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Rupert Isaacson: Welcome
to Equine Assisted World.

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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson,
New York Times best selling

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author of The Horse Boy, The Long
Ride Home, and The Healing Land.

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Before I jump in with today's
guest, I just want to say a huge

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thank you to you, our audience,
for helping to make this happen.

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I have a request.

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If you like what we do, please
like, subscribe, tell a friend.

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It really helps us get this work done.

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As you might know from my
books, I'm an autism dad.

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And over the last 20 years,
we've developed several

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equine assisted, neuroscience
backed certification programs.

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If you'd like to find out more
about them, go to newtrailslearning.

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com.

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So without further ado,
let's meet today's guest.

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Welcome back to Equine Assisted World.

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Those of us who have family skin
in the game you know, everyone

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knows my story with my son.

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Some of you maybe have listened to
podcasts with the Berko family in Germany

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and with Helena Helma and in New York.

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And so all of us who are autism parents
or parents of kids with, you know, fairly

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extreme special needs have a unique
perspective on this equine assisted thing.

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Because we live it, we have no choice.

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We're in it beyond the grave.

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We have to turn our lives over to it
completely in a way that is perhaps a

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little different to someone who wants to
get into it from a purely professional.

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Or vocational point of view.

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And so for that reason I'm always
very excited when I have parents

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and families coming on the show who
have this experience and also have

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created a practice, an equine assisted
practice from that experience because

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I think we can all absolutely agree
that these people are the mentors.

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So I've got a couple of these mentors
with us today from the Netherlands.

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And their story with their son Stan,
has informed a whole practice in

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a way of life which is now helping
people in the Netherlands and

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through this podcast, perhaps beyond.

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So without further ado I'm gonna
ask them to introduce themselves

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and we'll take it from there.

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So, who are you guys?

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Monique: I am Monique Teman.

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I am the mother of Stan.

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And we also have another
son and another daughter.

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So, that's me.

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Husband: Okay.

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I'm Ian.

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I'm the father of Stan and our
other son, GU and our daughter.

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And no, Stan is already now 20 years old.

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Almost,

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Rupert Isaacson: almost,

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Husband: almost,

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Rupert Isaacson: sorry.

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Yes.

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Almost 20.

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Okay.

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And you guys run an equine assisted
practice, Monique, I know you

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are the main driver of this.

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Yes.

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Can you tell us a little bit
about what you do, and then we're

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gonna go to your story with Stan
and how it's led to what you do.

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So tell us about your practice.

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Monique: Yes.

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I have a practice where I do session
with people all kind of things.

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And that's where I have the,
the, the beautiful colleague

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of ever, and that's my horses.

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Horses tell you everything you can lie to
them and they will put a mirror on you,

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but they also can put your system on.

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And then, I mean, a system who
can relaxing you, who makes you

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zen, who puts on the nervous far.

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We call about it.

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And that's, that's when
it's going to happen.

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And especially people with autism who
always are standing on, we, we call it

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they're always beware of what is going
to happen, what was see, so all the,

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the how do you call it in, in English?

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The, the, the centering.

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They, they will, they will put it in
and they, they don't know a way to put

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it out and to, to getting regulated.

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So, when I have someone with
autism and he's standing by

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the horse, it's already there.

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The horse takes the,
the, the extension away.

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It's, it's, it's beautiful to see.

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And the moment it's, it's happened
that's, the kids are, are the

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people who is, who are standing
there, there, they, they, they have

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right away another way of standing.

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They are going to relax.

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They feel their body, they are going
out of the brain into the body.

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And that's, that's a beautiful thing.

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So that's what I do.

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And also take the old family
and holistic look at the family.

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What is, what is happening with you?

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What's happening with the parents
when you have a kid with autism?

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What is happening with the other kids?

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How do, how do they go with that?

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They have a lot to, to, to, to learn about
yeah, their brother or sister and things

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they don't want to learn because they
also have their, their their own space.

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They need their own space.

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So there's a lot to learn.

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Rupert Isaacson: Do you have the other
family members come for the sessions with

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you as well as just the autistic client?

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Monique: Yes.

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Yes I have.

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And then when you have the old
system, so the old family, you can

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see what is happening and where the
extensions begins and, and what is

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happening, what is happening with
dad, and what is happening with mom.

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Mm-hmm.

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And what is happening with the little
sister, and why is she afraid, and

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why are we going to scream at each
other or what we don't understand?

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And the important thing, I think, is
to look at your child with autism.

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What is he telling you without words?

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Look at him, look at his
eyes, look at his skin.

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That are kind of things.

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Look at his, his, his fingers.

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How is he putting his fingers on?

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That, that tells you a lot of information.

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You can deal with it.

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Rupert Isaacson: I'm intrigued
when you say look at his skin.

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Yes.

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What do you mean by that?

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Monique: When the extension is going too
high, they, they are how do you call it?

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Spear ness tension.

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The, the muscle extension,
the muscle tension.

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You can see it.

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There are

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Husband: he's making fist.

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He is

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Monique: making fist.

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He is he he is

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Husband: looking for pressure.

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He's look,

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Monique: yeah.

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Yeah.

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Things like that.

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He is, he is.

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Sometimes they put also their
hands behind their back to, to, to

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look for the how do you call it?

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The, the, the, the vegetarian
line, I call it, right?

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Rupert Isaacson: The, like the pressure
on the kidneys and the adrenal glands.

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Monique: I think, yes, yes.

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And to feel where, where am I standing?

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Where, where are my feet?

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Where are my feet?

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Because they need to regular.

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And when they are standing to try to
ground on the feets, they are getting

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more space in the brain so that can bring
them back into where they really are.

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Rupert Isaacson: This is interesting.

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You know, I absolutely agree with you.

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I, obviously with Horse Boy, we try
to involve as many family members

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as we can, partly because for the
reasons that you just outlined, but

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also frankly, for selfish reasons.

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I will learn more about your child if
the brother and the sister are there,

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because I don't know your kid, you know?

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No.

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And your kid doesn't trust me.

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He doesn't know me and the brother and
the sister, they know each other better

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even than the parents know the child.

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So often, the brother or the sister will
say to me, oh, when he makes that noise,

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it means this, or, yes, when, you know,
don't do this, but make sure you do this.

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This is really good information
and I, I won't get it unless

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I have some expert there.

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So I also realize that I need
to make my place attractive

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to the brother and the sister.

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Maybe they don't like horses,
maybe they like football.

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Mm-hmm.

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Maybe they like martial arts.

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Maybe they do like courses.

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So I have to think about
how do I design the session?

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We call them play dates, you know?

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Yeah.

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How do I design the play
date for those children?

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And then of course the mother
and the father can relax a little

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bit because suddenly they see,
oh, all of my children's needs

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are being met in this place.

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Yeah.

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And then perhaps the brother who
likes football, and I call my friend

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who's a professional soccer coach
and say, Hey, I need you on this one.

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And suddenly he's getting
amazing soccer coaching.

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Yeah.

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Because of his brother's autism.

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Yeah.

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And this changes the dynamic a little
bit, or maybe the sister she's getting

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riding lessons on really good horses.

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You know, our horses are trained through
the Grand Prix, some of them in dressage.

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So we can give her these
incredible experiences because

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of her brother's autism.

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And it changes the dynamic, you know?

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I so agree.

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And I, I'm always trying to encourage.

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Practitioners to do this, but of course it
can make life more difficult and sometimes

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you get parents who are not so helpful.

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I know, and I'm sure you know this and
then you have to work with that, but

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I, but I find that whether they are
helpful or not, it's still optimal.

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Yeah.

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If they're all there in terms of the
change that we can affect, it's, you know,

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I'm very encouraged to hear you say this.

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I'm also interested in what you
said about skin because we noticed

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very early with Rowan, with my son.

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Mm-hmm.

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And then with other children, we
saw there was a pattern that right

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before the meltdown, before the
tantrum, before the negative thing,

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they would often go very pale.

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Yeah.

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The color would go pale and you
would see two little dark spots.

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Under the eyes.

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And eventually we realized
this was lack of protein.

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This was a blood sugar crash.

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Monique: Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Rupert Isaacson: And that if we could
get a little bit of protein into

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them, it was a little bit like putting
gasoline back in the brain drink.

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Yeah.

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And now we got to the point where we
will always tell the parent or the

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caregiver who's bringing the child, make
sure that they, and you have had protein

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30 minutes before you come, because
cognitively it will make a difference.

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And it was the skin color change.

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That first alerted us to this,
and now I see it in everybody.

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Yeah.

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Including myself.

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Like there are sometimes when I'm
like, yeah, and I look at myself

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in the mirror, like, oh shit, I

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Monique: something, where is it?

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Yeah.

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Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

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Okay.

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So you have a practice, it's called ini.

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Yes.

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So that's incomp compassion.

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Monique: Yes.

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Rupert Isaacson: Why this word?

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Why compassion?

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Monique: Why compassion?

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I'll tell you when I started
to on my, on my practice, I,

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I didn't have know name yet.

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And I have searched and searched
and in Latin and in English and,

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and French and, and all kind of
languages came through my mind.

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But no, no, no.

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It wasn't, it wasn't until,
until, I have to go myself to

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the hospital with emergency.

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And after three days I became home and I
was lying on the couch and suddenly the

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name came up in compassion because it
was time to look at myself in compassion.

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It was time.

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We have given a lot as, as
parents, and it doesn't mind.

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I do it right away, but I don't have
to tell you what it's meant to have

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a child with autism, what it costs on
the energy and so, and that was the

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moment I thought, yeah, in compassion.

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So that's how I became to this name.

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Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

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So let's dial back now.

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Yeah.

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Monique: Speaking

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Rupert Isaacson: of the
experience as a parent,

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Monique: yes.

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Rupert Isaacson: I want both
of you to speak on this now.

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Tell me about your journey with Stan.

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Let's start at the beginning.

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Husband: Okay.

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Well, when when Stan was born,
it was how do you say it?

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A quick delivery.

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When you say quick conflict,
the labor went very fast.

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In, in one hour.

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Every the sun was there.

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Okay.

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I mean, and well, we were very happy of
course, because it was our second son

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and right away Monique said directly,
there's something special about Sam.

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As a parent your child always
is special, but now she said

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it in a, in a different way.

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There's something special about Stan.

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The first two years we didn't notice
anything different, but after a few

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years we noticed that he didn't develop
as as the other children, especially

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with with spoken words, et cetera.

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And there were several times when
there were loud noises or, or other

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things or images, something like that.

00:14:06.660 --> 00:14:11.770
He put his, he covered his
ears because yeah, he, he, he

00:14:11.770 --> 00:14:13.170
couldn't yeah, reflect him.

00:14:13.170 --> 00:14:15.100
He didn't know what to do with it.

00:14:15.640 --> 00:14:20.930
Then we went to the doctor and the
doctor said we, perhaps he is deaf.

00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.570
There's something wrong with his ears.

00:14:24.140 --> 00:14:29.920
So, we went over there, they didn't
see anything special and but, but he

00:14:29.920 --> 00:14:36.550
still covered his ears and yeah, he did,
still didn't develop as the other kids.

00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:40.290
So after that we went to another doctor.

00:14:40.410 --> 00:14:47.790
He did a lot of tests after that because
they suspect that there was something

00:14:47.790 --> 00:14:50.430
wrong in, in they suspect the autism.

00:14:50.910 --> 00:14:51.960
They suspected autism.

00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:52.485
Yes, yes.

00:14:52.680 --> 00:14:53.070
Yeah.

00:14:53.075 --> 00:14:53.245
Yeah.

00:14:53.820 --> 00:14:57.870
And from there on okay, yeah, of course.

00:14:58.290 --> 00:14:58.560
Okay.

00:14:58.890 --> 00:15:00.270
First we were very.

00:15:00.780 --> 00:15:01.320
Monique: Upset.

00:15:01.380 --> 00:15:02.160
Husband: Upset.

00:15:02.430 --> 00:15:02.880
Yeah.

00:15:02.940 --> 00:15:05.400
Monique: Otherwise, we
already knew something.

00:15:05.415 --> 00:15:07.560
It, it wasn't not that strange.

00:15:07.560 --> 00:15:12.150
She told us no, because
deep inside we knew

00:15:12.420 --> 00:15:14.010
Husband: there's something about someone.

00:15:14.010 --> 00:15:14.940
It could be autism.

00:15:15.030 --> 00:15:15.240
Yeah.

00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:16.560
Yes, it could be autism.

00:15:17.190 --> 00:15:19.210
Then we yeah, very quick.

00:15:19.210 --> 00:15:23.860
We accepted the, the knowledge
that that son had autism.

00:15:24.220 --> 00:15:29.240
So from there on we, we just, yeah.

00:15:29.330 --> 00:15:33.745
Put our minds, okay, how can we
help son to, to get along with

00:15:33.745 --> 00:15:35.755
his life on a, on a pleasant way.

00:15:36.385 --> 00:15:44.380
So, we, we had a, a special case manager,
autism, and she learned us by videos

00:15:44.380 --> 00:15:48.540
we made of stem, how stem reacted.

00:15:48.640 --> 00:15:56.830
In all kinds of, of circumstances and
especially how we could well predict

00:15:57.100 --> 00:16:00.510
when STEM was started to screen.

00:16:00.560 --> 00:16:02.810
So we can how do you say that?

00:16:02.975 --> 00:16:03.995
Monique: Regulate him.

00:16:03.995 --> 00:16:04.445
Husband: Yeah.

00:16:04.535 --> 00:16:05.165
Monique: Yeah.

00:16:05.315 --> 00:16:07.095
Bye by going

00:16:07.370 --> 00:16:09.375
Husband: get him back in
his, his comfort zone.

00:16:09.375 --> 00:16:10.065
Yes.

00:16:10.665 --> 00:16:13.655
In instead of yeah, sensory processing.

00:16:13.655 --> 00:16:13.775
S

00:16:14.435 --> 00:16:18.665
Rupert Isaacson: So when you
got him to his comfort zone?

00:16:19.685 --> 00:16:19.805
Yeah.

00:16:19.805 --> 00:16:21.305
Like bed or so?

00:16:21.550 --> 00:16:21.770
Husband: No,

00:16:21.990 --> 00:16:22.265
Rupert Isaacson: no, no, no.

00:16:22.985 --> 00:16:24.155
What's the comfort zone?

00:16:25.355 --> 00:16:26.285
Husband: No, no, no, no.

00:16:26.385 --> 00:16:29.630
By getting like an, an
example out the situation.

00:16:29.630 --> 00:16:29.750
Yeah.

00:16:29.845 --> 00:16:30.745
Out of the situation.

00:16:30.780 --> 00:16:31.070
Okay.

00:16:31.070 --> 00:16:32.070
Change the situation.

00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:33.110
Yeah,

00:16:33.780 --> 00:16:34.310
Monique: yeah, yeah.

00:16:34.830 --> 00:16:34.950
SPR

00:16:35.095 --> 00:16:37.550
Husband: or jump on a
trampoline or, or squeeZ.

00:16:37.550 --> 00:16:38.935
Him squeezing him something.

00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:40.990
Something to get into the pressure.

00:16:40.990 --> 00:16:41.230
Yeah.

00:16:41.380 --> 00:16:41.950
Into his body.

00:16:42.260 --> 00:16:42.550
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:16:42.715 --> 00:16:43.105
Okay.

00:16:43.465 --> 00:16:44.785
So change the environment.

00:16:45.655 --> 00:16:48.325
Deep pressure active movement.

00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:48.590
Yes.

00:16:48.745 --> 00:16:49.225
Yes.

00:16:49.345 --> 00:16:49.765
Okay.

00:16:50.485 --> 00:16:51.985
Outside preferably.

00:16:52.045 --> 00:16:52.405
Okay.

00:16:52.435 --> 00:16:52.765
Yeah.

00:16:52.855 --> 00:16:55.405
This was a good, this was a
good therapist that you found?

00:16:56.395 --> 00:16:56.875
Yes.

00:16:57.385 --> 00:16:58.165
Unusual.

00:16:59.035 --> 00:16:59.305
She

00:16:59.305 --> 00:17:00.955
Monique: is very good in her job.

00:17:00.955 --> 00:17:01.075
Really?

00:17:01.460 --> 00:17:01.660
Yeah.

00:17:01.660 --> 00:17:02.420
She, she's very good.

00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:03.460
She learns.

00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:05.815
She, she has learned us a

00:17:05.815 --> 00:17:06.025
Rupert Isaacson: lot.

00:17:06.080 --> 00:17:07.945
Do, do you still work with this person?

00:17:08.785 --> 00:17:09.265
Monique: No.

00:17:09.265 --> 00:17:09.625
No.

00:17:09.625 --> 00:17:15.670
She after I think about, she
became here three years, I think.

00:17:15.670 --> 00:17:16.375
Three years, yeah.

00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:16.950
After three years.

00:17:17.250 --> 00:17:19.105
And then she really told us.

00:17:19.690 --> 00:17:22.900
You are so good as parents,
you don't need me anymore.

00:17:22.900 --> 00:17:24.940
Yeah, you can, you can do it your own.

00:17:25.300 --> 00:17:30.555
And when she was walking through that
door, you have something No, don't go.

00:17:31.635 --> 00:17:32.155
I need you.

00:17:32.785 --> 00:17:33.075
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:17:33.280 --> 00:17:33.850
But then

00:17:33.850 --> 00:17:37.540
Monique: you are going to do it
on your own and you are, and,

00:17:37.540 --> 00:17:39.450
and it's became very well because

00:17:39.450 --> 00:17:42.270
Rupert Isaacson: How old was he
during this process this time?

00:17:42.610 --> 00:17:44.370
Monique: It was about four years.

00:17:44.370 --> 00:17:45.660
He was about four years.

00:17:46.230 --> 00:17:46.680
Yeah.

00:17:46.685 --> 00:17:48.540
He was, he was a little, a little one.

00:17:48.630 --> 00:17:48.960
Really?

00:17:49.740 --> 00:17:50.010
Yeah.

00:17:50.070 --> 00:17:50.400
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:56.460
So, so she shows you, the therapist,
shows you some good techniques for Yes.

00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:56.760
Yeah.

00:17:56.760 --> 00:17:59.760
Sensory processing for changing
the environment, for Yes.

00:18:00.120 --> 00:18:02.310
Giving deep pressure, et cetera, movement.

00:18:02.760 --> 00:18:02.850
Yes.

00:18:02.940 --> 00:18:03.870
What happens next?

00:18:03.870 --> 00:18:04.080
What,

00:18:05.950 --> 00:18:06.940
Monique: What happens next?

00:18:06.940 --> 00:18:07.390
Well,

00:18:07.490 --> 00:18:09.920
Husband: when he was
eight, eight years old.

00:18:10.565 --> 00:18:17.935
We heard about yeah, very good results of
children who had dolphin therapy in Uraba.

00:18:18.445 --> 00:18:18.925
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:18:19.070 --> 00:18:19.360
Husband: Yeah.

00:18:19.700 --> 00:18:25.695
And we knew the man who was well, the
arranged everything, yeah, arranged

00:18:25.765 --> 00:18:27.790
Rupert Isaacson: that, that
kind of journeys to kids.

00:18:27.790 --> 00:18:30.130
How did you know this man out of interest?

00:18:32.195 --> 00:18:33.935
Monique: He his how do you call it?

00:18:34.035 --> 00:18:34.535
His, his

00:18:34.665 --> 00:18:37.415
Husband: He went to kindergarten
and there was a teacher.

00:18:37.415 --> 00:18:37.425
Okay.

00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:38.640
Oh, yes.

00:18:38.860 --> 00:18:40.120
You told us about that.

00:18:40.170 --> 00:18:41.650
That Ah, yeah.

00:18:41.655 --> 00:18:42.125
Yeah.

00:18:42.215 --> 00:18:46.735
And so we made contact and then you,
there was they put you on a list.

00:18:47.455 --> 00:18:48.025
You had.

00:18:48.075 --> 00:18:53.470
It's, it's a, it's a foundation where
you have to do all, all kinds of things

00:18:53.470 --> 00:18:56.800
to raise money so you can get with yeah.

00:18:57.610 --> 00:18:57.980
With your family.

00:18:57.980 --> 00:19:00.390
With your family to dolphin therapy.

00:19:00.450 --> 00:19:00.630
And

00:19:00.635 --> 00:19:00.935
Rupert Isaacson: they, okay.

