00:47:52,124
His drums were in a place, like

839
00:47:53,324 --> 00:47:53,764
baffled-

840
00:47:53,884 --> 00:47:54,644
Yeah

841
00:47:54,654 --> 00:47:56,834
... with some stuff around it, so he wouldn't feed into the

842
00:47:58,044 --> 00:47:58,904
rest of the stuff.

843
00:47:58,984 --> 00:47:59,284
Yeah.

844
00:47:59,784 --> 00:48:03,664
Then the piano was in some place with a cloth or something over, so it-

845
00:48:03,984 --> 00:48:04,414
Cloth over it

846
00:48:04,414 --> 00:48:06,124
... the rest of the band wouldn't feed into that.

847
00:48:07,784 --> 00:48:11,764
So it was all separated from each

848
00:48:11,824 --> 00:48:11,984
other.

849
00:48:12,034 --> 00:48:12,534
Yeah.

850
00:48:12,054 --> 00:48:15,624
But so to get the right sound that the engineers want.

851
00:48:15,964 --> 00:48:18,394
He's just coming, that's how simple it is.

852
00:48:18,424 --> 00:48:20,444
So instead of being real tightly packed together-

853
00:48:20,544 --> 00:48:20,584
Yeah

854
00:48:20,604 --> 00:48:23,904
... with the mics all close together, they were in different parts of the room,

855
00:48:24,164 --> 00:48:25,124
separated from each other-

856
00:48:25,224 --> 00:48:25,234
Yeah

857
00:48:25,234 --> 00:48:27,404
... more isolated, which is now very much the norm-

858
00:48:27,784 --> 00:48:27,974
Yeah. Oh, yeah

859
00:48:27,974 --> 00:48:28,984
... whenever you do anything.

860
00:48:29,424 --> 00:48:32,263
But I think that it had an effect on the way they play, because you see the

861
00:48:32,304 --> 00:48:34,024
pictures. There's no video footage of it.

862
00:48:34,284 --> 00:48:37,504
There is of them playing "So What" from another session from that NBC thing.

863
00:48:38,064 --> 00:48:41,464
But you see pictures of them, and Miles is at the piano, and Bill Evans, these

864
00:48:41,524 --> 00:48:44,364
classic, beautiful pictures. We'll have them on the show.

865
00:48:44,744 --> 00:48:48,684
But it's like they're very much together, kind of learning

866
00:48:48,744 --> 00:48:52,264
this new music. Miles' just little sketches and stuff.

867
00:48:52,604 --> 00:48:56,004
And then they go to record one take. Now, there were some false starts.

868
00:48:56,044 --> 00:48:56,384
We're going to hear-

869
00:48:56,664 --> 00:48:56,714
Yeah

870
00:48:56,724 --> 00:48:57,184
... a few of those.

871
00:48:57,224 --> 00:48:59,074
They're shooting a lot of darts. There's a lot of-

872
00:48:59,124 --> 00:48:59,174
Yeah

873
00:48:59,174 --> 00:48:59,804
... cigarette smoke.

874
00:49:00,224 --> 00:49:03,924
Yeah, but there's also, they're kind of far away, so they have to listen.

875
00:49:03,964 --> 00:49:07,374
So I've always thought that this was... I actually asked Jimmy Cobb.

876
00:49:07,624 --> 00:49:11,364
So Jimmy Cobb, the drummer that we just heard, was by decades the

877
00:49:11,404 --> 00:49:15,294
longest living memberIn fact, he only passed away within the last

878
00:49:15,324 --> 00:49:19,294
10 years. But he was the one member that was

879
00:49:19,364 --> 00:49:22,874
still around, and his memory of that session, although I'm sure he was sick of

880
00:49:22,874 --> 00:49:26,604
people going, "Tell me about 'Kind of Blue.'" He had this long career, thousands of

881
00:49:26,644 --> 00:49:27,344
records.

882
00:49:27,364 --> 00:49:27,394
Yeah.

883
00:49:27,404 --> 00:49:27,614
But,

884
00:49:29,404 --> 00:49:32,684
I think that that really had an effect, that they were a little bit,

885
00:49:33,344 --> 00:49:36,384
they had to listen. They were a little bit out of their element.

886
00:49:37,004 --> 00:49:39,023
So they had to maybe play a little bit more simple.

887
00:49:39,604 --> 00:49:39,904
And,

888
00:49:41,004 --> 00:49:44,854
I don't know that it's just one of those things that happened, but that

889
00:49:44,924 --> 00:49:48,164
also enabled, as he said, the engineers to get this incredible sound on each of the

890
00:49:48,224 --> 00:49:51,624
instruments, which is really unmatched in anything Miles has done, I think.

891
00:49:51,964 --> 00:49:54,504
Yeah. Next up is, "All Blues."

892
00:49:55,444 --> 00:49:55,724
Ooh.

893
00:49:59,664 --> 00:50:01,164
A blues in G, in three-four.

894
00:50:01,324 --> 00:50:01,464
Yeah.

895
00:50:03,984 --> 00:50:04,884
Second blues of the album.

896
00:50:05,084 --> 00:50:05,504
Of course.

897
00:50:09,644 --> 00:50:12,524
But, they're both blues, but you know what the thing is, man?

898
00:50:13,224 --> 00:50:14,923
Miles rubbed the edges off of these.

899
00:50:15,124 --> 00:50:15,344
I know.

900
00:50:15,404 --> 00:50:16,624
Harmonically. You know what I mean?

901
00:50:16,673 --> 00:50:17,173
Yeah.

902
00:50:16,684 --> 00:50:18,884
Even this has this suspended sound-

903
00:50:18,914 --> 00:50:19,064
Yeah

904
00:50:19,074 --> 00:50:21,124
... where it's like, it's not just like-

905
00:50:21,214 --> 00:50:22,004
It's a modal blues.

906
00:50:22,024 --> 00:50:23,684
It's just, it's not that.

907
00:50:23,864 --> 00:50:23,874
Yeah.

908
00:50:24,204 --> 00:50:24,404
It's-

909
00:50:25,024 --> 00:50:25,104
Yeah

910
00:50:25,124 --> 00:50:25,584
... sort of like,

911
00:50:27,684 --> 00:50:29,524
pastel nature to it almost.

912
00:50:31,724 --> 00:50:32,964
Yeah. It's like a Long Island blues.

913
00:50:34,304 --> 00:50:34,964
No? I don't know.

914
00:50:35,004 --> 00:50:35,324
Is it?

915
00:50:35,644 --> 00:50:36,924
I haven't been there in a while.

916
00:50:37,084 --> 00:50:37,404
Is it?

917
00:50:40,604 --> 00:50:41,444
And then those chords.

918
00:50:41,604 --> 00:50:41,824
Yeah.

919
00:50:41,924 --> 00:50:42,724
Very unusual.

920
00:50:48,484 --> 00:50:52,294
And Jimmy Cobb is using brushes on the snare drum, so it's that

921
00:50:52,844 --> 00:50:54,944
texture. That micing of this is stunning.

922
00:50:54,984 --> 00:50:55,974
It sounds so amazing.

923
00:50:55,994 --> 00:50:56,124
Yeah.

924
00:50:56,384 --> 00:50:57,324
It sounds so amazing.

925
00:50:58,784 --> 00:51:01,884
This is pre-internet, by the way, just to let you guys know how long ago this was.

926
00:51:02,584 --> 00:51:03,464
1959.

927
00:51:05,704 --> 00:51:06,284
Pre-Adam.

928
00:51:07,954 --> 00:51:08,264
Pre-Peter.

929
00:51:08,404 --> 00:51:09,904
Yeah. Well, yeah.

930
00:51:15,914 --> 00:51:17,424
Another melodic bass line.

931
00:51:17,484 --> 00:51:18,064
Yeah.

932
00:51:18,164 --> 00:51:18,964
While the horns are

933
00:51:26,904 --> 00:51:27,404
...

934
00:51:26,924 --> 00:51:28,084
On the start of Miles' solo.

935
00:51:28,544 --> 00:51:29,974
Oh, when Jimmy Cobb goes to the sticks?

936
00:51:30,324 --> 00:51:31,644
Just take a minute. Just take a second.

937
00:51:32,104 --> 00:51:32,964
Yeah.

938
00:51:33,044 --> 00:51:33,624
We got to switch.