00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:05.970
Husband: They pay you the,
the, the ticket, eh, to, to fly

00:19:05.970 --> 00:19:08.530
over there and and the therapy.

00:19:08.685 --> 00:19:09.580
They, they, is

00:19:09.580 --> 00:19:11.440
Rupert Isaacson: this, I'm
just looking online now.

00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.490
Is this the URA Dolphin
Therapy and Research Center?

00:19:15.610 --> 00:19:15.790
Yeah.

00:19:15.820 --> 00:19:16.460
Husband: Yes, that's it.

00:19:16.595 --> 00:19:17.855
Say it c say

00:19:18.790 --> 00:19:18.880
Rupert Isaacson: it.

00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:18.890
CDTC.

00:19:18.890 --> 00:19:20.290
CDTC.

00:19:20.290 --> 00:19:20.380
Yeah.

00:19:20.380 --> 00:19:22.030
I've pulled it up on my Google.

00:19:22.030 --> 00:19:23.950
It looks really interesting.

00:19:24.250 --> 00:19:24.640
Okay.

00:19:24.940 --> 00:19:26.560
You raise the money, you go.

00:19:26.950 --> 00:19:27.250
Monique: Yeah.

00:19:28.150 --> 00:19:28.240
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:29.020
And what happens?

00:19:29.830 --> 00:19:30.670
Monique: What happens?

00:19:30.670 --> 00:19:37.700
Well, the first time we went over there,
Stan was screaming in front of the plane.

00:19:37.705 --> 00:19:37.885
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:19:38.945 --> 00:19:40.865
Monique: Well, my my teeth are rolling.

00:19:41.465 --> 00:19:47.755
And but we went over there and it was,
it was amazing what happens over there

00:19:47.755 --> 00:19:50.035
because Stan couldn't still talk.

00:19:50.035 --> 00:19:55.405
We don't have any, the logic with him,
he, we, we couldn't, we, we didn't know

00:19:55.455 --> 00:20:00.555
how it, how it, how, how he was feeling
when, when he was sad or happy or nothing.

00:20:00.675 --> 00:20:00.765
Right.

00:20:01.185 --> 00:20:06.525
So, over there you have to go
two weeks you are over there.

00:20:06.530 --> 00:20:06.630
Yeah.

00:20:07.095 --> 00:20:10.845
And you are swimming with the
dolphins five times a week.

00:20:12.100 --> 00:20:12.390
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:20:12.390 --> 00:20:12.400
And,

00:20:12.685 --> 00:20:17.030
Monique: Also the other kids, they
get a special program to put them

00:20:17.030 --> 00:20:21.920
also in the lights because Yeah,
they have to do a lot things.

00:20:21.970 --> 00:20:24.970
They don't want to because they
have a brother with autism.

00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:28.830
So then it is also
especially for them yeah.

00:20:29.615 --> 00:20:35.565
And for us it was also an eyeopener
because you see a lot things happen.

00:20:35.565 --> 00:20:39.315
You, you don't have the time
before that because you are always

00:20:39.315 --> 00:20:46.375
busy to, to have your family
good and, and get it well done.

00:20:46.375 --> 00:20:47.095
Everything.

00:20:47.095 --> 00:20:53.995
And, and so over there Stan goes to
the ducks and they are squeeze them.

00:20:53.995 --> 00:20:56.135
They, they had a lot of send your

00:20:56.185 --> 00:20:56.815
Husband: regulation.

00:20:56.815 --> 00:20:57.925
Regulation.

00:20:58.015 --> 00:20:58.285
Yeah.

00:20:58.805 --> 00:21:02.505
Monique: And then they are
going to, practice with him with

00:21:02.735 --> 00:21:07.685
letters from the alphabet and they
recognize he was very good while

00:21:07.685 --> 00:21:08.705
Rupert Isaacson: he's with the dolphin.

00:21:08.705 --> 00:21:08.795
Yes.

00:21:08.915 --> 00:21:10.385
Or after he's been with the dolphin?

00:21:10.385 --> 00:21:10.925
No, he was

00:21:10.925 --> 00:21:11.570
Monique: with the dolphin.

00:21:11.675 --> 00:21:13.055
It was on and off.

00:21:13.055 --> 00:21:15.035
He was a little time on the dock.

00:21:15.545 --> 00:21:17.370
Then they are doing a
practice with him On the

00:21:17.370 --> 00:21:17.570
Rupert Isaacson: dock.

00:21:18.030 --> 00:21:19.130
Monique: On the dock, yes.

00:21:19.475 --> 00:21:23.525
And then it, it was about
a minute or 10, I think.

00:21:23.885 --> 00:21:27.215
And then he gave to
swim with the dolphins.

00:21:27.275 --> 00:21:27.365
Yeah.

00:21:27.370 --> 00:21:32.045
And then he swim for 10 minutes and
then they are doing a practice again.

00:21:32.045 --> 00:21:33.545
And that was for an hour.

00:21:34.025 --> 00:21:36.215
Rupert Isaacson: So they'd, he'd
swim with the dolphin, then they'd

00:21:36.215 --> 00:21:41.825
go onto the dock, work on letters,
work on How would they work on

00:21:41.825 --> 00:21:44.825
letters when they were on the dock?

00:21:47.850 --> 00:21:48.070
Monique: Ah,

00:21:48.410 --> 00:21:52.760
Husband: What they, what they did
was they showed some a letter.

00:21:52.760 --> 00:21:52.820
Mm.

00:21:52.820 --> 00:21:56.390
They, they pronounced it,
how, how do you call that?

00:21:56.390 --> 00:21:56.990
Letter?

00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:03.660
And every time when Stu said it
right, the, the dolphin did a trick.

00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:04.710
Oh.

00:22:04.710 --> 00:22:09.620
So they, they stimulated Stu
to, to say the right word they,

00:22:10.580 --> 00:22:12.080
and to pronounce it right.

00:22:12.530 --> 00:22:17.135
And he get he got a reward
by a trick from the dolphin.

00:22:17.135 --> 00:22:17.895
From Dolphin, dolphin.

00:22:17.910 --> 00:22:18.060
The

00:22:18.060 --> 00:22:20.430
Rupert Isaacson: reward was
the dolphin did something cool.

00:22:20.610 --> 00:22:22.050
Yes, yes.

00:22:22.050 --> 00:22:22.980
This is really interesting.

00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:23.520
Always.

00:22:23.650 --> 00:22:26.920
Husband: It almost looked
like like, like, like Pavlov.

00:22:27.335 --> 00:22:30.275
If, if you a lot, eh,

00:22:31.030 --> 00:22:31.540
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.

00:22:31.870 --> 00:22:33.250
But that's my kind of Pavlov.

00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:37.540
If you're going to, if you're
gonna do that with me, then yeah.

00:22:37.600 --> 00:22:38.770
Have a dolphin do something.

00:22:38.770 --> 00:22:39.220
Cool.

00:22:39.280 --> 00:22:40.900
I will probably be motivated.

00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:41.170
Yeah.

00:22:41.260 --> 00:22:42.370
I mean, yeah.

00:22:42.970 --> 00:22:46.030
I've got, can I ask a couple
of practical questions?

00:22:46.030 --> 00:22:46.630
I'm, I'm.

00:22:46.995 --> 00:22:47.925
I'm really intrigued.

00:22:48.255 --> 00:22:53.445
So something which I've seen can
be tricky when you are working with

00:22:53.445 --> 00:22:56.175
children in the ocean or in water.

00:22:56.655 --> 00:22:56.745
Mm-hmm.

00:22:57.315 --> 00:23:03.195
Is the sensory issue of putting
on a wetsuit or putting on a

00:23:03.195 --> 00:23:05.295
flirtation device or something.

00:23:05.320 --> 00:23:05.600
Mm-hmm.

00:23:05.865 --> 00:23:09.955
We used to do autism
surf camps in California.

00:23:10.195 --> 00:23:10.285
Mm-hmm.

00:23:10.555 --> 00:23:11.965
We probably would do it again.

00:23:11.965 --> 00:23:17.275
We just got busy with other things and
some kids there was no problem at all.

00:23:17.665 --> 00:23:21.745
Other kids, you really, of course,
had to work for some time on

00:23:21.985 --> 00:23:23.515
just the wetsuit or something.

00:23:23.815 --> 00:23:28.465
So were there any issues like this with
Stan or with other kids that you saw?

00:23:28.735 --> 00:23:32.845
And then of course after that
there's the water and then

00:23:32.845 --> 00:23:34.585
there's the big animal itself.

00:23:34.795 --> 00:23:36.745
So can you just talk to me?

00:23:36.745 --> 00:23:36.925
Yeah.

00:23:36.925 --> 00:23:38.185
The sensory issues of.

00:23:38.995 --> 00:23:43.225
Whatever equipment he had to have
on his body, the sensory issues

00:23:43.255 --> 00:23:49.735
of the water, and then the sensory
slash fear of this big dolphin.

00:23:49.735 --> 00:23:53.755
Like what was, what was,
how did it progress for him?

00:23:55.465 --> 00:24:00.925
Monique: Well, the wetsuit there was a
little thing because it is, yeah, from,

00:24:01.075 --> 00:24:04.015
from his, his angle till his shoulder.

00:24:04.075 --> 00:24:07.115
It was and but he, he, yeah.

00:24:07.165 --> 00:24:12.145
When he knew I'm going into the
water, it seems like it was okay

00:24:12.145 --> 00:24:16.925
because I think that's our lock
stand is very good in the water.

00:24:17.135 --> 00:24:17.165
Okay.

00:24:17.165 --> 00:24:18.605
He's a very good swimmer.

00:24:18.785 --> 00:24:19.025
Yeah.

00:24:19.115 --> 00:24:21.245
And he's not afraid of dos.

00:24:21.755 --> 00:24:22.985
He likes it.

00:24:23.195 --> 00:24:25.755
He get a special yeah.

00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:30.050
Vest arm I don't know how
you call it, pressure vest.

00:24:30.050 --> 00:24:33.300
The pressure vest that keeps him
above the water because otherwise

00:24:33.300 --> 00:24:35.190
he had Oh, a flotation Yeah.

00:24:35.190 --> 00:24:35.610
Device.

00:24:35.610 --> 00:24:35.910
Yeah,

00:24:36.030 --> 00:24:36.570
Rupert Isaacson: yeah,

00:24:36.570 --> 00:24:36.590
Monique: yeah, yeah.

00:24:37.030 --> 00:24:42.640
But our son, he would, every time
he would like to die with the

00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.880
dolphins, when the dolphins, yeah.

00:24:45.940 --> 00:24:48.760
Going to die, he thought
okay, I'm going with you.

00:24:48.760 --> 00:24:51.965
But it couldn't because
he had that crazy, so,

00:24:52.065 --> 00:24:53.980
Rupert Isaacson: and this,
how did he react to that?

00:24:54.440 --> 00:25:01.180
Monique: It, it it goes very well, but he
was the lucky man because after a day or

00:25:01.330 --> 00:25:08.470
10 by getting therapy, his therapist told
us he may go diving with the dolphins.

00:25:08.470 --> 00:25:08.830
Rupert Isaacson: Wow.

00:25:09.310 --> 00:25:10.000
Okay.

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:10.090
Yeah.

00:25:10.120 --> 00:25:10.330
So the,

00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:16.330
Monique: the thing we said it is
okay, but please dive with him because

00:25:16.540 --> 00:25:19.060
he doesn't know anything about.

00:25:20.065 --> 00:25:23.065
How deep the dolphin is going or, yeah.

00:25:23.065 --> 00:25:25.765
So please, and go with him.

00:25:26.015 --> 00:25:29.345
And they have done that,
and it was beautiful.

00:25:30.125 --> 00:25:33.365
He was, yeah, he was, he was, yeah.

00:25:33.365 --> 00:25:33.845
Ecstatic.

00:25:34.415 --> 00:25:35.675
It was, it was beautiful.

00:25:35.735 --> 00:25:36.125
Yeah.

00:25:36.815 --> 00:25:39.665
Rupert Isaacson: How long did the
sessions with the dolphin last?

00:25:40.835 --> 00:25:41.975
About an hour.

00:25:42.065 --> 00:25:42.695
Husband: Yeah.

00:25:42.730 --> 00:25:44.710
The, the, the whole session was two hours.

00:25:44.770 --> 00:25:45.830
Was two hours, yeah.

00:25:45.830 --> 00:25:51.395
The first hour they were on the docks
and doing therapy like, like squeezing

00:25:51.395 --> 00:25:55.925
and, and he had to make puzzles
at et cetera that kind of stuff.

00:25:56.365 --> 00:26:00.705
He didn't like that at the
first at the first three or four

00:26:00.705 --> 00:26:02.745
times he was screaming a lot.

00:26:03.195 --> 00:26:08.675
But after that he, he well, he
recognized that if he did the, the.

00:26:09.250 --> 00:26:11.045
The, the playing and the therapy.

00:26:11.045 --> 00:26:11.615
Right.

00:26:11.645 --> 00:26:18.275
Is reward again, was swimming with the
dolphins and that he, he, he liked a lot.

00:26:18.275 --> 00:26:23.385
And the total session was, was two
hours, five days a week at the same time.

00:26:24.315 --> 00:26:24.795
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:26:24.795 --> 00:26:30.325
Now you told me when we were
speaking before I hit record you

00:26:30.325 --> 00:26:35.575
told me that he became really verbal
during his time with the Dolphins.

00:26:36.085 --> 00:26:42.655
Can you describe the before,
during, and after of that process?

00:26:45.595 --> 00:26:50.225
Husband: Well, I mentioned already
he, when when things were difficult

00:26:50.225 --> 00:26:55.515
for Sam, for Sam to understand because
it, it, it was well, it, it, yeah,

00:26:55.545 --> 00:26:57.195
just, it was too difficult for him.

00:26:57.195 --> 00:27:00.645
He, he didn't understand what,
what they wanted from him or

00:27:00.645 --> 00:27:02.415
what to do or what to see.

00:27:02.495 --> 00:27:03.335
Something like that.

00:27:04.265 --> 00:27:10.825
He can, could only express his, his,
his feelings by screaming because

00:27:10.830 --> 00:27:14.145
he, he didn't talk at all after.

00:27:14.385 --> 00:27:18.645
And, and, and my Monique just
mentioned how we went to, into

00:27:18.645 --> 00:27:20.925
the plane with a lot of screaming.

00:27:21.195 --> 00:27:25.765
And when we went back, he didn't scream
at all because the most important

00:27:25.765 --> 00:27:31.385
thing we've learned over there is when
we predict what's going to happen.

00:27:31.385 --> 00:27:36.695
For some it, it, it is, it
gives him a lot of rest.

00:27:36.695 --> 00:27:41.105
He feels comfortable, comfortable
about knowing what is going to happen.

00:27:41.795 --> 00:27:45.695
That's one of the things we've,
we've learned over there.

00:27:46.325 --> 00:27:52.395
We also have learned to, to look at
some and go with his with his tempo,

00:27:52.395 --> 00:27:54.695
with his way, his rhythm of living.

00:27:54.695 --> 00:27:55.205
Yeah.

00:27:56.105 --> 00:27:58.985
That, that are the most important
things we, we've learned.

00:27:59.075 --> 00:27:59.405
Yes.

00:27:59.465 --> 00:27:59.975
Over there.

00:28:00.065 --> 00:28:00.455
Monique: Yes.

00:28:00.455 --> 00:28:06.450
And, and the, the thing about the, the,
the words he, he, he was learning the,

00:28:06.450 --> 00:28:12.480
the, the letters, the words, the we are
people who like to talk and we talk a lot,

00:28:12.990 --> 00:28:17.870
but because we think we can, everything
arrange with talking, talking, talking.

00:28:18.350 --> 00:28:20.720
But silence is saying much more.

00:28:21.020 --> 00:28:27.060
And that was also with Stan when
when we went over there and they saw

00:28:27.060 --> 00:28:31.185
he was doing it very well with his
letters and, and that kind of thing.

00:28:31.395 --> 00:28:35.335
And we came home school picked it up also.

00:28:35.395 --> 00:28:39.295
His teacher said, okay,
that's very nice to hear.

00:28:39.325 --> 00:28:40.705
We are going further with that.

00:28:41.155 --> 00:28:43.825
We taken that, that kind of therapy.

00:28:44.230 --> 00:28:49.480
Further with him so he can learn words
and we call it in Dutch word build.

00:28:50.080 --> 00:28:51.950
And so he had word,

00:28:51.950 --> 00:28:51.960
Rupert Isaacson: image.

00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:51.970
Word?

00:28:52.035 --> 00:28:52.645
Word image.

00:28:52.645 --> 00:28:53.150
Word picture.

00:28:53.150 --> 00:28:53.510
Yeah.

00:28:53.510 --> 00:28:57.830
Monique: And, and because he, he
visual, he's, he's very strong.

00:28:58.070 --> 00:29:03.610
And that was his way to learn
words and learn the meaning of

00:29:03.610 --> 00:29:08.880
the words, because that was also
what makes him uncomfortable.

00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:12.120
Because when we are talking,
there are a lot of words.

00:29:12.330 --> 00:29:14.250
He doesn't say anything to him.

00:29:14.250 --> 00:29:16.710
He, he understand, what
are you talking about?

00:29:16.710 --> 00:29:20.070
I hear a lot of noise, but I
don't know what you are telling

00:29:20.070 --> 00:29:22.170
me or what are you talking about?

00:29:22.170 --> 00:29:27.900
So that, that makes extension a lot,
a lot of more and, and, and, yeah.

00:29:27.930 --> 00:29:31.320
So he became to screaming,
et cetera, et cetera.

00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:33.540
And when school, yeah.

00:29:33.840 --> 00:29:36.000
Take it over from there.

00:29:36.450 --> 00:29:36.870
Yeah.

00:29:36.870 --> 00:29:40.530
They, they, he makes, he makes, yeah.

00:29:41.580 --> 00:29:42.690
Husband: The screaming.

00:29:42.725 --> 00:29:43.015
Yeah.

00:29:43.285 --> 00:29:43.855
Went away.

00:29:43.965 --> 00:29:44.255
Went

00:29:44.255 --> 00:29:45.535
Monique: when, after a few, yeah.

00:29:45.845 --> 00:29:46.135
Yeah.

00:29:46.235 --> 00:29:46.455
It

00:29:46.455 --> 00:29:46.735
Husband: stopped.

00:29:46.735 --> 00:29:47.175
Totally.

00:29:47.565 --> 00:29:47.855
Yeah.

00:29:49.885 --> 00:29:53.130
Rupert Isaacson: And he, when he came back
from the Dolphins, he was able to talk,

00:29:53.130 --> 00:29:56.550
he was able to express his needs and say,

00:29:57.730 --> 00:29:59.170
Hungry Mommy, I'm thirsty.

00:29:59.170 --> 00:30:02.470
Or was it still in the early stages?

00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:04.420
Monique: No, he still doesn't do that.

00:30:04.900 --> 00:30:05.350
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:30:05.770 --> 00:30:06.940
Monique: He still doesn't do that.

00:30:06.990 --> 00:30:13.460
It's never when he came back at home
then he will go for his drink and

00:30:13.460 --> 00:30:19.050
his candy, but he will never tell
us from himself what he has done.

00:30:19.740 --> 00:30:20.100
Never.

00:30:20.100 --> 00:30:21.510
We always have to ask

00:30:21.510 --> 00:30:22.020
Rupert Isaacson: him.

00:30:22.050 --> 00:30:22.080
Okay.

00:30:23.340 --> 00:30:23.640
Monique: Yeah.

00:30:23.645 --> 00:30:24.005
He will never.

00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:28.200
Rupert Isaacson: When, can you
describe how he is verbal now?

00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:30.690
Like how you, how he would talk to you?

00:30:31.410 --> 00:30:36.220
Monique: Well, we recognize that his
meaning is, is a lot bigger of words.

00:30:36.220 --> 00:30:40.540
So he can in that way
explain what, what you want.

00:30:40.840 --> 00:30:42.850
That is, that is going very well.

00:30:43.120 --> 00:30:45.310
And that's his progress he made.

00:30:46.630 --> 00:30:47.950
Rupert Isaacson: Can
you give me an example?

00:30:49.810 --> 00:30:49.960
Husband: Well,

00:30:50.410 --> 00:30:50.920
Monique: yeah.

00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:54.820
Husband: First of all in the beginning
when we asked him how was school,

00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:57.100
it was good and nothing more.

00:30:57.550 --> 00:30:58.810
Rupert Isaacson: That
sounds like many kids.

00:30:58.810 --> 00:30:59.275
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:01.805 --> 00:31:04.505
Husband: It was like, I know.

00:31:05.725 --> 00:31:08.880
But when you asked what have
you, what what have you done on

00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.720
school have you done at school?

00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:18.590
He didn't say anything, but now he
he tells us in in, in a few words,

00:31:18.860 --> 00:31:23.890
i, I have I have swing, I have
puzzled, I have been with the animals.

00:31:23.950 --> 00:31:28.000
So yeah, that kind of of words.

00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:33.310
He used to tell us what he
what his day was, what his

00:31:33.310 --> 00:31:35.135
day was what his day like was.

00:31:35.140 --> 00:31:35.190
Mm-hmm.

00:31:35.300 --> 00:31:35.590
Yeah.

00:31:37.055 --> 00:31:37.945
Rupert Isaacson: And okay.

00:31:37.945 --> 00:31:42.805
So you, when he came back from
URA South the first time, 'cause

00:31:42.805 --> 00:31:44.125
I know you went two times.

00:31:44.335 --> 00:31:44.605
Yes.

00:31:44.755 --> 00:31:51.625
What would you say, how was he
speaking after that first trip?

00:31:52.465 --> 00:31:53.605
How was he using words?

00:31:54.985 --> 00:31:56.155
Monique: Very functional.

00:31:56.755 --> 00:31:56.905
Yeah.

00:31:56.905 --> 00:31:59.605
Stan is a boy who was very functional.

00:31:59.905 --> 00:32:02.605
So he get his, his things he needs

00:32:03.815 --> 00:32:07.445
Husband: by drinking,
by, yes, by food, by,

00:32:07.955 --> 00:32:08.705
Rupert Isaacson: playing.

00:32:08.765 --> 00:32:14.615
So would he say, would he ask for
things or how was he expressing himself?

00:32:14.645 --> 00:32:15.005
Yes.

00:32:15.055 --> 00:32:18.245
Monique: Well, that
became so about the years.

00:32:18.245 --> 00:32:21.725
He, he he's going to
to do that a lot more.

00:32:21.995 --> 00:32:28.290
When he don't want anything or he don't
want to tell us anything more, then he,

00:32:28.510 --> 00:32:33.725
he, he said to ans to us, no, not anymore.

00:32:34.265 --> 00:32:34.295
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:32:34.535 --> 00:32:37.595
Monique: So that's, that's
something he has learned.

00:32:37.625 --> 00:32:40.895
When I don't want anything
anymore, I have to tell them.

00:32:41.165 --> 00:32:42.875
Rupert Isaacson: And
this began after Carissa?

00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:43.000
Yes.

00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:43.600
Monique: And yes.

00:32:43.940 --> 00:32:45.305
Yes, yes, yes.

00:32:45.845 --> 00:32:45.965
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:32:45.965 --> 00:32:47.195
This is really interesting.

00:32:47.255 --> 00:32:52.245
I often when I'm giving people
trainings, I tell them, you must

00:32:52.245 --> 00:32:57.915
value negative communication as
highly as positive communication.

00:32:57.915 --> 00:32:57.975
Yeah.

00:32:58.305 --> 00:33:02.565
Because when you're dealing with somebody
who's nonverbal, if they tell you what

00:33:02.565 --> 00:33:07.755
they don't like and what they don't
want, this is massive progress, you know?

00:33:07.755 --> 00:33:07.905
Yeah.

00:33:10.125 --> 00:33:12.135
Please tell me what else
you don't want to do.

00:33:12.465 --> 00:33:17.315
And of course, in normal parenting,
this is regarded as you know, a real

00:33:17.315 --> 00:33:20.705
problem when the kids are negative and
they, but of course, from our point

00:33:20.705 --> 00:33:23.645
of view, often things happen that way.

00:33:23.645 --> 00:33:24.365
First.

00:33:25.115 --> 00:33:32.375
No, I don't want, and I suppose in a way
it is the same with neurotypical IE normal

00:33:32.945 --> 00:33:36.275
kids, they usually actually start with no.

00:33:37.055 --> 00:33:37.715
Yeah.

00:33:37.865 --> 00:33:43.865
At two years old, you know, now and then
from, that's the first self-advocacy.

00:33:45.035 --> 00:33:48.845
So you saw that after Issa the first time?

00:33:49.055 --> 00:33:49.565
Yes.

00:33:49.590 --> 00:33:49.810
Yes.

00:33:49.815 --> 00:33:57.495
You went back again, how long between the
two, was it the next year, three years?

00:33:57.555 --> 00:33:57.975
Three years.

00:33:57.975 --> 00:33:57.995
Three years?

00:33:58.125 --> 00:34:00.285
Why, why three years?

00:34:00.345 --> 00:34:03.105
And tell me what happened
on the second trip.

00:34:05.115 --> 00:34:09.115
Monique: Well, he did it very
good at school and you have

00:34:09.115 --> 00:34:14.205
also the time to make that, that
money you needed to go out there.

00:34:14.205 --> 00:34:14.235
Okay.

00:34:14.325 --> 00:34:20.560
So, you are when you went out there,
you going beneath or do you call it?

00:34:20.745 --> 00:34:23.415
At last on the, on the,
on the, on the list?

00:34:23.445 --> 00:34:23.655
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:34:23.745 --> 00:34:24.015
Okay.

00:34:24.015 --> 00:34:24.135
You

00:34:24.135 --> 00:34:25.905
Monique: start all over again to

00:34:26.085 --> 00:34:26.685
Rupert Isaacson: get on top.

00:34:26.685 --> 00:34:26.805
To

00:34:26.805 --> 00:34:27.615
Monique: get on top,

00:34:27.645 --> 00:34:27.915
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.

00:34:28.215 --> 00:34:28.725
Oh, I see.

00:34:28.725 --> 00:34:29.475
There's a list.

00:34:29.715 --> 00:34:31.665
Monique: Yes, yes, yes.

00:34:31.665 --> 00:34:32.265
There's a list.

00:34:32.265 --> 00:34:37.545
And so you have to do things to, to
get your money again, to go over there.

00:34:37.580 --> 00:34:37.870
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:39.750
Monique: So, that's why.

00:34:39.750 --> 00:34:44.390
And then when when it is already
there and you can go to Cura South,

00:34:44.390 --> 00:34:47.630
then also has to be there some place

00:34:49.820 --> 00:34:50.300
to go.

00:34:50.630 --> 00:34:52.760
So, that's why the three years.

00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:52.970
Got it.

00:34:54.275 --> 00:34:54.495
Yes.

00:34:55.070 --> 00:34:55.520
Yes.

00:34:56.105 --> 00:34:58.435
Rupert Isaacson: If you're in the
equine assisted field, or if you're

00:34:58.435 --> 00:35:02.865
considering a career in the equine
assisted field, you might want to consider

00:35:02.935 --> 00:35:07.205
taking one of our three neuroscience
backed equine assisted programs.

00:35:07.265 --> 00:35:12.845
Horseboy method, now established
for 20 years, is the original

00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:19.750
Equine assisted program specifically
designed for autism, mentored by and

00:35:19.750 --> 00:35:22.420
developed in conjunction with Dr.

00:35:22.420 --> 00:35:25.300
Temple Grandin and many
other neuroscientists.

00:35:25.640 --> 00:35:28.910
We work in the saddle
with younger children.

00:35:29.405 --> 00:35:34.355
Helping them create oxytocin in their
bodies and neuroplasticity in the brain.

00:35:35.015 --> 00:35:36.455
It works incredibly well.

00:35:36.455 --> 00:35:38.175
It's now in about 40 countries.

00:35:38.885 --> 00:35:39.635
Check it out.

00:35:40.315 --> 00:35:44.465
If you're working without horses,
you might want to look at movement

00:35:44.475 --> 00:35:47.845
method, which gets a very, very
similar effect, but can also be

00:35:47.845 --> 00:35:49.595
applied in schools, in homes.

00:35:49.795 --> 00:35:54.785
If you're working with families, you can
give them really tangible exercises to do

00:35:54.785 --> 00:35:56.325
at home that will create neuroplasticity.

00:35:57.680 --> 00:35:58.960
when they're not with you.

00:35:59.470 --> 00:36:02.910
Finally, we have taquine
equine integration.

00:36:03.270 --> 00:36:05.890
If you know anything about our
programs, you know that we need a

00:36:05.890 --> 00:36:09.890
really high standard of horsemanship
in order to create the oxytocin

00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:14.210
in the body of the person that
we're working with, child or adult.

00:36:14.650 --> 00:36:17.990
So, this means we need to train
a horse in collection, but this

00:36:18.010 --> 00:36:22.250
also has a really beneficial
effect on the horse's well being.

00:36:22.450 --> 00:36:26.740
And it also ends your time conflict,
where you're wondering, oh my gosh, how

00:36:26.740 --> 00:36:30.040
am I going to condition my horses and
maintain them and give them what they

00:36:30.040 --> 00:36:33.135
need, as well as Serving my clients.

00:36:33.375 --> 00:36:37.875
Takine equine integration aimed
at a more adult client base

00:36:38.205 --> 00:36:39.855
absolutely gives you this.

00:36:39.915 --> 00:36:40.155
Okay.

00:36:40.155 --> 00:36:42.195
So tell me what happened
on that second trip.

00:36:43.395 --> 00:36:47.865
Monique: Well, we had still a
little thing because Stan still

00:36:47.865 --> 00:36:50.955
wearing diapers at that age.

00:36:50.955 --> 00:36:51.945
At that age

00:36:52.335 --> 00:36:53.685
Rupert Isaacson: he would be by then 12.

00:36:53.775 --> 00:36:54.735
Yeah, 11.

00:36:54.735 --> 00:36:55.455
Yeah, 11.

00:36:55.460 --> 00:36:55.710
Monique: Yeah.

00:36:56.100 --> 00:36:56.390
Yeah.

00:36:56.895 --> 00:36:58.845
So that was our next thing.

00:36:59.265 --> 00:37:00.085
We, that

00:37:00.115 --> 00:37:01.925
Husband: that was our main goal.

00:37:01.925 --> 00:37:03.125
Monique: Goal, yeah.

00:37:03.125 --> 00:37:03.875
Yeah.

00:37:03.875 --> 00:37:08.095
And well, it, it also went
very well, not directly.

00:37:08.500 --> 00:37:15.420
Because when we went over there, they
have done a lot of other things instead

00:37:16.050 --> 00:37:20.880
of wearing the di the, the diaper
and, and doing something about that.

00:37:21.030 --> 00:37:26.220
It's actually almost the same
when I am working with my horses.

00:37:26.520 --> 00:37:31.450
It's, it's in the moment what, what,
what tells the horse what to do.

00:37:31.570 --> 00:37:34.210
So, and it was also with the dolphins.

00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:36.870
So the second time yeah.

00:37:36.870 --> 00:37:37.860
What, what had they do?

00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:39.120
They, they, they make him,

00:37:39.690 --> 00:37:41.375
Husband: especially, they learn how Yeah.

00:37:41.475 --> 00:37:42.615
To, to wait.

00:37:43.125 --> 00:37:43.415
Yeah.

00:37:43.475 --> 00:37:49.010
And to get the patience about
things he want or or otherwise

00:37:49.200 --> 00:37:50.695
things we have to do first.

00:37:51.795 --> 00:37:58.035
Before we can help or we can do things
with some That's the, the, the, yeah.

00:37:58.245 --> 00:37:59.175
Most important thing.

00:37:59.175 --> 00:38:06.245
They have learned him to wait and they
also have, have learned us to because

00:38:06.245 --> 00:38:11.315
we always had the focus on some,
but we also have two other children

00:38:11.765 --> 00:38:14.645
and they also need our attention.

00:38:14.915 --> 00:38:19.715
But when we were doing something
with the other children and we saw

00:38:19.775 --> 00:38:26.630
that Stu was asking for us, or, or
he was was was high in his yeah.

00:38:27.705 --> 00:38:28.565
In extension.

00:38:28.565 --> 00:38:30.260
Yeah, in extension.

00:38:30.350 --> 00:38:38.820
Then we sort automatically went to Stu to
help him, and they say that's not, well,

00:38:39.150 --> 00:38:41.310
not quite fair to the other children.

00:38:41.700 --> 00:38:45.605
So we have learned to say Tostan, no stem.

00:38:46.740 --> 00:38:47.640
Monique: Not now what?

00:38:47.640 --> 00:38:48.270
Husband: Not now.

00:38:48.270 --> 00:38:53.040
You have to wait for a moment,
but after this we come to you.

00:38:53.580 --> 00:38:54.090
Yeah.

00:38:54.330 --> 00:38:59.670
And that also went with as, as Stum
asked for, can I get some candy?

00:39:00.010 --> 00:39:03.610
We said and it also was almost
dinner time, something like that.

00:39:03.820 --> 00:39:08.320
Then we said to stone, no stone,
you can't have candy, but you can

00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:12.640
get a banana or something like
that, something else instead.

00:39:12.730 --> 00:39:18.280
So we learned to, to bend things
that weren't quite right for

00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:22.210
stone into group things and Yeah.

00:39:22.660 --> 00:39:22.960
Monique: Yeah.

00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:23.830
And patience.

00:39:23.830 --> 00:39:24.520
And patience.

00:39:24.550 --> 00:39:25.030
Yeah.

00:39:25.030 --> 00:39:26.080
And he learned quite well.

00:39:28.210 --> 00:39:28.810
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:39:28.810 --> 00:39:35.410
So, but did the toilet training with the
diapers advance during the second trip?

00:39:36.455 --> 00:39:36.675
Monique: No.

00:39:37.225 --> 00:39:38.500
Well, no.

00:39:38.900 --> 00:39:40.010
That's not quite right.

00:39:40.060 --> 00:39:42.580
It became better when we went home.

00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:46.750
And after that he only had it by nights.

00:39:46.900 --> 00:39:47.110
Yeah.

00:39:47.230 --> 00:39:47.260
Okay.

00:39:47.260 --> 00:39:50.260
He was wearing a diaper,
so that went very well.

00:39:50.620 --> 00:39:54.430
And I think about when he was, I think 13.

00:39:54.430 --> 00:39:55.750
Yeah, something like that.

00:39:55.990 --> 00:39:57.310
He didn't wear it at all.

00:39:57.485 --> 00:39:57.775
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:39:57.805 --> 00:39:58.895
Tell me, finish

00:39:58.895 --> 00:39:59.255
Monique: with it.

00:39:59.645 --> 00:39:59.935
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:40:00.580 --> 00:40:01.060
Monique: Yeah.

00:40:01.240 --> 00:40:04.900
Rupert Isaacson: I'm, I'm interested
to know what did they do in Issa

00:40:06.610 --> 00:40:10.090
to target the toilet training, but

00:40:10.090 --> 00:40:13.510
Monique: actually nothing because
they have other targets with him.

00:40:13.510 --> 00:40:17.110
Rupert Isaacson: So why do
you think it changed to only

00:40:17.110 --> 00:40:19.930
nights after that second trip?

00:40:19.990 --> 00:40:26.315
Monique: Well, we think that because he
became to learn better how, how his, how

00:40:26.315 --> 00:40:30.755
his body was working and how his tension.

00:40:31.080 --> 00:40:36.490
He could regular it on better
ways he gets space in his mind.

00:40:36.490 --> 00:40:40.600
And so he get also a signal
I have to go to the bathroom.

00:40:40.605 --> 00:40:40.835
Yeah.

00:40:41.260 --> 00:40:45.185
And that was and that, that was
also what we have learned from, from

00:40:45.580 --> 00:40:50.880
Charles with, with with autism that
they don't get a single right away.

00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:56.510
And and that was with, with Stan, he
he get a sign, I, I have to sign on

00:40:56.510 --> 00:41:01.960
the, on the single, and I, I, I have,
I have to go to the bathroom and yeah.

00:41:01.965 --> 00:41:03.790
From, from from, yeah.

00:41:03.790 --> 00:41:04.960
The, the, yeah.

00:41:05.410 --> 00:41:05.500
Well,

00:41:06.310 --> 00:41:08.890
Husband: the, the most important
lesson we've learned, and that's

00:41:08.890 --> 00:41:09.970
with a lot of things with Stu.

00:41:11.010 --> 00:41:13.830
Stu does things when he is ready, ready

00:41:13.830 --> 00:41:14.040
Monique: for it.

00:41:14.340 --> 00:41:14.850
Yeah.

00:41:14.850 --> 00:41:16.880
Husband: You can't push things.

00:41:17.285 --> 00:41:19.490
To, to get it, to get it done.

00:41:19.520 --> 00:41:26.790
Because if he isn't ready in his mind
and in his body you don't get resolved.

00:41:27.240 --> 00:41:32.190
So you have to recognize when he's
ready to, to learn something, to

00:41:32.190 --> 00:41:33.990
accept something, to do something,

00:41:34.470 --> 00:41:34.920
Rupert Isaacson: you know,

00:41:37.200 --> 00:41:38.610
listening to the story.

00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:45.060
I can also imagine some things
happening in his brain during this time

00:41:45.060 --> 00:41:48.840
with the dolphins because you going
somewhere very new, very different.

00:41:49.295 --> 00:41:55.290
I very be surprising in a good way.

00:41:55.830 --> 00:41:56.430
Yeah.

00:41:56.540 --> 00:42:00.500
Magical, you know, this time with
dolphins and of course what happens

00:42:00.500 --> 00:42:04.730
and a lot of movement involved and
a lot of natural sensory stuff.

00:42:04.730 --> 00:42:08.720
You're in water, you're with the
big animal, you are, you've got the,

00:42:09.170 --> 00:42:13.880
sensory, comfort of the deep pressure
of the person in the water with you.

00:42:14.250 --> 00:42:15.180
All of these things.

00:42:15.180 --> 00:42:22.030
And with this comes a
neurological reaction.

00:42:22.630 --> 00:42:28.630
Yeah, accelerated, which we would
call neuroplasticity, but specifically

00:42:28.690 --> 00:42:32.890
the production of a protein in
the brain, which happens whenever

00:42:32.890 --> 00:42:34.720
you do something new basically.

00:42:35.060 --> 00:42:40.200
Particularly if it's physical moving
and problem solving effectively.

00:42:40.410 --> 00:42:47.930
And that's a protein with a, its
name is four letters, BDNF, brain

00:42:48.290 --> 00:42:51.290
derived neurotrophic factor.

00:42:51.930 --> 00:42:57.900
When you do something with what
one calls novel movement, let's

00:42:57.900 --> 00:43:00.630
say you sit on a horse, let's
say you're going in the water.

00:43:00.630 --> 00:43:02.280
Let's say you run across.

00:43:02.745 --> 00:43:03.315
A field.

00:43:03.945 --> 00:43:04.005
Yeah.

00:43:04.085 --> 00:43:09.035
It's very different running across
a field to running on a playground

00:43:09.395 --> 00:43:11.855
because on the playground you
don't need to think too much.

00:43:11.885 --> 00:43:12.935
Where do my feet go?

00:43:13.455 --> 00:43:17.385
On the field, you must think
because if you put your foot in the

00:43:17.385 --> 00:43:20.505
wrong place, you fall over because
there's a little hole or something.

00:43:20.505 --> 00:43:22.035
So your mind has to be more active.

00:43:22.545 --> 00:43:24.435
You go with the dolphin,
you go with the horse.

00:43:24.435 --> 00:43:27.135
This effect is amplified.

00:43:27.855 --> 00:43:33.305
And so you get incredible amounts of
neuroplasticity, of brain development

00:43:33.605 --> 00:43:35.435
in these types of situation.

00:43:35.835 --> 00:43:41.415
And then of course, this could
be very scary, which would shut

00:43:41.415 --> 00:43:42.765
down the brain development.

00:43:42.915 --> 00:43:44.475
But of course he's there with the family.

00:43:44.625 --> 00:43:46.095
He's there with all this love.

00:43:46.275 --> 00:43:47.235
He's there.

00:43:47.475 --> 00:43:50.985
There's I'm sure all kinds of.

00:43:51.810 --> 00:43:56.430
Heart resonance coming from the
dolphin, which has a very big heart

00:43:56.430 --> 00:43:58.620
throwing off an electromagnetic field.

00:43:58.950 --> 00:43:59.430
Yeah.

00:43:59.430 --> 00:44:00.030
Yes, indeed.

00:44:00.030 --> 00:44:00.840
It's very big.