939
00:51:33,784 --> 00:51:34,224
Little bam.

940
00:51:35,304 --> 00:51:36,524
Jimmy Cobb goes to the sticks.

941
00:51:36,964 --> 00:51:36,974
He's getting into those.

942
00:51:36,984 --> 00:51:38,104
Yeah. Oh.

943
00:51:41,104 --> 00:51:41,384
Woo.

944
00:51:42,864 --> 00:51:43,284
Excellent.

945
00:51:43,884 --> 00:51:44,144
Oh.

946
00:51:44,224 --> 00:51:44,824
It's excellent.

947
00:51:45,034 --> 00:51:45,344
Oh.

948
00:51:47,664 --> 00:51:49,104
Talk about not missing a beat. Damn.

949
00:51:49,144 --> 00:51:50,544
Also, Miles took the harmon mute out.

950
00:51:50,764 --> 00:51:50,904
Yeah.

951
00:51:54,484 --> 00:51:54,494
Oh.

952
00:52:11,524 --> 00:52:12,944
There's just four chords in this whole...

953
00:52:26,794 --> 00:52:28,064
Man, Miles knew when to reach.

954
00:52:41,884 --> 00:52:43,664
Falls off that so beautifully.

955
00:52:44,344 --> 00:52:44,644
Woo.

956
00:52:48,824 --> 00:52:50,524
Man, to be so far in your solo

957
00:52:51,444 --> 00:52:52,784
and still leaving all this space.

958
00:52:53,024 --> 00:52:53,304
Yeah.

959
00:52:55,064 --> 00:52:56,084
I bet Trane's not going to do that.

960
00:52:57,404 --> 00:53:01,244
But that's why it works so well. That's why Miles and Trane are such an

961
00:53:01,324 --> 00:53:02,714
unstoppable combination.

962
00:53:02,994 --> 00:53:03,494
Oh, okay.

963
00:53:03,004 --> 00:53:03,434
Because they,

964
00:53:04,564 --> 00:53:08,254
just when you're mesmerized here by Miles'

965
00:53:08,504 --> 00:53:09,024
charisma-

966
00:53:09,284 --> 00:53:09,324
Yeah

967
00:53:09,344 --> 00:53:10,284
... and sophistication,

968
00:53:11,164 --> 00:53:14,064
Trane comes in and punches you in the nose.

969
00:53:17,944 --> 00:53:18,304
Yeah.

970
00:53:20,334 --> 00:53:28,444
And

971
00:53:28,464 --> 00:53:30,064
Bill Evans is using a very

972
00:53:31,663 --> 00:53:33,024
limited number of chords.

973
00:53:34,024 --> 00:53:34,264
Yeah.

974
00:53:34,304 --> 00:53:34,944
Of voicing.

975
00:53:34,993 --> 00:53:35,384
That's right.

976
00:53:37,804 --> 00:53:41,404
Even between this and "So What," a lot of

977
00:53:41,564 --> 00:53:42,184
overlap.

978
00:53:42,224 --> 00:53:44,344
He's comping with colors instead of with melodies.

979
00:53:44,404 --> 00:53:44,704
Yeah.

980
00:53:44,744 --> 00:53:44,894
He's-

981
00:53:44,924 --> 00:53:48,804
And it's very much like in the, and Jimmy Cobb, they're playing

982
00:53:48,844 --> 00:53:52,184
as a band. Nobody's like, "I'm going to do all this." It's just like every little

983
00:53:52,284 --> 00:53:52,464
part-

984
00:53:53,044 --> 00:53:53,104
Yeah

985
00:53:53,164 --> 00:53:54,784
... they're listening at a level.

986
00:53:55,944 --> 00:53:55,964
Yeah.

987
00:53:57,204 --> 00:53:57,744
Cannonball.

988
00:53:57,884 --> 00:53:58,104
Oh.

989
00:54:09,524 --> 00:54:10,084
Come on, man.

990
00:54:10,604 --> 00:54:10,844
Yeah.

991
00:54:13,474 --> 00:54:15,204
And he's dancing back and forth from that

992
00:54:17,024 --> 00:54:19,144
straight blues and more modal blues, right?

993
00:54:21,904 --> 00:54:24,424
Yeah.

994
00:54:33,324 --> 00:54:45,424
Ooh.

995
00:54:49,044 --> 00:54:49,464
Oh.

996
00:54:52,274 --> 00:54:55,724
Cool. Let's show them just a little bit, like we talked about, there's just four

997
00:54:55,804 --> 00:54:59,664
chords on this. There's this chord, the G seven, but it's

998
00:54:59,724 --> 00:55:01,304
got, like you alluded to this, like-

999
00:55:02,564 --> 00:55:02,574
Yeah

1000
00:55:02,574 --> 00:55:05,944
... it's got that little bit of suspended thing that Miles really articulates.

1001
00:55:07,364 --> 00:55:08,584
Yeah, so instead of like a-

1002
00:55:08,654 --> 00:55:09,124
And then Bill Evans is supporting it

1003
00:55:09,164 --> 00:55:09,824
... instead of like a-

1004
00:55:10,624 --> 00:55:10,804
Yeah

1005
00:55:10,924 --> 00:55:12,164
... like a blue, quote

1006
00:55:12,204 --> 00:55:15,168
unquoteYeah.

1007
00:55:16,228 --> 00:55:19,428
Instead of the cartoon version of that, it's got this like-

1008
00:55:21,028 --> 00:55:21,168
Yeah

1009
00:55:22,048 --> 00:55:24,868
... it's like a charcoal drawing almost.

1010
00:55:24,908 --> 00:55:25,848
But what fits over it-

1011
00:55:25,888 --> 00:55:27,028
It blends into the paper.

1012
00:55:27,188 --> 00:55:27,928
What fits over is...

1013
00:55:32,308 --> 00:55:33,388
It's that same sound, right?

1014
00:55:33,648 --> 00:55:34,668
Mashup time.

1015
00:55:34,748 --> 00:55:38,208
Come on, mashup. Hello. Miles Davis 100.

1016
00:55:38,508 --> 00:55:39,548
One thing-

1017
00:55:41,358 --> 00:55:41,588
Miles Davis 100.

1018
00:55:41,628 --> 00:55:42,188
Woo-hoo.

1019
00:55:42,748 --> 00:55:44,008
One thing I want to point out, Peter, is-

1020
00:55:44,088 --> 00:55:47,058
But that's like a thematic thing, because we're 20 minutes-

1021
00:55:47,118 --> 00:55:47,598
The whole thing. Yeah

1022
00:55:47,598 --> 00:55:47,988
... later in the record.

1023
00:55:48,088 --> 00:55:48,378
Well, and the same thing with-

1024
00:55:48,388 --> 00:55:51,208
And they're calling back to this. Yeah.

1025
00:55:52,668 --> 00:55:55,948
All of those chords. Even the first chord of Blue in Green

1026
00:55:56,688 --> 00:55:58,108
is this beautiful-

1027
00:55:58,868 --> 00:55:59,328
That's another sus.

1028
00:55:59,388 --> 00:56:01,968
It's a G minor 13 chord. Ever heard of it?

1029
00:56:02,148 --> 00:56:03,668
Actually, it's a G minor 6-7.

1030
00:56:04,108 --> 00:56:04,388
Stop.

1031
00:56:04,518 --> 00:56:04,528
It is.

1032
00:56:04,548 --> 00:56:05,598
Would you stop with that s**t, please?

1033
00:56:05,628 --> 00:56:06,388
It is.

1034
00:56:06,448 --> 00:56:06,488
Don't ever.

1035
00:56:06,528 --> 00:56:08,788
That's the six and that's the seven. Hey.

1036
00:56:08,808 --> 00:56:10,448
I'm about to leave. All right.

1037
00:56:11,508 --> 00:56:12,648
But it's this chord, which

1038
00:56:13,748 --> 00:56:14,848
it's like

1039
00:56:15,988 --> 00:56:17,868
Blue in Green. It has this like-

1040
00:56:18,728 --> 00:56:21,228
It's got a nostalgic, forlorn, kind of

1041
00:56:22,128 --> 00:56:22,708
pensive-

1042
00:56:23,348 --> 00:56:24,368
And then franch?

1043
00:56:25,128 --> 00:56:25,288
Yeah.

1044
00:56:25,568 --> 00:56:26,388
Yeah. For sure.

1045
00:56:26,408 --> 00:56:27,348
Je ne sais quoi.

1046
00:56:28,488 --> 00:56:28,948
Adam.

1047
00:56:29,248 --> 00:56:29,528
Okay.

1048
00:56:31,748 --> 00:56:34,888
But just real quick again. So that's the first chord, and then the second chord,

1049
00:56:35,568 --> 00:56:36,418
C7, but it's-

1050
00:56:36,608 --> 00:56:37,068
But it's not

1051
00:56:37,328 --> 00:56:37,708
It's not.

1052
00:56:37,798 --> 00:56:38,298
Yeah.

1053
00:56:37,828 --> 00:56:41,108
Well, it's the same as the G, but up a fourth, right?

1054
00:56:41,228 --> 00:56:42,228
With that same sussy.

1055
00:56:42,388 --> 00:56:43,788
The same sussy kind of thing, yeah.

1056
00:56:44,008 --> 00:56:44,688
And then these two,

1057
00:56:45,928 --> 00:56:47,888
very obtuse sharp nines.

1058
00:56:48,728 --> 00:56:48,988
Right?

1059
00:56:50,068 --> 00:56:50,108
Yeah.

1060
00:56:50,148 --> 00:56:51,248
And then back to the same.

1061
00:56:51,308 --> 00:56:51,688
Oh, yeah.

1062
00:56:51,968 --> 00:56:55,108
There's four chords, and it's just like they created this world.

1063
00:56:55,208 --> 00:56:55,718
Which, by the way, this is not-

1064
00:56:55,728 --> 00:56:58,408
And if you don't know chords, you're probably like, "Who cares?" And I get it.

1065
00:56:58,708 --> 00:57:02,618
But it's like if you think about a painter that just, four colors,

1066
00:57:02,948 --> 00:57:05,368
but creates this incredible world with it.

1067
00:57:05,488 --> 00:57:05,648
Yeah.

1068
00:57:05,828 --> 00:57:07,248
But a group of them doing it together.

1069
00:57:07,288 --> 00:57:07,588
And this-

1070
00:57:07,708 --> 00:57:07,798
Funny

1071
00:57:07,798 --> 00:57:09,068
... that move that happens on the five?

1072
00:57:09,128 --> 00:57:09,307
Yeah.

1073
00:57:10,808 --> 00:57:12,028
That's not like a standard move.

1074
00:57:12,068 --> 00:57:12,188
No.

1075
00:57:12,608 --> 00:57:14,528
That's like the Miles move, you know?

1076
00:57:14,848 --> 00:57:14,908
Yeah.

1077
00:57:15,528 --> 00:57:19,008
One thing I want to highlight is just how long Bill Evans just

1078
00:57:19,108 --> 00:57:19,708
trills.

1079
00:57:20,268 --> 00:57:20,278
Yeah.

1080
00:57:20,308 --> 00:57:23,348
I took all the horns out in the beginning. He's just trilling forever.

1081
00:57:23,368 --> 00:57:23,438
Yeah, yeah.

1082
00:57:23,438 --> 00:57:23,927
Listen to this.

1083
00:57:26,918 --> 00:57:28,288
That's discipline right there.

1084
00:57:31,808 --> 00:57:33,348
Yeah, I'd be like...

1085
00:57:35,748 --> 00:57:36,177
Oh, I know.

1086
00:57:37,628 --> 00:57:39,168
I know. I know what you'd be doing.

1087
00:57:39,988 --> 00:57:40,748
You could put on that.

1088
00:57:41,268 --> 00:57:41,988
Noodles over here.

1089
00:57:44,268 --> 00:57:45,108
He's still trilling, man.

1090
00:57:45,158 --> 00:57:45,658
I know.

1091
00:57:45,168 --> 00:57:45,748
He's still going.

1092
00:57:46,468 --> 00:57:47,768
That's the gig, dude. Come on, man.

1093
00:57:48,088 --> 00:57:51,648
By the way, that's not like da-da-da-da. Those are in time.

1094
00:57:52,028 --> 00:57:52,268
Yeah.

1095
00:57:54,068 --> 00:57:55,118
Yeah, it's just four notes.

1096
00:57:56,308 --> 00:57:57,128
He's still trilling.

1097
00:57:57,348 --> 00:57:57,688
Right.

1098
00:57:57,728 --> 00:57:58,408
He's still trilling.

1099
00:57:58,448 --> 00:57:59,698
He got carpal tunnel from all this trilling.

1100
00:57:59,698 --> 00:58:00,688
Straight up chill is trilling.

1101
00:58:01,948 --> 00:58:02,528
Still trilling.

1102
00:58:02,888 --> 00:58:03,068
Yeah.

1103
00:58:04,308 --> 00:58:05,268
We're 40 seconds in.

1104
00:58:05,448 --> 00:58:05,648
Yeah.

1105
00:58:06,928 --> 00:58:07,768
Not trilling. Okay.

1106
00:58:08,648 --> 00:58:09,618
Yeah. Nice. Thank you.

1107
00:58:09,648 --> 00:58:13,638
The last track on the album is one of the most beautiful

1108
00:58:13,748 --> 00:58:15,408
pieces of music ever recorded.

1109
00:58:15,848 --> 00:58:15,968
Mm.

1110
00:58:16,068 --> 00:58:19,908
It's called Flamenco Sketches, and it sounds a lot like this.

1111
00:58:28,558 --> 00:58:29,908
This is not Flamenco Sketches.

1112
00:58:30,068 --> 00:58:30,517
No. Wow.

1113
00:58:30,528 --> 00:58:34,428
This is Peace Piece by Bill Evans, which came out a year earlier on Everybody

1114
00:58:34,508 --> 00:58:35,348
Digs Bill Evans.

1115
00:58:35,388 --> 00:58:36,368
Yeah. Riverside Records.

1116
00:58:36,988 --> 00:58:39,308
And Miles took that little intro, made this.

1117
00:58:43,888 --> 00:58:44,677
Sounds similar.

1118
00:58:44,677 --> 00:58:45,188
Sounds similar.

1119
00:58:46,728 --> 00:58:48,508
It's also the same pianist, so there's that.

1120
00:59:07,998 --> 00:59:09,338
There's no melody to this song, right?

1121
00:59:09,508 --> 00:59:09,788
This is-

1122
00:59:09,848 --> 00:59:09,988
No.

1123
00:59:10,088 --> 00:59:10,528
There's no melody.

1124
00:59:10,548 --> 00:59:11,708
It's just a sketch.

1125
00:59:11,728 --> 00:59:12,478
Five chords, essentially.

1126
00:59:12,478 --> 00:59:12,498
Five chords.

1127
00:59:12,517 --> 00:59:12,948
It's a sketch.

1128
00:59:25,028 --> 00:59:32,778
Mm.

1129
00:59:38,508 --> 00:59:39,688
See? Imperfection there.

1130
00:59:40,288 --> 00:59:42,048
Small, but beautiful.

1131
00:59:47,168 --> 00:59:51,048
And this is the pivot chord.

1132
00:59:57,828 --> 00:59:59,388
Little Sketches of Spain vibe.

1133
01:00:10,708 --> 01:00:12,068
This is the most

1134
01:00:13,048 --> 01:00:13,748
tension, right?

1135
01:00:20,528 --> 01:00:21,408
And the resolution.

1136
01:00:27,548 --> 01:00:28,468
Absolutely gorgeous.

1137
01:00:38,348 --> 01:00:39,548
He already went back to the C.

1138
01:00:40,188 --> 01:00:40,568
Yeah.

1139
01:00:40,608 --> 01:00:40,988
Yeah, see?

1140
01:00:42,248 --> 01:00:45,508
He's going to go with it. That's the top of the form right there.

1141
01:00:46,028 --> 01:00:46,708
John Coltrane.

1142
01:01:54,638 --> 01:01:56,178
Oh, he found it. He found it.

1143
01:02:17,258 --> 01:02:17,878
That's one of the

1144
01:02:18,758 --> 01:02:20,978
greatest... Yeah. Give it up for John Coltrane.

1145
01:02:23,738 --> 01:02:25,118
That's one of his most unique

1146
01:02:25,978 --> 01:02:26,398
solos,

1147
01:02:27,558 --> 01:02:31,478
for sure. There's elements that are almost out of character for Trane, in

1148
01:02:31,758 --> 01:02:34,517
a beautiful way. And this Cannonball solo is amazing.