00:44:01.260 --> 00:44:06.120
And of course the dolphin being this
hyper intelligent com, you know,

00:44:06.170 --> 00:44:12.260
social compassionate animal is doing
all kinds of work with him on a level

00:44:12.260 --> 00:44:13.880
that we can't even probably see.

00:44:14.090 --> 00:44:20.600
You put all this together, I can
see how he could come back from

00:44:20.600 --> 00:44:27.500
that experience, able to regulate
his toileting, for example, because

00:44:27.500 --> 00:44:28.730
of the, the brain development.

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:32.390
Okay, so we've talked about dolphins
and this is wonderful, and actually I'm

00:44:32.390 --> 00:44:34.760
going to have these guys on the show.

00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:39.320
I'm going to reach out to them, even
though it's not equine, it's still,

00:44:39.560 --> 00:44:41.840
you know, large animals and nature.

00:44:42.200 --> 00:44:42.290
Yeah.

00:44:42.530 --> 00:44:43.910
We need to talk to these people.

00:44:43.910 --> 00:44:48.260
Clearly they will have things that we can
learn from, but let's go to horses now.

00:44:49.010 --> 00:44:51.220
So, Monique, you are a horse woman?

00:44:51.640 --> 00:44:51.760
Yes.

00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:53.350
Were you always a horse woman?

00:44:53.680 --> 00:44:54.310
Yes.

00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:54.640
Monique: Grew up with

00:44:55.585 --> 00:44:55.665
Rupert Isaacson: it.

00:44:55.725 --> 00:44:56.065
I'm nearly

00:44:56.255 --> 00:44:57.425
Monique: born in the unstable.

00:44:58.175 --> 00:44:59.625
Okay, okay.

00:44:59.640 --> 00:45:00.420
Yeah.

00:45:00.420 --> 00:45:02.160
Rupert Isaacson: So since
you were a kid, horses.

00:45:02.160 --> 00:45:03.120
Horses, right?

00:45:03.150 --> 00:45:03.570
Yes.

00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:11.640
And were you having horses,
owning horses while Stan was in

00:45:11.640 --> 00:45:13.890
his early years of development?

00:45:14.430 --> 00:45:14.760
Yes.

00:45:14.790 --> 00:45:19.410
And what was Stan's involvement
or interaction with these horses?

00:45:20.100 --> 00:45:20.580
Monique: Yes.

00:45:20.630 --> 00:45:26.420
We've always had horses and when we get
this, this house where we are living now

00:45:26.690 --> 00:45:29.750
I have my horses standing by our house.

00:45:29.780 --> 00:45:34.130
They were first standing with my
parents, but then they moved to us.

00:45:35.030 --> 00:45:35.060
Okay.

00:45:35.060 --> 00:45:35.710
And yeah.

00:45:35.990 --> 00:45:39.290
Stu and animals are just one.

00:45:39.500 --> 00:45:40.020
That's okay.

00:45:40.530 --> 00:45:44.240
If it is a prock a dog,
a cat, a horse, never.

00:45:44.240 --> 00:45:49.700
Mines where animals are there
is stem and with a horse.

00:45:49.730 --> 00:45:54.650
We had a pony called Oscar,
and Oscar is a lovely horse.

00:45:55.100 --> 00:46:00.005
And what he did, he had a very
big buckets and he put it behind

00:46:00.005 --> 00:46:01.835
the top there, you call it.

00:46:01.835 --> 00:46:02.225
Yeah.

00:46:02.495 --> 00:46:03.865
And he was standing on.

00:46:04.500 --> 00:46:10.040
And he was for an hour busy with a
horse to go on the back of the horse.

00:46:10.340 --> 00:46:12.260
Rupert Isaacson: So he used
the bucket to climb on top?

00:46:12.380 --> 00:46:13.580
Monique: Yes, yes.

00:46:13.580 --> 00:46:15.380
But the horse fought then.

00:46:15.470 --> 00:46:15.980
Oh no.

00:46:16.040 --> 00:46:16.700
Oh no.

00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:17.630
Ride it there.

00:46:17.630 --> 00:46:19.460
That's, that's, that's better food.

00:46:19.460 --> 00:46:21.740
So I'm going to walk over there.

00:46:21.740 --> 00:46:24.830
And Stan was then taking the
bucket with him, put it on

00:46:24.830 --> 00:46:26.480
the ground again, stand on it.

00:46:26.540 --> 00:46:29.510
And so he was for an hour
busy with this horse.

00:46:29.780 --> 00:46:31.250
It was lovely to see.

00:46:31.250 --> 00:46:34.220
And when he sat on his
back, he was enjoying it.

00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:39.710
He was just sitting there, just look
over what, what, what kind of birds

00:46:39.710 --> 00:46:42.470
was were, were, were flying in the air.

00:46:42.500 --> 00:46:47.300
What he saw, what he was feeling
like what, and he Yeah, he was, he

00:46:47.300 --> 00:46:49.680
was really zen when he was with the

00:46:49.680 --> 00:46:50.430
Rupert Isaacson: horse.

00:46:50.970 --> 00:46:53.070
And how long this, and, sorry.

00:46:53.190 --> 00:46:53.490
Okay.

00:46:54.610 --> 00:46:57.400
At this point, you are
not running in capacity.

00:46:57.400 --> 00:46:58.510
You don't have a practice?

00:46:58.515 --> 00:46:58.725
No.

00:46:59.110 --> 00:46:59.500
No.

00:47:00.010 --> 00:47:01.330
What do you do you doing for a living?

00:47:01.330 --> 00:47:05.410
Are you just busy being a mom because you
have three kids and a special needs kid?

00:47:05.650 --> 00:47:06.340
Are you Yes.

00:47:06.430 --> 00:47:07.900
Trying to do a job.

00:47:08.350 --> 00:47:08.770
Monique: Yes.

00:47:08.770 --> 00:47:09.910
I had a job.

00:47:09.970 --> 00:47:11.050
I had a job.

00:47:11.100 --> 00:47:17.520
But when we knew it was a very
busy Trix, we call it, I think.

00:47:17.520 --> 00:47:17.730
Yeah.

00:47:17.730 --> 00:47:19.970
Therapy with our family, yeah.

00:47:19.970 --> 00:47:22.080
It was very stressful.

00:47:22.130 --> 00:47:23.210
Also for us.

00:47:23.520 --> 00:47:28.930
My husband just became his own office
and our daughter was very little.

00:47:29.230 --> 00:47:31.150
And I thought, no, no.

00:47:31.180 --> 00:47:36.960
Working by job elsewhere, it's, it's not
gonna bring us that, that we need it.

00:47:37.020 --> 00:47:37.080
Yeah.

00:47:37.470 --> 00:47:40.140
So, I stopped my job.

00:47:40.765 --> 00:47:45.005
I was working also on the
office and I was full-time mom.

00:47:45.035 --> 00:47:50.175
I liked it, but most of all,
I think our family became in,

00:47:50.175 --> 00:47:53.385
in another, another dimension.

00:47:53.415 --> 00:47:55.335
We, we get spaces.

00:47:55.335 --> 00:47:58.755
We, we, yeah, there was, there
was, yeah, we, we, it was

00:47:58.755 --> 00:47:58.965
Rupert Isaacson: time.

00:47:59.100 --> 00:47:59.710
Yeah, time.

00:47:59.710 --> 00:47:59.720
Yeah.

00:47:59.720 --> 00:48:00.195
Yeah.

00:48:00.195 --> 00:48:00.345
We

00:48:00.345 --> 00:48:02.475
Monique: get another energy in our house.

00:48:02.475 --> 00:48:04.605
So, and that was very, very nice.

00:48:05.055 --> 00:48:10.715
And I did some other college because I
don't want to sit, just sit being a mom.

00:48:12.065 --> 00:48:16.105
I also want to develop so,
I did how do you call it?

00:48:16.315 --> 00:48:16.585
Yeah.

00:48:17.855 --> 00:48:22.730
Yeah, I did some developing college
skills, champion, develop and, and,

00:48:22.870 --> 00:48:28.300
so, and then I thought, yeah, yeah,
but I have horses and I have the

00:48:28.300 --> 00:48:35.530
experience of our son, and when I
put it in a big bucket and I'm going

00:48:35.530 --> 00:48:40.990
to do something about that, maybe
something beautiful is going to happen.

00:48:40.990 --> 00:48:47.670
And so, my practice in Compe came
and I thought there is when I see my

00:48:47.670 --> 00:48:54.010
own experience, what my bosses bring
me in times that weren't that nice.

00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:58.480
I thought, yeah, yeah, I would
like to give other ones also this.

00:48:58.510 --> 00:49:06.130
I, I, I think, I really think with all
the experience I have, we have, we can

00:49:06.130 --> 00:49:13.810
learn other parents how you can deal
with a child like Stu who has autism.

00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:14.470
There is.

00:49:15.595 --> 00:49:20.195
Such a lot to learn in our for
example, temple Grandin, you know,

00:49:20.195 --> 00:49:23.345
where it was, it was our inspiration.

00:49:23.885 --> 00:49:29.895
And I've put it also in, in our blog
from Ura Sao, what she brings us.

00:49:30.285 --> 00:49:37.215
And always she is, she is coming
in my mind when I, when I have it

00:49:37.265 --> 00:49:41.315
a little bit difficult for myself,
then I think of Temple Grandin.

00:49:41.585 --> 00:49:46.865
When you are throwing the other
door open, then go for it because

00:49:46.895 --> 00:49:49.895
there are other things you can see.

00:49:50.135 --> 00:49:52.885
And, and yeah, it brings us a lot.

00:49:52.885 --> 00:49:59.365
And also in my practice with the horses,
because that's the other door, the,

00:49:59.365 --> 00:50:01.695
the, the horses they are just there.

00:50:02.385 --> 00:50:06.855
And when you are in the neighborhoods
of horses, it'll just started.

00:50:08.035 --> 00:50:10.530
It starts to brings you yeah.

00:50:10.980 --> 00:50:14.025
Such, such more, I don't, I don't know.

00:50:14.635 --> 00:50:15.960
I, how can I, yeah.

00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:16.500
I always, yeah,

00:50:16.500 --> 00:50:16.650
Rupert Isaacson: sure.

00:50:16.980 --> 00:50:19.260
I mean, you're preaching to the
converted here because we all

00:50:19.515 --> 00:50:20.190
Monique: Yeah, yeah.

00:50:20.190 --> 00:50:20.520
Everyone

00:50:20.520 --> 00:50:22.320
Rupert Isaacson: listening
to this show, we, we know the

00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:24.030
value of the horse in Yeah.

00:50:24.090 --> 00:50:24.870
Various ways.

00:50:24.870 --> 00:50:27.330
And what they bring a question though.

00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:31.650
How old was Stan when you started
your income capacity practice?

00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:36.360
Monique: Well, I have now my
practice for only three years.

00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:36.930
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:50:37.080 --> 00:50:37.710
Yeah.

00:50:37.710 --> 00:50:39.840
So you had to develop
a lot of time for him.

00:50:40.050 --> 00:50:40.590
Yes.

00:50:40.590 --> 00:50:44.010
So by the time he was sort
of in his late teens Yeah.

00:50:44.010 --> 00:50:44.100
Yes.

00:50:44.255 --> 00:50:46.530
You, to turn your attention Yes.

00:50:46.530 --> 00:50:49.200
To saying, how do I help other families?

00:50:49.200 --> 00:50:49.410
Yes.

00:50:49.590 --> 00:50:50.040
Got it.

00:50:50.520 --> 00:50:51.090
Okay.

00:50:51.330 --> 00:50:55.320
So I'd like to talk a little bit
about how you run your practice,

00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:58.770
but before that, everyone will
want to know how is Stan doing now?

00:50:58.770 --> 00:50:59.580
Where is he at?

00:50:59.850 --> 00:51:03.240
You know, and, and just for,
the listeners and viewers,

00:51:03.450 --> 00:51:05.940
Stan does not just have autism.

00:51:05.940 --> 00:51:10.020
He also does have an inter a
diagnosed intellectual disability

00:51:10.410 --> 00:51:12.360
in parallel with the autism.

00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:12.420
Yeah.

00:51:12.660 --> 00:51:19.080
So, one's expectations and so on must
be to some degree directed by this,

00:51:19.260 --> 00:51:25.850
but just so that people understand the
this neurological geography of, of Yes.

00:51:26.090 --> 00:51:28.640
So, so, so tell us, you
know, where is Stan now?

00:51:28.790 --> 00:51:29.600
What's his life?

00:51:29.600 --> 00:51:30.530
What's his day?

00:51:31.010 --> 00:51:32.690
What's, yeah.

00:51:32.780 --> 00:51:34.730
And then let's get to encompassing.

00:51:35.210 --> 00:51:35.510
Monique: Yes.

00:51:36.110 --> 00:51:41.360
Well, he is going for now for five days
a week to how do you, how do we call that

00:51:41.365 --> 00:51:43.505
earlier special daycare, special daycare.

00:51:44.855 --> 00:51:45.905
Yeah, something like that.

00:51:45.905 --> 00:51:46.025
Their

00:51:46.025 --> 00:51:47.135
Rupert Isaacson: services sort of thing.

00:51:47.135 --> 00:51:47.915
Yeah,

00:51:47.915 --> 00:51:47.935
Monique: yeah, yeah.

00:51:47.935 --> 00:51:50.840
Where he can also go to animals.

00:51:51.015 --> 00:51:51.305
Yeah.

00:51:51.485 --> 00:51:55.420
And he is a very he's in a, in a
very active group with the other

00:51:55.530 --> 00:51:56.940
Husband: yeah, they're working a lot.

00:51:57.210 --> 00:51:57.500
Yeah.

00:51:57.650 --> 00:51:58.140
Monique: They're,

00:51:58.140 --> 00:51:59.700
Husband: they're, they're swinging.

00:51:59.930 --> 00:52:04.465
They're, they're, they, they're
constantly busy with him.

00:52:05.845 --> 00:52:06.385
You

00:52:06.385 --> 00:52:07.280
Rupert Isaacson: told
before in a certain way.

00:52:07.550 --> 00:52:08.905
He's in, they're in nature a lot.

00:52:08.905 --> 00:52:10.105
What do they do in nature?

00:52:11.185 --> 00:52:13.760
Monique: Yes, they are going
riding with car and horses.

00:52:14.390 --> 00:52:14.680
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:52:14.680 --> 00:52:15.520
So he's 49

00:52:15.520 --> 00:52:17.625
Monique: and then they go into the forest.

00:52:17.935 --> 00:52:18.205
Yeah.

00:52:18.445 --> 00:52:19.465
He likes that a lot.

00:52:19.705 --> 00:52:22.255
He also goes to they have a donkey.

00:52:22.255 --> 00:52:24.535
They have chicken they have

00:52:24.605 --> 00:52:25.445
Rupert Isaacson: at the daycare.

00:52:25.445 --> 00:52:26.250
Is it like a castle?

00:52:27.455 --> 00:52:29.020
Is it what you would call a care farm?

00:52:29.800 --> 00:52:32.405
Monique: Kind of that, kind
of that, but they also have

00:52:32.465 --> 00:52:34.235
a lot of sports they can do.

00:52:34.325 --> 00:52:34.355
Okay.

00:52:34.355 --> 00:52:35.105
All they light.

00:52:35.105 --> 00:52:35.165
Yeah.

00:52:35.555 --> 00:52:38.195
So, there are, who goes to the gym?

00:52:38.385 --> 00:52:40.455
There are they, they going swimming?

00:52:40.515 --> 00:52:42.465
They are, they go for a long walk.

00:52:42.615 --> 00:52:46.635
Some they are going to, to do
some shopping in the village.

00:52:46.695 --> 00:52:49.485
They also, so they have to go for a walk.

00:52:49.485 --> 00:52:52.265
And when he is busy with his buddy.

00:52:52.355 --> 00:52:53.140
Buddy, yeah.

00:52:53.315 --> 00:52:53.705
Yeah.

00:52:53.765 --> 00:52:58.505
Then, then his mind's getting, getting
the opportunity to, to learn to develop.

00:52:58.655 --> 00:53:00.635
So that's very beautiful to see.

00:53:00.635 --> 00:53:00.785
And

00:53:00.785 --> 00:53:01.540
Rupert Isaacson: what is he learning?

00:53:02.765 --> 00:53:07.855
Monique: Well, we are we are recognized
that, that he is giving much more meaning

00:53:07.855 --> 00:53:12.335
to words and he can explain things better.

00:53:12.335 --> 00:53:15.955
And he is happier on his way.

00:53:15.985 --> 00:53:17.185
It, it, it doesn't.

00:53:18.025 --> 00:53:18.655
Custom.

00:53:18.655 --> 00:53:19.255
Yeah.

00:53:20.005 --> 00:53:23.245
Husband: And he takes initiative
to, to tell something.

00:53:23.695 --> 00:53:23.785
Yeah.

00:53:24.025 --> 00:53:26.095
What, what has happened that day?

00:53:26.095 --> 00:53:27.235
What he has seen.

00:53:27.325 --> 00:53:29.825
He wants to tell us things.

00:53:30.290 --> 00:53:30.580
Yeah.

00:53:30.600 --> 00:53:31.300
He wants to tell us.

00:53:31.355 --> 00:53:31.685
Yeah.

00:53:31.685 --> 00:53:31.985
But he

00:53:31.985 --> 00:53:37.245
Monique: also we had a couple
of weeks ago it was a holiday

00:53:37.455 --> 00:53:39.890
and we should went to the sea.

00:53:40.550 --> 00:53:41.240
To the beach.

00:53:41.240 --> 00:53:41.250
Yeah.

00:53:41.250 --> 00:53:41.280
To the beach.

00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:41.425
Yeah.

00:53:41.925 --> 00:53:43.765
And the big beach he call it.

00:53:45.115 --> 00:53:48.745
And so I told him, okay,
and, and what do we need?

00:53:49.555 --> 00:53:51.625
And he begin to talk.

00:53:51.690 --> 00:53:54.265
I, I thought, no, no, you can write.

00:53:55.015 --> 00:53:57.325
I told him, here, take a pen.

00:53:57.790 --> 00:54:01.330
Take a pencil and a paper
and put it on the paper.

00:54:01.330 --> 00:54:02.350
And so he did.

00:54:02.500 --> 00:54:07.010
And so he began to write it down
what we had to need for that day.

00:54:07.010 --> 00:54:07.100
Mm-hmm.

00:54:07.550 --> 00:54:07.820
Husband: Yeah.

00:54:07.850 --> 00:54:08.180
Wow.

00:54:08.630 --> 00:54:08.930
Wonderful.

00:54:08.930 --> 00:54:12.980
He made a, he made a list of about
six or seven things he, he went

00:54:12.980 --> 00:54:14.680
to get with him to the beach.

00:54:14.740 --> 00:54:14.830
Yes.

00:54:14.835 --> 00:54:14.920
But

00:54:14.920 --> 00:54:18.850
Monique: in a way that he was also happy.

00:54:18.850 --> 00:54:22.000
It wasn't, it, it, he was happy to do it.

00:54:22.420 --> 00:54:25.840
And that's what we recognize
what he is doing now.

00:54:26.120 --> 00:54:29.750
It doesn't, it doesn't take
that much energy of him.

00:54:29.750 --> 00:54:35.510
He likes to do it because he can, and
a couple of years ago it, he can't.

00:54:36.290 --> 00:54:37.610
Yeah, because, because he couldn't do it.

00:54:37.670 --> 00:54:39.275
No, because he, he did, he,

00:54:39.950 --> 00:54:43.670
Husband: it always looked like he was
under pressure to do, to do it something.

00:54:43.795 --> 00:54:44.540
Rupert Isaacson: Right, right.

00:54:44.570 --> 00:54:45.410
Not spontaneous.

00:54:45.415 --> 00:54:45.435
Yeah.

00:54:45.435 --> 00:54:45.995
Quite understand.

00:54:46.385 --> 00:54:46.675
Husband: Yeah.

00:54:48.080 --> 00:54:48.230
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:54:48.230 --> 00:54:48.650
Yes.

00:54:49.430 --> 00:54:50.060
Wonderful.

00:54:50.150 --> 00:54:50.240
Okay.

00:54:50.450 --> 00:54:53.150
And he's still obviously
involved in animals in nature.

00:54:53.585 --> 00:54:58.325
And then when he's at home with you,
while there's horses around, there's Yes.

00:54:59.165 --> 00:54:59.495
Yes.