1149
01:02:34,918 --> 01:02:37,858
I just wanted to point out that three times on this,

1150
01:02:38,858 --> 01:02:42,418
somebody went to the next chord at the "wrong time."

1151
01:02:42,498 --> 01:02:42,818
Yeah, that's right.

1152
01:02:42,858 --> 01:02:46,798
And what's so exciting about this, this song, it's not played a lot because

1153
01:02:48,278 --> 01:02:51,158
it doesn't have a melody. You have to create the melody. That's the whole thing.

1154
01:02:51,198 --> 01:02:52,198
It's just five chords.

1155
01:02:53,518 --> 01:02:56,798
Yeah. Also, it's really hard to pull it off.

1156
01:02:56,978 --> 01:02:57,178
Yeah.

1157
01:02:57,278 --> 01:02:59,018
It's very difficult to pull that song off.

1158
01:02:59,218 --> 01:03:01,518
Right, without Paul Chambers and Bill Evans.

1159
01:03:01,548 --> 01:03:02,598
Yeah. You do a great job of that one.

1160
01:03:02,838 --> 01:03:02,848
Yeah.

1161
01:03:02,858 --> 01:03:05,878
It's one of my favorite songs to hear you play, Peter. I think you just nail it.

1162
01:03:05,958 --> 01:03:07,068
But did you notice that

1163
01:03:08,918 --> 01:03:10,918
Paul Chambers went to the C at the wrong place?

1164
01:03:11,438 --> 01:03:11,478
Yeah.

1165
01:03:11,518 --> 01:03:15,478
But the way that he went to it, he didn't, oh, jump off of it like he

1166
01:03:15,518 --> 01:03:18,358
made a mistake. He played the wrong note-

1167
01:03:18,378 --> 01:03:19,098
It's part of it, man

1168
01:03:19,108 --> 01:03:20,298
... and then went right back.

1169
01:03:20,418 --> 01:03:20,688
It's part of it.

1170
01:03:20,688 --> 01:03:24,278
And it became... Yeah. And so that's what I meant by it's not a perfect album.

1171
01:03:25,358 --> 01:03:28,598
But if they had done another take and said, "Okay, we're going to fix this.

1172
01:03:28,658 --> 01:03:29,978
Come on, look at the charts, guys."

1173
01:03:30,078 --> 01:03:30,238
That's right.

1174
01:03:30,248 --> 01:03:32,398
"You missed it. Eight bars. One, two."

1175
01:03:33,258 --> 01:03:35,498
Then what would they have lost from that vibe?

1176
01:03:35,538 --> 01:03:39,338
So that's the Miles genius. He's making his biggest budget

1177
01:03:39,398 --> 01:03:42,358
record, Columbia Records, of his career.

1178
01:03:42,438 --> 01:03:42,448
He

1179
01:03:43,538 --> 01:03:46,418
was already famous, even beyond the jazz world.

1180
01:03:46,458 --> 01:03:46,488
But-

1181
01:03:46,488 --> 01:03:47,538
But he was at the cusp of like-

1182
01:03:47,548 --> 01:03:48,698
Just to push back now.

1183
01:03:48,758 --> 01:03:48,818
Yeah.

1184
01:03:48,838 --> 01:03:50,198
Can we have this conversation now?

1185
01:03:50,258 --> 01:03:50,658
Yes.

1186
01:03:50,698 --> 01:03:54,398
Doesn't the fact that Miles and this band is

1187
01:03:54,458 --> 01:03:57,398
leaving room for that kind of allowing-

1188
01:03:57,658 --> 01:03:57,798
Yeah

1189
01:03:57,958 --> 01:04:01,898
... for that kind of being with each other and being with everybody's

1190
01:04:01,908 --> 01:04:02,448
"mistakes"-

1191
01:04:03,578 --> 01:04:03,658
Yeah

1192
01:04:03,818 --> 01:04:05,498
... letting it happen, leaving it in the music.

1193
01:04:05,698 --> 01:04:09,618
One take, we get what we get because this is about us in this room

1194
01:04:09,678 --> 01:04:10,198
right now.

1195
01:04:10,378 --> 01:04:10,478
Yeah.

1196
01:04:11,358 --> 01:04:13,298
That is perfect, right? That is perfection.

1197
01:04:13,358 --> 01:04:15,938
The imperfections of that make it perfect.

1198
01:04:15,978 --> 01:04:17,078
Well, yeah. What you just said.

1199
01:04:17,118 --> 01:04:17,598
Come on.

1200
01:04:17,658 --> 01:04:20,258
The imperfections of it make it perfect.

1201
01:04:20,758 --> 01:04:24,538
The imperfections. Absolutely. No, but we

1202
01:04:24,638 --> 01:04:26,878
highlight that because it's like in nature.

1203
01:04:26,938 --> 01:04:30,338
It's like finding the imperfections that are perfectly executed.

1204
01:04:30,398 --> 01:04:33,298
It's just like in this room right now, as we record this show.

1205
01:04:34,598 --> 01:04:36,678
We've yet to make a mistake, but when we do-

1206
01:04:36,858 --> 01:04:36,978
No

1207
01:04:37,538 --> 01:04:38,118
... we're going to leave it in.

1208
01:04:38,138 --> 01:04:40,458
It'll be perfectly executed. Should we get to some categories?

1209
01:04:40,538 --> 01:04:41,638
Let's get to some categories.

1210
01:04:41,718 --> 01:04:43,738
Okay. We always do these on every episode.

1211
01:04:43,778 --> 01:04:45,358
If you've been listening, you will know this.

1212
01:04:46,158 --> 01:04:46,698
Hold on. Before we get off-

1213
01:04:46,738 --> 01:04:48,648
We have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight categories. What?

1214
01:04:48,678 --> 01:04:50,578
Before we get off that, I just want to hear a flamenco sketch.

1215
01:04:51,018 --> 01:04:54,258
You have a piece of audio that you loaded into this iPad that says, "Flamenco

1216
01:04:54,318 --> 01:04:57,158
sketches, floor squeaks." I've just got to know what this is.

1217
01:04:57,168 --> 01:04:57,518
Oh, yeah.

1218
01:04:59,158 --> 01:05:00,658
The damn thing, man.

1219
01:05:02,898 --> 01:05:03,198
This is-

1220
01:05:03,318 --> 01:05:04,858
Take two. Sorry

1221
01:05:04,918 --> 01:05:05,558
... in the studio.

1222
01:05:07,338 --> 01:05:07,488
Wait

1223
01:05:08,778 --> 01:05:08,818
a minute.

1224
01:05:08,938 --> 01:05:09,258
Miles.

1225
01:05:09,748 --> 01:05:10,038
Wait.

1226
01:05:10,918 --> 01:05:11,218
Okay.

1227
01:05:12,338 --> 01:05:15,858
Hey, when you raise up off this stool, man, you get... Oh, yeah.

1228
01:05:17,458 --> 01:05:18,728
You know, your floor squeaks.

1229
01:05:20,818 --> 01:05:21,428
You know what I mean? Can you hear me?

1230
01:05:21,458 --> 01:05:21,978
Oh, literally.

1231
01:05:22,518 --> 01:05:22,798
Yeah.

1232
01:05:23,578 --> 01:05:25,658
Keep going.

1233
01:05:25,718 --> 01:05:26,218
Let's go.

1234
01:05:28,798 --> 01:05:30,698
That's hands on the strings, Paul Chambers.

1235
01:05:31,718 --> 01:05:34,118
Take two.

1236
01:05:35,078 --> 01:05:38,058
Wow. It sounds like a Stanley Kubrick movie or something.

1237
01:05:38,338 --> 01:05:38,558
Yeah.

1238
01:05:39,408 --> 01:05:43,118
It's amazing. But that's how loose it was, but it was also because there's another,

1239
01:05:43,458 --> 01:05:46,718
these are little outtakes. They weren't complete takes. They were false starts.

1240
01:05:46,758 --> 01:05:48,758
Sometimes they would start and the producer would be like, "Hold on.

1241
01:05:48,818 --> 01:05:52,778
Go again." Because Miles, you can see it in the pictures, was on this stool, and

1242
01:05:52,798 --> 01:05:56,638
he had this really cool scarf or ascot, a

1243
01:05:57,218 --> 01:05:58,558
scascot or something.

1244
01:05:59,398 --> 01:06:01,598
It was some kind of cool. He was a fashionista.

1245
01:06:02,858 --> 01:06:03,478
But he-

1246
01:06:03,658 --> 01:06:04,238
Scascot

1247
01:06:04,278 --> 01:06:08,178
... he's on this stool, but he's so relaxed and he would, you can hear it

1248
01:06:08,218 --> 01:06:08,718
on some of it-

1249
01:06:08,838 --> 01:06:08,968
Yeah

1250
01:06:08,978 --> 01:06:11,318
... like on flamenco sketches, it creaking.

1251
01:06:11,738 --> 01:06:13,938
And so the producer had stopped him at the end and he's like, "Start again,"

1252
01:06:14,018 --> 01:06:17,568
because and that's why Miles was like, "Well, you've got a creaky floor here."

1253
01:06:18,018 --> 01:06:21,268
And then he said, "Yeah, but the snare is making it." And Miles, on another one, is

1254
01:06:21,338 --> 01:06:22,608
like, "Yeah, that's part of the music.

1255
01:06:22,638 --> 01:06:23,118
Let's go."

1256
01:06:23,198 --> 01:06:23,748
Yeah.

1257
01:06:23,758 --> 01:06:27,198
It's just so fun to hear. And this is on the legacy edition, if you want to really

1258
01:06:27,218 --> 01:06:28,498
nerd out. They have a few of the

1259
01:06:29,558 --> 01:06:31,178
false starts and outtakes and stuff.

1260
01:06:32,018 --> 01:06:35,318
Okay. Peter, let's get to some categories. What is your desert island track?

1261
01:06:35,358 --> 01:06:37,858
If you could only take one track from this album, which would it be?

1262
01:06:40,218 --> 01:06:42,678
Desert or dessert? I'm always confused on that.

1263
01:06:42,688 --> 01:06:43,198
Oh, would you stop, okay?

1264
01:06:43,288 --> 01:06:46,038
Okay, sorry. Desert island track. I'm going to go All Blues.

1265
01:06:46,368 --> 01:06:46,988
All Blues. Great call.

1266
01:06:47,018 --> 01:06:50,358
Yeah. But this is the rare album where

1267
01:06:50,398 --> 01:06:54,218
it could be any of them, for different reasons, but All Blues has some of the

1268
01:06:54,238 --> 01:06:56,958
most incredible solos, although other stuff does too, but I love it.

1269
01:06:57,178 --> 01:06:57,498
What do you got?

1270
01:06:57,738 --> 01:06:59,758
I'm very basic, so I'm going So What.

1271
01:06:59,818 --> 01:06:59,978
Okay.

1272
01:07:00,178 --> 01:07:03,218
I think it's one of my all-time favorite tracks ever, honestly.

1273
01:07:03,318 --> 01:07:03,328
Great.

1274
01:07:03,338 --> 01:07:06,958
As we listen to it tonight, I realize I could listen to it

1275
01:07:07,298 --> 01:07:07,368
all the time.

1276
01:07:07,398 --> 01:07:07,938
Oh, it's so great.

1277
01:07:07,958 --> 01:07:08,138
Yeah.

1278
01:07:08,198 --> 01:07:08,298
Yeah.

1279
01:07:09,258 --> 01:07:12,518
What about an apex moment? What is your apex moment of this album?

1280
01:07:12,578 --> 01:07:15,818
Okay. So there's some really good choices on this album.

1281
01:07:15,858 --> 01:07:19,638
Normally, it would be the greatest moment on the

1282
01:07:19,738 --> 01:07:21,718
album, the greatest part of a solo.

1283
01:07:22,258 --> 01:07:25,726
But this album has so many, I like-This comes in waves, in a way.

1284
01:07:25,786 --> 01:07:27,986
It's like I said, it's a short album, but it's epic, right?

1285
01:07:28,486 --> 01:07:32,366
So there's a lot of really good choices, and to me, there's no one place

1286
01:07:32,406 --> 01:07:36,226
where you're like, "This is the greatest moment of the album." But 'Train Entering'

1287
01:07:36,446 --> 01:07:40,366
on Blue in Green, if you play it around 2:20 on that, we can hear just a little

1288
01:07:40,425 --> 01:07:42,286
bit of it. I think it's stunning.

1289
01:07:59,926 --> 01:08:03,666
Yeah, and then the whole solo, but the way he starts that, his tone, it's

1290
01:08:03,746 --> 01:08:07,046
almost no vibrato. His intonation, his sound-

1291
01:08:07,206 --> 01:08:07,236
Yeah

1292
01:08:07,236 --> 01:08:07,766
... it's so-

1293
01:08:08,006 --> 01:08:08,716
Very vulnerable

1294
01:08:08,716 --> 01:08:10,266
... touching. Very vulnerable.

1295
01:08:10,366 --> 01:08:10,466
Yeah.

1296
01:08:10,476 --> 01:08:13,556
Yeah. And it's just got a little bit of vibrato around the edges at times.

1297
01:08:14,135 --> 01:08:15,036
It's so direct, you know?

1298
01:08:15,036 --> 01:08:15,886
It's a genius.

1299
01:08:16,286 --> 01:08:16,776
What do you got for your apex?

1300
01:08:16,786 --> 01:08:20,266
I'm going to go with, and this is also my hot take, the

1301
01:08:20,346 --> 01:08:22,906
greatest three notes in music history.

1302
01:08:28,605 --> 01:08:30,717
Miles' solo on So What.

1303
01:08:31,986 --> 01:08:32,677
Doesn't get any better.

1304
01:08:33,126 --> 01:08:36,887
He just wants to show off how he can separate the instruments, which he can.

1305
01:08:38,967 --> 01:08:39,306
I just think-

1306
01:08:39,346 --> 01:08:39,956
It's such a great-

1307
01:08:40,226 --> 01:08:42,406
It's such an iconic moment, right?

1308
01:08:42,526 --> 01:08:46,486
It's like you hear that, you settle in, you know you're going to

1309
01:08:46,547 --> 01:08:50,446
be treated to an incredible experience, and it's just, I mean, what

1310
01:08:50,526 --> 01:08:50,547
a

1311
01:08:52,266 --> 01:08:53,536
simple way to start that, too.

1312
01:08:53,536 --> 01:08:54,406
I know. Damn, why didn't I think of that?

1313
01:08:54,587 --> 01:08:55,666
Why didn't I think of that?

1314
01:08:56,066 --> 01:08:56,356
But I mean, it's such-

1315
01:08:56,356 --> 01:08:58,346
I mean, of course I could do that, but I didn't, you know?

1316
01:08:58,806 --> 01:09:00,226
And think about what's happened before that.

1317
01:09:00,286 --> 01:09:03,146
Only a couple of minutes, but it's already been kind of epic.

1318
01:09:03,406 --> 01:09:06,286
Yeah, but all the rebuttal stuff with PC and Bill Evans.

1319
01:09:06,326 --> 01:09:06,686
Yeah. Oh yeah, it's been epic.

1320
01:09:06,706 --> 01:09:07,137
And then

1321
01:09:09,967 --> 01:09:12,166
and Jimmy Cobb. And then, but that

1322
01:09:14,387 --> 01:09:16,467
like now the party's started. But like-

1323
01:09:16,626 --> 01:09:17,416
Yeah. It's great

1324
01:09:17,416 --> 01:09:18,206
... it's, oh.

1325
01:09:18,246 --> 01:09:19,116
Okay. Bespoke playlist-

1326
01:09:19,146 --> 01:09:20,226
I want your apex moment.

1327
01:09:20,986 --> 01:09:21,137
Bespoke

1328
01:09:21,156 --> 01:09:21,467
Sorry.

1329
01:09:21,846 --> 01:09:25,726
Bespoke playlist title. Peter, if you were going to make a playlist and this album

1330
01:09:25,786 --> 01:09:29,486
was included in that playlist with other albums like it, what would the title of

1331
01:09:29,526 --> 01:09:30,547
the playlist be called?

1332
01:09:31,387 --> 01:09:31,726
GOATED.

1333
01:09:32,286 --> 01:09:32,905
GOATED?

1334
01:09:32,956 --> 01:09:33,326
GOATED.

1335
01:09:33,587 --> 01:09:34,726
Like greatest of all times.