00:54:59.495 --> 00:54:59.825
We have

00:54:59.875 --> 00:55:00.745
Monique: two dogs.

00:55:00.745 --> 00:55:02.035
We have two cats.

00:55:02.305 --> 00:55:02.395
Yeah.

00:55:02.425 --> 00:55:04.540
So he's always always into dogs.

00:55:04.570 --> 00:55:04.780
Yeah.

00:55:04.990 --> 00:55:06.970
Rupert Isaacson: Tell me about
his interaction with the dogs.

00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:12.360
Monique: Well, he has one particularly
that's it's, it's a Labrador

00:55:13.140 --> 00:55:14.670
and that's really his buddy.

00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:15.690
Yeah.

00:55:15.690 --> 00:55:20.650
When he's coming home he is taking
some time after the computer.

00:55:20.950 --> 00:55:25.030
Then we are going for a eat, and then
he is going to take the dog for a walk.

00:55:25.300 --> 00:55:25.570
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:55:25.630 --> 00:55:30.190
Monique: And also with the horses
when they are going somewhere,

00:55:30.220 --> 00:55:33.340
they are one, they are really
one where the darkest is Stu.

00:55:33.610 --> 00:55:37.210
And where Stu is, is the dark and
everyone in the neighborhood knows it.

00:55:37.600 --> 00:55:39.530
And yeah, he's doing very well with it.

00:55:41.335 --> 00:55:42.450
Husband: Completely on his own.

00:55:42.450 --> 00:55:46.405
On his own for about an
hour or an hour and a half.

00:55:46.525 --> 00:55:50.545
He's, he's gone with the dogs
in, in nature and then Yes.

00:55:50.545 --> 00:55:50.785
And he

00:55:50.785 --> 00:55:54.015
Monique: has he gets a GPS on it

00:55:54.630 --> 00:55:55.130
Rupert Isaacson: so we know

00:55:55.130 --> 00:55:55.370
Monique: Yeah.

00:55:55.410 --> 00:55:55.890
A tracker.

00:55:55.990 --> 00:55:58.035
So we know where he is.

00:55:58.725 --> 00:56:01.005
Rupert Isaacson: And also the dog
always knows the way home, presumably.

00:56:01.030 --> 00:56:01.250
Yes,

00:56:02.205 --> 00:56:02.655
Monique: yes.

00:56:02.655 --> 00:56:03.105
Yeah, yeah.

00:56:03.135 --> 00:56:03.890
With ice closed.

00:56:04.670 --> 00:56:04.890
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.

00:56:05.200 --> 00:56:05.490
Monique: Yeah.

00:56:06.370 --> 00:56:08.835
Rupert Isaacson: I remember when
with my son Ron, when he was first

00:56:08.835 --> 00:56:10.305
coming to visit us in Germany.

00:56:10.795 --> 00:56:13.675
He loves to be given challenges,
so I would give him challenge.

00:56:14.065 --> 00:56:14.395
Okay.

00:56:14.395 --> 00:56:16.585
I I'm gonna drop you there in the car.

00:56:17.020 --> 00:56:21.430
On the top of that mountain with the dog,
and you are gonna find your way home.

00:56:21.700 --> 00:56:25.690
You can GPS it, but the
dog is gonna say it.

00:56:25.690 --> 00:56:26.025
None of it.

00:56:27.790 --> 00:56:27.970
Yeah.

00:56:27.970 --> 00:56:29.590
You, you, you can just, yeah.

00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:30.020
Yeah.

00:56:30.020 --> 00:56:30.860
Wonderful.

00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:31.370
Yeah.

00:56:31.470 --> 00:56:32.490
And it really worked.

00:56:32.500 --> 00:56:37.990
It, it's, it's very beautiful to see how
each type of animal really does bring

00:56:37.990 --> 00:56:39.910
out a different aspect of the human.

00:56:41.560 --> 00:56:46.420
And it's, it's something which
I'm often encouraging our equine

00:56:46.420 --> 00:56:50.350
practitioners to think beyond the horse.

00:56:50.380 --> 00:56:51.970
You know, horses, they're fantastic.

00:56:52.240 --> 00:57:00.400
They do all these amazing things, but
don't limit yourself because what if this

00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:02.920
person is not so motivated by the horse?

00:57:03.050 --> 00:57:07.100
Or maybe they were motivated by the
horse, but for some reason now they

00:57:07.100 --> 00:57:09.020
lose that enthusiasm a little bit.

00:57:09.290 --> 00:57:12.770
My own son, for example, he's
gone in and out of horses.

00:57:13.220 --> 00:57:17.870
Over his life, and sometimes he's really
into the horse and sometimes, ah, it's

00:57:17.870 --> 00:57:21.110
not so much, and I must go with this.

00:57:21.405 --> 00:57:21.695
Monique: Yeah.

00:57:21.715 --> 00:57:22.135
Mm-hmm.

00:57:22.215 --> 00:57:22.580
Yeah, I need

00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:24.830
Rupert Isaacson: more than that.

00:57:25.400 --> 00:57:25.730
Monique: Yeah.

00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:29.340
Rupert Isaacson: So as you know, we
work with all kinds of animals and

00:57:29.340 --> 00:57:34.140
nature but sometimes horse people can
be a little bit autistic themselves

00:57:34.470 --> 00:57:36.630
and it's just very horse, you know.

00:57:36.940 --> 00:57:42.160
I am similar, you know, if you leave
me to myself, I'm just horse, horse,

00:57:42.160 --> 00:57:43.045
horse, horse, horse, horse, horse.

00:57:43.530 --> 00:57:46.630
But I, I realize that
there are some limitations.

00:57:47.740 --> 00:57:48.160
No thanks.

00:57:49.425 --> 00:57:54.985
if you're a horse nerd, and if you're on
this podcast, I'm guessing you are, then

00:57:54.995 --> 00:57:59.985
you've probably also always wondered a
little bit about the old master system.

00:58:00.450 --> 00:58:01.760
of dressage training.

00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:10.370
If you go and check out our Helios Harmony
program, we outline there step by step

00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:16.720
exactly how to train your horse from
the ground to become the dressage horse

00:58:16.730 --> 00:58:23.250
of your dreams in a way that absolutely
serves the physical, mental and emotional

00:58:23.300 --> 00:58:26.070
well being of the horse and the rider.

00:58:26.130 --> 00:58:26.870
Intrigued?

00:58:27.070 --> 00:58:27.930
Like to know more?

00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:31.630
Go to our website, Helios Harmony.

00:58:33.330 --> 00:58:35.020
Check out the free introduction course.

00:58:35.580 --> 00:58:36.100
Take it from there.

00:58:36.654 --> 00:58:42.059
Okay, so Stan is doing really well,
and now you are in a, in a position to

00:58:42.059 --> 00:58:46.679
give your experience to other families.

00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:49.099
Talk us through okay.

00:58:49.369 --> 00:58:54.349
Let's say I am an autism
dad and I find my way to.

00:58:54.829 --> 00:58:55.609
Your website.

00:58:56.269 --> 00:58:56.569
Monique: Yeah.

00:58:56.619 --> 00:58:57.969
Rupert Isaacson: I make contact with you.

00:58:59.649 --> 00:59:00.129
I'm new.

00:59:00.969 --> 00:59:01.449
Monique: Yeah.

00:59:01.539 --> 00:59:02.379
Rupert Isaacson: Tell me how it will go.

00:59:03.009 --> 00:59:03.429
Monique: Yeah.

00:59:04.029 --> 00:59:09.749
Well, first of all, I'm going to invite
you of course, and the first thing I, I

00:59:09.749 --> 00:59:15.934
do when I get someone here who is Alre,
where I already knew he is autistic I

00:59:15.934 --> 00:59:19.204
look at his body, what is he telling me?

00:59:20.494 --> 00:59:25.304
And that's very important because
we have talked it earlier.

00:59:25.454 --> 00:59:27.434
The body is telling me everything.

00:59:27.884 --> 00:59:33.674
And I quite often see that when I
have a session with a mom or dad

00:59:33.824 --> 00:59:39.984
or who are also autistic or the kid
they are going to look for something.

00:59:42.024 --> 00:59:45.324
Diarying the sissy to regulate themselves.

00:59:45.864 --> 00:59:51.044
So it's about a bracelet
a earing their hair.

00:59:51.294 --> 00:59:52.524
They find stuff.

00:59:52.594 --> 00:59:53.854
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, we all stem

00:59:54.874 --> 00:59:55.714
Monique: Yes, all of us

00:59:55.714 --> 00:59:57.094
Rupert Isaacson: to Yes.

00:59:57.124 --> 00:59:57.994
Regulate ourselves.

00:59:57.999 --> 00:59:58.414
Yes, yes.

00:59:58.414 --> 01:00:01.234
Monique: Especially when it's
going to be difficult, then Yeah.

01:00:01.564 --> 01:00:04.444
Then oh, oh, oh my gosh,
I have so regulate because

01:00:04.444 --> 01:00:05.704
this, this is very difficult.

01:00:05.704 --> 01:00:05.854
This.

01:00:06.454 --> 01:00:06.724
Yeah.

01:00:06.724 --> 01:00:08.734
And that's what triggers me.

01:00:10.114 --> 01:00:16.954
And when I throw it back at
them then I get the answers.

01:00:16.954 --> 01:00:17.314
Yeah.

01:00:17.314 --> 01:00:18.274
It is difficult.

01:00:18.274 --> 01:00:18.694
Yeah.

01:00:18.694 --> 01:00:20.254
Emotions are difficult for me.

01:00:20.254 --> 01:00:20.704
Yeah.

01:00:20.704 --> 01:00:22.954
This is a big part for of me.

01:00:23.074 --> 01:00:23.614
So.

01:00:24.229 --> 01:00:27.649
That's my comm communication.

01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:28.979
And are you always

01:00:28.979 --> 01:00:32.069
Rupert Isaacson: asking the
whole family to come, or as

01:00:32.069 --> 01:00:34.019
many family members as possible?

01:00:34.379 --> 01:00:37.949
Or do you start with just the
kid, or how do you, how do you go?

01:00:38.399 --> 01:00:38.909
Monique: Yeah.

01:00:38.909 --> 01:00:42.719
Just what they want, because I
always have the respect of them.

01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:46.109
What is what you need and
what is it, what you want?

01:00:46.179 --> 01:00:47.139
I want to give a lot.

01:00:48.069 --> 01:00:48.159
Mm-hmm.

01:00:48.159 --> 01:00:53.354
But it also, it I want to know what
do you want and what do you need

01:00:54.169 --> 01:00:56.739
and how does it go all the way?

01:00:57.129 --> 01:01:00.959
So, sometimes I began with the parents.

01:01:02.894 --> 01:01:07.694
They said, said also, well, first us fine.

01:01:07.994 --> 01:01:08.264
Fine.

01:01:08.264 --> 01:01:08.354
Okay.

01:01:08.354 --> 01:01:08.924
So sometimes

01:01:08.924 --> 01:01:11.444
Rupert Isaacson: you'll do your first
consultation with just the parents.

01:01:11.504 --> 01:01:12.044
Yes.

01:01:12.049 --> 01:01:13.149
And sometimes I know that's a good idea.

01:01:13.219 --> 01:01:13.509
Monique: Yeah.

01:01:13.509 --> 01:01:13.789
Yeah.

01:01:13.849 --> 01:01:16.384
And sometimes they told
me well, here we are.

01:01:17.704 --> 01:01:19.654
And then therefore they old family.

01:01:19.714 --> 01:01:20.314
Okay.

01:01:20.314 --> 01:01:21.154
Also good.

01:01:21.574 --> 01:01:25.824
So it's really yeah, I, I, I feel it.

01:01:25.874 --> 01:01:29.604
Like, what is my intuition
tells me what to do.

01:01:30.059 --> 01:01:30.349
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:01:31.129 --> 01:01:34.214
So how do your horses enter the picture?

01:01:35.444 --> 01:01:36.314
Monique: What do you mean by that?

01:01:36.644 --> 01:01:40.784
Rupert Isaacson: How do you, okay, now the
parents have come or the family has come.

01:01:40.994 --> 01:01:42.254
You're observing their bodies.

01:01:42.254 --> 01:01:46.544
You're, you are finding out what they
need to regulate themselves and so on.

01:01:47.174 --> 01:01:48.914
Now you're going to add a horse.

01:01:49.604 --> 01:01:50.174
Monique: Yes.

01:01:50.414 --> 01:01:50.774
Yes.

01:01:50.774 --> 01:01:50.784
How,

01:01:50.784 --> 01:01:51.614
Rupert Isaacson: how does this happen?

01:01:52.604 --> 01:01:53.174
Monique: Yes.

01:01:53.364 --> 01:01:55.404
I'm going to look for the horses.

01:01:55.434 --> 01:01:59.094
What he's telling me, is
he standing by the stomach?

01:01:59.094 --> 01:02:00.984
Is he breathing out?

01:02:00.984 --> 01:02:02.734
Is he walking the horse?

01:02:04.099 --> 01:02:04.694
Yes, the horse, that kind of thing.

01:02:05.114 --> 01:02:09.949
Rupert Isaacson: So is the horse coming
into a space with the person now?

01:02:10.034 --> 01:02:10.254
Yes.

01:02:10.484 --> 01:02:10.774
Okay.

01:02:10.874 --> 01:02:11.094
Yes,

01:02:12.589 --> 01:02:12.859
Monique: yes, yes.

01:02:13.069 --> 01:02:18.589
And, I also, when the knees are
there I have also a little boy who

01:02:18.594 --> 01:02:23.714
I have put on the pony because he
came from the hospital and he was

01:02:23.714 --> 01:02:26.224
sent from a specialist over there.

01:02:26.464 --> 01:02:30.154
He had some problem to go to
the bathroom just like our son.

01:02:30.904 --> 01:02:31.534
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:02:31.534 --> 01:02:34.594
Monique: And that mother calls me
and tells me that, oh, and he can't

01:02:34.594 --> 01:02:38.104
go to the, and he has medicine and
I don't want that medicine anymore.

01:02:38.104 --> 01:02:40.924
I want to go in for himself
to go to the bathroom.

01:02:40.924 --> 01:02:42.574
Can you please help me?

01:02:43.024 --> 01:02:43.774
Of course.

01:02:44.134 --> 01:02:46.354
Come over here and we gonna have a look.

01:02:46.594 --> 01:02:50.704
And that boy became two times
here and he go to the bathroom.

01:02:50.884 --> 01:02:51.034
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:02:51.034 --> 01:02:51.814
Riding on the back,

01:02:51.814 --> 01:02:54.514
Monique: riding on the deck of the
horse and he go to the bathroom.

01:02:54.514 --> 01:02:54.694
He

01:02:54.694 --> 01:02:55.779
Rupert Isaacson: took a poo on the horse.

01:02:56.284 --> 01:02:56.434
Monique: Yeah.

01:02:56.439 --> 01:02:56.699
Yeah.

01:02:57.514 --> 01:02:58.024
Wonderful.

01:02:58.714 --> 01:02:59.284
Wonderful.

01:02:59.284 --> 01:03:01.894
And that's exactly what we are doing.

01:03:01.894 --> 01:03:05.844
And that's also what you are doing
with the kids who on the horse

01:03:05.894 --> 01:03:08.114
and your story with, with Rowan.

01:03:08.424 --> 01:03:11.034
So I had to think about you
when it, when it happens.

01:03:11.034 --> 01:03:14.454
I thought, yeah, this, this kind of story.

01:03:14.914 --> 01:03:16.984
And now I have it myself, my own.

01:03:17.234 --> 01:03:20.664
So the mother is very glad
about that, but now, okay.

01:03:21.074 --> 01:03:26.204
The new school year has became and,
and become, and, and she's calling

01:03:26.204 --> 01:03:31.784
me again because the kid has a lot of
tension and new again, he doesn't go

01:03:31.784 --> 01:03:35.084
to the toilet, so we have to go again.

01:03:35.084 --> 01:03:36.374
It's, it is, yeah.

01:03:36.374 --> 01:03:39.884
I don't mind 'cause I know it's
gonna be all right and I know where

01:03:39.884 --> 01:03:42.344
it's from that get a lot of tension.

01:03:42.624 --> 01:03:47.154
So it will be, be going all
right after a few times.

01:03:47.244 --> 01:03:50.004
Rupert Isaacson: So you do
work with people riding as

01:03:50.004 --> 01:03:51.294
well as people on the ground?

01:03:51.324 --> 01:03:51.774
Yes.

01:03:51.774 --> 01:03:51.864
Yes.

01:03:51.924 --> 01:03:52.949
How do you decide

01:03:55.134 --> 01:03:56.004
how to proceed?

01:03:57.199 --> 01:04:02.509
Monique: What the question of the parents
is I only put children on the podium.

01:04:02.514 --> 01:04:02.754
Mm-hmm.

01:04:02.974 --> 01:04:03.889
Rupert Isaacson: Not parents.

01:04:04.099 --> 01:04:04.399
Okay.

01:04:04.849 --> 01:04:08.144
Monique: No, the parents are
always standing besides the horse.

01:04:08.144 --> 01:04:08.464
Mm-hmm.

01:04:08.924 --> 01:04:09.144
Yes.

01:04:09.564 --> 01:04:14.609
So the children, I put them on the
horses and I also learned them.

01:04:14.699 --> 01:04:17.069
Other things, also school things.

01:04:17.609 --> 01:04:22.939
We have special therapy we call
it different learning by horses.

01:04:22.939 --> 01:04:23.659
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:04:23.719 --> 01:04:23.839
And

01:04:23.839 --> 01:04:24.769
Monique: that's for child.

01:04:25.009 --> 01:04:27.564
The who, who doesn't come

01:04:27.904 --> 01:04:30.539
Husband: come along with, come
along with, yeah, with, with

01:04:30.574 --> 01:04:32.254
words and, and mathematics.

01:04:32.284 --> 01:04:32.584
Yeah.

01:04:32.584 --> 01:04:33.274
Something like that.

01:04:34.774 --> 01:04:37.804
Rupert Isaacson: And is that something
you've developed yourself or is that No.

01:04:38.874 --> 01:04:39.094
No.

01:04:39.094 --> 01:04:41.569
So that program that you use,
that's an outside program?

01:04:41.634 --> 01:04:42.319
Monique: Yes, yes.

01:04:42.319 --> 01:04:43.189
I've learned that

01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:44.529
Rupert Isaacson: learning
with horses, it's called,

01:04:44.989 --> 01:04:45.859
Monique: Yes, it's, yes.

01:04:45.864 --> 01:04:48.169
Rupert Isaacson: And is that a,
a, a Dutch thing or is that a yes?

01:04:48.409 --> 01:04:48.589
Yeah.

01:04:48.829 --> 01:04:49.189
Okay.

01:04:49.489 --> 01:04:50.659
So tell me how that works.

01:04:51.349 --> 01:04:52.129
Monique: Yes, it is.

01:04:52.179 --> 01:04:56.479
Well, finally, you are going back
in time how we learned on school.

01:04:57.229 --> 01:04:57.319
Mm-hmm.

01:04:57.325 --> 01:05:01.909
That's the part they, they don't give
it on that way anymore on school.

01:05:02.029 --> 01:05:03.049
So, what

01:05:03.049 --> 01:05:03.409
Rupert Isaacson: do you mean?

01:05:04.319 --> 01:05:05.314
Monique: What do I mean?

01:05:05.414 --> 01:05:06.524
Rupert Isaacson: Learning
through repetition.

01:05:06.524 --> 01:05:08.774
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

01:05:09.344 --> 01:05:10.154
Monique: yeah, yeah.

01:05:10.544 --> 01:05:10.874
Yeah.

01:05:10.874 --> 01:05:15.614
And it is, it is the same as
the mother with, with her boy

01:05:15.774 --> 01:05:17.304
who doesn't go to the toilet.

01:05:17.454 --> 01:05:17.544
Mm-hmm.

01:05:17.544 --> 01:05:20.664
Now the horse is the
biggest friend of that child

01:05:20.839 --> 01:05:21.059
Rupert Isaacson: who,

01:05:21.159 --> 01:05:26.284
Monique: who, who counts read or, or
writes or, or something like that.

01:05:26.284 --> 01:05:29.584
And when the horse is
with him, it goes on.

01:05:29.704 --> 01:05:35.014
It goes because the, the tension
is gone and there's another, so

01:05:35.109 --> 01:05:37.774
Rupert Isaacson: when, when you
are working with the academic stuff

01:05:37.774 --> 01:05:41.614
on the horses, the learning with
horses, are you using the horse's

01:05:41.614 --> 01:05:47.314
movement as a rhythm to then create
repe repetition of saying things and

01:05:47.824 --> 01:05:49.564
giving information into the brain?

01:05:49.564 --> 01:05:49.744
Yes.

01:05:49.744 --> 01:05:50.644
Sometimes.

01:05:50.734 --> 01:05:51.934
Is it working like that?

01:05:52.204 --> 01:05:53.164
Monique: Sometimes.

01:05:53.284 --> 01:05:57.934
And we also do some, some
how do you call it, to bags?

01:05:57.989 --> 01:05:58.279
Yeah.

01:05:58.279 --> 01:05:58.439
Bags.

01:05:58.629 --> 01:05:59.684
Bags right.

01:05:59.894 --> 01:06:01.374
And, and left mm-hmm.

01:06:01.474 --> 01:06:03.454
On the child when they are on the horses.

01:06:04.034 --> 01:06:04.454
Mm-hmm.

01:06:04.534 --> 01:06:10.729
And then we tell them to take something
out of the left, back with the right hand.

01:06:11.284 --> 01:06:11.574
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:06:12.889 --> 01:06:13.339
Okay.

01:06:13.339 --> 01:06:16.189
Also crossing the midline,
you want them to Yes.

01:06:16.194 --> 01:06:16.394
Yes.

01:06:16.574 --> 01:06:19.609
That's also for the BDNF
in the brain, right?

01:06:19.614 --> 01:06:19.674
Monique: Exactly.

01:06:19.969 --> 01:06:20.869
Exactly.

01:06:21.619 --> 01:06:24.199
Rupert Isaacson: But when you are
dealing with an academic concept, like

01:06:24.199 --> 01:06:28.729
say numbers and you are doing this
on the horse, tell me how it works.

01:06:28.729 --> 01:06:29.779
How, how are you doing it?

01:06:30.634 --> 01:06:33.099
Monique: We have a couple
of things, how we do it.

01:06:33.619 --> 01:06:36.969
Sometimes first we do it when
they take the horse beside them.

01:06:37.299 --> 01:06:39.879
So they walk with the horse.

01:06:40.149 --> 01:06:40.269
Yeah.

01:06:40.269 --> 01:06:46.024
And then just simply from one till
10 or we put how do you call it?

01:06:46.674 --> 01:06:50.269
Yeah, many of further mm-hmm.

01:06:51.924 --> 01:06:52.779
But, but yeah.

01:06:52.829 --> 01:06:53.669
Let's keep it easy.

01:06:54.839 --> 01:06:56.189
My English is not that good.

01:06:56.499 --> 01:06:57.549
How can I explain it?

01:06:57.554 --> 01:06:57.774
The,

01:06:57.779 --> 01:07:02.409
Husband: the practice from the
numbers from 0, 10, 20, 30, 45.

01:07:02.739 --> 01:07:03.279
Rupert Isaacson: Counting.

01:07:03.459 --> 01:07:03.669
Yes.

01:07:03.674 --> 01:07:03.734
Yes.

01:07:03.969 --> 01:07:04.239
Counting.

01:07:04.299 --> 01:07:04.749
Yeah.

01:07:04.839 --> 01:07:05.199
Okay.

01:07:05.319 --> 01:07:06.789
So you could count steps.

01:07:06.789 --> 01:07:08.259
You could count, yes.

01:07:08.554 --> 01:07:08.774
Yes.

01:07:08.889 --> 01:07:09.639
But okay.

01:07:09.639 --> 01:07:11.679
But let's say you want to do arithmetic.

01:07:11.679 --> 01:07:14.169
Let's say you want to do division.

01:07:14.889 --> 01:07:15.759
How would you do that?

01:07:17.179 --> 01:07:18.139
Monique: What do you mean exactly?

01:07:18.799 --> 01:07:23.129
Rupert Isaacson: Well, for example, when
I was teaching my son numbers and letters

01:07:23.489 --> 01:07:29.159
on the horse, initially what happened was
I would, I followed his interests, right?

01:07:29.159 --> 01:07:31.829
So he loved the Lion King.

01:07:31.859 --> 01:07:31.949
Mm-hmm.

01:07:32.219 --> 01:07:35.609
So I would be singing the Lion King songs.

01:07:35.609 --> 01:07:37.169
Don't worry, I'm not going to sing now.

01:07:37.589 --> 01:07:42.119
And then I would take the
ca a character like say.

01:07:43.044 --> 01:07:50.934
Zu and I would put the letters
of Zazu on these different trees.

01:07:51.114 --> 01:07:56.724
Yes, we would ride, but you
know, at least 30 seconds of

01:07:56.724 --> 01:07:58.554
riding in between each letter.

01:07:59.034 --> 01:07:59.124
Mm-hmm.

01:07:59.314 --> 01:08:00.964
So the trees are at a distance.

01:08:01.174 --> 01:08:04.024
We can also learn what
is this tree, et cetera.

01:08:04.444 --> 01:08:09.904
And then at the end there'd be a
little toy of azi and he learned

01:08:09.904 --> 01:08:11.224
to put the letters together.

01:08:11.584 --> 01:08:15.154
And then from there, very
quickly it went out to reading.

01:08:15.604 --> 01:08:20.954
Similarly with numbers I would
start with counting, counting

01:08:20.954 --> 01:08:22.574
the steps of the horse and so on.

01:08:22.964 --> 01:08:26.024
And then counting things from the horse.

01:08:26.024 --> 01:08:26.084
Yeah.

01:08:26.114 --> 01:08:32.894
But then I could get friends and
family members to stand together.

01:08:33.194 --> 01:08:36.344
One of them wears a silly
hat that one has to go.

01:08:36.584 --> 01:08:40.934
So push that one away, making farts.

01:08:41.699 --> 01:08:42.329
Because it's funny.

01:08:42.839 --> 01:08:46.799
And then we see how many are left
and then this person starts to

01:08:46.799 --> 01:08:48.989
cry because they're by themselves.

01:08:48.989 --> 01:08:50.339
So we have to put them back.

01:08:50.729 --> 01:08:52.349
And how many have we got?

01:08:52.709 --> 01:08:55.709
And then say that's
adding and subtracting.

01:08:55.949 --> 01:09:01.949
But then with division let's say I
had six people in a line, I would say

01:09:01.949 --> 01:09:03.959
to Rowan, do you think they can run?

01:09:03.989 --> 01:09:05.069
Let's see if they can run.

01:09:05.459 --> 01:09:06.899
And then we'd go behind.

01:09:07.679 --> 01:09:10.079
And of course I've told the
people what we're gonna do,

01:09:10.559 --> 01:09:12.869
and then we come really fast.

01:09:13.799 --> 01:09:14.549
In the Gallup?

01:09:15.179 --> 01:09:15.509
Yeah.

01:09:15.509 --> 01:09:16.649
In the middle going.

01:09:16.709 --> 01:09:21.209
And the two groups of three go
and they run away to each side.

01:09:21.539 --> 01:09:24.869
And then we have, oh, look, we've
got two groups of three, so you know,

01:09:24.869 --> 01:09:26.759
six divided by two is three, blah.

01:09:26.819 --> 01:09:28.169
And then we round them up.

01:09:29.069 --> 01:09:33.839
With farts, multiply six times two,
like a cowboy, a farting cowboy,

01:09:34.109 --> 01:09:37.889
you know, and suddenly we have
multiplication and we found that

01:09:37.889 --> 01:09:39.569
this kind of thing worked very well.

01:09:39.749 --> 01:09:44.039
Are you doing something similar, or is
it, does it happen differently with you?

01:09:44.639 --> 01:09:47.249
Monique: Yeah, it, it is,
it is only with a child.

01:09:47.789 --> 01:09:47.969
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:09:48.209 --> 01:09:50.134
Monique: So there are
no other people, people

01:09:50.279 --> 01:09:50.579
Rupert Isaacson: around,

01:09:50.879 --> 01:09:51.449
Monique: around?

01:09:51.449 --> 01:09:51.869
No.

01:09:51.874 --> 01:09:52.054
Okay.

01:09:52.474 --> 01:09:52.694
No.

01:09:54.239 --> 01:09:57.299
Rupert Isaacson: And how, let's,
so let's say it was something

01:09:57.299 --> 01:10:00.059
like the using of the numbers.

01:10:00.599 --> 01:10:00.989
Monique: Mm-hmm.

01:10:01.349 --> 01:10:03.329
Rupert Isaacson: Can
you give us an example?

01:10:03.749 --> 01:10:04.259
Monique: Yeah.

01:10:05.429 --> 01:10:09.079
I can sometimes I put a clock, um mm-hmm.

01:10:09.319 --> 01:10:09.804
On the ground.

01:10:10.919 --> 01:10:16.169
And I will ask them how, how late it
is when they are already doing that.

01:10:16.169 --> 01:10:23.349
So, so it's, it's, eh, also what you also
told put numbers around in the certain

01:10:23.409 --> 01:10:25.869
world or I let them search for it.

01:10:27.339 --> 01:10:28.929
It's also something Yes.

01:10:28.959 --> 01:10:30.909
Sometimes I let 'em search for it.

01:10:31.399 --> 01:10:36.919
And I put a number on and I thought,
well go for, look for the same numbers,

01:10:37.009 --> 01:10:40.249
and then they have to pronounce it also.

01:10:40.249 --> 01:10:40.579
Mm-hmm.

01:10:40.819 --> 01:10:42.109
What kind of number do you have?

01:10:42.509 --> 01:10:47.279
Sometimes I put also the words under
the number so they have it both.

01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:49.889
So they have, and the
number and the words.

01:10:50.579 --> 01:10:55.359
So, for example two, then they
also have, have the word two.

01:10:55.364 --> 01:10:55.494
Mm-hmm.

01:10:55.574 --> 01:10:55.894
Mm-hmm.

01:10:55.979 --> 01:10:58.369
Under the number.

01:10:58.849 --> 01:11:00.699
So there are a couple of ways.

01:11:01.539 --> 01:11:03.364
I can yeah, teach them.

01:11:04.009 --> 01:11:06.829
Rupert Isaacson: And is this generally
with younger kids or is it all ages?

01:11:07.319 --> 01:11:10.319
Monique: Most of our till 12 years.

01:11:11.309 --> 01:11:11.849
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:11:12.389 --> 01:11:12.719
Yes.

01:11:12.719 --> 01:11:19.919
And what is, would you say the most
complex mathematical thing that you would

01:11:20.849 --> 01:11:21.029
Monique: do?

01:11:21.224 --> 01:11:29.039
Mm, that's a difficult question because
every child has his own difficulty,

01:11:29.039 --> 01:11:32.449
so, yeah, that's a difficult question.

01:11:32.569 --> 01:11:39.799
I cannot really say this, this thing
is really on top of it or something.

01:11:39.799 --> 01:11:42.259
No, no.

01:11:42.259 --> 01:11:42.319
I'm

01:11:42.319 --> 01:11:46.369
Rupert Isaacson: just thinking, for
example, when, when I was finishing

01:11:46.939 --> 01:11:52.819
the extent of my abilities with maths,
which are not very big, the process

01:11:52.819 --> 01:11:57.559
that I just described with Rowan
was about as much as I could really

01:11:57.559 --> 01:11:59.299
do because I'm not a mathematician.

01:11:59.629 --> 01:12:04.669
So I then made contact with
a really good mathematician.

01:12:04.849 --> 01:12:04.999
Mm-hmm.

01:12:05.239 --> 01:12:07.699
Who understood what we
were doing with movement.

01:12:08.089 --> 01:12:08.539
Yeah.

01:12:08.599 --> 01:12:11.569
With the horse and with not,
and he's this guy called Dr.

01:12:11.569 --> 01:12:12.679
Alfred Siegler.

01:12:12.859 --> 01:12:18.709
He's German, and he was a physics
professor at the University of Abrook and

01:12:18.889 --> 01:12:21.499
an old family friend of my wife's family.

01:12:21.619 --> 01:12:28.639
He understood the need for movement,
so we asked him to come up with.

01:12:29.194 --> 01:12:33.334
Modules, teaching modules that
we could do for children who were

01:12:33.334 --> 01:12:35.734
needing to go to more advanced levels.

01:12:36.064 --> 01:12:36.154
Mm-hmm.

01:12:36.204 --> 01:12:40.504
And we found it was extraordinary
that we could teach things like how

01:12:40.504 --> 01:12:46.744
to calculate the area of a circle
or how to calculate pie or how to

01:12:46.984 --> 01:12:52.294
do complex geometry using the horse,
using the forest, using the dog.

01:12:52.654 --> 01:12:52.744
Yeah.

01:12:53.084 --> 01:12:57.824
And on our website, we have all of
these modules now for people to use.

01:12:57.824 --> 01:12:57.914
Mm-hmm.

01:12:58.274 --> 01:13:03.284
Because we became frustrated
with our own limitations.

01:13:03.594 --> 01:13:03.684
Yeah.

01:13:03.904 --> 01:13:08.809
So we began to reach out to other
people for maths and science.

01:13:09.179 --> 01:13:11.309
And we found that through
these collaborations we

01:13:11.309 --> 01:13:12.299
could do things like this.

01:13:12.599 --> 01:13:17.219
Are you, are some of the kids
coming to you needing to learn

01:13:17.219 --> 01:13:19.349
some of the higher skills?

01:13:19.709 --> 01:13:21.029
And if so.

01:13:22.424 --> 01:13:24.254
Are there, are you finding
ways to address that?

01:13:24.569 --> 01:13:24.789
No.

01:13:24.794 --> 01:13:24.944
No.

01:13:24.944 --> 01:13:27.589
Or you just doing fairly
much at the basics?

01:13:28.154 --> 01:13:28.754
Monique: Yeah.

01:13:28.814 --> 01:13:29.234
Yeah.

01:13:29.239 --> 01:13:29.349
Okay.

01:13:29.474 --> 01:13:29.744
Yeah.

01:13:29.744 --> 01:13:31.154
Most of all the basics.

01:13:31.154 --> 01:13:35.594
And it is most of all
that school is too quick.

01:13:35.594 --> 01:13:37.904
They, they, they are pushing the it Yeah,

01:13:38.984 --> 01:13:39.074
Rupert Isaacson: sure.

01:13:39.164 --> 01:13:42.494
Monique: They, they, they want to
learn it very quick, but they don't

01:13:42.494 --> 01:13:44.174
understand what they are learning.

01:13:44.174 --> 01:13:46.094
So that's the thing.

01:13:46.424 --> 01:13:47.744
Rupert Isaacson: Yes, yes.

01:13:48.104 --> 01:13:48.524
I agree.

01:13:48.524 --> 01:13:51.554
It's, it's so difficult in school.

01:13:51.854 --> 01:13:51.914
Yeah.

01:13:52.364 --> 01:13:54.494
'cause the, the sensory
environment is wrong.

01:13:55.184 --> 01:13:56.474
The kid can't move.

01:13:57.404 --> 01:13:57.674
Yeah.

01:13:57.674 --> 01:13:59.114
The school smells bad.

01:13:59.714 --> 01:13:59.804
Yes.

01:13:59.804 --> 01:14:01.094
They're afraid of the other kids.

01:14:01.094 --> 01:14:02.264
They're afraid of the teacher.

01:14:02.264 --> 01:14:02.324
Yeah.

01:14:02.864 --> 01:14:06.434
Everything is going to push
the learning backwards.

01:14:06.674 --> 01:14:06.824
Yeah.

01:14:06.829 --> 01:14:07.099
Yeah.

01:14:07.334 --> 01:14:12.334
And they come out to a place like
yours, suddenly they're with somebody.

01:14:12.334 --> 01:14:12.874
Nice.

01:14:14.134 --> 01:14:15.784
And there were two nice people.

01:14:15.784 --> 01:14:16.924
One of them has four legs.

01:14:16.924 --> 01:14:18.034
One of them has two legs.

01:14:18.034 --> 01:14:18.874
Has two legs.

01:14:19.684 --> 01:14:19.984
Yeah.

01:14:19.990 --> 01:14:22.474
They're in a nice environment, as you say.

01:14:22.474 --> 01:14:25.744
There's time they can
relax and they're moving.

01:14:26.344 --> 01:14:26.974
Yes.

01:14:26.974 --> 01:14:28.834
Again, neuroplasticity.

01:14:29.334 --> 01:14:34.074
Do you then get reports back from
the school, from the teachers

01:14:34.074 --> 01:14:36.684
saying, oh, or from the parent?

01:14:37.464 --> 01:14:38.664
This child, yeah.

01:14:38.664 --> 01:14:39.564
Made a jump.

01:14:40.164 --> 01:14:40.584
Monique: Yeah.

01:14:40.584 --> 01:14:44.924
But I also recognize that
school is a little bit.

01:14:44.999 --> 01:14:45.059
Yeah,

01:14:46.084 --> 01:14:46.244
Rupert Isaacson: sure.

01:14:46.244 --> 01:14:46.254
But

01:14:46.379 --> 01:14:49.349
Monique: I'm a teacher,
so how is this possible?

01:14:49.769 --> 01:14:49.979
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,

01:14:49.979 --> 01:14:50.039
Monique: yeah.

01:14:50.099 --> 01:14:51.764
No, it, no.

01:14:51.764 --> 01:14:51.774
Yes.

01:14:52.284 --> 01:14:52.404
It's,

01:14:52.404 --> 01:14:54.284
Rupert Isaacson: they, they, they
hate admitting it, don't they?

01:14:54.284 --> 01:14:54.964
It's like, yeah.

01:14:55.144 --> 01:14:57.539
So it couldn't possibly be
the lady with the horse.

01:14:57.544 --> 01:14:57.804
Yeah.

01:14:58.409 --> 01:14:59.369
Monique: Yeah.

01:14:59.424 --> 01:15:01.379
But, but you are only a coach.

01:15:01.379 --> 01:15:03.029
You are not a teacher.

01:15:03.029 --> 01:15:04.559
How so?

01:15:04.559 --> 01:15:05.899
That's a little bit yeah.

01:15:05.899 --> 01:15:07.339
Sometimes fights.

01:15:07.909 --> 01:15:07.969
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:15:07.974 --> 01:15:08.194
Fiction.

01:15:08.629 --> 01:15:09.919
Monique: Fiction, yeah.

01:15:09.949 --> 01:15:13.849
Fiction between the
teacher and me as a coach.

01:15:13.999 --> 01:15:16.284
And, and how, how is it possible?

01:15:16.544 --> 01:15:17.504
Parents are happy.

01:15:18.254 --> 01:15:20.864
They see a kid with a smile and learning,

01:15:21.794 --> 01:15:23.954
Rupert Isaacson: I tell
you, it really does help.

01:15:24.044 --> 01:15:27.224
When we, we, when we do our trainings
for horse boy movement method,

01:15:27.494 --> 01:15:32.414
one of the things that we, we
teach people is the neuroscience.

01:15:33.074 --> 01:15:33.314
Yeah.

01:15:33.374 --> 01:15:39.794
And when you, you understand you why
the brain is responding in this way.

01:15:40.814 --> 01:15:45.974
And you can say to that teacher, well,
it's because blah, blah, blah, and blah.

01:15:46.004 --> 01:15:49.244
First you create oxytocin,
then that gets rid of cortisol.

01:15:49.364 --> 01:15:51.194
Then this creates BDNF.

01:15:51.434 --> 01:15:56.264
BDNF does this in the brain and then
in the BDNF you get these other cells

01:15:56.264 --> 01:15:59.244
in the cerebellum that govern Yeah.

01:15:59.784 --> 01:16:02.034
Social skills and most
skills, and so on and so on.

01:16:02.034 --> 01:16:04.644
And this way we can feed in
the information like this.

01:16:04.854 --> 01:16:05.844
That's why it works.

01:16:05.904 --> 01:16:10.614
And here are 10 university
studies that prove it.

01:16:10.944 --> 01:16:11.454
Yeah.

01:16:11.469 --> 01:16:11.759
Yeah.

01:16:11.844 --> 01:16:18.534
What what really helped us last year
to 20 40,024 was a PhD was published

01:16:18.669 --> 01:16:22.824
into one of our programs, which
is called Movement Method, which

01:16:22.824 --> 01:16:24.354
is the one we do without horses.

01:16:25.254 --> 01:16:26.364
That's now in schools.