1336
01:09:34,786 --> 01:09:34,887
Yeah.

1337
01:09:35,266 --> 01:09:35,286
Okay.

1338
01:09:35,326 --> 01:09:36,445
GOATED. It has been GOATED.

1339
01:09:36,486 --> 01:09:36,686
Okay.

1340
01:09:36,887 --> 01:09:40,846
And so there would be just a very small select. You're talking maybe Innervisions.

1341
01:09:40,967 --> 01:09:41,186
Yeah.

1342
01:09:41,686 --> 01:09:43,286
Maybe Songs in the Key of Life.

1343
01:09:43,366 --> 01:09:43,646
Yeah.

1344
01:09:44,286 --> 01:09:44,726
Maybe

1345
01:09:45,887 --> 01:09:46,536
Giant Steps.

1346
01:09:46,587 --> 01:09:47,007
Of course.

1347
01:09:47,206 --> 01:09:48,087
Same year, '59.

1348
01:09:48,146 --> 01:09:48,306
Sure.

1349
01:09:48,507 --> 01:09:48,826
60-ish.

1350
01:09:49,087 --> 01:09:49,146
60.

1351
01:09:49,186 --> 01:09:52,666
I mean, just the greatest albums that are just indisputably from whatever

1352
01:09:52,746 --> 01:09:53,206
genre.

1353
01:09:53,606 --> 01:09:57,126
Yeah. I would call it One of One, because this is

1354
01:09:58,806 --> 01:10:02,526
one of those albums, there's nothing else quite like it.

1355
01:10:02,606 --> 01:10:05,866
Not in Miles Davis's catalog. What's another Kind of Blue that he made?

1356
01:10:05,906 --> 01:10:08,736
He didn't turn around and the next thing he did was just like this.

1357
01:10:08,766 --> 01:10:09,176
Well, Miles '58.

1358
01:10:09,176 --> 01:10:10,926
He's like, "I'm going to live in this genre." He

1359
01:10:11,786 --> 01:10:13,206
pretty soon after this-

1360
01:10:13,216 --> 01:10:13,666
Yeah

1361
01:10:13,726 --> 01:10:14,546
... formed a new band.

1362
01:10:14,646 --> 01:10:14,656
Yeah. That's true.

1363
01:10:14,666 --> 01:10:17,846
Started doing new stuff with a new group of musicians.

1364
01:10:18,026 --> 01:10:21,526
Formed his second great quintet a couple of years later, and is onto a whole new

1365
01:10:21,586 --> 01:10:25,166
sound. And then a couple of years after that, he's onto like, In a Silent Way.

1366
01:10:25,206 --> 01:10:25,326
Yeah.

1367
01:10:25,366 --> 01:10:26,866
And B*****s Brew and a whole new thing.

1368
01:10:26,906 --> 01:10:30,006
And it's like he's never sitting still.

1369
01:10:30,066 --> 01:10:31,726
He made this one thing that was-

1370
01:10:31,736 --> 01:10:32,236
Yeah

1371
01:10:31,736 --> 01:10:35,586
... this sketch of impressionism that he left with

1372
01:10:35,666 --> 01:10:37,486
us. And that's it. And that's-

1373
01:10:37,516 --> 01:10:39,576
And even the songs that he did keep playing from this-

1374
01:10:39,646 --> 01:10:39,706
Yeah

1375
01:10:40,166 --> 01:10:41,926
... with Herbie, Ron, Tony, were totally different.

1376
01:10:42,026 --> 01:10:43,906
They would do them like 300 beats per minute.

1377
01:10:44,026 --> 01:10:44,106
Yeah.

1378
01:10:44,126 --> 01:10:45,796
And just like, "I'm going to rip your face off with this" kind of thing.

1379
01:10:45,796 --> 01:10:46,926
Yeah. It was almost like, "I'm going to play it for you."

1380
01:10:46,936 --> 01:10:47,436
Yeah.

1381
01:10:46,936 --> 01:10:47,766
"But it ain't going to be what you...

1382
01:10:48,006 --> 01:10:48,766
It ain't Kind of Blue."

1383
01:10:48,906 --> 01:10:52,006
But this vibe was never recreated, and not just by Miles, by the way.

1384
01:10:52,206 --> 01:10:53,746
What are the other Kind of Blues out there?

1385
01:10:53,966 --> 01:10:57,066
Some people are like, "Time Out." That's not really like this, is it?

1386
01:10:57,126 --> 01:10:58,516
It's kind of its own thing. It's great-

1387
01:10:58,556 --> 01:10:59,056
Yeah

1388
01:10:58,556 --> 01:11:00,866
... but it's its own thing. Nothing by Mingus.

1389
01:11:00,886 --> 01:11:01,216
Same year.

1390
01:11:01,646 --> 01:11:02,046
Same year.

1391
01:11:02,126 --> 01:11:02,135
Yeah.

1392
01:11:02,406 --> 01:11:06,186
But nothing in this year of those, like Pantheon, The Shape of Jazz to

1393
01:11:06,226 --> 01:11:06,486
Come,

1394
01:11:07,486 --> 01:11:08,766
Mingus Ah Um, nothing's like that.

1395
01:11:09,066 --> 01:11:11,446
All right. Well, don't talk about that too much, because we get two categories from

1396
01:11:11,506 --> 01:11:12,586
now, we're going to come back to that.

1397
01:11:12,906 --> 01:11:16,106
Cool. Snob-o-meter. Oh, by the way, the person who named-

1398
01:11:16,186 --> 01:11:17,306
Hold up, hold up. Quibble bits.

1399
01:11:17,566 --> 01:11:19,006
Oh, shoot. Okay, quibble bits.

1400
01:11:19,106 --> 01:11:20,226
No, none.

1401
01:11:20,286 --> 01:11:20,946
None. Great.

1402
01:11:21,266 --> 01:11:21,276
Yeah.

1403
01:11:21,306 --> 01:11:21,846
Snob-o-meter.

1404
01:11:22,546 --> 01:11:26,475
Okay, yeah. So tell them what the Snob-o-meter is,

1405
01:11:26,566 --> 01:11:27,006
first of all.

1406
01:11:27,126 --> 01:11:30,746
Several years ago, we invented a device called the Snob-o-meter.

1407
01:11:30,986 --> 01:11:34,766
And we thought this was so clever of us, because it was Snob hyphen O-

1408
01:11:34,806 --> 01:11:35,306
O-meter

1409
01:11:35,346 --> 01:11:36,656
... meter. You know, like back in the '70s-

1410
01:11:36,786 --> 01:11:36,826
Yeah

1411
01:11:36,836 --> 01:11:37,766
... when everything was like-

1412
01:11:37,786 --> 01:11:38,106
That's right

1413
01:11:38,116 --> 01:11:39,056
... deluxe looking.

1414
01:11:39,106 --> 01:11:42,496
As a way to classify an album, like how snobby is this album?

1415
01:11:42,626 --> 01:11:46,616
Is this album that you would show to my dear Aunt Linda, who has

1416
01:11:46,706 --> 01:11:50,446
very broad taste, or would you show it to legendary art

1417
01:11:50,566 --> 01:11:51,926
pianist Ethan Iverson?

1418
01:11:53,406 --> 01:11:54,306
And Substack-

1419
01:11:54,606 --> 01:11:55,086
And Substack

1420
01:11:55,676 --> 01:11:56,176
... writer.

1421
01:11:55,686 --> 01:11:59,246
Writer, who's got great taste, but rather snobby taste.

1422
01:11:59,526 --> 01:12:00,406
Snobbiest of snobby.

1423
01:12:00,486 --> 01:12:03,666
Who would like it more? If it's a 10, it's very snobby.

1424
01:12:03,806 --> 01:12:05,226
If it's a one, it's not very snobby.

1425
01:12:05,286 --> 01:12:05,626
However-

1426
01:12:07,186 --> 01:12:09,226
Yeah. Bill Martin, who's actually here, my father.

1427
01:12:10,056 --> 01:12:11,486
Bill Martin sitting in the front row,

1428
01:12:14,446 --> 01:12:16,606
alerted us about a year and a half ago.

1429
01:12:16,806 --> 01:12:19,986
He said, "You know, the Snob-o-meter is kind of stupid." I said, "What do you

1430
01:12:20,046 --> 01:12:23,846
mean?" And he said, "No, no, the idea is good, but you need to call it the

1431
01:12:23,906 --> 01:12:24,686
Snob-o-meter."

1432
01:12:25,026 --> 01:12:25,526
That's right.

1433
01:12:26,086 --> 01:12:29,986
And so from henceforth after that date, it has been

1434
01:12:30,006 --> 01:12:30,846
known as the-

1435
01:12:31,386 --> 01:12:35,106
Snob-o-meter. And I just want to say, Bill, before you made that suggestion, we

1436
01:12:35,126 --> 01:12:38,406
were not anywhere close on the Apple Podcast charts.

1437
01:12:38,506 --> 01:12:41,026
We weren't even in the conversation.

1438
01:12:41,066 --> 01:12:41,316
And we've since-

1439
01:12:41,386 --> 01:12:42,946
We didn't even have Apple products yet.

1440
01:12:42,986 --> 01:12:43,226
We weren't-

1441
01:12:43,246 --> 01:12:47,226
We've since peaked at number four in music since Bill changed

1442
01:12:47,346 --> 01:12:47,546
that.

1443
01:12:47,706 --> 01:12:47,866
Yeah.

1444
01:12:48,626 --> 01:12:48,746
Yeah.

1445
01:12:48,766 --> 01:12:48,986
That's right.

1446
01:12:50,076 --> 01:12:52,266
Causation or correlation, we don't know.

1447
01:12:52,486 --> 01:12:55,406
We don't know, but I'm pretty sure it's the name change. Okay, what do you got?

1448
01:12:55,446 --> 01:12:56,086
How snobby is this?

1449
01:12:56,186 --> 01:12:57,846
So, okay, I'm going to

1450
01:12:59,106 --> 01:13:00,186
go three on this.

1451
01:13:00,266 --> 01:13:00,866
That's a good call.

1452
01:13:01,346 --> 01:13:02,066
What? Really?

1453
01:13:02,446 --> 01:13:02,706
I usually-

1454
01:13:02,786 --> 01:13:03,776
We rarely agree on this stuff

1455
01:13:03,776 --> 01:13:07,066
... I usually violently disagree with you, but I'm going two.

1456
01:13:07,196 --> 01:13:07,396
You're going two? Okay.

1457
01:13:07,396 --> 01:13:09,126
I'm going a little bit less snobby than I think you are.

1458
01:13:09,146 --> 01:13:10,686
Tell me what you're thinking on it, and then I'll tell you mine.

1459
01:13:11,566 --> 01:13:14,826
One of the most accessible jazz albums of all time.

1460
01:13:14,906 --> 01:13:18,306
If you met someone and they say, "I don't really know anything about jazz.

1461
01:13:18,346 --> 01:13:20,606
I don't think I like it," what's the first thing you would hand them?

1462
01:13:20,946 --> 01:13:21,686
Kind of Blue.

1463
01:13:21,806 --> 01:13:21,816
Kind of Blue.

1464
01:13:21,846 --> 01:13:22,826
So wouldn't that make it a one?

1465
01:13:24,246 --> 01:13:25,665
It's still jazz.

1466
01:13:29,850 --> 01:13:31,030
Okay, fair enough.

1467
01:13:32,290 --> 01:13:33,850
So I'm going to tell you why I gave it a three.

1468
01:13:34,030 --> 01:13:37,840
I just knee-jerk put down one. I'm like, "Finally, we have an easy

1469
01:13:37,930 --> 01:13:40,650
one. This is the least snobby album ever made.

1470
01:13:40,690 --> 01:13:41,330
Everybody loves it."

1471
01:13:43,010 --> 01:13:46,610
But I will remind you of your family

1472
01:13:46,670 --> 01:13:50,220
lineage, my dear friend Adam. Aunt Linda has been

1473
01:13:50,250 --> 01:13:52,590
assigned to one. Is Aunt Linda here tonight?

1474
01:13:53,530 --> 01:13:54,310
No, I wish she were.

1475
01:13:54,530 --> 01:13:56,870
Well, if this was a one, she would be here. See?

1476
01:13:59,050 --> 01:13:59,890
That's why it was a three.

1477
01:14:00,310 --> 01:14:00,790
All right. Okay.

1478
01:14:00,850 --> 01:14:01,750
In my mind, that

1479
01:14:02,670 --> 01:14:03,740
came across much more successfully.

1480
01:14:03,850 --> 01:14:06,790
I can't wait till you and Aunt Linda meet. It's going to be a great day.

1481
01:14:07,070 --> 01:14:07,150
Yeah.

1482
01:14:07,410 --> 01:14:07,650
Okay.

1483
01:14:08,210 --> 01:14:11,850
No, the reason I didn't give it a one, really, was because the fact that we can

1484
01:14:11,890 --> 01:14:15,240
break down this stuff in the way that we did, there's got to be some level of

1485
01:14:15,330 --> 01:14:16,190
snobbiness to it.

1486
01:14:17,190 --> 01:14:21,150
So now we're hitting a little bit of a roadblock, because the next category we

1487
01:14:21,190 --> 01:14:22,710
have is one that we use on

1488
01:14:23,630 --> 01:14:24,850
nearly every single episode.

1489
01:14:25,170 --> 01:14:25,180
Yeah.

1490
01:14:25,180 --> 01:14:28,910
And that category is a question, and that question is, is this album

1491
01:14:29,030 --> 01:14:30,110
better than Kind of Blue?

1492
01:14:31,930 --> 01:14:33,770
Glitch. Glitch.

1493
01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:39,930
Ah, matrix. Enter him.

1494
01:14:40,030 --> 01:14:42,860
We broke him. I do. I have system failure after this.

1495
01:14:43,450 --> 01:14:44,070
I put glitch.

1496
01:14:44,190 --> 01:14:45,980
Yeah. The system has failed. Okay, so let's move on.

1497
01:14:46,030 --> 01:14:46,729
Yeah. We'll move on.

1498
01:14:46,770 --> 01:14:47,150
Okay.

1499
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:49,620
And just to say, we've had very few.

1500
01:14:49,650 --> 01:14:53,490
The only time we change it from is it better than Kind of Blue is if it's a

1501
01:14:53,550 --> 01:14:56,950
record that we're doing that's so far out of the jazz world that it doesn't make

1502
01:14:57,050 --> 01:14:57,410
sense.

1503
01:14:57,570 --> 01:14:57,580
Yeah.

1504
01:14:57,590 --> 01:14:59,630
Maybe we did that with Steely Dan. I can't remember.

1505
01:15:00,030 --> 01:15:03,630
Yeah. If it's something from the '70s, we might use Innervisions.

1506
01:15:03,710 --> 01:15:05,570
Yeah. Like the equivalent kind of thing.

1507
01:15:05,730 --> 01:15:05,850
Yeah.

1508
01:15:05,870 --> 01:15:09,850
But for the record, we've had very few records that have been better than Kind

1509
01:15:09,870 --> 01:15:11,150
of Blue. I can only think of one or two.

1510
01:15:11,170 --> 01:15:12,510
One or two, maybe. Yeah.

1511
01:15:12,570 --> 01:15:16,110
Yeah. You've done a lot of evens, which is kind of cheating a little bit.

1512
01:15:16,140 --> 01:15:17,089
Come on. You've done a lot of evens.

1513
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:17,410
Yeah. Okay.

1514
01:15:17,470 --> 01:15:18,450
Okay. A Couche-tard Monts.

1515
01:15:18,710 --> 01:15:19,810
A Couche-tard Monts. This is like-

1516
01:15:20,230 --> 01:15:20,240
How is the-

1517
01:15:20,270 --> 01:15:20,870
Oh, go ahead. Sorry.

1518
01:15:20,910 --> 01:15:21,730
The album cover.

1519
01:15:21,780 --> 01:15:22,280
Yeah.

1520
01:15:21,790 --> 01:15:22,590
The liner notes.

1521
01:15:22,700 --> 01:15:22,720
Yeah.

1522
01:15:22,750 --> 01:15:24,710
All of the photos that accompany the session.

1523
01:15:25,090 --> 01:15:25,390
You buy the-

1524
01:15:25,430 --> 01:15:26,890
Everybody speaks French here. We're in St. Louis.

1525
01:15:26,930 --> 01:15:29,740
This was French-settled areas, okay?