01:16:26.964 --> 01:16:29.784
And but it's based on everything
that we do with horses.

01:16:29.784 --> 01:16:33.654
It's just we realized that people
needed, you know, something

01:16:33.654 --> 01:16:35.214
to do, you know, at home.

01:16:35.544 --> 01:16:38.964
And we never thought that it would
end up in schools, but it did.

01:16:39.274 --> 01:16:44.794
And then a PhD was done on Movement
Method in schools in Germany.

01:16:45.094 --> 01:16:49.904
What were called UNK schools was
burning Point Schools where they had

01:16:50.114 --> 01:16:52.784
an overwhelming number of of refugees.

01:16:53.204 --> 01:16:56.414
And there were Ukrainian children
with Russian children fighting.

01:16:56.654 --> 01:17:00.374
There were Syrian children fighting
with Iraqi children and so on.

01:17:00.404 --> 01:17:07.604
And Movement method came in and
didn't just create better academic

01:17:07.784 --> 01:17:10.754
and better behavior outcomes.

01:17:10.964 --> 01:17:13.634
But also, this was
interesting, the teachers.

01:17:14.039 --> 01:17:15.899
Wanted to stay in the job.

01:17:16.079 --> 01:17:20.339
There was better teacher satisfaction
and fewer teachers leaving the job

01:17:20.489 --> 01:17:22.349
because we did the study over some years.

01:17:22.709 --> 01:17:22.979
Yeah.

01:17:23.029 --> 01:17:27.739
It's really handy when you can point
to these things with schools and

01:17:27.739 --> 01:17:31.549
teachers and say, well look, why are
these schools in Germany doing it?

01:17:31.549 --> 01:17:34.219
Then, you know, why are these
schools in the USA doing it?

01:17:34.399 --> 01:17:39.619
Why in Ireland does the government
now sponsor horse boy movement

01:17:39.619 --> 01:17:42.439
method programs again since 2024?

01:17:42.589 --> 01:17:43.699
Well, 'cause it works.

01:17:43.789 --> 01:17:44.719
Why does it work?

01:17:45.019 --> 01:17:46.279
Okay, blah, blah, blah.

01:17:46.399 --> 01:17:51.679
So maybe when we're done with this
core, I can connect you with some people

01:17:51.679 --> 01:17:57.039
in the Netherlands who are working in
this way and have access to that data.

01:17:57.909 --> 01:17:57.999
Yes.

01:17:58.479 --> 01:18:02.289
And then when you approach a school
or you're talking with a school, it's

01:18:02.289 --> 01:18:06.399
not just you, Monique Timmermans,
you know the lady with the horses?

01:18:07.149 --> 01:18:07.569
No, no.

01:18:07.569 --> 01:18:11.749
We're attached to this
large scientific community.

01:18:12.979 --> 01:18:15.439
Admittedly, we didn't
start as scientist it.

01:18:16.969 --> 01:18:23.899
And therefore, if you don't
believe me, then show me your

01:18:23.989 --> 01:18:26.029
doctorate in neuroscience, please.

01:18:27.169 --> 01:18:28.519
Where did you get your doctorate?

01:18:28.939 --> 01:18:29.539
Yeah.

01:18:29.539 --> 01:18:31.279
And then of course I say,
well, I haven't got one.

01:18:31.279 --> 01:18:32.719
And you say, well, then
why are we arguing?

01:18:32.779 --> 01:18:33.199
You know?

01:18:33.664 --> 01:18:33.954
Yeah.

01:18:35.479 --> 01:18:37.849
And it, I, I think I, I, I'm optimistic.

01:18:37.849 --> 01:18:42.439
I have a feeling that there's a shift
coming in education because most schools

01:18:42.439 --> 01:18:45.049
know that essentially they're failing.

01:18:45.469 --> 01:18:51.199
And I think many parents are voting
with their feet and removing their

01:18:51.199 --> 01:18:52.609
children from the school system.

01:18:52.904 --> 01:18:53.194
Yeah.

01:18:53.199 --> 01:18:53.419
Yeah.

01:18:53.509 --> 01:18:54.919
More than ever, you know?

01:18:55.039 --> 01:18:55.369
Yeah.

01:18:55.819 --> 01:18:59.809
And I, I, so one can go
from, from this and then.

01:19:00.619 --> 01:19:06.499
I, I would bet that two years from this
conversation, those same schools will

01:19:06.499 --> 01:19:13.039
be using you as an outside classroom,
which is what often happens to a lot of

01:19:13.039 --> 01:19:14.839
the people that we do trainings with.

01:19:14.899 --> 01:19:15.319
Yeah, yeah.

01:19:15.799 --> 01:19:16.309
Yeah.

01:19:16.489 --> 01:19:19.809
And suddenly they're saying, oh, Monique,
could you take these five children?

01:19:19.814 --> 01:19:21.274
Yeah, yeah, of course.

01:19:22.824 --> 01:19:23.114
Monique: Yeah,

01:19:23.384 --> 01:19:23.859
Rupert Isaacson: yeah, yeah.

01:19:24.824 --> 01:19:25.114
Monique: Nice.

01:19:26.019 --> 01:19:26.289
Okay,

01:19:26.799 --> 01:19:28.899
Rupert Isaacson: so where do
you, where's it going for you?

01:19:28.899 --> 01:19:30.669
How do you want to develop your program?

01:19:30.669 --> 01:19:31.274
Where do you see it?

01:19:32.274 --> 01:19:32.514
You know.

01:19:32.514 --> 01:19:37.044
And are, are you, are you attached to
any larger groups within the Netherlands?

01:19:37.044 --> 01:19:39.354
Are you very much a one man show?

01:19:39.894 --> 01:19:43.824
You know, what's your desire
for the future as an autism man?

01:19:44.424 --> 01:19:44.604
Yeah.

01:19:45.984 --> 01:19:46.429
Where are we going?

01:19:46.919 --> 01:19:47.669
Monique: Where are we going?

01:19:47.829 --> 01:19:48.229
I don't know.

01:19:48.869 --> 01:19:55.064
I don't know where we going, but I would
like to help other people, other families.

01:19:55.114 --> 01:20:00.434
I think I can give them
a lot of experience and I

01:20:00.434 --> 01:20:03.144
want to have a holistic way.

01:20:03.149 --> 01:20:03.259
Hmm.

01:20:03.699 --> 01:20:08.444
I like that because there are a lot of
things in a family that are important.

01:20:09.779 --> 01:20:12.459
And yeah, learning by the job.

01:20:12.509 --> 01:20:17.849
I, I don't know where, where I'm going
to I'll take it from the moment and yeah.

01:20:17.849 --> 01:20:21.429
Rupert Isaacson: Well, listening to you
in this conversation, what I hear from

01:20:21.429 --> 01:20:24.219
both of you very much is the word family.

01:20:24.219 --> 01:20:25.209
Family, family.

01:20:25.239 --> 01:20:28.569
Like, so you have had this experience
because you have three children.

01:20:28.899 --> 01:20:29.349
Monique: Yeah.

01:20:29.409 --> 01:20:29.739
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

01:20:30.139 --> 01:20:34.399
We have not had the time in this
conversation to talk much about the

01:20:34.399 --> 01:20:36.259
experience of your other two children.

01:20:36.919 --> 01:20:44.389
However, I'm sure that you have had, and
you still have to live a life in which

01:20:46.399 --> 01:20:50.449
making sure you meet the
needs of the other two kids

01:20:51.979 --> 01:20:53.539
presents constant challenges.

01:20:54.919 --> 01:20:56.779
And these challenges change, right?

01:20:56.779 --> 01:20:56.839
Yeah.

01:20:57.019 --> 01:20:59.989
From, you know, year to
year, month to month.

01:21:00.809 --> 01:21:02.489
And then there's also
your marriage, right?

01:21:02.489 --> 01:21:02.549
Yeah.

01:21:02.729 --> 01:21:03.659
So you are lucky.

01:21:03.899 --> 01:21:07.439
You guys have stayed, you know, strong.

01:21:07.439 --> 01:21:08.429
You've stayed together.

01:21:09.089 --> 01:21:13.139
You know, and I know this is not
the experience of the majority

01:21:13.649 --> 01:21:15.899
of special needs families.

01:21:15.899 --> 01:21:18.179
It's about 80% divorce.

01:21:18.179 --> 01:21:22.949
Now it's 50% anyway, divorce
rate, but 80%, that's high.

01:21:23.849 --> 01:21:28.779
You must have had challenges, obviously,
like anyone, any marriage staying

01:21:28.779 --> 01:21:31.029
together through the difficult times.

01:21:31.719 --> 01:21:34.959
What would you say is both of you?

01:21:34.959 --> 01:21:36.489
Let, let's, let's hear
from you a little bit.

01:21:36.649 --> 01:21:37.009
So

01:21:39.199 --> 01:21:44.809
as an autism dad in this situation
also, you've got it on your shoulders.

01:21:44.809 --> 01:21:47.149
You've got say, shit, I've
gotta keep earning the money.

01:21:47.149 --> 01:21:50.389
I've got to, but I, at the same
time, I can't separate myself.

01:21:50.779 --> 01:21:53.899
Too much from the family and
just say, I'm earning the money.

01:21:53.959 --> 01:21:55.249
You, Monique, go there.

01:21:55.249 --> 01:21:56.239
Sort out the kids.

01:21:56.389 --> 01:21:57.589
We know this doesn't work.

01:21:57.919 --> 01:21:58.429
You know?

01:21:59.719 --> 01:22:04.399
What were the biggest challenges for
you as a dad and how did, how has

01:22:04.399 --> 01:22:08.959
Monique's work helped shape you as a dad?

01:22:09.529 --> 01:22:12.739
Or has, how has you as a dad
helped shape, money shape?

01:22:14.149 --> 01:22:14.389
Wow.

01:22:14.389 --> 01:22:15.139
That's difficult to say.

01:22:15.589 --> 01:22:17.329
Husband: Yeah, of course it is both ways.

01:22:17.629 --> 01:22:17.719
Mm-hmm.

01:22:17.959 --> 01:22:23.319
The most important thing we've
learned together is that you give

01:22:24.099 --> 01:22:30.849
each one the time and the space
to accept the situation we are in.

01:22:31.209 --> 01:22:31.749
Okay.

01:22:32.139 --> 01:22:32.529
Yeah.

01:22:32.799 --> 01:22:37.599
Especially with well, you have,
you have a special child with

01:22:37.689 --> 01:22:38.109
Monique: special

01:22:38.979 --> 01:22:40.329
Husband: care, special
care, special attention.

01:22:40.569 --> 01:22:41.109
Yeah.

01:22:41.589 --> 01:22:45.519
But your other two kids are
also special in another way.

01:22:45.714 --> 01:22:49.734
So they need the same attention.

01:22:49.854 --> 01:22:50.214
Yeah.

01:22:50.214 --> 01:22:57.024
You, that's why I we earlier told that
we are very thankful that we learned in

01:22:57.074 --> 01:23:04.269
at the dolphin therapy to, to well, to
park some for a moment because we were,

01:23:04.299 --> 01:23:08.799
we are busy at that moment with the
other two or one or the other two kids.

01:23:09.669 --> 01:23:10.179
Yeah.

01:23:10.269 --> 01:23:13.379
But the most important thing is I'm a man.

01:23:13.469 --> 01:23:18.669
I look differently at some things
especially about emotions or something

01:23:18.669 --> 01:23:22.089
like that to, to certain situations.

01:23:22.479 --> 01:23:23.169
Yeah.

01:23:23.529 --> 01:23:27.129
About sound, about,
no, a number of things.

01:23:27.519 --> 01:23:35.059
But Monique respects my point of
view at those emotions and otherwise.

01:23:35.419 --> 01:23:42.859
I respect Monique with her emotions and,
and some, some, at some points she, she

01:23:42.859 --> 01:23:47.929
needs more time and in other occasions
I need more time to accept things.

01:23:48.409 --> 01:23:54.419
It's also very important that you, that
you have things that are only for you.

01:23:54.839 --> 01:23:55.199
Yeah.

01:23:55.199 --> 01:23:59.159
I, I like to run and, and, and,
and to go on a bicycle for a few

01:23:59.159 --> 01:24:01.019
hours or, or something like that.

01:24:01.469 --> 01:24:01.709
Yeah.

01:24:01.709 --> 01:24:03.479
Sport is very important for me.

01:24:03.689 --> 01:24:08.729
So she gave me the opportunity
to, to, to, to do my sports.

01:24:09.269 --> 01:24:09.599
Yeah.

01:24:09.659 --> 01:24:12.239
The other thing is Nick is
not, she already told Yeah.

01:24:12.599 --> 01:24:13.919
Horses are everything.

01:24:14.459 --> 01:24:14.879
Yeah.

01:24:15.089 --> 01:24:18.629
So she needs her space and
her time with the horses.

01:24:18.779 --> 01:24:19.169
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:24:19.769 --> 01:24:24.139
Husband: So you, that's, that's that's the
balance you are looking for constantly.

01:24:24.439 --> 01:24:24.739
Yes.

01:24:24.814 --> 01:24:25.034
Yes.

01:24:25.249 --> 01:24:30.979
And, and after a, after a while,
you, you, you don't have to think

01:24:30.979 --> 01:24:33.709
anymore how to, to get that balance.

01:24:34.159 --> 01:24:35.989
You recognize when you, oh, okay.

01:24:35.989 --> 01:24:37.519
Now we're a little off balance.

01:24:37.579 --> 01:24:41.359
What do we need to, to, to balance again,

01:24:41.364 --> 01:24:41.564
Rupert Isaacson: again?

01:24:41.594 --> 01:24:42.949
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:24:43.429 --> 01:24:44.209
No, absolutely.

01:24:44.209 --> 01:24:48.169
This type of, of communication,
it's so interesting because what

01:24:48.169 --> 01:24:52.099
we're trying to do, I think with
all of our equine assisted practice

01:24:52.099 --> 01:24:53.539
is get communication, right?

01:24:53.569 --> 01:24:57.829
You're dealing with an a nonverbal kid
or you're trying to get communication.

01:24:57.829 --> 01:25:01.429
You're dealing with somebody who has
depression is a little shut down,

01:25:01.429 --> 01:25:03.679
or it's all about communication.

01:25:04.219 --> 01:25:06.439
Of course, marriage is, you know, yes.

01:25:06.469 --> 01:25:10.399
We know that when we stop communicating,
things get funky very fast.

01:25:10.729 --> 01:25:10.849
Yes.

01:25:10.879 --> 01:25:17.479
But fortunately I think in our
practice we do, well, we have a

01:25:17.479 --> 01:25:20.089
practice of trying to communicate.

01:25:20.089 --> 01:25:23.209
So perhaps it comes a little
more naturally to us to say

01:25:23.609 --> 01:25:24.959
maybe we don't want to be here.

01:25:24.989 --> 01:25:25.559
Maybe.

01:25:26.249 --> 01:25:29.819
We have some tools to get
out of here let's use them.

01:25:30.209 --> 01:25:35.009
Do you guys help other couples with this?

01:25:35.549 --> 01:25:42.449
Do you advise the parents not just
in their parenting, but also in their

01:25:42.449 --> 01:25:44.429
communication within the marriage at all?

01:25:44.699 --> 01:25:46.439
Has this come into the practice?

01:25:47.979 --> 01:25:51.829
Monique: Not especially but
sometimes I have some kind of

01:25:51.829 --> 01:25:54.629
couples in my practice, yeah.

01:25:55.229 --> 01:25:56.429
Who has this problem.

01:25:56.729 --> 01:25:56.969
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:25:57.019 --> 01:25:59.699
Monique: So yeah, on that way it is.

01:26:00.269 --> 01:26:06.854
And the only thing I have done
two years ago was it maybe, yeah,

01:26:07.289 --> 01:26:08.879
Husband: she had, she had a, a lecture

01:26:09.269 --> 01:26:09.899
Monique: Yeah.

01:26:10.229 --> 01:26:11.699
Husband: For a number of people.

01:26:11.799 --> 01:26:12.279
Yeah.

01:26:12.279 --> 01:26:12.289
Yeah.

01:26:12.289 --> 01:26:12.584
Another

01:26:12.614 --> 01:26:13.854
Monique: parents yeah.

01:26:13.974 --> 01:26:14.839
A lot of different

01:26:14.869 --> 01:26:17.029
Husband: people who are
connected with autism.

01:26:17.029 --> 01:26:23.164
So parents with autism, but also people
from the, the community, from government

01:26:23.224 --> 01:26:25.264
social workers, et cetera like that.

01:26:25.714 --> 01:26:31.354
And there she she gave a lecture
about her, about our experience.

01:26:31.554 --> 01:26:31.834
Yeah.

01:26:32.199 --> 01:26:34.709
How to deal with yeah.

01:26:34.709 --> 01:26:36.004
A child who has autism.

01:26:36.794 --> 01:26:40.574
Monique: What to do with, with when
it is eastern and you have all the

01:26:40.574 --> 01:26:45.674
family on your table standing nice
and, and your, your son or daughter

01:26:45.674 --> 01:26:47.804
is, is going to the kitchen alone.

01:26:47.924 --> 01:26:50.789
No, you have to come over here because No.

01:26:51.524 --> 01:26:53.114
Just let them, no,

01:26:53.529 --> 01:26:53.749
Rupert Isaacson: let

01:26:54.764 --> 01:26:55.214
Monique: them thing.

01:26:55.214 --> 01:26:59.414
Well, many eyes opened over
there and they told me, really?

01:27:01.089 --> 01:27:02.504
Are you doing that this way?

01:27:03.644 --> 01:27:03.704
Yeah.

01:27:03.704 --> 01:27:04.874
How nice.

01:27:04.994 --> 01:27:08.144
And I really thought, huh, you don't know.

01:27:08.384 --> 01:27:09.944
It's, it's, it's, yeah, it

01:27:09.944 --> 01:27:11.024
Rupert Isaacson: is interesting, isn't it?

01:27:11.324 --> 01:27:11.624
Yeah.

01:27:11.744 --> 01:27:17.684
I, I think one of the things which is
the key here, whether we're talking

01:27:17.684 --> 01:27:21.284
about with the child or whether
we're talking about with each other,

01:27:21.974 --> 01:27:24.824
it's about letting off the pressure.

01:27:25.484 --> 01:27:25.634
Yes.

01:27:25.634 --> 01:27:25.694
Yeah.

01:27:26.024 --> 01:27:31.754
I, I think that so often there
is this tendency to think.

01:27:33.059 --> 01:27:37.619
We are in a crisis situation here or
something we just put more pressure on.

01:27:37.914 --> 01:27:38.204
Yeah.

01:27:38.209 --> 01:27:38.249
Yeah.

01:27:38.249 --> 01:27:42.959
And whether we do this, I do this
to my wife, or I do this to my kid,

01:27:42.959 --> 01:27:47.789
or my kid does it to me or, and
it's often at that, and I think this

01:27:47.789 --> 01:27:49.229
is where horses are really good.

01:27:49.799 --> 01:27:50.099
Yeah.

01:27:50.144 --> 01:27:56.879
We know that when things get challenging
with horses, if you put more pressure

01:27:56.879 --> 01:27:59.459
on in that moment, you could die.

01:27:59.534 --> 01:27:59.824
Yeah.

01:27:59.824 --> 01:28:00.584
Like you really could.

01:28:00.734 --> 01:28:01.024
Yeah.

01:28:01.164 --> 01:28:04.349
You've gotta be very
angry like that, you know?

01:28:04.709 --> 01:28:09.149
So why don't we apply the same
logic to our human situations?

01:28:09.359 --> 01:28:12.179
And it's so interesting that whenever
we do, whenever we say, you know,

01:28:12.179 --> 01:28:18.029
just let him go to the kitchen and let
the Easter unfold for everybody else,

01:28:18.029 --> 01:28:24.539
and we will work on being able to be
together at table over five years.

01:28:24.539 --> 01:28:25.229
It's fine.

01:28:25.709 --> 01:28:27.569
Suddenly you feel that sense of, oh.

01:28:28.139 --> 01:28:30.719
Like a relief or, yeah, in a marriage.

01:28:30.749 --> 01:28:33.749
Oh, you mean I don't have to fix
all your problems and you don't

01:28:33.749 --> 01:28:34.829
have to fix all my problems.

01:28:35.309 --> 01:28:35.639
Whew.

01:28:36.869 --> 01:28:38.644
Thank God I can't.

01:28:38.649 --> 01:28:39.569
I know I can't.