1526
01:15:29,790 --> 01:15:33,710
Fair enough. But you buy the record, you open it up, you look at

1527
01:15:33,750 --> 01:15:35,270
it. What is that experience like?

1528
01:15:35,570 --> 01:15:36,630
Yeah. I'm giving it a 10.

1529
01:15:37,010 --> 01:15:37,630
Same. 10.

1530
01:15:37,970 --> 01:15:38,830
This is the rare-

1531
01:15:39,370 --> 01:15:40,190
The rare 10.

1532
01:15:40,410 --> 01:15:42,010
Yeah. On the original versions.

1533
01:15:42,110 --> 01:15:42,200
Yeah.

1534
01:15:42,230 --> 01:15:44,870
Don't get these jacked-up, jackleg versions.

1535
01:15:45,450 --> 01:15:47,280
We got such a bootleg copy at the studio. It's ridiculous.

1536
01:15:47,310 --> 01:15:49,760
Yeah. And the reason, we normally have the album, and then all of a sudden, I know

1537
01:15:49,770 --> 01:15:52,799
we got Kind of Blue, and somebody in the studio today was like, "Yeah, here it is."

1538
01:15:52,799 --> 01:15:53,170
And it's like-

1539
01:15:53,179 --> 01:15:53,679
It's like-

1540
01:15:53,179 --> 01:15:53,850
... this picture.

1541
01:15:54,830 --> 01:15:58,780
Because the cover is, like, a Polish person. It's like, what is this?

1542
01:15:59,150 --> 01:16:02,370
Yeah. Because anyone can burn an LP or burn a CD.

1543
01:16:02,810 --> 01:16:02,820
Yeah.

1544
01:16:03,030 --> 01:16:06,810
But the original, I'm not saying you've got to go spend $900 on eBay and get the

1545
01:16:06,850 --> 01:16:09,630
original, but they've got really good pressings of this.

1546
01:16:09,710 --> 01:16:10,890
There are some bad pressings, too.

1547
01:16:10,990 --> 01:16:11,080
Yeah. For sure.

1548
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:14,370
From Columbia/Sony. But the picture on the front,

1549
01:16:14,630 --> 01:16:15,170
iconic.

1550
01:16:15,230 --> 01:16:17,060
Incredible. Bill Evans wrote the liner notes.

1551
01:16:17,110 --> 01:16:17,330
Yeah.

1552
01:16:17,590 --> 01:16:17,959
The pianist. Yeah.

1553
01:16:17,959 --> 01:16:19,330
The typeface on the back.

1554
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:19,860
Yeah.

1555
01:16:19,530 --> 01:16:20,340
The proportions.

1556
01:16:20,430 --> 01:16:21,070
It's unbelievable.

1557
01:16:21,150 --> 01:16:21,269
Yeah.

1558
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:23,870
Okay. If this were to autoplay on-

1559
01:16:23,910 --> 01:16:24,010
Yeah

1560
01:16:24,019 --> 01:16:27,470
... a streaming service, and there was an album up next, what would be up next?

1561
01:16:27,730 --> 01:16:28,850
So I put...

1562
01:16:30,550 --> 01:16:32,370
Oh, I didn't give you the audio. Did I give you any audio

1563
01:16:33,370 --> 01:16:36,030
for Jazz at the Plaza or Miles '58?

1564
01:16:38,230 --> 01:16:40,630
Oh, yeah. This is Miles '58. Bill Evans.

1565
01:16:51,530 --> 01:16:52,530
This is "Love for Sale."

1566
01:16:55,940 --> 01:16:59,840
And this is a great record called

1567
01:16:59,890 --> 01:17:03,430
Miles '58. It actually wasn't released till a little bit later, but it was the

1568
01:17:03,450 --> 01:17:06,580
exact same band as Kind of Blue, but from a year earlier.

1569
01:17:06,710 --> 01:17:09,930
Bill Evans was still in the band, and Philly Joe Jones was on drums.

1570
01:17:09,990 --> 01:17:11,690
So it's a little bit different.

1571
01:17:11,770 --> 01:17:15,690
We learned today that Kind of Blue wouldn't

1572
01:17:15,710 --> 01:17:18,860
have been Kind of Blue without Jimmy Cobb, without anybody who was on it, but

1573
01:17:18,890 --> 01:17:22,650
especially Jimmy Cobb. Wow, he's the one person that was

1574
01:17:22,690 --> 01:17:26,000
playing every note on the entire album, I think.

1575
01:17:26,060 --> 01:17:26,330
Okay.

1576
01:17:26,390 --> 01:17:29,690
But Bill Evans talked about how much he liked, because he mostly played with Philly

1577
01:17:29,770 --> 01:17:32,530
Joe Jones in the Miles Davis Sextet.

1578
01:17:32,590 --> 01:17:36,120
Same thing with Cannonball Adderley, John Coltrane, Paul Chambers.

1579
01:17:36,220 --> 01:17:39,790
And so that would be a great record to go, even though you're going backwards a

1580
01:17:39,830 --> 01:17:43,770
little bit, a year before. But really interesting record. What you got, Adam?

1581
01:17:43,810 --> 01:17:45,760
So I didn't know we were doing audio for this, but I want to give mine out to you,

1582
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:46,260
buddy.

1583
01:17:45,769 --> 01:17:48,730
Well, it's not required, man. Yeah. What?

1584
01:17:48,740 --> 01:17:49,550
A little competitive over here.

1585
01:17:49,570 --> 01:17:52,120
You want the Wi-Fi code? What's happening here? Can I help you out?

1586
01:17:53,020 --> 01:17:53,730
So I'm going for this.

1587
01:17:53,910 --> 01:17:54,110
Okay.

1588
01:18:02,230 --> 01:18:05,170
John Coltrane's 1965 masterpiece, A Love Supreme.

1589
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:06,760
Yeah. Six years later. Right.

1590
01:18:06,810 --> 01:18:08,810
Also, somewhat of a singular album.

1591
01:18:08,950 --> 01:18:09,130
Yeah.

1592
01:18:09,450 --> 01:18:13,230
Also, a very heady concept. Also, tunes that Trane

1593
01:18:13,270 --> 01:18:14,710
brought into the session with his

1594
01:18:15,790 --> 01:18:16,230
quartet.

1595
01:18:16,470 --> 01:18:16,670
Yeah.

1596
01:18:17,370 --> 01:18:19,170
With them not ever seeing them before.

1597
01:18:19,220 --> 01:18:19,510
Impulse. Yeah.

1598
01:18:21,550 --> 01:18:21,560
Yeah.

1599
01:18:21,650 --> 01:18:25,600
So I think when we covered this album a couple of years ago, this

1600
01:18:25,630 --> 01:18:28,950
was one of the rare ones you said you thought was better than KOB.

1601
01:18:29,830 --> 01:18:30,330
Yeah, but I'm

1602
01:18:31,170 --> 01:18:32,460
such a John Coltrane head that-

1603
01:18:32,850 --> 01:18:33,130
Yeah

1604
01:18:33,150 --> 01:18:37,090
... the more Trane, the better. And then also, McCoy Tyner's

1605
01:18:37,130 --> 01:18:38,750
my favorite pianist of all time, and-

1606
01:18:39,210 --> 01:18:39,310
Yeah.

1607
01:18:39,430 --> 01:18:39,630
Yeah.

1608
01:18:40,010 --> 01:18:40,190
Yeah.

1609
01:18:40,910 --> 01:18:41,230
And

1610
01:18:42,230 --> 01:18:46,110
it's hard for me. Also, have you ever noticed that whenever we listen

1611
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:49,150
to any of these albums on the show, we come away with it like that's the greatest

1612
01:18:49,210 --> 01:18:50,290
album we've ever heard in our lives?

1613
01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:52,790
I know. I know. It's like whatever we last listened to, so.

1614
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:54,060
All right, this was awesome, Adam.

1615
01:18:54,090 --> 01:18:54,720
This was so great.

1616
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:55,300
Finally, we did it.

1617
01:18:55,310 --> 01:18:56,490
St. Louis, thank you so much-

1618
01:18:56,570 --> 01:18:57,010
Yeah. Thank you, St. Louis

1619
01:18:57,030 --> 01:18:58,080
... for being here tonight.

1620
01:18:58,490 --> 01:18:59,350
Until next time.

1621
01:18:59,770 --> 01:19:00,750
You'll hear it.