01:28:40.319 --> 01:28:45.039
Here is something which I think you know,
we're approaching now towards, you know,

01:28:45.099 --> 01:28:50.379
the hour and a half, two hour mark and,
you know, we can pick this conversation

01:28:50.379 --> 01:28:56.409
up again later, but something I'm seeing
more and more, I think with the parents

01:28:56.619 --> 01:29:04.719
that I work with who are more than 10
years into this adventure, that what

01:29:04.719 --> 01:29:13.209
is not addressed is the cumulative
trauma that special needs parents go

01:29:13.209 --> 01:29:16.369
through in the course of their lives.

01:29:16.969 --> 01:29:21.979
And that there is never
any time to address this.

01:29:22.429 --> 01:29:25.129
And I'm not saying that
we can create this time.

01:29:26.089 --> 01:29:27.349
Because life is life.

01:29:27.829 --> 01:29:28.069
Yeah.

01:29:28.099 --> 01:29:35.089
But I think it would be useful to begin
to put together some sort of methodology

01:29:35.479 --> 01:29:42.059
for looking at this, acknowledging
this saying, well, what do we do?

01:29:42.689 --> 01:29:50.849
Given that this is not an ideal situation
when people need 30, 40 years of 50

01:29:50.849 --> 01:29:55.439
years of energy to keep this going.

01:29:55.889 --> 01:29:59.429
And, you know, you're, you're a
financial advisor, so, you know, so

01:30:00.329 --> 01:30:05.129
I know from this financial side too,
with special needs, you really have to

01:30:05.129 --> 01:30:07.169
think, okay, what happens after I die?

01:30:07.799 --> 01:30:08.819
You know, and.

01:30:10.139 --> 01:30:13.919
Not j There's the, the financial side,
and then there's also the family side.

01:30:14.159 --> 01:30:19.259
Will the family come together
around my child, or will my child

01:30:19.259 --> 01:30:21.449
be somewhat alone after I die?

01:30:21.899 --> 01:30:22.019
Yeah.

01:30:22.559 --> 01:30:23.539
Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

01:30:23.539 --> 01:30:25.649
These worries that we keep us up at night.

01:30:26.039 --> 01:30:36.479
Plus just the cumulative, the accumulated
exhaustion and worry and yeah.

01:30:36.479 --> 01:30:37.289
Flat out trauma.

01:30:37.439 --> 01:30:37.499
Yeah.

01:30:37.599 --> 01:30:41.469
So this business of being a
special needs parent and a special

01:30:41.469 --> 01:30:45.929
needs couple obviously we've seen
that it can split people apart

01:30:45.989 --> 01:30:48.689
or it can weld people together.

01:30:49.019 --> 01:30:54.879
Do you see your practice evolving over the
next few years towards helping couples?

01:30:55.419 --> 01:30:56.679
Monique: Yeah, of course.

01:30:56.739 --> 01:30:57.364
Yeah, for sure.

01:30:58.764 --> 01:30:59.844
I can bring a lot.

01:31:00.174 --> 01:31:05.394
I have a lot of experience and I
know the way you have to go through

01:31:05.394 --> 01:31:07.644
it, it's not always easy, but

01:31:08.034 --> 01:31:08.454
Rupert Isaacson: never is.

01:31:09.324 --> 01:31:10.224
Monique: Never is.

01:31:10.224 --> 01:31:11.184
It never is.

01:31:11.184 --> 01:31:18.834
But but also there when you listen to
each other that it's gonna be okay.

01:31:19.434 --> 01:31:24.474
You, you have to know it's always with
the, with the best ways you are doing it.

01:31:26.364 --> 01:31:27.984
Rupert Isaacson: That everyone
is actually trying their best.

01:31:28.374 --> 01:31:28.794
Monique: Yeah.

01:31:28.794 --> 01:31:33.924
It's not, it's not because you don't like
your partner or No, it's just because

01:31:34.104 --> 01:31:38.604
probably you love your husband or your
wife and you want the best for it,

01:31:38.604 --> 01:31:44.634
but that's sometimes it, it's, it, it
struggles it be because you, you want,

01:31:44.634 --> 01:31:46.109
well, I think, I think too with stress,

01:31:46.404 --> 01:31:48.114
Rupert Isaacson: the
stress hormone, cortisol.

01:31:48.654 --> 01:31:51.204
It makes us not rational, right?

01:31:51.204 --> 01:31:56.484
So we know this, when, when cortisol gets
going in the brain, the stress hormone,

01:31:56.964 --> 01:31:59.214
we become aggressive, we become defensive.

01:31:59.214 --> 01:31:59.664
We,

01:31:59.874 --> 01:32:00.564
Monique: yeah,

01:32:00.714 --> 01:32:02.604
Rupert Isaacson: we become
three years old again.

01:32:03.064 --> 01:32:07.799
And if we are in situations where
this is happening constantly, then

01:32:07.919 --> 01:32:09.454
we're constantly three years old.

01:32:09.904 --> 01:32:12.574
And this is not helpful.

01:32:12.784 --> 01:32:13.919
Monique: No, no.

01:32:15.304 --> 01:32:19.774
Rupert Isaacson: So I would be very
interested in the next, I, I think

01:32:19.774 --> 01:32:22.444
this is where it has to go in our work.

01:32:22.954 --> 01:32:29.044
I think most of us have been concentrating
for the last 20 years or so on the

01:32:29.044 --> 01:32:35.434
child perhaps, or, or the individual
with the condition, perhaps the family

01:32:35.434 --> 01:32:38.584
as well, but not really the couple.

01:32:39.139 --> 01:32:42.799
Not really the primary
engine that keeps Yeah.

01:32:43.309 --> 01:32:44.299
The whole thing going.

01:32:44.299 --> 01:32:44.359
Yeah.

01:32:44.739 --> 01:32:48.519
And I'm realizing more and more that
this is where we have to collaborate.

01:32:48.579 --> 01:32:53.229
You know, all of us who have been,
I want to throw this out there

01:32:53.229 --> 01:32:54.369
for the listeners and the viewers.

01:32:54.369 --> 01:33:00.344
If you've been in this journey for more
than 10 years, you have a lot to share.

01:33:00.969 --> 01:33:06.489
And do we all need to get together
now and create a practice that does

01:33:06.489 --> 01:33:09.579
address the exhaustion, the trauma, the,

01:33:12.279 --> 01:33:14.589
the deep unhappiness and sadness

01:33:14.649 --> 01:33:15.249
Monique: Exactly.

01:33:15.339 --> 01:33:15.729
That,

01:33:15.909 --> 01:33:21.219
Rupert Isaacson: you know, can grow over
time despite, yes, it's beautiful and

01:33:21.219 --> 01:33:25.419
yes, we can see success, but it, you know,

01:33:27.639 --> 01:33:30.789
sometimes having to, to speak
so positively all the time

01:33:31.239 --> 01:33:32.859
can also take its toll that.

01:33:33.519 --> 01:33:35.949
You know, what do we do with the sadness?

01:33:35.949 --> 01:33:37.959
You know, what, what, what do you feel?

01:33:38.019 --> 01:33:39.819
You two, what, what, what do we do?

01:33:40.564 --> 01:33:40.854
Monique: Yeah.

01:33:42.039 --> 01:33:42.489
Yeah.

01:33:42.489 --> 01:33:42.579
Well,

01:33:44.439 --> 01:33:49.329
Husband: the point is when your child
is born, you have several expectations

01:33:49.869 --> 01:33:55.209
about they go to university, they,
they make friends, they, they get

01:33:55.209 --> 01:33:57.709
married, get children et cetera.

01:33:57.709 --> 01:34:01.189
All that kind of life events Yeah.

01:34:01.399 --> 01:34:02.959
That you are expecting.

01:34:03.019 --> 01:34:09.064
And when they are diagnosed autism
a lot of these expectations you have

01:34:09.064 --> 01:34:15.659
to change because, you know, some
won't get married or get children or

01:34:15.714 --> 01:34:19.854
graduate at, at, at high school or
university or something like that.

01:34:19.914 --> 01:34:20.719
Monique: It's a kind of grief.

01:34:21.204 --> 01:34:23.064
Husband: It's, it's a
kind of breed indeed.

01:34:23.154 --> 01:34:31.544
And, and, you have to find a way to see
the, the positive things of, of Stan,

01:34:31.544 --> 01:34:39.074
you, you, you, you are much easier,
happy about the little steps he makes

01:34:39.124 --> 01:34:45.304
in comparing with the other children
who does graduate or do the things

01:34:45.404 --> 01:34:48.579
do the yeah, do the things are yeah.

01:34:48.579 --> 01:34:50.079
Similar with their age.

01:34:51.279 --> 01:34:51.879
You know what I mean?

01:34:52.179 --> 01:34:52.779
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, I do.

01:34:52.779 --> 01:34:53.139
I do.

01:34:53.139 --> 01:34:55.389
I'm just thinking while you
were talking about Rowan.

01:34:55.449 --> 01:35:00.069
And so although Rowan is, you
know, he's very independent.

01:35:00.069 --> 01:35:04.089
He has his own house and car
now he travels independently.

01:35:04.089 --> 01:35:06.069
He has a couple of different jobs.

01:35:06.549 --> 01:35:06.669
Yeah.

01:35:06.699 --> 01:35:09.729
And in some ways though, he's
also still completely autistic.

01:35:09.729 --> 01:35:11.199
It, it's in parallel.

01:35:11.199 --> 01:35:11.799
This, this yeah.

01:35:12.009 --> 01:35:15.879
Extreme functionality with
this extreme, you know, autism.

01:35:15.879 --> 01:35:17.439
But what, what, what I really.

01:35:18.219 --> 01:35:23.259
Have come to see is that he
has this role as a peacemaker.

01:35:23.789 --> 01:35:25.199
He resolves conflict.

01:35:26.179 --> 01:35:27.709
He does it within my family.

01:35:29.089 --> 01:35:34.339
When we are all pissed off with each
other Rowan only has to enter the

01:35:34.339 --> 01:35:39.499
conversation and suddenly we are
all a little bit back on our game.

01:35:40.339 --> 01:35:43.459
It makes us focus on what's important.

01:35:43.729 --> 01:35:49.819
And then I find too that when he is
physically present, people behave better.

01:35:50.569 --> 01:35:53.269
People are, and I bet it's
the same with Stan, right?

01:35:53.594 --> 01:35:54.094
That's right.

01:35:54.094 --> 01:35:54.294
Yeah.

01:35:54.294 --> 01:35:54.409
That's, yeah.

01:35:54.469 --> 01:35:54.889
Yeah.

01:35:56.359 --> 01:35:59.869
You, you were talking about like when
he's out with the dog in the neighborhood

01:36:00.589 --> 01:36:03.139
and everyone is, oh, they're, look,
now they're looking out for Stan.

01:36:03.139 --> 01:36:06.709
And if they, they either see the dog and
if they see the dog, they know he's there.

01:36:06.709 --> 01:36:08.929
Or if they see he's there,
they know the dog is there.

01:36:09.379 --> 01:36:11.299
The, this is a cohesive.

01:36:12.739 --> 01:36:14.569
Thing for the, for the community.

01:36:14.689 --> 01:36:22.219
And so when you're talking about adjusting
expectations, I think what's often not

01:36:22.219 --> 01:36:26.929
presented is there are actually some
really high and good expectations.

01:36:27.349 --> 01:36:32.269
Like, for example, are children taking
on these conflict resolving roles?

01:36:32.304 --> 01:36:32.594
Yeah.

01:36:32.869 --> 01:36:33.139
Yeah.

01:36:33.139 --> 01:36:35.119
Which are very, very valuable.

01:36:35.329 --> 01:36:36.409
Yeah.

01:36:36.589 --> 01:36:37.249
Do you know what I mean?

01:36:37.249 --> 01:36:41.419
But this is not something which
is presented to us culturally.

01:36:42.199 --> 01:36:51.379
So maybe people like you, people like me,
need to be going out there with this Yeah.

01:36:51.379 --> 01:36:55.249
And say, okay, you've resolved, you
know, you're abandoning, there's a

01:36:55.249 --> 01:37:01.159
grief over this set of expectations and
dreams, but here are the other ones.

01:37:01.399 --> 01:37:01.999
Yes.

01:37:02.089 --> 01:37:02.689
Monique: Yes.

01:37:02.839 --> 01:37:09.649
Sometimes I, I, I tell someone
else when everyone was like, stump.

01:37:10.039 --> 01:37:11.599
It would be a beautiful world

01:37:11.809 --> 01:37:12.409
Rupert Isaacson: would be 'cause he

01:37:12.409 --> 01:37:17.089
Monique: learns us to enjoy the
little things, the times he is

01:37:17.089 --> 01:37:20.119
walking with his frock on his finger.

01:37:20.209 --> 01:37:21.769
Look, I have a frock.

01:37:22.189 --> 01:37:24.769
Well, I'm glad I'm, I'm laughing.

01:37:25.069 --> 01:37:30.769
I'm, I'm, yeah, it's lovely because
I don't even catch a frog and

01:37:30.769 --> 01:37:32.504
he is just walking with a frog

01:37:33.379 --> 01:37:36.229
Rupert Isaacson: and so something
is going on in the consciousness

01:37:36.229 --> 01:37:38.059
field between him and the frog.

01:37:38.059 --> 01:37:38.119
Yeah.

01:37:38.299 --> 01:37:41.899
Something is going and, and that
reminds us, ah, there are these

01:37:41.899 --> 01:37:43.459
different fields of consciousness.

01:37:43.999 --> 01:37:44.269
Yeah.

01:37:44.269 --> 01:37:47.029
And I can't walk around
with a frog on my finger.

01:37:47.209 --> 01:37:49.159
You can't walk around
with a frog on your feet.

01:37:49.159 --> 01:37:49.219
No.

01:37:50.239 --> 01:37:50.359
No.

01:37:50.359 --> 01:37:50.689
He can.

01:37:51.319 --> 01:37:51.769
Yeah.

01:37:52.069 --> 01:37:53.089
What else can he do?

01:37:53.089 --> 01:37:56.449
He can resolve conflict by
walking through the community.

01:37:57.319 --> 01:37:57.709
Monique: Yeah.

01:37:57.889 --> 01:38:00.679
Rupert Isaacson: Perhaps the person
who sees him has just had a big

01:38:00.679 --> 01:38:05.989
argument with their wife or kid,
and then they see Stan and the dog

01:38:05.989 --> 01:38:07.129
come through and they're like, whew.

01:38:08.449 --> 01:38:09.469
Yeah.

01:38:09.469 --> 01:38:10.669
I bet you that's going on.

01:38:11.299 --> 01:38:11.689
Monique: Yeah.

01:38:11.779 --> 01:38:12.079
Yeah,

01:38:12.679 --> 01:38:13.039
Husband: yeah.

01:38:13.729 --> 01:38:20.349
That's now because Stu has no
expectations to anyone, to no one at all.

01:38:20.829 --> 01:38:21.564
Monique: I just want to tell.

01:38:24.354 --> 01:38:24.644
Husband: Okay.

01:38:25.704 --> 01:38:28.599
And, and we always had expectation.

01:38:28.599 --> 01:38:32.989
We always already imagination,
imagination things.

01:38:33.229 --> 01:38:36.289
How, what's going to ha what's
going to happen, how it should

01:38:36.289 --> 01:38:37.639
be perhaps would be happen.

01:38:37.644 --> 01:38:37.854
Yeah.

01:38:37.939 --> 01:38:39.109
How it should be.

01:38:39.109 --> 01:38:45.029
And, and Stu doesn't do that
because not because, so he

01:38:45.029 --> 01:38:47.429
is, he's living the life yeah.

01:38:47.429 --> 01:38:48.449
Right at the moment.

01:38:48.449 --> 01:38:49.164
Right at the moment.

01:38:49.354 --> 01:38:53.069
Monique: Just moment by moment
and not what it's about next week.

01:38:53.069 --> 01:38:53.219
No.

01:38:53.219 --> 01:38:54.659
This just like horses.

01:38:54.749 --> 01:38:55.019
Husband: Yes.

01:38:55.409 --> 01:38:58.049
Now this, this is it, and not
what may this moment happen.

01:38:58.319 --> 01:38:58.769
Monique: Yeah.

01:38:58.769 --> 01:38:59.819
Rupert Isaacson: Unconditional love.

01:38:59.999 --> 01:39:00.239
Monique: Yeah.

01:39:00.299 --> 01:39:00.869
Yes.

01:39:00.869 --> 01:39:02.099
Unconditional love.

01:39:02.339 --> 01:39:02.969
Yeah.

01:39:03.479 --> 01:39:04.019
Yeah.

01:39:05.549 --> 01:39:08.939
Rupert Isaacson: Well, that's a
great, that's a great note to end on.

01:39:09.249 --> 01:39:11.559
I look forward to continuing
this conversation.

01:39:11.559 --> 01:39:14.319
You know, I, I think mon
you, you and I should try to

01:39:14.319 --> 01:39:15.809
collaborate a little bit nice.

01:39:15.809 --> 01:39:18.599
And obviously there's a fair horse
boy community in the Netherlands.

01:39:18.989 --> 01:39:23.384
But particularly over this business of
the parent, the parental experience,

01:39:23.639 --> 01:39:28.169
and perhaps both of you, you know,
we could continue this conversation.

01:39:28.169 --> 01:39:31.889
I'd be, I, I, I think
it, it, it has to happen.

01:39:32.459 --> 01:39:33.804
Um mm-hmm.

01:39:34.049 --> 01:39:38.759
But thank you so much for coming on
the show and having this conversation.

01:39:38.759 --> 01:39:39.899
I really appreciate it.

01:39:40.409 --> 01:39:41.369
I know our listeners Thank you.

01:39:42.449 --> 01:39:43.229
We liked it last.

01:39:43.234 --> 01:39:43.464
Yeah.

01:39:43.464 --> 01:39:44.504
Monique: We're to very last.

01:39:44.504 --> 01:39:44.704
Yeah.

01:39:44.974 --> 01:39:46.184
Rupert Isaacson: Tell yes.

01:39:46.254 --> 01:39:46.544
Yeah.

01:39:47.204 --> 01:39:47.984
Spread the word.

01:39:47.984 --> 01:39:48.089
Spread the word.

01:39:49.409 --> 01:39:52.229
And, you know, next time I'm coming
through the Netherlands I'd love

01:39:52.229 --> 01:39:53.999
to come and, and check out ini.

01:39:54.269 --> 01:39:57.149
So I see for those people
who want to check out.

01:39:57.854 --> 01:39:58.934
Monique's work.

01:39:58.934 --> 01:40:03.284
It's in Compi nl, right?

01:40:03.339 --> 01:40:03.559
Yes.

01:40:03.569 --> 01:40:03.919
Right.

01:40:04.154 --> 01:40:07.959
And if you're an English speaker,
the Compi bit is spelled with a K.

01:40:07.959 --> 01:40:08.174
With a K?

01:40:08.954 --> 01:40:09.614
Monique: Yes.

01:40:09.614 --> 01:40:09.854
In

01:40:09.854 --> 01:40:11.744
Rupert Isaacson: Compi, IE.

01:40:12.314 --> 01:40:13.484
So it's like compassion.

01:40:13.484 --> 01:40:14.624
But with a K, not a C.

01:40:14.624 --> 01:40:19.154
And IE, not I, in Compi
nl for the Netherlands.

01:40:19.364 --> 01:40:19.604
Monique: Yes.

01:40:20.444 --> 01:40:21.434
Rupert Isaacson: Check out her stuff.

01:40:22.454 --> 01:40:22.694
Monique: Thank you.

01:40:23.234 --> 01:40:23.444
Rupert Isaacson: We will.

01:40:23.444 --> 01:40:23.894
All right.

01:40:24.899 --> 01:40:25.199
All right.

01:40:25.664 --> 01:40:26.354
Okay, my friends.

01:40:26.354 --> 01:40:27.194
Until the next time.

01:40:27.194 --> 01:40:28.064
Thank you again

01:40:28.334 --> 01:40:28.844
Monique: next time.

01:40:29.024 --> 01:40:29.414
Thank you.

01:40:29.414 --> 01:40:29.894
See

01:40:29.894 --> 01:40:29.954
Rupert Isaacson: you.

01:40:29.959 --> 01:40:30.279
Bye-bye.

01:40:30.611 --> 01:40:33.731
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01:40:34.271 --> 01:40:39.171
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Long Ride Home and The Healing Land.

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